Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Dear Manu, If I may comment.... In KAS 3rd is for the mother, not 4th. This is somehow different from other classical references. Each house has so many significations. If we take 9th as B, Mo is certainly natural karaka, but for happiness, luck etc. As for father, one who takes 10th as house of father may say here: well, if 10th is B, than Su is natural karaka. Maybe Krushnaji can give some hints here... All the best, Dadhi - Manu Batura Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:40 AM Karaka for Father and mother Dear Ash, Krushnaji,LoA is the Karak for house B. We say that 9th house is for father and 4th for mother. According to the above rule, we should get Moon as N. Karak for Father and Saturn as N. Karak for Mother. Since, that is not the case (Su being NK for father and Mo being NK for mother), should we consider this as an exception to the rule?Regards,Manu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Dear Dadhi, Thanks a lot. If that is the case then it would be great to have a list of karakas and their associated list of signications. We don't have any such list. Do we? Regards, Manu , " Dadhi " <denis@d...> wrote: > Dear Manu, > > If I may comment.... In KAS 3rd is for the mother, not 4th. This is somehow different from other classical references. > > Each house has so many significations. If we take 9th as B, Mo is certainly natural karaka, but for happiness, luck etc. > > As for father, one who takes 10th as house of father may say here: well, if 10th is B, than Su is natural karaka. > > Maybe Krushnaji can give some hints here... > > All the best, > Dadhi > > > - > Manu Batura > > Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:40 AM > Karaka for Father and mother > > > > Dear Ash, Krushnaji, > > LoA is the Karak for house B. We say that 9th house is for father and > 4th for mother. According to the above rule, we should get Moon as N. > Karak for Father and Saturn as N. Karak for Mother. > > Since, that is not the case (Su being NK for father and Mo being NK > for mother), should we consider this as an exception to the rule? > > Regards, > Manu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 > Thanks a lot. If that is the case then it would be great to have a> list of karakas and their associated list of signications. We don't> have any such list. Do we? I think we do not have such list. Are you volunteering for this task ? All the best, Dadhi - Manu Batura Sunday, October 31, 2004 5:17 PM Re: Karaka for Father and mother Dear Dadhi,Thanks a lot. If that is the case then it would be great to have a list of karakas and their associated list of signications. We don't have any such list. Do we?Regards,Manu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Dear Dadhi, It seems that in KAS we always take LoA as Karak for any house. In that respect Su shall not be the Karak for Father in KAS. It shall be moon. So, maybe we shall not require a list of exceptions. I shall wait for Ash's and Krushnaji's comments in this regard. Thanks & Regards, Manu , " Dadhi " <denis@d...> wrote: > > Thanks a lot. If that is the case then it would be great to have a > > list of karakas and their associated list of signications. We don't > > have any such list. Do we? > > I think we do not have such list. Are you volunteering for this task ? > > All the best, > Dadhi > > - > Manu Batura > > Sunday, October 31, 2004 5:17 PM > Re: Karaka for Father and mother > > > > Dear Dadhi, > > Thanks a lot. If that is the case then it would be great to have a > list of karakas and their associated list of signications. We don't > have any such list. Do we? > > Regards, > Manu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Dear members The karaka has to be considered while giving prediction. Venus for wife, mars for brother, etc. There is a rule in vedic and it find a place in volume II and Reader III.. Please refer page 230 in Reader III (2004) and page 233 in volume II (1966) under the heading “MOTHER”. I reproduce the first para. “For people born during day time, Sun represents the father and Venus indicates the mother; but for those born during night time Saturn governs the father and Moon rules the mother.” Are we following this rule? Dhanabalan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Take " Sun for father " and " Moon for mother " in KP and the reasons are as follows: 1) Day born, night born is not the Guruji KSK's idea, for instance, in the case of Fortuna, the only one (day born) formular is used, even though there are 2 different formulars for the day born and night born in the Varshapha or Tajik (by Acharya Neelkantha, B.V. Raman, Sumeet Chugh), and the Western Pars Fortuna. Only the day time formula has been used by modern western astrologers like Llewellyn George (The New A to Z Horoscope Maker and Delineator), Robert Hand (Horoscope Symbol) and it is the same with William Lilly's procedure. The " Fortuna chater " in the original KP volume 1 is no more included in the KP Readers, which is in line with not to attribute too much to the Fortuna as per study of H J Gouchon, M P Hall, J Mayo and J Wilson. (Geoffrey Dean: Recent Advances in Natal Astrology, A Critical Review 1900-1976). 