Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Hi Mu, I have this in my chart having Mars, Venus, and Saturn conjoined in my 2H, and in Virgo, I think you've seen my chart before. Only writing briefly to say that although when younger I did have very bad experiences, horrid first marriage, and a couple of other bad relationships, I think it's important for women who have this in their charts to know this is not something that means their relationships will always and forever be horrid. I have been with my 2nd husband for nearly 20 years and in a very loving and wonderful relationship, supportive, etc.. It's true that this relationship began at age 33 when I met him, which I'm told by some is the best age for a woman with respect to kuja dosha, which I do have and it's canceled, and my husband also has it, and for him canceled as well, so we're equal with respect to our own kuja doshas severity and cancellations. He was 29, the age I'm told is best for men with respect to kuja dosha... I've seen a few opinions on the ages but this is one of the stated opinions for age, and certainly was true in my personal experience. Andrew Lynn also talks about this along with Mars mutual aspect with Jupiter, which I do have as well on these planets, Jupiter in 8H Pisces, and his point is that women with this can make hasty, unprepared and poor choices with respect to men and I did do that as well, marrying my first husband after only knowing him for 3 months. But again, I want to make the clear point that this doesn't necessarily mean women with these planets won't ever have a good relationship or will only be either victims or incredibly controlling etc.. Kindest regards, Patrice Mars-Saturn Aspects, and Women11:32 AM 1/3/2005 MonHi All, I was sitting with Zam, shooting the breeze and looking over some charts in his database, and we noticed quite a few charts that belonged to ladies who had Mars and Saturn in hard aspect (conjunction, square, opposition, and Quindecile). In EVERY case he had - quite a few - these women had protracted "men problems". He had quite a story to tell about each, and, to date, none of them has had a satisfying relationship. Over the years, I have found that one of the old holdovers from Classical Western Astrology tends to hold true - that whenever in the chart of a woman you see Mars and Saturn in hard aspect, you can reasonably expect her to have relationship difficulty. This was because Mars represents men, and Saturn represents obstacles, delays and overall difficulty. I have seen this principle come through again and again and again over the years; and, to be sure, other factors have to be taken into account - parental axis rulers, planets in opposition in the parental houses, general 7th house tensions, etc. But I HAVE seen this principle to work constantly, rarely without fail. In fact, I have found this "rule" to work EVEN WHEN THE 7TH HOUSE IS COOL! Of course, if either Mars or Saturn rules or is in the 7th, the chances of relationship problems are magnified. One famous lady's chart I can think of off the top of my head is Julia Roberts. She has Cancer Asc in her Western chart, and therefore, Saturn has to rule the 7th. Mars squares Saturn, with Mars ruling the 10th (the two planets ruling angular houses getting even more strength). We all know her relationship history with respect to Lyle Lovett, Kiefer Sutherland, etc. If Saturn is Rx - a major horoscopic condition and consideration for most any chart to be sure - then we can expect, almost without exception, that the major relationship difficulties are as a direct result of the father figure being problematic in some way, ranging from just being out of the picture, to being passive, to being brutally dictatorial, and so on. Mars being Rx, and also in aspect to Saturn in a woman's chart, from what I have seen, seems to correlate to that woman being extremely passive, to the point of the submissive role in S & M scenarios. Asserting one's Self is very difficult to do, and if left to its own devices can indicate potential for all manner for abuse, physical, emotional, verbal or otherwise. Of course, the Mars-Saturn aspect in a woman's chart can work in the opposite direction, that is to say, that the woman can be the "dominant" one...in fact, in one case that Zam talked about, a woman with the Moon and Asc in Cap, Saturn (the Asc ruler, keep in mind) is in the 2nd/Pisces and squares Mars in the 5th/Gemini, ruling the 3rd (mindset). As the 2nd represents self-esteem and the 5th is that of sexual needs, expression and resources, we can reliably assume that this woman would have pronounced trouble in these areas. According to what Zam has shared with me, this woman has yet to have a satisfying relationship with