Fw: Achievements_Vedic-Hindu sage scientists

[Guest guest]

--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

Re: Re: Achievements_Vedic-Hindu sage

scientists

 

Monday, March 16, 2009, 12:11 AM

 

Dear Sreeram Srinivasji,

 

Namaskar,

 

Avatarji is  a half-baked scholar..

 

Firstly he started telling that the term " Vedic Astrology " is not correct as

according to him  the rashis are not mentioned in the Vedas. I told him that

there is indeed mention of  " Vrishabh " in Veda. I told him that the Mahabharata

too mentions " Brahma rashi " . I also told him that the Puranas includuing the

Bhagavata Purana mentions the rashis and the puranas are considered as the fifth

Veda according to Chandogya Upanishad.

 

Secondly he said that Astrology was not mentioned in the ancient Hindu sashtras

.. I exposed this untruth and told him that the Manu Smriti had specifically

mentioned that king must consult astrloger and Manu smriti is the earliest

dharma sashtra of the Hindus and this shows that from the earliest time

the Hindus knew about astrology and consulted astrologers. Moreover the epics

are are full of astrological statements.

 

Thirdly Avatrji says that the Hindus learnt astrology from the Greeks. In 19th

century BCE Lord Buddha said that he belonged to the Ikshaku Vamsha and Manu was

the ancestor of Ikshaku. As Manu had mentioned astrology this itself means that

the Indians knew astrology much before the Greeks. Further I asked him that if

the Indians  learnt astrology from the Greeks why then the western astrology

does not have the Dasha, Antardasha and the Pratyantardasha system etc. He has

no reply to that.

 

Fourthly he says that Varahamihira copied from the astrology from Sphuridhwaja.

I told him that Varahamihira was born much before Sphurudhwaja as Varahamihira

mentions Sakendra kala, which started with the start of the Saka reign in 551

BCE. This Sakendra  kala is different from the Sakanta kala mentioned by

Brahmagupta. which

started at the end of the Saka kala in 78 CE. The latter is popularly known as

saka kala. Avtarji just follows what David Pingree wrote and that suits his

purpose of denigrating Indian astrology. Do you know that the theme of Pingree's

PhD thesis was " Collecting evidence to prove that the Indians learnt evrything

from the Greeks

 

Fifthly Avtarji says that Astrology was not allowed to be practised by the

Hindus as Manu says in chapter 3 and verse 167 that the astrologers along with

the trainers of elephants, cows, horses and camels are not allowed in the

devakaryta and pretakarya. He has misinterpreted the Manu Smriti as actually

Manu mentions in Chapter 3, verses, verses 150 to 189 about the types of people,

who are not allowed to participate in these rites, as when they sit  during the

ceremony the pitris also sit near them. Broadly the ill-mannered persons and

unclean people and those who are inappropriate for that sitting are to be

avoided in these  karyas. Manu included the physicians and the temple priests

also among them. It is understandable that he physicians will have to leave the

ceremony midway if he gets a call from a patient and therefore he is not

considered  worthy of sitting in that ceremony or may be because of treating all

kinds of diseased people it is not possible for him to remain absolutely clean

at all times.. So also it is understandable that the temple priest is not

supposed to leave the temple and attend religious ceremony at other people's

place. Even if it is considered lowly to practice astrology as compared to some

of the other professions Manu had not banned astrology. Then he would have

banned the medical practice and temple worship too.

 

Sixthly Avtarji was criticising that the Hindus are doing wrong thing by

celebrating the Makar Sankranti twenty four days after the Uttarayana. At no

time in the ancient past was the Uttarayana observed as a festival, though

Uttarayana has important spiritual significance. He was also criticising the

different ayanamshas. But he did not know from when the Makar Sankranti was

observed and from when the Ayanamsha corrections started. He also did not

know that all the different Ayanamsha corrections differ only by a fraction of

a degree. I had to tell him through the recent mail that the

Winter solstice started occurring in the Makar rashi from the 19th century BCE

and that it continued till the 3rd century CE, when the Winter solstice moved to

Dhanu rashi and that we are commemorating that junction of change-over of Winter

solstice  from the Makarrashi  to the Dhanu rashi  and that after 25,800 years

from 300 CE the Uttarayana will occur again in the Makara-Dhanu junction.

