RE: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding your chart, which you had made reference of it. In your chart you

wrote " My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both lordships

manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence. "

 

 

 

I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as well, Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio 3:2.

 

So your experiences are all in line with Ashtakavarga as well.

 

I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try to.

 

I will write all my findings in the terms of Parasara (which are all used in

KAS to get the power in numerical format)

 

Mars is in 4:10 with Sun and Mercury. Mars is yogakarak for the chart.

(upto here this is given in Parasara about yogakarak that for cancer lagna,

Ma is yogakarak). Now here Ma is in 4:10 with sun, this is given as

parasparakaraka or mutual cosignificators I believe. Ma has 2 bindus and

Sun has 4 bindus. Ma is natural 1st lord and 8th lord and Sun is natural

5th lord therefore Karak for 6th and 1st has got control and power from the

natural karak for authority, making this chart very powerful. Mars then is

in karak sthan from Moon as well which is lagnesh and Mo which is lagna lord

is in the navamsa of Aqu therefore its samdharmi to Shani who is placed in

lagna and is in 6th from Aqu i.e. its own house in Rasi. Now, navamsa

depositor is also considered here as you are considering as per parasara.

 

Lagna, and Mars have become very powerful in this chart and that is

required for becoming a Strong Prime Minister who is capable of taking and

implementing difficult decisions. Sun is also in the sign of Scorpio and

it's a fixed sign as well and in navamsa also its in Leo which is again its

own sign and fixed sign and the Karakansha is again in 5th house in Rasi

which is the karak of authority and the mool karak for parakram or 3rd

house. This powerful sun is giving power to Mars .

 

Coming to Jupiter, Jupiter is in 6th house from 6th house of the chart i.e

in Taurus. This will make Guru very powerful as the Karak for 11th house

i.e. 6th lord is in 6th house or Upchay sthan and in other words, Karak has

come to Phal sthan. This makes Guru very powerful and its in Retro. Upto

here also all this is given by Parasara about Upchay sthan i.e. the house of

growth, heap and prosperity. In addition, Guru as 9th lord is in 3rd house

from 9th but at the same time its in 8th house from Libra. Therefore the

status of Guru has become very powerful. Now Guru is again in navamsa of

Taurus i.e. vargottam. Venus is placed in 6th house in Rasi so it will give

conflicts and enemies. Venus is also in Karak sthan from Guru.

 

Coming to Shani. Shani too is in 6th house form 8th house. This will give

the Prime Minister very powerful personality. I believe Sa in Cancer in

lagna is referred to as a Raj yog or Maharaj yog. Again the same principle

of upchaya i.e the karak i.e. functional karak for lagna is 8th and its lord

is in Lagna the same way, Ju is in 6th from Sag in Tau.

 

Now here, in this case to elucidate the point of MT taking precedence, here

Sa rules 7th and 8th house and if you check the SAV, you will see that both

7th and 8th house have 1 bindu each. So in this case, MT will take

precedence of the 2 i.e. Sa is with equal power representing 7th house and

8th house lord but here MT will take precedence.

 

Saturn as 7th lord is eager to give 10th house result and so is Mercury as

they are upchaya from both karak and phal sthan i.e here I am focused on

10th house. Same way, for success and income, 11th house , Sa is 8th house

lord i.e .10th from 11th and a powerful upchay. So Sa is a powerful antra

to give income and authority for the prime minister.

 

Saturn is again in navamsa of Capricorn in navamsa which is the 7th house of

Rasi. The karak for Authority is Mangal and that has become very powerful

as I have talked above.

 

Next we will talk of Mool Karak, and that is mercury and again that is in

6th house from 12th house its own sign. So here again, the results of 12th

house are enhanced. So mool karak has come into the karak sthan for

Authority.

 

Regarding marriage, 6th lord is not conducive to the result of marriage and

status of Venus and Guru are to be noted. Here Guru is the 6th lord (as it

has more power as compared to 9th house) so it will have proportionally more

power to do damage to 7th house matters. Guru is also natural mool karak

i.e. karak of Venus or natural 9th lord.

 

Here Guru is powerful in SAV as it has 6 bindus. Therefore it will aspect

7th house and 2nd lord i.e. phal sthan and Karak with malefic dristi and it

will destroy or depart her husband from her. This ju will become very

malefic. Venus is also spoilt i.e. the natural karak as it is 47 deg away

from Sun and its aspected by Saturn and it is in 6th house and conjoined by

Ra. Here Sa is aspecting Ve in navamsa. This also spoils marital life and

happiness.

 

12th lord is in 5th house and results of 12th house and karak for 5th house

are enhanced. She also has blessings as lagna and 9th lord from lagna and

moon are in nav pancham 5:9. Here child also became the prime minister i.e

Rajiv Gandhi. The blessing from her father helped her become the prime

minister as well.

 

Guru and Mars are powerful to give Indira Gandhi good power to 1st house of

SELF. Ju is 6th lord and Mars is 10th lord both are powerful upchaya. Both

these lords have become powerful.

 

 

 

I will refer to what you wrote in a point by point manner

 

You wrote

 

" For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly.

 

Ash : I have given the calculation of that, as we use it in KAS. i.e a

layer of AV is used to judge the bindus to see in which sign does Jupiter

getting more bindus or in other words, in which sign does Jupiter making

good relation with 7th planets and lagna. So that becomes the basis of

comparison. Next if there is a tie breaker i.e. if both are equal then MT

will take precedence. This is as per VA only and as you say as per

Parasara.

 

Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-) "

 

 

 

Ash : Yes, Ju is 6th and 9th lord, so to ascertain Ju is more powerful as

which sign lord we judge the SAV power i.e. bindu. So in the chart of

Indira Gandhi, Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 in 9th house therefore it

will act more like 6th lord in the proportion of 5:4. Now here 6th house is

also MT. What you are doing is for each and every chart you will consider

MT to be more powerful irrespective of AV bindus obtained i.e you are

ignoring the yog power that Ju gets support in each house and are using the

Sign to determine. But at the same time you are saying that it will act

like both but more like MT. So in KAS, we ALSO check the yogs power of the

planet in the dual house it owns and then are able to determine the

proportion who it will be more like and then if in case of tie breaker then

we go for MT. So by adding a layer of SAV, you can get more precise value.

So here in Indira Gandhi's chart and also in your chart, what you have

observed is also in line with KAS i.e. by adding another layer of SAV. So

for Indira Gandhi its 5:4 with 6th house having 5 bindus which is also MT

and in your chart as well Ju as 3rd and 12th lord Ju has 2 and 3 bindus

respectively with 12th house getting 3 therefore the ratio will be 3:2 in

favor of MT.

 

Ju is also 6th lord and its aspect on 7th house and 2nd lord Sun has also

not given her marital happiness. Venus is also spoilt as its distance to

Sun is 47 deg and aspected by Saturn and Saturn aspects a luminary. Venus

is also in 6th house. Venus also conjoins Rahu in 6th house. Jupiter is

retro as well and as per KAS it enhances the result of the house it is

placed in and the house its karak for. I do not know if Parasara has said

this, so you can please clarify. Now Ju is natural karak for children and

its children and karak for family has enhanced the status of her family and

children as well. Venus is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and Ju

is in the navamsa of Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord is

Venus. Her daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today. So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.

 

In order to overcome rivals, her Mars and individuality must also be strong

which it is as I have explained in this mail. She also must be intelligent

so if you check her navamsa, Dreshkon and Trishansa she has 3 sectors

falling in the sign of Saturn and 2 in Mercury i.e. lagna sun and moon

(parasara has told to check all laws from lagna sun and moon so that is

being followed here as well). She has 1 sector in Sun and 2 of mars showing

daring and leadership qualities as well. This is her inner nature and

intelligence.

 

Ju is 6th lord and its 10th lord or upchay for 9th house and therefore it

will also be eager to bestow luck to her or help grow her 9th house. So I

agree with you regarding luck and 6th house relation.

 

 

 

Phew, it's a long email.

 

I would like to thank you for citing Indira Gandhi's chart which I had not

studied in this much detail till now. All the laws I have used are all

given by parasara and other seers. In all of this I have not discussed

timing of event but general VA. There is so much more depth to which one

can go to, but its not possible to on email.

 

The essence of the mail is that when planets are in upchay or the lords of

the upchay they help grow the signification of the house. In Indira

Gandhi's chart, Ju, Sa, Me are in 6th from own house and Ma is in 10th from

own house.

 

In Navamsa, Sa is in own house, Ju is in 6th from own house, Ma is in 6th

from own house, Ve is in 6th from own house and in MT,

 

 

Wendy, just see your chart as well. Saturn is in 6th from 1st house.

Making your 1st house very powerful along with 30 bindus. Your Mars is in

10th from Sun and Venus and your Mars has 3 bindus and Ve and Sun have 4

each. Similar in many ways like Indira Gandhi. This makes Mars very

powerful and your individuality. You too have 4 sectors of Mercury i.e

lagna sun and moon falling in sectors of Mercury making your very brilliant

and clever. Your Jupiter is in 7th house with 3 bindus and its in 10th

place from Moon with 7 bindus. This is a very powerful Gaj Kesari Yog where

your Guru will become very powerful. You cannot tolerate injustice or

persons who cheat. So a person with strong Guru and Mars become more

spiritual as its natural 1st and 9th lord and 12th and 8th lord of Kalpurush

chart. Gives good name and fame and powerful individuality (mars) and

powerful 9th and 12th house results so luck and the path to moksh (enjoyment

and happiness and bliss).

 

 

I hope I have not caused any confusion.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya [jyotish-vidya ]

On Behalf Of Ash's Corner

Sunday March 1, 2009 1:19 PM

jyotish-vidya

RE: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding the precedence of MT over own sign (Continuation)

 

If you check Indira Gandhi's chart, then check the SAV points of Ju in 6th

and 9th house. Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 bindus in 9th house. In

Indira Gandhi's chart MT will take precedence. Even if 9th and 6th had

equal bindus, still MT would take precedence.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

Ash's Corner <Corner%40ashtro.ca>

[kas <kas%40ashtro.ca> ]

Sunday March 1, 2009 1:11 PM

'jyotish-vidya

<%27jyotish-vidya%40> '

RE: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Wendy,

 

You had asked for opinion and I gave my opinion. No need to lecture me on

what is list policy of JV as I am aware of it and many a times I have sent

mails first to your private email address to make sure that it would not

create any confusion.

 

I would like to comment on 2 things only to keep the record straight as you

I believe are making statements without proper knowledge or understanding of

KAS.

 

Regarding the precedence of MT over own sign.

 

Definitely, MT will take over precedence and that is correct, however, we

first check the bindus obtained in each house. So if Ju rules 3rd and 6th

then we check the bindus or Ju's power in each house. Say if Ju has 3

bindus in 3rd and 4 bindus in 6th house then Jupiter is more towards 6th

house lord and lesser in proportion as 3rd lord. That ratio would be 3:4.

 

Now if say 3rd is Sag and 6th is Pisces then we weigh that. Now if Ju has

more power in Pisces i.e lets say 4 bindus vs Sag has 3 then Ju will be more

towards as lord of pisces in proportion of 4:3. If both lords have equal

power say if both had 5 bindus each then MT will be more powerful.

 

If you are using Yogas as given by Parasara then SAV gives us the relation

and power and the bindus i.e. yogs give by Guru in say 3rd vs 6th. If Guru

has more power i.e say 4 bindus in 6th house which is pisces means its

having more positive power i.e. yogas in 6th compared to 3rd if 3rd house

has say 3 bindus.

 

Regarding Vimshottari Dasha

 

Vimshottari dasha is used in KAS only (I think you know this, but if not,

please make a note of it).

 

KAS and unique system

 

Systems Approach is a creation by Professor VK Choudhary. KAS is a part of

VA and has been kept in the lineage of Krushna ji's Guru ji. All the laws

of VA are followed only in the system of KAS. Please make a note of this as

well. From what you have written, it seems that you are under the

impression that all this KAS is a new creation and that what makes it

unique.

 

Regarding discussion of Indira Gandhi's chart

 

I shall not write on that here as I don't think you or anyone else will

understand it.

 

My Opinion

 

In my opinion KAS is part and parcel of VA. All the laws of VA are followed

as given by Parasara. Ashtakavarga is used to find the power of planet

instead of sign placement. Now Ashtakavarga is given by Parasara,

Vimshottari dasha is given, the 3 aspects of Ju, Ma and Sa are given, the

planets sign placement is same, the MT and Exaltation i.e. sign and bindu

wise are also given and same as given by parasara, aspects as per parasara

is used which is same as given by Parasara, 4:10 principle which are mutual

Significators are used which is given by parasara, samdharmis are given by

parasara which are planest in same sign, same nakshatra, navamsa depositer,

4:10) and upchay theory which is also given by Parasara. Vimshottari dasha

is used in KAS which is given by Parasara as well. D chart are also used

which are as per parasara.

 

Let me know what is not as per Parasara so I can make a note of it.

 

 

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>

[jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40> ]

On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Sunday March 1, 2009 10:41 AM

jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>

Re: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Ash,

 

For the sake of clarity I'd like to respond to just one point made in the

preface " Intro to Krushna's Ashtakavarga System " .

 

Preface:

///For a Cancer ascendant, Jupiter is the lord of the sixth and the ninth

house. Confusion

arises when we have to consider which lord to take into consideration.///

 

Parasara makes it quite clear that Moolatrikona takes precedence over Own

Sign. For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly. Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-)

 

Of course Indira Gandhi did face reversals at certain times, due, I

believe, to Jupiter being in retrograde motion.

 

For my part, at least, there is no confusion as to which lordship should

be considered...both have a role to play. My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence.

 

As we both know, Ash, Krushna's Ashtakavarga System is a unique system of

prediction. In much the same way that V.K. Choudhry's " Systems Approach "

is a unique system. Here on JV we endeavour to follow Parasara's

(preferred) Vimsottari system.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Ash's Corner <Corner%40ashtro.ca>

<Corner%40ashtro.ca> " <kas <kas%40ashtro.ca>

<kas%40ashtro.ca> >

<jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>

<jyotish-vidya%40>

>

Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:58 PM

RE: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Ashtakavarga is to gauge the power of a planet. When charting the SAV,

one

automatically covers all the yoga's which are based on the relative

position

from each other and lagna. Ashtakavarga and powers found from it can be

used to find the timing of event. One must know Vedic portion first and

then can use Ashtakavarga system to pin point the timing of events. In

KAS,

we use the upchay system along with Ashtakavarga and VA portion i.e.

consideration of upchay houses and its lords, aspects on house, planets,

consideration of 6th lord and 12th lord from any house etc etc to come to

the final power for all 7 planets for all 12 houses in a numerical format

and then calculate the powers in all 16 D charts for all 7 planets and in

all 12 houses respectively. So we can get the power of each and every

planet and in each and every house using Ashtakavarga. Yes, in D charts,

we

do not consider the powers gained due to 4:10 and aspects on house /

planets, we just add the power in the primary upchay house. This is as

per

KAS system. I do not know how others take this into consideration.

 

So, in summary, Ashtakavarga is used to find the power of planet and in

ashtakavarga, we consider the yog's and bindus so the positive yogs that

a

planet makes with respect to each other and lagna. The sign placement is

not considered for judging the power of planet. The sign placement is

used

to find the quality.

