2-debbieM, re. How to judge, according to Astrology,.... Mark Kincaid

[Guest guest]

Dear Debbie:

 

This is why I think it's so important to realize we are not 'judgeing' as in putting down, but judgeing as in being the judges,....of Nature....

 

That's really what an Astrologer is,....wow, I never realized this before, but being a Judge, of Nature,...and what is truely 'right' for today,...and for always....

 

And though our own, wisdom as to this is always growing, Jyotish does have a long ancient history and place, in being believed to be, not .... due to the thoughts and opinions of individual minds or individuals that 'made' up Jyotish, but...

 

all of Vedic knowledge is believed to be.... the wisdom of nature, as 'cognized' by Vedic Seers, objectively..... in their pure, unbounded,....pure subjective,....pure consciousness....

 

To me, the ultimate test, is do our lives become better, more happy, more successful, more deeply fulfilling .....if we learn the ways and opinions, of Jyotish, or the Astrology of Nature....

 

People are always complaining because they're suffering this or that....

 

But Ved understands....that suffering is just nature's way of showing 'one' that ...one has gotten out of sinc, with Nature, and as a result, we get motivated to come back...

because our true Nature is one of bliss....

and unhappiness, is moving us in the 'wrong' direction....

 

Health is like that too. Pure sense of well-being, good energy, and profound, liveliness are all, the signs of good health, ill-health, is characterized by tiredness, dullness, lethargy, and increasing feelings of lack of bliss.....

 

Is nature cruel because we suffer, due to our own actions, in staying up too late, and working too hard, without resting sufficently?

 

No! Nature seems to have only one Rule!

 

(We can do whatever we want!)

 

With only one secondary rule, " We're going to experience the consequences of those actions.....

be held responsible for them..... "

 

Other then this, Nature allows us to do what we want. But, those same, natural consequences, are there, to show us, as to the relative 'right' or 'wrongness' of those actions.

 

What is truely right, then, for Nature and for Jyotish/Astrology, is that which causes us more growth, understanding, happiness, joy, more energy, and more evolution in this life....!

 

You said:

 

Or, is there one ultimate, universal " truth " out there that governs us all, and if so who decides it or is the " Truth " relative to us as individuals ..

 

We've talked about this but.... 'yes' I believe there is a universal 'truth' or reality, that is 'out there',....as well as being in here! And I believe also that the study of objective modern science, has as it's basis, the inherent desire to know the real truths of life....

 

Jyotish does represent the belief in human beings inherent ability to 'know' the truths of Nature, and of life....and as such.... premotes itself, as the wisdom ...of life....

 

However, it's very delicate. It's very important that we don't let our own subjective biases, interfere with our opinions or judgements...

 

But, I've found a great comfort in being able to say to people, my opinion is not my own, but is the opinion of Jyotish.

 

It's not my opinion that 'one's' Mars is malefic or 'wrong' because it's in the 7th house, but rather, it's Jyotish's opinion it's not 'healthy', 'balanced',....or 'right' because it's not indicative of the proper action that will lead to success in the health and happiness of that house.

 

That's Jyotish's main value system, is telling us, what actions and consequences are right or wrong, with the end result that happiness and success are the ultimate expression of right aciton!

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

" Deborah McGregor " <deborah.mcgregor

 

Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:49:37 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)

 

Re: The Astrology of Roe v. Wade: Three Decades Later

 

 

But to judge a persons actions is to judge the person themselves. A persons actions are what contributes to making them the unique individual they are, especially if we accept that the natal chart may provide a predisposition to act or be in some way. By judging a person by their actions is imposing our own often culturally driven values on them, in a different time, place or culture, those values may be/have been different.

 

Ah, " Truth " ... that old chestnut ... realism versus relativism eh? Or, is there one ultimate, universal " truth " out there that governs us all, and if so who decides it or is the " Truth " relative to us as individuals ... and taking that to a more esoteric leaning providing us all with the propensity for free will within which we can all create or resolve karma?

 

Debbie

 

----

 

 

01/24/05 15:12:22

 

Re: The Astrology of Roe v. Wade: Three Decades Later

 

 

 

 

>Is not being non-judgemental towards people and non-judgemental about their actions not the same thing though?

 

It is not the same at all. One may disapprove a tendency, a crime, and may also be full of compassion for the feeble person who has committed it...

 

May we be compassionate about ourselves in order to be the same with others ; but it is of an absolute necessity to know, see, and tell the truth. In any case we must never leave babies been killed in their mother's womb :-(((

 

Ann

 

 

 

In this Kali Yuga, all the true values are reversed :-((

 

>As astrologers should we be non-judgemental ?

 

We can be non-judgemental as to people, but not as to actions ! Each abortion is a murder !!!

 

What can we think about people killing their own babies in their womb ??? Such atrocities... These childs are only victims. And aborting women bring karma on themselves whatever they are " judged " or not.

 

With such views, where can this world go, but to hell ??? Is it a law of the Nature to kill infants ?

 

Ann

 

 

 

A fascinating piece.