anyone, and, tends to be very, very controlling and domineering...clearly a defense against emotional and relational insecurity. Sexually, so often, we see Mars-Saturn combinations playing themselves out in the Sado-Masochistic area; the Marquis de Sade himself had, if I recall alright, a hard Mars-Saturn aspect. If either of these planets involve themselves with the Sexual Profile in a woman's chart (the 5th and 8th Houses, and/or Venus or Pluto) we can expect there to be some sort of "pain/pleasure-push/pull" dynamic at work sexually. Does anyone out there know of any ladies with such aspects in their charts? Would you mind sharing those cases with us?Salaam,Mu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Dear Mu, I have to agree with Patrice. I have in Rasi: Saturn, Neptune in lst hse, Virgo; opposite Jupiter in 7th hse, Pisces; Mars, Uranus in 10th hse, Gemini, squaring both lst hse Saturn and 7th hse Jupiter Difficult, YES. Impossible, NO. Challenging is more the term. When I was younger, I did have rocky relationships of personal insecurities with a healthy dose of temper and arrogance. Also, a deep love I had took three years of knowing and 11 months of marriage to get him out of my system. I have been married now for 30yrs to my husband - that I feel really has been my only one. The years come and go. Some are better than others. However, that is with any relationship. My husband has Sun with Rahu in Taurus, 11th hse - opposite Moon, Ketu in Scorpio, 5th house. His Mars in 10th hse Aries square Saturn in Cancer, lst hse. I believe we are soul mates. We are glued to the hip for better or worse. The years have proven to be some kind of karma we needed to work out together AND, most importantly, even with all the frustrations and life's realities often getting in the way; we have learned and are better people because of our connection. As a couple, we have proven to be a powerhouse to others. Privately, we have deep respect for each other and I think that is what more than any other reason has kept us together. Even, above that interdependence component and family commitment. We have had to really work on our relationship, learn to give and forgive, accept even when we don't agree and not roll our eyes too much or have temper tantrums when our thinking processes are greatly different. No matter how much we have wanted to throw each other out. Or, more accurately, leave. I think too, it's a process of maturity to work through a lot of individual insecurities, personal illusions and self-knowledge. (Not necessarily a doomsday outlook of incompatibility) As we get older we get better individually and for me - my primary job of raising children and running a household is winding down to where I can take the time and effort to better care for my self individually and therefore hopefully be a better companion to my husband. Finally, I believe that an individual's astrological chart and therefore, their relationships with other's and their astrological charts is a very complex matrix and not easily divided into small increments of absolutes. Tendencies maybe, predisposition sometimes. Environment and learned behavior - yes - huge. But what is learned can be altered by new learning and environment. Debra! , " Patrice Curry " <patricecurry@c...> wrote: > Hi Mu, > > I have this in my chart having Mars, Venus, and Saturn conjoined in my 2H, and in Virgo, I think you've seen my chart before. > > Only writing briefly to say that although when younger I did have very bad experiences, horrid first marriage, and a couple of other bad relationships, I think it's important for women who have this in their charts to know this is not something that means their relationships will always and forever be horrid. I have been with my 2nd husband for nearly 20 years and in a very loving and wonderful relationship, supportive, etc.. > > It's true that this relationship began at age 33 when I met him, which I'm told by some is the best age for a woman with respect to kuja dosha, which I do have and it's canceled, and my husband also has it, and for him canceled as well, so we're equal with respect to our own kuja doshas severity and cancellations. He was 29, the age I'm told is best for men with respect to kuja dosha... I've seen a few opinions on the ages but this is one of the stated opinions for age, and certainly was true in my personal experience. > > Andrew Lynn also talks about this along with Mars mutual aspect with Jupiter, which I do have as well on these planets, Jupiter in 8H Pisces, and his point is that women with this can make hasty, unprepared and poor choices with respect to men and I did do that as well, marrying my first husband after only knowing him for 3 months. > > But again, I want to make