 

I have disproved so many of his accusations against Indian astrology and still

he goes on repeating the same baseless things. By repeating many times he wants

to frustrate the Vedic jyotishis but he is  wrong as the Vedic jyotishis are no

fools. I guess he wants us to observe the Makar Sankranti on the Winter Solstice

day as the Christmas  is actually based on Uttarayana Sankranti. In 325 CE the

winter sostice occurred on 24th December. That was before Pope Gregory's

correction of the calendar. The next day the pagans of Rome (the

Mithra

worshippers) observed the birth-day of the Sun. To gain the support of the

christians by glorifying  Jesus Christ king Consantine ordered that the birthday

of Jesus Christ be observed on the day after the Winter solstice. Probably

Avtarji wants to convert the Hindus and make them observe the Christian custom.

 

Soirry for making it this long. I wanted to give you an idea of the arguments I

had with him for the last three years

 

Regards

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil ji,

 

a very good rejoinder, in any case we are sure of what the subject is and so

do the belivers and the prejudiced or jaundiced need to search for the cure

themselves they may not live to good advices.

 

I agree with ur observations and will post what I have gathered in CAPS and

in a diff color for those who use RTF format can distuinguish it better.

 

 

On 3/17/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya<sunil_bhattacharjya%40>>

> wrote:

> Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya<sunil_bhattacharjya%40>

> >

> Re: Re: Achievements_Vedic-Hindu sage

> scientists

> To:

<%40.\

com>

> Monday, March 16, 2009, 12:11 AM

>

> Dear Sreeram Srinivasji,

>

> Namaskar,

>

> Avatarji is a half-baked scholar..

>

> Firstly he started telling that the term " Vedic Astrology " is not correct

> as according to him the rashis are not mentioned in the Vedas. I told him

> that there is indeed mention of " Vrishabh " in Veda. I told him that the

> Mahabharata too mentions " Brahma rashi " . I also told him that the Puranas

> includuing the Bhagavata Purana mentions the rashis and the puranas are

> considered as the fifth Veda according to Chandogya Upanishad.

> *BOTH RAMAYANA, MAHABHARATHA the 2 great epics of Vedic heritage mention

> thme several times inst it IN RAMAYANA THE CORNATION MUHURTHA OF SRI RAMA,

> THEN RAVANA SETTING THE MUJURTHA FOR THE WAR with sri rama whom Sri rama

> himself sent Andadha son of vali to get it this shos a true scholar in

> ravana but for his sin of kidnapping Sita in many ways he was a accomplished

> Vedic scholar, Shiva Bhakta, a great musician, a a good astrologer etc.*

>

**

**

*In Mahabharatha the eclipses r mentioned a few times and its significence

in the exili ofpandavas and after it also the War time also the eclipse

Bhishma tells Vidura the end of Kuru dynasty is IN THE HORIZON.*

*Veda vyasa the Epic compiler observes and records the rays of Uranus,

Neptune from the color, composition, distances sys it has no impact on

Astrological assesment as its orbit is toofar and rays too slow to make a

impact on human life.*

 

 

 

 

Secondly he said that Astrology was not mentioned in the ancient Hindu

> sashtras . I exposed this untruth and told him that the Manu Smriti had

> specifically mentioned that king must consult astrloger and Manu smriti is

> the earliest dharma sashtra of the Hindus and this shows that from the

> earliest time

> the Hindus knew about astrology and consulted astrologers. Moreover the

> epics are are full of astrological statements.

>

 

 

 

> Thirdly Avatrji says that the Hindus learnt astrology from the Greeks.

> In 19th century BCE Lord Buddha said that he belonged to the Ikshaku Vamsha

> and Manu was the ancestor of Ikshaku. As Manu had mentioned astrology this

> itself means that the Indians knew astrology much before the Greeks. Further

> I asked him that if the Indians learnt astrology from the Greeks why then

> the western astrology does not have the Dasha, Antardasha and the

> Pratyantardasha system etc. He has no reply to that.

>

 

*MOST OF THE KNOWLEDGE FLOWED FROM INDIA BE IT CHESISTRY, AYURVEDHA AND

FROM THERE TO REST OF THE WORLD.*

**

*it is vedic heritage that gives hora OR hOUR AND zERO TO THE WORLD ALSO THE

panchanga concept IS UNIQUE TO us apart from the stellar lords, devathas

adhi devatas and each has a ROLE in astrological analysis apart from the

various VARGAS, BALAS, ASHTAKAVARGAS if w copied it from west why r they

NOT USING IT?*

*as copy cats do a part time job not full job.*

 

 

> Fourthly he says that Varahamihira copied from the astrology from

> Sphuridhwaja. I told him that Varahamihira was born much before Sphurudhwaja

> as Varahamihira mentions Sakendra kala, which started with the start of the

> Saka reign in 551 BCE. This Sakendra kala is different from the Sakanta

> kala mentioned by Brahmagupta. which started at the end of the Saka kala in

> 78 CE. The latter is popularly known as saka kala. Avtarji just follows what

> David Pingree wrote and that suits his purpose of denigrating Indian

> astrology. Do you know that the theme of Pingree's PhD thesis was

> " Collecting evidence to prove that the Indians learnt evrything from the

> Greeks

> IF I RECALL RIGHT THERE IS MORE THAN ONE VARAMIHRA ESP related to Jyotishya

> but the compiler of Brihat Jataka, Brihat samhita is surely early to western

> influences and he as a complier merely quoted x,y, z said so and so he DID

> NOT PROPUND ANY THEORY, RULES

>

 

 

SAY HE SAID YAVANACHARYA SAID THIS, GARGA SAID THIS... PARASARA SAID THIS

HIS IS A ENCYOPEDIA KIND OF WORK

BTW yavana are people from greece or europe as we r told.

 

 

Fifthly Avtarji says that Astrology was not allowed to be practised by

> the Hindus as Manu says in chapter 3 and verse 167 that the astrologers

> along with the trainers of elephants, cows, horses and camels are not

> allowed in the devakaryta and pretakarya. He has misinterpreted the Manu

> Smriti as actually Manu mentions in Chapter 3, verses, verses 150 to 189

> about the types of people, who are not allowed to participate in these

> rites, as when they sit during the ceremony the pitris also sit near them.

> Broadly the ill-mannered persons and unclean people and those who are

> inappropriate for that sitting are to be

> avoided in these karyas. Manu included the physicians and the temple

> priests also among them. It is understandable that he physicians will have

> to leave the ceremony midway if he gets a call from a patient and therefore

> he is not considered worthy of sitting in that ceremony or may be because

> of treating all kinds of diseased people it is not possible for him to

> remain absolutely clean at all times.. So also it is understandable that the

> temple priest is not supposed to leave the temple and attend religious

> ceremony at other people's place. Even if it is considered lowly to practice

> astrology as compared to some of the other professions Manu had not banned

> astrology. Then he would have banned the medical practice and temple worship

> too.

>

 

*HERE UR OBSERVATIONS R THE RIGHT ONES*

**

*THAT A PRIEST OR VAIDYA [DOC] are not allowed to or best avoid these roles

as it needs undivided attention and if people have to work under stress of a

patients health status behind his next client or the priest who represents a

bridge between the devout and divine must not get swayed by these jobs of

reading horoscopes and most people knew some elements of astrology in the

house holds but always SOUGHT A QUALIFIED DAIVAGNYA as there r some rules

for astrologers as Manu said.*

**

*Prashna Tantra has laid it out in a simplified manner too.*

 

 

 

Sixthly Avtarji was criticising that the Hindus are doing wrong thing by

> celebrating the Makar Sankranti twenty four days after the Uttarayana. At no

> time in the ancient past was the Uttarayana observed as a festival, though

> Uttarayana has important spiritual significance. He was also criticising the

> different ayanamshas. But he did not know from when the Makar Sankranti was

> observed and from when the Ayanamsha corrections started. He also did not

> know that all the different Ayanamsha corrections differ only by a fraction

> of a degree. I had to tell him through the recent mail that the

> Winter solstice started occurring in the Makar rashi from the 19th century

> BCE and that it continued till the 3rd century CE, when the Winter solstice

> moved to Dhanu rashi and that we are commemorating that junction of

> change-over of Winter solstice from the Makarrashi to the Dhanu rashi and

> that after 25,800 years from 300 CE the Uttarayana will occur again in the

> Makara-Dhanu junction.

>

 

*THE FACT THA MAKARA SANKRANTI has moved from Makara to Dhanur a backward

movement shows the precession of the equinox is shifting backwards the only

dispute is the speed of it which is the Aynamsa variants*

*but west doesnt acknowledge this and recent observation a few yrs ago

rather that those who identified themselves as Lions are actually CRABS

[western sun sign borns is menant] which discussed the relative backwards

movement of signs from the time recorded even by the west is there in

research shown on BBC*

**

 

 

> I have disproved so many of his accusations against Indian astrology and

> still he goes on repeating the same baseless things. By repeating many times

> he wants to frustrate the Vedic jyotishis but he is wrong as the Vedic

> jyotishis are no fools. I guess he wants us to observe the Makar Sankranti

> on the Winter Solstice day as the Christmas is actually based on Uttarayana

> Sankranti. In 325 CE the winter sostice occurred on 24th December. That was

> before Pope Gregory's correction of the calendar. The next day the pagans of

> Rome (the Mithra worshippers) observed the birth-day of the Sun. To gain the

> support of the christians by glorifying Jesus Christ king Consantine

> ordered that the birthday of Jesus Christ be observed on the day after the

> Winter solstice. Probably Avtarji wants to convert the Hindus and make them

> observe the Christian custom.

>

> Soirry for making it this long. I wanted to give you an idea of the

> arguments I had with him for the last three years

>

 

HERE I MUST AD Pope Jhon Paul the 2nd HAS OPENLY ASKED FOR SPREADING AND

CONVERTING AFRICA, ASIA THE people in dark ages according to him by using

ethnic traditions so they preach now in tribal and villageareas by calling

Bible as VEDA they wear saffron robes, apply tilak even offer Agarbathi

camphor to image of christ, we have suprabhata or morning wake up prayers to

the lords esp in south for deities like Venketeswara, shiva, Hanuman,

raghavendra, Ayappa, Shiridi sai Baba NOW TO CHRIST ALSO

 

earlier to Pope Jhon Paul the 2nd the same suprabhatas were twisted, torn

apart in vulgut derivations when u split sanskrit words deliberately and

illiterate people were told is this how u pray to god etc.

 

so the trend is now different copy all vedic traditions and give it a

cgrustuab tag clandestinely

 

if u trvel insouth india any state u will see this happening more so

villages. the paid conversions r so high is mind bogling at the speed

ithappens people r free to change faith by awareness, choice of what they

feel is good but this is distortion and nisleading them in garb of Vedic

traditions but completely christanity masked in to it. they are taught to

hate other HINDU DEITIES AND PRASAD OF IT.

 

just free a bi t due to a personal tragedy at home so finding time to read a

few posts.

but will coment on select ones urs was v good so stopped by and did my bit

to ur effort.

 

a good post sunil ji

 

 

 

Regards

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

>

>

>

>

>

>