Guest guest Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Dear Sunil ji, I sincerely appreciate your contribution and as a colleague on this group would like to advice you that you would get much better response if you ask non-rhetorical questions politely without sarcasm. Please do give respect to every member on this group, irrespective of whether you to their views or not. warm regards, raj rao Moderator , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote: > > Vinayji, > > 1) > Just give one reference from ancient scriptures to prove about your Saurapaksha and drikpaksha. I trust the scriptures more than your imaginary outpourings. > > 2) > Do you want me to send the copies of my mails and your mails to the group to show who was lying on the Saptasindhu issue? > > -SKB > > > --- On Sat, 4/4/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > Saturday, April 4, 2009, 7:14 PM > > > > > > Sunilji, > > You do not know how difficult it is for me to control my words while I answer your mails. Now I must conclude your sole mission is to disrupt astrological discussions. There are good articles on Sarasvati in internet where you can contribute ; this topic has no relation to astrology. You are lying that you found the verse yourself , I sent the verse to you. Moreover, I never misinterpreted the verse, I gave the literal translation while you believe your fancuful meanings to be the real translation. there is no mention of stormy conditions in that verse. literal translation and interpretation are different things. The point I made was that Saptasindhu was in the heartland of Aryavarta as mentioned by Vyaasaji, but you buried that point under a false argument over your stormy conditions merely to poke fun at my supposedly wrong interpretation. > > > > Your next point about Hartley and Burgess is a mere proof of your ignorance of Suryasiddhanta and of your blind faith on western commentators, as well as of your habit of producing false arguments with a view to prove false things. Suryasiddhantic true Sun and true Moon have great difference with Sun and Moon of physical astronomy, but Suryasiddhantic tithi has negligible difference with that of physical astronomy, because tithi is relative difference between Sun and Moon. Suryasiddhantic synodical lunar month is equal to 29.530587947 days, which is very near to modern value. Eclipses are related to synodical period, ie, to relative position of Sun and Moon. Hence Hartley found no much difference between timings of Suryasiddhantic eclipses and physical eclipses. i have used the term " no much difference " while you use therm " accurately " which is a lie. But even if eclipses have no much difference, absolute position of true Sun or true Moon have great > > differences, esp when we go into past. This difference increases at the rate of 360 degrees in 42000 years. Another source of difference is nearly 1.5 degrees of difference in mandaphal of Suryasiddhantic Moon and physical (Drikpakshiya) Moon. Third source is difference between the length of Suryasiddhantic solar year and Drikpakshiya year (sidereal ; tropical year has less difference). > > > > You can live in your imaginary world of Maayaa believing in physical and sensory things. It is not my duty to enlighten you. That is why I always tried to hold information, and simply answered your false and motivated charges on me. If Vyaasaji talks about eclipses, you conclude he must talk about Drikpakshiya and not about Sauarpakshiya eclipses and do noy feel any need to substantiate that physical reality is the ultimate reality. Gita says that persons believing merely in the physical are destined to hell. If Lord Krishna could not save such persons, how can I ? > > > > My friend, you will now receive tit-for-tat replies for your foolish mails. I will give information, proofs & c only when you come to believe that astrological concepts must be proven astrologically and not physically. although I do not deem you fit for astrologiccal discussion, I am giving you an instance of what is astrological proof. > > > > Make national horoscopes at the time of nirayana mesha samktaantis on the basis of Drikpakshiya and Saurapakshiya computations, and compare the phalita results of both horoscopes along the principles of Paraashara. You will find that Saurapakshiya predictions conform to actual events perfectly, while Drikpakshiya predictions bear no such relation to reality in an overwhelming majority of cases. I wasted decades on mutual comparison of Drikpakshiya and Saurapakshiya horoscopes in mundane and individual horoscopy, but you dismiss Saurapaksha without any astrological investigation. You have no interest in astrological investigation of astrological entities. Suryasiddhanta is an astrological treatise which has no relation to physical astronomy, which can be proven from the text itself, but it is better to undertake an unbiased comparison of Drikpakshiya and Saurapakshiya horoscopes to arrive at any conclusive finding. But you are too biased to be interested > > in any astrological investigation and are adamant on wasting my precious time. If you agree to test Suryasiddhanta " ASTROLOGICALLY " , I will retract all my statements against you and will apologize for using harsh words, but if you are intent upon disrupting astrological discussion with non-astrological BAKAWAAS, I will use harsher words for you in future, because an astrological forum should have no place for non-astrological nonsense. > > > > -VJ > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @> > > > > Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology > > Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:50:48 AM > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > Vinayji, > > > > I think you forget things. In AIA you wrote that Saraswati moved from east to west. Then I told you that at Paunta saheb one stream of Saraswati goes to meet Yamuna and it then moves eastward and that is how it is said that there is Triveni Sangam at Prayag. The other stream of Saraswati went westward to be one of the seven rivers (Saptasindhu) . When I asked you the reference as to where you found that Saraswati changed direction fron east to west you did not give and stated that you have no time. Later on you sent me a mail personally saying that you are going to write an article and even though the Mahabharata is in front of you, you will not give me the reference. Then I found the verse in the Mahabharata and sent you the verse and told you how you mistranslated it . That day when Lord Krishna was going to Hastinapur it was so stormy that the eastward moving Saptasindhu (mind that Saraswati is not