Rasi chart and degrees of freedom (Predicting divinity...)

[Guest guest]

Namaste Narasimha ji

 

Thank you for taking time to reply.As we have discussed these issues

ind detail in the past i have nothing special to add.

 

As you know when we start learning driving, the width of the roads

are never sufficient.However as we progress degree of freedom and

parking abilities will develop.So is astrology.When we bring in 10's

of charts and parameters, sometimes i fear that the ''degree of

freedom'' crosses limits.If we are patient then clouds can clear off

is my personal opinion.

 

Vargas are the original teaching of sages.New theories aree

interpretations of contemporary astrologers.

 

If you beleive in science then you should also respect the rules set

by Mahamunis.Don't you think so?If Strength of drishti is based on

angular distance as per Parashara,what is the basis for drishti?.

 

Rules defined for Sthoola should never be extended to sookshma.We

cannot use different yard sticks.If we talk about science then we

have to stick to rules.

 

I will present my views in an organized fashion and the delay is only

due to time constraint.I am not forcing my views on anybody.Those who

feel merit may accept.

 

If you think Mahamunis can be interpreted in the way you are

doing,you are free to do so.If you ask my personal view,i would

prefer not to bring in my interpretations.

 

My point is degree of freedom and clear sky can also be achieved if

we apply the principles as advised by them.But i agree that the

process takes time.A ripe mango fruit and a mango beaten to become

fruit will certainly have a difference.

 

It would be nice if predictions could be as objective and simple as

(2x3) + (4x3).The ganita part is objective, not the predictive

part.Intution will come into play when we stick to fundamental

principles.

 

Thanks again

Pradeep

 

, " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr

wrote:

>

> Namaste Pradeep ji,

>

> > Our asumption that rashi and navamsha are simple and our haste

and

> > eagerness in answering all questions,will result in failure to

see

> > what is to be seen.Treading slowly and persevering to understand

the

> > depth of rashi chakra can reveal all in the due course.

>

> The issue is not that rasi and navamsa chart are " simple " or one

needs to " tread slowly " . The issue is whether there is enough depth

and degrees of freedom in rasi and navamsa charts. The issue is that

lagna and all planets remain in the same positions in rasi and

navamsa charts for 14 minutes on average. We have cases of twins and

triplets born minutes apart, who share the same rasi and navamsa

charts but have totally different personalities and lives. Even if

you learn the interpretation of rasi and navamsa charts for 100 years

or even 100 lives, the fact remains that they do not have enough

degrees of freedom.

>

> In fact, many old astrologers use only rasi chart, which remains

constant for 2 hours. From the point of view of degrees of freedom,

this is plain silly.

>

> One can see whatever one wants to see in a cloud. One may see a

house in a cloud on one occasion and may see a tree in the very same

cloud on another occasion. But that is an art then and not a science.

If an astrologer with good intuition has the ability to see two or

three totally different fortunes from the same rasi chart for twins

or triplets, I respect the ability but it is an art and not a science.

>

> If astrology aspires to be a science, the only way is to understand

the teachings of Parasara correctly and decipher the divisional

charts etc.

>

> Divisional charts are not some " new thing " . They were taught by

Parasara about 5,000 years ago and have been used by several

traditions even during the last few centuries when rasi chart based

predictions became common in the mainstream.

>

> Anyway, if you believe that rasi chart is enough for everything,

please feel free to use that approach and good luck!

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do Ganapathi Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Narasimha ji

> >

> > I am pasting again what Inderjit has mentioned -

> > > > Before proceeding to the Divisions had you done justice with

> > >>Rashi?

> > The reason for the repetition is mentioned below.

> >

> > In another mail you had mentioned that elder astrologers where

able

> > to predict with the help of rashi and navamsha alone by virtue of

> > intution.

> >

> > Our asumption that rashi and navamsha are simple and our haste

and

> > eagerness in answering all questions,will result in failure to

see

> > what is to be seen.Treading slowly and persevering to understand

the

> > depth of rashi chakra can reveal all in the due course.

