2-Francoise, re. Mars-Saturn Aspects, and Women, Mark Kincaid

[Guest guest]

Dear Francoise:

 

Saturn is such an important planet to understand anyway.

 

Then add on top of that, Saturn being in the 7th....

and then in Aries,.... and layers and layers of important

astrological meaning comes forth.

 

But, now, looking back after over 15 years of good Astrological

insight, and progress, especially in terms of handling and

transforming my malefics, I can say....

 

these malefic areas are beginning to be the source of my

greatest joy and accomplishment.

 

I have felt for awhile that the malefics show us not only where our

difficulties will be, but even more importantly where our

'opportunities' or areas of growth will be too!

 

The key thing about these 'malefic' situations, or configurations,

is the malefics represent where we're mistaken in our notions of

how to be....

 

Understanding this, and exactly the meaning of the houses and

signs of our malefics helps us change, and grow in the ways in

which we're meant to.

 

Jyotish/Astrology in fact, has this long history of understanding

about how to change the 'mistaken' notions that we were born

with.

 

Saturn, itself, most often represents lessons of ....

balance,

of silence,

of timing,

and as such, indicates where we need more balance, silence,

and appreciation and patience....

 

Saturn without these positive attibutes then, represents grief,

lack of balance, unhappiness, setbacks, losses, etc.

 

Why? to show us the effects of our actions...

 

All planets are like this... Not necessarily positive or negative,

but indicative of our attunement with those values.

 

So understanding which of our Planets are acting malefically will

help us understand where we're meant to grow.

 

Growing intune more with Saturn means developing more

peace, silence, balance, especially in the areas where Saturn is

and is aspecting.

 

One has to only experience immediately, the positive effects by

getting more rest, learning to meditate, developing more

patience, to see,....that even the worse kind of Saturn griefs, can

be transformed!

 

One also needs to be patient in the time that it takes.

 

Because it took us awhile to get out of balance, so it generally

takes some time to re-create balance.

 

But, Vedic Knowledge is all about exactly how we can achieve

more inner and outer, physical, mental and even emotional

balance, and as we do this, immediately, Saturn starts being

more positive!

 

Nature is this huge feedback system, and learning how to better

interpret the Saturn lessons, is a great accomplishment!

 

hope this helps...

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

founder Nature's Astrology

m.kincaid

641 472-0000

 

 

 

 

 

In , " Francoise "

<fmethot@n...> wrote:

>

> Dear Mu and all,

>

> From my own experience, I can say that a Mars-Saturn

connection (conjuntion

> or other) does lead to challenges...I have Saturn in 7th (Aries),

Mars in 2nd

> (Scorpio)...my Saturn is just a few minutes behind my Sun in

the 7th house of

> relationships...In most of my relationships with men, I've had

the feeling of

> having the " rug pulled out from under me " ....a Vedic astrologer

once told me

> that this is my Saturn working (also lord of my 5th house).

>

> Anyhow, I can agree with Patrice and Debra in that my

relationships with men

> have been challenging. I'm 35, so I have not had the

experience of being with

> anyone as long as Patrice and Debra have, but have had two

longer term

> relationships of 4 and 3 years....

>

> I think I've sent my chart to you earlier this year and you did

make the

> comment that my relationships must have been " interesting " in

the very least.

> That they have! ;0)

>

> I'll send you my birth information if it can be of use in your

research. Just let

> me know.

>

> Thanks for your insightful articles!!

> Francoise

>

>

>

> , " Debra "

<dqm51> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Mu,

> >

> > I have to agree with Patrice. I have in Rasi: Saturn, Neptune

in

> > lst hse, Virgo; opposite Jupiter in 7th hse, Pisces; Mars,

Uranus in

> > 10th hse, Gemini, squaring both lst hse Saturn and 7th hse

Jupiter

> >

> > Difficult, YES. Impossible, NO. Challenging is more the term.

> >

> > When I was younger, I did have rocky relationships of

personal

> > insecurities with a healthy dose of temper and arrogance.

Also, a

> > deep love I had took three years of knowing and 11 months

of

> > marriage to get him out of my system.

> >

> > I have been married now for 30yrs to my husband - that I feel

really

> > has been my only one. The years come and go. Some are

better than

> > others. However, that is with any relationship. My husband

has Sun

> > with Rahu in Taurus, 11th hse - opposite Moon, Ketu in

Scorpio, 5th

> > house. His Mars in 10th hse Aries square Saturn in Cancer,

lst hse.

