2-Francoise, re. Saturn...., Mark Kincaid

[Guest guest]

Dear Francoise:

 

What I've learned to really appreciate about Saturn, is it's really 'his' job to continue making us aware of when and where we need more inner, silence and development...

 

I always assumed, of course, that Jupiter was the superior spiritual planet.

 

But, now I know, Saturn too, is probably, just as important.

 

good luck...

 

 

Mark K.

 

 

 

 

Francoise Methot <fmethot

 

Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:58:08 -0400

 

Re: 2-Francoise, re. Mars-Saturn Aspects, and Women, > Mark Kincaid

 

 

Thanks Mark :0)!

 

My life slowed (due to some setbacks) down suddenly and considerably over

the past 2 1/2 years and I've surprisingly been able to " handle it " very

well. Time will tell how I will apply this in the next phase of my life

;0)...

 

Cheers,

Francoise

 

 

On 1/16/05 15:01, " Mark Kincaid " <m.kincaid wrote:

 

>

>

> Dear Francoise:

>

> Saturn is such an important planet to understand anyway.

>

> Then add on top of that, Saturn being in the 7th....

> and then in Aries,.... and layers and layers of important

> astrological meaning comes forth.

>

> But, now, looking back after over 15 years of good Astrological

> insight, and progress, especially in terms of handling and

> transforming my malefics, I can say....

>

> these malefic areas are beginning to be the source of my

> greatest joy and accomplishment.

>

> I have felt for awhile that the malefics show us not only where our

> difficulties will be, but even more importantly where our

> 'opportunities' or areas of growth will be too!

>

> The key thing about these 'malefic' situations, or configurations,

> is the malefics represent where we're mistaken in our notions of

> how to be....

>

> Understanding this, and exactly the meaning of the houses and

> signs of our malefics helps us change, and grow in the ways in

> which we're meant to.

>

> Jyotish/Astrology in fact, has this long history of understanding

> about how to change the 'mistaken' notions that we were born

> with.

>

> Saturn, itself, most often represents lessons of ....

> balance,

> of silence,

> of timing,

> and as such, indicates where we need more balance, silence,

> and appreciation and patience....

>

> Saturn without these positive attibutes then, represents grief,

> lack of balance, unhappiness, setbacks, losses, etc.

>

> Why? to show us the effects of our actions...

>

> All planets are like this... Not necessarily positive or negative,

> but indicative of our attunement with those values.

>

> So understanding which of our Planets are acting malefically will

> help us understand where we're meant to grow.

>

> Growing intune more with Saturn means developing more

> peace, silence, balance, especially in the areas where Saturn is

> and is aspecting.

>

> One has to only experience immediately, the positive effects by

> getting more rest, learning to meditate, developing more

> patience, to see,....that even the worse kind of Saturn griefs, can

> be transformed!

>

> One also needs to be patient in the time that it takes.

>

> Because it took us awhile to get out of balance, so it generally

> takes some time to re-create balance.

>

> But, Vedic Knowledge is all about exactly how we can achieve

> more inner and outer, physical, mental and even emotional

> balance, and as we do this, immediately, Saturn starts being

> more positive!

>

> Nature is this huge feedback system, and learning how to better

> interpret the Saturn lessons, is a great accomplishment!

>

> hope this helps...

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

> founder Nature's Astrology

> m.kincaid

> 641 472-0000

>

>

>

>

>

> In , " Francoise "

> <fmethot@n...> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Mu and all,

>>

>> From my own experience, I can say that a Mars-Saturn

> connection (conjuntion

>> or other) does lead to challenges...I have Saturn in 7th (Aries),

> Mars in 2nd

>> (Scorpio)...my Saturn is just a few minutes behind my Sun in

> the 7th house of

>> relationships...In most of my relationships with men, I've had

> the feeling of

>> having the " rug pulled out from under me " ....a Vedic astrologer

> once told me

>> that this is my Saturn working (also lord of my 5th house).

>>

>> Anyhow, I can agree with Patrice and Debra in that my

> relationships with men

>> have been challenging. I'm 35, so I have not had the

> experience of being with

>> anyone as long as Patrice and Debra have, but have had two

> longer term

>> relationships of 4 and 3 years....

>>

>> I think I've sent my chart to you earlier this year and you did

> make the

>> comment that my relationships must have been " interesting " in

> the very least.

>> That they have! ;0)

>>

>> I'll send you my birth information if it can be of use in your

> research. Just let

>> me know.

>>

>> Thanks for your insightful articles!!

>> Francoise

>>

>>

>>

>> , " Debra "

> <dqm51> wrote:

>>>

>>> Dear Mu,

>>>

>>> I have to agree with Patrice. I have in Rasi: Saturn, Neptune

> in

>>> lst hse, Virgo; opposite Jupiter in 7th hse, Pisces; Mars,

> Uranus in

>>> 10th hse, Gemini, squaring both lst hse Saturn and 7th hse

> Jupiter

>>>

>>> Difficult, YES. Impossible, NO. Challenging is more the term.