2) By reading 2 more pages under " Mother " , at the end under " KP " there is written " if the 4th cusp and Moon occupy the constellation of --- " , i.e. " 4th cusp and Moon " are for mother. 3) Among the headings about planets in the original KP volume 1 or KP Reader II, there are " Sun- The Father " and " Moon- The Mother " . The KP Reader II, with 100% reprinting contents from the the original KP volume 1, includes " ALL RIGHTS RESERVED BY THE AUTHOR " , which cannot be possible if the copyright of the original KP volume 1 & 2 were sold to the Sagar Publications. So it is not necessary to make changes in the KP Reader III to avoid the the copyright problem. 4) One interesting reminder in p 371 of the original KP Vol. 2 is " not to carry away by any single statement, which will be similar to the story of blind men describing an elephant by feeling any one part of it " . It is not included in the KP Readers. , Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan wrote: > > Dear members > > The karaka has to be considered while giving prediction. Venus for wife, mars for brother, etc. There is a rule in vedic and it find a place in volume II and Reader III. > > Please refer page 230 in Reader III (2004) and page 233 in volume II (1966) under the heading " MOTHER " . I reproduce the first para. > > " For people born during day time, Sun represents the father and Venus indicates the mother; but for those born during night time Saturn governs the father and Moon rules the mother. " > > Are we following this rule? > > Dhanabalan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Dear tw853 When the rule is not applicable to k.p. and Mr.KSK is also not following that rule, what was the necessity to include in his original books and the present Reader. Why should he confuse the beginers. For knowing vedic rules, one can buy vedic books and read. In many places in the Reader, he used to tell pages and pages about the vedic system and finally he used to tell, but according to Krishnamoorthy Padadhati...... It seem that to fill up the pages in the Readers, he dumped the materials not relevent to k.p. R.Dhanabalan--- On Tue, 8/5/08, tw853 <tw853 wrote: tw853 <tw853 Re: Karaka for father and mother Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 1:20 AM Take "Sun for father" and "Moon for mother" in KP and the reasons are as follows:1) Day born, night born is not the Guruji KSK's idea, for instance, in the case of Fortuna, the only one (day born) formular is used, even though there are 2 different formulars for the day born and night born in the Varshapha or Tajik (by Acharya Neelkantha, B.V. Raman, Sumeet Chugh), and the Western Pars Fortuna. Only the day time formula has been used by modern western astrologers like Llewellyn George (The New A to Z Horoscope Maker and Delineator), Robert Hand (Horoscope Symbol) and it is the same with William Lilly's procedure. The "Fortuna chater" in the original KP volume 1 is no more included in the KP Readers, which is in line with not to attribute too much to the Fortuna as per study of H J Gouchon, M P Hall, J Mayo and J Wilson. (Geoffrey Dean: Recent Advances in Natal Astrology, A Critical Review 1900-1976).2) By reading 2 more pages under "Mother", at the end under "KP" there is written "if the 4th cusp and Moon occupy the constellation of ---", i.e. "4th cusp and Moon" are for mother.3) Among the headings about planets in the original KP volume 1 or KP Reader II, there are "Sun- The Father" and "Moon- The Mother". The KP Reader II, with 100% reprinting contents from the the original KP volume 1, includes "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED BY THE AUTHOR" , which cannot be possible if the copyright of the original KP volume 1 & 2 were sold to the Sagar Publications. So it is not necessary to make changes in the KP Reader III to avoid the the copyright problem.4) One interesting reminder in p 371 of the original KP Vol. 2 is "not to carry away by any single statement, which will be similar to the story of blind men describing an elephant by feeling any one part of it". It is not included in the KP Readers. @gro ups.com, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ ...> wrote:>> Dear members> > The karaka has to be considered while giving prediction. Venus for wife, mars for brother, etc. There is a rule in vedic and it find a place in volume II and Reader III.> > Please refer page 230 in Reader III (2004) and page 233 in volume II (1966) under the heading "MOTHER". I reproduce the first para.> > "For people born during day time, Sun represents the father and Venus indicates the mother; but for those born during night time Saturn governs the father and Moon rules the mother."> > Are we following this rule?