 

Let us take an example, take Jupiter is in Capricorn and say one is

studying

event of marriage for timing of it, then after delay period if antra of

Jupiter is running and Jupiter has more than 12 points i.e. cumulative

then

it will give a happy event so if the marriage is judged as happy (based

on

certain laws of VA), then for timing of event, under certain conditions

(i.e

it should not aspect 2nd, 7th or 11th with the exception if its 4th or

12th

lord) then it can give marriage. So upto here we have not factored in

the

sign placement but used Ashtakavarga to judge the power of Guru.

 

Next is to judge the quality so the first step is to consider the Sign

placement so here its in the sign of neecha so the Multiplication factor

for

Ju in Capricorn is 0.8 so u can multiply the total power obtained from

above

and multiply by 0.8 to gauge the " sign backing " .

 

Without Ashtakavarga, as per the standard texts the way one tries to

obtain

the power of a planet primarily using the sign and then navamsa position,

d

charts and yogas.

 

So if one see's sun in libra or Guru in Capricorn in Rasi then one says

its

weakened then u will study the depositor to gauge the power of Ju as

well,

then u might study the navamsa to ascertain its navamsa depositor etc

etc,

means in some way or the other, one is trying to find / gauge the power

of a

planet to deliver the result.

 

There is a misconception that Ashtakavarga is used to fine tune the

events

based on Transits. On the contrary the whole system is based on relative

positioning of planets w.r.t each other and lagna. With Ashtakavarga it

eliminates the need to remember all the yogas and their contra's as its

covered in SAV.

 

So once u cast the SAV that is just the beginning. Then to gauge the

total

power of planets, the principle of Vedic Astrology have to be applied,

i.e.

4:10 principle which is called parasparak karak I believe, next is

consideration of upchay lords i.e. secondary upchay after that we need

to

consider planets aspecting planets and the primary upchay house. So if

one

is trying to find everything from SAV then he or she might be able to use

transits only. But if one applies the full system then one can find the

timing of event.

 

So in standard texts only SAV is given and then some other portion is

given

like trikona reduction and some such method which do not work

consistently.

 

Now you can call this supplemental or portion that is missing from VA or

whatsoever, but it gives us very clear method to find the timing of

event.

 

I hope this helps,

Cheers !!!

Ash - http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash,

 

Many thanks for your mail :-)

 

///I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as

well, Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio

3:2.///

 

It's quite possible that my understanding is wrong here, but, looking at

the Samudaya Ashtakavarga chart (my horoscope) Jupiter has 4 points in

12th and 4 in 6th...?

Also if, as you say, the dominant bhava is the one with more SAV points,

then Parasara's dictum that moolatrikona is dominant loses credibility,

surely?

 

///I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.///

 

I do appreciate the effort you've put into delineating this chart and I'm

keen to go through it leisurely so as to not miss any of your points.

Unfortunately time is against me at the moment...hopefully this evening

sometime I will be able to spend some time on this (absorbing what you

say).

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Ash's Corner " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:34 AM

RE: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding your chart, which you had made reference of it. In your chart

you

wrote " My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships

manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence. "

 

 

 

I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as well,

Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio 3:2.

 

So your experiences are all in line with Ashtakavarga as well.

 

I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.

 

I will write all my findings in the terms of Parasara (which are all used

in

KAS to get the power in numerical format)

 

Mars is in 4:10 with Sun and Mercury. Mars is yogakarak for the chart.

(upto here this is given in Parasara about yogakarak that for cancer

lagna,

Ma is yogakarak). Now here Ma is in 4:10 with sun, this is given as

parasparakaraka or mutual cosignificators I believe. Ma has 2 bindus and

Sun has 4 bindus. Ma is natural 1st lord and 8th lord and Sun is natural

5th lord therefore Karak for 6th and 1st has got control and power from

the

natural karak for authority, making this chart very powerful. Mars then

is

in karak sthan from Moon as well which is lagnesh and Mo which is lagna

lord

is in the navamsa of Aqu therefore its samdharmi to Shani who is placed

in

lagna and is in 6th from Aqu i.e. its own house in Rasi. Now, navamsa

depositor is also considered here as you are considering as per parasara.

 

Lagna, and Mars have become very powerful in this chart and that is

required for becoming a Strong Prime Minister who is capable of taking

and

implementing difficult decisions. Sun is also in the sign of Scorpio and

it's a fixed sign as well and in navamsa also its in Leo which is again

its

own sign and fixed sign and the Karakansha is again in 5th house in Rasi

which is the karak of authority and the mool karak for parakram or 3rd

house. This powerful sun is giving power to Mars .

 

Coming to Jupiter, Jupiter is in 6th house from 6th house of the chart

i.e

in Taurus. This will make Guru very powerful as the Karak for 11th house

i.e. 6th lord is in 6th house or Upchay sthan and in other words, Karak

has

come to Phal sthan. This makes Guru very powerful and its in Retro.

Upto

here also all this is given by Parasara about Upchay sthan i.e. the house

of

growth, heap and prosperity. In addition, Guru as 9th lord is in 3rd

house

from 9th but at the same time its in 8th house from Libra. Therefore the

status of Guru has become very powerful. Now Guru is again in navamsa of

Taurus i.e. vargottam. Venus is placed in 6th house in Rasi so it will

give

conflicts and enemies. Venus is also in Karak sthan from Guru.

 

Coming to Shani. Shani too is in 6th house form 8th house. This will

give

the Prime Minister very powerful personality. I believe Sa in Cancer in

lagna is referred to as a Raj yog or Maharaj yog. Again the same

principle

of upchaya i.e the karak i.e. functional karak for lagna is 8th and its

lord

is in Lagna the same way, Ju is in 6th from Sag in Tau.

 

Now here, in this case to elucidate the point of MT taking precedence,

here

Sa rules 7th and 8th house and if you check the SAV, you will see that

both

7th and 8th house have 1 bindu each. So in this case, MT will take

precedence of the 2 i.e. Sa is with equal power representing 7th house

and

8th house lord but here MT will take precedence.

 

Saturn as 7th lord is eager to give 10th house result and so is Mercury

as

they are upchaya from both karak and phal sthan i.e here I am focused on

10th house. Same way, for success and income, 11th house , Sa is 8th

house

lord i.e .10th from 11th and a powerful upchay. So Sa is a powerful

antra

to give income and authority for the prime minister.

 

Saturn is again in navamsa of Capricorn in navamsa which is the 7th house

of

Rasi. The karak for Authority is Mangal and that has become very

powerful

as I have talked above.

 

Next we will talk of Mool Karak, and that is mercury and again that is in

6th house from 12th house its own sign. So here again, the results of

12th

house are enhanced. So mool karak has come into the karak sthan for

Authority.

 

Regarding marriage, 6th lord is not conducive to the result of marriage

and

status of Venus and Guru are to be noted. Here Guru is the 6th lord (as

it

has more power as compared to 9th house) so it will have proportionally

more

power to do damage to 7th house matters. Guru is also natural mool karak

i.e. karak of Venus or natural 9th lord.

 

Here Guru is powerful in SAV as it has 6 bindus. Therefore it will

aspect

7th house and 2nd lord i.e. phal sthan and Karak with malefic dristi and

it

will destroy or depart her husband from her. This ju will become very

malefic. Venus is also spoilt i.e. the natural karak as it is 47 deg

away

from Sun and its aspected by Saturn and it is in 6th house and conjoined

by

Ra. Here Sa is aspecting Ve in navamsa. This also spoils marital life

and

happiness.

 

12th lord is in 5th house and results of 12th house and karak for 5th

house

are enhanced. She also has blessings as lagna and 9th lord from lagna

and

moon are in nav pancham 5:9. Here child also became the prime minister

i.e

Rajiv Gandhi. The blessing from her father helped her become the prime

minister as well.

 

Guru and Mars are powerful to give Indira Gandhi good power to 1st house

of

SELF. Ju is 6th lord and Mars is 10th lord both are powerful upchaya.

Both

these lords have become powerful.

 

 

 

I will refer to what you wrote in a point by point manner

 

You wrote

 

" For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly.

 

Ash : I have given the calculation of that, as we use it in KAS. i.e a

layer of AV is used to judge the bindus to see in which sign does Jupiter

getting more bindus or in other words, in which sign does Jupiter making

good relation with 7th planets and lagna. So that becomes the basis of

comparison. Next if there is a tie breaker i.e. if both are equal then

MT

will take precedence. This is as per VA only and as you say as per

Parasara.

 

Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-) "

 

 

 

Ash : Yes, Ju is 6th and 9th lord, so to ascertain Ju is more powerful as

which sign lord we judge the SAV power i.e. bindu. So in the chart of

Indira Gandhi, Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 in 9th house therefore

it

will act more like 6th lord in the proportion of 5:4. Now here 6th house

is

also MT. What you are doing is for each and every chart you will

consider

MT to be more powerful irrespective of AV bindus obtained i.e you are

ignoring the yog power that Ju gets support in each house and are using

the

Sign to determine. But at the same time you are saying that it will act

like both but more like MT. So in KAS, we ALSO check the yogs power of

the

planet in the dual house it owns and then are able to determine the

proportion who it will be more like and then if in case of tie breaker

then

we go for MT. So by adding a layer of SAV, you can get more precise

value.

So here in Indira Gandhi's chart and also in your chart, what you have

observed is also in line with KAS i.e. by adding another layer of SAV.

So

for Indira Gandhi its 5:4 with 6th house having 5 bindus which is also MT

and in your chart as well Ju as 3rd and 12th lord Ju has 2 and 3 bindus

respectively with 12th house getting 3 therefore the ratio will be 3:2 in

favor of MT.

 

Ju is also 6th lord and its aspect on 7th house and 2nd lord Sun has also

not given her marital happiness. Venus is also spoilt as its distance to

Sun is 47 deg and aspected by Saturn and Saturn aspects a luminary.

Venus

is also in 6th house. Venus also conjoins Rahu in 6th house. Jupiter is

retro as well and as per KAS it enhances the result of the house it is

placed in and the house its karak for. I do not know if Parasara has

said

this, so you can please clarify. Now Ju is natural karak for children

and

its children and karak for family has enhanced the status of her family

and

children as well. Venus is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and

Ju

is in the navamsa of Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord

is

Venus. Her daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today.

So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.

 

In order to overcome rivals, her Mars and individuality must also be

strong

which it is as I have explained in this mail. She also must be

intelligent

so if you check her navamsa, Dreshkon and Trishansa she has 3 sectors

falling in the sign of Saturn and 2 in Mercury i.e. lagna sun and moon

(parasara has told to check all laws from lagna sun and moon so that is

being followed here as well). She has 1 sector in Sun and 2 of mars

showing

daring and leadership qualities as well. This is her inner nature and

intelligence.

 

Ju is 6th lord and its 10th lord or upchay for 9th house and therefore it

will also be eager to bestow luck to her or help grow her 9th house. So

I

agree with you regarding luck and 6th house relation.

 

 

 

Phew, it's a long email.

 

I would like to thank you for citing Indira Gandhi's chart which I had

not

studied in this much detail till now. All the laws I have used are all

given by parasara and other seers. In all of this I have not discussed

timing of event but general VA. There is so much more depth to which one

can go to, but its not possible to on email.

 

The essence of the mail is that when planets are in upchay or the lords

of

the upchay they help grow the signification of the house. In Indira

Gandhi's chart, Ju, Sa, Me are in 6th from own house and Ma is in 10th

from

own house.

 

In Navamsa, Sa is in own house, Ju is in 6th from own house, Ma is in 6th

from own house, Ve is in 6th from own house and in MT,

 

 

Wendy, just see your chart as well. Saturn is in 6th from 1st house.

Making your 1st house very powerful along with 30 bindus. Your Mars is

in

10th from Sun and Venus and your Mars has 3 bindus and Ve and Sun have 4

each. Similar in many ways like Indira Gandhi. This makes Mars very

powerful and your individuality. You too have 4 sectors of Mercury i.e

lagna sun and moon falling in sectors of Mercury making your very

brilliant

and clever. Your Jupiter is in 7th house with 3 bindus and its in 10th

place from Moon with 7 bindus. This is a very powerful Gaj Kesari Yog

where

your Guru will become very powerful. You cannot tolerate injustice or

persons who cheat. So a person with strong Guru and Mars become more

spiritual as its natural 1st and 9th lord and 12th and 8th lord of

Kalpurush

chart. Gives good name and fame and powerful individuality (mars) and

powerful 9th and 12th house results so luck and the path to moksh

(enjoyment

and happiness and bliss).

 

 

I hope I have not caused any confusion.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

[Guest guest]

Apologies:

*Jupiter has 4 points in 12th and 4 in 6th...?*

 

That, of course, should read 2 points in 12th and 6 points in 3rd.

I'd had Bill Clinton's chart up and was looking at his Jupiter in

6th/12th. In a hurry and losing concentration completely, sorry!

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

Dear Ash,

 

Many thanks for your mail :-)

 

///I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as

well, Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio

3:2.///

 

It's quite possible that my understanding is wrong here, but, looking at

the Samudaya Ashtakavarga chart (my horoscope) Jupiter has 4 points in

12th and 4 in 6th...?

Also if, as you say, the dominant bhava is the one with more SAV points,

then Parasara's dictum that moolatrikona is dominant loses credibility,

surely?

 

///I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.///

 

I do appreciate the effort you've put into delineating this chart and I'm

keen to go through it leisurely so as to not miss any of your points.

Unfortunately time is against me at the moment...hopefully this evening

sometime I will be able to spend some time on this (absorbing what you

say).

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

Thanks for your mail. I would like to discuss this point with you.

 

I am my reply below yours.

 

Wendy, if possible, can you or Uttra make the setting of the list into HTML

that way, the colours and fonts will show up making it easy to read. Its

just a suggestion.

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya [jyotish-vidya ]

On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Tuesday March 3, 2009 1:37 AM

jyotish-vidya

Re: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Ash,

 

Many thanks for your mail :-)

 

///I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as

well, Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio

3:2.///

 

It's quite possible that my understanding is wrong here, but, looking at

the Samudaya Ashtakavarga chart (my horoscope) Jupiter has 4 points in

12th and 4 in 6th...?

Also if, as you say, the dominant bhava is the one with more SAV points,

then Parasara's dictum that moolatrikona is dominant loses credibility,

surely?

 

Ash : No, its not exactly that way. These are two different things.

Parasara has talked of Yogas and he has also talked about sign placement and

described the unccha, neecha, mool trikon, friends enemy etc etc.

Now, just because we talk of sign placements that does not mean we can

ignore the yogas for based on relative positioning of the planets, isn't

that so? So lets take an example where your Ju rules 12th and 3rd house and

it has power of 3 in 12th house compared to 2 in 3rd house. So here we are

checking the support that Guru is getting in these house as the basis of

strength i.e. yogas. So here, if we check the next level i.e. in your chart

Ju gets 3 bindus in 12th house and that is due to the support of Ve, Ma and

Mercury making the bindus 3 and if you check your 3rd house, there Guru has

power of 2 and the 2 planets making a favourable yog with Guru are Ma and

Sun.

So here we are using bindus as the base and bindus would mean a positive

yog. Now here again, this will change from chart to chart or based on the

relative positioning of planets. So here by considering the Ashtakavarga

power (bindu) we have judged the power that Guru will have in 12th house and

3rd house. This is based on relative positioning of Guru with 7 other

planets and lagna making it 8 or ashtakavarga. (I am sure you know this,

however I am just writing it for the benefit of those readers who might not

be aware of this).

