Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 ||Namah Shivaya|| Dear All Thanks, Kishore, for this very interesting thread about primary karaka of 6H. May I most humbly add: Sanjay Rath ji in his lecure in Delhi 2006 on remedial measures for grahas in bhava, clearly mention the karakas for all the bhavas. He says Mars is the signicator for 3H and Saturn for 6H and he outlines the remedial measures accordingly. He also mentions how the four karakas of 10H are looked at. He doesnt mention about Mars and 6H at all. This is also Visti's approach towards remedy. Nowhere have they advised using Mars as a karaka for remedial mesures of the 6th bhava. Does it not suggest that Saturn is the primary karaka of 6 th house? More learned perhaps can clarify further but Sanjay ji's teachings are the 'Guru updesha' we cant negate. Regards Sharat ----- dear all,there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Good work kishore ,please keep it up.Jim.kishore patnaik <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: dear all,there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik Thanks, Jyotish Learner Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Om namah shivaya Dear Kishore ji and Sharat ji, Iam also getting confused here. Please check out the article by Sri Sanjay Prabhakaran on Bhava Karakatva (page 34 in jan to mar jyotish digest). He says karaka for 6H as mars. Rgds Anand " Sharat " <gidoc 15 Apr 2007 08:28:49 To:<sohamsa > Re: Karaka for sixth house ||Namah Shivaya|| Dear All Thanks, Kishore, for this very interesting thread about primary karaka of 6H. May I most humbly add: Sanjay Rath ji in his lecure in Delhi 2006 on remedial measures for grahas in bhava, clearly mention the karakas for all the bhavas. He says Mars is the signicator for 3H and Saturn for 6H and he outlines the remedial measures accordingly. He also mentions how the four karakas of 10H are looked at. He doesnt mention about Mars and 6H at all. This is also Visti's approach towards remedy. Nowhere have they advised using Mars as a karaka for remedial mesures of the 6th bhava. Does it not suggest that Saturn is the primary karaka of 6 th house? More learned perhaps can clarify further but Sanjay ji's teachings are the 'Guru updesha' we cant negate. Regards Sharat ----- dear all, there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Anand, There are many karakas and significators, for each planet and house etc. However there are primary significators and secondary etc..depending on the purpose. so dont confuse your self, think of it carefully and you will understand. All the best Lakshmi -- In sohamsa , " Anand Ravi " <anandravi2004 wrote: > > Om namah shivaya > > Dear Kishore ji and Sharat ji, > > Iam also getting confused here. > > Please check out the article by Sri Sanjay Prabhakaran on Bhava Karakatva (page 34 in jan to mar jyotish digest). He says karaka for 6H as mars. > > Rgds > Anand > > > > " Sharat " <gidoc > 15 Apr 2007 08:28:49 > To:<sohamsa > > Re: Karaka for sixth house > > ||Namah Shivaya|| > > Dear All > > Thanks, Kishore, for this very interesting thread about primary karaka of 6H. > > May I most humbly add: > > Sanjay Rath ji in his lecure in Delhi 2006 on remedial measures for grahas in bhava, clearly mention the karakas for all the bhavas. He says Mars is the signicator for 3H and Saturn for 6H and he outlines the remedial measures accordingly. He also mentions how the four karakas of 10H are looked at. He doesnt mention about Mars and 6H at all. > This is also Visti's approach towards remedy. Nowhere have they advised using Mars as a karaka for remedial mesures of the 6th bhava. > Does it not suggest that Saturn is the primary karaka of 6 th house? > > More learned perhaps can clarify further but Sanjay ji's teachings are the 'Guru updesha' we cant negate. > > Regards > Sharat > > ----- > dear all, > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. > > > regards, > > kishore patnaik > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 hare rama krsna Dear Sharat, Thank You for giving the source, I couldnt remind it. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Sharat napisał(a): ||Namah Shivaya|| Dear All Thanks, Kishore, for this very interesting thread about primary karaka of 6H. May I most humbly add: Sanjay Rath ji in his lecure in Delhi 2006 on remedial measures for grahas in bhava, clearly mention the karakas for all the bhavas. He says Mars is the signicator for 3H and Saturn for 6H and he outlines the remedial measures accordingly. He also mentions how the four karakas of 10H are looked at. He doesnt mention about Mars and 6H at all. This is also Visti's approach towards remedy. Nowhere have they advised using Mars as a karaka for remedial mesures of the 6th bhava. Does it not suggest that Saturn is the primary karaka of 6 th house? More learned perhaps can clarify further but Sanjay ji's teachings are the 'Guru updesha' we cant negate. Regards Sharat ----- dear all, there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 dear all,there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Dear Kishore, Parashara does give karakatwa of 6th bhava to Mars. Other learned give both Saturn and Mars the karakatwa of the 6th bhava. This seems more logical, as Saturn is the servant in the planetary cabinet and to have enemies one needs to fight which is the domain of Mars. One must remember that each bhava is indicative of many areas of life and can actually have different karakas for different areas of life represented by that bhava if one thinks rationally and tries to understand what the sages wanted conveyed. For example 9th bhava represents both father and Guru and the karakas are Sun and Jupiter respectively for the two different areas represented by the 9th bhava, though Parashara only gives Jupiter as the karaka for the 9th Bhava. However if one cares to look at other karakas given by Parashara one is able to see that he does give karakatwa of father to Sun also. Parashara also gives karakatwa of maternal relatives to Mercury and they are also related to the 6th bhava. Thus there will be more than one karaka for a bhava and these will have to be understood from the area related to that bhava which is under consideration. This is my personal opinion and other may differ. Chandrashekhar. kishore patnaik wrote: dear all, there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste friends, Sarbani had given 2 quotes of Sanjay ji on the other list, in a bid to settle this controversy. I am reproducing then here for your reference(she has also highlighted some portions). Regards, - Shailesh Shri Brahmadaru Smarami In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of the Karakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue. Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others to clarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of the house and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from this paper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the same way he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn for the 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with reference to the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect of Saturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, all of which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in every aspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts. Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka for the 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house.Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhaps the confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripus which are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the Six Enemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These Six Enemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battling with constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt our senses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. "we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that we prosper in activities related to a house...every house has many significators and a wise man follows the path of the significators in all activities concerning the house..."The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show of strength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while the other activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path of sheer hard work...Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doing one's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerity in devotion...The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines the work – accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning – pay attention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives the intelligence for innovation, planning and execution – use it freely; Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds – strive with all heart and soul...In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expenses the frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings"._______________ Even in COVA, he discusses the multiple karakas of the 6th house, that is Mars, Saturn and Mercury. Both in the JD article and in COVA he is discussing multiple karakas for the bhavas. BUT there is also one primary karaka for each house. And that is where the debate is coming. Now in his writings, Sanjayji has nowhere mentioned that Saturn is the primary karaka. Parasara has clearly mentioned it is Mars. It makes sense to me as both the 3rd and 6th houses are houses of parakrama. And the notion of enemies and battling them, whether external or internal enemies like Shadripus, can be quite nicely explained by Mars. _________________ - Sharat sohamsa Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:58 PM Re: Karaka for sixth house ||Namah Shivaya|| Dear All Thanks, Kishore, for this very interesting thread about primary karaka of 6H. May I most humbly add: Sanjay Rath ji in his lecure in Delhi 2006 on remedial measures for grahas in bhava, clearly mention the karakas for all the bhavas. He says Mars is the signicator for 3H and Saturn for 6H and he outlines the remedial measures accordingly. He also mentions how the four karakas of 10H are looked at. He doesnt mention about Mars and 6H at all. This is also Visti's approach towards remedy. Nowhere have they advised using Mars as a karaka for remedial mesures of the 6th bhava. Does it not suggest that Saturn is the primary karaka of 6 th house? More learned perhaps can clarify further but Sanjay ji's teachings are the 'Guru updesha' we cant negate. Regards Sharat ----- dear all,there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Shailesh, You got me wrong. I was not trying to settle this controversy. I am in the same state as you and Rafal. In that, BPHS says Mars. Sanjayji has nowhere "written" about Shani being the primary karaka. But many hold that he has "said" it during conferences and group discussions. Thats why Rafal mentioned that we need to ask him to clarify his stand on this. Best Regards, Sarbani Sarkar Rath http://sarbani.com Shailesh C Chadha [scchadha] Monday, April 16, 2007 7:48 AMsohamsa Subject: Re: Karaka for sixth house || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste friends, Sarbani had given 2 quotes of Sanjay ji on the other list, in a bid to settle this controversy. I am reproducing then here for your reference(she has also highlighted some portions). Regards, - Shailesh Shri Brahmadaru Smarami In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of the Karakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue. Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others to clarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of the house and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from this paper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the same way he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn for the 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with reference to the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect of Saturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, all of which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in every aspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts. Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka for the 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house.Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhaps the confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripus which are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the Six Enemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These Six Enemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battling with constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt our senses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. "we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that we prosper in activities related to a house...every house has many significators and a wise man follows the path of the significators in all activities concerning the house..."The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show of strength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while the other activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path of sheer hard work...Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doing one's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerity in devotion...The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines the work – accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning – pay attention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives the intelligence for innovation, planning and execution – use it freely; Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds – strive with all heart and soul...In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expenses the frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings"._______________ Even in COVA, he discusses the multiple karakas of the 6th house, that is Mars, Saturn and Mercury. Both in the JD article and in COVA he is discussing multiple karakas for the bhavas. BUT there is also one primary karaka for each house. And that is where the debate is coming. Now in his writings, Sanjayji has nowhere mentioned that Saturn is the primary karaka. Parasara has clearly mentioned it is Mars. It makes sense to me as both the 3rd and 6th houses are houses of parakrama. And the notion of enemies and battling them, whether external or internal enemies like Shadripus, can be quite nicely explained by Mars. _________________ - Sharat sohamsa Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:58 PM Re: Karaka for sixth house ||Namah Shivaya|| Dear All Thanks, Kishore, for this very interesting thread about primary karaka of 6H. May I most humbly add: Sanjay Rath ji in his lecure in Delhi 2006 on remedial measures for grahas in bhava, clearly mention the karakas for all the bhavas. He says Mars is the signicator for 3H and Saturn for 6H and he outlines the remedial measures accordingly. He also mentions how the four karakas of 10H are looked at. He doesnt mention about Mars and 6H at all. This is also Visti's approach towards remedy. Nowhere have they advised using Mars as a karaka for remedial mesures of the 6th bhava. Does it not suggest that Saturn is the primary karaka of 6 th house? More learned perhaps can clarify further but Sanjay ji's teachings are the 'Guru updesha' we cant negate. Regards Sharat ----- dear all,there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Sarbani, Your point is taken and I will rephrase my statement. The quotes reproduced by you should, hopefully, clarify Sanjay ji's position. And, above all, we have the un-qualified quote from BPHS. For most jyotishas, BPHS is THE FINAL WORD. Regards, - Shailesh On 15 Apr 2007 22:44:53 -0700, Sarbani Sarkar Rath <sarbani wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Shailesh, You got me wrong. I was not trying to settle this controversy. I am in the same state as you and Rafal. In that, BPHS says Mars. Sanjayji has nowhere " written " about Shani being the primary karaka. But many hold that he has " said " it during conferences and group discussions. Thats why Rafal mentioned that we need to ask him to clarify his stand on this. Best Regards, Sarbani Sarkar Rath http://sarbani.com Shailesh C Chadha [scchadha@ gmail.com] Monday, April 16, 2007 7:48 AMsohamsa Re: Karaka for sixth house || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste friends, Sarbani had given 2 quotes of Sanjay ji on the other list, in a bid to settle this controversy. I am reproducing then here for your reference(she has also highlighted some portions). Regards, - Shailesh Shri Brahmadaru Smarami In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of the Karakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue. Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others to clarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of the house and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from this paper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the same way he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn for the 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with reference to the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect of Saturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, all of which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in every aspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts. Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka for the 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house. Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhaps the confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripus which are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the Six Enemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These Six Enemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battling with constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt our senses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. " we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that we prosper in activities related to a house...every house has many significators and a wise man follows the path of the significators in all activities concerning the house... " The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show of strength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while the other activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path of sheer hard work... Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doing one's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerity in devotion...The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines the work – accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning – pay attention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives the intelligence for innovation, planning and execution – use it freely; Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds – strive with all heart and soul... In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expenses the frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings " ._______________ Even in COVA, he discusses the multiple karakas of the 6th house, that is Mars, Saturn and Mercury. Both in the JD article and in COVA he is discussing multiple karakas for the bhavas. BUT there is also one primary karaka for each house. And that is where the debate is coming. Now in his writings, Sanjayji has nowhere mentioned that Saturn is the primary karaka. Parasara has clearly mentioned it is Mars. It makes sense to me as both the 3rd and 6th houses are houses of parakrama. And the notion of enemies and battling them, whether external or internal enemies like Shadripus, can be quite nicely explained by Mars. _________________ - Sharat sohamsa Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:58 PM Re: Karaka for sixth house ||Namah Shivaya|| Dear All Thanks, Kishore, for this very interesting thread about primary karaka of 6H. May I most humbly add: Sanjay Rath ji in his lecure in Delhi 2006 on remedial measures for grahas in bhava, clearly mention the karakas for all the bhavas. He says Mars is the signicator for 3H and Saturn for 6H and he outlines the remedial measures accordingly. He also mentions how the four karakas of 10H are looked at. He doesnt mention about Mars and 6H at all. This is also Visti's approach towards remedy. Nowhere have they advised using Mars as a karaka for remedial mesures of the 6th bhava. Does it not suggest that Saturn is the primary karaka of 6 th house? More learned perhaps can clarify further but Sanjay ji's teachings are the 'Guru updesha' we cant negate. Regards Sharat ----- dear all,there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478(O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Shailesh, We have to await a clarification on his position. Remember, what Rafal and Sharat are pointing out is that in papers presented in conferences he did say Saturn was the primary karaka; as well as in Serbia. So definitely a clarification is awaited from him. All I said was he had not said it in his writings. Best Regards, Sarbani Sarkar Rath http://sarbani.com Shailesh Chadha [scchadha] Monday, April 16, 2007 11:22 AMsohamsa Subject: Re: Karaka for sixth house || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Sarbani, Your point is taken and I will rephrase my statement. The quotes reproduced by you should, hopefully, clarify Sanjay ji's position. And, above all, we have the un-qualified quote from BPHS. For most jyotishas, BPHS is THE FINAL WORD. Regards, - Shailesh On 15 Apr 2007 22:44:53 -0700, Sarbani Sarkar Rath <sarbani (AT) (DOT) org> wrote: Shri Brahmadaru Smarami Dear Shailesh, You got me wrong. I was not trying to settle this controversy. I am in the same state as you and Rafal. In that, BPHS says Mars. Sanjayji has nowhere "written" about Shani being the primary karaka. But many hold that he has "said" it during conferences and group discussions. Thats why Rafal mentioned that we need to ask him to clarify his stand on this. Best Regards, Sarbani Sarkar Rath http://sarbani.com Shailesh C Chadha [scchadha@ gmail.com] Monday, April 16, 2007 7:48 AMsohamsa Re: Karaka for sixth house || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste friends, Sarbani had given 2 quotes of Sanjay ji on the other list, in a bid to settle this controversy. I am reproducing then here for your reference(she has also highlighted some portions). Regards, - Shailesh Shri Brahmadaru Smarami In his website, Sanjayji has an