That Grimes Chart: Rejection in One Page

August 30, 2005

CONCLUSION up front: The so-called Ron Grimes U.S.A. Chart is categorically in error because of two incontestable considerations, [01] and [02]:

[01] The date in question: March 01, 1781, marks the birth of the "United States in Congress Assembled" [u.S.C.A.] under the Articles of Confederation, finally ratified in a noontime signing ceremony, in Congress, Philadelphia. The U.S.C.A was a government, not a sovereign State. The constitutional powers of the U.S.C.A. were those delegated under the Articles of Confederation, sponsored by the sovereign State, U.S.A., born on July 02, 1776. Therefore, at best, a birth chart for this not unimportant day should represent the birth of constitutional government for the U.S.A. And, so, a birth chart for this date, rectified in accordance with, not in defiance of, the event facts of the day may well "work" for mundane events of government, but not "necessarily" for events impacting the sovereign U.S.A., which is the People in its civic capacity; "the People" to be clearly distinguished from "the People's agency", the government.

[02] The Grimes Chart for 15:19 on this historic date is "off" in rectification by, 'clock minutes approximately,' 199 minutes. The Articles were signed by Daniel Carroll and John Hanson, on behalf of the State of Maryland, just a minute or so before 12:00 noon, in order for Congress to "go public" with the announcement "at 12:00 noon." At 15:19 on March 1st 1781 the members of Congress were already hours into celebrating the accomplished noontime signing, at a dinner function hosted by the President of the U.S.C.A., Samuel Huntington, at his private Philadelphia residence, a dinner function arranged to pay tribute and mark the occasion.

Summing Up: All that the Grimes Chart "proves" is that any astrologer may elect to put a calendar on a wall, throw darts at it a sufficient number of times, and eventually, hitting a random mark, stumble on a day, hour, minute and second which time moment may suggest, when cast horoscopically and rectified, that "this" characterizes the U.S.A. Now, for a concrete illustration of just such wacko empiricist methodology in action: Check out sidereal astrologer, Rick Houck's U.S.A. birth chart, cast for June 19, 1776. Surf the internet; it's there. June 19, 1776? Say What? ... Right! .. Nothing whatsoever of historic moment happened that day. And so it would appear, as one ought to necessarily conclude, that the undeservedly well regarded by many, Grimes Chart proves nothing more than that the inconvenient facts of history are more dishonored in the breach than honored in the observance, at least by some mundane astrologers:

Please read the relevant excerpts of the HISTORICAL FACTS OF RECORD from the Journals of Congress and Letters of the Delegates, herein below:

[background clarifying points: Previous to March 1, 1781 the first eight of the thirteen states had signed the Articles on July 9, 1778; then later on North Carolina, on July 21st; then Georgia, on July 24th; then New Jersey, on November 25th, all in 1778; then the following year, Delaware on May 5th, 1779; then the 13th and last, Maryland, 22 months later on March 1, 1781 @ about 12:00 noon. The record of this precise time of day can be found in The Papers of the Continental Congress, folio no. 9; February 24, 1781, (History of the Confederation). These Papers were published separately from and well as in the Journals of the Continental Congress.

QUOTE:

THURSDAY, MARCH 1, 1781

According to the order of the day, the honorable John Hanson and Daniel Carroll, two of the delegates for the State of Maryland, in pursuance of the act of the legislature of that State, entitled "An act to empower the delegates of this State in Congress to and ratify the Articles of Confederation," which was read in Congress the 12 of February last, and a copy thereof entered on the minutes, did, in behalf of the said State of Maryland, sign and ratify the said articles, by which act the Confederation of the United States of America was completed, each and every of the Thirteen United States, from New Hampshire to Georgia, both included, having adopted and confirmed, and by their delegates in Congress, ratified the same, [then] Adjourned (For the rest of the day). [Following on the signing ceremony, the Delegates then proceeded to the public celebratory events described below in Thomas Rodney’s Diary]:

Journals of the Continental CongressSATURDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1781

Congress took into consideration the report of the committee appointed to report the mode of announcing the final ratification of the Articles of Confederation; Whereupon,

That [on Thursday next at 12 o'Clock the final ratification of] the Confederation of the United States of America becompleted, by the execution thereof on the part of Maryland, at twelve o'clock on Thursday next, and that this important event be immediately announced to the publick,by the firing of thirteen cannon, and by the ringing of the bells in this city, (and that the Board of War and Board of Admiralty take order accordingly.)

That thissame (Important Event) be also communicated to the Executives of the several States,and to the Commander-in-Chief they be requested to proclaim it in their respective states.

That the several Ministers of these states in Europe beforthwith informed of the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and they beinstructed (ordered) tocommunicate (notify) the same to the respective courts at which they reside.

