Re:Various calendars of ancient India

April 27, 2009

Dear Harimallaji,

It is nonsense and rather criminal to think of changing the names of the real

things and give some fictitious names to them. That will amount to cheating. The

future generations would not excuse the perpetrators of such crimes. I did

not give the advice that you change the name of the present day Uttarayana to

Dhanu Sankranti. If at all it is considered to be a life and death

question by any persdn then that person can celebrate the Uttarayana day in the

Dhanu Rashi but he can under no circumstances give a false name to it . Makar

Sankranti cannot be observed in the Dhanu Rashi. So my advice will be to leave

the Sankranti business alone. Dixit probably had enough of common sense to leave

the issue at that. In the Vedic times the Sankranti was not observed. It became

only a Lokachara to observe the Makar sankranti when the Winter Solstice

occurred in the Makar Rashi and thereafter. One must have common sense and leave

the

celebration of the Uttarayana day alone as there is no mentuion of it in the

Vedic literature. Heaven will not fall if you do not observe the Uttarayana

day. If one is very keen on observing the Uttarayana day then he can join the

Christmas parties.

Thanks

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Sun, 4/26/09, Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:

Hari Malla <harimalla

Re:Various calendars of ancient India

Cc: " AKKaul Kaul " <HinduCalendar >

Sunday, April 26, 2009, 9:51 PM

Dear Bhattacharyaji,

Yes sir, this indeed is a very good point you have mentioned. <If however

anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody

should raise any objection to that.>

This is the summary of calender reform.This dhanu sankranti for uttaryan and

mangsir purnima for magh snana is the best proposal for calaender reform.Thank

you for this acceptance.

Because S.B. Dixit thinks it would be impossible to adopt new names for

festivals and in suspport of him, I have supported to change the name of dhanu

sankkranti into makar sanakranti and mangsir punrima as poush purnima so that

our cultural names remain as such..Now my final question is as follows:

1.Do you think there is any difficulty in changing the names like this and keep

record so that we can do our date keeping of history by nirayan method as

before? This way we need not change the wordings in our dharma shaastras where

uttarayan is mentioned as makar sankranti.

2.For those who want to do prediction by the nirayan method as before, what if

we accept the rashis with the new names for those who want to do so and also let

the old rahsi continue for those who want to continue with the old rashis? This

freedom given to the phalilt jyotishis should in my view solve the probelm of

canlendar reform.

Thanking you ,I remain,

sincerey yours,

Hari Malla

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>

ancient_indian_ astrology

Monday, April 27, 2009 8:36:26 AM

Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Various calendars of ancient India

Dear Harimallaji,

I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want to dislodge

the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. The only difference

is that you now want to combine the lunar months with the Tropical months. The

Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a

combination of the sidereal Solar calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar.

If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in the Vedic

literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred in those times.

That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic literatures from these data.

From the Mahabharata time onward the Rashis came into use and that was around

3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson

of Arjuna, about a century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the

Rashis. Thus the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in

the pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's

Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the

composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed by the

disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it to be in 1400

BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in the 1500 BCE and hence

it could not have

been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of mentioning

Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of Nakshatra and said that

it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been mentioned in the third person.

On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said that when the Sun was in the Makar

Rashi there was Uttarayana. Therefore it is only proper that we should mention

the Rashi in which the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not

occur in the Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't

observe the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to

observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any

objection to that.

Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.The

former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or Tropical year and the

later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or Sidereal year. In a sidereal year

the sun passes through a Nakshatra only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes

through a Nakshatra thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason

the Lunar sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though

the month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must

accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in this

paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier (ie.first)

paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem in any calendar

system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal months only the Equinoxes and

the Solstices may be mentioned in the Luni-Solar calendar.

AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian calendar. The

Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following the Winter solstice

day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun.. In the 4th century CE when the

Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December then the next day ie. 25th December

was to be the observed as the birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred

that day to be observed as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory

did correct the Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became

synonymous with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do

ie to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day.

Sincerely

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Sun, 4/26/09, Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com> wrote:

Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com>

Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Various calendars of ancient India

ancient_indian_ astrology

Sunday, April 26, 2009, 10:30 AM

Dear Nairji,

My main objection is for the tropical solar months as madhu madhav or tapa

tapasya.These are not true.The proof is in vedanga jyotish.

If you read vedanga jyotish,the 6th sloka says when the moon and the sun rise

together in dhanistha,at that time the five year yuga,month of maagha,tapa sukla

pakshya and uttrayan start together.

My claim is that the months are not solar but soli-lunar.here if you study the

quote, month of maagha means when the lunar month with the fullmoon is on maghaa

nakshyatra and tapa sukla pakshya means the tropical soli-lunar month's bright

half.There is no room for a solar month here.

Even you had quoted in your previous article that in the vedas 'the months come

from the moon'.Then where is the scope of madhu madhav or tapa tapasya etc to

be tropical solar.

If you can find specific quotes that they are solar please give.Otherwise please

accept that they are soli-lunar seasonal months without hesitation, as the proof

is clear in vedanga jyotish.Those days, the year was solar or soli-lunar but

month was not solar.the seasons were soli-lunar.The ayans were also in lunar

dates,-like maagha sukla pratipada representing uttaryan.This festival was known

as magha snana.We celebrate maagha snana now a days on poush purnima, since it

was shifted to it after the sidhanta period.Thank you.

