2-Flick......4/7....Western & Eastern...Astrologys

[Guest guest]

Dear Flick:

 

Don't get me wrong. I just meant to show how I experience my chart and

thought it might be helpful for you.

 

I'm hopeing in this ...to walk on a common ground to

understand the best of both systems...

 

I believe each system has some important things to teach us about Nature's

Astrology....and hope these cordial converstions will further that

development..

 

Yours truely,

 

 

Mark K

 

 

 

 

> Flick <rubysun

>

> Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:20:06 +0100

>

> Re: 2-Flick & Anne:......4/7....Re: Moon & Other

> Simultaneous Astrological Forces....!

>

> Mark, you've got the total wrong end of the stick about what I was saying. I

> was not referring to earning money...you're mixing this up with the Jyotish

> 11th house meaning. I was talking about the western 11th house meaning of

> being involved with groups and organisations, including spiritual ones. In

> fact I wasn't looking at your wealth or capacity to earn money at all. Gosh,

> you've devoted a whole message to putting me right about your money earning

> capacities, and I never mentioned them once or even looked at them.

>

> The sadness and depression you mention can be indicative of Neptune in the

> 12th...I believe it's Isabel Hickey who refers to this placement as being

> far from home on a foggy night, and deep loneliness. Of course it is also,

> as you say, a function of Moon/Saturn.

>

> A lot of the reactions you've given me are based on your taking the Vedic

> meanings for planetary positions. Western astrology treats these quite

> differently. I find that certain traits will come out through one set of

> characteristics with western astrology and another with Vedic astrology, but

> either system will describe the person. Western astrology is more

> psychologically based with more leeway to interpret things positively, Vedic

> astrology is more finely tuned and accurate when it comes to breaking down

> the mundane details of life. Both are deeply spiritual in different ways. I

> certainly have no stake in pushing western astrology over Vedic - at the

> moment I prefer the latter.

>

> On 7/4/04 3:21 pm, " Mark Kincaid " <m.kincaid wrote:

>

>> Dear Flick & Anne:

>>

>>

>> I think my 'devotion' comes from both my Moon in the 12th...but more it's

>> 7th House aspect from my Jupiter in Pisces in the 6th....

>>

>> flick, in my Jyotish chart, my Saturn's in the 12th...and not in my 11th,

>> according to the Western version. And I really think that fits me better.

>>

>> My problem is not income coming in, ie. the 11th house, I've got Sun,

>> Mercury, Venus & Ketu, in the 11th...all in Leo!

>>

>> so, making money has not been my problem,...but the problem (ie. saturn)

>> being in the 12th house, has been very indicative, of money going out!

>>

>> I've had a much harder time, either holding onto money, or not even careing

>> about savings....

>>

>> I remember my dad for years trying to encourage me to save...and I had such

>> a renunciation, kind of reaction, like God, would provide... which is much

>> more symbolic of Moon with Saturn and both in the 12th house, which is a

>> house of renunciation, anyway.

>>

>> Also, another thing in my life, that fits the Eastern version better is the

>> fact, that I've had such 'depression', and loneliness, and mental and

>> emotional anxieties,...

>>

>> These are all symbolic of a close proximity of Moon to Saturn, and being in

>> the 12th house too.

>>

>> Flick you also mention, earning through groups and organizations, and this

>> has not actually been true. Since I've been 20 years old, actually even

>> when I was a teenager, I had my own lawn cutting business.

>>

>> But, 90% of my working life, I've had businesses of my own. I've owned by

>> own Construction businesses, and even when I taught meditation, which should

>> have been an occassion of working with others, I often found myself, again,

>> alone, in centers, or cities, where I was the only one, again, teaching on

>> my own.

>>

>> This new venture of being involved in our ,...group and my

>> r's lists... it's a 'group'.... but it's a new thing for me, being

>> involved with lots of people, and I think this is a reflection of how much

>> I've grown over the years both with meditation and with Jyotish, that I can

>> now, be involved with lots of people, and still be true to my intense 'Leo'

>> nature, and independence...