That copies of the foregoing resolutions, with authentick information of the completion of the said Confederation, be transmitted to the Commander in Chief; and that he be directed topublish (announce) the same to the Army under hisimmediate command,and to the fleet and army of our most illustrious ally, in America.

That the like information be transmitted to the commanding officer in the southern department, and that he be directed to announce the same to the Army under his command.

That the Minister of France be also informed, that it is intended to complete and ratify the said Confederation on Thursday next; and that he be requested to make the earliest communication of the same to his Court.1

[Note : * This report, in the writing of George Walton, except the portions in brackets, which are in Charles Thomson's hand, and those in parentheses, which are in Samuel Huntington's hand, is in thePapers of the Continental Congress, No. 23, folio 29. It is also entered in No. 9, (History of the Confederation.) A part of the report, but separately presented, is the following:

NOT OF RECORD

That the Congress adjourn after completing the Confederation; and the President shall invite the Minister of France, the Speaker and members of the General Assembly, the Vice-President and members of the Supreme Executive Council, and the officers of the Army and Navy, to drink a glass of wine [to] "The United States of America." A keg of biscuit, in the room of cake.*

[Note *: * Does it mean the Cake room.]

To be in the Hall where Congress sit.The last six words are in James Madison's hand.Another resolution, undated, in the writing of John Mathews, is in No. 36, IV, folio 423, as follows:Resolved that -- next be appointed for the Delegates of Maryland to sign the Confederation.That the President of the State of Pennsylvania the Minister of France, The Vice-President Council and assembly of Pennsylvania, the officers of the French and American Armies in this City, and all other public officers, be particularly invited to attend the ceremony and that the doors of the Congress chamber be opened at twelve oClock.That the Board of War be directed to give proper orders, for announcing the final ratification of theAmerican Confederacy of the United States by the discharge of thirteen cannon.That one of the Chaplains of Congressbe directed to prepare a suitable sermon for the occasion.]

Resolved, That on Thursday next, at twelve o'clock, the final ratification of the Confederation of the United States

of America, be announced to the public; and that the Board of War and Board of Admiralty take order accordingly:

That this important event be communicated to the executives of the several states:

That the several ministers of these states in Europe be informed of the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and that they be ordered to notify the same to the respective courts at which they reside:

That it be also notified to the honorable the Minister Plenipotentiary of France:

That information of the completion of the said Confederation be transmitted to the Commander in Chief, and that he be directed to announce the same to the army under his command.

[Note 1: 1 The words in brackets are in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 9 (History of the Confederation) but not in the Journal.]

To all to whom these Presents shall come, we the under signed Delegates of the States affixed to our Names, send greeting.

Whereas the Delegates of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, did, on the 15th day of November, in the Year of our Lord One thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy seven, and in the Second Year of the Independence of America, agree to certain articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina and Georgia in the words following, viz. "Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the states of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New-York, New-Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina and Georgia.

In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the state of Pennsylvania the ninth day of July, in the Year of our Lord one Thousand seven Hundred and Seventy-eight, and in the third year of the independence of America.On the part and behalf of the State of Maryland. • John Hanson, March 1, 1781, • Daniel Carroll, do

[Note 1: 1 The proceedings of this day with respect to the signing of the Articles of Confederation, the Articles themselves and the signers are entered in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 9 (History of the Confederation), but not in the Journal itself. The Articles are printed here from the original roll in the Bureau of Rolls and Library, Department of State.]

Letters of Delegates to Congress: Vol. 17 March 1, 1781 - August 31, 1781

Thomas Rodney's Diary

MARCH 1, 1781

[March 1, 1781] On Thursday being the first of March The Confederation of the United States was finally established in Congress To be perpetual, being first Considered and acceded to by the Legislatures of all the States. By a Signal given at the State House The Completion of this grand Union & Confederation was announced by Firing thirteen Cannon on the Hill And the same number on board Captain. Paul Jones Frigate in the Harbor. At Two O’clock the members of Congress, The members of the General Assembly of Pennsylvania, the President and Council of that State, the officers of the Army in Town, the officers of State and a great number of Gentlemen waited on the President of Congress To Congratulate him on this occasion; And partook of a Collation prepared at his House for that purpose. In the evening there was a grand exhibition of fireworks at the State House, & also on board Paul Jones Frigate in the Harbor-And all the Vessels in the Harbor were

Decorated and illuminated on this Occasion and great joy appeared in every Countenance but those of the Disaffected.

MS (DLC: Rodney Family Papers). A continuation of a composite diary entry covering February 26-March 1, for which see Rodney's Diary, February 26-28, 1781.Accounts of the celebration similar to the description recorded in Rodney's diary this day appeared in the Pennsylvania Packet, March 3, and the Pennsylvania Gazette, March 7, 1781. Letters of Delegates to Congress: Vol 17 March 1, 1781 - August 31, 1781

Thomas Rodney to Caesar Rodney

Sir, Philadelphia. March 2nd. 1781.