> >

> > I believe we are soul mates. We are glued to the hip for

better or

> > worse. The years have proven to be some kind of karma we

needed to

> > work out together AND, most importantly, even with all the

> > frustrations and life's realities often getting in the way; we

have

> > learned and are better people because of our connection. As

a

> > couple, we have proven to be a powerhouse to others.

Privately, we

> > have deep respect for each other and I think that is what

more than

> > any other reason has kept us together. Even, above that

> > interdependence component and family commitment.

> >

> > We have had to really work on our relationship, learn to give

and

> > forgive, accept even when we don't agree and not roll our

eyes too

> > much or have temper tantrums when our thinking processes

are greatly

> > different. No matter how much we have wanted to throw

each other

> > out. Or, more accurately, leave.

> >

> > I think too, it's a process of maturity to work through a lot of

> > individual insecurities, personal illusions and

self-knowledge. (Not

> > necessarily a doomsday outlook of incompatibility) As we get

older

> > we get better individually and for me - my primary job of

raising

> > children and running a household is winding down to where I

can

> > take the time and effort to better care for my self individually

> > and therefore hopefully be a better companion to my

husband.

> >

> > Finally, I believe that an individual's astrological chart and

> > therefore, their relationships with other's and their

astrological

> > charts is a very complex matrix and not easily divided into

small

> > increments of absolutes.

> >

> > Tendencies maybe, predisposition sometimes.

Environment and learned

> > behavior - yes - huge.

> >

> > But what is learned can be altered by new learning and

environment.

> >

> > Debra!

> >

> >

> > , " Patrice Curry "

> > <patricecurry@c...> wrote:

> > > Hi Mu,

> > >

> > > I have this in my chart having Mars, Venus, and Saturn

conjoined

> > in my 2H, and in Virgo, I think you've seen my chart before.

> > >

> > > Only writing briefly to say that although when younger I did

have

> > very bad experiences, horrid first marriage, and a couple of

other

> > bad relationships, I think it's important for women who have

this in

> > their charts to know this is not something that means their

> > relationships will always and forever be horrid. I have been

with my

> > 2nd husband for nearly 20 years and in a very loving and

wonderful

> > relationship, supportive, etc..

> > >

> > > It's true that this relationship began at age 33 when I met

him,

> > which I'm told by some is the best age for a woman with

respect to

> > kuja dosha, which I do have and it's canceled, and my

husband also

> > has it, and for him canceled as well, so we're equal with

respect to

> > our own kuja doshas severity and cancellations. He was 29,

the age

> > I'm told is best for men with respect to kuja dosha... I've seen

a

> > few opinions on the ages but this is one of the stated

opinions for

> > age, and certainly was true in my personal experience.

> > >

> > > Andrew Lynn also talks about this along with Mars mutual

aspect

> > with Jupiter, which I do have as well on these planets, Jupiter

in

> > 8H Pisces, and his point is that women with this can make

hasty,

> > unprepared and poor choices with respect to men and I did

do that as

> > well, marrying my first husband after only knowing him for 3

months.

> > >

> > > But again, I want to make the clear point that this doesn't

> > necessarily mean women with these planets won't ever have

a good

> > relationship or will only be either victims or incredibly

> > controlling etc..

> > >

> > > Kindest regards,

> > > Patrice

> > >

> > > Mars-Saturn Aspects, and Women

> > >

> > > 11:32 AM 1/3/2005 Mon

> > >

> > > Hi All,

> > >

> > > I was sitting with Zam, shooting the breeze and looking

over some

> > > charts in his

> > >

> > > database, and we noticed quite a few charts that belonged

to

> > ladies

> > > who had Mars

> > >

> > > and Saturn in hard aspect (conjunction, square, opposition,

and

> > > Quindecile). In

> > >

> > > EVERY case he had - quite a few - these women had

protracted " men

> > > problems " . He

> > >

> > > had quite a story to tell about each, and, to date, none of

them

> > has

> > > had a

> > >

> > > satisfying relationship.

> > >

> > > Over the years, I have found that one of the old holdovers

from

> > > Classical Western

> > >

> > > Astrology tends to hold true - that whenever in the chart of a

> > woman

> > > you see Mars

> > >

> > > and Saturn in hard aspect, you can reasonably expect her

to have

> > > relationship

> > >

> > > difficulty. This was because Mars represents men, and

Saturn

> > > represents obstacles,

> > >

> > > delays and overall difficulty.