sataed here) appeared to move in the reverse > > direction. I have only told you that the Vedas have mentioned more than one Saptasindhu. > > > > When I told you that Hartley could find out the date and time of the eclipses accurately from the Suryasiddhanta as edited by Burgess you just ignored that. > > > > I have no objection if you live with your imaginations as you have not given any reference so far to substantiate what you say. Vedavyasa talked about the eclipses and their effects also and I am sure that he referred to the physical phenomena and these did not occur in your imaginary locations. > > > > Regards, > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote: > > > > Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > Friday, April 3, 2009, 10:30 PM > > > > Sunil ji, > > > > I believe you are a sincere person, that is why I am answering your mails. But you are blindly following the teachings of western commentators who distorted traditional jyotisha. What you call " my imaginary " Saurpaksha is not my invention ; the concept of two Suns and two Moons was present in Vedic and anti-Vedic variants of Indian astrology from prehistoric times, and has continued to modern times. But with the progress of materialism, the case of Saurpaksha has weakened and a majority of persons do not want to get it discussed. I have no intention to persuade them, it is futile. If you do not believe in Saurpaksha, please keep away from me. Phalita Jyotisha is the only proof of Saurpaksha, because Saurpakshiya planets cannot be directly perceived, but you never wanted to " test " my assertions through practical analyses of horoscopes made along Drik and Saur methods, which is the only proper way to decide the issue. > > > > I already said that my computational ability is based upon mastery of mathematical tables like log and antilog tables, which is not a magical or tantric feat. why are you angry at me if I committed the crime of learning these tables by rote in my school days ? > > > > You are wrong in asserting : " Your imagination about the separate locations of the physical planets and the presiding deities of the planets has not been mentioned in any ancient text. " If you have not read ancient texts, it is not my fault. You called me a liar about eastward flowing Saptasindhu, and I did not try to give you the verse because I wanted you to search that verse through the hint I provided. But did not " waste " you time over my false claims. And when I provided the verse, you did not beg an apology for you uncivil remarks against me. Read your mails : have you ever used such a language for any other person in youtr life ? I used to read your messages to others in AIA and was surprided with the difference. You have singled me out for ridicule. > > > > The very concept of presiding deity of a planet is your inventiomn. It is supported neither by modern science nor by any astrological texts of repute. > > > > You say : " Regarding ayanamsha as a Saurpaksha concept also you did not give any reference to back your statement. " Instead, you should provide a reference to back your wrong belief of ayanamsha being a concept of physical astronomy. Modern physical astronomy has a concept of precession of equinoxes, which was known to ancients. But they never called it ayanamsha. What they called ayanamsha was known as trapidation or libration, which is not a phenomenon of the physical world and was therefore rejected by astronomers after Copernicus. Till then, the socalled discovery of Hipparchus was rotting on papyrus. > > > > If you refrain from false charges on me and really want proofs, I can show you. But hitherto you have only wasted my time. For the last time, I request you to test astrological concepts astrologically, or stop sending messages to me. I still believe you are a sincere person, as I gather from your messages to others. It is only me who has a special treatment. > > > > If you forget the past and stop referring to what you said or what I said, things can get alright and you may be able to test the proofs I am ready to provide. But if your intention is merely to waste my time over personal feuds so that I leave all forums, I will request you to behave like a gentleman and forget me for ever. If you think my views are my inventions which will die with me, you are mistaken. The best works on Saurpaksha have never been translated into any language but form a part of syllabus of Jyotisharya in Sanskrit unuiversities. It is neither possible nor my duty to teach these obscure ancient texts here in forums. You should enrol in those universities where these texts are taught. But if you want verifiable proofs, I am willing to provide. But I am still sorry for your disbelief in my paper being accepted at CAOS, IISc. If I am a liar, how you will ever listen to me. And without listening properly, how will ever know my > > > > views properly ? Hence, either stop all communication, or begin anew forgetting all past and talk on proofs only. Then I will be able to give you proofs. But if you continue wasting my time over useless matters, including present message, who will write down the proofs you ask me to supply ? I have many tasks at hand. I know you have a very low opinion of me. You forget that I tolerated direct abuses by Mr Chandrahari till his last message to me. I tolerated him because I believed him to be an honest intellectual. Sreenadh led me to believe so. Sreenadh requested him to discuss the matters with me amicably without abusing, but failed. Sreenadh sent me works of Mr Chandrahari, so that I could discuss his ideas. After reading these works of Mr Chandrahari, i came to learn that Mr Chandrahari was rendering a faulty interpretation of Suryasiddhanta and was propagating a false concept of ayanamsha in the name of Suryasiddhanta. Mr Chandrahari has every right > > > > to propound his views, but he has no right to falsely call his views Suryasiddhantic. Then I shot back at Mr Chandrahari, challenging him for shaastraartha. As a result, Mr Chandrahari left the field and Sreenadh started abusing and attacking me. Is it shaastraartha ? Who avoided a free and fair debate ? Who vitiated thje environment ? > > > > When I tried to avoid this unwanted controversy and started a new topic on tantric astrology, why a discussion on astrology was diverted to wine ? Did I start a discussion on the use of wine in astrology ? > > > > If you really want proofs about foolproof methods of astrology, of existence of Saurpaksha, etc, you will have to read my articles on tantric astrology. But if you remove " astrology " and discuss only " tantra " , then I have no time for you. You do