the clear point that this doesn't necessarily mean women with these planets won't ever have a good relationship or will only be either victims or incredibly controlling etc.. > > Kindest regards, > Patrice > > Mars-Saturn Aspects, and Women > > 11:32 AM 1/3/2005 Mon > > Hi All, > > I was sitting with Zam, shooting the breeze and looking over some > charts in his > > database, and we noticed quite a few charts that belonged to ladies > who had Mars > > and Saturn in hard aspect (conjunction, square, opposition, and > Quindecile). In > > EVERY case he had - quite a few - these women had protracted " men > problems " . He > > had quite a story to tell about each, and, to date, none of them has > had a > > satisfying relationship. > > Over the years, I have found that one of the old holdovers from > Classical Western > > Astrology tends to hold true - that whenever in the chart of a woman > you see Mars > > and Saturn in hard aspect, you can reasonably expect her to have > relationship > > difficulty. This was because Mars represents men, and Saturn > represents obstacles, > > delays and overall difficulty. > > I have seen this principle come through again and again and again > over the years; > > and, to be sure, other factors have to be taken into account - > parental axis rulers, > > planets in opposition in the parental houses, general 7th house > tensions, etc. But I > > HAVE seen this principle to work constantly, rarely without fail. > > In fact, I have found this " rule " to work EVEN WHEN THE 7TH HOUSE IS > COOL! Of > > course, if either Mars or Saturn rules or is in the 7th, the chances > of relationship > > problems are magnified. > > One famous lady's chart I can think of off the top of my head is > Julia Roberts. She > > has Cancer Asc in her Western chart, and therefore, Saturn has to > rule the 7th. > > Mars squares Saturn, with Mars ruling the 10th (the two planets > ruling angular > > houses getting even more strength). We all know her relationship > history with > > respect to Lyle Lovett, Kiefer Sutherland, etc. > > If Saturn is Rx - a major horoscopic condition and consideration for > most any chart > > to be sure - then we can expect, almost without exception, that the > major > > relationship difficulties are as a direct result of the father figure > being problematic in > > some way, ranging from just being out of the picture, to being > passive, to being > > brutally dictatorial, and so on. > > Mars being Rx, and also in aspect to Saturn in a woman's chart, from > what I have > > seen, seems to correlate to that woman being extremely passive, to > the point of the > > submissive role in S & M scenarios. Asserting one's Self is very > difficult to do, and if > > left to its own devices can indicate potential for all manner for > abuse, physical, > > emotional, verbal or otherwise. > > Of course, the Mars-Saturn aspect in a woman's chart can work in the > opposite > > direction, that is to say, that the woman can be the " dominant " > one...in fact, in one > > case that Zam talked about, a woman with the Moon and Asc in Cap, > Saturn (the > > Asc ruler, keep in mind) is in the 2nd/Pisces and squares Mars in the > 5th/Gemini, > > ruling the 3rd (mindset). As the 2nd represents self-esteem and the > 5th is that of > > sexual needs, expression and resources, we can reliably assume that > this woman > > would have pronounced trouble in these areas. According to what Zam > has shared > > with me, this woman has yet to have a satisfying relationship with > anyone, and, > > tends to be very, very controlling and domineering...clearly a > defense against > > emotional and relational insecurity. > > Sexually, so often, we see Mars-Saturn combinations playing > themselves out in the > > Sado-Masochistic area; the Marquis de Sade himself had, if I recall > alright, a hard > > Mars-Saturn aspect. If either of these planets involve themselves > with the Sexual > > Profile in a woman's chart (the 5th and 8th Houses, and/or Venus or > Pluto) we can > > expect there to be some sort of " pain/pleasure-push/pull " dynamic at > work sexually. > > Does anyone out there know of any ladies with such aspects in their > charts? Would > > you mind sharing those cases with us? > > Salaam, > Mu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Dear Mu and all, From my own experience, I can say that a Mars-Saturn connection (conjuntion or other) does lead to challenges...I have Saturn in 7th (Aries), Mars in 2nd (Scorpio)...my Saturn is just a few minutes behind my Sun in the 7th house of relationships...In most of my relationships with men, I've had the feeling of having the " rug pulled out from under me " ....a Vedic astrologer once told me that this is my Saturn working (also lord of my 5th