Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent Interpretation - Some concerns

[Guest guest]

Dear Sarvashree Narasimha Rao and Sanjay Prabhakaran

 

If i am allowed to intervene -

 

1) ''Evam'' also has a common meaning and usage as ''and''.

2) Kechith - as i have mentioned before is traditionally referred for

expressing different opinion.

 

Therefore it can also mean , As per the opinion of some(Taking Kechit

as a common factor) ''when 2 grahas are having equal degrees -

(''tada''- ''then'') use 8 karakas and as per others (''Saptaiva

KarakanEVAM '' - ''Seven Karakas AND''), (''Ashtau''- ''eight

karakas'') can be used. Kindly correct me if it cannot be interpreted

like this.

 

 

Couple of other concerns :-

 

1) In my view ''Matrikarakameva ANYE Vadanti Sutakarakam'' is -

Matrikaraka is Sutakaraka as per some others.Or the Sutakaraka that

is ''seperately -Anye'' mentioned is same as Matrikaraka.

 

2)When two grahas are in equal bhagas, the AGRAkaraka ie the Karaka

towards the end or edge (Agra has a meaning as edge or tip)

disappears. Why? If there are 7 planets and 7 Karakas and if two

planets qualify for the same karaka , then there is no planet to take

the 7th karaka. All the seven will be covered with 6 karakas(provided

only 2 are in tie). Thus the seventh karaka (the karaka on the edge)

is left with no one to take up and can be studied using sthira karaka.

 

I find it VERY VERY difficult to digest on why the ''Top or First ''

Karaka should disappear, if two planets achive the same degree. What

does the karaka has to do here.It is only your personal

interpretation. However the shortage of grahas can make the last

karaka ''un-occuppied and disappear''. It can also be for this reason

that some people talk about rahu in both the cases!

 

Point: Prashara did not say that seven karakas is not applicable when

2 grahas are in tie.It is again your personal

interpretation.According to ''Kechit'' Parashara can very well talk

about two opinions.

 

Varahamihira did speak about diffrent schools in Varaha Hora. Can

Parashara too talk about such is the point that you are raising. I

cannot comment.

 

I can be wrong. But in my view this Agrakaraka interpretation from

you is very hard to digest. You are using some political analogies

and in a away is bringing new theories is my view.Correct me if i am

wrong.

 

Ofcourse you have made some strong views against mundane/natal views

of S.Rath. I feel shri Rath should ideally quote Pramanas for

this.His supporters should kindly understand that shri Narasimha Rao

requesting for a pramana is in order.They should request S.Rath

instead of arguing with Sri Rao.

 

Pradeep

 

 

 

, " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr

wrote:

>

> Dear Sanjay,

>

> Hope you are doing well. Happy Deepavali! It is always nice to hear

from you.

>

> Maharshi Parasara said " We use 7 or 8 planets. When X happens, THEN

we use 8 planets. THUS, we use 7 in some and 8 in some " .

>

> As you said, it is obvious when X happens that 8 are to be used.

However, it is also fair to conclude that 7 are used when X does not

happen.

>

> This would be a fair conclusion normally. Moreover, the use of the

word " evam " seals it here.

>

> The word " evam " means " thus " or " in this manner " or " like this " . By

using this word, he is indicating that what he has said before is

sufficient to see when to use 7 and when to use 8. It implies that

there is no other guideline and *this is how* we figure out. If there

is some additional guideline to choose between 7 vs 8, the

word " evam " would not have been used. Thus, one can reject the notion

that there are more unspoken crtiteria.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

>

> -

> Sanjay Prabhakaran

> sjc-guru

> Cc: sohamsa ; vedic astrology ;

; sjcBoston

> Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:20 AM

> Re: [sjc-guru] Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent

Interpretation

>

>

> || Om Gurave Namah ||

>

> Dear Narasimhaji,

>

> I had a thought about the first few stanzas,

>

>

> Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas

> athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn.h |

>

> saptaravyAdishanyantAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn.h || 1||

>

> aMshaiH samaugnahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan.h chintayet.h tadA |

>

> saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2||

>

>

>

> This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking about

seven planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu,

> acting as the significators of self etc. If two planets are equal

by degrees, then planets upto Rahu should be thought of.

