2-Bettina, & all: MK 4/20.. ..re... How Rahu/ketu are benefic ormalefic for a horoscope?

[Guest guest]

Dear Bettina:

 

See below:

 

 

 

 

" Bettina " <chiria

 

Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:27:07 -0700

 

RE: 2-Bettina, & all: 4/19.. ..re... How Rahu/ketu are benefic ormalefic for ahoroscope?

 

 

 

Thanks Mark! Seems to me the most important thing is awareness, or consciousness. When we're aware of how we're expressing our planetary energies we can not allow ourselves to be controlled by them, and this probably goes double for the nodes, wouldn't you think?

 

I've learned over the years, some very powerful, 'way's in which to literally begin the process of changeing, improveing and even transforming our malefic, Planetary thought patterns....

 

We created these, awhile back, so we're meant to do this...

 

Only Jyotish/Astrology has a great power to generate these improvements,...way faster,...then

just going through our karmas....

 

Cuz even that eventually will change...

 

for example, we have a mars accident once, twice, ...up to the 10th time, and eventually we get it, we're going too fast!

 

But, looking at ourselves through our charts allows us to 'grok' it faster!

 

 

Rahu might really want a lot of stuff (or power, or attention) it doesn't need, but if the person detaches herself from that want and asks herself if she really needs it, and the answer comes up " No " , then she's not letting herself be controlled by R. Of course, it might take a certain kind of chart to be able to do that (perhaps a strong Saturn and Mercury?)

 

I think every manner of a chart, has the potential...of every transformation...

 

We don't realize it often, but the very things we're frustrated with, are the very things we've come to change.....

 

There is this concept in Vedic Knowledge called, 'pragya parad'.

 

Don't know if you've heard of it...

 

But, it means, roughly, 'mistake of intellect'.

 

Though it doesn't mean, individual intellect, but mistake of one's Cosmic intellect.

 

It's the idea that all sufferings, all problems, all mistakes in life, stem from these kinds of 'mistakes of intellect', or break downs in our Cosmic, full potential...

 

When I contemplated this, after being in India, in 1988, it occured to me over the course of the next few years,....that the 'malefics' in our charts....

 

qualify as good candidates for our pragya parads, or mistaken patterns....

 

that we're presently, identified with, but which are not healthy...

 

One of the Vedic scholoars, there, said: " these pragya parads are important because not only are they the source of our sufferings, but they're very insidious. They exist such that, sometimes, we spontaneously do that which isn't healthy for us... "

 

So, a lot of the Vedic disciplines, including Ayurved and even yoga, goes to transforming this twisted molecule, wrong patterns,....

 

to change...

 

My whole research in Jyotish/Astrology....has been are our malefics our mistaken notions, or patterns of thought and action,...that are spontaneously leading us astray?

 

And can these be changed?

 

 

Now, after all these years, I'm very happy to report...they can!

 

 

 

 

 

I could never get why R is compared to Saturn and K to Mars, at least as far as the personality is concerned. Saturn is cautious, sensible, frugal and has to do with poverty and diminishment. R seems the opposite of these.

 

I think Rahu & Saturn are only roughly similar, especially in regards to both representing imbalances of sorts..

 

But, where malefic Saturn represents being out of balance due to overexertion, straining, working too hard, for example....

 

Malefic Rahu represents being out of balance, due to a kind of straining of the desire mechanism that wants things....

 

and gets soooo preoccupied with the process of acquiring that it doesn't realize...that it's gotten into all kinds of unhealthy patterns like compulsions, and even addicitons...

 

In fact, K seems more like Saturn to me, as it has to do with lack, invisibility, renunciation. In Vedic astr. Saturn and Ketu both have to do with renunciation. Then, Mars is bombastic, aggressive, straightforward ... not Ketu traits. Do you think that the reverse could be true? That is, R more like Mars and K more like Saturn?

 

I do find that Rahu....improves, in much the same way that Saturn improves by encouraging the rest, and relaxation...part of us....

 

Ketu, may have a slight more pitta quality then Rahu.... but it's easier, sometimes, to look at the particulars in people's charts...and see what the symbolism is there....

 

And then, do a kind of Jyotish healing!

 

take care

 

 

Mark

 

 

ps...have been enjoying your interest and participations very much.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps it would be different in transits from the nodes than in the natal chart.

