Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Hi Tom Great question and thanks for the Sepharial reference, of which I was unaware. You cite April 22, "1902" but I suspect Sepharial intends April 22, "1903". Please clarify if you can. However, in the mean time: Sepharial's chart, at the least, raises what I term a methodological empirical question. Here he appears to represent as radix-determinative the re-location of the NYSE to its present lower Manhattan premises, which property fronts Broad and Wall Streets. Although I'd rather not challenge the eminent authority of Sepharial, there's good reason to doubt that this event of April 22, 1903 constitutes a re-incarnate moment for the NYSE. Now having raised this doubt, I'll listen closely to a reasoned argument in defense of a 11:20 a.m chart for this day in NYC. After all, I've been a student of the anthroposophical science of Rudolf Steiner these past 40 years, so a posited re-incarnation of this sort, if it be so, isn't one I would hastily dismiss. Background reference: On April 22, 1903 the NYSE moved into its new and still current quarters at 18 Broad Street, in lower Manhattan. The new trading floor, still in use today, was then 60 percent larger than the previous floor. The 1903 new trading floor featured 16 trading posts, 500 telephones, annunciator boards, a gilded ceiling and huge window walls. Also at this time modern technology was adopted in the form of a shiny, electrically induced bell to ring open and close to a given trading session. Edmund C. Stedman, THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE (1905), in which pp. 495-507 one finds the March 1902, Constitution and Rules for the Government of the NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE. This constitution, the last major revisions for the NYSE, before the Rules of the Game were nationalized by the Securities and Exchange Act of 1935 in the aftermath of the horrific 1929 market crash. (And 82 years after the establishment of the stile: NEW YORK STOCK EXCANGE.] tom <gwizitsfree wrote: John, Many thanks for this. Have you any observations asto validity of Sepharial's 4/22/1902 11:20 am NYC?Thank you for your contributions, they are invaluable.Tom--- JohnTWB <first_july_1776 wrote:> > THE MYTH OF MAY 17, 1792 > > The actual birth of New York City's first public> securities exchange association took place on> September 01, 1791 [as further discussed in the> following section]. This 1791 event constitutes the> actual birth of the precursor of what became, in> registered name, the "NYSE", on January 29, 1863.> This 1791 birth event arrived 9 months earlier, and> in telling contrast to the more limited and> nefarious purposed May 17, 1792 "Under the> Buttonwood" event, which event has been celebrated,> and unstintingly promoted, by NYSE House historians> as "The NYSE Birthday." So too has this potted> history been widely acknowledged as such among most> if not all financial astrologers. Americans seem> addicted to their own home-grown mythologies. As if> this never published May 17, 1792 price-fixing> scheme, illegal under the laws of the State of> NewYork of 1792, might ever be compared favorably to> the relative comprehensiveness of the 14 resolutions> formalized by the Stock Dealers' Association's> published Broadside of September 01, 1791. Even a> cursory comparative review, if only of the form of> the two documents, should confirm the actual nature> of the Buttonwood event as nothing more than a> partisan and illegal get-rich-quick scheme connived> in by New York Federalist Party cronies of Alexander> Hamilton, all feeding and fattening at the public> trough. The backers and heirs of the September 1st> Exchange Association finally at long last regained> control of what became in 1820 New York City's first> in-house stock exchange, as evidenced by the> Constitution of February 21, 1820, which they> sponsored. This Constitution was not amended until> March 1902; it remains in force today,> notwithstanding further amending fostered by the> rise of federal regulations from 1935 and after. > > STOCKS DEALERS' GOVERNANCE, 14 RULES ADOPTED: New> York City, September 01, 1791 > > From the start, New York was the center of> speculation and active trading. Initially,> securities were sold at public indoor and outdoor> auctions. Following on Alexander Hamilton’s Treasury> Department policy measures on debt [= "stocks"], and> the Bank of the United States, the increasing> volumes of stocks trading undoubtedly attracted new> players into these fledgling markets ---> auctioneers, brokers, dealers, and investors.