Debilitation of 5th lord - to Bhaskar ji

March 30, 2008

hare rama krishna

dear krishna

if u allow me to answer ,the debilated parivathana is a burden ,it

will show debilation first what ever the satra or classicals says

then sure it will do the effects of exchange

the other technical debate is good for nothing and it actual parctise no

body has seen it .even those native

its a curse we can say

tho u r not interested in the chart ,other wise what ever bhaskar ji

says is correct ,how and why sri PVR forget their favrbale badhaka

therey i dont know ,and some mails frm some frnds stop me frm reacting

regrds sunil nair

om shreem mahalaxmai namah

, Krishnamurthy Seetharama

<krishna_1998 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji,

>

> As I made my point earlier, I am not raising this question with

reference to the chart being discused in this thread. Hence, the

question of lagna, who is badhaka or 5th lord are not important to me.

>

> Irrespective of what is the lagna of the chart, is it correct to say

that both Mars (in Cancer) and Moon (in Scorpio) don't behave as

debilitated planets (as a result of parivartana)?

>

> In my observation I have found that the answer to the above question

to be YES. I want to know if learned people also share the same view.

Please give your opinion by treating this as a generic question without

considering the particular chart being analysed.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Krishnaji,

>

> Apart from the debilitation of

> the 5th lord, and the badhakasthanadhipati

> placed in the 5th house, Moon acquires

> a bad Guna by being placed in Anuradha

> nakshatra owned by Saturn. And what

> about Saturn ? it acquires

> a highly malefic bad Guna, by being

> placed in mrigasira constellation

> owned by Mars.

>

> At the most as per my view,

> this native will be given to

> meditation in fits and starts,

> and abrupt closures, and may

> be able to gain some favour of

> a base female ( lower level)

> deity, in time to come which on

> the contrary may prove harmful to

> him, if he is not able to continue

> being good person , after this

> favour received,because his

> 9th house is again afflicted

> due to a debilitated Moon placed

> there, and a malefic Saturn

> aspecting it in full glory.

>

> But there is only one saving

> grace here, which i will not

> talk of now, but just give a

> clue, Ketu.

>

> best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " Bhaskar " bhaskar_jyotish@

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Krishnaji,

> >

> > Sorry to enter this thread.

> > First of all I am not of the

> > favour that in this case both

> > houses have

> > exchanged their Lords. i would

> > treat normally Mars.he

> > 5th House as per my little

> > knowledge.

> > Next even if any parivartana is

> > cited and allowed in above case,

> > keeping ketu as the 5th lord,I would

> > consider it as a most ordinary

> > parivartana, and not any thing

> > beyond it.

> >

> > Any powerful parivartana Yoga must

> > be recognised, as per my knowledge,

> > only if the exchange is in terms of

> > constellation,ie. if the 2 planets are

> > placed in each others constellation,

> > which is not so, in this case.

> > To make it a powerful exchange

> > Moon should have been in nakshatra

> > of Mars.

> >

> > Further, If I am not mistaken Budha

> > is placed in the 5th House, and Budha

> > is considered to be a Badhaksthandhipati,

> > so how will it ncrease the potential of the

> > 5th house, I am unable to understand.

> > It must on the contrary produce badhas.

> >

> > I do not view the exchange of Moon as a

> > significant one.

> >

> > This is of course my personal view,

> > and one is free to disagree.

> >

> > regards,

> > bhaskar.

> >

> > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

> > <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Narasimha,

> > >

> > > Please correct me if I make a wrong astrological statement

> below.

> > >

> > > " In my opinion, when an exchange takes place, the planets in

> > parivartana behave as if they are in their own signs (as a

> resultant

> > of exchange).

> > >

> > > Hence, in this particular case, though Moon is placed in the

> > sign of debilitation, it does not behave like a debilitated planet

> > due to parivartana and behaves as if it is placed in its own sign. "

> > >

> > > I am looking forward to your opinion on the baove statement.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> > > " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > > Namaste friends,

> > >

> > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable to

> > anything

> > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > >

> > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > selected

> > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> hororscope,

> > it is

> > > > all gives good results ??

> > > >

> > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > findings,

> > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > >

> > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > hororscopes

> > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > Probably one

> > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > >

> > > > it would be very sad day to know a person of your

> > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> further,

> > you

> > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same reason.

> > >

> > > I never said debilitation is " more desirable " . I said the

> exchange

> > between 5th and 9th lords is a nice yoga here, *despite* the

> > debilitation of the 5th lord. When the 5th and 9th lords exchange

> > houses and lagna lord is strong, it is a nice raja yoga. Apart

> from

> > rasi, I have examined navamsa and vimsamsa also and given the

> > reasoning behind my views.

> > >

> > > In fact, Jaimini mentions exalted and debilitated planets in the

> > same breath, in the aphorism " tasminnuchche neeche va sreemantah " .

> > Debilitation need not be terrible always. Jyotisha is a much

> deeper

> > ocean than the shallow waters of thumbrules.

> > >

> > > Saying that this native cannot even meditate properly because

> the

> > 5th lord is debilitated is questionable. Though 5th lord Moon is

> > debilitated, he is in devata sthana (9th) with an exchange with

> the

> > 9th lord. Pachaka sthana from 5th lord Moon contains the 12th lord

> > of detachment, Saturn. Bodhaka sthana from Moon contains Ketu,

> > karaka for detachment. Thus, planets associated with detachment

> have

> > a positive influence on 5th lord and it is excellent for mantra

> > sadhana. Moon is naisargika pachaka for 8th lord Venus and here he

> > is in bodhaka sthana from Venus. Thus, Moon has the positive

> > influence on 8th lord, who shows occult experiences.

> > >

> > > Apart from the vimsamsa related points I mentioned earlier, the

> > above pachakadi sambandhas also strengthen 5th lord Moon a lot. To

> > say that this native cannot even meditate properly just because of

> > 5th lord's debilitation is questionable. In my judgment, the

> native

> > is quite capable of meditating with a very high level of focus and

> > detachment and get occult experiences.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > IMHO, predicting terrible results of great specificity just

> based

> > on the debilitation of 5th lord is unwise.

> > >

> > > Many great spiritual giants had debilitated planets. Aurobindo

> > Ghose had the 5th lord debilitated in a trine. Aurobindo

> experienced

> > the highest truths of this creation directly and his commentaries

> on

> > Veda and Upanidhad are the most inspired I have ever read. Swami

> > Sivananda of Hrishikesh, founder of Divine Life Society, also had

> > the 5th lord debilitated in a trine and afflicted by Saturn and

> > Rahu. He had another debilitated planet also and no exalted

> planets.

> > He is one of the very few yogis to have experienced nirvikalpa

> > samadhi in the last century.

> > >

> > > Debilitation of a planet or debilitation of the 5th lord alone

> > cannot be a criterion for giving so many terrible results.

> > >

> > > Affliction of 5th lord by Neptune was also mentioned before.

> First

> > of all, Neptune is not mentioned in any Jyotish classics. Even if

> we

> > accept outer planets, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, who was like

> > Lord Shiva Himself, had the 5th lord afflicted by Neptune within a

> > couple of degrees. Swami Jayendra Saraswati, current chief pontiff

> > of Kanchi mutt, also has Neptune afflicting the 5th lord within a

> > few degrees.

> > >

> > > Moon being in Saturn's star and being aspected by Saturn were

> also

> > mentioned. Well, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati also had Moon in

> > Saturn's nakshatra (same one - Anuradha) and Saturn aspected him.

> So

> > what? Saturn's strong influence eventually gives detachment.

> > >

> > > I respect you guys for your views, but these extreme views are

> > based on questionable principles. When I provide an alternative

> view

> > and provide the astrological reasoning, there are attempts being

> > made to attack and/or bully me. This is unfortunate and

> unscholarly.

> > >

> > > This is a public forum where different views are aired. If you

> > absolutely hate somebody and want to believe that his horoscope

> > justifies your extreme views on him, that is fine. You are

> entitled

> > to your views. But please do not attack and bully those who

> disagree

> > with you and provide a different viewpoint. We can disagree in a

> > respectful and civil manner.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------

> > > Do Ganapathi Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > -------------------------

> > >

> > > , " sreeram srinivas "

> > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear P.V.R. Rao ji,

> > > >

> > > > Kindly accept my thanks to you for the upgraded version of

> JHora.

> > > >

> > > > Feel, you are apparently being invited by somebody to defend

> > himself, is

> > > > using your good name . Those who know this person closely,

> would

> > NOT

> > > > agree to your astro_analysis which are quite OFF mark, thanks

> to

> > your

> > > > carefully worded message, else, it would surely disappointed

> the

> > > > general users of JHORA that a person behind such software, can

> > make so

> > > > many " incorrect predictions " !!

> > > >

> > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable to

> > anything

> > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > >

> > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > selected

> > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> hororscope,

> > it is

> > > > all gives good results ??

> > > >

> > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > findings,

> > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > >

> > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > hororscopes

> > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > Probably one

> > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > >

> > > > If you are scared that he would tarnish your image with his

> > expletives

> > > > is a reason for your rushing to his support, as he is often

> seen

> > in

> > > > every group, then you have my assurance, that I will stand by

> you

> > > > against this man with all my other friends and ammunition.

> > > >

> > > > Else, should we think or conclude that, you are really

> defending

> > this

> > > > " fallen person " , it would be very sad day to know a person of

> > your

> > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> further,

> > you

> > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same reason.

> > > >

> > > > Naramsimha ji, you are nice person with some virtuous

> qualities,

> > use

> > > > them to side with goodness, but not for the fallen soul.

> > Probably you

> > > > do not know anything of this person's behavior or you are all

> > out to

> > > > make him and accord your SJC Guru-doom ship to him in the

> > nearest future

> > > > !!

> > > >

> > > > Narasimhaji, I still have respect for you and your

> contribution

> > to the

> > > > software and your sincerity shown in certain matters through

> > various

> > > > debates, but your blind support in this case, without asking,

> > makes me

> > > > to re-think of the image that I have long carried.

> > > >

> > > > It is never too late for anything....I would personally

> request

> > you to

> > > > seriously rethink on above.

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > >

> > > > Sreeram_Srinivas

> > > >

> > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

> > > > > pvr@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I came to this list after a long time and checked the

> latest

> > > > > messages. This topic attracted me - I thought I would find

> > useful

> > > > > data.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Having opened the mail, I want to respond astrologically

> on

> > this

> > > > > data. I realize that there may be some unpleasant dealings

> > between

> > > > > some people on this list and there may be some background to

> > this

> > > > > that I am unaware of. However, as an astrologer given a

> chart,

> > I

> > > > > want to say a few words on this chart. Please forgive me if

> > you do

> > > > > not welcome my comments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my judgment, the native is not " mentally deranged " . He

> > may be

> > > > > very very fiery and unreasonably short-tempered, but I see

> no

> > mental

> > > > > derangement and hallucinations as mentioned below.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lagna and Moon are both very closely aspected by Mars (8th

> > and 4th

> > > > > aspects respectively). Mars is with another fiery planet Sun

> > in a

> > > > > fiery sign (Leo). Such Mars aspecting lagna and Moon closely

> > makes

> > > > > him quite short-tempered and haughty. Mars aspects Moon and

> > lagna in

> > > > > trimsamsa (D-30) also. D-30 is the chart that shows one's

> > evils that

> > > > > operate at the sub-conscious plane and throws light on the

> > paapa

> > > > > purusha (personified sin) that lives within one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This combination is bad and makes him very hot and perhaps

> > over

> > > > > the top. It shows a lot of inbuilt anger that needs to be

> > overcome.

> > > > > However, Jupiter owns lagna and occupies a quadrant - his

> > > > > moolatrikona. He has rasi drishti as well as 3/4th graha

> > drishti on

> > > > > lagna. That is the savior. Also, navamsa lagna lord is

> exalted

> > in

> > > > > 9th in navamsa. These factors give basic strength to the

> chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I cannot understand why debilitated 5th lord Moon in 9th

> is

> > so

> > > > > terrible. It is actually good to have the 9th lord in 5th

> > (even if

> > > > > in debility). Though Moon is debilitated, he has neecha

> > bhanga. The

> > > > > exchange between 9th lord Ketu and 5th lord Moon is quite

> good

> > for

> > > > > spiritual progress. The placement of devatapada (A9) and

> > mantrapada

> > > > > (A5) in a lagna owned by Jupiter, with Jupiter aspecting

> them,

> > is a

> > > > > great blessing in one's spiritual pursuit. Padas (arudha

> > padas) are

> > > > > to bhavas (houses) what words (padas) are to

> meanings/feelings

> > > > > (bhavas). While feelings are intangible, the words used to

> > express

> > > > > them are tangible. The houses can show intangible matters,

> > while

> > > > > their arudha padas show tangible articles related to them.