 

 

.... Bettina

 

 

 

 

Mark Kincaid [m.kincaid]

Monday, April 19, 2004 9:38 AM

 

2-Bettina, & all: 4/19.. ..re... How Rahu/ketu are benefic ormalefic for ahoroscope?

 

Dear Bettina:

 

Check out the letter/ I sent in today, regarding Rahu.

 

It might help you understand more about Rahu, especially.

 

And your point is well asked.

 

See below:

 

 

 

" Bettina " <chiria

 

Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:54:00 -0700

 

RE: 4/15..> MK ..re... How Rahu/ketu are benefic or malefic for ahoroscope?

 

 

Hey, Mark ...

 

 

The nodes are what I am most fascinated by. There was a small discussion of them on the Sidereal board. I never have a complete grasp of them, but Rahu is clearer to me than Ketu. I would love if people here would contribute their knowledge ... from observation or from what they've read or been taught ... of them. Rahu does seem very grabby ... almost like a Jupiter afflicted by Mars. Often, as you say, the greed or overextension of R leads to some sort of downfall or loss. But does it have to?

 

No, they don't have to be malefic.

 

Rahu and Ketu like any planetary situation represent a part of nature, that we're either in-tune with or not....

 

 

 

They seem to only express strongly when cnj another planet (esp Sun or Moon).

 

K can diminish the one who has it strong so that they can be almost invisible.

 

Are they impulsive or unconscious? Are people with them strong on auto-pilot where fulfilling the needs of their nodes? How does one learn to handle them?

 

There's a kernal of truth in the expression....

 

'Rahu acts like Saturn and Ketu like Mars...'

 

I've found, therefore, that the Jyotish/Astrological remedies that are good for Saturn are also very helpful for Rahu!

 

But, Rahu's symbolism is slightly different then, Saturn...

 

and tends to reflect compulsions, patterns, addicitons, that are especially related to the desire mechanisms....that we get attached to.....

 

 

 

One thought I wanted to add to what you wrote about each planet having a benefic and a malefic side: Jupiter can be snobbish and elitist when expressing negatively, esp when combined with the Sun.

 

I don't think it's Jupiter that becomes snoobish and elitist....

 

these 2 terms are more symbolic of the Sun....

 

Jupiter's significations are either pure...or impure....

 

either sattvic or...not....

 

Jupiter is either....open to wisdom, and teaching and learning....

 

or.... people don't have faith, or hope, or openess...to teachers, mentors, gurus, or God....

 

 

 

This board is a wonderful chance for people to share what they know, esp based on their own empirical observations. Everybody, look at the charts of your children, friends, parents, siblings, selves, and we can all share and learn from each other. The thing that always bugs me about Indian astr. is that everything is either completely GOOD or completely BAD, and life isn't like that.

 

Very good point, and this shows....that this aspect of Indian astrology has to change....

 

Life is what is true.....

 

And as Philosophers, and thinkers of all kinds, 300 years ago learned to start looking to 'Nature' as the source of truth....

 

so, should we, in the field of Astrology....look to real life, as the frame of reference...which will help us find the truths of Astrology

 

 

take care

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... Bettina

 

[bettinaw]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mark Kincaid [m.kincaid]

Thursday, April 15, 2004 7:09 AM

 

4/15..> MK ..re... How Rahu/ketu are benefic or malefic for ahoroscope?

 

Dear Friends:

 

Here's a fascinating discussion about Rahu & Ketu, and even how one can discover how, any planet is being Malefic or Benefic for any horoscope.

 

Mark K.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Fiends:

 

I have some thoughts to share regarding Rahu/Ketu.

 

The eclipses, in November were a powerful learning, time, for me, to really gain more in-depth wisdom as to the nodes.

 

I love watching, or experiencing the Stars, because a kind of purity comes forth, in experiencing them, primordially....

 

I do get the general, symbolism of the nodes being 'enemies of the Sun and Moon', as they're like that for most people's chart.

 

But, because I've also come to understand that all 'malefic' situations in our chart, are really just blessings in disguise, then there must be some positivity, underlieing even Rahu & ketu.

 

You can see that, sometimes, more vividly in people's charts who seem to have positive or Benefic Rahus/or Ketu. They get what they want, but don't go through that typically, Rahuish, effect of then loosing it all in the end.