Yesterday the Confederation was finally ratified and confirmed. (Later) at Two O’clock we had a collation at the President of Congress's. At five I dined at Mr. Thomas McKean with the President & the Vice President and Sundry members of assembly of this State and Sundry Members of Congress & others. Thus you hear this Situation is not without the flattering inducements of Good Company & Good Living. But as have not yet had it in my power to get lodgings to My Mind, have not yet been waited on by the Minister of France Whose Custom it is to wait on every member of Congress as soon as he Takes lodgings.

As I may often communicate to you many things which ought not to be public I shall only request that you will always attend to such things as your own Judgment points out to be of that nature which may save me the Trouble of particularizing them. I am Vizt. Thomas Rodney

Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789:THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 1781

Mr. [John] Hanson, a delegate for Maryland, attended and took his seat in Congress.The delegates of Maryland having taken their seats in Congress with powers to sign the Articles of Confederation:Ordered, That Thursday next be assigned for completing the Confederation; and that a committee of three be appointed, to consider and report a mode for announcing the same to the public: the members, [Mr. George] Walton, Mr. [James] Madison, Mr. [John] Mathews.1[Note 1: 1 This motion was also entered in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 9. (History of the Confederation.)]…. This Journal entry here is not a complete transcript of the Congressional Order in question.Previously, on Monday, FEBRUARY 12, 1781.Mr. Daniel Carroll, a delegate for the State of Maryland, attended and produced the credentials of his appointment, which were read, as follows:Maryland, Annapolis 3 Feb. 1781.We hereby certify that John Hanson, Daniel of St.

Thomas Jennifer, Daniel Carroll and Richard Potts Esquires are elected Delegates, to represent this State in Congress for the year One thousand seven hundred and Eighty one.Ja. Macubbin Cl. Sen.F. Green Cl He Del.1[Note 1: 1 The original is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, Maryland, Credentials of Delegates.]

The delegates for Maryland laid before Congress a certified copy of an act of the legislature of that State, which was read, as follows:"An act to empower the delegates of this State in Congress to and ratify theArticles of Confederation."Whereas it hath been said that the common enemy is encouraged by this State not acceding to the Confederation, to hope that the union of the sister states may be dissolved; and therefore prosecutes the war in expectation of an event so disgraceful to America; and our friends and illustrious ally are impressed with an idea that the common cause would be promoted by our formally acceding to the Confederation: this general assembly, conscious that this State hath, from the commencement of the war, strenuously exerted herself in the common cause, and fully satisfied that if no formal confederation was to take place, it is the fixed determination of this State to continue her exertions to the utmost,

agreeable to the faith pledged in the union; from an earnest desire to conciliate the affection of the sister states; to convince all the world of our unalterable resolution to support the independence of the United States, and the alliance with his Most Christian Majesty, and to destroy forever any apprehension of our friends, or hope in our enemies, of this State being again united to Great Britain;"Be it enacted by the general assembly of Maryland, that the delegates of this State in Congress, or any two or three of them, shall be, and are hereby, empowered and required, on behalf of this State, to the Articles of Confederation and perpetual union between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia, signed in the general Congress of the said States by the honorable Henry Laurens, esq. their then

President, and laid before the legislature of this State to be ratified if approved. And that the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual union, so as aforesaid d, shall thenceforth be ratified and become conclusive as to this State, and obligatory thereon. And it is hereby declared, that, by acceding to the said Confederation, this State doth not relinquish, or intend to relinquish, any right or interest she hath, with the other united or confederated states, to the back country; but claims the same as fully as was done by the legislature of this State, in their declaration, which stands entered on the journals of Congress; this State relying on the justice of the several states hereafter, as to the said claim made by this State."And it is further declared, that no article in the said Confederation, can or ought to bind this or any other State, to guarantee any exclusive claim of any particular State, to the soil of the said back lands, or any such claim of

jurisdiction over the said lands or the inhabitants thereof.By the House of Delegates, January 30th, 1781, read and assented to,By order, F. Green, Clerk.By the Senate, February 2nd, 1781. Read and assented to.By order, JAs. MacCubbin, Clerk,Tho. S. Lee. (L. S.)"1[Note 1: 1 This copy is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 70, folio 453. It was also entered in No. 9 (History of the Confederation).]

Letters of Delegates to Congress: Volume 17 March 1, 1781 - August 31, 1781Thomas Rodney to Caesar Rodney

Yesterday the Confederation was finally ratified and confirmed. At Two O’clock we had a Collation at the President of Congress's. At five I dined at Mr. McKean’s with the President & Vice President and Sundry members of assembly of this State and Sundry Members of Congress & others. Thus you hear this Situation is not without the flattering inducements of Good Company & Good Living. But as have not yet had it in my power to git lodgings to My Mind, have not yet been waited on by the Minister of France Whose Custom it is to wait on every member of Congress as soon as he Takes lodgings. As I may often communicate to you many things which ought not to be public I shall only request that you will always attend to such things as your own Judgment points out to be of that nature which may save me the Trouble of particularizing them. I am Vizt. Thomas Rodney

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August 30, 2005

Dear John,

Thank you for another clear explanation on

this subject.