> > >

> > > I have seen this principle come through again and again

and again

> > > over the years;

> > >

> > > and, to be sure, other factors have to be taken into account

-

> > > parental axis rulers,

> > >

> > > planets in opposition in the parental houses, general 7th

house

> > > tensions, etc. But I

> > >

> > > HAVE seen this principle to work constantly, rarely without

fail.

> > >

> > > In fact, I have found this " rule " to work EVEN WHEN THE

7TH HOUSE

> > IS

> > > COOL! Of

> > >

> > > course, if either Mars or Saturn rules or is in the 7th, the

> > chances

> > > of relationship

> > >

> > > problems are magnified.

> > >

> > > One famous lady's chart I can think of off the top of my head

is

> > > Julia Roberts. She

> > >

> > > has Cancer Asc in her Western chart, and therefore, Saturn

has to

> > > rule the 7th.

> > >

> > > Mars squares Saturn, with Mars ruling the 10th (the two

planets

> > > ruling angular

> > >

> > > houses getting even more strength). We all know her

relationship

> > > history with

> > >

> > > respect to Lyle Lovett, Kiefer Sutherland, etc.

> > >

> > > If Saturn is Rx - a major horoscopic condition and

consideration

> > for

> > > most any chart

> > >

> > > to be sure - then we can expect, almost without exception,

that

> > the

> > > major

> > >

> > > relationship difficulties are as a direct result of the father

> > figure

> > > being problematic in

> > >

> > > some way, ranging from just being out of the picture, to

being

> > > passive, to being

> > >

> > > brutally dictatorial, and so on.

> > >

> > > Mars being Rx, and also in aspect to Saturn in a woman's

chart,

> > from

> > > what I have

> > >

> > > seen, seems to correlate to that woman being extremely

passive, to

> > > the point of the

> > >

> > > submissive role in S & M scenarios. Asserting one's Self is

very

> > > difficult to do, and if

> > >

> > > left to its own devices can indicate potential for all manner

for

> > > abuse, physical,

> > >

> > > emotional, verbal or otherwise.

> > >

> > > Of course, the Mars-Saturn aspect in a woman's chart can

work in

> > the

> > > opposite

> > >

> > > direction, that is to say, that the woman can be the

" dominant "

> > > one...in fact, in one

> > >

> > > case that Zam talked about, a woman with the Moon and

Asc in Cap,

> > > Saturn (the

> > >

> > > Asc ruler, keep in mind) is in the 2nd/Pisces and squares

Mars in

> > the

> > > 5th/Gemini,

> > >

> > > ruling the 3rd (mindset). As the 2nd represents

self-esteem and

> > the

> > > 5th is that of

> > >

> > > sexual needs, expression and resources, we can reliably

assume

> > that

> > > this woman

> > >

> > > would have pronounced trouble in these areas. According

to what

> > Zam

> > > has shared

> > >

> > > with me, this woman has yet to have a satisfying

relationship with

> > > anyone, and,

> > >

> > > tends to be very, very controlling and domineering...clearly a

> > > defense against

> > >

> > > emotional and relational insecurity.

> > >

> > > Sexually, so often, we see Mars-Saturn combinations

playing

> > > themselves out in the

> > >

> > > Sado-Masochistic area; the Marquis de Sade himself had,

if I

> > recall

> > > alright, a hard

> > >

> > > Mars-Saturn aspect. If either of these planets involve

themselves

> > > with the Sexual

> > >

> > > Profile in a woman's chart (the 5th and 8th Houses, and/or

Venus

> > or

> > > Pluto) we can

> > >

> > > expect there to be some sort of " pain/pleasure-push/pull "

dynamic

> > at

> > > work sexually.

> > >

> > > Does anyone out there know of any ladies with such

aspects in

> > their

> > > charts? Would

> > >

> > > you mind sharing those cases with us?

> > >

> > > Salaam,

> > > Mu

[Guest guest]

Thanks Mark :0)!

 

My life slowed (due to some setbacks) down suddenly and considerably over

the past 2 1/2 years and I've surprisingly been able to " handle it " very

well. Time will tell how I will apply this in the next phase of my life

;0)...

 

Cheers,

Francoise

 

 

On 1/16/05 15:01, " Mark Kincaid " <m.kincaid wrote:

 

>

>

> Dear Francoise:

>

> Saturn is such an important planet to understand anyway.

>

> Then add on top of that, Saturn being in the 7th....

> and then in Aries,.... and layers and layers of important

> astrological meaning comes forth.

>

> But, now, looking back after over 15 years of good Astrological

> insight, and progress, especially in terms of handling and

> transforming my malefics, I can say....

