2-debbie M, re.....Should we be non-judgemental?, Mark Kincaid

[Guest guest]

Dear Deb:

 

Mmmmmm, it would be very interesting to look at abortion from a Jyotish, or natural Astrological point of view.

 

As I understand 'sex' from the Vedic point of view, sex has two grand purposes. #1, it's true to the classic understanding that 'sex' is for pro-creation. However, deep in the nature of Ved, depicted on the walls of the many temples, throughout India, Shiva and Mother Divine are depicted in many, many very intimate and sexually active ways....

 

And this is not thought of in any seedy, or perverse, sexual format, but rather as the ultimate expression of love, and uniting, and Union....

 

And you'll read sometimes, of the 5th and 1st houses as the houses of birth and miscarriages.

 

So, I'm sure 'abortion' is understood as well.

 

For the Vedic students, life is both reverred and yet, not feared. The Ved understands that the soul is eternal, and can never be hurt. But, the life that a soul takes by coming here is very precious.

 

I heard my Maharishi, comment last year, in a special interview with Larry King of CNN, who asked him how he felt about his good friend George Harrison's passing and all those innocent souls who were killed in 9-11.

 

Maharishi didn't miss a beat when he said: " No one can be dealt any karma that is not there own. And the purpose of human life is to be born, again and again, until perfection is reached. "

 

However, later when being asked about death and killing Maharishi also said: " It is a great sin to kill a man, because in killing you disrupt that man's great potential to unfold the latent Divine, that exists within. "

 

I just loved that expression because in all my study and readings, I never heard a better reason for not killing.

 

You said: From a karmic point of view, does such a situation not offer valuable growth and learning for all who are part of the process? As astrologers should we be non-judgemental?

 

I agree, we should learn and understand this process, too, but, as I said in my first correspondence to Mu, I believe, we represent the values of Nature,....and are striving to better understand, what Nature itself, revers.....and.....holds dear.

 

Jai Guru

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

" Deborah McGregor " <deborah.mcgregor

 

Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:16:41 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)

 

Re: The Astrology of Roe v. Wade: Three Decades Later

 

 

 

A fascinating piece.

 

I am involved in conducting funeral services as an Independent Funeral Officiant. I work very closely with the deceased's family and time and time again hear stories that have convinced me of the soul's " free will " to chose when to leave the physical body.

 

I have no strong opinions either pro-life or pro-abortion. Could it be though that abortion is just one of the many " mechanics " of the universe that support the soul in exercising its free will? From a karmic point of view, does such a situation not offer valuable growth and learning for all who are part of the process? As astrologers should we be non-judgemental?

 

Just musing

 

Debbie

 

----

 

 

01/24/05 08:25:24

 

The Astrology of Roe v. Wade: Three Decades Later

 

 

The Astrology of Roe v. Wade: Three Decades Later

 

2:14 AM 1/23/05 Sun

 

This weekend marks the 32nd anniversary of the landmark Roe v. Wade

Supreme Court ruling, which grants medically safe abortions to any

woman who wants them, nationwide. It was and is, the sine qa

non " wedge issue " of our time, and generates opinions and feelings

accross the spectrum. In the main, the issue has divided the country

into two distinct camps: the " Pro-Choice " movement, made up

primarily of women's advocacy groups such as NOW and others, who

posits that abortion - the ability to choose it as an option - is a

fundament of women's rights. On the other side, is the " Pro-Life "

movement, made up of mainly rightwing politicians and religious

groups, who takes the position that not only is abortion morally

wrong, but it also negates the human rights of the unborn. Both

sides have been locked in what can only be described as a mortal

battle for the hearts, minds and votes of the American public - and

with President George W. Bush firmly in place for a 2nd term, with

Supreme Court appointments being a certainty during his " 2nd watch "

and with a GOP majority in both Houses of Congress, it seems all but

assured that Roe V. Wade, as we know it, is likely to change.

 

And indeed it has - in just over the past 4 years (the span of

Bush's first term) the GOP have made inroads in this direction,

bringing much attention and focus on the so-called " partial-birth

abortion " (actually very late term abortion procedures, still

something that is hotly debated at various levels in the political,

religious and medical communities), and, last year, passed the " Laci

and Connor Law " , so named after Laci Peterson and her unborn son

Connor, for which Scott Peterson was accused and convicted of

murdering. The law would now bring added punitive penalties to

anyone who killed a pregnant woman - in essence, the assailant would

be charged with double murder. This move was and is seen by those on

the pro-choice side as an attempt to whittle away at the core

premise of the Roe v. Wade decision, doing an end-run around the

Supreme Court. With so much at stake for all concerned, it is most

interesting indeed to see what Astrology - and perhaps at least as

importantly - what Astrologers - have to say about this most

pressing issue.

 

OK, Full Disclosure - my personal position is that I am what would

be considered, for the most part, " pro-life " - I feel that Life

begins at conception, the joining of sperm and egg, and that this is

truly a Sign of the Divine at work. Therefore, while I am a strong

advocate of birth control, I do not regard abortion as such nor do I

condone or endorse it. That being said, I do recognize times when

abortion is understandable, such as in the cases of rape, incest

and/or situations where the mother and/or baby's life is in grave

danger as a result of a medical condition. Most Americans " in the

middle " would tend to agree with my stance, according to the many

opinion polls conducted in recent months and years. Still, those on

the fringes of the debate - who are far and away more influential

than their more moderate countrymen/women - continue to define the

issue in the most narrow of terms (the pro-choice side demanding

that a woman has a right to an abortion under any circumstance she

chooses, while the pro-life side demands that a woman must go

through with her pregnancy regardless of the circumstances). Such

shrill voices cloud an already murky topic.

 

Astrology's premise rests on the notion that something - or in this

case, someone - is born with the qualities inherent in that moment,

and we capture this moment in terms of the current positions of the

planets at the location where the birth takes place. For us,

conception or gestation is not the focus of our work - it is when

the person is born, that concerns us most. But that's only one part

of the story, at least as far as the Human element of Astrology

goes. Because, while the mechanics of Astrology operates in terms of

the born, we astrologers are often called upon to deal with the

unborn as well. Think about it - if you're a working astrologer, you

know you have been consulted in these matters more than once in your

career - and if you're an aspiring astrologer, you can be certain

that you deal with such cases in the times to come. So it's

important to know what your approach and rationale will be in such

instances.

 

In our post-Rudhyarian, New Ager times, many among us seem to feel

that it is not our place as astrologers to judge, moralize or

otherwise " tell " the client what to do; many of the more " helping

profession " enhanced in our ranks are of the view that to do any of

this is to lose objectivity, to bring personal judgements, morally

and otherwise, into the equation, potentially demoralizing the

client. It is my position, that not only is such a stance dishonest

with respect to Astrology's premise, history and position, but that

it is also cowardly not to take a position, one side or the other,

opting out instead for a metaphysical relativism that relieves us of

taking a side.

 

The idea that Astrology should not be " subjective " is a complete

misnomer, if not out and out intellectually dishonest, and if you

don't believe that, just strikeup a conversation with your garden

variety astronomer. He/she is very likely to scoff at your

commentary on the Full Moon, laugh in your face about what the

symbolism of Mercury Rx means, and look at you as if you had a third

eye in the middle of your forehead if you were to try to explain the

theory of Houses to him/her. The reason for all this is simple -

Astrology itself IS subjective. The Planets mean nothing, until we

down here on Earth put meaning into them. It is the Hum