> Increasing trading activity and more market players> created new problems of trust and the honoring of> contracts, even in this very small town that was the> Wall Street community in the 1790s. Since the> securities business was relatively new, the legal> status of the business was unclear. Given these> circumstances, groups of players soon considered> ways to regulate themselves. One such group met at> the Merchants Coffee House "agreed to be governed"> by a set of 14 Trading Rules of Practice, first put> forth by the group's leading dealers, brokers, and> auctioneers, who signed a publishable broadside on> a Thursday, September 01, 1791. These were market> practice Rules as standards governing stock trading> by its members that were later printed and> distributed for the public record, in broadside> documentary form. > > More specifically: the 14 Rules of Governance> dealt practically with such operating matters as> contract enforcement and the provision of sanctions> for events of default on traded contracts. Moreover,> the Rules appear to have embodied what was then> understood to be the functional separation of> brokers from dealers/jobbers, standardized by> British auctions practice. For example, one Rule> prohibits the auctioneer from trading for his own> account, a prohibition observed in the industry> trading practice today. However, a number of other> practices were to prove subsequently without lasting> institutional effect, because the typical volumes> traded during this early period of economic> development had not yet reached a minimum threshold> of activity necessary to sustain them over the long> run, Local markets' practice in a number of ways> eventually reverted to a former pattern. Within just> a decade, one Wall Street market leader since long> forgotten by history, Nathaniel Prime> [that's the Mr. "Prime" of the eponymous bankers'> "Prime" Rate] acted as both dealer/jobber and broker> in Wall Street stock trading. Acting at variance> with the British practice, Mr. Prime combined the> two functions, which the experts tell us carries the> benefits of added liquidity to thin markets, which> was the chronic condition of these markets during> this period in American history. > > [P.S.: The establishment of New York City's Stock> Dealers Association is formally recorded in the> original copy of the 14 adopted Resolutions of that> day, published as the September 01, 1791 Broadside,> long since archived. See the facsimile reproduced in> Walter Werner & Steven T. Smith, WALL STREET [(New> York: Columbia Univ. Press, 1991), see appendix C,> pp. 190-191], and by the way, a misleadingly> entitled book this turns out to be, given the> scholarly nature of the summarization of Werner's> rigorous appraisals of the historiography of early> American corporations. Also see: Stuart Banner, who> has maintained that the Association's Broadside is> the historic first evidence of self-regulation by> stock traders in America, in his ANGLO-AMERICAN> SECURITIES REGULATION: Cultural and Political Roots,> 1690-1860 (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press,> 1998), 250-51.] > > [P.S.: Modern histories of Wall Street and the> Stock Exchange appear to skate by the small-bone> facts of record, the historical detail often> relevant to the interests of mundane astrologers. So> especially to be recommended as indispensible, these> two classic historical reference works: [01] Edmund> C.Stedman, THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE (1905), in> which pp. 63-66 one finds a transcript of the, long> thought lost irretrievably, preliminary Constitution> of 1817 (over its 3 years life found unworkable; the> original recovered from the attic of a private> residence in Newark, NJ, in 1900, 118 years later.> And in which pp. 495-507 one finds the March 1902,> Constitution and Rules for the Government of the NEW> YORK STOCK EXCHANGE. This constitution, the last> major revisions for the NYSE, before the Rules of> the Game were nationalized by the Securities and> Exchange Act of 1935 in the aftermath of the> horrific 1929 market crash. (And 82 years after the> establishment of the stile: NEW> YORK STOCK EXCANGE.] Also: [02] Francis L. Eames,> THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE (1894), in which pp.> 13-16 one finds a facsimile of the Buttonwood> Agreement of May 17,1792; and in which pp. 19-26,> the transcript of the Constitution of the New York> Stock and Exchange Board, February 21, 1820. > > > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+> countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger withVoice. How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 my error, it is 1903. the account of the beginning of trading there is from an old newspaper noting 11:20am after dedication speeches. this comes of course from his " arcana " . it does complicate the process, doesn't it. what about every new trading room in chicago, tokyo, and london? all the best and thanks again for everyones contribution. tom --- JohnTWB <first_july_1776 wrote: > Hi Tom > > Great question and thanks for the Sepharial > reference, of which I was unaware. You cite April > 22, " 1902 " but I suspect Sepharial intends April 22, > " 1903 " . Please clarify if you can. However, in the > mean time: > > Sepharial's chart, at the least, raises what I > term a methodological empirical question. Here he > appears to represent as radix-determinative the > re-location of the NYSE to its present lower > Manhattan premises, which property fronts Broad and > Wall Streets. > > Although I'd rather not challenge the eminent > authority of Sepharial, there's good reason to doubt > that this event of April 22, 1903 constitutes a > re-incarnate moment for the NYSE. Now having raised > this doubt, I'll listen closely to a reasoned > argument in defense of a 11:20 a.m chart for this > day in NYC. After all, I've been a student of the > anthroposophical science of Rudolf Steiner these > past 40 years, so a