>>

>> Another thing you mention flick is my western chart having Mars in Leo...

>>

>> I only wish that was true! In my Jyotish chart, my Mars is in Cancer, in my

>> 10th house, and I have had a timid, and weak kind of Marish side to me.

>>

>> One time, I returned home from trying to collect money from one of my

>> construction clients and I told my wife, 'oh, .... they made me deduct 200

>> or 300$, again....'

>>

>> She, turned to me and said, 'Mark your generosity is killing us'...

>>

>> And that was a mind turned for me. I always thought that by being more

>> harmonious, giving, (ie. cancerish) and not confrontational, it would be

>> better.

>>

>> And in one moment I realized, 'wow, I have a side to me, where I let people

>> take advantage of me!'....

>>

>> Now, that's a good description of Mars in Cancer and not Leo!

>>

>> Though I certainly have a lot of Leo, too, if you consider, Sun, Mercury,

>> Venus and Ketu....being in Leo in my Jyotish chart...hehhehe

>>

>> Anyway, it's quite fun....looking at both systems...

>>

>> I do think the Jyotish charts are more accurate, but I also believe that

>> there are aspects to Western Astrology which are more true then, Jyotish

>> understands...

>>

>> For example, Jyotish believes more in fate, which I think is a big mistake,

>> and Jyotish also believes that the Moon is more important, then even the

>> Sun.

>>

>> However, I believe the Western notion of the importance of the Sun is worth

>> noting and the Western view that we have free will, and are here to grow,

>> evolve and especially improve ourselves...

>>

>> unlike the eastern perspective of mostly accepting our chart, lot in life!

>>

>>

>>

>> Nice talking with you all!

>>

>>

>>

>> Sincerely,

>>

>>

>>

>> Mark K.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>> " hagazussah " <hagazussa

>>>

>>> Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:39:36 -0000

>>>

>>> 2-Flick...4/6....Re: Moon & Other Simultaneous

>>> Astrological Forces....!

>>>

>>> Hi Flick,

>>>

>>> Was this in western astrology or in Jyotish? The description of

>>> saturn in the 11th house struck me. I have in western astrology also

>>> saturn in 11 (but severely afflicted by venus and mars in taurus). I

>>> think it is the force of serendipity that leads me to learn a lot

>>> from Mark!

>>>

>>> Anne

>>>

>>>

>>> , Flick <rubysun@n...> wrote:

>>>> On 6/4/04 7:32 pm, " Mark Kincaid " <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> mine is sept. 4, 1951 11:17am Kansas City, MO, Libra

>>> Rising .....

>>>>> 22 degrees....

>>>>

>>>> Mark, I still don't have Parashara's Light. However, using western

>>> software,

>>>> you have a very close conjunction of Moon and Neptune in the 12th.

>>> Very

>>>> devotional and diffuse. No wonder you had to make friends with

>>> Saturn: there

>>>> he is in your 11th house, earthing you through your activity in

>>> groups and

>>>> organisations, thus allowing that very focused, fiery,

>>> enthusiastic Mars in

>>>> Leo to blaze a trail through your 9th house, bringing your very

>>>> individualistic spiritual philosophy out into the world.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark,

 

Well, no it wasn't helpful as you were putting me right on factors I hadn't

actually broached, so I was confused. Ah well, we can expect this sort of

crossed wires with Mercury retrograding :-) I think I know what the

misunderstanding was that caused you to send me a long email detailing your

relationship with money. I mentioned being earthed through Saturn and you

possibly thought the word was earned? Easy to do when reading a lot of

emails, I know. I meant grounded, as in Saturn being an anchor rather than a

block. My reference to groups and organisations was meant to cover any kind

of association with any group, including ecological and spiritual...I

believe you have associations with the TM movement?