> Thus, only seven significators [in some] and eight in some are

considered. "

>

>

>

>

> This may also mean that

>

> USE Rahu IF there is two planets in same degrees, " aMshaiH

samaugnahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan.h chintayet.h tadA | "

>

> But this may not mean that NOT TO USE EIGHT Kaarakas when there

is no grahas in same Degress

>

>

> Let me put it this way

>

> SET 1 : USE Rahu when grahas in same degress 8 Kaaraka systems.

>

> THE REMAINING SET : YOU can still use both 7 and 8 kaarakas.

>

> I hope I am bringing out my thoughts accurately. The stanza

never says " FOR THE REMAINING " USE ONLY 7 KAARAKAS.

>

>

> Warm Regards

> Sanjay P

>

>

>

> 2008/10/23 Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no

pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest

attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach

Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.

>

> In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara

karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara

karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some

charts and clearly described when to use what.

>

> I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by

reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and

then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in

it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If

not, just leave it.

>

> I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my

website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering

various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this

article also defines and uses a dasa called " Karaka dasa " that was

taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara

karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:

>

> http://VedicAstrologer.org/articles/c_karaka.pdf

>

> If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward

this link to those who may be interested.

>

> Krishnaarpanamastu,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Pradeep,

 

> 1) ''Evam'' also has a common meaning and usage as ''and''.

 

No, evam in Sanskrit means " in this manner " or " thus " as I said. It does not

have a " common meaning and usage " as " and " as you said. I wonder if you are

confusing with some other language.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

, " vijayadas_pradeep " <vijayadas_pradeep

wrote:

>

> Dear Sarvashree Narasimha Rao and Sanjay Prabhakaran

>

> If i am allowed to intervene -

>

> 1) ''Evam'' also has a common meaning and usage as ''and''.

> 2) Kechith - as i have mentioned before is traditionally referred for

> expressing different opinion.

>

> Therefore it can also mean , As per the opinion of some(Taking Kechit

> as a common factor) ''when 2 grahas are having equal degrees -

> (''tada''- ''then'') use 8 karakas and as per others (''Saptaiva

> KarakanEVAM '' - ''Seven Karakas AND''), (''Ashtau''- ''eight

> karakas'') can be used. Kindly correct me if it cannot be interpreted

> like this.

>

> Couple of other concerns :-

>

> 1) In my view ''Matrikarakameva ANYE Vadanti Sutakarakam'' is -

> Matrikaraka is Sutakaraka as per some others.Or the Sutakaraka that

> is ''seperately -Anye'' mentioned is same as Matrikaraka.

>

> 2)When two grahas are in equal bhagas, the AGRAkaraka ie the Karaka

> towards the end or edge (Agra has a meaning as edge or tip)

> disappears. Why? If there are 7 planets and 7 Karakas and if two

> planets qualify for the same karaka , then there is no planet to take

> the 7th karaka. All the seven will be covered with 6 karakas(provided

> only 2 are in tie). Thus the seventh karaka (the karaka on the edge)

> is left with no one to take up and can be studied using sthira karaka.

>

> I find it VERY VERY difficult to digest on why the ''Top or First ''

> Karaka should disappear, if two planets achive the same degree. What

> does the karaka has to do here.It is only your personal

> interpretation. However the shortage of grahas can make the last

> karaka ''un-occuppied and disappear''. It can also be for this reason

> that some people talk about rahu in both the cases!

>

> Point: Prashara did not say that seven karakas is not applicable when

> 2 grahas are in tie.It is again your personal

> interpretation.According to ''Kechit'' Parashara can very well talk

> about two opinions.

>

> Varahamihira did speak about diffrent schools in Varaha Hora. Can

> Parashara too talk about such is the point that you are raising. I

> cannot comment.

>

> I can be wrong. But in my view this Agrakaraka interpretation from

> you is very hard to digest. You are using some political analogies

> and in a away is bringing new theories is my view.Correct me if i am

> wrong.

>

> Ofcourse you have made some strong views against mundane/natal views

> of S.Rath. I feel shri Rath should ideally quote Pramanas for

> this.His supporters should kindly understand that shri Narasimha Rao

> requesting for a pramana is in order.They should request S.Rath

> instead of arguing with Sri Rao.