To rectify a chart is a very tricky

process. The support of historical records is of the maximum importance.

Best wishes,

Jorge

SAMVA

[sAMVA ] On Behalf Of JohnTWB

terça-feira, 30 de Agosto de

2005 16:12

samva

That Grimes

Chart: Rejection in One Page

CONCLUSION up front: The so-called

Ron Grimes U.S.A. Chart is categorically in error because of two incontestable

considerations, [01] and [02]:

[01] The date in question: March 01,

1781, marks the birth of the " United States in Congress Assembled "

[u.S.C.A.] under the Articles of Confederation, finally ratified in a noontime

signing ceremony, in Congress, Philadelphia. The U.S.C.A was a government, not

a sovereign State. The constitutional powers of the U.S.C.A. were those

delegated under the Articles of Confederation, sponsored by the sovereign

State, U.S.A., born on July 02, 1776. Therefore, at best, a birth chart for

this not unimportant day should represent the birth of constitutional

government for the U.S.A. And, so, a birth chart for this date, rectified in

accordance with, not in defiance of, the event facts of the day may well

" work " for mundane events of government, but not " necessarily "

for events impacting the sovereign U.S.A., which is the People in its civic

capacity; " the People " to be clearly distinguished from " the

People's agency " , the government.

[02] The Grimes Chart for 15:19 on

this historic date is " off " in rectification by, 'clock minutes

approximately,' 199 minutes. The Articles were signed by Daniel Carroll and

John Hanson, on behalf of the State of Maryland, just a minute or so before

12:00 noon, in order for Congress to " go public " with the

announcement " at 12:00 noon. " At 15:19 on March 1st 1781 the members

of Congress were already hours into celebrating the accomplished noontime

signing, at a dinner function hosted by the President of the U.S.C.A., Samuel

Huntington, at his private Philadelphia residence, a dinner function arranged

to pay tribute and mark the occasion.

Summing Up: All that the Grimes Chart

" proves " is that any astrologer may elect to put a calendar on a

wall, throw darts at it a sufficient number of times, and eventually, hitting a

random mark, stumble on a day, hour, minute and second which time moment may

suggest, when cast horoscopically and rectified, that " this "

characterizes the U.S.A. Now, for a concrete illustration of just such wacko

empiricist methodology in action: Check out sidereal astrologer, Rick Houck's

U.S.A. birth chart, cast for June 19, 1776. Surf the internet; it's there. June

19, 1776? Say What? ... Right! .. Nothing whatsoever of historic moment

happened that day. And so it would appear, as one ought to necessarily

conclude, that the undeservedly well regarded by many, Grimes Chart proves

nothing more than that the inconvenient facts of history are more dishonored in

the breach than honored in the observance, at least by some mundane

astrologers:

Please read the relevant excerpts of

the HISTORICAL FACTS OF RECORD from the Journals of Congress and Letters of the

Delegates, herein below:

[background clarifying points:

Previous to March 1, 1781 the first eight of the thirteen states had signed the

Articles on July 9, 1778; then later on North Carolina, on July 21st; then

Georgia, on July 24th; then New Jersey, on November 25th, all in 1778; then the

following year, Delaware on May 5th, 1779; then the 13th and last, Maryland, 22

months later on March 1, 1781 @ about 12:00 noon. The record of this precise

time of day can be found in The Papers of the Continental Congress, folio no.

9; February 24, 1781, (History of the Confederation). These Papers were

published separately from and well as in the Journals of the Continental

Congress.

QUOTE:

THURSDAY, MARCH 1, 1781

According to the order of the day,

the honorable John Hanson and Daniel Carroll, two of the delegates for the

State of Maryland, in pursuance of the act of the legislature of that State,

entitled " An act to empower the delegates of this State in Congress to

and ratify the Articles of Confederation, " which was read in

Congress the 12 of February last, and a copy thereof entered on the minutes,

did, in behalf of the said State of Maryland, sign and ratify the said articles,

by which act the Confederation of the United States of America was completed,

each and every of the Thirteen United States, from New Hampshire to Georgia,

both included, having adopted and confirmed, and by their delegates in

Congress, ratified the same, [then] Adjourned (For the rest of the day).

[Following on the signing ceremony, the Delegates then proceeded to the public

celebratory events described below in Thomas Rodney’s Diary]:

Journals of the Continental Congress

SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1781

Congress took into consideration the report of the

committee appointed to report the mode of announcing the final ratification of

the Articles of Confederation; Whereupon,

That [on Thursday next at 12 o'Clock the final

ratification of] the Confederation of the United States of America becompleted,

by the execution thereof on the part of Maryland, at twelve o'clock on Thursday

next, and that this important event be immediately announced to the publick,by

the firing of thirteen cannon, and by the ringing of the bells in this city,

(and that the Board of War and Board of Admiralty take order accordingly.)

