Guest guest Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Dear Dhanabalan, Anthariksh and other members, Confussion has arrisen regarding signification of the nodes. I would like to forward my openion as follows. Criticisms and coments are cordially invited. It will enhance learning process. The following chart has been erected according to the data provided by Mr. Amthariksh. XII 0-44-51 Asc 9-20-01 Mon 22-49-13 II 9-53-12 III 5-19-06 IV 29-54-27 Mer 6:38:19 Sun 10-12-35 Ven 23-16-49 Ket 25-27-30 V 27:20:55 XI 27:20:55 Rah 25-27-30 Sat 13-15-23 Mar 21-17-40 X 29-54-27 <Jup 21-25-41 IX 5-19-06 VIII 9-53-12 VII 9-20-01 VI 0-44-51 Rahu 1. Sun, Venus and Mercury aspect Rahu. 2. No planet conjoins Rahu. 3. Constellation lord of Rahu is Mars 4. Rahu occupies Capricorn ruled by Saturn Sun signifies IV. So Rahu when joins Sun in ruling dasa, bhukti, antara or sookshma Rahu acts as a significator of IV. Mercury signifies III, IV and VI. So when Rahu is lord of any of DBAS during Mercury period, Rahu acts as a significator of these houses. So is with Venus, Mars and Saturn. Rahu acts as a significator of the houses signified by these planets during their periods. Rahu occupies sub own sub. It occupies X so it signifies that house. I conceive it won’t be wise to exclude Rahu during periods of Mars and Saturn showing reason that it is aspected by Sun, Mercury and Venus and not with Mars or Saturn. Kethu 1. Kethu conjoins Venus. So Kethu becomes significator of II, VII and IV. 2. Kethu occupies constellation of Mercury. So it signifies III, IV and VI. 3. It occupies Cancer. So it signifies Ascendant and V. So during DBAS of Kethu conjoined with DBAS of Venus, Kethu does signify II, VII and IV. Along with Mercury when they co-rule DBAS Kethu will take up maters of III, IV and VI. Kethu shall take up maters of Ascendant and V during the periods of Moon. It shall not be justifiable to say that it does not signify III,VI and V since it conjoins Venus that does not signifies these houses. The nodes will signify all these houses but show their activity for different houses during rule of different planets. Let us imagine the following chart where the cusps are same as in the above example. Let us refer to the statement of KSK. [ I ]“ If Rahu or Kethu were to be in either 6 or 8 or 12 if they are connected with the lords of Kendra or Kona houses i.e. (1, 4, 7 or 10; or 1, 5 or 9 then the native will enjoy the beneficial results during the sub period of such a lord---“ XII 0-44-51 Asc 9-20-01 II 9-53-12 Moon III 5-19-06 IV 29-54-27 V 27:20:55 XI 27:20:55 X 29-54-27 IX 5-19-06 Kethu 11-00-00 VIII 9-53-12 VII 9-20-01 VI 0-44-51 In the above chart Kethu occupies VIII. Moon lord of V one of the Kona houses aspects Kethu. So during the conjoined period of Moon and Kethu the native will enjoy all maters of V house i.e. welfare of children, gain form speculations and successful love affairs, growth of bank balance, addition of family members( spouse or offspring) etc. Does it mean that during periods of other planets it sits idle? Does it acquire power only during Moon’ rule since Moon aspects it? What shall be the role of Kethu during ruling periods of Saturn and Mars? I believe it gives the results of XI house maters during period of Saturn. It will bless with children during conjoined periods of Moon, Saturn and Kethu. Does any body deny it? Of course the sub lord of the planets and their transit need to be beneficial for a fruitful result. [ II ]”---and they suffer from disease, undergo varieties of difficulties, meet with accidents, and either succumb to such injuries or commit suicide or be drowned during the sub period of lord of 6 or 8 or 12”. In the same chart if we examine Kethu occupies VIII. That lies in Scorpio. Scorpio is ruled by Mars. So during conjoined period with Mars Kethu endangers with any of the incidents enumerated above. Thus KSK does not exclude Kethu signifying VII because Moon lord of V and occupant of II aspects Kethu. The statement “only when they are neither conjoined with, nor aspected by any planet, they represent the lord of the house” is an extract from Uthrakalamitra-Khanda VI Sloka 14 onwards. KSK has not expressed his support to this. He has mentioned many things from the Traditional system. He does not support all. He advises to follow only his principles. Therefore we need follow the explanations in [ I ] and { II ]. I hope I am clear. Dr. Luther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Luther 1) Mr.KSK discussed elaborately about Rahu/Ketu in volume I of sagar publications and gave his final verdict in page 36 of volume II. The same is repeated in page 130 of Reader III of 2004 edition. 2) About Rahu/Ketu, already discussed in detail in this group. I am reproducing some of my collections. RAHU/KETU RULES IN KP (by Tin Win in KP E-Zine, May 2007) I. BASIC RAHU/KETU RULES 1.1. Origin of Rahu/Ketu Rules (KP Reader II, 1983, page 315 ) Rahu or Ketu will act as a strong agent to the planets to which they are conjoined. If they are not conjoined with any planet, then they give the results of the planet which aspects them. Only when they are neither conjoined with, nor aspected by any planet, they represent the lord of the house. (Uthrakalamrita -- Khanda VI Sloka 14 onwards) 1.2. Rahu/Ketu Rules by Guruji KSK (KP Reader III, Old Edition/OE/, Part 1, page 123/New Edition /NE/ page 130; KP Reader V, 1983, page 123) 1) Rahu or Kethu indicates the results of planet which it is conjoined; 2) If no planet in conjunction, the results of planets aspecting it; 3) If neither conjoined nor aspected, the results of the constellation in which it is deposited; 4) Lastly the result of the sign in which it is deposited. 