>

> Pradeep

>

> , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sanjay,

> >

> > Hope you are doing well. Happy Deepavali! It is always nice to hear

> from you.

> >

> > Maharshi Parasara said " We use 7 or 8 planets. When X happens, THEN

> we use 8 planets. THUS, we use 7 in some and 8 in some " .

> >

> > As you said, it is obvious when X happens that 8 are to be used.

> However, it is also fair to conclude that 7 are used when X does not

> happen.

> >

> > This would be a fair conclusion normally. Moreover, the use of the

> word " evam " seals it here.

> >

> > The word " evam " means " thus " or " in this manner " or " like this " . By

> using this word, he is indicating that what he has said before is

> sufficient to see when to use 7 and when to use 8. It implies that

> there is no other guideline and *this is how* we figure out. If there

> is some additional guideline to choose between 7 vs 8, the

> word " evam " would not have been used. Thus, one can reject the notion

> that there are more unspoken crtiteria.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> >

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > Spirituality:

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> >

> >

> > -

> > Sanjay Prabhakaran

> > sjc-guru

> > Cc: sohamsa ; vedic astrology ;

> ; sjcBoston

> > Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:20 AM

> > Re: [sjc-guru] Parasara on Chara Karakas: An Independent

> Interpretation

> >

> >

> > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> >

> > Dear Narasimhaji,

> >

> > I had a thought about the first few stanzas,

> >

> >

> > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas

> > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn.h |

> >

> > saptaravyAdishanyantAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn.h || 1||

> >

> > aMshaiH samaugnahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan.h chintayet.h tadA |

> >

> > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2||

> >

> >

> >

> > This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking about

> seven planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu,

> > acting as the significators of self etc. If two planets are equal

> by degrees, then planets upto Rahu should be thought of.

> > Thus, only seven significators [in some] and eight in some are

> considered. "

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > This may also mean that

> >

> > USE Rahu IF there is two planets in same degrees, " aMshaiH

> samaugnahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan.h chintayet.h tadA | "

> >

> > But this may not mean that NOT TO USE EIGHT Kaarakas when there

> is no grahas in same Degress

> >

> >

> > Let me put it this way

> >

> > SET 1 : USE Rahu when grahas in same degress 8 Kaaraka systems.

> >

> > THE REMAINING SET : YOU can still use both 7 and 8 kaarakas.

> >

> > I hope I am bringing out my thoughts accurately. The stanza

> never says " FOR THE REMAINING " USE ONLY 7 KAARAKAS.

> >

> >

> > Warm Regards

> > Sanjay P

> >

> >

> >

> > 2008/10/23 Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> >

> > Namaste friends,

> >

> > Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no

> pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest

> attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and approach

> Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.

> >

> > In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8 chara

> karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara

> karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some

> charts and clearly described when to use what.

> >

> > I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by

> reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind and

> then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth in

> it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge. If

> not, just leave it.

> >

> > I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my

> website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering

> various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this

> article also defines and uses a dasa called " Karaka dasa " that was

> taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara

> karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:

> >

> > http://VedicAstrologer.org/articles/c_karaka.pdf

> >

> > If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward

> this link to those who may be interested.

> >

> > Krishnaarpanamastu,

> > Narasimha

> > -------------------------

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > Spirituality:

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > -------------------------

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Narasimha Ji

 

Thank you for reply and help.

 

It was familiar to me due to some reason that evam has a meaning

as ''and'' as well.I am not sure about other Indian langauages apart

from Hindi where evam definitely has a meaning as and. My beleif is

those languages having some connection with sanskrit might be having

such a meaning (Bengali ,Kannada etc).

 

I will read the Sanskrit texts which i am having and find if any such

classical usages are there and will comeback.I wanted to verify them

before raising further arguments and hence the delay in reply.

 

However please confirm what is the meaning of ''evam'' in the below

shloka.