 

Never mind. I'm not here to defend one system over another, or to pick up

info about western astrology (after 30 years of it, I think I can navigate

the learning process independently). I've joined three jyotish groups to

learn Vedic astrology as I've only been studying that for two or three years

and so far have only certification for 100 hours for ACVA. The little bits

of info I get from people like yourself who have practiced for some time are

invaluable - they are the details that flesh out the structure my course is

teaching me...so thank you for that.

 

Flick.

Author website:

http://www.witchcraft.org/elenhawke.htm

 

 

On 7/4/04 5:27 pm, " Mark Kincaid " <m.kincaid wrote:

 

> Dear Flick:

>

> Don't get me wrong. I just meant to show how I experience my chart and

> thought it might be helpful for you.

>

> I'm hopeing in this ...to walk on a common ground to

> understand the best of both systems...

>

> I believe each system has some important things to teach us about Nature's

> Astrology....and hope these cordial converstions will further that

> development..

>

> Yours truely,

>

>

> Mark K

>

>

>

>

>> Flick <rubysun

>>

>> Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:20:06 +0100

>>

>> Re: 2-Flick & Anne:......4/7....Re: Moon & Other

>> Simultaneous Astrological Forces....!

>>

>> Mark, you've got the total wrong end of the stick about what I was saying. I

>> was not referring to earning money...you're mixing this up with the Jyotish

>> 11th house meaning. I was talking about the western 11th house meaning of

>> being involved with groups and organisations, including spiritual ones. In

>> fact I wasn't looking at your wealth or capacity to earn money at all. Gosh,

>> you've devoted a whole message to putting me right about your money earning

>> capacities, and I never mentioned them once or even looked at them.

>>

>> The sadness and depression you mention can be indicative of Neptune in the

>> 12th...I believe it's Isabel Hickey who refers to this placement as being

>> far from home on a foggy night, and deep loneliness. Of course it is also,

>> as you say, a function of Moon/Saturn.

>>

>> A lot of the reactions you've given me are based on your taking the Vedic

>> meanings for planetary positions. Western astrology treats these quite

>> differently. I find that certain traits will come out through one set of

>> characteristics with western astrology and another with Vedic astrology, but

>> either system will describe the person. Western astrology is more

>> psychologically based with more leeway to interpret things positively, Vedic

>> astrology is more finely tuned and accurate when it comes to breaking down

>> the mundane details of life. Both are deeply spiritual in different ways. I

>> certainly have no stake in pushing western astrology over Vedic - at the

>> moment I prefer the latter.

>>

>> On 7/4/04 3:21 pm, " Mark Kincaid " <m.kincaid wrote:

>>

>>> Dear Flick & Anne:

>>>

>>>

>>> I think my 'devotion' comes from both my Moon in the 12th...but more it's

>>> 7th House aspect from my Jupiter in Pisces in the 6th....

>>>

>>> flick, in my Jyotish chart, my Saturn's in the 12th...and not in my 11th,

>>> according to the Western version. And I really think that fits me better.

>>>

>>> My problem is not income coming in, ie. the 11th house, I've got Sun,

>>> Mercury, Venus & Ketu, in the 11th...all in Leo!

>>>

>>> so, making money has not been my problem,...but the problem (ie. saturn)

>>> being in the 12th house, has been very indicative, of money going out!

>>>

>>> I've had a much harder time, either holding onto money, or not even careing

>>> about savings....

>>>

>>> I remember my dad for years trying to encourage me to save...and I had such

>>> a renunciation, kind of reaction, like God, would provide... which is much

>>> more symbolic of Moon with Saturn and both in the 12th house, which is a

>>> house of renunciation, anyway.

>>>

>>> Also, another thing in my life, that fits the Eastern version better is the

>>> fact, that I've had such 'depression', and loneliness, and mental and

>>> emotional anxieties,...

>>>

>>> These are all symbolic of a close proximity of Moon to Saturn, and being in

>>> the 12th house too.

>>>

>>> Flick you also mention, earning through groups and organizations, and this

>>> has not actually been true. Since I've been 20 years old, actually even

>>> when I was a teenager, I had my own lawn cutting business.