So if you say that MT (oranges) vs Ashtakavarga (apples) then its not proper

to compare the two. Both of them serve a different angle. With

Ashtakavarga we can get the power of yogas in each house that is under

comparision and get the ratio so in your case its 3:2 for the comparision of

Guru for the 2 house it owns viz-a-viz 12th vs 3rd. So from this we can

gauge that the Guru has more votes in the constituency of 12th house as

compared to his constituency of 3rd house. I am just trying to give an

analogy to explain my point. Now, the 12th house ALSO happens to be the

Mool Trikon sign of Guru and 3rd house is the house it owns i.e Pisces.

So here in case in both the constituencies that Guru has i.e. Sag and pisces

and in Cap lagna for 12th and 3rd we can gauge the power Guru gets due to

the vote of all planets 7 of them and Guru's own position w.r.t lagna as

well to study from all 8 angles that way we consider each and every angle.

In case in both the places if Guru, got the same votes, then Guru would act

more like MT.

Yes, in the case if say Guru were to get say 5 bindus in Pisces and 3 in Sag

then Guru would act more as the lord of Pisces as compared to Sag in the

ration 5:3. So this will change from chart to chart and it will depend on

the planets and their placement and also the placement of Guru w.r.t lagna

as well so from all 8 angles the weightage and ratio of each planet will

vary in each house, so by applying Ashtakavarga we can get a proper

judgement.

In Summary :-

Now that does not mean we are saying that MT is not taking precedence over

the 2nd house the planet rules, but this law remains constant and it is used

as the deciding factor if the bindus in each house is equal. So as per what

you are saying that in ALL charts MT will take precedence over the 2nd house

irrespective of where other planets are or where the planet or the lord of

the house is placed, in each and every case MT will ALWAYS be more powerful

and the 2nd house will be less powerful and there is no other way to find

out the quantum of how much it will be in favour of MT as compared to the

other house it rules.

What I am saying is that with Ashtakavarga, or by considering Ashtakavarga

power of the planet in the 2 houses it rules and in our example Guru and

since it rules 12th and 3rd then by checking Guru's power i.e. we are

considering the yogas from 8 angles to find out in detail who is supporting

guru. That will become the basis of comparision of power and in case if

both have same yogs or getting equal power then MT will take precedence. So

here I am utilizing both things that Parasara has said i.e. Yog support of

SAV and then the MT theory as well. This will change in each chart based on

the planets are placed and the lord of the sign in our case Guru is placed

as well so we cover all 8 angles. We can then also get the ratio in

mathematical terms like 3:2 in favour of which house.

Say, in case of Saturn which is the only planet that can give 0 in the

place it is in, so in some case if Sa is placed in Aqu with 0 bindus and

Capricorn has 4 bindus then Saturn will be more towards Capricorn as in the

sign of Aqu no planet are supporting Saturn despite it being its MT and it

being placed in it. If we go by MT theory only and not consider the SAV or

the Yogas then you will take Sa to be strong in MT in Aqu but in Aqu itself

has no power or no planets are in favour of Sa or lending their support or

casting their vote. So with Astakavarga it can give more clarity.

I hope you have understood what I have tried to explain.

 

 

///I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.///

 

I do appreciate the effort you've put into delineating this chart and I'm

keen to go through it leisurely so as to not miss any of your points.

Unfortunately time is against me at the moment...hopefully this evening

sometime I will be able to spend some time on this (absorbing what you

say).

 

Ash : Thanks Wendy for taking time to understand what I have tried to

explain. It is very difficult to explain something on email though I do

find that. Yes, also please go though my mail and point out the points that

you feel are not in line so either I can try to clarify what I was meaning

to say or I can correct myself and it will be good learning for me.

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Ash's Corner <Corner%40ashtro.ca> " <kas

<kas%40ashtro.ca> >

<jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>

>

Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:34 AM

RE: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding your chart, which you had made reference of it. In your chart

you

wrote " My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships

manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence. "

 

I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as well,

Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio 3:2.

 

So your experiences are all in line with Ashtakavarga as well.

 

I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.

 

I will write all my findings in the terms of Parasara (which are all used

in

KAS to get the power in numerical format)

 

Mars is in 4:10 with Sun and Mercury. Mars is yogakarak for the chart.

(upto here this is given in Parasara about yogakarak that for cancer

lagna,

Ma is yogakarak). Now here Ma is in 4:10 with sun, this is given as

parasparakaraka or mutual cosignificators I believe. Ma has 2 bindus and

Sun has 4 bindus. Ma is natural 1st lord and 8th lord and Sun is natural

5th lord therefore Karak for 6th and 1st has got control and power from

the

natural karak for authority, making this chart very powerful. Mars then

is

in karak sthan from Moon as well which is lagnesh and Mo which is lagna

lord

is in the navamsa of Aqu therefore its samdharmi to Shani who is placed

in

lagna and is in 6th from Aqu i.e. its own house in Rasi. Now, navamsa

depositor is also considered here as you are considering as per parasara.

 

Lagna, and Mars have become very powerful in this chart and that is

required for becoming a Strong Prime Minister who is capable of taking

and

implementing difficult decisions. Sun is also in the sign of Scorpio and

it's a fixed sign as well and in navamsa also its in Leo which is again

its

own sign and fixed sign and the Karakansha is again in 5th house in Rasi

which is the karak of authority and the mool karak for parakram or 3rd

house. This powerful sun is giving power to Mars .

 

Coming to Jupiter, Jupiter is in 6th house from 6th house of the chart

i.e

in Taurus. This will make Guru very powerful as the Karak for 11th house

i.e. 6th lord is in 6th house or Upchay sthan and in other words, Karak

has

come to Phal sthan. This makes Guru very powerful and its in Retro.

Upto

here also all this is given by Parasara about Upchay sthan i.e. the house

of

growth, heap and prosperity. In addition, Guru as 9th lord is in 3rd

house

from 9th but at the same time its in 8th house from Libra. Therefore the

status of Guru has become very powerful. Now Guru is again in navamsa of

Taurus i.e. vargottam. Venus is placed in 6th house in Rasi so it will

give

conflicts and enemies. Venus is also in Karak sthan from Guru.

 

Coming to Shani. Shani too is in 6th house form 8th house. This will

give

the Prime Minister very powerful personality. I believe Sa in Cancer in

lagna is referred to as a Raj yog or Maharaj yog. Again the same

principle

of upchaya i.e the karak i.e. functional karak for lagna is 8th and its

lord

is in Lagna the same way, Ju is in 6th from Sag in Tau.

 

Now here, in this case to elucidate the point of MT taking precedence,

here

Sa rules 7th and 8th house and if you check the SAV, you will see that

both

7th and 8th house have 1 bindu each. So in this case, MT will take

precedence of the 2 i.e. Sa is with equal power representing 7th house

and

8th house lord but here MT will take precedence.

 

Saturn as 7th lord is eager to give 10th house result and so is Mercury

as

they are upchaya from both karak and phal sthan i.e here I am focused on

10th house. Same way, for success and income, 11th house , Sa is 8th

house

lord i.e .10th from 11th and a powerful upchay. So Sa is a powerful

antra

to give income and authority for the prime minister.

 

Saturn is again in navamsa of Capricorn in navamsa which is the 7th house

of

Rasi. The karak for Authority is Mangal and that has become very

powerful

as I have talked above.

 

Next we will talk of Mool Karak, and that is mercury and again that is in

6th house from 12th house its own sign. So here again, the results of

12th

house are enhanced. So mool karak has come into the karak sthan for

Authority.

 

Regarding marriage, 6th lord is not conducive to the result of marriage

and

status of Venus and Guru are to be noted. Here Guru is the 6th lord (as

it

has more power as compared to 9th house) so it will have proportionally

more

power to do damage to 7th house matters. Guru is also natural mool karak

i.e. karak of Venus or natural 9th lord.

 

Here Guru is powerful in SAV as it has 6 bindus. Therefore it will

aspect

7th house and 2nd lord i.e. phal sthan and Karak with malefic dristi and

it

will destroy or depart her husband from her. This ju will become very

malefic. Venus is also spoilt i.e. the natural karak as it is 47 deg

away

from Sun and its aspected by Saturn and it is in 6th house and conjoined

by

Ra. Here Sa is aspecting Ve in navamsa. This also spoils marital life

and

happiness.

 

12th lord is in 5th house and results of 12th house and karak for 5th

house

are enhanced. She also has blessings as lagna and 9th lord from lagna

and

moon are in nav pancham 5:9. Here child also became the prime minister

i.e

Rajiv Gandhi. The blessing from her father helped her become the prime

minister as well.

 

Guru and Mars are powerful to give Indira Gandhi good power to 1st house

of

SELF. Ju is 6th lord and Mars is 10th lord both are powerful upchaya.

Both

these lords have become powerful.

 

I will refer to what you wrote in a point by point manner

 

You wrote

 

" For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly.

 

Ash : I have given the calculation of that, as we use it in KAS. i.e a

layer of AV is used to judge the bindus to see in which sign does Jupiter

getting more bindus or in other words, in which sign does Jupiter making

good relation with 7th planets and lagna. So that becomes the basis of

comparison. Next if there is a tie breaker i.e. if both are equal then

MT

will take precedence. This is as per VA only and as you say as per

Parasara.

 

Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-) "

 

Ash : Yes, Ju is 6th and 9th lord, so to ascertain Ju is more powerful as

which sign lord we judge the SAV power i.e. bindu. So in the chart of

Indira Gandhi, Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 in 9th house therefore

it

will act more like 6th lord in the proportion of 5:4. Now here 6th house

is

also MT. What you are doing is for each and every chart you will

consider

MT to be more powerful irrespective of AV bindus obtained i.e you are

ignoring the yog power that Ju gets support in each house and are using

the

Sign to determine. But at the same time you are saying that it will act

like both but more like MT. So in KAS, we ALSO check the yogs power of

the

planet in the dual house it owns and then are able to determine the

proportion who it will be more like and then if in case of tie breaker

then

we go for MT. So by adding a layer of SAV, you can get more precise

value.

So here in Indira Gandhi's chart and also in your chart, what you have

observed is also in line with KAS i.e. by adding another layer of SAV.

So

for Indira Gandhi its 5:4 with 6th house having 5 bindus which is also MT

and in your chart as well Ju as 3rd and 12th lord Ju has 2 and 3 bindus

respectively with 12th house getting 3 therefore the ratio will be 3:2 in

favor of MT.

 

Ju is also 6th lord and its aspect on 7th house and 2nd lord Sun has also

not given her marital happiness. Venus is also spoilt as its distance to

Sun is 47 deg and aspected by Saturn and Saturn aspects a luminary.

Venus

is also in 6th house. Venus also conjoins Rahu in 6th house. Jupiter is

retro as well and as per KAS it enhances the result of the house it is

placed in and the house its karak for. I do not know if Parasara has

said

this, so you can please clarify. Now Ju is natural karak for children

and

its children and karak for family has enhanced the status of her family

and

children as well. Venus is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and

Ju

is in the navamsa of Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord

is

Venus. Her daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today.

So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.

 

In order to overcome rivals, her Mars and individuality must also be

strong

which it is as I have explained in this mail. She also must be

intelligent

so if you check her navamsa, Dreshkon and Trishansa she has 3 sectors

falling in the sign of Saturn and 2 in Mercury i.e. lagna sun and moon

(parasara has told to check all laws from lagna sun and moon so that is

being followed here as well). She has 1 sector in Sun and 2 of mars

showing

daring and leadership qualities as well. This is her inner nature and

intelligence.

 

Ju is 6th lord and its 10th lord or upchay for 9th house and therefore it

will also be eager to bestow luck to her or help grow her 9th house. So

I

agree with you regarding luck and 6th house relation.

 

Phew, it's a long email.

 

I would like to thank you for citing Indira Gandhi's chart which I had

not

studied in this much detail till now. All the laws I have used are all

given by parasara and other seers. In all of this I have not discussed

timing of event but general VA. There is so much more depth to which one

can go to, but its not possible to on email.

 

The essence of the mail is that when planets are in upchay or the lords

of

the upchay they help grow the signification of the house. In Indira

Gandhi's chart, Ju, Sa, Me are in 6th from own house and Ma is in 10th

from

own house.

 

In Navamsa, Sa is in own house, Ju is in 6th from own house, Ma is in 6th

from own house, Ve is in 6th from own house and in MT,

 

Wendy, just see your chart as well. Saturn is in 6th from 1st house.

Making your 1st house very powerful along with 30 bindus. Your Mars is

in

10th from Sun and Venus and your Mars has 3 bindus and Ve and Sun have 4

each. Similar in many ways like Indira Gandhi. This makes Mars very

powerful and your individuality. You too have 4 sectors of Mercury i.e

lagna sun and moon falling in sectors of Mercury making your very

brilliant

and clever. Your Jupiter is in 7th house with 3 bindus and its in 10th

place from Moon with 7 bindus. This is a very powerful Gaj Kesari Yog

where

your Guru will become very powerful. You cannot tolerate injustice or

persons who cheat. So a person with strong Guru and Mars become more

spiritual as its natural 1st and 9th lord and 12th and 8th lord of

Kalpurush

chart. Gives good name and fame and powerful individuality (mars) and

powerful 9th and 12th house results so luck and the path to moksh

(enjoyment

and happiness and bliss).

 

I hope I have not caused any confusion.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

I also wanted to write a bit on MoolTrikon and how upchay house play a

significant role.

 

For Ju the 2 signs it rules are in 4:10 i.e. Sag and pisces. So even if the

power of Guru is less in pisces, Guru being the 10th lord from Pisces will

help grow the significance of Pisces for all charts as it is house of

powerful upchay. Sag will become 3rd from Libra which is Karak for Pisces

and its also 10th from Pisces so its upchay from both Karak and Plan sthan.

 

 

Similarly for Mercury, Gemini and Virgo are in 4:10 as well. Here Gemini

will be in 10th from Virgo and Gemini will become 3rd from Aries and 10th

from Virgo, so in Mercury will help grow the significance of Virgo. So in

both cases there is 4:10 relationship and 10th is upchaya from 4th.

 

For Mars, Aries and Sco are in 1:8. Means for Aries, Sco is karak. Mars in

6th from Sco will be in upchay as well. So Mars in Aries will become

powerful and it will enhance the results of Sco. So again here upchay

theory is there.

 

Similarly for Venus, the MT of Ve is libra which is 6th from Taurus. So

again its in upchaya house. Similar concept to what I wrote about in Indira

Gandhis chart where so many planets are in 6th from own sign.

 

For Saturn MT is in 2nd from Cap i.e. dhan stan. For Moon the MT is Tau and

that is 11th from Cancer. For Sun its Leo and it's the own sign so that is

again its upchay.

 

So upchay theory is very important.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya [jyotish-vidya ]

On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Tuesday March 3, 2009 1:37 AM

jyotish-vidya

Re: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Ash,

 

Many thanks for your mail :-)

 

///I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as

well, Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio

3:2.///

 

It's quite possible that my understanding is wrong here, but, looking at

the Samudaya Ashtakavarga chart (my horoscope) Jupiter has 4 points in

12th and 4 in 6th...?

Also if, as you say, the dominant bhava is the one with more SAV points,

then Parasara's dictum that moolatrikona is dominant loses credibility,

surely?

 

///I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.///

 

I do appreciate the effort you've put into delineating this chart and I'm

keen to go through it leisurely so as to not miss any of your points.