That thissame (Important Event) be also communicated

to the Executives of the several States,and to the Commander-in-Chief they be

requested to proclaim it in their respective states.

That the several Ministers of these states in Europe

beforthwith informed of the complete and final ratification of the said

Confederation; and they beinstructed (ordered) tocommunicate (notify) the same

to the respective courts at which they reside.

That copies of the foregoing resolutions, with

authentick information of the completion of the said Confederation, be

transmitted to the Commander in Chief; and that he be directed topublish

(announce) the same to the Army under hisimmediate command,and to the fleet and

army of our most illustrious ally, in America.

That the like information be transmitted to the

commanding officer in the southern department, and that he be directed to

announce the same to the Army under his command.

That the Minister of France be also informed, that it

is intended to complete and ratify the said Confederation on Thursday next; and

that he be requested to make the earliest communication of the same to his

Court.1

[Note : * This report, in

the writing of George Walton, except the portions in brackets, which are in

Charles Thomson's hand, and those in parentheses, which are in Samuel

Huntington's hand, is in thePapers of the Continental Congress, No. 23, folio

29. It is also entered in No. 9, (History of the Confederation.) A part of the

report, but separately presented, is the following:

NOT OF RECORD

That the Congress adjourn

after completing the Confederation; and the President shall invite the Minister

of France, the Speaker and members of the General Assembly, the Vice-President

and members of the Supreme Executive Council, and the officers of the Army and

Navy, to drink a glass of wine [to] " The United States of America. " A

keg of biscuit, in the room of cake.*

[Note *: * Does it mean

the Cake room.]

To be in the Hall where

Congress sit.

The last six words are in James

Madison's hand.

Another resolution, undated, in the

writing of John Mathews, is in No. 36, IV, folio 423, as follows:

Resolved that -- next be appointed for

the Delegates of Maryland to sign the Confederation.

That the President of the State of

Pennsylvania the Minister of France, The Vice-President Council and assembly of

Pennsylvania, the officers of the French and American Armies in this City, and

all other public officers, be particularly invited to attend the ceremony and

that the doors of the Congress chamber be opened at twelve oClock.

That the Board of War be directed to

give proper orders, for announcing the final ratification of theAmerican

Confederacy of the United States by the discharge of thirteen cannon.

That one of the Chaplains of Congressbe

directed to prepare a suitable sermon for the occasion.]

Resolved, That on

Thursday next, at twelve o'clock, the final ratification of the Confederation

of the United States

of America, be announced

to the public; and that the Board of War and Board of Admiralty take order

accordingly:

That this important event

be communicated to the executives of the several states:

That the several

ministers of these states in Europe be informed of the complete and final

ratification of the said Confederation; and that they be ordered to notify the

same to the respective courts at which they reside:

That it be also notified

to the honorable the Minister Plenipotentiary of France:

That information of the

completion of the said Confederation be transmitted to the Commander in Chief,

and that he be directed to announce the same to the army under his command.

[Note 1: 1 The words in

brackets are in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 9 (History of the

Confederation) but not in the Journal.]

To all to whom these

Presents shall come, we the under signed Delegates of the States affixed to our

Names, send greeting.

Whereas the Delegates of

the United States of America, in Congress assembled, did, on the 15th day of

November, in the Year of our Lord One thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy seven,

and in the Second Year of the Independence of America, agree to certain

articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New

Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations,

Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia,

North-Carolina, South-Carolina and Georgia in the words following, viz.

" Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the states of New

Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations,

Connecticut, New-York, New-Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia,

North-Carolina, South-Carolina and Georgia.

In Witness whereof we

have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the state of

Pennsylvania the ninth day of July, in the Year of our Lord one Thousand seven

Hundred and Seventy-eight, and in the third year of the independence of

America.

On the part and behalf of the State of

Maryland.

• John Hanson, March 1, 1781,

• Daniel Carroll, do

[Note 1: 1 The

proceedings of this day with respect to the signing of the Articles of

Confederation, the Articles themselves and the signers are entered in the

Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 9 (History of the Confederation), but

not in the Journal itself. The Articles are printed here from the original roll

in the Bureau of Rolls and Library, Department of State.]