house). Anyhow, I can agree with Patrice and Debra in that my relationships with men have been challenging. I'm 35, so I have not had the experience of being with anyone as long as Patrice and Debra have, but have had two longer term relationships of 4 and 3 years.... I think I've sent my chart to you earlier this year and you did make the comment that my relationships must have been " interesting " in the very least. That they have! ;0) I'll send you my birth information if it can be of use in your research. Just let me know. Thanks for your insightful articles!! Francoise , " Debra " <dqm51> wrote: > > Dear Mu, > > I have to agree with Patrice. I have in Rasi: Saturn, Neptune in > lst hse, Virgo; opposite Jupiter in 7th hse, Pisces; Mars, Uranus in > 10th hse, Gemini, squaring both lst hse Saturn and 7th hse Jupiter > > Difficult, YES. Impossible, NO. Challenging is more the term. > > When I was younger, I did have rocky relationships of personal > insecurities with a healthy dose of temper and arrogance. Also, a > deep love I had took three years of knowing and 11 months of > marriage to get him out of my system. > > I have been married now for 30yrs to my husband - that I feel really > has been my only one. The years come and go. Some are better than > others. However, that is with any relationship. My husband has Sun > with Rahu in Taurus, 11th hse - opposite Moon, Ketu in Scorpio, 5th > house. His Mars in 10th hse Aries square Saturn in Cancer, lst hse. > > I believe we are soul mates. We are glued to the hip for better or > worse. The years have proven to be some kind of karma we needed to > work out together AND, most importantly, even with all the > frustrations and life's realities often getting in the way; we have > learned and are better people because of our connection. As a > couple, we have proven to be a powerhouse to others. Privately, we > have deep respect for each other and I think that is what more than > any other reason has kept us together. Even, above that > interdependence component and family commitment. > > We have had to really work on our relationship, learn to give and > forgive, accept even when we don't agree and not roll our eyes too > much or have temper tantrums when our thinking processes are greatly > different. No matter how much we have wanted to throw each other > out. Or, more accurately, leave. > > I think too, it's a process of maturity to work through a lot of > individual insecurities, personal illusions and self-knowledge. (Not > necessarily a doomsday outlook of incompatibility) As we get older > we get better individually and for me - my primary job of raising > children and running a household is winding down to where I can > take the time and effort to better care for my self individually > and therefore hopefully be a better companion to my husband. > > Finally, I believe that an individual's astrological chart and > therefore, their relationships with other's and their astrological > charts is a very complex matrix and not easily divided into small > increments of absolutes. > > Tendencies maybe, predisposition sometimes. Environment and learned > behavior - yes - huge. > > But what is learned can be altered by new learning and environment. > > Debra! > > > , " Patrice Curry " > <patricecurry@c...> wrote: > > Hi Mu, > > > > I have this in my chart having Mars, Venus, and Saturn conjoined > in my 2H, and in Virgo, I think you've seen my chart before. > > > > Only writing briefly to say that although when younger I did have > very bad experiences, horrid first marriage, and a couple of other > bad relationships, I think it's important for women who have this in > their charts to know this is not something that means their > relationships will always and forever be horrid. I have been with my > 2nd husband for nearly 20 years and in a very loving and wonderful > relationship, supportive, etc.. > > > > It's true that this relationship began at age 33 when I met him, > which I'm told by some is the best age for a woman with respect to > kuja dosha, which I do have and it's canceled, and my husband also > has it, and for him canceled as well, so we're equal with respect to > our own kuja doshas severity and cancellations. He was 29, the age > I'm told is best for men with respect to kuja dosha... I've seen a > few opinions on the ages but this is one of the stated opinions for > age, and certainly was true in my personal experience. > > > > Andrew Lynn also talks about this along with Mars mutual aspect > with Jupiter, which I do have as well on these planets, Jupiter in > 8H Pisces, and his point is that women with this can make hasty, > unprepared and poor choices with respect to men and I did do that as > well, marrying my first husband after only