> >

> > It is not intution or pure luck that helped those simple souls of

> > yesteryears to predict.Deep understanding ,to the core about a

> > bhavanatha and relevant karakas and ability in measuring their

> > strength and their vargamsha sambandhas, as advised by the

venerated

> > sages and strictly abiding to those fundamentals, were the reason.

> >

> > It takes many janmas of tapas to understand the essence.I agree

that

> > in this era of techincal and gross logic we are always looking

for

> > magical formulas.However my personal view is Jyotisha Mahashastra

is

> > a HOLISTIC and a fully evolved science.We may concentrate on our

> > evolution as compared to modifying jyotish.

> >

> > I respect your views and your contribution towards Jyotish

through

> > the selfless software.May Lord bless you.

> >

> > However i have disagreement regarding your chart analysis.As

> > K.N.Raoji says - Concentrate on dasha and antardasha alone for

many

> > years.Understanding Vimshothari alone will take a janma.

> >

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

<pvr@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Inder Jit ji,

> > >

> > > > <I do believe that rasi, navamsa and vimsamsa charts enable

us to

> > get a good

> > > > idea of how much spiritual progress one makes and when.

According

> > to

> > > > Parasara, vimsamsa is the chart of spiritual progress.>

> > > >

> > > > Before proceeding to the Divisions had you done justice with

> > Rashi?

> > >

> > > Easy easy - I did mention rasi also above. :-)

> > >

> > > Rasi chart is like the master projection of the plans of all

the

> > storeys in a sixteen storey building onto the ground floor. Of

> > course, the projection of each storey is contained in it, but

they

> > are all mixed up. Does an affliction to the 4th house show a

problem

> > to mother, happiness, vehicles, education, heart, residence,

wife's

> > career, younger brother's wealth or son's losses?

> > >

> > > Each divisional chart is like the projection of the plan of a

> > single storey in the building.

> > >

> > > > And what is spiritual? Doing Homa and reciting Mantra is

Spritual?

> > >

> > > :-) Why are you asking me and why are you bringing up homa?

> > >

> > > Spiritual means a clear understanding of the *essence* of Veda

and

> > Upanishads and imbibing it in one's thoughts and actions.

> > >

> > > All religions, rituals and sadhanas are different paths to

this.

> > One may make spiritual progress through recital of a mantra, one

may

> > make it through homa/havan, one may make it through devotion and

> > surrender to a deity, one may make it through just contemplation

and

> > knowledge, one may make it through service to others with

discipline

> > and devotion, one may make it through hatha yoga, and so on.

There

> > are many paths. Also, spiritual progress is not restricted to a

> > specific religion. There have been people from many regions of

the

> > world and many religions, who demonstrated a clear understanding

the

> > essence of Veda and Upanishads in their actions (though they may

have

> > never read those scriptures).

> > >

> > > > Todays spiritual is more like a blind man leading to the

groups

> > of blind

> > > > persons.

> > >

> > > You may be right.

> > >

> > > Who leads who, who is attracted to whose words and who is

> > antagonized by whose words is all a play of karmas and rinas.

> > >

> > > > <...

> > > > him. He confirmed that those 1.5 years were very special and

that

> > antardasa

> > > > jumped at me when I saw the vimsamsa chart and Vimsottari

dasa!>

> > > >

> > > > Have the experience your self and see if you could explain

it,

> > May God bless

> > > > you with this.

> > >

> > > Thank you for the blessings.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------------

--

> > > Do Ganapathi Homam Yourself:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > -------------------------------

--

> > >

> > > , " Inder Jit Sahni "

> > <inder_jit_sahni@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Narsimha,

> > > >

> > > > <I do believe that rasi, navamsa and vimsamsa charts enable

us to

> > get a good

> > > > idea of how much spiritual progress one makes and when.

According

> > to

> > > > Parasara, vimsamsa is the chart of spiritual progress.>

> > > >

> > > > Before proceeding to the Divisions had you done justice with

> > Rashi?

> > > >

> > > > And what is spiritual? Doing Homa and reciting Mantra is

Spritual?

> > > >

> > > > Todays spiritual is more like a blind man leading to the

groups

> > of blind

> > > > persons.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > <There were many cases where I could " guess " the past

spiritual

> > events quite

> > > > well. For example, I asked one gentleman if he had a

Kundalini

> > awakening and

> > > > some mystical experiences in a specific one and half year

period.

> > Based on

> > > > vimsamsa chart and Vimsottari antardasa, it seemed very very

> > likely that he

> > > > would. When I asked, he confirmed to me that I was correct.

He

> > locked

> > > > himself in a room for a few days and started

contemplating " who

> > am I " . When

> > > > he was lost and started crying, a Hindu god appeared before

him

> > and showed

> > > > him some things. This gentleman is quite discreet and does

not

> > talk about

> > > > his spiritual experiences to everyone. He revealed only to

> > confirm my

> > > > post-diction, after I specifically asked. The same gentleman

met a

> > > > disgusting looking yogi in Himalayas in the same antardasa,

who

> > showed him

> > > > some unbelievable miracles and induced some more mystical

> > experiences in

> > > > him. He confirmed that those 1.5 years were very special and

that

> > antardasa

> > > > jumped at me when I saw the vimsamsa chart and Vimsottari

dasa!>

> > > >

> > > > Have the experience your self and see if you could explain

it,

> > May God bless

> > > > you with this.

> > > >

> > > > <However, it is quite pessimistic to think that one's

spiritual

> > progress in

> > > > current life cannot be seen astrologically with any clarity

or

> > confidence. >

> > > >

> > > > Think properly you may find it ones to be optimist that no

soul

> > is fallen

> > > > soul and every soul can progress beyond astrology.

> > > >

> > > > With best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Inder Jit Sahni

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I am not sure parashar taught divisional charts. He

taught divisions. To use them as divisional charts is

a modern invention and jury is still out on this one.

People have pointed to one verse to say parashar

sanctionbs divisional charts. But the same shloka can

be interpreted to mean see the division in Rashi

chart.

 

Vijaydas is wrting a paper on this. Members may look

in the archives of last year to find the discussion.

There is no explicit sanction to use divisions as

separate charts. This has added the most confusion to

jyotish and it basically a tool to explain away KNOWN

things. As with diviosional charts every planet

becomes a candidate to confer result of each and every

house.

 

Satish

--- " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote:

 

> Namaste Pradeep ji,

>

> > Our asumption that rashi and navamsha are simple

> and our haste and

> > eagerness in answering all questions,will result

> in failure to see

> > what is to be seen.Treading slowly and persevering

> to understand the

> > depth of rashi chakra can reveal all in the due

> course.

>

> The issue is not that rasi and navamsa chart are

> " simple " or one needs to " tread slowly " . The issue

> is whether there is enough depth and degrees of

> freedom in rasi and navamsa charts. The issue is

> that lagna and all planets remain in the same

> positions in rasi and navamsa charts for 14 minutes

> on average. We have cases of twins and triplets born

> minutes apart, who share the same rasi and navamsa

> charts but have totally different personalities and

> lives. Even if you learn the interpretation of rasi

> and navamsa charts for 100 years or even 100 lives,

> the fact remains that they do not have enough

> degrees of freedom.

>

> In fact, many old astrologers use only rasi chart,

> which remains constant for 2 hours. From the point

> of view of degrees of freedom, this is plain silly.

>

> One can see whatever one wants to see in a cloud.

> One may see a house in a cloud on one occasion and

> may see a tree in the very same cloud on another

> occasion. But that is an art then and not a science.

> If an astrologer with good intuition has the ability

> to see two or three totally different fortunes from

> the same rasi chart for twins or triplets, I respect

> the ability but it is an art and not a science.

>

> If astrology aspires to be a science, the only way

> is to understand the teachings of Parasara correctly

> and decipher the divisional charts etc.

>

> Divisional charts are not some " new thing " . They

> were taught by Parasara about 5,000 years ago and

> have been used by several traditions even during the

> last few centuries when rasi chart based predictions

> became common in the mainstream.