Letters of Delegates to

Congress: Vol. 17 March 1, 1781 - August 31, 1781

Thomas Rodney's Diary

MARCH 1, 1781

[March 1, 1781] On

Thursday being the first of March The Confederation of the United States was

finally established in Congress To be perpetual, being first Considered and

acceded to by the Legislatures of all the States. By a Signal given at the

State House The Completion of this grand Union & Confederation was

announced by Firing thirteen Cannon on the Hill And the same number on board

Captain. Paul Jones Frigate in the Harbor. At Two O’clock the members of

Congress, The members of the General Assembly of Pennsylvania, the President

and Council of that State, the officers of the Army in Town, the officers of

State and a great number of Gentlemen waited on the President of Congress To

Congratulate him on this occasion; And partook of a Collation prepared at his

House for that purpose. In the evening there was a grand exhibition of

fireworks at the State House, & also on board Paul Jones Frigate in the

Harbor-And all the Vessels in the Harbor were Decorated and illuminated on this

Occasion and great joy appeared in every Countenance but those of the

Disaffected.

MS (DLC: Rodney Family

Papers). A continuation of a composite diary entry covering February 26-March

1, for which see Rodney's Diary, February 26-28, 1781.

Accounts of the celebration similar to

the description recorded in Rodney's diary this day appeared in the

Pennsylvania Packet, March 3, and the Pennsylvania Gazette, March 7, 1781.

Letters of Delegates to Congress: Vol

17 March 1, 1781 - August 31, 1781

Thomas Rodney to Caesar

Rodney

Sir, Philadelphia. March

2nd. 1781.

Yesterday the

Confederation was finally ratified and confirmed. (Later) at Two O’clock

we had a collation at the President of Congress's. At five I dined at Mr.

Thomas McKean with the President & the Vice President and Sundry members of

assembly of this State and Sundry Members of Congress & others. Thus you

hear this Situation is not without the flattering inducements of Good Company

& Good Living. But as have not yet had it in my power to get lodgings to My

Mind, have not yet been waited on by the Minister of France Whose Custom it is

to wait on every member of Congress as soon as he Takes lodgings.

As I may often

communicate to you many things which ought not to be public I shall only

request that you will always attend to such things as your own Judgment points

out to be of that nature which may save me the Trouble of particularizing them.

I am Vizt.

Thomas Rodney

Journals of the

Continental Congress, 1774-1789:

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 1781

Mr. [John] Hanson, a

delegate for Maryland, attended and took his seat in Congress.

The delegates of Maryland having taken

their seats in Congress with powers to sign the Articles of Confederation:

Ordered, That Thursday next be assigned

for completing the Confederation; and that a committee of three be appointed,

to consider and report a mode for announcing the same to the public: the

members, [Mr. George] Walton, Mr. [James] Madison, Mr. [John] Mathews.1

[Note 1: 1 This motion was also entered

in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 9. (History of the

Confederation.)]…. This Journal entry here is not a complete transcript

of the Congressional Order in question.

Previously, on Monday, FEBRUARY 12,

1781.

Mr. Daniel Carroll, a delegate for the

State of Maryland, attended and produced the credentials of his appointment,

which were read, as follows:

Maryland, Annapolis 3 Feb. 1781.

We hereby certify that John Hanson,

Daniel of St. Thomas Jennifer, Daniel Carroll and Richard Potts Esquires are

elected Delegates, to represent this State in Congress for the year One

thousand seven hundred and Eighty one.

Ja. Macubbin Cl. Sen.

F. Green Cl He Del.1

[Note 1: 1 The original is in the

Papers of the Continental Congress, Maryland, Credentials of Delegates.]

The delegates for Maryland laid before Congress

a certified copy of an act of the legislature of that State, which was read, as

follows:

" An act to empower the delegates

of this State in Congress to and ratify the

Articles of Confederation.

" Whereas it hath been said that

the common enemy is encouraged by this State not acceding to the Confederation,

to hope that the union of the sister states may be dissolved; and therefore

prosecutes the war in expectation of an event so disgraceful to America; and

our friends and illustrious ally are impressed with an idea that the common

cause would be promoted by our formally acceding to the Confederation: this

general assembly, conscious that this State hath, from the commencement of the

war, strenuously exerted herself in the common cause, and fully satisfied that

if no formal confederation was to take place, it is the fixed determination of

this State to continue her exertions to the utmost, agreeable to the faith

pledged in the union; from an earnest desire to conciliate the affection of the

sister states; to convince all the world of our unalterable resolution to

support the independence of the United States, and the alliance with his Most

Christian Majesty, and to destroy forever any apprehension of our friends, or

hope in our enemies, of this State being again united to Great Britain;

" Be it enacted by the general

assembly of Maryland, that the delegates of this State in Congress, or any two

or three of them, shall be, and are hereby, empowered and required, on behalf

of this State, to the Articles of Confederation and perpetual union

between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and

Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania,

Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia,

signed in the general Congress of the said States by the honorable Henry

Laurens, esq. their then President, and laid before the legislature of this

State to be ratified if approved. And that the said Articles of Confederation

and perpetual union, so as aforesaid d, shall thenceforth be ratified

and become conclusive as to this State, and obligatory thereon. And it is

hereby declared, that, by acceding to the said Confederation, this State doth

not relinquish, or intend to relinquish, any right or interest she hath, with

the other united or confederated states, to the back country; but claims the

same as fully as was done by the legislature of this State, in their

declaration, which stands entered on the journals of Congress; this State

relying on the justice of the several states hereafter, as to the said claim

made by this State.

