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2-Adnan, 3/28...Astrology & Vedic Knowledge..as Science?

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Dear Friends:

 

Here's an interesting response to a r's thoughts and questions regarding Astrology and Science.....

 

enjoy

 

 

Mark K.

 

 

Hi Prof.,

 

It's been some time I did not write to my Prof. :-)

 

Hope you are and have been doing 100% well,

 

I've been totally immersed in the ancient Shastras, e.g. Parashara and Jaimini.

 

And I noticed your post about Jyotish being a Science.

 

On this topic, I guess what those people who consider Jyotish is not a science, mean by science, is different than your use of the term.

 

Science by definition in the West, rules out the possibility of Divinity. But Jyotish is based on that, e.g. fate, predeterminism etc., so it is an expression of God, the will and creation/system of God.

 

My humble view is that, therefore, it is not possible to prove to these people that Jyotish is indeed a science. We can do statistical analysis, and present to them, but they are biased already. In western science there are several ways to reject truth, when the intention is to disregard the truth.

 

In the Holy Kor'an, interestingly it is said; " If they do not beleive in God, don't try to force them into beleiving, they won't " . So what for us is Science is for other people a matter of beleif and beyond Science according to them.

 

Take care, Adnan.

 

Jai Guru Dev.

 

P.S. Are you feeling any tiredness in the eyes these days? Sun square Saturn?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Adnan:

 

Very nice to hear from you.

 

What I believe is that God, him/herself... created a 'scientific' age so that we'd learn to think more objectively and not fight over our beliefs as was the situation pre-science, especially in the West.

 

Vedic Knowledge is different because it represents, as Maharishi is so fond of saying, the full knowledge of both the objective and subjective fields of life. Maharishi, himself says Ved is all, pure Science.

 

Science is valuable, for this 'objectivity' reason but it's also the way God or Nature has evolved the understanding of life these last 300 years.

 

And much has been advanced in the understanding of Nature through this system.

 

Unfortunately, not much progress has been made in the science of subjectivity or what we call Psychology. The problem is because 'Knowledge is different in different states of Consciousness'. There are many, many scientists who are beginning to realize that the subjective side to life is as important as the objective side.

 

And many of them are getting very excited because it's recently become possible...to produce Higher States of Consciousness and study those states, scientifically. This is one of the areas of study at MUM, and I know some of the researchers very well who are deeply emersed in trying to bring this wisdom to the World.

 

I also believe it is indeed possible to convince 'these' people that Vedic Knowledge is scientific. That's been one of the reasons why Maharishi has directed an entire generation of TM teachers and scholars to conduct real researches on Consciounsess. Today, over 500 world, class, scientific studies have been done on all aspects of TM and Vedic Science, including even, the sidhis.

 

Even Physicists are becoming very excited about Consciousness because they're heard from Dr. Hagelin that the Unified Field, which they know about through Physics, has been found to be a state of pure Consciousness.

 

The Truth is that the source of all objective and subjective realities, is the same source, pure Being, and only when we come to 'know That'...will we be true Knowers of Reality and true Scientists....hehehe

 

Oh, yes, I also wanted to comment on your thought below...: (see below)....

 

 

 

" Adnan Sabri Koru " <korua

Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:57:49 +0300

" Mark Kincaid " <m.kincaid

HI PROF

 

 

Hi Prof.,

 

It's been some time I did not write to my Prof. :-)

 

Hope you are and have been doing 100% well,

 

I've been totally immersed in the ancient Shastras, e.g. Parashara and Jaimini.

 

And I noticed your post about Jyotish being a Science.

 

On this topic, I guess what those people who consider Jyotish is not a science, mean by science, is different than your use of the term.

 

Science by definition in the West, rules out the possibility of Divinity.

 

I don't think science, rules out the possibility of Divinity.... It's just normally, so preoccupied with the path of objectivity....that 'subjectivity'....isn't a normal object of research.

 

But, this is what Psychology is all about, coming to understand what human subjectivity is.

 

I also would guess that if possible even Psychologists would be interested in the ultimate Psychology....or subjectivity....which is the Divine...

 

But, science has tried to get away from 'religion' because the habit of religion in the West, is to perpetuate particular views of life, religion and nature, even if they're wrong!

 

Look at all the examples of so-called, good religious people, believing that the Earth was the center of the Universe........ and so God evolved this nice....more objective system...so people could discuss and study and resolve deep differences without so much emotional turmoil.

 

What Religion & Science..both, needs to do, is practice techniques of God Realization, create a number of individuals who have become Enlightened, and then, and only....then will the Goal of Religion and Science...be fulfilled automatically.

 

And this is exactly what Maharishi has been doing.

 

In answer to some press people's questions to ....'Maharishi, ?.....(they asked Maharishi, what about your disciples? ...) And, Maharishi....said....

 

" I don't have disciples, I'm here to create Maharishis....! "

 

 

 

But Jyotish is based on that, e.g. fate, predeterminism etc.,

 

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this statement here. I believe Jyotish is not based on fate or predeterminism. It includes that. Jyotish appreciates that there is a predetermined, and I believe a better word might be: 'genetic', pre-determined quality of life.

 

But, this is only the Saturn aspect of life. Saturn represents that 'fated' or pre-determined quality. But, the more important Jupiter quality is the aspect of expansion, transformation and free will. Jupiter rules freedom and even free will, and the more aligned one is with the eternally free state of pure Consciousness then the more 'freedom' one has in this World.