not know what you are missing, because you have consistently refused to listen, by diverting the issues. In future, please read my messages twice before answering. There is no hurry. Do not answer in haste. I do not know you future, but I am going to live here for 35 years more. Forget that I am a brahmachaari, if you can check you references to wine. If you again start discussing the benefits of wine, I will have to say that it is sinful for me to listen to such talks. It is an astrological forum and there is no use of discussing wine in these forums. I am not belittling you, I am merely stating my limitations. I belonged to a rich and powerful family, and topped in science and later in English literature , but > > > > renounced worldly things for the sake of my salvation. I cannot tolerate things which are banned for a lifelong brahmachaari. If you want any discussion at all, you will have to remember my conditions. It is my last non-astrological message to you. Either talk astrology, or stop talking to me. I have no time for other things, esp personal feuds, in these forums. Presently you are in a fighting mood. Hence, please rest for a few days and when your mood calms down, start discussing astrology, if you want. I have forgiven even obscene abuses (not from you) to me in . But if think you never used foul words for me, I am forgiving you for the last time. I will not forgive any attempt to divert the discussion to non-astrological issues, even if you eulogize me. I care neither for abuses nor for praises. If you think you abused me or I abused you, please forget the past and start anew. > > > > You main problem is that you want discussions with a software developer without touching his software, due to your prejudices about Suryasiddhanta. Ignorance can be cured (you are not ignorant), but there is no cure for prejudice (you are really prejudiced, I am not abusing you, I really believe so). Forget subjective matters, and come to astrology objectively, and test objective proofs which I tried in vain to show under the title tantric astrology. Can I discuss that topic again, here ? But remember, I will not discuss ALL tantric astrology, because it is a vast ocean and I have access only to a part of it. i am not omniscient. I will discuss only those things which I know well and can substantiate. > > > > Good Wishes, > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= ==== ============ ========= ========= ========= > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @> > > > > > > > > Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology > > > > Saturday, April 4, 2009 1:53:11 AM > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > Vinayji, > > > > 1) > > > > You said > > > > Quote > > > > How physical astronomy can prove that a Shani in Vishakha can " torment " Rohini ? > > > > Unquote > > > > I thought that you know that the Jyotish shastra includes both astrology and physical astronomy and they are clubbed together as both are inter-related. Any astrologer worth his salt knows that Shani in Visakha can aspect Rohini. Vedavyasa did mention physical phenomena when he said the Sun was in Visakha and when he said about the eclipses within 13 days etc. anot your imaginary Saurpaksha. > > > > 2) > > > > You said that to prove your mathematical ability you will have to travel round the world like Shakuntala Devi does. Far from it. Shakuntala Devi does not tour the world to prove her ability. She gets invitation because of her mathemetical and other abilities. I said that it will be better for you to prove it if you want others to believe in what you say. > > > > 3) > > > > I was the first to tell you in the AIA forum that according to Manu a married person can also become Brahmachari provided he restricts his physical intimaccies. That was in reply to your statement that you have insight into Suryasiddhanta only because you are meeting the requirements such as remaining unmarried and being a life-long Brahmachari and that you take one meal a day and follow all the required rules and that you do not sleep in the night etc. and you wanted all to believe in these claims of yours. > > > > 4) > > > > Your imagination about the separate locations of the physical planets and the presiding deities of the planets has not been mentioned in any ancient text. Without any text reference from the shastras how do you want us to aacept it just because you think so or your guru has told you so? The presiding deity of a planet can move like a yogi can move through his astral body but like the yogi cannot really abandon his body until he leaves the body for good.so also the planet has a physical identity. One cannot separate the physical identity from the planet. > > > > 5) > > > > Regarding ayanamsha as a Saurpaksha concept also you did not give any reference to back your statement. > > > > 6) > > > > You do not know the meaning of the phrase " good riddance " . When you said that you do not want to have anything with me then I said " good riddance " > > > > 7) > > > > You are miscontruing whatever one says if that is not to your liking. you think that you can go on claiming anything and nobody should question you. You say that to know whether some of your claims are right or wrong one will have to go and meet the professors, who are known to you. You does not believe in independent proofs. When these professors depart from this world the proofs will go with them. You are under wrong impression. Asking for proof is not character assassination. > > > > I wrote to you the last mail only to clarify as you dragged my name in your mail to Bhaskarji and you made false allegations against me that I have used foul words against you and that I raised the topic of wine in Tantra etc. Do you think that the character assassination that you are doing and that your maligning of Tantra etc. should have gone unopposed? > > > > -SKB > > > > --- On Fri, 4/3/09, vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote: > > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ > > > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > Friday, April 3, 2009, 1:26 AM > > > > TO ALL : > > > > Mr Sunil Bhattacharya is in a fighting mood, and is trying to forge an alliance with Mr Bhaskar against me (that is why he posted here, guessing I was fighting with Mr Bhaskar). The fact is I have no time for useless bullfights. I do not want to waste my and others' time by starting a useless feud in forums. I believe his attitude cannot be changed, but I hope following passages recently sent by me to another user may be useful in making some important points clear : > > > > <<<< " There are two branches of Vedic Astrology. One is Saurpaksha, other is Drikpaksha. These terms are unfamiliar to internet users, because traditional texts hitherto untranslated into any other language dealt with these concepts, and Ketaki System is a sole exception in modern age which popularized these terms. Drikpaksha means the material or physical world perceived by means of sense organs. In Kantian terminology, it is phenomenal world. Modern astronomy deals with this world. The other trend, Saurpaksha, dealt with the other higher world of deities who cannot be seen directly by our sense organs. In Kantian words, it is noumenal world. Ancient Vedic astrology was totally based upon this noumenal world and had no connection with phenomenal world. Perhaps it was due to God's desire that materialists should be kept away from this higher world that both worlds use similar names for planets. But Saurpakshiya planets have nothing in common with > > > > Drikpakshiya planets, excepting names. The latter is a physical dead thing which we see in the sky. The former is a god whose position is different and cannot be seen directly. Distance of Drikpakshiya Sun is 149.6 million Kms from us, while Saurpakshiya Sun is only 5.5 million Kms from us : a difference of over 27 times ! Drikpakshiya world rotates once every 42000 years with respect to the fixed Saurpakshiya world. In early 2000 AD, both worlds coincided, as far as mean positions of planets are concerned... > > > > Ayanamsha is purely a Saurpakshiya concept. Drikpakshiya world of modern astronomy does not show such a phenomenon. Modern astronomy has no equivalent for this term, and even English speakers use the Sanskrit word " ayanamsha " . 19th century authors like Colebrooke started imposing modern astronomy upon ancient Vedic concepts, which resulted into present day misconceptions about ayanamsha. Lahiri followed this modern method and identified the star Spica with Vedic (Saurpakshiya) star Chitra because according to this logic ayanamsha was found to be zero in 285 AD (you say 280 AD approximately) . It was therefore concluded that both sidereal and tropical zodiacs separated around 285 AD. But the inherent weakness in this method is that Chitra is not the starting point of any zodiac, that point is beginning of Aries (FPA). There is no visible star at sidereal or tropical FPA. This modern method is based upon a fallacious assumption that Drikpakshiya Tropical > > > > means Saurpakshiya Saayana. > > > > The concept of precession was known in ancient India with a high degree of precision ( cf. http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Ayanamsha+ vs+Precession ), but was never used in astrology. It had no connection with ayanamsha. The latter was related to Trepidation or libration of the equinoxes. In spite of knowledge of precession in the time of Hipparchus, Trepidation was used by almost all astrologers in Greece, Egypt, Arabia, India, etc, down to the time of Copernicus. It was only afrer renaissance that Trepidation was rejected by physical scientists and followers of material science imposed the concept of precession upon ayanamsha. Trepidation is a Saurpakshiya concept and is not found to exist in the Drikpakshiya (material world). Similarly, precession is a non-Saurpakshiya concept of physical world. > > > > We cannot observe the Saurpakshiya world directly. Then, what is the proof of its existence ? Material astronomy can neither prove nor disprove the existence or non-existence of non-material entities. Predictive astrology is the only proof. " >>>> > > > > --- > > > > Mr Sunil Bhattacharya' s first charge on me is : >>>> " You say that the location of the physical planets are different from the actual locations of the grahas but Vedavyasa does not agree with you. Will you say that Vedavyasa did not have spiritual knowledge which you claim to possess? Vedavyasa said that at the time of the Mahabharata war the Saturn (physical planet) was in Visakha nakshatra (physical location) and that it was tormenting Rohini. " <<<< << > > > > Where did Vyaasa Jee say he was implying the " physical planet " ? Vyaasa jee has mentioned countless of times that grahas are deities, and everyone knows deities can be perceived only when they want to make themselves visible. How physical astronomy can prove that a Shani in Vishakha can " torment " Rohini ? > > > > His second charge is that he wanted me to demonstrate my computational ability. I had clearly said that I am not Ramanujam (or Shakuntala Devi), and my computational abilities are due to mastery of a lot of mathematical tables since early boyhood, like logarithmic and antilog tables. I had mentioned the name and departments of a university where my computational ability was checked. Instead of asking those professors, Mr Sunil Bhattacharya says " you cannot prove it and want a face-saving exit from the topic. " Why should I start touring the globe like Shakuntala Devi, stopping my research works ? Mr Sunil Bhattacharya is certainly not sincere and is after character assassination. If he really doubts me, he can come to my town ( I will bear his expenses in my town, but not travelling expenses) and test me. I believe he will decline this offer and find new excuses to malign me. > > > > His next point is >>>> " your claim that one has to be a lifeong Brahmachari to get spiritual knowledge is all bullshit. In the ancient times all the sages like Vasishtha were married. The ancient Kumaras and only a few others were balabrahmachari. " <<<< > > > > He does not know the difference between a Brahmachaari and a Baala-brahmachaari, although he uses both terms. Ancient sages were married and were Brahmachaaris at the same time. But married Brahmachaaris are not Baala-Brahmachaaris . Mr Sunil Bhattacharya quotes Mahabharata every now and then , but only in a distorted manner in order to prove his wrong points. In Mahabharata, when Ashwatthaamaa said he does not know how to retract a Brahmaastra, Lord Krishna said Ashwatthaamaa could not do so because he was not a Brahmachaari, while Arjuna could retract it because Arjuna was a Brahmachaari. Ashwatthaamaa was a celibate brahmin of a high lineage, and there is no episode which can prove his fall from Brahmachaarya, excepting a brief reference to presence of dancers in his tent at Kuruksetra during war. Arjuna was known to have more than one wife and more than one offspring, but rejected Urvashi's offer because in Urvashi's offer there Kaama was merely a > > > > means of carnal pleasure which Arjuna had to reject, while Kaama according to Dharma, ie intended for saving the lineage, is Lord Himself as told in Gita. Arjuna was Gudaakesha, one who