 

Now, I understand that Rahu primarily represents the 'desire' side of life. Therefore, for those who have gotten into the Malefic side of Rahu, they have this dominating, intensity of desires, compulsions, chronic patterns, even addictions.

 

So, whenever we've evolved to a point where desires, themselves, have taken over, they do begin a kind of life of their own, and as such lead to all manners of imbalances, abuses, and degradations.

 

This is, however, a great spiritual dilema, because the purpose of desires is pure. Desires lead us to more and more. Desires, in fact, lead us to fulfillment, even to our Spirituality.

 

But, where desires become dominant, overshadowing even, the very purpose of 'desires', then they become Rahuish!

 

So, what we need to do, is re-connect our 'desires' with our inner, silent, Consciousness side.

 

Desires, serve us, and we don't serve them!

 

PS.... One of the best ways I've also found to determine whether any Planet is acting malefically or benefically, for that horoscope, is...

 

to examine whether that Planet is causing... so-called negative, or un-happy, results and consequences or whether the more positive significations are the result.

 

For example, the Sun has two sides to it.

 

When being benefic, wonderful Self-confidence, and positive, self-esteem, and inner power result. If acting malefically, then arrogance, egoism, superiority, or lack of self-confidence, and esteem result.

 

For the Moon, inner happiness, joy, compassion, sensitivity, receptivity, wonderful, inner feelings .... are the result of a Benefic Moon.

 

However, if acting Malefically, the Moon can reflect, qualities, of shyness, sadness, worry, anxieties, fear, and un-happiness.

 

For Jupiter, it's benefic side is whenever a person is living natural faith, rich spiritual content, and belief or actual experiences of the inherent, spiritual or divine nature of life. Also, practical expressions of a 'good' Jupiter, are good luck, grace, openess to Mentors, teachers, and even, enjoying the whole process of learning and teaching, and education.

 

If Jupiter is being temporarily 'malefic' it's repercussions will be lack of faith, lack of natural, nature support. Questioning, skeptical qualities, no easy faith or belief in life's divine nature or origins. Jupiter in Capricorn, which is supposed to be the worse place of Jupiter, is symbolic of where 'matter', or Capricorn, has come to dominate, 'spirit', or Jupiter.

 

All the planets can be analysed, like this...

 

which goes a lot farther at helping to understand the inherent Malefic or Benefic status of a Planet, then, just whether it's ....

 

o In a friendly Sign, or in it's Own Sign, Exalted, debilitated or enemy sign.

o Or, the natural ruler of a so-called good house, 1, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10 & 11 houses... vs.

o The more malefic or dustana houses, 3rd, 6th, 8th, & 12th ....

 

 

Sorry, if this was too long.

 

I got inspired by this question of the inherent benefic/maleficness....

And beside, the Sun is Exalted right now, so great time, to focus on these great truths....

 

Jai Guru!

 

 

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS...For those of you who haven't heard, I also write a Jyotish newsletter. It includes a daily, Transits newsletter as well as other aspects of Jyotish as well. If you, or anyone else in this group is interested, in subscribing, feel free to contact me personally at: m.kincaid

 

I, also have a new /message board, called which is a nice blending of both Western & Eastern Astrologys. You can check that out at:

/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> " Kundalika Shastri " <kundalika

> JyotishVidya

> Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:13:07 -0700

> JyotishVidya

> RE: [JyotishVidya] How to decide weather rahu/ketu benefic/malefic

> for a horoscope?

>

> Hi ssz_dreams

>

> What's your name if you don't mind my asking?

>

> Since Rahu and Ketu are two points of intersection, I am not sure if they

> can be attributed lordship or karakatwa (executive) of a house. I do not

> doubt their power in giving results.

>

> Rahu and Ketu are supposed to give good results in the Upachayas, 3-6-11. Of

> these, I have personally observed Rahu giving great results in 3rd and 11th.

> I am not sure of a node in 6th, because it means another node is in the

> 12th, and the ill effects of the 12th are very visible.

>

> I have also seen Rahu natally placed in 10th giving good results, in cases

> where the 10th lord was well placed or at the very least, unafflicted.