 

''Mesharavi samkramanam - Sarvajit nama samvatsare, Utharayane,

Vasantha rithou, Mesha mase, Krishna pakshe, Dwadasyam punyathithou,

Sthiravasara yukthayaam, Shathabhishak nakshathra yukthayaam, subha

yoga subha karana EVAM guna viseshana vishishtayam asyam

varthamanayam dwadasyam punythithou Mesha-ravi samkramana punyakale

mesha-ravi samkramana sradhdham thila tharpana roopena adhya

karishye…''.

 

 

As you have rightly mentioned, going by online dictionaries and

declaring things with authenticity is not proper. For this reason i

am submitting my sanskrit understandings as a doubt.Kindly confirm.

 

Thanks a lot

Pradeep

 

 

, " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr

wrote:

>

> Namaste Sri Pradeep,

>

> > 1) ''Evam'' also has a common meaning and usage as ''and''.

>

> No, evam in Sanskrit means " in this manner " or " thus " as I said. It

does not have a " common meaning and usage " as " and " as you said. I

wonder if you are confusing with some other language.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sarvashree Narasimha Rao and Sanjay Prabhakaran

> >

> > If i am allowed to intervene -

> >

> > 1) ''Evam'' also has a common meaning and usage as ''and''.

> > 2) Kechith - as i have mentioned before is traditionally referred

for

> > expressing different opinion.

> >

> > Therefore it can also mean , As per the opinion of some(Taking

Kechit

> > as a common factor) ''when 2 grahas are having equal degrees -

> > (''tada''- ''then'') use 8 karakas and as per others (''Saptaiva

> > KarakanEVAM '' - ''Seven Karakas AND''), (''Ashtau''- ''eight

> > karakas'') can be used. Kindly correct me if it cannot be

interpreted

> > like this.

> >

> > Couple of other concerns :-

> >

> > 1) In my view ''Matrikarakameva ANYE Vadanti Sutakarakam'' is -

> > Matrikaraka is Sutakaraka as per some others.Or the Sutakaraka

that

> > is ''seperately -Anye'' mentioned is same as Matrikaraka.

> >

> > 2)When two grahas are in equal bhagas, the AGRAkaraka ie the

Karaka

> > towards the end or edge (Agra has a meaning as edge or tip)

> > disappears. Why? If there are 7 planets and 7 Karakas and if two

> > planets qualify for the same karaka , then there is no planet to

take

> > the 7th karaka. All the seven will be covered with 6 karakas

(provided

> > only 2 are in tie). Thus the seventh karaka (the karaka on the

edge)

> > is left with no one to take up and can be studied using sthira

karaka.

> >

> > I find it VERY VERY difficult to digest on why the ''Top or

First ''

> > Karaka should disappear, if two planets achive the same degree.

What

> > does the karaka has to do here.It is only your personal

> > interpretation. However the shortage of grahas can make the last

> > karaka ''un-occuppied and disappear''. It can also be for this

reason

> > that some people talk about rahu in both the cases!

> >

> > Point: Prashara did not say that seven karakas is not applicable

when

> > 2 grahas are in tie.It is again your personal

> > interpretation.According to ''Kechit'' Parashara can very well

talk

> > about two opinions.

> >

> > Varahamihira did speak about diffrent schools in Varaha Hora. Can

> > Parashara too talk about such is the point that you are raising.

I

> > cannot comment.

> >

> > I can be wrong. But in my view this Agrakaraka interpretation

from

> > you is very hard to digest. You are using some political

analogies

> > and in a away is bringing new theories is my view.Correct me if i

am

> > wrong.

> >

> > Ofcourse you have made some strong views against mundane/natal

views

> > of S.Rath. I feel shri Rath should ideally quote Pramanas for

> > this.His supporters should kindly understand that shri Narasimha

Rao

> > requesting for a pramana is in order.They should request S.Rath

> > instead of arguing with Sri Rao.

> >

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

<pvr@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sanjay,

> > >

> > > Hope you are doing well. Happy Deepavali! It is always nice to

hear

> > from you.

> > >

> > > Maharshi Parasara said " We use 7 or 8 planets. When X happens,

THEN

> > we use 8 planets. THUS, we use 7 in some and 8 in some " .

> > >

> > > As you said, it is obvious when X happens that 8 are to be

used.