> > Dhanabalan> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Forget those unhelpful and confusing things not to waste time and energy and to concentrate only on the real rules and issues practically applicable in the KP analysis, after dumping the materials not relevent to the KP, for the benefit of the KP lovers. , Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan wrote:>> Dear tw853> > When the rule is not applicable to k.p. and Mr.KSK is also not following that rule, what was the necessity to include in his original books and the present Reader. Why should he confuse the beginers. For knowing vedic rules, one can buy vedic books and read. > > In many places in the Reader, he used to tell pages and pages about the vedic system and finally he used to tell, but according to Krishnamoorthy Padadhati...... It seem that to fill up the pages in the Readers, he dumped the materials not relevent to k.p.> > R.Dhanabalan> > --- On Tue, 8/5/08, tw853 tw853 wrote:> > tw853 tw853 Re: Karaka for father and mother> > Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 1:20 AM> > > > > > > Take "Sun for father" and "Moon for mother" in KP and the reasons > are as follows:> > 1) Day born, night born is not the Guruji KSK's idea, for instance, > in the case of Fortuna, the only one (day born) formular is used, > even though there are 2 different formulars for the day born and > night born in the Varshapha or Tajik (by Acharya Neelkantha, B.V. > Raman, Sumeet Chugh), and the Western Pars Fortuna. Only the day > time formula has been used by modern western astrologers like > Llewellyn George (The New A to Z Horoscope Maker and Delineator), > Robert Hand (Horoscope Symbol) and it is the same with William > Lilly's procedure. The "Fortuna chater" in the original KP volume 1 > is no more included in the KP Readers, which is in line with not to > attribute too much to the Fortuna as per study of H J Gouchon, M P > Hall, J Mayo and J Wilson. (Geoffrey Dean: Recent Advances in Natal > Astrology, A Critical Review 1900-1976).> > 2) By reading 2 more pages under "Mother", at the end under "KP" > there is written "if the 4th cusp and Moon occupy the constellation > of ---", i.e. "4th cusp and Moon" are for mother.> > 3) Among the headings about planets in the original KP volume 1 or > KP Reader II, there are "Sun- The Father" and "Moon- The Mother". > The KP Reader II, with 100% reprinting contents from the the > original KP volume 1, includes "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED BY THE AUTHOR" , > which cannot be possible if the copyright of the original KP volume > 1 & 2 were sold to the Sagar Publications. So it is not necessary to > make changes in the KP Reader III to avoid the the copyright problem.> > 4) One interesting reminder in p 371 of the original KP Vol. 2 > is "not to carry away by any single statement, which will be similar > to the story of blind men describing an elephant by feeling any one > part of it". It is not included in the KP Readers. > > > @gro ups.com, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ ...> > wrote:> >> > Dear members> > > > The karaka has to be considered while giving prediction. Venus for > wife, mars for brother, etc. There is a rule in vedic and it find a > place in volume II and Reader III.> > > > Please refer page 230 in Reader III (2004) and page 233 in volume > II (1966) under the heading "MOTHER". I reproduce the first para.> > > > "For people born during day time, Sun represents the father and > Venus indicates the mother; but for those born during night time > Saturn governs the father and Moon rules the mother."> > > > Are we following this rule?> > > > Dhanabalan> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Dear Dhanabalan ji, Though the question is asked to Tw ji, but I would like to add my 2 cents here. In my opinion, there can be various reasons for having Vedic (i must say traditional, as KP system is also Vedic only IMO) rules in KP books. Here are few of the possibilities - 1. To fill-up the space as mentioned by you. The KP system can be very well summarized in a booklet of few pages, but that is not easy to sell in the market. 2. He was in process of researching those concept and by incorporating these traditional concepts in his readers, he made sure that further research and discussion will be done, the way we are doing right now. If this is the case, he was visionary as well other than an excellent astrologer. 3. He was a great fan of Vedic astrology, and wanted to make sure that we all understand Vedic astrology. We all know that most of the principles are driven from traditional astrology only. 4. An astrologer uses many rules in his life time. Many of them works for him and many fails. But astrologer picks the rules which are, other than correct, also easy and quick to apply. So there is a possibility that he used certain rules at certain time and those rules even worked for him, but he dropped those rules in favor of simplicity and ease of application. We all know that Sri KSK were in favor of systematic approach that was lacking in traditional astrology and I might have found that those rules, though correct, are very difficult to implement systematically. In the absence of Sri KSK, we don't have many options left to find out the answers of your questions. What we are doing is 'speculation' and with that we can not conclude anything, but just put our point forward. This is good to make member aware of certain possibilities, but facts and conclusions will remain missing. What we can also do is to test the mentioned rules by the way of practical application, and figure out the truth ourselves. The choice is ours - speculate or research. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyTwitter: http://twitter.com/punitastrologerFriendFeed: http://friendfeed.com/punitastrologer On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan wrote: Dear tw853 When the rule is not applicable to k.p. and Mr.KSK is also not following that rule, what was the necessity to include in his original books and the present Reader. Why should he confuse the beginers. For knowing vedic rules, one can buy vedic books and read. In many places in the Reader, he used to tell pages and pages about the vedic system and finally he used to tell, but according to Krishnamoorthy Padadhati...... It seem that to fill up the pages in the Readers, he dumped the materials not relevent to k.p. R.Dhanabalan--- On Tue, 8/5/08, tw853 <tw853 wrote: tw853 <tw853 Re: Karaka for father and mother Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 1:20 AM Take " Sun for father " and " Moon for mother " in KP and the reasons are as follows:1) Day born, night born is not the Guruji KSK's idea, for instance, in the case of Fortuna, the only one (day born) formular is used, even though there are 2 different formulars for the day born and night born in the Varshapha or Tajik (by Acharya Neelkantha, B.V. Raman, Sumeet Chugh), and the Western Pars Fortuna. Only the day time formula has been used by modern western astrologers like Llewellyn George (The New A to Z Horoscope Maker and Delineator), Robert Hand (Horoscope Symbol) and it is the same with William Lilly's procedure. The " Fortuna chater " in the original KP volume 1 is no more included in the KP Readers, which is in line with not to attribute too much to the Fortuna as per study of H J Gouchon, M P Hall, J Mayo and J Wilson. (Geoffrey Dean: Recent Advances in Natal Astrology, A Critical Review 1900-1976). 2) By reading 2 more pages under " Mother " , at the end under " KP " there is written " if the 4th cusp and Moon occupy the constellation of --- " , i.e. " 4th cusp and Moon " are for mother. 3) Among the headings about planets in the original KP volume 1 or KP Reader II, there are " Sun- The Father " and " Moon- The Mother " . The KP Reader II, with 100% reprinting contents from the the original KP volume 1, includes " ALL RIGHTS RESERVED BY THE AUTHOR " , which cannot be possible if the copyright of the original KP volume 1 & 2 were sold to the Sagar Publications. So it is not necessary to make changes in the KP Reader III to avoid the the copyright problem.4) One interesting reminder in p 371 of the original KP Vol. 2 is " not to carry away by any single statement, which will be similar to the story of blind men describing an elephant by feeling any one part of it " . It is not included in the KP Readers. @gro ups.com, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ ...> wrote:>> Dear members> > The karaka has to be considered while giving prediction. Venus for wife, mars for brother, etc. There is a rule in vedic and it find a place in volume II and Reader III. > > Please refer page 230 in Reader III (2004) and page 233 in volume II (1966) under the heading " MOTHER " . I reproduce the first para.> > " For people born during day time, Sun represents the father and Venus indicates the mother; but for those born during night time Saturn governs the father and Moon rules the mother. " > > Are we following this rule?> > Dhanabalan> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 The question why Guruji burdened us with so much Vedic/Traditional rules, thouh noe was used in KP method.GURUJI was in the process of establishing his Method. In this process you have to quote the existing systems, to establish that the old systems are not acceptable etc.This system of quoting the existing theors tprove your theory is prevelant since longEven today, students of DWAITA first study the ADWAITA pholosophy, understand it, and then show how it contradicts certain concept, show why they are not relevant, and then only propagate the Dwaita theory. Similary, Adwaita had to fight against Buddhism, before it was established by SRI SRI ShankaracharIn modern sciences, you have to study the existing theories,conclusions, before you establish a new theory or interpretation raichur anant mumbai--- On Tue, 8/5/08, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:Punit Pandey <punitpRe: Re: Karaka for father and mother Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 10:10 AM Dear Dhanabalan ji, Though the question is asked to Tw ji, but I would like to add my 2 cents here. In my opinion, there can be various reasons for having Vedic (i must say traditional, as KP system is also Vedic only IMO) rules in KP books. Here are few of the possibilities - 1. To fill-up the space as mentioned by you. The KP system can be very well summarized in a booklet of few pages, but that is not easy to sell in the market. 