> > Arudha

> > > > > padas are very important.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lagna is in 8th from chara atmakaraka in navamsa and that

> is

> > good

> > > > > for spiritual progress. In vimsamsa (D-20), the chart of

> > spiritual

> > > > > evolution, lagna lord Jupiter is in the 12th house of

> > liberation.

> > > > > The lord of devata/guru sthana (9th), Sun, is in a friendly

> > sign in

> > > > > lagna. That is excellent. The 5th house of mantra is strong

> > with

> > > > > nodes. Chandra Mangala yoga in the 6th house of siddhis

> given

> > by the

> > > > > 8th lord of occult experiences and 12th lord of liberation is

> > > > > conducive to mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With this rasi, navamsa, trimsamsa and vimsamsa, I do not

> > see a

> > > > > mentally deranged person with hallucinations, but a person

> of

> > some

> > > > > spiritual progress, mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Of course, my analysis can only be as good as my knowledge

> > and it

> > > > > is possible that I erred in my analysis and judgment. But I

> am

> > > > > stating what I honestly feel after looking at this chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lalit, because you discussed your chart publicly, I want

> to

> > offer

> > > > > a couple of comments. Hoping that you will tolerate some

> > criticism

> > > > > from me, I will give some honest advice. Please bear with me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have a nice chart. Marriage is difficult with upapada

> > lagna in

> > > > > Taurus, Saturn in it and 2nd lord in 3rd with Ketu. In

> > navamsa, 7th

> > > > > lord is in marana karaka sthana. It is difficult to get

> > married.

> > > > > Fasting on Fridays and praying to Lalita Tripurasundari at

> the

> > end

> > > > > of the day before breaking the fast is recommended for

> relief.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have Saraswati yoga in rasi chart and dhanur guru in

> > lagna in

> > > > > D-24 (chart of learning). AK is in 11th house in rasi chart.

> > You

> > > > > will become a good astrologer in time. But please note that

> > humility

> > > > > is a great virtue. As you learn more, you will realize that

> > this

> > > > > subject is vast and one lifetime is insufficient to master

> it.

> > I

> > > > > learnt Jyotish about 25 years back and spent a lot of my

> time

> > in the

> > > > > last 15 years learning and researching Jyotish. Though I know

> > > > > several topics within Jyotish reasonably well, I do know

> that

> > what I

> > > > > know is much smaller than what is still there to learn. I am

> > not

> > > > > saying this to sound humble. I know it for a fact. I marvel

> at

> > the

> > > > > mastery of Parasara as I discover newer things.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please continue to learn Jyotish from your gurus, but show

> > some

> > > > > humility and be less confrontational and dismissive of

> others

> > and

> > > > > less arrogant. You will become a good astrologer with Her

> > grace,

> > > > > after you develop true humility.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Spiritually, I am confident that you have had your share of

> > > > > mystical experiences. However, I know some who made 1,000

> > times more

> > > > > progress and yet keep quiet mostly. You need to show some

> > discretion

> > > > > and keep your spiritual progress to yourself and not make

> much

> > noise

> > > > > in the public. Do not go around touting things or giving the

> > > > > impression of touting. Please realize that there is much

> much

> > more

> > > > > to be experienced and it will come only when you develop more

> > > > > discretion. You are destined for bigger things and please do

> > not

> > > > > stagnate where you are now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Praises and criticism are both Her forms. Happiness and

> > sadness

> > > > > are both Her forms. Friends and enemies are both Her forms.

> > Learned

> > > > > people and idiots are both Her forms. Knowledge and

> ignorance

> > are

> > > > > both Her forms. Love Her in Her full glory. Overcome your

> > anger and

> > > > > short temper and fill your heart with pure love for Her and

> > all of

> > > > > Her different forms.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please let Pisces lagna and Dhanur Guru dominate your

> > personality

> > > > > and not Simha Mangala aspecting lagna. Let Saturn and Ketu

> > > > > transiting on natal Mars shut down this aspect of your

> > personality

> > > > > for ever. So much is expected from you. Please live up to

> your

> > chart

> > > > > (or atleast my judgment of it!). I sincerely hope that you

> > overcome

> > > > > your anger and hot nature, shine as a star in the Jyotish

> > world and

> > > > > also give direction to many spiritual seekers. You have it

> in

> > you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I want to make one comment on siddhis, spiritual

> experiences

> > and

> > > > > knowledge. These are not comments on anyone, but judt generic

> > > > > comments on some sentiments I observed here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If someone has mystical experiences and visions, it does

> not

> > mean

> > > > > that the person knows everything or is a perfect person.

> While

> > > > > Brahman (field of singularity) is One, the field of duality

> > (also

> > > > > known as Maayaa) is infinite and it is impossible to master

> > it. If

> > > > > She gives someone access to some aspects of the Maayaa that

> > other

> > > > > people do not have access to, She may do it because of some

> > reason.

> > > > > Each being has a specific role to play and given the

> resources

> > > > > needed for playing that role. Some beings play their role

> > without

> > > > > ego and with a complete sense of surrender and leave the

> stage

> > > > > calmly. Some beings have ego, take their role

> > and " achievements "

> > > > > seriously and think that *they* are doing things and make

> more

> > > > > noise. The latter type have more distance to go before

> becoming

> > > > > liberated. However, She needs those types too and may

> > sometimes even

> > > > > give more so-called siddhis to the latter type. Irrespective

> of

> > > > > which type one belongs to, the bottomline is that all the

> > knowledge

> > > > > and experience one has is Hers and given because of the role

> > one has

> > > > > to play. No more and no less.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If a yogi has visions of a devata (deity) or other visions

> or

> > > > > other mystical experiences, it was made possible because

> > he/she has

> > > > > a role to play and those experiences are needed for that

> role.

> > It

> > > > > absolutely does not mean that he/she is somehow great and

> > whatever

> > > > > he/she says is correct. One may master one aspect of maayaa

> > and be

> > > > > clueless on other aspects of maayaa. Astrology and other

> > vedaangas

> > > > > are a small part of this maayaa. Not everyone with some

> > control over

> > > > > some aspects of maayaa are masters of astrology.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A true yogi neither craves for any siddhis nor does he

> > reject them

> > > > > when/if they come. Also, you cannot identify a true yogi from

> > > > > his/her siddhis or other so-called achievements.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Only maharishis are capable of understanding Maayaa in its

> > > > > entirety. They have zero attachment and sense of doership.

> > Their

> > > > > egos are fully killed and hence they are able to be in sahaja

> > > > > samadhi all the time, even when walking and talking. Thus,

> they

> > > > > understand Brahman as well as the entire field of duality

> and

> > how it

> > > > > works. So they are masters of all subjects. But, we should

> not

> > > > > expect to find any maharshis in today's world. We can, of

> > course,

> > > > > expect to find a lot of advanced yogis who experience

> various

> > kinds

> > > > > of mystical visions and yet have imperfect knowledge of many

> > aspects

> > > > > of maayaa.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sorry if you found my freewheeling 2 cents nonsensical.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > Narasimha

> > >

March 30, 2008

Dear Krishnaji,

I cannot say with authenticity,

but feel that,yes the debilitation,

if not cancelled would at least be

eroded to a great extent, off the

malefic part, due to exchange of

signs/houses/constellations.

There may be other factors though,

which may have to be to be looked

in entirety,apart from this, in

isolation, to confirm this.

But again I cannot vouch for this

with strong convictions, for not

sure.

regards,

bhaskar.

, Krishnamurthy Seetharama

<krishna_1998 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji,

>

> As I made my point earlier, I am not raising this question with

reference to the chart being discused in this thread. Hence, the

question of lagna, who is badhaka or 5th lord are not important to

me.

>

> Irrespective of what is the lagna of the chart, is it correct to

say that both Mars (in Cancer) and Moon (in Scorpio) don't behave as

debilitated planets (as a result of parivartana)?

>

> In my observation I have found that the answer to the above

question to be YES. I want to know if learned people also share the

same view. Please give your opinion by treating this as a generic

question without considering the particular chart being analysed.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Krishnaji,

>

> Apart from the debilitation of

> the 5th lord, and the badhakasthanadhipati

> placed in the 5th house, Moon acquires

> a bad Guna by being placed in Anuradha

> nakshatra owned by Saturn. And what

> about Saturn ? it acquires

> a highly malefic bad Guna, by being

> placed in mrigasira constellation

> owned by Mars.

>

> At the most as per my view,

> this native will be given to

> meditation in fits and starts,

> and abrupt closures, and may

> be able to gain some favour of

> a base female ( lower level)

> deity, in time to come which on

> the contrary may prove harmful to

> him, if he is not able to continue

> being good person , after this

> favour received,because his

> 9th house is again afflicted

> due to a debilitated Moon placed

> there, and a malefic Saturn

> aspecting it in full glory.

>

> But there is only one saving

> grace here, which i will not

> talk of now, but just give a

> clue, Ketu.

>

> best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Krishnaji,

> >

> > Sorry to enter this thread.

> > First of all I am not of the

> > favour that in this case both

> > houses have

> > exchanged their Lords. i would

> > treat normally Mars.he

> > 5th House as per my little

> > knowledge.

> > Next even if any parivartana is

> > cited and allowed in above case,

> > keeping ketu as the 5th lord,I would

> > consider it as a most ordinary

> > parivartana, and not any thing

> > beyond it.

> >

> > Any powerful parivartana Yoga must

> > be recognised, as per my knowledge,

> > only if the exchange is in terms of

> > constellation,ie. if the 2 planets are

> > placed in each others constellation,

> > which is not so, in this case.

> > To make it a powerful exchange

> > Moon should have been in nakshatra

> > of Mars.

> >

> > Further, If I am not mistaken Budha

> > is placed in the 5th House, and Budha

> > is considered to be a Badhaksthandhipati,

> > so how will it ncrease the potential of the

> > 5th house, I am unable to understand.

> > It must on the contrary produce badhas.

> >

> > I do not view the exchange of Moon as a

> > significant one.

> >

> > This is of course my personal view,

> > and one is free to disagree.

> >

> > regards,

> > bhaskar.

> >

> > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

> > <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Narasimha,

> > >

> > > Please correct me if I make a wrong astrological statement

> below.

> > >

> > > " In my opinion, when an exchange takes place, the planets in

> > parivartana behave as if they are in their own signs (as a

> resultant

> > of exchange).

> > >

> > > Hence, in this particular case, though Moon is placed in the

> > sign of debilitation, it does not behave like a debilitated

planet

> > due to parivartana and behaves as if it is placed in its own

sign. "

> > >

> > > I am looking forward to your opinion on the baove statement.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> > > " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > > Namaste friends,

> > >

> > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable

to

> > anything

> > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > >

> > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > selected

> > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> hororscope,

> > it is

> > > > all gives good results ??

> > > >

> > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > findings,

> > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > >

> > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > hororscopes

> > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > Probably one

> > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > >

> > > > it would be very sad day to know a person of your

> > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> further,

> > you

> > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same

reason.

> > >

> > > I never said debilitation is " more desirable " . I said the

> exchange

> > between 5th and 9th lords is a nice yoga here, *despite* the

> > debilitation of the 5th lord. When the 5th and 9th lords

exchange

> > houses and lagna lord is strong, it is a nice raja yoga. Apart

> from

> > rasi, I have examined navamsa and vimsamsa also and given the

> > reasoning behind my views.

> > >

> > > In fact, Jaimini mentions exalted and debilitated planets in

the

> > same breath, in the aphorism " tasminnuchche neeche va

sreemantah " .

> > Debilitation need not be terrible always. Jyotisha is a much

> deeper

> > ocean than the shallow waters of thumbrules.

> > >

> > > Saying that this native cannot even meditate properly because

> the

> > 5th lord is debilitated is questionable. Though 5th lord Moon is

> > debilitated, he is in devata sthana (9th) with an exchange with

> the

> > 9th lord. Pachaka sthana from 5th lord Moon contains the 12th

lord

> > of detachment, Saturn. Bodhaka sthana from Moon contains Ketu,

> > karaka for detachment. Thus, planets associated with detachment

> have

> > a positive influence on 5th lord and it is excellent for mantra

> > sadhana. Moon is naisargika pachaka for 8th lord Venus and here

he

> > is in bodhaka sthana from Venus. Thus, Moon has the positive

> > influence on 8th lord, who shows occult experiences.

> > >

> > > Apart from the vimsamsa related points I mentioned earlier,

the

> > above pachakadi sambandhas also strengthen 5th lord Moon a lot.

To

> > say that this native cannot even meditate properly just because

of

> > 5th lord's debilitation is questionable. In my judgment, the

> native

> > is quite capable of meditating with a very high level of focus

and

> > detachment and get occult experiences.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > IMHO, predicting terrible results of great specificity just

> based

> > on the debilitation of 5th lord is unwise.

> > >

> > > Many great spiritual giants had debilitated planets. Aurobindo

> > Ghose had the 5th lord debilitated in a trine. Aurobindo

> experienced

> > the highest truths of this creation directly and his

commentaries

> on

> > Veda and Upanidhad are the most inspired I have ever read. Swami

> > Sivananda of Hrishikesh, founder of Divine Life Society, also

had

> > the 5th lord debilitated in a trine and afflicted by Saturn and

> > Rahu. He had another debilitated planet also and no exalted

> planets.

> > He is one of the very few yogis to have experienced nirvikalpa

> > samadhi in the last century.

> > >

> > > Debilitation of a planet or debilitation of the 5th lord alone

> > cannot be a criterion for giving so many terrible results.

> > >

> > > Affliction of 5th lord by Neptune was also mentioned before.

> First

> > of all, Neptune is not mentioned in any Jyotish classics. Even

if

> we

> > accept outer planets, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, who was

like

> > Lord Shiva Himself, had the 5th lord afflicted by Neptune within

a

> > couple of degrees. Swami Jayendra Saraswati, current chief

pontiff

> > of Kanchi mutt, also has Neptune afflicting the 5th lord within

a

> > few degrees.

> > >

> > > Moon being in Saturn's star and being aspected by Saturn were

> also

> > mentioned. Well, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati also had Moon in

> > Saturn's nakshatra (same one - Anuradha) and Saturn aspected

him.

> So

> > what? Saturn's strong influence eventually gives detachment.

> > >

> > > I respect you guys for your views, but these extreme views are

> > based on questionable principles. When I provide an alternative

> view

> > and provide the astrological reasoning, there are attempts being

> > made to attack and/or bully me. This is unfortunate and

> unscholarly.

> > >

> > > This is a public forum where different views are aired. If you

> > absolutely hate somebody and want to believe that his horoscope

> > justifies your extreme views on him, that is fine. You are

> entitled

> > to your views. But please do not attack and bully those who

> disagree

> > with you and provide a different viewpoint. We can disagree in a

> > respectful and civil manner.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------

> > > Do Ganapathi Homam Yourself:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > -------------------------

> > >

> > > , " sreeram srinivas "

> > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear P.V.R. Rao ji,

> > > >

> > > > Kindly accept my thanks to you for the upgraded version of

> JHora.

> > > >

> > > > Feel, you are apparently being invited by somebody to defend

> > himself, is

> > > > using your good name . Those who know this person closely,

> would

> > NOT

> > > > agree to your astro_analysis which are quite OFF mark,

thanks

> to

> > your

> > > > carefully worded message, else, it would surely disappointed

> the

> > > > general users of JHORA that a person behind such software,

can

> > make so

> > > > many " incorrect predictions " !!

> > > >

> > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable

to

> > anything

> > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > >

> > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > selected

> > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> hororscope,

> > it is

> > > > all gives good results ??

> > > >

> > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > findings,

> > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > >

> > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > hororscopes

> > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > Probably one

> > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > >

> > > > If you are scared that he would tarnish your image with his

> > expletives

> > > > is a reason for your rushing to his support, as he is often

> seen

> > in

> > > > every group, then you have my assurance, that I will stand

by

> you

> > > > against this man with all my other friends and ammunition.

> > > >

> > > > Else, should we think or conclude that, you are really

> defending

> > this

> > > > " fallen person " , it would be very sad day to know a person

of

> > your

> > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> further,

> > you

> > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same

reason.

> > > >

> > > > Naramsimha ji, you are nice person with some virtuous

> qualities,

> > use

> > > > them to side with goodness, but not for the fallen soul.

> > Probably you

> > > > do not know anything of this person's behavior or you are

all

> > out to

> > > > make him and accord your SJC Guru-doom ship to him in the

> > nearest future

> > > > !!

> > > >

> > > > Narasimhaji, I still have respect for you and your

> contribution

> > to the

> > > > software and your sincerity shown in certain matters through

> > various

> > > > debates, but your blind support in this case, without

asking,

> > makes me

> > > > to re-think of the image that I have long carried.

> > > >

> > > > It is never too late for anything....I would personally

> request

> > you to

> > > > seriously rethink on above.

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > >

> > > > Sreeram_Srinivas

> > > >

> > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

> > > > > pvr@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I came to this list after a long time and checked the

> latest

> > > > > messages. This topic attracted me - I thought I would find

> > useful

> > > > > data.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Having opened the mail, I want to respond astrologically

> on

> > this

> > > > > data. I realize that there may be some unpleasant dealings

> > between

> > > > > some people on this list and there may be some background

to

> > this

> > > > > that I am unaware of. However, as an astrologer given a

> chart,

> > I

> > > > > want to say a few words on this chart. Please forgive me

if

> > you do

> > > > > not welcome my comments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my judgment, the native is not " mentally deranged " .

He

> > may be

> > > > > very very fiery and unreasonably short-tempered, but I see

> no

> > mental

> > > > > derangement and hallucinations as mentioned below.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lagna and Moon are both very closely aspected by Mars

(8th

> > and 4th

> > > > > aspects respectively). Mars is with another fiery planet

Sun

> > in a

> > > > > fiery sign (Leo). Such Mars aspecting lagna and Moon

closely

> > makes

> > > > > him quite short-tempered and haughty. Mars aspects Moon

and

> > lagna in

> > > > > trimsamsa (D-30) also. D-30 is the chart that shows one's

> > evils that

> > > > > operate at the sub-conscious plane and throws light on the

> > paapa

> > > > > purusha (personified sin) that lives within one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This combination is bad and makes him very hot and

perhaps

> > over

> > > > > the top. It shows a lot of inbuilt anger that needs to be

> > overcome.

> > > > > However, Jupiter owns lagna and occupies a quadrant - his

> > > > > moolatrikona. He has rasi drishti as well as 3/4th graha

> > drishti on

> > > > > lagna. That is the savior. Also, navamsa lagna lord is

> exalted

> > in

> > > > > 9th in navamsa. These factors give basic strength to the

> chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I cannot understand why debilitated 5th lord Moon in 9th

> is

> > so

> > > > > terrible. It is actually good to have the 9th lord in 5th

> > (even if

> > > > > in debility). Though Moon is debilitated, he has neecha

> > bhanga. The

> > > > > exchange between 9th lord Ketu and 5th lord Moon is quite

> good

> > for

> > > > > spiritual progress. The placement of devatapada (A9) and

> > mantrapada

> > > > > (A5) in a lagna owned by Jupiter, with Jupiter aspecting

> them,

> > is a

> > > > > great blessing in one's spiritual pursuit. Padas (arudha

> > padas) are

> > > > > to bhavas (houses) what words (padas) are to

> meanings/feelings

> > > > > (bhavas). While feelings are intangible, the words used to

> > express

> > > > > them are tangible. The houses can show intangible matters,

> > while

> > > > > their arudha padas show tangible articles related to them.

> > Arudha

> > > > > padas are very important.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lagna is in 8th from chara atmakaraka in navamsa and

that

> is

> > good

> > > > > for spiritual progress. In vimsamsa (D-20), the chart of

> > spiritual

> > > > > evolution, lagna lord Jupiter is in the 12th house of

> > liberation.

> > > > > The lord of devata/guru sthana (9th), Sun, is in a

friendly

> > sign in

> > > > > lagna. That is excellent. The 5th house of mantra is

strong

> > with

> > > > > nodes. Chandra Mangala yoga in the 6th house of siddhis

> given

> > by the

> > > > > 8th lord of occult experiences and 12th lord of liberation

is

> > > > > conducive to mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With this rasi, navamsa, trimsamsa and vimsamsa, I do

not

> > see a

> > > > > mentally deranged person with hallucinations, but a person

> of

> > some

> > > > > spiritual progress, mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Of course, my analysis can only be as good as my

knowledge

> > and it

> > > > > is possible that I erred in my analysis and judgment. But

I

> am

> > > > > stating what I honestly feel after looking at this chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lalit, because you discussed your chart publicly, I want

> to

> > offer

> > > > > a couple of comments. Hoping that you will tolerate some

> > criticism

> > > > > from me, I will give some honest advice. Please bear with

me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have a nice chart. Marriage is difficult with

upapada

> > lagna in

> > > > > Taurus, Saturn in it and 2nd lord in 3rd with Ketu. In

> > navamsa, 7th

> > > > > lord is in marana karaka sthana. It is difficult to get

> > married.

> > > > > Fasting on Fridays and praying to Lalita Tripurasundari at

> the

> > end

> > > > > of the day before breaking the fast is recommended for

> relief.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have Saraswati yoga in rasi chart and dhanur guru in

> > lagna in

> > > > > D-24 (chart of learning). AK is in 11th house in rasi

chart.

> > You

> > > > > will become a good astrologer in time. But please note

that

> > humility

> > > > > is a great virtue. As you learn more, you will realize

that

> > this

> > > > > subject is vast and one lifetime is insufficient to master

> it.

> > I

> > > > > learnt Jyotish about 25 years back and spent a lot of my

> time

> > in the

> > > > > last 15 years learning and researching Jyotish. Though I

know

> > > > > several topics within Jyotish reasonably well, I do know

> that

> > what I

> > > > > know is much smaller than what is still there to learn. I

am

> > not

> > > > > saying this to sound humble. I know it for a fact. I

marvel

> at

> > the

> > > > > mastery of Parasara as I discover newer things.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please continue to learn Jyotish from your gurus, but

show

> > some

> > > > > humility and be less confrontational and dismissive of

> others

> > and

> > > > > less arrogant. You will become a good astrologer with Her

> > grace,

> > > > > after you develop true humility.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Spiritually, I am confident that you have had your share

of

> > > > > mystical experiences. However, I know some who made 1,000

> > times more

> > > > > progress and yet keep quiet mostly. You need to show some

> > discretion

> > > > > and keep your spiritual progress to yourself and not make

> much

> > noise

> > > > > in the public. Do not go around touting things or giving

the

> > > > > impression of touting. Please realize that there is much

> much

> > more

> > > > > to be experienced and it will come only when you develop

more

> > > > > discretion. You are destined for bigger things and please

do

> > not

> > > > > stagnate where you are now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Praises and criticism are both Her forms. Happiness and

> > sadness

> > > > > are both Her forms. Friends and enemies are both Her

forms.

> > Learned

> > > > > people and idiots are both Her forms. Knowledge and

> ignorance

> > are

> > > > > both Her forms. Love Her in Her full glory. Overcome your

> > anger and

> > > > > short temper and fill your heart with pure love for Her

and

> > all of

> > > > > Her different forms.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please let Pisces lagna and Dhanur Guru dominate your

> > personality

> > > > > and not Simha Mangala aspecting lagna. Let Saturn and Ketu

> > > > > transiting on natal Mars shut down this aspect of your

> > personality

> > > > > for ever. So much is expected from you. Please live up to

> your

> > chart

> > > > > (or atleast my judgment of it!). I sincerely hope that you

> > overcome

> > > > > your anger and hot nature, shine as a star in the Jyotish

> > world and

> > > > > also give direction to many spiritual seekers. You have it

> in

> > you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I want to make one comment on siddhis, spiritual

> experiences

> > and

> > > > > knowledge. These are not comments on anyone, but judt

generic

> > > > > comments on some sentiments I observed here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If someone has mystical experiences and visions, it does

> not

> > mean

> > > > > that the person knows everything or is a perfect person.

> While

> > > > > Brahman (field of singularity) is One, the field of

duality

> > (also

> > > > > known as Maayaa) is infinite and it is impossible to

master

> > it. If

> > > > > She gives someone access to some aspects of the Maayaa

that

> > other

> > > > > people do not have access to, She may do it because of

some

> > reason.

> > > > > Each being has a specific role to play and given the

> resources

> > > > > needed for playing that role. Some beings play their role

> > without

> > > > > ego and with a complete sense of surrender and leave the

> stage

> > > > > calmly. Some beings have ego, take their role

> > and " achievements "

> > > > > seriously and think that *they* are doing things and make

> more

> > > > > noise. The latter type have more distance to go before

> becoming

> > > > > liberated. However, She needs those types too and may

> > sometimes even

> > > > > give more so-called siddhis to the latter type.

Irrespective

> of

> > > > > which type one belongs to, the bottomline is that all the

> > knowledge

> > > > > and experience one has is Hers and given because of the

role

> > one has

> > > > > to play. No more and no less.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If a yogi has visions of a devata (deity) or other

visions

> or

> > > > > other mystical experiences, it was made possible because

> > he/she has

> > > > > a role to play and those experiences are needed for that

> role.

> > It

> > > > > absolutely does not mean that he/she is somehow great and

> > whatever

> > > > > he/she says is correct. One may master one aspect of

maayaa

> > and be

> > > > > clueless on other aspects of maayaa. Astrology and other

> > vedaangas

> > > > > are a small part of this maayaa. Not everyone with some

> > control over

> > > > > some aspects of maayaa are masters of astrology.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A true yogi neither craves for any siddhis nor does he

> > reject them

> > > > > when/if they come. Also, you cannot identify a true yogi

from

> > > > > his/her siddhis or other so-called achievements.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Only maharishis are capable of understanding Maayaa in

its

> > > > > entirety. They have zero attachment and sense of doership.

> > Their

> > > > > egos are fully killed and hence they are able to be in

sahaja

> > > > > samadhi all the time, even when walking and talking. Thus,

> they

> > > > > understand Brahman as well as the entire field of duality

> and

> > how it

> > > > > works. So they are masters of all subjects. But, we should

> not

> > > > > expect to find any maharshis in today's world. We can, of

> > course,

> > > > > expect to find a lot of advanced yogis who experience

> various

> > kinds

> > > > > of mystical visions and yet have imperfect knowledge of

many

> > aspects

> > > > > of maayaa.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sorry if you found my freewheeling 2 cents nonsensical.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > Narasimha

> > >

March 30, 2008

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

Hari OM.

Dear Sunil, something I don't understand. Maybe because my English,

but, where is that parivartana yoga? I don't see her.

Best regards,

ashwini

>

> hare rama krishna

>

> dear krishna

>

> if u allow me to answer ,the debilated parivathana is a burden ,it

> will show debilation first what ever the satra or classicals says

>

> then sure it will do the effects of exchange

>

> the other technical debate is good for nothing and it actual parctise no

> body has seen it .even those native

>

> its a curse we can say

>

> tho u r not interested in the chart ,other wise what ever bhaskar ji

> says is correct ,how and why sri PVR forget their favrbale badhaka

> therey i dont know ,and some mails frm some frnds stop me frm reacting

>

> regrds sunil nair

>

> om shreem mahalaxmai namah

>

> , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> >

> > As I made my point earlier, I am not raising this question with

> reference to the chart being discused in this thread. Hence, the

> question of lagna, who is badhaka or 5th lord are not important to me.

> >

> > Irrespective of what is the lagna of the chart, is it correct to say

> that both Mars (in Cancer) and Moon (in Scorpio) don't behave as

> debilitated planets (as a result of parivartana)?

> >

> > In my observation I have found that the answer to the above question

> to be YES. I want to know if learned people also share the same view.

> Please give your opinion by treating this as a generic question without

> considering the particular chart being analysed.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Krishna

> >

> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Krishnaji,

> >

> > Apart from the debilitation of

> > the 5th lord, and the badhakasthanadhipati

> > placed in the 5th house, Moon acquires

> > a bad Guna by being placed in Anuradha

> > nakshatra owned by Saturn. And what

> > about Saturn ? it acquires

> > a highly malefic bad Guna, by being

> > placed in mrigasira constellation

> > owned by Mars.

> >

> > At the most as per my view,

> > this native will be given to

> > meditation in fits and starts,

> > and abrupt closures, and may

> > be able to gain some favour of

> > a base female ( lower level)

> > deity, in time to come which on

> > the contrary may prove harmful to

> > him, if he is not able to continue

> > being good person , after this

> > favour received,because his

> > 9th house is again afflicted

> > due to a debilitated Moon placed

> > there, and a malefic Saturn

> > aspecting it in full glory.

> >

> > But there is only one saving

> > grace here, which i will not

> > talk of now, but just give a

> > clue, Ketu.

> >

> > best wishes,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " Bhaskar " bhaskar_jyotish@

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Krishnaji,

> > >

> > > Sorry to enter this thread.

> > > First of all I am not of the

> > > favour that in this case both

> > > houses have

> > > exchanged their Lords. i would

> > > treat normally Mars.he

> > > 5th House as per my little

> > > knowledge.

> > > Next even if any parivartana is

> > > cited and allowed in above case,

> > > keeping ketu as the 5th lord,I would

> > > consider it as a most ordinary

> > > parivartana, and not any thing

> > > beyond it.

> > >

> > > Any powerful parivartana Yoga must

> > > be recognised, as per my knowledge,

> > > only if the exchange is in terms of

> > > constellation,ie. if the 2 planets are

> > > placed in each others constellation,

> > > which is not so, in this case.

> > > To make it a powerful exchange

> > > Moon should have been in nakshatra

> > > of Mars.

> > >

> > > Further, If I am not mistaken Budha

> > > is placed in the 5th House, and Budha

> > > is considered to be a Badhaksthandhipati,

> > > so how will it ncrease the potential of the

> > > 5th house, I am unable to understand.

> > > It must on the contrary produce badhas.

> > >

> > > I do not view the exchange of Moon as a

> > > significant one.

> > >

> > > This is of course my personal view,

> > > and one is free to disagree.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > bhaskar.

> > >

> > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

> > > <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Narasimha,

> > > >

> > > > Please correct me if I make a wrong astrological statement

> > below.

> > > >

> > > > " In my opinion, when an exchange takes place, the planets in

> > > parivartana behave as if they are in their own signs (as a

> > resultant

> > > of exchange).

> > > >

> > > > Hence, in this particular case, though Moon is placed in the

> > > sign of debilitation, it does not behave like a debilitated planet

> > > due to parivartana and behaves as if it is placed in its own sign. "

> > > >

> > > > I am looking forward to your opinion on the baove statement.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Krishna

> > > >

> > > > " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > > > Namaste friends,

> > > >

> > > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable to

> > > anything

> > > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > > >

> > > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > > selected

> > > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> > hororscope,

> > > it is

> > > > > all gives good results ??

> > > > >

> > > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > > findings,

> > > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > > >

> > > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > > hororscopes

> > > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > > Probably one

> > > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > > >

> > > > > it would be very sad day to know a person of your

> > > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> > further,

> > > you

> > > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same reason.

> > > >

> > > > I never said debilitation is " more desirable " . I said the

> > exchange

> > > between 5th and 9th lords is a nice yoga here, *despite* the

> > > debilitation of the 5th lord. When the 5th and 9th lords exchange

> > > houses and lagna lord is strong, it is a nice raja yoga. Apart

> > from

> > > rasi, I have examined navamsa and vimsamsa also and given the

> > > reasoning behind my views.

> > > >

> > > > In fact, Jaimini mentions exalted and debilitated planets in the

> > > same breath, in the aphorism " tasminnuchche neeche va sreemantah " .

> > > Debilitation need not be terrible always. Jyotisha is a much

> > deeper

> > > ocean than the shallow waters of thumbrules.

> > > >

> > > > Saying that this native cannot even meditate properly because

> > the

> > > 5th lord is debilitated is questionable. Though 5th lord Moon is

> > > debilitated, he is in devata sthana (9th) with an exchange with

> > the

> > > 9th lord. Pachaka sthana from 5th lord Moon contains the 12th lord

> > > of detachment, Saturn. Bodhaka sthana from Moon contains Ketu,

> > > karaka for detachment. Thus, planets associated with detachment

> > have

> > > a positive influence on 5th lord and it is excellent for mantra

> > > sadhana. Moon is naisargika pachaka for 8th lord Venus and here he

> > > is in bodhaka sthana from Venus. Thus, Moon has the positive

> > > influence on 8th lord, who shows occult experiences.

> > > >

> > > > Apart from the vimsamsa related points I mentioned earlier, the

> > > above pachakadi sambandhas also strengthen 5th lord Moon a lot. To

> > > say that this native cannot even meditate properly just because of

> > > 5th lord's debilitation is questionable. In my judgment, the

> > native

> > > is quite capable of meditating with a very high level of focus and

> > > detachment and get occult experiences.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > IMHO, predicting terrible results of great specificity just

> > based

> > > on the debilitation of 5th lord is unwise.

> > > >

> > > > Many great spiritual giants had debilitated planets. Aurobindo

> > > Ghose had the 5th lord debilitated in a trine. Aurobindo

> > experienced

> > > the highest truths of this creation directly and his commentaries

> > on

> > > Veda and Upanidhad are the most inspired I have ever read. Swami

> > > Sivananda of Hrishikesh, founder of Divine Life Society, also had

> > > the 5th lord debilitated in a trine and afflicted by Saturn and

> > > Rahu. He had another debilitated planet also and no exalted

> > planets.

> > > He is one of the very few yogis to have experienced nirvikalpa

> > > samadhi in the last century.

> > > >

> > > > Debilitation of a planet or debilitation of the 5th lord alone

> > > cannot be a criterion for giving so many terrible results.

> > > >

> > > > Affliction of 5th lord by Neptune was also mentioned before.

> > First

> > > of all, Neptune is not mentioned in any Jyotish classics. Even if

> > we

> > > accept outer planets, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, who was like

> > > Lord Shiva Himself, had the 5th lord afflicted by Neptune within a

> > > couple of degrees. Swami Jayendra Saraswati, current chief pontiff

> > > of Kanchi mutt, also has Neptune afflicting the 5th lord within a

> > > few degrees.

> > > >

> > > > Moon being in Saturn's star and being aspected by Saturn were

> > also

> > > mentioned. Well, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati also had Moon in

> > > Saturn's nakshatra (same one - Anuradha) and Saturn aspected him.

> > So

> > > what? Saturn's strong influence eventually gives detachment.

> > > >

> > > > I respect you guys for your views, but these extreme views are

> > > based on questionable principles. When I provide an alternative

> > view

> > > and provide the astrological reasoning, there are attempts being

> > > made to attack and/or bully me. This is unfortunate and

> > unscholarly.

> > > >

> > > > This is a public forum where different views are aired. If you

> > > absolutely hate somebody and want to believe that his horoscope

> > > justifies your extreme views on him, that is fine. You are

> > entitled

> > > to your views. But please do not attack and bully those who

> > disagree

> > > with you and provide a different viewpoint. We can disagree in a

> > > respectful and civil manner.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > > -------------------------

> > > > Do Ganapathi Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > > Spirituality:

> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > -------------------------

> > > >

> > > > , " sreeram srinivas "

> > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear P.V.R. Rao ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Kindly accept my thanks to you for the upgraded version of

> > JHora.

> > > > >

> > > > > Feel, you are apparently being invited by somebody to defend

> > > himself, is

> > > > > using your good name . Those who know this person closely,

> > would

> > > NOT

> > > > > agree to your astro_analysis which are quite OFF mark, thanks

> > to

> > > your

> > > > > carefully worded message, else, it would surely disappointed

> > the

> > > > > general users of JHORA that a person behind such software, can

> > > make so

> > > > > many " incorrect predictions " !!

> > > > >

> > > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable to

> > > anything

> > > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > > >

> > > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > > selected

> > > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> > hororscope,

> > > it is

> > > > > all gives good results ??

> > > > >

> > > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > > findings,

> > > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > > >

> > > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > > hororscopes

> > > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > > Probably one

> > > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you are scared that he would tarnish your image with his

> > > expletives

> > > > > is a reason for your rushing to his support, as he is often

> > seen

> > > in

> > > > > every group, then you have my assurance, that I will stand by

> > you

> > > > > against this man with all my other friends and ammunition.

> > > > >

> > > > > Else, should we think or conclude that, you are really

> > defending

> > > this

> > > > > " fallen person " , it would be very sad day to know a person of

> > > your

> > > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> > further,

> > > you

> > > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same reason.

> > > > >

> > > > > Naramsimha ji, you are nice person with some virtuous

> > qualities,

> > > use

> > > > > them to side with goodness, but not for the fallen soul.

> > > Probably you

> > > > > do not know anything of this person's behavior or you are all

> > > out to

> > > > > make him and accord your SJC Guru-doom ship to him in the

> > > nearest future

> > > > > !!

> > > > >

> > > > > Narasimhaji, I still have respect for you and your

> > contribution

> > > to the

> > > > > software and your sincerity shown in certain matters through

> > > various

> > > > > debates, but your blind support in this case, without asking,

> > > makes me

> > > > > to re-think of the image that I have long carried.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is never too late for anything....I would personally

> > request

> > > you to

> > > > > seriously rethink on above.

> > > > >

> > > > > With regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Sreeram_Srinivas

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

> > > > > > pvr@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I came to this list after a long time and checked the

> > latest

> > > > > > messages. This topic attracted me - I thought I would find

> > > useful

> > > > > > data.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Having opened the mail, I want to respond astrologically

> > on

> > > this

> > > > > > data. I realize that there may be some unpleasant dealings

> > > between

> > > > > > some people on this list and there may be some background to

> > > this

> > > > > > that I am unaware of. However, as an astrologer given a

> > chart,

> > > I

> > > > > > want to say a few words on this chart. Please forgive me if

> > > you do

> > > > > > not welcome my comments.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In my judgment, the native is not " mentally deranged " . He

> > > may be

> > > > > > very very fiery and unreasonably short-tempered, but I see

> > no

> > > mental

> > > > > > derangement and hallucinations as mentioned below.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lagna and Moon are both very closely aspected by Mars (8th

> > > and 4th

> > > > > > aspects respectively). Mars is with another fiery planet Sun

> > > in a

> > > > > > fiery sign (Leo). Such Mars aspecting lagna and Moon closely

> > > makes

> > > > > > him quite short-tempered and haughty. Mars aspects Moon and

> > > lagna in

> > > > > > trimsamsa (D-30) also. D-30 is the chart that shows one's

> > > evils that

> > > > > > operate at the sub-conscious plane and throws light on the

> > > paapa

> > > > > > purusha (personified sin) that lives within one.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This combination is bad and makes him very hot and perhaps

> > > over

> > > > > > the top. It shows a lot of inbuilt anger that needs to be

> > > overcome.

> > > > > > However, Jupiter owns lagna and occupies a quadrant - his

> > > > > > moolatrikona. He has rasi drishti as well as 3/4th graha

> > > drishti on

> > > > > > lagna. That is the savior. Also, navamsa lagna lord is

> > exalted

> > > in

> > > > > > 9th in navamsa. These factors give basic strength to the

> > chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I cannot understand why debilitated 5th lord Moon in 9th

> > is

> > > so

> > > > > > terrible. It is actually good to have the 9th lord in 5th

> > > (even if

> > > > > > in debility). Though Moon is debilitated, he has neecha

> > > bhanga. The

> > > > > > exchange between 9th lord Ketu and 5th lord Moon is quite

> > good

> > > for

> > > > > > spiritual progress. The placement of devatapada (A9) and

> > > mantrapada

> > > > > > (A5) in a lagna owned by Jupiter, with Jupiter aspecting

> > them,

> > > is a

> > > > > > great blessing in one's spiritual pursuit. Padas (arudha

> > > padas) are

> > > > > > to bhavas (houses) what words (padas) are to

> > meanings/feelings

> > > > > > (bhavas). While feelings are intangible, the words used to

> > > express

> > > > > > them are tangible. The houses can show intangible matters,

> > > while

> > > > > > their arudha padas show tangible articles related to them.

> > > Arudha

> > > > > > padas are very important.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lagna is in 8th from chara atmakaraka in navamsa and that

> > is

> > > good

> > > > > > for spiritual progress. In vimsamsa (D-20), the chart of

> > > spiritual

> > > > > > evolution, lagna lord Jupiter is in the 12th house of

> > > liberation.

> > > > > > The lord of devata/guru sthana (9th), Sun, is in a friendly

> > > sign in

> > > > > > lagna. That is excellent. The 5th house of mantra is strong

> > > with

> > > > > > nodes. Chandra Mangala yoga in the 6th house of siddhis

> > given

> > > by the

> > > > > > 8th lord of occult experiences and 12th lord of liberation is

> > > > > > conducive to mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > With this rasi, navamsa, trimsamsa and vimsamsa, I do not

> > > see a

> > > > > > mentally deranged person with hallucinations, but a person

> > of

> > > some

> > > > > > spiritual progress, mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Of course, my analysis can only be as good as my knowledge

> > > and it

> > > > > > is possible that I erred in my analysis and judgment. But I

> > am

> > > > > > stating what I honestly feel after looking at this chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * * *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lalit, because you discussed your chart publicly, I want

> > to

> > > offer

> > > > > > a couple of comments. Hoping that you will tolerate some

> > > criticism

> > > > > > from me, I will give some honest advice. Please bear with me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have a nice chart. Marriage is difficult with upapada

> > > lagna in

> > > > > > Taurus, Saturn in it and 2nd lord in 3rd with Ketu. In

> > > navamsa, 7th

> > > > > > lord is in marana karaka sthana. It is difficult to get

> > > married.

> > > > > > Fasting on Fridays and praying to Lalita Tripurasundari at

> > the

> > > end

> > > > > > of the day before breaking the fast is recommended for

> > relief.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have Saraswati yoga in rasi chart and dhanur guru in

> > > lagna in

> > > > > > D-24 (chart of learning). AK is in 11th house in rasi chart.

> > > You

> > > > > > will become a good astrologer in time. But please note that

> > > humility

> > > > > > is a great virtue. As you learn more, you will realize that

> > > this

> > > > > > subject is vast and one lifetime is insufficient to master

> > it.

> > > I

> > > > > > learnt Jyotish about 25 years back and spent a lot of my

> > time

> > > in the

> > > > > > last 15 years learning and researching Jyotish. Though I know

> > > > > > several topics within Jyotish reasonably well, I do know

> > that

> > > what I

> > > > > > know is much smaller than what is still there to learn. I am

> > > not

> > > > > > saying this to sound humble. I know it for a fact. I marvel

> > at

> > > the

> > > > > > mastery of Parasara as I discover newer things.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please continue to learn Jyotish from your gurus, but show

> > > some

> > > > > > humility and be less confrontational and dismissive of

> > others

> > > and

> > > > > > less arrogant. You will become a good astrologer with Her

> > > grace,

> > > > > > after you develop true humility.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Spiritually, I am confident that you have had your share of

> > > > > > mystical experiences. However, I know some who made 1,000

> > > times more

> > > > > > progress and yet keep quiet mostly. You need to show some

> > > discretion

> > > > > > and keep your spiritual progress to yourself and not make

> > much

> > > noise

> > > > > > in the public. Do not go around touting things or giving the

> > > > > > impression of touting. Please realize that there is much

> > much

> > > more

> > > > > > to be experienced and it will come only when you develop more

> > > > > > discretion. You are destined for bigger things and please do

> > > not

> > > > > > stagnate where you are now.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Praises and criticism are both Her forms. Happiness and

> > > sadness

> > > > > > are both Her forms. Friends and enemies are both Her forms.

> > > Learned

> > > > > > people and idiots are both Her forms. Knowledge and

> > ignorance

> > > are

> > > > > > both Her forms. Love Her in Her full glory. Overcome your

> > > anger and

> > > > > > short temper and fill your heart with pure love for Her and

> > > all of

> > > > > > Her different forms.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please let Pisces lagna and Dhanur Guru dominate your

> > > personality

> > > > > > and not Simha Mangala aspecting lagna. Let Saturn and Ketu

> > > > > > transiting on natal Mars shut down this aspect of your

> > > personality

> > > > > > for ever. So much is expected from you. Please live up to

> > your

> > > chart

> > > > > > (or atleast my judgment of it!). I sincerely hope that you

> > > overcome

> > > > > > your anger and hot nature, shine as a star in the Jyotish

> > > world and

> > > > > > also give direction to many spiritual seekers. You have it

> > in

> > > you.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * * *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I want to make one comment on siddhis, spiritual

> > experiences

> > > and

> > > > > > knowledge. These are not comments on anyone, but judt generic

> > > > > > comments on some sentiments I observed here.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If someone has mystical experiences and visions, it does

> > not

> > > mean

> > > > > > that the person knows everything or is a perfect person.

> > While

> > > > > > Brahman (field of singularity) is One, the field of duality

> > > (also

> > > > > > known as Maayaa) is infinite and it is impossible to master

> > > it. If

> > > > > > She gives someone access to some aspects of the Maayaa that

> > > other

> > > > > > people do not have access to, She may do it because of some

> > > reason.

> > > > > > Each being has a specific role to play and given the

> > resources

> > > > > > needed for playing that role. Some beings play their role

> > > without

> > > > > > ego and with a complete sense of surrender and leave the

> > stage

> > > > > > calmly. Some beings have ego, take their role

> > > and " achievements "

> > > > > > seriously and think that *they* are doing things and make

> > more

> > > > > > noise. The latter type have more distance to go before

> > becoming

> > > > > > liberated. However, She needs those types too and may

> > > sometimes even

> > > > > > give more so-called siddhis to the latter type. Irrespective

> > of

> > > > > > which type one belongs to, the bottomline is that all the

> > > knowledge

> > > > > > and experience one has is Hers and given because of the role

> > > one has

> > > > > > to play. No more and no less.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If a yogi has visions of a devata (deity) or other visions

> > or

> > > > > > other mystical experiences, it was made possible because

> > > he/she has

> > > > > > a role to play and those experiences are needed for that

> > role.

> > > It

> > > > > > absolutely does not mean that he/she is somehow great and

> > > whatever

> > > > > > he/she says is correct. One may master one aspect of maayaa

> > > and be

> > > > > > clueless on other aspects of maayaa. Astrology and other

> > > vedaangas

> > > > > > are a small part of this maayaa. Not everyone with some

> > > control over

> > > > > > some aspects of maayaa are masters of astrology.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A true yogi neither craves for any siddhis nor does he

> > > reject them

> > > > > > when/if they come. Also, you cannot identify a true yogi from

> > > > > > his/her siddhis or other so-called achievements.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Only maharishis are capable of understanding Maayaa in its

> > > > > > entirety. They have zero attachment and sense of doership.

> > > Their

> > > > > > egos are fully killed and hence they are able to be in sahaja

> > > > > > samadhi all the time, even when walking and talking. Thus,

> > they

> > > > > > understand Brahman as well as the entire field of duality

> > and

> > > how it

> > > > > > works. So they are masters of all subjects. But, we should

> > not

> > > > > > expect to find any maharshis in today's world. We can, of

> > > course,

> > > > > > expect to find a lot of advanced yogis who experience

> > various

> > > kinds

> > > > > > of mystical visions and yet have imperfect knowledge of many

> > > aspects

> > > > > > of maayaa.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sorry if you found my freewheeling 2 cents nonsensical.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > Narasimha

> > > >

March 30, 2008

Dear Sunil,

Thanks for your opinion.

Just to let you know, I did not raise this question out of the blue. Over the

last couple of weeks, I have looked at about 200 charts to study them from a

particular point of view (you know what I am talking about. In fact, you are the

one who is behind my rigerous study over the past couple of weeks :-))

I came across the question of parivartana in many charts. What I discovered as

a common thread of parivartana in all these charts is that - the planet

undergoing parivartana behaves as if it is in its own sign (the sign that has

participated in parivartana). As a result, even the analysis should consider

that such planets behave as if they are placed in a different bhava as well. In

fact, in one chart I did come across Mars in Caner and Moon in Scorpio.

My interest in this topic came from that context.

Regards,

Krishna

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

hare rama krishna

dear krishna

if u allow me to answer ,the debilated parivathana is a burden ,it

will show debilation first what ever the satra or classicals says

then sure it will do the effects of exchange

the other technical debate is good for nothing and it actual parctise no

body has seen it .even those native

its a curse we can say

tho u r not interested in the chart ,other wise what ever bhaskar ji

says is correct ,how and why sri PVR forget their favrbale badhaka

therey i dont know ,and some mails frm some frnds stop me frm reacting

regrds sunil nair

om shreem mahalaxmai namah

, Krishnamurthy Seetharama

<krishna_1998 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji,

>

> As I made my point earlier, I am not raising this question with

reference to the chart being discused in this thread. Hence, the

question of lagna, who is badhaka or 5th lord are not important to me.

>

> Irrespective of what is the lagna of the chart, is it correct to say

that both Mars (in Cancer) and Moon (in Scorpio) don't behave as

debilitated planets (as a result of parivartana)?

>

> In my observation I have found that the answer to the above question

to be YES. I want to know if learned people also share the same view.

Please give your opinion by treating this as a generic question without

considering the particular chart being analysed.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Krishnaji,

>

> Apart from the debilitation of

> the 5th lord, and the badhakasthanadhipati

> placed in the 5th house, Moon acquires

> a bad Guna by being placed in Anuradha

> nakshatra owned by Saturn. And what

> about Saturn ? it acquires

> a highly malefic bad Guna, by being

> placed in mrigasira constellation

> owned by Mars.

>

> At the most as per my view,

> this native will be given to

> meditation in fits and starts,

> and abrupt closures, and may

> be able to gain some favour of

> a base female ( lower level)

> deity, in time to come which on

> the contrary may prove harmful to

> him, if he is not able to continue

> being good person , after this

> favour received,because his

> 9th house is again afflicted

> due to a debilitated Moon placed

> there, and a malefic Saturn

> aspecting it in full glory.

>

> But there is only one saving

> grace here, which i will not

> talk of now, but just give a

> clue, Ketu.

>

> best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " Bhaskar " bhaskar_jyotish@

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Krishnaji,

> >

> > Sorry to enter this thread.

> > First of all I am not of the

> > favour that in this case both

> > houses have

> > exchanged their Lords. i would

> > treat normally Mars.he

> > 5th House as per my little

> > knowledge.

> > Next even if any parivartana is

> > cited and allowed in above case,

> > keeping ketu as the 5th lord,I would

> > consider it as a most ordinary

> > parivartana, and not any thing

> > beyond it.

> >

> > Any powerful parivartana Yoga must

> > be recognised, as per my knowledge,

> > only if the exchange is in terms of

> > constellation,ie. if the 2 planets are

> > placed in each others constellation,

> > which is not so, in this case.

> > To make it a powerful exchange

> > Moon should have been in nakshatra

> > of Mars.

> >

> > Further, If I am not mistaken Budha

> > is placed in the 5th House, and Budha

> > is considered to be a Badhaksthandhipati,

> > so how will it ncrease the potential of the

> > 5th house, I am unable to understand.