> > However, it is also fair to conclude that 7 are used when X does

not

> > happen.

> > >

> > > This would be a fair conclusion normally. Moreover, the use of

the

> > word " evam " seals it here.

> > >

> > > The word " evam " means " thus " or " in this manner " or " like

this " . By

> > using this word, he is indicating that what he has said before is

> > sufficient to see when to use 7 and when to use 8. It implies

that

> > there is no other guideline and *this is how* we figure out. If

there

> > is some additional guideline to choose between 7 vs 8, the

> > word " evam " would not have been used. Thus, one can reject the

notion

> > that there are more unspoken crtiteria.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------------

--

> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > -------------------------------

--

> > >

> > > -

> > > Sanjay Prabhakaran

> > > sjc-guru

> > > Cc: sohamsa ; vedic-

astrology ;

> > ; sjcBoston

> > > Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:20 AM

> > > Re: [sjc-guru] Parasara on Chara Karakas: An

Independent

> > Interpretation

> > >

> > >

> > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > >

> > > Dear Narasimhaji,

> > >

> > > I had a thought about the first few stanzas,

> > >

> > >

> > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas

> > > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn.h |

> > >

> > > saptaravyAdishanyantAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn.h ||

1||

> > >

> > > aMshaiH samaugnahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan.h chintayet.h tadA |

> > >

> > > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2||

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking about

> > seven planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu,

> > > acting as the significators of self etc. If two planets are

equal

> > by degrees, then planets upto Rahu should be thought of.

> > > Thus, only seven significators [in some] and eight in some

are

> > considered. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This may also mean that

> > >

> > > USE Rahu IF there is two planets in same degrees, " aMshaiH

> > samaugnahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan.h chintayet.h tadA | "

> > >

> > > But this may not mean that NOT TO USE EIGHT Kaarakas when

there

> > is no grahas in same Degress

> > >

> > >

> > > Let me put it this way

> > >

> > > SET 1 : USE Rahu when grahas in same degress 8 Kaaraka

systems.

> > >

> > > THE REMAINING SET : YOU can still use both 7 and 8 kaarakas.

> > >

> > > I hope I am bringing out my thoughts accurately. The stanza

> > never says " FOR THE REMAINING " USE ONLY 7 KAARAKAS.

> > >

> > >

> > > Warm Regards

> > > Sanjay P

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 2008/10/23 Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > >

> > > Namaste friends,

> > >

> > > Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no

> > pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest

> > attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and

approach

> > Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.

> > >

> > > In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8

chara

> > karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara

> > karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some

> > charts and clearly described when to use what.

> > >

> > > I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by

> > reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind

and

> > then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth

in

> > it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge.

If

> > not, just leave it.

> > >

> > > I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my

> > website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering

> > various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this

> > article also defines and uses a dasa called " Karaka dasa " that

was

> > taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara

> > karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:

> > >

> > > http://VedicAstrologer.org/articles/c_karaka.pdf

> > >

> > > If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward

> > this link to those who may be interested.

> > >

> > > Krishnaarpanamastu,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------

> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself:

> > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:

http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > -------------------------

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Pradeep,

 

Some Sanskrit words are used in a totally different meaning in modern Indian

languages.

 

In the pooja sankalpa text you gave also, " evam " means " in this manner " .

 

The online dictionaries are not always perfect, but the meanings they give for

evam are correct.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

, " vijayadas_pradeep " <vijayadas_pradeep

wrote:

>

> Namaste Narasimha Ji

>

> Thank you for reply and help.

>

> It was familiar to me due to some reason that evam has a meaning

> as ''and'' as well.I am not sure about other Indian langauages apart

> from Hindi where evam definitely has a meaning as and. My beleif is

> those languages having some connection with sanskrit might be having

> such a meaning (Bengali ,Kannada etc).

>

> I will read the Sanskrit texts which i am having and find if any such

> classical usages are there and will comeback.I wanted to verify them

> before raising further arguments and hence the delay in reply.

>

> However please confirm what is the meaning of ''evam'' in the below

> shloka.