has attained Yoganidra by conquering normal sleep. He was a real tapasvi and a real sadhu. Hence he was a Brahmachaari. If Lord Krishna and Vyaasa Jee say so, why should I accept Mr Sunils' wrong definition of brahmacharya as a mere state of remaining unmarried. A single instance of seminal ejaculation destroys brahmacharya. That is why bad company and taamasika foods and drinks are forbidden for saatvika persons. Worls Health Organization was not founded for upholding brahmacharya and is free to eulogize a few tolas of wine. But a single drop of wine is worse than cobra venom for a real brahmachaari. Many doctors prescribe wine , meat, fish, eggs, but forget that Homo Sapiens was evolved out of a non-carnivorous family and unnatural food habits are giving rise to a > > > > lot of new diseases. I did not join forums to propagate brahmacharya, and Sunil ji is free to follow his ideas, but he should not distort ancient terms to suit his personal habits. > > > > His next point is that I was falsely complaining of being abused by him. He never used obscene words for me or for anyone. But as far as I know, I am the only person who became a target of his false and often abusive (not obscene) remarks. Even his present mail contains words like " dirty tactics " , " you cannot prove it and want a face-saving exit from the topic " , " bullshit " , 'unprovable tall claims " , " left ignominiously " which cannot be said to be conducive for a healthy discussion. His most provocative and abusive words are his deliberately false statements : (1)that Chandrahariji did use strong words in the beginning only (actually, Chandrahariji stopped correspondence when he leant that my works were recognized by some leading scientific institutions, and then Mr Sreenadh and Mr Sunil Bhattacharya were hired by Chandrahariji to spread rumours that I never delivered anything at Indian Institute of Science ( cf. http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. > > > > com/page/ NASA%27s_ Report%3B_ %26_my_Paper_ accepted_ by_CAOS%2C_ IISc ). Mr Sunil Bhattacharya even poked fun at my scientific paper which was accepted by CAOS, IISc. I asked these fellows to contact CAOS, IISc whether I was a liar or not, but they had an agenda to malign me. He falsely says " in the AIA group Chandrahariji did use strong words in the beginning only because of your unproven and unprovable tall claims. " These " strong words " were fit for a libel suit , and Chandrahariji used such words even in his last mails concerning me, not only in his initial mail. I am pained to note that in spite of my tolerance of Chandrahariji' s abuses, he and a handful of his followers never thought that I am a tolerant person, and intesified their offensive against me, denying any chance of free and fair discussion. When I recognized that Chandrahariji is a dishonest person and wants to literally crush me just because I know the practical methods of > > > > Suryasiddhantic computations which he wrongly interprets and falsely projects himself as an expert of Suryasiddhanta, I started refuting him, and challenged him for an intellectual debate, after which he left the field and his followers started abusing me, some of them even sent me obscene messages. > > > > Mr Sunil Bhattacharya falsely says : " In your every mail you used bring up what Chandrahariji wrote in the beginning to you. " Chandrahariji abused me till his last mail, and in every reply I requested him to calm down and discuss, but in vain. Mr Sreenadh and Mr Bhaskar once tried to request Chandrahariji to discuss the matter calmly instead of abusing. But they failed. When I asked Chandrahariji for a shaastraartha, his followers were mad with anger and started abusing me. > > > > Mr Sunil Bhattacharya falsely says : " Sreenadhji, the owners and the moderators were very tolerant towards you. " Sreenadhji was really good in the beginning, but when Chandrahariji brought the issue to a point of no return, I started challenging his ideas and invited him for a shaastraartha, Chandrahariji went into hibernation and Sreenadhji launched a venomous attack upon me, in AIA, in private emails, and in Allahabad Conference where I was instrumental in allowing him a chance to speak ( there too he abused and left the spot, without hearing the answers). > > > > Mr Sunil Bhattacharya deliberately forgets these facts and is misreporting here just to create a hostile environment against me. Had he behaved like a gentleman and refrained from impolite words, why I should have denied him the access to my Hindi book, whose English summary still can be read at three websites, one is Australian, another is Wikipedia (history tab), and the third is mine . I removed my book from the jyotirvidya site because the revised version could not be uploaded there due to size and had to be uploaded on another site. > > > > A lot of people in the world today are under a hallucination that material world is everything and ancient sages had no knowledge which modern science has not discovered. Their refusal to discuss and test springs from this materialist belief. Among these materialists, only those may be able to fairly judge the truth about astrology who keep away from wine, women and selling of astrology. I have not set these rules, these are ancient guidelines which moderners want to deny. > > > > I was glad when Mr Sunil Bhattacharya said that he wants to get rid of me. Why he has again decidedd to waste my and others' time must have some cause. That cause is a desire to crush the traditional astrology as based on Suryasiddhanta. Although all internet users are users of softwares based on physical astronomy, the wish to kill Suryasiddhantic astrology is a wishful thinking, majority of Indians stil use and will continue to use panchangas and kundalis based on crude or refined tables originally derived from Suryasiddhanta. The refusal to test the astrological validity of Suryasiddhanta is wrongly projected as " scientific " spirit by these enthusiasts. Scientific method does not reject a thing before testing it. > > > > I am abstaining from using bad words about Mr Sunil Bhattacharya. I left AIA because my time was wasted over refutals of false charges and abuses by these persons, who are now after me in other forums. If I am a bad guy, why he does not forget me ? Has he no noble task at hand ? I have no cure for prejudice. Some people suppose anyone finding something useful in ancient texts must be an obscurantist and must be silenced by force, or by means of abuses. > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ==== ============ ==== > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Vinayji, > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > You say that the location of the physical planets are different from the actual locations of the grahas but Vedavyasa does not agree with you. Will you say that Vedavyasa did not have spiritual knowledge which you claim to possess? Vedavyasa said that at the time of the Mahabharata war the Saturn (physical planet) was in Visakha nakshatra (physical location) and that it was tormenting Rohini. > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > You said that Suniljee wants you to demonstrate your computing power like a madaari. Far from it I wanted to you to demonstarte you computing abilities like Shakuntal devi did and nobody has any doubt on her computing ability. Do you want to say Shakuntala Devi is a madaari(ni)? Why do you interpret things in the wrong way more usually than otherwuse? Or is it that you cannot prove it and want a face-saving exit from the topic > > > > > > > > > > 3) As regards Tantra you misinformed the AIA group by saying that Tantra is un-Vedic and I simply corrected it and told you that the Kularnava tantra traces its origin to Veda. Then you said that in Tantra one has to get drunk heavily. I only corrected it by saying that Tantra recommends that one should take the substitutes. Then there is also the alternative procedure of Alipaan, which a symbolical drinking of a drop. However in case of one, who is used to drinking wines, only two-Tolas (ie. one ounce of wine, which is less than the safe limit of wine permitted by the World Health Organisation) was allowed. Now please do not pose the question as to whether the Tantric masters consulted WHO before fixing the two Tolas. You have already made enough of cheap fun of the Two Tolas due to your ignorance of the Tantric norms. > > > > > > > > > > 4) Vinayji please speak out only what is true. Which foul word did I use? Please have the guts to tell the forum. Please leave your dirty tactics of false accusations. Also your claim that one has to be a lifeong Brahmachari to get spiritual knowledge is all bullshit. In the ancient times all the sages like Vasishtha were married. The ancient Kumaras and only a few others were balabrahmachari. From the biographical details that we have of Adi Sankaracharya he told his mother that his longevity (ayu) was less and that he would die unless he became a sanyashi. I do not think Adi Sankaracharya wanted to fool his mother. Moreove of the sankara mathas the Sankaracharyas of the Govardhana Math were grihashthis in their purvashrama. > > > > > > > > > > 5) You never told that your book on Suryasiddhanta was on the Internet website but you pretended to get annoyed with me and you said that you are going to delete that from your website so that I don't get to see it. Please do not play such dirty tricks. If you want to delete it you can very well do it as it is your prerogative. Now I am convinced that a book coming from a person of such attitude may not be worth reading. > > > > > > > > > > 6) > > > > > I agree that in the AIA group Chandrahariji did use strong words in the beginning only because of your unproven and unprovable tall claims. I had, at one time, a lot of correspondence with Chandrahariji and we respected each other even though we did not agree in several things. All other people including Sreenadhji in the AIA group were very polite towards you. They never used a single strong word against you. In fact I also supported you in the beginning. But your much- vaunted scholarship remained only in your assertions and claims. In your every mail you used bring up what Chandrahariji wrote in the beginning to you and you threatened that you will quit that group and to keep your word you had to quit. Sreenadhji, the owners and the moderators were very tolerant towards you and I do not think that you were ousted from the group but yourself made your position very precarious there and you left ignominiously. > > > > > > > > > > -SKB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> > > > > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 9:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar Jee, > > > > > > > > > > You will never know what secrets I possess due to your foul language. > > > > > > > > > > You say : " I could see that you were not being able to manage strong solid arguments or proofs of what you claimed in front of Marg, which weakness she understood and played with you, till you left back doors. " > > > > > > > > > > Margie is adamant on discussing ONLY the physical proofs of astronomical observation in ancient India, brcause she knows that ancient indian astrology was not based on physical observation but on revelations. She has an agenda, and does not want to discuss what India really can offer. She has a negative attitude which no one can change. She and you do not know what I wanted to offer, because I never explained what I have. My unwillingness to explain is taken by you to be my inability. You say : " Unfortunately you have been able to prove nothing of your tall claims on a single forum. " AIA was the only forum where I had agreed to provode proofs and discuss in detail, but a handful of cronies hired by Sreenadh never stopped abusing me and never allowed any free and fair discussion. In no other forum I started such a discussion. I never wanted to prove anything to you, because you were never interested in anything about my methods and often wanted to know > > > > > everything in a paragraph which was impossible. You are a professional astrologer and I am a software developer plus a researcher. We are poles apart. I avoid clients. I am not you competitor because I do not earn money from astrology. I never wanted to become a me,ber of any forum. It was Sreenadh who requested me to join, and later singled me out for abusive bahaviour without any provocation. Later, some other forums invited me and asked me to join their and other forums. Sohams is the only forum which had not invited me. But I joined Sohams because matters pertaining to me were raised there by others. > > > > > > > > > > I know forums are not a right place for me, because all these forums are populated by users of softwares made along modern astronomy which I have found to be far inferior ASTROLOGICALLY in comparison to Suryasiddhantic software. Initially I also used and made softwares based on modern astronomy. I have no hatred for modern scient, I am a recognized scientist myself. it is the misapplication of physical science in a metaphysical discipline like astrology which I oppose. But if someone does not want to test Suryasiddhantic software, it is not going to harm me in the least, because I do