>

> these malefic areas are beginning to be the source of my

> greatest joy and accomplishment.

>

> I have felt for awhile that the malefics show us not only where our

> difficulties will be, but even more importantly where our

> 'opportunities' or areas of growth will be too!

>

> The key thing about these 'malefic' situations, or configurations,

> is the malefics represent where we're mistaken in our notions of

> how to be....

>

> Understanding this, and exactly the meaning of the houses and

> signs of our malefics helps us change, and grow in the ways in

> which we're meant to.

>

> Jyotish/Astrology in fact, has this long history of understanding

> about how to change the 'mistaken' notions that we were born

> with.

>

> Saturn, itself, most often represents lessons of ....

> balance,

> of silence,

> of timing,

> and as such, indicates where we need more balance, silence,

> and appreciation and patience....

>

> Saturn without these positive attibutes then, represents grief,

> lack of balance, unhappiness, setbacks, losses, etc.

>

> Why? to show us the effects of our actions...

>

> All planets are like this... Not necessarily positive or negative,

> but indicative of our attunement with those values.

>

> So understanding which of our Planets are acting malefically will

> help us understand where we're meant to grow.

>

> Growing intune more with Saturn means developing more

> peace, silence, balance, especially in the areas where Saturn is

> and is aspecting.

>

> One has to only experience immediately, the positive effects by

> getting more rest, learning to meditate, developing more

> patience, to see,....that even the worse kind of Saturn griefs, can

> be transformed!

>

> One also needs to be patient in the time that it takes.

>

> Because it took us awhile to get out of balance, so it generally

> takes some time to re-create balance.

>

> But, Vedic Knowledge is all about exactly how we can achieve

> more inner and outer, physical, mental and even emotional

> balance, and as we do this, immediately, Saturn starts being

> more positive!

>

> Nature is this huge feedback system, and learning how to better

> interpret the Saturn lessons, is a great accomplishment!

>

> hope this helps...

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

> founder Nature's Astrology

> m.kincaid

> 641 472-0000

>

>

>

>

>

> In , " Francoise "

> <fmethot@n...> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Mu and all,

>>

>> From my own experience, I can say that a Mars-Saturn

> connection (conjuntion

>> or other) does lead to challenges...I have Saturn in 7th (Aries),

> Mars in 2nd

>> (Scorpio)...my Saturn is just a few minutes behind my Sun in

> the 7th house of

>> relationships...In most of my relationships with men, I've had

> the feeling of

>> having the " rug pulled out from under me " ....a Vedic astrologer

> once told me

>> that this is my Saturn working (also lord of my 5th house).

>>

>> Anyhow, I can agree with Patrice and Debra in that my

> relationships with men

>> have been challenging. I'm 35, so I have not had the

> experience of being with

>> anyone as long as Patrice and Debra have, but have had two

> longer term

>> relationships of 4 and 3 years....

>>

>> I think I've sent my chart to you earlier this year and you did

> make the

>> comment that my relationships must have been " interesting " in

> the very least.

>> That they have! ;0)

>>

>> I'll send you my birth information if it can be of use in your

> research. Just let

>> me know.

>>

>> Thanks for your insightful articles!!

>> Francoise

>>

>>

>>

>> , " Debra "

> <dqm51> wrote:

>>>

>>> Dear Mu,

>>>

>>> I have to agree with Patrice. I have in Rasi: Saturn, Neptune

> in

>>> lst hse, Virgo; opposite Jupiter in 7th hse, Pisces; Mars,

> Uranus in

>>> 10th hse, Gemini, squaring both lst hse Saturn and 7th hse

> Jupiter

>>>

>>> Difficult, YES. Impossible, NO. Challenging is more the term.

>>>

>>> When I was younger, I did have rocky relationships of

> personal

>>> insecurities with a healthy dose of temper and arrogance.

> Also, a

>>> deep love I had took three years of knowing and 11 months

> of

>>> marriage to get him out of my system.

>>>

>>> I have been married now for 30yrs to my husband - that I feel

> really

>>> has been my only one. The years come and go. Some are

> better than

>>> others. However, that is with any relationship. My husband

> has Sun

>>> with Rahu in Taurus, 11th hse - opposite Moon, Ketu in

> Scorpio, 5th

>>> house. His Mars in 10th hse Aries square Saturn in Cancer,

> lst hse.