article called the Path of the Karakas, which was earlier published in JD, October 2003 issue. Relevant portions are given below in case it helps you and others to clarify. Please note he is talking of multiple karakas for each of the house and he is not talking of the primary karaka here. So from this paper one can assume that he is talking of Saturn and Mars in the same way he is a talking of Jupiter and Sun for the 9th house and Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and Saturn for the 10th house, Jupiter and Saturn for the 11th house and Moon and Mercury for the 4th house. Secondly, do keep in mind when we are talking of Saturn with reference to the 6th house, it is with a connotation of the 'serving' aspect of Saturn. Hence we see servants, pets, service from the 6th house, all of which are linked to Saturn while Mars shows the parakrama in every aspect like war, fighting spirit, litigations, battles, conflicts. Nevertheless Mars is mentioned by Parasara as the primary karaka for the 6th house as it is the bhava of parakrama along with the 3rd house. Now, from what I gather between your and Rafal's talk is that perhaps the confusion crept in because of the discussion on the Shadripus which are seen from the 6th house. Shadripu literally means the Six Enemies. Another name for the 6th house is Ripu Bhava. These Six Enemies are the internal enemies, which the human mind is battling with constantly. These six enemies are the vices which corrupt our senses and I think they can be explained by botb Mars and Saturn. "we are advised to follow the path of the käraka to ensure that we prosper in activities related to a house...every house has many significators and a wise man follows the path of the significators in all activities concerning the house... "The sixth house deals with enemies for which Mars advises a show of strength, merciless subjugation and destruction at all times while the other activity of service is signified by Saturn showing the path of sheer hard work... Sun signifying the ninth house demands obedience of the laws and doing one's duty while Jupiter advises faith to the preceptor and sincerity in devotion...The tenth house has four significators. The Sun (king) determines the work – accept it graciously; Mercury determines the learning – pay attention and learn everything there is to learn; Jupiter gives the intelligence for innovation, planning and execution – use it freely; Saturn gives the diligence to finish the task against all odds – strive with all heart and soul... In matters of gains follow the honest path of Jupiter and in expenses the frugality of Saturn for optimum growth in savings"._______________ Even in COVA, he discusses the multiple karakas of the 6th house, that is Mars, Saturn and Mercury. Both in the JD article and in COVA he is discussing multiple karakas for the bhavas. BUT there is also one primary karaka for each house. And that is where the debate is coming. Now in his writings, Sanjayji has nowhere mentioned that Saturn is the primary karaka. Parasara has clearly mentioned it is Mars. It makes sense to me as both the 3rd and 6th houses are houses of parakrama. And the notion of enemies and battling them, whether external or internal enemies like Shadripus, can be quite nicely explained by Mars. _________________ - Sharat sohamsa Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:58 PM Re: Karaka for sixth house ||Namah Shivaya|| Dear All Thanks, Kishore, for this very interesting thread about primary karaka of 6H. May I most humbly add: Sanjay Rath ji in his lecure in Delhi 2006 on remedial measures for grahas in bhava, clearly mention the karakas for all the bhavas. He says Mars is the signicator for 3H and Saturn for 6H and he outlines the remedial measures accordingly. He also mentions how the four karakas of 10H are looked at. He doesnt mention about Mars and 6H at all. This is also Visti's approach towards remedy. Nowhere have they advised using Mars as a karaka for remedial mesures of the 6th bhava. Does it not suggest that Saturn is the primary karaka of 6 th house? More learned perhaps can clarify further but Sanjay ji's teachings are the 'Guru updesha' we cant negate. Regards Sharat ----- dear all,there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478(O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 हरे राम कृष्ण॥ Dear Tarun, Namaskar I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail. Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in winning great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these weaknesses are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth house is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Madha and Matsyara. A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six rajasic and tamasic planets to these. To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths or wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword of prayer is the brianica or rosary and is a vital part of the persons progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house (prayer) and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and death/maraka (7th) from the sixth house of sin. The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main karaka for the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of sin. Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from others or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases, fights, etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems may arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or kaama (lust). But, they are all sins. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com Tarun wrote: Dear sir, Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. 6th house is the house of satya. because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is not always correct so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. if person has to fight in battle then mars if he needs to be courageous then sun if he needs mind to win the disputes so on... Please correct me where i went wrong. Regards Tarun , "~Tarun~" <tarun.virgo wrote: > > Dear sir, > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > 6th house is the house of satya. > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is not always correct > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > if person has to fight in battle then mars > if he needs to be courageous then sun > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > so on... > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong. > > Regards > > Tarun > > > - > kishore patnaik > vedic astrology ; ; Astro_Remedies ; ; lalkitab ; naastrology ; SJC- Africa ; ; sohamsa ; Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house > > > dear all, > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. > > > regards, > > kishore patnaik > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 hare rama krsna Dear Tarun, Or best we can wait for Sanjayji BPHS commentary;) Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 ~Tarun~ napisał(a):  Even i trust BPHs but just it creates doubt because sanksrit has lakhs of words and their meanings. and just to convert it in english's few words so I had said that.  Actually i meant that we must go through the sanksrit version instead of its english translation.  " Ripu " are those which want to take your life and want you to get dead...so it is related to 8th house in that form.  Regards Tarun  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 || Om Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah || Respected All, If I am not wrong though each word in this world can have many meanings and implications,but there will be a meaning which is well known to all. And I personally hope there are no words in Jyotish classicals are written for hiding the orginal message in secret form as these are not kavya's or drama's. It had been clearly written in a common man's language at the time of BPHS or any jyotish classical was written. I request you not to forget that even a lay man in Indian culture used to understand and talk in Sanskrit before Moghulai's and British Rule. Sanskrit Word Ripu primarily stands for the meaning Satru (i.e. Enemy). You can see its usage in many Sanskrit and Telugu Kavya's and most of the sansrit text's like Raghuvamsam etc., I would like to ask Visti ji, Rafal ji to forgive me for going against there comments. Though we can extract many things from a Bhava in various perspectives we will see it for a prime (intution)reason. The rest depends upon what we want to see in the horoscope or what our perception is?. And for my knowledge His Holiness Great Sage Parasara had written the bhavas in this context. See an excerpt from BPHS. 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma, Labh and Vyaya are in order the names of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by Lord Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the following verses). Sanskrit ARI means Enemy without any doubt. So Sage Parasara had mentioned the Karaka as Mars for Enemies to Sixth House. I request Mr. Tarun to keepin mind to use words in effective manner. We are not as knowledged as Sage Parasara to criticize his texts.And not to forget that Sage Parasara got this knowledge directly from Lord Brahma the CREATOR. If you can remind Mr. B.V.Raman words, " Those who know Astrology can only indicate in a way what will take place in future. Who else, except the Creator Brahma,can say with certainty what will definitely happen ? " I personally hope that we should not take our own meanings associated with the words to suffice our Self (Aham) and we are not supposed to talk the un-necessary things in this context when we are discussing about just Karaka's and 6th Bhava. It will be a great thing if one could give an example why Sani is Karaka for 6th House or Mars is Karaka for sixth house? In almost all jyothish texts though some have agreed and some others not, when coming to the enemies point of view all stand on a single boat that Mars is Karaka for Enemies. I would request the Honorable Gurus like Sanjay Rath or PVR or Partha who had learnt Jyothish from their childhood and who had deeply thought in this perspective would comment in this thread in-order to put the discussion to an end. I request you all to forgive me if I had hurt any of your thoughts , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> wrote: > > *hare rama krsna* > > Dear Tarun, > > Or best we can wait for Sanjayji BPHS commentary;) > > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > SJC Guru > www.rohinaa.com > (+48) 503 44 18 18 > > ~Tarun~ napisał(a): > > > >  > > > > Even i trust BPHs but just it creates doubt because sanksrit has lakhs > > of words and their meanings. and just to convert it in english's few > > words so I had said that. > > > > Actually i meant that we must go through the sanksrit version instead > > of its english translation. > > > > " Ripu " are those which want to take your life and want you to get > > dead...so it is related to 8th house in that form. > > > > Regards > > Tarun > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Thank you, Jimregards, Kishore patnaik On 15 Apr 2007 22:49:50 -0700, Jim <vedicastro_mind > wrote: Good work kishore ,please keep it up.Jim.kishore patnaik <kishorepatnaik09@ gmail.com> wrote: dear all,there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a word document and am enclosing it here. I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this topic in this group. Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have missed on any message in this thread. regards, kishore patnaik Thanks, Jyotish Learner Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, There are many structure of hierarchy in using pranama to get the jnana. For me the words of Guru or Param Guru has more weightage than *my interpretation of sastra* therefore I apply logic of Guru's words in reading the sastra's. Thats my methodology to get jnana and I consider this the most noble. There are others - all depending on the chart. If I've heard the Sanjayji saying "primary Karaka of the sixth bhava is Sani" then for me its final and You can call it dogmatism but *blind faith* in this issue can give more benefits than losses as the parampara is bona fide. I rather try to look on the sastra from the new perspective. I did in this way many times and I must admit I attained some success by this methodology. Excuse me bad tone, if any. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Rafal, I DO object to the tone of your mail. How does the question of FAITH come in an open and scholarly discussion, aimed at clarifying certain doubts?? And FAITH on whom?? You, or Visti, or the Rishis? I would chose the Rishis! Please understand that we are all trying to interpret what Rishis have said in the classics and arrive at some conclusion.. . Do you object to that? Now coming to your arguement that Shad-ripus are the real cause of enmity - so what? The question here is which house signifies Shad-ripus and what is the primary signification of 6th house? And, can we say that since desires caused by RAHU are the root-cause of rebirth, RAHU is the significator of Rasi chart?? I have quoted from classics - please study then and, if you are aware of any statements in the classic that contradict it, please let us also study them so that we can come to a logical and educated conclusion. Coming to upchaya houses, these houses show potential and strength - not weakness - and opportunity for personal growth. And who will lead to fructification of this potential - the weakness Saturn or the strength of Mars. Please do consider it carefully and dispassionately. . Regards,  - Shailesh On 17 Apr 2007 03:38:32 -0700, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh,    Yes..but the Shadripu is the real cause of all enmity. Eight bhava is still connected to sudden wrong things which are cause of past karma, while the sixth being the Upachaya shows weakness which are the foundation of our actions in this life, therefore sixth bhava is the maraka to mantra (fifth) and moksa (twelfth). This is also pretty elaborated in the lecture about the diseases.    But if still You dont have the faith in all this then best is to ask Sanjayji and that will be final. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa. com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti, You have partly answered the question your self. BPHS mentions 8th house for RIPU and your focus is SHAD-RIPU - provided GC Sharmas version is accurate(as you said); Just as you have mentioned to Tarun - it has to be decided after thorough comparison. So, lets leave that aside for the moment. I will twist your question slightly: is the sixth house confined ONLY to our internal weaknesses (saturn) and the various problems associated with it? Is it right to disregard all other significations of 6 th house and consider only shad-ripus? Please also consider the following - BPHS: Ch. 17. Effects of 6th House 2. Ulcers/Bruises. Should 6ths Lord be in 6th itself, or in Lagna, or 8th, there will be ulcers, or bruises on the body. The RÄÅ›i, becoming 6th House, will lead to the knowledge of the concerned limb. Ch. 19. Effects of 8th House 2. Short Life. Should 8ths Lord join Lagnas Lord, or a malefic and be in 8th itself, the native will be short lived. Ch. 24. Effects of the House Lords 1.Effects of Lagnas Lord in Various Houses If Lagnas Lord is in 6th House and related to a malefic the native will be devoid of physical happiness and will be troubled by enemies, if there is no benefic Aspect. If Lagnas Lord is in 8th House, the native will be an accomplished scholar, be sickly, thievish, be given to much anger, be a gambler and will join others wives 61. Effects of 6ths Lord in Various Houses If 6ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be sickly, famous, inimical to his own men, rich, honourable, adventurous and virtuous. 85. Effects of 8ths Lord in Various Houses If 8ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be devoid of physical felicity and will suffer from wounds. He will be hostile to gods and Brahmins. Satya Jataka The sixth house signifies diseases, troubles from enemies, worries, injuries, litigation, sorrows, maternal uncle, injuries, armies, mental worries and legal involvements. The eighth house signifies longevity, misfortunes, sins, debts, enmity, death, difficulties, impediments, grief and unhappiness resulting from sins committed in previous births, sudden and untimely death and enemies Mars: He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals, mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war, instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin, wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests, bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. Saturn: indicates evil nature, cunningness, impediments, wickedness, servants, mean acts, thieves, old dilapidated houses, bitter fruits, forests, fruits with thick skin, wild flowers, trees full of thorns, bamboos, palmyra trees, margosa trees and wild animals. Daivagyna Vallabha Ill health, bad state, enemies, servants, cruel deeds, heavy actions, witchcraft applied by enemies with an intention of killing enemies, doubts, wars, uncle, buffaloes, diseases, etc. are to be considered from the sixth house. Longevity and enmity, death, ruling powers, strife, quarrels, cleft, quarrels among relatives, hatred, places difficult to approach, fort, destruction of wife and enemies, crossing of rivers etc. are to be seen from the eighth house. In most of the above quotes, sins and similar weaknesses have been associated with 8 th house. Furthermore, Sixth house is part of Artha Trikona – would not a Rajasic planet be a better significator?  Regards,  - Shailesh On 17 Apr 2007 00:45:42 -0700, Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com > wrote: हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar I checked BPHS and found the translation in line with what you have said. However when analyzing the sanskrit something becomes very prevailent. --sixth house-- mÄtulÄntakaÅ›aá¹kÄnÄá¹ Å›atrÅ«á¹Å›caiva vraṇÄdikÄn| sapalnÄ«mÄtaraá¹ cÄpi á¹£aá¹£á¹habhÄvÄnnirÄ«ká¹£yet||7|| Here the word 'shatru' has been used to indicate the enemies which leaves no doubt that the reference is to enemies. --eighth house-- ÄyÅ« raṇa ripuḥ cÄpi durgaá¹ mï…—tadhanaá¹ tathÄ| gatyanukÄdikaá¹ sarvaá¹ paÅ›yedraá¹dhrÄdvicaká¹£aṇaḥ|| Here Sharma has translated 'ripu' as 'enemies' which is only PARTLY correct. Here are the possible options from Monier Williams:  mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c. As you can see this does not specifically indicate enemy, but rather anyone who can deceive you or USE your weaknesses. Further Sharma does comment that in the Bombay edition of BPHS this sloka doesn't mention enemies at all. Btw. most scripts accept the word 'ripu' as a well known indicator of the sixth house. Parasara has just further shown that this can also be seen in the eighth house which is fine. o Reg. Mars vs. Saturn for the sixth house karakatva o Satyacharya also mentions Saturn whilst Parasara mentions Mars. The question is do we accept that the sixth house shows our internal weaknesses (saturn) and because of these the various problems in life arise. Or do we accept that the sixth house shows our external enemies (Mars)? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chandra Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti,  Your explanation, of equating 6th house to shad-ripus is not in line with the jyotish principles.  Shad-ripus are six enemies - the enemies within. - or weaknesses  Weakness, and even enmity, is indicated by 8th bhava, not 6th.  As per BPHS: Indications of Ari Bhava. Maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step-mother etc. are to be estimated from Ari Bhava.  Indications of Randhr Bhava. Randhr Bhava indicates longevity, battle, enemies, forts, wealth of the dead and things, that have happened and are to happen (in the past and future births).  Therefore, you are correct is associating Saturn with Shad-ripus, and weaknesses, but do not assign the 6th bhava karakatwa to Saturn.  BPHS assigns it to Mars and we have no reason, or any logical explanation to go against it.  Regards,  - Shailesh @ . com, Visti Larsen <visti wrote: > > ??? ??? ?????? > > Dear Tarun, Namaskar > I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail. > > Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating > themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in winning > great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these weaknesses > are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the > battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth house > is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Madha > and Matsyara. > > A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six rajasic > and tamasic planets to these. > > To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths or > wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword of > prayer is the /brianica/ or rosary and is a vital part of the persons > progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house (prayer) > and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and death/maraka > (7th) from the sixth house of sin. > > The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main karaka for > the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of sin. > Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from others > or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases, fights, > etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems may > arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or kaama > (lust). But, they are all sins. > > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > email: visti <visti@ ... > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > < http://srigaruda.com> > > Tarun wrote: > > > > Dear sir, > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is > > not always correct > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > so on... > > > > Please correct me where i went wrong. > > > > Regards > > > > Tarun > > > > > > < %40. com>, "~Tarun~" tarun.virgo@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear sir, > > > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ....it is > > not always correct > > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > > > so on... > > > > > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Tarun > > > > > > > > > - > > > kishore patnaik > > > vedic astrology@ . com > > < vedic astrology%40g roups.com> ; > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > < % 40. com> ; > > Astro_Remedies@ . com > > < Astro_Remedies%40gro ups.com> ; > > @ . com < %40. com> ; > > lalkitab < lalkitab%40. com> ; > > naastrology < naastrology% 40. com> ; SJC- > > Africa (AT) (DOT) com < Africa%40. com> ; > > < %40. com> ; > > sohamsa@ .com < sohamsa% 40. com> ; > > Vedic Astrology- Hyderabad > > < Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad% 40. com> > > > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house > > > > > > > > > dear all, > > > > > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha > > mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, > > for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a > > word document and am enclosing it here. > > > > > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this > > topic in this group. > > > > > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have > > missed on any message in this thread. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > >  -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®       (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®       (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 Respected Gurus, In order to strenghten my comments on Mars as Karaka for VI House, An Excerpt from BPHS 7th Chapter. 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the names of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by Lord Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the following verses). Excerpt from Phaladeepika Ch1-13. — The sixth house deals with debts, arms, thieves, wounds, diseases, enemies, paternal relations, battle, wicked acts, sins, fear and humilialtion. Ch2-3. All about one's strength (physical and mental), products produced from the earth, qualities of the brothers and sisters, cruelty, battle, courage, antagonism, the fire of the kitchen, gold, kinsmen, weapons, thieves, enemies, enthusiasm, sexual intercourse with another man's wife, falsehood, prowess, high thinking, sin, wounds, and acquisition of the position of a commander-in-chief should be ascertained from Mars. In other words Mars is the signiflcator of these matters. Excerpt from Brighu Sutras: Sixth House Sickness, diseases, nursing, food, service, employees, subordinates or servants, debts, cattle, tenants, enemies, maternal uncle, miserliness, intense anguish, litigation etc. From Brihat Jataka of varaha mihira Stanza 15: The twelve houses from lagna have been given the following names: (1) Thanu, (2) Kutumba,Putra, (6) Ari, (7) Patni, (8) Marana, (9) Shubha, (10) Aspada, (11) Aaya, and (12) Ripha. 10th and 11th houses from lagna, while the rest are Apachayas. Some say that these should Stanza 16:Kalya, Swa, Vikrama, Griha, Pratibha, Kshata, Chitthotha, Randhra, Guru, Mana, Bhava, second, third, etc., houses, respectively. The fourth and eighth from lagna are technically called goes under the name of Dyuna and the tenth is Agnya. From Satya Jataka from Chapter 2 3. The Mars: 1. Mars is reddish in colour. He has a youthful form. His body is lean and slender at the waist His head is square. His gaze is fierce and is directed upwards. His height is seven yojanas. 2. Temperament : By nature Mars is very cruel. He is fickle-minded and ferocious. He is rash in his actions but is extremely generous. His body is warm. 3. Guna: Mars represents rajasa guna. 4. Direction: Mars rules the southern direction. 5. Rays: Mars has five rays. 6. Age: His age is four years. 7. Grain: Dal and red grains. Other Significations: 8. He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals,mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war,instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin,wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests,bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. 9. Strength: He is strong during the night and during the dark lunar half. (See The Mars Significations mapped to enemies here) From Sankethanidhi 52-53 . Of several parts of the body of Kalapurusha, or time- personified, beginning with the head, the sixth is the navel and this is allotted to the sixth house. Sixth is also the house of animals. All good and bad about pet animals belonging to the native should beconsidered from this house. The other matters which concern 6th house are cruel actions, diseases, ears maternal uncle enemies, anxiety, suspicions. If the lord of 6th depowerful, owns a benefic sign and be associated with or aspected by benefics auspicious results may be expected from this house. The results would not be favourable if there be malefic influence on 6th house. From Horasara The twelve Bhavas from Lagn are, respectively, called as: Tanu, Dhan (Artha), Sahaj,Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati (Kalatra), Randhr(Nidhana), Dharm, Karm (Kriya), Labh(Aya) and Vyaya (Vigama). Notes: The meanings of the 12 synonyms given above are: body, wealth, co-born, relatives,children, enemies, wife, death, righteousness, or good work (one of the four ends of human existence), action, income and loss. By now you might have seen VI Bhava is mentioned as Ari Bhava and this Sanskrit Word means Enemy. (Reference http://sanskritdocuments.org/dict/dictall.txt or any Sanskrit Dictionary) Almost all Who wrote Books on this Great Jyotish Sastra agreed that the significator for Enemies is Mars. Hope this helps for future discussion. Regards, Upendra , " upendra_agni " <upendra.agni wrote: || Om Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah || Respected All, If I am not wrong though each word in this world can have many meanings and implications,but there will be a meaning which is well known to all. And I personally hope there are no words in Jyotish classicals are written for hiding the orginal message in secret form as these are not kavya's or drama's. It had been clearly written in a common man's language at the time of BPHS or any jyotish classical was written. I request you not to forget that even a lay man in Indian culture used to understand and talk in Sanskrit before Moghulai's and British Rule. Sanskrit Word Ripu primarily stands for the meaning Satru (i.e. Enemy). You can see its usage in many Sanskrit and Telugu Kavya's and most of the sansrit text's like Raghuvamsam etc., I would like to ask Visti ji, Rafal ji to forgive me for going against there comments. Though we can extract many things from a Bhava in various perspectives we will see it for a prime (intution)reason. The rest depends upon what we want to see in the horoscope or what our perception is?. And for my knowledge His Holiness Great Sage Parasara had written the bhavas in this context. See an excerpt from BPHS. 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the names of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by Lord Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the following verses). Sanskrit ARI means Enemy without any doubt. So Sage Parasara had mentioned the Karaka as Mars for Enemies to Sixth House. I request Mr. Tarun to keepin mind to use words in effective manner. We are not as knowledged as Sage Parasara to criticize his texts.And not to forget that Sage Parasara got this knowledge directly from Lord Brahma the CREATOR. If you can remind Mr. B.V.Raman words, " Those who know Astrology can only indicate in a way what will take place in future. Who else, except the Creator Brahma,can say with certainty what will definitely happen ? " I personally hope that we should not take our own meanings associated with the words to suffice our Self (Aham) and we are not supposed to talk the un-necessary things in this context when we are discussing about just Karaka's and 6th Bhava. It will be a great thing if one could give an example why Sani is Karaka for 6th House or Mars is Karaka for sixth house? In almost all jyothish texts though some have agreed and some others not, when coming to the enemies point of view all stand on a single boat that Mars is Karaka for Enemies. I would request the Honorable Gurus like Sanjay Rath or PVR or Partha who had learnt Jyothish from their childhood and who had deeply thought in this perspective would comment in this thread in-order to put the discussion to an end. I request you all to forgive me if I had hurt any of your thoughts , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> wrote: > > *hare rama krsna* > > Dear Tarun, > > Or best we can wait for Sanjayji BPHS commentary;) > > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > SJC Guru > www.rohinaa.com > (+48) 503 44 18 18 > > ~Tarun~ napisaÅ‚(a): > > > >  > > > > Even i trust BPHs but just it creates doubt because sanksrit has lakhs > > of words and their meanings. and just to convert it in english's few > > words so I had said that. > > > > Actually i meant that we must go through the sanksrit version instead > > of its english translation. > > > > " Ripu " are those which want to take your life and want you to get > > dead...so it is related to 8th house in that form. > > > > Regards > > Tarun > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 hare rama krsna Dear Upendra, I think this will not solve the problem, as we all agree that there are two karakas - Sani and Mars, the problem is which is primary Karaka? So the first quesion should be WHAT TYPE OF ARGUMENT WE ALL ACCEPT AS FINAL? Still the sastra will count the Sani and Mangal karakatwa reg sixth bhava and there is no reason to think that even if they are more attributed to Mangal then its primary. The number doesnt mean much, THE CORE MEAN MUCH. How to see the core of the house per Sastra? Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 upendra_agni napisał(a): Respected Gurus, In order to strenghten my comments on Mars as Karaka for VI House, An Excerpt from BPHS 7th Chapter. 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the names of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by Lord Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the following verses). Excerpt from Phaladeepika Ch1-13. — The sixth house deals with debts, arms, thieves, wounds, diseases, enemies, paternal relations, battle, wicked acts, sins, fear and humilialtion. Ch2-3. All about one's strength (physical and mental), products produced from the earth, qualities of the brothers and sisters, cruelty, battle, courage, antagonism, the fire of the kitchen, gold, kinsmen, weapons, thieves, enemies, enthusiasm, sexual intercourse with another man's wife, falsehood, prowess, high thinking, sin, wounds, and acquisition of the position of a commander-in- chief should be ascertained from Mars. In other words Mars is the signiflcator of these matters. Excerpt from Brighu Sutras: Sixth House Sickness, diseases, nursing, food, service, employees, subordinates or servants, debts, cattle, tenants, enemies, maternal uncle, miserliness, intense anguish, litigation etc. >From Brihat Jataka of varaha mihira Stanza 15: The twelve houses from lagna have been given the following names: (1) Thanu, (2) Kutumba,Putra, (6) Ari, (7) Patni, (8) Marana, (9) Shubha, (10) Aspada, (11) Aaya, and (12) Ripha. 10th and 11th houses from lagna, while the rest are Apachayas. Some say that these should Stanza 16:Kalya, Swa, Vikrama, Griha, Pratibha, Kshata, Chitthotha, Randhra, Guru, Mana, Bhava, second, third, etc., houses, respectively. The fourth and eighth from lagna are technically called goes under the name of Dyuna and the tenth is Agnya. >From Satya Jataka from Chapter 2 3. The Mars: 1. Mars is reddish in colour. He has a youthful form. His body is lean and slender at the waist His head is square. His gaze is fierce and is directed upwards. His height is seven yojanas. 2. Temperament : By nature Mars is very cruel. He is fickle-minded and ferocious. He is rash in his actions but is extremely generous. His body is warm. 3. Guna: Mars represents rajasa guna. 4. Direction: Mars rules the southern direction. 5. Rays: Mars has five rays. 6. Age: His age is four years. 7. Grain: Dal and red grains. Other Significations: 8. He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals,mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war,instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin,wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests,bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. 9. Strength: He is strong during the night and during the dark lunar half. (See The Mars Significations mapped to enemies here) >From Sankethanidhi 52-53 . Of several parts of the body of Kalapurusha, or time- personified, beginning with the head, the sixth is the navel and this is allotted to the sixth house. Sixth is also the house of animals. All good and bad about pet animals belonging to the native should beconsidered from this house. The other matters which concern 6th house are cruel actions, diseases, ears maternal uncle enemies, anxiety, suspicions. If the lord of 6th depowerful, owns a benefic sign and be associated with or aspected by benefics auspicious results may be expected from this house. The results would not be favourable if there be malefic influence on 6th house. >From Horasara The twelve Bhavas from Lagn are, respectively, called as: Tanu, Dhan (Artha), Sahaj,Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati (Kalatra), Randhr(Nidhana) , Dharm, Karm (Kriya), Labh(Aya) and Vyaya (Vigama). Notes: The meanings of the 12 synonyms given above are: body, wealth, co-born, relatives,children, enemies, wife, death, righteousness, or good work (one of the four ends of human existence), action, income and loss. By now you might have seen VI Bhava is mentioned as Ari Bhava and this Sanskrit Word means Enemy. (Reference http://sanskritdocu ments.org/ dict/dictall. txt or any Sanskrit Dictionary) Almost all Who wrote Books on this Great Jyotish Sastra agreed that the significator for Enemies is Mars. Hope this helps for future discussion. Regards, Upendra @ . com, "upendra_agni" <upendra.agni@ ...> wrote: || Om Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah || Respected All, If I am not wrong though each word in this world can have many meanings and implications, but there will be a meaning which is well known to all. And I personally hope there are no words in Jyotish classicals are written for hiding the orginal message in secret form as these are not kavya's or drama's. It had been clearly written in a common man's language at the time of BPHS or any jyotish classical was written. I request you not to forget that even a lay man in Indian culture used to understand and talk in Sanskrit before Moghulai's and British Rule. Sanskrit Word Ripu primarily stands for the meaning Satru (i.e. Enemy). You can see its usage in many Sanskrit and Telugu Kavya's and most of the sansrit text's like Raghuvamsam etc., I would like to ask Visti ji, Rafal ji to forgive me for going against there comments. Though we can extract many things from a Bhava in various perspectives we will see it for a prime (intution)reason. The rest depends upon what we want to see in the horoscope or what our perception is?. And for my knowledge His Holiness Great Sage Parasara had written the bhavas in this context. See an excerpt from BPHS. 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the names of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by Lord Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the following verses). Sanskrit ARI means Enemy without any doubt. So Sage Parasara had mentioned the Karaka as Mars for Enemies to Sixth House. I request Mr. Tarun to keepin mind to use words in effective manner. We are not as knowledged as Sage Parasara to criticize his texts.And not to forget that Sage Parasara got this knowledge directly from Lord Brahma the CREATOR. If you can remind Mr. B.V.Raman words, "Those who know Astrology can only indicate in a way what will take place in future. Who else, except the Creator Brahma,can say with certainty what will definitely happen ?" I personally hope that we should not take our own meanings associated with the words to suffice our Self (Aham) and we are not supposed to talk the un-necessary things in this context when we are discussing about just Karaka's and 6th Bhava. It will be a great thing if one could give an example why Sani is Karaka for 6th House or Mars is Karaka for sixth house? In almost all jyothish texts though some have agreed and some others not, when coming to the enemies point of view all stand on a single boat that Mars is Karaka for Enemies. I would request the Honorable Gurus like Sanjay Rath or PVR or Partha who had learnt Jyothish from their childhood and who had deeply thought in this perspective would comment in this thread in-order to put the discussion to an end. I request you all to forgive me if I had hurt any of your thoughts @ . com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ > wrote: > > *hare rama krsna* > > Dear Tarun, > > Or best we can wait for Sanjayji BPHS commentary;) > > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > SJC Guru > www.rohinaa. com > (+48) 503 44 18 18 > > ~Tarun~ napisaÅ‚(a): > > > >  > > > > Even i trust BPHs but just it creates doubt because sanksrit has lakhs > > of words and their meanings. and just to convert it in english's few > > words so I had said that. > > > > Actually i meant that we must go through the sanksrit version instead > > of its english translation. > > > > " Ripu " are those which want to take your life and want you to get > > dead...so it is related to 8th house in that form. > > > > Regards > > Tarun > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, I did mention the reason of my disappointment right in the beginning of my mail - "I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics". With Rafal, my objection was to his question - "do have no faith". Anyways, lets forget that - it is non-jyotish and disruptive. I make no claim that only my view point is right - I am ready to be unlearn my errors if you can give me right authority and logical explanation. And I am the first to acknowledge your deep study and vast knowledge of jyotish. So, let it be a long and wide discussion - I am sure I will learn a lot in the process. But, I request once again, do give due consideration to the quotes that appear to be contrary to your line of argument or your belief. And, starting with original Sanskrit text is a good idea - provided we can do a proper and competent translation. Now, when you mention <<this was the exact problem we had with BPHS where the word 'enemy' was written as 'shatru' in one sloka and 'ripu' in another>> I fail to see the point you are trying to make. RIPU and SHATRU are synonymous. Even the expanded meaning of RIPU, quoted by you from Monier Williams << mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c.>> points towards shad-ripus, although purists would object to the meanings attributed by Monier. Now consider this: the word SHATRU has been used for 6th house and RIPU for 8th house. And I agree with you that SHATRU/6th house would refer to ENEMY and RIPU/8th house to weaknesses etc. At another place (while quoting Harihara, reg. doshas) you have said << Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself>>. I feel you have got it wrong here. The common meaning of word AGANTUKA is GUEST. Hence, we have to understand that AGANTUKA DOSHAS as the doshas that come from outside, as compared with the NIJA DOSHAS that arise within. Please apply logic to this distinction between AGANTUKA DOSHA(6th house) and NIJA DOSHA (8th house) and what do you get - 6th house is for the enemy outside and the 8th house is for the enemy within. The above two arguments were presented by you and what do we learn from them - that 6th house refers to the enemies we encunter in the world and 8th house refers to the weaknesses we carry within fronm the previous birth. Then, please tell me, why are you insistent that shad-ripus be seen from the 6th house?? All your arguments prove that Shad-ripus be seen from the 8th house. Do I make sense?? Also, what is your understanding of the names assigned by the classics to the two houses - ARI for the 6th and RANDHRA for the 8th? Is it not suggestive of the functions/ signification of these two houses?? Regards, - Shailesh - Visti Larsen Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:02 AM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, NamaskarFor what reason are you sad? Was it Rafals somewhat blind-sided mail which made you so? I have never said you were wrong and instead clarified how the tradition reads the texts just as a friend shares his experiences with another. If i have not done this then i am at fault as this is how i have attempted to answer your mail. Thinking in these lines I believe you have misread my mail. Let me clarify my angle on your previous mail: You are qouting translations but no sanskrit and this was the exact problem we had with BPHS where the word 'enemy' was written as 'shatru' in one sloka and 'ripu' in another. If we cannot understand one sloka from Parasara then why begin analyzing the others? I'm sure you can understand my viewpoint to the discussion, as we share the same faith in Parasara. I have done exactly that and analyzed Parasara mainly and then added relevant pieces to the discussion where i saw it needed, just as that from Harihara who among all the seers is the only one who has really minced out the true nature of disease... regardless of whether we talk of Prasna jataka or not. If you are ready to analyze the sanskrit slokas of EACH of the classics we can do just that, just give me the word and we can begin, but expect it to be no small task. Prasna Marga is not only applicable in Prasna as many of the techniques portrayed are in fact used in natal charts. Many traditions will tell you this. I have not contradicted your statement reg. Mars being karaka for the sixth house. I cannot contradict Parasara. Instead i have clarified why in the Parampara it is taught that Saturn is the MAIN karaka for the sixth house. Also i have clarified the understanding reg. karakas and also the understanding of the ripus. Reading my mail do you feel unsatisfied with the explanation? If so do show me my flaws word for word. Or instead do you just not agree? Its ok to say you don't agree. Yes, i didn't answer your one point about rajasic planets and the arthatrikona, but i couldn't justify your comment as only Mercury and Venus are rajasic in nature... hence i didn't answer. Please clarify. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC GuruJaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) comFor consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com Shailesh C Chadha wrote:  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, Let me start by saying that I am saddened with your response. I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics. If that was to be so, then why do we study them? Is it only for the purpose of selectively quoting from them when it suits our line of argument and dismiss the contrary as irrelevant or unreliable? I am sorry but that is not the way any healthy discussion can be carried out - it just shows "assumed" intellectual arrogance and it is the first step towards decline in learning. And, to me the bottomline is that BPHS is the supreme jyotish fointain-head; every thing else is a commentary or a learning-aid. Unless logically proved other-wise, no dictum or parampara or Guru can over-ride BPHS teachings. I do not have to remind you that "Sri Jagannath Center (SJC) was established in India with the objective of teaching jyotish in the tradition of maharishis like Parasara and Jaimini." Incidentally, neither you, nor Rafal has offered any logical agrument to contradict what I have quoted. Prasna Marga is just that - applicable only on Prasna - so please do not use it for natal charts. Regards, - Shailesh - Visti Larsen Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:25 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, NamaskarRafal has a point which also answers this question. All bhavas have a root signification and that is why there is one MAIN karaka for each bhava. I.e. we are suffering from the six weaknesses because we could not keep our purity in the past life times. I.e. because we were too prone to anger in this life our anger will be tested. Because we were too attached to money in the past we will be put in situations where taking money can carry serious problems. The root cause is our lack of purity or excess of sin/ripu. Thus MANY MANY classics refer to the sixth bhava by the name 'ripu' and from it we get diseases, accidents, fights, enemies and all the other significations explained by Parasara. These are however the negative indications and are all indicated by Saturn as it is he who carries our dustha karma from many lifetimes and gives it to us in the form of dukha or sorrow. Now you qoute many classics, but mere statistics won't help us. Especially the word 'sin' can have different meanings in sanskrit. Prasna Marga is to my knowledge the only one who has attempted to make this clear differentiation for us when describing the nature of diseases. He states: rogästu dvividhä jïeyä nijägantuvidbhedetaùTranslation: Two types of diseases (roga) are to be known. Nija and ägantu are the two.Harihara later explains that nija is seen from the eighth and fifth houses, whilst agantu is seen from the sixth and badhaka houses. Nija dosha specifically refers to ones OWN karma/dosha. It refers to the bad karma we have caused unto others/the world.Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself For this reason it is taught in the tradition that the eighth lords RASI will show the place of the disease arising out of nija dosha, whereas the sixth lords BHAVA will show the diseases arising out of ones weaknesses/sin... I.e. the Rasis show the world/God whilst the bhavas are created by the individual. Deep rooted perspective indeed. I hope the above makes the paramparas perspective much clearer.Karaka literally means: 'kara' acting/doer; 'ka' does. I.e. the one who acts on behalf of another actor/doer. The closest English word is significator. By making the karaka of a house strong you will overcome the issues associated with that house. I.e. If the digestive fire is good (sun) then the health will be perfect (lagna). If you keep celibacy or purity (mars or some say mercury) then the weaknesses will go away (sixth house). But... this is very idealistic. Most people have the sins already and are acting on behalf of them, and really what they need to do is renounce them and be strong enough to carry them before projecting them on others. This act of carrying the sins is that of Saturn and by making Saturn auspicious the native will never see sorrow and easily cross this life. For this reason Saturn acts as a very strong contender for the karakatva of the sixth house, and this is how the tradition treats it. So recite Om Namo Bhagavate Akuparaaya| and be strong to carry your sins.I hope this clarifies everything. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC GuruJaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) comFor consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com Shailesh Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, You have partly answered the question your self. BPHS mentions 8th house for RIPU and your focus is SHAD-RIPU - provided GC Sharmas version is accurate(as you said); Just as you have mentioned to Tarun - it has to be decided after thorough comparison. So, lets leave that aside for the moment. I will twist your question slightly: is the sixth house confined ONLY to our internal weaknesses (saturn) and the various problems associated with it? Is it right to disregard all other significations of 6 th house and consider only shad-ripus? Please also consider the following - BPHS: Ch. 17. Effects of 6th House2. Ulcers/Bruises. Should 6ths Lord be in 6th itself, or in Lagna, or 8th, there will be ulcers, or bruises on the body. The RÄÅ›i, becoming 6th House, will lead to the knowledge of the concerned limb. Ch. 19. Effects of 8th House 2. Short Life. Should 8ths Lord join Lagnas Lord, or a malefic and be in 8th itself, the native will be short lived. Ch. 24. Effects of the House Lords 1.Effects of Lagnas Lord in Various Houses If Lagnas Lord is in 6th House and related to a malefic the native will be devoid of physical happiness and will be troubled by enemies, if there is no benefic Aspect. If Lagnas Lord is in 8th House, the native will be an accomplished scholar, be sickly, thievish, be given to much anger, be a gambler and will join others wives 61. Effects of 6ths Lord in Various Houses If 6ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be sickly, famous, inimical to his own men, rich, honourable, adventurous and virtuous. 85. Effects of 8ths Lord in Various Houses If 8ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be devoid of physical felicity and will suffer from wounds. He will be hostile to gods and Brahmins. Satya Jataka The sixth house signifies diseases, troubles from enemies, worries, injuries, litigation, sorrows, maternal uncle, injuries, armies, mental worries and legal involvements. The eighth house signifies longevity, misfortunes, sins, debts, enmity, death, difficulties, impediments, grief and unhappiness resulting from sins committed in previous births, sudden and untimely death and enemies Mars: He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals, mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war, instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin, wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests, bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. Saturn: indicates evil nature, cunningness, impediments, wickedness, servants, mean acts, thieves, old dilapidated houses, bitter fruits, forests, fruits with thick skin, wild flowers, trees full of thorns, bamboos, palmyra trees, margosa trees and wild animals. Daivagyna Vallabha Ill health, bad state, enemies, servants, cruel deeds, heavy actions, witchcraft applied by enemies with an intention of killing enemies, doubts, wars, uncle, buffaloes, diseases, etc. are to be considered from the sixth house. Longevity and enmity, death, ruling powers, strife, quarrels, cleft, quarrels among relatives, hatred, places difficult to approach, fort, destruction of wife and enemies, crossing of rivers etc. are to be seen from the eighth house. In most of the above quotes, sins and similar weaknesses have been associated with 8 th house. Furthermore, Sixth house is part of Artha Trikona – would not a Rajasic planet be a better significator? Regards, - Shailesh On 17 Apr 2007 00:45:42 -0700, Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> wrote: हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, NamaskarI checked BPHS and found the translation in line with what you have said. However when analyzing the sanskrit something becomes very prevailent.--sixth house--mÄtulÄntakaÅ›aá¹kÄnÄá¹ Å›atrÅ«á¹Å›caiva vraṇÄdikÄn| sapalnÄ«mÄtaraá¹ cÄpi á¹£aá¹£á¹habhÄvÄnnirÄ«ká¹£yet||7|| Here the word 'shatru' has been used to indicate the enemies which leaves no doubt that the reference is to enemies. --eighth house--ÄyÅ« raṇa ripuḥ cÄpi durgaá¹ mï…—tadhanaá¹ tathÄ|gatyanukÄdikaá¹ sarvaá¹ paÅ›yedraá¹dhrÄdvicaká¹£aṇaḥ|| Here Sharma has translated 'ripu' as 'enemies' which is only PARTLY correct. Here are the possible options from Monier Williams: mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c. As you can see this does not specifically indicate enemy, but rather anyone who can deceive you or USE your weaknesses. Further Sharma does comment that in the Bombay edition of BPHS this sloka doesn't mention enemies at all. Btw. most scripts accept the word 'ripu' as a well known indicator of the sixth house. Parasara has just further shown that this can also be seen in the eighth house which is fine. o Reg. Mars vs. Saturn for the sixth house karakatva oSatyacharya also mentions Saturn whilst Parasara mentions Mars. The question is do we accept that the sixth house shows our internal weaknesses (saturn) and because of these the various problems in life arise. Or do we accept that the sixth house shows our external enemies (Mars)? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC GuruJaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) comFor consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com Shailesh Chandra Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, Your explanation, of equating 6th house to shad-ripus is not in line with the jyotish principles. Shad-ripus are six enemies - the enemies within. - or weaknesses Weakness, and even enmity, is indicated by 8th bhava, not 6th. As per BPHS: Indications of Ari Bhava. Maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step-mother etc. are to be estimated from Ari Bhava. Indications of Randhr Bhava. Randhr Bhava indicates longevity, battle, enemies, forts, wealth of the dead and things, that have happened and are to happen (in the past and future births). Therefore, you are correct is associating Saturn with Shad-ripus, and weaknesses, but do not assign the 6th bhava karakatwa to Saturn. BPHS assigns it to Mars and we have no reason, or any logical explanation to go against it. Regards, - Shailesh , Visti Larsen <visti wrote:>> ??? ??? ??????> > Dear Tarun, Namaskar> I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail.> > Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating > themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in winning > great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these weaknesses > are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the > battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth house > is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Madha > and Matsyara.> > A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six rajasic > and tamasic planets to these.> > To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths or > wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword of > prayer is the /brianica/ or rosary and is a vital part of the persons > progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house (prayer) > and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and death/maraka > (7th) from the sixth house of sin.> > The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main karaka for > the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of sin. > Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from others > or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases, fights, > etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems may > arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or kaama > (lust). But, they are all sins.> > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> Jaimini SJC - Denmark> email: visti <visti@ ...> For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > < http://srigaruda.com>> > Tarun wrote:> >> > Dear sir,> >> > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too.> > 6th house is the house of satya. > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is> > not always correct> > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn.> > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > if he needs to be courageous then sun> > if he needs mind to win the disputes> >> > so on...> >> > Please correct me where i went wrong.> >> > Regards > >> > Tarun> >> > > > < %40>, "~Tarun~" tarun.virgo@> > wrote:> > >> > > Dear sir,> > >> > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > > 6th house is the house of satya.> > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is> > not always correct> > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > > if person has to fight in battle then mars> > > if he needs to be courageous then sun> > > if he needs mind to win the disputes> > >> > > so on...> > >> > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Tarun> > >> > >> > > - > > > kishore patnaik> > > vedic astrology > > < vedic astrology%40> ;> > > > < %40> ;> > Astro_Remedies > > < Astro_Remedies%40> ; > > < %40> ;> > lalkitab < lalkitab%40> ; > > naastrology < naastrology%40> ; SJC-> > Africa < Africa%40> ; > > < %40> ;> > sohamsa < sohamsa%40> ; > > Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad > > < Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad%40>> > > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM> > > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house> > >> > >> > > dear all,> > >> > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha> > mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence,> > for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a > > word document and am enclosing it here.> > >> > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this> > topic in this group.> > >> > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have > > missed on any message in this thread.> > >> > >> > > regards,> > >> > > kishore patnaik> > >> >> >> -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478(O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 - Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, Here is some more food for thought. I feel that our confusion arises out of mixing-up of cause and effect. Shad-ripus are the cause and enmity, sickness, wounds, etc are the effects. Enemies(6th house) are there because there is enmity(8th house). Wounds are caused by weapons, ulcers are caused due to excess body-heat, maladies are caused due to physical deficiencies of different kinds. Mars is the heat and Saturn is the absense of heat - cold. Lagna is at 8th from 6th house and 8th from the 6th house. Or, can we say that 6th house is manifestation of 8th house - its Arudha, vis-a-vis the lagna. Again, do I make sense? Regards, - Shailesh - Shailesh C Chadha -SJC Wednesday, April 18, 2007 7:21 AM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, I did mention the reason of my disappointment right in the beginning of my mail - "I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics". With Rafal, my objection was to his question - "do have no faith". Anyways, lets forget that - it is non-jyotish and disruptive. I make no claim that only my view point is right - I am ready to be unlearn my errors if you can give me right authority and logical explanation. And I am the first to acknowledge your deep study and vast knowledge of jyotish. So, let it be a long and wide discussion - I am sure I will learn a lot in the process. But, I request once again, do give due consideration to the quotes that appear to be contrary to your line of argument or your belief. And, starting with original Sanskrit text is a good idea - provided we can do a proper and competent translation. Now, when you mention <<this was the exact problem we had with BPHS where the word 'enemy' was written as 'shatru' in one sloka and 'ripu' in another>> I fail to see the point you are trying to make. RIPU and SHATRU are synonymous. Even the expanded meaning of RIPU, quoted by you from Monier Williams << mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c.>> points towards shad-ripus, although purists would object to the meanings attributed by Monier. Now consider this: the word SHATRU has been used for 6th house and RIPU for 8th house. And I agree with you that SHATRU/6th house would refer to ENEMY and RIPU/8th house to weaknesses etc. At another place (while quoting Harihara, reg. doshas) you have said << Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself>>. I feel you have got it wrong here. The common meaning of word AGANTUKA is GUEST. Hence, we have to understand that AGANTUKA DOSHAS as the doshas that come from outside, as compared with the NIJA DOSHAS that arise within. Please apply logic to this distinction between AGANTUKA DOSHA(6th house) and NIJA DOSHA (8th house) and what do you get - 6th house is for the enemy outside and the 8th house is for the enemy within. The above two arguments were presented by you and what do we learn from them - that 6th house refers to the enemies we encunter in the world and 8th house refers to the weaknesses we carry within fronm the previous birth. Then, please tell me, why are you insistent that shad-ripus be seen from the 6th house?? All your arguments prove that Shad-ripus be seen from the 8th house. Do I make sense?? Also, what is your understanding of the names assigned by the classics to the two houses - ARI for the 6th and RANDHRA for the 8th? Is it not suggestive of the functions/ signification of these two houses?? Regards, - Shailesh - Visti Larsen Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:02 AM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, NamaskarFor what reason are you sad? Was it Rafals somewhat blind-sided mail which made you so? I have never said you were wrong and instead clarified how the tradition reads the texts just as a friend shares his experiences with another. If i have not done this then i am at fault as this is how i have attempted to answer your mail. Thinking in these lines I believe you have misread my mail. Let me clarify my angle on your previous mail: You are qouting translations but no sanskrit and this was the exact problem we had with BPHS where the word 'enemy' was written as 'shatru' in one sloka and 'ripu' in another. If we cannot understand one sloka from Parasara then why begin analyzing the others? I'm sure you can understand my viewpoint to the discussion, as we share the same faith in Parasara. I have done exactly that and analyzed Parasara mainly and then added relevant pieces to the discussion where i saw it needed, just as that from Harihara who among all the seers is the only one who has really minced out the true nature of disease... regardless of whether we talk of Prasna jataka or not. If you are ready to analyze the sanskrit slokas of EACH of the classics we can do just that, just give me the word and we can begin, but expect it to be no small task. Prasna Marga is not only applicable in Prasna as many of the techniques portrayed are in fact used in natal charts. Many traditions will tell you this. I have not contradicted your statement reg. Mars being karaka for the sixth house. I cannot contradict Parasara. Instead i have clarified why in the Parampara it is taught that Saturn is the MAIN karaka for the sixth house. Also i have clarified the understanding reg. karakas and also the understanding of the ripus. Reading my mail do you feel unsatisfied with the explanation? If so do show me my flaws word for word. Or instead do you just not agree? Its ok to say you don't agree. Yes, i didn't answer your one point about rajasic planets and the arthatrikona, but i couldn't justify your comment as only Mercury and Venus are rajasic in nature... hence i didn't answer. Please clarify. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC GuruJaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) comFor consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com Shailesh C Chadha wrote:  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, Let me start by saying that I am saddened with your response. I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics. If that was to be so, then why do we study them? Is it only for the purpose of selectively quoting from them when it suits our line of argument and dismiss the contrary as irrelevant or unreliable? I am sorry but that is not the way any healthy discussion can be carried out - it just shows "assumed" intellectual arrogance and it is the first step towards decline in learning. And, to me the bottomline is that BPHS is the supreme jyotish fointain-head; every thing else is a commentary or a learning-aid. Unless logically proved other-wise, no dictum or parampara or Guru can over-ride BPHS teachings. I do not have to remind you that "Sri Jagannath Center (SJC) was established in India with the objective of teaching jyotish in the tradition of maharishis like Parasara and Jaimini." Incidentally, neither you, nor Rafal has offered any logical agrument to contradict what I have quoted. Prasna Marga is just that - applicable only on Prasna - so please do not use it for natal charts. Regards, - Shailesh - Visti Larsen Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:25 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, NamaskarRafal has a point which also answers this question. All bhavas have a root signification and that is why there is one MAIN karaka for each bhava. I.e. we are suffering from the six weaknesses because we could not keep our purity in the past life times. I.e. because we were too prone to anger in this life our anger will be tested. Because we were too attached to money in the past we will be put in situations where taking money can carry serious problems. The root cause is our lack of purity or excess of sin/ripu. Thus MANY MANY classics refer to the sixth bhava by the name 'ripu' and from it we get diseases, accidents, fights, enemies and all the other significations explained by Parasara. These are however the negative indications and are all indicated by Saturn as it is he who carries our dustha karma from many lifetimes and gives it to us in the form of dukha or sorrow. Now you qoute many classics, but mere statistics won't help us. Especially the word 'sin' can have different meanings in sanskrit. Prasna Marga is to my knowledge the only one who has attempted to make this clear differentiation for us when describing the nature of diseases. He states: rogästu dvividhä jïeyä nijägantuvidbhedetaùTranslation: Two types of diseases (roga) are to be known. Nija and ägantu are the two.Harihara later explains that nija is seen from the eighth and fifth houses, whilst agantu is seen from the sixth and badhaka houses. Nija dosha specifically refers to ones OWN karma/dosha. It refers to the bad karma we have caused unto others/the world.Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself For this reason it is taught in the tradition that the eighth lords RASI will show the place of the disease arising out of nija dosha, whereas the sixth lords BHAVA will show the diseases arising out of ones weaknesses/sin... I.e. the Rasis show the world/God whilst the bhavas are created by the individual. Deep rooted perspective indeed. I hope the above makes the paramparas perspective much clearer.Karaka literally means: 'kara' acting/doer; 'ka' does. I.e. the one who acts on behalf of another actor/doer. The closest English word is significator. By making the karaka of a house strong you will overcome the issues associated with that house. I.e. If the digestive fire is good (sun) then the health will be perfect (lagna). If you keep celibacy or purity (mars or some say mercury) then the weaknesses will go away (sixth house). But... this is very idealistic. Most people have the sins already and are acting on behalf of them, and really what they need to do is renounce them and be strong enough to carry them before projecting them on others. This act of carrying the sins is that of Saturn and by making Saturn auspicious the native will never see sorrow and easily cross this life. For this reason Saturn acts as a very strong contender for the karakatva of the sixth house, and this is how the tradition treats it. So recite Om Namo Bhagavate Akuparaaya| and be strong to carry your sins.I hope this clarifies everything. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC GuruJaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) comFor consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com Shailesh Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, You have partly answered the question your self. BPHS mentions 8th house for RIPU and your focus is SHAD-RIPU - provided GC Sharmas version is accurate(as you said); Just as you have mentioned to Tarun - it has to be decided after thorough comparison. So, lets leave that aside for the moment. I will twist your question slightly: is the sixth house confined ONLY to our internal weaknesses (saturn) and the various problems associated with it? Is it right to disregard all other significations of 6 th house and consider only shad-ripus? Please also consider the following - BPHS: Ch. 17. Effects of 6th House2. Ulcers/Bruises. Should 6ths Lord be in 6th itself, or in Lagna, or 8th, there will be ulcers, or bruises on the body. The RÄÅ›i, becoming 6th House, will lead to the knowledge of the concerned limb. Ch. 19. Effects of 8th House 2. Short Life. Should 8ths Lord join Lagnas Lord, or a malefic and be in 8th itself, the native will be short lived. Ch. 24. Effects of the House Lords 1.Effects of Lagnas Lord in Various Houses If Lagnas Lord is in 6th House and related to a malefic the native will be devoid of physical happiness and will be troubled by enemies, if there is no benefic Aspect. If Lagnas Lord is in 8th House, the native will be an accomplished scholar, be sickly, thievish, be given to much anger, be a gambler and will join others wives 61. Effects of 6ths Lord in Various Houses If 6ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be sickly, famous, inimical to his own men, rich, honourable, adventurous and virtuous. 85. Effects of 8ths Lord in Various Houses If 8ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be devoid of physical felicity and will suffer from wounds. He will be hostile to gods and Brahmins. Satya Jataka The sixth house signifies diseases, troubles from enemies, worries, injuries, litigation, sorrows, maternal uncle, injuries, armies, mental worries and legal involvements. The eighth house signifies longevity, misfortunes, sins, debts, enmity, death, difficulties, impediments, grief and unhappiness resulting from sins committed in previous births, sudden and untimely death and enemies Mars: He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals, mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war, instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin, wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests, bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. Saturn: indicates evil nature, cunningness, impediments, wickedness, servants, mean acts, thieves, old dilapidated houses, bitter fruits, forests, fruits with thick skin, wild flowers, trees full of thorns, bamboos, palmyra trees, margosa trees and wild animals. Daivagyna Vallabha Ill health, bad state, enemies, servants, cruel deeds, heavy actions, witchcraft applied by enemies with an intention of killing enemies, doubts, wars, uncle, buffaloes, diseases, etc. are to be considered from the sixth house. Longevity and enmity, death, ruling powers, strife, quarrels, cleft, quarrels among relatives, hatred, places difficult to approach, fort, destruction of wife and enemies, crossing of rivers etc. are to be seen from the eighth house. In most of the above quotes, sins and similar weaknesses have been associated with 8 th house. Furthermore, Sixth house is part of Artha Trikona – would not a Rajasic planet be a better significator? Regards, - Shailesh On 17 Apr 2007 00:45:42 -0700, Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> wrote: हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, NamaskarI checked BPHS and found the translation in line with what you have said. However when analyzing the sanskrit something becomes very prevailent.--sixth house--mÄtulÄntakaÅ›aá¹kÄnÄá¹ Å›atrÅ«á¹Å›caiva vraṇÄdikÄn| sapalnÄ«mÄtaraá¹ cÄpi á¹£aá¹£á¹habhÄvÄnnirÄ«ká¹£yet||7|| Here the word 'shatru' has been used to indicate the enemies which leaves no doubt that the reference is to enemies. --eighth house--ÄyÅ« raṇa ripuḥ cÄpi durgaá¹ mï…—tadhanaá¹ tathÄ|gatyanukÄdikaá¹ sarvaá¹ paÅ›yedraá¹dhrÄdvicaká¹£aṇaḥ|| Here Sharma has translated 'ripu' as 'enemies' which is only PARTLY correct. Here are the possible options from Monier Williams: mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c. As you can see this does not specifically indicate enemy, but rather anyone who can deceive you or USE your weaknesses. Further Sharma does comment that in the Bombay edition of BPHS this sloka doesn't mention enemies at all. Btw. most scripts accept the word 'ripu' as a well known indicator of the sixth house. Parasara has just further shown that this can also be seen in the eighth house which is fine. o Reg. Mars vs. Saturn for the sixth house karakatva oSatyacharya also mentions Saturn whilst Parasara mentions Mars. The question is do we accept that the sixth house shows our internal weaknesses (saturn) and because of these the various problems in life arise. Or do we accept that the sixth house shows our external enemies (Mars)? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC GuruJaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) comFor consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com Shailesh Chandra Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, Your explanation, of equating 6th house to shad-ripus is not in line with the jyotish principles. Shad-ripus are six enemies - the enemies within. - or weaknesses Weakness, and even enmity, is indicated by 8th bhava, not 6th. As per BPHS: Indications of Ari Bhava. Maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step-mother etc. are to be estimated from Ari Bhava. Indications of Randhr Bhava. Randhr Bhava indicates longevity, battle, enemies, forts, wealth of the dead and things, that have happened and are to happen (in the past and future births). Therefore, you are correct is associating Saturn with Shad-ripus, and weaknesses, but do not assign the 6th bhava karakatwa to Saturn. BPHS assigns it to Mars and we have no reason, or any logical explanation to go against it. Regards, - Shailesh , Visti Larsen <visti wrote:>> ??? ??? ??????> > Dear Tarun, Namaskar> I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail.> > Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating > themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in winning > great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these weaknesses > are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the > battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth house > is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Madha > and Matsyara.> > A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six rajasic > and tamasic planets to these.> > To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths or > wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword of > prayer is the /brianica/ or rosary and is a vital part of the persons > progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house (prayer) > and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and death/maraka > (7th) from the sixth house of sin.> > The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main karaka for > the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of sin. > Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from others > or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases, fights, > etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems may > arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or kaama > (lust). But, they are all sins.> > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> Jaimini SJC - Denmark> email: visti <visti@ ...> For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > < http://srigaruda.com>> > Tarun wrote:> >> > Dear sir,> >> > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too.> > 6th house is the house of satya. > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is> > not always correct> > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn.> > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > if he needs to be courageous then sun> > if he needs mind to win the disputes> >> > so on...> >> > Please correct me where i went wrong.> >> > Regards > >> > Tarun> >> > > > < %40>, "~Tarun~" tarun.virgo@> > wrote:> > >> > > Dear sir,> > >> > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > > 6th house is the house of satya.> > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is> > not always correct> > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > > if person has to fight in battle then mars> > > if he needs to be courageous then sun> > > if he needs mind to win the disputes> > >> > > so on...> > >> > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Tarun> > >> > >> > > - > > > kishore patnaik> > > vedic astrology > > < vedic astrology%40> ;> > > > < %40> ;> > Astro_Remedies > > < Astro_Remedies%40> ; > > < %40> ;> > lalkitab < lalkitab%40> ; > > naastrology < naastrology%40> ; SJC-> > Africa < Africa%40> ; > > < %40> ;> > sohamsa < sohamsa%40> ; > > Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad > > < Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad%40>> > > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM> > > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house> > >> > >> > > dear all,> > >> > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha> > mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence,> > for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a > > word document and am enclosing it here.> > >> > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this> > topic in this group.> > >> > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have > > missed on any message in this thread.> > >> > >> > > regards,> > >> > > kishore patnaik> > >> >> >> -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478(O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 - Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 || Om Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah || Respected Rafal ji, Namaskar. I have given you references from the Sastra's for which on Mars can be a significator of Sixth House with a map of enemies w.r.t Ari bhava stated in all of the texts that I gave. Can you please give me some excerpts from sastra's which are describing Saturn as a Karaka for Sixth House? And also give me a short explanations in terms of Bhava Karakatwas versus Karakas. To be honestly I am not at all interested in discussions (Tarka Samvada on shad-ripus and the other stuff)which was not mentioned in sastra's as it dont solve the current problem and we should stay focused on what we are discussing instead of devaiting from it in different ways with our own assumptions and linking it with the current topic. To be honestly there was no ** hardwork ** related to Sixth house in any of the jyotish classicals. Its the work one have to perform to overcome sixth house karakatwas if I am not wrong. According to my knowledge ** if Guru was mistaken it doesnt necessarily mean that the Sastra and Sastra Karta (who wrote that sastra) are wrong **. That all depends on the level of the perception and time of perception of the Guru.The perception levels change from time to time. And also we should not forget that the Guru is also a student forever. Forgive me if I meant anything wrong or if any sentence hurted you. Regards, Upendra Agnihotram sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *hare rama krsna* > > Dear Upendra, > > I think this will not solve the problem, as we all agree that there are > two karakas - Sani and Mars, the problem is which is primary Karaka? So > the first quesion should be WHAT TYPE OF ARGUMENT WE ALL ACCEPT AS > FINAL? Still the sastra will count the Sani and Mangal karakatwa reg > sixth bhava and there is no reason to think that even if they are more > attributed to Mangal then its primary. The number doesnt mean much, THE > CORE MEAN MUCH. How to see the core of the house per Sastra? > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > SJC Guru > www.rohinaa.com > (+48) 503 44 18 18 > > upendra_agni napisa?(a): > > > > Respected Gurus, > > > > In order to strenghten my comments on Mars as Karaka for VI House, > > > > An Excerpt from BPHS 7th Chapter. > > > > 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari, > > Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the names > > of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you > > to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by Lord > > Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the > > following verses). > > > > Excerpt from Phaladeepika > > > > Ch1-13. --- The sixth house deals with debts, arms, thieves, wounds, > > diseases, enemies, paternal relations, battle, wicked acts, sins, > > fear and humilialtion. > > Ch2-3. All about one's strength (physical and mental), products > > produced from the earth, qualities of the brothers and sisters, > > cruelty, battle, courage, antagonism, the fire of the kitchen, gold, > > kinsmen, weapons, thieves, enemies, enthusiasm, sexual intercourse > > with another man's wife, falsehood, prowess, high thinking, sin, > > wounds, and acquisition of the position of a commander-in- chief > > should be ascertained from Mars. > > In other words Mars is the signiflcator of these matters. > > > > Excerpt from Brighu Sutras: > > > > Sixth House > > Sickness, diseases, nursing, food, service, employees, subordinates > > or servants, > > debts, cattle, tenants, enemies, maternal uncle, miserliness, > > intense anguish, > > litigation etc. > > > > >From Brihat Jataka of varaha mihira > > > > Stanza 15: > > The twelve houses from lagna have been given the following names: > > (1) Thanu, (2) Kutumba,Putra, (6) Ari, (7) Patni, (8) Marana, (9) > > Shubha, (10) Aspada, (11) Aaya, and (12) Ripha. 10th and 11th houses > > from lagna, while the rest are Apachayas. Some say that these should > > Stanza 16:Kalya, Swa, Vikrama, Griha, Pratibha, Kshata, Chitthotha, > > Randhra, Guru, Mana, Bhava, second, third, etc., houses, > > respectively. The fourth and eighth from lagna are technically > > called goes under the name of Dyuna and the tenth is Agnya. > > > > >From Satya Jataka from Chapter 2 > > > > 3. The Mars: > > 1. Mars is reddish in colour. He has a youthful form. His body is > > lean and slender at the waist His head is square. His gaze is fierce > > and is directed upwards. His > > height is seven yojanas. > > 2. Temperament : By nature Mars is very cruel. He is fickle- minded > > and ferocious. > > He is rash in his actions but is extremely generous. His body is > > warm. > > 3. Guna: Mars represents rajasa guna. > > 4. Direction: Mars rules the southern direction. > > 5. Rays: Mars has five rays. > > 6. Age: His age is four years. > > 7. Grain: Dal and red grains. > > Other Significations: > > 8. He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny > > trees, wild animals,mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, > > houses, anger, war,instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter > > taste, energy, prowess, sin,wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, > > cruelty and torture, roaming in forests,bronze, golden waist- string, > > pomp and show and a house on fire. > > 9. Strength: He is strong during the night and during the dark lunar > > half. > > (See The Mars Significations mapped to enemies here) > > > > >From Sankethanidhi > > > > 52-53 . Of several parts of the body of Kalapurusha, or time- > > personified, beginning with the head, the sixth is the navel and > > this is allotted to the sixth house. Sixth is also the house of > > animals. All good and bad about pet animals belonging to the native > > should beconsidered from this house. The other matters which concern > > 6th house are cruel actions, diseases, ears maternal uncle enemies, > > anxiety, suspicions. If the lord of 6th depowerful, owns a benefic > > sign and be associated with or aspected by benefics auspicious > > results may be expected from this house. The results would not be > > favourable if there be malefic influence on 6th house. > > > > >From Horasara > > > > The twelve Bhavas from Lagn are, respectively, called as: Tanu, Dhan > > (Artha), Sahaj,Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati (Kalatra), Randhr (Nidhana) , > > Dharm, Karm (Kriya), Labh(Aya) and Vyaya (Vigama). > > > > Notes: The meanings of the 12 synonyms given above are: body, > > wealth, co-born, relatives,children, enemies, wife, death, > > righteousness, or good work (one of the four ends of > > human existence), action, income and loss. > > > > By now you might have seen VI Bhava is mentioned as Ari Bhava and > > this Sanskrit Word means Enemy. (Reference > > http://sanskritdocu ments.org/ dict/dictall. txt > > <http://sanskritdocuments.org/dict/dictall.txt> or any Sanskrit > > Dictionary) > > > > Almost all Who wrote Books on this Great Jyotish Sastra agreed that > > the significator for Enemies is Mars. > > > > Hope this helps for future discussion. > > > > Regards, > > Upendra > > > > > > <%40>, " upendra_agni " > > <upendra.agni@ ...> wrote: > > > > || Om Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah || > > > > Respected All, > > > > If I am not wrong though each word in this world can have many > > meanings and implications, but there will be a meaning which is well > > known to all. > > > > And I personally hope there are no words in Jyotish classicals are > > written for hiding the orginal message in secret form as these are > > not kavya's or drama's. It had been clearly written in a common > > man's > > language at the time of BPHS or any jyotish classical was written. I > > request you not to forget that even a lay man in Indian culture used > > to understand and talk in Sanskrit before Moghulai's and British > > Rule. > > > > Sanskrit Word Ripu primarily stands for the meaning Satru (i.e. > > Enemy). You can see its usage in many Sanskrit and Telugu Kavya's > > and > > most of the sansrit text's like Raghuvamsam etc., > > > > I would like to ask Visti ji, Rafal ji to forgive me for going > > against there comments. > > > > Though we can extract many things from a Bhava in various > > perspectives we will see it for a prime (intution)reason. The rest > > depends upon what we want to see in the horoscope or what our > > perception is?. > > > > And for my knowledge His Holiness Great Sage Parasara had written > > the > > bhavas in this context. See an excerpt from BPHS. > > > > 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari, > > Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the names > > of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you > > to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by Lord > > Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the > > following verses). > > > > Sanskrit ARI means Enemy without any doubt. So Sage Parasara had > > mentioned the Karaka as Mars for Enemies to Sixth House. > > > > I request Mr. Tarun to keepin mind to use words in effective manner. > > We are not as knowledged as Sage Parasara to criticize his texts.And > > not to forget that Sage Parasara got this knowledge directly from > > Lord Brahma the CREATOR. > > > > If you can remind Mr. B.V.Raman words, " Those who know Astrology can > > only indicate in a way what will take place in future. Who else, > > except the Creator Brahma,can say with certainty what will > > definitely > > happen ? " > > > > I personally hope that we should not take our own meanings > > associated > > with the words to suffice our Self (Aham) and we are not supposed to > > talk the un-necessary things in this context when we are discussing > > about just Karaka's and 6th Bhava. > > > > It will be a great thing if one could give an example why Sani is > > Karaka for 6th House or Mars is Karaka for sixth house? > > > > In almost all jyothish texts though some have agreed and some others > > not, when coming to the enemies point of view all stand on a single > > boat that Mars is Karaka for Enemies. > > > > I would request the Honorable Gurus like Sanjay Rath or PVR or > > Partha > > who had learnt Jyothish from their childhood and who had deeply > > thought in this perspective would comment in this thread in- order to > > put the discussion to an end. > > > > I request you all to forgive me if I had hurt any of your thoughts > > > > > > <%40>, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > *hare rama krsna* > > > > > > Dear Tarun, > > > > > > Or best we can wait for Sanjayji BPHS commentary;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rafal Gendarz > > > SJC Guru > > > www.rohinaa. com > > > (+48) 503 44 18 18 > > > > > > ~Tarun~ napisaÅ,(a): > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Even i trust BPHs but just it creates doubt because sanksrit has > > lakhs > > > > of words and their meanings. and just to convert it in english's > > few > > > > words so I had said that. > > > > > > > > Actually i meant that we must go through the sanksrit version > > instead > > > > of its english translation. > > > > > > > > " Ripu " are those which want to take your life and want you to > > get > > > > dead...so it is related to 8th house in that form. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Tarun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 hare rama krsna Dear Upendra Comments below. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 upendra_agni napisał(a): || Om Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah || Respected Rafal ji, Namaskar. I have given you references from the Sastra's for which on Mars can be a significator of Sixth House with a map of enemies w.r.t Ari bhava stated in all of the texts that I gave. [rafal] Guruji said about Satya Jatakam. Karakatwa of sixth bhava doesnt say much about the core taste and colour of the bhava. That You must know. Can you please give me some excerpts from sastra's which are describing Saturn as a Karaka for Sixth House? And also give me a short explanations in terms of Bhava Karakatwas versus Karakas. [rafal] All dushtanas shows fruits of activities which are hard to get, if the lord is in the sixth then the enemies can take away this fruits and one have to work hard to built area of the bhava which lord is there, if the sixth lord is in other bhava then it shows which we treat as enemies. Therefore the trees with fruits are connected to Jupiter while the other outer planet which shows obstacles in getting it is Sani and thats the core of all dushtana's, the Sani is also the Upachaya (depending on the relation of lord) therefore it can show our effort and struggle (mangal) to overcome the weakness/struggle, therefore Mangal debilitates the Sani and the effort of Sura Graha can make one stronger as Mangal is the giver of Satva (strength). To be honestly I am not at all interested in discussions (Tarka Samvada on shad-ripus and the other stuff)which was not mentioned in sastra's as it dont solve the current problem and we should stay focused on what we are discussing instead of devaiting from it in different ways with our own assumptions and linking it with the current topic. [rafal] I repeat once again, there is (1) sastra and (2) parampara. Being in SJC means that You accept the teachings of the tradition. If thats the teaching of the tradition it must be accepted and THEN you must change Your perspective and with this new vision look at sastra's or seek the explanation and discuss these points. If You do the opposite then its not the parampara anymore as then the hierarchy id disturbed. If Sanjayji says its Sani, then what I can do with my understanding of sanksrit, classics and all that - that demands a real study which can take Your ten years, I put weightage to my time and the Guru gives shortcuts in our way to Jyotish which normally takes few lifetimes. Of course there are some people which question Sanjayji words and follow own opinion, thats their way of understanding. To be honestly there was no ** hardwork ** related to Sixth house in any of the jyotish classicals. Its the work one have to perform to overcome sixth house karakatwas if I am not wrong. [rafal] Sani has many karakatwas, Sun is also responsible for hard work. According to my knowledge ** if Guru was mistaken it doesnt necessarily mean that the Sastra and Sastra Karta (who wrote that sastra) are wrong **. [rafal] The blind faith is not so bad when the source is authoritative but the reason must be used always, only change the proportion. That all depends on the level of the perception and time of perception of the Guru.The perception levels change from time to time. And also we should not forget that the Guru is also a student forever. Forgive me if I meant anything wrong or if any sentence hurted you. Regards, Upendra Agnihotram sohamsa@ ..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote: > > *hare rama krsna* > > Dear Upendra, > > I think this will not solve the problem, as we all agree that there are > two karakas - Sani and Mars, the problem is which is primary Karaka? So > the first quesion should be WHAT TYPE OF ARGUMENT WE ALL ACCEPT AS > FINAL? Still the sastra will count the Sani and Mangal karakatwa reg > sixth bhava and there is no reason to think that even if they are more > attributed to Mangal then its primary. The number doesnt mean much, THE > CORE MEAN MUCH. How to see the core of the house per Sastra? > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz > SJC Guru > www.rohinaa. com > (+48) 503 44 18 18 > > upendra_agni napisa?(a): > > > > Respected Gurus, > > > > In order to strenghten my comments on Mars as Karaka for VI House, > > > > An Excerpt from BPHS 7th Chapter. > > > > 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari, > > Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the names > > of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you > > to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by Lord > > Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the > > following verses). > > > > Excerpt from Phaladeepika > > > > Ch1-13. --- The sixth house deals with debts, arms, thieves, wounds, > > diseases, enemies, paternal relations, battle, wicked acts, sins, > > fear and humilialtion. > > Ch2-3. All about one's strength (physical and mental), products > > produced from the earth, qualities of the brothers and sisters, > > cruelty, battle, courage, antagonism, the fire of the kitchen, gold, > > kinsmen, weapons, thieves, enemies, enthusiasm, sexual intercourse > > with another man's wife, falsehood, prowess, high thinking, sin, > > wounds, and acquisition of the position of a commander-in- chief > > should be ascertained from Mars. > > In other words Mars is the signiflcator of these matters. > > > > Excerpt from Brighu Sutras: > > > > Sixth House > > Sickness, diseases, nursing, food, service, employees, subordinates > > or servants, > > debts, cattle, tenants, enemies, maternal uncle, miserliness, > > intense anguish, > > litigation etc. > > > > >From Brihat Jataka of varaha mihira > > > > Stanza 15: > > The twelve houses from lagna have been given the following names: > > (1) Thanu, (2) Kutumba,Putra, (6) Ari, (7) Patni, (8) Marana, (9) > > Shubha, (10) Aspada, (11) Aaya, and (12) Ripha. 10th and 11th houses > > from lagna, while the rest are Apachayas. Some say that these should > > Stanza 16:Kalya, Swa, Vikrama, Griha, Pratibha, Kshata, Chitthotha, > > Randhra, Guru, Mana, Bhava, second, third, etc., houses, > > respectively. The fourth and eighth from lagna are technically > > called goes under the name of Dyuna and the tenth is Agnya. > > > > >From Satya Jataka from Chapter 2 > > > > 3. The Mars: > > 1. Mars is reddish in colour. He has a youthful form. His body is > > lean and slender at the waist His head is square. His gaze is fierce > > and is directed upwards. His > > height is seven yojanas. > > 2. Temperament : By nature Mars is very cruel. He is fickle- minded > > and ferocious. > > He is rash in his actions but is extremely generous. His body is > > warm. > > 3. Guna: Mars represents rajasa guna. > > 4. Direction: Mars rules the southern direction. > > 5. Rays: Mars has five rays. > > 6. Age: His age is four years. > > 7. Grain: Dal and red grains. > > Other Significations: > > 8. He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny > > trees, wild animals,mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, > > houses, anger, war,instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter > > taste, energy, prowess, sin,wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, > > cruelty and torture, roaming in forests,bronze, golden waist- string, > > pomp and show and a house on fire. > > 9. Strength: He is strong during the night and during the dark lunar > > half. > > (See The Mars Significations mapped to enemies here) > > > > >From Sankethanidhi > > > > 52-53 . Of several parts of the body of Kalapurusha, or time- > > personified, beginning with the head, the sixth is the navel and > > this is allotted to the sixth house. Sixth is also the house of > > animals. All good and bad about pet animals belonging to the native > > should beconsidered from this house. The other matters which concern > > 6th house are cruel actions, diseases, ears maternal uncle enemies, > > anxiety, suspicions. If the lord of 6th depowerful, owns a benefic > > sign and be associated with or aspected by benefics auspicious > > results may be expected from this house. The results would not be > > favourable if there be malefic influence on 6th house. > > > > >From Horasara > > > > The twelve Bhavas from Lagn are, respectively, called as: Tanu, Dhan > > (Artha), Sahaj,Bandhu, Putr, Ari, Yuvati (Kalatra), Randhr (Nidhana) , > > Dharm, Karm (Kriya), Labh(Aya) and Vyaya (Vigama). > > > > Notes: The meanings of the 12 synonyms given above are: body, > > wealth, co-born, relatives,children, enemies, wife, death, > > righteousness, or good work (one of the four ends of > > human existence), action, income and loss. > > > > By now you might have seen VI Bhava is mentioned as Ari Bhava and > > this Sanskrit Word means Enemy. (Reference > > http://sanskritdocu ments.org/ dict/dictall. txt > > <http://sanskritdocu ments.org/ dict/dictall. txt> or any Sanskrit > > Dictionary) > > > > Almost all Who wrote Books on this Great Jyotish Sastra agreed that > > the significator for Enemies is Mars. > > > > Hope this helps for future discussion. > > > > Regards, > > Upendra > > > > > > <srijagannat h%40. com>, "upendra_agni" > > <upendra.agni@ ...> wrote: > > > > || Om Vyam Vyasa Devaya Namah || > > > > Respected All, > > > > If I am not wrong though each word in this world can have many > > meanings and implications, but there will be a meaning which is well > > known to all. > > > > And I personally hope there are no words in Jyotish classicals are > > written for hiding the orginal message in secret form as these are > > not kavya's or drama's. It had been clearly written in a common > > man's > > language at the time of BPHS or any jyotish classical was written. I > > request you not to forget that even a lay man in Indian culture used > > to understand and talk in Sanskrit before Moghulai's and British > > Rule. > > > > Sanskrit Word Ripu primarily stands for the meaning Satru (i.e. > > Enemy). You can see its usage in many Sanskrit and Telugu Kavya's > > and > > most of the sansrit text's like Raghuvamsam etc., > > > > I would like to ask Visti ji, Rafal ji to forgive me for going > > against there comments. > > > > Though we can extract many things from a Bhava in various > > perspectives we will see it for a prime (intution)reason. The rest > > depends upon what we want to see in the horoscope or what our > > perception is?. > > > > And for my knowledge His Holiness Great Sage Parasara had written > > the > > bhavas in this context. See an excerpt from BPHS. > > > > 37-38. Names of Bhavas. Thanu, Dhan, Sahaj, Bandhu, Putr, Ari, > > Yuvati, Randhr, Dharm, Karma,Labh and Vyaya are in order the names > > of Bhavas. I explained these briefly and leave it to you > > to grasp more, according to your intelligence. As delivered by Lord > > Brahma, some further information is added thus (i.e. in the > > following verses). > > > > Sanskrit ARI means Enemy without any doubt. So Sage Parasara had > > mentioned the Karaka as Mars for Enemies to Sixth House. > > > > I request Mr. Tarun to keepin mind to use words in effective manner. > > We are not as knowledged as Sage Parasara to criticize his texts.And > > not to forget that Sage Parasara got this knowledge directly from > > Lord Brahma the CREATOR. > > > > If you can remind Mr. B.V.Raman words, "Those who know Astrology can > > only indicate in a way what will take place in future. Who else, > > except the Creator Brahma,can say with certainty what will > > definitely > > happen ?" > > > > I personally hope that we should not take our own meanings > > associated > > with the words to suffice our Self (Aham) and we are not supposed to > > talk the un-necessary things in this context when we are discussing > > about just Karaka's and 6th Bhava. > > > > It will be a great thing if one could give an example why Sani is > > Karaka for 6th House or Mars is Karaka for sixth house? > > > > In almost all jyothish texts though some have agreed and some others > > not, when coming to the enemies point of view all stand on a single > > boat that Mars is Karaka for Enemies. > > > > I would request the Honorable Gurus like Sanjay Rath or PVR or > > Partha > > who had learnt Jyothish from their childhood and who had deeply > > thought in this perspective would comment in this thread in- order to > > put the discussion to an end. > > > > I request you all to forgive me if I had hurt any of your thoughts > > > > > > <srijagannat h%40. com>, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > *hare rama krsna* > > > > > > Dear Tarun, > > > > > > Or best we can wait for Sanjayji BPHS commentary;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rafal Gendarz > > > SJC Guru > > > www.rohinaa. com > > > (+48) 503 44 18 18 > > > > > > ~Tarun~ napisaÅ,(a): > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Even i trust BPHs but just it creates doubt because sanksrit has > > lakhs > > > > of words and their meanings. and just to convert it in english's > > few > > > > words so I had said that. > > > > > > > > Actually i meant that we must go through the sanksrit version > > instead > > > > of its english translation. > > > > > > > > " Ripu " are those which want to take your life and want you to > > get > > > > dead...so it is related to 8th house in that form. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Tarun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Yes, its all depends on Pranamas we accept. For our logic the anumana is important and for our faith the sabda element is important, I recognized that You respect the logic in the big way. I do the same but in the different proportion, therefore for me it was weird that Sanjayji words are not final. Therefore there is big benefit to Your discusion with sanskrit terms, philosophy of enemies vs flaws and all that, but if we dont accept authority of Guru then I dont see the difference between parampara and open forums in the western world where the hierarchy of pranama is completely different. Dont take me as blindsided, dogmatic - its simply the issue of proportion.I had no intention to put bad emotion or low standart of discussion so forgive me any bad usage of words. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Rafal, Agreed to all your points - except: - It is wrong to say I cannot take agruements; I am open to all reasonable and logical agruments. - In case of a contradiction between BPHS and Prasna Marga(or any other classic), we HAVE to accept BPHS as the ultimate authority; else our entire Jyotish teachings will collapse. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz @ . com Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:29 AM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Its sad that You cant take this arguments as they sounds nice and reasonable. So the problem is somewhere else.. Sanjayji in the lecture about diseases takes the division on diseases from Prasna Marga and uses this in Natal. In the same place we do with Badhak and other things. In Pransa Marga are many things which are general in nature - like marriages (also in natal), ashtakavarga, remedies, division of madness etc. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa. com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti, Let me start by saying that I am saddened with your response. I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics. If that was to be so, then why do we study them? Is it only for the purpose of selectively quoting from them when it suits our line of argument and dismiss the contrary as irrelevant or unreliable? I am sorry but that is not the way any healthy discussion can be carried out - it just shows "assumed" intellectual arrogance and it is the first step towards decline in learning. And, to me the bottomline is that BPHS is the supreme jyotish fointain-head; every thing else is a commentary or a learning-aid. Unless logically proved other-wise, no dictum or parampara or Guru can over-ride BPHS teachings. I do not have to remind you that " Sri Jagannath Center (SJC) was established in India with the objective of teaching jyotish in the tradition of maharishis like Parasara and Jaimini. " Incidentally, neither you, nor Rafal has offered any logical agrument to contradict what I have quoted. Prasna Marga is just that - applicable only on Prasna - so please do not use it for natal charts. Regards, - Shailesh - Visti Larsen @ . com Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:25 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar Rafal has a point which also answers this question. All bhavas have a root signification and that is why there is one MAIN karaka for each bhava. I.e. we are suffering from the six weaknesses because we could not keep our purity in the past life times. I.e. because we were too prone to anger in this life our anger will be tested. Because we were too attached to money in the past we will be put in situations where taking money can carry serious problems. The root cause is our lack of purity or excess of sin/ripu. Thus MANY MANY classics refer to the sixth bhava by the name 'ripu' and from it we get diseases, accidents, fights, enemies and all the other significations explained by Parasara. These are however the negative indications and are all indicated by Saturn as it is he who carries our dustha karma from many lifetimes and gives it to us in the form of dukha or sorrow. Now you qoute many classics, but mere statistics won't help us. Especially the word 'sin' can have different meanings in sanskrit. Prasna Marga is to my knowledge the only one who has attempted to make this clear differentiation for us when describing the nature of diseases. He states: rogästu dvividhä jïeyä nijägantuvidbhedetaù Translation: Two types of diseases (roga) are to be known. Nija and ä gantu are the two. Harihara later explains that nija is seen from the eighth and fifth houses, whilst agantu is seen from the sixth and badhaka houses. Nija dosha specifically refers to ones OWN karma/dosha. It refers to the bad karma we have caused unto others/the world. Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself For this reason it is taught in the tradition that the eighth lords RASI will show the place of the disease arising out of nija dosha, whereas the sixth lords BHAVA will show the diseases arising out of ones weaknesses/sin. .. I.e. the Rasis show the world/God whilst the bhavas are created by the individual. Deep rooted perspective indeed. I hope the above makes the paramparas perspective much clearer. Karaka literally means: 'kara' acting/doer; 'ka' does. I.e. the one who acts on behalf of another actor/doer. The closest English word is significator. By making the karaka of a house strong you will overcome the issues associated with that house. I.e. If the digestive fire is good (sun) then the health will be perfect (lagna). If you keep celibacy or purity (mars or some say mercury) then the weaknesses will go away (sixth house). But... this is very idealistic. Most people have the sins already and are acting on behalf of them, and really what they need to do is renounce them and be strong enough to carry them before projecting them on others. This act of carrying the sins is that of Saturn and by making Saturn auspicious the native will never see sorrow and easily cross this life. For this reason Saturn acts as a very strong contender for the karakatva of the sixth house, and this is how the tradition treats it. So recite Om Namo Bhagavate Akuparaaya| and be strong to carry your sins. I hope this clarifies everything. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti, You have partly answered the question your self. BPHS mentions 8th house for RIPU and your focus is SHAD-RIPU - provided GC Sharmas version is accurate(as you said); Just as you have mentioned to Tarun - it has to be decided after thorough comparison. So, lets leave that aside for the moment. I will twist your question slightly: is the sixth house confined ONLY to our internal weaknesses (saturn) and the various problems associated with it? Is it right to disregard all other significations of 6 th house and consider only shad-ripus? Please also consider the following - BPHS: Ch. 17. Effects of 6th House 2. Ulcers/Bruises. Should 6ths Lord be in 6th itself, or in Lagna, or 8th, there will be ulcers, or bruises on the body. The RÄÅ›i, becoming 6th House, will lead to the knowledge of the concerned limb. Ch. 19. Effects of 8th House 2. Short Life. Should 8ths Lord join Lagnas Lord, or a malefic and be in 8th itself, the native will be short lived. Ch. 24. Effects of the House Lords 1.Effects of Lagnas Lord in Various Houses If Lagnas Lord is in 6th House and related to a malefic the native will be devoid of physical happiness and will be troubled by enemies, if there is no benefic Aspect. If Lagnas Lord is in 8th House, the native will be an accomplished scholar, be sickly, thievish, be given to much anger, be a gambler and will join others wives 61. Effects of 6ths Lord in Various Houses If 6ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be sickly, famous, inimical to his own men, rich, honourable, adventurous and virtuous. 