not sell any software. > > > > > > > > > > You say : " I still do not understand what secrets are you trying to give us, except that by using your software we will become very good astrologers ? Otherwise we are not so ? This is really boasting and impudence... " > > > > > > > > > > I am a software developer who used principles different from those used by all other software developers. You are passing judgment on my work without testing my work. If you are not interested in testing my software, I will never ask you to test it. But , then, why are you wasting my and you time ? Forget me and my works if you find it not worth testing and reading. > > > > > > > > > > You are mistaken in saying that I am trying to give some secrets to you. I never tried. Secrets are given to worthy persons. The first criterion of worth is Curiosity (jijnaasaa). You have no jijnaasaa about my method. why should I waste my time over you ?? > > > > > > > > > > I clearly mentioned my methods with practical examples in a non- forum last year. Those who read my explanations are using my software and reporting it to be performing wonderfully. Some persons fail to install it. But only two persons have taken an oath to waste my time over futile discussions leading nowhere : you and Mr Sunil Bhattacharya. These two persons deliberately diverted my topic in AIA on Tantric Astrology to wine and women, knowing full well that a lifelong brahmachaari like me will not like to participate in such a discussion. Winw and women have no place in Tantric Astrology. Ancient tantric texts are the original sources of 84 chakras, some of whom are well known, like panch-shalaakaa and sapta-shalaakaa chakras, sapta-naadi chakra, sarvatobhadra chakra, koorma chakra, etc. A good topic was destroyed. Recently, Mr Sunil Bhattacharya wasted a lot of my time and then started using foul words. you are also adamant on wasting my and > > > > your > > > > > time. Have you no business ? If I am a bad guy, either forget me or ask the moderators to ban me. Do not send useless and uncivil posts. > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in> > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, April 2, 2009 12:02:04 AM > > > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay jee, > > > > > > > > > > Ha Ha. That was a good one. > > > > > > > > > > See now you dont understand, The other people who are against indian culture and Indian vedic astrology, would now take advantage after seeing this differences between us, which i did not want. > > > > > > > > > > Being inebriated, is not my forte unfortunately. > > > > > > > > > > I mentoned about your being crushed only because I could see that you were not being able to manage strong solid arguments or proofs of what you claimed in front of Marg, which weakness she understood and played with you, till you left back doors. > > > > > > > > > > See how you have called me ignorant, the Moderator here as ignorant, but i still feel that You have some knowledge, and I also feel that Marg has got good knowledge and the Moderator here is the wisest person whom i have ever encountered with. He will not enter the thread unless it leads to someone abusing the other one. Now do you call these statements as under the influence of liquor , or the ones made by Your goodeself ( ??). > > > > > > > > > > The mail you have just presented, I have received the likes of same, in thousands on various groups, which still does not make me Pompous, impudent or proud, because I know my shortcomings in astrology, which these people who send me praise mails do not. I always have my feet planted firmly on the ground. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately you have been able to prove nothing of your tall claims on a single forum, since last 6 months of lingering on these, and you tried to impress a smart member Marg here and once again showed the torn spots in your claims which amount to nought. > > > > > > > > > > I still do not understand what secrets are you trying to give us, except that by using your software we will become very good astrologers ? Otherwise we are not so ? This is really boasting and impudence, and not what I have mentioned which speaks of confidence in my knowledge acquired through years of study and nights spent in reading and analysing. > > > > > > > > > > I seriously think that you need some rest and time to study actually what you are trying to claim. because neither have you proved yourself to me, neither to marg, and neither to any member of the various groups you have entered and been showed the door, I am sorry to say. > > > > > > > > > > Now lets stop discussing when you have nothing in your kitty, otherwise the Moderator here will throw me even out, because of you. > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar Jee, > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your redcent mail was written under the influence of liquor, otherwise you would not have boasted thus : " Without my support you would have been crushed by now....You will certainly need my certificates because I rule the roost on the Forums. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither do I need certficates from impudent and ignorant persons like you, nor do I wish to waste my time in those forums whose moderators pass such mindless messages as posted by you recently. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your statement is false " Your books, articles web pages have nothing conclusive to mention " , because you did not read my works, as you yourself say " I just visited your site for once, and that only for 1 minute. " > > > > > > > > > > > > You say " Your software is not being downloaded by 99% of the persons who are trying to do so. " Why you think yourself to be 99% ? Recent version was successfully downloaded by 59.66 % persons who attempted. Remaining 40% had viruses or similar problems. Had the software been defective, everyone would have failed to download and use it. Read a recent email to me : > > > > > > > > > > > > " > > > > > > > > > > > > praNaam sir, > > > > > > > > > > > > sir ur software is pretty accurate! i know u know > > > > > > that already and u dont need any confirmation > > > > > > from anyone else. just thought i should let u > > > > > > know.i just felt like responding cause i felt i was being negative > > > > > > the last time(about fonts and vb > > > > > > errors). > > > > > > > > > > > > and its accurate till prana > > > > > > dashas. > > > > > > the hindi fonts are also back to normal once i > > > > > > removed the fancy skins for windows (windows blinds). > > > > > > using default windows theme now and can see