2. He was in process of researching those concept and by incorporating these traditional concepts in his readers, he made sure that further research and discussion will be done, the way we are doing right now. If this is the case, he was visionary as well other than an excellent astrologer. 3. He was a great fan of Vedic astrology, and wanted to make sure that we all understand Vedic astrology. We all know that most of the principles are driven from traditional astrology only. 4. An astrologer uses many rules in his life time. Many of them works for him and many fails. But astrologer picks the rules which are, other than correct, also easy and quick to apply. So there is a possibility that he used certain rules at certain time and those rules even worked for him, but he dropped those rules in favor of simplicity and ease of application. We all know that Sri KSK were in favor of systematic approach that was lacking in traditional astrology and I might have found that those rules, though correct, are very difficult to implement systematically. In the absence of Sri KSK, we don't have many options left to find out the answers of your questions. What we are doing is 'speculation' and with that we can not conclude anything, but just put our point forward. This is good to make member aware of certain possibilities, but facts and conclusions will remain missing. What we can also do is to test the mentioned rules by the way of practical application, and figure out the truth ourselves. The choice is ours - speculate or research. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyTwitter: http://twitter. com/punitastrolo gerFriendFeed: http://friendfeed. com/punitastrolo ger On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ > wrote: Dear tw853 When the rule is not applicable to k.p. and Mr.KSK is also not following that rule, what was the necessity to include in his original books and the present Reader. Why should he confuse the beginers. For knowing vedic rules, one can buy vedic books and read. In many places in the Reader, he used to tell pages and pages about the vedic system and finally he used to tell, but according to Krishnamoorthy Padadhati... ... It seem that to fill up the pages in the Readers, he dumped the materials not relevent to k.p. R.Dhanabalan--- On Tue, 8/5/08, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: tw853 <tw853 > Re: Karaka for father and mother@gro ups.com Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 1:20 AM Take "Sun for father" and "Moon for mother" in KP and the reasons are as follows:1) Day born, night born is not the Guruji KSK's idea, for instance, in the case of Fortuna, the only one (day born) formular is used, even though there are 2 different formulars for the day born and night born in the Varshapha or Tajik (by Acharya Neelkantha, B.V. Raman, Sumeet Chugh), and the Western Pars Fortuna. Only the day time formula has been used by modern western astrologers like Llewellyn George (The New A to Z Horoscope Maker and Delineator), Robert Hand (Horoscope Symbol) and it is the same with William Lilly's procedure. The "Fortuna chater" in the original KP volume 1 is no more included in the KP Readers, which is in line with not to attribute too much to the Fortuna as per study of H J Gouchon, M P Hall, J Mayo and J Wilson. (Geoffrey Dean: Recent Advances in Natal Astrology, A Critical Review 1900-1976). 2) By reading 2 more pages under "Mother", at the end under "KP" there is written "if the 4th cusp and Moon occupy the constellation of ---", i.e. "4th cusp and Moon" are for mother. 3) Among the headings about planets in the original KP volume 1 or KP Reader II, there are "Sun- The Father" and "Moon- The Mother". The KP Reader II, with 100% reprinting contents from the the original KP volume 1, includes "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED BY THE AUTHOR" , which cannot be possible if the copyright of the original KP volume 1 & 2 were sold to the Sagar Publications. So it is not necessary to make changes in the KP Reader III to avoid the the copyright problem.4) One interesting reminder in p 371 of the original KP Vol. 2 is "not to carry away by any single statement, which will be similar to the story of blind men describing an elephant by feeling any one part of it". It is not included in the KP Readers. @gro ups.com, Dhanabalan R <r.dhanabalan@ ...> wrote:>> Dear members> > The karaka has to be considered while giving prediction. Venus for wife, mars for brother, etc. There is a rule in vedic and it find a place in volume II and Reader III. > > Please refer page 230 in Reader III (2004) and page 233 in volume II (1966) under the heading "MOTHER". I reproduce the first para.> > "For people born during day time, Sun represents the father and Venus indicates the mother; but for those born during night time Saturn governs the father and Moon rules the mother."> > Are we following this rule?> > Dhanabalan> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.