posited re-incarnation of this > sort, if it be so, isn't one I would hastily > dismiss. > > Background reference: On April 22, 1903 the NYSE > moved into its new and still current quarters at 18 > Broad Street, in lower Manhattan. The new trading > floor, still in use today, was then 60 percent > larger than the previous floor. The 1903 new trading > floor featured 16 trading posts, 500 telephones, > annunciator boards, a gilded ceiling and huge window > walls. Also at this time modern technology was > adopted in the form of a shiny, electrically induced > bell to ring open and close to a given trading > session. > > Edmund C. Stedman, THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE > (1905), in which pp. 495-507 one finds the March > 1902, Constitution and Rules for the Government of > the NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE. This constitution, the > last major revisions for the NYSE, before the Rules > of the Game were nationalized by the Securities and > Exchange Act of 1935 in the aftermath of the > horrific 1929 market crash. (And 82 years after the > establishment of the stile: NEW YORK STOCK EXCANGE.] > > > > tom <gwizitsfree wrote: John, > Many thanks for this. Have you any observations as > to validity of Sepharial's 4/22/1902 11:20 am NYC? > Thank you for your contributions, they are > invaluable. > Tom > > > > --- JohnTWB <first_july_1776 wrote: > > > > > THE MYTH OF MAY 17, 1792 > > > > The actual birth of New York City's first public > > securities exchange association took place on > > September 01, 1791 [as further discussed in the > > following section]. This 1791 event constitutes > the > > actual birth of the precursor of what became, in > > registered name, the " NYSE " , on January 29, 1863. > > This 1791 birth event arrived 9 months earlier, > and > > in telling contrast to the more limited and > > nefarious purposed May 17, 1792 " Under the > > Buttonwood " event, which event has been > celebrated, > > and unstintingly promoted, by NYSE House > historians > > as " The NYSE Birthday. " So too has this potted > > history been widely acknowledged as such among > most > > if not all financial astrologers. Americans seem > > addicted to their own home-grown mythologies. As > if > > this never published May 17, 1792 price-fixing > > scheme, illegal under the laws of the State of > > NewYork of 1792, might ever be compared favorably > to > > the relative comprehensiveness of the 14 > resolutions > > formalized by the Stock Dealers' Association's > > published Broadside of September 01, 1791. Even a > > cursory comparative review, if only of the form of > > the two documents, should confirm the actual > nature > > of the Buttonwood event as nothing more than a > > partisan and illegal get-rich-quick scheme > connived > > in by New York Federalist Party cronies of > Alexander > > Hamilton, all feeding and fattening at the public > > trough. The backers and heirs of the September 1st > > Exchange Association finally at long last regained > > control of what became in 1820 New York City's > first > > in-house stock exchange, as evidenced by the > > Constitution of February 21, 1820, which they > > sponsored. This Constitution was not amended until > > March 1902; it remains in force today, > > notwithstanding further amending fostered by the > > rise of federal regulations from 1935 and after. > > > > STOCKS DEALERS' GOVERNANCE, 14 RULES ADOPTED: > New > > York City, September 01, 1791 > > > > From the start, New York was the center of > > speculation and active trading. Initially, > > securities were sold at public indoor and outdoor > > auctions. Following on Alexander Hamilton’s > Treasury > > Department policy measures on debt [= " stocks " ], > and > > the Bank of the United States, the increasing > > volumes of stocks trading undoubtedly attracted > new > > players into these fledgling markets --- > > auctioneers, brokers, dealers, and investors. > > Increasing trading activity and more market > players > > created new problems of trust and the honoring of > > contracts, even in this very small town that was > the > > Wall Street community in the 1790s. Since the > > securities business was relatively new, the legal > > status of the business was unclear. Given these > > circumstances, groups of players soon considered > > ways to regulate themselves. One such group met at > > the Merchants Coffee House " agreed to be governed " > > by a set of 14 Trading Rules of Practice, first > put > > forth by the group's leading dealers, brokers, and > > auctioneers, who signed a publishable broadside > on > > a Thursday, September 01, 1791. These were market > > practice Rules as standards governing stock > trading > > by its members that were later printed and > > distributed for the public record, in broadside > > documentary form. > > > > More specifically: the 14 Rules of Governance > > dealt practically with such operating matters as > > contract enforcement and the provision of > sanctions > > for events of default on traded contracts. > Moreover, > > the Rules appear to have embodied what was then > > understood to be the functional separation of > > brokers from dealers/jobbers, standardized by > > British auctions practice. For example, one Rule > > prohibits the auctioneer from trading