 

I am involved in conducting funeral services as an Independent Funeral Officiant. I work very closely with the deceased's family and time and time again hear stories that have convinced me of the soul's " free will " to chose when to leave the physical body.

 

I have no strong opinions either pro-life or pro-abortion. Could it be though that abortion is just one of the many " mechanics " of the universe that support the soul in exercising its free will? From a karmic point of view, does such a situation not offer valuable growth and learning for all who are part of the process? As astrologers should we be non-judgemental?

 

Just musing

 

Debbie

 

----

 

 

01/24/05 08:25:24

 

The Astrology of Roe v. Wade: Three Decades Later

 

 

The Astrology of Roe v. Wade: Three Decades Later

 

2:14 AM 1/23/05 Sun

 

This weekend marks the 32nd anniversary of the landmark Roe v. Wade

Supreme Court ruling, which grants medically safe abortions to any

woman who wants them, nationwide. It was and is, the sine qa

non " wedge issue " of our time, and generates opinions and feelings

accross the spectrum. In the main, the issue has divided the country

into two distinct camps: the " Pro-Choice " movement, made up

primarily of women's advocacy groups such as NOW and others, who

posits that abortion - the ability to choose it as an option - is a

fundament of women's rights. On the other side, is the " Pro-Life "

movement, made up of mainly rightwing politicians and religious

groups, who takes the position that not only is abortion morally

wrong, but it also negates the human rights of the unborn. Both

sides have been locked in what can only be described as a mortal

battle for the hearts, minds and votes of the American public - and

with President George W. Bush firmly in place for a 2nd term, with

Supreme Court appointments being a certainty during his " 2nd watch "

and with a GOP majority in both Houses of Congress, it seems all but

assured that Roe V. Wade, as we know it, is likely to change.

 

And indeed it has - in just over the past 4 years (the span of

Bush's first term) the GOP have made inroads in this direction,

bringing much attention and focus on the so-called " partial-birth

abortion " (actually very late term abortion procedures, still

something that is hotly debated at various levels in the political,

religious and medical communities), and, last year, passed the " Laci

and Connor Law " , so named after Laci Peterson and her unborn son

Connor, for which Scott Peterson was accused and convicted of

murdering. The law would now bring added punitive penalties to

anyone who killed a pregnant woman - in essence, the ! ! assail an t would

be charged with double murder. This move was and is seen by those on

the pro-choice side as an attempt to whittle away at the core

premise of the Roe v. Wade decision, doing an end-run around the

Supreme Court. With so much at stake for all concerned, it is most

interesting indeed to see what Astrology - and perhaps at least as

importantly - what Astrologers - have to say about this most

pressing issue.

 

OK, Full Disclosure - my personal position is that I am what would

be considered, for the most part, " pro-life " - I feel that Life

begins at conception, the joining of sperm and egg, and that this is

truly a Sign of the Divine at work. Therefore, while I am a strong

advocate of birth control, I do not regard abortion as such nor do I

condone or endorse it. That being said, I do recognize times when

abortion is understandable, such as in the cases of rape, incest

and/or situations where the mother and/or baby's life is in grave

danger as a result of a medical condition. Most Americans " in the

middle " would tend to agree with my stance, according to the many

opinion polls conducted in recent months and years. Still, those on

the fringes of the debate - who are far and away more influential

than their more moderate countrymen/women - continue to define the

issue in the most narrow of terms (the pro-choice side demanding

that a woman has a right to an abortion under any circumstance she

chooses, while the pro-life side demands that a woman must go

through with her pregnancy regardless of the circumstances). Such

shrill voices cloud an already murky topic.

 

Astrology's premise rests on the notion that something - or in this

case, someone - is born with the qualities inherent in that moment,

and we capture this moment in terms of the current positions of the

planets at the location where the birth takes place. For us,

conception or gestation is not the focus of our work - it ! is ! whe n

the person is born, that concerns us most. But that's only one part

of the story, at least as far as the Human element of Astrology

goes. Because, while the mechanics of Astrology operates in terms of

the born, we astrologers are often called upon to deal with the

unborn as well. Think about it - if you're a working astrologer, you

know you have been consulted in these matters more than once in your

career - and if you're an aspiring astrologer, you can be certain

that you deal with such cases in the times to come. So it's

important to know what your approach and rationale will be in such

instances.

 

In our post-Rudhyarian, New Ager times, many among us seem to feel

that it is not our place as astrologers to judge, moralize or

otherwise " tell " the client what to do; many of the more " helping

profession " enhanced in our ranks are of the view that to do any of

this is to lose objectivity, to bring personal judgements, morally

and otherwise, into the equation, potentially demoralizing the

client. It is my position, that not only is such a stance dishonest

with respect to Astrology's premise, history and position, but that

it is also cowardly not to take a position, one side or the other,

opting out instead for a metaphysical relativism that relieves us of

taking a side.

 

The idea that Astrology should not be " subjective " is a complete

misnomer, if not out and out intellectually dishonest, and if you

don't believe that, just strikeup