Unfortunately time is against me at the moment...hopefully this evening

sometime I will be able to spend some time on this (absorbing what you

say).

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Ash's Corner <Corner%40ashtro.ca> " <kas

<kas%40ashtro.ca> >

<jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>

>

Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:34 AM

RE: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding your chart, which you had made reference of it. In your chart

you

wrote " My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships

manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence. "

 

I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as well,

Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio 3:2.

 

So your experiences are all in line with Ashtakavarga as well.

 

I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.

 

I will write all my findings in the terms of Parasara (which are all used

in

KAS to get the power in numerical format)

 

Mars is in 4:10 with Sun and Mercury. Mars is yogakarak for the chart.

(upto here this is given in Parasara about yogakarak that for cancer

lagna,

Ma is yogakarak). Now here Ma is in 4:10 with sun, this is given as

parasparakaraka or mutual cosignificators I believe. Ma has 2 bindus and

Sun has 4 bindus. Ma is natural 1st lord and 8th lord and Sun is natural

5th lord therefore Karak for 6th and 1st has got control and power from

the

natural karak for authority, making this chart very powerful. Mars then

is

in karak sthan from Moon as well which is lagnesh and Mo which is lagna

lord

is in the navamsa of Aqu therefore its samdharmi to Shani who is placed

in

lagna and is in 6th from Aqu i.e. its own house in Rasi. Now, navamsa

depositor is also considered here as you are considering as per parasara.

 

Lagna, and Mars have become very powerful in this chart and that is

required for becoming a Strong Prime Minister who is capable of taking

and

implementing difficult decisions. Sun is also in the sign of Scorpio and

it's a fixed sign as well and in navamsa also its in Leo which is again

its

own sign and fixed sign and the Karakansha is again in 5th house in Rasi

which is the karak of authority and the mool karak for parakram or 3rd

house. This powerful sun is giving power to Mars .

 

Coming to Jupiter, Jupiter is in 6th house from 6th house of the chart

i.e

in Taurus. This will make Guru very powerful as the Karak for 11th house

i.e. 6th lord is in 6th house or Upchay sthan and in other words, Karak

has

come to Phal sthan. This makes Guru very powerful and its in Retro.

Upto

here also all this is given by Parasara about Upchay sthan i.e. the house

of

growth, heap and prosperity. In addition, Guru as 9th lord is in 3rd

house

from 9th but at the same time its in 8th house from Libra. Therefore the

status of Guru has become very powerful. Now Guru is again in navamsa of

Taurus i.e. vargottam. Venus is placed in 6th house in Rasi so it will

give

conflicts and enemies. Venus is also in Karak sthan from Guru.

 

Coming to Shani. Shani too is in 6th house form 8th house. This will

give

the Prime Minister very powerful personality. I believe Sa in Cancer in

lagna is referred to as a Raj yog or Maharaj yog. Again the same

principle

of upchaya i.e the karak i.e. functional karak for lagna is 8th and its

lord

is in Lagna the same way, Ju is in 6th from Sag in Tau.

 

Now here, in this case to elucidate the point of MT taking precedence,

here

Sa rules 7th and 8th house and if you check the SAV, you will see that

both

7th and 8th house have 1 bindu each. So in this case, MT will take

precedence of the 2 i.e. Sa is with equal power representing 7th house

and

8th house lord but here MT will take precedence.

 

Saturn as 7th lord is eager to give 10th house result and so is Mercury

as

they are upchaya from both karak and phal sthan i.e here I am focused on

10th house. Same way, for success and income, 11th house , Sa is 8th

house

lord i.e .10th from 11th and a powerful upchay. So Sa is a powerful

antra

to give income and authority for the prime minister.

 

Saturn is again in navamsa of Capricorn in navamsa which is the 7th house

of

Rasi. The karak for Authority is Mangal and that has become very

powerful

as I have talked above.

 

Next we will talk of Mool Karak, and that is mercury and again that is in

6th house from 12th house its own sign. So here again, the results of

12th

house are enhanced. So mool karak has come into the karak sthan for

Authority.

 

Regarding marriage, 6th lord is not conducive to the result of marriage

and

status of Venus and Guru are to be noted. Here Guru is the 6th lord (as

it

has more power as compared to 9th house) so it will have proportionally

more

power to do damage to 7th house matters. Guru is also natural mool karak

i.e. karak of Venus or natural 9th lord.

 

Here Guru is powerful in SAV as it has 6 bindus. Therefore it will

aspect

7th house and 2nd lord i.e. phal sthan and Karak with malefic dristi and

it

will destroy or depart her husband from her. This ju will become very

malefic. Venus is also spoilt i.e. the natural karak as it is 47 deg

away

from Sun and its aspected by Saturn and it is in 6th house and conjoined

by

Ra. Here Sa is aspecting Ve in navamsa. This also spoils marital life

and

happiness.

 

12th lord is in 5th house and results of 12th house and karak for 5th

house

are enhanced. She also has blessings as lagna and 9th lord from lagna

and

moon are in nav pancham 5:9. Here child also became the prime minister

i.e

Rajiv Gandhi. The blessing from her father helped her become the prime

minister as well.

 

Guru and Mars are powerful to give Indira Gandhi good power to 1st house

of

SELF. Ju is 6th lord and Mars is 10th lord both are powerful upchaya.

Both

these lords have become powerful.

 

I will refer to what you wrote in a point by point manner

 

You wrote

 

" For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly.

 

Ash : I have given the calculation of that, as we use it in KAS. i.e a

layer of AV is used to judge the bindus to see in which sign does Jupiter

getting more bindus or in other words, in which sign does Jupiter making

good relation with 7th planets and lagna. So that becomes the basis of

comparison. Next if there is a tie breaker i.e. if both are equal then

MT

will take precedence. This is as per VA only and as you say as per

Parasara.

 

Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-) "

 

Ash : Yes, Ju is 6th and 9th lord, so to ascertain Ju is more powerful as

which sign lord we judge the SAV power i.e. bindu. So in the chart of

Indira Gandhi, Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 in 9th house therefore

it

will act more like 6th lord in the proportion of 5:4. Now here 6th house

is

also MT. What you are doing is for each and every chart you will

consider

MT to be more powerful irrespective of AV bindus obtained i.e you are

ignoring the yog power that Ju gets support in each house and are using

the

Sign to determine. But at the same time you are saying that it will act

like both but more like MT. So in KAS, we ALSO check the yogs power of

the

planet in the dual house it owns and then are able to determine the

proportion who it will be more like and then if in case of tie breaker

then

we go for MT. So by adding a layer of SAV, you can get more precise

value.

So here in Indira Gandhi's chart and also in your chart, what you have

observed is also in line with KAS i.e. by adding another layer of SAV.

So

for Indira Gandhi its 5:4 with 6th house having 5 bindus which is also MT

and in your chart as well Ju as 3rd and 12th lord Ju has 2 and 3 bindus

respectively with 12th house getting 3 therefore the ratio will be 3:2 in

favor of MT.

 

Ju is also 6th lord and its aspect on 7th house and 2nd lord Sun has also

not given her marital happiness. Venus is also spoilt as its distance to

Sun is 47 deg and aspected by Saturn and Saturn aspects a luminary.

Venus

is also in 6th house. Venus also conjoins Rahu in 6th house. Jupiter is

retro as well and as per KAS it enhances the result of the house it is

placed in and the house its karak for. I do not know if Parasara has

said

this, so you can please clarify. Now Ju is natural karak for children

and

its children and karak for family has enhanced the status of her family

and

children as well. Venus is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and

Ju

is in the navamsa of Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord

is

Venus. Her daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today.

So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.

 

In order to overcome rivals, her Mars and individuality must also be

strong

which it is as I have explained in this mail. She also must be

intelligent

so if you check her navamsa, Dreshkon and Trishansa she has 3 sectors

falling in the sign of Saturn and 2 in Mercury i.e. lagna sun and moon

(parasara has told to check all laws from lagna sun and moon so that is

being followed here as well). She has 1 sector in Sun and 2 of mars

showing

daring and leadership qualities as well. This is her inner nature and

intelligence.

 

Ju is 6th lord and its 10th lord or upchay for 9th house and therefore it

will also be eager to bestow luck to her or help grow her 9th house. So

I

agree with you regarding luck and 6th house relation.

 

Phew, it's a long email.

 

I would like to thank you for citing Indira Gandhi's chart which I had

not

studied in this much detail till now. All the laws I have used are all

given by parasara and other seers. In all of this I have not discussed

timing of event but general VA. There is so much more depth to which one

can go to, but its not possible to on email.

 

The essence of the mail is that when planets are in upchay or the lords

of

the upchay they help grow the signification of the house. In Indira

Gandhi's chart, Ju, Sa, Me are in 6th from own house and Ma is in 10th

from

own house.

 

In Navamsa, Sa is in own house, Ju is in 6th from own house, Ma is in 6th

from own house, Ve is in 6th from own house and in MT,

 

Wendy, just see your chart as well. Saturn is in 6th from 1st house.

Making your 1st house very powerful along with 30 bindus. Your Mars is

in

10th from Sun and Venus and your Mars has 3 bindus and Ve and Sun have 4

each. Similar in many ways like Indira Gandhi. This makes Mars very

powerful and your individuality. You too have 4 sectors of Mercury i.e

lagna sun and moon falling in sectors of Mercury making your very

brilliant

and clever. Your Jupiter is in 7th house with 3 bindus and its in 10th

place from Moon with 7 bindus. This is a very powerful Gaj Kesari Yog

where

your Guru will become very powerful. You cannot tolerate injustice or

persons who cheat. So a person with strong Guru and Mars become more

spiritual as its natural 1st and 9th lord and 12th and 8th lord of

Kalpurush

chart. Gives good name and fame and powerful individuality (mars) and

powerful 9th and 12th house results so luck and the path to moksh

(enjoyment

and happiness and bliss).

 

I hope I have not caused any confusion.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash,

 

///Wendy, if possible, can you or Uttra make the setting of the list into

HTML

that way, the colours and fonts will show up making it easy to read. Its

just a suggestion.///

 

I think I've managed to make the necessary change...not sure though?

Please advise if there's something else I should do.

 

Again, and this I hope is not sounding like an excuse, but I'm still

struggling to find enough time to respond to your mails as I'd hoped.

With this in mind, let me just comment quickly on the following...

 

///In Summary :-

Now that does not mean we are saying that MT is not taking precedence

over

the 2nd house the planet rules, but this law remains constant and it is

used

as the deciding factor if the bindus in each house is equal. So as per

what

you are saying that in ALL charts MT will take precedence over the 2nd

house

irrespective of where other planets are or where the planet or the lord

of

the house is placed, in each and every case MT will ALWAYS be more

powerful

and the 2nd house will be less powerful and there is no other way to find

out the quantum of how much it will be in favour of MT as compared to the

other house it rules.///

 

With all due respect Ash, there are many things that need to be

considered. As we all know, experiences are constantly changing and the

balance constantly shifting i.e., sub-dasas, transits etc all have an

influence. It's also a matter of course to consider the vital role of

karakas i.e., Saturn, karaka for 12th and Mars, karaka for 3rd. We also

need to consider the compound relationship that exists between the

individual grahas i.e. permanent/temporary friendship or enmity.

Notwithstanding the role of dispositor, nakshatra lord, aspects and so

forth.

 

Even before moving to foreign land (GU/RA) the dominance of 12th was

clear...or to put it more clearly the tone was set in accordance with the

significations of 12th. This is not meant to imply that 3rd lordship was

weaker in any way to 12th. Both bhavas are ruled by exalted Jupiter...how

can we say Jupiter is less powerful for 3rd than he is for 12th...No! not

at all. However the tone of Jupiter dasa is set by his moolatrikona sign.

This is my opinion based on many charts as well, of course, on my own

experience.

 

The sages have given us many techniques and, with diligent study, I'm

sure each will produce the desired results. For my part, and I can only

speak for myself, after many years of delineating a chart according to

certain principles/techniques, I'm too set in my ways to change course

now. I'm reminded of something Maharishi once said;

 

" It can be perilous to change boats in the middle of the ocean "

 

Ashtakavarga, like many things, is steeped in controversy. North and

South India apply it differently, KAS applies it differently again. It's

something, I believe, that an astrologer must apply himself to in order

to rely on it completely. I'm too set in my ways now and it's far too

late for me to change course, I'm afraid.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Ash's Corner " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:56 AM

RE: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Thanks for your mail. I would like to discuss this point with you.

 

I am my reply below yours.

 

Wendy, if possible, can you or Uttra make the setting of the list into

HTML

that way, the colours and fonts will show up making it easy to read. Its

just a suggestion.

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya

[jyotish-vidya ]

On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Tuesday March 3, 2009 1:37 AM

jyotish-vidya

Re: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Ash,

 

Many thanks for your mail :-)

 

///I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as

well, Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio

3:2.///

 

It's quite possible that my understanding is wrong here, but, looking at

the Samudaya Ashtakavarga chart (my horoscope) Jupiter has 4 points in

12th and 4 in 6th...?

Also if, as you say, the dominant bhava is the one with more SAV points,

then Parasara's dictum that moolatrikona is dominant loses credibility,

surely?

 

Ash : No, its not exactly that way. These are two different things.

Parasara has talked of Yogas and he has also talked about sign placement

and

described the unccha, neecha, mool trikon, friends enemy etc etc.

Now, just because we talk of sign placements that does not mean we can

ignore the yogas for based on relative positioning of the planets, isn't

that so? So lets take an example where your Ju rules 12th and 3rd house

and

it has power of 3 in 12th house compared to 2 in 3rd house. So here we

are

checking the support that Guru is getting in these house as the basis of

strength i.e. yogas. So here, if we check the next level i.e. in your

chart

Ju gets 3 bindus in 12th house and that is due to the support of Ve, Ma

and

Mercury making the bindus 3 and if you check your 3rd house, there Guru

has

power of 2 and the 2 planets making a favourable yog with Guru are Ma and

Sun.

So here we are using bindus as the base and bindus would mean a positive

yog. Now here again, this will change from chart to chart or based on

the

relative positioning of planets. So here by considering the Ashtakavarga

power (bindu) we have judged the power that Guru will have in 12th house

and

3rd house. This is based on relative positioning of Guru with 7 other

planets and lagna making it 8 or ashtakavarga. (I am sure you know this,

however I am just writing it for the benefit of those readers who might

not

be aware of this).

So if you say that MT (oranges) vs Ashtakavarga (apples) then its not

proper

to compare the two. Both of them serve a different angle. With

Ashtakavarga we can get the power of yogas in each house that is under

comparision and get the ratio so in your case its 3:2 for the comparision

of

Guru for the 2 house it owns viz-a-viz 12th vs 3rd. So from this we can

gauge that the Guru has more votes in the constituency of 12th house as

compared to his constituency of 3rd house. I am just trying to give an

analogy to explain my point. Now, the 12th house ALSO happens to be the

Mool Trikon sign of Guru and 3rd house is the house it owns i.e Pisces.

So here in case in both the constituencies that Guru has i.e. Sag and

pisces

and in Cap lagna for 12th and 3rd we can gauge the power Guru gets due to

the vote of all planets 7 of them and Guru's own position w.r.t lagna as

well to study from all 8 angles that way we consider each and every

angle.

In case in both the places if Guru, got the same votes, then Guru would

act

more like MT.

Yes, in the case if say Guru were to get say 5 bindus in Pisces and 3 in

Sag

then Guru would act more as the lord of Pisces as compared to Sag in the

ration 5:3. So this will change from chart to chart and it will depend

on

the planets and their placement and also the placement of Guru w.r.t

lagna

as well so from all 8 angles the weightage and ratio of each planet will

vary in each house, so by applying Ashtakavarga we can get a proper

judgement.

In Summary :-

Now that does not mean we are saying that MT is not taking precedence

over

the 2nd house the planet rules, but this law remains constant and it is

used

as the deciding factor if the bindus in each house is equal. So as per

what

you are saying that in ALL charts MT will take precedence over the 2nd

house

irrespective of where other planets are or where the planet or the lord

of

the house is placed, in each and every case MT will ALWAYS be more

powerful

and the 2nd house will be less powerful and there is no other way to find

out the quantum of how much it will be in favour of MT as compared to the

other house it rules.

What I am saying is that with Ashtakavarga, or by considering

Ashtakavarga

power of the planet in the 2 houses it rules and in our example Guru and

since it rules 12th and 3rd then by checking Guru's power i.e. we are

considering the yogas from 8 angles to find out in detail who is

supporting

guru. That will become the basis of comparision of power and in case if

both have same yogs or getting equal power then MT will take precedence.

So

here I am utilizing both things that Parasara has said i.e. Yog support

of

SAV and then the MT theory as well. This will change in each chart based

on

the planets are placed and the lord of the sign in our case Guru is

placed

as well so we cover all 8 angles. We can then also get the ratio in

mathematical terms like 3:2 in favour of which house.

Say, in case of Saturn which is the only planet that can give 0 in the

place it is in, so in some case if Sa is placed in Aqu with 0 bindus and

Capricorn has 4 bindus then Saturn will be more towards Capricorn as in

the

sign of Aqu no planet are supporting Saturn despite it being its MT and

it

being placed in it. If we go by MT theory only and not consider the SAV

or

the Yogas then you will take Sa to be strong in MT in Aqu but in Aqu

itself

has no power or no planets are in favour of Sa or lending their support

or

casting their vote. So with Astakavarga it can give more clarity.

I hope you have understood what I have tried to explain.

 

 

///I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.///

 

I do appreciate the effort you've put into delineating this chart and I'm

keen to go through it leisurely so as to not miss any of your points.

Unfortunately time is against me at the moment...hopefully this evening

sometime I will be able to spend some time on this (absorbing what you

say).

 

Ash : Thanks Wendy for taking time to understand what I have tried to

explain. It is very difficult to explain something on email though I do

find that. Yes, also please go though my mail and point out the points

that

you feel are not in line so either I can try to clarify what I was

meaning

to say or I can correct myself and it will be good learning for me.

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Ash's Corner <Corner%40ashtro.ca> "

<kas

<kas%40ashtro.ca> >

<jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40>

>

Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:34 AM

RE: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding your chart, which you had made reference of it. In your chart

you

wrote " My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships

manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence. "

 

I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as well,

Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio 3:2.

 

So your experiences are all in line with Ashtakavarga as well.

 

I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.

 

I will write all my findings in the terms of Parasara (which are all used

in

KAS to get the power in numerical format)

 

Mars is in 4:10 with Sun and Mercury. Mars is yogakarak for the chart.

(upto here this is given in Parasara about yogakarak that for cancer

lagna,

Ma is yogakarak). Now here Ma is in 4:10 with sun, this is given as

parasparakaraka or mutual cosignificators I believe. Ma has 2 bindus and

Sun has 4 bindus. Ma is natural 1st lord and 8th lord and Sun is natural

5th lord therefore Karak for 6th and 1st has got control and power from

the

natural karak for authority, making this chart very powerful. Mars then

is

in karak sthan from Moon as well which is lagnesh and Mo which is lagna

lord

is in the navamsa of Aqu therefore its samdharmi to Shani who is placed

in

lagna and is in 6th from Aqu i.e. its own house in Rasi. Now, navamsa

depositor is also considered here as you are considering as per parasara.

 

Lagna, and Mars have become very powerful in this chart and that is

required for becoming a Strong Prime Minister who is capable of taking

and

implementing difficult decisions. Sun is also in the sign of Scorpio and

it's a fixed sign as well and in navamsa also its in Leo which is again

its

own sign and fixed sign and the Karakansha is again in 5th house in Rasi

which is the karak of authority and the mool karak for parakram or 3rd

house. This powerful sun is giving power to Mars .

 

Coming to Jupiter, Jupiter is in 6th house from 6th house of the chart

i.e

in Taurus. This will make Guru very powerful as the Karak for 11th house

i.e. 6th lord is in 6th house or Upchay sthan and in other words, Karak

has

come to Phal sthan. This makes Guru very powerful and its in Retro.

Upto

here also all this is given by Parasara about Upchay sthan i.e. the house

of

growth, heap and prosperity. In addition, Guru as 9th lord is in 3rd

house

from 9th but at the same time its in 8th house from Libra. Therefore the

status of Guru has become very powerful. Now Guru is again in navamsa of

Taurus i.e. vargottam. Venus is placed in 6th house in Rasi so it will

give

conflicts and enemies. Venus is also in Karak sthan from Guru.

 

Coming to Shani. Shani too is in 6th house form 8th house. This will

give

the Prime Minister very powerful personality. I believe Sa in Cancer in

lagna is referred to as a Raj yog or Maharaj yog. Again the same

principle

of upchaya i.e the karak i.e. functional karak for lagna is 8th and its

lord

is in Lagna the same way, Ju is in 6th from Sag in Tau.

 

Now here, in this case to elucidate the point of MT taking precedence,

here

Sa rules 7th and 8th house and if you check the SAV, you will see that

both

7th and 8th house have 1 bindu each. So in this case, MT will take

precedence of the 2 i.e. Sa is with equal power representing 7th house

and

8th house lord but here MT will take precedence.

 

Saturn as 7th lord is eager to give 10th house result and so is Mercury

as

they are upchaya from both karak and phal sthan i.e here I am focused on

10th house. Same way, for success and income, 11th house , Sa is 8th

house

lord i.e .10th from 11th and a powerful upchay. So Sa is a powerful

antra

to give income and authority for the prime minister.

 

Saturn is again in navamsa of Capricorn in navamsa which is the 7th house

of

Rasi. The karak for Authority is Mangal and that has become very

powerful

as I have talked above.

 

Next we will talk of Mool Karak, and that is mercury and again that is in

6th house from 12th house its own sign. So here again, the results of

12th

house are enhanced. So mool karak has come into the karak sthan for

Authority.

 

Regarding marriage, 6th lord is not conducive to the result of marriage

and

status of Venus and Guru are to be noted. Here Guru is the 6th lord (as

it

has more power as compared to 9th house) so it will have proportionally

more

power to do damage to 7th house matters. Guru is also natural mool karak

i.e. karak of Venus or natural 9th lord.

 

Here Guru is powerful in SAV as it has 6 bindus. Therefore it will

aspect

7th house and 2nd lord i.e. phal sthan and Karak with malefic dristi and

it

will destroy or depart her husband from her. This ju will become very

malefic. Venus is also spoilt i.e. the natural karak as it is 47 deg

away

from Sun and its aspected by Saturn and it is in 6th house and conjoined

by

Ra. Here Sa is aspecting Ve in navamsa. This also spoils marital life

and

happiness.

 

12th lord is in 5th house and results of 12th house and karak for 5th

house

are enhanced. She also has blessings as lagna and 9th lord from lagna

and

moon are in nav pancham 5:9. Here child also became the prime minister

i.e

Rajiv Gandhi. The blessing from her father helped her become the prime

minister as well.

 

Guru and Mars are powerful to give Indira Gandhi good power to 1st house

of

SELF. Ju is 6th lord and Mars is 10th lord both are powerful upchaya.

Both

these lords have become powerful.

 

I will refer to what you wrote in a point by point manner

 

You wrote

 

" For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly.

 

Ash : I have given the calculation of that, as we use it in KAS. i.e a

layer of AV is used to judge the bindus to see in which sign does Jupiter

getting more bindus or in other words, in which sign does Jupiter making

good relation with 7th planets and lagna. So that becomes the basis of

comparison. Next if there is a tie breaker i.e. if both are equal then

MT

will take precedence. This is as per VA only and as you say as per

Parasara.

 

Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-) "

 

Ash : Yes, Ju is 6th and 9th lord, so to ascertain Ju is more powerful as

which sign lord we judge the SAV power i.e. bindu. So in the chart of

Indira Gandhi, Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 in 9th house therefore

it

will act more like 6th lord in the proportion of 5:4. Now here 6th house

is

also MT. What you are doing is for each and every chart you will

consider

MT to be more powerful irrespective of AV bindus obtained i.e you are

ignoring the yog power that Ju gets support in each house and are using

the

Sign to determine. But at the same time you are saying that it will act

like both but more like MT. So in KAS, we ALSO check the yogs power of

the

planet in the dual house it owns and then are able to determine the

proportion who it will be more like and then if in case of tie breaker

then

we go for MT. So by adding a layer of SAV, you can get more precise

value.

So here in Indira Gandhi's chart and also in your chart, what you have

observed is also in line with KAS i.e. by adding another layer of SAV.

So

for Indira Gandhi its 5:4 with 6th house having 5 bindus which is also MT

and in your chart as well Ju as 3rd and 12th lord Ju has 2 and 3 bindus

respectively with 12th house getting 3 therefore the ratio will be 3:2 in

favor of MT.

 

Ju is also 6th lord and its aspect on 7th house and 2nd lord Sun has also

not given her marital happiness. Venus is also spoilt as its distance to

Sun is 47 deg and aspected by Saturn and Saturn aspects a luminary.

Venus

is also in 6th house. Venus also conjoins Rahu in 6th house. Jupiter is

retro as well and as per KAS it enhances the result of the house it is

placed in and the house its karak for. I do not know if Parasara has

said

this, so you can please clarify. Now Ju is natural karak for children

and

its children and karak for family has enhanced the status of her family

and

children as well. Venus is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and

Ju

is in the navamsa of Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord

is

Venus. Her daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today.

So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.

 

In order to overcome rivals, her Mars and individuality must also be

strong

which it is as I have explained in this mail. She also must be

intelligent

so if you check her navamsa, Dreshkon and Trishansa she has 3 sectors

falling in the sign of Saturn and 2 in Mercury i.e. lagna sun and moon

(parasara has told to check all laws from lagna sun and moon so that is

being followed here as well). She has 1 sector in Sun and 2 of mars

showing

daring and leadership qualities as well. This is her inner nature and

intelligence.

 

Ju is 6th lord and its 10th lord or upchay for 9th house and therefore it

will also be eager to bestow luck to her or help grow her 9th house. So

I

agree with you regarding luck and 6th house relation.

 

Phew, it's a long email.

 

I would like to thank you for citing Indira Gandhi's chart which I had

not

studied in this much detail till now. All the laws I have used are all

given by parasara and other seers. In all of this I have not discussed

timing of event but general VA. There is so much more depth to which one

can go to, but its not possible to on email.

 

The essence of the mail is that when planets are in upchay or the lords

of

the upchay they help grow the signification of the house. In Indira

Gandhi's chart, Ju, Sa, Me are in 6th from own house and Ma is in 10th

from

own house.

 

In Navamsa, Sa is in own house, Ju is in 6th from own house, Ma is in 6th

from own house, Ve is in 6th from own house and in MT,

 

Wendy, just see your chart as well. Saturn is in 6th from 1st house.

Making your 1st house very powerful along with 30 bindus. Your Mars is

in

10th from Sun and Venus and your Mars has 3 bindus and Ve and Sun have 4

each. Similar in many ways like Indira Gandhi. This makes Mars very

powerful and your individuality. You too have 4 sectors of Mercury i.e

lagna sun and moon falling in sectors of Mercury making your very

brilliant

and clever. Your Jupiter is in 7th house with 3 bindus and its in 10th

place from Moon with 7 bindus. This is a very powerful Gaj Kesari Yog

where

your Guru will become very powerful. You cannot tolerate injustice or

persons who cheat. So a person with strong Guru and Mars become more

spiritual as its natural 1st and 9th lord and 12th and 8th lord of

Kalpurush

chart. Gives good name and fame and powerful individuality (mars) and

powerful 9th and 12th house results so luck and the path to moksh

(enjoyment

and happiness and bliss).

 

I hope I have not caused any confusion.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

 

Years back on Satva - I think attachments also need to be allowed, in order for the HTML function to kick in - I will put this word (red) in RED to see if I am right.

 

 

In other words, whether or not you switch to HTML, it may not have any effect UNLESS you also allow attachments on the list too.

 

 

If however, the word RED comes up in red on my E-mail - then you do not need to allow attachments.

 

 

Sateesh.

 

========

 

 

 

- Mrs. Wendy

jyotish-vidya

Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:25 AM

Re: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

 

Dear Ash,///Wendy, if possible, can you or Uttra make the setting of the list into HTMLthat way, the colours and fonts will show up making it easy to read. Itsjust a suggestion.///I think I've managed to make the necessary change...not sure though? Please advise if there's something else I should do.

..

[Guest guest]

Dear Sateesh,

 

Many thanks for that! Actually, all I did was allow attachments because I

really didn't know what else to do...it seems to have worked :-)

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Sateesh Batas " <makara

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:44 PM

Re: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

 

 

Dear Wendy,

 

 

Years back on Satva - I think attachments also need to be allowed, in

order for the HTML function to kick in - I will put this word (red) in

RED to see if I am right.

 

 

In other words, whether or not you switch to HTML, it may not have any

effect UNLESS you also allow attachments on the list too.

 

 

If however, the word RED comes up in red on my E-mail - then you do

not need to allow attachments.

 

 

Sateesh.

 

========

 

 

 

-

Mrs. Wendy

jyotish-vidya

Wednesday, March 04, 2009 5:25 AM

Re: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

 

Dear Ash,

 

///Wendy, if possible, can you or Uttra make the setting of the list into

HTML

that way, the colours and fonts will show up making it easy to read. Its

just a suggestion.///

 

I think I've managed to make the necessary change...not sure though?

Please advise if there's something else I should do.

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash,

 

///Phew, it's a long email.///

 

You're not wrong there! You've put so much effort into this and I have to

admit that I'm feeling more than a little dim-witted as it's almost, at

times, like we're speaking two (different) languages. You've studied KAS

for a long time, Ash, and I have not studied this particular application

at all...no doubt this tired brain of mine is at a distinct disadvantage.

 

So, for now, as I tend to tire very easily these days, let me just

respond to a few points of interest in Indira Gandhi's chart.

 

/// Now Ju is natural karak for children and its children and karak for

family has enhanced the status of her family and children as well. Venus

is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and Ju is in the navamsa of

Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord is Venus. Her

daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today. So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.///

 

I would consider YogaKaraka Mars, owning 7th from Jupiter, as a

significator of her son's spouse. This Mars in 2nd house of family

denotes a powerful ambitious family, and by what little I know, Sonia

Gandhi followed the footsteps of her husband (Rajiv) when she entered

politics. We could say then that both Indira's son and daughter-in-law

followed similar paths...5th lord (children) being 7th from Jupiter

(children's spouse). The parivartana yoga (exchange of 2nd/5th lords).

This maha yoga creates great affluence, high position and so forth...

 

This would seem to be confirmed by looking at the dasa running at the

time of Rajiv's marriage (28 Feb 1968)...JU-MA-KE-MA. Note Ketu in 12th

and his dispositor (Mercury) in 5th. Sonia Gandhi, I believe, was born in

Italy.

 

Sorry to have to leave this here for now...it's extremely late and I must

get some rest. I just wanted to show (briefly) how differently we look at

a chart. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, just that this

is the way I approach it.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Ash's Corner " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:34 AM

RE: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding your chart, which you had made reference of it. In your chart

you

wrote " My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships

manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence. "

 

 

 

I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as well,

Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio 3:2.

 

So your experiences are all in line with Ashtakavarga as well.

 

I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.

 

I will write all my findings in the terms of Parasara (which are all used

in

KAS to get the power in numerical format)

 

Mars is in 4:10 with Sun and Mercury. Mars is yogakarak for the chart.

(upto here this is given in Parasara about yogakarak that for cancer

lagna,

Ma is yogakarak). Now here Ma is in 4:10 with sun, this is given as

parasparakaraka or mutual cosignificators I believe. Ma has 2 bindus and

Sun has 4 bindus. Ma is natural 1st lord and 8th lord and Sun is natural

5th lord therefore Karak for 6th and 1st has got control and power from

the

natural karak for authority, making this chart very powerful. Mars then

is

in karak sthan from Moon as well which is lagnesh and Mo which is lagna

lord

is in the navamsa of Aqu therefore its samdharmi to Shani who is placed

in

lagna and is in 6th from Aqu i.e. its own house in Rasi. Now, navamsa

depositor is also considered here as you are considering as per parasara.

 

Lagna, and Mars have become very powerful in this chart and that is

required for becoming a Strong Prime Minister who is capable of taking

and

implementing difficult decisions. Sun is also in the sign of Scorpio and

it's a fixed sign as well and in navamsa also its in Leo which is again

its

own sign and fixed sign and the Karakansha is again in 5th house in Rasi

which is the karak of authority and the mool karak for parakram or 3rd

house. This powerful sun is giving power to Mars .

 

Coming to Jupiter, Jupiter is in 6th house from 6th house of the chart

i.e

in Taurus. This will make Guru very powerful as the Karak for 11th house

i.e. 6th lord is in 6th house or Upchay sthan and in other words, Karak

has

come to Phal sthan. This makes Guru very powerful and its in Retro.

Upto

here also all this is given by Parasara about Upchay sthan i.e. the house

of

growth, heap and prosperity. In addition, Guru as 9th lord is in 3rd

house

from 9th but at the same time its in 8th house from Libra. Therefore the

status of Guru has become very powerful. Now Guru is again in navamsa of

Taurus i.e. vargottam. Venus is placed in 6th house in Rasi so it will

give

conflicts and enemies. Venus is also in Karak sthan from Guru.

 

Coming to Shani. Shani too is in 6th house form 8th house. This will

give

the Prime Minister very powerful personality. I believe Sa in Cancer in

lagna is referred to as a Raj yog or Maharaj yog. Again the same

principle

of upchaya i.e the karak i.e. functional karak for lagna is 8th and its

lord

is in Lagna the same way, Ju is in 6th from Sag in Tau.

 

Now here, in this case to elucidate the point of MT taking precedence,

here

Sa rules 7th and 8th house and if you check the SAV, you will see that

both

7th and 8th house have 1 bindu each. So in this case, MT will take

precedence of the 2 i.e. Sa is with equal power representing 7th house

and

8th house lord but here MT will take precedence.

 

Saturn as 7th lord is eager to give 10th house result and so is Mercury

as

they are upchaya from both karak and phal sthan i.e here I am focused on

10th house. Same way, for success and income, 11th house , Sa is 8th

house

lord i.e .10th from 11th and a powerful upchay. So Sa is a powerful

antra

to give income and authority for the prime minister.

 

Saturn is again in navamsa of Capricorn in navamsa which is the 7th house

of

Rasi. The karak for Authority is Mangal and that has become very

powerful

as I have talked above.

 

Next we will talk of Mool Karak, and that is mercury and again that is in

6th house from 12th house its own sign. So here again, the results of

12th

house are enhanced. So mool karak has come into the karak sthan for

Authority.

 

Regarding marriage, 6th lord is not conducive to the result of marriage

and

status of Venus and Guru are to be noted. Here Guru is the 6th lord (as

it

has more power as compared to 9th house) so it will have proportionally

more

power to do damage to 7th house matters. Guru is also natural mool karak

i.e. karak of Venus or natural 9th lord.

 

Here Guru is powerful in SAV as it has 6 bindus. Therefore it will

aspect

7th house and 2nd lord i.e. phal sthan and Karak with malefic dristi and

it

will destroy or depart her husband from her. This ju will become very

malefic. Venus is also spoilt i.e. the natural karak as it is 47 deg

away

from Sun and its aspected by Saturn and it is in 6th house and conjoined

by

Ra. Here Sa is aspecting Ve in navamsa. This also spoils marital life

and

happiness.

 

12th lord is in 5th house and results of 12th house and karak for 5th

house

are enhanced. She also has blessings as lagna and 9th lord from lagna

and

moon are in nav pancham 5:9. Here child also became the prime minister

i.e

Rajiv Gandhi. The blessing from her father helped her become the prime

minister as well.

 

Guru and Mars are powerful to give Indira Gandhi good power to 1st house

of

SELF. Ju is 6th lord and Mars is 10th lord both are powerful upchaya.

Both

these lords have become powerful.

 

 

 

I will refer to what you wrote in a point by point manner

 

You wrote

 

" For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly.

 

Ash : I have given the calculation of that, as we use it in KAS. i.e a

layer of AV is used to judge the bindus to see in which sign does Jupiter

getting more bindus or in other words, in which sign does Jupiter making

good relation with 7th planets and lagna. So that becomes the basis of

comparison. Next if there is a tie breaker i.e. if both are equal then

MT

will take precedence. This is as per VA only and as you say as per

Parasara.

 

Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-) "

 

 

 

Ash : Yes, Ju is 6th and 9th lord, so to ascertain Ju is more powerful as

which sign lord we judge the SAV power i.e. bindu. So in the chart of

Indira Gandhi, Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 in 9th house therefore

it

will act more like 6th lord in the proportion of 5:4. Now here 6th house

is

also MT. What you are doing is for each and every chart you will

consider

MT to be more powerful irrespective of AV bindus obtained i.e you are

ignoring the yog power that Ju gets support in each house and are using

the

Sign to determine. But at the same time you are saying that it will act

like both but more like MT. So in KAS, we ALSO check the yogs power of

the

planet in the dual house it owns and then are able to determine the

proportion who it will be more like and then if in case of tie breaker

then

we go for MT. So by adding a layer of SAV, you can get more precise

value.

So here in Indira Gandhi's chart and also in your chart, what you have

observed is also in line with KAS i.e. by adding another layer of SAV.

So

for Indira Gandhi its 5:4 with 6th house having 5 bindus which is also MT

and in your chart as well Ju as 3rd and 12th lord Ju has 2 and 3 bindus

respectively with 12th house getting 3 therefore the ratio will be 3:2 in

favor of MT.

 

Ju is also 6th lord and its aspect on 7th house and 2nd lord Sun has also

not given her marital happiness. Venus is also spoilt as its distance to

Sun is 47 deg and aspected by Saturn and Saturn aspects a luminary.

Venus

is also in 6th house. Venus also conjoins Rahu in 6th house. Jupiter is

retro as well and as per KAS it enhances the result of the house it is

placed in and the house its karak for. I do not know if Parasara has

said

this, so you can please clarify. Now Ju is natural karak for children

and

its children and karak for family has enhanced the status of her family

and

children as well. Venus is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and

Ju

is in the navamsa of Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord

is

Venus. Her daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today.

So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.

 

In order to overcome rivals, her Mars and individuality must also be

strong

which it is as I have explained in this mail. She also must be

intelligent

so if you check her navamsa, Dreshkon and Trishansa she has 3 sectors

falling in the sign of Saturn and 2 in Mercury i.e. lagna sun and moon

(parasara has told to check all laws from lagna sun and moon so that is

being followed here as well). She has 1 sector in Sun and 2 of mars

showing

daring and leadership qualities as well. This is her inner nature and

intelligence.

 

Ju is 6th lord and its 10th lord or upchay for 9th house and therefore it

will also be eager to bestow luck to her or help grow her 9th house. So

I

agree with you regarding luck and 6th house relation.

 

 

 

Phew, it's a long email.

 

I would like to thank you for citing Indira Gandhi's chart which I had

not

studied in this much detail till now. All the laws I have used are all

given by parasara and other seers. In all of this I have not discussed

timing of event but general VA. There is so much more depth to which one

can go to, but its not possible to on email.

 

The essence of the mail is that when planets are in upchay or the lords

of

the upchay they help grow the signification of the house. In Indira

Gandhi's chart, Ju, Sa, Me are in 6th from own house and Ma is in 10th

from

own house.

 

In Navamsa, Sa is in own house, Ju is in 6th from own house, Ma is in 6th

from own house, Ve is in 6th from own house and in MT,

 

 

Wendy, just see your chart as well. Saturn is in 6th from 1st house.

Making your 1st house very powerful along with 30 bindus. Your Mars is

in

10th from Sun and Venus and your Mars has 3 bindus and Ve and Sun have 4

each. Similar in many ways like Indira Gandhi. This makes Mars very

powerful and your individuality. You too have 4 sectors of Mercury i.e

lagna sun and moon falling in sectors of Mercury making your very

brilliant

and clever. Your Jupiter is in 7th house with 3 bindus and its in 10th

place from Moon with 7 bindus. This is a very powerful Gaj Kesari Yog

where

your Guru will become very powerful. You cannot tolerate injustice or

persons who cheat. So a person with strong Guru and Mars become more

spiritual as its natural 1st and 9th lord and 12th and 8th lord of

Kalpurush

chart. Gives good name and fame and powerful individuality (mars) and

powerful 9th and 12th house results so luck and the path to moksh

(enjoyment

and happiness and bliss).

 

 

I hope I have not caused any confusion.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya

[jyotish-vidya ]

On Behalf Of Ash's Corner

Sunday March 1, 2009 1:19 PM

jyotish-vidya

RE: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding the precedence of MT over own sign (Continuation)

 

If you check Indira Gandhi's chart, then check the SAV points of Ju in

6th

and 9th house. Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 bindus in 9th house. In

Indira Gandhi's chart MT will take precedence. Even if 9th and 6th had

equal bindus, still MT would take precedence.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

Ash's Corner <Corner%40ashtro.ca>

[kas <kas%40ashtro.ca> ]

Sunday March 1, 2009 1:11 PM

'jyotish-vidya

<%27jyotish-vidya%40> '

RE: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Wendy,

 

You had asked for opinion and I gave my opinion. No need to lecture me on

what is list policy of JV as I am aware of it and many a times I have

sent

mails first to your private email address to make sure that it would not

create any confusion.

 

I would like to comment on 2 things only to keep the record straight as

you

I believe are making statements without proper knowledge or understanding

of

KAS.

 

Regarding the precedence of MT over own sign.

 

Definitely, MT will take over precedence and that is correct, however, we

first check the bindus obtained in each house. So if Ju rules 3rd and 6th

then we check the bindus or Ju's power in each house. Say if Ju has 3

bindus in 3rd and 4 bindus in 6th house then Jupiter is more towards 6th

house lord and lesser in proportion as 3rd lord. That ratio would be 3:4.

 

Now if say 3rd is Sag and 6th is Pisces then we weigh that. Now if Ju has

more power in Pisces i.e lets say 4 bindus vs Sag has 3 then Ju will be

more

towards as lord of pisces in proportion of 4:3. If both lords have equal

power say if both had 5 bindus each then MT will be more powerful.

 

If you are using Yogas as given by Parasara then SAV gives us the

relation

and power and the bindus i.e. yogs give by Guru in say 3rd vs 6th. If

Guru

has more power i.e say 4 bindus in 6th house which is pisces means its

having more positive power i.e. yogas in 6th compared to 3rd if 3rd house

has say 3 bindus.

 

Regarding Vimshottari Dasha

 

Vimshottari dasha is used in KAS only (I think you know this, but if not,

please make a note of it).

 

KAS and unique system

 

Systems Approach is a creation by Professor VK Choudhary. KAS is a part

of

VA and has been kept in the lineage of Krushna ji's Guru ji. All the laws

of VA are followed only in the system of KAS. Please make a note of this

as

well. From what you have written, it seems that you are under the

impression that all this KAS is a new creation and that what makes it

unique.

 

Regarding discussion of Indira Gandhi's chart

 

I shall not write on that here as I don't think you or anyone else will

understand it.

 

My Opinion

 

In my opinion KAS is part and parcel of VA. All the laws of VA are

followed

as given by Parasara. Ashtakavarga is used to find the power of planet

instead of sign placement. Now Ashtakavarga is given by Parasara,

Vimshottari dasha is given, the 3 aspects of Ju, Ma and Sa are given, the

planets sign placement is same, the MT and Exaltation i.e. sign and bindu

wise are also given and same as given by parasara, aspects as per

parasara

is used which is same as given by Parasara, 4:10 principle which are

mutual

Significators are used which is given by parasara, samdharmis are given

by

parasara which are planest in same sign, same nakshatra, navamsa

depositer,

4:10) and upchay theory which is also given by Parasara. Vimshottari

dasha

is used in KAS which is given by Parasara as well. D chart are also used

which are as per parasara.

 

Let me know what is not as per Parasara so I can make a note of it.

 

 

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40>

[jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40> ]

On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Sunday March 1, 2009 10:41 AM

jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40>

Re: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Ash,

 

For the sake of clarity I'd like to respond to just one point made in the

preface " Intro to Krushna's Ashtakavarga System " .

 

Preface:

///For a Cancer ascendant, Jupiter is the lord of the sixth and the ninth

house. Confusion

arises when we have to consider which lord to take into consideration.///

 

Parasara makes it quite clear that Moolatrikona takes precedence over Own

Sign. For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly. Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-)

 

Of course Indira Gandhi did face reversals at certain times, due, I

believe, to Jupiter being in retrograde motion.

 

For my part, at least, there is no confusion as to which lordship should

be considered...both have a role to play. My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence.

 

As we both know, Ash, Krushna's Ashtakavarga System is a unique system of

prediction. In much the same way that V.K. Choudhry's " Systems Approach "

is a unique system. Here on JV we endeavour to follow Parasara's

(preferred) Vimsottari system.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Ash's Corner <Corner%40ashtro.ca>

<Corner%40ashtro.ca> " <kas <kas%40ashtro.ca>

<kas%40ashtro.ca> >

<jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40>

<jyotish-vidya%40>

>

Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:58 PM

RE: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Ashtakavarga is to gauge the power of a planet. When charting the SAV,

one

automatically covers all the yoga's which are based on the relative

position

from each other and lagna. Ashtakavarga and powers found from it can be

used to find the timing of event. One must know Vedic portion first and

then can use Ashtakavarga system to pin point the timing of events. In

KAS,

we use the upchay system along with Ashtakavarga and VA portion i.e.

consideration of upchay houses and its lords, aspects on house, planets,

consideration of 6th lord and 12th lord from any house etc etc to come to

the final power for all 7 planets for all 12 houses in a numerical format

and then calculate the powers in all 16 D charts for all 7 planets and in

all 12 houses respectively. So we can get the power of each and every

planet and in each and every house using Ashtakavarga. Yes, in D charts,

we

do not consider the powers gained due to 4:10 and aspects on house /

planets, we just add the power in the primary upchay house. This is as

per

KAS system. I do not know how others take this into consideration.