for his own > > account, a prohibition observed in the industry > > trading practice today. However, a number of other > > practices were to prove subsequently without > lasting > > institutional effect, because the typical volumes > > traded during this early period of economic > > development had not yet reached a minimum > threshold > > of activity necessary to sustain them over the > long > > run, Local markets' practice in a number of ways > > eventually reverted to a former pattern. Within > just > > a decade, one Wall Street market leader since long > > forgotten by history, Nathaniel Prime > > [that's the Mr. " Prime " of the eponymous bankers' > > " Prime " Rate] acted as both dealer/jobber and > broker > > in Wall Street stock trading. Acting at variance > > with the British practice, Mr. Prime combined the > > two functions, which the experts tell us carries > the > > benefits of added liquidity to thin markets, which > > was the chronic condition of these markets during > > this period in American history. > > > > [P.S.: The establishment of New York City's > Stock > > Dealers Association is formally recorded in the > > original copy of the 14 adopted Resolutions of > that > > day, published as the September 01, 1791 > Broadside, > > long since archived. See the facsimile reproduced > in > > Walter Werner & Steven T. Smith, WALL STREET [(New > > York: Columbia Univ. Press, 1991), see appendix C, > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Hi Tom, Great follow-up !!! Annoyingly for the inquiring astrologer, the Stedman book (1905) goes on to describe at some length the dedication ceremonies that morning. BUT NO TIME MOMENT MENTIONED. Arghhh !!! Thanks for that newspaper report. That's really NEWS. About the event's significance, I suspect a chart cast for April 22,1903 @ 11:20 a.m. will only tell a story about the fate of the physical presence of the NYSE at that location. I.E., about the soul of the building, not about the soul of the trading business, which search for that source should, I think, necessarily take us back to February 21, 1820 [the Constitution of the Exchange and its establishment after the 3 year debacle of the lower Manhattan yellow fever epidemic.] And finally to September 1, 1791 [the Association's establishment, which long pre-dated the establishment of the Exchange, strickly understood, between 1791 and 1820, as formally "un-organized" (but not to be confused with "dis-organized")]. The respective efficacies of the chart for February 21, 1820 versus that for September 1, 1791 is for me purely an empirical question. Cheers, JOHNtom <gwizitsfree wrote: my error, it is 1903. the account of the beginningof trading there is from an old newspaper noting11:20am after dedication speeches. this comes ofcourse from his "arcana".it does complicate the process, doesn't it. whatabout every new trading room in chicago, tokyo, andlondon? all the best and thanks again for everyonescontribution.tom--- JohnTWB <first_july_1776 wrote:> Hi Tom> > Great question and thanks for the Sepharial> reference, of which I was unaware. You cite April> 22, "1902" but I suspect Sepharial intends April 22,> "1903". Please clarify if you can. However, in the> mean time:> > Sepharial's chart, at the least, raises what I> term a methodological empirical question. Here he> appears to represent as radix-determinative the> re-location of the NYSE to its present lower> Manhattan premises, which property fronts Broad and> Wall Streets. > > Although I'd rather not challenge the eminent> authority of Sepharial, there's good reason to doubt> that this event of April 22, 1903 constitutes a> re-incarnate moment for the NYSE. Now having raised> this doubt, I'll listen closely to a reasoned> argument in defense of a 11:20 a.m chart for this> day in NYC. After all, I've been a student of the> anthroposophical science of Rudolf Steiner these> past 40 years, so a posited re-incarnation of this> sort, if it be so, isn't one I would hastily> dismiss.> > Background reference: On April 22, 1903 the NYSE> moved into its new and still current quarters at 18> Broad Street, in lower Manhattan. The new trading> floor, still in use today, was then 60 percent> larger than the previous floor. The 1903 new trading> floor featured 16 trading posts, 500 telephones,> annunciator boards, a gilded ceiling and huge window> walls. Also at this time modern technology was> adopted in the form of a shiny, electrically induced> bell to ring open and close to a given trading> session. > > Edmund C. Stedman, THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE> (1905), in which pp. 495-507 one finds the March> 1902, Constitution and Rules for the Government of> the NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE. This constitution, the> last major revisions for the NYSE, before the Rules> of the Game were nationalized by the Securities and> Exchange Act of 1935 in the aftermath of the> horrific 1929 market crash. (And 82 years after the> establishment of the stile: NEW YORK STOCK EXCANGE.]> > > > tom <gwizitsfree wrote: John, > Many thanks for this. Have you any observations as> to validity of Sepharial's 4/22/1902 11:20 am NYC?> Thank you for your contributions, they are> invaluable.