knowing him for 3 months. > > > > But again, I want to make the clear point that this doesn't > necessarily mean women with these planets won't ever have a good > relationship or will only be either victims or incredibly > controlling etc.. > > > > Kindest regards, > > Patrice > > > > Mars-Saturn Aspects, and Women > > > > 11:32 AM 1/3/2005 Mon > > > > Hi All, > > > > I was sitting with Zam, shooting the breeze and looking over some > > charts in his > > > > database, and we noticed quite a few charts that belonged to > ladies > > who had Mars > > > > and Saturn in hard aspect (conjunction, square, opposition, and > > Quindecile). In > > > > EVERY case he had - quite a few - these women had protracted " men > > problems " . He > > > > had quite a story to tell about each, and, to date, none of them > has > > had a > > > > satisfying relationship. > > > > Over the years, I have found that one of the old holdovers from > > Classical Western > > > > Astrology tends to hold true - that whenever in the chart of a > woman > > you see Mars > > > > and Saturn in hard aspect, you can reasonably expect her to have > > relationship > > > > difficulty. This was because Mars represents men, and Saturn > > represents obstacles, > > > > delays and overall difficulty. > > > > I have seen this principle come through again and again and again > > over the years; > > > > and, to be sure, other factors have to be taken into account - > > parental axis rulers, > > > > planets in opposition in the parental houses, general 7th house > > tensions, etc. But I > > > > HAVE seen this principle to work constantly, rarely without fail. > > > > In fact, I have found this " rule " to work EVEN WHEN THE 7TH HOUSE > IS > > COOL! Of > > > > course, if either Mars or Saturn rules or is in the 7th, the > chances > > of relationship > > > > problems are magnified. > > > > One famous lady's chart I can think of off the top of my head is > > Julia Roberts. She > > > > has Cancer Asc in her Western chart, and therefore, Saturn has to > > rule the 7th. > > > > Mars squares Saturn, with Mars ruling the 10th (the two planets > > ruling angular > > > > houses getting even more strength). We all know her relationship > > history with > > > > respect to Lyle Lovett, Kiefer Sutherland, etc. > > > > If Saturn is Rx - a major horoscopic condition and consideration > for > > most any chart > > > > to be sure - then we can expect, almost without exception, that > the > > major > > > > relationship difficulties are as a direct result of the father > figure > > being problematic in > > > > some way, ranging from just being out of the picture, to being > > passive, to being > > > > brutally dictatorial, and so on. > > > > Mars being Rx, and also in aspect to Saturn in a woman's chart, > from > > what I have > > > > seen, seems to correlate to that woman being extremely passive, to > > the point of the > > > > submissive role in S & M scenarios. Asserting one's Self is very > > difficult to do, and if > > > > left to its own devices can indicate potential for all manner for > > abuse, physical, > > > > emotional, verbal or otherwise. > > > > Of course, the Mars-Saturn aspect in a woman's chart can work in > the > > opposite > > > > direction, that is to say, that the woman can be the " dominant " > > one...in fact, in one > > > > case that Zam talked about, a woman with the Moon and Asc in Cap, > > Saturn (the > > > > Asc ruler, keep in mind) is in the 2nd/Pisces and squares Mars in > the > > 5th/Gemini, > > > > ruling the 3rd (mindset). As the 2nd represents self-esteem and > the > > 5th is that of > > > > sexual needs, expression and resources, we can reliably assume > that > > this woman > > > > would have pronounced trouble in these areas. According to what > Zam > > has shared > > > > with me, this woman has yet to have a satisfying relationship with > > anyone, and, > > > > tends to be very, very controlling and domineering...clearly a > > defense against > > > > emotional and relational insecurity. > > > > Sexually, so often, we see Mars-Saturn combinations playing > > themselves out in the > > > > Sado-Masochistic area; the Marquis de Sade himself had, if I > recall > > alright, a hard > > > > Mars-Saturn aspect. If either of these planets involve themselves > > with the Sexual > > > > Profile in a woman's chart (the 5th and 8th Houses, and/or Venus > or > > Pluto) we can > > > > expect there to be some sort of " pain/pleasure-push/pull " dynamic > at > > work sexually. > > > > Does anyone out there know of any ladies with such aspects in > their > > charts? Would > > > > you mind sharing those cases with us? > > > > Salaam, > > Mu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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