1.3. Similar Version by Sri C. B. Bhatt (Nakshatra Chintamani, page 19) Rahu/Ketu as PLANET gives: 1) Firstly, the results of the planet in conjunction with it, 2) Secondly, the results of the planet aspecting it, 3) Thirdly, the results of its own star lord, and 4) Fourthly, the results of the owner of the sign occupied by it. 1.4. A Slightly Different Version by Guruji KSK (by taking the STARLORD "before" the planet in aspect/ KP Reader VI, 1978/2002, pages 187/212/214/274/276) A node gives: 1) Firstly, the result of the planet or planets with which it is conjoined, 2) Secondly, of the star lord in which it is deposited, 3) Then, of the planet or planets aspecting it and 4) Lastly, of the lord of the sign in which it is deposited.. II. HOUSE OCCUPIED BY RAHU/KETU (KP Reader III, OE, Part 1, page 124 /NE, page 130/ KP Reader V, 1983, page 124) 2.1. The Role of House Occupied by Rahu/Ketu 1) Rahu or Kethu gives results to greater extent than what Starlord can offer. 2) Imagine as though Starlord is posited in that house in which Rahu or Ketu tenanted. 3) Also imagine that Starlord is posited in that bhava. And it gives results to greater extent. 2.2. KP Reader III, OE, Part 1, page 110/ NE, page 116/ KP Reader V, 1983, page 110 Rahu and Ketu will occupy a house. They govern the stars Arudhra, Swathi, Sathabisha, Aswini, Maka and Moola. So planets situated in these stars will offer the results as indicated by either Rahu or Kethu according to the house occupied by them. Further one should include the results of the lord of the constellation and then the lord of the sign in which Rahu and Kethu is posited. It is explained in the end of the chapter (i.e. as furnished in 1.2 and 2.1). III. A DIFFERENT APPROACH FOR RAHU/KETU AS STARLORD 3.1. Nakshatra Chintamani, page 19 (Sri C. B. Bhatt) If any planet is in the STAR of Rahu or Ketu, 1) that planet will signify the matters of the house occupied by Rahu or Ketu; 2) that planet will indicate the matters of the house owned and occupied by the Star lord of Rahu or Ketu; and 3) that planet will denote the matters of the house occupied and owned by the owner of the sign occupied by Rahu or Ketu. 3.2. It is similar to 2.2 including the house occupied and excluding the planets in conjunction and aspect. 3.3. The results of planets in conjunction and aspect for Rahu/Ketu as STARLORD is rarely applied in KP Readers as furnished in 1.2 and 2.2. of the Appendix. 3.4. It may be a little awkward in preparing a KP planet wise and star wise significator table while taking the starlord effects of Rahu/Ketu as STARLORD. IV. OTHER VIEWS 4.1. An interesting approach is noted in Astrosecrets & KP, Part 1, 2003, page 308 and 311 (Sri M.P. Shanmughan) and in KP Year Book 2002, page 40 (N. Pandu/N. Santhanalingam), that Rahu/Ketu will offer the results of a planet which is deposited in Rahu/Ketu star, eg. if Mars is deposited in Rahu star, Rahu will offer the results of houses 3 and10 owned by Mars. And then the results of planets in conjunction and aspect and starlord are mentioned to be considered. 4.2. In the 4 Step Method (invented by Sri Sunil Gonchalekar and explained by Sri Anant Raichur in English), Rahu/Ketu is taken as agent of the lord of sign occupied and as a significator of the house occupied.. If Rahu/Ketu is in conjunction with any planet within 3.33 degrees, this planet is also considered, and then the Starlord of Rahu/Ketu, the Sublod of Rahu/Ketu, and the Starlord of the Sublord are also considered. Only strong significators are considered by taking into account of occupation of starlord, Rahu/Ketu in own star, Rahu/Ket having no planet in its star and empty houses. Planets in aspect are not considered unless within 3.33 degrees. 4.3. The importance of strong significators is emphasized in Astrology for Beginners, Vol 5, page 669 (Sri K. Subramanium). Only if there are no planets in Rahu/Ketu star, Rahu/Ket will signify the house occupied. (If a planet is in Rahu/Ketu star, the planet will signify the house occupied by Rahu/Ketu.) Only if there are no planets in the star of the signlord, Rahu/Ketu will signify the results of the signlord. (If a planet is in the star of signlord, Rahu/Ketu will signify the houses occupied by the signlod and the starlod of the signlord and the houses owned by the STARLORD of the signlord, provided there is no planet in those houses). And then the results of the planets in conjunction and aspect are mentioned to be considered. ..V. RAHU/KETU’S ASPECTS 5.1. Since the Rahu/Ketu Rules in 1.2 and 2.1 are commonly used, the application of Rahu/Ketu’s aspects is not found in KP literature except Dr. Bal Krishna Singh Hatia applying Rahu `s 5th and 9th aspects in KP Year Book, 1999, page 26 and Sri Prof. K. Balachandran using Kethu's 7th, 9th and 12th (Hindu) aspects in KP Year Book, 2002, page 82-90. According to Parasara, Rahu aspects 5, 7, 9, and 12 fully (Uttara Kalamrita Kalidasa by Dr. P. S. Sastri, Edition 2001, page 43; Thanks to Ms. Sandy Crowther for giving reference.) and Jupiter-like aspects of Rahu/Ketu are used in Vedic Astrology. VI. SOME FINDINGS FROM EXAMPLES IN KP READERS 6.1. In examples regarding Rahu/Ketu Rules in KP Readers III, IV, V and VI (as furnishe in the Appendix), Hindu aspects and conjunction are used; the importance of strong significators is considered whenever appropriate by taking into account of the occupation of starlord, Rahu/Ketu in own star, Rahu/Ket having no planet in its star and empty houses. 6.2. Even though quoted "only when they are neither conjoined with, nor aspected by any planet, they represent the lord of the house." , whether Rahu/Ketu as Planet or Starlod or Sublord, the results of the followings are taken depending on relevance to the matter under consideration regardless of their sequence of order: 1) House occupied, 2) Planet in conjunction, 3) Planet in aspect and 4) Starlord, 5) Signlord, for instances: a) Conjunction/Starlord/Signlord Rules are applied together in Reader III OE Part 1 pages 142-3 (NE pages 149-50) and Reader VI pages 302/316; b) Conjuction/Aspect/ Signlord Rules are applied together in Reader IV page 111; c) Occupation/Aspect/Signlord Rules are applied together in Reader VI, page 190; d) Signlord Rule is applied neglecting the planet in conjunction in Reader III OE Part 2 pages 44-5/85 (NE pages 200-1/244-45). 6.3. Rahu/Ketu as agent of the planet in conjunction or aspect or signlord is supposed to give whatever the planet concerned is to signify (KP Reader VI, page 234) but only houses occupied and owned by the planet are commonly considered, and further results of the planet's Starlord are taken in some cases only, for instances: 1) Starlod of Starlord in Reader III OE Part 2 page 13 (NE page 166); 2) Starlord of Signlord in Reader III OE Part 2 page 85 (NE pages 244-45). 6.4. Generally the houses occupied and owned by STARLORD and the house occupied by Rahu/Ketu are shown by KP SWs, and in addition planets acted by Rahu/Ketu as agent and planets having no planet in their stars are also shown by KPAstro 2.5. VII. CONCLUSION In applying Rahu/Ketu Rules of house occupied, planets in conjunction and aspect, starlord and signlord, consideration of the priority and strong significators will be crucial when Rahu/Ketu plays a dual role in cases of life or death, marriage or denial etc. APPENDIX: APPLICATION OF RAHU/KETU RULES IN KP READERS 1. PLANET IN CONJUNCTION RULE 1.1. RAHU/KETU AS PLANET Reader III Old Edition (OE) Part 2 pages 11/85/140/206-7 (New Edition/NE/ pages 164/244-5/304/376-7) Reader IV (1984/2002) pages 111/133 Reader V (1983) page 200 Reader VI (1978/2002) pages 187/302 1.2. RAHU/KETU AS STARLOD Reader III OE Part 1 pages 142-3 (NE pages 149-50) 1.3. RAHU/KETU AS SUBLORD Reader III OE Part 2 pages 44-5/202 (NE pages 200-1/371) Reader IV page 106 Reader VI pages 312/316 2. PLANET IN ASPECT RULE 2.1. RAHU/KETU AS PLANET Reader III OE Part 2 pages 85/130/176/206-7/213(NE pages 244-5/294/344/376-7/383-4) Reader IV page 111 Reader VI page 187 2.2. RAHU/KETU AS STARLORD Reader VI page 190 2.3. RAHU/KETU AS SUBLORD Reader IV page 108 3. STARLORD RULE 3.1. RAHU/KETU AS PLANET Reader III OE Part 1 page 142/Part 2 pages 12-13/ 42/61/130 (NE pages 149/165-6/198/219/294) Reader IV pages 133/207-8/230 Reader VI pages 190/298/302 3.2. RAHU/KETU AS STARLORD Reader III OE Part 1 pages 142-3/ Part 2 pages 11/18/ 61/85/108 (NE pages 149-50/164/171/219/245/270) 3.3. RAHU/KETU AS SUBLORD Reader III OE Part 1 page 143/Part 2 page 61 (NE pages 150/219) Reader IV pages 106/108/145 Reader VI pages 226/291/316 4. SIGNLORD RULE 4.1. RAHU/KETU AS PLANET Reader III OE Part 1 page 142/Part 2 pages 11/39/66-7/85/108/144/150/152/176/199/202/206-7 (NE pages 149/164/194/223-4/245/270/308/na/318/344/368/371/376-7) Reader IV page 111/175/208/239 Reader V page 200-1 Reader VI pages 273/ 298/302 4.2. RAHU/KETU AS STARLORD Reader III OE Part 1 page 142-3/Part 2 pages 11/37/85/111/140/144 (NE pages 149-50/164/192/244-5//273/304/308) Reader IV pages 190/225 Reader V pages 141/200 4.3. RAHU/KETU AS SUBLORD Reader III OE Part 2 pages 18/37/44-5/202 (NE pages 171/192/200-1/371) Reader IV 106/108/145 Reader VI p 290/312/316 5. HOUSE OCCUPIED RULE 5.1. RAHU/KETU AS PLANET KP Reader III OE, Part 1 page142/Part 2 pages 11/61/80/149/155 (NE pages 149/164/219/238-9/315/320) KP Reader IV pages 197/239 KP Reader V pages 141/201 KP Reader VI pages 190/217/298 5.2. RAHU/KETU AS STARLORD Reader III OE Part 2 pages 12-3/39-40/85/154-5 (NE pages 165-6/193-4/244-5/320-1) Reader IV pages 207/225/227/239 Reader V pages 133/141/200 Reader VI page 190 5.3. RAHU/KETU AS SUBLORD Reader III Part 2 pages 61/143/155 (NE pages 219/307/320) Reader IV pages 106/197/227 Reader VI p 226/290 ---- Note on 4 step theory III.2. Rahu/Ketu Significators 6. The above same rules (in the point 5) apply to Rahu/Ketu, which gives the results of the planets conjoined and aspecting within the 3d:20m orb, its star-lord and its sign-lord in the ascending order. As a practical starting point, the house occupied by Rahu/Ketu, and the house occupied and the houses owned by its sign-lord are usually taken into consideration. Only if Rahu/Ketu is itself the ‘primary significator’(as per the principles in the point 5), then the planets conj or aspt, star-lord and sign-lord also will become the ‘primary significators’. If Rahu/ Ketu is itself the secondary significator only, then they also will be the secondary significators even though they are by themselves the primary significators. In the attached example chart 1, since Rahu is a primary significator in any step of 4 steps by being in its own star, its ‘Sgl Ve and conj Ju’ also become the primary significators. In the attached example chart 2, Rahu is a primary significator in the steps 2 and 4 but not in the steps 1 and 3. (R1, pages 30, 41-42, R2, R9) (R1 means the Reference item no 1.) 