>

> ''Mesharavi samkramanam - Sarvajit nama samvatsare, Utharayane,

> Vasantha rithou, Mesha mase, Krishna pakshe, Dwadasyam punyathithou,

> Sthiravasara yukthayaam, Shathabhishak nakshathra yukthayaam, subha

> yoga subha karana EVAM guna viseshana vishishtayam asyam

> varthamanayam dwadasyam punythithou Mesha-ravi samkramana punyakale

> mesha-ravi samkramana sradhdham thila tharpana roopena adhya

> karishye.''.

>

>

> As you have rightly mentioned, going by online dictionaries and

> declaring things with authenticity is not proper. For this reason i

> am submitting my sanskrit understandings as a doubt.Kindly confirm.

>

> Thanks a lot

> Pradeep

>

>

> , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sri Pradeep,

> >

> > > 1) ''Evam'' also has a common meaning and usage as ''and''.

> >

> > No, evam in Sanskrit means " in this manner " or " thus " as I said. It

> does not have a " common meaning and usage " as " and " as you said. I

> wonder if you are confusing with some other language.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> >

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > Spirituality:

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> >

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sarvashree Narasimha Rao and Sanjay Prabhakaran

> > >

> > > If i am allowed to intervene -

> > >

> > > 1) ''Evam'' also has a common meaning and usage as ''and''.

> > > 2) Kechith - as i have mentioned before is traditionally referred

> for

> > > expressing different opinion.

> > >

> > > Therefore it can also mean , As per the opinion of some(Taking

> Kechit

> > > as a common factor) ''when 2 grahas are having equal degrees -

> > > (''tada''- ''then'') use 8 karakas and as per others (''Saptaiva

> > > KarakanEVAM '' - ''Seven Karakas AND''), (''Ashtau''- ''eight

> > > karakas'') can be used. Kindly correct me if it cannot be

> interpreted

> > > like this.

> > >

> > > Couple of other concerns :-

> > >

> > > 1) In my view ''Matrikarakameva ANYE Vadanti Sutakarakam'' is -

> > > Matrikaraka is Sutakaraka as per some others.Or the Sutakaraka

> that

> > > is ''seperately -Anye'' mentioned is same as Matrikaraka.

> > >

> > > 2)When two grahas are in equal bhagas, the AGRAkaraka ie the

> Karaka

> > > towards the end or edge (Agra has a meaning as edge or tip)

> > > disappears. Why? If there are 7 planets and 7 Karakas and if two

> > > planets qualify for the same karaka , then there is no planet to

> take

> > > the 7th karaka. All the seven will be covered with 6 karakas

> (provided

> > > only 2 are in tie). Thus the seventh karaka (the karaka on the

> edge)

> > > is left with no one to take up and can be studied using sthira

> karaka.

> > >

> > > I find it VERY VERY difficult to digest on why the ''Top or

> First ''

> > > Karaka should disappear, if two planets achive the same degree.

> What

> > > does the karaka has to do here.It is only your personal

> > > interpretation. However the shortage of grahas can make the last

> > > karaka ''un-occuppied and disappear''. It can also be for this

> reason

> > > that some people talk about rahu in both the cases!

> > >

> > > Point: Prashara did not say that seven karakas is not applicable

> when

> > > 2 grahas are in tie.It is again your personal

> > > interpretation.According to ''Kechit'' Parashara can very well

> talk

> > > about two opinions.

> > >

> > > Varahamihira did speak about diffrent schools in Varaha Hora. Can

> > > Parashara too talk about such is the point that you are raising.

> I

> > > cannot comment.

> > >

> > > I can be wrong. But in my view this Agrakaraka interpretation

> from

> > > you is very hard to digest. You are using some political

> analogies

> > > and in a away is bringing new theories is my view.Correct me if i

> am

> > > wrong.

> > >

> > > Ofcourse you have made some strong views against mundane/natal

> views

> > > of S.Rath. I feel shri Rath should ideally quote Pramanas for

> > > this.His supporters should kindly understand that shri Narasimha

> Rao

> > > requesting for a pramana is in order.They should request S.Rath

> > > instead of arguing with Sri Rao.

> > >

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

> <pvr@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sanjay,

> > > >

> > > > Hope you are doing well. Happy Deepavali! It is always nice to

> hear

> > > from you.