>

> Anyway, if you believe that rasi chart is enough for

> everything, please feel free to use that approach

> and good luck!

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

 

> Do Ganapathi Homam Yourself:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Spirituality:

>

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

> http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows):

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:

> http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

 

>

> ,

> " vijayadas_pradeep " <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Narasimha ji

> >

> > I am pasting again what Inderjit has mentioned -

> > > > Before proceeding to the Divisions had you

> done justice with

> > >>Rashi?

> > The reason for the repetition is mentioned below.

> >

> > In another mail you had mentioned that elder

> astrologers where able

> > to predict with the help of rashi and navamsha

> alone by virtue of

> > intution.

> >

> > Our asumption that rashi and navamsha are simple

> and our haste and

> > eagerness in answering all questions,will result

> in failure to see

> > what is to be seen.Treading slowly and persevering

> to understand the

> > depth of rashi chakra can reveal all in the due

> course.

> >

> > It is not intution or pure luck that helped those

> simple souls of

> > yesteryears to predict.Deep understanding ,to the

> core about a

> > bhavanatha and relevant karakas and ability in

> measuring their

> > strength and their vargamsha sambandhas, as

> advised by the venerated

> > sages and strictly abiding to those fundamentals,

> were the reason.

> >

> > It takes many janmas of tapas to understand the

> essence.I agree that

> > in this era of techincal and gross logic we are

> always looking for

> > magical formulas.However my personal view is

> Jyotisha Mahashastra is

> > a HOLISTIC and a fully evolved science.We may

> concentrate on our

> > evolution as compared to modifying jyotish.

> >

> > I respect your views and your contribution towards

> Jyotish through

> > the selfless software.May Lord bless you.

> >

> > However i have disagreement regarding your chart

> analysis.As

> > K.N.Raoji says - Concentrate on dasha and

> antardasha alone for many

> > years.Understanding Vimshothari alone will take a

> janma.

> >

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> > , " Narasimha

> P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Inder Jit ji,

> > >

> > > > <I do believe that rasi, navamsa and vimsamsa

> charts enable us to

> > get a good

> > > > idea of how much spiritual progress one makes

> and when. According

> > to

> > > > Parasara, vimsamsa is the chart of spiritual

> progress.>

> > > >

> > > > Before proceeding to the Divisions had you

> done justice with

> > Rashi?

> > >

> > > Easy easy - I did mention rasi also above. :-)

> > >

> > > Rasi chart is like the master projection of the

> plans of all the

> > storeys in a sixteen storey building onto the

> ground floor. Of

> > course, the projection of each storey is contained

> in it, but they

> > are all mixed up. Does an affliction to the 4th

> house show a problem

> > to mother, happiness, vehicles, education, heart,

> residence, wife's

> > career, younger brother's wealth or son's losses?

> > >

> > > Each divisional chart is like the projection of

> the plan of a

> > single storey in the building.

> > >

> > > > And what is spiritual? Doing Homa and reciting

> Mantra is Spritual?

> > >

> > > :-) Why are you asking me and why are you

> bringing up homa?

> > >

> > > Spiritual means a clear understanding of the

> *essence* of Veda and

> > Upanishads and imbibing it in one's thoughts and

> actions.

> > >

> > > All religions, rituals and sadhanas are

> different paths to this.

> > One may make spiritual progress through recital of

> a mantra, one may

> > make it through homa/havan, one may make it

> through devotion and

> > surrender to a deity, one may make it through just

> contemplation and

> > knowledge, one may make it through service to

> others with discipline

> > and devotion, one may make it through hatha yoga,

> and so on. There

> > are many paths. Also, spiritual progress is not

> restricted to a

> > specific religion. There have been people from

> many regions of the

> > world and many religions, who demonstrated a clear

> understanding the

> > essence of Veda and Upanishads in their actions

> (though they may have

> > never read those scriptures).

> > >

> > > > Todays spiritual is more like a blind man

> leading to the groups

> > of blind

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

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