Basic principles

[Guest guest]

Dear friends of the list

 

Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from astrology.....or maybe it

throws new light on the evolution of astrological principles?

 

Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now appropriate to

say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the new divide of the country

called Pakistan was a vile attempt to resolve issues plaguing India at the

time.

Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples from Persia so

influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is so minimal on the culture

it is not even important in the light of the Brit occupation?

 

Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their homeland in India

so that peace can be restored, and the Brit invasion therefore nullified as a

result?

 

How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese background) and its other

invasions pre Brit occupation?

 

British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is American??? The

American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is Indian??

Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-one on the planet

is pure anything???

 

 

Best wishes

M

 

Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

 

''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

facts?'

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Marg,

 

''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

facts?'

 

Very well said.

 

Bible knew only history for the last 4000 years and it made a chronology of

the same. Just like indian puranas which will make trace a dynasty till

the oldest known person and then declare that his father is Manu (first

person) or brhma (ie his father's name is not known), Bible also has

declared that the father of the earliest known person is Adam.

 

This has been wrongly interpreted as the universe being 4000 years old,

which is any way nonsense.

 

But the britishers and their european stooges such as Max Mueller was so

bigotic that they tried to fit the indian history within these 4000 years.

Very funnily, they have tried doing this on the basis of language, without

knowing that Sanskrit of the Rgveda and other vedas literally remained

changeless for god knows how many ages.

 

you can differentiate between victorian english and today's english but can

you differentiate between sanskrit of my grand father's grand father's time

and my time? It remained without change, if you compare any outstanding work

on sanskrit of 21st century and that of 17th century.

 

It is really unfortunate that free Indians who want proof for every change

proposed in the dating of ancient Indian history have no arguements before

the dating proposed on a blatantly foolish surmise that universe is 4000

years old.

 

regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

98492 70729

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

hello Marg,

 

 

you are really doing great time pass of this forum.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear friends of the list

>

> Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from

astrology.....or maybe it throws new light on the evolution of

astrological principles?

>

> Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now

appropriate to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the

new divide of the country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to

resolve issues plaguing India at the time.

> Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples

from Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is

so minimal on the culture it is not even important in the light of

the Brit occupation?

>

> Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their

homeland in India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit

invasion therefore nullified as a result?

>

> How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese background)

and its other invasions pre Brit occupation?

>

> British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is

American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is

Indian??

> Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-one

on the planet is pure anything???

>

>

> Best wishes

> M

>

> Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

>

> ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British

rule in

> India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture,

religion

> and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of

questioning

> our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have

the

> facts?'

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kishore,

 

Very well said.

On top of what you said, here are my two cents.

 

We are now questioning what sages have said ages ago. WHAT A SHAMEFUL

SITUATION WE ARE IN? This is all one can expect, when approaching

astrology without spirituality. WHatever sages have said they said

with their YOGA DRISHTI, which they obtained through deep penance for

several thousands of years. What kind of YOGA DRISHTI we have these

days, to question the sages quotes? Sages have given the complete

planetary system's details with their yoga drishti, ages ago, when

none of the today's technology tools existed. Is this thought of

questioning not corruption?

 

The sages who gave us the science are devotees of Lord VISHNU. How

many of astrologers of today (irrespective of ethnic background)

acknowledge that the sages have equated all the 9 planets as

equivalent to the 9 incarnations of Lord VISHNU? of these 9

incarnations of Vishnu Lord Rama is one of them, who represents the

SUN in the planetary system. Now IT IS SHAMEFUL WE ARE DEBATING ON

THE BIRTH OF LORD RAMA FOR SEVERAL WEEKS IN A SHAMEFUL WAY. That

means we are questioning the SUN itself in the planetary system. AND

WE ARE TALKING OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY? What kind of Vedic astrology we

are talking here?

 

Are we talking vedic astrology or a kind of Khichedi (a mixed

vegetable curry mixed with rice)?

 

Sun, means Surya, is also Surya Narayana, which means he is himself

representing Lord Vishnu. One who cannot understand the philosophy of

the 9 incarnations of Lord Vishnu, cannot understand the vedic

astrology concepts. As I said earlier, they come up with all sorts of

theories to support their way of understanding of vedic astrology.

 

Best regards,

Satya S Kolachina

 

, " kishore patnaik "

<kishorepatnaik09 wrote:

>

> Dear Marg,

>

> ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule

in

> India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

> and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

> our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

> facts?'

>

> Very well said.

>

> Bible knew only history for the last 4000 years and it made a

chronology of

> the same. Just like indian puranas which will make trace a dynasty

till

> the oldest known person and then declare that his father is Manu

(first

> person) or brhma (ie his father's name is not known), Bible also has

> declared that the father of the earliest known person is Adam.

>

> This has been wrongly interpreted as the universe being 4000 years

old,

> which is any way nonsense.

>

> But the britishers and their european stooges such as Max Mueller

was so

> bigotic that they tried to fit the indian history within these 4000

years.

> Very funnily, they have tried doing this on the basis of language,

without

> knowing that Sanskrit of the Rgveda and other vedas literally

remained

> changeless for god knows how many ages.

>

> you can differentiate between victorian english and today's english

but can

> you differentiate between sanskrit of my grand father's grand

father's time

> and my time? It remained without change, if you compare any

outstanding work

> on sanskrit of 21st century and that of 17th century.

>

> It is really unfortunate that free Indians who want proof for every

change

> proposed in the dating of ancient Indian history have no arguements

before

> the dating proposed on a blatantly foolish surmise that universe

is 4000

> years old.

>

> regards,

>

> Kishore patnaik

> 98492 70729

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Tarun,

 

Please understand that time is very valuable thing in life; we should

not be prepared to pass time like that; at least I am not prepared

for that.

 

Regards,

Satya Sai Kolachina

 

, " Tarun " <tarun.virgo wrote:

>

> hello Marg,

>

>

> you are really doing great time pass of this forum.

>

> Regards,

>

> Tarun

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear friends of the list

> >

> > Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from

> astrology.....or maybe it throws new light on the evolution of

> astrological principles?

> >

> > Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now

> appropriate to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the

> new divide of the country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to

> resolve issues plaguing India at the time.

> > Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples

> from Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is

> so minimal on the culture it is not even important in the light of

> the Brit occupation?

> >

> > Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their

> homeland in India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit

> invasion therefore nullified as a result?

> >

> > How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese

background)

> and its other invasions pre Brit occupation?

> >

> > British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is

> American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is

> Indian??

> > Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-

one

> on the planet is pure anything???

> >

> >

> > Best wishes

> > M

> >

> > Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

> >

> > ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British

> rule in

> > India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> > corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture,

> religion

> > and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of

> questioning

> > our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> > questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have

> the

> > facts?'

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Satya ji,

 

you are Absolutely correct. thats why i said Marg that she is doing

good time pass use of this forum.

 

She just write some lines, and we all start to respond to her.....

 

Warm Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Satya Sai Kolachina "

<skolachi wrote:

>

> Dear Sri Tarun,

>

> Please understand that time is very valuable thing in life; we

should

> not be prepared to pass time like that; at least I am not prepared

> for that.

>

> Regards,

> Satya Sai Kolachina

>

> , " Tarun " <tarun.virgo@> wrote:

> >

> > hello Marg,

> >

> >

> > you are really doing great time pass of this forum.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Tarun

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear friends of the list

> > >

> > > Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from

> > astrology.....or maybe it throws new light on the evolution of

> > astrological principles?

> > >

> > > Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it

now

> > appropriate to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to

the

> > new divide of the country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to

> > resolve issues plaguing India at the time.

> > > Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of

peoples

> > from Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which

is

> > so minimal on the culture it is not even important in the light

of

> > the Brit occupation?

> > >

> > > Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their

> > homeland in India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit

> > invasion therefore nullified as a result?

> > >

> > > How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese

> background)

> > and its other invasions pre Brit occupation?

> > >

> > > British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly

is

> > American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is

> > Indian??

> > > Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-

> one

> > on the planet is pure anything???

> > >

> > >

> > > Best wishes

> > > M

> > >

> > > Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

> > >

> > > ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British

> > rule in

> > > India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> > > corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture,

> > religion

> > > and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of

> > questioning

> > > our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> > > questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really

have

> > the

> > > facts?'

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Kishore,

 

I think Isaac Newton's chronology also followed the tradition of dating

according to many biblical events and references around in his day, though at

least he wasn't so prejudiced against astrology that he completely dismissed it

or leave it out of his work, as did many other historians.

I don't think it is just Brit Kings and their wars which have managed to wipe

out important historical evidence. History shows successive regimes have

contributed to the decimation of essential knowledge, whether it is consistent

internecine strife pre 4000 bce in Asia, or the invasions of South America and

Peru or Africa. This was the nature of the role of Emperor ,Raj and ruler in

ancient times. It was the role of the scribe or journalist to please the ruler

by recording HIS version of reality, rather than actual facts. Of course the

recorder/scribe/journalist is going to report from the political advantage of

the ruler of the day, even if it means writing using the language of the ruler

of the day.

No-one yet knows why the Mayans left their towns and cities, and much of their

astronomical and astrological knowledge has been destroyed by invasion also.

Even in Europe there is very little known of the ancient druids who were priest

astrologers, though their astro monuments still dominate horizons.

However, all cultures share the story of the great flood, so perhaps at the end

of the day it isn't one race, tribe or culture pre 4000 bce which swept away the

historical heritage, but global disasters caused by interplanetary influences.

best wishes

M

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

kishore patnaik

Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:50 AM

Re: Basic principles

 

 

Dear Marg,

 

''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

facts?'

 

Very well said.

 

Bible knew only history for the last 4000 years and it made a chronology of

the same. Just like indian puranas which will make trace a dynasty till

the oldest known person and then declare that his father is Manu (first

person) or brhma (ie his father's name is not known), Bible also has

declared that the father of the earliest known person is Adam.

 

This has been wrongly interpreted as the universe being 4000 years old,

which is any way nonsense.

 

But the britishers and their european stooges such as Max Mueller was so

bigotic that they tried to fit the indian history within these 4000 years.

Very funnily, they have tried doing this on the basis of language, without

knowing that Sanskrit of the Rgveda and other vedas literally remained

changeless for god knows how many ages.

 

you can differentiate between victorian english and today's english but can

you differentiate between sanskrit of my grand father's grand father's time

and my time? It remained without change, if you compare any outstanding work

on sanskrit of 21st century and that of 17th century.

 

It is really unfortunate that free Indians who want proof for every change

proposed in the dating of ancient Indian history have no arguements before

the dating proposed on a blatantly foolish surmise that universe is 4000

years old.

 

regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

98492 70729

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Tarun

 

I'm not sure what you are saying, but I do know that like myself people respond

when they have time, or ignore what they are not interested in.

What other way is there to contribute to lists do you think?

best wishes

M

 

 

-

Tarun

Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:03 AM

Re: Basic principles

 

 

hello Marg,

 

you are really doing great time pass of this forum.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear friends of the list

>

> Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from

astrology.....or maybe it throws new light on the evolution of

astrological principles?

>

> Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now

appropriate to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the

new divide of the country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to

resolve issues plaguing India at the time.

> Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples

from Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is

so minimal on the culture it is not even important in the light of

the Brit occupation?

>

> Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their

homeland in India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit

invasion therefore nullified as a result?

>

> How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese background)

and its other invasions pre Brit occupation?

>

> British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is

American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is

Indian??

> Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-one

on the planet is pure anything???

>

>

> Best wishes

> M

>

> Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

>

> ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British

rule in

> India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture,

religion

> and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of

questioning

> our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have

the

> facts?'

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Marg

 

The history is corrupted everywhere. It is corrupted even in countries which

have not been invaded. One of the biggest corruption has come by way of

aggressive " religions " . Church is known to corrupt the interpretations of

texts of different religions and subject other religion's followers to

extreme punishments. Nowadays, it is the turn of the Muslims to do so. This

is mainly done to remain popular by showing others down and by extensive use

force and bribery. Similarly, to maintain political power, many political

leaders and groups subject the History to its shameful illusions. Like it is

said, had Hitler won the war, history till 1945 would have been very

different from what it is now.

 

Our scriptures especially the Vedas were preserved through lineage of

Master-Student relationships and through Maths. The same cannot be said of

Astrology. Astrology, considered as Devil worship by Church and by others,

was subject to maximum destruction. Many of the texts were destroyed or

corrupted.

 

When the Greek invaded India, it was Chanakya who stopped the cultural

invasion through his band of student warriors led by the great Chandragupta

Maurya. Similarly, we have had great teachers, self realized saints, and

others who have brought back our culture to its glory time and again. If you

see the fight for freedom and the Satyagraha, it has its roots in our

culture, and it was done to bring back our way of life.

 

The division of country is a living proof of the separative and dangerous

tendencies of aggressive religions. All those who live in Pakistan were once

Hindus. They were converted by force or by greed of gains by the Mughal

rulers. Those brothers were made to hate their homeland so much so as to

separate from it. Furthermore, even today there is hatred being generated

against their own brothers in India. So if you ask me who is a Pakistani - I

would say he is Hindu who has forgotten himself and believes himself to a

part of an alien culture and thinks of killing his own brothers in India. So

the corruption has occurred, but, we must know the cause of it.

 

Similarly, one day one fellow indian made fun of Indians and sent an email

to me too - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I wrote a reply to him, which I

reproduce below and perhaps it can answer " Who is an Indian " . This was in

year 1999 or 2000. Please pardon the typos and grammar errors as I wrote it

in one go that time. Reproducing the exact version.

 

*Just Be an Indian*

 

*Somebody sent me an e-mail. The question asked was " Are you proud to be

an Indian? " The contents of the e-mail were a pun on Indianness.*

 

*This e-mail was doing circles all over the world. It was then decided by me

to clear things up with many persons who are not aware of their culture

which is born out of fine Indian wisdom. I reproduce my answer.*

 

The question asked was - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I modify this

question and ask - " Are you an Indian? " Because if you are an Indian then it

is enough. You do not need pride then. You are so inspired from within that

you do not need the crutches of pride. Being an Indian is enough.

 

The problem with many so called Indians is that they are not Indians at all.

Indian culture and its vastness, probably, cannot enter their narrow and

self-centered minds. Knowing our culture is enough. It engrains such

Indianness that even by living a whole life time in foreign lands it does

not get eroded.

 

 

 

*The Fundamental Principle*

 

Our culture is such that it is based on one principle - " Tat Twam Asi "

(Sanskrit). It is a universal principle. It means " That thou Art " meaning

YOU ARE THAT. It means that whatever you are seeking to become is already

you.

 

A little explanation will help us understand this. A man surely wants two

things in life - Securities (Artha) and Pleasure (Kama). This feelings are

there because one feels insecure and unpleasant. In other words " I lack

security " and " I lack pleasures " . To gain securities one has to study and

work hard but a person always found lacking. Moreover a person wants to have

pleasures. For this he needs to spend his securities. Therefore, your

efforts towards securities bring a loss in pleasures and your efforts

towards pleasures bring a loss in securities. Therefore, you are always

found lacking. What is the way out of this vicious circle? Our wise men

never did say that you leave pleasures and Securities because they

identified these as goals. But they also were wise enough to know that these

were not goals in themselves because they did not satisfy you.

 

Please think, do you want money for money's sake or for your own sake? It is

for your own sake that you want pleasures and securities. Even when you

sacrifice these for some other person then it for your own sake that you are

following Dharma (the third human pursuit). So all three pursuits are

pursuits for oneself. Only to remove the feeling that " I lack " . Our saints

and sages recognized that the problem was not in lacking securities or

pleasure but the problem was in this wrong notion that " I lack " .

 

I ask you a question - How much happiness do you want in life? Your answer

cannot be anything less than infinite. It is your desire to have infinite

happiness but the efforts are only put to pursue finite objects. Finite +

Finite is not equal to Infinite. Only in being infinity that one gains

infinite happiness. That infinite is you. So what you pursue is you. This is

the meaning of the statement TAT TWAM ASI.

 

Now, your question is - How can you say that I am Infinite? You give your

logic - When I am in office I am not at home. Infact, when I am in chair I

am not on the table. So I am a limited being. Your statement is incorrect.

 

This is your reply.

 

I can also see this logic and still I say that you are Anantam (Infinite).

Please read carefully:

 

Anything natural is not a matter for complaint. When your eyes see

perfectly, do you complain to an eye specialist? No, you do not. You only

complain when your eyes do not see properly, say, when a dust particle goes

in your eye. Because vision is natural to eyes so there is no complaint in

case it is perfect vision. You only complain in case of unnatural things.

Similarly, you view yourself. You complain that you lack. It means this

notion that I lack is some foreign notion to You. " I lack " is limitedness.

So limitlessness is your nature. Similarly, can you stand ignorance? No. you

cannot so you natural state is Knowledge. That is why our spiritual

scientists say that you are Sat (existence), Chit (Knowledge) and Ananda

(limitlessness). This is your true state.

 

Such a person who recognize this within is called a God -Realized person.

Because whom we call as God is nothing but All knowing (Gnanam), All

Existence (Sat) and All Pervading (Anandam). Hence, it is only Indian

culture which recognizes correctly the very man as the very God. It is not

your body or mind which you are aware of as limited but it is the AWARENESS

itself which is not bound by anything.

 

This principle shows in our culture. See for yourself:

 

*Salient Features:*

 

· We can pray to God in any manner we like through any object or

animal or tree. It is not idol worship. It is a subtle recognition that all

is nothing but God. God being infinite pervades everything. In fact, when we

pray to the stone in front of us, we do not say " Hey stone! please fulfill

our wishes! " ...We say " Hey God! Please fulfill our wishes! " This shows

clearly how grand our culture is. Foolish people think that praying to a

stone is nonsense. Nobody in India prays to stone we only pray to the Lord

in the stone and as the stone.

 

· We put Tilak on our forehead. Why? It is because we are

auspiciousness itself. The tilak represents auspiciousness. Nothing but the

Lord is auspicious and hence we again recognize the Lord in us as us.

 

· We do Namaskar to everybody. Why? Because we recognize that the

Lord is there in all as all.

 

· In South, each person calls unknown people as " Swami " . Why?

Because they recognize the Lord is there is all as all.

 

· Our Music and our form of Dances are depicting the same. They are

expressions of the same knowledge.

 

· We are probably the only country which is truly secular because we

understand that any person from any caste and creed can pray to the Lord in

any way it is acceptable, for Lord only is.

 

 

 

There are many more such principles. The list is endless. I can go on and on

but for the intelligent only an indication is enough.

 

We do not stop only at culture and religion.

 

Our Vedic Mathematics is such that one student studied it and is beating the

fastest computers in the world in calculating complex mathematical problems.

She is Shakuntala Devi. There is a book called " Vedic Mathematics " . It is

published by Motilal BanarasiDass and written by Sri Sankaracharya Bharati

Krishna Tirthaji Maharaj. It says in 8 1/2 months by studying only 2 hours a

week one can finish the entire course of Mathematics upto Ph.D. level by

only a average 15 year old student! You know where this Mathematics has come

from - from the Atharvana Veda in an appendix in only 16 mantras. So, we did

not only give the world the idea of zero and infinity but also of the entire

mathematics. Excellent research is going on in Germany and Britain on Vedic

Mathematics as also in Benaras Hindu University.

 

Our understanding of our Solar system has always been better than all.

Nearly 4000 years ago we knew the exact motion of all these planets and

their relation to the life forms and Natural Forces on Earth. Our Jyotish,

knew exactly how to calculate the position of the planets and relate it to a

person's life. They knew how each event affects so many other events. A

principle which Physics is discovering now. If you go through, " The history

of time " by Stephen Hawking this principle of a Light Cone in Time and Space

dimension is explained.

 

Our Jyotish Scientists were not stupid they knew exactly what were their

subject's limitations and uses. They were not blind believers but scientific

exponents.

 

Sanskrit the word means Cultured. Sanskriti comes from this root. So the

word Culture and its meaning has come from India. The world learnt it from

India. Sanskrit the language is called the mother if all languages because

it contains all possible sounds in its script. In fact so structured is this

language that other languages appear only very ordinary and common in front

of it. So well defined are its rules that the computer world it taking to

Panini's Grammer to sort out their programming problems.

 

Einstein's theory that matter is not a real thing but an appearance because

it is only energy was always given in the Veda. The Veda has always said it

and proved it that the world is only an appearance and not a Reality. Veda

recognized that the perceptions can be faulty.

 

Even as far as Reality is concerned it is us that know it. The whole

scientific community can never know it.

 

India despite being very powerful at times has never tried to attack and

conquer others. It has been only foreigners doing that to India. It is not

because Indian Rulers were meek but because our wisdom says live and let

live. Do not eat up other person's land. It is our value. It requires more

strength not to attack and conquer when you are powerful then to do so. For

uphold of Dharma people have laid their lives. Even in front of death they

have not buckled. Infact, such is our value system that whenever we have

cared to follow it - it has been a golden period in history and whenever we

have flouted it we have been made as slaves.

 

But we have always recognized the same values again and again and

established Dharma. I see the current situation as slightly equal to our

earlier conditions but I have full faith in our Indianness. I have full

faith in the Cultural Values. I have full faith in the wisdom of this land

as you have faith that the day will follow the night.

 

Our Indianness is too deep-rooted to be shattered. It has stood the test of

time. It had stood trials and tribulations. It will stand this meek

corruption and politics also.

 

" Satyamev Jayate " - Truth Prevails is not only on our emblem but is from the

Veda. Uphold the " Satyam " and see it prevail.

 

You see, I do not need to be proud, I only have to be an Indian. And being

an Indian means a personification of its culture.

 

 

 

Thanks and Regards

 

Bharat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Nov 17, 2007 4:47 AM, Marg <margie9 wrote:

 

> Dear friends of the list

>

> Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from astrology.....or

> maybe it throws new light on the evolution of astrological principles?

>

> Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now appropriate

> to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the new divide of the

> country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to resolve issues plaguing India

> at the time.

> Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples from

> Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is so minimal on

> the culture it is not even important in the light of the Brit occupation?

>

> Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their homeland in

> India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit invasion therefore

> nullified as a result?

>

> How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese background) and its

> other invasions pre Brit occupation?

>

> British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is

> American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is Indian??

> Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-one on the

> planet is pure anything???

>

> Best wishes

> M

>

> Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

>

> ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

> India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

> and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

> our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

> facts?'

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Bharat,

 

Best possible description and excellent presentation. We need nothing

else to dicuss or debate.

 

Best regards,

Satya Sai Kolachina

 

, " Bharat - Hindu Astrology "

<astrologyhindu wrote:

>

> Namaste Sri Marg

>

> The history is corrupted everywhere. It is corrupted even in

countries which

> have not been invaded. One of the biggest corruption has come by

way of

> aggressive " religions " . Church is known to corrupt the

interpretations of

> texts of different religions and subject other religion's followers

to

> extreme punishments. Nowadays, it is the turn of the Muslims to do

so. This

> is mainly done to remain popular by showing others down and by

extensive use

> force and bribery. Similarly, to maintain political power, many

political

> leaders and groups subject the History to its shameful illusions.

Like it is

> said, had Hitler won the war, history till 1945 would have been very

> different from what it is now.

>

> Our scriptures especially the Vedas were preserved through lineage

of

> Master-Student relationships and through Maths. The same cannot be

said of

> Astrology. Astrology, considered as Devil worship by Church and by

others,

> was subject to maximum destruction. Many of the texts were

destroyed or

> corrupted.

>

> When the Greek invaded India, it was Chanakya who stopped the

cultural

> invasion through his band of student warriors led by the great

Chandragupta

> Maurya. Similarly, we have had great teachers, self realized

saints, and

> others who have brought back our culture to its glory time and

again. If you

> see the fight for freedom and the Satyagraha, it has its roots in

our

> culture, and it was done to bring back our way of life.

>

> The division of country is a living proof of the separative and

dangerous

> tendencies of aggressive religions. All those who live in Pakistan

were once

> Hindus. They were converted by force or by greed of gains by the

Mughal

> rulers. Those brothers were made to hate their homeland so much so

as to

> separate from it. Furthermore, even today there is hatred being

generated

> against their own brothers in India. So if you ask me who is a

Pakistani - I

> would say he is Hindu who has forgotten himself and believes

himself to a

> part of an alien culture and thinks of killing his own brothers in

India. So

> the corruption has occurred, but, we must know the cause of it.

>

> Similarly, one day one fellow indian made fun of Indians and sent

an email

> to me too - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I wrote a reply to

him, which I

> reproduce below and perhaps it can answer " Who is an Indian " . This

was in

> year 1999 or 2000. Please pardon the typos and grammar errors as I

wrote it

> in one go that time. Reproducing the exact version.

>

> *Just Be an Indian*

>

> *Somebody sent me an e-mail. The question asked was " Are you

proud to be

> an Indian? " The contents of the e-mail were a pun on Indianness.*

>

> *This e-mail was doing circles all over the world. It was then

decided by me

> to clear things up with many persons who are not aware of their

culture

> which is born out of fine Indian wisdom. I reproduce my answer.*

>

> The question asked was - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I modify

this

> question and ask - " Are you an Indian? " Because if you are an

Indian then it

> is enough. You do not need pride then. You are so inspired from

within that

> you do not need the crutches of pride. Being an Indian is enough.

>

> The problem with many so called Indians is that they are not

Indians at all.

> Indian culture and its vastness, probably, cannot enter their

narrow and

> self-centered minds. Knowing our culture is enough. It engrains such

> Indianness that even by living a whole life time in foreign lands

it does

> not get eroded.

>

>

>

> *The Fundamental Principle*

>

> Our culture is such that it is based on one principle - " Tat Twam

Asi "

> (Sanskrit). It is a universal principle. It means " That thou Art "

meaning

> YOU ARE THAT. It means that whatever you are seeking to become is

already

> you.

>

> A little explanation will help us understand this. A man surely

wants two

> things in life - Securities (Artha) and Pleasure (Kama). This

feelings are

> there because one feels insecure and unpleasant. In other words " I

lack

> security " and " I lack pleasures " . To gain securities one has to

study and

> work hard but a person always found lacking. Moreover a person

wants to have

> pleasures. For this he needs to spend his securities. Therefore,

your

> efforts towards securities bring a loss in pleasures and your

efforts

> towards pleasures bring a loss in securities. Therefore, you are

always

> found lacking. What is the way out of this vicious circle? Our wise

men

> never did say that you leave pleasures and Securities because they

> identified these as goals. But they also were wise enough to know

that these

> were not goals in themselves because they did not satisfy you.

>

> Please think, do you want money for money's sake or for your own

sake? It is

> for your own sake that you want pleasures and securities. Even when

you

> sacrifice these for some other person then it for your own sake

that you are

> following Dharma (the third human pursuit). So all three pursuits

are

> pursuits for oneself. Only to remove the feeling that " I lack " . Our

saints

> and sages recognized that the problem was not in lacking securities

or

> pleasure but the problem was in this wrong notion that " I lack " .

>

> I ask you a question - How much happiness do you want in life? Your

answer

> cannot be anything less than infinite. It is your desire to have

infinite

> happiness but the efforts are only put to pursue finite objects.

Finite +

> Finite is not equal to Infinite. Only in being infinity that one

gains

> infinite happiness. That infinite is you. So what you pursue is

you. This is

> the meaning of the statement TAT TWAM ASI.

>

> Now, your question is - How can you say that I am Infinite? You

give your

> logic - When I am in office I am not at home. Infact, when I am in

chair I

> am not on the table. So I am a limited being. Your statement is

incorrect.

>

> This is your reply.

>

> I can also see this logic and still I say that you are Anantam

(Infinite).

> Please read carefully:

>

> Anything natural is not a matter for complaint. When your eyes see

> perfectly, do you complain to an eye specialist? No, you do not.

You only

> complain when your eyes do not see properly, say, when a dust

particle goes

> in your eye. Because vision is natural to eyes so there is no

complaint in

> case it is perfect vision. You only complain in case of unnatural

things.

> Similarly, you view yourself. You complain that you lack. It means

this

> notion that I lack is some foreign notion to You. " I lack " is

limitedness.

> So limitlessness is your nature. Similarly, can you stand

ignorance? No. you

> cannot so you natural state is Knowledge. That is why our spiritual

> scientists say that you are Sat (existence), Chit (Knowledge) and

Ananda

> (limitlessness). This is your true state.

>

> Such a person who recognize this within is called a God -Realized

person.

> Because whom we call as God is nothing but All knowing (Gnanam), All

> Existence (Sat) and All Pervading (Anandam). Hence, it is only

Indian

> culture which recognizes correctly the very man as the very God. It

is not

> your body or mind which you are aware of as limited but it is the

AWARENESS

> itself which is not bound by anything.

>

> This principle shows in our culture. See for yourself:

>

> *Salient Features:*

>

> · We can pray to God in any manner we like through any

object or

> animal or tree. It is not idol worship. It is a subtle recognition

that all

> is nothing but God. God being infinite pervades everything. In

fact, when we

> pray to the stone in front of us, we do not say " Hey stone! please

fulfill

> our wishes! " ...We say " Hey God! Please fulfill our wishes! " This

shows

> clearly how grand our culture is. Foolish people think that praying

to a

> stone is nonsense. Nobody in India prays to stone we only pray to

the Lord

> in the stone and as the stone.

>

> · We put Tilak on our forehead. Why? It is because we are

> auspiciousness itself. The tilak represents auspiciousness. Nothing

but the

> Lord is auspicious and hence we again recognize the Lord in us as

us.

>

> · We do Namaskar to everybody. Why? Because we recognize

that the

> Lord is there in all as all.

>

> · In South, each person calls unknown people as " Swami " .

Why?

> Because they recognize the Lord is there is all as all.

>

> · Our Music and our form of Dances are depicting the same.

They are

> expressions of the same knowledge.

>

> · We are probably the only country which is truly secular

because we

> understand that any person from any caste and creed can pray to the

Lord in

> any way it is acceptable, for Lord only is.

>

>

>

> There are many more such principles. The list is endless. I can go

on and on

> but for the intelligent only an indication is enough.

>

> We do not stop only at culture and religion.

>

> Our Vedic Mathematics is such that one student studied it and is

beating the

> fastest computers in the world in calculating complex mathematical

problems.

> She is Shakuntala Devi. There is a book called " Vedic Mathematics " .

It is

> published by Motilal BanarasiDass and written by Sri Sankaracharya

Bharati

> Krishna Tirthaji Maharaj. It says in 8 1/2 months by studying only

2 hours a

> week one can finish the entire course of Mathematics upto Ph.D.

level by

> only a average 15 year old student! You know where this Mathematics

has come

> from - from the Atharvana Veda in an appendix in only 16 mantras.

So, we did

> not only give the world the idea of zero and infinity but also of

the entire

> mathematics. Excellent research is going on in Germany and Britain

on Vedic

> Mathematics as also in Benaras Hindu University.

>

> Our understanding of our Solar system has always been better than

all.

> Nearly 4000 years ago we knew the exact motion of all these planets

and

> their relation to the life forms and Natural Forces on Earth. Our

Jyotish,

> knew exactly how to calculate the position of the planets and

relate it to a

> person's life. They knew how each event affects so many other

events. A

> principle which Physics is discovering now. If you go through, " The

history

> of time " by Stephen Hawking this principle of a Light Cone in Time

and Space

> dimension is explained.

>

> Our Jyotish Scientists were not stupid they knew exactly what were

their

> subject's limitations and uses. They were not blind believers but

scientific

> exponents.

>

> Sanskrit the word means Cultured. Sanskriti comes from this root.

So the

> word Culture and its meaning has come from India. The world learnt

it from

> India. Sanskrit the language is called the mother if all languages

because

> it contains all possible sounds in its script. In fact so

structured is this

> language that other languages appear only very ordinary and common

in front

> of it. So well defined are its rules that the computer world it

taking to

> Panini's Grammer to sort out their programming problems.

>

> Einstein's theory that matter is not a real thing but an appearance

because

> it is only energy was always given in the Veda. The Veda has always

said it

> and proved it that the world is only an appearance and not a

Reality. Veda

> recognized that the perceptions can be faulty.

>

> Even as far as Reality is concerned it is us that know it. The whole

> scientific community can never know it.

>

> India despite being very powerful at times has never tried to

attack and

> conquer others. It has been only foreigners doing that to India. It

is not

> because Indian Rulers were meek but because our wisdom says live

and let

> live. Do not eat up other person's land. It is our value. It

requires more

> strength not to attack and conquer when you are powerful then to do

so. For

> uphold of Dharma people have laid their lives. Even in front of

death they

> have not buckled. Infact, such is our value system that whenever we

have

> cared to follow it - it has been a golden period in history and

whenever we

> have flouted it we have been made as slaves.

>

> But we have always recognized the same values again and again and

> established Dharma. I see the current situation as slightly equal

to our

> earlier conditions but I have full faith in our Indianness. I have

full

> faith in the Cultural Values. I have full faith in the wisdom of

this land

> as you have faith that the day will follow the night.

>

> Our Indianness is too deep-rooted to be shattered. It has stood the

test of

> time. It had stood trials and tribulations. It will stand this meek

> corruption and politics also.

>

> " Satyamev Jayate " - Truth Prevails is not only on our emblem but is

from the

> Veda. Uphold the " Satyam " and see it prevail.

>

> You see, I do not need to be proud, I only have to be an Indian.

And being

> an Indian means a personification of its culture.

>

>

>

> Thanks and Regards

>

> Bharat

>

On Nov 17, 2007 4:47 AM, Marg <margie9 wrote:

>

> > Dear friends of the list

> >

> > Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from

astrology.....or

> > maybe it throws new light on the evolution of astrological

principles?

> >

> > Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now

appropriate

> > to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the new divide

of the

> > country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to resolve issues

plaguing India

> > at the time.

> > Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples

from

> > Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is so

minimal on

> > the culture it is not even important in the light of the Brit

occupation?

> >

> > Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their

homeland in

> > India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit invasion

therefore

> > nullified as a result?

> >

> > How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese

background) and its

> > other invasions pre Brit occupation?

> >

> > British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is

> > American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is

Indian??

> > Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-one

on the

> > planet is pure anything???

> >

> > Best wishes

> > M

> >

> > Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

> >

> > ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British

rule in

> > India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> > corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture,

religion

> > and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of

questioning

> > our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> > questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have

the

> > facts?'

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear bharat,

 

wonderful reply though one snag.

 

Our text books following the dictums of British make Alexander

contemporary with Chandra gupta maurya. We are following the same. As

such, this does not seem to be following our traditional history,

which is given in puranas.

 

Otherwise, I appreciate your sentiments.

 

Kishore patnaik

98492 70729

 

On 11/17/07, Bharat - Hindu Astrology <astrologyhindu wrote:

> Namaste Sri Marg

>

> The history is corrupted everywhere. It is corrupted even in countries which

> have not been invaded. One of the biggest corruption has come by way of

> aggressive " religions " . Church is known to corrupt the interpretations of

> texts of different religions and subject other religion's followers to

> extreme punishments. Nowadays, it is the turn of the Muslims to do so. This

> is mainly done to remain popular by showing others down and by extensive use

> force and bribery. Similarly, to maintain political power, many political

> leaders and groups subject the History to its shameful illusions. Like it is

> said, had Hitler won the war, history till 1945 would have been very

> different from what it is now.

>

> Our scriptures especially the Vedas were preserved through lineage of

> Master-Student relationships and through Maths. The same cannot be said of

> Astrology. Astrology, considered as Devil worship by Church and by others,

> was subject to maximum destruction. Many of the texts were destroyed or

> corrupted.

>

> When the Greek invaded India, it was Chanakya who stopped the cultural

> invasion through his band of student warriors led by the great Chandragupta

> Maurya. Similarly, we have had great teachers, self realized saints, and

> others who have brought back our culture to its glory time and again. If you

> see the fight for freedom and the Satyagraha, it has its roots in our

> culture, and it was done to bring back our way of life.

>

> The division of country is a living proof of the separative and dangerous

> tendencies of aggressive religions. All those who live in Pakistan were once

> Hindus. They were converted by force or by greed of gains by the Mughal

> rulers. Those brothers were made to hate their homeland so much so as to

> separate from it. Furthermore, even today there is hatred being generated

> against their own brothers in India. So if you ask me who is a Pakistani - I

> would say he is Hindu who has forgotten himself and believes himself to a

> part of an alien culture and thinks of killing his own brothers in India. So

> the corruption has occurred, but, we must know the cause of it.

>

> Similarly, one day one fellow indian made fun of Indians and sent an email

> to me too - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I wrote a reply to him, which I

> reproduce below and perhaps it can answer " Who is an Indian " . This was in

> year 1999 or 2000. Please pardon the typos and grammar errors as I wrote it

> in one go that time. Reproducing the exact version.

>

> *Just Be an Indian*

>

> *Somebody sent me an e-mail. The question asked was " Are you proud to be

> an Indian? " The contents of the e-mail were a pun on Indianness.*

>

> *This e-mail was doing circles all over the world. It was then decided by me

> to clear things up with many persons who are not aware of their culture

> which is born out of fine Indian wisdom. I reproduce my answer.*

>

> The question asked was - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I modify this

> question and ask - " Are you an Indian? " Because if you are an Indian then it

> is enough. You do not need pride then. You are so inspired from within that

> you do not need the crutches of pride. Being an Indian is enough.

>

> The problem with many so called Indians is that they are not Indians at all.

> Indian culture and its vastness, probably, cannot enter their narrow and

> self-centered minds. Knowing our culture is enough. It engrains such

> Indianness that even by living a whole life time in foreign lands it does

> not get eroded.

>

>

>

> *The Fundamental Principle*

>

> Our culture is such that it is based on one principle - " Tat Twam Asi "

> (Sanskrit). It is a universal principle. It means " That thou Art " meaning

> YOU ARE THAT. It means that whatever you are seeking to become is already

> you.

>

> A little explanation will help us understand this. A man surely wants two

> things in life - Securities (Artha) and Pleasure (Kama). This feelings are

> there because one feels insecure and unpleasant. In other words " I lack

> security " and " I lack pleasures " . To gain securities one has to study and

> work hard but a person always found lacking. Moreover a person wants to have

> pleasures. For this he needs to spend his securities. Therefore, your

> efforts towards securities bring a loss in pleasures and your efforts

> towards pleasures bring a loss in securities. Therefore, you are always

> found lacking. What is the way out of this vicious circle? Our wise men

> never did say that you leave pleasures and Securities because they

> identified these as goals. But they also were wise enough to know that these

> were not goals in themselves because they did not satisfy you.

>

> Please think, do you want money for money's sake or for your own sake? It is

> for your own sake that you want pleasures and securities. Even when you

> sacrifice these for some other person then it for your own sake that you are

> following Dharma (the third human pursuit). So all three pursuits are

> pursuits for oneself. Only to remove the feeling that " I lack " . Our saints

> and sages recognized that the problem was not in lacking securities or

> pleasure but the problem was in this wrong notion that " I lack " .

>

> I ask you a question - How much happiness do you want in life? Your answer

> cannot be anything less than infinite. It is your desire to have infinite

> happiness but the efforts are only put to pursue finite objects. Finite +

> Finite is not equal to Infinite. Only in being infinity that one gains

> infinite happiness. That infinite is you. So what you pursue is you. This is

> the meaning of the statement TAT TWAM ASI.

>

> Now, your question is - How can you say that I am Infinite? You give your

> logic - When I am in office I am not at home. Infact, when I am in chair I

> am not on the table. So I am a limited being. Your statement is incorrect.

>

> This is your reply.

>

> I can also see this logic and still I say that you are Anantam (Infinite).

> Please read carefully:

>

> Anything natural is not a matter for complaint. When your eyes see

> perfectly, do you complain to an eye specialist? No, you do not. You only

> complain when your eyes do not see properly, say, when a dust particle goes

> in your eye. Because vision is natural to eyes so there is no complaint in

> case it is perfect vision. You only complain in case of unnatural things.

> Similarly, you view yourself. You complain that you lack. It means this

> notion that I lack is some foreign notion to You. " I lack " is limitedness.

> So limitlessness is your nature. Similarly, can you stand ignorance? No. you

> cannot so you natural state is Knowledge. That is why our spiritual

> scientists say that you are Sat (existence), Chit (Knowledge) and Ananda

> (limitlessness). This is your true state.

>

> Such a person who recognize this within is called a God -Realized person.

> Because whom we call as God is nothing but All knowing (Gnanam), All

> Existence (Sat) and All Pervading (Anandam). Hence, it is only Indian

> culture which recognizes correctly the very man as the very God. It is not

> your body or mind which you are aware of as limited but it is the AWARENESS

> itself which is not bound by anything.

>

> This principle shows in our culture. See for yourself:

>

> *Salient Features:*

>

> · We can pray to God in any manner we like through any object or

> animal or tree. It is not idol worship. It is a subtle recognition that all

> is nothing but God. God being infinite pervades everything. In fact, when we

> pray to the stone in front of us, we do not say " Hey stone! please fulfill

> our wishes! " ...We say " Hey God! Please fulfill our wishes! " This shows

> clearly how grand our culture is. Foolish people think that praying to a

> stone is nonsense. Nobody in India prays to stone we only pray to the Lord

> in the stone and as the stone.

>

> · We put Tilak on our forehead. Why? It is because we are

> auspiciousness itself. The tilak represents auspiciousness. Nothing but the

> Lord is auspicious and hence we again recognize the Lord in us as us.

>

> · We do Namaskar to everybody. Why? Because we recognize that the

> Lord is there in all as all.

>

> · In South, each person calls unknown people as " Swami " . Why?

> Because they recognize the Lord is there is all as all.

>

> · Our Music and our form of Dances are depicting the same. They are

> expressions of the same knowledge.

>

> · We are probably the only country which is truly secular because we

> understand that any person from any caste and creed can pray to the Lord in

> any way it is acceptable, for Lord only is.

>

>

>

> There are many more such principles. The list is endless. I can go on and on

> but for the intelligent only an indication is enough.

>

> We do not stop only at culture and religion.

>

> Our Vedic Mathematics is such that one student studied it and is beating the

> fastest computers in the world in calculating complex mathematical problems.

> She is Shakuntala Devi. There is a book called " Vedic Mathematics " . It is

> published by Motilal BanarasiDass and written by Sri Sankaracharya Bharati

> Krishna Tirthaji Maharaj. It says in 8 1/2 months by studying only 2 hours a

> week one can finish the entire course of Mathematics upto Ph.D. level by

> only a average 15 year old student! You know where this Mathematics has come

> from - from the Atharvana Veda in an appendix in only 16 mantras. So, we did

> not only give the world the idea of zero and infinity but also of the entire

> mathematics. Excellent research is going on in Germany and Britain on Vedic

> Mathematics as also in Benaras Hindu University.

>

> Our understanding of our Solar system has always been better than all.

> Nearly 4000 years ago we knew the exact motion of all these planets and

> their relation to the life forms and Natural Forces on Earth. Our Jyotish,

> knew exactly how to calculate the position of the planets and relate it to a

> person's life. They knew how each event affects so many other events. A

> principle which Physics is discovering now. If you go through, " The history

> of time " by Stephen Hawking this principle of a Light Cone in Time and Space

> dimension is explained.

>

> Our Jyotish Scientists were not stupid they knew exactly what were their

> subject's limitations and uses. They were not blind believers but scientific

> exponents.

>

> Sanskrit the word means Cultured. Sanskriti comes from this root. So the

> word Culture and its meaning has come from India. The world learnt it from

> India. Sanskrit the language is called the mother if all languages because

> it contains all possible sounds in its script. In fact so structured is this

> language that other languages appear only very ordinary and common in front

> of it. So well defined are its rules that the computer world it taking to

> Panini's Grammer to sort out their programming problems.

>

> Einstein's theory that matter is not a real thing but an appearance because

> it is only energy was always given in the Veda. The Veda has always said it

> and proved it that the world is only an appearance and not a Reality. Veda

> recognized that the perceptions can be faulty.

>

> Even as far as Reality is concerned it is us that know it. The whole

> scientific community can never know it.

>

> India despite being very powerful at times has never tried to attack and

> conquer others. It has been only foreigners doing that to India. It is not

> because Indian Rulers were meek but because our wisdom says live and let

> live. Do not eat up other person's land. It is our value. It requires more

> strength not to attack and conquer when you are powerful then to do so. For

> uphold of Dharma people have laid their lives. Even in front of death they

> have not buckled. Infact, such is our value system that whenever we have

> cared to follow it - it has been a golden period in history and whenever we

> have flouted it we have been made as slaves.

>

> But we have always recognized the same values again and again and

> established Dharma. I see the current situation as slightly equal to our

> earlier conditions but I have full faith in our Indianness. I have full

> faith in the Cultural Values. I have full faith in the wisdom of this land

> as you have faith that the day will follow the night.

>

> Our Indianness is too deep-rooted to be shattered. It has stood the test of

> time. It had stood trials and tribulations. It will stand this meek

> corruption and politics also.

>

> " Satyamev Jayate " - Truth Prevails is not only on our emblem but is from the

> Veda. Uphold the " Satyam " and see it prevail.

>

> You see, I do not need to be proud, I only have to be an Indian. And being

> an Indian means a personification of its culture.

>

>

>

> Thanks and Regards

>

> Bharat

>

On Nov 17, 2007 4:47 AM, Marg <margie9 wrote:

>

> > Dear friends of the list

> >

> > Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from astrology.....or

> > maybe it throws new light on the evolution of astrological principles?

> >

> > Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now appropriate

> > to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the new divide of the

> > country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to resolve issues plaguing

> India

> > at the time.

> > Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples from

> > Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is so minimal

> on

> > the culture it is not even important in the light of the Brit occupation?

> >

> > Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their homeland in

> > India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit invasion therefore

> > nullified as a result?

> >

> > How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese background) and its

> > other invasions pre Brit occupation?

> >

> > British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is

> > American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is Indian??

> > Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-one on the

> > planet is pure anything???

> >

> > Best wishes

> > M

> >

> > Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

> >

> > ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

> > India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> > corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

> > and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

> > our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> > questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

> > facts?'

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I second Shri Satyaji.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, " Satya Sai Kolachina "

<skolachi wrote:

>

> Dear Sri Bharat,

>

> Best possible description and excellent presentation. We need

nothing

> else to dicuss or debate.

>

> Best regards,

> Satya Sai Kolachina

>

> , " Bharat - Hindu Astrology "

> <astrologyhindu@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sri Marg

> >

> > The history is corrupted everywhere. It is corrupted even in

> countries which

> > have not been invaded. One of the biggest corruption has come by

> way of

> > aggressive " religions " . Church is known to corrupt the

> interpretations of

> > texts of different religions and subject other religion's

followers

> to

> > extreme punishments. Nowadays, it is the turn of the Muslims to

do

> so. This

> > is mainly done to remain popular by showing others down and by

> extensive use

> > force and bribery. Similarly, to maintain political power, many

> political

> > leaders and groups subject the History to its shameful illusions.

> Like it is

> > said, had Hitler won the war, history till 1945 would have been

very

> > different from what it is now.

> >

> > Our scriptures especially the Vedas were preserved through

lineage

> of

> > Master-Student relationships and through Maths. The same cannot

be

> said of

> > Astrology. Astrology, considered as Devil worship by Church and

by

> others,

> > was subject to maximum destruction. Many of the texts were

> destroyed or

> > corrupted.

> >

> > When the Greek invaded India, it was Chanakya who stopped the

> cultural

> > invasion through his band of student warriors led by the great

> Chandragupta

> > Maurya. Similarly, we have had great teachers, self realized

> saints, and

> > others who have brought back our culture to its glory time and

> again. If you

> > see the fight for freedom and the Satyagraha, it has its roots in

> our

> > culture, and it was done to bring back our way of life.

> >

> > The division of country is a living proof of the separative and

> dangerous

> > tendencies of aggressive religions. All those who live in

Pakistan

> were once

> > Hindus. They were converted by force or by greed of gains by the

> Mughal

> > rulers. Those brothers were made to hate their homeland so much

so

> as to

> > separate from it. Furthermore, even today there is hatred being

> generated

> > against their own brothers in India. So if you ask me who is a

> Pakistani - I

> > would say he is Hindu who has forgotten himself and believes

> himself to a

> > part of an alien culture and thinks of killing his own brothers

in

> India. So

> > the corruption has occurred, but, we must know the cause of it.

> >

> > Similarly, one day one fellow indian made fun of Indians and sent

> an email

> > to me too - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I wrote a reply to

> him, which I

> > reproduce below and perhaps it can answer " Who is an Indian " .

This

> was in

> > year 1999 or 2000. Please pardon the typos and grammar errors as

I

> wrote it

> > in one go that time. Reproducing the exact version.

> >

> > *Just Be an Indian*

> >

> > *Somebody sent me an e-mail. The question asked was " Are you

> proud to be

> > an Indian? " The contents of the e-mail were a pun on Indianness.*

> >

> > *This e-mail was doing circles all over the world. It was then

> decided by me

> > to clear things up with many persons who are not aware of their

> culture

> > which is born out of fine Indian wisdom. I reproduce my answer.*

> >

> > The question asked was - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I

modify

> this

> > question and ask - " Are you an Indian? " Because if you are an

> Indian then it

> > is enough. You do not need pride then. You are so inspired from

> within that

> > you do not need the crutches of pride. Being an Indian is enough.

> >

> > The problem with many so called Indians is that they are not

> Indians at all.

> > Indian culture and its vastness, probably, cannot enter their

> narrow and

> > self-centered minds. Knowing our culture is enough. It engrains

such

> > Indianness that even by living a whole life time in foreign lands

> it does

> > not get eroded.

> >

> >

> >

> > *The Fundamental Principle*

> >

> > Our culture is such that it is based on one principle - " Tat Twam

> Asi "

> > (Sanskrit). It is a universal principle. It means " That thou Art "

> meaning

> > YOU ARE THAT. It means that whatever you are seeking to become is

> already

> > you.

> >

> > A little explanation will help us understand this. A man surely

> wants two

> > things in life - Securities (Artha) and Pleasure (Kama). This

> feelings are

> > there because one feels insecure and unpleasant. In other

words " I

> lack

> > security " and " I lack pleasures " . To gain securities one has to

> study and

> > work hard but a person always found lacking. Moreover a person

> wants to have

> > pleasures. For this he needs to spend his securities. Therefore,

> your

> > efforts towards securities bring a loss in pleasures and your

> efforts

> > towards pleasures bring a loss in securities. Therefore, you are

> always

> > found lacking. What is the way out of this vicious circle? Our

wise

> men

> > never did say that you leave pleasures and Securities because they

> > identified these as goals. But they also were wise enough to know

> that these

> > were not goals in themselves because they did not satisfy you.

> >

> > Please think, do you want money for money's sake or for your own

> sake? It is

> > for your own sake that you want pleasures and securities. Even

when

> you

> > sacrifice these for some other person then it for your own sake

> that you are

> > following Dharma (the third human pursuit). So all three pursuits

> are

> > pursuits for oneself. Only to remove the feeling that " I lack " .

Our

> saints

> > and sages recognized that the problem was not in lacking

securities

> or

> > pleasure but the problem was in this wrong notion that " I lack " .

> >

> > I ask you a question - How much happiness do you want in life?

Your

> answer

> > cannot be anything less than infinite. It is your desire to have

> infinite

> > happiness but the efforts are only put to pursue finite objects.

> Finite +

> > Finite is not equal to Infinite. Only in being infinity that one

> gains

> > infinite happiness. That infinite is you. So what you pursue is

> you. This is

> > the meaning of the statement TAT TWAM ASI.

> >

> > Now, your question is - How can you say that I am Infinite? You

> give your

> > logic - When I am in office I am not at home. Infact, when I am

in

> chair I

> > am not on the table. So I am a limited being. Your statement is

> incorrect.

> >

> > This is your reply.

> >

> > I can also see this logic and still I say that you are Anantam

> (Infinite).

> > Please read carefully:

> >

> > Anything natural is not a matter for complaint. When your eyes see

> > perfectly, do you complain to an eye specialist? No, you do not.

> You only

> > complain when your eyes do not see properly, say, when a dust

> particle goes

> > in your eye. Because vision is natural to eyes so there is no

> complaint in

> > case it is perfect vision. You only complain in case of unnatural

> things.

> > Similarly, you view yourself. You complain that you lack. It

means

> this

> > notion that I lack is some foreign notion to You. " I lack " is

> limitedness.

> > So limitlessness is your nature. Similarly, can you stand

> ignorance? No. you

> > cannot so you natural state is Knowledge. That is why our

spiritual

> > scientists say that you are Sat (existence), Chit (Knowledge) and

> Ananda

> > (limitlessness). This is your true state.

> >

> > Such a person who recognize this within is called a God -Realized

> person.

> > Because whom we call as God is nothing but All knowing (Gnanam),

All

> > Existence (Sat) and All Pervading (Anandam). Hence, it is only

> Indian

> > culture which recognizes correctly the very man as the very God.

It

> is not

> > your body or mind which you are aware of as limited but it is the

> AWARENESS

> > itself which is not bound by anything.

> >

> > This principle shows in our culture. See for yourself:

> >

> > *Salient Features:*

> >

> > · We can pray to God in any manner we like through any

> object or

> > animal or tree. It is not idol worship. It is a subtle

recognition

> that all

> > is nothing but God. God being infinite pervades everything. In

> fact, when we

> > pray to the stone in front of us, we do not say " Hey stone!

please

> fulfill

> > our wishes! " ...We say " Hey God! Please fulfill our wishes! " This

> shows

> > clearly how grand our culture is. Foolish people think that

praying

> to a

> > stone is nonsense. Nobody in India prays to stone we only pray to

> the Lord

> > in the stone and as the stone.

> >

> > · We put Tilak on our forehead. Why? It is because we are

> > auspiciousness itself. The tilak represents auspiciousness.

Nothing

> but the

> > Lord is auspicious and hence we again recognize the Lord in us as

> us.

> >

> > · We do Namaskar to everybody. Why? Because we recognize

> that the

> > Lord is there in all as all.

> >

> > · In South, each person calls unknown people as " Swami " .

> Why?

> > Because they recognize the Lord is there is all as all.

> >

> > · Our Music and our form of Dances are depicting the

same.

> They are

> > expressions of the same knowledge.

> >

> > · We are probably the only country which is truly secular

> because we

> > understand that any person from any caste and creed can pray to

the

> Lord in

> > any way it is acceptable, for Lord only is.

> >

> >

> >

> > There are many more such principles. The list is endless. I can

go

> on and on

> > but for the intelligent only an indication is enough.

> >

> > We do not stop only at culture and religion.

> >

> > Our Vedic Mathematics is such that one student studied it and is

> beating the

> > fastest computers in the world in calculating complex

mathematical

> problems.

> > She is Shakuntala Devi. There is a book called " Vedic

Mathematics " .

> It is

> > published by Motilal BanarasiDass and written by Sri

Sankaracharya

> Bharati

> > Krishna Tirthaji Maharaj. It says in 8 1/2 months by studying

only

> 2 hours a

> > week one can finish the entire course of Mathematics upto Ph.D.

> level by

> > only a average 15 year old student! You know where this

Mathematics

> has come

> > from - from the Atharvana Veda in an appendix in only 16 mantras.

> So, we did

> > not only give the world the idea of zero and infinity but also of

> the entire

> > mathematics. Excellent research is going on in Germany and

Britain

> on Vedic

> > Mathematics as also in Benaras Hindu University.

> >

> > Our understanding of our Solar system has always been better than

> all.

> > Nearly 4000 years ago we knew the exact motion of all these

planets

> and

> > their relation to the life forms and Natural Forces on Earth. Our

> Jyotish,

> > knew exactly how to calculate the position of the planets and

> relate it to a

> > person's life. They knew how each event affects so many other

> events. A

> > principle which Physics is discovering now. If you go

through, " The

> history

> > of time " by Stephen Hawking this principle of a Light Cone in

Time

> and Space

> > dimension is explained.

> >

> > Our Jyotish Scientists were not stupid they knew exactly what

were

> their

> > subject's limitations and uses. They were not blind believers but

> scientific

> > exponents.

> >

> > Sanskrit the word means Cultured. Sanskriti comes from this root.

> So the

> > word Culture and its meaning has come from India. The world

learnt

> it from

> > India. Sanskrit the language is called the mother if all

languages

> because

> > it contains all possible sounds in its script. In fact so

> structured is this

> > language that other languages appear only very ordinary and

common

> in front

> > of it. So well defined are its rules that the computer world it

> taking to

> > Panini's Grammer to sort out their programming problems.

> >

> > Einstein's theory that matter is not a real thing but an

appearance

> because

> > it is only energy was always given in the Veda. The Veda has

always

> said it

> > and proved it that the world is only an appearance and not a

> Reality. Veda

> > recognized that the perceptions can be faulty.

> >

> > Even as far as Reality is concerned it is us that know it. The

whole

> > scientific community can never know it.

> >

> > India despite being very powerful at times has never tried to

> attack and

> > conquer others. It has been only foreigners doing that to India.

It

> is not

> > because Indian Rulers were meek but because our wisdom says live

> and let

> > live. Do not eat up other person's land. It is our value. It

> requires more

> > strength not to attack and conquer when you are powerful then to

do

> so. For

> > uphold of Dharma people have laid their lives. Even in front of

> death they

> > have not buckled. Infact, such is our value system that whenever

we

> have

> > cared to follow it - it has been a golden period in history and

> whenever we

> > have flouted it we have been made as slaves.

> >

> > But we have always recognized the same values again and again and

> > established Dharma. I see the current situation as slightly equal

> to our

> > earlier conditions but I have full faith in our Indianness. I

have

> full

> > faith in the Cultural Values. I have full faith in the wisdom of

> this land

> > as you have faith that the day will follow the night.

> >

> > Our Indianness is too deep-rooted to be shattered. It has stood

the

> test of

> > time. It had stood trials and tribulations. It will stand this

meek

> > corruption and politics also.

> >

> > " Satyamev Jayate " - Truth Prevails is not only on our emblem but

is

> from the

> > Veda. Uphold the " Satyam " and see it prevail.

> >

> > You see, I do not need to be proud, I only have to be an Indian.

> And being

> > an Indian means a personification of its culture.

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> >

> > Bharat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On Nov 17, 2007 4:47 AM, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > > Dear friends of the list

> > >

> > > Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from

> astrology.....or

> > > maybe it throws new light on the evolution of astrological

> principles?

> > >

> > > Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now

> appropriate

> > > to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the new

divide

> of the

> > > country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to resolve issues

> plaguing India

> > > at the time.

> > > Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples

> from

> > > Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is

so

> minimal on

> > > the culture it is not even important in the light of the Brit

> occupation?

> > >

> > > Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their

> homeland in

> > > India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit invasion

> therefore

> > > nullified as a result?

> > >

> > > How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese

> background) and its

> > > other invasions pre Brit occupation?

> > >

> > > British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is

> > > American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly

is

> Indian??

> > > Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-

one

> on the

> > > planet is pure anything???

> > >

> > > Best wishes

> > > M

> > >

> > > Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

> > >

> > > ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British

> rule in

> > > India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> > > corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture,

> religion

> > > and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of

> questioning

> > > our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> > > questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have

> the

> > > facts?'

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Marg,

 

two things interest here: first, reference to Mayan Culture and the second,

to the great flood. I have written a lot about these two about 4 or 5 years

ago, since i believe both of them are connected to Indian culture.

 

To start with I am enclosing one of my messages which I could easily trace

from a forward< I invite your coments:

QUOTE:

Dear brothers,

 

The mahabharat war took place some time in 3000 bc as per indian

historians.

 

a skull is found in kurusketra, the traditional place where the war

is said to have taken place. surprisingly, this skull is 5000 years

old and is said to hv evidenced to be effected by nuclear radiation.

it is taken away by russian sceintists.

 

mayan culture starts their calender with 3114 bc... do u know

that " There are two small craters from about this time, but what

seems more probable, is a huge meteorite swarm that both caused much

damage on land, brought up tsunamis and blanketed with dust the

atmosphere. It may have been a break-up of a great comet in the inner

parts of the solar system. People were panic-

strickenhat " (http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/tilmari/tilmari3.htm#cosmic

)

 

obviously, it is not the meteors that have caused these... these are

the effects of nuclear war that took place during mahabharat...

 

mayan culture is started by the race of 'demons' from mahabharat...

one mr maya, who is a great architect had to run away from india.

 

he founded his own civilisation in mexico and mexicans came into lime

light some time during 1500 bc... the same time when 'aryans' are

supposed to be invading india...

 

" Considered the most outstanding intellects of ancient Mexico, the

Maya devised a complex style of hieroglyphic writing that has yet to

be fully deciphered. They refined the exact sciences learned from

other prehispanic civilizations. Through their knowledge of astronomy

and mathematics they calculated the lunar cycle, predicted eclipses

and other heavenly events with great precision and formulated a

unique calendar system more exact than the one we use today. "

 

http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/hclassic3.html

 

this is no doubt borrowed from india ( who could talk of winter

solistces etc long long ago)

 

the further evidences of mayan culture borrowing from ancient hindus

can be seen as below:

 

" For the Maya, science and religion went hand in hand, forming the

core of daily life. A baptismal rite was commonly practiced for

children who survived infancy. To secure the favor of their gods,

each year was marked by a series of festivals that included ritual

offerings, sacrifices and the imbibing of an intoxicating mead called

balche. Among the most revered deities were Itzamna and Ix Chel,

father and mother of all other gods, and the rain god Chac. Kukulcan

was the Mayan name for the feathered serpent, god of the ruling

caste. The Maya's highly complex pantheon and multi-faceted cosmology

continue to fascinate and perplex archaeologists and other students

of the culture. "

 

we have given greatness to other cultures...

 

time we realise that...

 

KISHORE

 

UNQUOTE

 

best regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

 

On 11/17/07, Marg <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore,

>

> I think Isaac Newton's chronology also followed the tradition of dating

> according to many biblical events and references around in his day, though

> at least he wasn't so prejudiced against astrology that he completely

> dismissed it or leave it out of his work, as did many other historians.

> I don't think it is just Brit Kings and their wars which have managed to

> wipe out important historical evidence. History shows successive regimes

> have contributed to the decimation of essential knowledge, whether it is

> consistent internecine strife pre 4000 bce in Asia, or the invasions of

> South America and Peru or Africa. This was the nature of the role of Emperor

> ,Raj and ruler in ancient times. It was the role of the scribe or journalist

> to please the ruler by recording HIS version of reality, rather than actual

> facts. Of course the recorder/scribe/journalist is going to report from the

> political advantage of the ruler of the day, even if it means writing using

> the language of the ruler of the day.

> No-one yet knows why the Mayans left their towns and cities, and much of

> their astronomical and astrological knowledge has been destroyed by invasion

> also.

> Even in Europe there is very little known of the ancient druids who were

> priest astrologers, though their astro monuments still dominate horizons.

> However, all cultures share the story of the great flood, so perhaps at

> the end of the day it isn't one race, tribe or culture pre 4000 bce which

> swept away the historical heritage, but global disasters caused by

> interplanetary influences.

> best wishes

> M

>

> -

> kishore patnaik

> <%40>

> Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:50 AM

> Re: Basic principles

>

> Dear Marg,

>

> ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

> India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

> and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

> our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

> facts?'

>

> Very well said.

>

> Bible knew only history for the last 4000 years and it made a chronology

> of

> the same. Just like indian puranas which will make trace a dynasty till

> the oldest known person and then declare that his father is Manu (first

> person) or brhma (ie his father's name is not known), Bible also has

> declared that the father of the earliest known person is Adam.

>

> This has been wrongly interpreted as the universe being 4000 years old,

> which is any way nonsense.

>

> But the britishers and their european stooges such as Max Mueller was so

> bigotic that they tried to fit the indian history within these 4000 years.

> Very funnily, they have tried doing this on the basis of language, without

> knowing that Sanskrit of the Rgveda and other vedas literally remained

> changeless for god knows how many ages.

>

> you can differentiate between victorian english and today's english but

> can

> you differentiate between sanskrit of my grand father's grand father's

> time

> and my time? It remained without change, if you compare any outstanding

> work

> on sanskrit of 21st century and that of 17th century.

>

> It is really unfortunate that free Indians who want proof for every change

> proposed in the dating of ancient Indian history have no arguements before

> the dating proposed on a blatantly foolish surmise that universe is 4000

> years old.

>

> regards,

>

> Kishore patnaik

> 98492 70729

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kishore

 

Even before I get to the third paragraph of your quote from an earlier mail, I

have two things to say. Rama's chart with even just Moon and Jupiter in Cancer

asc indicates a flood.

Also, the ref to six seasons? Does it mean six weather seasons or six epochial

seasonal cycles?

The 3000 bc date is still in need of further confirmation.

The fact that a skull has signs of radiation could also mean it has been

subjected to normal radiation from nearby rock formation, as many rock

interfaces give off radiation. Is this a possibility in the location it was

found?

The severe impact you refer to is also interesting, and it is thought by many

researchers that there was a meteoric collision with earth and this is what

caused the flood to occur.

What is also interesting is that Venus is thought by many researchers to be a

relatively new planet, and its creation coincided with this meteoric collision.

This is why some believe that the Mayans followed the cycles of Venus so closely

from its birth in 3114 bce. Now don't you find that fact food for thought?

 

Because if Venus becomes the ruler of Vak after ( not simultaneously you

understand?) the birth of Rama can we speculate this is why Venus is also

associated with MAYA in jyotish? At least that is what I understaood Venus is

also associated with. However, Venus is also associated with floods, in fact

great floods which covered the whole earth according to Parasara.

The Maya also believe that the world cycle ends in 2012, and this is due to the

end of recordings of Veus cycles on the tablets they left behind. Certainly

using what little I know of astro meteorology at the moment we are due floods in

my region in 2012 according to some charts I already calculated for that year.

 

The Chinese always associate Venus with great war. This is not surprising if a

great war broke out in that region in ancient times and along with it some form

of meteoric or nuclear devastation?

 

In many cultures there are signs of belief of a cataclysm where the sky and

earth were moved from their course.

 

Only a couple of years ago we were discussing a new 'Venus being 'born' in the

skies, I think I wrote of this on the list as I was already interested in the

Mayan cycles of planets at the time, like everyone else.

 

The hieroglyphic language of the Maya now has already been fully decoded I

believe, through Maurice Cotterills extensive work on the Palenque lid which is

the one most precious and untouched relic of the civilisation which avoided the

devastation of the conquistador invasion.

 

I find it intersting that May are being associated with Inda. India does not

have a history of heiroglyhiphic writing as does the Chnies, Babylonian and

Egyptian culture. However, given the Parthians were escaping to India under

Greek invasion, perhaps these peoples are the source of the Maya exodus from

India? The Persians are still considered in many circles to be the best

astrologers of all, even to this day.

 

I'm interested in the nuclear war it is thought took place at the time of the

Mahbharat war.

 

More recently I was viewing a programme about an archaeological find in Asia,

forget precisely where---somewhere like Uzbekistan I think, but certainly NW of

India. The find is of a complete chariot and full set of horses, along with

other bones of warriors, village,palace etc etc. I was reminded of Arjuna on the

battlefield when I was watching the find being uncovered.

 

I'm also enclosing a small excerpt from Robert hands excellent track of the

history of astrology.

 

Best wishes

M

Mesopotamian Origins

 

 

Mesopotamia, the " Land between the Two Rivers, " is one of the so-called

" cradles " of civilization, along with Egypt, China, the Indus Valley and

Meso-America. It also appears to be the oldest of these. The evidence indicates

an urban civilization as early as 4000 B.C.E. The first people in the area were

a people known as the Ubaidians. We know virtually nothing about these people

except that at a fairly early period another people began moving into the area

and intermarrying with them. These were the Sumerians who became dominant and

whose language replaced whatever was the language of the Ubaidians. Also the

Sumerians invented the oldest known form of writing, cuneiform, which is done by

impressing wedge-shapes into soft clay.

 

After a period of time Semitic peoples began moving into the area as well. The

first of these were the Akkadians centered around their city of Akkad. In about

2330 B.C.E. Sargon of Akkad conquered the Sumerians and created the first of

several Semitic empires that would dominate not only Mesopotamia but also the

Mediterranean coast and eventually even Egypt. The language of the Akkadians was

the direct ancestor of the Assyrian and Babylonian languages, these being in

fact dialects of Akkadian.

 

The Akkadian Empire fell in about 2218 B.C.E. After this various Semitic and

other peoples struggled for control of the area. This constant struggle among

various peoples in fact marks the major difference between the Mespotamian

civilization and that of Egypt. Egypt had many centuries of relative peace with

occasional periods of disturbance, but nothing like the chaos of Mesopotamia.

 

After a period of time in the second millennium B.C.E. two peoples began to

assume dominance, the Babylonians who had been culturally dominant for many

centuries in the south, and the Assyrians in the north. As it turned out, while

both groups were politically dominant at times, in general it can be said that

the Assyrians were more often politically dominant while the Babylonians were

culturally dominant. In fact the Assyrians even used the Babylonian dialect of

Akkadian for their own official records.

 

Here are some dates in Mesopotamian history from this point on. All dates assume

that something like the modern system of chronology. Even in modern sources

these dates vary. The ones here are from the 1994 version of Microsoft's

Encarta®.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

kishore patnaik

Saturday, November 17, 2007 1:24 PM

Re: Basic principles

 

 

Dear Marg,

 

two things interest here: first, reference to Mayan Culture and the second,

to the great flood. I have written a lot about these two about 4 or 5 years

ago, since i believe both of them are connected to Indian culture.

 

To start with I am enclosing one of my messages which I could easily trace

from a forward< I invite your coments:

QUOTE:

Dear brothers,

 

The mahabharat war took place some time in 3000 bc as per indian

historians.

 

a skull is found in kurusketra, the traditional place where the war

is said to have taken place. surprisingly, this skull is 5000 years

old and is said to hv evidenced to be effected by nuclear radiation.

it is taken away by russian sceintists.

 

mayan culture starts their calender with 3114 bc... do u know

that " There are two small craters from about this time, but what

seems more probable, is a huge meteorite swarm that both caused much

damage on land, brought up tsunamis and blanketed with dust the

atmosphere. It may have been a break-up of a great comet in the inner

parts of the solar system. People were panic-

strickenhat " (http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/tilmari/tilmari3.htm#cosmic

)

 

obviously, it is not the meteors that have caused these... these are

the effects of nuclear war that took place during mahabharat...

 

mayan culture is started by the race of 'demons' from mahabharat...

one mr maya, who is a great architect had to run away from india.

 

he founded his own civilisation in mexico and mexicans came into lime

light some time during 1500 bc... the same time when 'aryans' are

supposed to be invading india...

 

" Considered the most outstanding intellects of ancient Mexico, the

Maya devised a complex style of hieroglyphic writing that has yet to

be fully deciphered. They refined the exact sciences learned from

other prehispanic civilizations. Through their knowledge of astronomy

and mathematics they calculated the lunar cycle, predicted eclipses

and other heavenly events with great precision and formulated a

unique calendar system more exact than the one we use today. "

 

http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/hclassic3.html

 

this is no doubt borrowed from india ( who could talk of winter

solistces etc long long ago)

 

the further evidences of mayan culture borrowing from ancient hindus

can be seen as below:

 

" For the Maya, science and religion went hand in hand, forming the

core of daily life. A baptismal rite was commonly practiced for

children who survived infancy. To secure the favor of their gods,

each year was marked by a series of festivals that included ritual

offerings, sacrifices and the imbibing of an intoxicating mead called

balche. Among the most revered deities were Itzamna and Ix Chel,

father and mother of all other gods, and the rain god Chac. Kukulcan

was the Mayan name for the feathered serpent, god of the ruling

caste. The Maya's highly complex pantheon and multi-faceted cosmology

continue to fascinate and perplex archaeologists and other students

of the culture. "

 

we have given greatness to other cultures...

 

time we realise that...

 

KISHORE

 

UNQUOTE

 

best regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

 

On 11/17/07, Marg <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore,

>

> I think Isaac Newton's chronology also followed the tradition of dating

> according to many biblical events and references around in his day, though

> at least he wasn't so prejudiced against astrology that he completely

> dismissed it or leave it out of his work, as did many other historians.

> I don't think it is just Brit Kings and their wars which have managed to

> wipe out important historical evidence. History shows successive regimes

> have contributed to the decimation of essential knowledge, whether it is

> consistent internecine strife pre 4000 bce in Asia, or the invasions of

> South America and Peru or Africa. This was the nature of the role of Emperor

> ,Raj and ruler in ancient times. It was the role of the scribe or journalist

> to please the ruler by recording HIS version of reality, rather than actual

> facts. Of course the recorder/scribe/journalist is going to report from the

> political advantage of the ruler of the day, even if it means writing using

> the language of the ruler of the day.

> No-one yet knows why the Mayans left their towns and cities, and much of

> their astronomical and astrological knowledge has been destroyed by invasion

> also.

> Even in Europe there is very little known of the ancient druids who were

> priest astrologers, though their astro monuments still dominate horizons.

> However, all cultures share the story of the great flood, so perhaps at

> the end of the day it isn't one race, tribe or culture pre 4000 bce which

> swept away the historical heritage, but global disasters caused by

> interplanetary influences.

> best wishes

> M

>

> -

> kishore patnaik

> <%40>

> Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:50 AM

> Re: Basic principles

>

> Dear Marg,

>

> ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

> India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

> and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

> our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

> facts?'

>

> Very well said.

>

> Bible knew only history for the last 4000 years and it made a chronology

> of

> the same. Just like indian puranas which will make trace a dynasty till

> the oldest known person and then declare that his father is Manu (first

> person) or brhma (ie his father's name is not known), Bible also has

> declared that the father of the earliest known person is Adam.

>

> This has been wrongly interpreted as the universe being 4000 years old,

> which is any way nonsense.

>

> But the britishers and their european stooges such as Max Mueller was so

> bigotic that they tried to fit the indian history within these 4000 years.

> Very funnily, they have tried doing this on the basis of language, without

> knowing that Sanskrit of the Rgveda and other vedas literally remained

> changeless for god knows how many ages.

>

> you can differentiate between victorian english and today's english but

> can

> you differentiate between sanskrit of my grand father's grand father's

> time

> and my time? It remained without change, if you compare any outstanding

> work

> on sanskrit of 21st century and that of 17th century.

>

> It is really unfortunate that free Indians who want proof for every change

> proposed in the dating of ancient Indian history have no arguements before

> the dating proposed on a blatantly foolish surmise that universe is 4000

> years old.

>

> regards,

>

> Kishore patnaik

> 98492 70729

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Bharat

 

Many civilisations such as India were not warmongerers. In fact the ancient

druids of Europe were also considered to be peace loving and devout people,

which is why England was invaded over and again to the extent of extermination

of its ancient people, who were possible Druid. many Greek books refer to this

fact.

 

It is just that some nations are more aggressive than others and so this upsets

the balance, but this is the karma of existence.

 

Of course you take great pride in your heritage, this is only natural for anyone

to do. Yes I agree it is the psychotic need of some to impose their religious

beliefs onto others which has been the primary cause for unpleasantness which in

the extreme has meant that whole nations have been hounded, persecuted, if not

exterminated just because one or two people think their belief is the only true

belief and then seeks to bludgeon anyone who disagree.

As you say, is should be enough to be able to take contentment in being

'Indian'..........Chinese, Egyptain, new Zealander...whatever, without forcing

genetic fall-out!

best wishes

M

 

 

 

I

-

Bharat - Hindu Astrology

Saturday, November 17, 2007 10:51 AM

Re: Basic principles

 

 

Namaste Sri Marg

 

The history is corrupted everywhere. It is corrupted even in countries which

have not been invaded. One of the biggest corruption has come by way of

aggressive " religions " . Church is known to corrupt the interpretations of

texts of different religions and subject other religion's followers to

extreme punishments. Nowadays, it is the turn of the Muslims to do so. This

is mainly done to remain popular by showing others down and by extensive use

force and bribery. Similarly, to maintain political power, many political

leaders and groups subject the History to its shameful illusions. Like it is

said, had Hitler won the war, history till 1945 would have been very

different from what it is now.

 

Our scriptures especially the Vedas were preserved through lineage of

Master-Student relationships and through Maths. The same cannot be said of

Astrology. Astrology, considered as Devil worship by Church and by others,

was subject to maximum destruction. Many of the texts were destroyed or

corrupted.

 

When the Greek invaded India, it was Chanakya who stopped the cultural

invasion through his band of student warriors led by the great Chandragupta

Maurya. Similarly, we have had great teachers, self realized saints, and

others who have brought back our culture to its glory time and again. If you

see the fight for freedom and the Satyagraha, it has its roots in our

culture, and it was done to bring back our way of life.

 

The division of country is a living proof of the separative and dangerous

tendencies of aggressive religions. All those who live in Pakistan were once

Hindus. They were converted by force or by greed of gains by the Mughal

rulers. Those brothers were made to hate their homeland so much so as to

separate from it. Furthermore, even today there is hatred being generated

against their own brothers in India. So if you ask me who is a Pakistani - I

would say he is Hindu who has forgotten himself and believes himself to a

part of an alien culture and thinks of killing his own brothers in India. So

the corruption has occurred, but, we must know the cause of it.

 

Similarly, one day one fellow indian made fun of Indians and sent an email

to me too - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I wrote a reply to him, which I

reproduce below and perhaps it can answer " Who is an Indian " . This was in

year 1999 or 2000. Please pardon the typos and grammar errors as I wrote it

in one go that time. Reproducing the exact version.

 

*Just Be an Indian*

 

*Somebody sent me an e-mail. The question asked was " Are you proud to be

an Indian? " The contents of the e-mail were a pun on Indianness.*

 

*This e-mail was doing circles all over the world. It was then decided by me

to clear things up with many persons who are not aware of their culture

which is born out of fine Indian wisdom. I reproduce my answer.*

 

The question asked was - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I modify this

question and ask - " Are you an Indian? " Because if you are an Indian then it

is enough. You do not need pride then. You are so inspired from within that

you do not need the crutches of pride. Being an Indian is enough.

 

The problem with many so called Indians is that they are not Indians at all.

Indian culture and its vastness, probably, cannot enter their narrow and

self-centered minds. Knowing our culture is enough. It engrains such

Indianness that even by living a whole life time in foreign lands it does

not get eroded.

 

*The Fundamental Principle*

 

Our culture is such that it is based on one principle - " Tat Twam Asi "

(Sanskrit). It is a universal principle. It means " That thou Art " meaning

YOU ARE THAT. It means that whatever you are seeking to become is already

you.

 

A little explanation will help us understand this. A man surely wants two

things in life - Securities (Artha) and Pleasure (Kama). This feelings are

there because one feels insecure and unpleasant. In other words " I lack

security " and " I lack pleasures " . To gain securities one has to study and

work hard but a person always found lacking. Moreover a person wants to have

pleasures. For this he needs to spend his securities. Therefore, your

efforts towards securities bring a loss in pleasures and your efforts

towards pleasures bring a loss in securities. Therefore, you are always

found lacking. What is the way out of this vicious circle? Our wise men

never did say that you leave pleasures and Securities because they

identified these as goals. But they also were wise enough to know that these

were not goals in themselves because they did not satisfy you.

 

Please think, do you want money for money's sake or for your own sake? It is

for your own sake that you want pleasures and securities. Even when you

sacrifice these for some other person then it for your own sake that you are

following Dharma (the third human pursuit). So all three pursuits are

pursuits for oneself. Only to remove the feeling that " I lack " . Our saints

and sages recognized that the problem was not in lacking securities or

pleasure but the problem was in this wrong notion that " I lack " .

 

I ask you a question - How much happiness do you want in life? Your answer

cannot be anything less than infinite. It is your desire to have infinite

happiness but the efforts are only put to pursue finite objects. Finite +

Finite is not equal to Infinite. Only in being infinity that one gains

infinite happiness. That infinite is you. So what you pursue is you. This is

the meaning of the statement TAT TWAM ASI.

 

Now, your question is - How can you say that I am Infinite? You give your

logic - When I am in office I am not at home. Infact, when I am in chair I

am not on the table. So I am a limited being. Your statement is incorrect.

 

This is your reply.

 

I can also see this logic and still I say that you are Anantam (Infinite).

Please read carefully:

 

Anything natural is not a matter for complaint. When your eyes see

perfectly, do you complain to an eye specialist? No, you do not. You only

complain when your eyes do not see properly, say, when a dust particle goes

in your eye. Because vision is natural to eyes so there is no complaint in

case it is perfect vision. You only complain in case of unnatural things.

Similarly, you view yourself. You complain that you lack. It means this

notion that I lack is some foreign notion to You. " I lack " is limitedness.

So limitlessness is your nature. Similarly, can you stand ignorance? No. you

cannot so you natural state is Knowledge. That is why our spiritual

scientists say that you are Sat (existence), Chit (Knowledge) and Ananda

(limitlessness). This is your true state.

 

Such a person who recognize this within is called a God -Realized person.

Because whom we call as God is nothing but All knowing (Gnanam), All

Existence (Sat) and All Pervading (Anandam). Hence, it is only Indian

culture which recognizes correctly the very man as the very God. It is not

your body or mind which you are aware of as limited but it is the AWARENESS

itself which is not bound by anything.

 

This principle shows in our culture. See for yourself:

 

*Salient Features:*

 

· We can pray to God in any manner we like through any object or

animal or tree. It is not idol worship. It is a subtle recognition that all

is nothing but God. God being infinite pervades everything. In fact, when we

pray to the stone in front of us, we do not say " Hey stone! please fulfill

our wishes! " ...We say " Hey God! Please fulfill our wishes! " This shows

clearly how grand our culture is. Foolish people think that praying to a

stone is nonsense. Nobody in India prays to stone we only pray to the Lord

in the stone and as the stone.

 

· We put Tilak on our forehead. Why? It is because we are

auspiciousness itself. The tilak represents auspiciousness. Nothing but the

Lord is auspicious and hence we again recognize the Lord in us as us.

 

· We do Namaskar to everybody. Why? Because we recognize that the

Lord is there in all as all.

 

· In South, each person calls unknown people as " Swami " . Why?

Because they recognize the Lord is there is all as all.

 

· Our Music and our form of Dances are depicting the same. They are

expressions of the same knowledge.

 

· We are probably the only country which is truly secular because we

understand that any person from any caste and creed can pray to the Lord in

any way it is acceptable, for Lord only is.

 

There are many more such principles. The list is endless. I can go on and on

but for the intelligent only an indication is enough.

 

We do not stop only at culture and religion.

 

Our Vedic Mathematics is such that one student studied it and is beating the

fastest computers in the world in calculating complex mathematical problems.

She is Shakuntala Devi. There is a book called " Vedic Mathematics " . It is

published by Motilal BanarasiDass and written by Sri Sankaracharya Bharati

Krishna Tirthaji Maharaj. It says in 8 1/2 months by studying only 2 hours a

week one can finish the entire course of Mathematics upto Ph.D. level by

only a average 15 year old student! You know where this Mathematics has come

from - from the Atharvana Veda in an appendix in only 16 mantras. So, we did

not only give the world the idea of zero and infinity but also of the entire

mathematics. Excellent research is going on in Germany and Britain on Vedic

Mathematics as also in Benaras Hindu University.

 

Our understanding of our Solar system has always been better than all.

Nearly 4000 years ago we knew the exact motion of all these planets and

their relation to the life forms and Natural Forces on Earth. Our Jyotish,

knew exactly how to calculate the position of the planets and relate it to a

person's life. They knew how each event affects so many other events. A

principle which Physics is discovering now. If you go through, " The history

of time " by Stephen Hawking this principle of a Light Cone in Time and Space

dimension is explained.

 

Our Jyotish Scientists were not stupid they knew exactly what were their

subject's limitations and uses. They were not blind believers but scientific

exponents.

 

Sanskrit the word means Cultured. Sanskriti comes from this root. So the

word Culture and its meaning has come from India. The world learnt it from

India. Sanskrit the language is called the mother if all languages because

it contains all possible sounds in its script. In fact so structured is this

language that other languages appear only very ordinary and common in front

of it. So well defined are its rules that the computer world it taking to

Panini's Grammer to sort out their programming problems.

 

Einstein's theory that matter is not a real thing but an appearance because

it is only energy was always given in the Veda. The Veda has always said it

and proved it that the world is only an appearance and not a Reality. Veda

recognized that the perceptions can be faulty.

 

Even as far as Reality is concerned it is us that know it. The whole

scientific community can never know it.

 

India despite being very powerful at times has never tried to attack and

conquer others. It has been only foreigners doing that to India. It is not

because Indian Rulers were meek but because our wisdom says live and let

live. Do not eat up other person's land. It is our value. It requires more

strength not to attack and conquer when you are powerful then to do so. For

uphold of Dharma people have laid their lives. Even in front of death they

have not buckled. Infact, such is our value system that whenever we have

cared to follow it - it has been a golden period in history and whenever we

have flouted it we have been made as slaves.

 

But we have always recognized the same values again and again and

established Dharma. I see the current situation as slightly equal to our

earlier conditions but I have full faith in our Indianness. I have full

faith in the Cultural Values. I have full faith in the wisdom of this land

as you have faith that the day will follow the night.

 

Our Indianness is too deep-rooted to be shattered. It has stood the test of

time. It had stood trials and tribulations. It will stand this meek

corruption and politics also.

 

" Satyamev Jayate " - Truth Prevails is not only on our emblem but is from the

Veda. Uphold the " Satyam " and see it prevail.

 

You see, I do not need to be proud, I only have to be an Indian. And being

an Indian means a personification of its culture.

 

Thanks and Regards

 

Bharat

 

On Nov 17, 2007 4:47 AM, Marg <margie9 wrote:

 

> Dear friends of the list

>

> Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from astrology.....or

> maybe it throws new light on the evolution of astrological principles?

>

> Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now appropriate

> to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the new divide of the

> country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to resolve issues plaguing India

> at the time.

> Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples from

> Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is so minimal on

> the culture it is not even important in the light of the Brit occupation?

>

> Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their homeland in

> India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit invasion therefore

> nullified as a result?

>

> How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese background) and its

> other invasions pre Brit occupation?

>

> British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is

> American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is Indian??

> Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-one on the

> planet is pure anything???

>

> Best wishes

> M

>

> Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

>

> ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

> India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

> and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

> our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

> facts?'

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thnx Marg,

 

It will take some time before I can decipher and write to you. But plese do

keep prodding me- my saturn is with my moon , who is also my lagna lord in

the same nakshatra though not in the same rasi.

 

Implication: I am lazy and need prodding.

 

regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

98492 70729

 

 

On 11/18/07, Marg <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore

>

> Even before I get to the third paragraph of your quote from an earlier

> mail, I have two things to say. Rama's chart with even just Moon and Jupiter

> in Cancer asc indicates a flood.

> Also, the ref to six seasons? Does it mean six weather seasons or six

> epochial seasonal cycles?

> The 3000 bc date is still in need of further confirmation.

> The fact that a skull has signs of radiation could also mean it has been

> subjected to normal radiation from nearby rock formation, as many rock

> interfaces give off radiation. Is this a possibility in the location it was

> found?

> The severe impact you refer to is also interesting, and it is thought by

> many researchers that there was a meteoric collision with earth and this is

> what caused the flood to occur.

> What is also interesting is that Venus is thought by many researchers to

> be a relatively new planet, and its creation coincided with this meteoric

> collision. This is why some believe that the Mayans followed the cycles of

> Venus so closely from its birth in 3114 bce. Now don't you find that fact

> food for thought?

>

> Because if Venus becomes the ruler of Vak after ( not simultaneously you

> understand?) the birth of Rama can we speculate this is why Venus is also

> associated with MAYA in jyotish? At least that is what I understaood Venus

> is also associated with. However, Venus is also associated with floods, in

> fact great floods which covered the whole earth according to Parasara.

> The Maya also believe that the world cycle ends in 2012, and this is due

> to the end of recordings of Veus cycles on the tablets they left behind.

> Certainly using what little I know of astro meteorology at the moment we are

> due floods in my region in 2012 according to some charts I already

> calculated for that year.

>

> The Chinese always associate Venus with great war. This is not surprising

> if a great war broke out in that region in ancient times and along with it

> some form of meteoric or nuclear devastation?

>

> In many cultures there are signs of belief of a cataclysm where the sky

> and earth were moved from their course.

>

> Only a couple of years ago we were discussing a new 'Venus being 'born' in

> the skies, I think I wrote of this on the list as I was already interested

> in the Mayan cycles of planets at the time, like everyone else.

>

> The hieroglyphic language of the Maya now has already been fully decoded I

> believe, through Maurice Cotterills extensive work on the Palenque lid which

> is the one most precious and untouched relic of the civilisation which

> avoided the devastation of the conquistador invasion.

>

> I find it intersting that May are being associated with Inda. India does

> not have a history of heiroglyhiphic writing as does the Chnies, Babylonian

> and Egyptian culture. However, given the Parthians were escaping to India

> under Greek invasion, perhaps these peoples are the source of the Maya

> exodus from India? The Persians are still considered in many circles to be

> the best astrologers of all, even to this day.

>

> I'm interested in the nuclear war it is thought took place at the time of

> the Mahbharat war.

>

> More recently I was viewing a programme about an archaeological find in

> Asia, forget precisely where---somewhere like Uzbekistan I think, but

> certainly NW of India. The find is of a complete chariot and full set of

> horses, along with other bones of warriors, village,palace etc etc. I was

> reminded of Arjuna on the battlefield when I was watching the find being

> uncovered.

>

> I'm also enclosing a small excerpt from Robert hands excellent track of

> the history of astrology.

>

> Best wishes

> M

> Mesopotamian Origins

>

> Mesopotamia, the " Land between the Two Rivers, " is one of the so-called

> " cradles " of civilization, along with Egypt, China, the Indus Valley and

> Meso-America. It also appears to be the oldest of these. The evidence

> indicates an urban civilization as early as 4000 B.C.E. The first people

> in the area were a people known as the Ubaidians. We know virtually nothing

> about these people except that at a fairly early period another people began

> moving into the area and intermarrying with them. These were the Sumerians

> who became dominant and whose language replaced whatever was the language of

> the Ubaidians. Also the Sumerians invented the oldest known form of writing,

> cuneiform, which is done by impressing wedge-shapes into soft clay.

>

> After a period of time Semitic peoples began moving into the area as well.

> The first of these were the Akkadians centered around their city of Akkad.

> In about 2330 B.C.E. Sargon of Akkad conquered the Sumerians and created

> the first of several Semitic empires that would dominate not only

> Mesopotamia but also the Mediterranean coast and eventually even Egypt. The

> language of the Akkadians was the direct ancestor of the Assyrian and

> Babylonian languages, these being in fact dialects of Akkadian.

>

> The Akkadian Empire fell in about 2218 B.C.E. After this various Semitic

> and other peoples struggled for control of the area. This constant struggle

> among various peoples in fact marks the major difference between the

> Mespotamian civilization and that of Egypt. Egypt had many centuries of

> relative peace with occasional periods of disturbance, but nothing like the

> chaos of Mesopotamia.

>

> After a period of time in the second millennium B.C.E. two peoples began

> to assume dominance, the Babylonians who had been culturally dominant for

> many centuries in the south, and the Assyrians in the north. As it turned

> out, while both groups were politically dominant at times, in general it can

> be said that the Assyrians were more often politically dominant while the

> Babylonians were culturally dominant. In fact the Assyrians even used the

> Babylonian dialect of Akkadian for their own official records.

>

> Here are some dates in Mesopotamian history from this point on. All dates

> assume that something like the modern system of chronology. Even in modern

> sources these dates vary. The ones here are from the 1994 version of

> Microsoft's Encarta®.

>

> -

> kishore patnaik

> <%40>

> Saturday, November 17, 2007 1:24 PM

> Re: Basic principles

>

> Dear Marg,

>

> two things interest here: first, reference to Mayan Culture and the

> second,

> to the great flood. I have written a lot about these two about 4 or 5

> years

> ago, since i believe both of them are connected to Indian culture.

>

> To start with I am enclosing one of my messages which I could easily trace

> from a forward< I invite your coments:

> QUOTE:

> Dear brothers,

>

> The mahabharat war took place some time in 3000 bc as per indian

> historians.

>

> a skull is found in kurusketra, the traditional place where the war

> is said to have taken place. surprisingly, this skull is 5000 years

> old and is said to hv evidenced to be effected by nuclear radiation.

> it is taken away by russian sceintists.

>

> mayan culture starts their calender with 3114 bc... do u know

> that " There are two small craters from about this time, but what

> seems more probable, is a huge meteorite swarm that both caused much

> damage on land, brought up tsunamis and blanketed with dust the

> atmosphere. It may have been a break-up of a great comet in the inner

> parts of the solar system. People were panic-

> strickenhat " (http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/tilmari/tilmari3.htm#cosmic

> )

>

> obviously, it is not the meteors that have caused these... these are

> the effects of nuclear war that took place during mahabharat...

>

> mayan culture is started by the race of 'demons' from mahabharat...

> one mr maya, who is a great architect had to run away from india.

>

> he founded his own civilisation in mexico and mexicans came into lime

> light some time during 1500 bc... the same time when 'aryans' are

> supposed to be invading india...

>

> " Considered the most outstanding intellects of ancient Mexico, the

> Maya devised a complex style of hieroglyphic writing that has yet to

> be fully deciphered. They refined the exact sciences learned from

> other prehispanic civilizations. Through their knowledge of astronomy

> and mathematics they calculated the lunar cycle, predicted eclipses

> and other heavenly events with great precision and formulated a

> unique calendar system more exact than the one we use today. "

>

> http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/hclassic3.html

>

> this is no doubt borrowed from india ( who could talk of winter

> solistces etc long long ago)

>

> the further evidences of mayan culture borrowing from ancient hindus

> can be seen as below:

>

> " For the Maya, science and religion went hand in hand, forming the

> core of daily life. A baptismal rite was commonly practiced for

> children who survived infancy. To secure the favor of their gods,

> each year was marked by a series of festivals that included ritual

> offerings, sacrifices and the imbibing of an intoxicating mead called

> balche. Among the most revered deities were Itzamna and Ix Chel,

> father and mother of all other gods, and the rain god Chac. Kukulcan

> was the Mayan name for the feathered serpent, god of the ruling

> caste. The Maya's highly complex pantheon and multi-faceted cosmology

> continue to fascinate and perplex archaeologists and other students

> of the culture. "

>

> we have given greatness to other cultures...

>

> time we realise that...

>

> KISHORE

>

> UNQUOTE

>

> best regards,

>

> Kishore patnaik

>

> On 11/17/07, Marg <margie9 <margie9%40talktalk.net>> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kishore,

> >

> > I think Isaac Newton's chronology also followed the tradition of dating

> > according to many biblical events and references around in his day,

> though

> > at least he wasn't so prejudiced against astrology that he completely

> > dismissed it or leave it out of his work, as did many other historians.

> > I don't think it is just Brit Kings and their wars which have managed to

> > wipe out important historical evidence. History shows successive regimes

> > have contributed to the decimation of essential knowledge, whether it is

> > consistent internecine strife pre 4000 bce in Asia, or the invasions of

> > South America and Peru or Africa. This was the nature of the role of

> Emperor

> > ,Raj and ruler in ancient times. It was the role of the scribe or

> journalist

> > to please the ruler by recording HIS version of reality, rather than

> actual

> > facts. Of course the recorder/scribe/journalist is going to report from

> the

> > political advantage of the ruler of the day, even if it means writing

> using

> > the language of the ruler of the day.

> > No-one yet knows why the Mayans left their towns and cities, and much of

> > their astronomical and astrological knowledge has been destroyed by

> invasion

> > also.

> > Even in Europe there is very little known of the ancient druids who were

> > priest astrologers, though their astro monuments still dominate

> horizons.

> > However, all cultures share the story of the great flood, so perhaps at

> > the end of the day it isn't one race, tribe or culture pre 4000 bce

> which

> > swept away the historical heritage, but global disasters caused by

> > interplanetary influences.

> > best wishes

> > M

> >

> > -

> > kishore patnaik

> >

<%40><%40>

> > Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:50 AM

> > Re: Basic principles

> >

> > Dear Marg,

> >

> > ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

> > India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> > corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

> > and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

> > our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> > questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

> > facts?'

> >

> > Very well said.

> >

> > Bible knew only history for the last 4000 years and it made a chronology

> > of

> > the same. Just like indian puranas which will make trace a dynasty till

> > the oldest known person and then declare that his father is Manu (first

> > person) or brhma (ie his father's name is not known), Bible also has

> > declared that the father of the earliest known person is Adam.

> >

> > This has been wrongly interpreted as the universe being 4000 years old,

> > which is any way nonsense.

> >

> > But the britishers and their european stooges such as Max Mueller was so

> > bigotic that they tried to fit the indian history within these 4000

> years.

> > Very funnily, they have tried doing this on the basis of language,

> without

> > knowing that Sanskrit of the Rgveda and other vedas literally remained

> > changeless for god knows how many ages.

> >

> > you can differentiate between victorian english and today's english but

> > can

> > you differentiate between sanskrit of my grand father's grand father's

> > time

> > and my time? It remained without change, if you compare any outstanding

> > work

> > on sanskrit of 21st century and that of 17th century.

> >

> > It is really unfortunate that free Indians who want proof for every

> change

> > proposed in the dating of ancient Indian history have no arguements

> before

> > the dating proposed on a blatantly foolish surmise that universe is 4000

> > years old.

> >

> > regards,

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> > 98492 70729

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Marg

 

Truly and our effort should be a recognition of " psychotic " groups and to

stop them from further damage. We have already lost a wealth of knowledge

from Egyptian, Persian, Ancient Indian, Mayan, Mesopotamian and other

civilizations who perished or continue to perish under constant onslaught.

 

I also agree that many civilizations have been focused on learning and have

not known ever to be aggressive.

 

The study of Mayan civilization is fascinating and I eagerly look forward to

reading Sri Kishore's reply on the same.

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

 

On Nov 18, 2007 2:58 PM, Marg <margie9 wrote:

 

> Namaste Bharat

>

> Many civilisations such as India were not warmongerers. In fact the

> ancient druids of Europe were also considered to be peace loving and devout

> people, which is why England was invaded over and again to the extent of

> extermination of its ancient people, who were possible Druid. many Greek

> books refer to this fact.

>

> It is just that some nations are more aggressive than others and so this

> upsets the balance, but this is the karma of existence.

>

> Of course you take great pride in your heritage, this is only natural for

> anyone to do. Yes I agree it is the psychotic need of some to impose their

> religious beliefs onto others which has been the primary cause for

> unpleasantness which in the extreme has meant that whole nations have been

> hounded, persecuted, if not exterminated just because one or two people

> think their belief is the only true belief and then seeks to bludgeon anyone

> who disagree.

> As you say, is should be enough to be able to take contentment in being

> 'Indian'..........Chinese, Egyptain, new Zealander...whatever, without

> forcing genetic fall-out!

> best wishes

> M

>

> I

>

> -

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology

> <%40>

> Saturday, November 17, 2007 10:51 AM

> Re: Basic principles

>

> Namaste Sri Marg

>

> The history is corrupted everywhere. It is corrupted even in countries

> which

> have not been invaded. One of the biggest corruption has come by way of

> aggressive " religions " . Church is known to corrupt the interpretations of

> texts of different religions and subject other religion's followers to

> extreme punishments. Nowadays, it is the turn of the Muslims to do so.

> This

> is mainly done to remain popular by showing others down and by extensive

> use

> force and bribery. Similarly, to maintain political power, many political

> leaders and groups subject the History to its shameful illusions. Like it

> is

> said, had Hitler won the war, history till 1945 would have been very

> different from what it is now.

>

> Our scriptures especially the Vedas were preserved through lineage of

> Master-Student relationships and through Maths. The same cannot be said of

> Astrology. Astrology, considered as Devil worship by Church and by others,

> was subject to maximum destruction. Many of the texts were destroyed or

> corrupted.

>

> When the Greek invaded India, it was Chanakya who stopped the cultural

> invasion through his band of student warriors led by the great

> Chandragupta

> Maurya. Similarly, we have had great teachers, self realized saints, and

> others who have brought back our culture to its glory time and again. If

> you

> see the fight for freedom and the Satyagraha, it has its roots in our

> culture, and it was done to bring back our way of life.

>

> The division of country is a living proof of the separative and dangerous

> tendencies of aggressive religions. All those who live in Pakistan were

> once

> Hindus. They were converted by force or by greed of gains by the Mughal

> rulers. Those brothers were made to hate their homeland so much so as to

> separate from it. Furthermore, even today there is hatred being generated

> against their own brothers in India. So if you ask me who is a Pakistani -

> I

> would say he is Hindu who has forgotten himself and believes himself to a

> part of an alien culture and thinks of killing his own brothers in India.

> So

> the corruption has occurred, but, we must know the cause of it.

>

> Similarly, one day one fellow indian made fun of Indians and sent an email

> to me too - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I wrote a reply to him, which

> I

> reproduce below and perhaps it can answer " Who is an Indian " . This was in

> year 1999 or 2000. Please pardon the typos and grammar errors as I wrote

> it

> in one go that time. Reproducing the exact version.

>

> *Just Be an Indian*

>

> *Somebody sent me an e-mail. The question asked was " Are you proud to be

> an Indian? " The contents of the e-mail were a pun on Indianness.*

>

> *This e-mail was doing circles all over the world. It was then decided by

> me

> to clear things up with many persons who are not aware of their culture

> which is born out of fine Indian wisdom. I reproduce my answer.*

>

> The question asked was - " Are you proud to be an Indian? " I modify this

> question and ask - " Are you an Indian? " Because if you are an Indian then

> it

> is enough. You do not need pride then. You are so inspired from within

> that

> you do not need the crutches of pride. Being an Indian is enough.

>

> The problem with many so called Indians is that they are not Indians at

> all.

> Indian culture and its vastness, probably, cannot enter their narrow and

> self-centered minds. Knowing our culture is enough. It engrains such

> Indianness that even by living a whole life time in foreign lands it does

> not get eroded.

>

> *The Fundamental Principle*

>

> Our culture is such that it is based on one principle - " Tat Twam Asi "

> (Sanskrit). It is a universal principle. It means " That thou Art " meaning

> YOU ARE THAT. It means that whatever you are seeking to become is already

> you.

>

> A little explanation will help us understand this. A man surely wants two

> things in life - Securities (Artha) and Pleasure (Kama). This feelings are

> there because one feels insecure and unpleasant. In other words " I lack

> security " and " I lack pleasures " . To gain securities one has to study and

> work hard but a person always found lacking. Moreover a person wants to

> have

> pleasures. For this he needs to spend his securities. Therefore, your

> efforts towards securities bring a loss in pleasures and your efforts

> towards pleasures bring a loss in securities. Therefore, you are always

> found lacking. What is the way out of this vicious circle? Our wise men

> never did say that you leave pleasures and Securities because they

> identified these as goals. But they also were wise enough to know that

> these

> were not goals in themselves because they did not satisfy you.

>

> Please think, do you want money for money's sake or for your own sake? It

> is

> for your own sake that you want pleasures and securities. Even when you

> sacrifice these for some other person then it for your own sake that you

> are

> following Dharma (the third human pursuit). So all three pursuits are

> pursuits for oneself. Only to remove the feeling that " I lack " . Our saints

> and sages recognized that the problem was not in lacking securities or

> pleasure but the problem was in this wrong notion that " I lack " .

>

> I ask you a question - How much happiness do you want in life? Your answer

> cannot be anything less than infinite. It is your desire to have infinite

> happiness but the efforts are only put to pursue finite objects. Finite +

> Finite is not equal to Infinite. Only in being infinity that one gains

> infinite happiness. That infinite is you. So what you pursue is you. This

> is

> the meaning of the statement TAT TWAM ASI.

>

> Now, your question is - How can you say that I am Infinite? You give your

> logic - When I am in office I am not at home. Infact, when I am in chair I

> am not on the table. So I am a limited being. Your statement is incorrect.

>

> This is your reply.

>

> I can also see this logic and still I say that you are Anantam (Infinite).

> Please read carefully:

>

> Anything natural is not a matter for complaint. When your eyes see

> perfectly, do you complain to an eye specialist? No, you do not. You only

> complain when your eyes do not see properly, say, when a dust particle

> goes

> in your eye. Because vision is natural to eyes so there is no complaint in

> case it is perfect vision. You only complain in case of unnatural things.

> Similarly, you view yourself. You complain that you lack. It means this

> notion that I lack is some foreign notion to You. " I lack " is limitedness.

> So limitlessness is your nature. Similarly, can you stand ignorance? No.

> you

> cannot so you natural state is Knowledge. That is why our spiritual

> scientists say that you are Sat (existence), Chit (Knowledge) and Ananda

> (limitlessness). This is your true state.

>

> Such a person who recognize this within is called a God -Realized person.

> Because whom we call as God is nothing but All knowing (Gnanam), All

> Existence (Sat) and All Pervading (Anandam). Hence, it is only Indian

> culture which recognizes correctly the very man as the very God. It is not

> your body or mind which you are aware of as limited but it is the

> AWARENESS

> itself which is not bound by anything.

>

> This principle shows in our culture. See for yourself:

>

> *Salient Features:*

>

> · We can pray to God in any manner we like through any object or

> animal or tree. It is not idol worship. It is a subtle recognition that

> all

> is nothing but God. God being infinite pervades everything. In fact, when

> we

> pray to the stone in front of us, we do not say " Hey stone! please fulfill

> our wishes! " ...We say " Hey God! Please fulfill our wishes! " This shows

> clearly how grand our culture is. Foolish people think that praying to a

> stone is nonsense. Nobody in India prays to stone we only pray to the Lord

> in the stone and as the stone.

>

> · We put Tilak on our forehead. Why? It is because we are

> auspiciousness itself. The tilak represents auspiciousness. Nothing but

> the

> Lord is auspicious and hence we again recognize the Lord in us as us.

>

> · We do Namaskar to everybody. Why? Because we recognize that the

> Lord is there in all as all.

>

> · In South, each person calls unknown people as " Swami " . Why?

> Because they recognize the Lord is there is all as all.

>

> · Our Music and our form of Dances are depicting the same. They are

> expressions of the same knowledge.

>

> · We are probably the only country which is truly secular because we

> understand that any person from any caste and creed can pray to the Lord

> in

> any way it is acceptable, for Lord only is.

>

> There are many more such principles. The list is endless. I can go on and

> on

> but for the intelligent only an indication is enough.

>

> We do not stop only at culture and religion.

>

> Our Vedic Mathematics is such that one student studied it and is beating

> the

> fastest computers in the world in calculating complex mathematical

> problems.

> She is Shakuntala Devi. There is a book called " Vedic Mathematics " . It is

> published by Motilal BanarasiDass and written by Sri Sankaracharya Bharati

> Krishna Tirthaji Maharaj. It says in 8 1/2 months by studying only 2 hours

> a

> week one can finish the entire course of Mathematics upto Ph.D. level by

> only a average 15 year old student! You know where this Mathematics has

> come

> from - from the Atharvana Veda in an appendix in only 16 mantras. So, we

> did

> not only give the world the idea of zero and infinity but also of the

> entire

> mathematics. Excellent research is going on in Germany and Britain on

> Vedic

> Mathematics as also in Benaras Hindu University.

>

> Our understanding of our Solar system has always been better than all.

> Nearly 4000 years ago we knew the exact motion of all these planets and

> their relation to the life forms and Natural Forces on Earth. Our Jyotish,

> knew exactly how to calculate the position of the planets and relate it to

> a

> person's life. They knew how each event affects so many other events. A

> principle which Physics is discovering now. If you go through, " The

> history

> of time " by Stephen Hawking this principle of a Light Cone in Time and

> Space

> dimension is explained.

>

> Our Jyotish Scientists were not stupid they knew exactly what were their

> subject's limitations and uses. They were not blind believers but

> scientific

> exponents.

>

> Sanskrit the word means Cultured. Sanskriti comes from this root. So the

> word Culture and its meaning has come from India. The world learnt it from

> India. Sanskrit the language is called the mother if all languages because

> it contains all possible sounds in its script. In fact so structured is

> this

> language that other languages appear only very ordinary and common in

> front

> of it. So well defined are its rules that the computer world it taking to

> Panini's Grammer to sort out their programming problems.

>

> Einstein's theory that matter is not a real thing but an appearance

> because

> it is only energy was always given in the Veda. The Veda has always said

> it

> and proved it that the world is only an appearance and not a Reality. Veda

> recognized that the perceptions can be faulty.

>

> Even as far as Reality is concerned it is us that know it. The whole

> scientific community can never know it.

>

> India despite being very powerful at times has never tried to attack and

> conquer others. It has been only foreigners doing that to India. It is not

> because Indian Rulers were meek but because our wisdom says live and let

> live. Do not eat up other person's land. It is our value. It requires more

> strength not to attack and conquer when you are powerful then to do so.

> For

> uphold of Dharma people have laid their lives. Even in front of death they

> have not buckled. Infact, such is our value system that whenever we have

> cared to follow it - it has been a golden period in history and whenever

> we

> have flouted it we have been made as slaves.

>

> But we have always recognized the same values again and again and

> established Dharma. I see the current situation as slightly equal to our

> earlier conditions but I have full faith in our Indianness. I have full

> faith in the Cultural Values. I have full faith in the wisdom of this land

> as you have faith that the day will follow the night.

>

> Our Indianness is too deep-rooted to be shattered. It has stood the test

> of

> time. It had stood trials and tribulations. It will stand this meek

> corruption and politics also.

>

> " Satyamev Jayate " - Truth Prevails is not only on our emblem but is from

> the

> Veda. Uphold the " Satyam " and see it prevail.

>

> You see, I do not need to be proud, I only have to be an Indian. And being

> an Indian means a personification of its culture.

>

> Thanks and Regards

>

> Bharat

>

> On Nov 17, 2007 4:47 AM, Marg <margie9<margie9%40talktalk.net>>

> wrote:

>

> > Dear friends of the list

> >

> > Query, sorry to attend this issue which distracts from astrology.....or

> > maybe it throws new light on the evolution of astrological principles?

> >

> > Given the Brit rule of India, and subsequent impact, is it now

> appropriate

> > to say that the Brit project of sending Moslems to the new divide of the

> > country called Pakistan was a vile attempt to resolve issues plaguing

> India

> > at the time.

> > Also the Parthian (Persian---Arab) invasion of India of peoples from

> > Persia so influenced by the Greeks, is that an impact which is so

> minimal on

> > the culture it is not even important in the light of the Brit

> occupation?

> >

> > Is it true that all of India wants Moslems to return to their homeland

> in

> > India so that peace can be restored, and the Brit invasion therefore

> > nullified as a result?

> >

> > How did India resolve its Mongolian invasion--(Chinese background) and

> its

> > other invasions pre Brit occupation?

> >

> > British. MMMmmm who exactly is British? American? Who exactly is

> > American??? The American Indians perhaps? Indian? Who exactly is

> Indian??

> > Does not the impact of invasion upon invasion declare that no-one on the

> > planet is pure anything???

> >

> > Best wishes

> > M

> >

> > Quote I am responding to, an interesting point:-

> >

> > ''Simple question. Does anyone acknowledge that during British rule in

> > India (for over 250 years) so much of Indian history has been

> > corrupted (I mean modified in a way to degrade our culture, religion

> > and heritage)? Thus, any attempt before we even dream of questioning

> > our traditions/culture/systems should be preceded by self-

> > questioning 'Am I the right person to do this? Do I really have the

> > facts?'

> >

> >