Guest guest Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Dear All, Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III? Thanks and regards, tw , Luther Rath <rathluther wrote: > > Dear Sir, > Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we use KP System. > Thank you again. > Dr. Luther > > > > > swami <swami > > Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > Hari Om, > Dear Dr Luther, > I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict her future.By then HE was already recognized " inventor and exponent of application of SUB theory " . > Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification barring a few that are predictions or related to KP. > Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not share. > No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful. > Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must have been working on correct data rather then supplied data. > Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working. > Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them. > I hope I have clarified the point raised. > with regards. > OM TATSAT > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > Swami_RCS > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---- ----- -- > > - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > Dear Sirs, > After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time? > Are we wrong running after BTR? > Are we going beyond necessity? > Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number, with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity of BTR? > May I have the clerifications on the above points please? > > Dr. Luther > > > > > tw853 <tw853 > > @gro ups.com > Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM > Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > Dear Swami ji, > > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. They > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat- Sat > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the 8th > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the Tagore's > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > changing the TOB. > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the rectified > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > Indra's " 50 " major events in her " KP's Astrology & Prime Ministers " > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the historical > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc seems > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > George W Bush. > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and AA, > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank. > > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the post > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > Regards, > > tw > > From Msg#6579 > > I--INDIRA GANDHI > > TOBs > > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay > Gupte > > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344 > > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, " Predicting with Dasamsa " , > Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87 > > (4) 11:10 PM IST > http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp > > (5) 11:11 PM IST > (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106 > (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95 > © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy, > http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm > (d) • SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts > Ver 2.0 > (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > Astrology, p 112 > (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256 > (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50 > (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml > (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm > (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory > (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, " 41 Ghatis 52 Phals > and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST " > > (6) 11:15 PM > (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career, > p 94; > (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa > and Transit, p 10 > > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p > 365 > > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine > > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & PRIME > MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95 > > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote: > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > Hari Om, > > Dear TW ji > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart. > > Is astrology a science of justification? > > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission . > > Any views? > > OM TATSAT > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > Swami_RCS > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > - > > > > - > > tw853 > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > Dear Swami ji, > > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR. > > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too > far > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable. > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > tw > > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > Hari Om, > > > Dear TWji, > > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I > did > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > rectifcation > > is undertaken before chart reading. > > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then > > chart should be casted,How many follow it? > > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > check > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods. > > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where > he > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > life.( > > ref A & A July 1971) > > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi. > > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > Birth > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > Prenatal epoch theory) > > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the > BT is > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S. > > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment. > > > with regards > > > OM TATSAT > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > understanding. " > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > - > > > > > > - > > > tw853 > > > @gro ups.com > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that > > Guruji KSK " first " BTRed and only after that made the chart > > analysis?. > > > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought > > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III > or > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > says, " I > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you > can > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to > the > > research scholars. " > > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct > time > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > who is > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > correct > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in > the > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > Mother a > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > stage > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > card > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates > the > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken > as > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005) > > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > discussed > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > mentioned > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet > to > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > (when > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > Dr.Satyaprakash > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > the > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > umbilical > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But > the > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in > such > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons > and > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking > any > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will > > come to your help. > > > > > > GOOD LUCK > > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " K. P. Naidu " <konathalan@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear sri Luther Ji, > > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > importance > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is > based > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > may be > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above. > > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on " Birth Time is > > the time of new born's 1st breath "  Is the above Birth Time > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > breath ? > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > room > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > breath, > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > movement > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > 4th > > breath time. who knows except the God. > > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > the > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME. > > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles > on > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do > not > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > said > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > the > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth > Time > > especially in KP system. > > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > prediction comes true > > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > theortical > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality. > > > > , > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method. > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > Naidu KP > > > > K. P. Naidu, > > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., > > > > Nowroji Road, > > > > Maharanipeta, > > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. > > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote: > > > > Luther Rath rathluther@ > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > This is only an example. > > > > Supposing : - > > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun > > > >  > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub > > > > Because: - > > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00 > > > >            Ascendant falls at       26-42- > > 07 > > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > watch of > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few > seconds. > > Hope one and all agree to it. > > > >  > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun > sub- > > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac. > > > >  > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds. > > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > Ascendant > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change > the > > sub-sub from sun to Moon. > > > > That means: - > > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun. > > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon. > > > >  > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant. > > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to > be > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub? > > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant- > epoch > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub- > sub? > > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in > one > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these > are > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > the > > junctures. > > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same. > > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to > > the division of sign, star and subs. > > > >  > > > > 7th August 2008 > > > >  > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27- > > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu > > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 > > Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 > > Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo. > > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > system. > > So also the sub-sub. > > > >  > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > follows: - > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 40.0 Mins > > > > Kethu                            >  > >          46.7 Mins > > > > Mars                            >  > >          46.7 Mins > > > > Moon                             >  > >         66.7 Mins > > > > Jupiter                           > >        106.7 Mins > > > > Mercury                           > >     113.3 Mins > > > > Rahu                            >  > >        120.0 Mins > > > > Saturn                           >  > >       126.7 Mins > > > > Venus                            > >        133.3 Mins > > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs. > > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: - > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 2.000 Mins > > > > Kethu                            >  > >          2.333 Mins > > > > Mars                            >  > >           2.333 Mins > > > > Moon                             >  > >         3.333 Mins > > > > Jupiter                           > >          5.333 Mins > > > > Mercury                           > >       5.667 Mins > > > > Rahu                            >  > >          6.000 Mins > > > > Saturn                           >  > >         6.333 Mins > > > > Venus                            > >          6.667 Mins > > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign. > > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone. > > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time. > > > >  > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc. > > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc. > > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or > 60 > > seconds. > > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > seconds. > > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac. > > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be > > as follows: - > > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs > > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs > > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs > > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs > > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs > > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs > > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs > > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs > > > >  > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in > sub- > > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after > 1 > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 > or > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > brings a > > lot of differences in the twins. > > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc. > > > >  > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs > > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs > > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs > > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs > > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs > > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs > > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs > > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs > > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. > If > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > aspects. > > > >  > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does. > > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas > > > > > @gro ups..com > > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI > > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in > a > > sub > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > apprx. 54 > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds. > > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > apprx. 2 > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > lagna > > sub > > > > lord/sub sub lord. > > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > different > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > since > > moon > > > > stays long in a star/sub. > > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " punitp@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lajmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I > > believe > > > > that > > > > > > > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > don't > > > > have any > > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the > > forum is > > > > divided on > > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > method. > > I > > > > just wanted > > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit, > > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > recent book > > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :* > > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > 55,examples > > > > have been > > > > > > given by the author of this article...* > > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > remove all > > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > > > opinion.It has been > > > > > > > > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the > > time > > > > of > > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,* > > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > BTRT that I > > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW > > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > the > > > > planetary and > > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level... > > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > for > > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from > the > > exact > > > > TOB... > > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > Linda > > > > > > Goodman's book :* > > > > > > " *A woman can conceive only > > > > during > > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when > the > > SUN > > > > and the MOON > > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the > TOB > > of > > > > the* *Female > > > > > > in question*... " > > > > > > With best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > L.Y.Rao. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@ > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the > > accuracy > > > > of this > > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the > > file > > > > section. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > and > > some > > > > other senior > > > > > > members don't believe this method. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > com<tranquas@ ...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Respected seniors, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART > > who born > > > > in a > > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND > > SUB. But > > > > > >> > > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > activities. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY > > DIFFERENT > > > > AND > > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD > > AND SUB > > > > LORD > > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, > for > > a > > > > given > > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > 1,1966,lagna > > > > tarus,time > > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time > > 7.42 to > > > > 8.59) > > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > here it > > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun > > sub is > > > > coming > > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon > > > > > >> > > > > > >> If we > > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > moon > > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there > is > > much > > > > time > > > > > >> gap. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK > > > > > >> pl.advice > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click > > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c > > > > om/address> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > one > > roof. 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Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 || Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah Hari Om, Dear sir, " as`shown in the KP reader III?.This is not understood? I would like to make an attempt? with regards. OM TATSAT------------------------Swami_RCS -----------------------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."-- - tw853 Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Dear All,Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III?Thanks and regards,tw , Luther Rath <rathluther wrote:>> Dear Sir,> Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we use KP System.> Thank you again.> Dr. Luther> > > > > swami <swami> > Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> Hari Om,> Dear Dr Luther,> I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict her future.By then HE was already recognized "inventor and exponent of application of SUB theory".> Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification barring a few that are predictions or related to KP.> Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not share.> No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful.> Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must have been working on correct data rather then supplied data.> Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working.> Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them.> I hope I have clarified the point raised.> with regards. > OM TATSAT> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> Swami_RCS > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has> created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > Dear Sirs,> After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time?> Are we wrong running after BTR? > Are we going beyond necessity?> Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number, with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity of BTR?> May I have the clerifications on the above points please?> > Dr. Luther> > > > > tw853 <tw853 >> @gro ups.com> Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM> Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > Dear Swami ji,> > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. They > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat-Sat > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the 8th > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the Tagore's > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > changing the TOB. > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the rectified > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > Indra's "50" major events in her "KP's Astrology & Prime Ministers" > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the historical > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc seems > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > George W Bush. > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and AA, > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank.> > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the post > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > Regards,> > tw> > From Msg#6579> > I--INDIRA GANDHI> > TOBs> > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay> Gupte> > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344> > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, "Predicting with Dasamsa",> Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87> > (4) 11:10 PM IST> http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp> > (5) 11:11 PM IST> (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106> (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95> © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy,> http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm> (d) • SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts> Ver 2.0> (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi> Astrology, p 112> (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256> (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50> (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml> (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm> (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory> (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, "41 Ghatis 52 Phals> and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST"> > (6) 11:15 PM> (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career,> p 94;> (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa> and Transit, p 10> > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p> 365> > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine> > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & PRIME> MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95> > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> >> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > Hari Om,> > Dear TW ji > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart.> > Is astrology a science of justification?> > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission .> > Any views?> > OM TATSAT> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > Swami_RCS > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> -> > > > - > > tw853 > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR.> > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too > far > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable.> > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > tw> > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > Hari Om,> > > Dear TWji,> > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I > did > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > rectifcation > > is undertaken before chart reading.> > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then > > chart should be casted,How many follow it?> > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > check > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.> > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where > he > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > life.( > > ref A & A July 1971)> > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.> > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > Birth > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > Prenatal epoch theory)> > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the > BT is > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.> > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.> > > with regards> > > OM TATSAT> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > understanding. "> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ----------> > -> > > > > > - > > > tw853 > > > @gro ups.com > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that > > Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart > > analysis?. > > > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > > > tw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought> > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III > or > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > says, "I > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you > can > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to > the > > research scholars."> > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct > time > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > who is > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > correct > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in > the > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > Mother a > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > stage > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > card > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates > the > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken > as > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > discussed > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > mentioned > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet > to > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > (when > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > Dr.Satyaprakash > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > the > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > umbilical > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But > the > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in > such > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons > and > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking > any > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will > > come to your help.> > > > > > GOOD LUCK> > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@ > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear sri Luther Ji,> > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > importance > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is > based > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > may be > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is > > the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > breath ? > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > room > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > breath, > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > movement > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > 4th > > breath time. who knows except the God.> > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > the > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles > on > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do > not > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > said > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > the > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth > Time > > especially in KP system.> > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > prediction comes true> > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > theortical > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> > > > , > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > > > Naidu KP> > > > K. P. Naidu,> > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> > > > Nowroji Road,> > > > Maharanipeta,> > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:> > > > Luther Rath rathluther@> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > This is only an example. > > > > Supposing : -> > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> > > >  > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> > > > Because: -> > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00> > > >            Ascendant falls at       26-42-> > 07> > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > watch of > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few > seconds. > > Hope one and all agree to it.> > > >  > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun > sub-> > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.> > > >  > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > Ascendant > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change > the > > sub-sub from sun to Moon.> > > > That means: -> > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> > > >  > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to > be > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-> epoch > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-> sub?> > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in > one > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these > are > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > the > > junctures. > > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to > > the division of sign, star and subs.> > > >  > > > > 7th August 2008> > > >  > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-> > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > system. > > So also the sub-sub. > > > >  > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > follows: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 40.0 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         66.7 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >        106.7 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >     113.3 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >        120.0 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >       126.7 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >        133.3 Mins> > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 2.000 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          2.333 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >           2.333 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         3.333 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >          5.333 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >       5.667 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >          6.000 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >         6.333 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >          6.667 Mins> > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.> > > >  > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or > 60 > > seconds.> > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > seconds.> > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be > > as follows: -> > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > >  > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in > sub-> > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after > 1 > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 > or > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > brings a > > lot of differences in the twins.> > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.> > > >  > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. > If > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > aspects.> > > >  > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> > > > @gro ups..com> > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in > a > > sub > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > apprx. 54 > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > apprx. 2 > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > lagna > > sub > > > > lord/sub sub lord.> > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > different > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > since > > moon > > > > stays long in a star/sub.> > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I > > believe > > > > that> > > > >> > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > don't > > > > have any> > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the > > forum is > > > > divided on> > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > method. > > I > > > > just wanted> > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members..> > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > recent book> > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > 55,examples > > > > have been> > > > > > given by the author of this article...*> > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > remove all> > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > > > opinion.It has been> > > > > >> > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the > > time > > > > of> > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > BTRT that I> > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > the > > > > planetary and> > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > for> > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from > the > > exact > > > > TOB...> > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > Linda> > > > > > Goodman's book :*> > > > > > "*A woman can conceive only > > > > during> > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when > the > > SUN > > > > and the MOON> > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the > TOB > > of > > > > the* *Female> > > > > > in question*... "> > > > > > With best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > L.Y.Rao.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the > > accuracy > > > > of this> > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the > > file > > > > section.> > > > > >> > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > and > > some > > > > other senior> > > > > > members don't believe this method.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> Respected seniors,> > > > > >>> > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART > > who born > > > > in a> > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND > > SUB. But> > > > > >>> > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > activities.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY > > DIFFERENT > > > > AND> > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD > > AND SUB > > > > LORD> > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, > for > > a > > > > given> > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > 1,1966,lagna > > > > tarus,time> > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time > > 7.42 to > > > > 8.59)> > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > here it> > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun > > sub is > > > > coming> > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we> > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > moon> > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there > is > > much > > > > time> > > > > >> gap.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > > > > >> pl.advice> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> > > > om/address>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > one > > roof. 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Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Dear Swami ji, 1. Thanks for your response. I would like to request other BTR practitioners also to practically make an attempt like you. Because he is our Guruji for KP lovers. 2. Guruji's rasi chart along with the navamsa chart is shown the same in the original KP Vol. 2 and the Old and New Edition of the KP Reader III. 3. The accuracy of TOB is crucial not only in the KP analysis but also in the Vedic, if one is using the namsa. Dr. BV Raman didn't use the namsa not much in his prediction. 4. In my opinion, the BTR is to be tried, only if the consultant is doubtful about the accuracy of his TOB because there is no guarantte that the rectifed TOB is more accurate than the given one. A little knowledge in doing the BTR may be dangerious and one may be cursed for the misguiding prediction based on the unreliable rectied TOB. 5. There is no practical examples in the KP Readers of doing the analysis, only after the BTR (even in Indira's case, only justification without prediction) , and the BTR is written at the end of the book with no forceful wording of his usual style. So there is not his strong view on the BTR methods. I've no comment on what one is saying without the proof or fact. Thanks and regards, tw , " swami " <swami wrote: > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah > Hari Om, > Dear sir, > " as`shown in the KP reader III?.This is not understood? > I would like to make an attempt? > with regards. > OM TATSAT > ------------------------ > Swami_RCS > ----------------------- > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > - - > > - > tw853 > > Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM > Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB > > > Dear All, > > Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the > close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III? > > Thanks and regards, > > tw > , Luther Rath <rathluther@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Sir, > > Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient > clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we > use KP System. > > Thank you again. > > Dr. Luther > > > > > > > > > > swami <swami@> > > > > Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > Hari Om, > > Dear Dr Luther, > > I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to > Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict > her future.By then HE was already recognized " inventor and exponent > of application of SUB theory " . > > Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified > by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and > rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification > barring a few that are predictions or related to KP. > > Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They > may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any > data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not > share. > > No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate > Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful. > > Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left > around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by > Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must > have been working on correct data rather then supplied data. > > Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my > consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their > astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working. > > Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have > great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them. > > I hope I have clarified the point raised. > > with regards. > > OM TATSAT > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > Swami_RCS > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being > who has > > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---- > ----- -- > > > > - > > Luther Rath > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > Dear Sirs, > > After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira > Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have > predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule > out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to > justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though > they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not > needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers > examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not > giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage > of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time? > > Are we wrong running after BTR? > > Are we going beyond necessity? > > Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number, > with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity > of BTR? > > May I have the clerifications on the above points please? > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > > > > > > > tw853 <tw853 > > > @gro ups.com > > Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM > > Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > > > Dear Swami ji, > > > > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. > They > > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat- > Sat > > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two > > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the > 8th > > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the > Tagore's > > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > > changing the TOB. > > > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the > rectified > > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > > Indra's " 50 " major events in her " KP's Astrology & Prime > Ministers " > > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the > historical > > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc > seems > > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > > George W Bush. > > > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and > AA, > > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank. > > > > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the > post > > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > > > Regards, > > > > tw > > > > From Msg#6579 > > > > I--INDIRA GANDHI > > > > TOBs > > > > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay > > Gupte > > > > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344 > > > > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, " Predicting with Dasamsa " , > > Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87 > > > > (4) 11:10 PM IST > > http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp > > > > (5) 11:11 PM IST > > (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106 > > (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95 > > © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy, > > http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm > > (d) . SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts > > Ver 2.0 > > (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > Astrology, p 112 > > (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256 > > (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50 > > (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml > > (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm > > (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory > > (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, " 41 Ghatis 52 Phals > > and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST " > > > > (6) 11:15 PM > > (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career, > > p 94; > > (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa > > and Transit, p 10 > > > > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p > > 365 > > > > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine > > > > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & > PRIME > > MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95 > > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > Hari Om, > > > Dear TW ji > > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart. > > > Is astrology a science of justification? > > > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission . > > > Any views? > > > OM TATSAT > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- - > > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- - - > > - > > > > > > - > > > tw853 > > > @gro ups.com > > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > Dear Swami ji, > > > > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR. > > > > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too > > far > > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable. > > > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > > > tw > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > > Hari Om, > > > > Dear TWji, > > > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I > > did > > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > > rectifcation > > > is undertaken before chart reading. > > > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then > > > chart should be casted,How many follow it? > > > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > > check > > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods. > > > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where > > he > > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > > life.( > > > ref A & A July 1971) > > > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi. > > > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > > Birth > > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > > Prenatal epoch theory) > > > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the > > BT is > > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S. > > > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment. > > > > with regards > > > > OM TATSAT > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ --- > > > > Swami_RCS > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ -- > > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > > Being > > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > > understanding. " > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ --- > - > > > - > > > > > > > > - > > > > tw853 > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that > > > Guruji KSK " first " BTRed and only after that made the chart > > > analysis?. > > > > > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought > > > > > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III > > or > > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > > says, " I > > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you > > can > > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to > > the > > > research scholars. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct > > time > > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be > > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > > who is > > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > > correct > > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in > > the > > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his > > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > > Mother a > > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > > stage > > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > > card > > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates > > the > > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken > > as > > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to > > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have > > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > > discussed > > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > > mentioned > > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet > > to > > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of > > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > > (when > > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > > Dr.Satyaprakash > > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > > the > > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > > umbilical > > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But > > the > > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in > > such > > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons > > and > > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking > > any > > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will > > > come to your help. > > > > > > > > GOOD LUCK > > > > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " K. P. Naidu " <konathalan@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear sri Luther Ji, > > > > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > > importance > > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is > > based > > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time > > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > > may be > > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above. > > > > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on " Birth Time is > > > the time of new born's 1st breath "  Is the above Birth Time > > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > > breath ? > > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > > room > > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > > breath, > > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > > movement > > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > > 4th > > > breath time. who knows except the God. > > > > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > > the > > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the > > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME. > > > > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles > > on > > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do > > not > > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > > said > > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > > the > > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth > > Time > > > especially in KP system. > > > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > > prediction comes true > > > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > > theortical > > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and > > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality. > > > > > , > > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers > > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method. > > > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > > > Naidu KP > > > > > K. P. Naidu, > > > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., > > > > > Nowroji Road, > > > > > Maharanipeta, > > > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. > > > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote: > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther@ > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > > This is only an example. > > > > > Supposing : - > > > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    > > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > >  > > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub > > > > > Because: - > > > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00 > > > > >            Ascendant falls at       26- 42- > > > 07 > > > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and > > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > > watch of > > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body > > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few > > seconds. > > > Hope one and all agree to it. > > > > >  > > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun > > sub- > > > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac. > > > > >  > > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds. > > > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 > > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > > Ascendant > > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change > > the > > > sub-sub from sun to Moon. > > > > > That means: - > > > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun. > > > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon. > > > > >  > > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant. > > > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to > > be > > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give > > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should > > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub? > > > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of > > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, > > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant- > > epoch > > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub- > > sub? > > > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in > > one > > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these > > are > > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > > the > > > junctures. > > > > >  > > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share > > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same. > > > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to > > > the division of sign, star and subs. > > > > >  > > > > > 7th August 2008 > > > > >  > > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27- > > > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu > > > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42- 07 > > > Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59- 19 > > > Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo. > > > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara > > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > > system. > > > So also the sub-sub. > > > > >  > > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > > follows: - > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > > 40.0 Mins > > > > > Kethu                            > >  > > >          46.7 Mins > > > > > Mars                            > >  > > >          46.7 Mins > > > > > Moon                             > >  > > >         66.7 Mins > > > > > Jupiter                           > > >        106.7 Mins > > > > > Mercury                           > > >     113.3 Mins > > > > > Rahu                            > >  > > >        120.0 Mins > > > > > Saturn                           > >  > > >       126.7 Mins > > > > > Venus                            > > >        133.3 Mins > > > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs. > > > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: - > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > > 2.000 Mins > > > > > Kethu                            > >  > > >          2.333 Mins > > > > > Mars                            > >  > > >           2.333 Mins > > > > > Moon                             > >  > > >         3.333 Mins > > > > > Jupiter                           > > >          5.333 Mins > > > > > Mercury                           > > >       5.667 Mins > > > > > Rahu                            > >  > > >          6.000 Mins > > > > > Saturn                           > >  > > >         6.333 Mins > > > > > Venus                            > > >          6.667 Mins > > > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign. > > > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone. > > > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time. > > > > >  > > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc. > > > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = > > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc. > > > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or > > 60 > > > seconds. > > > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > > seconds. > > > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac. > > > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be > > > as follows: - > > > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs > > > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs > > > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs > > > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs > > > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs > > > > >  > > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st > > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in > > sub- > > > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 > > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after > > 1 > > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 > > or > > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > > brings a > > > lot of differences in the twins. > > > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc. > > > > >  > > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs > > > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs > > > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs > > > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs > > > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs > > > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, > > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. > > If > > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must > > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > > aspects. > > > > >  > > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation > > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon > > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does. > > > > >  > > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas > > > > > > @gro ups..com > > > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI > > > > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in > > a > > > sub > > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > > apprx. 54 > > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > > apprx. 2 > > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > > lagna > > > sub > > > > > lord/sub sub lord. > > > > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > > different > > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > > since > > > moon > > > > > stays long in a star/sub. > > > > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " punitp@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lajmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I > > > believe > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > > don't > > > > > have any > > > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the > > > forum is > > > > > divided on > > > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > > method. > > > I > > > > > just wanted > > > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit, > > > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > > recent book > > > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :* > > > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > > 55,examples > > > > > have been > > > > > > > given by the author of this article...* > > > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > > remove all > > > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > > > > opinion.It has been > > > > > > > > > > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the > > > time > > > > > of > > > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,* > > > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > > BTRT that I > > > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW > > > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > > the > > > > > planetary and > > > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level... > > > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > > for > > > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from > > the > > > exact > > > > > TOB... > > > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > > Linda > > > > > > > Goodman's book :* > > > > > > > " *A woman can conceive only > > > > > during > > > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when > > the > > > SUN > > > > > and the MOON > > > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the > > TOB > > > of > > > > > the* *Female > > > > > > > in question*... " > > > > > > > With best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > L.Y.Rao. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@ > > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM > > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the > > > accuracy > > > > > of this > > > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the > > > file > > > > > section. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > > and > > > some > > > > > other senior > > > > > > > members don't believe this method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > > com<tranquas@ ...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Respected seniors, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART > > > who born > > > > > in a > > > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND > > > SUB. But > > > > > > >> > > > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > > activities. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY > > > DIFFERENT > > > > > AND > > > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD > > > AND SUB > > > > > LORD > > > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, > > for > > > a > > > > > given > > > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > > 1,1966,lagna > > > > > tarus,time > > > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time > > > 7.42 to > > > > > 8.59) > > > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > > here it > > > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun > > > sub is > > > > > coming > > > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> If we > > > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > > moon > > > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there > > is > > > much > > > > > time > > > > > > >> gap. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK > > > > > > >> pl.advice > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click > > > > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c > > > > > om/address> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > > one > > > roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 BTR truely a very simple method and i have experimented in many cases with or without birth details. SS--- On Tue, 19/8/08, swami <swami wrote: swami <swamiRe: Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Date: Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 2:45 PM || Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah Hari Om, Dear sir, " as`shown in the KP reader III?.This is not understood? I would like to make an attempt? with regards. OM TATSAT------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Swami_RCS ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- - tw853 @gro ups.com Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Dear All,Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III?Thanks and regards,tw@gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sir,> Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we use KP System.> Thank you again.> Dr. Luther> > > > > swami <swami> @gro ups.com> Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> Hari Om,> Dear Dr Luther,> I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict her future.By then HE was already recognized "inventor and exponent of application of SUB theory".> Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification barring a few that are predictions or related to KP.> Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not share.> No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful.> Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must have been working on correct data rather then supplied data.> Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working.> Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them.> I hope I have clarified the point raised.> with regards. > OM TATSAT> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> Swami_RCS > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has> created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > Dear Sirs,> After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time?> Are we wrong running after BTR? > Are we going beyond necessity?> Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number, with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity of BTR?> May I have the clerifications on the above points please?> > Dr. Luther> > > > > tw853 <tw853 >> @gro ups.com> Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM> Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > Dear Swami ji,> > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. They > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat-Sat > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the 8th > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the Tagore's > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > changing the TOB. > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the rectified > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > Indra's "50" major events in her "KP's Astrology & Prime Ministers" > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the historical > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc seems > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > George W Bush. > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and AA, > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank.> > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the post > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > Regards,> > tw> > From Msg#6579> > I--INDIRA GANDHI> > TOBs> > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay> Gupte> > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344> > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, "Predicting with Dasamsa",> Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87> > (4) 11:10 PM IST> http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp> > (5) 11:11 PM IST> (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106> (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95> © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy,> http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm> (d) • SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts> Ver 2.0> (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi> Astrology, p 112> (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256> (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50> (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml> (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm> (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory> (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, "41 Ghatis 52 Phals> and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST"> > (6) 11:15 PM> (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career,> p 94;> (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa> and Transit, p 10> > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p> 365> > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine> > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & PRIME> MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95> > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> >> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > Hari Om,> > Dear TW ji > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart.> > Is astrology a science of justification?> > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission .> > Any views?> > OM TATSAT> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > Swami_RCS > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> -> > > > - > > tw853 > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR.> > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too > far > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable.> > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > tw> > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > Hari Om,> > > Dear TWji,> > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I > did > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > rectifcation > > is undertaken before chart reading.> > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then > > chart should be casted,How many follow it?> > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > check > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.> > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where > he > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > life.( > > ref A & A July 1971)> > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.> > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > Birth > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > Prenatal epoch theory)> > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the > BT is > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.> > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.> > > with regards> > > OM TATSAT> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > understanding. "> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ----------> > -> > > > > > - > > > tw853 > > > @gro ups.com > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that > > Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart > > analysis?. > > > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > > > tw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought> > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III > or > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > says, "I > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you > can > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to > the > > research scholars."> > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct > time > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > who is > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > correct > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in > the > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > Mother a > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > stage > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > card > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates > the > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken > as > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > discussed > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > mentioned > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet > to > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > (when > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > Dr.Satyaprakash > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > the > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > umbilical > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But > the > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in > such > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons > and > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking > any > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will > > come to your help.