> Tom> > > > --- JohnTWB <first_july_1776 wrote:> > > > > THE MYTH OF MAY 17, 1792 > > > > The actual birth of New York City's first public> > securities exchange association took place on> > September 01, 1791 [as further discussed in the> > following section]. This 1791 event constitutes> the> > actual birth of the precursor of what became, in> > registered name, the "NYSE", on January 29, 1863.> > This 1791 birth event arrived 9 months earlier,> and> > in telling contrast to the more limited and> > nefarious purposed May 17, 1792 "Under the> > Buttonwood" event, which event has been> celebrated,> > and unstintingly promoted, by NYSE House> historians> > as "The NYSE Birthday." So too has this potted> > history been widely acknowledged as such among> most> > if not all financial astrologers. Americans seem> > addicted to their own home-grown mythologies. As> if> > this never published May 17, 1792 price-fixing> > scheme, illegal under the laws of the State of> > NewYork of 1792, might ever be compared favorably> to> > the relative comprehensiveness of the 14> resolutions> > formalized by the Stock Dealers' Association's> > published Broadside of September 01, 1791. Even a> > cursory comparative review, if only of the form of> > the two documents, should confirm the actual> nature> > of the Buttonwood event as nothing more than a> > partisan and illegal get-rich-quick scheme> connived> > in by New York Federalist Party cronies of> Alexander> > Hamilton, all feeding and fattening at the public> > trough. The backers and heirs of the September 1st> > Exchange Association finally at long last regained> > control of what became in 1820 New York City's> first> > in-house stock exchange, as evidenced by the> > Constitution of February 21, 1820, which they> > sponsored. This Constitution was not amended until> > March 1902; it remains in force today,> > notwithstanding further amending fostered by the> > rise of federal regulations from 1935 and after. > > > > STOCKS DEALERS' GOVERNANCE, 14 RULES ADOPTED:> New> > York City, September 01, 1791 > > > > From the start, New York was the center of> > speculation and active trading. Initially,> > securities were sold at public indoor and outdoor> > auctions. Following on Alexander Hamilton’s> Treasury> > Department policy measures on debt [= "stocks"],> and> > the Bank of the United States, the increasing> > volumes of stocks trading undoubtedly attracted> new> > players into these fledgling markets ---> > auctioneers, brokers, dealers, and investors.> > Increasing trading activity and more market> players> > created new problems of trust and the honoring of> > contracts, even in this very small town that was> the> > Wall Street community in the 1790s. Since the> > securities business was relatively new, the legal> > status of the business was unclear. Given these> > circumstances, groups of players soon considered> > ways to regulate themselves. One such group met at> > the Merchants Coffee House "agreed to be governed"> > by a set of 14 Trading Rules of Practice, first> put> > forth by the group's leading dealers, brokers, and> > auctioneers, who signed a publishable broadside> on> > a Thursday, September 01, 1791. These were market> > practice Rules as standards governing stock> trading> > by its members that were later printed and> > distributed for the public record, in broadside> > documentary form. > > > > More specifically: the 14 Rules of Governance> > dealt practically with such operating matters as> > contract enforcement and the provision of> sanctions> > for events of default on traded contracts.> Moreover,> > the Rules appear to have embodied what was then> > understood to be the functional separation of> > brokers from dealers/jobbers, standardized by> > British auctions practice. For example, one Rule> > prohibits the auctioneer from trading for his own> > account, a prohibition observed in the industry> > trading practice today. However, a number of other> > practices were to prove subsequently without> lasting> > institutional effect, because the typical volumes> > traded during this early period of economic> > development had not yet reached a minimum> threshold> > of activity necessary to sustain them over the> long> > run, Local markets' practice in a number of ways> > eventually reverted to a former pattern. Within> just> > a decade, one Wall Street market leader since long> > forgotten by history, Nathaniel Prime> > [that's the Mr. "Prime" of the eponymous bankers'> > "Prime" Rate] acted as both dealer/jobber and> broker> > in Wall Street stock trading. Acting at variance> > with the British practice, Mr. Prime combined the> > two functions, which the experts tell us carries> the> > benefits of added liquidity to thin markets, which> > was the chronic condition of these markets during> > this period in American history. > > > > [P.S.: The establishment of New York City's> Stock> > Dealers Association is formally recorded in the> > original copy of the 14 adopted Resolutions of> that> > day, published as the September 01, 1791> Broadside,> > long since archived. See the facsimile reproduced> in> > Walter Werner & Steven T. Smith, WALL STREET [(New> > York: Columbia Univ. Press, 1991), see appendix C,> === message truncated ===Do You ? Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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