7. An emphasis is given to take into consideration of the house occupied and the houses owned by the star-lord of Rahu/Ketu when it is the star-lord of another planet, ie. Rahu/Ketu in the step 2 or 4. Its star-lord gives stronger results than its signlord. The primary significators of the conjoined and aspecting planets are also to be added as relevant. The results of the conjoined or aspecting planets or star-lord (when Rahu/Ketu is a primary significator) should be given first priority, then the sign-lord can not give its results. In the attached example chart 2, for the primary significator Rahu as a Stl of Su, ‘Asp by Ju(3,10) and Stl Mo(2,7)’ are supposed to be stronger than ‘Sgl Me(4)’, which is assumed not to give its results in such case. (R 1, pages 28, 30, 41-42, 61, 77, 79, R5, Msg#14976, #14998) (Msg# means the Messages in this KP Group.) 8. The KP Rahu/Ketu rules are only the Kalidasa’s “rules of the results of planets conjoined and aspecting and the sign-lord” plus “Guruji KSK’s star-lord rule”, nothing else, and the same rules followed by ‘Shri Bhatt’ and the Four Step Theory can be seen in Msg#1832, #3231 and Msg #8911 or Ra/Ke rules in the KP E-Zine May 2007, in which each and every practical application of the Rahu/Ketu rules applied by Guruji KSK in his all Readers has been studied and the other views in the KP literature have been provided. It can also be found there whether there are two separate Rahu/Ketu rules as mentioned in Msg#14976 and whether Shri Bhatt could not judge how nodes give the results as mentioned in Msg14998#. 9. It is worthy to note that Rahu is called as a blemish planet, which creates problems and does not give results effectively to the native when it is in the DBA. If Rahu is a strong significator of improving houses in all 4 steps, which is not found in most cases, then it won’t create problems. Ketu does not create problems if it is supporting favorable houses. (Messages in other group) II.3. Additional Primary Significators from the KP ‘E’ Grade Significators 10. The special rules of upgrading the weak KP ‘E’ grade significators to the additional primary significators are as follows: 1) Conjunction with Cusp, 2) Conjunction between Planets, 3) Aspect on Cusp, and 4) Aspect between Planets. II.3.1. Conjunction with Cusp 11. If a planet is in conjunction with a cusp within 3d:20m orb, behind (before) the cusp or ahead (after) the cusp, the planet is ‘automatically’ taken as a primary significator of this cusp in ‘any step’ of 4 steps, irrespective of other planets being in the house whose cusp is conjoined by the planet or the planet not being a primary significator. One may wonder whether a planet can become a primary significator by the mere conjunction with a cusp within 3d:20m orb. In the case of conjunction before the cusp, the physically occupied house is also taken into consideration as a significator, and it will also become a primary significator when the relevant planet is a primary significator. In such a case, the planet becomes a primary signifcator of the conjoined house as well as the previous house, which is a negative house for the conjoined house. The 3d:20m orb can be increased up to 4-5 degree especially for the fast moving planets (Sun, Mars, Mercury and Venus) and the very fast moving Moon. (R 1, pages 20-24, 27, 49, 53, 57, 61,67, 91; R2, Part-4 & 5; Msg#13680, #13882, #14148, #14976) 12. In the example chart 1, ‘Ven conj 6’ is a conjunction before 6th cusp, and ‘Me conj 7, Ju conj 3, Ra conj 3, Ke conj 9’ are the conjunctions after the cusps. In the case of ‘Ven conj 6’ before the cusp, the physically occupied house 5th is also taken in to consideration. When Venus becomes a primary significator by being the star-lord of Mars in the step 2, both 5 and 6 houses become primary significators, offering 6th and 5th, ‘12th to 6th’, at the same time, which are opposing to each other such as gain and loss, sickness and cure etc. II.3.2. Conjunction of Planets 13. If a planet is conjoined with another planet within 3d:20m orb, the planet becomes a primary significator of another planet, only if the original planet itself is a primary significator (as per the rules in the point 5). These two planets (excluding Rahu/Ketu) in conjunction will offer the results to each other. However, in the case of ‘Ra/Ke conj another planet’, ‘only’ Rahu/Ketu offers the results of the conjoined planet as an agent of this planet but the conjoined planet cannot offer the results of Rahu/Ketu. (R 1, pages 27-28, 41-42, 51-53, R2-Part 4 & 5; Msg #13882, #14140) 14. In the example chart 1, in the case of ‘Su conj Me’, Sun gives the results of Mercury when Sun becomes a primary significator by being the star-lord of Venus in the step 2. On the other side, Mercury, having no planet in its star, offers the results of Sun in any step of 4 steps. However, in the case of ‘Ra conj Ju’, ‘only’ Rahu offers the results of Jupiter as an agent of Jupiter since Rahu is a primary