itrans > > > > > > normally. > > > > > > > > > > > > it said danger from fire. the very day my kitchen > > > > > > was full of lpg with all the windows closed!! pipe broken.. > > > > > > another time > > > > > > my firend fought with a lady manager and it was > > > > > > there in the prana dasha (bphs)...... .... " > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > ============ = ============ == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, April 1, 2009 10:59:59 PM > > > > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i would prefer a " ji " rather than a " Mr. " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, Your software is not being downloaded by 99% of the persons who > > > > > > are trying to do so. So unless we download your software , You cannot > > > > > > prove that you know " something " ? > > > > > > > > > > > > You will certainly need my certificates because I rule the roost on the > > > > > > Forums, if I may dare say this with some pride of my knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am ready to receive knowledge from even a small boy but not from > > > > > > somebody who just talks and preaches but never practises. I mean who > > > > > > says that he has got a Kohinoor Diamond, but in reality has just broken > > > > > > glass pieces in his kitty. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your books, articles web pages have nothing conclusive to mention or > > > > > > culminate in, so whats the use of spending few precious hours on them ? > > > > > > You came with a Big Bang in all the Groups, but what we thought was a > > > > > > mountain, turned out to be a mole hill. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now my Dear frioend Mr.Vinay , if you dont wish to prove yourself then > > > > > > why are you making so much tall claims about the origin of indian > > > > > > astrology which you cannot prove even to a single member of this Group ? > > > > > > I had to help you every time. Without my support you would have been > > > > > > crushed by now. So what have you got ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Since last 6 months you have been playing the same tune from the broken > > > > > > guitar string, that " I have got astrological secrets " , but none have > > > > > > you been able to produce uptil now. You have not been able to prove > > > > > > whatever you have claimed uptil now. Instead you spoil our name in front > > > > > > of foreign astrologers like Marg with whom you cant discuss convincingly > > > > > > but just rattling in the air. > > > > > > > > > > > > If You are not in a mood to prove, then dont claim. > > > > > > > > > > > > If You dont have enough stuff to claim, then dont claim. > > > > > > > > > > > > We will not miss your books or whatever you have removed, because I just > > > > > > visited your site for once, and that only for 1 minute, because I could > > > > > > gauge the depth of the knowledge you profess to have. > > > > > > > > > > > > As regards to abusing you, at least I am not doing this, but have > > > > > > always helped you, which help you cannot understand, with your present > > > > > > set up of mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you have some potential, but unfortunately you have started > > > > > > selling your mangoes before they have turned ripe. > > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Bhaskar wrote : " Mr.Vinay this last part of the message is for you. > > > > > > I have yet to see > > > > > > > your proficiency either in Astrology, Astronomy, or Mathematics. You > > > > > > > have stirred the Hornests nest with no contribution. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Bhaskar was in good humour for quite some time, but now he appears > > > > > > to relapse into his former moods. I do not need his certificates. He has > > > > > > refused to read my books, articles, papers and webpages and says I made > > > > > > no contribution. Today, I removed my book on Suryasiddhanta and one > > > > > > article from my webpage due to offensive language of Sunil Bhattacharya > > > > > > Jee. Now I may remove the rest. Knowledge is not given to abusers. I > > > > > > never demanded anyone to show his/her capabilities or keep quiet. When I > > > > > > tried to elaborate (in AIA) the accurate method of Mundane Astrology of > > > > > > ancient Yaamala Tantras, those very persons prevented any discussion on > > > > > > astrology who are now asking me to prove my worth. I am in no need to > > > > > > prove myself. After a lifelong of research, I developed some free > > > > > > softwares which these persons are under an oath not to use, and are > > > > > > asking me to prove my worth. If I am worthless, ask the moderators to > > > > > > ban me. I will teach my methods only to my > > > > > > > disciples, never to those who had predicted that I will sell my free > > > > > > softwares in future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, April 1, 2009 9:43:08 PM > > > > > > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Dating of Ramayana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, I remind those who have read the Ramayana here, that > > > > > > Jyotish does have a reference in Ramayana, and not just at one place, > > > > > > but more than one . If the Ramayana is to be believed, then the bridge > > > > > > made over Lanka is to be believed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the bridge over Lanka is to be believed , then the Adams bridge > > > > > > discovered by NASA , is to be believed. And if NASA is to be believed > > > > > > then the dates given by the Worlds best authorities about the time this > > > > > > bridge was built, is also to be believed, which matches with the Ramayan > > > > > > occurrence. And all authorities are univocal in confirming that this > > > > > > bridge cannot be built naturally.Such a clear proof than what the whole > > > > > > world has seen, defies skeptics and dis belief any which way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now can anyone bring us better and pre-dated references than this to > > > > > > > disapprove India's sovereignty in being the King of astrology ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who have read the Bhagawat know the reference of Jyotish > > > > > > mentioned therein. Those who do not believe in Krishna would now have to > > > > > > take an about turn since archeological discoveries are in fact > > > > > > confirming the underwater city through their findings . > > > > > > > > > > > > > & gt% > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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