BTR CONFUSION

[Guest guest]

Respected seniors,

 

PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:

 

Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born in a

few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But

between the twins there is much much difference in all activities.

 

Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND

THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.

 

In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB LORD

as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

 

If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a given

lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna tarus,time

8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to 8.59)

(At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, here it

is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is coming

at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon

 

If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this moon

star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much time

gap.

 

ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK

pl.advice

[Guest guest]

Dear Tranquas,

That is precisely why I personally match the Lagna sub and sub-sub to appear as Moon's st.lord,and sub-lord respectively...which ensures correction upto the level of seconds,further accuracy upto can be obtained by extending upto the level of sub-sub-sub of the Ascendant....and so on...

L.Y.Rao.

 

tranquas <tranquas Sent: Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 7:58:19 AM BTR CONFUSION

 

Respected seniors,PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born in a few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But between the twins there is much much difference in all activities.Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB LORD as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a given lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna tarus,time 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to 8.59)(At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, here it is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is coming at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon If we adjust as per BTR

the people born or even twins on this moon star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much time gap.ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSKpl.advice

Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

[Guest guest]

Dear Tranquas ji,

 

Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy of this method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file section.

 

Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some other senior members don't believe this method.

Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyTwitter: http://twitter.com/punitastrologerFriendFeed: http://friendfeed.com/punitastrologer

 

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Respected seniors,PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born in a few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But between the twins there is much much difference in all activities.

Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB LORD as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a given lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna tarus,time 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to 8.59)(At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, here it

is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is coming at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this moon star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much time

gap.ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSKpl.advice

[Guest guest]

Dear Tranquas & Punit,

Allow me to refer you to a recent book Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :

The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples have been given by the author of this article...

Perusal of the above will remove all myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble opinion.It has been consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time of conception/fertilisation of the ovum,

Further to the mehod of BTRT that I follow,I do not forget to confirm with RPs...Fortunately,Mr.Raichur's SW gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the planetary and cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

The method I use is advocated for Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact TOB...

KSK shared the SECRET...from Linda Goodman's book :

"A woman can conceive only during aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN and the MOON are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of the Female in question..."

With best wishes,

L.Y.Rao.

 

Punit Pandey <punitp Sent: Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AMRe: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

Dear Tranquas ji,

 

Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy of this method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file section.

 

Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some other senior members don't believe this method.

Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyTwitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo gerFriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger

 

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Respected seniors,PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born in a few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But between the twins there is much much difference in all activities.Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB LORD as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a given lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna tarus,time 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to 8.59)(At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, here it is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is coming at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon If we adjust as per BTR

the people born or even twins on this moon star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much time gap.ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSKpl.advice

Get an email ID as yourname or yourname.

[Guest guest]

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe that selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't have any objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is divided on this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I just wanted to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Tranquas & Punit,

Allow me to refer you to a recent book Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :

The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples have been given by the author of this article...

Perusal of the above will remove all myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble opinion.It has been consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time of conception/fertilisation of the ovum,

Further to the mehod of BTRT that I follow,I do not forget to confirm with RPs...Fortunately,Mr.Raichur's SW gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the planetary and cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

The method I use is advocated for Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact TOB...

KSK shared the SECRET...from Linda Goodman's book :

" A woman can conceive only during aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN and the MOON are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of the Female in question... "

With best wishes,

L.Y.Rao.

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp

 

 

 

Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AMRe: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Tranquas ji,

 

Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy of this method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file section.

 

Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some other senior members don't believe this method.

Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyTwitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo gerFriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger

 

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Respected seniors,PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born in a few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But between the twins there is much much difference in all activities.

Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB LORD as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a given lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna tarus,time 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to 8.59)(At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, here it

is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is coming at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this moon star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much time

gap.ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSKpl.advice

 

 

Get an email ID as yourname or yourname.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI

 

My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub

apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54

mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.

 

when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2

hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub

lord/sub sub lord.

 

SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different

sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon

stays long in a star/sub.

 

Kindly seek your valuable advice

 

 

, " Punit Pandey " <punitp wrote:

>

> Dear Lajmi ji,

>

> It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe

that

> selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't

have any

> objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is

divided on

> this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I

just wanted

> to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

> On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi

<lyrastro1wrote:

>

> > Dear Tranquas & Punit,

> > Allow me to refer you to a

recent book

> > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*

> > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples

have been

> > given by the author of this article...*

> > * ** Perusal of the above will

remove all

> > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble

opinion.It has been

> > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time

of

> > conception/fertilisation of the ovum,*

> > * * Further to the mehod of

BTRT that I

> > follow,I do not forget to confirm with

RPs...Fortunately,Mr.Raichur's SW

> > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the

planetary and

> > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

> > The method I use is advocated

for

> > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact

TOB...

> > *KSK shared the SECRET...from

Linda

> > Goodman's book :*

> > " *A woman can conceive only

during

> > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN

and the MOON

> > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of

the* *Female

> > in question*... "

> > With best wishes,

> > L.Y.Rao.

> >

> >

> >

> > Punit Pandey <punitp

> >

> > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM

> > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> >

> > Dear Tranquas ji,

> >

> > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy

of this

> > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file

section.

> >

> > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some

other senior

> > members don't believe this method.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo

ger<http://twitter.com/punitastrologer>

> > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo

ger<http://friendfeed.com/punitastrologer>

> >

> >

> >

> > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas (AT) (DOT)

com<tranquas

> > > wrote:

> >

> >> Respected seniors,

> >>

> >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:

> >>

> >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born

in a

> >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But

> >> between the twins there is much much difference in all

activities.

> >>

> >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT

AND

> >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.

> >>

> >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB

LORD

> >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

> >>

> >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a

given

> >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna

tarus,time

> >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to

8.59)

> >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven,

here it

> >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is

coming

> >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon

> >>

> >> If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this

moon

> >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much

time

> >> gap.

> >>

> >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK

> >> pl.advice

> >>

> >>

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > Get an email ID as yourname or yourname Click

> >

here.<http://in.rd./tagline_dbid_4/*http://in.promos..c

om/address>

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.

 

7th August 2008

 

8-06 Am Ascendant Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu

8-07 AM Ascendant Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun

8-08 AM Ascendant Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun

Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub.

 

In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -

Sun gets an arc of 40.0 Mins

Kethu 46.7 Mins

Mars 46.7 Mins

Moon 66.7 Mins

Jupiter 106.7 Mins

Mercury 113.3 Mins

Rahu 120.0 Mins

Saturn 126.7 Mins

Venus 133.3 Mins

Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

Sun gets an arc of 2.000 Mins

Kethu 2.333 Mins

Mars 2.333 Mins

Moon 3.333 Mins

Jupiter 5.333 Mins

Mercury 5.667 Mins

Rahu 6.000 Mins

Saturn 6.333 Mins

Venus 6.667 Mins

The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

 

So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

Therefore in 1 minute it covers = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.

In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.

Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

Let us examine Sun¢s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -

Sun 15 secs*2.000 = 30 secs

Kethu 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs

Mars 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs

Moon 15 secs*3.333 = 50 secs

Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 = 1 min-20 secs

Mercury15 sec*5.667 = 1 min-25 secs

Rahu 15 secs*6.000 = 1 min-30 secs

Saturn 15 secs*6.333 = 1 min-35 secs

Venus 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs

 

From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.

Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

 

Sun 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs

Kethu 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs

Mars 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs

Moon 15 secs*11.111= 2 min-47 secs

Jupiter 15 secs*17.778= 4 min-27 secs

Mercury15 sec*18.889= 4 min-43 secs

Rahu 15 secs*20.000= 5 min-00 secs

Saturn 15 secs*21.111= 5 min-17 secs

Venus 15 secs*22.222= 5 min-33 secs

In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

 

Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

 

Dr. Luther

 

 

tranquas <tranquas Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JIMy strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub lord/sub sub lord.SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon stays long in a star/sub.Kindly seek your valuable advice @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" <punitp wrote:>> Dear Lajmi ji,> > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe that>

selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't have any> objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is divided on> this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I just wanted> to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1@. ..>wrote:> > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > Allow me to refer you to a recent book> > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples have been> > given by the author of this article...*> > * ** Perusal of the above will remove all> > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble opinion.It has been> >

consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time of> > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > * * Further to the mehod of BTRT that I> > follow,I do not forget to confirm with RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the planetary and> > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > The method I use is advocated for> > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact TOB...> > *KSK shared the SECRET....from Linda> > Goodman's book :*> > "*A woman can conceive only during> > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN and the MOON> > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of the* *Female> > in question*... "> > With best wishes,> >

L.Y.Rao.> >> >> > > > Punit Pandey <punitp> > @gro ups.com> > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> >> > Dear Tranquas ji,> >> > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy of this> > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file section.> >> > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some other senior> > members don't believe this method.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> >> >> >> > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas <tranquas@ ...>> > > wrote:> >> >> Respected seniors,> >>> >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> >>> >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born in a> >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> >>

between the twins there is much much difference in all activities.> >>> >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND> >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> >>> >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB LORD> >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> >>> >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a given> >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna tarus,time> >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to 8.59)> >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, here it> >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is coming> >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> >>> >> If we

adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this moon> >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much time> >> gap.> >>> >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> >> pl.advice> >>> >>> >> > ------------ --------- ---------> > Get an email ID as yourname or yourname Click> > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. /address>> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr.Luther

 

I am extremly thankful for ur detailed reply and no need to say

sorry for sharing knowledge.

The confusion is if we attempt BTR correction based on moon satr

lord/sub lord as lagna sub/sub sub whether it will come correctly

since lagna is a fast moving one where the sub/sub sub are changing

rapidly as you explained where as moon is very slow compared to

lagna. Then how to asertain which is correct lagna sub/sub sub.

still i am not clear on this. pl.advice

Thanks once again

 

 

, Luther Rath <rathluther

wrote:

>

> Dear Sir,

> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my

opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the

division of sign, star and subs.

>  

> 7th August 2008

>  

> 8-06 Am          Ascendant        Leo 26-27-56  Sun-Venus-Kethu

> 8-07 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-42-07  Sun-Sun-Sun

> 8-08 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-59-19  Sun-Sun-Sun

> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara

Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted

uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system.

So also the sub-sub.

>  

> In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -

> Sun gets an arc of                     40.0 Mins

> Kethu                                       46.7 Mins

> Mars                                        46.7 Mins

> Moon                                       66.7 Mins

> Jupiter                                    106.7 Mins

> Mercury                                 113.3 Mins

> Rahu                                      120.0 Mins

> Saturn                                    126.7 Mins

> Venus                                     133.3 Mins

> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts.

So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to

zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

> Sun gets an arc of                     2.000 Mins

> Kethu                                       2.333 Mins

> Mars                                        2.333 Mins

> Moon                                       3.333 Mins

> Jupiter                                      5.333 Mins

> Mercury                                   5.667 Mins

> Rahu                                        6.000 Mins

> Saturn                                      6.333 Mins

> Venus                                       6.667 Mins

> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

>  

> So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

> Therefore in 1 minute it covers              =  1800/120 = 15

minutes of arc.

> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60

seconds.

> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

> Let us examine Sun¢s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as

follows: -

> Sun      15 secs*2.000  =          30 secs

> Kethu  15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> Mars    15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> Moon   15 secs*3.333  =          50 secs

> Jupiter  15 secs*5.333  =          1 min-20 secs

> Mercury15 sec*5.667  =          1 min-25 secs

> Rahu    15 secs*6.000  =          1 min-30 secs

> Saturn 15 secs*6.333  =          1 min-35 secs

> Venus   15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

>  

> From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child

is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of

son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds

the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and

40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-

subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of

differences in the twins.

> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

>  

> Sun      15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

> Kethu  15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> Mars    15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> Moon   15 secs*11.111=         2 min-47 secs

> Jupiter  15 secs*17.778=         4 min-27 secs

> Mercury15 sec*18..889=          4 min-43 secs

> Rahu    15 secs*20..000=         5 min-00 secs

> Saturn 15 secs*21.111=         5 min-17 secs

> Venus   15 secs*22.222=         5 min-33 secs

> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu

or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth

is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and

there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

>  

> Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will

bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall

not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

>  

> Dr. Luther

>  

>

>

>

>

> tranquas <tranquas

>

> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM

> Re: BTR CONFUSION

>

>

> Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI

>

> My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub

> apprx..2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx.

54

> mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.

>

> when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2

> hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub

> lord/sub sub lord.

>

> SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different

> sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon

> stays long in a star/sub.

>

> Kindly seek your valuable advice

>

> @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " <punitp@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lajmi ji,

> >

> > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I

believe

> that

> > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't

> have any

> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum

is

> divided on

> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I

> just wanted

> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi

> <lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,

> > > Allow me to refer you to a

> recent book

> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*

> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples

> have been

> > > given by the author of this article...*

> > > * ** Perusal of the above will

> remove all

> > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble

> opinion.It has been

> > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the

time

> of

> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*

> > > * * Further to the mehod of

> BTRT that I

> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with

> RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW

> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the

> planetary and

> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

> > > The method I use is advocated

> for

> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the

exact

> TOB...

> > > *KSK shared the SECRET...from

> Linda

> > > Goodman's book :*

> > > " *A woman can conceive only

> during

> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN

> and the MOON

> > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of

> the* *Female

> > > in question*... "

> > > With best wishes,

> > > L.Y.Rao.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey <punitp@>

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM

> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> > >

> > > Dear Tranquas ji,

> > >

> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the

accuracy

> of this

> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file

> section.

> > >

> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some

> other senior

> > > members don't believe this method.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo

> ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo

> ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas (AT) (DOT)

> com<tranquas@ ...>

> > > > wrote:

> > >

> > >> Respected seniors,

> > >>

> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:

> > >>

> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who

born

> in a

> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But

> > >> between the twins there is much much difference in all

> activities.

> > >>

> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY

DIFFERENT

> AND

> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.

> > >>

> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND

SUB

> LORD

> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

> > >>

> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a

> given

> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna

> tarus,time

> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42

to

> 8.59)

> > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven,

> here it

> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is

> coming

> > >> at 9..07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon

> > >>

> > >> If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this

> moon

> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is

much

> time

> > >> gap.

> > >>

> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK

> > >> pl.advice

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click

> > >

> here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos.

.c

> om/address>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This a practicall and useful contribution for the group other than

the endless speculative sayings for just the sake of saying.

 

It is not to take only word by word but to get the overall idea. In

the case of Lagna and Moon, Lagna is more precise than Moon for

differentation in prediction for one and another native whether in

the case of twin or single, since Lagna is moving and making changes

the star and sub (which are used in KP) of the cusps much faster

than Moon. Pl see the uploaded " picture 19 " in the file section, a

short Forward note in Manu's Astrological Tables for All.