significator by being in its own star. Here a caution is that Jupiter cannot give the results of Rahu, like Jupiter giving the results of Ketu in the case of ‘Ke conj Ju’ in the example of the R 2-Part 4. Similarly Jupiter, which is the sign-lord of Rahu, cannot offer the results of Ra(2,8) in the first 2 steps like being mentioned to do so in Msg#14867, even though Rahu is an agent of Jupiter. Rahu/Ketu will give whatever the planet is to give when it is an agent of this planet but the planet can not give the results of RahuKetu. It is an agent of the planets conjoined and aspecting and the sign-lord but it does not act as an agent of its star-lord. II.3.3. Aspect on Cusp 15. If a planet throws the Hindu aspects on the cusps (not houses) within the 3d:20m orb, the planet becomes a primary significator of these cusps, only if the ‘original’ planet itself is a primary significator (as per the rules in the point 5), irrespective of other planets being in the aspected houses. Ketu’s 7th aspect on the ‘cusp’ within 30d:20m orb is taken into consideration, implying to take Rahu’s similar aspect also. (R 1, pages 28, 34, 70, 87, #14976, #14998) 16. In the example chart 1, Jupiter aspects 7, 9, 11 cusps. Since Jupiter is a primary significator with no planet in its star, it becomes a primary significator of 7, 9, 11 houses. In the example chart 2, Saturn aspects 2 only and as a primary significator by having no planet in its star, it becomes a primary significator of the 2nd house. ‘Me asp 7, Ju asp 9, Ve asp 12, Ra asp 9, Ke asp 3’ are all the ‘7th’ aspects. While aspecting these cusps, the planets are conjoined with the opposite cusps, ie. ‘Me conj 1, Ju conj 3, Ve conj 6, Ra conj 3, Ke conj 9. Thus these planets become the significators of opposite houses, ie. Me for 1 & 7; Ju for 2 & 9; Ve for 6 & 12; Ra for 3 & 9; Ke for 9 & 3 (Ra /Ke for the same 3 & 9) . One may think whether the same planet can signify the opposite houses, indicating opposite matters and how Rahu or Ketu can aspect the opposite cusp and consequently signify all the same opposite houses. (Msg#3316, #14708, #14843, #14987, #15079) In KP the aspect of Rahu/Ketu is not considered since it is only the sensitive intersecting point in the pathway of Sun and Moon. In the chart in the R5, where Sun (Sc 09-03) is conjoined with the 12th cusp (Sc 10-59) and aspects the 6th cusp (Ta 10-59), signifying the opposite houses of financial gain (6th) and loss (12th) at the same time, which are opposing to each other. Whether to take into consideration of all primary significators or to exclude some of them, especially significators by 7th aspect is up to the own judgment and preference of an astrologer. If 7th aspect is not taken into consideration, Rahu/Ketu’s opposite 7th aspect on a cusp will be automatically ruled out. Depending on which option is chosen, the result can be entirely different, for instance in the example chart in Msg#14714, Antara lord Venus can give marriage if ‘Su asp 7’ is taken into consideration in the 4th step, otherwise marriage is denied in Venus Antara by the primary signification of ‘totally negative’ houses 1, 12 in the 4th step. 17. The Rahu/Ketu conjunction with a cusp within the 3d:20m orb is not rare as said in Msg#14976 but common as shown below: 1) R1, chart no 5, ‘Ketu conj 3’ 2) R1, chart no 8, ‘Ketu conj 12’ 3) R1, chart no 10, ‘Ketu conj 1’ 4) R1, chart no 16, ‘Ketu conj 2’ 5) R1, chart no 17, ‘Ketu conj 9’ 6) R2- Part 2, example chart, ‘Ke conj 10’ 7) R2- Part 4, example chart, ‘Ke conj 3’ 8) R2- Part 5, example chart, ‘Ke conj 11’ 9) Msg#5258, example chart, ‘Ke conj 10’ 10) Msg#13680, example chat, Ke conj 6’ 11) Msg#14700, example chart, ‘Ketu conj 3’ 12) Msg#14711, example chart, ‘Ketu conj 9’ 13) Msg#14787, example chart, ‘Ket conj 9’ 14) SUB LORD SPEAKS LIX 1st example, ‘Ket conj 8’ ------------------ Rahu/Ketu as Significators I know that Rahu and Ketu are significators of the same house as their dispositor. But can someone please let me know whether they are also the significators of OTHER houses where that dispositor is also a significator. Example Rahu is in Pisces and would be a significator of houses where Jupiter is Lord. However in this case say Jupiter is a significator in the sign where Moon is Lord ie Cancer, would Rahu also be considered as significator for this house? I think you've already checked the same explanation about signification of Rahu's depositor in KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 124, Rahu & Ketu, and Nakshatra Chuntamani, pp 18-19 that Rahu denotes the matters of the house or houses owned by depositor and the house occupied by depositor, only when Rahu is neither conjoined with, nor aspected by any planet. This condition (Uthrakalamrita) is strictly applied by K. Sbramanium, i.e. not to take the depositor if conjioning or aspecting planets are already taken. The rules for Rahu/Ketu are clear cut. They ACT as agents of 1. the planet withwhich they are conjoined 2. Thier Star Lord 3. Planets which Aspect Them 4. The Lord of the Sign in which they reside This in order of importance. Naturally if Rahu is agent of Jupiter, he will signify whatever Jupiter signifies. 