Sincerely yours,

Hari Malla

April 27, 2009

I fully endorse the view of Mr Sunil K Bhattacharjya here. Those persons should

not tamper with panchangas who do not know how to make them.

To Sunil Ji :

I sent this message to another member today, who is helping me with ancient data

to work on. You maybe interested too. though you have a different viepoint, you

are a scholar who may find some worth in this piece of information :

<<<

Huber, Rochberg, and all moderns are plagued by a common incurable

disease : they impose physical astronomy upon astrology, which makes a

mockery of astrology. Watch Table 2.2 of Rochberg (in his book 'Babylonian

Horoscopes') carefully, it shows 13.6 degree

error in Moon and over 6* in other planets. Rochberg says 1-2* errors in

observation was possible, but his Table 2.2 shows far greater " error " . Were

Babylonians so fools as to make so great errors ?

Astrology is not based upon physical astronomy. But this cannot be

taught to mainstream physical scientists who do not have any interest and any

belief in astrology, and do not accept anything as real which cannot be

sensorily perceived either directly or by means of instruments,

including soul, God or deities known as astrological planets. I do not believe

in thisphysical method, which gives great errors in ancient horoscopes and

related data.

Cuneiform tablets with horoscopes have no dates on them, dating is done

with the help of physical astronomy, which gives unacceptable errors as

pointed out above. I have worked out the birthdate of Prophet Muhammad

which explains all major events of his life beautifully. Unfortunately,

it also proves that pre-Islamic calendar was same as was practized in

India then. Hence, I cannot publish this paper. there are too many

fanatics, who know pre-Islamic Arabia was not Islamic, yet will be

enraged.

There are many scholars who believe in a common source of astrology /

astronomy, due to so many common themes in ancient methods of China,

India, Mid East, etc.

I will have to prepare a separate computer program for checking

cuneiform horoscopes and find some date which can minimize their

apparent errors, which Rochberg and Huber could not bring down below 13

degrees. It is a time consuming task, and is not worth the labour

involved in such an exercize with so scanty data. If you provide me

with more cuneiform / Hittite / Egyptian horoscopes, I will certainly

make a special computer program for checking them astrologically. I

have already embarked upon this program with two cuneiform horoscopes : Text-10

and Text-16b.

>>>

-VJ

===================== =====================

________________________________

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

Cc: ; vedic_research_institute ;

WAVES-Vedic ; IndiaArchaeology ;

Monday, April 27, 2009 1:50:28 PM

Re: Re:Various calendars of

ancient India

Dear Harimallaji,

It is nonsense and rather criminal to think of changing the names of the real

things and give some fictitious names to them. That will amount to cheating. The

future generations would not excuse the perpetrators of such crimes. I did not

give the advice that you change the name of the present day Uttarayana to Dhanu

Sankranti. If at all it is considered to be a life and death question by any

persdn then that person can celebrate the Uttarayana day in the Dhanu Rashi but

he can under no circumstances give a false name to it . Makar Sankranti cannot

be observed in the Dhanu Rashi. So my advice will be to leave the Sankranti

business alone. Dixit probably had enough of common sense to leave the issue at

that. In the Vedic times the Sankranti was not observed. It became only a

Lokachara to observe the Makar sankranti when the Winter Solstice occurred in

the Makar Rashi and thereafter. One must have common sense and leave the

celebration of the Uttarayana day alone as there is no mentuion of it in the

Vedic literature. Heaven will not fall if you do not observe the Uttarayana

day. If one is very keen on observing the Uttarayana day then he can join the

Christmas parties.

Thanks

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Sun, 4/26/09, Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com> wrote:

Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com>

[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re:Various calendars of ancient India

ancient_indian_ astrology

Cc: " AKKaul Kaul " <HinduCalendar>

Sunday, April 26, 2009, 9:51 PM

Dear Bhattacharyaji,

Yes sir, this indeed is a very good point you have mentioned. <If however

anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody

should raise any objection to that.>

This is the summary of calender reform.This dhanu sankranti for uttaryan and

mangsir purnima for magh snana is the best proposal for calaender reform.Thank

you for this acceptance.

Because S.B. Dixit thinks it would be impossible to adopt new names for

festivals and in suspport of him, I have supported to change the name of dhanu

sankkranti into makar sanakranti and mangsir punrima as poush purnima so that

our cultural names remain as such..Now my final question is as follows:

1.Do you think there is any difficulty in changing the names like this and keep

record so that we can do our date keeping of history by nirayan method as

before? This way we need not change the wordings in our dharma shaastras where

uttarayan is mentioned as makar sankranti.

2.For those who want to do prediction by the nirayan method as before, what if

we accept the rashis with the new names for those who want to do so and also let

the old rahsi continue for those who want to continue with the old rashis? This

freedom given to the phalilt jyotishis should in my view solve the probelm of

canlendar reform.

Thanking you ,I remain,

sincerey yours,

Hari Malla

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @>