Guest guest Posted November 24, 2007 Report Share Posted November 24, 2007 Dear Bhaskar ji Sorry for the delay due to time constraints. Saaji is a learned astrologer and has quoted classical references. I will share my thoughts. Whatever that is present is with a purpose.So is the case with Rahu.We may have to drop our ego and try to understand who is Rahu.In this process we may not call Rahu a robber or bomb maker.We may not teach astrology like that. If lord has created Rahu through Simhika,he alone knows the reason and we may seek and beg.Chandraditya Vimardhanam is his role.Why? Atma is identifying himself with a reflective entity of his own.As long as there is no eclipse,one will not realize his own true self.He remains in illusion - identifying himself with the reflective identity.Thus there should be some one who can come in between Atma and Mana and interrupt the continuity - illusion.Thus Rahu is the one who is helping us to realize our true self,which is bound with layers of karma bandhas.As this task is not easy ,Rahu has to test us quite often and because of that we consider him to be cruel and demonic.In reality he is not.No pacification is better than this realization.But how do we realize this.Rahu is indeed Time principle.And Sankara ,Mahadeva ,Lord Paramashiva alone is the Yogi who has transcended Time.One who has transcended Time alone will have no fear towards Time(death).As Time is an ornament around his neck,it demonstrates the above said fearlessness.Thus our prayers to Mahadeva will definitely become fruitful is my humble understanding. Ma Saraswati may be perceived without form.But as we need a limiting factor for perception,she can be seen in words and nada.Nadopasana or worship of any vidya is worship of Saraswati.Our eagerness to learn and go down to the root (Moola) of everythign is a worship of Ma Saraswati.Often we are happy playing at the surface and reach conclusions.We do have inhibitions to re-learn.Worship of Saraswati is about knowing the root. The first nakshathra in firy Rashis is ruled by ketu.Ketu is Shikhi or peackock and can be seen along with Ma Sarawati.The Moola or root in Dhanu,Ashwini the Horse symbolism and Makha in Simha - nabhi, all point to the various energy consciousness ruled by ketu - forming the firy triangle.Deva Guru,Vachaspati Brihaspatis moolatrikona also falls in Mula nakshathra ruled by Ketu.Moola Trikonas may point to the moola or shaprpened corners of the triangle.Varga in Mathematicsis square and Varga Moola is Square Root.Thus Moola is nothing but the root. Thus whenever in doubt let Lord helps us and give the courage to go to the root.We may have to re-learn waht we have learned. Brihaspati mantram will help us in getting the grace of Guru.Respecting Brahmins(Learned and Satwik souls) is also good.Striving for Satwika Jnana is also helpful. Regds Pradeep , " Saaji Bhaskaran " <saajik wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > ???? > > > 1. Brihat Jataka: > Jupiter > Indra > > Rahu > Brahma (dictum : sanivad rahu) > > > 2. BPHS: > Jupiter > Shiva > > Rahu > Specific for each dasa/antar dasa > Say, Durga. > > > 3. Prasna Marga: > Jupiter > Vishnu & Brahmins > Free feeding of Brahmins and offering of ornaments > > Rahu = Serpent God > Feeding of backward classes > > > Best regards, > > Saaji Bhaskaran > > > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> > wrote: > > > > Dear pradeepji, > > > > Please guide which God/Goddess to worship > > for Rahu pacification ? AND > > Which God/Goddess to worship for Jupiter > > pacification ? > > > > Please no other member reply this, before > > Pradeepji replies,and I reply him back. > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep " > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ms Margaret > > > > > > Thanks for the reply. > > > Here are some more thoughts which came to my mind.5th house is > also > > > defined as Vak-Sthana.As we Know Vak originates from Nabhi(Navel) > > > Region and is connected to Saraswati.That comes from mouth is > also > > > Vak but the audible form(4th order).This can be termed as Vachana > > as > > > well as Vak.Perhaps origin of Vak is from Brahma Nabhi while > > > Saraswati is manifested in 2nd.Guru is also the Karaka for the > 5th > > > house.The disciple also is represented by 5th house.Thus the > effect > > > and the Pathi can be explained from 2nd as well as 5th house. > > > > > > Regds > > > Pradeep > > > > > > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Pradeep, > > > > > > > > Thanks ever so much for this thoughtful reply, it was very kind > > of > > > you > > > > to take the time to write all that. > > > > I'm sure as you say that there is a lot more to it, there > usually > > > is:-) > > > > I did think there might be a subtle difference between Vak and > > > Vaka, > > > > but even in Valmiki's day this may have become a little > clouded. > > > > best wishes > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > - > > > > vijayadas_pradeep > > > > > > > > Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:30 PM > > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ms.Margaret > > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay due to other priorities. > > > > The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and > > hence > > > i > > > > need time. > > > > > > > > But i can give views. > > > > In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used > as > > > > synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word > > > and > > > > vachana can mean divine word as well. > > > > > > > > I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation > of > > > > Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same. > > > > > > > > But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the > > > very > > > > root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to > > > > get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work. > > > > > > > > Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads > > > mouth > > > > has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This > can > > > be > > > > loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara - > > Horse > > > is > > > > also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go > deep. > > > > Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of > > > Knowledge.One > > > > being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord. > > > > Vacha-Vachaspati. > > > > Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links > with > > > > Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also > considered > > > for > > > > Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but > > through > > > > different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha > and > > > > Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate > > > Vacha > > > > with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding > or > > > > conclusion. > > > > > > > > They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i > > > need > > > > to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the > > > answer > > > > is sufficient:-). > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Pradeep. > > > > > I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was > > > Vak, > > > > are the two the same? Vak means Vacha? > > > > > - > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM > > > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord > Rama/Vachaspati > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik > > > > > > > > > > Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to > > > > Jupiter. > > > > > Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura > > > > Guru,Vachas > > > > > pati etc are for Guru). > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > , " Marg " <margie9@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add > > > > another view. > > > > > > > > > > > > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not > > > > intended to > > > > > convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. > > Could > > > > it not > > > > > also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's > > > > vicinity > > > > > as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow > Venus > > > in > > > > the > > > > > vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is > voice, > > > not > > > > > speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't > > > > understand > > > > > the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be > significator > > > of > > > > Vak, > > > > > sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at > any > > > > evidence > > > > > for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics. > > > > > > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been > > > fully > > > > > defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that > the > > > > vedas > > > > > had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras > as > > > > used in > > > > > jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone, > > > > rather than > > > > > being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to > > > > > constellational influences? This is why I asked about the > > > merits > > > > of > > > > > the source you quoted. > > > > > > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is > it > > > > just > > > > > telling us that this is the constellation which is rising > at > > > the > > > > time > > > > > Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was > > > > considered > > > > > important in vedic times surely, and divisions of > nakshatras > > > > were a > > > > > later development. > > > > > > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also > a > > > > modern > > > > > practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who > is > > > > saying > > > > > there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27: > > > > > > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This > > > could > > > > not > > > > > be done easily as the Vedas are considered to > > be 'Apourusheya' > > > > and no > > > > > liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared > to > > > be > > > > an > > > > > imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala'' > > > > > > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the > > > source > > > > of > > > > > your quote is? > > > > > > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out > > > more > > > > than > > > > > I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by > > > > Rajagopalachari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM > > > > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Marg, > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to read your mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bad things first: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami > > > day. > > > > > This is so > > > > > > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or > > > > more ,whereas > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, > 72 > > > > > degrees- thus > > > > > > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees > of > > > a > > > > sign > > > > > but here > > > > > > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it > has > > > got > > > > to be > > > > > > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not > > > > venus. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon > > > > falls.It > > > > > starts at > > > > > > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on > till > > > 8.5 > > > > > muhurtha. As > > > > > > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there > is > > > > every > > > > > > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with > > sun > > > in > > > > > pisces and > > > > > > lagna falling in cancer > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the good things: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the > > > > cosmological > > > > > > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up > if > > I > > > > find > > > > > a spark > > > > > > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and > rama's > > > > birth, > > > > > though > > > > > > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be > > sent > > > to > > > > > Heavens > > > > > > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during > > > Rama's > > > > times. > > > > > > Please fill me up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thnks for the mail once again,. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore > > > > > > > Please would you identify the source of your > information? > > > > > > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the > > > interpretation > > > > > in, and > > > > > > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or > > > Mercury? > > > > > > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules > > > Taurus, > > > > so > > > > > Venus as > > > > > > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon. > > > > > > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, > > which > > > is > > > > > ruled by > > > > > > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. > Venus > > > > Lord of > > > > > Vak would > > > > > > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant > surely? > > > > > > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. > > Isn't > > > > abhijit > > > > > > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun > > > with > > > > the > > > > > moon's > > > > > > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing > > > > > attention to an > > > > > > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might > affect > > > the > > > > > expected usual > > > > > > > distance between sun and moon on navami? > > > > > > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of > > > Ramayana, > > > > a > > > > > brilliant > > > > > > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born > is > > > > > during the > > > > > > > creation of constellations in the southern path by > > > Trisanku, > > > > > king of the > > > > > > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers > > is > > > an > > > > > allegory of > > > > > > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini > don't > > > you > > > > think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > > > > > > > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past > > few > > > > days. > > > > > I am > > > > > > > giving below the slokas connected with > > > > > > > the birth : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1- > 18- > > 8 > > > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu > | > > > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1- > 18-9 > > > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1- > 18- > > > 10 > > > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam > > || > > > 1- > > > > 18-11 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on > > > > completion; > > > > > > > R^ituuNaam > > > > > > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= > > > then; > > > > > dvaadashe > > > > > > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= > > > chaitra > > > > month > > > > > > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star > > of > > > > the day > > > > > > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu > graheSu > > > > swa uccha > > > > > > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, > > > > positing; > > > > > karkaTe > > > > > > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= > > when > > > > > Speech's, Lord > > > > > > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= > when > > > > > raising � > > > > > > > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; > > kausalyaa= > > > > Queen > > > > > Kausalya; > > > > > > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka > > > > namaskR^itam= > > > > > by all, > > > > > > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, > > > attributes, > > > > > along with; > > > > > > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of > > Vishnu]; > > > > mahaa > > > > > bhaagam= > > > > > > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku > > dynasty, > > > > > delight of; > > > > > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, > > > armed; > > > > > rakta oSTam= > > > > > > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; > raamam= > > > > Rama > > > > > as; putram= > > > > > > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of > > Navami > > > > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > > > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > > > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to > be > > > > > vakpati. Is it > > > > > > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since > > Mercury > > > > could > > > > > not be > > > > > > > with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa > > (own) > > > or > > > > > > > uccha(exalted) > > > > > > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five > > > planets > > > > > which are in > > > > > > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus > and > > > > Saturn. > > > > > While the > > > > > > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other > > three > > > > > planets places > > > > > > > can be fixed only by discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is > in > > > > cancer on a > > > > > > > navami > > > > > > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more > > than > > > > 108 > > > > > degrees. > > > > > > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. > > Thus, > > > > the > > > > > place of > > > > > > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or > > > aries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions > > > after > > > > > hearing from > > > > > > > all of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2007 Report Share Posted November 24, 2007 Dear Shri Pradeepji, I had long forgotten this mail, Thanks for replying though. Personally I do not believe Rahu as demonic, or evil. I love Rahu for the mysterios unknown. It makes one wonder " What next " and the hope is kindled constantly. Specially because I am running Rahu Mahadasha so I cannot harbour any other feeling. Secondly Lord Vishnu has used his sword so Rahu is already immortalised. Thirdly Rahu has taken nectar so all the more. You mentioned good analogy about eclipse. Of course without Rahu, how would one know the meaning of coming out in Light from darkness. Kunti Devi also asked for unhappiness only because she could remember Krishna , otherwise how many would remember if they were well fed in all departments ? So Rahu is the pathway to spirituality is what I feel, it brings in conditions suddenly of happiness of sepearativeness too, so that when the Union comes, one realises the value of the object-subject re-unified. In fact all the planets in their superior octaves lead one to spirituality, Saturn too by producing detachment, moroseness , and dispassion, and contrarily Venus too with the creation of passion , which when fulleth to the brim, makes the native realise the futility of all, Like Raja Yayati, and puts him on the actual ordained path of Back to Godhead. I believe Pooja of Maa Saraswatiji is the best remedy in Dasha of Rahu. Because control of toungue is very important for Rahu to remain benefic, which can only be had by grace of Ma Saraswatiji. The above were of course my feelings. I am not even 1/10th learned as you are , so just take it as my expressions. Such posts by you are really wirth reading and enjoyable. Please come up more with them. best wishes, Bhaskar. , " vijayadas_pradeep " <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji > > Sorry for the delay due to time constraints. > Saaji is a learned astrologer and has quoted classical references. > > I will share my thoughts. > > Whatever that is present is with a purpose.So is the case with Rahu.We > may have to drop our ego and try to understand who is Rahu.In this > process we may not call Rahu a robber or bomb maker.We may not teach > astrology like that. > > If lord has created Rahu through Simhika,he alone knows the reason and > we may seek and beg.Chandraditya Vimardhanam is his role.Why? > Atma is identifying himself with a reflective entity of his own.As > long as there is no eclipse,one will not realize his own true self.He > remains in illusion - identifying himself with the reflective > identity.Thus there should be some one who can come in between Atma > and Mana and interrupt the continuity - illusion.Thus Rahu is the one > who is helping us to realize our true self,which is bound with layers > of karma bandhas.As this task is not easy ,Rahu has to test us quite > often and because of that we consider him to be cruel and demonic.In > reality he is not.No pacification is better than this realization.But > how do we realize this.Rahu is indeed Time principle.And Sankara > ,Mahadeva ,Lord Paramashiva alone is the Yogi who has transcended > Time.One who has transcended Time alone will have no fear towards > Time(death).As Time is an ornament around his neck,it demonstrates the > above said fearlessness.Thus our prayers to Mahadeva will definitely > become fruitful is my humble understanding. > > Ma Saraswati may be perceived without form.But as we need a limiting > factor for perception,she can be seen in words and nada.Nadopasana or > worship of any vidya is worship of Saraswati.Our eagerness to learn > and go down to the root (Moola) of everythign is a worship of Ma > Saraswati.Often we are happy playing at the surface and reach > conclusions.We do have inhibitions to re-learn.Worship of Saraswati is > about knowing the root. > > The first nakshathra in firy Rashis is ruled by ketu.Ketu is Shikhi or > peackock and can be seen along with Ma Sarawati.The Moola or root in > Dhanu,Ashwini the Horse symbolism and Makha in Simha - nabhi, all > point to the various energy consciousness ruled by ketu - forming the > firy triangle.Deva Guru,Vachaspati Brihaspatis moolatrikona also falls > in Mula nakshathra ruled by Ketu.Moola Trikonas may point to the moola > or shaprpened corners of the triangle.Varga in Mathematicsis square > and Varga Moola is Square Root.Thus Moola is nothing but the root. > > Thus whenever in doubt let Lord helps us and give the courage to go to > the root.We may have to re-learn waht we have learned. > > Brihaspati mantram will help us in getting the grace of > Guru.Respecting Brahmins(Learned and Satwik souls) is also > good.Striving for Satwika Jnana is also helpful. > > Regds > Pradeep > > > , " Saaji Bhaskaran " <saajik@> wrote: > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > ???? > > > > > > 1. Brihat Jataka: > > Jupiter > > Indra > > > > Rahu > > Brahma (dictum : sanivad rahu) > > > > > > 2. BPHS: > > Jupiter > > Shiva > > > > Rahu > > Specific for each dasa/antar dasa > > Say, Durga. > > > > > > 3. Prasna Marga: > > Jupiter > > Vishnu & Brahmins > > Free feeding of Brahmins and offering of ornaments > > > > Rahu = Serpent God > > Feeding of backward classes > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Saaji Bhaskaran > > > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear pradeepji, > > > > > > Please guide which God/Goddess to worship > > > for Rahu pacification ? AND > > > Which God/Goddess to worship for Jupiter > > > pacification ? > > > > > > Please no other member reply this, before > > > Pradeepji replies,and I reply him back. > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep " > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ms Margaret > > > > > > > > Thanks for the reply. > > > > Here are some more thoughts which came to my mind.5th house is > > also > > > > defined as Vak-Sthana.As we Know Vak originates from Nabhi (Navel) > > > > Region and is connected to Saraswati.That comes from mouth is > > also > > > > Vak but the audible form(4th order).This can be termed as Vachana > > > as > > > > well as Vak.Perhaps origin of Vak is from Brahma Nabhi while > > > > Saraswati is manifested in 2nd.Guru is also the Karaka for the > > 5th > > > > house.The disciple also is represented by 5th house.Thus the > > effect > > > > and the Pathi can be explained from 2nd as well as 5th house. > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pradeep, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks ever so much for this thoughtful reply, it was very kind > > > of > > > > you > > > > > to take the time to write all that. > > > > > I'm sure as you say that there is a lot more to it, there > > usually > > > > is:-) > > > > > I did think there might be a subtle difference between Vak and > > > > Vaka, > > > > > but even in Valmiki's day this may have become a little > > clouded. > > > > > best wishes > > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:30 PM > > > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ms.Margaret > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay due to other priorities. > > > > > The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and > > > hence > > > > i > > > > > need time. > > > > > > > > > > But i can give views. > > > > > In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used > > as > > > > > synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word > > > > and > > > > > vachana can mean divine word as well. > > > > > > > > > > I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation > > of > > > > > Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same. > > > > > > > > > > But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the > > > > very > > > > > root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to > > > > > get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work. > > > > > > > > > > Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads > > > > mouth > > > > > has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This > > can > > > > be > > > > > loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara - > > > Horse > > > > is > > > > > also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go > > deep. > > > > > Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of > > > > Knowledge.One > > > > > being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord. > > > > > Vacha-Vachaspati. > > > > > Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links > > with > > > > > Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also > > considered > > > > for > > > > > Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but > > > through > > > > > different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha > > and > > > > > Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate > > > > Vacha > > > > > with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding > > or > > > > > conclusion. > > > > > > > > > > They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i > > > > need > > > > > to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the > > > > answer > > > > > is sufficient:-). > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Pradeep. > > > > > > I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was > > > > Vak, > > > > > are the two the same? Vak means Vacha? > > > > > > - > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM > > > > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord > > Rama/Vachaspati > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik > > > > > > > > > > > > Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to > > > > > Jupiter. > > > > > > Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura > > > > > Guru,Vachas > > > > > > pati etc are for Guru). > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Marg " <margie9@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add > > > > > another view. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not > > > > > intended to > > > > > > convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. > > > Could > > > > > it not > > > > > > also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's > > > > > vicinity > > > > > > as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow > > Venus > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is > > voice, > > > > not > > > > > > speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't > > > > > understand > > > > > > the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be > > significator > > > > of > > > > > Vak, > > > > > > sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at > > any > > > > > evidence > > > > > > for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics. > > > > > > > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been > > > > fully > > > > > > defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that > > the > > > > > vedas > > > > > > had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras > > as > > > > > used in > > > > > > jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone, > > > > > rather than > > > > > > being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to > > > > > > constellational influences? This is why I asked about the > > > > merits > > > > > of > > > > > > the source you quoted. > > > > > > > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is > > it > > > > > just > > > > > > telling us that this is the constellation which is rising > > at > > > > the > > > > > time > > > > > > Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was > > > > > considered > > > > > > important in vedic times surely, and divisions of > > nakshatras > > > > > were a > > > > > > later development. > > > > > > > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also > > a > > > > > modern > > > > > > practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who > > is > > > > > saying > > > > > > there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27: > > > > > > > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This > > > > could > > > > > not > > > > > > be done easily as the Vedas are considered to > > > be 'Apourusheya' > > > > > and no > > > > > > liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared > > to > > > > be > > > > > an > > > > > > imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala'' > > > > > > > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the > > > > source > > > > > of > > > > > > your quote is? > > > > > > > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out > > > > more > > > > > than > > > > > > I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by > > > > > Rajagopalachari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM > > > > > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Marg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to read your mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bad things first: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami > > > > day. > > > > > > This is so > > > > > > > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or > > > > > more ,whereas > > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, > > 72 > > > > > > degrees- thus > > > > > > > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees > > of > > > > a > > > > > sign > > > > > > but here > > > > > > > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it > > has > > > > got > > > > > to be > > > > > > > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not > > > > > venus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon > > > > > falls.It > > > > > > starts at > > > > > > > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on > > till > > > > 8.5 > > > > > > muhurtha. As > > > > > > > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there > > is > > > > > every > > > > > > > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with > > > sun > > > > in > > > > > > pisces and > > > > > > > lagna falling in cancer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the good things: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the > > > > > cosmological > > > > > > > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up > > if > > > I > > > > > find > > > > > > a spark > > > > > > > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and > > rama's > > > > > birth, > > > > > > though > > > > > > > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be > > > sent > > > > to > > > > > > Heavens > > > > > > > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during > > > > Rama's > > > > > times. > > > > > > > Please fill me up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thnks for the mail once again,. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore > > > > > > > > Please would you identify the source of your > > information? > > > > > > > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the > > > > interpretation > > > > > > in, and > > > > > > > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or > > > > Mercury? > > > > > > > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules > > > > Taurus, > > > > > so > > > > > > Venus as > > > > > > > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon. > > > > > > > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, > > > which > > > > is > > > > > > ruled by > > > > > > > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. > > Venus > > > > > Lord of > > > > > > Vak would > > > > > > > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant > > surely? > > > > > > > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. > > > Isn't > > > > > abhijit > > > > > > > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun > > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > moon's > > > > > > > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing > > > > > > attention to an > > > > > > > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might > > affect > > > > the > > > > > > expected usual > > > > > > > > distance between sun and moon on navami? > > > > > > > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of > > > > Ramayana, > > > > > a > > > > > > brilliant > > > > > > > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born > > is > > > > > > during the > > > > > > > > creation of constellations in the southern path by > > > > Trisanku, > > > > > > king of the > > > > > > > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers > > > is > > > > an > > > > > > allegory of > > > > > > > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini > > don't > > > > you > > > > > think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > > > > > > > > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past > > > few > > > > > days. > > > > > > I am > > > > > > > > giving below the slokas connected with > > > > > > > > the birth : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > > > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1- > > 18- > > > 8 > > > > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu > > | > > > > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1- > > 18-9 > > > > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > > > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1- > > 18- > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > > > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam > > > || > > > > 1- > > > > > 18-11 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on > > > > > completion; > > > > > > > > R^ituuNaam > > > > > > > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= > > > > then; > > > > > > dvaadashe > > > > > > > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= > > > > chaitra > > > > > month > > > > > > > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star > > > of > > > > > the day > > > > > > > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu > > graheSu > > > > > swa uccha > > > > > > > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, > > > > > positing; > > > > > > karkaTe > > > > > > > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= > > > when > > > > > > Speech's, Lord > > > > > > > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= > > when > > > > > > raising � > > > > > > > > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; > > > kausalyaa= > > > > > Queen > > > > > > Kausalya; > > > > > > > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka > > > > > namaskR^itam= > > > > > > by all, > > > > > > > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, > > > > attributes, > > > > > > along with; > > > > > > > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of > > > Vishnu]; > > > > > mahaa > > > > > > bhaagam= > > > > > > > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku > > > dynasty, > > > > > > delight of; > > > > > > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, > > > > armed; > > > > > > rakta oSTam= > > > > > > > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; > > raamam= > > > > > Rama > > > > > > as; putram= > > > > > > > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of > > > Navami > > > > > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > > > > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > > > > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to > > be > > > > > > vakpati. Is it > > > > > > > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since > > > Mercury > > > > > could > > > > > > not be > > > > > > > > with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa > > > (own) > > > > or > > > > > > > > uccha(exalted) > > > > > > > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five > > > > planets > > > > > > which are in > > > > > > > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus > > and > > > > > Saturn. > > > > > > While the > > > > > > > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other > > > three > > > > > > planets places > > > > > > > > can be fixed only by discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is > > in > > > > > cancer on a > > > > > > > > navami > > > > > > > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more > > > than > > > > > 108 > > > > > > degrees. > > > > > > > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. > > > Thus, > > > > > the > > > > > > place of > > > > > > > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or > > > > aries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions > > > > after > > > > > > hearing from > > > > > > > > all of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- ---- > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.19/1106 - > > > > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > > 11/2/2007 9:46 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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