>

> Yes Rahu is supposed to be the head of a snake, but to tell you the truth I

> have only found few horoscopes with Rahu in 2nd giving good results. I am

> not convinced that it should lord the 2nd in any way, but you are entitled

> to your opinion, and me to my reservations:-)

>

> With due respect to your observations about Jupiter and Saturn in 2nd, let

> me just say that a lot depends on the lordship of Saturn or Jupiter, as well

> as the status of the concerned 2nd lords. While I have observed the " Sthana

> Haani Karoti Jeeva Sthana Vriddhi Karoti Shani " principle working for many

> charts, again, like everything in Jyotish, its not a mandatory thing.

>

>

> Regards,

> K.

>

> What goes around comes around ---- Be Good.

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>>

>>

>> The more we look at Rahu's role in our lives, the more convinced that

>> there is more to Rahu than what is attributed to him. Rahu as Demon

>> with only head,and all evils ascribed to Rahu seem to be born more

>> out of Puranic depiction of Rahu as cheating Rakshasa .

>>

>> So when it came to allotting Karakatwa , venus, Jupiter, Mercury and

>> Sun took the best of the portfolios. Rules of astrology were formed

>> to fit their brightness . Sometimes square pegs were put in round

>> holes. Brihaspati, the Deva Guru , supposed to be of most benign

>> nature, intelligent and karaka of wealth was given many portfolios.

>> Out of that, portfolio of 2nd house was also given to him. But when

>> they found that Guru, even though was made karaka for house of

>> wealth, whenever he was in 2nd bhava, the man turned into a pauper

>> lost wealth or suffered financially. How can a minister of finance

>> occupying his own office

>> in the place ruled by him destroy the finances of the country ?

>>

>> They also found that BAD Sani , increased wealth when in 2nd bhava.

>>

>> It is like a Menial low caste servant occupying the seat of finance

>> in the ministry increase the wealth of the country. !!! How

>> paradoxical !!!!

>>

>> So the old Astrologers belonging to Brihaspati's kula (Brahmins) made

>> a rule to explain.

>>

>> BHAVA NASH KARO JEEVA, BHAVA VRIDDHHI KARAU SHANI:

>>

>> Meaning, Jupiter destroys the bhava he occupies and saturn increases

>> the bhava he occupies. I remember the story of olden times when a

>> child wants Moon, the mother brings a plate of water and asks the

>> child to take the reflection of Moon. " And since the child believes

>> in Mother, he accepts that moon and stops crying. People accepted all

>> the so called Exceptions to the rule without questioning. In respect

>> to Brihaspati, I found that he is a misfit in most of the places he

>> sits. So I have read karakatva, nature, description etc of Rahu and

>> came to conclusion that 2nd house being the most important house in a

>> horoscope surpassing even the 9th , 10th , 5th etc should be lorded

>> over by Rahu.

>>

>> You may ask me " why Rahu? "

>> Because, Rahu, as I said before, rules over All impulses, organs of

>> impulses or Inputs like nose, skin, ears, mouth eyes etc. All these

>> are in Head. He rules over mouth, openings, chides (Holes or Indriya

>> Dwaras). Major chidras are in head and on face. Eyes, ears, mouth

>> nose. These four major Indriyas are Rahu's weapon. Remember he loves

>> number 4. With mouth, food or energy etc go in. Speech comes out.

>> Nose is for taking in air and exhaling. 2nd house rules over coming

>> and going. Rahu as lord of the DWARA or door, allows things to go in

>> or come out.

>>

>> All inputs given by these four perceiving organs(Indriyas) are passed

>> on to brain (Head). Hence Rahu must lord over 2nd house.

>>

>> 2nd house denotes, speech, wealth, supporting others including

>> family, truth and falsehood(Rahu).Tongue, eyes,Nose, throat,Diamond,

>> Gold, silver,Gems,perfumes,garments, copper, determination,trade,

>> softness of speech,effort in acquiring wealth and riches and the

>> means adopted also, miserliness,oratorical ability,modesty, firmness

>> of mind, rules of coming and going, power of living etc.

>> (Utarakalamrita)

>>

>> To acqire wealth, you need best usage of inputs of information, best

>> utilisation of resources, ability to speak, ability to plan, capacity

>> to manipulate, ability to fight and win over opponents and a strong

>> luck. Ability to change colours, deception capability etc. Since Rahu

>> fitted the bill because he can do all the above and much more.

>>

>> I gave my views any body can give views on rahu/ketu

>> how they can become benefic/malefic for a horoscope since they dont

>> have any lordship over houses?

>>

>

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