1 I see the explanation is not easy to follow. The best way is to start from p 18. Rahu indicates: 1)as agent of conjoined Moon, 7 owned by Moon and 2 occupied by Moon; 2) as agent of aspecting Mars,4,11 owned by Mars and 7 occupied by Mars; 3)as agent of aspecting Jupiter , 3,12 owned by Jupiter and 10 occupied by Jupiter; 4) Rahu is in star Mercury, owner of 6,9 and occupant of 7, and Rahu occupies 2; (This signification is the usually shown in computer print-out,i.e. in order of rank A-7; B-2; C-6,9: D--); 5) Rahu's depositor Jupiter, ruler of 3,12 and occupant of 10. 2. Pl note, in p 19, "Rahu-Ketu as planet", it's written as if 4th step signifiaction of 7,6,9 houses is not taken because Rahu is in conj and aspect with Moon, Mars and Jupiter. It should also be taken even houses indicated by conj or aspt planets are already taken. In fact it's taken in Tab C, p15. Another important point is, as mentioned before, not to take houses indicated by depositor since we've taken houses indicated by conj and aspt Moon, Mars & Jupiter (which is also depositor, even if another planet other than Jupiter not to take it as per K Subramanium quoting Uthrakalamrita, p 315, KP Reader II, 1983). When we talk about Rahu/Ketu being representing planets they are conjoined with,can some one clarify .Should Rahu/Ketu and the planet have the same star-lord,same cusp. Sometimes a cusp separates planets though they may be in the same rashi.Viewed in general what is the maximum longitudinal separation.Source references appreciated. Dear TW853, Our Guru while writing the KP readers was evolving the rules. He was genius.Many changes keep on occuring on these rules. However, I am not raising any issue regarding change of rules etc. I am trying to say: In Kp we are working at three levels. 1] Source planet. X 2]star planet Y & 3]sub planet Z X planet in its dasa/bhukti will give results of what star planet says. X signifies Y. X gives results of Y. Where Y is posted that house and house owned by Y. These results are further modified [also fruitfulness of X] by sub planet Z, where X is posted. Now Rahu in a sign represents that sign but Rahu in a star of a planet will give its results. In first case it is Rahu represents sign lord as first source planetX. In second case it gives results of Star planet. So this is a big difference. If you understand what I say above, then you may see thousands of examples by Guruji or later writers,this is how it is to be interpreted. Give me any contradiction example. --I would like to draw the attention of members to page 308, ASTROSECRETS & KRISHNAMURTI PADDATI-PART-1, BY M.P.SHANMUGAM 'All the planets from sun to saturn, in which star they are deposited, will predominately offer the results of the house that starlord occupies and then the houses owned by that starlord. But rahu & ketu offer results in a different and opposite way.There are other levels of strength built in rahu/ketu and strange are the ways, as they offer the results. 1.Any planet deposited in the star of rahu/ketu, it is rahu/ketu that will offer the results of that planet. 2.When found NO planet in the stars of rahu/ketu, the nodes will offer the results of the planets that are conjoined with them. 3.Any planet, that aspects rahu/ketu, the nodes will give results of the aspecting planets. 4.When no planet is aspecting rahu/ketu, when no planet is conjoined with Ra/KE, when no planet is in the stars of rahu/ketu THEN ONLY rahu/ketu offers the results of the constellation lord in whose constellation they are deposited.i.e where the constellation lord is and the houses by that constellation lors predominately. 5.of the nodes, ra/ke to offer results as explained above, it is rahu who has more strengthto offer the results. ------------ RAHU KETU RELEASE Basic rule is: A planet signfies the star lord where it is posted. This is applicable to Rahu/ketu. Suppose Rahu is in star of Venus , rahu will signfy Venus its position and houses venus owns. But conjunction/aspect or sign owner is not signficator of rahu. But rahu represent these. Say Mer is conjunt Rahu in Leo , then Rahu is representing Sun and Mercury. Now say mercury is in star of Jupiter. So Merury signfies Jupiter. When will you get Mercury results. Planets in the star of Rahu will give rahu results that means Mercury signfying Jupiter's results. At sub level rahu sub means what is being signfied by rahu. Rahu will signfy the star lord where it is posted. It will also signfy rahu itself if no planets are in the star of rahu. So primarily it signfy star and secondarily it signfies rahu itself. In case of Rahu Ketu sub,........ what I have seen is that we have to take primarily the star lord of Rahu/Ketu and then secondarily the sign lord. Suppose Rahu is in star of then Rahu in its period will give the results of Star lord placement and ownership. Suppose is posted in 10th, and owner of 2 & 9 then Rahu will give results of 10th, 2, & 9. The planets [a] ,[c], & [d] will be source planets of the results of planet acting as significators of Rahu. So for significance of Rahu we need to primarily take a], c], & d]. Not b] which comes into picture different way. ---- Dear Inder, Our Guru while writing the KP readers was evolving the rules. He was genius. Many changes keep on occuring on these rules. 