2-Mu & All, re....The Astrology of Roe v. Wade: Three Decades Later, Mark Kincaid

January 24, 2005

Dear Mu & All:

See below:

" MuMin Bey " <mumin_bey

Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:22:43 -0000

The Astrology of Roe v. Wade: Three Decades Later

2:14 AM 1/23/05 Sun

This weekend marks the 32nd anniversary of the landmark Roe v. Wade

Supreme Court ruling, which grants medically safe abortions to any

woman who wants them, nationwide. It was and is, the sine qa

non " wedge issue " of our time, and generates opinions and feelings

accross the spectrum. In the main, the issue has divided the country

into two distinct camps: the " Pro-Choice " movement, made up

primarily of women's advocacy groups such as NOW and others, who

posits that abortion - the ability to choose it as an option - is a

fundament of women's rights. On the other side, is the " Pro-Life "

movement, made up of mainly rightwing politicians and religious

groups, who takes the position that not only is abortion morally

wrong, but it also negates the human rights of the unborn. Both

sides have been locked in what can only be described as a mortal

battle for the hearts, minds and votes of the American public - and

with President George W. Bush firmly in place for a 2nd term, with

Supreme Court appointments being a certainty during his " 2nd watch "

and with a GOP majority in both Houses of Congress, it seems all but

assured that Roe V. Wade, as we know it, is likely to change.

And indeed it has - in just over the past 4 years (the span of

Bush's first term) the GOP have made inroads in this direction,

bringing much attention and focus on the so-called " partial-birth

abortion " (actually very late term abortion procedures, still

something that is hotly debated at various levels in the political,

religious and medical communities), and, last year, passed the " Laci

and Connor Law " , so named after Laci Peterson and her unborn son

Connor, for which Scott Peterson was accused and convicted of

murdering. The law would now bring added punitive penalties to

anyone who killed a pregnant woman - in essence, the assailant would

be charged with double murder. This move was and is seen by those on

the pro-choice side as an attempt to whittle away at the core

premise of the Roe v. Wade decision, doing an end-run around the

Supreme Court. With so much at stake for all concerned, it is most

interesting indeed to see what Astrology - and perhaps at least as

importantly - what Astrologers - have to say about this most

pressing issue.

OK, Full Disclosure - my personal position is that I am what would

be considered, for the most part, " pro-life " - I feel that Life

begins at conception, the joining of sperm and egg, and that this is

truly a Sign of the Divine at work. Therefore, while I am a strong

advocate of birth control, I do not regard abortion as such nor do I

condone or endorse it. That being said, I do recognize times when

abortion is understandable, such as in the cases of rape, incest

and/or situations where the mother and/or baby's life is in grave

danger as a result of a medical condition. Most Americans " in the

middle " would tend to agree with my stance, according to the many

opinion polls conducted in recent months and years. Still, those on

the fringes of the debate - who are far and away more influential

than their more moderate countrymen/women - continue to define the

issue in the most narrow of terms (the pro-choice side demanding

that a woman has a right to an abortion under any circumstance she

chooses, while the pro-life side demands that a woman must go

through with her pregnancy regardless of the circumstances). Such

shrill voices cloud an already murky topic.

Astrology's premise rests on the notion that something - or in this

case, someone - is born with the qualities inherent in that moment,

and we capture this moment in terms of the current positions of the

planets at the location where the birth takes place.

Well, put....

For us,

conception or gestation is not the focus of our work - it is when

the person is born,

In Jyotish, or Eastern Astrology,.... conception,....is sometimes reflected upon,...

in the Astrology.....

that concerns us most. But that's only one part

of the story, at least as far as the Human element of Astrology

goes. Because, while the mechanics of Astrology operates in terms of

the born, we astrologers are often called upon to deal with the

unborn as well.

There is one other interesting aspect to this theme....

And that's this Astrological idea that the birth reflects one's life.

I know a number of individuals who have tried manipulating the birth time, through

c-sections, for example, to better influence the birth chart....

This is not a very good thing, as it's not the better planetary configurations that's the reason why we're born,...but it's the challenges and even the struggles, that are also part of our supreme reason for taking birth.

Though it may be really, just in the Stars, for some to have parents who want to manipulate one's birth, ....in other words....

it may be in someone's chart, to try and manipulate life that way....

I asked an Eastern Astrological advanced student, what Jyotish said really defined the actual, birth time, and she said.... " when the complete body of the child has left the womb of the Mother! "

" Then, you make the Jyotish chart. " , she said...