 

Seers who are aligned with that state, Maharishi loves calling that state a state of all Possibilities. In that state one can do anything. One can fulfill any desire, one can walk on water, walk through a wall, anything. Ritam, is supreme....and to me, this Consciousness perspective...represents the highest form of Jupiter.

 

One time Maharishi was asked: " Maharishi, I don't understand ....is life fated or free? " And Maharishi smiled and said: " Both! " ....

 

And though the intellect goes beserk in trying to compute how the Universe can be both free and determined.... Maharishi simply says: " both " !.....

 

There is an eternally free state of pure being. Not caused, not causally connected, no pre-determined causality...eternally there, unbounded, unlimited power...

 

But, once the Universe begins...then one can say the ball of causality has begun.

 

But, at each stage of the creation, at every moment in creation, the Universe still maintains absolute freedom, and this is the mystery of life...

 

When a person wakes up to this supreme Reality, he has the ability to do anything and accomplish everything...and yet, he works within the Divine Plan....to accomplish the Divine's goals automatically.

 

Individuality and Cosmic life.... the great mystery of life....!

 

so it is an expression of God, the will and creation/system of God.

 

My humble view is that, therefore, it is not possible to prove to these people that Jyotish is indeed a science.

 

I know what you mean about how hard it is to do this. But, this has been Maharishi's angle for over 35 years.

 

I remember when we first tried convincing people in business and science, that rest was important. We would go to certain business people and tell them: 'we've got a great way to eliminate stress in the work place... "

 

and you know what they said? " .....oh?...no...we don't want our employees to be without stress. We want them stressed so they can accomplish more! "

 

And as hard as we tried to convince them that what we meant was that 'real stress' was that which was non-productive and reducing stress would just be positive for them and the companys as well as the individuals..

 

 

Well, you know what?,.... they couldn't hear it. They couldn't understand it. But, we continued, and continued, persisted and persisted...till a number of years later, the entire mind-set in the US and the World, suddently changed....

 

and then, we noticed when we went into business and said we wanted to show them a great technology of stress reduction...now, they say...'Stress?....oh yes!, come in, we want our employees to be without stress! "

 

So, dynamically has the entire World begun to be turned on to all the Vedic Principles, only 1 of which is about rest and activity....

 

Like that....each of the Vedic ideas can and need to be integrated with our World.

 

Maharishi used to tell us, the key to this revival is that you continually make this eternal Knowledge, relevant and timely with each stage of the World's development....

 

This will force us you to always stay practical in this Wisdom.

 

And I never forgot that.

 

This is part of what I'm doing in my Jyotish, is changeing people's views about Astrology, and helping them move into a more enlightened....Jyotish...

 

 

 

We can do statistical analysis, and present to them, but they are biased already. In western science there are several ways to reject truth, when the intention is to disregard the truth.

 

I know what you mean here, as it certainly seems like this, especially when you look at how hard old habits die. But, even Western Science is committed to that which can be proven true!

 

Look at Einstein's ideas, thought to be preposterous in the early 1900's...but slowly, especially since his ideas are deeply embedded in Mathemathics,.... then...evenutally his principles and theories...have come to be accepted as the definitive understanding of our entire World...

 

 

 

In the Holy Kor'an, interestingly it is said; " If they do not beleive in God, don't try to force them into beleiving, they won't " . So what for us is Science is for other people a matter of beleif and beyond Science according to them.

 

In this next future, those of us who believe in God... who are moving, actually, into a state of not just believing ...but actual experience of God....

 

we will be the true leaders of this World...

 

Once Maharishi encountered a very great disbeliever about God... and Maharishi said: " God is not a matter of belief only. There are many ways in which one can come to know God. Would you like to Know God? " , Maharishi said.

 

And the man was shocked and stumbled, mumbled saying,...'yes, yes...of course....how many ways are there? "

 

Maharishi said: " There are many ways and #1, when we take a thought and reduce it to an earlier and earlier stage of the development of that thought, eventually we return to the very source of thought, within. When we have this experience we're having a direct experience of the unbounded, eternal, Self...or if you'd like, God.... "

 

and on and on.... Today, God-realization is not a matter of faith or belief but now, it's open to all, even those who are non-believers, ....in fact...anyone who's at least open to trying, to experience... anyone...can now have this experience....

 

Maharish's often said: TM is the mechanical technique of God-Realization....

No belief needed.....

 

Take care, Adnan.

 

Jai Guru Dev.

 

P.S. Are you feeling any tiredness in the eyes these days? Sun square Saturn?

 

I don't think Jyotish has this Sun square quality.

 

though there are so many aspects today of maleficness.

 

Saturn in Gemini, fully aspects the Jupiter...

Rahu and Jupiter, locked in this incredible aspect, tension.

 

Sun's moving closer to Rahu, which will definitely be weird.

Saturn recently going direct, made Saturn more strong.

 

The recent transits of the Moon, in Aries, conjunct with RAhu,

then in Taurus, but then conjunct with Mars and hemmed in by Rahu and Saturn...too...

And now, the Moon transiting Gemini, where Sani...is....

 

That can definitely....reflect more tiredness....and the need to get more rest....

 

 

take care

 

 

nice talking to you.

 

 

sorry, if my response is a little long, I've missed you too!

 

ciao

 

 

Jai Guru!

 

 

Mark k.

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