1. Could you be kind enough to mention some of "Many changes keep on occuring on these rules" for the benefits of KP learners like me, of course with articular references for our study. Because nothing hasn't been found in this regards, when I've earlier gone through all of your KP "reading many many charts" in · Jyotish (Vedic Astrology) and Remedies group with the hope to learn whatever available for KP. However, I am not raising any issue regarding change of rules etc 2. Issue = question that raises for discussion, the point being discussed (Oxford Advanced learners's Dictionary of Current English by Hornby ) Dear Raichur, You mentioned that Rahu is significator of : a] Planets conjoined. b] Rahu's star lord? c] Planets aspecting Rahu. & d] Lord of sign where they reside. Here needs some cosideration. Suppose a planet P is in the constellation of Rahu then, P in its periods will give results of [a], [c], & [d] but not of . Suppose Rahu is in star of then Rahu in its period will give the results of Star lord placement and ownership. Suppose is posted in 10th, and owner of 2 & 9 then Rahu will give results of 10th, 2, & 9. The planets [a] ,[c], & [d] will be source planets of the results of planet acting as significators of Rahu. So for significance of Rahu we need to primarily take a], c], & d]. Not b] which comes into picture different way. Please react to my above understanding of KP rules. Inder I am trying to say: In Kp we are working at three levels. 1] Source planet. X 2]star planet Y & 3]sub planet Z X planet in its dasa/bhukti will give results of what star planet says. X signifies Y. X gives results of Y. Where Y is posted that house and house owned by Y. These results are further modified [also fruitfulness of X] by sub planet Z, where X is posted. 3. "Hence Planet is the source, constellation indicates nature of the result and the SUB is a deciding factor whether the matter is favourable or not". (KP Reader III, 1984, Part 2, p 129; Reader V, 1983, p 129) "But the `deciding' factor, good or bad, success or failure is shown by the sub occupied by the significator." (Reader III, p 138; Reader V, p 138; Reader VI, p 81) Now Rahu in a sign represents that sign but Rahu in a star of a planet will give its results. In first case it is Rahu represents sign lord as first source planetX. In second case it gives results of Star planet. So this is a big difference. If you understand what I say above, then you may see thousands of examples by Guruji or later writers,this is how it is to be interpreted. Give me any contradiction example. 4. This "big difference" has been very clearly differentiated by sample language of "Rahu and Kethu as planet" for your first case and "Rahu and Kethu as starlord" for your second case in tems of Nakshatra Chintamani and "If the node itself is DBA lord" for your first case and "If any DBA lord in the star of nodes" for your second case in my elder brother's letter. 5. Sincec this a basic factual statement that there is a difference between the results of Rahu and Kethu as a planet and as a sublord, there is no contradiction or agreement or controversy without requiring any example. If you can, any example, preferably from KSK's, is highly appreciated for better understanding of what you're saying "any contradiction example." 2. But why western aspects (not Hindu)? Hindu aspects have been used in examples of KP Readers III, IV, V & VI even though a study of western aspects is encouraged by Guruji KSK. 6. In response to the above question to you, could you kindly provide any single KSK example of applying western aspects from thousands as mentioned by you. Everything I learnt is from KP Readers and my experience mostly on Internet reading many many charts. 7. With your kind permission, could I repost some of your KP "reading many many charts" (in · Jyotish (Vedic Astrology) and Remedies group) here in our forum for other KP learners like me to gain practical knowledge on the basis of real charts ?. Or Reposting of your own selection of the most appropraiate readings is highly appreciated for the benefit of KP learners because such readings of yours are not yet available here up to now. The poimts which I am saying about Rahu/Ketu significators are not being understood. In Kp lenghty explainations makes things difficult to comprehend many times. 8. What you're saying first case and second case is well understood as mentioned above and nothing new or controversial since it is just a factual statement that there is a difference between the results of Rahu as a planet and Rahu as a sublord. 9. Regarding another point what you're saying, for Rahu as a sublord (in simple language) for significance of Rahu we need to primarily take a], c], & d]. Not b] which comes into picture different way." I've already mentioned that Bhatt and my elder KP brother do not inclued the result of b/ for the case "Rahu as a sublord" and any KSK example has not yet been found for the inclusion of the b/ result in such a case, i.e. what i've mentioned is nothing contrary with your statement. 10. However contrary to your saying of "KP lengthy expalnation", even though we love to read KSK's writing as much as possible,the "explanation" about Rahu/Kethu signification is only quarter page of p 123 and about half page of p 124 in KP Reader III; the mentioned a/ to d/ four rules are repeated in KP Reader VI, 1978, pp 187, 212, 274 & 276 in full and p 207 & p 232 in part but just statement "without any explanation"; in Reader II, p 316 statement in part and a paragraph of background reference from Uthrakalamrita, p 315. How to know if a person is destined to have miscarriage. If 5 CSL signifies birth of child (2,5,11) and its Sublord is a significator of 10, 12, 4 (i.e.,6, 8, 12 from 5). Does this indicate miscarriage / abortion of the first child? Answer: For miscarriage in addition to sub being significator of bad houses also see that KETU is involved. For abortion see 3rd cusp and Rahu are involved. Also see the relevant planets being in barren zones [Moola, Aruda etc], and barren signs. 