Think about it - if you're a working astrologer, you

know you have been consulted in these matters more than once in your

career - and if you're an aspiring astrologer, you can be certain

that you deal with such cases in the times to come. So it's

important to know what your approach and rationale will be in such

instances.

There are probably as many different political and ethical views of Astrologers, as there

are people, too!

but,...I'm drawn towards wondering if Jyotish, itself, has any opinions...

What I love the most about Jyotish, is the fact, that it's supposed to be about 'Nature's' natural value judgements.

Jyotish does have all these rules and principles, but ultimately they amount to a value system.

This planet represents a Planet in balance whereas this Planetary configuration represents one that is weak, or underdeveloped, certainly at least, needing improvement...

With 'this', then, the opinion, that one needs to change one's 'malefic' ways,....is a natural judgement, not based on man's opinions, or opinions of Astrologers.... because Eastern Astrology was made up by certain people in the past...

The Jyotish, or Vedic vision of Astrology is that the rules, and principles of Astrology, are nature, made, or come from 'Nature' herself...

In other words, the value judgements, of Jyotish,... which are the essence of real, subjectivity.... are... as some have said...just the laws of nature....

as to Consciousness, and souls, and human birth, and life purpose...

In our post-Rudhyarian, New Ager times, many among us seem to feel

that it is not our place as astrologers to judge, moralize or

otherwise " tell " the client what to do; many of the more " helping

profession " enhanced in our ranks are of the view that to do any of

this is to lose objectivity, to bring personal judgements, morally

and otherwise, into the equation, potentially demoralizing the

client.

Well put...

It is my position, that not only is such a stance dishonest

with respect to Astrology's premise, history and position, but that

it is also cowardly not to take a position, one side or the other,

opting out instead for a metaphysical relativism that relieves us of

taking a side.

I agree whole heartily..... but as you I'm sure know...

it's tricky,....to be sure, not to inject one's own values and standards, and only,....

to represent Jyotish's,...or Astrology's....Natural....

value, judgements....

Because Nature does judge this or that as being better....

We go a certain speed, and nature seems to support,....

We go too fast, and baam!, we have an accident!

And we're so shocked.... cuz we thought we were going okay....

but Nature, and Jyotish and Astrology, to me,...are all about,....showing us, the real wisdom,

of our actions,....from the past,....ie our charts...

and even in the present and the future....

This is literally how I view, the consequences of our actions.... with each planet....

are the ways in which .....'Nature' shows us how we're doing,....what's more right for us....

from the Vedic point of view....is that which is literally, more in-tune with our charts...

or

more in-tune with Nature....

and thus, more evolutionary!

Because the true source of judgement according to the Ved....is that which evolves life...

towards more and more bliss, happiness, pure wisdom,.... and ultimately,...enlightenment...!

The idea that Astrology should not be " subjective " is a complete

misnomer, if not out and out intellectually dishonest, and if you

don't believe that, just strikeup a conversation with your garden

variety astronomer. He/she is very likely to scoff at your

commentary on the Full Moon, laugh in your face about what the

symbolism of Mercury Rx means, and look at you as if you had a third

eye in the middle of your forehead if you were to try to explain the

theory of Houses to him/her. The reason for all this is simple -

Astrology itself IS subjective.

Beautiful!!!

In fact I believe Astrology is the pure science of 'subjectivity'....

My Guru has always said there is not only a great need for understanding in the objective field but in the Subjective, as well.....

Meditation is, in fact, the main technique for unfolding more and more of the inherent power, of our subjective Selves!

Jyotish helps in that endeavor...

But, Astrology is also very objective....

It doesn't depend upon the subjective whims of individuals,....it's there, contained in Nature, itself, and like all the other sciences.... is able to be studied, and approached....objectively, too!

Astrology is very unique however, because it's both subjective and objective...

When I first came into contact with Jyotish, many years ago, in India....

I came away from that experience,.....thinking.....and aha,....I thought,.... " wow, I think Jyotish is Eastern Psychology! " .....

I exclaimed, to a friend. " I don't know " , my friend Skip said. He was the head of the Department of Psychology at Maharishi International University, at the time.

A few years later, he flagged me down on the street, and said: " Guess what, Mark!....... Maharishi's now describing Jyotish....as Vedic Psychology! "

The Planets mean nothing, until we

down here on Earth put meaning into them. It is the Human that makes

Astrology go, that makes it work, that makes it relevant down here.

And it is this " subjectivity " that our clients want from us.

Yes, I'd agree, that it's through our subjectivity, through our value judgements, that we 'see', in Nature,....the meaning or Astrology....of the Astronomy of the Universe....

However, I believe it's also true that this subjectivity,....is there, regardless of whether there's anyone there, to see it.