" And it is further declared, that

no article in the said Confederation, can or ought to bind this or any other

State, to guarantee any exclusive claim of any particular State, to the soil of

the said back lands, or any such claim of jurisdiction over the said lands or

the inhabitants thereof.

By the House of Delegates, January

30th, 1781, read and assented to,

By order, F. Green, Clerk.

By the Senate, February

2nd, 1781. Read and assented to.

By order, JAs. MacCubbin, Clerk,

Tho. S. Lee. (L. S.) " 1

[Note 1: 1 This copy is in the Papers

of the Continental Congress, No. 70, folio 453. It was also entered in No. 9

(History of the Confederation).]

Letters of Delegates to

Congress: Volume 17 March 1, 1781 - August

31, 1781

Thomas Rodney to Caesar Rodney

Yesterday the

Confederation was finally ratified and confirmed. At Two

O’clock we had a Collation at

the President of Congress's. At five I dined at Mr. McKean’s with the

President & Vice President and Sundry members of assembly of this State and

Sundry Members of Congress & others. Thus you hear this Situation is not

without the flattering inducements of Good Company & Good Living. But as

have not yet had it in my power to git lodgings to My Mind, have not yet been

waited on by the Minister of France Whose Custom it is to wait on every member

of Congress as soon as he Takes lodgings.

As I may often communicate to you many

things which ought not to be public I shall only request that you will always

attend to such things as your own Judgment points out to be of that nature

which may save me the Trouble of particularizing them. I am Vizt.

Thomas Rodney

To help you stay safe and secure

online, we've developed the all new Security Centre.

August 30, 2005

John,

Very interesting. May I ask you a question as a newcomer who has a

passing interest in history. The Rodney documents say that the

ratification was to be made public at " approximately " noon. If this

is true, did a filing process have to occur later in the day in

order to finalize the ratification? Is public declaration of

something what makes it legal and binding?

What I'm getting at is this. I can have a marriage ceremony, sign

the marriage certificate and the minister can say, " I now pronounce

you husband and wife " , but that public pronouncement means nothing

unless the signed marriage certificate is filed with the court clerk

sometime afterward. That is what makes it final and binding.

So, it seems to me that your reference is truly interesting, but it

does not negate Mr. Grimes time of 3:19pm.

Thanks for any clarification you can provide.

Anji

SAMVA , JohnTWB <jtwbjakarta> wrote:

>

> CONCLUSION up front: The so-called Ron Grimes U.S.A. Chart is

categorically in error because of two incontestable considerations,

[01] and [02]:

>

> [background clarifying points: Previous to March 1, 1781 the first

eight of the thirteen states had signed the Articles on July 9,

1778;

August 30, 2005

Hi Jorge & Group,

Just one related point:

After further research, I've actually become "not keen" on the 12:00 noon chart for March 01, 1781; in the main, historically speaking, because I'm just not a believer in the significance of the date's formal event. Bear in mind, my suspicions were aroused because nothing new happened the literal morning after, in Congress, on Friday morning March "02," or any time thereafter until the Confederation was finally closed down in 1788 [september 13th]. It was a case of the Same Old Continental Congress on March 2, following the same rules as it had been doing for years.

I should implore someone to take a look at this historically viable, unexplored alternative date for what amounts to be the prime candidate for the de-facto start of government under the Articles of Confederation ... November 13, 1777 ... the Thursday on which the ARTICLES were first officially completed and adopted, at about 18:00, at the close of the afternoon session. [ by the way, Uranus sitting on the Taurus ascendant, as well, for those yearning for symbolism.] This Nov 13 I suspect is the cosmically real date for the effective, not legal, start of constitutional powers, which guided the UNITED STATES IN CONGRESS

ASSEMBLED.

[And, moreover, the November 13th should not to be confused with the David Solte, Scorpionic America, Chart for November 17th, 1777, the Saturday just two days later. The Solte event date, the 17th, just doesn't work, and I write this based exclusively on technical historical grounds, because nothing was done that Saturday except the finalizing of the documentation arising from the November 13 enacted adoption. [Which enactment's prior overriding significance Solte didn't think worth mentioning in his promotional materials].... However, as "de-facto", the ARTICLES were undoubtedly born November 13, 1777, just as the official voted "Resolve" implies, a "declared enactment" [by contrast, the November 17th signatures were without requisite powers of attorney, so the signatures were, in the absence of binding legal effect in each of the States [no national jurisdiction then]. Effectively the

signatures were the equivalent of "initials" for authenticating the printed document first excuted by the Nov 13 resolve, not empowered "signatures" formally executing the compact. Of couse this is precisely what Congress understood themselves to be doing. That is, getting the Nov 13 document ready for distribution to the Governors of the 13 States, so to begin what was to be a 42 month ratifications process. De-facto, November 13, 1777; De-jure, on March 01, 1781; this choice in the matter at hand can ONLY be determined astrologically.