 

For example, native born on 06-06-1968, " 12:54 " IST, 11N26, 76E53

(courtesy of Vijay Kumar, Job Change, KP E-Zine June 2008), Sid Time

05:30:37 (for TOB 12:54IST), New KPA 23:19:34, by changing TOB only

1 minute to " 12:55 " IST (Sid Time 05:31:37), the subs changes for

the 7 cusps as shown below:

 

Plt-12:54-12:55IST

2nd-Sat---Mercury

3rd-Moon--Mars

4th-Sat---Ketu

5th-Mars--Rahu

7th-Sun---Moon

8th-Sat---Ketu

10th-Sat--Mercury

 

The sub lord of the Moon is the same Mercury and also the same for

Lagna, i.e. Rahu. It is to have an wider view about the changes not

only in Lagna and Moon but also in other cusps. (Picture 19) Moon is

doing the same job of giving the dasa balance at birth whether it is

taken as the first house or not.

 

 

, Luther Rath <rathluther

wrote:

>

> Dear Sir,

> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my

opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the

division of sign, star and subs.

>  

> 7th August 2008

>  

> 8-06 Am          Ascendant        Leo 26-27-56  Sun-Venus-Kethu

> 8-07 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-42-07  Sun-Sun-Sun

> 8-08 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-59-19  Sun-Sun-Sun

> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara

Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted

uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system.

So also the sub-sub.

>  

> In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -

> Sun gets an arc of                     40.0 Mins

> Kethu                                       46.7 Mins

> Mars                                        46.7 Mins

> Moon                                       66.7 Mins

> Jupiter                                    106.7 Mins

> Mercury                                 113.3 Mins

> Rahu                                      120.0 Mins

> Saturn                                    126.7 Mins

> Venus                                     133.3 Mins

> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts.

So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to

zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

> Sun gets an arc of                     2.000 Mins

> Kethu                                       2.333 Mins

> Mars                                        2.333 Mins

> Moon                                       3.333 Mins

> Jupiter                                      5.333 Mins

> Mercury                                   5.667 Mins

> Rahu                                        6.000 Mins

> Saturn                                      6.333 Mins

> Venus                                       6.667 Mins

> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

>  

> So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

> Therefore in 1 minute it covers              =  1800/120 = 15

minutes of arc.

> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60

seconds.

> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

> Let us examine Sun¢s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as

follows: -

> Sun      15 secs*2.000  =          30 secs

> Kethu  15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> Mars    15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> Moon   15 secs*3.333  =          50 secs

> Jupiter  15 secs*5.333  =          1 min-20 secs

> Mercury15 sec*5.667  =          1 min-25 secs

> Rahu    15 secs*6.000  =          1 min-30 secs

> Saturn 15 secs*6.333  =          1 min-35 secs

> Venus   15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

>  

> From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child

is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of

son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds

the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and

40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-

subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of

differences in the twins.

> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

>  

> Sun      15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

> Kethu  15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> Mars    15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> Moon   15 secs*11.111=         2 min-47 secs

> Jupiter  15 secs*17.778=         4 min-27 secs

> Mercury15 sec*18..889=          4 min-43 secs

> Rahu    15 secs*20..000=         5 min-00 secs

> Saturn 15 secs*21.111=         5 min-17 secs

> Venus   15 secs*22.222=         5 min-33 secs

> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu

or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth

is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and

there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

>  

> Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will

bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall

not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

>  

> Dr. Luther

>  

>

>

>

>

> tranquas <tranquas

>

> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM

> Re: BTR CONFUSION

>

>

> Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI

>

> My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub

> apprx..2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx.

54

> mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.

>

> when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2

> hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub

> lord/sub sub lord.

>

> SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different

> sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon

> stays long in a star/sub.

>

> Kindly seek your valuable advice

>

> @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " <punitp@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lajmi ji,

> >

> > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I

believe

> that

> > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't

> have any

> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum

is

> divided on

> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I

> just wanted

> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi

> <lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,

> > > Allow me to refer you to a

> recent book

> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*

> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples

> have been

> > > given by the author of this article...*

> > > * ** Perusal of the above will

> remove all

> > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble

> opinion.It has been

> > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the

time

> of

> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*

> > > * * Further to the mehod of

> BTRT that I

> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with

> RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW

> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the

> planetary and

> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

> > > The method I use is advocated

> for

> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the

exact

> TOB...

> > > *KSK shared the SECRET...from

> Linda

> > > Goodman's book :*

> > > " *A woman can conceive only

> during

> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN

> and the MOON

> > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of

> the* *Female

> > > in question*... "

> > > With best wishes,

> > > L.Y.Rao.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey <punitp@>

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM

> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> > >

> > > Dear Tranquas ji,

> > >

> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the

accuracy

> of this

> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file

> section.

> > >

> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some

> other senior

> > > members don't believe this method.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo

> ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo

> ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas (AT) (DOT)

> com<tranquas@ ...>

> > > > wrote:

> > >

> > >> Respected seniors,

> > >>

> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:

> > >>

> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who

born

> in a

> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But

> > >> between the twins there is much much difference in all

> activities.

> > >>

> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY

DIFFERENT

> AND

> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.

> > >>

> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND

SUB

> LORD

> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

> > >>

> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a

> given

> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna

> tarus,time

> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42

to

> 8.59)

> > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven,

> here it

> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is

> coming

> > >> at 9..07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon

> > >>

> > >> If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this

> moon

> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is

much

> time

> > >> gap.

> > >>

> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK

> > >> pl.advice

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click

> > >

> here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos.

.c

> om/address>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In continuation to previous message: -

This is only an example.

Supposing : -

X is born at 8-07 AM Ascendant Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun

 

Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun-Moon sub-sub

Because: -

Sun sub begins at Leo 26-40-00

Ascendant falls at 26-42-07

Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.

 

Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.

 

In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.

This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.

That means: -

Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun-Sun.

Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun-Moon.

 

Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.

But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?

At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?

There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures.

 

Dr. Luther

 

 

Luther Rath <rathluther Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PMRe: Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir,

The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.

 

7th August 2008

 

8-06 Am Ascendant Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu

8-07 AM Ascendant Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun

8-08 AM Ascendant Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun

Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub.

 

In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -

Sun gets an arc of 40.0 Mins

Kethu 46.7 Mins

Mars 46.7 Mins

Moon 66.7 Mins

Jupiter 106.7 Mins

Mercury 113.3 Mins

Rahu 120.0 Mins

Saturn 126.7 Mins

Venus 133.3 Mins

Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

Sun gets an arc of 2.000 Mins

Kethu 2.333 Mins

Mars 2.333 Mins

Moon 3.333 Mins

Jupiter 5.333 Mins

Mercury 5.667 Mins

Rahu 6.000 Mins

Saturn 6.333 Mins

Venus 6.667 Mins

The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

 

So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

Therefore in 1 minute it covers = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.

In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.

Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

Let us examine Sun¢s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -

Sun 15 secs*2.000 = 30 secs

Kethu 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs

Mars 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs

Moon 15 secs*3.333 = 50 secs

Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 = 1 min-20 secs

Mercury15 sec*5.667 = 1 min-25 secs

Rahu 15 secs*6.000 = 1 min-30 secs

Saturn 15 secs*6.333 = 1 min-35 secs

Venus 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs

 

From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.

Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

 

Sun 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs

Kethu 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs

Mars 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs

Moon 15 secs*11.111= 2 min-47 secs

Jupiter 15 secs*17.778= 4 min-27 secs

Mercury15 sec*18.889= 4 min-43 secs

Rahu 15 secs*20.000= 5 min-00 secs

Saturn 15 secs*21.111= 5 min-17 secs

Venus 15 secs*22.222= 5 min-33 secs

In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

 

Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

 

Dr. Luther

 

 

tranquas <tranquas >@gro ups..comTuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JIMy strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub lord/sub sub lord.SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon stays long in a star/sub.Kindly seek your valuable advice @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" <punitp wrote:>> Dear Lajmi ji,> > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe that>

selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't have any> objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is divided on> this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I just wanted> to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1@. ..>wrote:> > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > Allow me to refer you to a recent book> > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples have been> > given by the author of this article...*> > * ** Perusal of the above will remove all> > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble opinion.It has been> >

consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time of> > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > * * Further to the mehod of BTRT that I> > follow,I do not forget to confirm with RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the planetary and> > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > The method I use is advocated for> > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact TOB...> > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from Linda> > Goodman's book :*> > "*A woman can conceive only during> > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN and the MOON> > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of the* *Female> > in question*... "> > With best wishes,> >

L.Y.Rao.> >> >> > > > Punit Pandey <punitp> > @gro ups.com> > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> >> > Dear Tranquas ji,> >> > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy of this> > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file section.> >> > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some other senior> > members don't believe this method.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> >> >> >> > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas <tranquas@ ...>> > > wrote:> >> >> Respected seniors,> >>> >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> >>> >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born in a> >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> >>

between the twins there is much much difference in all activities.> >>> >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND> >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> >>> >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB LORD> >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> >>> >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a given> >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna tarus,time> >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to 8.59)> >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, here it> >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is coming> >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> >>> >> If we

adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this moon> >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much time> >> gap.> >>> >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> >> pl.advice> >>> >>> >> > ------------ --------- ---------> > Get an email ID as yourname or yourname Click> > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. /address>> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Luther,

That is precisely the reason that I first make sure that the TOB is such that the sublord and the sub-sublord of the Ascendant appear as the Moon's st.lord and sublord respectively,if not,I correct the TOB to arrive at the time the above is observed...Only then,do I proceed to analyse the horoscope...

The theory behind this has been explained by me in this column above,several times...

In my personal experience I have observed that this method gives the exact TOB upto the second...provided the corrected time is within + or - 25 to 30 minutes of the given TOB...

You are requested to try this method and inform the results you get...especially predicting an event to take place in a particular sookshma...will come very close to the exact date which then can be fixed by the Sun's or Moon's or Jupiter's transit...as per recommendation by K.P. principles...

I have achieved 85 % success rate...so far...which,in my humble opinion is fair...

With best wishes,

L.Y.Rao.

 

Luther Rath <rathluther Sent: Thursday, 7 August, 2008 5:45:48 PMRe: Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

 

In continuation to previous message: -

This is only an example.

Supposing : -

X is born at 8-07 AM Ascendant Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun

 

Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub

Because: -

Sun sub begins at Leo 26-40-00

Ascendant falls at 26-42-07

Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.

 

Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.

 

In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.

This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.

That means: -

Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.

Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.

 

Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.

But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?

At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?

There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures.

 

Dr. Luther

 

 

Luther Rath <rathluther >@gro ups.comWednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PMRe: Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir,

The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.

 

7th August 2008

 

8-06 Am Ascendant Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu

8-07 AM Ascendant Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun

8-08 AM Ascendant Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun

Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub.

 

In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -

Sun gets an arc of 40.0 Mins

Kethu 46.7 Mins

Mars 46.7 Mins

Moon 66.7 Mins

Jupiter 106.7 Mins

Mercury 113.3 Mins

Rahu 120.0 Mins

Saturn 126.7 Mins

Venus 133.3 Mins

Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

Sun gets an arc of 2.000 Mins

Kethu 2.333 Mins

Mars 2.333 Mins

Moon 3.333 Mins

Jupiter 5.333 Mins

Mercury 5.667 Mins

Rahu 6.000 Mins

Saturn 6.333 Mins

Venus 6.667 Mins

The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

 

So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

Therefore in 1 minute it covers = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.

In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.

Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

Let us examine Sun’s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -

Sun 15 secs*2.000 = 30 secs

Kethu 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs

Mars 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs

Moon 15 secs*3.333 = 50 secs

Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 = 1 min-20 secs

Mercury15 sec*5.667 = 1 min-25 secs

Rahu 15 secs*6.000 = 1 min-30 secs

Saturn 15 secs*6.333 = 1 min-35 secs

Venus 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs

 

From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.

Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

 

Sun 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs

Kethu 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs

Mars 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs

Moon 15 secs*11.111= 2 min-47 secs

Jupiter 15 secs*17.778= 4 min-27 secs

Mercury15 sec*18.889= 4 min-43 secs

Rahu 15 secs*20.000= 5 min-00 secs

Saturn 15 secs*21.111= 5 min-17 secs

Venus 15 secs*22.222= 5 min-33 secs

In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

 

Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

 

Dr. Luther

 

 

tranquas <tranquas >@gro ups..comTuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JIMy strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub lord/sub sub lord.SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon stays long in a star/sub.Kindly seek your valuable advice @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" <punitp wrote:>> Dear Lajmi ji,> > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe that>

selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't have any> objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is divided on> this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I just wanted> to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1@. ..>wrote:> > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > Allow me to refer you to a recent book> > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples have been> > given by the author of this article...*> > * ** Perusal of the above will remove all> > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble opinion.It has been> >

consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time of> > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > * * Further to the mehod of BTRT that I> > follow,I do not forget to confirm with RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the planetary and> > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > The method I use is advocated for> > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact TOB...> > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from Linda> > Goodman's book :*> > "*A woman can conceive only during> > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN and the MOON> > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of the* *Female> > in question*... "> > With best wishes,> >

L.Y.Rao.> >> >> > > > Punit Pandey <punitp> > @gro ups.com> > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> >> > Dear Tranquas ji,> >> > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy of this> > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file section.> >> > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some other senior> > members don't believe this method.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> >> >> >> > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas <tranquas@ ...>> > > wrote:> >> >> Respected seniors,> >>> >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> >>> >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born in a> >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> >>

between the twins there is much much difference in all activities.> >>> >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND> >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> >>> >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB LORD> >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> >>> >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a given> >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna tarus,time> >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to 8.59)> >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, here it> >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is coming> >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> >>> >> If we

adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this moon> >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much time> >> gap.> >>> >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> >> pl.advice> >>> >>> >> > ------------ --------- ---------> > Get an email ID as yourname or yourname Click> > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. /address>> >> > > >>

Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr.Luther

 

pl.accept my namaskars and greatly thanful for ur detailed analysis

and clarifications. I totally accept your views and opinions.Even

YOU HAVE CHECKED AND APPRECIATED BTR corrections last week. My doubt

is whether based on moon star/sub fixing the lagna sub/sub sub will

give correct results, where in some cases the time difference is +

or - half hour. This for my understanding and learning only. I am

not an expert in this field, learning step by step.

When predictions are based on cusp and sub lord even a very small

difference can drastically change the outcome not only the lagna

house, the entire horoscope -------.

pl. educate me.

 

Thanks once again.

 

 

 

 

 

, Luther Rath <rathluther

wrote:

>

> In continuation to previous message: -

> This is only an example.

> Supposing : -

> X is born at      8-07 AM        Ascendant        Leo 26-42-07 

Sun-Sun-Sun

>  

> Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun-Moon sub-sub

> Because: -

>             Sun sub begins at Leo   26-40-00

>             Ascendant falls at        26-42-07

> Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not

20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of

none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body

mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds.

Hope one and all agree to it.

>  

> Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub

and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.

>  

> In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.

> This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds

only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in

Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub

from sun to Moon.

> That means: -

> Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun-Sun.

> Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun-Moon.

>  

> Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.

> But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-

06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give

prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should

rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?

> At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the

ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation,

Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch

relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?

> There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one

minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are

vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an

Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the

junctures.

>  

> Dr. Luther

>  

>

>

>

>

> Luther Rath <rathluther

>

> Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM

> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION

>

>

> Dear Sir,

> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my

opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the

division of sign, star and subs.

>  

> 7th August 2008

>  

> 8-06 Am          Ascendant        Leo 26-27-56  Sun-Venus-Kethu

> 8-07 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-42-07  Sun-Sun-Sun

> 8-08 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-59-19  Sun-Sun-Sun

> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara

Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted

uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system.

So also the sub-sub.

>  

> In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -

> Sun gets an arc of                     40.0 Mins

> Kethu                                       46.7 Mins

> Mars                                        46.7 Mins

> Moon                                       66.7 Mins

> Jupiter                                    106.7 Mins

> Mercury                                 113.3 Mins

> Rahu                                      120.0 Mins

> Saturn                                    126.7 Mins

> Venus                                     133.3 Mins

> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts.

So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to

zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

> Sun gets an arc of                     2.000 Mins

> Kethu                                       2.333 Mins

> Mars                                        2.333 Mins

> Moon                                       3.333 Mins

> Jupiter                                      5.333 Mins

> Mercury                                   5.667 Mins

> Rahu                                        6.000 Mins

> Saturn                                      6.333 Mins

> Venus                                       6.667 Mins

> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

>  

> So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

> Therefore in 1 minute it covers              =  1800/120 = 15

minutes of arc.

> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60

seconds.

> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

> Let us examine Sun¢s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as

follows: -

> Sun      15 secs*2.000  =          30 secs

> Kethu  15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> Mars    15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> Moon   15 secs*3.333  =          50 secs

> Jupiter  15 secs*5.333  =          1 min-20 secs

> Mercury15 sec*5.667  =          1 min-25 secs

> Rahu    15 secs*6.000  =          1 min-30 secs

> Saturn 15 secs*6.333  =          1 min-35 secs

> Venus   15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

>  

> From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child

is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of

son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds

the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and

40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-

subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of

differences in the twins.

> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

>  

> Sun      15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

> Kethu  15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> Mars    15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> Moon   15 secs*11.111=         2 min-47 secs

> Jupiter  15 secs*17.778=         4 min-27 secs

> Mercury15 sec*18.889=          4 min-43 secs

> Rahu    15 secs*20.000=         5 min-00 secs

> Saturn 15 secs*21.111=         5 min-17 secs

> Venus   15 secs*22.222=         5 min-33 secs

> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu

or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth

is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and

there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

>  

> Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will

bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall

not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

>  

> Dr. Luther

>  

>

>

>

>

> tranquas <tranquas >

> @gro ups.com

> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM

> Re: BTR CONFUSION

>

>

> Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI

>

> My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub

> apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54

> mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.

>

> when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2

> hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub

> lord/sub sub lord..

>

> SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different

> sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon

> stays long in a star/sub.

>

> Kindly seek your valuable advice

>

> @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " <punitp@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lajmi ji,

> >

> > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I

believe

> that

> > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't

> have any

> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum

is

> divided on

> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I

> just wanted

> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi

> <lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,

> > > Allow me to refer you to a

> recent book

> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*

> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples

> have been

> > > given by the author of this article...*

> > > * ** Perusal of the above will

> remove all

> > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble

> opinion.It has been

> > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the

time

> of

> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*

> > > * * Further to the mehod of

> BTRT that I

> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with

> RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW

> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the

> planetary and

> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

> > > The method I use is advocated

> for

> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the

exact

> TOB...

> > > *KSK shared the SECRET....from

> Linda

> > > Goodman's book :*

> > > " *A woman can conceive only

> during

> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN

> and the MOON

> > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of

> the* *Female

> > > in question*... "

> > > With best wishes,

> > > L.Y.Rao.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey <punitp@>

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM

> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> > >

> > > Dear Tranquas ji,

> > >

> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the

accuracy

> of this

> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file

> section.

> > >

> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some

> other senior

> > > members don't believe this method.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo

> ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo

> ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas (AT) (DOT)

> com<tranquas@ ...>

> > > > wrote:

> > >

> > >> Respected seniors,

> > >>

> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:

> > >>

> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who

born

> in a

> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But

> > >> between the twins there is much much difference in all

> activities.

> > >>

> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY

DIFFERENT

> AND

> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.

> > >>

> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND

SUB

> LORD

> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

> > >>

> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a

> given

> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna

> tarus,time

> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42

to

> 8.59)

> > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven,

> here it

> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is

> coming

> > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon

> > >>

> > >> If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this

> moon

> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is

much

> time

> > >> gap.

> > >>

> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK

> > >> pl.advice

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click

> > >

> here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos.

.c

> om/address>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear sri Luther Ji,You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be important in divisional charts D-60 and above.Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ? God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath, it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or 4th breath time. who knows except the

God.I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME. In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time especially in KP system.The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the prediction comes trueI observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality., To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers are safely and conveniently

resorting to HORARY method.Regards.Naidu KPK. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath <rathluther wrote:Luther Rath <rathlutherRe: Re: BTR CONFUSION Date: Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM

 

 

In continuation to previous message: - This is only an example. Supposing : -

X is born at 8-07 AM Ascendant Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun

Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub

Because: -

Sun sub begins at Leo 26-40-00

Ascendant falls at 26-42-07

Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.

Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.

In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.

This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.

That means: -

Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.

Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.

Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.

But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?

At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?

There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures.

Dr. Luther

 

 

Luther Rath <rathluther >@gro ups.comWednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PMRe: Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir,

The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.

 

7th August 2008

 

8-06 Am Ascendant Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu

8-07 AM Ascendant Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun

8-08 AM Ascendant Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun

Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub.

 

In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -

Sun gets an arc of 40.0 Mins

Kethu 46.7 Mins

Mars 46.7 Mins

Moon 66.7 Mins

Jupiter 106.7 Mins

Mercury 113.3 Mins

Rahu 120.0 Mins

Saturn 126.7 Mins

Venus 133.3 Mins

Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

Sun gets an arc of 2.000 Mins

Kethu 2.333 Mins

Mars 2.333 Mins

Moon 3.333 Mins

Jupiter 5.333 Mins

Mercury 5.667 Mins

Rahu 6.000 Mins

Saturn 6.333 Mins

Venus 6.667 Mins

The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

 

So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

Therefore in 1 minute it covers = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.

In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.

Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

Let us examine Sun’s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -

Sun 15 secs*2.000 = 30 secs

Kethu 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs

Mars 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs

Moon 15 secs*3.333 = 50 secs

Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 = 1 min-20 secs

Mercury15 sec*5.667 = 1 min-25 secs

Rahu 15 secs*6.000 = 1 min-30 secs

Saturn 15 secs*6.333 = 1 min-35 secs

Venus 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs

 

From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.

Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

 

Sun 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs

Kethu 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs

Mars 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs

Moon 15 secs*11.111= 2 min-47 secs

Jupiter 15 secs*17.778= 4 min-27 secs

Mercury15 sec*18.889= 4 min-43 secs

Rahu 15 secs*20.000= 5 min-00 secs

Saturn 15 secs*21.111= 5 min-17 secs

Venus 15 secs*22.222= 5 min-33 secs

In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

 

Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

 

Dr. Luther

 

 

tranquas <tranquas >@gro ups..comTuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JIMy strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub lord/sub sub lord.SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon stays long in a star/sub.Kindly seek your valuable advice @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" <punitp wrote:>> Dear Lajmi ji,> > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe that>

selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't have any> objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is divided on> this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I just wanted> to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1@. ..>wrote:> > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > Allow me to refer you to a recent book> > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples have been> > given by the author of this article...*> > * ** Perusal of the above will remove all> > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble opinion.It has been> >

consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time of> > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > * * Further to the mehod of BTRT that I> > follow,I do not forget to confirm with RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the planetary and> > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > The method I use is advocated for> > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact TOB...> > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from Linda> > Goodman's book :*> > "*A woman can conceive only during> > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN and the MOON> > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of the* *Female> > in question*... "> > With best wishes,> >

L.Y.Rao.> >> >> > > > Punit Pandey <punitp> > @gro ups.com> > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> >> > Dear Tranquas ji,> >> > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy of this> > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file section.> >> > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some other senior> > members don't believe this method.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> >> >> >> > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas <tranquas@ ...>> > > wrote:> >> >> Respected seniors,> >>> >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> >>> >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born in a> >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> >>

between the twins there is much much difference in all activities.> >>> >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND> >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> >>> >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB LORD> >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> >>> >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a given> >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna tarus,time> >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to 8.59)> >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, here it> >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is coming> >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> >>> >> If we

adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this moon> >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much time> >> gap.> >>> >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> >> pl.advice> >>> >>> >> > ------------ --------- ---------> > Get an email ID as yourname or yourname Click> > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. /address>> >> > > >>

 

Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

[Guest guest]

Respected TW853 SIR and all hounarable members,

 

Thank you for ur views and directions. Preciously that is what my

STRONG doubt in judging or predicting the results. Within not even

a min. difference the BHAVAS sub lord is changed and in certain

cases even the position of lords in a bhava is also changes. In that

case though a person is very sound on multi system of predictions

tend to say based on this which will be diametrically opposite

results. Hence it has to be fundamendally ensured first that a chart

is prepared or in multiple way verified the very efficacy of its

substance. EX.a sub may indicate 8/12, where as the same sub or the

other actual sub might actually indicate 7/11 etc, etc.......

 

PL. kindly advice on this major anamoly which not only helps a few,

THE VERY EFFECTIVENESS OF ASSISTING OR MANY INNOCENTs LIVES

DIRECTION CHANGES IN A POSITVE WAY, who takes the predictions or

interpretaion as the final or the destiny though THE SATHYAM is in

other way.

 

with high regards.

 

 

, " tw853 " <tw853 wrote:

>

> This a practicall and useful contribution for the group other than

> the endless speculative sayings for just the sake of saying.

>

> It is not to take only word by word but to get the overall idea.

In

> the case of Lagna and Moon, Lagna is more precise than Moon for

> differentation in prediction for one and another native whether in

> the case of twin or single, since Lagna is moving and making

changes

> the star and sub (which are used in KP) of the cusps much faster

> than Moon. Pl see the uploaded " picture 19 " in the file section, a

> short Forward note in Manu's Astrological Tables for All.

>

> For example, native born on 06-06-1968, " 12:54 " IST, 11N26, 76E53

> (courtesy of Vijay Kumar, Job Change, KP E-Zine June 2008), Sid

Time

> 05:30:37 (for TOB 12:54IST), New KPA 23:19:34, by changing TOB

only

> 1 minute to " 12:55 " IST (Sid Time 05:31:37), the subs changes for

> the 7 cusps as shown below:

>

> Plt-12:54-12:55IST

> 2nd-Sat---Mercury

> 3rd-Moon--Mars

> 4th-Sat---Ketu

> 5th-Mars--Rahu

> 7th-Sun---Moon

> 8th-Sat---Ketu

> 10th-Sat--Mercury

>

> The sub lord of the Moon is the same Mercury and also the same for

> Lagna, i.e. Rahu. It is to have an wider view about the changes

not

> only in Lagna and Moon but also in other cusps. (Picture 19) Moon

is

> doing the same job of giving the dasa balance at birth whether it

is

> taken as the first house or not.

>

>

> , Luther Rath <rathluther@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sir,

> > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my

> opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

> > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the

> division of sign, star and subs.

> >  

> > 7th August 2008

> >  

> > 8-06 Am          Ascendant        Leo 26-27-56  Sun-Venus-Kethu

> > 8-07 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-42-07  Sun-Sun-Sun

> > 8-08 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-59-19  Sun-Sun-Sun

> > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

> > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara

> Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted

> uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari

system.

> So also the sub-sub.

> >  

> > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -

> > Sun gets an arc of                     40.0 Mins

> > Kethu                                       46.7 Mins

> > Mars                                        46.7 Mins

> > Moon                                       66.7 Mins

> > Jupiter                                    106.7 Mins

> > Mercury                                 113.3 Mins

> > Rahu                                      120.0 Mins

> > Saturn                                    126.7 Mins

> > Venus                                     133.3 Mins

> > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts.

> So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison

to

> zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

> > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

> > Sun gets an arc of                     2.000 Mins

> > Kethu                                       2.333 Mins

> > Mars                                        2.333 Mins

> > Moon                                       3.333 Mins

> > Jupiter                                      5.333 Mins

> > Mercury                                   5.667 Mins

> > Rahu                                        6.000 Mins

> > Saturn                                      6.333 Mins

> > Venus                                       6.667 Mins

> > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

> > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

> > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

> >  

> > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

> > Therefore in 1 minute it covers              =  1800/120 = 15

> minutes of arc.

> > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60

> seconds.

> > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

> > Let us examine Sun¢s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

> > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as

> follows: -

> > Sun      15 secs*2.000  =          30 secs

> > Kethu  15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> > Mars    15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> > Moon   15 secs*3.333  =          50 secs

> > Jupiter  15 secs*5.333  =          1 min-20 secs

> > Mercury15 sec*5.667  =          1 min-25 secs

> > Rahu    15 secs*6.000  =          1 min-30 secs

> > Saturn 15 secs*6.333  =          1 min-35 secs

> > Venus   15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

> >  

> > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st

child

> is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub

of

> son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds

> the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and

> 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three

sub-

> subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of

> differences in the twins.

> > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

> >  

> > Sun      15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

> > Kethu  15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> > Mars    15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> > Moon   15 secs*11.111=         2 min-47 secs

> > Jupiter  15 secs*17.778=         4 min-27 secs

> > Mercury15 sec*18..889=          4 min-43 secs

> > Rahu    15 secs*20..000=         5 min-00 secs

> > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=         5 min-17 secs

> > Venus   15 secs*22.222=         5 min-33 secs

> > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun,

Kethu

> or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth

> is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change

and

> there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

> >  

> > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will

> bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall

> not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

> >  

> > Dr. Luther

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > tranquas <tranquas@>

> >

> > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM

> > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> >

> >

> > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI

> >

> > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a

sub

> > apprx..2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx.

> 54

> > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.

> >

> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx.

2

> > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna

sub

> > lord/sub sub lord.

> >

> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different

> > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since

moon

> > stays long in a star/sub.

> >

> > Kindly seek your valuable advice

> >

> > @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " <punitp@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lajmi ji,

> > >

> > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I

> believe

> > that

> > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't

> > have any

> > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum

> is

> > divided on

> > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I

> > just wanted

> > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > >

> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi

> > <lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,

> > > > Allow me to refer you to a

> > recent book

> > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*

> > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples

> > have been

> > > > given by the author of this article...*

> > > > * ** Perusal of the above will

> > remove all

> > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble

> > opinion.It has been

> > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the

> time

> > of

> > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*

> > > > * * Further to the mehod of

> > BTRT that I

> > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with

> > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW

> > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the

> > planetary and

> > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

> > > > The method I use is advocated

> > for

> > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the

> exact

> > TOB...

> > > > *KSK shared the SECRET...from

> > Linda

> > > > Goodman's book :*

> > > > " *A woman can conceive only

> > during

> > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the

SUN

> > and the MOON

> > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB

of

> > the* *Female

> > > > in question*... "

> > > > With best wishes,

> > > > L.Y.Rao.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey <punitp@>

> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM

> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tranquas ji,

> > > >

> > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the

> accuracy

> > of this

> > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file

> > section.

> > > >

> > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and

some

> > other senior

> > > > members don't believe this method.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo

> > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo

> > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas (AT) (DOT)

> > com<tranquas@ ...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > >> Respected seniors,

> > > >>

> > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:

> > > >>

> > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who

> born

> > in a

> > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB.

But

> > > >> between the twins there is much much difference in all

> > activities.

> > > >>

> > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY

> DIFFERENT

> > AND

> > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.

> > > >>

> > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND

> SUB

> > LORD

> > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

> > > >>

> > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a

> > given

> > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna

> > tarus,time

> > > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42

> to

> > 8.59)

> > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am,

20.53@moon/ven,

> > here it

> > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub

is

> > coming

> > > >> at 9..07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon

> > > >>

> > > >> If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on

this

> > moon

> > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is

> much

> > time

> > > >> gap.

> > > >>

> > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK

> > > >> pl.advice

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click

> > > >

> > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_

4/*http:/ /in.promos.

> .c

> > om/address>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Tin Win and Luther

 

As I told in my earlier mail, even an entry level astrology student knows that there is no change in moon position for about 5 minutes interval of twin birth.

 

In the K.P.Readers, it is told that Mr.KSK has done a research at the end of the year 1965 and came to know that there is no change in moon position for the interval of twin birth. My question is whether he was not aware of this before 1965?

 

There is a contravercial statement in the Readers. In the Reader III, in one place it is said that the research was conducted at the end of 1965 and in the other place it is said that the research was conducted during 1967. Which is correct. 1965 or 1967?

 

Whether the KSK group is fooling us?

 

Dhanabalan

--- On Thu, 8/7/08, tw853 <tw853 wrote:

tw853 <tw853 Re: BTR CONFUSION Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:06 AM

 

 

This a practicall and useful contribution for the group other than the endless speculative sayings for just the sake of saying.It is not to take only word by word but to get the overall idea. In the case of Lagna and Moon, Lagna is more precise than Moon for differentation in prediction for one and another native whether in the case of twin or single, since Lagna is moving and making changes the star and sub (which are used in KP) of the cusps much faster than Moon. Pl see the uploaded "picture 19" in the file section, a short Forward note in Manu's Astrological Tables for All. For example, native born on 06-06-1968, "12:54" IST, 11N26, 76E53 (courtesy of Vijay Kumar, Job Change, KP E-Zine June 2008), Sid Time 05:30:37 (for TOB 12:54IST), New KPA 23:19:34, by changing TOB only 1 minute to "12:55" IST (Sid Time 05:31:37), the subs changes for the 7 cusps as shown below: Plt-12:54-12:

55IST2nd-Sat---Mercury3rd-Moon--Mars4th-Sat---Ketu5th-Mars--Rahu7th-Sun---Moon8th-Sat---Ketu10th-Sat--MercuryThe sub lord of the Moon is the same Mercury and also the same for Lagna, i..e. Rahu. It is to have an wider view about the changes not only in Lagna and Moon but also in other cusps. (Picture 19) Moon is doing the same job of giving the dasa balance at birth whether it is taken as the first house or not.@gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sir,> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion.. I may please be excused for the same.> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.> > 7th August 2008> > 8-06 Am

Ascendant Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> 8-07 AM Ascendant Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> 8-08 AM Ascendant Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub. > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -> Sun gets an arc of

40.0 Mins> Kethu 46.7 Mins> Mars 46.7 Mins> Moon 66.7 Mins> Jupiter

106.7 Mins> Mercury 113.3 Mins> Rahu 120.0 Mins> Saturn 126.7 Mins> Venus

133.3 Mins> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> Sun gets an arc of 2.000 Mins> Kethu 2.333 Mins> Mars

2.333 Mins> Moon 3.333 Mins> Jupiter 5.333 Mins> Mercury 5.667 Mins> Rahu

6.000 Mins> Saturn 6.333 Mins> Venus 6.667 Mins> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time..> > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> Therefore in 1 minute it covers = 1800/120 =

15 minutes of arc.> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.> Let us examine Sun¢s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -> Sun 15 secs*2.000 = 30 secs> Kethu 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs> Mars 15 secs*2.333 = 35 secs> Moon 15 secs*3.333 = 50 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 = 1 min-20 secs> Mercury15 sec*5.667

= 1 min-25 secs> Rahu 15 secs*6.000 = 1 min-30 secs> Saturn 15 secs*6.333 = 1 min-35 secs> Venus 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs> > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.>

> Sun 15 secs*6.667 = 1 min-40 secs> Kethu 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs> Mars 15 secs*7.778 = 1 min-56 secs> Moon 15 secs*11.111= 2 min-47 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*17.778= 4 min-27 secs> Mercury15 sec*18..889= 4 min-43 secs> Rahu 15 secs*20..000= 5 min-00 secs> Saturn 15 secs*21.111= 5 min-17 secs> Venus 15 secs*22.222= 5 min-33

secs> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.> > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> > Dr. Luther> > > > > > tranquas <tranquas@.. .>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > My strong doubt is

moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub > apprx..2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub > lord/sub sub lord.> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon > stays long in a star/sub.> > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > @gro ups..com, "Punit Pandey" <punitp@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe > that> > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't > have

any> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is > divided on> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I > just wanted> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > <lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > Allow me to refer you to a > recent book> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples > have been> > > given by the author of this article...*> > > * ** Perusal of the above will > remove all> > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my

humble > opinion.It has been> > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time > of> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > * * Further to the mehod of > BTRT that I> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the > planetary and> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level....> > > The method I use is advocated > for> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact > TOB...> > > *KSK shared the SECRET...from > Linda> > > Goodman's book :*> > > "*A woman can conceive only > during> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN > and the MOON> >

> are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of > the* *Female> > > in question*... "> > > With best wishes,> > > L.Y.Rao.> > >> > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey <punitp@>> > > @gro ups.com> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > >> > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > >> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy > of this> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file > section.> > >> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some > other senior> > > members don't believe this method.> > >> >

> Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas (AT) (DOT) > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > wrote:> > >> > >> Respected seniors,> > >>> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > >>> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when

he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born > in a> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> > >> between the twins there is much much difference in all > activities.> > >>> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT > AND> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > >>> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB > LORD> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > >>> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a > given> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna > tarus,time> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to > 8.59)> > >> (At7.42am,

1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, > here it> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is > coming> > >> at 9..07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > >>> > >> If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > moon> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much > time> > >> gap.> > >>> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > >> pl.advice> > >>> > >>> > >> > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> om/address>>

> >> > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Pl don't worry and no need to be crazy for accuracy. This is a

demonstration of the exceptional case. Except in the border line

cases, the star and sub, which are mainly used in KP, do not

generally change whether KP Old or New or Straight Line or Lahiri

ayanamsa is used, applying any commonly used SW, free or paid.

 

Astrology is " Divine " Science.

 

 

, " tranquas " <tranquas wrote:

>

> Respected TW853 SIR and all hounarable members,

>

> Thank you for ur views and directions. Preciously that is what my

> STRONG doubt in judging or predicting the results. Within not

even

> a min. difference the BHAVAS sub lord is changed and in certain

> cases even the position of lords in a bhava is also changes. In

that

> case though a person is very sound on multi system of predictions

> tend to say based on this which will be diametrically opposite

> results. Hence it has to be fundamendally ensured first that a

chart

> is prepared or in multiple way verified the very efficacy of its

> substance. EX.a sub may indicate 8/12, where as the same sub or the

> other actual sub might actually indicate 7/11 etc, etc.......

>

> PL. kindly advice on this major anamoly which not only helps a

few,

> THE VERY EFFECTIVENESS OF ASSISTING OR MANY INNOCENTs LIVES

> DIRECTION CHANGES IN A POSITVE WAY, who takes the predictions or

> interpretaion as the final or the destiny though THE SATHYAM is in

> other way.

>

> with high regards.

>

>

> , " tw853 " <tw853@> wrote:

> >

> > This a practicall and useful contribution for the group other

than

> > the endless speculative sayings for just the sake of saying.

> >

> > It is not to take only word by word but to get the overall idea.

> In

> > the case of Lagna and Moon, Lagna is more precise than Moon for

> > differentation in prediction for one and another native whether

in

> > the case of twin or single, since Lagna is moving and making

> changes

> > the star and sub (which are used in KP) of the cusps much faster

> > than Moon. Pl see the uploaded " picture 19 " in the file section,

a

> > short Forward note in Manu's Astrological Tables for All.

> >

> > For example, native born on 06-06-1968, " 12:54 " IST, 11N26,

76E53

> > (courtesy of Vijay Kumar, Job Change, KP E-Zine June 2008), Sid

> Time

> > 05:30:37 (for TOB 12:54IST), New KPA 23:19:34, by changing TOB

> only

> > 1 minute to " 12:55 " IST (Sid Time 05:31:37), the subs changes

for

> > the 7 cusps as shown below:

> >

> > Plt-12:54-12:55IST

> > 2nd-Sat---Mercury

> > 3rd-Moon--Mars

> > 4th-Sat---Ketu

> > 5th-Mars--Rahu

> > 7th-Sun---Moon

> > 8th-Sat---Ketu

> > 10th-Sat--Mercury

> >

> > The sub lord of the Moon is the same Mercury and also the same

for

> > Lagna, i.e. Rahu. It is to have an wider view about the changes

> not

> > only in Lagna and Moon but also in other cusps. (Picture 19)

Moon

> is

> > doing the same job of giving the dasa balance at birth whether

it

> is

> > taken as the first house or not.

> >

> >

> > , Luther Rath <rathluther@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sir,

> > > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share

my

> > opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

> > > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to

the

> > division of sign, star and subs.

> > >  

> > > 7th August 2008

> > >  

> > > 8-06 Am          Ascendant        Leo 26-27-56  Sun-Venus-Kethu

> > > 8-07 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-42-07  Sun-Sun-Sun

> > > 8-08 AM         Ascendant        Leo 26-59-19  Sun-Sun-Sun

> > > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

> > > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara

> > Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted

> > uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari

> system.

> > So also the sub-sub.

> > >  

> > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as

follows: -

> > > Sun gets an arc of                     40.0 Mins

> > > Kethu                                       46.7 Mins

> > > Mars                                        46.7 Mins

> > > Moon                                       66.7 Mins

> > > Jupiter                                    106.7 Mins

> > > Mercury                                 113.3 Mins

> > > Rahu                                      120.0 Mins

> > > Saturn                                    126.7 Mins

> > > Venus                                     133.3 Mins

> > > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3

minuts.

> > So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison

> to

> > zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

> > > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

> > > Sun gets an arc of                     2.000 Mins

> > > Kethu                                       2.333 Mins

> > > Mars                                        2.333 Mins

> > > Moon                                       3.333 Mins

> > > Jupiter                                      5.333 Mins

> > > Mercury                                   5.667 Mins

> > > Rahu                                        6.000 Mins

> > > Saturn                                      6.333 Mins

> > > Venus                                       6.667 Mins

> > > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

> > > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

> > > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

> > >  

> > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

> > > Therefore in 1 minute it covers              =  1800/120 = 15

> > minutes of arc.

> > > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60

> > seconds.

> > > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

> > > Let us examine Sun¢s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

> > > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be

as

> > follows: -

> > > Sun      15 secs*2.000  =          30 secs

> > > Kethu  15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> > > Mars    15 secs*2.333  =          35 secs

> > > Moon   15 secs*3.333  =          50 secs

> > > Jupiter  15 secs*5.333  =          1 min-20 secs

> > > Mercury15 sec*5.667  =          1 min-25 secs

> > > Rahu    15 secs*6.000  =          1 min-30 secs

> > > Saturn 15 secs*6.333  =          1 min-35 secs

> > > Venus   15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

> > >  

> > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st

> child

> > is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-

sub

> of

> > son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30

seconds

> > the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min

and

> > 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three

> sub-

> > subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of

> > differences in the twins.

> > > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

> > >  

> > > Sun      15 secs*6.667  =          1 min-40 secs

> > > Kethu  15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> > > Mars    15 secs*7.778  =          1 min-56 secs

> > > Moon   15 secs*11.111=         2 min-47 secs

> > > Jupiter  15 secs*17.778=         4 min-27 secs

> > > Mercury15 sec*18..889=          4 min-43 secs

> > > Rahu    15 secs*20..000=         5 min-00 secs

> > > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=         5 min-17 secs

> > > Venus   15 secs*22.222=         5 min-33 secs

> > > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun,

> Kethu

> > or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If

birth

> > is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change

> and

> > there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

> > >  

> > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation

will

> > bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon

shall

> > not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

> > >  

> > > Dr. Luther

> > >  

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > tranquas <tranquas@>

> > >

> > > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM

> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI

> > >

> > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a

> sub

> > > apprx..2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be

apprx.

> > 54

> > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.

> > >

> > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of

apprx.

> 2

> > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna

> sub

> > > lord/sub sub lord.

> > >

> > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has

different

> > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since

> moon

> > > stays long in a star/sub.

> > >

> > > Kindly seek your valuable advice

> > >

> > > @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " <punitp@>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lajmi ji,

> > > >

> > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I

> > believe

> > > that

> > > > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I

don't

> > > have any

> > > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the

forum

> > is

> > > divided on

> > > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method.

I

> > > just wanted

> > > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi

> > > <lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,

> > > > > Allow me to refer you to a

> > > recent book

> > > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*

> > > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 -

55,examples

> > > have been

> > > > > given by the author of this article...*

> > > > > * ** Perusal of the above will

> > > remove all

> > > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble

> > > opinion.It has been

> > > > > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at

the

> > time

> > > of

> > > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*

> > > > > * * Further to the mehod of

> > > BTRT that I

> > > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with

> > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW

> > > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the

> > > planetary and

> > > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

> > > > > The method I use is advocated

> > > for

> > > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the

> > exact

> > > TOB...

> > > > > *KSK shared the SECRET...from

> > > Linda

> > > > > Goodman's book :*

> > > > > " *A woman can conceive only

> > > during

> > > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the

> SUN

> > > and the MOON

> > > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB

> of

> > > the* *Female

> > > > > in question*... "

> > > > > With best wishes,

> > > > > L.Y.Rao.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Punit Pandey <punitp@>

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM

> > > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Tranquas ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the

> > accuracy

> > > of this

> > > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the

file

> > > section.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and

> some

> > > other senior

> > > > > members don't believe this method.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo

> > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo

> > > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas <tranquas (AT) (DOT)

> > > com<tranquas@ ...>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >> Respected seniors,

> > > > >>

> > > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART

who

> > born

> > > in a

> > > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND

SUB.

> But

> > > > >> between the twins there is much much difference in all

> > > activities.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY

> > DIFFERENT

> > > AND

> > > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD

AND

> > SUB

> > > LORD

> > > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for

a

> > > given

> > > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna

> > > tarus,time

> > > > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time

7.42

> > to

> > > 8.59)

> > > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am,

> 20.53@moon/ven,

> > > here it

> > > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun

sub

> is

> > > coming

> > > > >> at 9..07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon

> > > > >>

> > > > >> If we adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on

> this

> > > moon

> > > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is

> > much

> > > time

> > > > >> gap.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK

> > > > >> pl.advice

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click

> > > > >

> > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_

> 4/*http:/ /in.promos.

> > .c

> > > om/address>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart analysis?.

Thanks and regards,

tw

 

 

Food for Thought

Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III or the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji says, "I shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you can rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to the research scholars."

 

Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the correct time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in the labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother a very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that stage neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical card was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken as correct time of birth…

-K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)

 

Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been discussed in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already mentioned about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet to understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first (when this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of the Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the umbilical cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But the question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in such situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons and causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking any chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will come to your help.

GOOD LUCK

K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)

, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan wrote:>> Dear sri Luther Ji,> > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ? God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath, it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or 4th breath time. who knows except the God.> > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time especially in KP system.> The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the prediction comes true> I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> , > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > Regards.> > Naidu KP> K. P. Naidu,> Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> Nowroji Road,> Maharanipeta,> VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther wrote:> Luther Rath rathluther Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > This is only an example. > Supposing : -> X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun>  > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> Because: ->            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00>            Ascendant falls at       26-42-07> Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.>  > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.>  > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.> That means: -> Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.>  > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?> There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures. >  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > Dear Sir,> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.>  > 7th August 2008>  > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub. >  > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -> Sun gets an arc of                    40.0 Mins> Kethu                                      46.7 Mins> Mars                                      46.7 Mins> Moon                                      66.7 Mins> Jupiter                                  106.7 Mins> Mercury                               113.3 Mins> Rahu                                    120.0 Mins> Saturn                                  126.7 Mins> Venus                                   133.3 Mins> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> Sun gets an arc of                    2.000 Mins> Kethu                                      2.333 Mins> Mars                                       2.333 Mins> Moon                                      3.333 Mins> Jupiter                                    5.333 Mins> Mercury                                 5.667 Mins> Rahu                                      6.000 Mins> Saturn                                    6.333 Mins> Venus                                     6.667 Mins> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.>  > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.> Let us examine Sun’s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -> Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs>  > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.>  > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.>  > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.>  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> @gro ups..com> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub > lord/sub sub lord.> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon > stays long in a star/sub.> > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe > that> >> selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't > have any> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is > divided on> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I > just wanted> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > Allow me to refer you to a > recent book> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples > have been> > > given by the author of this article...*> > > * ** Perusal of the above will > remove all> > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > opinion.It has been> > >> consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time > of> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > * * Further to the mehod of > BTRT that I> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the > planetary and> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > The method I use is advocated > for> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact > TOB...> > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > Linda> > > Goodman's book :*> > > "*A woman can conceive only > during> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN > and the MOON> > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of > the* *Female> > > in question*... "> > > With best wishes,> > >> L.Y.Rao.> > >> > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > @gro ups.com> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > >> > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > >> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy > of this> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file > section.> > >> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some > other senior> > > members don't believe this method.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > wrote:> > >> > >> Respected seniors,> > >>> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > >>> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born > in a> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> > >>> between the twins there is much much difference in all > activities.> > >>> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT > AND> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > >>> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB > LORD> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > >>> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a > given> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna > tarus,time> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to > 8.59)> > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, > here it> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is > coming> > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > >>> > >> If we> adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > moon> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much > time> > >> gap.> > >>> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > >> pl.advice> > >>> > >>> > >> > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> om/address>> > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. Go to http://in.promos./groups/>

[Guest guest]

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah Hari Om,

Dear TWji,

Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I did not find a single example of reading a chart where in rectifcation is undertaken before chart reading.

Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then chart should be casted,How many follow it?

I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct check but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.

Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where he rectified the chart and published article about events in her life.( ref A & A July 1971)

He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.

( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified Birth time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of Prenatal epoch theory)

He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for interested students,I woked it out .with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the BT is 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.

There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.

with regards

OM TATSAT------------------------Swami_RCS

-----------------------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."--

 

-

tw853

Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM

Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

Dear All,

In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart analysis?.

Thanks and regards,

tw

 

 

Food for Thought

 

Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III or the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji says, "I shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you can rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to the research scholars."

 

Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the correct time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in the labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother a very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that stage neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical card was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken as correct time of birth…

-K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)

 

Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been discussed in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already mentioned about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet to understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first (when this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of the Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the umbilical cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But the question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in such situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons and causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking any chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will come to your help.

GOOD LUCK

K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)

, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan wrote:>> Dear sri Luther Ji,> > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ? God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath, it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or 4th breath time. who knows except the God.> > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time especially in KP system.> The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the prediction comes true> I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> , > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > Regards.> > Naidu KP> K. P. Naidu,> Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> Nowroji Road,> Maharanipeta,> VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther wrote:> Luther Rath rathluther Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > This is only an example. > Supposing : -> X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun>  > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> Because: ->            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00>            Ascendant falls at       26-42-07> Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.>  > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.>  > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.> That means: -> Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.>  > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?> There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures. >  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > Dear Sir,> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.>  > 7th August 2008>  > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub. >  > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -> Sun gets an arc of                    40.0 Mins> Kethu                                      46.7 Mins> Mars                                      46.7 Mins> Moon                                      66.7 Mins> Jupiter                                  106.7 Mins> Mercury                               113.3 Mins> Rahu                                    120.0 Mins> Saturn                                  126.7 Mins> Venus                                   133.3 Mins> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> Sun gets an arc of                    2.000 Mins> Kethu                                      2.333 Mins> Mars                                       2.333 Mins> Moon                                      3.333 Mins> Jupiter                                    5.333 Mins> Mercury                                 5.667 Mins> Rahu                                      6.000 Mins> Saturn                                    6.333 Mins> Venus                                     6.667 Mins> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.>  > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.> Let us examine Sun’s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -> Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs>  > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.>  > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.>  > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.>  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> @gro ups..com> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub > lord/sub sub lord.> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon > stays long in a star/sub.> > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe > that> >> selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't > have any> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is > divided on> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I > just wanted> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > Allow me to refer you to a > recent book> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples > have been> > > given by the author of this article...*> > > * ** Perusal of the above will > remove all> > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > opinion.It has been> > >> consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time > of> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > * * Further to the mehod of > BTRT that I> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the > planetary and> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > The method I use is advocated > for> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact > TOB...> > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > Linda> > > Goodman's book :*> > > "*A woman can conceive only > during> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN > and the MOON> > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of > the* *Female> > > in question*... "> > > With best wishes,> > >> L.Y.Rao.> > >> > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > @gro ups.com> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > >> > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > >> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy > of this> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file > section.> > >> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some > other senior> > > members don't believe this method.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > wrote:> > >> > >> Respected seniors,> > >>> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > >>> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born > in a> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> > >>> between the twins there is much much difference in all > activities.> > >>> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT > AND> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > >>> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB > LORD> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > >>> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a > given> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna > tarus,time> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to > 8.59)> > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, > here it> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is > coming> > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > >>> > >> If we> adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > moon> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much > time> > >> gap.> > >>> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > >> pl.advice> > >>> > >>> > >> > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> om/address>> > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. Go to http://in.promos./groups/>

[Guest guest]

Dear Swamiji,

I regularly follow it but do not mention it...checking up on my e-mails will surely confirm this...

I agree with you,it is a very good practise...as it helps to give a more accurate prediction....

With best wishes,

L.Y.Rao.

 

swami <swami Sent: Thursday, 14 August, 2008 3:27:44 PMRe: Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah Hari Om,

Dear TWji,

Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I did not find a single example of reading a chart where in rectifcation is undertaken before chart reading.

Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then chart should be casted,How many follow it?

I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct check but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.

Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where he rectified the chart and published article about events in her life.( ref A & A July 1971)

He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.

( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified Birth time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of Prenatal epoch theory)

He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for interested students,I woked it out .with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the BT is 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.

There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.

with regards

OM TATSAT------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Swami_RCS

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --

 

-

tw853

@gro ups.com

Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM

Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

Dear All,

In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart analysis?.

Thanks and regards,

tw

 

 

Food for Thought

 

Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III or the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji says, "I shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you can rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to the research scholars."

 

Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the correct time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in the labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother a very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that stage neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical card was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken as correct time of birth…

-K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)

 

Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been discussed in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already mentioned about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet to understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first (when this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of the Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the umbilical cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only

and anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But the question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in such situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons and causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking any chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will come to your help.

GOOD LUCK

K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)

@gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@. ..> wrote:>> Dear sri Luther Ji,> > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ? God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath, it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or

3rd or 4th breath time. who knows except the God.> > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time especially in KP system.> The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the prediction comes true> I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> , > To

avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > Regards.> > Naidu KP> K. P. Naidu,> Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> Nowroji Road,> Maharanipeta,> VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@. .. wrote:> Luther Rath rathluther@. ..> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> @gro ups.com> Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > This is only an example. > Supposing : -> X is born at     8-07 AM      Â

Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun>  > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> Because: ->            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00>            Ascendant falls at       26-42-07> Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.>  > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of

zodiac.> Â > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.> That means: -> Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> Â > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp

relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?> There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures. > Â > Dr. Luther> Â > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > Dear Sir,> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star

and subs.>  > 7th August 2008>  > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub. >  > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different

planets are as follows: -> Sun gets an arc of                    40.0 Mins> Kethu                                      46.7 Mins> Mars                                      46.7 Mins> Moon

                                     66.7 Mins> Jupiter                                  106.7 Mins> Mercury                               113.3 Mins>

Rahu                                    120.0 Mins> Saturn                                  126.7 Mins> Venus                                   133.3 Mins> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus

gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> Sun gets an arc of                    2.000 Mins> Kethu                                      2.333 Mins>

Mars                                       2.333 Mins> Moon                                      3.333 Mins> Jupiter                                    5.333

Mins> Mercury                                 5.667 Mins> Rahu                                      6.000 Mins> Saturn                                    6.333 Mins>

Venus                                     6.667 Mins> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.>  > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.> Let us examine Sun’s sub that has

smallest zone in zodiac.> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -> Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> Rahu   15

secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs>  > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.>  > Sun     15

secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5

min-17 secs> Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.>  > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.>  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> @gro ups..com> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR.

PANDEY JI> > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub > lord/sub sub lord.> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon > stays long in a star/sub.> > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe > that> >> selection of BTR method is astrologer's

preference and I don't > have any> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is > divided on> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I > just wanted> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > Allow me to refer you to a > recent book> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples > have been> > > given by the author of this article...*> > > * ** Perusal of the above will > remove all> > > myths and

prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > opinion.It has been> > >> consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time > of> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > * * Further to the mehod of > BTRT that I> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the > planetary and> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > The method I use is advocated > for> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact > TOB...> > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > Linda> > > Goodman's book :*> > > "*A woman can conceive only > during> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when

the SUN > and the MOON> > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of > the* *Female> > > in question*... "> > > With best wishes,> > >> L.Y.Rao.> > >> > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > @gro ups.com> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > >> > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > >> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy > of this> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file > section.> > >> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some > other senior> > > members don't believe this

method.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > wrote:> > >> > >> Respected seniors,> > >>> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > >>> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born > in a> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> > >>> between the twins there is much much

difference in all > activities.> > >>> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT > AND> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > >>> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB > LORD> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > >>> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a > given> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna > tarus,time> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to > 8.59)> > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, > here it> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is > coming> > >> at 9.07am only, at that

time moon is in sun/moon> > >>> > >> If we> adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > moon> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much > time> > >> gap.> > >>> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > >> pl.advice> > >>> > >>> > >> > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> om/address>> > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/>

 

Did you know? You can CHAT without downloading messenger. Click here

[Guest guest]

Dear Swami

Can you explain to the members how to rectify the birth time using vedic methods.

 

Dhanabalan--- On Thu, 8/14/08, swami <swami wrote:

swami <swamiRe: Re: BTR CONFUSION Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 9:57 AM

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah Hari Om,

Dear TWji,

Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I did not find a single example of reading a chart where in rectifcation is undertaken before chart reading.

Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then chart should be casted,How many follow it?

I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct check but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.

Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where he rectified the chart and published article about events in her life.( ref A & A July 1971)

He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.

( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified Birth time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of Prenatal epoch theory)

He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for interested students,I woked it out .with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the BT is 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.

There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.

with regards

OM TATSAT------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Swami_RCS

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --

 

-

tw853

@gro ups.com

Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM

Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

Dear All,

In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart analysis?.

Thanks and regards,

tw

 

 

Food for Thought

 

Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III or the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji says, "I shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you can rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to the research scholars."

 

Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the correct time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in the labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother a very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that stage neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical card was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken as correct time of birth…

-K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)

 

Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been discussed in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already mentioned about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet to understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first (when this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of the Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the umbilical cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only

and anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But the question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in such situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons and causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking any chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will come to your help.

GOOD LUCK

K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)

@gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@. ..> wrote:>> Dear sri Luther Ji,> > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ? God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath, it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd

or 3rd or 4th breath time. who knows except the God.> > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME..> >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time especially in KP system..> The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the prediction comes true> I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> , > To

avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > Regards.> > Naidu KP> K. P. Naidu,> Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> Nowroji Road,> Maharanipeta,> VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@. .. wrote:> Luther Rath rathluther@. ...> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> @gro ups.com> Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > This is only an example. > Supposing : -> X is born at     8-07 AM      Â

Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun>  > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> Because: ->            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00>            Ascendant falls at       26-42-07> Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.>  > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of

zodiac.> Â > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.> That means: -> Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> Â > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp

relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?> There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures. > Â > Dr. Luther> Â > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > Dear Sir,> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star

and subs.>  > 7th August 2008>  > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub. >  > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different

planets are as follows: -> Sun gets an arc of                    40.0 Mins> Kethu                                      46.7 Mins> Mars                                      46.7 Mins> Moon

                                     66.7 Mins> Jupiter                                  106.7 Mins> Mercury                               113.3 Mins>

Rahu                                    120.0 Mins> Saturn                                  126.7 Mins> Venus                                   133.3 Mins> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus

gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> Sun gets an arc of                    2.000 Mins> Kethu                                      2.333 Mins>

Mars                                       2.333 Mins> Moon                                      3.333 Mins> Jupiter                                    5.333

Mins> Mercury                                 5.667 Mins> Rahu                                      6.000 Mins> Saturn                                    6.333 Mins>

Venus                                     6.667 Mins> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.>  > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.> Let us examine Sun’s sub that has

smallest zone in zodiac.> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -> Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> Rahu   15

secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs>  > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.>  > Sun     15

secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5

min-17 secs> Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.>  > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.>  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> @gro ups..com> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR.

PANDEY JI> > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub > lord/sub sub lord.> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon > stays long in a star/sub.> > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe > that> >> selection of BTR method is astrologer's

preference and I don't > have any> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is > divided on> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I > just wanted> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > Allow me to refer you to a > recent book> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples > have been> > > given by the author of this article...*> > > * ** Perusal of the above will > remove all> > > myths and

prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > opinion.It has been> > >> consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time > of> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > * * Further to the mehod of > BTRT that I> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the > planetary and> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > The method I use is advocated > for> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact > TOB...> > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > Linda> > > Goodman's book :*> > > "*A woman can conceive only > during> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when

the SUN > and the MOON> > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of > the* *Female> > > in question*... "> > > With best wishes,> > >> L.Y.Rao.> > >> > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > @gro ups.com> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > >> > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > >> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy > of this> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file > section.> > >> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some > other senior> > > members don't believe this

method.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > wrote:> > >> > >> Respected seniors,> > >>> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > >>> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born > in a> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> > >>> between the twins there is much much

difference in all > activities.> > >>> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT > AND> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > >>> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB > LORD> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > >>> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a > given> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna > tarus,time> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to > 8.59)> > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, > here it> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is > coming> > >> at 9.07am only, at that

time moon is in sun/moon> > >>> > >> If we> adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > moon> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much > time> > >> gap.> > >>> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > >> pl..advice> > >>> > >>> > >> > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> om/address>> > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/>

[Guest guest]

Dear Swami ji,

 

1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR.

 

2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too far

from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

tw

 

 

, " swami " <swami wrote:

>

>

> || Om Gurave Namah ||

> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah

> Hari Om,

> Dear TWji,

> Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I did

not find a single example of reading a chart where in rectifcation

is undertaken before chart reading.

> Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then

chart should be casted,How many follow it?

> I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct check

but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.

> Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where he

rectified the chart and published article about events in her life.(

ref A & A July 1971)

> He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.

> ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified Birth

time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of

Prenatal epoch theory)

> He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for

interested students,I woked it out .with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the BT is

11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.

> There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.

> with regards

> OM TATSAT

> ------------------------

> Swami_RCS

> -----------------------

> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being

who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "

> -

-

>

> -

> tw853

>

> Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM

> Re: BTR CONFUSION

>

>

>

> Dear All,

>

> In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that

Guruji KSK " first " BTRed and only after that made the chart

analysis?.

>

> Thanks and regards,

>

> tw

>

>

>

>

> Food for Thought

>

>

> Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III or

the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji says, " I

shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you can

rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to the

research scholars. "

>

>

> Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an

established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time

of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be

followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is

also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the correct

time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in the

labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his

attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother a

very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that stage

neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical card

was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the

first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken as

correct time of birth.

>

> -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)

>

>

>

> Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to

the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have

already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been discussed

in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already mentioned

about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet to

understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of

birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first (when

this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by Dr.Satyaprakash

Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of the

Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the umbilical

cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these

conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and

anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But the

question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in such

situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons and

causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking any

chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will

come to your help.

>

> GOOD LUCK

>

> K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)

>

>

>

>

> , " K. P. Naidu " <konathalan@>

wrote:

> >

> > Dear sri Luther Ji,

> >

> > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance

of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based

on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time

upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be

important in divisional charts D-60 and above.

> >

> > Lot of discussion took place in this group on " Birth Time is

the time of new born's 1st breath "  Is the above Birth Time

corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ?

God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room

with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath,

it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement

of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or 4th

breath time. who knows except the God.

> >

> > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the

life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the

CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.

> >

> > Â In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on

successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not

confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said

Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry,

normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the

native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time

especially in KP system.

> > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the

prediction comes true

> > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical

aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and

conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.

> > ,

> > To avoid all the above problems, MOSTÂ of the KP astrologers

are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.

> >

> > Regards.

> >

> > Naidu KP

> > K. P. Naidu,

> > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,

> > Nowroji Road,

> > Maharanipeta,

> > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.

> > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.

> >

> > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:

> > Luther Rath rathluther@

> > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION

> >

> > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > In continuation to previous message: -

> > This is only an example.

> > Supposing : -

> > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant   Â

   Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun

> > Â

> > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub

> > Because: -

> >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00

> >            Ascendant falls at       26-42-

07

> > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and

not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of

none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body

mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds.

Hope one and all agree to it.

> > Â

> > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-

sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.

> > Â

> > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.

> > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2

seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant

was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the

sub-sub from sun to Moon.

> > That means: -

> > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.

> > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.

> > Â

> > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.

> > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be

8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give

prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should

rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?

> > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of

the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation,

Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch

relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?

> > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one

minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are

vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an

Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the

junctures.

> > Â

> > Dr. Luther

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Luther Rath rathluther >

> > @gro ups.com

> > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM

> > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Sir,

> > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share

my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

> > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to

the division of sign, star and subs.

> > Â

> > 7th August 2008

> > Â

> > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-

56Â Sun-Venus-Kethu

> > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07Â

Sun-Sun-Sun

> > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19Â

Sun-Sun-Sun

> > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

> > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara

Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted

uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system.

So also the sub-sub.

> > Â

> > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as

follows: -

> > Sun gets an arc of                   Â

40.0 Mins

> > Kethu                            Â

         46.7 Mins

> > Mars                            Â

         46.7 Mins

> > Moon                             Â

        66.7 Mins

> > Jupiter                          Â

       106.7 Mins

> > Mercury                          Â

    113.3 Mins

> > Rahu                            Â

       120.0 Mins

> > Saturn                           Â

      126.7 Mins

> > Venus                           Â

       133.3 Mins

> > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3

minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in

comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

> > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

> > Sun gets an arc of                   Â

2.000 Mins

> > Kethu                            Â

         2.333 Mins

> > Mars                            Â

          2.333 Mins

> > Moon                             Â

        3.333 Mins

> > Jupiter                          Â

         5.333 Mins

> > Mercury                          Â

      5.667 Mins

> > Rahu                            Â

         6.000 Mins

> > Saturn                           Â

        6.333 Mins

> > Venus                           Â

         6.667 Mins

> > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

> > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

> > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

> > Â

> > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

> > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             =Â

1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.

> > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60

seconds.

> > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

> > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

> > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be

as follows: -

> > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs

> > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs

> > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs

> > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs

> > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs

> > Mercury15 sec*5.667Â =Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1 min-25 secs

> > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs

> > Saturn 15 secs*6.333Â =Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1 min-35 secs

> > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs

> > Â

> > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st

child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-

sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30

seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1

min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or

three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a

lot of differences in the twins.

> > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

> > Â

> > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs

> > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs

> > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs

> > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs

> > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs

> > Mercury15 sec*18.889=Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 4 min-43 secs

> > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs

> > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 5 min-17 secs

> > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs

> > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun,

Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If

birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must

change and there will be difference between the twins in many

aspects.

> > Â

> > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation

will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon

shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

> > Â

> > Dr. Luther

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > tranquas tranquas >

> > @gro ups..com

> > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM

> > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI

> >

> > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a

sub

> > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be

apprx. 54

> > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.

> >

> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of

apprx. 2

> > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna

sub

> > lord/sub sub lord.

> >

> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has

different

> > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since

moon

> > stays long in a star/sub.

> >

> > Kindly seek your valuable advice

> >

> > @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " punitp@

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lajmi ji,

> > >

> > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I

believe

> > that

> > >

> > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't

> > have any

> > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the

forum is

> > divided on

> > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method.

I

> > just wanted

> > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > >

> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi

> > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,

> > > > Allow me to refer you to a

> > recent book

> > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*

> > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 -

55,examples

> > have been

> > > > given by the author of this article...*

> > > > * ** Perusal of the above will

> > remove all

> > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble

> > opinion.It has been

> > > >

> > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the

time

> > of

> > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*

> > > > * * Further to the mehod of

> > BTRT that I

> > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with

> > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW

> > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the

> > planetary and

> > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

> > > > The method I use is advocated

> > for

> > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the

exact

> > TOB...

> > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from

> > Linda

> > > > Goodman's book :*

> > > > " *A woman can conceive only

> > during

> > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the

SUN

> > and the MOON

> > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB

of

> > the* *Female

> > > > in question*... "

> > > > With best wishes,

> > > >

> > L.Y.Rao.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey punitp@

> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM

> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tranquas ji,

> > > >

> > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the

accuracy

> > of this

> > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the

file

> > section.

> > > >

> > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and

some

> > other senior

> > > > members don't believe this method.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo

> > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo

> > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT)

> > com<tranquas@ ...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > >> Respected seniors,

> > > >>

> > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:

> > > >>

> > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART

who born

> > in a

> > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND

SUB. But

> > > >>

> > between the twins there is much much difference in all

> > activities.

> > > >>

> > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY

DIFFERENT

> > AND

> > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.

> > > >>

> > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD

AND SUB

> > LORD

> > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

> > > >>

> > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for

a

> > given

> > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna

> > tarus,time

> > > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time

7.42 to

> > 8.59)

> > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am,

20.53@moon/ven,

> > here it

> > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun

sub is

> > coming

> > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon

> > > >>

> > > >> If we

> > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this

> > moon

> > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is

much

> > time

> > > >> gap.

> > > >>

> > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK

> > > >> pl.advice

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click

> > > >

> > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_

4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c

> > om/address>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one

roof. Go to http://in.promos./groups/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dears,TW853,K.P.Kuppu Ganapathiji,Swami RCS et al,

Years ago,Guruji had himself mentioned in his class to all of

us that... " ...the correct time of Birth is the time of the first CRY

of the child(as in order to cry he has to take a breath and empty his

lungs forcefully,to cry)... " Generally it is a practise followed my

most doctors to hold the infant by the feet and give a brisk slsp oh

it's back,to make it cry...by most obstetricians,these days...

Ever since,Guruji's lectures,I have been following this theory,

(but,as it is not generally possible to exactly note this time,as the

doctor/nurse/dai are all busy cleaning the newborn)...I subsequently

verify/correct(double-check)the TOB such that the Ascendant's sublord

and sub-sub lord appear as the Moon's starlord and sublord

respectively...(it could be possible to go upto the sub-sub-sub

level,to improve accuracy further)ofcourse,there will surely be a few

exceptions...when I take recourse to Ruling Planets...(every rule has

exceptions)...

The above has been my humble experience...and this improves

upon the accuracy of M.G.G.Nayars and Guruji's Method based on the

prenatal epoch theory...that the RPs at conception(fertilisation of

the ovum),and at the Time of the Delivery/Birth of the infant,will be

the same(though not in the same order),and tally with the RPs at the

TOJ !

(ref: Astrosecrets & K.P. Rectification of TOB)

The above method has given me a success rate of 80%...which in

my humble opinion,satisfies me...and the people who consult me

(provided of course that the corrected TOB is within + or - 30

minutes,as the events in their life conform almost entirely to the

Das-Bhukti-Anthara-Sookshma running at the time...

The above is method is followed by me...fairly successfuly,so

far...I request Members to try it out on atleast 50 births and

satisfy themselves...may be they could innovate even further,to

improve upon this rate of accuracy...

With kind regards,

L.Y.Rao.

>

>

> || Om Gurave Namah ||

> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah

> Hari Om,

> Dear TWji,

> Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I did

not find a single example of reading a chart where in rectifcation is

undertaken before chart reading.

> Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then

chart should be casted,How many follow it?

> I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct check but

I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.

> Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where he

rectified the chart and published article about events in her life.(

ref A & A July 1971)

> He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.

> ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified Birth

time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of

Prenatal epoch theory)

> He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for

interested students,I woked it out .with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the BT is

11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.

> There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.

> with regards

> OM TATSAT

> ------------------------

> Swami_RCS

> -----------------------

> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being

who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "

> --

>

> -

> tw853

>

> Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM

> Re: BTR CONFUSION

>

>

>

> Dear All,

>

> In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that

Guruji KSK " first " BTRed and only after that made the chart

analysis?.

>

> Thanks and regards,

>

> tw

>

>

>

>

> Food for Thought

>

>

> Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III or

the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji says, " I

shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you can

rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to the

research scholars. "

>

>

> Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an

established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time

of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be

followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is

also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the correct

time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in the

labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his

attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother a

very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that stage

neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical card

was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the

first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken as

correct time of birth.

>

> -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)

>

>

>

> Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to the

writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have already

sent. I have also seen that this write up has been discussed in the

KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already mentioned about it.

From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet to understand

and decide the mode of recording the correct time of birth, i.e.,

whether it is - i) when the child breaths first (when this happens,

no one knows as clearly pointed out by Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary) ii)

when the child's head appears from the womb of the Mother, iii) when

the child cries first and iv) when the umbilical cord is cut and

Mother and Child is separated. Under these conditions I am afraid all

are in a wild goose chase only and anybody can apply any rule that

works for him at all times. But the question is whether the same rule

helps others also who are in such situations. Perhaps not. For this

there may be umpteen reasons and causes which cannot be defined. But

in my opinion, before taking any chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow

GURUJI'S methods fully and He will come to your help.

>

> GOOD LUCK

>

> K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)

>

>

>

>

> , " K. P. Naidu " <konathalan@>

wrote:

> >

> > Dear sri Luther Ji,

> >

> > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance

of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based

on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time

upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be

important in divisional charts D-60 and above.

> >

> > Lot of discussion took place in this group on " Birth Time is

the time of new born's 1st breath "  Is the above Birth Time

corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ?

God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room

with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath,

it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement

of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or 4th

breath time. who knows except the God.

> >

> > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the

life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the

CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.

> >

> > Â In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on

successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not

confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said

Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry,

normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the

native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time

especially in KP system.

> > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the

prediction comes true

> > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical

aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and

conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.

> > ,

> > To avoid all the above problems, MOSTÂ of the KP astrologers

are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.

> >

> > Regards.

> >

> > Naidu KP

> > K. P. Naidu,

> > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,

> > Nowroji Road,

> > Maharanipeta,

> > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.

> > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.

> >

> > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:

> > Luther Rath rathluther@

> > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION

> >

> > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > In continuation to previous message: -

> > This is only an example.

> > Supposing : -

> > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant    Â

  Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun

> > Â

> > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub

> > Because: -

> >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00

> >            Ascendant falls at       26-42-07

> > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and

not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of

none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body

mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds.

Hope one and all agree to it.

> > Â

> > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-

sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.

> > Â

> > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.

> > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2

seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant

was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the

sub-sub from sun to Moon.

> > That means: -

> > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.

> > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.

> > Â

> > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.

> > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be

8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give

prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should

rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?

> > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of

the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation,

Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch

relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?

> > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one

minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are

vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant

one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures.

> > Â

> > Dr. Luther

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Luther Rath rathluther >

> > @gro ups.com

> > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM

> > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Sir,

> > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my

opinion. I may please be excused for the same.

> > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the

division of sign, star and subs.

> > Â

> > 7th August 2008

> > Â

> > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-56Â

Sun-Venus-Kethu

> > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07Â

Sun-Sun-Sun

> > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19Â

Sun-Sun-Sun

> > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.

> > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara

Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly

but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the

sub-sub.

> > Â

> > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as

follows: -

> > Sun gets an arc of                    40.0

Mins

> > Kethu                            Â

         46.7 Mins

> > Mars                            Â

         46.7 Mins

> > Moon                             Â

        66.7 Mins

> > Jupiter                           Â

      106.7 Mins

> > Mercury                           Â

   113.3 Mins

> > Rahu                            Â

       120.0 Mins

> > Saturn                           Â

      126.7 Mins

> > Venus                            Â

      133.3 Mins

> > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3

minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in

comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.

> > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -

> > Sun gets an arc of                   Â

2.000 Mins

> > Kethu                            Â

         2.333 Mins

> > Mars                             Â

         2.333 Mins

> > Moon                             Â

        3.333 Mins

> > Jupiter                           Â

        5.333 Mins

> > Mercury                           Â

     5.667 Mins

> > Rahu                            Â

         6.000 Mins

> > Saturn                           Â

        6.333 Mins

> > Venus                            Â

        6.667 Mins

> > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.

> > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.

> > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.

> > Â

> > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.

> > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             =Â

1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.

> > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60

seconds.

> > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.

> > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.

> > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as

follows: -

> > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs

> > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs

> > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs

> > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs

> > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs

> > Mercury15 sec*5.667Â =Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1 min-25 secs

> > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs

> > Saturn 15 secs*6.333Â =Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1 min-35 secs

> > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs

> > Â

> > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st

child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-

sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30

seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1

min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or

three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a

lot of differences in the twins.

> > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.

> > Â

> > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs

> > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs

> > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs

> > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs

> > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs

> > Mercury15 sec*18.889=Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 4 min-43 secs

> > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs

> > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 5 min-17 secs

> > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs

> > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun,

Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If

birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must

change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.

> > Â

> > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will

bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not

change remarkably as the Ascendant does.

> > Â

> > Dr. Luther

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > tranquas tranquas >

> > @gro ups..com

> > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM

> > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI

> >

> > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a

sub

> > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx.

54

> > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.

> >

> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of

apprx. 2

> > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna

sub

> > lord/sub sub lord.

> >

> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has

different

> > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since

moon

> > stays long in a star/sub.

> >

> > Kindly seek your valuable advice

> >

> > @gro ups.com, " Punit Pandey " punitp@

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lajmi ji,

> > >

> > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I

believe

> > that

> > >

> > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't

> > have any

> > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the

forum is

> > divided on

> > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method.

I

> > just wanted

> > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > >

> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi

> > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,

> > > > Allow me to refer you to a

> > recent book

> > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*

> > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 -

55,examples

> > have been

> > > > given by the author of this article...*

> > > > * ** Perusal of the above will

> > remove all

> > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble

> > opinion.It has been

> > > >

> > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the

time

> > of

> > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*

> > > > * * Further to the mehod of

> > BTRT that I

> > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with

> > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW

> > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the

> > planetary and

> > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...

> > > > The method I use is advocated

> > for

> > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the

exact

> > TOB...

> > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from

> > Linda

> > > > Goodman's book :*

> > > > " *A woman can conceive only

> > during

> > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the

SUN

> > and the MOON

> > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB

of

> > the* *Female

> > > > in question*... "

> > > > With best wishes,

> > > >

> > L.Y.Rao.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey punitp@

> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM

> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tranquas ji,

> > > >

> > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the

accuracy

> > of this

> > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file

> > section.

> > > >

> > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and

some

> > other senior

> > > > members don't believe this method.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo

> > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo

> > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT)

> > com<tranquas@ ...>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > >> Respected seniors,

> > > >>

> > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:

> > > >>

> > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who

born

> > in a

> > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB.

But

> > > >>

> > between the twins there is much much difference in all

> > activities.

> > > >>

> > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY

DIFFERENT

> > AND

> > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.

> > > >>

> > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD

AND SUB

> > LORD

> > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.

> > > >>

> > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for

a

> > given

> > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna

> > tarus,time

> > > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time

7.42 to

> > 8.59)

> > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am,

20.53@moon/ven,

> > here it

> > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub

is

> > coming

> > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon

> > > >>

> > > >> If we

> > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this

> > moon

> > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is

much

> > time

> > > >> gap.

> > > >>

> > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK

> > > >> pl.advice

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- ---------

> > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click

> > > >

> > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_

4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c

> > om/address>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one

roof. Go to http://in.promos./groups/

> >

>

[Guest guest]



 

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah Hari Om,

Dear Rao,

Yes thats why I love your mails and have seperate folder for them.

I always read and reread case studis you post although they are rare

with regards.

OM TATSAT------------------------Swami_RCS -----------------------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."--

 

-

Yogesh Rao Lajmi

Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:02 PM

Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

 

Dear Swamiji,

I regularly follow it but do not mention it...checking up on my e-mails will surely confirm this...

I agree with you,it is a very good practise...as it helps to give a more accurate prediction....

With best wishes,

L.Y.Rao.

 

swami <swami (AT) kaalvastu (DOT) com> Sent: Thursday, 14 August, 2008 3:27:44 PMRe: Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah Hari Om,

Dear TWji,

Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I did not find a single example of reading a chart where in rectifcation is undertaken before chart reading.

Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then chart should be casted,How many follow it?

I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct check but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.

Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where he rectified the chart and published article about events in her life.( ref A & A July 1971)

He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.

( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified Birth time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of Prenatal epoch theory)

He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for interested students,I woked it out .with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the BT is 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.

There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.

with regards

OM TATSAT------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Swami_RCS

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --

 

-

tw853

@gro ups.com

Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM

Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

Dear All,

In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart analysis?.

Thanks and regards,

tw

 

 

Food for Thought

 

Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III or the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji says, "I shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you can rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to the research scholars."

 

Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the correct time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in the labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother a very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that stage neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical card was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken as correct time of birth…

-K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)

 

Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been discussed in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already mentioned about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet to understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first (when this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of the Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the umbilical cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But the question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in such situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons and causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking any chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will come to your help.

GOOD LUCK

K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)

@gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@. ..> wrote:>> Dear sri Luther Ji,> > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ? God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath, it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or 4th breath time. who knows except the God.> > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time especially in KP system.> The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the prediction comes true> I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> , > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > Regards.> > Naidu KP> K. P. Naidu,> Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> Nowroji Road,> Maharanipeta,> VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@. .. wrote:> Luther Rath rathluther@. ..> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> @gro ups.com> Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > This is only an example. > Supposing : -> X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun>  > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> Because: ->            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00>            Ascendant falls at       26-42-07> Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.>  > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.>  > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.> That means: -> Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.>  > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?> There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures. >  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > Dear Sir,> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.>  > 7th August 2008>  > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub. >  > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -> Sun gets an arc of                    40.0 Mins> Kethu                                      46.7 Mins> Mars                                      46.7 Mins> Moon                                      66.7 Mins> Jupiter                                  106.7 Mins> Mercury                               113.3 Mins> Rahu                                    120.0 Mins> Saturn                                  126.7 Mins> Venus                                   133.3 Mins> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> Sun gets an arc of                    2.000 Mins> Kethu                                      2.333 Mins> Mars                                       2.333 Mins> Moon                                      3.333 Mins> Jupiter                                    5.333 Mins> Mercury                                 5.667 Mins> Rahu                                      6.000 Mins> Saturn                                    6.333 Mins> Venus                                     6.667 Mins> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.>  > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.> Let us examine Sun’s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -> Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs>  > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.>  > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.>  > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.>  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> @gro ups..com> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub > lord/sub sub lord.> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon > stays long in a star/sub.> > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe > that> >> selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't > have any> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is > divided on> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I > just wanted> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > Allow me to refer you to a > recent book> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples > have been> > > given by the author of this article...*> > > * ** Perusal of the above will > remove all> > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > opinion.It has been> > >> consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time > of> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > * * Further to the mehod of > BTRT that I> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the > planetary and> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > The method I use is advocated > for> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact > TOB...> > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > Linda> > > Goodman's book :*> > > "*A woman can conceive only > during> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN > and the MOON> > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of > the* *Female> > > in question*... "> > > With best wishes,> > >> L.Y.Rao.> > >> > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > @gro ups.com> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > >> > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > >> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy > of this> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file > section.> > >> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some > other senior> > > members don't believe this method.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > wrote:> > >> > >> Respected seniors,> > >>> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > >>> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born > in a> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> > >>> between the twins there is much much difference in all > activities.> > >>> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT > AND> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > >>> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB > LORD> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > >>> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a > given> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna > tarus,time> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to > 8.59)> > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, > here it> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is > coming> > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > >>> > >> If we> adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > moon> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much > time> > >> gap.> > >>> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > >> pl.advice> > >>> > >>> > >> > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> om/address>> > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah Hari Om,

Dear sir,

It is not easy to expalin by mail.

I will post article in file section in future, in case i find time to pen it down.

Being KP forum i do not expect Moderator to approve it.

with regards

OM TATSAT------------------------Swami_RCS

-----------------------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."--

 

-

Dhanabalan R

Thursday, August 14, 2008 9:31 PM

Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Swami Can you explain to the members how to rectify the birth time using vedic methods. Dhanabalan--- On Thu, 8/14/08, swami <swami (AT) kaalvastu (DOT) com> wrote:

swami <swami (AT) kaalvastu (DOT) com>Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 9:57 AM

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipat aye Namah Hari Om,

Dear TWji,

Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I did not find a single example of reading a chart where in rectifcation is undertaken before chart reading.

Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then chart should be casted,How many follow it?

I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct check but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.

Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where he rectified the chart and published article about events in her life.( ref A & A July 1971)

He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.

( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified Birth time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of Prenatal epoch theory)

He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for interested students,I woked it out .with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the BT is 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.

There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.

with regards

OM TATSAT------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Swami_RCS

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding. "------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --

 

-

tw853

@gro ups.com

Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM

Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

 

Dear All,

In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart analysis?.

Thanks and regards,

tw

 

 

Food for Thought

 

Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III or the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji says, "I shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you can rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to the research scholars."

 

Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the correct time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in the labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother a very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that stage neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical card was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken as correct time of birth…

-K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)

 

Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been discussed in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already mentioned about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet to understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first (when this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of the Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the umbilical cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But the question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in such situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons and causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking any chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will come to your help.

GOOD LUCK K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005) @gro ups.com, "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@. ..> wrote:>> Dear sri Luther Ji,> > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ? God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath, it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or 4th breath time. who knows except the God.> > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME..> >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time especially in KP system..> The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the prediction comes true> I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> , > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > Regards.> > Naidu KP> K. P. Naidu,> Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> Nowroji Road,> Maharanipeta,> VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@. .. wrote:> Luther Rath rathluther@. ...> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> @gro ups.com> Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > This is only an example. > Supposing : -> X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun>  > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> Because: ->            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00>            Ascendant falls at       26-42-07> Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.>  > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.>  > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.> That means: -> Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.>  > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?> There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures. >  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> @gro ups.com> Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > Dear Sir,> The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.>  > 7th August 2008>  > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun> Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub. >  > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -> Sun gets an arc of                    40.0 Mins> Kethu                                      46.7 Mins> Mars                                      46.7 Mins> Moon                                      66.7 Mins> Jupiter                                  106.7 Mins> Mercury                               113.3 Mins> Rahu                                    120.0 Mins> Saturn                                  126.7 Mins> Venus                                   133.3 Mins> Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> Sun gets an arc of                    2.000 Mins> Kethu                                      2.333 Mins> Mars                                       2.333 Mins> Moon                                      3.333 Mins> Jupiter                                    5.333 Mins> Mercury                                 5.667 Mins> Rahu                                      6.000 Mins> Saturn                                    6.333 Mins> Venus                                     6.667 Mins> The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.>  > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.> Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.> Let us examine Sun’s sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -> Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs>  > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.> Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.>  > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.>  > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.>  > Dr. Luther>  > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> @gro ups..com> Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub > lord/sub sub lord.> > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon > stays long in a star/sub.> > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe > that> >> selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't > have any> > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is > divided on> > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I > just wanted> > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > Allow me to refer you to a > recent book> > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples > have been> > > given by the author of this article...*> > > * ** Perusal of the above will > remove all> > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > opinion.It has been> > >> consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time > of> > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > * * Further to the mehod of > BTRT that I> > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the > planetary and> > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > The method I use is advocated > for> > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact > TOB...> > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > Linda> > > Goodman's book :*> > > "*A woman can conceive only > during> > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN > and the MOON> > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of > the* *Female> > > in question*... "> > > With best wishes,> > >> L.Y.Rao.> > >> > >> > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > @gro ups.com> > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > >> > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > >> > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy > of this> > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file > section.> > >> > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some > other senior> > > members don't believe this method.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > wrote:> > >> > >> Respected seniors,> > >>> > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > >>> > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born > in a> > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> > >>> between the twins there is much much difference in all > activities.> > >>> > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT > AND> > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > >>> > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB > LORD> > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > >>> > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a > given> > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna > tarus,time> > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to > 8.59)> > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, > here it> > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is > coming> > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > >>> > >> If we> adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > moon> > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much > time> > >> gap.> > >>> > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > >> pl..advice> > >>> > >>> > >> > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> om/address>> > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. Go to http://in.promos. / groups/>

[Guest guest]

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah Hari Om,

Dear TW ji

Then how you feel KP explains/ justifies life events (almost Fifteen) as written by Prof KSK himself based on wrong chart.

Is astrology a science of justification?

He did not predict on this chart for want of her permission .

Any views?

OM TATSAT------------------------Swami_RCS

-----------------------" Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."--

 

-

tw853

Friday, August 15, 2008 7:47 AM

Re: BTR CONFUSION

 

 

Dear Swami ji,1. If so, there is no reason to be crazy for the BTR.2. I had got this BTR of Indira Gandhi. This BTRed time is too far from the historical records of around 11:11 PM to be accepatable.Thanks and regards,tw , "swami" <swami wrote:>> > || Om Gurave Namah ||> Om SreeMahaGanaadhipataye Namah> Hari Om,> Dear TWji,> Very imprtant question.I was just glancing KP reader vol i.I did not find a single example of reading a chart where in rectifcation is undertaken before chart reading.> Alhough many say Birth time should be rectified first and then chart should be casted,How many follow it?> I do not know, but in serious work I certainly do conduct check but I am no expert in KP method so i use vedic methods.> Perhaps only writing i know is of chart of Indira gandhi where he rectified the chart and published article about events in her life.( ref A & A July 1971)> He undertook rectification on 3 may 1971 at 13:08 IST at Delhi.> ( unfortunaetly He did not say how he arrived at rectified Birth time although He told sign-star sub based on RP and talked of Prenatal epoch theory)> He gave chart did not mention rectified Birth time.Just for interested students,I woked it out .with Ayanamsa 22:37:14 the BT is 11:39:29PM with ASC Leo 3D42M04S.> There may be more , but this is what i remember at the moment.> with regards> OM TATSAT> ------------------------> Swami_RCS > -----------------------> " Let us meditate on the glorious effulgence of that Divine Being who has created the three worlds.May He Direct our understanding."> --------------------------> > - > tw853 > > Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:57 PM> Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > Dear All,> > In the KP Readers, are there how many practicle examples that Guruji KSK "first" BTRed and only after that made the chart analysis?. > > Thanks and regards,> > tw> > > > > Food for Thought> > > Only at the end of his Krishnamurti Padghdhati, KP Reader III or the original KP Vol. 2, the sole forceful words user Guruji says, "I shall give some of the methods which are available. How far you can rely on them, is entirely to you, to the readers andholar and to the research scholars."> > > Regarding the doubt about correct Time of Birth, it is an established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time of birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be followed to find out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is also an Astrologer, has said that when he wanted to know the correct time of birth for his two daughters by making himself present in the labour room where the delivery took place, he has failed in his attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother a very low hizzing noise came from the new born Child. At that stage neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical card was cut. He was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the first breath taken by the child etc. and if so that can be taken as correct time of birth. > > -K.P. Kuppu Ganapathi (22-12-2005)> > > > Before concluding I would like to draw your kind attention to the writing of Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary, a copy of which I have already sent. I have also seen that this write up has been discussed in the KP Groups, two or three times and tw has already mentioned about it. From that writing one thing is clear viz., we are yet to understand and decide the mode of recording the correct time of birth, i.e., whether it is - i) when the child breaths first (when this happens, no one knows as clearly pointed out by Dr.Satyaprakash Choudhary) ii) when the child's head appears from the womb of the Mother, iii) when the child cries first and iv) when the umbilical cord is cut and Mother and Child is separated. Under these conditions I am afraid all are in a wild goose chase only and anybody can apply any rule that works for him at all times. But the question is whether the same rule helps others also who are in such situations. Perhaps not. For this there may be umpteen reasons and causes which cannot be defined. But in my opinion, before taking any chart, Pray to GURUJI, follow GURUJI'S methods fully and He will come to your help.> > GOOD LUCK> > K.P.KUPPU GANAPATHI. (Msg#5054, 16-6-2005)> > > > > , "K. P. Naidu" <konathalan@> wrote:> >> > Dear sri Luther Ji,> > > > You are absolutely correctin in high lighting the importance of Birth Time upto exact second, more so in KP system which is based on sub and sub sub. In traditional Hindu astrology Birth Time upto exact second may not be that much important. ofcourse it may be important in divisional charts D-60 and above.> > > > Lot of discussion took place in this group on "Birth Time is the time of new born's 1st breath" Is the above Birth Time corrected upto exact second is the time of the native's 1st breath ? God only knows. Even if some KP astrologer sits in the labor room with stop watch to record the time of new born's time of 1st breath, it is a matter of dispute what is 1st breath - 1st cry 1st movement of hands etc. By the time it is noted it may be 2nd or 3rd or 4th breath time. who knows except the God.> > > > I, therefore, feel that the Birth Time which confirms all the life events of the native as per existing KP principles, is the CORRECT AND EXACT BIRTH TIME.> > > >  In KPE-zine and Astrovision I found most of the articles on successful prediction made on natal charts, the Birth Times do not confirm / satisfy any of the existing RBT theories. Pl note I said Mostly and not all. Those KP astrologers replied on enquiry, normally Birth Time is not verified unless doubt expressed by the native. How many natives know as the importance of exact Birth Time especially in KP system.> > The FACT is no body bothers about birth time as long the prediction comes true> > I observed in this forum, the discussions MOSTLY on theortical aspect rather than on practical experience and they safely and conveniently ignore / hide the practicaly reality.> > , > > To avoid all the above problems, MOST of the KP astrologers are safely and conveniently resorting to HORARY method.> > > > Regards.> > > > Naidu KP> > K. P. Naidu,> > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> > Nowroji Road,> > Maharanipeta,> > VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> > Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > --- On Thu, 7/8/08, Luther Rath rathluther@ wrote:> > Luther Rath rathluther@> > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > Thursday, 7 August, 2008, 5:45 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In continuation to previous message: - > > This is only an example. > > Supposing : -> > X is born at     8-07 AM       Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> >  > > Leo 26-42-07 = Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon sub-sub> > Because: -> >            Sun sub begins at Leo  26-40-00> >            Ascendant falls at       26-42-07> > Who can certify that the birth was exactly at 8-07-00 AM and not 20 seconds earlier or later? May I bring to notice that watch of none is rectified to the extent of seconds? When ever some body mentions time in hour and minute it is always (+) or (-)few seconds. Hope one and all agree to it.> >  > > Ascendant has crossed the arc of 2 minutes allotted to Sun sub-sub and entered in to Moon sub-sub for 07 seconds of zodiac.> >  > > In such a case the birth of X could be at Hr 8-06-57 seconds.> > This 7 seconds in Moon sub-sub needs 3.333/15*7 = 1.6 or 2 seconds only. That means 2 seconds earlier than 8-07-00 AM Ascendant was in Sun sub-sub. A mater of two seconds of time could change the sub-sub from sun to Moon.> > That means: -> > Birth at 8-06-57 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Sun.> > Birth at 8-07-00 Ascendant was at Sun-Sun-Sun- Moon.> >  > > Now one can understand how sensitive is an Ascendant.> > But the tragedy is the consultant cannot give birth time to be 8-06-57 A.M. He will only say 8 hours and 7 minutes. And we give prediction for Moon sub-sub. Does it therefore every one should rectify birth time to seconds and sub-sub?> > At present there is so much of controversy to fix the sub of the ascendant. Discussion continues on Ascendant-Moon relation, Ascendant-RP relation, Ascendant-IX cusp relation, Ascendant-epoch relation and may be more. Then what to speak of fixing the sub-sub?> > There are at least 60 sub-sub zones that pass away with in one minute; in the zodiac. So during minute wise calculation these are vulnerable to be missed. So while considering sub-sub of an Ascendant one must be extremely cautious. The risk is more at the junctures. > >  > > Dr. Luther> >  > > > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > @gro ups.com> > Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:12:41 PM> > Re: Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir,> > The query is not directed to me, although, I wanted to share my opinion. I may please be excused for the same.> > Before we try to find out the answers we have to look in to the division of sign, star and subs.> >  > > 7th August 2008> >  > > 8-06 Am         Ascendant       Leo 26-27-56 Sun-Venus-Kethu> > 8-07 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-42-07 Sun-Sun-Sun> > 8-08 AM        Ascendant       Leo 26-59-19 Sun-Sun-Sun> > Every sign of the zodiac covers 30 degrees. So also does Leo.> > Every star is allotted with 13-20-00 degrees. So also Uttara Phalguni, ruled by Sun. But the subs have not been allotted uniformly but according to the allotment done in Vimshodari system. So also the sub-sub. > >  > > In Uttara Phalguni the arc of different planets are as follows: -> > Sun gets an arc of                    40.0 Mins> > Kethu                                      46.7 Mins> > Mars                                      46.7 Mins> > Moon                                      66.7 Mins> > Jupiter                                  106.7 Mins> > Mercury                               113.3 Mins> > Rahu                                    120.0 Mins> > Saturn                                  126.7 Mins> > Venus                                   133.3 Mins> > Thus while Sun sub gets only 40 minutes Venus gets 133.3 minuts. So in Sun sub, the sub-sub lords get smaller zones in comparison to zones in Venus and of course in all other subs.> > Division of 40 minutes of Sun sub: -> > Sun gets an arc of                    2.000 Mins> > Kethu                                      2.333 Mins> > Mars                                       2.333 Mins> > Moon                                      3.333 Mins> > Jupiter                                    5.333 Mins> > Mercury                                 5.667 Mins> > Rahu                                      6.000 Mins> > Saturn                                    6.333 Mins> > Venus                                     6.667 Mins> > The Ascendant takes approximately 2 hours to traverse a sign.> > 1 Sign =30 degrees = 1800 minutes in arc of zodiacal zone.> > 2 hours = 120 minutes in time.> >  > > So in 120 minutes of time Lagna covers = 1800 minutes of arc.> > Therefore in 1 minute it covers             = 1800/120 = 15 minutes of arc.> > In other words 15 minutes of arc is covered in 1 minute or 60 seconds.> > Therefore 1 minutes of arc is covered in 15*60/60 =15 seconds.> > Let us examine Sunâ?Ts sub that has smallest zone in zodiac.> > So the time taken by Ascendant to cross each sub-sub will be as follows: -> > Sun     15 secs*2.000 =         30 secs> > Kethu 15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > Mars   15 secs*2.333 =         35 secs> > Moon  15 secs*3.333 =         50 secs> > Jupiter 15 secs*5.333 =         1 min-20 secs> > Mercury15 sec*5.667 =         1 min-25 secs> > Rahu   15 secs*6.000 =         1 min-30 secs> > Saturn 15 secs*6.333 =         1 min-35 secs> > Venus  15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> >  > > From the above one can come to a conclusion that if the 1st child is born in Leo in UttaraPhalguni in the sub of Sun and in sub-sub of son and the second of the twins takes birth only after 30 seconds the sub-sub changes to Ketu. If the second is born after 1 min and 40 seconds the sub-sub changes and may be it bypasses 2 or three sub-subs. So a difference of 2 minutes in birth time brings a lot of differences in the twins.> > Let us then examine sub-sub f Venus that has maximum of arc.> >  > > Sun     15 secs*6.667 =         1 min-40 secs> > Kethu 15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > Mars   15 secs*7.778 =         1 min-56 secs> > Moon  15 secs*11.111=        2 min-47 secs> > Jupiter 15 secs*17.778=        4 min-27 secs> > Mercury15 sec*18.889=         4 min-43 secs> > Rahu   15 secs*20.000=        5 min-00 secs> > Saturn 15 secs*21.111=        5 min-17 secs> > Venus  15 secs*22.222=        5 min-33 secs> > In case twins are born at a difference of 2 minutes in Sun, Kethu or Mars sub-sub the sub-sub of the Ascendant will change. If birth is 5 min and 33 seconds apart in any sub the sub-sub must change and there will be difference between the twins in many aspects.> >  > > Transit of Moon also will vary accordingly. This variation will bring about difference in D/B/A/S/P etc.The transit of Moon shall not change remarkably as the Ascendant does.> >  > > Dr. Luther> >  > > > > > > > > > > tranquas tranquas >> > @gro ups..com> > Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:20:01 PM> > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > > > > > > Thank you Mr. RAO JI and MR. PANDEY JI> > > > My strong doubt is moon stays in a star apprx. 24 hrs and in a sub > > apprx.2.40 hrs. For this the relative lagna star will be apprx. 54 > > mins. sub will be appx. 6 mins and sub/sub is 40 seconds.> > > > when moon is in the sub for 2.40hrs and one lagna time of apprx. 2 > > hrs the people born on the entire two hrs will get same lagna sub > > lord/sub sub lord.> > > > SHRI KSK says that even twins born in few mins gap has different > > sub/subsub. Even said to take only lagna for prediction since moon > > stays long in a star/sub.> > > > Kindly seek your valuable advice > > > > @gro ups.com, "Punit Pandey" punitp@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > > > > > It is addendum to the ascendant-moon connection method. I believe > > that> > >> > selection of BTR method is astrologer's preference and I don't > > have any> > > objection to that. I just wanted to communicate that the forum is > > divided on> > > this topic and not everybody accepts it as a correct method. I > > just wanted> > > to put whole forum's perspective in front of new members.> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi > > lyrastro1@ ..>wrote:> > > > > > > Dear Tranquas & Punit,> > > > Allow me to refer you to a > > recent book> > > > *Progeny & Romance, in the Chapter :*> > > > *The Prenatal Epoch and Progeny K.P.R.P.,Pp 34 - 55,examples > > have been> > > > given by the author of this article...*> > > > * ** Perusal of the above will > > remove all> > > > myths and prejudices,about Prenatal Epoch in my humble > > opinion.It has been> > > >> > consistently found that the RPs at Birth and the RPs at the time > > of> > > > conception/fertilis ation of the ovum,*> > > > * * Further to the mehod of > > BTRT that I> > > > follow,I do not forget to confirm with > > RPs...Fortunately, Mr.Raichur' s SW> > > > gives the RPs of any Chart Horary or Natal along with the > > planetary and> > > > cuspal positions up to the sub-sub-sub level...> > > > The method I use is advocated > > for> > > > Birthtimes to be rectified + or - 30 minutes away from the exact > > TOB...> > > > *KSK shared the SECRET.....from > > Linda> > > > Goodman's book :*> > > > "*A woman can conceive only > > during> > > > aproximately two hours period,of each Lunar Month,when the SUN > > and the MOON> > > > are exactly the same degrees apart,as they were at the TOB of > > the* *Female> > > > in question*... "> > > > With best wishes,> > > >> > L.Y.Rao.> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp@> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 10:39:59 AM> > > > Re: BTR CONFUSION> > > >> > > > Dear Tranquas ji,> > > >> > > > Just want to point out that the forum is divided on the accuracy > > of this> > > > method. Please check old archive on this topic and the file > > section.> > > >> > > > Lajmi ji is one of the strong believer of this method and some > > other senior> > > > members don't believe this method.> > > >> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > >> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > Twitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo > > ger<http://twitter. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > > FriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo > > ger<http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:58 AM, tranquas tranquas (AT) (DOT) > > com<tranquas@ ...>> > > > > wrote:> > > >> > > >> Respected seniors,> > > >>> > > >> PL.clarify on bitrh time rectification:> > > >>> > > >> Shri KSK got a flash when he studied TWINS BIRTH CHART who born > > in a> > > >> few minutes difference with same LAGNA, MOON STAR AND SUB. But> > > >>> > between the twins there is much much difference in all > > activities.> > > >>> > > >> Then only he determined that the LAGNA SUB IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT > > AND> > > >> THIS IS THE DIRECTOR and evolved more.> > > >>> > > >> In the forum BTR is explained as to take MOON STAR LORD AND SUB > > LORD> > > >> as lagna sub lord and sub sub lord.> > > >>> > > >> If we take for example STAR LORD SUN and sublord SUN, for a > > given> > > >> lagna the period varies from 33 minutes(may 1,1966,lagna > > tarus,time> > > >> 8.25to8.58) to 1 hour17min.(august 27,1966 virgo, time 7.42 to > > 8.59)> > > >> (At7.42am, 1.31@lagna-sun/ jupiter to 8.59am, 20.53@moon/ven, > > here it> > > >> is not possible to take sun as lagna sublord since sun sub is > > coming> > > >> at 9.07am only, at that time moon is in sun/moon> > > >>> > > >> If we> > adjust as per BTR the people born or even twins on this > > moon> > > >> star/sub will get same lagna sublord even though there is much > > time> > > >> gap.> > > >>> > > >> ISN'T CONTRADICTS SHRI KSK> > > >> pl.advice> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > Get an email ID as yourname@ or yourname@ Click> > > > > > here.<http://in.rd. / tagline_dbid_ 4/*http:/ /in.promos. .c> > om/address>> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. 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