 

So, in summary, Ashtakavarga is used to find the power of planet and in

ashtakavarga, we consider the yog's and bindus so the positive yogs that

a

planet makes with respect to each other and lagna. The sign placement is

not considered for judging the power of planet. The sign placement is

used

to find the quality.

 

Let us take an example, take Jupiter is in Capricorn and say one is

studying

event of marriage for timing of it, then after delay period if antra of

Jupiter is running and Jupiter has more than 12 points i.e. cumulative

then

it will give a happy event so if the marriage is judged as happy (based

on

certain laws of VA), then for timing of event, under certain conditions

(i.e

it should not aspect 2nd, 7th or 11th with the exception if its 4th or

12th

lord) then it can give marriage. So upto here we have not factored in

the

sign placement but used Ashtakavarga to judge the power of Guru.

 

Next is to judge the quality so the first step is to consider the Sign

placement so here its in the sign of neecha so the Multiplication factor

for

Ju in Capricorn is 0.8 so u can multiply the total power obtained from

above

and multiply by 0.8 to gauge the " sign backing " .

 

Without Ashtakavarga, as per the standard texts the way one tries to

obtain

the power of a planet primarily using the sign and then navamsa position,

d

charts and yogas.

 

So if one see's sun in libra or Guru in Capricorn in Rasi then one says

its

weakened then u will study the depositor to gauge the power of Ju as

well,

then u might study the navamsa to ascertain its navamsa depositor etc

etc,

means in some way or the other, one is trying to find / gauge the power

of a

planet to deliver the result.

 

There is a misconception that Ashtakavarga is used to fine tune the

events

based on Transits. On the contrary the whole system is based on relative

positioning of planets w.r.t each other and lagna. With Ashtakavarga it

eliminates the need to remember all the yogas and their contra's as its

covered in SAV.

 

So once u cast the SAV that is just the beginning. Then to gauge the

total

power of planets, the principle of Vedic Astrology have to be applied,

i.e.

4:10 principle which is called parasparak karak I believe, next is

consideration of upchay lords i.e. secondary upchay after that we need

to

consider planets aspecting planets and the primary upchay house. So if

one

is trying to find everything from SAV then he or she might be able to use

transits only. But if one applies the full system then one can find the

timing of event.

 

So in standard texts only SAV is given and then some other portion is

given

like trikona reduction and some such method which do not work

consistently.

 

Now you can call this supplemental or portion that is missing from VA or

whatsoever, but it gives us very clear method to find the timing of

event.

 

I hope this helps,

Cheers !!!

Ash - http://www.ashtro.ca

[Guest guest]

PS: In reference to the power of this chart I should mention, if I

haven't already done so, the exchange (parivartana yoga) between

6th/11th, and 1st/7th as well as the 5th/2nd.

 

An extremely powerful chart for an extremely powerful lady (and family).

 

Worth a mention here is the death of her son (Sanjay) killed in a plane

crash 23 Jun 1980. Indira Gandhi was running dasa of SA-VE-ME-RA. Note

bhukti lord Venus (dispositor of Jupiter) in 8th from Jupiter. Venus,

significator of conveyances (planes etc), inimically placed in this house

is conjunct Rahu. I haven't yet looked at the transits for that date...

__

 

 

 

Dear Ash,

 

///Phew, it's a long email.///

 

You're not wrong there! You've put so much effort into this and I have to

admit that I'm feeling more than a little dim-witted as it's almost, at

times, like we're speaking two (different) languages. You've studied KAS

for a long time, Ash, and I have not studied this particular application

at all...no doubt this tired brain of mine is at a distinct disadvantage.

 

So, for now, as I tend to tire very easily these days, let me just

respond to a few points of interest in Indira Gandhi's chart.

 

/// Now Ju is natural karak for children and its children and karak for

family has enhanced the status of her family and children as well. Venus

is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and Ju is in the navamsa of

Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord is Venus. Her

daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today. So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.///

 

I would consider YogaKaraka Mars, owning 7th from Jupiter, as a

significator of her son's spouse. This Mars in 2nd house of family

denotes a powerful ambitious family, and by what little I know, Sonia

Gandhi followed the footsteps of her husband (Rajiv) when she entered

politics. We could say then that both Indira's son and daughter-in-law

followed similar paths...5th lord (children) being 7th from Jupiter

(children's spouse). The parivartana yoga (exchange of 2nd/5th lords).

This maha yoga creates great affluence, high position and so forth...

 

This would seem to be confirmed by looking at the dasa running at the

time of Rajiv's marriage (28 Feb 1968)...JU-MA-KE-MA. Note Ketu in 12th

and his dispositor (Mercury) in 5th. Sonia Gandhi, I believe, was born in

Italy.

 

Sorry to have to leave this here for now...it's extremely late and I must

get some rest. I just wanted to show (briefly) how differently we look at

a chart. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, just that this

is the way I approach it.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

[Guest guest]

Dear

Wendy,

 

My

reply below yours in Blue.

 

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya

[jyotish-vidya ] On

Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Wednesday March 4, 2009

12:25 AM

jyotish-vidya

Re: Re:

Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ash,

 

///Wendy, if possible, can you or Uttra make the setting of the list into

HTML

that way, the colours and fonts will show up making it easy to read. Its

just a suggestion.///

 

I think I've managed to make the necessary change...not sure though?

Please advise if there's something else I should do.

 

Again, and this I hope is not sounding like an excuse, but I'm still

struggling to find enough time to respond to your mails as I'd hoped.

With this in mind, let me just comment quickly on the following...

 

 

Ash : No worries Wendy, please take your time. There is no rush.

 

///In Summary :-

Now that does not mean we are saying that MT is not taking precedence

over

the 2nd house the planet rules, but this law remains constant and it is

used

as the deciding factor if the bindus in each house is equal. So as per

what

you are saying that in ALL charts MT will take precedence over the 2nd

house

irrespective of where other planets are or where the planet or the lord

of

the house is placed, in each and every case MT will ALWAYS be more

powerful

and the 2nd house will be less powerful and there is no other way to find

out the quantum of how much it will be in favour of MT as compared to the

other house it rules.///

 

With all due respect Ash, there are many things that need to be

considered. As we all know, experiences are constantly changing and the

balance constantly shifting i.e., sub-dasas, transits etc all have an

influence. It's also a matter of course to consider the vital role of

karakas i.e., Saturn, karaka for 12th and Mars, karaka for 3rd. We also

need to consider the compound relationship that exists between the

individual grahas i.e. permanent/temporary friendship or enmity.

Notwithstanding the role of dispositor, nakshatra lord, aspects and so

forth.

 

 

Ash: Perfect, so now,

here what you are telling me is that You are using a SYSTEM. i.e you need to study the Dasha, Transits,

Karakas, Friendship / Enmity of planets etc.

So in the SYSTEM you use, you need the Dasha i.e. Vimshottari dasha

and for that you need to use ayanamsa i.e. the ayanamsa you use is Lahiri to get the proper position of Moon.

In the same way, I am using a System and the ayanamsa is Krushna’s

which is the part and parcel of system.

I am first using VA to decipher the Promise in a chart and then using a

SYSTEM to find the total power just as you are, and using Ashtakavarga and

upchaya theory to find the power of planet and the Vimshottari dasha to find

the dasha and once I know the power (which is fixed in a numerical format and

it can’t be manipulated), then it becomes easy or I should say easier to

find the timing of event.

Therefore you see, each and everything that is used is given by Parasara and Varharamihira and

other sages. Ashtakavarga did hold

a prominent position amongst the sages and Saravali, Garga, Parasara, Varharamira and so many others all have referred to

Ashtakavarga in their texts. So I

can only hope that after this discussion, you will get a bit more understanding

of KAS and will understand that its no different than whats

given by the sage Parasara. There is nothing different and neither

is it any new creation as well. The

technique for timing of events, finding delay in an event using proper

mathematical calculation i.e. the math portion of of

this divine Shastra can be experienced.

 

Even before moving to foreign land (GU/RA) the dominance of 12th was

clear...or to put it more clearly the tone was set in accordance with the

significations of 12th. This is not meant to imply that 3rd lordship was

weaker in any way to 12th. Both bhavas are ruled by exalted Jupiter...how

can we say Jupiter is less powerful for 3rd than he is for 12th...No! not

at all. However the tone of Jupiter dasa is set by his moolatrikona sign.

This is my opinion based on many charts as well, of course, on my own

experience.

Ash : Wendy, your 12th house has 25 bindus and 3rd

house has 32 bindus. There is a

difference there. Both house are

ruled by Guru and Guru is exalted, but the power of Guru is different in the 2

house it rules.

Your Guru is in 7th house, therefore it makes some yogs w.r.t 3rd house i.e

from Guru, 3rd house is 9th and it makes 5:9 with 3rd

house, and yet from Guru, pisces is 6th

house. In both cases, if you check

the BAV of Guru, you will see that in both 6th and 9th

house, guru is not distributing its own bindu. So this gets considered when we say that

the power of Guru is 3 in 12th house and 2 in 3rd house.

So, when using Ashtakavarga, you are unknowingly covering Guru’s

position from 3rd house and 12th house and also from

lagna and also its relation to 6 planets so from all angles we are checking the

relation or yogas. Otherwise from what you say, the 25

bindus in 12th house and 32 bindus in 3rd house does not

have any meaning.

If you go to the next level of depth, then out of 25 bindus 3

bindus are by Guru and out of 32 bindus in 3rd, only 2 bindus are of

Ju. So despite on the surface the

TOTAL power of 3rd house is more than 12th, the power of

the lord is more in 12th as compared to 3rd.

I hope you have understood the above what I have tried to explain. If not its ok, maybe we will keep it for

our next discussion which I am sure will come up in future J for sure.

I do respect your opinion and appreciate you sharing the same. It does help me understand how you

approach the chart when analyzing.

 

 

The sages have given us many techniques and, with diligent study, I'm

sure each will produce the desired results. For my part, and I can only

speak for myself, after many years of delineating a chart according to

certain principles/techniques, I'm too set in my ways to change course

now. I'm reminded of something Maharishi once said;

 

" It can be perilous to change boats in the middle of the ocean "

 

 

Ash : I agree with you all the way. The technique of KAS and if you dwelve deeper in studying the principles on how the total

power is obtained, its nothing but based on what the Maharishis have given and

we call it a system because, we are using Ashtakavarga and the upchay theory

along with aspects, 4:10, etc etc all laws given in BPHS

and other texts and once we know the power, we use Vimshottari dasha using Krushna’s

Ayanamsa and then use the laws and mathematics to compute things like delay and

then find the proper antra when the result will happen and then time it.

 

Ashtakavarga, like many things, is steeped in controversy. North and

South India apply it differently, KAS applies it differently again. It's

something, I believe, that an astrologer must apply himself to in order

to rely on it completely. I'm too set in my ways now and it's far too

late for me to change course, I'm afraid.

 

 

Ash : I did enjoy this

discussion with you Wendy and I thank you for it. Yes, Ashtakavarga is steeped in

controversy and that is because all this system was missing or taken out or

kept with certain families. It is a

very powerful tool. In my studies

of VA, I was not able to get any concrete methodology to compute delay of

event. For example you said, that

marriage of Rajiv Gandhi took place in 1968, then why was there delay or what

is the calculation for delay of marriage?

I kept asking for some repeatable laws or an approach that I could apply

in all charts but I did not get any.

I got that in KAS. However

first things first, we need to use VA to first ascertain that if there will be

marriage.

In the chart of Indira Gandhi, 6th

lord Ju aspects 7th house and 2nd lord so that denied her

happiness in marriage but at the same time, there will be marriage. So that is VA to show that her chart

holds the promise of a marriage but less marital happiness i.e. quality. Next after ascertaining that, we can

move on for finding the Timing of Marriage.

Mathematical Calculation of Marriage.

Saturn is aspecting 7th house, Venus i.e. 11th

lord but its not aspecting 2nd house or Sun its lord. Therefore Saturn cannot cause

delay. Next

Jupiter is aspecting 7th house and 2nd lord and

Ju has more than 4 bindus therefore it will cause delay. Jupiter causes delay of about 23/24.

So marriage took place after delay period got over. Till that time they were opposed by her

father and due to society and their mindset about interfaith marriage. Due to the distance of Sun to Venus and

Aspect of Ju on 2nd lord and 7th house, it showed

problems and lack of marital life they lived separate lifes

till 1958 after the birth of their sons.

So from VA portion we can judge the overall happiness and using

Ashtakavarga we can get the timing of event.

 

 

 

Hse

 

 

SAV

 

 

Su

 

 

Mo

 

 

Ma

 

 

Me

 

 

Ju

 

 

Ve

 

 

Sa

 

 

 

 

1

 

 

24

 

 

16

 

 

13

 

 

36

 

 

19

 

 

27

 

 

12

 

 

8

 

 

 

 

2

 

 

27

 

 

11

 

 

11

 

 

26

 

 

15

 

 

26

 

 

18

 

 

13

 

 

 

 

3

 

 

36

 

 

12

 

 

14

 

 

24

 

 

25

 

 

5

 

 

17

 

 

29

 

 

 

 

4

 

 

30

 

 

19

 

 

22

 

 

29

 

 

26

 

 

23

 

 

13

 

 

11

 

 

 

 

5

 

 

28

 

 

25

 

 

12

 

 

42

 

 

11

 

 

14

 

 

11

 

 

10

 

 

 

 

6

 

 

23

 

 

9

 

 

9

 

 

18

 

 

27

 

 

24

 

 

18

 

 

15

 

 

 

 

7

 

 

22

 

 

12

 

 

13

 

 

21

 

 

28

 

 

14

 

 

16

 

 

13

 

 

 

 

8

 

 

25

 

 

13

 

 

24

 

 

33

 

 

10

 

 

14

 

 

14

 

 

15

 

 

 

 

9

 

 

33

 

 

24

 

 

13

 

 

31

 

 

24

 

 

21

 

 

15

 

 

10

 

 

 

 

10

 

 

33

 

 

12

 

 

12

 

 

28

 

 

28

 

 

15

 

 

11

 

 

19

 

 

 

 

11

 

 

32

 

 

12

 

 

15

 

 

21

 

 

14

 

 

16

 

 

19

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

12

 

 

24

 

 

19

 

 

17

 

 

26

 

 

18

 

 

19

 

 

12

 

 

15

 

 

 

 

Wendy, I am not asking you to change anything and Maharishi has

said golden words. However, from

all this discussion, I hope you have got a good understanding or atleast a

decent understanding that KAS is no different from what is given by Parasara or Varharamihira and all

this is not some new creation, but infact this

knowledge had been safeguarded by Guruji of Krushnaji and in his lineage and

Krushnaji has explained this system or brought it to light. It is a very powerful tool for Timing of

event.

 

Thanks for the discussion Wendy. Its been good and rewarding.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Ash's Corner "

<kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:56 AM

RE: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Thanks for your mail. I would like to discuss this point with you.

 

I am my reply below yours.

 

Wendy, if possible, can you or Uttra make the setting of the list into

HTML

that way, the colours and fonts will show up making it easy to read. Its

just a suggestion.