My hunch is that November 13, 1777 is the better bet than March 1, 1777; bearing in mind for anyone taking a first look, that it was November 13, 1777.... in YORK, Pennsylvania ... [LMT +5:06:55] Regards, John

Jorge Angelino <jorge.angelino wrote:

Dear John,

Thank you for another clear explanation on this subject.

To rectify a chart is a very tricky process. The support of historical records is of the maximum importance.

Best wishes,

Jorge

SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of JohnTWBterça-feira, 30 de Agosto de 2005 16:12samva Subject: That Grimes Chart: Rejection in One Page

CONCLUSION up front: The so-called Ron Grimes U.S.A. Chart is categorically in error because of two incontestable considerations, [01] and [02]:

[01] The date in question: March 01, 1781, marks the birth of the "United States in Congress Assembled" [u.S.C.A.] under the Articles of Confederation, finally ratified in a noontime signing ceremony, in Congress, Philadelphia. The U.S.C.A was a government, not a sovereign State. The constitutional powers of the U.S.C.A. were those delegated under the Articles of Confederation, sponsored by the sovereign State, U.S.A., born on July 02, 1776. Therefore, at best, a birth chart for this not unimportant day should represent the birth of constitutional government for the U.S.A. And, so, a birth chart for this date, rectified in accordance with, not in defiance of, the event facts of the day may well "work" for mundane events of government, but not "necessarily" for events impacting the sovereign U.S.A., which is the People in its civic capacity; "the People" to be clearly

distinguished from "the People's agency", the government.

[02] The Grimes Chart for 15:19 on this historic date is "off" in rectification by, 'clock minutes approximately,' 199 minutes. The Articles were signed by Daniel Carroll and John Hanson, on behalf of the State of Maryland, just a minute or so before 12:00 noon, in order for Congress to "go public" with the announcement "at 12:00 noon." At 15:19 on March 1st 1781 the members of Congress were already hours into celebrating the accomplished noontime signing, at a dinner function hosted by the President of the U.S.C.A., Samuel Huntington, at his private Philadelphia residence, a dinner function arranged to pay tribute and mark the occasion.

Summing Up: All that the Grimes Chart "proves" is that any astrologer may elect to put a calendar on a wall, throw darts at it a sufficient number of times, and eventually, hitting a random mark, stumble on a day, hour, minute and second which time moment may suggest, when cast horoscopically and rectified, that "this" characterizes the U.S.A. Now, for a concrete illustration of just such wacko empiricist methodology in action: Check out sidereal astrologer, Rick Houck's U.S.A. birth chart, cast for June 19, 1776. Surf the internet; it's there. June 19, 1776? Say What? ... Right! .. Nothing whatsoever of historic moment happened that day. And so it would appear, as one ought to necessarily conclude, that the undeservedly well regarded by many, Grimes Chart proves nothing more than that the inconvenient facts of history are more dishonored in the breach than honored in

the observance, at least by some mundane astrologers:

Please read the relevant excerpts of the HISTORICAL FACTS OF RECORD from the Journals of Congress and Letters of the Delegates, herein below:

[background clarifying points: Previous to March 1, 1781 the first eight of the thirteen states had signed the Articles on July 9, 1778; then later on North Carolina, on July 21st; then Georgia, on July 24th; then New Jersey, on November 25th, all in 1778; then the following year, Delaware on May 5th, 1779; then the 13th and last, Maryland, 22 months later on March 1, 1781 @ about 12:00 noon. The record of this precise time of day can be found in The Papers of the Continental Congress, folio no. 9; February 24, 1781, (History of the Confederation). These Papers were published separately from and well as in the Journals of the Continental Congress.

QUOTE:

THURSDAY, MARCH 1, 1781

According to the order of the day, the honorable John Hanson and Daniel Carroll, two of the delegates for the State of Maryland, in pursuance of the act of the legislature of that State, entitled "An act to empower the delegates of this State in Congress to and ratify the Articles of Confederation," which was read in Congress the 12 of February last, and a copy thereof entered on the minutes, did, in behalf of the said State of Maryland, sign and ratify the said articles, by which act the Confederation of the United States of America was completed, each and every of the Thirteen United States, from New Hampshire to Georgia, both included, having adopted and confirmed, and by their delegates in Congress, ratified the same, [then] Adjourned (For the rest of the day). [Following on the signing ceremony, the Delegates then proceeded to the public celebratory

events described below in Thomas Rodney’s Diary]: