Books and Karakas/The Gujurat Astrologer

November 14, 2008

Om Datta Guru

Dear Vijayadas,

I happen to be online. Thanks for your kind mail but what is the use of

me meeting these learned people many of them don't teach their secrets.

See this chart of an Ex-SJC Mumbai member

Natal Chart

June 3, 1979

Time: 12:53:00

Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 73 E 05' 00 " , 19 N 10' 00 "

Kalyan, India (Mumbai)

When Ashok Upadahyaa one of the most brilliant astrologers i have ever

met saw this chart he said to me while the chart holder Vinay P was on

other line, ask him if he (Vinay) sleeps on a bed that has 3 mattresses

, Vinay said yes. Then he predicted that exactly one week ago Vinay

would have bought 3 white handkerchiefs, Vinay said no, after 2 mins

Vinay said he bought 3 silk clothes small that he presented to

Mahalakshmi Maas at the famous Kolhapur Temple and those 3 silk small

clothes were white in color. Last year June July this consultation was

done when for 1.5 years Vinay could not set up a business inspite of

going to all internet parampara astrologers. Ashok bhai told him to make

7 boats out of paper (small paper boats) and flow it in water at a

particular time for 9 days each. Vinay did it and today he is revenue is

anyways, he is doing too well.

Though there is no use of this prediction (handkerchief etc) but i know

why Ashok Bhai made that prediction he surely must be checking something

for verification, but when i ask the Don Astrologer as he is called as

to how he predicted he gives me logic which after 1 minute nobody in the

world will understand so then u get what he is trying to do - not teach.

But then whatever he teaches for eg his grasp on Laghu Parasari is

'Stunning' and then u feel ohh what are we doing in astrology, what have

all these astrologers in the past done, no doubt the Legendary

Suryanarayain Vyas said Laghu Parasari is the Gita of Astrology. It is

only when i see how Ashok Bhai has decoded Laghu Parasari i realise his

utmost stunning mastery over it. How he uses only these 44 verses for

all his predictions is so breath taking & we run after 100 divisionals,

300 lagnas & 800 dasas and this man uses only 44 verses, when i

challenge him on a prediction that he strayed away from Laghu Parasari

he gets upset with me and then blurts out the logic of it and co-relates

it to Laghu Parasari shloka. But then Ashoks Guru was the Great Blind

Astrologer Shri Shri Swami of yesteryears hunted by film stars Ashok

Kumar Nutan etc

I must get out of the list now it only consumes a lot of time & nothing

comes out of it, this is the problem with most forums.

best wishes

Sunil

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Sunil

>

> Thank you very much for your valuable feed back and detailed mail.

> It was a learning experience and a chance to correct our

> mistakes.Inderjit ji is very experienced.You are fortunate to meet

> many learned astrologers.

>

> I will write more later.

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep

>

> In , " suniljohn_2002 "

> suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> >

> > Om Datta Guru

> > Dear Vijayadas,

> > I was almost out of this thread butthe word handicap & 3H that u

> used

> > brought me back.

> >

> > 1. > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> > experiences

> > > in life leading to vairagya.

> >

> > SJ: Bang On, i have not seen such a person living modern life but

> least

> > bothered about possessions, he is so so dispassionate about things,

> he

> > let go of his whole collection of books and i can go on and on, if

> > something does not happen he just moves out and i have observed him

> so

> > so acutely since 3 yrs, u were bang on about this. I have not met a

> > Jyotishi like him who when predicts removes the feet under you and

> when

> > u give feedback on the prediction a year later going correct he is

> > genuinely least bothered about it nor does he remember it. This is

> the

> > vairagya thing apart from the spiritual part which i wont mention

> here

> > to bore people.

> >

> > 2. I do not know if this person has any kind

> > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences)

> >

> > SJ: No physical handicap by Gods Grace and he is 63-64 now, widely

> > travelled, he has not written a book (i mention this due to 3H u

> > mentioned and deb Sun there with A6 ), but he had made many writers,

> > cajoled them from Santhanam to the internet parampara writers.

> Though i

> > have begged him to write his experiences which would benefit the

> astro

> > community but he refuses to write. Re his 3H having deb Sun, his

> > communication skills are very very Sharp and Rude to a major

> extent, he

> > is well respected in the olden astros of the Delhi circles, when i

> off

> > hand once mentioned to K S Charak that i talk with him, Charak was

> > astonished and then when i said its our morning ritual to talk 1 hr

> > daily since last 3 yrs he could not believe. the reason is when

> this man

> > walks into any astro circles people get afraid of him as he is too

> > honest and astrologers esp the bigwigs dont like an honest student

> of

> > this shastra. I do not know which is the house of being too

> critical but

> > he is too patient and observant, he will observe an astrologers

> > prediction for 20 yrs and then make judgement on him, he sticks to

> this

> > 20 yrs for eg predictions made on the basis of Vishnu Dasa for 10

> years

> > on 20 people in Delhi, all failed predictions and then finally he

> will

> > choose to believe or not believe, it is this experience that i gain

> from

> > him when he says well if u want to follow spend your time on Vishnu

> Dasa

> > but so far it has not worked on 20 people on predictions made by the

> > creator of that dasa only, lets observe for 10 more years. His

> > communication skills though would appear wanting but he is very

> > affectionate in it too and revered due to his honesty, i remember

> the

> > olden days C S Patel would prepare one week in advance for the

> visit of

> > this gentleman. Patel would want everything perfect for his visit,

> if he

> > gave a verse to Patel to translate Patel would take 1 week to do so

> and

> > i had to sit and type every day, get print out then Patel would

> change

> > the english etc and i would tell Patel saheb, he has asked only for

> the

> > meaning of the word Sambhanda, it is so simple, Patel would tell me

> Beta

> > (son) if he is giving me a shloka to decipher it means indias best

> > sanskrit scholars have failed on it and if he gives me a chart to

> look

> > into then it means all astrologers in delhi have failed on it. This

> man

> > only carries failed charts in his pocket and from that he learns

> > astrology.

> >

> > 3. On rest of the points u made, no major loss and he is well to do,

> > very well to do and well connected, often dines with the Prime

> Ministers

> > and Foreign Affairs ministers of other countries.

> >

> > 4. However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and relating

> > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The person

> possess

> > > knowledge. Thus inspite of financial losses and changes, this

> > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> > SJ: Yes very much into probing if one would call it research, he

> would

> > spend 6 months on only finding out the meaning of the word karaka, i

> > thought it was a joke as to why heis doing so after 40-50 yrs of

> > astrology but when i hear him i realise none of us know astrology,

> once

> > i took up discussion of kalachakra dasa with him he immediately put

> me

> > to place that unless i know KCD well i should not speak as he has

> for 10

> > yrs only studied kalachakra dasa and uses it. What impresses me

> does not

> > impress him as he is too senior, recently a book by Internet

> Parampara

> > came out he went and bought it, read it and next day he threw it

> so i

> > asked him to give me as i was too impressed with the theories in

> it,

> > the reason i quote this is that Sun is debilitated in this chart and

> > makes one too too sharp and analytical i guess after meeting more

> than

> > 3000 of the best jyotishis in this country he knows what is

> theoritical

> > Crap that Gurus present in books to influence gullible students &

> > foreigners vs real predictive astrology. As they say the people who

> can

> > predict will rarely get time to write a book as they would always be

> > flocked by people. E.g 2006 i showed him a chart of a internet

> guru, in

> > 2 secs this man said the internet gurus Guru does not know

> astrology i

> > said why, he said only a fool will teach him astrology, this man

> will

> > one day deceive and since 2007 i have been observing this coming

> true.

> >

> > I think this Sun in 3H is making him more practical and in his

> > travellings he has met giants of astrology and thats the reason he

> does

> > not get impressed with Internet Astrologers Craps Theory Assocation

> as

> > he has met too many giants whom we can only dream of meeting.

> >

> > Though i have gone more into answering ur post but i felt that

> maybe i

> > should share to the forum members a path of honesty they can

> choose ,

> > thats the greatest thing i learnt from this man in 3 yrs with

> spending

> > more than 1000 hrs minimum with him and let me tell you Vijayadas i

> have

> > never met a student of astrology as honest as him towards this

> science,

> > when i look at him and compare us of the global internet flock i

> feel we

> > are just doing madiraka tamasha (jokers play).

> >

> > I have taken up a lot of everyones time i am off lists now

> >

> > best wishes

> > Sunil

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Sunil and Inderjit ji

> > >

> > > Thanks for the quiz and explanations. I had partially attempted 2

> > > charts on the 6th of Jan and some how could not complete and

> moreover

> > > did not feel like sending those. I had saved them to cross check

> with

> > > results. It is incomplete and i didnt do any analysis today. i am

> > > posting them as such -

> > > -------------------------

> > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > >

> > > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> experiences

> > > in life leading to vairagya.I do not know if this person has any

> kind

> > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences).His 10th lord is

> > > debilitated ,but with his exaltation lord who is also the lord of

> 8th

> > > (apart from 5th).Thus inspite of financial losses and changes,

> this

> > > person will have great interest in research of some kind. Neecha

> > > Shukra can also give interest in antiques and things which are

> > > old.His 4th lord is debilitated and with saturn showing losses and

> > > difficulties related to 4th house, properties,settlement away from

> > > home.However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and

> relating

> > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The person

> possess

> > > knowledge.

> > >

> > > His karakamsha(rashi) has saturn and mars and 5th from there has

> > > mercury.Whether he is an owner

> > > -----------------------------

> > >

> > > 2nd person is also very intelligent and will have many possessions

> > > including books on various subjects.He can also be a writer as 3rd

> > > lord from karakamsha/moon and dispositor lagna is exalted fr

> > >

> > > --------------------------------

> > >

> > > Please confirm regarding handicap etc.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> >

November 15, 2008

Dear Shri Sunil

Thank you for sharing your experiences.I can also understand your

frustrations.As you know Astrology is not about some magic formulas.

There are different stages of learning and proportional

degrees/levels of knowledge. Predictive abilities are important as

you have rightly pointed out. Knowledge is never ending, thus you may

bear with experienced astrologers who were unable to find all the

answers which you were looking for.

The astrologers you have mentioned may be really gifted due to their

sound command over FUNDAMENTAL principles.

These astrologers would have also begun by developing and

understanding basics and observing consistent and repetitive patterns

which were fine tuned later on.

I agree with you that, it is not the number of tools or sophisticated

techniques that matters. But command over fundamentals and usage of a

basic tool. Once you have this command you can use different tools.

But in reality what is happening today is people wants to paint and

do the finishing touches even before the sculpture is ready!!.

It was really great to note the three mattresses prediction. I feel

there will definitely be some fundamentals behind these. I do not

know. Broad guess can be in following lines -

12th house Shayya sthana has exalted Guru in Pushya nakshathra. 4th

Lord(homely environment lord) is shukra(Sukha/Comfort) and is with

9th lord Mars(Harsh) placed in 9th. Mars is aspecting 12th. Saturn

and Rahu in Lagna with 12th lord(Shayya). Thus i guess Vinay would be

having some difficulty with back needing special comfort ??. Even if

this is not the case, still Guru and his exaltaion in 12th aspected

by 9th lord and association of Venus with 4th lord can provide some

comfort. This is just my crude understanding and can be far from

truth. One can predict a lot based on nature of graha,rashi sheela,

(urdhva /adho), drishti, degrees, bhujya amshas, amsha drekkana

sambandhas etc etc when they are applied as DEFINED by mahamunis and

seen as a single entity or system.

Number of mattresses is amazing.But again it may be a general point

qualifying comfort.

I am sure that you are experienced enough to appreciate the knowledge

and efforts of astrologers like Inderjit ji. He was able to pin point

astrology etc. I understand that your expectations were not met as

compared with the readings from giants.

Thanks again for providing a learning opportunity

Pradeep

, " suniljohn_2002 "

<suniljohn_2002 wrote:

>

> Om Datta Guru

> Dear Vijayadas,

> I happen to be online. Thanks for your kind mail but what is the

use of

> me meeting these learned people many of them don't teach their

secrets.

> See this chart of an Ex-SJC Mumbai member

>

> Natal Chart

>

> June 3, 1979

> Time: 12:53:00

> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> Place: 73 E 05' 00 " , 19 N 10' 00 "

> Kalyan, India (Mumbai)

>

> When Ashok Upadahyaa one of the most brilliant astrologers i have

ever

> met saw this chart he said to me while the chart holder Vinay P was

on

> other line, ask him if he (Vinay) sleeps on a bed that has 3

mattresses

> , Vinay said yes. Then he predicted that exactly one week ago Vinay

> would have bought 3 white handkerchiefs, Vinay said no, after 2 mins

> Vinay said he bought 3 silk clothes small that he presented to

> Mahalakshmi Maas at the famous Kolhapur Temple and those 3 silk

small

> clothes were white in color. Last year June July this consultation

was

> done when for 1.5 years Vinay could not set up a business inspite of

> going to all internet parampara astrologers. Ashok bhai told him to

make

> 7 boats out of paper (small paper boats) and flow it in water at a

> particular time for 9 days each. Vinay did it and today he is

revenue is

> anyways, he is doing too well.

>

> Though there is no use of this prediction (handkerchief etc) but i

know

> why Ashok Bhai made that prediction he surely must be checking

something

> for verification, but when i ask the Don Astrologer as he is called

as

> to how he predicted he gives me logic which after 1 minute nobody

in the

> world will understand so then u get what he is trying to do - not

teach.

>

> But then whatever he teaches for eg his grasp on Laghu Parasari is

> 'Stunning' and then u feel ohh what are we doing in astrology, what

have

> all these astrologers in the past done, no doubt the Legendary

> Suryanarayain Vyas said Laghu Parasari is the Gita of Astrology. It

is

> only when i see how Ashok Bhai has decoded Laghu Parasari i realise

his

> utmost stunning mastery over it. How he uses only these 44 verses

for

> all his predictions is so breath taking & we run after 100

divisionals,

> 300 lagnas & 800 dasas and this man uses only 44 verses, when i

> challenge him on a prediction that he strayed away from Laghu

Parasari

> he gets upset with me and then blurts out the logic of it and co-

relates

> it to Laghu Parasari shloka. But then Ashoks Guru was the Great

Blind

> Astrologer Shri Shri Swami of yesteryears hunted by film stars Ashok

> Kumar Nutan etc

>

> I must get out of the list now it only consumes a lot of time &

nothing

> comes out of it, this is the problem with most forums.

>

> best wishes

> Sunil

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri Sunil

> >

> > Thank you very much for your valuable feed back and detailed mail.

> > It was a learning experience and a chance to correct our

> > mistakes.Inderjit ji is very experienced.You are fortunate to meet

> > many learned astrologers.

> >

> > I will write more later.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Pradeep

> >

> > In , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Datta Guru

> > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > I was almost out of this thread butthe word handicap & 3H that u

> > used

> > > brought me back.

> > >

> > > 1. > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> > > experiences

> > > > in life leading to vairagya.

> > >

> > > SJ: Bang On, i have not seen such a person living modern life

but

> > least

> > > bothered about possessions, he is so so dispassionate about

things,

> > he

> > > let go of his whole collection of books and i can go on and on,

if

> > > something does not happen he just moves out and i have observed

him

> > so

> > > so acutely since 3 yrs, u were bang on about this. I have not

met a

> > > Jyotishi like him who when predicts removes the feet under you

and

> > when

> > > u give feedback on the prediction a year later going correct he

is

> > > genuinely least bothered about it nor does he remember it. This

is

> > the

> > > vairagya thing apart from the spiritual part which i wont

mention

> > here

> > > to bore people.

> > >

> > > 2. I do not know if this person has any kind

> > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences)

> > >

> > > SJ: No physical handicap by Gods Grace and he is 63-64 now,

widely

> > > travelled, he has not written a book (i mention this due to 3H u

> > > mentioned and deb Sun there with A6 ), but he had made many

writers,

> > > cajoled them from Santhanam to the internet parampara writers.

> > Though i

> > > have begged him to write his experiences which would benefit the

> > astro

> > > community but he refuses to write. Re his 3H having deb Sun, his

> > > communication skills are very very Sharp and Rude to a major

> > extent, he

> > > is well respected in the olden astros of the Delhi circles,

when i

> > off

> > > hand once mentioned to K S Charak that i talk with him, Charak

was

> > > astonished and then when i said its our morning ritual to talk

1 hr

> > > daily since last 3 yrs he could not believe. the reason is when

> > this man

> > > walks into any astro circles people get afraid of him as he is

too

> > > honest and astrologers esp the bigwigs dont like an honest

student

> > of

> > > this shastra. I do not know which is the house of being too

> > critical but

> > > he is too patient and observant, he will observe an astrologers

> > > prediction for 20 yrs and then make judgement on him, he sticks

to

> > this

> > > 20 yrs for eg predictions made on the basis of Vishnu Dasa for

10

> > years

> > > on 20 people in Delhi, all failed predictions and then finally

he

> > will

> > > choose to believe or not believe, it is this experience that i

gain

> > from

> > > him when he says well if u want to follow spend your time on

Vishnu

> > Dasa

> > > but so far it has not worked on 20 people on predictions made

by the

> > > creator of that dasa only, lets observe for 10 more years. His

> > > communication skills though would appear wanting but he is very

> > > affectionate in it too and revered due to his honesty, i

remember

> > the

> > > olden days C S Patel would prepare one week in advance for the

> > visit of

> > > this gentleman. Patel would want everything perfect for his

visit,

> > if he

> > > gave a verse to Patel to translate Patel would take 1 week to

do so

> > and

> > > i had to sit and type every day, get print out then Patel would

> > change

> > > the english etc and i would tell Patel saheb, he has asked only

for

> > the

> > > meaning of the word Sambhanda, it is so simple, Patel would

tell me

> > Beta

> > > (son) if he is giving me a shloka to decipher it means indias

best

> > > sanskrit scholars have failed on it and if he gives me a chart

to

> > look

> > > into then it means all astrologers in delhi have failed on it.

This

> > man

> > > only carries failed charts in his pocket and from that he learns

> > > astrology.

> > >

> > > 3. On rest of the points u made, no major loss and he is well

to do,

> > > very well to do and well connected, often dines with the Prime

> > Ministers

> > > and Foreign Affairs ministers of other countries.

> > >

> > > 4. However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and

relating

> > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The person

> > possess

> > > > knowledge. Thus inspite of financial losses and changes, this

> > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> > > SJ: Yes very much into probing if one would call it research, he

> > would

> > > spend 6 months on only finding out the meaning of the word

karaka, i

> > > thought it was a joke as to why heis doing so after 40-50 yrs of

> > > astrology but when i hear him i realise none of us know

astrology,

> > once

> > > i took up discussion of kalachakra dasa with him he immediately

put

> > me

> > > to place that unless i know KCD well i should not speak as he

has

> > for 10

> > > yrs only studied kalachakra dasa and uses it. What impresses me

> > does not

> > > impress him as he is too senior, recently a book by Internet

> > Parampara

> > > came out he went and bought it, read it and next day he threw

it

> > so i

> > > asked him to give me as i was too impressed with the theories

in

> > it,

> > > the reason i quote this is that Sun is debilitated in this

chart and

> > > makes one too too sharp and analytical i guess after meeting

more

> > than

> > > 3000 of the best jyotishis in this country he knows what is

> > theoritical

> > > Crap that Gurus present in books to influence gullible

students &

> > > foreigners vs real predictive astrology. As they say the people

who

> > can

> > > predict will rarely get time to write a book as they would

always be

> > > flocked by people. E.g 2006 i showed him a chart of a internet

> > guru, in

> > > 2 secs this man said the internet gurus Guru does not know

> > astrology i

> > > said why, he said only a fool will teach him astrology, this man

> > will

> > > one day deceive and since 2007 i have been observing this coming

> > true.

> > >

> > > I think this Sun in 3H is making him more practical and in his

> > > travellings he has met giants of astrology and thats the reason

he

> > does

> > > not get impressed with Internet Astrologers Craps Theory

Assocation

> > as

> > > he has met too many giants whom we can only dream of meeting.

> > >

> > > Though i have gone more into answering ur post but i felt that

> > maybe i

> > > should share to the forum members a path of honesty they can

> > choose ,

> > > thats the greatest thing i learnt from this man in 3 yrs with

> > spending

> > > more than 1000 hrs minimum with him and let me tell you

Vijayadas i

> > have

> > > never met a student of astrology as honest as him towards this

> > science,

> > > when i look at him and compare us of the global internet flock i

> > feel we

> > > are just doing madiraka tamasha (jokers play).

> > >

> > > I have taken up a lot of everyones time i am off lists now

> > >

> > > best wishes

> > > Sunil

> > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shri Sunil and Inderjit ji

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the quiz and explanations. I had partially

attempted 2

> > > > charts on the 6th of Jan and some how could not complete and

> > moreover

> > > > did not feel like sending those. I had saved them to cross

check

> > with

> > > > results. It is incomplete and i didnt do any analysis today.

i am

> > > > posting them as such -

> > > > -------------------------

> > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > >

> > > > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> > experiences

> > > > in life leading to vairagya.I do not know if this person has

any

> > kind

> > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences).His 10th

lord is

> > > > debilitated ,but with his exaltation lord who is also the

lord of

> > 8th

> > > > (apart from 5th).Thus inspite of financial losses and changes,

> > this

> > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

Neecha

> > > > Shukra can also give interest in antiques and things which are

> > > > old.His 4th lord is debilitated and with saturn showing

losses and

> > > > difficulties related to 4th house, properties,settlement away

from

> > > > home.However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and

> > relating

> > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The person

> > possess

> > > > knowledge.

> > > >

> > > > His karakamsha(rashi) has saturn and mars and 5th from there

has

> > > > mercury.Whether he is an owner

> > > > -----------------------------

> > > >

> > > > 2nd person is also very intelligent and will have many

possessions

> > > > including books on various subjects.He can also be a writer

as 3rd

> > > > lord from karakamsha/moon and dispositor lagna is exalted fr

> > > >

> > > > --------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > Please confirm regarding handicap etc.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > >

November 20, 2008

Om Datta Guru

Dear Vijayadas,

Friend called me saying that you had posted on the forum, as i had

mentioned that i would be off lists so did not bother to come back.

Short mail and u must excuse me remaining away from lists due to work

pressures.

Re mattresses being number 3 Ashok bhai had given me the logic then but

now its been a year so i dont remember it. For everything he has a

logic, i will write more later

Pls excuse

best wishes

Sunil

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Sunil

>

> Thank you for sharing your experiences.I can also understand your

> frustrations.As you know Astrology is not about some magic formulas.

>

> There are different stages of learning and proportional

> degrees/levels of knowledge. Predictive abilities are important as

> you have rightly pointed out. Knowledge is never ending, thus you may

> bear with experienced astrologers who were unable to find all the

> answers which you were looking for.

>

> The astrologers you have mentioned may be really gifted due to their

> sound command over FUNDAMENTAL principles.

>

> These astrologers would have also begun by developing and

> understanding basics and observing consistent and repetitive patterns

> which were fine tuned later on.

>

> I agree with you that, it is not the number of tools or sophisticated

> techniques that matters. But command over fundamentals and usage of a

> basic tool. Once you have this command you can use different tools.

> But in reality what is happening today is people wants to paint and

> do the finishing touches even before the sculpture is ready!!.

>

> It was really great to note the three mattresses prediction. I feel

> there will definitely be some fundamentals behind these. I do not

> know. Broad guess can be in following lines -

>

> 12th house Shayya sthana has exalted Guru in Pushya nakshathra. 4th

> Lord(homely environment lord) is shukra(Sukha/Comfort) and is with

> 9th lord Mars(Harsh) placed in 9th. Mars is aspecting 12th. Saturn

> and Rahu in Lagna with 12th lord(Shayya). Thus i guess Vinay would be

> having some difficulty with back needing special comfort ??. Even if

> this is not the case, still Guru and his exaltaion in 12th aspected

> by 9th lord and association of Venus with 4th lord can provide some

> comfort. This is just my crude understanding and can be far from

> truth. One can predict a lot based on nature of graha,rashi sheela,

> (urdhva /adho), drishti, degrees, bhujya amshas, amsha drekkana

> sambandhas etc etc when they are applied as DEFINED by mahamunis and

> seen as a single entity or system.

>

> Number of mattresses is amazing.But again it may be a general point

> qualifying comfort.

>

> I am sure that you are experienced enough to appreciate the knowledge

> and efforts of astrologers like Inderjit ji. He was able to pin point

> astrology etc. I understand that your expectations were not met as

> compared with the readings from giants.

>

> Thanks again for providing a learning opportunity

> Pradeep

>

> , " suniljohn_2002 "

> suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> >

> > Om Datta Guru

> > Dear Vijayadas,

> > I happen to be online. Thanks for your kind mail but what is the

> use of

> > me meeting these learned people many of them don't teach their

> secrets.

> > See this chart of an Ex-SJC Mumbai member

> >

> > Natal Chart

> >

> > June 3, 1979

> > Time: 12:53:00

> > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > Place: 73 E 05' 00 " , 19 N 10' 00 "

> > Kalyan, India (Mumbai)

> >

> > When Ashok Upadahyaa one of the most brilliant astrologers i have

> ever

> > met saw this chart he said to me while the chart holder Vinay P was

> on

> > other line, ask him if he (Vinay) sleeps on a bed that has 3

> mattresses

> > , Vinay said yes. Then he predicted that exactly one week ago Vinay

> > would have bought 3 white handkerchiefs, Vinay said no, after 2 mins

> > Vinay said he bought 3 silk clothes small that he presented to

> > Mahalakshmi Maas at the famous Kolhapur Temple and those 3 silk

> small

> > clothes were white in color. Last year June July this consultation

> was

> > done when for 1.5 years Vinay could not set up a business inspite of

> > going to all internet parampara astrologers. Ashok bhai told him to

> make

> > 7 boats out of paper (small paper boats) and flow it in water at a

> > particular time for 9 days each. Vinay did it and today he is

> revenue is

> > anyways, he is doing too well.

> >

> > Though there is no use of this prediction (handkerchief etc) but i

> know

> > why Ashok Bhai made that prediction he surely must be checking

> something

> > for verification, but when i ask the Don Astrologer as he is called

> as

> > to how he predicted he gives me logic which after 1 minute nobody

> in the

> > world will understand so then u get what he is trying to do - not

> teach.

> >

> > But then whatever he teaches for eg his grasp on Laghu Parasari is

> > 'Stunning' and then u feel ohh what are we doing in astrology, what

> have

> > all these astrologers in the past done, no doubt the Legendary

> > Suryanarayain Vyas said Laghu Parasari is the Gita of Astrology. It

> is

> > only when i see how Ashok Bhai has decoded Laghu Parasari i realise

> his

> > utmost stunning mastery over it. How he uses only these 44 verses

> for

> > all his predictions is so breath taking & we run after 100

> divisionals,

> > 300 lagnas & 800 dasas and this man uses only 44 verses, when i

> > challenge him on a prediction that he strayed away from Laghu

> Parasari

> > he gets upset with me and then blurts out the logic of it and co-

> relates

> > it to Laghu Parasari shloka. But then Ashoks Guru was the Great

> Blind

> > Astrologer Shri Shri Swami of yesteryears hunted by film stars Ashok

> > Kumar Nutan etc

> >

> > I must get out of the list now it only consumes a lot of time &

> nothing

> > comes out of it, this is the problem with most forums.

> >

> > best wishes

> > Sunil

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > >

> > > Thank you very much for your valuable feed back and detailed mail.

> > > It was a learning experience and a chance to correct our

> > > mistakes.Inderjit ji is very experienced.You are fortunate to meet

> > > many learned astrologers.

> > >

> > > I will write more later.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > In , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > > I was almost out of this thread butthe word handicap & 3H that u

> > > used

> > > > brought me back.

> > > >

> > > > 1. > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> > > > experiences

> > > > > in life leading to vairagya.

> > > >

> > > > SJ: Bang On, i have not seen such a person living modern life

> but

> > > least

> > > > bothered about possessions, he is so so dispassionate about

> things,

> > > he

> > > > let go of his whole collection of books and i can go on and on,

> if

> > > > something does not happen he just moves out and i have observed

> him

> > > so

> > > > so acutely since 3 yrs, u were bang on about this. I have not

> met a

> > > > Jyotishi like him who when predicts removes the feet under you

> and

> > > when

> > > > u give feedback on the prediction a year later going correct he

> is

> > > > genuinely least bothered about it nor does he remember it. This

> is

> > > the

> > > > vairagya thing apart from the spiritual part which i wont

> mention

> > > here

> > > > to bore people.

> > > >

> > > > 2. I do not know if this person has any kind

> > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences)

> > > >

> > > > SJ: No physical handicap by Gods Grace and he is 63-64 now,

> widely

> > > > travelled, he has not written a book (i mention this due to 3H u

> > > > mentioned and deb Sun there with A6 ), but he had made many

> writers,

> > > > cajoled them from Santhanam to the internet parampara writers.

> > > Though i

> > > > have begged him to write his experiences which would benefit the

> > > astro

> > > > community but he refuses to write. Re his 3H having deb Sun, his

> > > > communication skills are very very Sharp and Rude to a major

> > > extent, he

> > > > is well respected in the olden astros of the Delhi circles,

> when i

> > > off

> > > > hand once mentioned to K S Charak that i talk with him, Charak

> was

> > > > astonished and then when i said its our morning ritual to talk

> 1 hr

> > > > daily since last 3 yrs he could not believe. the reason is when

> > > this man

> > > > walks into any astro circles people get afraid of him as he is

> too

> > > > honest and astrologers esp the bigwigs dont like an honest

> student

> > > of

> > > > this shastra. I do not know which is the house of being too

> > > critical but

> > > > he is too patient and observant, he will observe an astrologers

> > > > prediction for 20 yrs and then make judgement on him, he sticks

> to

> > > this

> > > > 20 yrs for eg predictions made on the basis of Vishnu Dasa for

> 10

> > > years

> > > > on 20 people in Delhi, all failed predictions and then finally

> he

> > > will

> > > > choose to believe or not believe, it is this experience that i

> gain

> > > from

> > > > him when he says well if u want to follow spend your time on

> Vishnu

> > > Dasa

> > > > but so far it has not worked on 20 people on predictions made

> by the

> > > > creator of that dasa only, lets observe for 10 more years. His

> > > > communication skills though would appear wanting but he is very

> > > > affectionate in it too and revered due to his honesty, i

> remember

> > > the

> > > > olden days C S Patel would prepare one week in advance for the

> > > visit of

> > > > this gentleman. Patel would want everything perfect for his

> visit,

> > > if he

> > > > gave a verse to Patel to translate Patel would take 1 week to

> do so

> > > and

> > > > i had to sit and type every day, get print out then Patel would

> > > change

> > > > the english etc and i would tell Patel saheb, he has asked only

> for

> > > the

> > > > meaning of the word Sambhanda, it is so simple, Patel would

> tell me

> > > Beta

> > > > (son) if he is giving me a shloka to decipher it means indias

> best

> > > > sanskrit scholars have failed on it and if he gives me a chart

> to

> > > look

> > > > into then it means all astrologers in delhi have failed on it.

> This

> > > man

> > > > only carries failed charts in his pocket and from that he learns

> > > > astrology.

> > > >

> > > > 3. On rest of the points u made, no major loss and he is well

> to do,

> > > > very well to do and well connected, often dines with the Prime

> > > Ministers

> > > > and Foreign Affairs ministers of other countries.

> > > >

> > > > 4. However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and

> relating

> > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The person

> > > possess

> > > > > knowledge. Thus inspite of financial losses and changes, this

> > > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> > > > SJ: Yes very much into probing if one would call it research, he

> > > would

> > > > spend 6 months on only finding out the meaning of the word

> karaka, i

> > > > thought it was a joke as to why heis doing so after 40-50 yrs of

> > > > astrology but when i hear him i realise none of us know

> astrology,

> > > once

> > > > i took up discussion of kalachakra dasa with him he immediately

> put

> > > me

> > > > to place that unless i know KCD well i should not speak as he

> has

> > > for 10

> > > > yrs only studied kalachakra dasa and uses it. What impresses me

> > > does not

> > > > impress him as he is too senior, recently a book by Internet

> > > Parampara

> > > > came out he went and bought it, read it and next day he threw

> it

> > > so i

> > > > asked him to give me as i was too impressed with the theories

> in

> > > it,

> > > > the reason i quote this is that Sun is debilitated in this

> chart and

> > > > makes one too too sharp and analytical i guess after meeting

> more

> > > than

> > > > 3000 of the best jyotishis in this country he knows what is

> > > theoritical

> > > > Crap that Gurus present in books to influence gullible

> students &

> > > > foreigners vs real predictive astrology. As they say the people

> who

> > > can

> > > > predict will rarely get time to write a book as they would

> always be

> > > > flocked by people. E.g 2006 i showed him a chart of a internet

> > > guru, in

> > > > 2 secs this man said the internet gurus Guru does not know

> > > astrology i

> > > > said why, he said only a fool will teach him astrology, this man

> > > will

> > > > one day deceive and since 2007 i have been observing this coming

> > > true.

> > > >

> > > > I think this Sun in 3H is making him more practical and in his

> > > > travellings he has met giants of astrology and thats the reason

> he

> > > does

> > > > not get impressed with Internet Astrologers Craps Theory

> Assocation

> > > as

> > > > he has met too many giants whom we can only dream of meeting.

> > > >

> > > > Though i have gone more into answering ur post but i felt that

> > > maybe i

> > > > should share to the forum members a path of honesty they can

> > > choose ,

> > > > thats the greatest thing i learnt from this man in 3 yrs with

> > > spending

> > > > more than 1000 hrs minimum with him and let me tell you

> Vijayadas i

> > > have

> > > > never met a student of astrology as honest as him towards this

> > > science,

> > > > when i look at him and compare us of the global internet flock i

> > > feel we

> > > > are just doing madiraka tamasha (jokers play).

> > > >

> > > > I have taken up a lot of everyones time i am off lists now

> > > >

> > > > best wishes

> > > > Sunil

> > > >

> > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shri Sunil and Inderjit ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the quiz and explanations. I had partially

> attempted 2

> > > > > charts on the 6th of Jan and some how could not complete and

> > > moreover

> > > > > did not feel like sending those. I had saved them to cross

> check

> > > with

> > > > > results. It is incomplete and i didnt do any analysis today.

> i am

> > > > > posting them as such -

> > > > > -------------------------

> > > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > > >

> > > > > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> > > experiences

> > > > > in life leading to vairagya.I do not know if this person has

> any

> > > kind

> > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences).His 10th

> lord is

> > > > > debilitated ,but with his exaltation lord who is also the

> lord of

> > > 8th

> > > > > (apart from 5th).Thus inspite of financial losses and changes,

> > > this

> > > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> Neecha

> > > > > Shukra can also give interest in antiques and things which are

> > > > > old.His 4th lord is debilitated and with saturn showing

> losses and

> > > > > difficulties related to 4th house, properties,settlement away

> from

> > > > > home.However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and

> > > relating

> > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The person

> > > possess

> > > > > knowledge.

> > > > >

> > > > > His karakamsha(rashi) has saturn and mars and 5th from there

> has

> > > > > mercury.Whether he is an owner

> > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > 2nd person is also very intelligent and will have many

> possessions

> > > > > including books on various subjects.He can also be a writer

> as 3rd

> > > > > lord from karakamsha/moon and dispositor lagna is exalted fr

> > > > >

> > > > > --------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > Please confirm regarding handicap etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > >

November 20, 2008

Thanks Sunil

I will wait. It would be educative if we could get the logic(number

3).

Regards

Pradeep

, " suniljohn_2002 "

<suniljohn_2002 wrote:

>

> Om Datta Guru

> Dear Vijayadas,

> Friend called me saying that you had posted on the forum, as i had

> mentioned that i would be off lists so did not bother to come back.

>

> Short mail and u must excuse me remaining away from lists due to

work

> pressures.

>

> Re mattresses being number 3 Ashok bhai had given me the logic then

but

> now its been a year so i dont remember it. For everything he has a

> logic, i will write more later

>

> Pls excuse

>

> best wishes

>

> Sunil

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri Sunil

> >

> > Thank you for sharing your experiences.I can also understand your

> > frustrations.As you know Astrology is not about some magic

formulas.

> >

> > There are different stages of learning and proportional

> > degrees/levels of knowledge. Predictive abilities are important as

> > you have rightly pointed out. Knowledge is never ending, thus you

may

> > bear with experienced astrologers who were unable to find all the

> > answers which you were looking for.

> >

> > The astrologers you have mentioned may be really gifted due to

their

> > sound command over FUNDAMENTAL principles.

> >

> > These astrologers would have also begun by developing and

> > understanding basics and observing consistent and repetitive

patterns

> > which were fine tuned later on.

> >

> > I agree with you that, it is not the number of tools or

sophisticated

> > techniques that matters. But command over fundamentals and usage

of a

> > basic tool. Once you have this command you can use different

tools.

> > But in reality what is happening today is people wants to paint

and

> > do the finishing touches even before the sculpture is ready!!.

> >

> > It was really great to note the three mattresses prediction. I

feel

> > there will definitely be some fundamentals behind these. I do not

> > know. Broad guess can be in following lines -

> >

> > 12th house Shayya sthana has exalted Guru in Pushya nakshathra.

4th

> > Lord(homely environment lord) is shukra(Sukha/Comfort) and is with

> > 9th lord Mars(Harsh) placed in 9th. Mars is aspecting 12th. Saturn

> > and Rahu in Lagna with 12th lord(Shayya). Thus i guess Vinay

would be

> > having some difficulty with back needing special comfort ??. Even

if

> > this is not the case, still Guru and his exaltaion in 12th

aspected

> > by 9th lord and association of Venus with 4th lord can provide

some

> > comfort. This is just my crude understanding and can be far from

> > truth. One can predict a lot based on nature of graha,rashi

sheela,

> > (urdhva /adho), drishti, degrees, bhujya amshas, amsha drekkana

> > sambandhas etc etc when they are applied as DEFINED by mahamunis

and

> > seen as a single entity or system.

> >

> > Number of mattresses is amazing.But again it may be a general

point

> > qualifying comfort.

> >

> > I am sure that you are experienced enough to appreciate the

knowledge

> > and efforts of astrologers like Inderjit ji. He was able to pin

point

> > astrology etc. I understand that your expectations were not met as

> > compared with the readings from giants.

> >

> > Thanks again for providing a learning opportunity

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Datta Guru

> > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > I happen to be online. Thanks for your kind mail but what is the

> > use of

> > > me meeting these learned people many of them don't teach their

> > secrets.

> > > See this chart of an Ex-SJC Mumbai member

> > >

> > > Natal Chart

> > >

> > > June 3, 1979

> > > Time: 12:53:00

> > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > Place: 73 E 05' 00 " , 19 N 10' 00 "

> > > Kalyan, India (Mumbai)

> > >

> > > When Ashok Upadahyaa one of the most brilliant astrologers i

have

> > ever

> > > met saw this chart he said to me while the chart holder Vinay P

was

> > on

> > > other line, ask him if he (Vinay) sleeps on a bed that has 3

> > mattresses

> > > , Vinay said yes. Then he predicted that exactly one week ago

Vinay

> > > would have bought 3 white handkerchiefs, Vinay said no, after 2

mins

> > > Vinay said he bought 3 silk clothes small that he presented to

> > > Mahalakshmi Maas at the famous Kolhapur Temple and those 3 silk

> > small

> > > clothes were white in color. Last year June July this

consultation

> > was

> > > done when for 1.5 years Vinay could not set up a business

inspite of

> > > going to all internet parampara astrologers. Ashok bhai told

him to

> > make

> > > 7 boats out of paper (small paper boats) and flow it in water

at a

> > > particular time for 9 days each. Vinay did it and today he is

> > revenue is

> > > anyways, he is doing too well.

> > >

> > > Though there is no use of this prediction (handkerchief etc)

but i

> > know

> > > why Ashok Bhai made that prediction he surely must be checking

> > something

> > > for verification, but when i ask the Don Astrologer as he is

called

> > as

> > > to how he predicted he gives me logic which after 1 minute

nobody

> > in the

> > > world will understand so then u get what he is trying to do -

not

> > teach.

> > >

> > > But then whatever he teaches for eg his grasp on Laghu Parasari

is

> > > 'Stunning' and then u feel ohh what are we doing in astrology,

what

> > have

> > > all these astrologers in the past done, no doubt the Legendary

> > > Suryanarayain Vyas said Laghu Parasari is the Gita of

Astrology. It

> > is

> > > only when i see how Ashok Bhai has decoded Laghu Parasari i

realise

> > his

> > > utmost stunning mastery over it. How he uses only these 44

verses

> > for

> > > all his predictions is so breath taking & we run after 100

> > divisionals,

> > > 300 lagnas & 800 dasas and this man uses only 44 verses, when i

> > > challenge him on a prediction that he strayed away from Laghu

> > Parasari

> > > he gets upset with me and then blurts out the logic of it and

co-

> > relates

> > > it to Laghu Parasari shloka. But then Ashoks Guru was the Great

> > Blind

> > > Astrologer Shri Shri Swami of yesteryears hunted by film stars

Ashok

> > > Kumar Nutan etc

> > >

> > > I must get out of the list now it only consumes a lot of time &

> > nothing

> > > comes out of it, this is the problem with most forums.

> > >

> > > best wishes

> > > Sunil

> > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > >

> > > > Thank you very much for your valuable feed back and detailed

mail.

> > > > It was a learning experience and a chance to correct our

> > > > mistakes.Inderjit ji is very experienced.You are fortunate to

meet

> > > > many learned astrologers.

> > > >

> > > > I will write more later.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > In , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > > > I was almost out of this thread butthe word handicap & 3H

that u

> > > > used

> > > > > brought me back.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone

major

> > > > > experiences

> > > > > > in life leading to vairagya.

> > > > >

> > > > > SJ: Bang On, i have not seen such a person living modern

life

> > but

> > > > least

> > > > > bothered about possessions, he is so so dispassionate about

> > things,

> > > > he

> > > > > let go of his whole collection of books and i can go on and

on,

> > if

> > > > > something does not happen he just moves out and i have

observed

> > him

> > > > so

> > > > > so acutely since 3 yrs, u were bang on about this. I have

not

> > met a

> > > > > Jyotishi like him who when predicts removes the feet under

you

> > and

> > > > when

> > > > > u give feedback on the prediction a year later going

correct he

> > is

> > > > > genuinely least bothered about it nor does he remember it.

This

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > vairagya thing apart from the spiritual part which i wont

> > mention

> > > > here

> > > > > to bore people.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. I do not know if this person has any kind

> > > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences)

> > > > >

> > > > > SJ: No physical handicap by Gods Grace and he is 63-64 now,

> > widely

> > > > > travelled, he has not written a book (i mention this due to

3H u

> > > > > mentioned and deb Sun there with A6 ), but he had made many

> > writers,

> > > > > cajoled them from Santhanam to the internet parampara

writers.

> > > > Though i

> > > > > have begged him to write his experiences which would

benefit the

> > > > astro

> > > > > community but he refuses to write. Re his 3H having deb

Sun, his

> > > > > communication skills are very very Sharp and Rude to a major

> > > > extent, he

> > > > > is well respected in the olden astros of the Delhi circles,

> > when i

> > > > off

> > > > > hand once mentioned to K S Charak that i talk with him,

Charak

> > was

> > > > > astonished and then when i said its our morning ritual to

talk

> > 1 hr

> > > > > daily since last 3 yrs he could not believe. the reason is

when

> > > > this man

> > > > > walks into any astro circles people get afraid of him as he

is

> > too

> > > > > honest and astrologers esp the bigwigs dont like an honest

> > student

> > > > of

> > > > > this shastra. I do not know which is the house of being too

> > > > critical but

> > > > > he is too patient and observant, he will observe an

astrologers

> > > > > prediction for 20 yrs and then make judgement on him, he

sticks

> > to

> > > > this

> > > > > 20 yrs for eg predictions made on the basis of Vishnu Dasa

for

> > 10

> > > > years

> > > > > on 20 people in Delhi, all failed predictions and then

finally

> > he

> > > > will

> > > > > choose to believe or not believe, it is this experience

that i

> > gain

> > > > from

> > > > > him when he says well if u want to follow spend your time on

> > Vishnu

> > > > Dasa

> > > > > but so far it has not worked on 20 people on predictions

made

> > by the

> > > > > creator of that dasa only, lets observe for 10 more years.

His

> > > > > communication skills though would appear wanting but he is

very

> > > > > affectionate in it too and revered due to his honesty, i

> > remember

> > > > the

> > > > > olden days C S Patel would prepare one week in advance for

the

> > > > visit of

> > > > > this gentleman. Patel would want everything perfect for his

> > visit,

> > > > if he

> > > > > gave a verse to Patel to translate Patel would take 1 week

to

> > do so

> > > > and

> > > > > i had to sit and type every day, get print out then Patel

would

> > > > change

> > > > > the english etc and i would tell Patel saheb, he has asked

only

> > for

> > > > the

> > > > > meaning of the word Sambhanda, it is so simple, Patel would

> > tell me

> > > > Beta

> > > > > (son) if he is giving me a shloka to decipher it means

indias

> > best

> > > > > sanskrit scholars have failed on it and if he gives me a

chart

> > to

> > > > look

> > > > > into then it means all astrologers in delhi have failed on

it.

> > This

> > > > man

> > > > > only carries failed charts in his pocket and from that he

learns

> > > > > astrology.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. On rest of the points u made, no major loss and he is

well

> > to do,

> > > > > very well to do and well connected, often dines with the

Prime

> > > > Ministers

> > > > > and Foreign Affairs ministers of other countries.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and

> > relating

> > > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The

person

> > > > possess

> > > > > > knowledge. Thus inspite of financial losses and changes,

this

> > > > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> > > > > SJ: Yes very much into probing if one would call it

research, he

> > > > would

> > > > > spend 6 months on only finding out the meaning of the word

> > karaka, i

> > > > > thought it was a joke as to why heis doing so after 40-50

yrs of

> > > > > astrology but when i hear him i realise none of us know

> > astrology,

> > > > once

> > > > > i took up discussion of kalachakra dasa with him he

immediately

> > put

> > > > me

> > > > > to place that unless i know KCD well i should not speak as

he

> > has

> > > > for 10

> > > > > yrs only studied kalachakra dasa and uses it. What

impresses me

> > > > does not

> > > > > impress him as he is too senior, recently a book by Internet

> > > > Parampara

> > > > > came out he went and bought it, read it and next day he

threw

> > it

> > > > so i

> > > > > asked him to give me as i was too impressed with the

theories

> > in

> > > > it,

> > > > > the reason i quote this is that Sun is debilitated in this

> > chart and

> > > > > makes one too too sharp and analytical i guess after meeting

> > more

> > > > than

> > > > > 3000 of the best jyotishis in this country he knows what is

> > > > theoritical

> > > > > Crap that Gurus present in books to influence gullible

> > students &

> > > > > foreigners vs real predictive astrology. As they say the

people

> > who

> > > > can

> > > > > predict will rarely get time to write a book as they would

> > always be

> > > > > flocked by people. E.g 2006 i showed him a chart of a

internet

> > > > guru, in

> > > > > 2 secs this man said the internet gurus Guru does not know

> > > > astrology i

> > > > > said why, he said only a fool will teach him astrology,

this man

> > > > will

> > > > > one day deceive and since 2007 i have been observing this

coming

> > > > true.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think this Sun in 3H is making him more practical and in

his

> > > > > travellings he has met giants of astrology and thats the

reason

> > he

> > > > does

> > > > > not get impressed with Internet Astrologers Craps Theory

> > Assocation

> > > > as

> > > > > he has met too many giants whom we can only dream of

meeting.

> > > > >

> > > > > Though i have gone more into answering ur post but i felt

that

> > > > maybe i

> > > > > should share to the forum members a path of honesty they can

> > > > choose ,

> > > > > thats the greatest thing i learnt from this man in 3 yrs

with

> > > > spending

> > > > > more than 1000 hrs minimum with him and let me tell you

> > Vijayadas i

> > > > have

> > > > > never met a student of astrology as honest as him towards

this

> > > > science,

> > > > > when i look at him and compare us of the global internet

flock i

> > > > feel we

> > > > > are just doing madiraka tamasha (jokers play).

> > > > >

> > > > > I have taken up a lot of everyones time i am off lists now

> > > > >

> > > > > best wishes

> > > > > Sunil

> > > > >

> > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil and Inderjit ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the quiz and explanations. I had partially

> > attempted 2

> > > > > > charts on the 6th of Jan and some how could not complete

and

> > > > moreover

> > > > > > did not feel like sending those. I had saved them to cross

> > check

> > > > with

> > > > > > results. It is incomplete and i didnt do any analysis

today.

> > i am

> > > > > > posting them as such -

> > > > > > -------------------------

> > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> > > > experiences

> > > > > > in life leading to vairagya.I do not know if this person

has

> > any

> > > > kind

> > > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences).His 10th

> > lord is

> > > > > > debilitated ,but with his exaltation lord who is also the

> > lord of

> > > > 8th

> > > > > > (apart from 5th).Thus inspite of financial losses and

changes,

> > > > this

> > > > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> > Neecha

> > > > > > Shukra can also give interest in antiques and things

which are

> > > > > > old.His 4th lord is debilitated and with saturn showing

> > losses and

> > > > > > difficulties related to 4th house, properties,settlement

away

> > from

> > > > > > home.However his gains and savings are going to the 4th

and

> > > > relating

> > > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The

person

> > > > possess

> > > > > > knowledge.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > His karakamsha(rashi) has saturn and mars and 5th from

there

> > has

> > > > > > mercury.Whether he is an owner

> > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2nd person is also very intelligent and will have many

> > possessions

> > > > > > including books on various subjects.He can also be a

writer

> > as 3rd

> > > > > > lord from karakamsha/moon and dispositor lagna is

exalted fr

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please confirm regarding handicap etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > >

November 21, 2008

Dear Sunil,

Many /unsuspecting/ people wanted to help you with your research-

at least you presented it as such-

time is a precious commodity for most of us, please don't spill your own

problems to others-

if you have hard to come by 'secret knowledge', AND participate on the

List, than share it!

Need for self-aggrandizement /don't we all know too much about numerous self

proclaimed " jyotish-royalties " - " small parasharas " OH/

combined with disrespectfulness for others are doomed to leave you frustrated-

final balance, justice, sort of.

My point is that what really matters is a person's character, knowledge is so

much easier to acquire!

To write that you are just wasting your time /with ignorants?on the List/ is

outright rude. Coming back /no matter what excuse/ to the same forum seems like

poor taste to me.

Anna

--- On Thu, 11/20/08, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002 wrote:

suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002

Re: Books and Karakas/The Gujurat Astrologer

Thursday, November 20, 2008, 5:43 AM

Om Datta Guru

Dear Vijayadas,

Friend called me saying that you had posted on the forum, as i had

mentioned that i would be off lists so did not bother to come back.

Short mail and u must excuse me remaining away from lists due to work

pressures.

Re mattresses being number 3 Ashok bhai had given me the logic then but

now its been a year so i dont remember it. For everything he has a

logic, i will write more later

Pls excuse

best wishes

Sunil

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Sunil

>

> Thank you for sharing your experiences. I can also understand your

> frustrations. As you know Astrology is not about some magic formulas.

>

> There are different stages of learning and proportional

> degrees/levels of knowledge. Predictive abilities are important as

> you have rightly pointed out. Knowledge is never ending, thus you may

> bear with experienced astrologers who were unable to find all the

> answers which you were looking for.

>

> The astrologers you have mentioned may be really gifted due to their

> sound command over FUNDAMENTAL principles.

>

> These astrologers would have also begun by developing and

> understanding basics and observing consistent and repetitive patterns

> which were fine tuned later on.

>

> I agree with you that, it is not the number of tools or sophisticated

> techniques that matters. But command over fundamentals and usage of a

> basic tool. Once you have this command you can use different tools.

> But in reality what is happening today is people wants to paint and

> do the finishing touches even before the sculpture is ready!!.

>

> It was really great to note the three mattresses prediction. I feel

> there will definitely be some fundamentals behind these. I do not

> know. Broad guess can be in following lines -

>

> 12th house Shayya sthana has exalted Guru in Pushya nakshathra. 4th

> Lord(homely environment lord) is shukra(Sukha/ Comfort) and is with

> 9th lord Mars(Harsh) placed in 9th. Mars is aspecting 12th. Saturn

> and Rahu in Lagna with 12th lord(Shayya) . Thus i guess Vinay would be

> having some difficulty with back needing special comfort ??. Even if

> this is not the case, still Guru and his exaltaion in 12th aspected

> by 9th lord and association of Venus with 4th lord can provide some

> comfort. This is just my crude understanding and can be far from

> truth. One can predict a lot based on nature of graha,rashi sheela,

> (urdhva /adho), drishti, degrees, bhujya amshas, amsha drekkana

> sambandhas etc etc when they are applied as DEFINED by mahamunis and

> seen as a single entity or system.

>

> Number of mattresses is amazing.But again it may be a general point

> qualifying comfort.

>

> I am sure that you are experienced enough to appreciate the knowledge

> and efforts of astrologers like Inderjit ji. He was able to pin point

> astrology etc. I understand that your expectations were not met as

> compared with the readings from giants.

>

> Thanks again for providing a learning opportunity

> Pradeep

>

> , " suniljohn_2002 "

> suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> >

> > Om Datta Guru

> > Dear Vijayadas,

> > I happen to be online. Thanks for your kind mail but what is the

> use of

> > me meeting these learned people many of them don't teach their

> secrets.

> > See this chart of an Ex-SJC Mumbai member

> >

> > Natal Chart

> >

> > June 3, 1979

> > Time: 12:53:00

> > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > Place: 73 E 05' 00 " , 19 N 10' 00 "

> > Kalyan, India (Mumbai)

> >

> > When Ashok Upadahyaa one of the most brilliant astrologers i have

> ever

> > met saw this chart he said to me while the chart holder Vinay P was

> on

> > other line, ask him if he (Vinay) sleeps on a bed that has 3

> mattresses

> > , Vinay said yes. Then he predicted that exactly one week ago Vinay

> > would have bought 3 white handkerchiefs, Vinay said no, after 2 mins

> > Vinay said he bought 3 silk clothes small that he presented to

> > Mahalakshmi Maas at the famous Kolhapur Temple and those 3 silk

> small

> > clothes were white in color. Last year June July this consultation

> was

> > done when for 1.5 years Vinay could not set up a business inspite of

> > going to all internet parampara astrologers. Ashok bhai told him to

> make

> > 7 boats out of paper (small paper boats) and flow it in water at a

> > particular time for 9 days each. Vinay did it and today he is

> revenue is

> > anyways, he is doing too well.

> >

> > Though there is no use of this prediction (handkerchief etc) but i

> know

> > why Ashok Bhai made that prediction he surely must be checking

> something

> > for verification, but when i ask the Don Astrologer as he is called

> as

> > to how he predicted he gives me logic which after 1 minute nobody

> in the

> > world will understand so then u get what he is trying to do - not

> teach.

> >

> > But then whatever he teaches for eg his grasp on Laghu Parasari is

> > 'Stunning' and then u feel ohh what are we doing in astrology, what

> have

> > all these astrologers in the past done, no doubt the Legendary

> > Suryanarayain Vyas said Laghu Parasari is the Gita of Astrology. It

> is

> > only when i see how Ashok Bhai has decoded Laghu Parasari i realise

> his

> > utmost stunning mastery over it. How he uses only these 44 verses

> for

> > all his predictions is so breath taking & we run after 100

> divisionals,

> > 300 lagnas & 800 dasas and this man uses only 44 verses, when i

> > challenge him on a prediction that he strayed away from Laghu

> Parasari

> > he gets upset with me and then blurts out the logic of it and co-

> relates

> > it to Laghu Parasari shloka. But then Ashoks Guru was the Great

> Blind

> > Astrologer Shri Shri Swami of yesteryears hunted by film stars Ashok

> > Kumar Nutan etc

> >

> > I must get out of the list now it only consumes a lot of time &

> nothing

> > comes out of it, this is the problem with most forums.

> >

> > best wishes

> > Sunil

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > >

> > > Thank you very much for your valuable feed back and detailed mail.

> > > It was a learning experience and a chance to correct our

> > > mistakes.Inderjit ji is very experienced. You are fortunate to meet

> > > many learned astrologers.

> > >

> > > I will write more later.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > In , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > > I was almost out of this thread butthe word handicap & 3H that u

> > > used

> > > > brought me back.

> > > >

> > > > 1. > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> > > > experiences

> > > > > in life leading to vairagya.

> > > >

> > > > SJ: Bang On, i have not seen such a person living modern life

> but

> > > least

> > > > bothered about possessions, he is so so dispassionate about

> things,

> > > he

> > > > let go of his whole collection of books and i can go on and on,

> if

> > > > something does not happen he just moves out and i have observed

> him

> > > so

> > > > so acutely since 3 yrs, u were bang on about this. I have not

> met a

> > > > Jyotishi like him who when predicts removes the feet under you

> and

> > > when

> > > > u give feedback on the prediction a year later going correct he

> is

> > > > genuinely least bothered about it nor does he remember it. This

> is

> > > the

> > > > vairagya thing apart from the spiritual part which i wont

> mention

> > > here

> > > > to bore people.

> > > >

> > > > 2. I do not know if this person has any kind

> > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences)

> > > >

> > > > SJ: No physical handicap by Gods Grace and he is 63-64 now,

> widely

> > > > travelled, he has not written a book (i mention this due to 3H u

> > > > mentioned and deb Sun there with A6 ), but he had made many

> writers,

> > > > cajoled them from Santhanam to the internet parampara writers.

> > > Though i

> > > > have begged him to write his experiences which would benefit the

> > > astro

> > > > community but he refuses to write. Re his 3H having deb Sun, his

> > > > communication skills are very very Sharp and Rude to a major

> > > extent, he

> > > > is well respected in the olden astros of the Delhi circles,

> when i

> > > off

> > > > hand once mentioned to K S Charak that i talk with him, Charak

> was

> > > > astonished and then when i said its our morning ritual to talk

> 1 hr

> > > > daily since last 3 yrs he could not believe. the reason is when

> > > this man

> > > > walks into any astro circles people get afraid of him as he is

> too

> > > > honest and astrologers esp the bigwigs dont like an honest

> student

> > > of

> > > > this shastra. I do not know which is the house of being too

> > > critical but

> > > > he is too patient and observant, he will observe an astrologers

> > > > prediction for 20 yrs and then make judgement on him, he sticks

> to

> > > this

> > > > 20 yrs for eg predictions made on the basis of Vishnu Dasa for

> 10

> > > years

> > > > on 20 people in Delhi, all failed predictions and then finally

> he

> > > will

> > > > choose to believe or not believe, it is this experience that i

> gain

> > > from

> > > > him when he says well if u want to follow spend your time on

> Vishnu

> > > Dasa

> > > > but so far it has not worked on 20 people on predictions made

> by the

> > > > creator of that dasa only, lets observe for 10 more years. His

> > > > communication skills though would appear wanting but he is very

> > > > affectionate in it too and revered due to his honesty, i

> remember

> > > the

> > > > olden days C S Patel would prepare one week in advance for the

> > > visit of

> > > > this gentleman. Patel would want everything perfect for his

> visit,

> > > if he

> > > > gave a verse to Patel to translate Patel would take 1 week to

> do so

> > > and

> > > > i had to sit and type every day, get print out then Patel would

> > > change

> > > > the english etc and i would tell Patel saheb, he has asked only

> for

> > > the

> > > > meaning of the word Sambhanda, it is so simple, Patel would

> tell me

> > > Beta

> > > > (son) if he is giving me a shloka to decipher it means indias

> best

> > > > sanskrit scholars have failed on it and if he gives me a chart

> to

> > > look

> > > > into then it means all astrologers in delhi have failed on it.

> This

> > > man

> > > > only carries failed charts in his pocket and from that he learns

> > > > astrology.

> > > >

> > > > 3. On rest of the points u made, no major loss and he is well

> to do,

> > > > very well to do and well connected, often dines with the Prime

> > > Ministers

> > > > and Foreign Affairs ministers of other countries.

> > > >

> > > > 4. However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and

> relating

> > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The person

> > > possess

> > > > > knowledge. Thus inspite of financial losses and changes, this

> > > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> > > > SJ: Yes very much into probing if one would call it research, he

> > > would

> > > > spend 6 months on only finding out the meaning of the word

> karaka, i

> > > > thought it was a joke as to why heis doing so after 40-50 yrs of

> > > > astrology but when i hear him i realise none of us know

> astrology,

> > > once

> > > > i took up discussion of kalachakra dasa with him he immediately

> put

> > > me

> > > > to place that unless i know KCD well i should not speak as he

> has

> > > for 10

> > > > yrs only studied kalachakra dasa and uses it. What impresses me

> > > does not

> > > > impress him as he is too senior, recently a book by Internet

> > > Parampara

> > > > came out he went and bought it, read it and next day he threw

> it

> > > so i

> > > > asked him to give me as i was too impressed with the theories

> in

> > > it,

> > > > the reason i quote this is that Sun is debilitated in this

> chart and

> > > > makes one too too sharp and analytical i guess after meeting

> more

> > > than

> > > > 3000 of the best jyotishis in this country he knows what is

> > > theoritical

> > > > Crap that Gurus present in books to influence gullible

> students &

> > > > foreigners vs real predictive astrology. As they say the people

> who

> > > can

> > > > predict will rarely get time to write a book as they would

> always be

> > > > flocked by people. E.g 2006 i showed him a chart of a internet

> > > guru, in

> > > > 2 secs this man said the internet gurus Guru does not know

> > > astrology i

> > > > said why, he said only a fool will teach him astrology, this man

> > > will

> > > > one day deceive and since 2007 i have been observing this coming

> > > true.

> > > >

> > > > I think this Sun in 3H is making him more practical and in his

> > > > travellings he has met giants of astrology and thats the reason

> he

> > > does

> > > > not get impressed with Internet Astrologers Craps Theory

> Assocation

> > > as

> > > > he has met too many giants whom we can only dream of meeting.

> > > >

> > > > Though i have gone more into answering ur post but i felt that

> > > maybe i

> > > > should share to the forum members a path of honesty they can

> > > choose ,

> > > > thats the greatest thing i learnt from this man in 3 yrs with

> > > spending

> > > > more than 1000 hrs minimum with him and let me tell you

> Vijayadas i

> > > have

> > > > never met a student of astrology as honest as him towards this

> > > science,

> > > > when i look at him and compare us of the global internet flock i

> > > feel we

> > > > are just doing madiraka tamasha (jokers play).

> > > >

> > > > I have taken up a lot of everyones time i am off lists now

> > > >

> > > > best wishes

> > > > Sunil

> > > >

> > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@ > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shri Sunil and Inderjit ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the quiz and explanations. I had partially

> attempted 2

> > > > > charts on the 6th of Jan and some how could not complete and

> > > moreover

> > > > > did not feel like sending those. I had saved them to cross

> check

> > > with

> > > > > results. It is incomplete and i didnt do any analysis today.

> i am

> > > > > posting them as such -

> > > > > ------------ --------- ----

> > > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > > >

> > > > > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> > > experiences

> > > > > in life leading to vairagya.I do not know if this person has

> any

> > > kind

> > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences). His 10th

> lord is

> > > > > debilitated ,but with his exaltation lord who is also the

> lord of

> > > 8th

> > > > > (apart from 5th).Thus inspite of financial losses and changes,

> > > this

> > > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> Neecha

> > > > > Shukra can also give interest in antiques and things which are

> > > > > old.His 4th lord is debilitated and with saturn showing

> losses and

> > > > > difficulties related to 4th house, properties,settleme nt away

> from

> > > > > home.However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and

> > > relating

> > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The person

> > > possess

> > > > > knowledge.

> > > > >

> > > > > His karakamsha(rashi) has saturn and mars and 5th from there

> has

> > > > > mercury.Whether he is an owner

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------

> > > > >

> > > > > 2nd person is also very intelligent and will have many

> possessions

> > > > > including books on various subjects.He can also be a writer

> as 3rd

> > > > > lord from karakamsha/moon and dispositor lagna is exalted fr

> > > > >

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --

> > > > >

> > > > > Please confirm regarding handicap etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > >

November 21, 2008

Just spoke to him, Jupiter is in Cancer (4) and Mars is in Aries (1),

aspecting this Jupiter so he deducted 4-1=3 and the 12H where Jupiter is

sitting is the house of sleep hence he predicted 3 mattresses. I find

this logic tough and wonder if it is repeatable but thats the problem

with Ashok Upadhaya to remove knowledge out of him is too long a process

and his logic and what is ours is different. What i could help i did

with some articles which Saptarishis Astrology has published but i am

working on to remove an article on secrets of each ascendant with him.

So far of what has been removed is mind blowing and it works on some

charts that i have but the real test is does it work on 100 charts of

each ascendant.

best wishes

SJ

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Thanks Sunil

>

> I will wait. It would be educative if we could get the logic(number

> 3).

>

> Regards

> Pradeep

>

> , " suniljohn_2002 "

> suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> >

> > Om Datta Guru

> > Dear Vijayadas,

> > Friend called me saying that you had posted on the forum, as i had

> > mentioned that i would be off lists so did not bother to come back.

> >

> > Short mail and u must excuse me remaining away from lists due to

> work

> > pressures.

> >

> > Re mattresses being number 3 Ashok bhai had given me the logic then

> but

> > now its been a year so i dont remember it. For everything he has a

> > logic, i will write more later

> >

> > Pls excuse

> >

> > best wishes

> >

> > Sunil

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > >

> > > Thank you for sharing your experiences.I can also understand your

> > > frustrations.As you know Astrology is not about some magic

> formulas.

> > >

> > > There are different stages of learning and proportional

> > > degrees/levels of knowledge. Predictive abilities are important as

> > > you have rightly pointed out. Knowledge is never ending, thus you

> may

> > > bear with experienced astrologers who were unable to find all the

> > > answers which you were looking for.

> > >

> > > The astrologers you have mentioned may be really gifted due to

> their

> > > sound command over FUNDAMENTAL principles.

> > >

> > > These astrologers would have also begun by developing and

> > > understanding basics and observing consistent and repetitive

> patterns

> > > which were fine tuned later on.

> > >

> > > I agree with you that, it is not the number of tools or

> sophisticated

> > > techniques that matters. But command over fundamentals and usage

> of a

> > > basic tool. Once you have this command you can use different

> tools.

> > > But in reality what is happening today is people wants to paint

> and

> > > do the finishing touches even before the sculpture is ready!!.

> > >

> > > It was really great to note the three mattresses prediction. I

> feel

> > > there will definitely be some fundamentals behind these. I do not

> > > know. Broad guess can be in following lines -

> > >

> > > 12th house Shayya sthana has exalted Guru in Pushya nakshathra.

> 4th

> > > Lord(homely environment lord) is shukra(Sukha/Comfort) and is with

> > > 9th lord Mars(Harsh) placed in 9th. Mars is aspecting 12th. Saturn

> > > and Rahu in Lagna with 12th lord(Shayya). Thus i guess Vinay

> would be

> > > having some difficulty with back needing special comfort ??. Even

> if

> > > this is not the case, still Guru and his exaltaion in 12th

> aspected

> > > by 9th lord and association of Venus with 4th lord can provide

> some

> > > comfort. This is just my crude understanding and can be far from

> > > truth. One can predict a lot based on nature of graha,rashi

> sheela,

> > > (urdhva /adho), drishti, degrees, bhujya amshas, amsha drekkana

> > > sambandhas etc etc when they are applied as DEFINED by mahamunis

> and

> > > seen as a single entity or system.

> > >

> > > Number of mattresses is amazing.But again it may be a general

> point

> > > qualifying comfort.

> > >

> > > I am sure that you are experienced enough to appreciate the

> knowledge

> > > and efforts of astrologers like Inderjit ji. He was able to pin

> point

> > > astrology etc. I understand that your expectations were not met as

> > > compared with the readings from giants.

> > >

> > > Thanks again for providing a learning opportunity

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > > I happen to be online. Thanks for your kind mail but what is the

> > > use of

> > > > me meeting these learned people many of them don't teach their

> > > secrets.

> > > > See this chart of an Ex-SJC Mumbai member

> > > >

> > > > Natal Chart

> > > >

> > > > June 3, 1979

> > > > Time: 12:53:00

> > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > Place: 73 E 05' 00 " , 19 N 10' 00 "

> > > > Kalyan, India (Mumbai)

> > > >

> > > > When Ashok Upadahyaa one of the most brilliant astrologers i

> have

> > > ever

> > > > met saw this chart he said to me while the chart holder Vinay P

> was

> > > on

> > > > other line, ask him if he (Vinay) sleeps on a bed that has 3

> > > mattresses

> > > > , Vinay said yes. Then he predicted that exactly one week ago

> Vinay

> > > > would have bought 3 white handkerchiefs, Vinay said no, after 2

> mins

> > > > Vinay said he bought 3 silk clothes small that he presented to

> > > > Mahalakshmi Maas at the famous Kolhapur Temple and those 3 silk

> > > small

> > > > clothes were white in color. Last year June July this

> consultation

> > > was

> > > > done when for 1.5 years Vinay could not set up a business

> inspite of

> > > > going to all internet parampara astrologers. Ashok bhai told

> him to

> > > make

> > > > 7 boats out of paper (small paper boats) and flow it in water

> at a

> > > > particular time for 9 days each. Vinay did it and today he is

> > > revenue is

> > > > anyways, he is doing too well.

> > > >

> > > > Though there is no use of this prediction (handkerchief etc)

> but i

> > > know

> > > > why Ashok Bhai made that prediction he surely must be checking

> > > something

> > > > for verification, but when i ask the Don Astrologer as he is

> called

> > > as

> > > > to how he predicted he gives me logic which after 1 minute

> nobody

> > > in the

> > > > world will understand so then u get what he is trying to do -

> not

> > > teach.

> > > >

> > > > But then whatever he teaches for eg his grasp on Laghu Parasari

> is

> > > > 'Stunning' and then u feel ohh what are we doing in astrology,

> what

> > > have

> > > > all these astrologers in the past done, no doubt the Legendary

> > > > Suryanarayain Vyas said Laghu Parasari is the Gita of

> Astrology. It

> > > is

> > > > only when i see how Ashok Bhai has decoded Laghu Parasari i

> realise

> > > his

> > > > utmost stunning mastery over it. How he uses only these 44

> verses

> > > for

> > > > all his predictions is so breath taking & we run after 100

> > > divisionals,

> > > > 300 lagnas & 800 dasas and this man uses only 44 verses, when i

> > > > challenge him on a prediction that he strayed away from Laghu

> > > Parasari

> > > > he gets upset with me and then blurts out the logic of it and

> co-

> > > relates

> > > > it to Laghu Parasari shloka. But then Ashoks Guru was the Great

> > > Blind

> > > > Astrologer Shri Shri Swami of yesteryears hunted by film stars

> Ashok

> > > > Kumar Nutan etc

> > > >

> > > > I must get out of the list now it only consumes a lot of time &

> > > nothing

> > > > comes out of it, this is the problem with most forums.

> > > >

> > > > best wishes

> > > > Sunil

> > > >

> > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you very much for your valuable feed back and detailed

> mail.

> > > > > It was a learning experience and a chance to correct our

> > > > > mistakes.Inderjit ji is very experienced.You are fortunate to

> meet

> > > > > many learned astrologers.

> > > > >

> > > > > I will write more later.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > > In , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > > > > I was almost out of this thread butthe word handicap & 3H

> that u

> > > > > used

> > > > > > brought me back.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone

> major

> > > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > in life leading to vairagya.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SJ: Bang On, i have not seen such a person living modern

> life

> > > but

> > > > > least

> > > > > > bothered about possessions, he is so so dispassionate about

> > > things,

> > > > > he

> > > > > > let go of his whole collection of books and i can go on and

> on,

> > > if

> > > > > > something does not happen he just moves out and i have

> observed

> > > him

> > > > > so

> > > > > > so acutely since 3 yrs, u were bang on about this. I have

> not

> > > met a

> > > > > > Jyotishi like him who when predicts removes the feet under

> you

> > > and

> > > > > when

> > > > > > u give feedback on the prediction a year later going

> correct he

> > > is

> > > > > > genuinely least bothered about it nor does he remember it.

> This

> > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > vairagya thing apart from the spiritual part which i wont

> > > mention

> > > > > here

> > > > > > to bore people.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. I do not know if this person has any kind

> > > > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SJ: No physical handicap by Gods Grace and he is 63-64 now,

> > > widely

> > > > > > travelled, he has not written a book (i mention this due to

> 3H u

> > > > > > mentioned and deb Sun there with A6 ), but he had made many

> > > writers,

> > > > > > cajoled them from Santhanam to the internet parampara

> writers.

> > > > > Though i

> > > > > > have begged him to write his experiences which would

> benefit the

> > > > > astro

> > > > > > community but he refuses to write. Re his 3H having deb

> Sun, his

> > > > > > communication skills are very very Sharp and Rude to a major

> > > > > extent, he

> > > > > > is well respected in the olden astros of the Delhi circles,

> > > when i

> > > > > off

> > > > > > hand once mentioned to K S Charak that i talk with him,

> Charak

> > > was

> > > > > > astonished and then when i said its our morning ritual to

> talk

> > > 1 hr

> > > > > > daily since last 3 yrs he could not believe. the reason is

> when

> > > > > this man

> > > > > > walks into any astro circles people get afraid of him as he

> is

> > > too

> > > > > > honest and astrologers esp the bigwigs dont like an honest

> > > student

> > > > > of

> > > > > > this shastra. I do not know which is the house of being too

> > > > > critical but

> > > > > > he is too patient and observant, he will observe an

> astrologers

> > > > > > prediction for 20 yrs and then make judgement on him, he

> sticks

> > > to

> > > > > this

> > > > > > 20 yrs for eg predictions made on the basis of Vishnu Dasa

> for

> > > 10

> > > > > years

> > > > > > on 20 people in Delhi, all failed predictions and then

> finally

> > > he

> > > > > will

> > > > > > choose to believe or not believe, it is this experience

> that i

> > > gain

> > > > > from

> > > > > > him when he says well if u want to follow spend your time on

> > > Vishnu

> > > > > Dasa

> > > > > > but so far it has not worked on 20 people on predictions

> made

> > > by the

> > > > > > creator of that dasa only, lets observe for 10 more years.

> His

> > > > > > communication skills though would appear wanting but he is

> very

> > > > > > affectionate in it too and revered due to his honesty, i

> > > remember

> > > > > the

> > > > > > olden days C S Patel would prepare one week in advance for

> the

> > > > > visit of

> > > > > > this gentleman. Patel would want everything perfect for his

> > > visit,

> > > > > if he

> > > > > > gave a verse to Patel to translate Patel would take 1 week

> to

> > > do so

> > > > > and

> > > > > > i had to sit and type every day, get print out then Patel

> would

> > > > > change

> > > > > > the english etc and i would tell Patel saheb, he has asked

> only

> > > for

> > > > > the

> > > > > > meaning of the word Sambhanda, it is so simple, Patel would

> > > tell me

> > > > > Beta

> > > > > > (son) if he is giving me a shloka to decipher it means

> indias

> > > best

> > > > > > sanskrit scholars have failed on it and if he gives me a

> chart

> > > to

> > > > > look

> > > > > > into then it means all astrologers in delhi have failed on

> it.

> > > This

> > > > > man

> > > > > > only carries failed charts in his pocket and from that he

> learns

> > > > > > astrology.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. On rest of the points u made, no major loss and he is

> well

> > > to do,

> > > > > > very well to do and well connected, often dines with the

> Prime

> > > > > Ministers

> > > > > > and Foreign Affairs ministers of other countries.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4. However his gains and savings are going to the 4th and

> > > relating

> > > > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The

> person

> > > > > possess

> > > > > > > knowledge. Thus inspite of financial losses and changes,

> this

> > > > > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> > > > > > SJ: Yes very much into probing if one would call it

> research, he

> > > > > would

> > > > > > spend 6 months on only finding out the meaning of the word

> > > karaka, i

> > > > > > thought it was a joke as to why heis doing so after 40-50

> yrs of

> > > > > > astrology but when i hear him i realise none of us know

> > > astrology,

> > > > > once

> > > > > > i took up discussion of kalachakra dasa with him he

> immediately

> > > put

> > > > > me

> > > > > > to place that unless i know KCD well i should not speak as

> he

> > > has

> > > > > for 10

> > > > > > yrs only studied kalachakra dasa and uses it. What

> impresses me

> > > > > does not

> > > > > > impress him as he is too senior, recently a book by Internet

> > > > > Parampara

> > > > > > came out he went and bought it, read it and next day he

> threw

> > > it

> > > > > so i

> > > > > > asked him to give me as i was too impressed with the

> theories

> > > in

> > > > > it,

> > > > > > the reason i quote this is that Sun is debilitated in this

> > > chart and

> > > > > > makes one too too sharp and analytical i guess after meeting

> > > more

> > > > > than

> > > > > > 3000 of the best jyotishis in this country he knows what is

> > > > > theoritical

> > > > > > Crap that Gurus present in books to influence gullible

> > > students &

> > > > > > foreigners vs real predictive astrology. As they say the

> people

> > > who

> > > > > can

> > > > > > predict will rarely get time to write a book as they would

> > > always be

> > > > > > flocked by people. E.g 2006 i showed him a chart of a

> internet

> > > > > guru, in

> > > > > > 2 secs this man said the internet gurus Guru does not know

> > > > > astrology i

> > > > > > said why, he said only a fool will teach him astrology,

> this man

> > > > > will

> > > > > > one day deceive and since 2007 i have been observing this

> coming

> > > > > true.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think this Sun in 3H is making him more practical and in

> his

> > > > > > travellings he has met giants of astrology and thats the

> reason

> > > he

> > > > > does

> > > > > > not get impressed with Internet Astrologers Craps Theory

> > > Assocation

> > > > > as

> > > > > > he has met too many giants whom we can only dream of

> meeting.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Though i have gone more into answering ur post but i felt

> that

> > > > > maybe i

> > > > > > should share to the forum members a path of honesty they can

> > > > > choose ,

> > > > > > thats the greatest thing i learnt from this man in 3 yrs

> with

> > > > > spending

> > > > > > more than 1000 hrs minimum with him and let me tell you

> > > Vijayadas i

> > > > > have

> > > > > > never met a student of astrology as honest as him towards

> this

> > > > > science,

> > > > > > when i look at him and compare us of the global internet

> flock i

> > > > > feel we

> > > > > > are just doing madiraka tamasha (jokers play).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have taken up a lot of everyones time i am off lists now

> > > > > >

> > > > > > best wishes

> > > > > > Sunil

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil and Inderjit ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for the quiz and explanations. I had partially

> > > attempted 2

> > > > > > > charts on the 6th of Jan and some how could not complete

> and

> > > > > moreover

> > > > > > > did not feel like sending those. I had saved them to cross

> > > check

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > results. It is incomplete and i didnt do any analysis

> today.

> > > i am

> > > > > > > posting them as such -

> > > > > > > -------------------------

> > > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone major

> > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > in life leading to vairagya.I do not know if this person

> has

> > > any

> > > > > kind

> > > > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences).His 10th

> > > lord is

> > > > > > > debilitated ,but with his exaltation lord who is also the

> > > lord of

> > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > (apart from 5th).Thus inspite of financial losses and

> changes,

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > person will have great interest in research of some kind.

> > > Neecha

> > > > > > > Shukra can also give interest in antiques and things

> which are

> > > > > > > old.His 4th lord is debilitated and with saturn showing

> > > losses and

> > > > > > > difficulties related to 4th house, properties,settlement

> away

> > > from

> > > > > > > home.However his gains and savings are going to the 4th

> and

> > > > > relating

> > > > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The

> person

> > > > > possess

> > > > > > > knowledge.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > His karakamsha(rashi) has saturn and mars and 5th from

> there

> > > has

> > > > > > > mercury.Whether he is an owner

> > > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2nd person is also very intelligent and will have many

> > > possessions

> > > > > > > including books on various subjects.He can also be a

> writer

> > > as 3rd

> > > > > > > lord from karakamsha/moon and dispositor lagna is

> exalted fr

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please confirm regarding handicap etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

November 22, 2008

Dear Sunil

Thanks for the mail and info.

There should be some extra logic above the said one. Moreover one

should not apply such logic blindly across charts. Multiple factors

may need to be considered regarding applicability.

How long did it take the atsrologer to predict this. How well in

adavnce did you give the chart. This will be helpful.

Regards

Pradeep

, " suniljohn_2002 "

<suniljohn_2002 wrote:

>

> Just spoke to him, Jupiter is in Cancer (4) and Mars is in Aries

(1),

> aspecting this Jupiter so he deducted 4-1=3 and the 12H where

Jupiter is

> sitting is the house of sleep hence he predicted 3 mattresses. I

find

> this logic tough and wonder if it is repeatable but thats the

problem

> with Ashok Upadhaya to remove knowledge out of him is too long a

process

> and his logic and what is ours is different. What i could help i did

> with some articles which Saptarishis Astrology has published but i

am

> working on to remove an article on secrets of each ascendant with

him.

> So far of what has been removed is mind blowing and it works on some

> charts that i have but the real test is does it work on 100 charts

of

> each ascendant.

>

> best wishes

> SJ

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks Sunil

> >

> > I will wait. It would be educative if we could get the logic

(number

> > 3).

> >

> > Regards

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Datta Guru

> > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > Friend called me saying that you had posted on the forum, as i

had

> > > mentioned that i would be off lists so did not bother to come

back.

> > >

> > > Short mail and u must excuse me remaining away from lists due to

> > work

> > > pressures.

> > >

> > > Re mattresses being number 3 Ashok bhai had given me the logic

then

> > but

> > > now its been a year so i dont remember it. For everything he

has a

> > > logic, i will write more later

> > >

> > > Pls excuse

> > >

> > > best wishes

> > >

> > > Sunil

> > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for sharing your experiences.I can also understand

your

> > > > frustrations.As you know Astrology is not about some magic

> > formulas.

> > > >

> > > > There are different stages of learning and proportional

> > > > degrees/levels of knowledge. Predictive abilities are

important as

> > > > you have rightly pointed out. Knowledge is never ending, thus

you

> > may

> > > > bear with experienced astrologers who were unable to find all

the

> > > > answers which you were looking for.

> > > >

> > > > The astrologers you have mentioned may be really gifted due to

> > their

> > > > sound command over FUNDAMENTAL principles.

> > > >

> > > > These astrologers would have also begun by developing and

> > > > understanding basics and observing consistent and repetitive

> > patterns

> > > > which were fine tuned later on.

> > > >

> > > > I agree with you that, it is not the number of tools or

> > sophisticated

> > > > techniques that matters. But command over fundamentals and

usage

> > of a

> > > > basic tool. Once you have this command you can use different

> > tools.

> > > > But in reality what is happening today is people wants to

paint

> > and

> > > > do the finishing touches even before the sculpture is ready!!.

> > > >

> > > > It was really great to note the three mattresses prediction. I

> > feel

> > > > there will definitely be some fundamentals behind these. I do

not

> > > > know. Broad guess can be in following lines -

> > > >

> > > > 12th house Shayya sthana has exalted Guru in Pushya

nakshathra.

> > 4th

> > > > Lord(homely environment lord) is shukra(Sukha/Comfort) and is

with

> > > > 9th lord Mars(Harsh) placed in 9th. Mars is aspecting 12th.

Saturn

> > > > and Rahu in Lagna with 12th lord(Shayya). Thus i guess Vinay

> > would be

> > > > having some difficulty with back needing special comfort ??.

Even

> > if

> > > > this is not the case, still Guru and his exaltaion in 12th

> > aspected

> > > > by 9th lord and association of Venus with 4th lord can provide

> > some

> > > > comfort. This is just my crude understanding and can be far

from

> > > > truth. One can predict a lot based on nature of graha,rashi

> > sheela,

> > > > (urdhva /adho), drishti, degrees, bhujya amshas, amsha

drekkana

> > > > sambandhas etc etc when they are applied as DEFINED by

mahamunis

> > and

> > > > seen as a single entity or system.

> > > >

> > > > Number of mattresses is amazing.But again it may be a general

> > point

> > > > qualifying comfort.

> > > >

> > > > I am sure that you are experienced enough to appreciate the

> > knowledge

> > > > and efforts of astrologers like Inderjit ji. He was able to

> > point

> > > > astrology etc. I understand that your expectations were not

met as

> > > > compared with the readings from giants.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks again for providing a learning opportunity

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > > > I happen to be online. Thanks for your kind mail but what

is the

> > > > use of

> > > > > me meeting these learned people many of them don't teach

their

> > > > secrets.

> > > > > See this chart of an Ex-SJC Mumbai member

> > > > >

> > > > > Natal Chart

> > > > >

> > > > > June 3, 1979

> > > > > Time: 12:53:00

> > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > Place: 73 E 05' 00 " , 19 N 10' 00 "

> > > > > Kalyan, India (Mumbai)

> > > > >

> > > > > When Ashok Upadahyaa one of the most brilliant astrologers i

> > have

> > > > ever

> > > > > met saw this chart he said to me while the chart holder

Vinay P

> > was

> > > > on

> > > > > other line, ask him if he (Vinay) sleeps on a bed that has 3

> > > > mattresses

> > > > > , Vinay said yes. Then he predicted that exactly one week

ago

> > Vinay

> > > > > would have bought 3 white handkerchiefs, Vinay said no,

after 2

> > mins

> > > > > Vinay said he bought 3 silk clothes small that he presented

to

> > > > > Mahalakshmi Maas at the famous Kolhapur Temple and those 3

silk

> > > > small

> > > > > clothes were white in color. Last year June July this

> > consultation

> > > > was

> > > > > done when for 1.5 years Vinay could not set up a business

> > inspite of

> > > > > going to all internet parampara astrologers. Ashok bhai told

> > him to

> > > > make

> > > > > 7 boats out of paper (small paper boats) and flow it in

water

> > at a

> > > > > particular time for 9 days each. Vinay did it and today he

is

> > > > revenue is

> > > > > anyways, he is doing too well.

> > > > >

> > > > > Though there is no use of this prediction (handkerchief etc)

> > but i

> > > > know

> > > > > why Ashok Bhai made that prediction he surely must be

checking

> > > > something

> > > > > for verification, but when i ask the Don Astrologer as he is

> > called

> > > > as

> > > > > to how he predicted he gives me logic which after 1 minute

> > nobody

> > > > in the

> > > > > world will understand so then u get what he is trying to

do -

> > not

> > > > teach.

> > > > >

> > > > > But then whatever he teaches for eg his grasp on Laghu

Parasari

> > is

> > > > > 'Stunning' and then u feel ohh what are we doing in

astrology,

> > what

> > > > have

> > > > > all these astrologers in the past done, no doubt the

Legendary

> > > > > Suryanarayain Vyas said Laghu Parasari is the Gita of

> > Astrology. It

> > > > is

> > > > > only when i see how Ashok Bhai has decoded Laghu Parasari i

> > realise

> > > > his

> > > > > utmost stunning mastery over it. How he uses only these 44

> > verses

> > > > for

> > > > > all his predictions is so breath taking & we run after 100

> > > > divisionals,

> > > > > 300 lagnas & 800 dasas and this man uses only 44 verses,

when i

> > > > > challenge him on a prediction that he strayed away from

Laghu

> > > > Parasari

> > > > > he gets upset with me and then blurts out the logic of it

and

> > co-

> > > > relates

> > > > > it to Laghu Parasari shloka. But then Ashoks Guru was the

Great

> > > > Blind

> > > > > Astrologer Shri Shri Swami of yesteryears hunted by film

stars

> > Ashok

> > > > > Kumar Nutan etc

> > > > >

> > > > > I must get out of the list now it only consumes a lot of

time &

> > > > nothing

> > > > > comes out of it, this is the problem with most forums.

> > > > >

> > > > > best wishes

> > > > > Sunil

> > > > >

> > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you very much for your valuable feed back and

detailed

> > mail.

> > > > > > It was a learning experience and a chance to correct our

> > > > > > mistakes.Inderjit ji is very experienced.You are

fortunate to

> > meet

> > > > > > many learned astrologers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will write more later.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > > > > > I was almost out of this thread butthe word handicap &

3H

> > that u

> > > > > > used

> > > > > > > brought me back.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone

> > major

> > > > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > > in life leading to vairagya.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > SJ: Bang On, i have not seen such a person living modern

> > life

> > > > but

> > > > > > least

> > > > > > > bothered about possessions, he is so so dispassionate

about

> > > > things,

> > > > > > he

> > > > > > > let go of his whole collection of books and i can go on

and

> > on,

> > > > if

> > > > > > > something does not happen he just moves out and i have

> > observed

> > > > him

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > so acutely since 3 yrs, u were bang on about this. I

have

> > not

> > > > met a

> > > > > > > Jyotishi like him who when predicts removes the feet

under

> > you

> > > > and

> > > > > > when

> > > > > > > u give feedback on the prediction a year later going

> > correct he

> > > > is

> > > > > > > genuinely least bothered about it nor does he remember

it.

> > This

> > > > is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > vairagya thing apart from the spiritual part which i

wont

> > > > mention

> > > > > > here

> > > > > > > to bore people.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2. I do not know if this person has any kind

> > > > > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > SJ: No physical handicap by Gods Grace and he is 63-64

now,

> > > > widely

> > > > > > > travelled, he has not written a book (i mention this

due to

> > 3H u

> > > > > > > mentioned and deb Sun there with A6 ), but he had made

many

> > > > writers,

> > > > > > > cajoled them from Santhanam to the internet parampara

> > writers.

> > > > > > Though i

> > > > > > > have begged him to write his experiences which would

> > benefit the

> > > > > > astro

> > > > > > > community but he refuses to write. Re his 3H having deb

> > Sun, his

> > > > > > > communication skills are very very Sharp and Rude to a

major

> > > > > > extent, he

> > > > > > > is well respected in the olden astros of the Delhi

circles,

> > > > when i

> > > > > > off

> > > > > > > hand once mentioned to K S Charak that i talk with him,

> > Charak

> > > > was

> > > > > > > astonished and then when i said its our morning ritual

to

> > talk

> > > > 1 hr

> > > > > > > daily since last 3 yrs he could not believe. the reason

is

> > when

> > > > > > this man

> > > > > > > walks into any astro circles people get afraid of him

as he

> > is

> > > > too

> > > > > > > honest and astrologers esp the bigwigs dont like an

honest

> > > > student

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > this shastra. I do not know which is the house of being

too

> > > > > > critical but

> > > > > > > he is too patient and observant, he will observe an

> > astrologers

> > > > > > > prediction for 20 yrs and then make judgement on him, he

> > sticks

> > > > to

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > 20 yrs for eg predictions made on the basis of Vishnu

Dasa

> > for

> > > > 10

> > > > > > years

> > > > > > > on 20 people in Delhi, all failed predictions and then

> > finally

> > > > he

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > choose to believe or not believe, it is this experience

> > that i

> > > > gain

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > him when he says well if u want to follow spend your

time on

> > > > Vishnu

> > > > > > Dasa

> > > > > > > but so far it has not worked on 20 people on predictions

> > made

> > > > by the

> > > > > > > creator of that dasa only, lets observe for 10 more

years.

> > His

> > > > > > > communication skills though would appear wanting but he

is

> > very

> > > > > > > affectionate in it too and revered due to his honesty, i

> > > > remember

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > olden days C S Patel would prepare one week in advance

for

> > the

> > > > > > visit of

> > > > > > > this gentleman. Patel would want everything perfect for

his

> > > > visit,

> > > > > > if he

> > > > > > > gave a verse to Patel to translate Patel would take 1

week

> > to

> > > > do so

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > i had to sit and type every day, get print out then

Patel

> > would

> > > > > > change

> > > > > > > the english etc and i would tell Patel saheb, he has

asked

> > only

> > > > for

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > meaning of the word Sambhanda, it is so simple, Patel

would

> > > > tell me

> > > > > > Beta

> > > > > > > (son) if he is giving me a shloka to decipher it means

> > indias

> > > > best

> > > > > > > sanskrit scholars have failed on it and if he gives me a

> > chart

> > > > to

> > > > > > look

> > > > > > > into then it means all astrologers in delhi have failed

on

> > it.

> > > > This

> > > > > > man

> > > > > > > only carries failed charts in his pocket and from that

he

> > learns

> > > > > > > astrology.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. On rest of the points u made, no major loss and he is

> > well

> > > > to do,

> > > > > > > very well to do and well connected, often dines with the

> > Prime

> > > > > > Ministers

> > > > > > > and Foreign Affairs ministers of other countries.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 4. However his gains and savings are going to the 4th

and

> > > > relating

> > > > > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The

> > person

> > > > > > possess

> > > > > > > > knowledge. Thus inspite of financial losses and

changes,

> > this

> > > > > > > > person will have great interest in research of some

kind.

> > > > > > > SJ: Yes very much into probing if one would call it

> > research, he

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > spend 6 months on only finding out the meaning of the

word

> > > > karaka, i

> > > > > > > thought it was a joke as to why heis doing so after 40-

50

> > yrs of

> > > > > > > astrology but when i hear him i realise none of us know

> > > > astrology,

> > > > > > once

> > > > > > > i took up discussion of kalachakra dasa with him he

> > immediately

> > > > put

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > to place that unless i know KCD well i should not speak

as

> > he

> > > > has

> > > > > > for 10

> > > > > > > yrs only studied kalachakra dasa and uses it. What

> > impresses me

> > > > > > does not

> > > > > > > impress him as he is too senior, recently a book by

Internet

> > > > > > Parampara

> > > > > > > came out he went and bought it, read it and next day he

> > threw

> > > > it

> > > > > > so i

> > > > > > > asked him to give me as i was too impressed with the

> > theories

> > > > in

> > > > > > it,

> > > > > > > the reason i quote this is that Sun is debilitated in

this

> > > > chart and

> > > > > > > makes one too too sharp and analytical i guess after

meeting

> > > > more

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > 3000 of the best jyotishis in this country he knows

what is

> > > > > > theoritical

> > > > > > > Crap that Gurus present in books to influence gullible

> > > > students &

> > > > > > > foreigners vs real predictive astrology. As they say the

> > people

> > > > who

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > predict will rarely get time to write a book as they

would

> > > > always be

> > > > > > > flocked by people. E.g 2006 i showed him a chart of a

> > internet

> > > > > > guru, in

> > > > > > > 2 secs this man said the internet gurus Guru does not

know

> > > > > > astrology i

> > > > > > > said why, he said only a fool will teach him astrology,

> > this man

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > one day deceive and since 2007 i have been observing

this

> > coming

> > > > > > true.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think this Sun in 3H is making him more practical and

in

> > his

> > > > > > > travellings he has met giants of astrology and thats the

> > reason

> > > > he

> > > > > > does

> > > > > > > not get impressed with Internet Astrologers Craps Theory

> > > > Assocation

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > he has met too many giants whom we can only dream of

> > meeting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Though i have gone more into answering ur post but i

felt

> > that

> > > > > > maybe i

> > > > > > > should share to the forum members a path of honesty

they can

> > > > > > choose ,

> > > > > > > thats the greatest thing i learnt from this man in 3 yrs

> > with

> > > > > > spending

> > > > > > > more than 1000 hrs minimum with him and let me tell you

> > > > Vijayadas i

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > never met a student of astrology as honest as him

towards

> > this

> > > > > > science,

> > > > > > > when i look at him and compare us of the global internet

> > flock i

> > > > > > feel we

> > > > > > > are just doing madiraka tamasha (jokers play).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have taken up a lot of everyones time i am off lists

now

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > best wishes

> > > > > > > Sunil

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil and Inderjit ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks for the quiz and explanations. I had partially

> > > > attempted 2

> > > > > > > > charts on the 6th of Jan and some how could not

complete

> > and

> > > > > > moreover

> > > > > > > > did not feel like sending those. I had saved them to

cross

> > > > check

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > results. It is incomplete and i didnt do any analysis

> > today.

> > > > i am

> > > > > > > > posting them as such -

> > > > > > > > -------------------------

> > > > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone

major

> > > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > > in life leading to vairagya.I do not know if this

person

> > has

> > > > any

> > > > > > kind

> > > > > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences).His

10th

> > > > lord is

> > > > > > > > debilitated ,but with his exaltation lord who is also

the

> > > > lord of

> > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > (apart from 5th).Thus inspite of financial losses and

> > changes,

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > person will have great interest in research of some

kind.

> > > > Neecha

> > > > > > > > Shukra can also give interest in antiques and things

> > which are

> > > > > > > > old.His 4th lord is debilitated and with saturn

showing

> > > > losses and

> > > > > > > > difficulties related to 4th house,

properties,settlement

> > away

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > home.However his gains and savings are going to the

4th

> > and

> > > > > > relating

> > > > > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The

> > person

> > > > > > possess

> > > > > > > > knowledge.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > His karakamsha(rashi) has saturn and mars and 5th from

> > there

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > mercury.Whether he is an owner

> > > > > > > > -----------------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2nd person is also very intelligent and will have many

> > > > possessions

> > > > > > > > including books on various subjects.He can also be a

> > writer

> > > > as 3rd

> > > > > > > > lord from karakamsha/moon and dispositor lagna is

> > exalted fr

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Please confirm regarding handicap etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

November 23, 2008

Dear Pradeep,

Good to hear some common-sense reminder!

Abuse of astrology is scary- how many innocent souls would be deceived by

disgusting expressions of omnipotence, of knowing " How many devils live on the

top of the needle " /but not how

to help one single life/

I feel like keeping my jy. interests secret, for that reason.

Regards,

A.

--- On Sat, 11/22/08, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep

Re: Books and Karakas/The Gujurat Astrologer

Saturday, November 22, 2008, 4:01 PM

Dear Sunil

Thanks for the mail and info.

There should be some extra logic above the said one. Moreover one

should not apply such logic blindly across charts. Multiple factors

may need to be considered regarding applicability.

How long did it take the atsrologer to predict this. How well in

adavnce did you give the chart. This will be helpful.

Regards

Pradeep

, " suniljohn_2002 "

<suniljohn_2002@ ...> wrote:

>

> Just spoke to him, Jupiter is in Cancer (4) and Mars is in Aries

(1),

> aspecting this Jupiter so he deducted 4-1=3 and the 12H where

Jupiter is

> sitting is the house of sleep hence he predicted 3 mattresses. I

find

> this logic tough and wonder if it is repeatable but thats the

problem

> with Ashok Upadhaya to remove knowledge out of him is too long a

process

> and his logic and what is ours is different. What i could help i did

> with some articles which Saptarishis Astrology has published but i

am

> working on to remove an article on secrets of each ascendant with

him.

> So far of what has been removed is mind blowing and it works on some

> charts that i have but the real test is does it work on 100 charts

of

> each ascendant.

>

> best wishes

> SJ

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@ > wrote:

> >

> > Thanks Sunil

> >

> > I will wait. It would be educative if we could get the logic

(number

> > 3).

> >

> > Regards

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Datta Guru

> > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > Friend called me saying that you had posted on the forum, as i

had

> > > mentioned that i would be off lists so did not bother to come

back.

> > >

> > > Short mail and u must excuse me remaining away from lists due to

> > work

> > > pressures.

> > >

> > > Re mattresses being number 3 Ashok bhai had given me the logic

then

> > but

> > > now its been a year so i dont remember it. For everything he

has a

> > > logic, i will write more later

> > >

> > > Pls excuse

> > >

> > > best wishes

> > >

> > > Sunil

> > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@ > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for sharing your experiences. I can also understand

your

> > > > frustrations. As you know Astrology is not about some magic

> > formulas.

> > > >

> > > > There are different stages of learning and proportional

> > > > degrees/levels of knowledge. Predictive abilities are

important as

> > > > you have rightly pointed out. Knowledge is never ending, thus

you

> > may

> > > > bear with experienced astrologers who were unable to find all

the

> > > > answers which you were looking for.

> > > >

> > > > The astrologers you have mentioned may be really gifted due to

> > their

> > > > sound command over FUNDAMENTAL principles.

> > > >

> > > > These astrologers would have also begun by developing and

> > > > understanding basics and observing consistent and repetitive

> > patterns

> > > > which were fine tuned later on.

> > > >

> > > > I agree with you that, it is not the number of tools or

> > sophisticated

> > > > techniques that matters. But command over fundamentals and

usage

> > of a

> > > > basic tool. Once you have this command you can use different

> > tools.

> > > > But in reality what is happening today is people wants to

paint

> > and

> > > > do the finishing touches even before the sculpture is ready!!.

> > > >

> > > > It was really great to note the three mattresses prediction. I

> > feel

> > > > there will definitely be some fundamentals behind these. I do

not

> > > > know. Broad guess can be in following lines -

> > > >

> > > > 12th house Shayya sthana has exalted Guru in Pushya

nakshathra.

> > 4th

> > > > Lord(homely environment lord) is shukra(Sukha/ Comfort) and is

with

> > > > 9th lord Mars(Harsh) placed in 9th. Mars is aspecting 12th.

Saturn

> > > > and Rahu in Lagna with 12th lord(Shayya) . Thus i guess Vinay

> > would be

> > > > having some difficulty with back needing special comfort ??.

Even

> > if

> > > > this is not the case, still Guru and his exaltaion in 12th

> > aspected

> > > > by 9th lord and association of Venus with 4th lord can provide

> > some

> > > > comfort. This is just my crude understanding and can be far

from

> > > > truth. One can predict a lot based on nature of graha,rashi

> > sheela,

> > > > (urdhva /adho), drishti, degrees, bhujya amshas, amsha

drekkana

> > > > sambandhas etc etc when they are applied as DEFINED by

mahamunis

> > and

> > > > seen as a single entity or system.

> > > >

> > > > Number of mattresses is amazing.But again it may be a general

> > point

> > > > qualifying comfort.

> > > >

> > > > I am sure that you are experienced enough to appreciate the

> > knowledge

> > > > and efforts of astrologers like Inderjit ji. He was able to

> > point

> > > > astrology etc. I understand that your expectations were not

met as

> > > > compared with the readings from giants.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks again for providing a learning opportunity

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > > > I happen to be online. Thanks for your kind mail but what

is the

> > > > use of

> > > > > me meeting these learned people many of them don't teach

their

> > > > secrets.

> > > > > See this chart of an Ex-SJC Mumbai member

> > > > >

> > > > > Natal Chart

> > > > >

> > > > > June 3, 1979

> > > > > Time: 12:53:00

> > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > Place: 73 E 05' 00 " , 19 N 10' 00 "

> > > > > Kalyan, India (Mumbai)

> > > > >

> > > > > When Ashok Upadahyaa one of the most brilliant astrologers i

> > have

> > > > ever

> > > > > met saw this chart he said to me while the chart holder

Vinay P

> > was

> > > > on

> > > > > other line, ask him if he (Vinay) sleeps on a bed that has 3

> > > > mattresses

> > > > > , Vinay said yes. Then he predicted that exactly one week

ago

> > Vinay

> > > > > would have bought 3 white handkerchiefs, Vinay said no,

after 2

> > mins

> > > > > Vinay said he bought 3 silk clothes small that he presented

to

> > > > > Mahalakshmi Maas at the famous Kolhapur Temple and those 3

silk

> > > > small

> > > > > clothes were white in color. Last year June July this

> > consultation

> > > > was

> > > > > done when for 1.5 years Vinay could not set up a business

> > inspite of

> > > > > going to all internet parampara astrologers. Ashok bhai told

> > him to

> > > > make

> > > > > 7 boats out of paper (small paper boats) and flow it in

water

> > at a

> > > > > particular time for 9 days each. Vinay did it and today he

is

> > > > revenue is

> > > > > anyways, he is doing too well.

> > > > >

> > > > > Though there is no use of this prediction (handkerchief etc)

> > but i

> > > > know

> > > > > why Ashok Bhai made that prediction he surely must be

checking

> > > > something

> > > > > for verification, but when i ask the Don Astrologer as he is

> > called

> > > > as

> > > > > to how he predicted he gives me logic which after 1 minute

> > nobody

> > > > in the

> > > > > world will understand so then u get what he is trying to

do -

> > not

> > > > teach.

> > > > >

> > > > > But then whatever he teaches for eg his grasp on Laghu

Parasari

> > is

> > > > > 'Stunning' and then u feel ohh what are we doing in

astrology,

> > what

> > > > have

> > > > > all these astrologers in the past done, no doubt the

Legendary

> > > > > Suryanarayain Vyas said Laghu Parasari is the Gita of

> > Astrology. It

> > > > is

> > > > > only when i see how Ashok Bhai has decoded Laghu Parasari i

> > realise

> > > > his

> > > > > utmost stunning mastery over it. How he uses only these 44

> > verses

> > > > for

> > > > > all his predictions is so breath taking & we run after 100

> > > > divisionals,

> > > > > 300 lagnas & 800 dasas and this man uses only 44 verses,

when i

> > > > > challenge him on a prediction that he strayed away from

Laghu

> > > > Parasari

> > > > > he gets upset with me and then blurts out the logic of it

and

> > co-

> > > > relates

> > > > > it to Laghu Parasari shloka. But then Ashoks Guru was the

Great

> > > > Blind

> > > > > Astrologer Shri Shri Swami of yesteryears hunted by film

stars

> > Ashok

> > > > > Kumar Nutan etc

> > > > >

> > > > > I must get out of the list now it only consumes a lot of

time &

> > > > nothing

> > > > > comes out of it, this is the problem with most forums.

> > > > >

> > > > > best wishes

> > > > > Sunil

> > > > >

> > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@ > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you very much for your valuable feed back and

detailed

> > mail.

> > > > > > It was a learning experience and a chance to correct our

> > > > > > mistakes.Inderjit ji is very experienced. You are

fortunate to

> > meet

> > > > > > many learned astrologers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will write more later.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > > > Dear Vijayadas,

> > > > > > > I was almost out of this thread butthe word handicap &

3H

> > that u

> > > > > > used

> > > > > > > brought me back.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone

> > major

> > > > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > > in life leading to vairagya.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > SJ: Bang On, i have not seen such a person living modern

> > life

> > > > but

> > > > > > least

> > > > > > > bothered about possessions, he is so so dispassionate

about

> > > > things,

> > > > > > he

> > > > > > > let go of his whole collection of books and i can go on

and

> > on,

> > > > if

> > > > > > > something does not happen he just moves out and i have

> > observed

> > > > him

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > so acutely since 3 yrs, u were bang on about this. I

have

> > not

> > > > met a

> > > > > > > Jyotishi like him who when predicts removes the feet

under

> > you

> > > > and

> > > > > > when

> > > > > > > u give feedback on the prediction a year later going

> > correct he

> > > > is

> > > > > > > genuinely least bothered about it nor does he remember

it.

> > This

> > > > is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > vairagya thing apart from the spiritual part which i

wont

> > > > mention

> > > > > > here

> > > > > > > to bore people.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2. I do not know if this person has any kind

> > > > > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > SJ: No physical handicap by Gods Grace and he is 63-64

now,

> > > > widely

> > > > > > > travelled, he has not written a book (i mention this

due to

> > 3H u

> > > > > > > mentioned and deb Sun there with A6 ), but he had made

many

> > > > writers,

> > > > > > > cajoled them from Santhanam to the internet parampara

> > writers.

> > > > > > Though i

> > > > > > > have begged him to write his experiences which would

> > benefit the

> > > > > > astro

> > > > > > > community but he refuses to write. Re his 3H having deb

> > Sun, his

> > > > > > > communication skills are very very Sharp and Rude to a

major

> > > > > > extent, he

> > > > > > > is well respected in the olden astros of the Delhi

circles,

> > > > when i

> > > > > > off

> > > > > > > hand once mentioned to K S Charak that i talk with him,

> > Charak

> > > > was

> > > > > > > astonished and then when i said its our morning ritual

to

> > talk

> > > > 1 hr

> > > > > > > daily since last 3 yrs he could not believe. the reason

is

> > when

> > > > > > this man

> > > > > > > walks into any astro circles people get afraid of him

as he

> > is

> > > > too

> > > > > > > honest and astrologers esp the bigwigs dont like an

honest

> > > > student

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > this shastra. I do not know which is the house of being

too

> > > > > > critical but

> > > > > > > he is too patient and observant, he will observe an

> > astrologers

> > > > > > > prediction for 20 yrs and then make judgement on him, he

> > sticks

> > > > to

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > 20 yrs for eg predictions made on the basis of Vishnu

Dasa

> > for

> > > > 10

> > > > > > years

> > > > > > > on 20 people in Delhi, all failed predictions and then

> > finally

> > > > he

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > choose to believe or not believe, it is this experience

> > that i

> > > > gain

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > him when he says well if u want to follow spend your

time on

> > > > Vishnu

> > > > > > Dasa

> > > > > > > but so far it has not worked on 20 people on predictions

> > made

> > > > by the

> > > > > > > creator of that dasa only, lets observe for 10 more

years.

> > His

> > > > > > > communication skills though would appear wanting but he

is

> > very

> > > > > > > affectionate in it too and revered due to his honesty, i

> > > > remember

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > olden days C S Patel would prepare one week in advance

for

> > the

> > > > > > visit of

> > > > > > > this gentleman. Patel would want everything perfect for

his

> > > > visit,

> > > > > > if he

> > > > > > > gave a verse to Patel to translate Patel would take 1

week

> > to

> > > > do so

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > i had to sit and type every day, get print out then

Patel

> > would

> > > > > > change

> > > > > > > the english etc and i would tell Patel saheb, he has

asked

> > only

> > > > for

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > meaning of the word Sambhanda, it is so simple, Patel

would

> > > > tell me

> > > > > > Beta

> > > > > > > (son) if he is giving me a shloka to decipher it means

> > indias

> > > > best

> > > > > > > sanskrit scholars have failed on it and if he gives me a

> > chart

> > > > to

> > > > > > look

> > > > > > > into then it means all astrologers in delhi have failed

on

> > it.

> > > > This

> > > > > > man

> > > > > > > only carries failed charts in his pocket and from that

he

> > learns

> > > > > > > astrology.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. On rest of the points u made, no major loss and he is

> > well

> > > > to do,

> > > > > > > very well to do and well connected, often dines with the

> > Prime

> > > > > > Ministers

> > > > > > > and Foreign Affairs ministers of other countries.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 4. However his gains and savings are going to the 4th

and

> > > > relating

> > > > > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The

> > person

> > > > > > possess

> > > > > > > > knowledge. Thus inspite of financial losses and

changes,

> > this

> > > > > > > > person will have great interest in research of some

kind.

> > > > > > > SJ: Yes very much into probing if one would call it

> > research, he

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > spend 6 months on only finding out the meaning of the

word

> > > > karaka, i

> > > > > > > thought it was a joke as to why heis doing so after 40-

50

> > yrs of

> > > > > > > astrology but when i hear him i realise none of us know

> > > > astrology,

> > > > > > once

> > > > > > > i took up discussion of kalachakra dasa with him he

> > immediately

> > > > put

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > to place that unless i know KCD well i should not speak

as

> > he

> > > > has

> > > > > > for 10

> > > > > > > yrs only studied kalachakra dasa and uses it. What

> > impresses me

> > > > > > does not

> > > > > > > impress him as he is too senior, recently a book by

Internet

> > > > > > Parampara

> > > > > > > came out he went and bought it, read it and next day he

> > threw

> > > > it

> > > > > > so i

> > > > > > > asked him to give me as i was too impressed with the

> > theories

> > > > in

> > > > > > it,

> > > > > > > the reason i quote this is that Sun is debilitated in

this

> > > > chart and

> > > > > > > makes one too too sharp and analytical i guess after

meeting

> > > > more

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > 3000 of the best jyotishis in this country he knows

what is

> > > > > > theoritical

> > > > > > > Crap that Gurus present in books to influence gullible

> > > > students &

> > > > > > > foreigners vs real predictive astrology. As they say the

> > people

> > > > who

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > predict will rarely get time to write a book as they

would

> > > > always be

> > > > > > > flocked by people. E.g 2006 i showed him a chart of a

> > internet

> > > > > > guru, in

> > > > > > > 2 secs this man said the internet gurus Guru does not

know

> > > > > > astrology i

> > > > > > > said why, he said only a fool will teach him astrology,

> > this man

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > one day deceive and since 2007 i have been observing

this

> > coming

> > > > > > true.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think this Sun in 3H is making him more practical and

in

> > his

> > > > > > > travellings he has met giants of astrology and thats the

> > reason

> > > > he

> > > > > > does

> > > > > > > not get impressed with Internet Astrologers Craps Theory

> > > > Assocation

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > he has met too many giants whom we can only dream of

> > meeting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Though i have gone more into answering ur post but i

felt

> > that

> > > > > > maybe i

> > > > > > > should share to the forum members a path of honesty

they can

> > > > > > choose ,

> > > > > > > thats the greatest thing i learnt from this man in 3 yrs

> > with

> > > > > > spending

> > > > > > > more than 1000 hrs minimum with him and let me tell you

> > > > Vijayadas i

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > never met a student of astrology as honest as him

towards

> > this

> > > > > > science,

> > > > > > > when i look at him and compare us of the global internet

> > flock i

> > > > > > feel we

> > > > > > > are just doing madiraka tamasha (jokers play).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have taken up a lot of everyones time i am off lists

now

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > best wishes

> > > > > > > Sunil

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil and Inderjit ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks for the quiz and explanations. I had partially

> > > > attempted 2

> > > > > > > > charts on the 6th of Jan and some how could not

complete

> > and

> > > > > > moreover

> > > > > > > > did not feel like sending those. I had saved them to

cross

> > > > check

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > results. It is incomplete and i didnt do any analysis

> > today.

> > > > i am

> > > > > > > > posting them as such -

> > > > > > > > ------------ --------- ----

> > > > > > > > Dear Shri Sunil

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > First chart belongs to a person who has under gone

major

> > > > > > experiences

> > > > > > > > in life leading to vairagya.I do not know if this

person

> > has

> > > > any

> > > > > > kind

> > > > > > > > of handicap.It is possible(3rd house influences). His

10th

> > > > lord is

> > > > > > > > debilitated ,but with his exaltation lord who is also

the

> > > > lord of

> > > > > > 8th

> > > > > > > > (apart from 5th).Thus inspite of financial losses and

> > changes,

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > person will have great interest in research of some

kind.

> > > > Neecha

> > > > > > > > Shukra can also give interest in antiques and things

> > which are

> > > > > > > > old.His 4th lord is debilitated and with saturn

showing

> > > > losses and

> > > > > > > > difficulties related to 4th house,

properties,settleme nt

> > away

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > home.However his gains and savings are going to the

4th

> > and

> > > > > > relating

> > > > > > > > to mercury, karaka for learning and intelligence. The

> > person

> > > > > > possess

> > > > > > > > knowledge.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > His karakamsha(rashi) has saturn and mars and 5th from

> > there

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > mercury.Whether he is an owner

> > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2nd person is also very intelligent and will have many

> > > > possessions

> > > > > > > > including books on various subjects.He can also be a

> > writer

> > > > as 3rd

> > > > > > > > lord from karakamsha/moon and dispositor lagna is

> > exalted fr

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Please confirm regarding handicap etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

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