> > It must on the contrary produce badhas.

> >

> > I do not view the exchange of Moon as a

> > significant one.

> >

> > This is of course my personal view,

> > and one is free to disagree.

> >

> > regards,

> > bhaskar.

> >

> > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

> > <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Narasimha,

> > >

> > > Please correct me if I make a wrong astrological statement

> below.

> > >

> > > " In my opinion, when an exchange takes place, the planets in

> > parivartana behave as if they are in their own signs (as a

> resultant

> > of exchange).

> > >

> > > Hence, in this particular case, though Moon is placed in the

> > sign of debilitation, it does not behave like a debilitated planet

> > due to parivartana and behaves as if it is placed in its own sign. "

> > >

> > > I am looking forward to your opinion on the baove statement.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> > > " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > > Namaste friends,

> > >

> > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable to

> > anything

> > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > >

> > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > selected

> > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> hororscope,

> > it is

> > > > all gives good results ??

> > > >

> > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > findings,

> > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > >

> > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > hororscopes

> > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > Probably one

> > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > >

> > > > it would be very sad day to know a person of your

> > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> further,

> > you

> > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same reason.

> > >

> > > I never said debilitation is " more desirable " . I said the

> exchange

> > between 5th and 9th lords is a nice yoga here, *despite* the

> > debilitation of the 5th lord. When the 5th and 9th lords exchange

> > houses and lagna lord is strong, it is a nice raja yoga. Apart

> from

> > rasi, I have examined navamsa and vimsamsa also and given the

> > reasoning behind my views.

> > >

> > > In fact, Jaimini mentions exalted and debilitated planets in the

> > same breath, in the aphorism " tasminnuchche neeche va sreemantah " .

> > Debilitation need not be terrible always. Jyotisha is a much

> deeper

> > ocean than the shallow waters of thumbrules.

> > >

> > > Saying that this native cannot even meditate properly because

> the

> > 5th lord is debilitated is questionable. Though 5th lord Moon is

> > debilitated, he is in devata sthana (9th) with an exchange with

> the

> > 9th lord. Pachaka sthana from 5th lord Moon contains the 12th lord

> > of detachment, Saturn. Bodhaka sthana from Moon contains Ketu,

> > karaka for detachment. Thus, planets associated with detachment

> have

> > a positive influence on 5th lord and it is excellent for mantra

> > sadhana. Moon is naisargika pachaka for 8th lord Venus and here he

> > is in bodhaka sthana from Venus. Thus, Moon has the positive

> > influence on 8th lord, who shows occult experiences.

> > >

> > > Apart from the vimsamsa related points I mentioned earlier, the

> > above pachakadi sambandhas also strengthen 5th lord Moon a lot. To

> > say that this native cannot even meditate properly just because of

> > 5th lord's debilitation is questionable. In my judgment, the

> native

> > is quite capable of meditating with a very high level of focus and

> > detachment and get occult experiences.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > IMHO, predicting terrible results of great specificity just

> based

> > on the debilitation of 5th lord is unwise.

> > >

> > > Many great spiritual giants had debilitated planets. Aurobindo

> > Ghose had the 5th lord debilitated in a trine. Aurobindo

> experienced

> > the highest truths of this creation directly and his commentaries

> on

> > Veda and Upanidhad are the most inspired I have ever read. Swami

> > Sivananda of Hrishikesh, founder of Divine Life Society, also had

> > the 5th lord debilitated in a trine and afflicted by Saturn and

> > Rahu. He had another debilitated planet also and no exalted

> planets.

> > He is one of the very few yogis to have experienced nirvikalpa

> > samadhi in the last century.

> > >

> > > Debilitation of a planet or debilitation of the 5th lord alone

> > cannot be a criterion for giving so many terrible results.

> > >

> > > Affliction of 5th lord by Neptune was also mentioned before.

> First

> > of all, Neptune is not mentioned in any Jyotish classics. Even if

> we

> > accept outer planets, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, who was like

> > Lord Shiva Himself, had the 5th lord afflicted by Neptune within a

> > couple of degrees. Swami Jayendra Saraswati, current chief pontiff

> > of Kanchi mutt, also has Neptune afflicting the 5th lord within a

> > few degrees.

> > >

> > > Moon being in Saturn's star and being aspected by Saturn were

> also

> > mentioned. Well, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati also had Moon in

> > Saturn's nakshatra (same one - Anuradha) and Saturn aspected him.

> So

> > what? Saturn's strong influence eventually gives detachment.

> > >

> > > I respect you guys for your views, but these extreme views are

> > based on questionable principles. When I provide an alternative

> view

> > and provide the astrological reasoning, there are attempts being

> > made to attack and/or bully me. This is unfortunate and

> unscholarly.

> > >

> > > This is a public forum where different views are aired. If you

> > absolutely hate somebody and want to believe that his horoscope

> > justifies your extreme views on him, that is fine. You are

> entitled

> > to your views. But please do not attack and bully those who

> disagree

> > with you and provide a different viewpoint. We can disagree in a

> > respectful and civil manner.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------

> > > Do Ganapathi Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > -------------------------

> > >

> > > , " sreeram srinivas "

> > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear P.V.R. Rao ji,

> > > >

> > > > Kindly accept my thanks to you for the upgraded version of

> JHora.

> > > >

> > > > Feel, you are apparently being invited by somebody to defend

> > himself, is

> > > > using your good name . Those who know this person closely,

> would

> > NOT

> > > > agree to your astro_analysis which are quite OFF mark, thanks

> to

> > your

> > > > carefully worded message, else, it would surely disappointed

> the

> > > > general users of JHORA that a person behind such software, can

> > make so

> > > > many " incorrect predictions " !!

> > > >

> > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable to

> > anything

> > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > >

> > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > selected

> > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> hororscope,

> > it is

> > > > all gives good results ??

> > > >

> > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > findings,

> > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > >

> > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > hororscopes

> > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > Probably one

> > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > >

> > > > If you are scared that he would tarnish your image with his

> > expletives

> > > > is a reason for your rushing to his support, as he is often

> seen

> > in

> > > > every group, then you have my assurance, that I will stand by

> you

> > > > against this man with all my other friends and ammunition.

> > > >

> > > > Else, should we think or conclude that, you are really

> defending

> > this

> > > > " fallen person " , it would be very sad day to know a person of

> > your

> > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> further,

> > you

> > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same reason.

> > > >

> > > > Naramsimha ji, you are nice person with some virtuous

> qualities,

> > use

> > > > them to side with goodness, but not for the fallen soul.

> > Probably you

> > > > do not know anything of this person's behavior or you are all

> > out to

> > > > make him and accord your SJC Guru-doom ship to him in the

> > nearest future

> > > > !!

> > > >

> > > > Narasimhaji, I still have respect for you and your

> contribution

> > to the

> > > > software and your sincerity shown in certain matters through

> > various

> > > > debates, but your blind support in this case, without asking,

> > makes me

> > > > to re-think of the image that I have long carried.

> > > >

> > > > It is never too late for anything....I would personally

> request

> > you to

> > > > seriously rethink on above.

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > >

> > > > Sreeram_Srinivas

> > > >

> > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

> > > > > pvr@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I came to this list after a long time and checked the

> latest

> > > > > messages. This topic attracted me - I thought I would find

> > useful

> > > > > data.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Having opened the mail, I want to respond astrologically

> on

> > this

> > > > > data. I realize that there may be some unpleasant dealings

> > between

> > > > > some people on this list and there may be some background to

> > this

> > > > > that I am unaware of. However, as an astrologer given a

> chart,

> > I

> > > > > want to say a few words on this chart. Please forgive me if

> > you do

> > > > > not welcome my comments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my judgment, the native is not " mentally deranged " . He

> > may be

> > > > > very very fiery and unreasonably short-tempered, but I see

> no

> > mental

> > > > > derangement and hallucinations as mentioned below.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lagna and Moon are both very closely aspected by Mars (8th

> > and 4th

> > > > > aspects respectively). Mars is with another fiery planet Sun

> > in a

> > > > > fiery sign (Leo). Such Mars aspecting lagna and Moon closely

> > makes

> > > > > him quite short-tempered and haughty. Mars aspects Moon and

> > lagna in

> > > > > trimsamsa (D-30) also. D-30 is the chart that shows one's

> > evils that

> > > > > operate at the sub-conscious plane and throws light on the

> > paapa

> > > > > purusha (personified sin) that lives within one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This combination is bad and makes him very hot and perhaps

> > over

> > > > > the top. It shows a lot of inbuilt anger that needs to be

> > overcome.

> > > > > However, Jupiter owns lagna and occupies a quadrant - his

> > > > > moolatrikona. He has rasi drishti as well as 3/4th graha

> > drishti on

> > > > > lagna. That is the savior. Also, navamsa lagna lord is

> exalted

> > in

> > > > > 9th in navamsa. These factors give basic strength to the

> chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I cannot understand why debilitated 5th lord Moon in 9th

> is

> > so

> > > > > terrible. It is actually good to have the 9th lord in 5th

> > (even if

> > > > > in debility). Though Moon is debilitated, he has neecha

> > bhanga. The

> > > > > exchange between 9th lord Ketu and 5th lord Moon is quite

> good

> > for

> > > > > spiritual progress. The placement of devatapada (A9) and

> > mantrapada

> > > > > (A5) in a lagna owned by Jupiter, with Jupiter aspecting

> them,

> > is a

> > > > > great blessing in one's spiritual pursuit. Padas (arudha

> > padas) are

> > > > > to bhavas (houses) what words (padas) are to

> meanings/feelings

> > > > > (bhavas). While feelings are intangible, the words used to

> > express

> > > > > them are tangible. The houses can show intangible matters,

> > while

> > > > > their arudha padas show tangible articles related to them.

> > Arudha

> > > > > padas are very important.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lagna is in 8th from chara atmakaraka in navamsa and that

> is

> > good

> > > > > for spiritual progress. In vimsamsa (D-20), the chart of

> > spiritual

> > > > > evolution, lagna lord Jupiter is in the 12th house of

> > liberation.

> > > > > The lord of devata/guru sthana (9th), Sun, is in a friendly

> > sign in

> > > > > lagna. That is excellent. The 5th house of mantra is strong

> > with

> > > > > nodes. Chandra Mangala yoga in the 6th house of siddhis

> given

> > by the

> > > > > 8th lord of occult experiences and 12th lord of liberation is

> > > > > conducive to mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With this rasi, navamsa, trimsamsa and vimsamsa, I do not

> > see a

> > > > > mentally deranged person with hallucinations, but a person

> of

> > some

> > > > > spiritual progress, mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Of course, my analysis can only be as good as my knowledge

> > and it

> > > > > is possible that I erred in my analysis and judgment. But I

> am

> > > > > stating what I honestly feel after looking at this chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lalit, because you discussed your chart publicly, I want

> to

> > offer

> > > > > a couple of comments. Hoping that you will tolerate some

> > criticism

> > > > > from me, I will give some honest advice. Please bear with me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have a nice chart. Marriage is difficult with upapada

> > lagna in

> > > > > Taurus, Saturn in it and 2nd lord in 3rd with Ketu. In

> > navamsa, 7th

> > > > > lord is in marana karaka sthana. It is difficult to get

> > married.

> > > > > Fasting on Fridays and praying to Lalita Tripurasundari at

> the

> > end

> > > > > of the day before breaking the fast is recommended for

> relief.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have Saraswati yoga in rasi chart and dhanur guru in

> > lagna in

> > > > > D-24 (chart of learning). AK is in 11th house in rasi chart.

> > You

> > > > > will become a good astrologer in time. But please note that

> > humility

> > > > > is a great virtue. As you learn more, you will realize that

> > this

> > > > > subject is vast and one lifetime is insufficient to master

> it.

> > I

> > > > > learnt Jyotish about 25 years back and spent a lot of my

> time

> > in the

> > > > > last 15 years learning and researching Jyotish. Though I know

> > > > > several topics within Jyotish reasonably well, I do know

> that

> > what I

> > > > > know is much smaller than what is still there to learn. I am

> > not

> > > > > saying this to sound humble. I know it for a fact. I marvel

> at

> > the

> > > > > mastery of Parasara as I discover newer things.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please continue to learn Jyotish from your gurus, but show

> > some

> > > > > humility and be less confrontational and dismissive of

> others

> > and

> > > > > less arrogant. You will become a good astrologer with Her

> > grace,

> > > > > after you develop true humility.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Spiritually, I am confident that you have had your share of

> > > > > mystical experiences. However, I know some who made 1,000

> > times more

> > > > > progress and yet keep quiet mostly. You need to show some

> > discretion

> > > > > and keep your spiritual progress to yourself and not make

> much

> > noise

> > > > > in the public. Do not go around touting things or giving the

> > > > > impression of touting. Please realize that there is much

> much

> > more

> > > > > to be experienced and it will come only when you develop more

> > > > > discretion. You are destined for bigger things and please do

> > not

> > > > > stagnate where you are now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Praises and criticism are both Her forms. Happiness and

> > sadness

> > > > > are both Her forms. Friends and enemies are both Her forms.

> > Learned

> > > > > people and idiots are both Her forms. Knowledge and

> ignorance

> > are

> > > > > both Her forms. Love Her in Her full glory. Overcome your

> > anger and

> > > > > short temper and fill your heart with pure love for Her and

> > all of

> > > > > Her different forms.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please let Pisces lagna and Dhanur Guru dominate your

> > personality

> > > > > and not Simha Mangala aspecting lagna. Let Saturn and Ketu

> > > > > transiting on natal Mars shut down this aspect of your

> > personality

> > > > > for ever. So much is expected from you. Please live up to

> your

> > chart

> > > > > (or atleast my judgment of it!). I sincerely hope that you

> > overcome

> > > > > your anger and hot nature, shine as a star in the Jyotish

> > world and

> > > > > also give direction to many spiritual seekers. You have it

> in

> > you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I want to make one comment on siddhis, spiritual

> experiences

> > and

> > > > > knowledge. These are not comments on anyone, but judt generic

> > > > > comments on some sentiments I observed here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If someone has mystical experiences and visions, it does

> not

> > mean

> > > > > that the person knows everything or is a perfect person.

> While

> > > > > Brahman (field of singularity) is One, the field of duality

> > (also

> > > > > known as Maayaa) is infinite and it is impossible to master

> > it. If

> > > > > She gives someone access to some aspects of the Maayaa that

> > other

> > > > > people do not have access to, She may do it because of some

> > reason.

> > > > > Each being has a specific role to play and given the

> resources

> > > > > needed for playing that role. Some beings play their role

> > without

> > > > > ego and with a complete sense of surrender and leave the

> stage

> > > > > calmly. Some beings have ego, take their role

> > and " achievements "

> > > > > seriously and think that *they* are doing things and make

> more

> > > > > noise. The latter type have more distance to go before

> becoming

> > > > > liberated. However, She needs those types too and may

> > sometimes even

> > > > > give more so-called siddhis to the latter type. Irrespective

> of

> > > > > which type one belongs to, the bottomline is that all the

> > knowledge

> > > > > and experience one has is Hers and given because of the role

> > one has

> > > > > to play. No more and no less.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If a yogi has visions of a devata (deity) or other visions

> or

> > > > > other mystical experiences, it was made possible because

> > he/she has

> > > > > a role to play and those experiences are needed for that

> role.

> > It

> > > > > absolutely does not mean that he/she is somehow great and

> > whatever

> > > > > he/she says is correct. One may master one aspect of maayaa

> > and be

> > > > > clueless on other aspects of maayaa. Astrology and other

> > vedaangas

> > > > > are a small part of this maayaa. Not everyone with some

> > control over

> > > > > some aspects of maayaa are masters of astrology.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A true yogi neither craves for any siddhis nor does he

> > reject them

> > > > > when/if they come. Also, you cannot identify a true yogi from

> > > > > his/her siddhis or other so-called achievements.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Only maharishis are capable of understanding Maayaa in its

> > > > > entirety. They have zero attachment and sense of doership.

> > Their

> > > > > egos are fully killed and hence they are able to be in sahaja

> > > > > samadhi all the time, even when walking and talking. Thus,

> they

> > > > > understand Brahman as well as the entire field of duality

> and

> > how it

> > > > > works. So they are masters of all subjects. But, we should

> not

> > > > > expect to find any maharshis in today's world. We can, of

> > course,

> > > > > expect to find a lot of advanced yogis who experience

> various

> > kinds

> > > > > of mystical visions and yet have imperfect knowledge of many

> > aspects

> > > > > of maayaa.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sorry if you found my freewheeling 2 cents nonsensical.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > Narasimha

> > >

March 30, 2008

hare ram krishna

dear krishna .

like bhaksar ji said there is 3 kinds parivartan .

i will send u a seperate mail on which u see the parivrthana is how

far effective .

its frm the paramapara and not frm caunuaght place books

rgegds sunil nair

om shreem mahalaxmai namah

, Krishnamurthy Seetharama

<krishna_1998 wrote:

>

> Dear Sunil,

>

> Thanks for your opinion.

>

> Just to let you know, I did not raise this question out of the blue.

Over the last couple of weeks, I have looked at about 200 charts to

study them from a particular point of view (you know what I am talking

about. In fact, you are the one who is behind my rigerous study over the

past couple of weeks :-))

>

> I came across the question of parivartana in many charts. What I

discovered as a common thread of parivartana in all these charts is that

- the planet undergoing parivartana behaves as if it is in its own sign

(the sign that has participated in parivartana). As a result, even the

analysis should consider that such planets behave as if they are placed

in a different bhava as well. In fact, in one chart I did come across

Mars in Caner and Moon in Scorpio.

>

> My interest in this topic came from that context.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

March 30, 2008

Dear Bhaskar ji,

You said:

" I cannot say with authenticity,

but feel that,yes the debilitation,

if not cancelled would at least be

eroded to a great extent, off the

malefic part, due to exchange of

signs/houses/constellations.

"

Yes, I agree with your feeling. One can not treat a debilitated planet in

parivartana just like a normal debilitated planet during the analysis. It is a

different ball game. For that matter, even if a planet in parivartana is not

debilitated, it calls for a special treatment of such planets.

Thanks for your frank views and opinion.

Regards,

Krishna

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

Dear Krishnaji,

I cannot say with authenticity,

but feel that,yes the debilitation,

if not cancelled would at least be

eroded to a great extent, off the

malefic part, due to exchange of

signs/houses/constellations.

There may be other factors though,

which may have to be to be looked

in entirety,apart from this, in

isolation, to confirm this.

But again I cannot vouch for this

with strong convictions, for not

sure.

regards,

bhaskar.

, Krishnamurthy Seetharama

<krishna_1998 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji,

>

> As I made my point earlier, I am not raising this question with

reference to the chart being discused in this thread. Hence, the

question of lagna, who is badhaka or 5th lord are not important to

me.

>

> Irrespective of what is the lagna of the chart, is it correct to

say that both Mars (in Cancer) and Moon (in Scorpio) don't behave as

debilitated planets (as a result of parivartana)?

>

> In my observation I have found that the answer to the above

question to be YES. I want to know if learned people also share the

same view. Please give your opinion by treating this as a generic

question without considering the particular chart being analysed.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Krishnaji,

>

> Apart from the debilitation of

> the 5th lord, and the badhakasthanadhipati

> placed in the 5th house, Moon acquires

> a bad Guna by being placed in Anuradha

> nakshatra owned by Saturn. And what

> about Saturn ? it acquires

> a highly malefic bad Guna, by being

> placed in mrigasira constellation

> owned by Mars.

>

> At the most as per my view,

> this native will be given to

> meditation in fits and starts,

> and abrupt closures, and may

> be able to gain some favour of

> a base female ( lower level)

> deity, in time to come which on

> the contrary may prove harmful to

> him, if he is not able to continue

> being good person , after this

> favour received,because his

> 9th house is again afflicted

> due to a debilitated Moon placed

> there, and a malefic Saturn

> aspecting it in full glory.

>

> But there is only one saving

> grace here, which i will not

> talk of now, but just give a

> clue, Ketu.

>

> best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Krishnaji,

> >

> > Sorry to enter this thread.

> > First of all I am not of the

> > favour that in this case both

> > houses have

> > exchanged their Lords. i would

> > treat normally Mars.he

> > 5th House as per my little

> > knowledge.

> > Next even if any parivartana is

> > cited and allowed in above case,

> > keeping ketu as the 5th lord,I would

> > consider it as a most ordinary

> > parivartana, and not any thing

> > beyond it.

> >

> > Any powerful parivartana Yoga must

> > be recognised, as per my knowledge,

> > only if the exchange is in terms of

> > constellation,ie. if the 2 planets are

> > placed in each others constellation,

> > which is not so, in this case.

> > To make it a powerful exchange

> > Moon should have been in nakshatra

> > of Mars.

> >

> > Further, If I am not mistaken Budha

> > is placed in the 5th House, and Budha

> > is considered to be a Badhaksthandhipati,

> > so how will it ncrease the potential of the

> > 5th house, I am unable to understand.

> > It must on the contrary produce badhas.

> >

> > I do not view the exchange of Moon as a

> > significant one.

> >

> > This is of course my personal view,

> > and one is free to disagree.

> >

> > regards,

> > bhaskar.

> >

> > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

> > <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Narasimha,

> > >

> > > Please correct me if I make a wrong astrological statement

> below.

> > >

> > > " In my opinion, when an exchange takes place, the planets in

> > parivartana behave as if they are in their own signs (as a

> resultant

> > of exchange).

> > >

> > > Hence, in this particular case, though Moon is placed in the

> > sign of debilitation, it does not behave like a debilitated

planet

> > due to parivartana and behaves as if it is placed in its own

sign. "

> > >

> > > I am looking forward to your opinion on the baove statement.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> > > " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > > Namaste friends,

> > >

> > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable

to

> > anything

> > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > >

> > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > selected

> > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> hororscope,

> > it is

> > > > all gives good results ??

> > > >

> > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > findings,

> > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > >

> > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > hororscopes

> > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > Probably one

> > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > >

> > > > it would be very sad day to know a person of your

> > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> further,

> > you

> > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same

reason.

> > >

> > > I never said debilitation is " more desirable " . I said the

> exchange

> > between 5th and 9th lords is a nice yoga here, *despite* the

> > debilitation of the 5th lord. When the 5th and 9th lords

exchange

> > houses and lagna lord is strong, it is a nice raja yoga. Apart

> from

> > rasi, I have examined navamsa and vimsamsa also and given the

> > reasoning behind my views.

> > >

> > > In fact, Jaimini mentions exalted and debilitated planets in

the

> > same breath, in the aphorism " tasminnuchche neeche va

sreemantah " .

> > Debilitation need not be terrible always. Jyotisha is a much

> deeper

> > ocean than the shallow waters of thumbrules.

> > >

> > > Saying that this native cannot even meditate properly because

> the

> > 5th lord is debilitated is questionable. Though 5th lord Moon is

> > debilitated, he is in devata sthana (9th) with an exchange with

> the

> > 9th lord. Pachaka sthana from 5th lord Moon contains the 12th

lord

> > of detachment, Saturn. Bodhaka sthana from Moon contains Ketu,

> > karaka for detachment. Thus, planets associated with detachment

> have

> > a positive influence on 5th lord and it is excellent for mantra

> > sadhana. Moon is naisargika pachaka for 8th lord Venus and here

he

> > is in bodhaka sthana from Venus. Thus, Moon has the positive

> > influence on 8th lord, who shows occult experiences.

> > >

> > > Apart from the vimsamsa related points I mentioned earlier,

the

> > above pachakadi sambandhas also strengthen 5th lord Moon a lot.

To

> > say that this native cannot even meditate properly just because

of

> > 5th lord's debilitation is questionable. In my judgment, the

> native

> > is quite capable of meditating with a very high level of focus

and

> > detachment and get occult experiences.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > IMHO, predicting terrible results of great specificity just

> based

> > on the debilitation of 5th lord is unwise.

> > >

> > > Many great spiritual giants had debilitated planets. Aurobindo

> > Ghose had the 5th lord debilitated in a trine. Aurobindo

> experienced

> > the highest truths of this creation directly and his

commentaries

> on

> > Veda and Upanidhad are the most inspired I have ever read. Swami

> > Sivananda of Hrishikesh, founder of Divine Life Society, also

had

> > the 5th lord debilitated in a trine and afflicted by Saturn and

> > Rahu. He had another debilitated planet also and no exalted

> planets.

> > He is one of the very few yogis to have experienced nirvikalpa

> > samadhi in the last century.

> > >

> > > Debilitation of a planet or debilitation of the 5th lord alone

> > cannot be a criterion for giving so many terrible results.

> > >

> > > Affliction of 5th lord by Neptune was also mentioned before.

> First

> > of all, Neptune is not mentioned in any Jyotish classics. Even

if

> we

> > accept outer planets, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, who was

like

> > Lord Shiva Himself, had the 5th lord afflicted by Neptune within

a

> > couple of degrees. Swami Jayendra Saraswati, current chief

pontiff

> > of Kanchi mutt, also has Neptune afflicting the 5th lord within

a

> > few degrees.

> > >

> > > Moon being in Saturn's star and being aspected by Saturn were

> also

> > mentioned. Well, Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati also had Moon in

> > Saturn's nakshatra (same one - Anuradha) and Saturn aspected

him.

> So

> > what? Saturn's strong influence eventually gives detachment.

> > >

> > > I respect you guys for your views, but these extreme views are

> > based on questionable principles. When I provide an alternative

> view

> > and provide the astrological reasoning, there are attempts being

> > made to attack and/or bully me. This is unfortunate and

> unscholarly.

> > >

> > > This is a public forum where different views are aired. If you

> > absolutely hate somebody and want to believe that his horoscope

> > justifies your extreme views on him, that is fine. You are

> entitled

> > to your views. But please do not attack and bully those who

> disagree

> > with you and provide a different viewpoint. We can disagree in a

> > respectful and civil manner.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------

> > > Do Ganapathi Homam Yourself:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > -------------------------

> > >

> > > , " sreeram srinivas "

> > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear P.V.R. Rao ji,

> > > >

> > > > Kindly accept my thanks to you for the upgraded version of

> JHora.

> > > >

> > > > Feel, you are apparently being invited by somebody to defend

> > himself, is

> > > > using your good name . Those who know this person closely,

> would

> > NOT

> > > > agree to your astro_analysis which are quite OFF mark,

thanks

> to

> > your

> > > > carefully worded message, else, it would surely disappointed

> the

> > > > general users of JHORA that a person behind such software,

can

> > make so

> > > > many " incorrect predictions " !!

> > > >

> > > > It appears debilitated planets in trines are more desirable

to

> > anything

> > > > else. Is this a new SJC rule P.V.R. Rao ji ??

> > > >

> > > > Debilitated planets in other horoscopes is bad, but in SJC

> > selected

> > > > horoscopes which includes the subject of discussion

> hororscope,

> > it is

> > > > all gives good results ??

> > > >

> > > > Do we need to redefine the astro_classics to include the new

> > findings,

> > > > PVR Raoji ??

> > > >

> > > > Kindly do consider putting this " famous chart " as a default

> > hororscopes

> > > > in all your future releases of JHORA with your analysis -

> > Probably one

> > > > day realization may dawn upon you.

> > > >

> > > > If you are scared that he would tarnish your image with his

> > expletives

> > > > is a reason for your rushing to his support, as he is often

> seen

> > in

> > > > every group, then you have my assurance, that I will stand

by

> you

> > > > against this man with all my other friends and ammunition.

> > > >

> > > > Else, should we think or conclude that, you are really

> defending

> > this

> > > > " fallen person " , it would be very sad day to know a person

of

> > your

> > > > nature, should fall prey to his loopsided spirituality,

> further,

> > you

> > > > should also partake some of his bad karma for the same

reason.

> > > >

> > > > Naramsimha ji, you are nice person with some virtuous

> qualities,

> > use

> > > > them to side with goodness, but not for the fallen soul.

> > Probably you

> > > > do not know anything of this person's behavior or you are

all

> > out to

> > > > make him and accord your SJC Guru-doom ship to him in the

> > nearest future

> > > > !!

> > > >

> > > > Narasimhaji, I still have respect for you and your

> contribution

> > to the

> > > > software and your sincerity shown in certain matters through

> > various

> > > > debates, but your blind support in this case, without

asking,

> > makes me

> > > > to re-think of the image that I have long carried.

> > > >

> > > > It is never too late for anything....I would personally

> request

> > you to

> > > > seriously rethink on above.

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > >

> > > > Sreeram_Srinivas

> > > >

> > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

> > > > > pvr@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I came to this list after a long time and checked the

> latest

> > > > > messages. This topic attracted me - I thought I would find

> > useful

> > > > > data.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Having opened the mail, I want to respond astrologically

> on

> > this

> > > > > data. I realize that there may be some unpleasant dealings

> > between

> > > > > some people on this list and there may be some background

to

> > this

> > > > > that I am unaware of. However, as an astrologer given a

> chart,

> > I

> > > > > want to say a few words on this chart. Please forgive me

if

> > you do

> > > > > not welcome my comments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my judgment, the native is not " mentally deranged " .

He

> > may be

> > > > > very very fiery and unreasonably short-tempered, but I see

> no

> > mental

> > > > > derangement and hallucinations as mentioned below.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lagna and Moon are both very closely aspected by Mars

(8th

> > and 4th

> > > > > aspects respectively). Mars is with another fiery planet

Sun

> > in a

> > > > > fiery sign (Leo). Such Mars aspecting lagna and Moon

closely

> > makes

> > > > > him quite short-tempered and haughty. Mars aspects Moon

and

> > lagna in

> > > > > trimsamsa (D-30) also. D-30 is the chart that shows one's

> > evils that

> > > > > operate at the sub-conscious plane and throws light on the

> > paapa

> > > > > purusha (personified sin) that lives within one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This combination is bad and makes him very hot and

perhaps

> > over

> > > > > the top. It shows a lot of inbuilt anger that needs to be

> > overcome.

> > > > > However, Jupiter owns lagna and occupies a quadrant - his

> > > > > moolatrikona. He has rasi drishti as well as 3/4th graha

> > drishti on

> > > > > lagna. That is the savior. Also, navamsa lagna lord is

> exalted

> > in

> > > > > 9th in navamsa. These factors give basic strength to the

> chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I cannot understand why debilitated 5th lord Moon in 9th

> is

> > so

> > > > > terrible. It is actually good to have the 9th lord in 5th

> > (even if

> > > > > in debility). Though Moon is debilitated, he has neecha

> > bhanga. The

> > > > > exchange between 9th lord Ketu and 5th lord Moon is quite

> good

> > for

> > > > > spiritual progress. The placement of devatapada (A9) and

> > mantrapada

> > > > > (A5) in a lagna owned by Jupiter, with Jupiter aspecting

> them,

> > is a

> > > > > great blessing in one's spiritual pursuit. Padas (arudha

> > padas) are

> > > > > to bhavas (houses) what words (padas) are to

> meanings/feelings

> > > > > (bhavas). While feelings are intangible, the words used to

> > express

> > > > > them are tangible. The houses can show intangible matters,

> > while

> > > > > their arudha padas show tangible articles related to them.

> > Arudha

> > > > > padas are very important.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lagna is in 8th from chara atmakaraka in navamsa and

that

> is

> > good

> > > > > for spiritual progress. In vimsamsa (D-20), the chart of

> > spiritual

> > > > > evolution, lagna lord Jupiter is in the 12th house of

> > liberation.

> > > > > The lord of devata/guru sthana (9th), Sun, is in a

friendly

> > sign in

> > > > > lagna. That is excellent. The 5th house of mantra is

strong

> > with

> > > > > nodes. Chandra Mangala yoga in the 6th house of siddhis

> given

> > by the

> > > > > 8th lord of occult experiences and 12th lord of liberation

is

> > > > > conducive to mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With this rasi, navamsa, trimsamsa and vimsamsa, I do

not

> > see a

> > > > > mentally deranged person with hallucinations, but a person

> of

> > some

> > > > > spiritual progress, mystical experiences and visions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Of course, my analysis can only be as good as my

knowledge

> > and it

> > > > > is possible that I erred in my analysis and judgment. But

I

> am

> > > > > stating what I honestly feel after looking at this chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lalit, because you discussed your chart publicly, I want

> to

> > offer

> > > > > a couple of comments. Hoping that you will tolerate some

> > criticism

> > > > > from me, I will give some honest advice. Please bear with

me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have a nice chart. Marriage is difficult with

upapada

> > lagna in

> > > > > Taurus, Saturn in it and 2nd lord in 3rd with Ketu. In

> > navamsa, 7th

> > > > > lord is in marana karaka sthana. It is difficult to get

> > married.

> > > > > Fasting on Fridays and praying to Lalita Tripurasundari at

> the

> > end

> > > > > of the day before breaking the fast is recommended for

> relief.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have Saraswati yoga in rasi chart and dhanur guru in

> > lagna in

> > > > > D-24 (chart of learning). AK is in 11th house in rasi

chart.

> > You

> > > > > will become a good astrologer in time. But please note

that

> > humility

> > > > > is a great virtue. As you learn more, you will realize

that

> > this

> > > > > subject is vast and one lifetime is insufficient to master

> it.

> > I

> > > > > learnt Jyotish about 25 years back and spent a lot of my

> time

> > in the

> > > > > last 15 years learning and researching Jyotish. Though I

know

> > > > > several topics within Jyotish reasonably well, I do know

> that

> > what I

> > > > > know is much smaller than what is still there to learn. I

am

> > not

> > > > > saying this to sound humble. I know it for a fact. I

marvel

> at

> > the

> > > > > mastery of Parasara as I discover newer things.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please continue to learn Jyotish from your gurus, but

show

> > some

> > > > > humility and be less confrontational and dismissive of

> others

> > and

> > > > > less arrogant. You will become a good astrologer with Her

> > grace,

> > > > > after you develop true humility.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Spiritually, I am confident that you have had your share

of

> > > > > mystical experiences. However, I know some who made 1,000

> > times more

> > > > > progress and yet keep quiet mostly. You need to show some

> > discretion

> > > > > and keep your spiritual progress to yourself and not make

> much

> > noise

> > > > > in the public. Do not go around touting things or giving

the

> > > > > impression of touting. Please realize that there is much

> much

> > more

> > > > > to be experienced and it will come only when you develop

more

> > > > > discretion. You are destined for bigger things and please

do

> > not

> > > > > stagnate where you are now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Praises and criticism are both Her forms. Happiness and

> > sadness

> > > > > are both Her forms. Friends and enemies are both Her

forms.

> > Learned

> > > > > people and idiots are both Her forms. Knowledge and

> ignorance

> > are

> > > > > both Her forms. Love Her in Her full glory. Overcome your

> > anger and

> > > > > short temper and fill your heart with pure love for Her

and

> > all of

> > > > > Her different forms.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please let Pisces lagna and Dhanur Guru dominate your

> > personality

> > > > > and not Simha Mangala aspecting lagna. Let Saturn and Ketu

> > > > > transiting on natal Mars shut down this aspect of your

> > personality

> > > > > for ever. So much is expected from you. Please live up to

> your

> > chart

> > > > > (or atleast my judgment of it!). I sincerely hope that you

> > overcome

> > > > > your anger and hot nature, shine as a star in the Jyotish

> > world and

> > > > > also give direction to many spiritual seekers. You have it

> in

> > you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I want to make one comment on siddhis, spiritual

> experiences

> > and

> > > > > knowledge. These are not comments on anyone, but judt

generic

> > > > > comments on some sentiments I observed here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If someone has mystical experiences and visions, it does

> not

> > mean

> > > > > that the person knows everything or is a perfect person.

> While

> > > > > Brahman (field of singularity) is One, the field of

duality

> > (also

> > > > > known as Maayaa) is infinite and it is impossible to

master

> > it. If

> > > > > She gives someone access to some aspects of the Maayaa

that

> > other

> > > > > people do not have access to, She may do it because of

some

> > reason.

> > > > > Each being has a specific role to play and given the

> resources

> > > > > needed for playing that role. Some beings play their role

> > without

> > > > > ego and with a complete sense of surrender and leave the

> stage

> > > > > calmly. Some beings have ego, take their role

> > and " achievements "

> > > > > seriously and think that *they* are doing things and make

> more

> > > > > noise. The latter type have more distance to go before

> becoming

> > > > > liberated. However, She needs those types too and may

> > sometimes even

> > > > > give more so-called siddhis to the latter type.

Irrespective

> of

> > > > > which type one belongs to, the bottomline is that all the

> > knowledge

> > > > > and experience one has is Hers and given because of the

role

> > one has

> > > > > to play. No more and no less.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If a yogi has visions of a devata (deity) or other

visions

> or

> > > > > other mystical experiences, it was made possible because

> > he/she has

> > > > > a role to play and those experiences are needed for that

> role.

> > It

> > > > > absolutely does not mean that he/she is somehow great and

> > whatever

> > > > > he/she says is correct. One may master one aspect of

maayaa

> > and be

> > > > > clueless on other aspects of maayaa. Astrology and other

> > vedaangas

> > > > > are a small part of this maayaa. Not everyone with some

> > control over

> > > > > some aspects of maayaa are masters of astrology.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A true yogi neither craves for any siddhis nor does he

> > reject them

> > > > > when/if they come. Also, you cannot identify a true yogi

from

> > > > > his/her siddhis or other so-called achievements.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Only maharishis are capable of understanding Maayaa in

its

> > > > > entirety. They have zero attachment and sense of doership.

> > Their

> > > > > egos are fully killed and hence they are able to be in

sahaja

> > > > > samadhi all the time, even when walking and talking. Thus,

> they

> > > > > understand Brahman as well as the entire field of duality

> and

> > how it

> > > > > works. So they are masters of all subjects. But, we should

> not

> > > > > expect to find any maharshis in today's world. We can, of

> > course,

> > > > > expect to find a lot of advanced yogis who experience

> various

> > kinds

> > > > > of mystical visions and yet have imperfect knowledge of

many

> > aspects

> > > > > of maayaa.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sorry if you found my freewheeling 2 cents nonsensical.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > Narasimha

> > >

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Debilitation of 5th lord - to Bhaskar ji

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