2-Parasuraman [Spirituality_Astrology] & 2-Jyothi, re. Is Life/or Astrology pre-determined, or free?, Mark Kincaid

[Guest guest]

Dear Parasuraman:

 

I agree, 200%!

 

I especially like the way you said it....all depends upon....'self-effort'....

 

And that truely is the key, to learn how to more and more, progressively,...act, think, perceive,

and make effort, from deeper and deeper levels of the Self.

 

Maybe we should be asking ourselves, is God free?

 

In other words, Do thoughts and actions come out of him, in freedom, or is he 'fated' to create

the Universe in a static, and uncreative, slaved, compulsive way?

 

Obviously when we put it this way, we might agree that God is the ultimate expression of Freedom.

 

The key to God's actions, then, are his 'Self'.

 

Because he's truely free, living from a state of unbounded,....internal freedom of the Self,

then all his thoughts, actions, even choices,.... come from the deepest level of freedom.

 

What we're all really complaining about, is that before enlightenment, we feel a slave to our

karmas. We have thoughts, we have perceptions and actions, and what we're really unhappy about is sometimes, or too often, we feel compelled to do this or that,...we feel forced along certain paths, and that compulsion, is what we wish was different.

 

Because we all have moments, where we feel more free.

We find ourselves, sometimes, thinking, or walking, or talking, or cognizing, laughing, acting, in such a happy and creative fashion, that we think....'ahhhhh, if only I could act like 'that' more of the time'...

 

That's why the reality of growing in the direction of our full potential of Self-awareness is not only the key to life, but, it's also the key to this thorny issue of freedom and determinism.

 

We are all eventually pre-determined to become eternally free!

 

And learning how to take advantage of the fated parts of us...

We all have particular Astrological natures, that are 'us'.

We all also, fortunately have the existence of pure spirit, or what I like to call 'freedom', and 'that' lives within, asleep, too often, but there, uncreated, and therefore not a reflection of karma or previous action....etc...

but the source of our true freedom.

 

Freedom is really the ever increasing identification of ourselves with that pure source....

of being,....of awareness,....and as we do this,...then,...coincidently,....we become more masterful, successful and therefore, more free, even, in the outer World and Universe.

 

ciao

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

Parasuraman <parasu41

Spirituality_Astrology

Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:24:30 +0000 (GMT)

Spirituality_Astrology

Re: [spirituality_Astrology] 2-Jyothi, re. Is Life/or Astrology pre-determined, or free?, > Mark Kincaid

 

 

Dear Friends,

We generally take credit for all good things and blame God for all bad things.

There is nothing like fate- it is all the results of our earlier karmas. God has nothing to do with fate.

In our life, there is a constant tussle between fate and self-effort. It all depends who wins.

Please click on:

 

http://www.geocities.com/parasu41/self_effort.html

 

Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid wrote:

Dear Jyothi:

 

There's another expression that I like,...which goes:

 

" Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness.... "

 

I like this because it hints at the possibility that as consciousness is different, then, so is

life, thoughts, perceptions and even actions.

 

If we don't get a good nite sleep, and are tired and/or stressed, our ability to act, to

'quote', do the right or better, action,...is diminished...

 

But, if we maximize our mind/body coordination, get good sleep, meditate, develop our consciousness,....then, we find that we make less mistakes, like forgetting, or making

dull or unclear decisions...

 

I find the best way to define 'right' action, is those actions which further evolution...

 

And the more clear, and evolved we are, the more wide range of positive actions are possible.

 

We have today, so many examples of people, who don't feel that they're fated, and as a result,

they act accordingly...

 

On the other hand, in India, for ex. where fate and pre-determinism, has been entrenched there

for sooo long,... people have lost the ability to change and improve themselves....

 

Another example, is ... if we believe in fate, make a test, lie down and see what happens to life, if we give up and don't act....

 

and we'll find that we have to involve ourselves in our lives, we can't think, that it's already decided, and therefore we have no control or involvement in the choices...

 

The more wide is our awareness, the more unbounded is our consciousness,... the more power

of action and choices, we have.

 

I understand this feeling of fate, however, because there is a state of consciousness, which is called the witness, or cosmic consciousness, and in that state, one watches or witnesses, all actions, and one has the direct experience that 'I' am not doing any actions...

 

IN that state, or close to that state, one will experience that one isn't the source of action...

 

However, in even higher states of consciousness, authorship of action comes back,... especially when one realizes that one,...is the real self of the Universe,....and all thoughts come from Me...

 

ciao

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

" jyothi_lakshmi_b " <jyothi_lakshmi_b

vedic astrology

Sun, 13 Mar 2005 02:59:04 -0000

vedic astrology

[vedic astrology] Re: 2-Jyothi, re. Is Life/or Astrology pre-determined, or free?, > Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for the prompt response. Your quotations were really

interesting. If you are interested, and if you dont think that I am

arguing, please I would like to ask some thing regarding the first

quotation. (Consider my queries just as my curisoity to reach the

final truth). If I consider life as a journey down the road, and

suppose at the end, I choose the right path instaed of left, my doubt

now is, who made me choose the right path and why I didnt feel to

choose the left? I feel that if I chose right and suppose some odds

are waiting for me there, then I would believe that I was predestined

by God that I should go by right and suffer those odds. (We usually

have experiences in our life when we chose to go by a particular bus,

but unfortunately couldnt catch it or we later feel that will go by

next bus, without any particular reason and end either in a minor

accident or fortunately escape from an accident. Both are possible.)

Am I right or wrong ?

 

Sincerly,

Jyothi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology , Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...>

wrote:

> Dear Jyothi:

>

> You bring up a good point.

>

> Because if LIFE, or Astrology is really deterministic, than there

really is

> no point to try and

> change,.....anything.

>

> But, I don't believe, life is 100% deterministic.

> I believe life, is both.

>

> I heard one great scholor express this 'debate' once, this way.

>

> " Predeterminism & free will is like you're going down a road.

> When you get to the end you can go to the left or the right.

> You have a choice.

> But, once you make the choice, it's inevitable, or pre-determined,

that

> first you'll

> see a white house, then a green and yellow one.

> However, at every moment you're still free to stop, and turn around

and go

> back,

> but once you do, it's again pre-determined, that along the other

road,

> you'll see

> first a brown house, then, a blue and white ones.

> Determinism & freedom, both co-exist. "

>

> Another great quote:

>

> " If all we could do was predict the future and not change it.

> Being able to see the dangers on the horizon

> but not change for better, would be very cruel. "

>

> Personally, I think this is one of the greatest fallacies, of

present

> Jyotish, or even Indian

> culture. If the West have anything to teach the World, it is the

fact, that

> life is not fate,

> and to put in common vernacular: " we believe that anyone can become

> President. "

>

> Good discussion, topic.

>

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

>

> " jyothi_lakshmi_b " <jyothi_lakshmi_b>

> vedic astrology

> Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:32:55 -0000

> vedic astrology

> [vedic astrology] Inviting a discussion- To what extent is

> astrology relevant?

>

>

>

> Respected Sirs,

>

> I would like to invite all members to a discussion on how far

> astrology is relevant. I am a strong believer in God and thinks that

> whatever we are destined to experience, we have to and that is

> inevitable. My doubt is that if this is the case, what is the

purpose

> of checking horoscopes and doing Pariharas?

> I am not at all questioning astrology (I am a passionate learner of

> the subject). But would like to get a satisfying answer from

scholars

> for this question which has been haunting me since I started

learning

> astrology.

>

>

> Jyothi.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

>

>