And that's why Astrology is really objective as well as subjective.

We may 'believe' that the Moon's represent individuals, emotional strength, or emotional maturity, within.

But a study investigating say 1,000 people who know nothing about Astrology, would still find that their individual charts and Moons, do really capture the inherent emotional maturity that they were born with!

And this is one of the things that has to happen to Astrology,....that it has to become more objective, and in meeting modern Science,...will show itself, to be the ultimate,.... pure of first science...

In fact, all the sciences, are there within Jyotish.

All the houses, include literally, each and every aspect of life, including each modern, objective science.

Jyotish is often described as the 'eye' of the Ved, and as such does contain the essence of all others...

In an age when many in our time are wary to discuss their

relationship to God, Astrology's past is replete with some of its

most revered names frequently calling on God to guide their hand.

William Lilly often made mention of this in his many writings, as

did Abu-Mashar; it is very hard to miss the many overt references to

God in so many of the Vedic astrological writs, both classical and

modern; and so much more. Astrology is, as a subject, an 8th House

matter, but its function to the general public is decidedly 9th

House - and, as we all know, this House, more than any other, is the

House most directly related to God. It is the House of Higher

Knowledge, of Wisdom, of Insight. When people come to us, these are

the things they most often seek, particularly those who are pressed

to make such life-altering decisions such as to abort or not to

abort.

Well said, and I agree, whole heartily.

Also, I believe it's important we learn to interpret people's charts, very purely, so we can advise them, as objectively as possible even about very important issues.

In other words, is it going to be smooth or easy, for them, to bring this new child into this life?

Not that the birthing has to be easy, but, the nature of the future time periods, being well understood by Jyotish helps us understand what we're going to be facing...

In my own practice, I make it very clear what my position is

on such issues upfront, and then advise the client that she has

every right to seek counsel elsewhere if that is her choice. While

some have indeed done just that, there are just as many that are

very happy about my approach and thanked me for not " sitting on the

fence " .

I think if people come to understand, our 'opinions' are really not just our own,

but are intrinsely wrapped up in the values, opinions, especially even, the judgements of Astrology, itself....

then, that's really why people come to us...

We represent Nature, herself....

And as such, like a Guru, who has learned how to climb out of his own, narrow, individual, subjectivity....

he/she, has learned how to climb into the pure, unbiased, subjectivity,...of pure Consciousness....which is the literal, domain,....of pure Jyotish...

or Natue's Astrology.....

The Roe v. Wade decision came down on Jan 22, 1973 in Washington DC,

according to a Google internet search. No time is known, so the time

I used is set for Noon (Plac 16 Tau 24). In that map, Venus rules

the Asc and is placed in the 9th Peregrine (unaspected, dominating

the horoscope in terms of its symbolism - clearly, this represents

women) with Jupiter in the 9th (Supreme Court) square Uranus in

Libra in the 6th (Jupiter-Uranus anything connotes technology, in

this case, reproductive techology; this period also saw, among other

things, " The Pill " , etc.; The Uranus-in-Libra period saw massive

upheavals in the American social, marital and particularly familial

fabric that we are only now beginning to comprehend), and, the event

is defined in the main by the t-square of Moon-Mars-Saturn, the Moon

in the 5th, square the Mars-Saturn axis. This aspect, then -

Moon=Mars/Saturn - is the abortion signature in astrological terms.

The Moon is in the universal Sign of Health matters, Virgo, and

classically, the Moon in Virgo was not considered a particularly

fertile Sign. The Mars-Saturn emphasis suggests " matters of death " ,

and abortion is indeed the willful termination of a pregnancy.

At the time in the United States horoscope - well, one of them

anyway (using the " Sibly " variant, Jul 4 1776 5.10pm LMT

Phildelphia, PA; Plac 12 Sag 19, Campion) - the Roe v. Wade decision

was reflected with striking astrological measurements. Among other

things, Solar Arc (SA) Venus=Jupiter/Pluto, a clear signal of

victory for Women's Rights in the abortion fight (Venus rules the

10th; exact Mar 1972), backed up with SA Moon (women again, exact

Sep 1973)=Asc, bringing their concerns into the forefront. SA

Moon=Pluto, exact in Dec 1973, also reflected the nature of the

period, in this case, power of reproduction itself; note the Moon's

rulership of the national 8th House, both symbolizing " death " but as

well, sparking the national debate on " values " . Transit Uranus was

also square Mercury, ruling the national 9th (Courts again) with

Uranus ruling the national 3rd (change of mindset). Finally, note

the transit position of Pluto in Jan of 1973, having just squared

Venus and now square Jupiter, the chart ruler (tremendous change of

direction regarding reproductive issues). Comparing the Roe v. Wade

chart to that of the Sibly variant of the USA, the contacts are

formidable - the RVW Mars-Saturn axis straddles the Sibly USA's Asc-

Dsc axis, while the RVW Moon exactly conjuncts the Sibly USA's

Neptune in the 9th and squares its Mars in the 7th as well. Mars

rules the national 5th House - children, sex, etc. This last

contact, the Moon-Mars square going accross the charts, is the

acrimony between the people of the USA and the issue of abortion. In

the years since that landmark decision, the rhetoric on both sides

has been ratcheted up, and the heat has risen to a rolling boil. The

times are ripe for a drastic change, one way or the other.

There is little doubt that Chief Justice Rehnquist will retire soon;

additionally, there are at least two more Justices who will step

down before Bush's 2nd term ends. All that is needed is just one

more Conservative vote on the bench to ensure either the radical

redefinition of Roe v. Wade or its overturning outright. The GOP has

a clear majority - and mandate - from the American electorate, not

seen since the early half of the last century. And the Democratic

Party, literally a shadow of its former self, can do little to stop

the seachanges afoot. In the past four years, Roe v. Wade's chart

has seen a Saturn Return and a pass or two from transit Pluto in

square to its Moon, and these have reflected (along with the transit

square of Neptune to the RVW Asc) the " whittling away " that the pro-

choicers have complained about. The shifts are only beginning.

There is every reason to expect the " re-fit " of Roe v. Wade to take

place between Oct 2005 and Feb-Mar 2008; reasons for this are as

follows:

Sibly USA chart - SA Moon=Saturn Oct 2005, with transit (Tr) Saturn

opposed Pluto, Summer 2005, Tr Uranus square its natal position all

year, and Tr Pluto square the national Neptune in the 9th (the major

shakeup with respect to the Supreme Court), also all year. In 2008

(Mar-May): Tr Pluto conjunct the national MC, a major time of change

of overall perspective.

Roe v. Wade chart - SA Sun=Neptune Dec 2006 (suggesting

a " weakening " in this case, Roe v. Wade's power - Sun=power), with

Tr Pluto square RVW's Moon late Summer-Fall 2005, Tr Saturn square

RVW's Uranus and Tr Uranus square RVW's Neptune, again in 2005; SA

Sun=Uranus (separation, sudden endings) exact Feb 2008; Tr Uranus

square RVW Moon, Tr Saturn same.

GWB 2nd Inaugural chart (Jan 20 2005 12Noon EST Washington DC; Plac

14 Tau 02, Public Record) - SA MC=Sun (applying) 2008, with the Sun

Peregrine in Aquarius (Human Rights) ruling the national 5th House!

Tr Saturn-Uranus square the Inaugural Mars-Pluto conjunction in the

8th House, particularly toward the end of the year (2008). Keep in

mind, Saturn rules both the 9th and 10th Houses of the Inaugural

chart (the Supreme Court and President, respectively).

George W. Bush (Jul 6 1946 7.26am EDT New Haven, CT; Plac 7 Leo 7,

Rodden) - SA Sun=Saturn (illumination of conservatism; keep in mind,

GWB's Saturn is Peregrine yet square his MC (in Cancer, the Sign of

children, family, etc.); his chart reflects the national character

and comings and goings as well; Sun rules his Asc) Sep 2006 with Tr

Saturn conjunct his Asc, Mercury, Pluto and Venus all that year.

In short, putting together the reality of the situation along with

an extensive and impressive array of astrological evidence, it is

very difficult to see Roe v. Wade continuing to exist in its current

form. Change, it seems, is inevitable.

In any event, no matter where Roe v. Wade ends up, what is certain

is the fact that the very existence of abortion in our times is an

admission of failure; failure to make sure that both women and men

get unfettered access to birth control when they want it, failure to

provide substantive sex education to all who need it, and most of

all, failure to care for the children who are quick and among us

now.

The failure can only be compounded if we stargazers shirk our

responsibility as well.

Salaam,

Mu

Yes, indeed, let's discover our inherent natual responsibility...as Astrologers,

and as Astrological students....

It's one, that's literally, wrapped up in what Nature, herself, values and holds dear

to it's heart...

There are things that are not in-tune with Nature, and things that are not!

We are champions of this eternal knowledge,...and I pray every day, that Nature, continue to unfold to me, more and more of 'her' deep, deep truths about life!

Thanks for your wonderful thoughts and words...

Sincerely,

Mark Kincaid