>>>

>>> But, 90% of my working life, I've had businesses of my own. I've owned by

>>> own Construction businesses, and even when I taught meditation, which should

>>> have been an occassion of working with others, I often found myself, again,

>>> alone, in centers, or cities, where I was the only one, again, teaching on

>>> my own.

>>>

>>> This new venture of being involved in our ,...group and my

>>> r's lists... it's a 'group'.... but it's a new thing for me, being

>>> involved with lots of people, and I think this is a reflection of how much

>>> I've grown over the years both with meditation and with Jyotish, that I can

>>> now, be involved with lots of people, and still be true to my intense 'Leo'

>>> nature, and independence...

>>>

>>> Another thing you mention flick is my western chart having Mars in Leo...

>>>

>>> I only wish that was true! In my Jyotish chart, my Mars is in Cancer, in my

>>> 10th house, and I have had a timid, and weak kind of Marish side to me.

>>>

>>> One time, I returned home from trying to collect money from one of my

>>> construction clients and I told my wife, 'oh, .... they made me deduct 200

>>> or 300$, again....'

>>>

>>> She, turned to me and said, 'Mark your generosity is killing us'...

>>>

>>> And that was a mind turned for me. I always thought that by being more

>>> harmonious, giving, (ie. cancerish) and not confrontational, it would be

>>> better.

>>>

>>> And in one moment I realized, 'wow, I have a side to me, where I let people

>>> take advantage of me!'....

>>>

>>> Now, that's a good description of Mars in Cancer and not Leo!

>>>

>>> Though I certainly have a lot of Leo, too, if you consider, Sun, Mercury,

>>> Venus and Ketu....being in Leo in my Jyotish chart...hehhehe

>>>

>>> Anyway, it's quite fun....looking at both systems...

>>>

>>> I do think the Jyotish charts are more accurate, but I also believe that

>>> there are aspects to Western Astrology which are more true then, Jyotish

>>> understands...

>>>

>>> For example, Jyotish believes more in fate, which I think is a big mistake,

>>> and Jyotish also believes that the Moon is more important, then even the

>>> Sun.

>>>

>>> However, I believe the Western notion of the importance of the Sun is worth

>>> noting and the Western view that we have free will, and are here to grow,

>>> evolve and especially improve ourselves...

>>>

>>> unlike the eastern perspective of mostly accepting our chart, lot in life!

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Nice talking with you all!

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Sincerely,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Mark K.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>> " hagazussah " <hagazussa

>>>>

>>>> Wed, 07 Apr 2004 07:39:36 -0000

>>>>

>>>> 2-Flick...4/6....Re: Moon & Other Simultaneous

>>>> Astrological Forces....!

>>>>

>>>> Hi Flick,

>>>>

>>>> Was this in western astrology or in Jyotish? The description of

>>>> saturn in the 11th house struck me. I have in western astrology also

>>>> saturn in 11 (but severely afflicted by venus and mars in taurus). I

>>>> think it is the force of serendipity that leads me to learn a lot

>>>> from Mark!

>>>>

>>>> Anne

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> , Flick <rubysun@n...> wrote:

>>>>> On 6/4/04 7:32 pm, " Mark Kincaid " <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> mine is sept. 4, 1951 11:17am Kansas City, MO, Libra

>>>> Rising .....

>>>>>> 22 degrees....

>>>>>

>>>>> Mark, I still don't have Parashara's Light. However, using western

>>>> software,

>>>>> you have a very close conjunction of Moon and Neptune in the 12th.

>>>> Very

>>>>> devotional and diffuse. No wonder you had to make friends with

>>>> Saturn: there

>>>>> he is in your 11th house, earthing you through your activity in

>>>> groups and

>>>>> organisations, thus allowing that very focused, fiery,

>>>> enthusiastic Mars in

>>>>> Leo to blaze a trail through your 9th house, bringing your very

>>>>> individualistic spiritual philosophy out into the world.