>>>

>>> When I was younger, I did have rocky relationships of

> personal

>>> insecurities with a healthy dose of temper and arrogance.

> Also, a

>>> deep love I had took three years of knowing and 11 months

> of

>>> marriage to get him out of my system.

>>>

>>> I have been married now for 30yrs to my husband - that I feel

> really

>>> has been my only one. The years come and go. Some are

> better than

>>> others. However, that is with any relationship. My husband

> has Sun

>>> with Rahu in Taurus, 11th hse - opposite Moon, Ketu in

> Scorpio, 5th

>>> house. His Mars in 10th hse Aries square Saturn in Cancer,

> lst hse.

>>>

>>> I believe we are soul mates. We are glued to the hip for

> better or

>>> worse. The years have proven to be some kind of karma we

> needed to

>>> work out together AND, most importantly, even with all the

>>> frustrations and life's realities often getting in the way; we

> have

>>> learned and are better people because of our connection. As

> a

>>> couple, we have proven to be a powerhouse to others.

> Privately, we

>>> have deep respect for each other and I think that is what

> more than

>>> any other reason has kept us together. Even, above that

>>> interdependence component and family commitment.

>>>

>>> We have had to really work on our relationship, learn to give

> and

>>> forgive, accept even when we don't agree and not roll our

> eyes too

>>> much or have temper tantrums when our thinking processes

> are greatly

>>> different. No matter how much we have wanted to throw

> each other

>>> out. Or, more accurately, leave.

>>>

>>> I think too, it's a process of maturity to work through a lot of

>>> individual insecurities, personal illusions and

> self-knowledge. (Not

>>> necessarily a doomsday outlook of incompatibility) As we get

> older

>>> we get better individually and for me - my primary job of

> raising

>>> children and running a household is winding down to where I

> can

>>> take the time and effort to better care for my self individually

>>> and therefore hopefully be a better companion to my

> husband.

>>>

>>> Finally, I believe that an individual's astrological chart and

>>> therefore, their relationships with other's and their

> astrological

>>> charts is a very complex matrix and not easily divided into

> small

>>> increments of absolutes.

>>>

>>> Tendencies maybe, predisposition sometimes.

> Environment and learned

>>> behavior - yes - huge.

>>>

>>> But what is learned can be altered by new learning and

> environment.

>>>

>>> Debra!

>>>

>>>

>>> , " Patrice Curry "

>>> <patricecurry@c...> wrote:

>>>> Hi Mu,

>>>>

>>>> I have this in my chart having Mars, Venus, and Saturn

> conjoined

>>> in my 2H, and in Virgo, I think you've seen my chart before.

>>>>

>>>> Only writing briefly to say that although when younger I did

> have

>>> very bad experiences, horrid first marriage, and a couple of

> other

>>> bad relationships, I think it's important for women who have

> this in

>>> their charts to know this is not something that means their

>>> relationships will always and forever be horrid. I have been

> with my

>>> 2nd husband for nearly 20 years and in a very loving and

> wonderful

>>> relationship, supportive, etc..

>>>>

>>>> It's true that this relationship began at age 33 when I met

> him,

>>> which I'm told by some is the best age for a woman with

> respect to

>>> kuja dosha, which I do have and it's canceled, and my

> husband also

>>> has it, and for him canceled as well, so we're equal with

> respect to

>>> our own kuja doshas severity and cancellations. He was 29,

> the age

>>> I'm told is best for men with respect to kuja dosha... I've seen

> a

>>> few opinions on the ages but this is one of the stated

> opinions for

>>> age, and certainly was true in my personal experience.

>>>>

>>>> Andrew Lynn also talks about this along with Mars mutual

> aspect

>>> with Jupiter, which I do have as well on these planets, Jupiter

> in

>>> 8H Pisces, and his point is that women with this can make

> hasty,

>>> unprepared and poor choices with respect to men and I did

> do that as

>>> well, marrying my first husband after only knowing him for 3

> months.

>>>>

>>>> But again, I want to make the clear point that this doesn't

>>> necessarily mean women with these planets won't ever have

> a good

>>> relationship or will only be either victims or incredibly

>>> controlling etc..

>>>>

>>>> Kindest regards,

>>>> Patrice

>>>>

>>>> Mars-Saturn Aspects, and Women

>>>>

>>>> 11:32 AM 1/3/2005 Mon

>>>>

>>>> Hi All,

>>>>

>>>> I was sitting with Zam, shooting the breeze and looking

> over some

>>>> charts in his

>>>>

>>>> database, and we noticed quite a few charts that belonged

> to

>>> ladies

>>>> who had Mars

>>>>

>>>> and Saturn in hard aspect (conjunction, square, opposition,

> and

>>>> Quindecile). In

>>>>

>>>> EVERY case he had - quite a few - these women had

> protracted " men

>>>> problems " . He

>>>>

>>>> had quite a story to tell about each, and, to date, none of

> them

>>> has

>>>> had a

>>>>

>>>> satisfying relationship.