>>>

>>> I believe we are soul mates. We are glued to the hip for

> better or

>>> worse. The years have proven to be some kind of karma we

> needed to

>>> work out together AND, most importantly, even with all the

>>> frustrations and life's realities often getting in the way; we

> have

>>> learned and are better people because of our connection. As

> a

>>> couple, we have proven to be a powerhouse to others.

> Privately, we

>>> have deep respect for each other and I think that is what

> more than

>>> any other reason has kept us together. Even, above that

>>> interdependence component and family commitment.

>>>

>>> We have had to really work on our relationship, learn to give

> and

>>> forgive, accept even when we don't agree and not roll our

> eyes too

>>> much or have temper tantrums when our thinking processes

> are greatly

>>> different. No matter how much we have wanted to throw

> each other

>>> out. Or, more accurately, leave.

>>>

>>> I think too, it's a process of maturity to work through a lot of

>>> individual insecurities, personal illusions and

> self-knowledge. (Not

>>> necessarily a doomsday outlook of incompatibility) As we get

> older

>>> we get better individually and for me - my primary job of

> raising

>>> children and running a household is winding down to where I

> can

>>> take the time and effort to better care for my self individually

>>> and therefore hopefully be a better companion to my

> husband.

>>>

>>> Finally, I believe that an individual's astrological chart and

>>> therefore, their relationships with other's and their

> astrological

>>> charts is a very complex matrix and not easily divided into

> small

>>> increments of absolutes.

>>>

>>> Tendencies maybe, predisposition sometimes.

> Environment and learned

>>> behavior - yes - huge.

>>>

>>> But what is learned can be altered by new learning and

> environment.

>>>

>>> Debra!

>>>

>>>

>>> , " Patrice Curry "

>>> <patricecurry@c...> wrote:

>>>> Hi Mu,

>>>>

>>>> I have this in my chart having Mars, Venus, and Saturn

> conjoined

>>> in my 2H, and in Virgo, I think you've seen my chart before.

>>>>

>>>> Only writing briefly to say that although when younger I did

> have

>>> very bad experiences, horrid first marriage, and a couple of

> other

>>> bad relationships, I think it's important for women who have

> this in

>>> their charts to know this is not something that means their

>>> relationships will always and forever be horrid. I have been

> with my

>>> 2nd husband for nearly 20 years and in a very loving and

> wonderful

>>> relationship, supportive, etc..

>>>>

>>>> It's true that this relationship began at age 33 when I met

> him,

>>> which I'm told by some is the best age for a woman with

> respect to

>>> kuja dosha, which I do have and it's canceled, and my

> husband also

>>> has it, and for him canceled as well, so we're equal with

> respect to

>>> our own kuja doshas severity and cancellations. He was 29,

> the age

>>> I'm told is best for men with respect to kuja dosha... I've seen

> a

>>> few opinions on the ages but this is one of the stated

> opinions for

>>> age, and certainly was true in my personal experience.

>>>>

>>>> Andrew Lynn also talks about this along with Mars mutual

> aspect

>>> with Jupiter, which I do have as well on these planets, Jupiter

> in

>>> 8H Pisces, and his point is that women with this can make

> hasty,

>>> unprepared and poor choices with respect to men and I did

> do that as

>>> well, marrying my first husband after only knowing him for 3

> months.

>>>>

>>>> But again, I want to make the clear point that this doesn't

>>> necessarily mean women with these planets won't ever have

> a good

>>> relationship or will only be either victims or incredibly

>>> controlling etc..

>>>>

>>>> Kindest regards,

>>>> Patrice

>>>>

>>>> Mars-Saturn Aspects, and Women

>>>>

>>>> 11:32 AM 1/3/2005 Mon

>>>>

>>>> Hi All,

>>>>

>>>> I was sitting with Zam, shooting the breeze and looking

> over some

>>>> charts in his

>>>>

>>>> database, and we noticed quite a few charts that belonged

> to

>>> ladies

>>>> who had Mars

>>>>

>>>> and Saturn in hard aspect (conjunction, square, opposition,

> and

>>>> Quindecile). In

>>>>

>>>> EVERY case he had - quite a few - these women had

> protracted " men

>>>> problems " . He

>>>>

>>>> had quite a story to tell about each, and, to date, none of

> them

>>> has

>>>> had a

>>>>

>>>> satisfying relationship.

>>>>

>>>> Over the years, I have found that one of the old holdovers

> from

>>>> Classical Western

>>>>

>>>> Astrology tends to hold true - that whenever in the chart of a

>>> woman

>>>> you see Mars

>>>>

>>>> and Saturn in hard aspect, you can reasonably expect her

> to have

>>>> relationship

>>>>

>>>> difficulty. This was because Mars represents men, and

> Saturn

>>>> represents obstacles,

>>>>

>>>> delays and overall difficulty.