> > > > > > GOOD LUCK> > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@ > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear sri Luther Ji,> > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > importance > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is > based > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > may be > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is > > the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > breath ? > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > room > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > breath, > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > movement > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > 4th > > breath time. who knows except the God.> > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > the > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles > on > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do > not > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > said > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > the > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth > Time > > especially in KP system.> > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > prediction comes true> > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > theortical > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> > > > , > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > > > Naidu KP> > > > K. P. Naidu,> > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> > > > Nowroji Road,> > > > Maharanipeta,> > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:> > > > Luther Rath rathluther@> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > This is only an example. > > > > Supposing : -> > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> > > >  > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> > > > Because: -> > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00> > > >            Ascendant falls at       26-42-> > 07> > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > watch of > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few > seconds. > > Hope one and all agree to it.> > > >  > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun > sub-> > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.> > > >  > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > Ascendant > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change > the > > sub-sub from sun to Moon.> > > > That means: -> > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> > > >  > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to > be > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-> epoch > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-> sub?> > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in > one > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these > are > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > the > > junctures. > > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to > > the division of sign, star and subs.> > > >  > > > > 7th August 2008> > > >  > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-> > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > system. > > So also the sub-sub. > > > >  > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > follows: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 40.0 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         66.7 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >        106.7 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >     113.3 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >        120.0 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >       126.7 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >        133.3 Mins> > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 2.000 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          2.333 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >           2.333 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         3.333 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >          5.333 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >       5.667 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >          6.000 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >         6.333 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >          6.667 Mins> > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.> > > >  > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or > 60 > > seconds.> > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > seconds.> > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be > > as follows: -> > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > >  > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in > sub-> > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after > 1 > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 > or > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > brings a > > lot of differences in the twins.> > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.> > > >  > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. > If > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > aspects.> > > >  > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> > > > @gro ups..com> > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in > a > > sub > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > apprx. 54 > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > apprx. 2 > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > lagna > > sub > > > > lord/sub sub lord.> > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > different > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > since > > moon > > > > stays long in a star/sub.> > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I > > believe > > > > that> > > > >> > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > don't > > > > have any> > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the > > forum is > > > > divided on> > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > method. > > I > > > > just wanted> > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members..> > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > recent book> > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > 55,examples > > > > have been> > > > > > given by the author of this article...*> > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > remove all> > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > > > opinion.It has been> > > > > >> > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the > > time > > > > of> > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > BTRT that I> > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > the > > > > planetary and> > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > for> > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from > the > > exact > > > > TOB...> > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > Linda> > > > > > Goodman's book :*> > > > > > "*A woman can conceive only > > > > during> > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when > the > > SUN > > > > and the MOON> > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the > TOB > > of > > > > the* *Female> > > > > > in question*... "> > > > > > With best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > L.Y.Rao.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the > > accuracy > > > > of this> > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the > > file > > > > section.> > > > > >> > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > and > > some > > > > other senior> > > > > > members don't believe this method.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> Respected seniors,> > > > > >>> > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART > > who born > > > > in a> > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND > > SUB. But> > > > > >>> > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > activities.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY > > DIFFERENT > > > > AND> > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD > > AND SUB > > > > LORD> > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, > for > > a > > > > given> > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > 1,1966,lagna > > > > tarus,time> > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time > > 7.42 to > > > > 8.59)> > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > here it> > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun > > sub is > > > > coming> > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we> > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > moon> > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there > is > > much > > > > time> > > > > >> gap.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > > > > >> pl.advice> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> > > > om/address>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > one > > roof. 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Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Dear Sagar ji, Are you talking about BRT using RP or something else? In case it is something else, would appreciate if you can share that method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Sagar S <ssagar86 wrote: BTR truely a very simple method and i have experimented in many cases with or without birth details. SS--- On Tue, 19/8/08, swami <swami wrote: swami <swamiRe: Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Date: Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 2:45 PM || Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah Hari Om, Dear sir, " as`shown in the KP reader III?.This is not understood? I would like to make an attempt? with regards. OM TATSAT------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Swami_RCS ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- - tw853 @gro ups.com Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Dear All,Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III?Thanks and regards,tw @gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sir,> Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we use KP System. > Thank you again.> Dr. Luther> > > > > swami <swami > @gro ups.com> Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> Hari Om,> Dear Dr Luther,> I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict her future.By then HE was already recognized " inventor and exponent of application of SUB theory " .> Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification barring a few that are predictions or related to KP.> Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not share.> No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful.> Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must have been working on correct data rather then supplied data.> Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working. > Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them.> I hope I have clarified the point raised.> with regards. > OM TATSAT > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> Swami_RCS > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has> created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > Dear Sirs,> After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time?> Are we wrong running after BTR? > Are we going beyond necessity?> Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number, with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity of BTR?> May I have the clerifications on the above points please?> > Dr. Luther> > > > > tw853 <tw853 >> @gro ups.com> Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM> Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > Dear Swami ji,> > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. They > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat-Sat > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the 8th > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the Tagore's > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > changing the TOB. > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the rectified > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > Indra's " 50 " major events in her " KP's Astrology & Prime Ministers " > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the historical > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc seems > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > George W Bush. > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and AA, > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank. > > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the post > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > Regards,> > tw> > From Msg#6579 > > I--INDIRA GANDHI> > TOBs> > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay> Gupte> > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344 > > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, " Predicting with Dasamsa " ,> Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87> > (4) 11:10 PM IST> http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp > > (5) 11:11 PM IST> (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106> (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95> © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy,> http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm > (d) • SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts> Ver 2.0> (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi> Astrology, p 112> (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256 > (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50> (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml> (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm > (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory> (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, " 41 Ghatis 52 Phals> and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST " > > (6) 11:15 PM> (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career, > p 94;> (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa> and Transit, p 10> > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p> 365 > > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine> > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & PRIME> MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95> > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote:> >> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > Hari Om,> > Dear TW ji > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart.> > Is astrology a science of justification? > > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission .> > Any views?> > OM TATSAT> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > Swami_RCS > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> -> > > > - > > tw853 > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR. > > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too > far > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable.> > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > tw> > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > Hari Om,> > > Dear TWji,> > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I > did > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > rectifcation > > is undertaken before chart reading.> > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then > > chart should be casted,How many follow it?> > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > check > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.> > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where > he > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > life.( > > ref A & A July 1971)> > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.> > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > Birth > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > Prenatal epoch theory)> > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the > BT is > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.> > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.> > > with regards> > > OM TATSAT> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > understanding. " > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ----------> > -> > > > > > - > > > tw853 > > > @gro ups.com > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that > > Guruji KSK " first " BTRed and only after that made the chart > > analysis?. > > > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > > > tw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought > > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III > or > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > says, " I > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you > can > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to > the > > research scholars. " > > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct > time > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > who is > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > correct > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in > the > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > Mother a > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > stage > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > card > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates > the > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken > as > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > discussed > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > mentioned > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet > to > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > (when > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > Dr.Satyaprakash > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > the > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > umbilical > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But > the > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in > such > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons > and > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking > any > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will > > come to your help.> > > > > > GOOD LUCK> > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " K. P. Naidu " <konathalan@ > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear sri Luther Ji,> > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > importance > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is > based > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > may be > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above. > > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on " Birth Time is > > the time of new born's 1st breath "  Is the above Birth Time > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > breath ? > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > room > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > breath, > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > movement > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > 4th > > breath time. who knows except the God.> > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > the > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles > on > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do > not > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > said > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > the > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth > Time > > especially in KP system.> > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > prediction comes true> > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > theortical > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality. > > > > , > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > Naidu KP> > > > K. P. Naidu,> > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> > > > Nowroji Road,> > > > Maharanipeta,> > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. > > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:> > > > Luther Rath rathluther@> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > This is only an example. > > > > Supposing : -> > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> > > >  > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> > > > Because: -> > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00> > > >            Ascendant falls at       26-42- > > 07> > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > watch of > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few > seconds. > > Hope one and all agree to it.> > > >  > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun > sub-> > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.> > > >  > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > Ascendant > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change > the > > sub-sub from sun to Moon. > > > > That means: -> > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> > > >  > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant. > > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to > be > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant- > epoch > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-> sub?> > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in > one > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these > are > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > the > > junctures. > > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to > > the division of sign, star and subs.> > > >  > > > > 7th August 2008> > > >  > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-> > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > system. > > So also the sub-sub. > > > >  > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > follows: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 40.0 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         66.7 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >        106.7 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >     113.3 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >        120.0 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >       126.7 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >        133.3 Mins> > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 2.000 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          2.333 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >           2.333 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         3.333 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >          5.333 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >       5.667 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >          6.000 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >         6.333 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >          6.667 Mins> > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time. > > > >  > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc. > > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or > 60 > > seconds.> > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > seconds.> > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac. > > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be > > as follows: -> > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs > > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs > > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs > > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > >  > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in > sub-> > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after > 1 > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 > or > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > brings a > > lot of differences in the twins.> > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc. > > > >  > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs > > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs > > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs > > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. > If > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > aspects.> > > >  > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> > > > @gro ups..com> > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in > a > > sub > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > apprx. 54 > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds. > > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > apprx. 2 > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > lagna > > sub > > > > lord/sub sub lord.> > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > different > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > since > > moon > > > > stays long in a star/sub.> > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " punitp@ > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I > > believe > > > > that> > > > >> > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > don't > > > > have any> > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the > > forum is > > > > divided on> > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > method. > > I > > > > just wanted> > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > recent book > > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > 55,examples > > > > have been> > > > > > given by the author of this article...* > > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > remove all> > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > > > opinion.It has been > > > > > >> > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the > > time > > > > of> > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,* > > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > BTRT that I> > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW > > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > the > > > > planetary and> > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > for> > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from > the > > exact > > > > TOB...> > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > Linda> > > > > > Goodman's book :*> > > > > > " *A woman can conceive only > > > > during> > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when > the > > SUN > > > > and the MOON> > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the > TOB > > of > > > > the* *Female > > > > > > in question*... " > > > > > > With best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > L.Y.Rao.> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji, > > > > > >> > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the > > accuracy > > > > of this> > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the > > file > > > > section.> > > > > >> > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > and > > some > > > > other senior > > > > > > members don't believe this method.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > com<tranquas@ ...> > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> Respected seniors,> > > > > >>> > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification: > > > > > >>> > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART > > who born > > > > in a> > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND > > SUB. But> > > > > >>> > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > activities.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY > > DIFFERENT > > > > AND> > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD > > AND SUB > > > > LORD> > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, > for > > a > > > > given> > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > 1,1966,lagna > > > > tarus,time> > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time > > 7.42 to > > > > 8.59)> > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > here it> > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun > > sub is > > > > coming> > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we> > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > moon> > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there > is > > much > > > > time> > > > > >> gap. > > > > > >>> > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > > > > >> pl.advice> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> > > > om/address>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > one > > roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/> > > >> > > > >> Be the first one to try the new Messenger 9 Beta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Dear Mr.panday I am talking about Birth time rectification. It is very simple as per my experience between 1986 and 1993, some of my write up on the same appeared in KP & Astrology in 1992/1993. I am enclosing Mr.Mikhailorbachev's chaRT AS PER BTR for ur kind reference. of course some time we will get confussion, but not so worried . Regards Sahhasra Saagara--- On Tue, 19/8/08, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote: Punit Pandey <punitpRe: Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Date: Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 7:16 PM Dear Sagar ji, Are you talking about BRT using RP or something else? In case it is something else, would appreciate if you can share that method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Sagar S <ssagar86 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: BTR truely a very simple method and i have experimented in many cases with or without birth details. SS--- On Tue, 19/8/08, swami <swami (AT) kaalvastu (DOT) com> wrote: swami <swami (AT) kaalvastu (DOT) com>Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB @gro ups.comTuesday, 19 August, 2008, 2:45 PM || Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah Hari Om, Dear sir, " as`shown in the KP reader III?.This is not understood? I would like to make an attempt? with regards. OM TATSAT------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Swami_RCS ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- - tw853 @gro ups.com Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Dear All,Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III?Thanks and regards,tw@gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sir,> Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we use KP System.> Thank you again.> Dr. Luther> > > > > swami <swami > @gro ups.com> Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> Hari Om,> Dear Dr Luther,> I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict her future.By then HE was already recognized "inventor and exponent of application of SUB theory".> Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification barring a few that are predictions or related to KP.> Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not share.> No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful.> Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must have been working on correct data rather then supplied data.> Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working.> Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them.> I hope I have clarified the point raised.> with regards. > OM TATSAT> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> Swami_RCS > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has> created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > Dear Sirs,> After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time?> Are we wrong running after BTR? > Are we going beyond necessity?> Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number, with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity of BTR?> May I have the clerifications on the above points please?> > Dr. Luther> > > > > tw853 <tw853 >> @gro ups.com> Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM> Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > Dear Swami ji,> > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. They > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat-Sat > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the 8th > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the Tagore's > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > changing the TOB. > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the rectified > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > Indra's "50" major events in her "KP's Astrology & Prime Ministers" > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the historical > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc seems > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > George W Bush. > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and AA, > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank.> > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the post > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > Regards,> > tw> > From Msg#6579> > I--INDIRA GANDHI> > TOBs> > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay> Gupte> > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344> > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, "Predicting with Dasamsa",> Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87> > (4) 11:10 PM IST> http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp> > (5) 11:11 PM IST> (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106> (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95> © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy,> http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm> (d) • SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts> Ver 2.0> (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi> Astrology, p 112> (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256> (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50> (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml> (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm> (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory> (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, "41 Ghatis 52 Phals> and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST"> > (6) 11:15 PM> (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career,> p 94;> (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa> and Transit, p 10> > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p> 365> > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine> > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & PRIME> MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95> > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> >> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > Hari Om,> > Dear TW ji > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart.> > Is astrology a science of justification?> > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission .> > Any views?> > OM TATSAT> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > Swami_RCS > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> -> > > > - > > tw853 > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR.> > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too > far > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable.> > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > tw> > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > Hari Om,> > > Dear TWji,> > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I > did > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > rectifcation > > is undertaken before chart reading.> > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then > > chart should be casted,How many follow it?> > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > check > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.> > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where > he > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > life.( > > ref A & A July 1971)> > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.> > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > Birth > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > Prenatal epoch theory)> > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the > BT is > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.> > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.> > > with regards> > > OM TATSAT> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > understanding. "> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ----------> > -> > > > > > - > > > tw853 > > > @gro ups.com > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that > > Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart > > analysis?. > > > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > > > tw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought> > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III > or > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > says, "I > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you > can > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to > the > > research scholars."> > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct > time > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > who is > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > correct > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in > the > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > Mother a > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > stage > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > card > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates > the > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken > as > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > discussed > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > mentioned > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet > to > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > (when > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > Dr.Satyaprakash > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > the > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > umbilical > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But > the > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in > such > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons > and > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking > any > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will > > come to your help.> > > > > > GOOD LUCK> > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@ > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear sri Luther Ji,> > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > importance > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is > based > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > may be > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is > > the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > breath ? > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > room > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > breath, > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > movement > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > 4th > > breath time. who knows except the God.> > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > the > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles > on > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do > not > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > said > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > the > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth > Time > > especially in KP system.> > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > prediction comes true> > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > theortical > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> > > > , > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > > > Naidu KP> > > > K. P. Naidu,> > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> > > > Nowroji Road,> > > > Maharanipeta,> > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:> > > > Luther Rath rathluther@> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > This is only an example. > > > > Supposing : -> > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> > > >  > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> > > > Because: -> > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00> > > >            Ascendant falls at       26-42-> > 07> > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > watch of > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few > seconds. > > Hope one and all agree to it.> > > >  > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun > sub-> > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.> > > >  > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > Ascendant > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change > the > > sub-sub from sun to Moon.> > > > That means: -> > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> > > >  > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to > be > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-> epoch > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-> sub?> > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in > one > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these > are > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > the > > junctures. > > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----> > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to > > the division of sign, star and subs.> > > >  > > > > 7th August 2008> > > >  > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-> > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > system. > > So also the sub-sub. > > > >  > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > follows: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 40.0 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         66.7 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >        106.7 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >     113.3 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >        120.0 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >       126.7 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >        133.3 Mins> > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 2.000 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          2.333 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >           2.333 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         3.333 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >          5.333 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >       5.667 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >          6.000 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >         6.333 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >          6.667 Mins> > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.> > > >  > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or > 60 > > seconds.> > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > seconds.> > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be > > as follows: -> > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > >  > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in > sub-> > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after > 1 > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 > or > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > brings a > > lot of differences in the twins.> > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.> > > >  > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. > If > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > aspects.> > > >  > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> > > > @gro ups..com> > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in > a > > sub > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > apprx. 54 > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > apprx. 2 > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > lagna > > sub > > > > lord/sub sub lord.> > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > different > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > since > > moon > > > > stays long in a star/sub.> > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I > > believe > > > > that> > > > >> > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > don't > > > > have any> > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the > > forum is > > > > divided on> > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > method. > > I > > > > just wanted> > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members..> > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > recent book> > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > 55,examples > > > > have been> > > > > > given by the author of this article...*> > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > remove all> > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > > > opinion.It has been> > > > > >> > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the > > time > > > > of> > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > BTRT that I> > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > the > > > > planetary and> > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > for> > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from > the > > exact > > > > TOB...> > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > Linda> > > > > > Goodman's book :*> > > > > > "*A woman can conceive only > > > > during> > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when > the > > SUN > > > > and the MOON> > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the > TOB > > of > > > > the* *Female> > > > > > in question*... "> > > > > > With best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > L.Y.Rao.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the > > accuracy > > > > of this> > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the > > file > > > > section.> > > > > >> > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > and > > some > > > > other senior> > > > > > members don't believe this method.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> Respected seniors,> > > > > >>> > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART > > who born > > > > in a> > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND > > SUB. But> > > > > >>> > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > activities.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY > > DIFFERENT > > > > AND> > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD > > AND SUB > > > > LORD> > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, > for > > a > > > > given> > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > 1,1966,lagna > > > > tarus,time> > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time > > 7.42 to > > > > 8.59)> > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > here it> > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun > > sub is > > > > coming> > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we> > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > moon> > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there > is > > much > > > > time> > > > > >> gap.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > > > > >> pl.advice> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> > > > om/address>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > one > > roof. 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Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Dear All, Yogi ji Karve is well known world wide as the gifted person who can tell the TOB outright. Regards, tw , " Punit Pandey " <punitp wrote: > > Dear Sagar ji, > > Are you talking about BRT using RP or something else? In case it is > something else, would appreciate if you can share that method. > > Thanks & Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Sagar S <ssagar86 wrote: > > > BTR truely a very simple method and i have experimented in many cases > > with or without birth details. > > SS > > > > --- On *Tue, 19/8/08, swami <swami* wrote: > > > > swami <swami > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB > > > > Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 2:45 PM > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > Hari Om, > > Dear sir, > > " as`shown in the KP reader III?.This is not understood? > > I would like to make an attempt? > > with regards. > > OM TATSAT > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > Swami_RCS > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has > > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- ------- -- > > > > - > > ** tw853 <tw853 > > *To:* @gro ups.com > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM > > *Subject:* Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB > > > > Dear All, > > > > Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the > > close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III? > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > tw > > @gro ups.com , Luther > > Rath <rathluther@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient > > clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we > > use KP System. > > > Thank you again. > > > Dr. Luther > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > swami <swami@> > > > @gro ups.com <%40> > > > Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > Hari Om, > > > Dear Dr Luther, > > > I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to > > Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict > > her future.By then HE was already recognized " inventor and exponent > > of application of SUB theory " . > > > Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified > > by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and > > rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification > > barring a few that are predictions or related to KP. > > > Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They > > may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any > > data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not > > share. > > > No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate > > Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful. > > > Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left > > around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by > > Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must > > have been working on correct data rather then supplied data. > > > Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my > > consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their > > astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working. > > > Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have > > great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them. > > > I hope I have clarified the point raised. > > > with regards. > > > OM TATSAT > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being > > who has > > > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---- > > ----- -- > > > > > > - > > > Luther Rath > > > @gro ups.com > > > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > > > Dear Sirs, > > > After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira > > Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > > > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have > > predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule > > out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to > > justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though > > they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not > > needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers > > examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not > > giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage > > of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time? > > > Are we wrong running after BTR? > > > Are we going beyond necessity? > > > Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number, > > with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity > > of BTR? > > > May I have the clerifications on the above points please? > > > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 <tw853 > > > > @gro ups.com > > > Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM > > > Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > > > > > > Dear Swami ji, > > > > > > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. > > They > > > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat- > > Sat > > > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > > > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > > > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two > > > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the > > 8th > > > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the > > Tagore's > > > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > > > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > > > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > > > changing the TOB. > > > > > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the > > rectified > > > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > > > Indra's " 50 " major events in her " KP's Astrology & Prime > > Ministers " > > > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the > > historical > > > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc > > seems > > > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > > > George W Bush. > > > > > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and > > AA, > > > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank. > > > > > > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the > > post > > > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > tw > > > > > > From Msg#6579 > > > > > > I--INDIRA GANDHI > > > > > > TOBs > > > > > > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay > > > Gupte > > > > > > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344 > > > > > > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, " Predicting with Dasamsa " , > > > Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87 > > > > > > (4) 11:10 PM IST > > > http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp > > > > > > (5) 11:11 PM IST > > > (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106 > > > (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95 > > > © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy, > > > http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm > > > (d) • SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts > > > Ver 2.0 > > > (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > > Astrology, p 112 > > > (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256 > > > (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50 > > > (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml > > > (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm > > > (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory > > > (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, " 41 Ghatis 52 Phals > > > and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST " > > > > > > (6) 11:15 PM > > > (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career, > > > p 94; > > > (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa > > > and Transit, p 10 > > > > > > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p > > > 365 > > > > > > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine > > > > > > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & > > PRIME > > > MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95 > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > > Hari Om, > > > > Dear TW ji > > > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > > > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart. > > > > Is astrology a science of justification? > > > > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission . > > > > Any views? > > > > OM TATSAT > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- - > > > > Swami_RCS > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- > > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > > Being > > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- - - > > > - > > > > > > > > - > > > > tw853 > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Swami ji, > > > > > > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR. > > > > > > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too > > > far > > > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable. > > > > > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > > > Hari Om, > > > > > Dear TWji, > > > > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I > > > did > > > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > > > rectifcation > > > > is undertaken before chart reading. > > > > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then > > > > chart should be casted,How many follow it? > > > > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > > > check > > > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods. > > > > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where > > > he > > > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > > > life.( > > > > ref A & A July 1971) > > > > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi. > > > > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > > > Birth > > > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > > > Prenatal epoch theory) > > > > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the > > > BT is > > > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S. > > > > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment. > > > > > with regards > > > > > OM TATSAT > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ --- > > > > > Swami_RCS > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ -- > > > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > > > Being > > > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > > > understanding. " > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ --- > > - > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tw853 > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that > > > > Guruji KSK " first " BTRed and only after that made the chart > > > > analysis?. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III > > > or > > > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > > > says, " I > > > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you > > > can > > > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to > > > the > > > > research scholars. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct > > > time > > > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be > > > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > > > who is > > > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > > > correct > > > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in > > > the > > > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his > > > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > > > Mother a > > > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > > > stage > > > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > > > card > > > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates > > > the > > > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken > > > as > > > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to > > > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have > > > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > > > discussed > > > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > > > mentioned > > > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet > > > to > > > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of > > > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > > > (when > > > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > > > Dr.Satyaprakash > > > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > > > the > > > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > > > umbilical > > > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But > > > the > > > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in > > > such > > > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons > > > and > > > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking > > > any > > > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will > > > > come to your help. > > > > > > > > > > GOOD LUCK > > > > > > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " K. P. Naidu " <konathalan@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear sri Luther Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > > > importance > > > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is > > > based > > > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time > > > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > > > may be > > > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on " Birth Time is > > > > the time of new born's 1st breath "  Is the above Birth Time > > > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > > > breath ? > > > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > > > room > > > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > > > breath, > > > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > > > movement > > > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > > > 4th > > > > breath time. who knows except the God. > > > > > > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > > > the > > > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the > > > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME. > > > > > > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles > > > on > > > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do > > > not > > > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > > > said > > > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > > > the > > > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth > > > Time > > > > especially in KP system. > > > > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > > > prediction comes true > > > > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > > > theortical > > > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and > > > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality. > > > > > > , > > > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers > > > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > Naidu KP > > > > > > K. P. Naidu, > > > > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., > > > > > > Nowroji Road, > > > > > > Maharanipeta, > > > > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. > > > > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote: > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther@ > > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > > > This is only an example. > > > > > > Supposing : - > > > > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    > > > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > > >  > > > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub > > > > > > Because: - > > > > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00 > > > > > >            Ascendant falls at       26- 42- > > > > 07 > > > > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and > > > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > > > watch of > > > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body > > > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few > > > seconds. > > > > Hope one and all agree to it. > > > > > >  > > > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun > > > sub- > > > > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac. > > > > > >  > > > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds. > > > > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 > > > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > > > Ascendant > > > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change > > > the > > > > sub-sub from sun to Moon. > > > > > > That means: - > > > > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun. > > > > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon. > > > > > >  > > > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant. > > > > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to > > > be > > > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give > > > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should > > > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub? > > > > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of > > > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, > > > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant- > > > epoch > > > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub- > > > sub? > > > > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in > > > one > > > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these > > > are > > > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > > > the > > > > junctures. > > > > > >  > > > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther > > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM > > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share > > > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same. > > > > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to > > > > the division of sign, star and subs. > > > > > >  > > > > > > 7th August 2008 > > > > > >  > > > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27- > > > > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu > > > > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42- 07 > > > > Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59- 19 > > > > Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo. > > > > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara > > > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > > > system. > > > > So also the sub-sub. > > > > > >  > > > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > > > follows: - > > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > > > 40.0 Mins > > > > > > Kethu                            > > >  > > > >          46.7 Mins > > > > > > Mars                            > > >  > > > >          46.7 Mins > > > > > > Moon                             > > >  > > > >         66.7 Mins > > > > > > Jupiter                           > > > >        106.7 Mins > > > > > > Mercury                           > > > >     113.3 Mins > > > > > > Rahu                            > > >  > > > >        120.0 Mins > > > > > > Saturn                           > > >  > > > >       126.7 Mins > > > > > > Venus                            > > > >        133.3 Mins > > > > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs. > > > > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: - > > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > > > 2.000 Mins > > > > > > Kethu                            > > >  > > > >          2.333 Mins > > > > > > Mars                            > > >  > > > >           2.333 Mins > > > > > > Moon                             > > >  > > > >         3.333 Mins > > > > > > Jupiter                           > > > >          5.333 Mins > > > > > > Mercury                           > > > >       5.667 Mins > > > > > > Rahu                            > > >  > > > >          6.000 Mins > > > > > > Saturn                           > > >  > > > >         6.333 Mins > > > > > > Venus                            > > > >          6.667 Mins > > > > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign. > > > > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone. > > > > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time. > > > > > >  > > > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc. > > > > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = > > > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc. > > > > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or > > > 60 > > > > seconds. > > > > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > > > seconds. > > > > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac. > > > > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be > > > > as follows: - > > > > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs > > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs > > > > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs > > > > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs > > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs > > > > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs > > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs > > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs > > > > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs > > > > > >  > > > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st > > > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in > > > sub- > > > > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 > > > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after > > > 1 > > > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 > > > or > > > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > > > brings a > > > > lot of differences in the twins. > > > > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc. > > > > > >  > > > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs > > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs > > > > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs > > > > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs > > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs > > > > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs > > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs > > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs > > > > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs > > > > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, > > > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. > > > If > > > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must > > > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > > > aspects. > > > > > >  > > > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation > > > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon > > > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does. > > > > > >  > > > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas > > > > > > > @gro ups..com > > > > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI > > > > > > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in > > > a > > > > sub > > > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > > > apprx. 54 > > > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > > > apprx. 2 > > > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > > > lagna > > > > sub > > > > > > lord/sub sub lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > > > different > > > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > > > since > > > > moon > > > > > > stays long in a star/sub. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " punitp@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lajmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I > > > > believe > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > > > don't > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the > > > > forum is > > > > > > divided on > > > > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > > > method. > > > > I > > > > > > just wanted > > > > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit, > > > > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > > > recent book > > > > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :* > > > > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > > > 55,examples > > > > > > have been > > > > > > > > given by the author of this article...* > > > > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > > > remove all > > > > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > > > > > opinion.It has been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the > > > > time > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,* > > > > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > > > BTRT that I > > > > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW > > > > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > > > the > > > > > > planetary and > > > > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level... > > > > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from > > > the > > > > exact > > > > > > TOB... > > > > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > > > Linda > > > > > > > > Goodman's book :* > > > > > > > > " *A woman can conceive only > > > > > > during > > > > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when > > > the > > > > SUN > > > > > > and the MOON > > > > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the > > > TOB > > > > of > > > > > > the* *Female > > > > > > > > in question*... " > > > > > > > > With best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > L.Y.Rao. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@ > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM > > > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the > > > > accuracy > > > > > > of this > > > > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the > > > > file > > > > > > section. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > > > and > > > > some > > > > > > other senior > > > > > > > > members don't believe this method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > > > com<tranquas@ ...> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Respected seniors, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART > > > > who born > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND > > > > SUB. But > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > > > activities. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY > > > > DIFFERENT > > > > > > AND > > > > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD > > > > AND SUB > > > > > > LORD > > > > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, > > > for > > > > a > > > > > > given > > > > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > > > 1,1966,lagna > > > > > > tarus,time > > > > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time > > > > 7.42 to > > > > > > 8.59) > > > > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > > > here it > > > > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun > > > > sub is > > > > > > coming > > > > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> If we > > > > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > > > moon > > > > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there > > > is > > > > much > > > > > > time > > > > > > > >> gap. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK > > > > > > > >> pl.advice > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > > > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c > > > > > > om/address> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > > > one > > > > roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Be the first one to try the new Messenger 9 Beta! Click here.<http://in.rd./tagline_messenger_7/*http://in.messenger ../win/> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 || Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah Hari Om, Dear TW ji, It is long back I read KP readers and just now i failed to locate chart of Prof KSK therein.. But I am aware of an article written by Mr M.G.Gopalan Nayar " The horoscope of Prof KSK" It was published in Jan 1980 issue of A & A. It is running in about 15 pages and has Birth data " Born at Thiruvaiyaru( lat 10N48; Long 79E15) in keelaka Varsha of the jovian cycle of years on the 17 th of Tamil month of Aippasi( Malayalam month of Thulam) on sunday 1 Nov 1908 at 11 Hours 58 Minutes LMT ( abhijit Muhurta) in Sravana Nakahatra, Shukla paksha Astami visti Karan and sool yoga. Article statesTOB corresponds to 12 - 11PM IST or 6-41 AM GMT Cmplete chart with Ayanamsa 22-29 is also printed. He left for heavenly abode on 29/30 March at about 2 AM . Auther of article has quoted Source as family of Prof KSK himslf.( His sons) I thought of sharing information to friends on list. with regards, OM TATSAT------------------------Swami_RCS -----------------------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who hascreated the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."-- - tw853 Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:34 PM Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Dear All,Yogi ji Karve is well known world wide as the gifted person who can tell the TOB outright.Regards,tw , "Punit Pandey" <punitp wrote:>> Dear Sagar ji,> > Are you talking about BRT using RP or something else? In case it is> something else, would appreciate if you can share that method.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Sagar S <ssagar86 wrote:> > > BTR truely a very simple method and i have experimented in many cases> > with or without birth details.> > SS> >> > --- On *Tue, 19/8/08, swami <swami* wrote:> >> > swami <swami> > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB> > > > Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 2:45 PM> >> >> > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > Hari Om,> > Dear sir,> > " as`shown in the KP reader III?.This is not understood?> > I would like to make an attempt?> > with regards.> > OM TATSAT> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > Swami_RCS> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has> > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> >> > -> > ** tw853 <tw853> > *To:* @gro ups.com > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM> > *Subject:* Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB> >> > Dear All,> >> > Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the> > close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III?> >> > Thanks and regards,> >> > tw> > @gro ups.com , Luther> > Rath <rathluther@ ...>> > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sir,> > > Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient> > clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we> > use KP System.> > > Thank you again.> > > Dr. Luther> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > swami <swami@>> > > @gro ups.com <%40>> > > Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM> > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > >> > >> > >> > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > Hari Om,> > > Dear Dr Luther,> > > I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to> > Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict> > her future.By then HE was already recognized "inventor and exponent> > of application of SUB theory".> > > Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified> > by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and> > rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification> > barring a few that are predictions or related to KP.> > > Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They> > may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any> > data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not> > share.> > > No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate> > Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful.> > > Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left> > around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by> > Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must> > have been working on correct data rather then supplied data.> > > Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my> > consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their> > astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working.> > > Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have> > great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them.> > > I hope I have clarified the point raised.> > > with regards.> > > OM TATSAT> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > Swami_RCS> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being> > who has> > > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------------> > ----- --> > >> > > -> > > Luther Rath> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM> > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > >> > > Dear Sirs,> > > After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira> > Gandhi was born any time between 11 to> > > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have> > predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule> > out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to> > justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though> > they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not> > needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers> > examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not> > giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage> > of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time?> > > Are we wrong running after BTR?> > > Are we going beyond necessity?> > > Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number,> > with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity> > of BTR?> > > May I have the clerifications on the above points please?> > >> > > Dr. Luther> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > tw853 <tw853 >> > > @gro ups.com> > > Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM> > > Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > >> > >> > > Dear Swami ji,> > >> > > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR.> > They> > > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat-> > Sat> > > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's> > > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the> > > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two> > > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the> > 8th> > > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the> > Tagore's> > > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also> > > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they> > > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of> > > changing the TOB.> > >> > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the> > rectified> > > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the> > > Indra's "50" major events in her "KP's Astrology & Prime> > Ministers"> > > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the> > historical> > > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc> > seems> > > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and> > > George W Bush.> > >> > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and> > AA,> > > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank.> > >> > > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the> > post> > > mortem justification to learn and check the rules.> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > > tw> > >> > > From Msg#6579> > >> > > I--INDIRA GANDHI> > >> > > TOBs> > >> > > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay> > > Gupte> > >> > > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344> > >> > > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, "Predicting with Dasamsa",> > > Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87> > >> > > (4) 11:10 PM IST> > > http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp> > >> > > (5) 11:11 PM IST> > > (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106> > > (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95> > > © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy,> > > http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm> > > (d) • SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts> > > Ver 2.0> > > (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi> > > Astrology, p 112> > > (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256> > > (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50> > > (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml> > > (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm> > > (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory> > > (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, "41 Ghatis 52 Phals> > > and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST"> > >> > > (6) 11:15 PM> > > (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career,> > > p 94;> > > (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa> > > and Transit, p 10> > >> > > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p> > > 365> > >> > > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine> > >> > > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & > > PRIME> > > MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95> > >> > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > > Hari Om,> > > > Dear TW ji> > > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost> > > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart.> > > > Is astrology a science of justification?> > > > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission .> > > > Any views?> > > > OM TATSAT> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > > Swami_RCS> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine> > Being> > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > > -> > > >> > > > -> > > > tw853> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > >> > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR.> > > >> > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too> > > far> > > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable.> > > >> > > > Thanks and regards,> > > >> > > > tw> > > >> > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > > > Hari Om,> > > > > Dear TWji,> > > > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I> > > did> > > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in> > > rectifcation> > > > is undertaken before chart reading.> > > > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then> > > > chart should be casted,How many follow it?> > > > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct> > > check> > > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.> > > > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where> > > he> > > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her> > > life.(> > > > ref A & A July 1971)> > > > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.> > > > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified> > > Birth> > > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of> > > > Prenatal epoch theory)> > > > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for> > > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the> > > BT is> > > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.> > > > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.> > > > > with regards> > > > > OM TATSAT> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > > > Swami_RCS> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine> > > Being> > > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our> > > understanding. "> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > -> > > > -> > > > >> > > > > -> > > > > tw853> > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM> > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear All,> > > > >> > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that> > > > Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart> > > > analysis?.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > >> > > > > tw> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Food for Thought> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III> > > or> > > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji> > > says, "I> > > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you> > > can> > > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to> > > the> > > > research scholars."> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an> > > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct> > > time> > > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be> > > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor> > > who is> > > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the> > > correct> > > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in> > > the> > > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his> > > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the> > > Mother a> > > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that> > > stage> > > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical> > > card> > > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates> > > the> > > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken> > > as> > > > correct time of birth.> > > > >> > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to> > > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have> > > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been> > > discussed> > > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already> > > mentioned> > > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet> > > to> > > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of> > > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first> > > (when> > > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by> > > Dr.Satyaprakash> > > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of> > > the> > > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the> > > umbilical> > > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these> > > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and> > > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But> > > the> > > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in> > > such> > > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons> > > and> > > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking> > > any> > > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will> > > > come to your help.> > > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK> > > > >> > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@> > >> > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear sri Luther Ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the> > > importance> > > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is> > > based> > > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time> > > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it> > > may be> > > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > > > > >> > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is> > > > the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time> > > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st> > > breath ?> > > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor> > > room> > > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st> > > breath,> > > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st> > > movement> > > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or> > > 4th> > > > breath time. who knows except the God.> > > > > >> > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all> > > the> > > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the> > > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> > > > > >> > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles> > > on> > > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do> > > not> > > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I> > > said> > > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry,> > > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by> > > the> > > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth> > > Time> > > > especially in KP system.> > > > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the> > > > prediction comes true> > > > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on> > > theortical> > > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and> > > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> > > > > > ,> > > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers> > > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards.> > > > > >> > > > > > Naidu KP> > > > > > K. P. Naidu,> > > > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> > > > > > Nowroji Road,> > > > > > Maharanipeta,> > > > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> > > > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther@> > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In continuation to previous message: -> > > > > > This is only an example.> > > > > > Supposing : -> > > > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant   Â> > > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> > > > > > Because: -> > > > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00> > > > > >            Ascendant falls at       26-42-> > > > 07> > > > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and> > > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that> > > watch of> > > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body> > > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few> > > seconds.> > > > Hope one and all agree to it.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun> > > sub-> > > > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> > > > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2> > > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM> > > Ascendant> > > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change> > > the> > > > sub-sub from sun to Moon.> > > > > > That means: -> > > > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> > > > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> > > > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to> > > be> > > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give> > > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should> > > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> > > > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of> > > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation,> > > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-> > > epoch> > > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-> > > sub?> > > > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in> > > one> > > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these> > > are> > > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an> > > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at> > > the> > > > junctures.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Dr. Luther> > > > > > Â> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share> > > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> > > > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to> > > > the division of sign, star and subs.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > 7th August 2008> > > > > > Â> > > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-> > > > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> > > > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07Â> > > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19Â> > > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> > > > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara> > > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted> > > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari> > > system.> > > > So also the sub-sub.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as> > > > follows: -> > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                   Â> > > > 40.0 Mins> > > > > > Kethu                           Â> > > Â> > > >          46.7 Mins> > > > > > Mars                           Â> > > Â> > > >          46.7 Mins> > > > > > Moon                            Â> > > Â> > > >         66.7 Mins> > > > > > Jupiter                          Â> > > >        106.7 Mins> > > > > > Mercury                          Â> > > >     113.3 Mins> > > > > > Rahu                           Â> > > Â> > > >        120.0 Mins> > > > > > Saturn                          Â> > > Â> > > >       126.7 Mins> > > > > > Venus                           Â> > > >        133.3 Mins> > > > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3> > > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in> > > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> > > > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                   Â> > > > 2.000 Mins> > > > > > Kethu                           Â> > > Â> > > >          2.333 Mins> > > > > > Mars                           Â> > > Â> > > >           2.333 Mins> > > > > > Moon                            Â> > > Â> > > >         3.333 Mins> > > > > > Jupiter                          Â> > > >          5.333 Mins> > > > > > Mercury                          Â> > > >       5.667 Mins> > > > > > Rahu                           Â> > > Â> > > >          6.000 Mins> > > > > > Saturn                          Â> > > Â> > > >         6.333 Mins> > > > > > Venus                           Â> > > >          6.667 Mins> > > > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> > > > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> > > > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> > > > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             =Â> > > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> > > > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or> > > 60> > > > seconds.> > > > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15> > > seconds.> > > > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> > > > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be> > > > as follows: -> > > > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> > > > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> > > > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > > > Â> > > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st> > > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in> > > sub-> > > > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30> > > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after> > > 1> > > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2> > > or> > > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time> > > brings a> > > > lot of differences in the twins.> > > > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> > > > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> > > > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> > > > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun,> > > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change.> > > If> > > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must> > > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many> > > > aspects.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation> > > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon> > > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> > > > > > Â> > > > > > Dr. Luther> > > > > > Â> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> > > > > > @gro ups..com> > > > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > > > > >> > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in> > > a> > > > sub> > > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be> > > > apprx. 54> > > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > > > > >> > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of> > > > apprx. 2> > > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same> > > lagna> > > > sub> > > > > > lord/sub sub lord.> > > > > >> > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has> > > > different> > > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction> > > since> > > > moon> > > > > > stays long in a star/sub.> > > > > >> > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice> > > > > >> > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@> > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I> > > > believe> > > > > > that> > > > > > >> > > > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I> > > don't> > > > > > have any> > > > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the> > > > forum is> > > > > > divided on> > > > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct> > > method.> > > > I> > > > > > just wanted> > > > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members..> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi> > > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a> > > > > > recent book> > > > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 -> > > > 55,examples> > > > > > have been> > > > > > > > given by the author of this article...*> > > > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will> > > > > > remove all> > > > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble> > > > > > opinion.It has been> > > > > > > >> > > > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the> > > > time> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of> > > > > > BTRT that I> > > > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with> > > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with> > > the> > > > > > planetary and> > > > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > > > > > > The method I use is advocated> > > > > > for> > > > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from> > > the> > > > exact> > > > > > TOB...> > > > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from> > > > > > Linda> > > > > > > > Goodman's book :*> > > > > > > > "*A woman can conceive only> > > > > > during> > > > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when> > > the> > > > SUN> > > > > > and the MOON> > > > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the> > > TOB> > > > of> > > > > > the* *Female> > > > > > > > in question*... "> > > > > > > > With best wishes,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > L.Y.Rao.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the> > > > accuracy> > > > > > of this> > > > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the> > > > file> > > > > > section.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method> > > and> > > > some> > > > > > other senior> > > > > > > > members don't believe this method.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo> > > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo> > > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > > > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Respected seniors,> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART> > > > who born> > > > > > in a> > > > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND> > > > SUB. But> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all> > > > > > activities.> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY> > > > DIFFERENT> > > > > > AND> > > > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD> > > > AND SUB> > > > > > LORD> > > > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN,> > > for> > > > a> > > > > > given> > > > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may> > > 1,1966,lagna> > > > > > tarus,time> > > > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time> > > > 7.42 to> > > > > > 8.59)> > > > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am,> > > > 20.53@moon/ven,> > > > > > here it> > > > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun> > > > sub is> > > > > > coming> > > > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> If we> > > > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this> > > > > > moon> > > > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there> > > is> > > > much> > > > > > time> > > > > > > >> gap.> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > > > > > > >> pl.advice> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > > > > >> > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_> > > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> > > > > > om/address>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under> > > one> > > > roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> > ------------------------------> > Be the first one to try the new Messenger 9 Beta! <http://in.rd./tagline_messenger_7/*http://in.messenger./win/>> >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 || Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah Hari Om, Dear Sir, Are you referring chart on page 107 of Reader III, for date 1 Nov 1908 and case of penson on page 217. Lagna and moon degree are claerly given therein. lagna 11 degree and moon at 12 27 in reader in timing pension case. Incidently this is same horoscope only Moon is at 11 d 52 m intead of 12D 27M. I think Professor talked about delay of his own pension.However HE did not say so. OM TATSAT------------------------Swami_RCS -----------------------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who hascreated the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."-- - tw853 Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Dear All,Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III?Thanks and regards,tw , Luther Rath <rathluther wrote:>> Dear Sir,> Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we use KP System.> Thank you again.> Dr. Luther> > > > > swami <swami> > Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> Hari Om,> Dear Dr Luther,> I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict her future.By then HE was already recognized "inventor and exponent of application of SUB theory".> Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification barring a few that are predictions or related to KP.> Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not share.> No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful.> Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must have been working on correct data rather then supplied data.> Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working.> Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them.> I hope I have clarified the point raised.> with regards. > OM TATSAT> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> Swami_RCS > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has> created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > - > Luther Rath > @gro ups.com > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > Dear Sirs,> After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time?> Are we wrong running after BTR? > Are we going beyond necessity?> Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number, with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity of BTR?> May I have the clerifications on the above points please?> > Dr. Luther> > > > > tw853 <tw853 >> @gro ups.com> Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM> Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > Dear Swami ji,> > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. They > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat-Sat > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the 8th > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the Tagore's > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > changing the TOB. > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the rectified > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > Indra's "50" major events in her "KP's Astrology & Prime Ministers" > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the historical > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc seems > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > George W Bush. > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and AA, > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank.> > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the post > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > Regards,> > tw> > From Msg#6579> > I--INDIRA GANDHI> > TOBs> > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay> Gupte> > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344> > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, "Predicting with Dasamsa",> Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87> > (4) 11:10 PM IST> http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp> > (5) 11:11 PM IST> (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106> (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95> © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy,> http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm> (d) • SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts> Ver 2.0> (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi> Astrology, p 112> (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256> (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50> (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml> (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm> (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory> (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, "41 Ghatis 52 Phals> and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST"> > (6) 11:15 PM> (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career,> p 94;> (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa> and Transit, p 10> > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p> 365> > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine> > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & PRIME> MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95> > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> >> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > Hari Om,> > Dear TW ji > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart.> > Is astrology a science of justification?> > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission .> > Any views?> > OM TATSAT> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > Swami_RCS > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> -> > > > - > > tw853 > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR.> > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too > far > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable.> > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > tw> > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > Hari Om,> > > Dear TWji,> > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I > did > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > rectifcation > > is undertaken before chart reading.> > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then > > chart should be casted,How many follow it?> > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > check > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.> > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where > he > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > life.( > > ref A & A July 1971)> > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.> > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > Birth > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > Prenatal epoch theory)> > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the > BT is > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.> > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.> > > with regards> > > OM TATSAT> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > understanding. "> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ----------> > -> > > > > > - > > > tw853 > > > @gro ups.com > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that > > Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart > > analysis?. > > > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > > > tw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought> > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III > or > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > says, "I > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you > can > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to > the > > research scholars."> > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct > time > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > who is > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > correct > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in > the > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > Mother a > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > stage > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > card > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates > the > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken > as > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > discussed > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > mentioned > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet > to > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > (when > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > Dr.Satyaprakash > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > the > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > umbilical > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But > the > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in > such > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons > and > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking > any > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will > > come to your help.> > > > > > GOOD LUCK> > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@ > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear sri Luther Ji,> > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > importance > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is > based > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > may be > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is > > the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > breath ? > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > room > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > breath, > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > movement > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > 4th > > breath time. who knows except the God.> > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > the > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles > on > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do > not > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > said > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > the > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth > Time > > especially in KP system.> > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > prediction comes true> > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > theortical > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> > > > , > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > > > Naidu KP> > > > K. P. Naidu,> > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> > > > Nowroji Road,> > > > Maharanipeta,> > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:> > > > Luther Rath rathluther@> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > This is only an example. > > > > Supposing : -> > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> > > >  > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> > > > Because: -> > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00> > > >            Ascendant falls at       26-42-> > 07> > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > watch of > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few > seconds. > > Hope one and all agree to it.> > > >  > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun > sub-> > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.> > > >  > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > Ascendant > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change > the > > sub-sub from sun to Moon.> > > > That means: -> > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> > > >  > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to > be > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-> epoch > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-> sub?> > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in > one > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these > are > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > the > > junctures. > > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to > > the division of sign, star and subs.> > > >  > > > > 7th August 2008> > > >  > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-> > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > system. > > So also the sub-sub. > > > >  > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > follows: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 40.0 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >          46.7 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         66.7 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >        106.7 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >     113.3 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >        120.0 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >       126.7 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >        133.3 Mins> > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > 2.000 Mins> > > > Kethu                            >  > >          2.333 Mins> > > > Mars                            >  > >           2.333 Mins> > > > Moon                             >  > >         3.333 Mins> > > > Jupiter                           > >          5.333 Mins> > > > Mercury                           > >       5.667 Mins> > > > Rahu                            >  > >          6.000 Mins> > > > Saturn                           >  > >         6.333 Mins> > > > Venus                            > >          6.667 Mins> > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.> > > >  > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or > 60 > > seconds.> > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > seconds.> > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be > > as follows: -> > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > >  > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in > sub-> > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after > 1 > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 > or > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > brings a > > lot of differences in the twins.> > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.> > > >  > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. > If > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > aspects.> > > >  > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> > > >  > > > > Dr. Luther> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> > > > @gro ups..com> > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in > a > > sub > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > apprx. 54 > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > apprx. 2 > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > lagna > > sub > > > > lord/sub sub lord.> > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > different > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > since > > moon > > > > stays long in a star/sub.> > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I > > believe > > > > that> > > > >> > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > don't > > > > have any> > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the > > forum is > > > > divided on> > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > method. > > I > > > > just wanted> > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members..> > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > recent book> > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > 55,examples > > > > have been> > > > > > given by the author of this article...*> > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > remove all> > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > > > opinion.It has been> > > > > >> > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the > > time > > > > of> > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > BTRT that I> > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > the > > > > planetary and> > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > for> > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from > the > > exact > > > > TOB...> > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > Linda> > > > > > Goodman's book :*> > > > > > "*A woman can conceive only > > > > during> > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when > the > > SUN > > > > and the MOON> > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the > TOB > > of > > > > the* *Female> > > > > > in question*... "> > > > > > With best wishes,> > > > > >> > > > L.Y.Rao.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the > > accuracy > > > > of this> > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the > > file > > > > section.> > > > > >> > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > and > > some > > > > other senior> > > > > > members don't believe this method.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> Respected seniors,> > > > > >>> > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART > > who born > > > > in a> > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND > > SUB. But> > > > > >>> > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > activities.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY > > DIFFERENT > > > > AND> > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD > > AND SUB > > > > LORD> > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, > for > > a > > > > given> > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > 1,1966,lagna > > > > tarus,time> > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time > > 7.42 to > > > > 8.59)> > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > here it> > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun > > sub is > > > > coming> > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > > > > >>> > > > > >> If we> > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > moon> > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there > is > > much > > > > time> > > > > >> gap.> > > > > >>> > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > > > > >> pl.advice> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> > > > om/address>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > one > > roof. 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Guest guest Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Dear Swami ji, Pl see Msg#1544/8400/843 and page 60 of KP Year Book 2003. (the same rasi & navamsa charts in page 321 of the original KP Vol. 2 of 1966) Regards, tw , " swami " <swami wrote: > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah > Hari Om, > Dear TW ji, > It is long back I read KP readers and just now i failed to locate chart of Prof KSK therein.. > But I am aware of an article written by Mr M.G.Gopalan Nayar " The horoscope of Prof KSK " > It was published in Jan 1980 issue of A & A. > It is running in about 15 pages and has Birth data " Born at Thiruvaiyaru( lat 10N48; Long 79E15) in keelaka Varsha of the jovian cycle of years on the 17 th of Tamil month of Aippasi( Malayalam month of Thulam) on sunday 1 Nov 1908 at 11 Hours 58 Minutes LMT ( abhijit Muhurta) in Sravana Nakahatra, Shukla paksha Astami visti Karan and sool yoga. > Article statesTOB corresponds to 12 - 11PM IST or 6-41 AM GMT Cmplete chart with Ayanamsa 22-29 is also printed. > He left for heavenly abode on 29/30 March at about 2 AM . > Auther of article has quoted Source as family of Prof KSK himslf.( His sons) > I thought of sharing information to friends on list. > with regards, > OM TATSAT > ------------------------ > Swami_RCS > ----------------------- > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > - - > > - > tw853 > > Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:34 PM > Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB > > > Dear All, > > Yogi ji Karve is well known world wide as the gifted person who can > tell the TOB outright. > > Regards, > > tw > , " Punit Pandey " <punitp@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sagar ji, > > > > Are you talking about BRT using RP or something else? In case it is > > something else, would appreciate if you can share that method. > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Sagar S <ssagar86@> wrote: > > > > > BTR truely a very simple method and i have experimented in > many cases > > > with or without birth details. > > > SS > > > > > > --- On *Tue, 19/8/08, swami <swami@>* wrote: > > > > > > swami <swami@> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's > TOB > > > > > > Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 2:45 PM > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > Hari Om, > > > Dear sir, > > > " as`shown in the KP reader III?.This is not understood? > > > I would like to make an attempt? > > > with regards. > > > OM TATSAT > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- - > > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being who has > > > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------- - -- > ------- -- > > > > > > - > > > ** tw853 <tw853@> > > > *To:* @gro ups.com > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM > > > *Subject:* Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get > the > > > close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III? > > > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > > > tw > > > @gro ups.com , > Luther > > > Rath <rathluther@ ...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient > > > clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time > when we > > > use KP System. > > > > Thank you again. > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > swami <swami@> > > > > @gro ups.com <% 40> > > > > Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > > Hari Om, > > > > Dear Dr Luther, > > > > I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to > > > Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to > predict > > > her future.By then HE was already recognized " inventor and > exponent > > > of application of SUB theory " . > > > > Second observation should be seen, that any event can be > justified > > > by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and > > > rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification > > > barring a few that are predictions or related to KP. > > > > Traditional astrologers use various combination of > methods .They > > > may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on > any > > > data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not > > > share. > > > > No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need > accurate > > > Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful. > > > > Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK > left > > > around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification > by > > > Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He > must > > > have been working on correct data rather then supplied data. > > > > Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my > > > consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their > > > astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working. > > > > Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have > > > great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them. > > > > I hope I have clarified the point raised. > > > > with regards. > > > > OM TATSAT > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ --- > > > > Swami_RCS > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ -- > > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being > > > who has > > > > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. " > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ --- > ---- > > > ----- -- > > > > > > > > - > > > > Luther Rath > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > > > > > Dear Sirs, > > > > After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira > > > Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > > > > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers > have > > > predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule > > > out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to > > > justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right > though > > > they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not > > > needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers > > > examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not > > > giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the > adventage > > > of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time? > > > > Are we wrong running after BTR? > > > > Are we going beyond necessity? > > > > Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a > number, > > > with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the > necessity > > > of BTR? > > > > May I have the clerifications on the above points please? > > > > > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tw853 <tw853 > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM > > > > Re: BTR CONFSUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Swami ji, > > > > > > > > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. > > > They > > > > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during > Sat- > > > Sat > > > > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > > > > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > > > > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and > two > > > > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on > the > > > 8th > > > > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the > > > Tagore's > > > > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > > > > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > > > > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > > > > changing the TOB. > > > > > > > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the > > > rectified > > > > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > > > > Indra's " 50 " major events in her " KP's Astrology & Prime > > > Ministers " > > > > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the > > > historical > > > > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc > > > seems > > > > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > > > > George W Bush. > > > > > > > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and > > > AA, > > > > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the > AstroDatabank. > > > > > > > > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the > > > post > > > > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > From Msg#6579 > > > > > > > > I--INDIRA GANDHI > > > > > > > > TOBs > > > > > > > > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) > Pranay > > > > Gupte > > > > > > > > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & > 344 > > > > > > > > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, " Predicting with Dasamsa " , > > > > Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87 > > > > > > > > (4) 11:10 PM IST > > > > http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp > > > > > > > > (5) 11:11 PM IST > > > > (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106 > > > > (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95 > > > > © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy, > > > > http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. > htm > > > > (d) . SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts > > > > Ver 2.0 > > > > (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > > > Astrology, p 112 > > > > (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256 > > > > (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50 > > > > (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml > > > > (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm > > > > (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory > > > > (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, " 41 Ghatis 52 > Phals > > > > and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST " > > > > > > > > (6) 11:15 PM > > > > (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in > Career, > > > > p 94; > > > > (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through > Dasa > > > > and Transit, p 10 > > > > > > > > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on > Life, p > > > > 365 > > > > > > > > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine > > > > > > > > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & > > > PRIME > > > > MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95 > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > > > Hari Om, > > > > > Dear TW ji > > > > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > > > > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart. > > > > > Is astrology a science of justification? > > > > > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission . > > > > > Any views? > > > > > OM TATSAT > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---- ---- > - > > > > > Swami_RCS > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---- ---- > > > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > > > Being > > > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > understanding. " > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---- ---- > - - > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tw853 > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Swami ji, > > > > > > > > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR. > > > > > > > > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is > too > > > > far > > > > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be > accepatable. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah > > > > > > Hari Om, > > > > > > Dear TWji, > > > > > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol > i.I > > > > did > > > > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > > > > rectifcation > > > > > is undertaken before chart reading. > > > > > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and > then > > > > > chart should be casted,How many follow it? > > > > > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > > > > check > > > > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods. > > > > > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi > where > > > > he > > > > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > > > > life.( > > > > > ref A & A July 1971) > > > > > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at > Delhi. > > > > > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > > > > Birth > > > > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > > > > Prenatal epoch theory) > > > > > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > > > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 > the > > > > BT is > > > > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S. > > > > > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the > moment. > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > OM TATSAT > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -- ---- > --- > > > > > > Swami_RCS > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -- ---- > -- > > > > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > > > > Being > > > > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > > > > understanding. " > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -- ---- > --- > > > - > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > tw853 > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples > that > > > > > Guruji KSK " first " BTRed and only after that made the chart > > > > > analysis?. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > tw > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader > III > > > > or > > > > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > > > > says, " I > > > > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far > you > > > > can > > > > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar > and to > > > > the > > > > > research scholars. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > > > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a > correct > > > > time > > > > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria > to be > > > > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > > > > who is > > > > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > > > > correct > > > > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself > present in > > > > the > > > > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in > his > > > > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > > > > Mother a > > > > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > > > > stage > > > > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > > > > card > > > > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise > indicates > > > > the > > > > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be > taken > > > > as > > > > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention > to > > > > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I > have > > > > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > > > > discussed > > > > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > > > > mentioned > > > > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are > yet > > > > to > > > > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time > of > > > > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > > > > (when > > > > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > > > > Dr.Satyaprakash > > > > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > > > > the > > > > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > > > > umbilical > > > > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > > > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > > > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. > But > > > > the > > > > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are > in > > > > such > > > > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen > reasons > > > > and > > > > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before > taking > > > > any > > > > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He > will > > > > > come to your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > GOOD LUCK > > > > > > > > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " K. P. Naidu " > <konathalan@ > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear sri Luther Ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > > > > importance > > > > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which > is > > > > based > > > > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth > Time > > > > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > > > > may be > > > > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on " Birth > Time is > > > > > the time of new born's 1st breath "  Is the above Birth Time > > > > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > > > > breath ? > > > > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > > > > room > > > > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > > > > breath, > > > > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > > > > movement > > > > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > > > > 4th > > > > > breath time. who knows except the God. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > > > > the > > > > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is > the > > > > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the > articles > > > > on > > > > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times > do > > > > not > > > > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > > > > said > > > > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > > > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > > > > the > > > > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact > Birth > > > > Time > > > > > especially in KP system. > > > > > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > > > > prediction comes true > > > > > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > > > > theortical > > > > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely > and > > > > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality. > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP > astrologers > > > > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Naidu KP > > > > > > > K. P. Naidu, > > > > > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., > > > > > > > Nowroji Road, > > > > > > > Maharanipeta, > > > > > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. > > > > > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote: > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther@ > > > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > > > > This is only an example. > > > > > > > Supposing : - > > > > > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant  >   > > > > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub > > > > > > > Because: - > > > > > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40- 00 > > > > > > >            Ascendant falls at       26- > 42- > > > > > 07 > > > > > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07- 00 AM > and > > > > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > > > > watch of > > > > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some > body > > > > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-) few > > > > seconds. > > > > > Hope one and all agree to it. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to > Sun > > > > sub- > > > > > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 > seconds. > > > > > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or > 2 > > > > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > > > > Ascendant > > > > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could > change > > > > the > > > > > sub-sub from sun to Moon. > > > > > > > That means: - > > > > > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun. > > > > > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant. > > > > > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time > to > > > > be > > > > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we > give > > > > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one > should > > > > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub? > > > > > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the > sub of > > > > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon > relation, > > > > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant- > > > > epoch > > > > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the > sub- > > > > sub? > > > > > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with > in > > > > one > > > > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation > these > > > > are > > > > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > > > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > > > > the > > > > > junctures. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM > > > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to > share > > > > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same. > > > > > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in > to > > > > > the division of sign, star and subs. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > 7th August 2008 > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27- > > > > > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu > > > > > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26- 42- > 07 > > > > > Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26- 59- > 19 > > > > > Sun-Sun-Sun > > > > > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does > Leo. > > > > > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also > Uttara > > > > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > > > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > > > > system. > > > > > So also the sub-sub. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > > > > follows: - > > > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > > > > 40.0 Mins > > > > > > > Kethu                          >   > > > >  > > > > >          46.7 Mins > > > > > > > Mars                          >   > > > >  > > > > >          46.7 Mins > > > > > > > Moon                           >   > > > >  > > > > >         66.7 Mins > > > > > > > Jupiter                         >   > > > > >        106.7 Mins > > > > > > > Mercury                         >   > > > > >     113.3 Mins > > > > > > > Rahu                          >   > > > >  > > > > >        120.0 Mins > > > > > > > Saturn                         >   > > > >  > > > > >       126.7 Mins > > > > > > > Venus                          >   > > > > >        133.3 Mins > > > > > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > > > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > > > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs. > > > > > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: - > > > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > > > > 2.000 Mins > > > > > > > Kethu                          >   > > > >  > > > > >          2.333 Mins > > > > > > > Mars                          >   > > > >  > > > > >           2.333 Mins > > > > > > > Moon                           >   > > > >  > > > > >         3.333 Mins > > > > > > > Jupiter                         >   > > > > >          5.333 Mins > > > > > > > Mercury                         >   > > > > >       5.667 Mins > > > > > > > Rahu                          >   > > > >  > > > > >          6.000 Mins > > > > > > > Saturn                         >   > > > >  > > > > >         6.333 Mins > > > > > > > Venus                          >   > > > > >          6.667 Mins > > > > > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a > sign. > > > > > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal > zone. > > > > > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of > arc. > > > > > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             > = > > > > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc. > > > > > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute > or > > > > 60 > > > > > seconds. > > > > > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > > > > seconds. > > > > > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in > zodiac. > > > > > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub > will be > > > > > as follows: - > > > > > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs > > > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs > > > > > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs > > > > > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs > > > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs > > > > > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs > > > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs > > > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs > > > > > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the > 1st > > > > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and > in > > > > sub- > > > > > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only > after 30 > > > > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born > after > > > > 1 > > > > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it > bypasses 2 > > > > or > > > > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > > > > brings a > > > > > lot of differences in the twins. > > > > > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of > arc. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min- 40 > secs > > > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs > > > > > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs > > > > > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs > > > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs > > > > > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs > > > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs > > > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs > > > > > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs > > > > > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in > Sun, > > > > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will > change. > > > > If > > > > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub- sub > must > > > > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > > > > aspects. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This > variation > > > > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of > Moon > > > > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Dr. Luther > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas > > > > > > > > @gro ups..com > > > > > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM > > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs > and in > > > > a > > > > > sub > > > > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > > > > apprx. 54 > > > > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > > > > apprx. 2 > > > > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > > > > lagna > > > > > sub > > > > > > > lord/sub sub lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > > > > different > > > > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > > > > since > > > > > moon > > > > > > > stays long in a star/sub. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " > punitp@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lajmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection > method. I > > > > > believe > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > > > > don't > > > > > > > have any > > > > > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that > the > > > > > forum is > > > > > > > divided on > > > > > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > > > > method. > > > > > I > > > > > > > just wanted > > > > > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new > members.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit, > > > > > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > > > > recent book > > > > > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :* > > > > > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > > > > 55,examples > > > > > > > have been > > > > > > > > > given by the author of this article...* > > > > > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > > > > remove all > > > > > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my > humble > > > > > > > opinion.It has been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at > the > > > > > time > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,* > > > > > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > > > > BTRT that I > > > > > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW > > > > > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > > > > the > > > > > > > planetary and > > > > > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level... > > > > > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away > from > > > > the > > > > > exact > > > > > > > TOB... > > > > > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > > > > Linda > > > > > > > > > Goodman's book :* > > > > > > > > > " *A woman can conceive only > > > > > > > during > > > > > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar > Month,when > > > > the > > > > > SUN > > > > > > > and the MOON > > > > > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at > the > > > > TOB > > > > > of > > > > > > > the* *Female > > > > > > > > > in question*... " > > > > > > > > > With best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > L.Y.Rao. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@ > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on > the > > > > > accuracy > > > > > > > of this > > > > > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and > the > > > > > file > > > > > > > section. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > > > > and > > > > > some > > > > > > > other senior > > > > > > > > > members don't believe this method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas > tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > > > > com<tranquas@ ...> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Respected seniors, > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH > CHART > > > > > who born > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR > AND > > > > > SUB. But > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > > > > activities. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS > TOTALLY > > > > > DIFFERENT > > > > > > > AND > > > > > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR > LORD > > > > > AND SUB > > > > > > > LORD > > > > > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord > SUN, > > > > for > > > > > a > > > > > > > given > > > > > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > > > > 1,1966,lagna > > > > > > > tarus,time > > > > > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, > time > > > > > 7.42 to > > > > > > > 8.59) > > > > > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > > > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > > > > here it > > > > > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since > sun > > > > > sub is > > > > > > > coming > > > > > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> If we > > > > > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > > > > moon > > > > > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though > there > > > > is > > > > > much > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > >> gap. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK > > > > > > > > >> pl.advice > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > > > > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > > > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c > > > > > > > om/address> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > > > > one > > > > > roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Be the first one to try the new Messenger 9 Beta! Click > here.<http://in.rd./tagline_messenger_7/*http://in.messenger > ./win/> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 || Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah Hari Om, Dear sir, Thanks , I visited Msg 1544 and 8400, I do not have access to Year book 2003. Would love to read Chart with Time line presented.I am grateful for references. OM TATSAT------------------------Swami_RCS -----------------------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."-- - tw853 Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:03 AM Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB Dear Swami ji,Pl see Msg#1544/8400/843 and page 60 of KP Year Book 2003.(the same rasi & navamsa charts in page 321 of the original KP Vol. 2 of 1966)Regards,tw , "swami" <swami wrote:>> > || Om Gurave Namah ||> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah> Hari Om,> Dear TW ji,> It is long back I read KP readers and just now i failed to locate chart of Prof KSK therein..> But I am aware of an article written by Mr M.G.Gopalan Nayar " The horoscope of Prof KSK" > It was published in Jan 1980 issue of A & A.> It is running in about 15 pages and has Birth data " Born at Thiruvaiyaru( lat 10N48; Long 79E15) in keelaka Varsha of the jovian cycle of years on the 17 th of Tamil month of Aippasi( Malayalam month of Thulam) on sunday 1 Nov 1908 at 11 Hours 58 Minutes LMT ( abhijit Muhurta) in Sravana Nakahatra, Shukla paksha Astami visti Karan and sool yoga.> Article statesTOB corresponds to 12 - 11PM IST or 6-41 AM GMT Cmplete chart with Ayanamsa 22-29 is also printed.> He left for heavenly abode on 29/30 March at about 2 AM .> Auther of article has quoted Source as family of Prof KSK himslf.( His sons)> I thought of sharing information to friends on list.> with regards,> OM TATSAT> ------------------------> Swami_RCS > -----------------------> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has> created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."> --------------------------> > - > tw853 > > Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:34 PM> Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB> > > Dear All,> > Yogi ji Karve is well known world wide as the gifted person who can > tell the TOB outright.> > Regards,> > tw> , "Punit Pandey" <punitp@> wrote:> >> > Dear Sagar ji,> > > > Are you talking about BRT using RP or something else? In case it is> > something else, would appreciate if you can share that method.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Sagar S <ssagar86@> wrote:> > > > > BTR truely a very simple method and i have experimented in > many cases> > > with or without birth details.> > > SS> > >> > > --- On *Tue, 19/8/08, swami <swami@>* wrote:> > >> > > swami <swami@>> > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's > TOB> > > > > > Tuesday, 19 August, 2008, 2:45 PM> > >> > >> > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > Hari Om,> > > Dear sir,> > > " as`shown in the KP reader III?.This is not understood?> > > I would like to make an attempt?> > > with regards.> > > OM TATSAT> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > Swami_RCS> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being who has> > > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> ------- --> > >> > > -> > > ** tw853 <tw853@>> > > *To:* @gro ups.com > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM> > > *Subject:* Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB> > >> > > Dear All,> > >> > > Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get > the> > > close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III?> > >> > > Thanks and regards,> > >> > > tw> > > @gro ups.com , > Luther> > > Rath <rathluther@ ...>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Sir,> > > > Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient> > > clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time > when we> > > use KP System.> > > > Thank you again.> > > > Dr. Luther> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > swami <swami@>> > > > @gro ups.com <%40>> > > > Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > > Hari Om,> > > > Dear Dr Luther,> > > > I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to> > > Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to > predict> > > her future.By then HE was already recognized "inventor and > exponent> > > of application of SUB theory".> > > > Second observation should be seen, that any event can be > justified> > > by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and> > > rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification> > > barring a few that are predictions or related to KP.> > > > Traditional astrologers use various combination of > methods .They> > > may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on > any> > > data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not> > > share.> > > > No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need > accurate> > > Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful.> > > > Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK > left> > > around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification > by> > > Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He > must> > > have been working on correct data rather then supplied data.> > > > Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my> > > consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their> > > astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working.> > > > Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have> > > great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them.> > > > I hope I have clarified the point raised.> > > > with regards.> > > > OM TATSAT> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > > Swami_RCS> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being> > > who has> > > > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> ----> > > ----- --> > > >> > > > -> > > > Luther Rath> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > >> > > > Dear Sirs,> > > > After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira> > > Gandhi was born any time between 11 to> > > > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers > have> > > predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule> > > out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to> > > justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right > though> > > they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not> > > needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers> > > examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not> > > giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the > adventage> > > of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time?> > > > Are we wrong running after BTR?> > > > Are we going beyond necessity?> > > > Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a > number,> > > with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the > necessity> > > of BTR?> > > > May I have the clerifications on the above points please?> > > >> > > > Dr. Luther> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > tw853 <tw853 >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM> > > > Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > >> > > > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR.> > > They> > > > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during > Sat-> > > Sat> > > > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's> > > > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the> > > > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and > two> > > > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on > the> > > 8th> > > > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the> > > Tagore's> > > > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also> > > > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they> > > > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of> > > > changing the TOB.> > > >> > > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the> > > rectified> > > > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the> > > > Indra's "50" major events in her "KP's Astrology & Prime> > > Ministers"> > > > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the> > > historical> > > > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc> > > seems> > > > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and> > > > George W Bush.> > > >> > > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and> > > AA,> > > > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the > AstroDatabank.> > > >> > > > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the> > > post> > > > mortem justification to learn and check the rules.> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > tw> > > >> > > > From Msg#6579> > > >> > > > I--INDIRA GANDHI> > > >> > > > TOBs> > > >> > > > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) > Pranay> > > > Gupte> > > >> > > > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & > 344> > > >> > > > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, "Predicting with Dasamsa",> > > > Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87> > > >> > > > (4) 11:10 PM IST> > > > http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp> > > >> > > > (5) 11:11 PM IST> > > > (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106> > > > (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95> > > > © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy,> > > > http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. > htm> > > > (d) . SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts> > > > Ver 2.0> > > > (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi> > > > Astrology, p 112> > > > (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256> > > > (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50> > > > (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml> > > > (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm> > > > (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory> > > > (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, "41 Ghatis 52 > Phals> > > > and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST"> > > >> > > > (6) 11:15 PM> > > > (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in > Career,> > > > p 94;> > > > (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through > Dasa> > > > and Transit, p 10> > > >> > > > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on > Life, p> > > > 365> > > >> > > > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine> > > >> > > > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & > > > PRIME> > > > MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95> > > >> > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > > > Hari Om,> > > > > Dear TW ji> > > > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost> > > > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart.> > > > > Is astrology a science of justification?> > > > > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission .> > > > > Any views?> > > > > OM TATSAT> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> -> > > > > Swami_RCS> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine> > > Being> > > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > understanding. "> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> - -> > > > -> > > > >> > > > > -> > > > > tw853> > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM> > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > > >> > > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR.> > > > >> > > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is > too> > > > far> > > > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be > accepatable.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > >> > > > > tw> > > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > > > > Hari Om,> > > > > > Dear TWji,> > > > > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol > i.I> > > > did> > > > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in> > > > rectifcation> > > > > is undertaken before chart reading.> > > > > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and > then> > > > > chart should be casted,How many follow it?> > > > > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct> > > > check> > > > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.> > > > > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi > where> > > > he> > > > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her> > > > life.(> > > > > ref A & A July 1971)> > > > > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at > Delhi.> > > > > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified> > > > Birth> > > > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of> > > > > Prenatal epoch theory)> > > > > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for> > > > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 > the> > > > BT is> > > > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.> > > > > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the > moment.> > > > > > with regards> > > > > > OM TATSAT> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------> ---> > > > > > Swami_RCS> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------> --> > > > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine> > > > Being> > > > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our> > > > understanding. "> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------> ---> > > -> > > > > -> > > > > >> > > > > > -> > > > > > tw853> > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM> > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > >> > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples > that> > > > > Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart> > > > > analysis?.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > tw> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Food for Thought> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader > III> > > > or> > > > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji> > > > says, "I> > > > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far > you> > > > can> > > > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar > and to> > > > the> > > > > research scholars."> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an> > > > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a > correct> > > > time> > > > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria > to be> > > > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor> > > > who is> > > > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the> > > > correct> > > > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself > present in> > > > the> > > > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in > his> > > > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the> > > > Mother a> > > > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that> > > > stage> > > > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical> > > > card> > > > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise > indicates> > > > the> > > > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be > taken> > > > as> > > > > correct time of birth.> > > > > >> > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention > to> > > > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I > have> > > > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been> > > > discussed> > > > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already> > > > mentioned> > > > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are > yet> > > > to> > > > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time > of> > > > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first> > > > (when> > > > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by> > > > Dr.Satyaprakash> > > > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of> > > > the> > > > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the> > > > umbilical> > > > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these> > > > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and> > > > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. > But> > > > the> > > > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are > in> > > > such> > > > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen > reasons> > > > and> > > > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before > taking> > > > any> > > > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He > will> > > > > come to your help.> > > > > >> > > > > > GOOD LUCK> > > > > >> > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > @gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" > <konathalan@> > > >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear sri Luther Ji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the> > > > importance> > > > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which > is> > > > based> > > > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth > Time> > > > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it> > > > may be> > > > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth > Time is> > > > > the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time> > > > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st> > > > breath ?> > > > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor> > > > room> > > > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st> > > > breath,> > > > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st> > > > movement> > > > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or> > > > 4th> > > > > breath time. who knows except the God.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all> > > > the> > > > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is > the> > > > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the > articles> > > > on> > > > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times > do> > > > not> > > > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I> > > > said> > > > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry,> > > > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by> > > > the> > > > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact > Birth> > > > Time> > > > > especially in KP system.> > > > > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the> > > > > prediction comes true> > > > > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on> > > > theortical> > > > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely > and> > > > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> > > > > > > ,> > > > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP > astrologers> > > > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Naidu KP> > > > > > > K. P. Naidu,> > > > > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> > > > > > > Nowroji Road,> > > > > > > Maharanipeta,> > > > > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> > > > > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:> > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther@> > > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: -> > > > > > > This is only an example.> > > > > > > Supposing : -> > > > > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant  >  Â> > > > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> > > > > > > Because: -> > > > > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00> > > > > > >            Ascendant falls at       26-> 42-> > > > > 07> > > > > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM > and> > > > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that> > > > watch of> > > > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some > body> > > > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few> > > > seconds.> > > > > Hope one and all agree to it.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to > Sun> > > > sub-> > > > > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 > seconds.> > > > > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or > 2> > > > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM> > > > Ascendant> > > > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could > change> > > > the> > > > > sub-sub from sun to Moon.> > > > > > > That means: -> > > > > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> > > > > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> > > > > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time > to> > > > be> > > > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we > give> > > > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one > should> > > > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> > > > > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the > sub of> > > > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon > relation,> > > > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-> > > > epoch> > > > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the > sub-> > > > sub?> > > > > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with > in> > > > one> > > > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation > these> > > > are> > > > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an> > > > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at> > > > the> > > > > junctures.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Dr. Luther> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> > > > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to > share> > > > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> > > > > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in > to> > > > > the division of sign, star and subs.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > 7th August 2008> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-> > > > > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> > > > > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-> 07Â> > > > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-> 19Â> > > > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does > Leo.> > > > > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also > Uttara> > > > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted> > > > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari> > > > system.> > > > > So also the sub-sub.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as> > > > > follows: -> > > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                   Â> > > > > 40.0 Mins> > > > > > > Kethu                          >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >          46.7 Mins> > > > > > > Mars                          >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >          46.7 Mins> > > > > > > Moon                           >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >         66.7 Mins> > > > > > > Jupiter                         >  Â> > > > >        106.7 Mins> > > > > > > Mercury                         >  Â> > > > >     113.3 Mins> > > > > > > Rahu                          >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >        120.0 Mins> > > > > > > Saturn                         >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >       126.7 Mins> > > > > > > Venus                          >  Â> > > > >        133.3 Mins> > > > > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3> > > > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in> > > > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> > > > > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> > > > > > > Sun gets an arc of                   Â> > > > > 2.000 Mins> > > > > > > Kethu                          >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >          2.333 Mins> > > > > > > Mars                          >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >           2.333 Mins> > > > > > > Moon                           >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >         3.333 Mins> > > > > > > Jupiter                         >  Â> > > > >          5.333 Mins> > > > > > > Mercury                         >  Â> > > > >       5.667 Mins> > > > > > > Rahu                          >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >          6.000 Mins> > > > > > > Saturn                         >  Â> > > > Â> > > > >         6.333 Mins> > > > > > > Venus                          >  Â> > > > >          6.667 Mins> > > > > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a > sign.> > > > > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal > zone.> > > > > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of > arc.> > > > > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             > =Â> > > > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> > > > > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute > or> > > > 60> > > > > seconds.> > > > > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15> > > > seconds.> > > > > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in > zodiac.> > > > > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub > will be> > > > > as follows: -> > > > > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> > > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> > > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> > > > > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> > > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> > > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> > > > > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the > 1st> > > > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and > in> > > > sub-> > > > > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only > after 30> > > > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born > after> > > > 1> > > > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it > bypasses 2> > > > or> > > > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time> > > > brings a> > > > > lot of differences in the twins.> > > > > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of > arc.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 > secs> > > > > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> > > > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> > > > > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> > > > > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> > > > > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> > > > > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> > > > > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in > Sun,> > > > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will > change.> > > > If> > > > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub > must> > > > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many> > > > > aspects.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This > variation> > > > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of > Moon> > > > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > > Dr. Luther> > > > > > > Â> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> > > > > > > @gro ups..com> > > > > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > > > > > >> > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs > and in> > > > a> > > > > sub> > > > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be> > > > > apprx. 54> > > > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of> > > > > apprx. 2> > > > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same> > > > lagna> > > > > sub> > > > > > > lord/sub sub lord.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has> > > > > different> > > > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction> > > > since> > > > > moon> > > > > > > stays long in a star/sub.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice> > > > > > >> > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" > punitp@> > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection > method. I> > > > > believe> > > > > > > that> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I> > > > don't> > > > > > > have any> > > > > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that > the> > > > > forum is> > > > > > > divided on> > > > > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct> > > > method.> > > > > I> > > > > > > just wanted> > > > > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new > members..> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi> > > > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > > > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a> > > > > > > recent book> > > > > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > > > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 -> > > > > 55,examples> > > > > > > have been> > > > > > > > > given by the author of this article...*> > > > > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will> > > > > > > remove all> > > > > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my > humble> > > > > > > opinion.It has been> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at > the> > > > > time> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > > > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of> > > > > > > BTRT that I> > > > > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with> > > > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > > > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with> > > > the> > > > > > > planetary and> > > > > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > > > > > > > The method I use is advocated> > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away > from> > > > the> > > > > exact> > > > > > > TOB...> > > > > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from> > > > > > > Linda> > > > > > > > > Goodman's book :*> > > > > > > > > "*A woman can conceive only> > > > > > > during> > > > > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar > Month,when> > > > the> > > > > SUN> > > > > > > and the MOON> > > > > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at > the> > > > TOB> > > > > of> > > > > > > the* *Female> > > > > > > > > in question*... "> > > > > > > > > With best wishes,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > L.Y.Rao.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on > the> > > > > accuracy> > > > > > > of this> > > > > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and > the> > > > > file> > > > > > > section.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method> > > > and> > > > > some> > > > > > > other senior> > > > > > > > > members don't believe this method.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo> > > > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo> > > > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas > tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > > > > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Respected seniors,> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH > CHART> > > > > who born> > > > > > > in a> > > > > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR > AND> > > > > SUB. But> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all> > > > > > > activities.> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS > TOTALLY> > > > > DIFFERENT> > > > > > > AND> > > > > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR > LORD> > > > > AND SUB> > > > > > > LORD> > > > > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord > SUN,> > > > for> > > > > a> > > > > > > given> > > > > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may> > > > 1,1966,lagna> > > > > > > tarus,time> > > > > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, > time> > > > > 7.42 to> > > > > > > 8.59)> > > > > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am,> > > > > 20.53@moon/ven,> > > > > > > here it> > > > > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since > sun> > > > > sub is> > > > > > > coming> > > > > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> If we> > > > > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this> > > > > > > moon> > > > > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though > there> > > > is> > > > > much> > > > > > > time> > > > > > > > >> gap.> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > > > > > > > >> pl.advice> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_> > > > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> > > > > > > om/address>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under> > > > one> > > > > roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > ------------------------------> > > Be the first one to try the new Messenger 9 Beta! Click > here.<http://in.rd./tagline_messenger_7/*http://in.messenger> ./win/>> > >> > > > > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Dear Swami ji, 1. Yes, the chart on pages 107 & 217 of KP Reader III, Old/Original Edition of 1971 version(pages 269 & 387 of KP Reader III, New Edition) ( pages 169 & 321 of original Krishnamurti Padhdhati Vol 2, 1966) for DOB 1 Nov 1908 is Guruji KSK's chart giving his own examples of getting scholarship and having delay in his pension case. 2. The TOB 12:11 PM IST given in the article in A & A and reprinted by his 2nd and 3rd son in two books, and in Msg#1544/8400/8403 etc is to get the same Lagna position and navamsa as shown by Gurji KSK in the above books. 3. " > Incidentally this is same horoscope only Moon is at 11 d 52 m instead of 12D 27M." That is the point that it is impossible to get simultaneously the same Lagna and Moon. It is not in line with the assumption of taking only the correct charts and intensive practice of BTR . 4. The timeline is for information and to get additional information. The rules are set in general and there can be the exceptional charts with some major events not tallied with the rules. Even though the KP rules are applied, the conclusion can be different from person to person. 5. For example, Sahhasra Saagara, DOB: 7th May 1955, at: Periya patna- 12N20/76E13 at: 2-45 hrs, Asc Aq 23:33:32, NKPA 23:08:36, by KPAstro 3.0 - - a) Dasa lord Ven is in the star of Mer and sub of Sun. Ven is in 1, l/o 4,9 (Badhaka). Mer is in 3, l/o 5,8. Sun is in 2 (Maraka), l/o 7 (Maraka). b) The sub Maraka signification is in line with Badhaka at the planet level, and makes the signification of 3,8 ineffective, causing a concern for health. Good health or saver 1,5 is opposed by the sub Maraka signification. It is good for health that 8 is not strong. Because 4 (end of every thing) is already here. A combination of 4,8 with Badhaka and Maraka can be a danger to life. c) In such case, we need to check the longevity by Asc sublord Sat, which is in the star of Jup and sub of Mer. Sat+ is in 8, l/o 1,12. No plt in the star Sat, which the sublord of 5,7,8,11. Jup is 5, l/o 2,11. Mer is in 3, l/o 5,8. The longevity is indicated for average to encounter the concern for health in Venus dasa. d) Without 10 (name, fame) and with 9 (12 to 10) it is difficult to expect name and fame. But it is good for health and otherwise in combination of Badhaka and Maraka it can be 10 (retirement from this world). 6. As per the 4 step primary significators by the KPAstro 3.0 print out – Planet Venus: Starlord of Venus is Mercury: 3 Sublord of Venus is Su: Starlord of Sun is Venus: 1; 9 It's survival by 1,3 against 9. Teh effects of 3,9 can be enjoyed. Here self effort 1 and laziness 9 may be conflicting. Thanks and regards, tw , "swami" <swami wrote:>> > || Om Gurave Namah ||> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah> Hari Om,> Dear Sir,> Are you referring chart on page 107 of Reader III, for date 1 Nov 1908 and case of penson on page 217.> Lagna and moon degree are claerly given therein.> lagna 11 degree and moon at 12 27 in reader in timing pension case.> Incidently this is same horoscope only Moon is at 11 d 52 m intead of 12D 27M.> I think Professor talked about delay of his own pension.However HE did not say so.> OM TATSAT> ------------------------> Swami_RCS > -----------------------> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has> created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."> --> > - > tw853 > > Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:29 AM> Re: BTR CONFSUSION -- -Guruji's KSK's TOB> > > Dear All,> > Can any practitioner of BTR help rectify Guruji KSK's TOB to get the > close positions of Asc & Mon as shown in the KP Reader III?> > Thanks and regards,> > tw> , Luther Rath rathluther@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Sir,> > Thank you very much for your message.I presume I got sufficient > clerification. I too believe that we need correct birth time when we > use KP System.> > Thank you again.> > Dr. Luther> > > > > > > > > > swami swami@> > > > Monday, August 18, 2008 6:55:28 AM> > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > Hari Om,> > Dear Dr Luther,> > I agree and I believe Prof KSK in 1971 did not have a need to > Justify life events OF indira Gandhi.He actually wanted to predict > her future.By then HE was already recognized "inventor and exponent > of application of SUB theory".> > Second observation should be seen, that any event can be justified > by any birth time, for we have large number of theories and > rules.This is why Astrological writing are just justification > barring a few that are predictions or related to KP.> > Traditional astrologers use various combination of methods .They > may work out prediction from tested methods but talk or write on any > data,,which is possible.Some have authentic Birth data But do not > share.> > No we are not wrong running after BT.If we use KP we need accurate > Data.FOR Vedic approximate data could be helpful.> > Lastly When I started learning Astrology around 1970 Prof KSK left > around march 1972 .Prof KSK Did extensive work on rectification by > Ruiling planets , is clear from his writings , So I believe He must > have been working on correct data rather then supplied data.> > Sorry I have no proof for my belief.I too never talk to my > consultees what their correct BT is unless they bring their > astrologer to me, but silently flow with part of working.> > Please take my views , in the context they are expressed.I have > great respect to people who teach and Prof KSK is one of them.> > I hope I have clarified the point raised.> > with regards. > > OM TATSAT> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > Swami_RCS > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being > who has> > created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ----> ----- --> > > > - > > Luther Rath > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:15 PM> > Re: Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > > Dear Sirs,> > After reading the message one conceives that Late. Mrs. Indira > Gandhi was born any time between 11 to > > 11-40 AM. Inspite of such a long gap the prominent strologers have > predicted her life events correctly. Firstly I would like to rule > out that the predictions were post-facto and attempt was made to > justify the incidents. Secondly, if every atrologer was right though > they differed grossly in birth time,then exact birth time is not > needed to predict events. Thirdlly, the traditional astrologers > examine the charts for planets and cusps from sign to sign, not > giving importance to constellations and subs, is that the adventage > of predicting correctly in abscence of pin-pointed birth time?> > Are we wrong running after BTR? > > Are we going beyond necessity?> > Swamiji says Prof. Krishnamurty did give examples, quite a number, > with out BTR. What does it mean? Did KSK did not feel the necessity > of BTR?> > May I have the clerifications on the above points please?> > > > Dr. Luther> > > > > > > > > > tw853 tw853 >> > @gro ups.com> > Saturday, August 16, 2008 8:33:22 PM> > Re: BTR CONFSUSION> > > > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > > 1. I feel that the Vedic astrologers are not crazy for the BTR. > They > > try to jsutify how Indira Gandhi reached to her peak during Sat-> Sat > > DB as per the TOB 11:11 PM with difficulties by saying Satun's > > favorable position as per chapter 43 of the BPHS and in the > > navamsa, Saravali, Bhavar the Ratnakara, D10, atma karaka, and two > > negatives making positive through so many adverse affects on the > 8th > > etc. Also it is also very dfficult for them to justify the > Tagore's > > death during the DB Jup-Jup, which is lord of lagna and is also > > exalted in the 9th from Arudha lagna (as per Jaimini), and they > > opted to justify by taking the starlord of Jupiter, in stead of > > changing the TOB. > > > > 2. The justification by the life events is to convince the > rectified > > TOB is reliable. Mrs. Kousalya Sattainathan also justify the > > Indra's "50" major events in her "KP's Astrology & Prime > Ministers" > > by using the TOB 23:40:48 IST (Asc Leo 4:11:44). But the > historical > > records are around 11:11 PM as shown below and the Cancer Asc > seems > > more reasonable in comparing with the charts of Tony Blair and > > George W Bush. > > > > 3. There is no wrong or correct TOB but only the rectified, and > AA, > > A, B, C etc according to the clasification of the AstroDatabank.> > > > 4. The most important thing in astrology is prediction and the > post > > mortem justification to learn and check the rules. > > > > Regards,> > > > tw> > > > From Msg#6579> > > > I--INDIRA GANDHI> > > > TOBs> > > > (1) around 11 PM IST, Biography by (a) Katherine Frank; (b) Pranay> > Gupte> > > > (2) 11:03 PM IST, Sanjay Rath: Crux of Vedic Astrology, p 49 & 344> > > > (3) 11:07 PM IST, PVR Narasimha Rao, "Predicting with Dasamsa",> > Astrological Magazine, Jan 2003, p 87> > > > (4) 11:10 PM IST> > http://www.indianas trology.com/ learn/artofpredi ction4.asp> > > > (5) 11:11 PM IST> > (a) K. N. Rao: Nehru Dinesty,p 106> > (b) K. N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, p 95> > © K. N. Rao: Journal of Astrlogy,> > http://www.journalo fastrology. com/archives/ Gandhi_Family. htm> > (d) . SJC, BirthDataBank2. zip Famous Birth Charts> > Ver 2.0> > (e) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi> > Astrology, p 112> > (f) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction p 256> > (g) Col A. K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, Transt, p 50> > (h) http://www.khaldea. com/charts/ indiragandhi. shtml> > (i) http://astrolreport .com/famous- g/gandhi. indira.htm> > (j) AstroDatabank, rated A from memory> > (k) Robert Jansky quotes her private secretary, "41 Ghatis 52 Phals> > and 23 Viphas = 11:11:14 PM IST"> > > > (6) 11:15 PM> > (a) Sumeet Chugh: Determing Profession and Ups & Downs in Career,> > p 94;> > (b) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Eventd through Dasa> > and Transit, p 10> > > > (7) 11:20 PM IST by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda, Light on Life, p> > 365> > > > (8) 11:39 PM IST by BV Raman in Astrological Magazine> > > > (9) 23:40:48 PM IST by Kousalya Sattainathan: KP's ASTROLOGY & > PRIME> > MINISTERS, Krishnamurti Publications, p 95> > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > Hari Om,> > > Dear TW ji > > > Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost > > Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart.> > > Is astrology a science of justification?> > > He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission .> > > Any views?> > > OM TATSAT> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > Swami_RCS > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > Being > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > -> > > > > > - > > > tw853 > > > @gro ups.com > > > Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > Dear Swami ji,> > > > > > 1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR.> > > > > > 2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too > > far > > > from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable.> > > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > > > tw> > > > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami@> wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > > Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah> > > > Hari Om,> > > > Dear TWji,> > > > Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I > > did > > > not find a single example of reading a chart where in > > rectifcation > > > is undertaken before chart reading.> > > > Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then > > > chart should be casted,How many follow it?> > > > I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct > > check > > > but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.> > > > Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where > > he > > > rectified the chart and published article about events in her > > life.( > > > ref A & A July 1971)> > > > He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.> > > > ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified > > Birth > > > time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of > > > Prenatal epoch theory)> > > > He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for > > > interested students,I woked it out ..with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the > > BT is > > > 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.> > > > There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.> > > > with regards> > > > OM TATSAT> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > > Swami_RCS > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------> > > > " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine > > Being > > > who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our > > understanding. "> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> -> > > -> > > > > > > > - > > > > tw853 > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that > > > Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart > > > analysis?. > > > > > > > > Thanks and regards,> > > > > > > > tw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food for Thought> > > > > > > > > > > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III > > or > > > the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji > > says, "I > > > shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you > > can > > > rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to > > the > > > research scholars."> > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an > > > established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct > > time > > > of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be > > > followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor > > who is > > > also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the > > correct > > > time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in > > the > > > labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his > > > attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the > > Mother a > > > very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that > > stage > > > neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical > > card > > > was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates > > the > > > first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken > > as > > > correct time of birth. > > > > > > > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to > > > the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have > > > already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been > > discussed > > > in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already > > mentioned > > > about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet > > to > > > understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of > > > birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first > > (when > > > this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by > > Dr.Satyaprakash > > > Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of > > the > > > Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the > > umbilical > > > cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these > > > conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and > > > anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But > > the > > > question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in > > such > > > situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons > > and > > > causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking > > any > > > chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will > > > come to your help.> > > > > > > > GOOD LUCK> > > > > > > > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@ > > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear sri Luther Ji,> > > > > > > > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the > > importance > > > of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is > > based > > > on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time > > > upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it > > may be > > > important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > > > > > > > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is > > > the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time > > > corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st > > breath ? > > > God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor > > room > > > with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st > > breath, > > > it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st > > movement > > > of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or > > 4th > > > breath time. who knows except the God.> > > > > > > > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all > > the > > > life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the > > > CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> > > > > > > > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles > > on > > > successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do > > not > > > confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I > > said > > > Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, > > > normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by > > the > > > native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth > > Time > > > especially in KP system.> > > > > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the > > > prediction comes true> > > > > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on > > theortical > > > aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and > > > conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> > > > > , > > > > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers > > > are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > > > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > > > > > Naidu KP> > > > > K. P. Naidu,> > > > > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> > > > > Nowroji Road,> > > > > Maharanipeta,> > > > > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> > > > > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:> > > > > Luther Rath rathluther@> > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > > > > This is only an example. > > > > > Supposing : -> > > > > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    > > >    Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > >  > > > > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> > > > > Because: -> > > > >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00> > > > >            Ascendant falls at       26-42-> > > 07> > > > > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and > > > not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that > > watch of > > > none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body > > > mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few > > seconds. > > > Hope one and all agree to it.> > > > >  > > > > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun > > sub-> > > sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.> > > > >  > > > > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> > > > > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 > > > seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM > > Ascendant > > > was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change > > the > > > sub-sub from sun to Moon.> > > > > That means: -> > > > > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> > > > > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> > > > >  > > > > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> > > > > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to > > be > > > 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give > > > prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should > > > rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> > > > > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of > > > the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, > > > Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-> > epoch > > > relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-> > sub?> > > > > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in > > one > > > minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these > > are > > > vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an > > > Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at > > the > > > junctures. > > > > >  > > > > > Dr. Luther> > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> > > > > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > > > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share > > > my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> > > > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to > > > the division of sign, star and subs.> > > > >  > > > > > 7th August 2008> > > > >  > > > > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-> > > 56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> > > > > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 > > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 > > > Sun-Sun-Sun> > > > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> > > > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara > > > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted > > > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari > > system. > > > So also the sub-sub. > > > > >  > > > > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as > > > follows: -> > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > > 40.0 Mins> > > > > Kethu                            > >  > > >          46.7 Mins> > > > > Mars                            > >  > > >          46.7 Mins> > > > > Moon                             > >  > > >         66.7 Mins> > > > > Jupiter                           > > >        106.7 Mins> > > > > Mercury                           > > >     113.3 Mins> > > > > Rahu                            > >  > > >        120.0 Mins> > > > > Saturn                           > >  > > >       126.7 Mins> > > > > Venus                            > > >        133.3 Mins> > > > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 > > > minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in > > > comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> > > > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> > > > > Sun gets an arc of                    > > > 2.000 Mins> > > > > Kethu                            > >  > > >          2.333 Mins> > > > > Mars                            > >  > > >           2.333 Mins> > > > > Moon                             > >  > > >         3.333 Mins> > > > > Jupiter                           > > >          5.333 Mins> > > > > Mercury                           > > >       5.667 Mins> > > > > Rahu                            > >  > > >          6.000 Mins> > > > > Saturn                           > >  > > >         6.333 Mins> > > > > Venus                            > > >          6.667 Mins> > > > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> > > > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> > > > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.> > > > >  > > > > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> > > > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = > > > 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> > > > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or > > 60 > > > seconds.> > > > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 > > seconds.> > > > > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> > > > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be > > > as follows: -> > > > > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> > > > > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > > > > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> > > > > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> > > > > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> > > > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> > > > > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > >  > > > > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st > > > child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in > > sub-> > > sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 > > > seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after > > 1 > > > min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 > > or > > > three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time > > brings a > > > lot of differences in the twins.> > > > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.> > > > >  > > > > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > > > > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > > > > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> > > > > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> > > > > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> > > > > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> > > > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> > > > > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> > > > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, > > > Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. > > If > > > birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must > > > change and there will be difference between the twins in many > > > aspects.> > > > >  > > > > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation > > > will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon > > > shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> > > > >  > > > > > Dr. Luther> > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> > > > > @gro ups..com> > > > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > > > > > > > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in > > a > > > sub > > > > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be > > > apprx. 54 > > > > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > > > > > > > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of > > > apprx. 2 > > > > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same > > lagna > > > sub > > > > > lord/sub sub lord.> > > > > > > > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has > > > different > > > > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction > > since > > > moon > > > > > stays long in a star/sub.> > > > > > > > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > > > > > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I > > > believe > > > > > that> > > > > >> > > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I > > don't > > > > > have any> > > > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the > > > forum is > > > > > divided on> > > > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct > > method. > > > I > > > > > just wanted> > > > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members..> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > > > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > > > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > > > > recent book> > > > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - > > > 55,examples > > > > > have been> > > > > > > given by the author of this article...*> > > > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > > > > remove all> > > > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > > > > opinion.It has been> > > > > > >> > > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the > > > time > > > > > of> > > > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > > > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > > > > BTRT that I> > > > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > > > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with > > the > > > > > planetary and> > > > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > > > > > The method I use is advocated > > > > > for> > > > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from > > the > > > exact > > > > > TOB...> > > > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > > > > Linda> > > > > > > Goodman's book :*> > > > > > > "*A woman can conceive only > > > > > during> > > > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when > > the > > > SUN > > > > > and the MOON> > > > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the > > TOB > > > of > > > > > the* *Female> > > > > > > in question*... "> > > > > > > With best wishes,> > > > > > >> > > > > L.Y.Rao.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > > > > > @gro ups.com> > > > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the > > > accuracy > > > > > of this> > > > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the > > > file > > > > > section.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method > > and > > > some > > > > > other senior> > > > > > > members don't believe this method.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > > > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > > > > ger<http://friendfeed. . com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > > > > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Respected seniors,> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART > > > who born > > > > > in a> > > > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND > > > SUB. But> > > > > > >>> > > > > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > > > > activities.> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY > > > DIFFERENT > > > > > AND> > > > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD > > > AND SUB > > > > > LORD> > > > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, > > for > > > a > > > > > given> > > > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may > > 1,1966,lagna > > > > > tarus,time> > > > > > >> 8..25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time > > > 7.42 to > > > > > 8.59)> > > > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, > > > 20.53@moon/ven, > > > > > here it> > > > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun > > > sub is > > > > > coming> > > > > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> If we> > > > > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > > > > moon> > > > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there > > is > > > much > > > > > time> > > > > > >> gap.> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > > > > > >> pl.advice> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > > > > > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ > > > 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> > > > > om/address>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under > > one > > > roof. 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