>>>>

>>>> Over the years, I have found that one of the old holdovers

> from

>>>> Classical Western

>>>>

>>>> Astrology tends to hold true - that whenever in the chart of a

>>> woman

>>>> you see Mars

>>>>

>>>> and Saturn in hard aspect, you can reasonably expect her

> to have

>>>> relationship

>>>>

>>>> difficulty. This was because Mars represents men, and

> Saturn

>>>> represents obstacles,

>>>>

>>>> delays and overall difficulty.

>>>>

>>>> I have seen this principle come through again and again

> and again

>>>> over the years;

>>>>

>>>> and, to be sure, other factors have to be taken into account

> -

>>>> parental axis rulers,

>>>>

>>>> planets in opposition in the parental houses, general 7th

> house

>>>> tensions, etc. But I

>>>>

>>>> HAVE seen this principle to work constantly, rarely without

> fail.

>>>>

>>>> In fact, I have found this " rule " to work EVEN WHEN THE

> 7TH HOUSE

>>> IS

>>>> COOL! Of

>>>>

>>>> course, if either Mars or Saturn rules or is in the 7th, the

>>> chances

>>>> of relationship

>>>>

>>>> problems are magnified.

>>>>

>>>> One famous lady's chart I can think of off the top of my head

> is

>>>> Julia Roberts. She

>>>>

>>>> has Cancer Asc in her Western chart, and therefore, Saturn

> has to

>>>> rule the 7th.

>>>>

>>>> Mars squares Saturn, with Mars ruling the 10th (the two

> planets

>>>> ruling angular

>>>>

>>>> houses getting even more strength). We all know her

> relationship

>>>> history with

>>>>

>>>> respect to Lyle Lovett, Kiefer Sutherland, etc.

>>>>

>>>> If Saturn is Rx - a major horoscopic condition and

> consideration

>>> for

>>>> most any chart

>>>>

>>>> to be sure - then we can expect, almost without exception,

> that

>>> the

>>>> major

>>>>

>>>> relationship difficulties are as a direct result of the father

>>> figure

>>>> being problematic in

>>>>

>>>> some way, ranging from just being out of the picture, to

> being

>>>> passive, to being

>>>>

>>>> brutally dictatorial, and so on.

>>>>

>>>> Mars being Rx, and also in aspect to Saturn in a woman's

> chart,

>>> from

>>>> what I have

>>>>

>>>> seen, seems to correlate to that woman being extremely

> passive, to

>>>> the point of the

>>>>

>>>> submissive role in S & M scenarios. Asserting one's Self is

> very

>>>> difficult to do, and if

>>>>

>>>> left to its own devices can indicate potential for all manner

> for

>>>> abuse, physical,

>>>>

>>>> emotional, verbal or otherwise.

>>>>

>>>> Of course, the Mars-Saturn aspect in a woman's chart can

> work in

>>> the

>>>> opposite

>>>>

>>>> direction, that is to say, that the woman can be the

> " dominant "

>>>> one...in fact, in one

>>>>

>>>> case that Zam talked about, a woman with the Moon and

> Asc in Cap,

>>>> Saturn (the

>>>>

>>>> Asc ruler, keep in mind) is in the 2nd/Pisces and squares

> Mars in

>>> the

>>>> 5th/Gemini,

>>>>

>>>> ruling the 3rd (mindset). As the 2nd represents

> self-esteem and

>>> the

>>>> 5th is that of

>>>>

>>>> sexual needs, expression and resources, we can reliably

> assume

>>> that

>>>> this woman

>>>>

>>>> would have pronounced trouble in these areas. According

> to what

>>> Zam

>>>> has shared

>>>>

>>>> with me, this woman has yet to have a satisfying

> relationship with

>>>> anyone, and,

>>>>

>>>> tends to be very, very controlling and domineering...clearly a

>>>> defense against

>>>>

>>>> emotional and relational insecurity.

>>>>

>>>> Sexually, so often, we see Mars-Saturn combinations

> playing

>>>> themselves out in the

>>>>

>>>> Sado-Masochistic area; the Marquis de Sade himself had,

> if I

>>> recall

>>>> alright, a hard

>>>>

>>>> Mars-Saturn aspect. If either of these planets involve

> themselves

>>>> with the Sexual

>>>>

>>>> Profile in a woman's chart (the 5th and 8th Houses, and/or

> Venus

>>> or

>>>> Pluto) we can

>>>>

>>>> expect there to be some sort of " pain/pleasure-push/pull "

> dynamic

>>> at

>>>> work sexually.

>>>>

>>>> Does anyone out there know of any ladies with such

> aspects in

>>> their

>>>> charts? Would

>>>>

>>>> you mind sharing those cases with us?

>>>>

>>>> Salaam,

>>>> Mu

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>