>>>>

>>>> I have seen this principle come through again and again

> and again

>>>> over the years;

>>>>

>>>> and, to be sure, other factors have to be taken into account

> -

>>>> parental axis rulers,

>>>>

>>>> planets in opposition in the parental houses, general 7th

> house

>>>> tensions, etc. But I

>>>>

>>>> HAVE seen this principle to work constantly, rarely without

> fail.

>>>>

>>>> In fact, I have found this " rule " to work EVEN WHEN THE

> 7TH HOUSE

>>> IS

>>>> COOL! Of

>>>>

>>>> course, if either Mars or Saturn rules or is in the 7th, the

>>> chances

>>>> of relationship

>>>>

>>>> problems are magnified.

>>>>

>>>> One famous lady's chart I can think of off the top of my head

> is

>>>> Julia Roberts. She

>>>>

>>>> has Cancer Asc in her Western chart, and therefore, Saturn

> has to

>>>> rule the 7th.

>>>>

>>>> Mars squares Saturn, with Mars ruling the 10th (the two

> planets

>>>> ruling angular

>>>>

>>>> houses getting even more strength). We all know her

> relationship

>>>> history with

>>>>

>>>> respect to Lyle Lovett, Kiefer Sutherland, etc.

>>>>

>>>> If Saturn is Rx - a major horoscopic condition and

> consideration

>>> for

>>>> most any chart

>>>>

>>>> to be sure - then we can expect, almost without exception,

> that

>>> the

>>>> major

>>>>

>>>> relationship difficulties are as a direct result of the father

>>> figure

>>>> being problematic in

>>>>

>>>> some way, ranging from just being out of the picture, to

> being

>>>> passive, to being

>>>>

>>>> brutally dictatorial, and so on.

>>>>

>>>> Mars being Rx, and also in aspect to Saturn in a woman's

> chart,

>>> from

>>>> what I have

>>>>

>>>> seen, seems to correlate to that woman being extremely

> passive, to

>>>> the point of the

>>>>

>>>> submissive role in S & M scenarios. Asserting one's Self is

> very

>>>> difficult to do, and if

>>>>

>>>> left to its own devices can indicate potential for all manner

> for

>>>> abuse, physical,

>>>>

>>>> emotional, verbal or otherwise.

>>>>

>>>> Of course, the Mars-Saturn aspect in a woman's chart can

> work in

>>> the

>>>> opposite

>>>>

>>>> direction, that is to say, that the woman can be the

> " dominant "

>>>> one...in fact, in one

>>>>

>>>> case that Zam talked about, a woman with the Moon and

> Asc in Cap,

>>>> Saturn (the

>>>>

>>>> Asc ruler, keep in mind) is in the 2nd/Pisces and squares

> Mars in

>>> the

>>>> 5th/Gemini,

>>>>

>>>> ruling the 3rd (mindset). As the 2nd represents

> self-esteem and

>>> the

>>>> 5th is that of

>>>>

>>>> sexual needs, expression and resources, we can reliably

> assume

>>> that

>>>> this woman

>>>>

>>>> would have pronounced trouble in these areas. According

> to what

>>> Zam

>>>> has shared

>>>>

>>>> with me, this woman has yet to have a satisfying

> relationship with

>>>> anyone, and,

>>>>

>>>> tends to be very, very controlling and domineering...clearly a

>>>> defense against

>>>>

>>>> emotional and relational insecurity.

>>>>

>>>> Sexually, so often, we see Mars-Saturn combinations

> playing

>>>> themselves out in the

>>>>

>>>> Sado-Masochistic area; the Marquis de Sade himself had,

> if I

>>> recall

>>>> alright, a hard

>>>>

>>>> Mars-Saturn aspect. If either of these planets involve

> themselves

>>>> with the Sexual

>>>>

>>>> Profile in a woman's chart (the 5th and 8th Houses, and/or

> Venus

>>> or

>>>> Pluto) we can

>>>>

>>>> expect there to be some sort of " pain/pleasure-push/pull "

> dynamic

>>> at

>>>> work sexually.

>>>>

>>>> Does anyone out there know of any ladies with such

> aspects in

>>> their

>>>> charts? Would

>>>>

>>>> you mind sharing those cases with us?

>>>>

>>>> Salaam,

>>>> Mu

>