Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 At 06:54 AM 6/22/04 -0700, Bettina wrote: > >I have Uranus (and Moon) in 12th. I wonder if I'm like the guy in the >article. Many times I've had people react to me as though they thought I >was " weird " and I don't know why. I don't feel as though I am, and this is >how the 12th functions ... we're not aware of things about ourselves that >are perfectly obvious to others. That's why it's considered to be the house >of self destruction or self deception ... we just don't see what's going on >there till it's too late. Bettina, I've noted that Moon in the 12th is a natural placement for the poet. The Moon responds ot so many little nuances of life, and can't help but flow with circumstances and time. Try to put the Moon in 12th on a schedeule ruled by the clock or into a structured religion. It won't work. I don't know about the lack of awareness in the 12th. I've always been very aware of my Mercury. I'd feel totally lost without Mercury activities and the Mercury way of being. And certainly President Clinton was very aware of being a leader. From a very young age, he was very brash in his desire to stand out and lead. He had high political ambitions. No, I don't agree that one is always unaware of the strength of planets in the 12th. Maybe it depends on the dispositor or some other factor?? Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Perhaps it's just that I'm only aware of being myself and can't imagine what it's like to be other than that. So ... in a sense the 12th is our " blind spot " , but where we express ourselves authentically. It's not what we strive to be, but just what we are. Then there's the matter of " self undoing " . Clinton was a leader, but definitely disgraced himself with his personal behavior. Bush has a lot of people angry also, though for different reasons (though he does have a history of drug and alcohol abuse). There's another person with 12th Sun who comes to mind ... an American leader of a spiritual community who was widely respected and revered by his followers, who shared some of Clinton's compulsions and predilictions, thereby bringing ruin to himself as a leader as well as to his community. Perhaps you are aware of being Mercurial because, in a way, Mercury is the planet of awareness. But perhaps Merc (or any planet in 12th) could sometimes express itself in a way of which the native (what a quaint expression!) is unaware. I know a man with Mars and Saturn in 12th, not closely conjunct, but in the same sign (Gemini). He thinks of himself as NEVER sounding cross or irritable, but this is not the case. He is simply incapable of identifying his crankiness when it comes out. .... Bettina Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:47 AM RE: 12th House Awareness At 06:54 AM 6/22/04 -0700, Bettina wrote: > >I have Uranus (and Moon) in 12th. I wonder if I'm like the guy in the >article. Many times I've had people react to me as though they thought I >was " weird " and I don't know why. I don't feel as though I am, and this is >how the 12th functions ... we're not aware of things about ourselves that >are perfectly obvious to others. That's why it's considered to be the house >of self destruction or self deception ... we just don't see what's going on >there till it's too late. Bettina, I've noted that Moon in the 12th is a natural placement for the poet. The Moon responds ot so many little nuances of life, and can't help but flow with circumstances and time. Try to put the Moon in 12th on a schedeule ruled by the clock or into a structured religion. It won't work. I don't know about the lack of awareness in the 12th. I've always been very aware of my Mercury. I'd feel totally lost without Mercury activities and the Mercury way of being. And certainly President Clinton was very aware of being a leader. From a very young age, he was very brash in his desire to stand out and lead. He had high political ambitions. No, I don't agree that one is always unaware of the strength of planets in the 12th. Maybe it depends on the dispositor or some other factor?? Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 At 10:43 AM 6/22/04 -0700, Bettina wrote: >...Then there's the matter of " self undoing " . Clinton was a leader, but >definitely disgraced himself with his personal behavior. Bush has a lot of >people angry also, though for different reasons (though he does have a >history of drug and alcohol abuse)... Bettina, Might be then that planets in the 12th must express themselves, but since they're in the 12th they are also karmic, and what we could call 'bad' karma can be set off by transits or progresions. I'm fairly sure that we don't have much, if any free will when it comes to 12th house planets. They push us rather than us pushing them. >...I know a man with Mars and Saturn in 12th, not closely conjunct, but in the >same sign (Gemini). He thinks of himself as NEVER sounding cross or >irritable, but this is not the case. He is simply incapable of identifying >his crankiness when it comes out. Interesting! Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Therese ... What would you say is the difference between a 12th house planet (near or below the cusp of 12th) and a planet very near the asc, say within 5 degs above or below? .... Bettina Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Tuesday, June 22, 2004 2:47 PM RE: 12th House Awareness At 10:43 AM 6/22/04 -0700, Bettina wrote: >...Then there's the matter of " self undoing " . Clinton was a leader, but >definitely disgraced himself with his personal behavior. Bush has a lot of >people angry also, though for different reasons (though he does have a >history of drug and alcohol abuse)... Bettina, Might be then that planets in the 12th must express themselves, but since they're in the 12th they are also karmic, and what we could call 'bad' karma can be set off by transits or progresions. I'm fairly sure that we don't have much, if any free will when it comes to 12th house planets. They push us rather than us pushing them. >...I know a man with Mars and Saturn in 12th, not closely conjunct, but in the >same sign (Gemini). He thinks of himself as NEVER sounding cross or >irritable, but this is not the case. He is simply incapable of identifying >his crankiness when it comes out. Interesting! Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Therese, would you say there would be a big difference between a 12 hs planet that fell in the 12th sign but between the 12th cusp and asc, and one that was in the 12th sign but fell between the 12th and 11th cusps? .... Bettina Therese Hamilton [eastwest] Tuesday, June 22, 2004 2:47 PM RE: 12th House Awareness At 10:43 AM 6/22/04 -0700, Bettina wrote: >...Then there's the matter of " self undoing " . Clinton was a leader, but >definitely disgraced himself with his personal behavior. Bush has a lot of >people angry also, though for different reasons (though he does have a >history of drug and alcohol abuse)... Bettina, Might be then that planets in the 12th must express themselves, but since they're in the 12th they are also karmic, and what we could call 'bad' karma can be set off by transits or progresions. I'm fairly sure that we don't have much, if any free will when it comes to 12th house planets. They push us rather than us pushing them. >...I know a man with Mars and Saturn in 12th, not closely conjunct, but in the >same sign (Gemini). He thinks of himself as NEVER sounding cross or >irritable, but this is not the case. He is simply incapable of identifying >his crankiness when it comes out. Interesting! Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 At 03:29 PM 6/22/04 -0700, Bettina wrote: >Therese, would you say there would be a big difference between a 12 hs >planet that fell in the 12th sign but between the 12th cusp and asc, and one >that was in the 12th sign but fell between the 12th and 11th cusps? I think (probably) that any planet within orb of a very wide (say 10 degrees...) semi-sextile to the ascendant from 12th is the 'real' 12th house planet. I don't think the sign matters. It's the position above the horizon that's important. Then when a planet gets within about 10 degrees of the ascendant, it will behave like a first house planet. Again, I don't think the sign matters. But when considering yogas, it's the sign that counts. Say the lord of 1st is conjunct the lord of 5th by sign. The house position wouldn't matter. It's the house lord combination that matters. I mean--the yoga exists. But if the combination is in the first house, it will have a different result than if it's in the 12th house. It would be much stronger for good fortune in the first, using the house definition of equal cusps as the center of houses. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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