10, 12 and 4th. in addition to these also see 8th. Saturn in 5th also cause abortive nature. See if relevant bhukti or antra lord is in sub signfying Sat in 5th. Cool and thoughtful judgement is required. Good aspects/association ward of evil. Please go through the above and offer your comments. I welcome your further discussion about Rahu/Ketu. R.Dhanabalan--- On Tue, 7/29/08, Luther Rath <rathluther wrote: Luther Rath <rathluther Signification by nodes Cc: antariksh_80Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 3:11 AM Dear Dhanabalan, Anthariksh and other members, Confussion has arrisen regarding signification of the nodes. I would like to forward my openion as follows. Criticisms and coments are cordially invited. It will enhance learning process. The following chart has been erected according to the data provided by Mr. Amthariksh. XII 0-44-51 Asc 9-20-01 Mon 22-49-13 II 9-53-12 III 5-19-06 IV 29-54-27 Mer 6:38:19 Sun 10-12-35 Ven 23-16-49 Ket 25-27-30 V 27:20:55 XI 27:20:55 Rah 25-27-30 Sat 13-15-23 Mar 21-17-40 X 29-54-27 <Jup 21-25-41 IX 5-19-06 VIII 9-53-12 VII 9-20-01 VI 0-44-51 Rahu 1. Sun, Venus and Mercury aspect Rahu. 2. No planet conjoins Rahu. 3. Constellation lord of Rahu is Mars 4. Rahu occupies Capricorn ruled by Saturn Sun signifies IV. So Rahu when joins Sun in ruling dasa, bhukti, antara or sookshma Rahu acts as a significator of IV. Mercury signifies III, IV and VI. So when Rahu is lord of any of DBAS during Mercury period, Rahu acts as a significator of these houses. So is with Venus, Mars and Saturn. Rahu acts as a significator of the houses signified by these planets during their periods. Rahu occupies sub own sub. It occupies X so it signifies that house. I conceive it won’t be wise to exclude Rahu during periods of Mars and Saturn showing reason that it is aspected by Sun, Mercury and Venus and not with Mars or Saturn. Kethu 1. Kethu conjoins Venus. So Kethu becomes significator of II, VII and IV. 2. Kethu occupies constellation of Mercury. So it signifies III, IV and VI. 3. It occupies Cancer. So it signifies Ascendant and V. So during DBAS of Kethu conjoined with DBAS of Venus, Kethu does signify II, VII and IV. Along with Mercury when they co-rule DBAS Kethu will take up maters of III, IV and VI. Kethu shall take up maters of Ascendant and V during the periods of Moon. It shall not be justifiable to say that it does not signify III,VI and V since it conjoins Venus that does not signifies these houses. The nodes will signify all these houses but show their activity for different houses during rule of different planets. Let us imagine the following chart where the cusps are same as in the above example. Let us refer to the statement of KSK. [ I ]“ If Rahu or Kethu were to be in either 6 or 8 or 12 if they are connected with the lords of Kendra or Kona houses i.e. (1, 4, 7 or 10; or 1, 5 or 9 then the native will enjoy the beneficial results during the sub period of such a lord---“ XII 0-44-51 Asc 9-20-01 II 9-53-12 Moon III 5-19-06 IV 29-54-27 V 27:20:55 XI 27:20:55 X 29-54-27 IX 5-19-06 Kethu 11-00-00 VIII 9-53-12 VII 9-20-01 VI 0-44-51 In the above chart Kethu occupies VIII. Moon lord of V one of the Kona houses aspects Kethu. So during the conjoined period of Moon and Kethu the native will enjoy all maters of V house i.e. welfare of children, gain form speculations and successful love affairs, growth of bank balance, addition of family members( spouse or offspring) etc. Does it mean that during periods of other planets it sits idle? Does it acquire power only during Moon’ rule since Moon aspects it? What shall be the role of Kethu during ruling periods of Saturn and Mars? I believe it gives the results of XI house maters during period of Saturn. It will bless with children during conjoined periods of Moon, Saturn and Kethu. Does any body deny it? Of course the sub lord of the planets and their transit need to be beneficial for a fruitful result. [ II ]”---and they suffer from disease, undergo varieties of difficulties, meet with accidents, and either succumb to such injuries or commit suicide or be drowned during the sub period of lord of 6 or 8 or 12”. In the same chart if we examine Kethu occupies VIII. That lies in Scorpio. Scorpio is ruled by Mars. So during conjoined period with Mars Kethu endangers with any of the incidents enumerated above. Thus KSK does not exclude Kethu signifying VII because Moon lord of V and occupant of II aspects Kethu. The statement “only when they are neither conjoined with, nor aspected by any planet, they represent the lord of the house” is an extract from Uthrakalamitra- Khanda VI Sloka 14 onwards. KSK has not expressed his support to this. He has mentioned many things from the Traditional system. He does not support all. He advises to follow only his principles. Therefore we need follow the explanations in [ I ] and { II ]. I hope I am clear. Dr. Luther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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