> > > >

> > > > Maharshi Parasara said " We use 7 or 8 planets. When X happens,

> THEN

> > > we use 8 planets. THUS, we use 7 in some and 8 in some " .

> > > >

> > > > As you said, it is obvious when X happens that 8 are to be

> used.

> > > However, it is also fair to conclude that 7 are used when X does

> not

> > > happen.

> > > >

> > > > This would be a fair conclusion normally. Moreover, the use of

> the

> > > word " evam " seals it here.

> > > >

> > > > The word " evam " means " thus " or " in this manner " or " like

> this " . By

> > > using this word, he is indicating that what he has said before is

> > > sufficient to see when to use 7 and when to use 8. It implies

> that

> > > there is no other guideline and *this is how* we figure out. If

> there

> > > is some additional guideline to choose between 7 vs 8, the

> > > word " evam " would not have been used. Thus, one can reject the

> notion

> > > that there are more unspoken crtiteria.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > > -------------------------------

> --

> > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > > > Spirituality:

> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > -------------------------------

> --

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Sanjay Prabhakaran

> > > > sjc-guru

> > > > Cc: sohamsa ; vedic-

> astrology ;

> > > ; sjcBoston

> > > > Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:20 AM

> > > > Re: [sjc-guru] Parasara on Chara Karakas: An

> Independent

> > > Interpretation

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > >

> > > > Dear Narasimhaji,

> > > >

> > > > I had a thought about the first few stanzas,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas

> > > > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn.h |

> > > >

> > > > saptaravyAdishanyantAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn.h ||

> 1||

> > > >

> > > > aMshaiH samaugnahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan.h chintayet.h tadA |

> > > >

> > > > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2||

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking about

> > > seven planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu,

> > > > acting as the significators of self etc. If two planets are

> equal

> > > by degrees, then planets upto Rahu should be thought of.

> > > > Thus, only seven significators [in some] and eight in some

> are

> > > considered. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This may also mean that

> > > >

> > > > USE Rahu IF there is two planets in same degrees, " aMshaiH

> > > samaugnahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan.h chintayet.h tadA | "

> > > >

> > > > But this may not mean that NOT TO USE EIGHT Kaarakas when

> there

> > > is no grahas in same Degress

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Let me put it this way

> > > >

> > > > SET 1 : USE Rahu when grahas in same degress 8 Kaaraka

> systems.

> > > >

> > > > THE REMAINING SET : YOU can still use both 7 and 8 kaarakas.

> > > >

> > > > I hope I am bringing out my thoughts accurately. The stanza

> > > never says " FOR THE REMAINING " USE ONLY 7 KAARAKAS.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Warm Regards

> > > > Sanjay P

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 2008/10/23 Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > >

> > > > Namaste friends,

> > > >

> > > > Here is the promised article on chara karakas. I have no

> > > pretensions that I got it correct. But this is based on an honest

> > > attempt to purge all preconceived notions from the mind and

> approach

> > > Parasara's verses with a fresh and unbiased mind.

> > > >

> > > > In my view, neither the 7 chara karaka school nor the 8

> chara

> > > karaka school got Parasara correct. Parasara taught that 7 chara

> > > karakas should be used in some charts and 8 chara karakas in some

> > > charts and clearly described when to use what.

> > > >

> > > > I am trying to share whatever I was able to understand by

> > > reading Parasara's exposition on chara karakas with an open mind

> and

> > > then experimenting. If you think my interpretation has some worth

> in

> > > it, please use it, experiment, benefit and spread the knowledge.

> If

> > > not, just leave it.

> > > >

> > > > I have uploaded a detailed article on chara karakas on my

> > > website. It describes the calculation with 16 examples, covering

> > > various cases. Apart from defining chara karaka calculation, this

> > > article also defines and uses a dasa called " Karaka dasa " that

> was

> > > taught by Parasara for the purpose of timing events using chara

> > > karakas. Please download the following PDF file if interested:

> > > >

> > > > http://VedicAstrologer.org/articles/c_karaka.pdf

> > > >

> > > > If you find the article useful, please feel free to forward

> > > this link to those who may be interested.

> > > >

> > > > Krishnaarpanamastu,

> > > > Narasimha