85. Effects of 8ths Lord in Various Houses If 8ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be devoid of physical felicity and will suffer from wounds. He will be hostile to gods and Brahmins. Satya Jataka The sixth house signifies diseases, troubles from enemies, worries, injuries, litigation, sorrows, maternal uncle, injuries, armies, mental worries and legal involvements. The eighth house signifies longevity, misfortunes, sins, debts, enmity, death, difficulties, impediments, grief and unhappiness resulting from sins committed in previous births, sudden and untimely death and enemies Mars: He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals, mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war, instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin, wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests, bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. Saturn: indicates evil nature, cunningness, impediments, wickedness, servants, mean acts, thieves, old dilapidated houses, bitter fruits, forests, fruits with thick skin, wild flowers, trees full of thorns, bamboos, palmyra trees, margosa trees and wild animals. Daivagyna Vallabha Ill health, bad state, enemies, servants, cruel deeds, heavy actions, witchcraft applied by enemies with an intention of killing enemies, doubts, wars, uncle, buffaloes, diseases, etc. are to be considered from the sixth house. Longevity and enmity, death, ruling powers, strife, quarrels, cleft, quarrels among relatives, hatred, places difficult to approach, fort, destruction of wife and enemies, crossing of rivers etc. are to be seen from the eighth house. In most of the above quotes, sins and similar weaknesses have been associated with 8 th house. Furthermore, Sixth house is part of Artha Trikona – would not a Rajasic planet be a better significator?  Regards,  - Shailesh On 17 Apr 2007 00:45:42 -0700, Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> wrote: हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar I checked BPHS and found the translation in line with what you have said. However when analyzing the sanskrit something becomes very prevailent. --sixth house-- mÄtulÄntakaÅ›aá¹kÄnÄá¹ Å›atrÅ«á¹Å›caiva vraṇÄdikÄn| sapalnÄ«mÄtaraá¹ cÄpi á¹£aá¹£á¹habhÄvÄnnirÄ«ká¹£yet||7|| Here the word 'shatru' has been used to indicate the enemies which leaves no doubt that the reference is to enemies. --eighth house-- ÄyÅ« raṇa ripuḥ cÄpi durgaá¹ mï…—tadhanaá¹ tathÄ| gatyanukÄdikaá¹ sarvaá¹ paÅ›yedraá¹dhrÄdvicaká¹£aṇaḥ|| Here Sharma has translated 'ripu' as 'enemies' which is only PARTLY correct. Here are the possible options from Monier Williams:  mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c. As you can see this does not specifically indicate enemy, but rather anyone who can deceive you or USE your weaknesses. Further Sharma does comment that in the Bombay edition of BPHS this sloka doesn't mention enemies at all. Btw. most scripts accept the word 'ripu' as a well known indicator of the sixth house. Parasara has just further shown that this can also be seen in the eighth house which is fine. o Reg. Mars vs. Saturn for the sixth house karakatva o Satyacharya also mentions Saturn whilst Parasara mentions Mars. The question is do we accept that the sixth house shows our internal weaknesses (saturn) and because of these the various problems in life arise. Or do we accept that the sixth house shows our external enemies (Mars)? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chandra Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti,  Your explanation, of equating 6th house to shad-ripus is not in line with the jyotish principles.  Shad-ripus are six enemies - the enemies within. - or weaknesses  Weakness, and even enmity, is indicated by 8th bhava, not 6th.  As per BPHS: Indications of Ari Bhava. Maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step-mother etc. are to be estimated from Ari Bhava.  Indications of Randhr Bhava. Randhr Bhava indicates longevity, battle, enemies, forts, wealth of the dead and things, that have happened and are to happen (in the past and future births).  Therefore, you are correct is associating Saturn with Shad-ripus, and weaknesses, but do not assign the 6th bhava karakatwa to Saturn.  BPHS assigns it to Mars and we have no reason, or any logical explanation to go against it.  Regards,  - Shailesh @ . com, Visti Larsen <visti wrote: > > ??? ??? ?????? > > Dear Tarun, Namaskar > I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail. > > Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating > themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in winning > great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these weaknesses > are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the > battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth house > is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Madha > and Matsyara. > > A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six rajasic > and tamasic planets to these. > > To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths or > wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword of > prayer is the /brianica/ or rosary and is a vital part of the persons > progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house (prayer) > and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and death/maraka > (7th) from the sixth house of sin. > > The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main karaka for > the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of sin. > Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from others > or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases, fights, > etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems may > arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or kaama > (lust). But, they are all sins. > > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > email: visti <visti@ ... > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > < http://srigaruda.com> > > Tarun wrote: > > > > Dear sir, > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is > > not always correct > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > so on... > > > > Please correct me where i went wrong. > > > > Regards > > > > Tarun > > > > @ . com > > < %40. com>, "~Tarun~" tarun.virgo@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear sir, > > > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ....it is > > not always correct > > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > > > so on... > > > > > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Tarun > > > > > > > > > - > > > kishore patnaik > > > vedic astrology@ . com > > < vedic astrology%40g roups.com> ; > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > < % 40. com> ; > > Astro_Remedies@ . com > > < Astro_Remedies%40gro ups.com> ; > > @ . com < %40. com> ; > > lalkitab < lalkitab%40. com> ; > > naastrology@ . com < naastrology%40. com> ; SJC- > > Africa (AT) (DOT) com < Africa%40. com> ; > > @ . com < %40. com> ; > > sohamsa@ ..com < sohamsa%40. com> ; > > Vedic Astrology- Hyderabad > > < Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad% 40. com> > > > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house > > > > > > > > > dear all, > > > > > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha > > mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, > > for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a > > word document and am enclosing it here. > > > > > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this > > topic in this group. > > > > > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have > > missed on any message in this thread. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > >  -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®       (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Yes...so to conclude we have two things to do (1) seek further in classics (2) ask Sanjayji for explanation..I dont have any more arguments here. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, Lets forget the unpleasantness and take this discussion forward in a healthy and meaningful way. Ultimately, we are here to learn and thats what our focus should be. Please also understand that I have the utmost respect for my Guru and I am sure no true Guru will purposely teach what is wrong. And, the highest of the Gurus have always encouraged their shishyas to go out and seek the truth, they too accept that they are human and are always ready to acknowledge their errors. If Sanjay ji has changed his view-point from what he has mentioned in COVA and elsewhere, he should have a good reason for the same and he has to reveal the same. Till such time, I suggest we go with the classics. And there are very strong reasons to do so, as I have mentioned in my mails to Visti and Upendra has, in his latest mail. Regards, - Shailesh ----- Original Message ----- Rafal Gendarz To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Yes, its all depends on Pranamas we accept. For our logic the anumana is important and for our faith the sabda element is important, I recognized that You respect the logic in the big way. I do the same but in the different proportion, therefore for me it was weird that Sanjayji words are not final. Therefore there is big benefit to Your discusion with sanskrit terms, philosophy of enemies vs flaws and all that, but if we dont accept authority of Guru then I dont see the difference between parampara and open forums in the western world where the hierarchy of pranama is completely different. Dont take me as blindsided, dogmatic - its simply the issue of proportion.I had no intention to put bad emotion or low standart of discussion so forgive me any bad usage of words. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa.com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Rafal, Agreed to all your points - except: - It is wrong to say I cannot take agruements; I am open to all reasonable and logical agruments. - In case of a contradiction between BPHS and Prasna Marga(or any other classic), we HAVE to accept BPHS as the ultimate authority; else our entire Jyotish teachings will collapse. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz @ . com Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:29 AM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh, Its sad that You cant take this arguments as they sounds nice and reasonable. So the problem is somewhere else.. Sanjayji in the lecture about diseases takes the division on diseases from Prasna Marga and uses this in Natal. In the same place we do with Badhak and other things. In Pransa Marga are many things which are general in nature - like marriages (also in natal), ashtakavarga, remedies, division of madness etc. Regards, Rafal Gendarz SJC Guru www.rohinaa. com (+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti, Let me start by saying that I am saddened with your response. I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics. If that was to be so, then why do we study them? Is it only for the purpose of selectively quoting from them when it suits our line of argument and dismiss the contrary as irrelevant or unreliable? I am sorry but that is not the way any healthy discussion can be carried out - it just shows "assumed" intellectual arrogance and it is the first step towards decline in learning. And, to me the bottomline is that BPHS is the supreme jyotish fointain-head; every thing else is a commentary or a learning-aid. Unless logically proved other-wise, no dictum or parampara or Guru can over-ride BPHS teachings. I do not have to remind you that " Sri Jagannath Center (SJC) was established in India with the objective of teaching jyotish in the tradition of maharishis like Parasara and Jaimini. " Incidentally, neither you, nor Rafal has offered any logical agrument to contradict what I have quoted. Prasna Marga is just that - applicable only on Prasna - so please do not use it for natal charts. Regards, - Shailesh - Visti Larsen @ . com Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:25 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar Rafal has a point which also answers this question. All bhavas have a root signification and that is why there is one MAIN karaka for each bhava. I.e. we are suffering from the six weaknesses because we could not keep our purity in the past life times. I.e. because we were too prone to anger in this life our anger will be tested. Because we were too attached to money in the past we will be put in situations where taking money can carry serious problems. The root cause is our lack of purity or excess of sin/ripu. Thus MANY MANY classics refer to the sixth bhava by the name 'ripu' and from it we get diseases, accidents, fights, enemies and all the other significations explained by Parasara. These are however the negative indications and are all indicated by Saturn as it is he who carries our dustha karma from many lifetimes and gives it to us in the form of dukha or sorrow. Now you qoute many classics, but mere statistics won't help us. Especially the word 'sin' can have different meanings in sanskrit. Prasna Marga is to my knowledge the only one who has attempted to make this clear differentiation for us when describing the nature of diseases. He states: rogästu dvividhä jïeyä nijägantuvidbhedetaù Translation: Two types of diseases (roga) are to be known. Nija and ä gantu are the two. Harihara later explains that nija is seen from the eighth and fifth houses, whilst agantu is seen from the sixth and badhaka houses. Nija dosha specifically refers to ones OWN karma/dosha. It refers to the bad karma we have caused unto others/the world. Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself For this reason it is taught in the tradition that the eighth lords RASI will show the place of the disease arising out of nija dosha, whereas the sixth lords BHAVA will show the diseases arising out of ones weaknesses/sin. .. I.e. the Rasis show the world/God whilst the bhavas are created by the individual. Deep rooted perspective indeed. I hope the above makes the paramparas perspective much clearer. Karaka literally means: 'kara' acting/doer; 'ka' does. I.e. the one who acts on behalf of another actor/doer. The closest English word is significator. By making the karaka of a house strong you will overcome the issues associated with that house. I.e. If the digestive fire is good (sun) then the health will be perfect (lagna). If you keep celibacy or purity (mars or some say mercury) then the weaknesses will go away (sixth house). But... this is very idealistic. Most people have the sins already and are acting on behalf of them, and really what they need to do is renounce them and be strong enough to carry them before projecting them on others. This act of carrying the sins is that of Saturn and by making Saturn auspicious the native will never see sorrow and easily cross this life. For this reason Saturn acts as a very strong contender for the karakatva of the sixth house, and this is how the tradition treats it. So recite Om Namo Bhagavate Akuparaaya| and be strong to carry your sins. I hope this clarifies everything. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti, You have partly answered the question your self. BPHS mentions 8th house for RIPU and your focus is SHAD-RIPU - provided GC Sharmas version is accurate(as you said); Just as you have mentioned to Tarun - it has to be decided after thorough comparison. So, lets leave that aside for the moment. I will twist your question slightly: is the sixth house confined ONLY to our internal weaknesses (saturn) and the various problems associated with it? Is it right to disregard all other significations of 6 th house and consider only shad-ripus? Please also consider the following - BPHS: Ch. 17. Effects of 6th House 2. Ulcers/Bruises. Should 6ths Lord be in 6th itself, or in Lagna, or 8th, there will be ulcers, or bruises on the body. The RÄÅ›i, becoming 6th House, will lead to the knowledge of the concerned limb. Ch. 19. Effects of 8th House 2. Short Life. Should 8ths Lord join Lagnas Lord, or a malefic and be in 8th itself, the native will be short lived. Ch. 24. Effects of the House Lords 1.Effects of Lagnas Lord in Various Houses If Lagnas Lord is in 6th House and related to a malefic the native will be devoid of physical happiness and will be troubled by enemies, if there is no benefic Aspect. If Lagnas Lord is in 8th House, the native will be an accomplished scholar, be sickly, thievish, be given to much anger, be a gambler and will join others wives 61. Effects of 6ths Lord in Various Houses If 6ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be sickly, famous, inimical to his own men, rich, honourable, adventurous and virtuous. 85. Effects of 8ths Lord in Various Houses If 8ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be devoid of physical felicity and will suffer from wounds. He will be hostile to gods and Brahmins. Satya Jataka The sixth house signifies diseases, troubles from enemies, worries, injuries, litigation, sorrows, maternal uncle, injuries, armies, mental worries and legal involvements. The eighth house signifies longevity, misfortunes, sins, debts, enmity, death, difficulties, impediments, grief and unhappiness resulting from sins committed in previous births, sudden and untimely death and enemies Mars: He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals, mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war, instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin, wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests, bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. Saturn: indicates evil nature, cunningness, impediments, wickedness, servants, mean acts, thieves, old dilapidated houses, bitter fruits, forests, fruits with thick skin, wild flowers, trees full of thorns, bamboos, palmyra trees, margosa trees and wild animals. Daivagyna Vallabha Ill health, bad state, enemies, servants, cruel deeds, heavy actions, witchcraft applied by enemies with an intention of killing enemies, doubts, wars, uncle, buffaloes, diseases, etc. are to be considered from the sixth house. Longevity and enmity, death, ruling powers, strife, quarrels, cleft, quarrels among relatives, hatred, places difficult to approach, fort, destruction of wife and enemies, crossing of rivers etc. are to be seen from the eighth house. In most of the above quotes, sins and similar weaknesses have been associated with 8 th house. Furthermore, Sixth house is part of Artha Trikona – would not a Rajasic planet be a better significator?  Regards,  - Shailesh On 17 Apr 2007 00:45:42 -0700, Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> wrote: हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, Namaskar I checked BPHS and found the translation in line with what you have said. However when analyzing the sanskrit something becomes very prevailent. --sixth house-- mÄtulÄntakaÅ›aá¹kÄnÄá¹ Å›atrÅ«á¹Å›caiva vraṇÄdikÄn| sapalnÄ«mÄtaraá¹ cÄpi á¹£aá¹£á¹habhÄvÄnnirÄ«ká¹£yet||7|| Here the word 'shatru' has been used to indicate the enemies which leaves no doubt that the reference is to enemies. --eighth house-- ÄyÅ« raṇa ripuḥ cÄpi durgaá¹ mï…—tadhanaá¹ tathÄ| gatyanukÄdikaá¹ sarvaá¹ paÅ›yedraá¹dhrÄdvicaká¹£aṇaḥ|| Here Sharma has translated 'ripu' as 'enemies' which is only PARTLY correct. Here are the possible options from Monier Williams:  mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c. As you can see this does not specifically indicate enemy, but rather anyone who can deceive you or USE your weaknesses. Further Sharma does comment that in the Bombay edition of BPHS this sloka doesn't mention enemies at all. Btw. most scripts accept the word 'ripu' as a well known indicator of the sixth house. Parasara has just further shown that this can also be seen in the eighth house which is fine. o Reg. Mars vs. Saturn for the sixth house karakatva o Satyacharya also mentions Saturn whilst Parasara mentions Mars. The question is do we accept that the sixth house shows our internal weaknesses (saturn) and because of these the various problems in life arise. Or do we accept that the sixth house shows our external enemies (Mars)? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chandra Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya ||  Namaste Visti,  Your explanation, of equating 6th house to shad-ripus is not in line with the jyotish principles.  Shad-ripus are six enemies - the enemies within. - or weaknesses  Weakness, and even enmity, is indicated by 8th bhava, not 6th.  As per BPHS: Indications of Ari Bhava. Maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step-mother etc. are to be estimated from Ari Bhava.  Indications of Randhr Bhava. Randhr Bhava indicates longevity, battle, enemies, forts, wealth of the dead and things, that have happened and are to happen (in the past and future births).  Therefore, you are correct is associating Saturn with Shad-ripus, and weaknesses, but do not assign the 6th bhava karakatwa to Saturn.  BPHS assigns it to Mars and we have no reason, or any logical explanation to go against it.  Regards,  - Shailesh @ . com, Visti Larsen <visti wrote: > > ??? ??? ?????? > > Dear Tarun, Namaskar > I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail. > > Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating > themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in winning > great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these weaknesses > are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the > battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth house > is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Madha > and Matsyara. > > A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six rajasic > and tamasic planets to these. > > To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths or > wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword of > prayer is the /brianica/ or rosary and is a vital part of the persons > progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house (prayer) > and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and death/maraka > (7th) from the sixth house of sin. > > The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main karaka for > the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of sin. > Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from others > or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases, fights, > etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems may > arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or kaama > (lust). But, they are all sins. > > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > email: visti <visti@ ... > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > < http://srigaruda.com> > > Tarun wrote: > > > > Dear sir, > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is > > not always correct > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > so on... > > > > Please correct me where i went wrong. > > > > Regards > > > > Tarun > > > > @ . com > > < %40. com>, "~Tarun~" tarun.virgo@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear sir, > > > > > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > > 6th house is the house of satya. > > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ....it is > > not always correct > > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > > if he needs to be courageous then sun > > > if he needs mind to win the disputes > > > > > > so on... > > > > > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Tarun > > > > > > > > > - > > > kishore patnaik > > > vedic astrology@ . com > > < vedic astrology%40g roups.com> ; > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > < % 40. com> ; > > Astro_Remedies@ . com > > < Astro_Remedies%40gro ups.com> ; > > @ . com < %40. com> ; > > lalkitab < lalkitab%40. com> ; > > naastrology@ . com < naastrology%40. com> ; SJC- > > Africa (AT) (DOT) com < Africa%40. com> ; > > @ . com < %40. com> ; > > sohamsa@ ..com < sohamsa%40. com> ; > > Vedic Astrology- Hyderabad > > < Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad% 40. com> > > > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house > > > > > > > > > dear all, > > > > > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha > > mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence, > > for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a > > word document and am enclosing it here. > > > > > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this > > topic in this group. > > > > > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have > > missed on any message in this thread. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > >  -- Shailesh C Chadha #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®       (Cell) +91 984 999 4837 ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE. ____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, I think no useful purpose is going to be served by going through the classics. You have very clearly expressed your total disregard for the sastras when you replied to Upenrda saying: << I repeat once again, there is (1) sastra and (2) parampara. Being in SJC means that You accept the teachings of the tradition. If thats the teaching of the tradition it must be accepted and THEN you must change Your perspective and with this new vision look at sastra's or seek the explanation and discuss these points. If You do the opposite then its not the parampara anymore as then the hierarchy id disturbed. If Sanjayji says its Sani, then what I can do with my understanding of sanksrit, classics and all that - that demands a real study which can take Your ten years, I put weightage to my time and the Guru gives shortcuts in our way to Jyotish which normally takes few lifetimes. Of course there are some people which question Sanjayji words and follow own opinion, thats their way of understanding.>> And let me make it clear - you have no respect for Sanjay ji's words either. Sarbani, and others, have given extensive quotes in the past from COVA and various papers of Sanjay ji where he has clearly mentioned as Mars to be the Karaka for 6th house. But, unfortunately, you are fixated on what you and Visti say was mentioned by Sanjay ji in Serbia. At that point of time, you and Visti diverted the discussion to Shad-ripus. Then, when I produced qoutes and arguments to show that shad-ripus are in the domain of 8th house, you say that you are not interested in shad-ripus. What exactly do you want to prove? Are you aware that Parampara and Guru are to take one to the path of truth, not to negate the truth. Where sastras are silent, Parampara and Guru are paramount. But where Sastras are clear and specific, no Parampara or Guru can, or should, go against it. In such a case, if it cannot be proved that the sastras are corrupted, one may have to conlude that the teachings of such a Guru or Parampara are flawed. Can any one in these lists doubt the sincerety of Narsimha Rao to SJC. Yet, can you recall how many times he has questioned Sanjay ji and persisted till he received the correct explanation? Not that I equate my self to Narsimha but I do intend to be a true seeker of knowledge and truth. In Indian traditions, that is what we are taught. Now, it is up to you to decide whether you are a seeker of truth or a blind-follower. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:18 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsnaDear Shailesh,Yes...so to conclude we have two things to do (1) seek further in classics (2) ask Sanjayji for explanation..I dont have any more arguments here.Regards,Rafal GendarzSJC Guruwww.rohinaa.com(+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, Lets forget the unpleasantness and take this discussion forward in a healthy and meaningful way. Ultimately, we are here to learn and thats what our focus should be. Please also understand that I have the utmost respect for my Guru and I am sure no true Guru will purposely teach what is wrong. And, the highest of the Gurus have always encouraged their shishyas to go out and seek the truth, they too accept that they are human and are always ready to acknowledge their errors. If Sanjay ji has changed his view-point from what he has mentioned in COVA and elsewhere, he should have a good reason for the same and he has to reveal the same. Till such time, I suggest we go with the classics. And there are very strong reasons to do so, as I have mentioned in my mails to Visti and Upendra has, in his latest mail. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:15 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsnaDear Shailesh,Yes, its all depends on Pranamas we accept. For our logic the anumana is important and for our faith the sabda element is important, I recognized that You respect the logic in the big way. I do the same but in the different proportion, therefore for me it was weird that Sanjayji words are not final. Therefore there is big benefit to Your discusion with sanskrit terms, philosophy of enemies vs flaws and all that, but if we dont accept authority of Guru then I dont see the difference between parampara and open forums in the western world where the hierarchy of pranama is completely different. Dont take me as blindsided, dogmatic - its simply the issue of proportion.I had no intention to put bad emotion or low standart of discussion so forgive me any bad usage of words.Regards,Rafal GendarzSJC Guruwww.rohinaa.com(+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Rafal, Agreed to all your points - except: - It is wrong to say I cannot take agruements; I am open to all reasonable and logical agruments. - In case of a contradiction between BPHS and Prasna Marga(or any other classic), we HAVE to accept BPHS as the ultimate authority; else our entire Jyotish teachings will collapse. Regards, - Shailesh - Rafal Gendarz Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:29 AM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house hare rama krsna Dear Shailesh,Its sad that You cant take this arguments as they sounds nice and reasonable. So the problem is somewhere else..Sanjayji in the lecture about diseases takes the division on diseases from Prasna Marga and uses this in Natal. In the same place we do with Badhak and other things. In Pransa Marga are many things which are general in nature - like marriages (also in natal), ashtakavarga, remedies, division of madness etc.Regards,Rafal GendarzSJC Guruwww.rohinaa. com(+48) 503 44 18 18 Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a):  || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, Let me start by saying that I am saddened with your response. I do not expect a SJC guru to brush-off some very relevant quotes from classics as mere statistics. If that was to be so, then why do we study them? Is it only for the purpose of selectively quoting from them when it suits our line of argument and dismiss the contrary as irrelevant or unreliable? I am sorry but that is not the way any healthy discussion can be carried out - it just shows "assumed" intellectual arrogance and it is the first step towards decline in learning. And, to me the bottomline is that BPHS is the supreme jyotish fointain-head; every thing else is a commentary or a learning-aid. Unless logically proved other-wise, no dictum or parampara or Guru can over-ride BPHS teachings. I do not have to remind you that " Sri Jagannath Center (SJC) was established in India with the objective of teaching jyotish in the tradition of maharishis like Parasara and Jaimini. " Incidentally, neither you, nor Rafal has offered any logical agrument to contradict what I have quoted. Prasna Marga is just that - applicable only on Prasna - so please do not use it for natal charts. Regards, - Shailesh - Visti Larsen Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:25 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Karaka for sixth house हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, NamaskarRafal has a point which also answers this question. All bhavas have a root signification and that is why there is one MAIN karaka for each bhava. I.e. we are suffering from the six weaknesses because we could not keep our purity in the past life times. I.e. because we were too prone to anger in this life our anger will be tested. Because we were too attached to money in the past we will be put in situations where taking money can carry serious problems. The root cause is our lack of purity or excess of sin/ripu. Thus MANY MANY classics refer to the sixth bhava by the name 'ripu' and from it we get diseases, accidents, fights, enemies and all the other significations explained by Parasara. These are however the negative indications and are all indicated by Saturn as it is he who carries our dustha karma from many lifetimes and gives it to us in the form of dukha or sorrow. Now you qoute many classics, but mere statistics won't help us. Especially the word 'sin' can have different meanings in sanskrit. Prasna Marga is to my knowledge the only one who has attempted to make this clear differentiation for us when describing the nature of diseases. He states: rogästu dvividhä jïeyä nijägantuvidbhedetaù Translation: Two types of diseases (roga) are to be known. Nija and ä gantu are the two.Harihara later explains that nija is seen from the eighth and fifth houses, whilst agantu is seen from the sixth and badhaka houses. Nija dosha specifically refers to ones OWN karma/dosha. It refers to the bad karma we have caused unto others/the world.Agantuka refers to the karma caused upon oneself... i.e. how you treated yourself For this reason it is taught in the tradition that the eighth lords RASI will show the place of the disease arising out of nija dosha, whereas the sixth lords BHAVA will show the diseases arising out of ones weaknesses/sin. .. I.e. the Rasis show the world/God whilst the bhavas are created by the individual. Deep rooted perspective indeed. I hope the above makes the paramparas perspective much clearer.Karaka literally means: 'kara' acting/doer; 'ka' does. I.e. the one who acts on behalf of another actor/doer. The closest English word is significator. By making the karaka of a house strong you will overcome the issues associated with that house. I.e. If the digestive fire is good (sun) then the health will be perfect (lagna). If you keep celibacy or purity (mars or some say mercury) then the weaknesses will go away (sixth house). But... this is very idealistic. Most people have the sins already and are acting on behalf of them, and really what they need to do is renounce them and be strong enough to carry them before projecting them on others. This act of carrying the sins is that of Saturn and by making Saturn auspicious the native will never see sorrow and easily cross this life. For this reason Saturn acts as a very strong contender for the karakatva of the sixth house, and this is how the tradition treats it. So recite Om Namo Bhagavate Akuparaaya| and be strong to carry your sins.I hope this clarifies everything. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC GuruJaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) comFor consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, You have partly answered the question your self. BPHS mentions 8th house for RIPU and your focus is SHAD-RIPU - provided GC Sharmas version is accurate(as you said); Just as you have mentioned to Tarun - it has to be decided after thorough comparison. So, lets leave that aside for the moment. I will twist your question slightly: is the sixth house confined ONLY to our internal weaknesses (saturn) and the various problems associated with it? Is it right to disregard all other significations of 6 th house and consider only shad-ripus? Please also consider the following - BPHS: Ch. 17. Effects of 6th House2. Ulcers/Bruises. Should 6ths Lord be in 6th itself, or in Lagna, or 8th, there will be ulcers, or bruises on the body. The RÄÅ›i, becoming 6th House, will lead to the knowledge of the concerned limb. Ch. 19. Effects of 8th House 2. Short Life. Should 8ths Lord join Lagnas Lord, or a malefic and be in 8th itself, the native will be short lived. Ch. 24. Effects of the House Lords 1.Effects of Lagnas Lord in Various Houses If Lagnas Lord is in 6th House and related to a malefic the native will be devoid of physical happiness and will be troubled by enemies, if there is no benefic Aspect. If Lagnas Lord is in 8th House, the native will be an accomplished scholar, be sickly, thievish, be given to much anger, be a gambler and will join others wives 61. Effects of 6ths Lord in Various Houses If 6ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be sickly, famous, inimical to his own men, rich, honourable, adventurous and virtuous. 85. Effects of 8ths Lord in Various Houses If 8ths Lord is in 1st House, the native will be devoid of physical felicity and will suffer from wounds. He will be hostile to gods and Brahmins. Satya Jataka The sixth house signifies diseases, troubles from enemies, worries, injuries, litigation, sorrows, maternal uncle, injuries, armies, mental worries and legal involvements. The eighth house signifies longevity, misfortunes, sins, debts, enmity, death, difficulties, impediments, grief and unhappiness resulting from sins committed in previous births, sudden and untimely death and enemies Mars: He represents thick red colour, fire, bricks, power, thorny trees, wild animals, mosquitoes, bugs, sheep, bones, brothers, lands, houses, anger, war, instruments, thieves, marrow of the bone, bitter taste, energy, prowess, sin, wounds, battles, enemies, daring acts, cruelty and torture, roaming in forests, bronze, golden waist-string, pomp and show and a house on fire. Saturn: indicates evil nature, cunningness, impediments, wickedness, servants, mean acts, thieves, old dilapidated houses, bitter fruits, forests, fruits with thick skin, wild flowers, trees full of thorns, bamboos, palmyra trees, margosa trees and wild animals. Daivagyna Vallabha Ill health, bad state, enemies, servants, cruel deeds, heavy actions, witchcraft applied by enemies with an intention of killing enemies, doubts, wars, uncle, buffaloes, diseases, etc. are to be considered from the sixth house. Longevity and enmity, death, ruling powers, strife, quarrels, cleft, quarrels among relatives, hatred, places difficult to approach, fort, destruction of wife and enemies, crossing of rivers etc. are to be seen from the eighth house. In most of the above quotes, sins and similar weaknesses have been associated with 8 th house. Furthermore, Sixth house is part of Artha Trikona – would not a Rajasic planet be a better significator? Regards, - Shailesh On 17 Apr 2007 00:45:42 -0700, Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> wrote: हरे राम कृषà¥à¤£à¥¥ Dear Shailesh, NamaskarI checked BPHS and found the translation in line with what you have said. However when analyzing the sanskrit something becomes very prevailent.--sixth house--mÄtulÄntakaÅ›aá¹kÄnÄá¹ Å›atrÅ«á¹Å›caiva vraṇÄdikÄn| sapalnÄ«mÄtaraá¹ cÄpi á¹£aá¹£á¹habhÄvÄnnirÄ«ká¹£yet||7|| Here the word 'shatru' has been used to indicate the enemies which leaves no doubt that the reference is to enemies. --eighth house--ÄyÅ« raṇa ripuḥ cÄpi durgaá¹ mï…—tadhanaá¹ tathÄ|gatyanukÄdikaá¹ sarvaá¹ paÅ›yedraá¹dhrÄdvicaká¹£aṇaḥ|| Here Sharma has translated 'ripu' as 'enemies' which is only PARTLY correct. Here are the possible options from Monier Williams: mfn. deceitful , treacherous , false RV. m. a deceiver , cheat , rogue ib. an enemy , adversary , foe Mn. MBh. & c. As you can see this does not specifically indicate enemy, but rather anyone who can deceive you or USE your weaknesses. Further Sharma does comment that in the Bombay edition of BPHS this sloka doesn't mention enemies at all. Btw. most scripts accept the word 'ripu' as a well known indicator of the sixth house. Parasara has just further shown that this can also be seen in the eighth house which is fine. o Reg. Mars vs. Saturn for the sixth house karakatva oSatyacharya also mentions Saturn whilst Parasara mentions Mars. The question is do we accept that the sixth house shows our internal weaknesses (saturn) and because of these the various problems in life arise. Or do we accept that the sixth house shows our external enemies (Mars)? Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC GuruJaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) comFor consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda. com Shailesh Chandra Chadha wrote: || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Narayanaya || Namaste Visti, Your explanation, of equating 6th house to shad-ripus is not in line with the jyotish principles. Shad-ripus are six enemies - the enemies within. - or weaknesses Weakness, and even enmity, is indicated by 8th bhava, not 6th. As per BPHS: Indications of Ari Bhava. Maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step-mother etc. are to be estimated from Ari Bhava. Indications of Randhr Bhava. Randhr Bhava indicates longevity, battle, enemies, forts, wealth of the dead and things, that have happened and are to happen (in the past and future births). Therefore, you are correct is associating Saturn with Shad-ripus, and weaknesses, but do not assign the 6th bhava karakatwa to Saturn. BPHS assigns it to Mars and we have no reason, or any logical explanation to go against it. Regards, - Shailesh , Visti Larsen <visti wrote:>> ??? ??? ??????> > Dear Tarun, Namaskar> I have just come home from Serbia and saw your mail.> > Some words from the Serbian Orthodox priests have been repeating > themselves in my mind. The greatest sign of strength is not in winning > great battles but in overcoming our own weaknesses. And these weaknesses > are those which compell us to incur sin. The main cause of all the > battles, addictions, and other weaknesses arising from the sixth house > is ripu or sin. There are six sins: Kaama, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Madha > and Matsyara.> > A good excercise is to look them up and asign one among the six rajasic > and tamasic planets to these.> > To overcome these the Orthodox church advises two necessary paths or > wings to 'fly' to God: 1) Fasting and 2) praying. The weapon/sword of > prayer is the /brianica/ or rosary and is a vital part of the persons > progression away from the sixth house. So also the 5th house (prayer) > and 12th house (fasting) are the houses of loss (12th) and death/maraka > (7th) from the sixth house of sin.> > The main cause of sin is SATURN, and for this reason the main karaka for > the sixth is Saturn. The sub-karakas are dependant on the type of sin. > Mars causes krodha or anger, and as a result of anger coming from others > or the native themself the native gets into battles, courtcases, fights, > etc... all this is Mars. Its a separate issue that these problems may > arise or be instigated by the other sins such as lobha (greed) or kaama > (lust). But, they are all sins.> > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> Jaimini SJC - Denmark> email: visti <visti@ ...> For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > < http://srigaruda.com>> > Tarun wrote:> >> > Dear sir,> >> > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too.> > 6th house is the house of satya. > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is> > not always correct> > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn.> > if person has to fight in battle then mars > > if he needs to be courageous then sun> > if he needs mind to win the disputes> >> > so on...> >> > Please correct me where i went wrong.> >> > Regards > >> > Tarun> >> > > > < %40. com>, "~Tarun~" tarun.virgo@> > wrote:> > >> > > Dear sir,> > >> > > Karak for sixth house depends on condition of the native too. > > > 6th house is the house of satya.> > > because if we only think the SURVIVAL of FITTEST theory ...it is> > not always correct> > > so in my view if person has to go to courts then saturn. > > > if person has to fight in battle then mars> > > if he needs to be courageous then sun> > > if he needs mind to win the disputes> > >> > > so on...> > >> > > Tarun correct me where i went wrong.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Tarun> > >> > >> > > - > > > kishore patnaik> > > vedic astrology > > < vedic astrology%40g roups.com> ;> > ancient_indian_ astrology > > < % 40. com> ;> > Astro_Remedies > > < Astro_Remedies%40gro ups.com> ; > > < %40. com> ;> > lalkitab < lalkitab%40. com> ; > > naastrology < naastrology%40. com> ; SJC-> > Africa < Africa%40. com> ; > > < %40. com> ;> > sohamsa@ .com < sohamsa%40. com> ; > > Vedic Astrology- Hyderabad > > < Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad% 40. com>> > > Monday, April 16, 2007 10:57 PM> > > [Om Krishna Guru] Karaka for sixth house> > >> > >> > > dear all,> > >> > > there was an interesting topic going on right now in varaha> > mihira group Many of us are not members in this group and hence,> > for their benefit, I have copied and pasted all the messages into a > > word document and am enclosing it here.> > >> > > I am sure the members will start an interesting thread on this> > topic in this group.> > >> > > Members of Varaha mihira group may kindly cross check if i have > > missed on any message in this thread.> > >> > >> > > regards,> > >> > > kishore patnaik> > >> >> >> -- Shailesh C Chadha#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIATel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ® (Cell) +91 984 999 4837____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.____________ _________ _________ __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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