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya

 

[jyotish-vidya ]

On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Tuesday March 3, 2009 1:37 AM

jyotish-vidya

Re: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Ash,

 

Many thanks for your mail :-)

 

///I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as

well, Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio

3:2.///

 

It's quite possible that my understanding is wrong here, but, looking at

the Samudaya Ashtakavarga chart (my horoscope) Jupiter has 4 points in

12th and 4 in 6th...?

Also if, as you say, the dominant bhava is the one with more SAV points,

then Parasara's dictum that moolatrikona is dominant loses credibility,

surely?

 

Ash : No, its not exactly that way. These are two different things.

Parasara has talked of Yogas and he has also talked about sign placement

and

described the unccha, neecha, mool trikon, friends enemy etc etc.

Now, just because we talk of sign placements that does not mean we can

ignore the yogas for based on relative positioning of the planets, isn't

that so? So lets take an example where your Ju rules 12th and 3rd house

and

it has power of 3 in 12th house compared to 2 in 3rd house. So here we

are

checking the support that Guru is getting in these house as the basis of

strength i.e. yogas. So here, if we check the next level i.e. in your

chart

Ju gets 3 bindus in 12th house and that is due to the support of Ve, Ma

and

Mercury making the bindus 3 and if you check your 3rd house, there Guru

has

power of 2 and the 2 planets making a favourable yog with Guru are Ma and

Sun.

So here we are using bindus as the base and bindus would mean a positive

yog. Now here again, this will change from chart to chart or based on

the

relative positioning of planets. So here by considering the Ashtakavarga

power (bindu) we have judged the power that Guru will have in 12th house

and

3rd house. This is based on relative positioning of Guru with 7 other

planets and lagna making it 8 or ashtakavarga. (I am sure you know this,

however I am just writing it for the benefit of those readers who might

not

be aware of this).

So if you say that MT (oranges) vs Ashtakavarga (apples) then its not

proper

to compare the two. Both of them serve a different angle. With

Ashtakavarga we can get the power of yogas in each house that is under

comparision and get the ratio so in your case its 3:2 for the comparision

of

Guru for the 2 house it owns viz-a-viz 12th vs 3rd. So from this we can

gauge that the Guru has more votes in the constituency of 12th house as

compared to his constituency of 3rd house. I am just trying to give an

analogy to explain my point. Now, the 12th house ALSO happens to be the

Mool Trikon sign of Guru and 3rd house is the house it owns i.e Pisces.

So here in case in both the constituencies that Guru has i.e. Sag and

pisces

and in Cap lagna for 12th and 3rd we can gauge the power Guru gets due to

the vote of all planets 7 of them and Guru's own position w.r.t lagna as

well to study from all 8 angles that way we consider each and every

angle.

In case in both the places if Guru, got the same votes, then Guru would

act

more like MT.

Yes, in the case if say Guru were to get say 5 bindus in Pisces and 3 in

Sag

then Guru would act more as the lord of Pisces as compared to Sag in the

ration 5:3. So this will change from chart to chart and it will depend

on

the planets and their placement and also the placement of Guru w.r.t

lagna

as well so from all 8 angles the weightage and ratio of each planet will

vary in each house, so by applying Ashtakavarga we can get a proper

judgement.

In Summary :-

Now that does not mean we are saying that MT is not taking precedence

over

the 2nd house the planet rules, but this law remains constant and it is

used

as the deciding factor if the bindus in each house is equal. So as per

what

you are saying that in ALL charts MT will take precedence over the 2nd

house

irrespective of where other planets are or where the planet or the lord

of

the house is placed, in each and every case MT will ALWAYS be more

powerful

and the 2nd house will be less powerful and there is no other way to find

out the quantum of how much it will be in favour of MT as compared to the

other house it rules.

What I am saying is that with Ashtakavarga, or by considering

Ashtakavarga

power of the planet in the 2 houses it rules and in our example Guru and

since it rules 12th and 3rd then by checking Guru's power i.e. we are

considering the yogas from 8 angles to find out in detail who is

supporting

guru. That will become the basis of comparision of power and in case if

both have same yogs or getting equal power then MT will take precedence.

So

here I am utilizing both things that Parasara has said i.e. Yog support

of

SAV and then the MT theory as well. This will change in each chart based

on

the planets are placed and the lord of the sign in our case Guru is

placed

as well so we cover all 8 angles. We can then also get the ratio in

mathematical terms like 3:2 in favour of which house.

Say, in case of Saturn which is the only planet that can give 0 in the

place it is in, so in some case if Sa is placed in Aqu with 0 bindus and

Capricorn has 4 bindus then Saturn will be more towards Capricorn as in

the

sign of Aqu no planet are supporting Saturn despite it being its MT and

it

being placed in it. If we go by MT theory only and not consider the SAV

or

the Yogas then you will take Sa to be strong in MT in Aqu but in Aqu

itself

has no power or no planets are in favour of Sa or lending their support

or

casting their vote. So with Astakavarga it can give more clarity.

I hope you have understood what I have tried to explain.

 

///I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.///

 

I do appreciate the effort you've put into delineating this chart and I'm

keen to go through it leisurely so as to not miss any of your points.

Unfortunately time is against me at the moment...hopefully this evening

sometime I will be able to spend some time on this (absorbing what you

say).

 

Ash : Thanks Wendy for taking time to understand what I have tried to

explain. It is very difficult to explain something on email though I do

find that. Yes, also please go though my mail and point out the points

that

you feel are not in line so either I can try to clarify what I was

meaning

to say or I can correct myself and it will be good learning for me.

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Ash's Corner

<Corner%40ashtro.ca> "

<kas

<kas%40ashtro.ca> >

<jyotish-vidya

 

<jyotish-vidya%40>

>

Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:34 AM

RE: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding your chart, which you had made reference of it. In your chart

you

wrote " My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships

manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence. "

 

I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as well,

Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio 3:2.

 

So your experiences are all in line with Ashtakavarga as well.

 

I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.

 

I will write all my findings in the terms of Parasara (which are all used

in

KAS to get the power in numerical format)

 

Mars is in 4:10 with Sun and Mercury. Mars is yogakarak for the chart.

(upto here this is given in Parasara about yogakarak that for cancer

lagna,

Ma is yogakarak). Now here Ma is in 4:10 with sun, this is given as

parasparakaraka or mutual cosignificators I believe. Ma has 2 bindus and

Sun has 4 bindus. Ma is natural 1st lord and 8th lord and Sun is natural

5th lord therefore Karak for 6th and 1st has got control and power from

the

natural karak for authority, making this chart very powerful. Mars then

is

in karak sthan from Moon as well which is lagnesh and Mo which is lagna

lord

is in the navamsa of Aqu therefore its samdharmi to Shani who is placed

in

lagna and is in 6th from Aqu i.e. its own house in Rasi. Now, navamsa

depositor is also considered here as you are considering as per parasara.

 

Lagna, and Mars have become very powerful in this chart and that is

required for becoming a Strong Prime Minister who is capable of taking

and

implementing difficult decisions. Sun is also in the sign of Scorpio and

it's a fixed sign as well and in navamsa also its in Leo which is again

its

own sign and fixed sign and the Karakansha is again in 5th house in Rasi

which is the karak of authority and the mool karak for parakram or 3rd

house. This powerful sun is giving power to Mars .

 

Coming to Jupiter, Jupiter is in 6th house from 6th house of the chart

i.e

in Taurus. This will make Guru very powerful as the Karak for 11th house

i.e. 6th lord is in 6th house or Upchay sthan and in other words, Karak

has

come to Phal sthan. This makes Guru very powerful and its in Retro.

Upto

here also all this is given by Parasara about Upchay sthan i.e. the house

of

growth, heap and prosperity. In addition, Guru as 9th lord is in 3rd

house

from 9th but at the same time its in 8th house from Libra. Therefore the

status of Guru has become very powerful. Now Guru is again in navamsa of

Taurus i.e. vargottam. Venus is placed in 6th house in Rasi so it will

give

conflicts and enemies. Venus is also in Karak sthan from Guru.

 

Coming to Shani. Shani too is in 6th house form 8th house. This will

give

the Prime Minister very powerful personality. I believe Sa in Cancer in

lagna is referred to as a Raj yog or Maharaj yog. Again the same

principle

of upchaya i.e the karak i.e. functional karak for lagna is 8th and its

lord

is in Lagna the same way, Ju is in 6th from Sag in Tau.

 

Now here, in this case to elucidate the point of MT taking precedence,

here

Sa rules 7th and 8th house and if you check the SAV, you will see that

both

7th and 8th house have 1 bindu each. So in this case, MT will take

precedence of the 2 i.e. Sa is with equal power representing 7th house

and

8th house lord but here MT will take precedence.

 

Saturn as 7th lord is eager to give 10th house result and so is Mercury

as

they are upchaya from both karak and phal sthan i.e here I am focused on

10th house. Same way, for success and income, 11th house , Sa is 8th

house

lord i.e .10th from 11th and a powerful upchay. So Sa is a powerful

antra

to give income and authority for the prime minister.

 

Saturn is again in navamsa of Capricorn in navamsa which is the 7th house

of

Rasi. The karak for Authority is Mangal and that has become very

powerful

as I have talked above.

 

Next we will talk of Mool Karak, and that is mercury and again that is in

6th house from 12th house its own sign. So here again, the results of

12th

house are enhanced. So mool karak has come into the karak sthan for

Authority.

 

Regarding marriage, 6th lord is not conducive to the result of marriage

and

status of Venus and Guru are to be noted. Here Guru is the 6th lord (as

it

has more power as compared to 9th house) so it will have proportionally

more

power to do damage to 7th house matters. Guru is also natural mool karak

i.e. karak of Venus or natural 9th lord.

 

Here Guru is powerful in SAV as it has 6 bindus. Therefore it will

aspect

7th house and 2nd lord i.e. phal sthan and Karak with malefic dristi and

it

will destroy or depart her husband from her. This ju will become very

malefic. Venus is also spoilt i.e. the natural karak as it is 47 deg

away

from Sun and its aspected by Saturn and it is in 6th house and conjoined

by

Ra. Here Sa is aspecting Ve in navamsa. This also spoils marital life

and

happiness.

 

12th lord is in 5th house and results of 12th house and karak for 5th

house

are enhanced. She also has blessings as lagna and 9th lord from lagna

and

moon are in nav pancham 5:9. Here child also became the prime minister

i.e

Rajiv Gandhi. The blessing from her father helped her become the prime

minister as well.

 

Guru and Mars are powerful to give Indira Gandhi good power to 1st house

of

SELF. Ju is 6th lord and Mars is 10th lord both are powerful upchaya.

Both

these lords have become powerful.

 

I will refer to what you wrote in a point by point manner

 

You wrote

 

" For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly.

 

Ash : I have given the calculation of that, as we use it in KAS. i.e a

layer of AV is used to judge the bindus to see in which sign does Jupiter

getting more bindus or in other words, in which sign does Jupiter making

good relation with 7th planets and lagna. So that becomes the basis of

comparison. Next if there is a tie breaker i.e. if both are equal then

MT

will take precedence. This is as per VA only and as you say as per

Parasara.

 

Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-) "

 

Ash : Yes, Ju is 6th and 9th lord, so to ascertain Ju is more powerful as

which sign lord we judge the SAV power i.e. bindu. So in the chart of

Indira Gandhi, Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 in 9th house therefore

it

will act more like 6th lord in the proportion of 5:4. Now here 6th house

is

also MT. What you are doing is for each and every chart you will

consider

MT to be more powerful irrespective of AV bindus obtained i.e you are

ignoring the yog power that Ju gets support in each house and are using

the

Sign to determine. But at the same time you are saying that it will act

like both but more like MT. So in KAS, we ALSO check the yogs power of

the

planet in the dual house it owns and then are able to determine the

proportion who it will be more like and then if in case of tie breaker

then

we go for MT. So by adding a layer of SAV, you can get more precise

value.

So here in Indira Gandhi's chart and also in your chart, what you have

observed is also in line with KAS i.e. by adding another layer of SAV.

So

for Indira Gandhi its 5:4 with 6th house having 5 bindus which is also MT

and in your chart as well Ju as 3rd and 12th lord Ju has 2 and 3 bindus

respectively with 12th house getting 3 therefore the ratio will be 3:2 in

favor of MT.

 

Ju is also 6th lord and its aspect on 7th house and 2nd lord Sun has also

not given her marital happiness. Venus is also spoilt as its distance to

Sun is 47 deg and aspected by Saturn and Saturn aspects a luminary.

Venus

is also in 6th house. Venus also conjoins Rahu in 6th house. Jupiter is

retro as well and as per KAS it enhances the result of the house it is

placed in and the house its karak for. I do not know if Parasara has

said

this, so you can please clarify. Now Ju is natural karak for children

and

its children and karak for family has enhanced the status of her family

and

children as well. Venus is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and

Ju

is in the navamsa of Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord

is

Venus. Her daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today.

So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.

 

In order to overcome rivals, her Mars and individuality must also be

strong

which it is as I have explained in this mail. She also must be

intelligent

so if you check her navamsa, Dreshkon and Trishansa she has 3 sectors

falling in the sign of Saturn and 2 in Mercury i.e. lagna sun and moon

(parasara has told to check all laws from lagna sun and moon so that is

being followed here as well). She has 1 sector in Sun and 2 of mars

showing

daring and leadership qualities as well. This is her inner nature and

intelligence.

 

Ju is 6th lord and its 10th lord or upchay for 9th house and therefore it

will also be eager to bestow luck to her or help grow her 9th house. So

I

agree with you regarding luck and 6th house relation.

 

Phew, it's a long email.

 

I would like to thank you for citing Indira Gandhi's chart which I had

not

studied in this much detail till now. All the laws I have used are all

given by parasara and other seers. In all of this I have not discussed

timing of event but general VA. There is so much more depth to which one

can go to, but its not possible to on email.

 

The essence of the mail is that when planets are in upchay or the lords

of

the upchay they help grow the signification of the house. In Indira

Gandhi's chart, Ju, Sa, Me are in 6th from own house and Ma is in 10th

from

own house.

 

In Navamsa, Sa is in own house, Ju is in 6th from own house, Ma is in 6th

from own house, Ve is in 6th from own house and in MT,

 

Wendy, just see your chart as well. Saturn is in 6th from 1st house.

Making your 1st house very powerful along with 30 bindus. Your Mars is

in

10th from Sun and Venus and your Mars has 3 bindus and Ve and Sun have 4

each. Similar in many ways like Indira Gandhi. This makes Mars very

powerful and your individuality. You too have 4 sectors of Mercury i.e

lagna sun and moon falling in sectors of Mercury making your very

brilliant

and clever. Your Jupiter is in 7th house with 3 bindus and its in 10th

place from Moon with 7 bindus. This is a very powerful Gaj Kesari Yog

where

your Guru will become very powerful. You cannot tolerate injustice or

persons who cheat. So a person with strong Guru and Mars become more

spiritual as its natural 1st and 9th lord and 12th and 8th lord of

Kalpurush

chart. Gives good name and fame and powerful individuality (mars) and

powerful 9th and 12th house results so luck and the path to moksh

(enjoyment

and happiness and bliss).

 

I hope I have not caused any confusion.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

[Guest guest]

Dear

Wendy,

 

I

have just replied to your earlier mail regarding VA and Timing of Events. I agree with you that we both approach the

chart differently both using the techniques given by Parasara

and other sages, the end point is the same.

All roads lead to Rome J

 

I

will end this discussion here as I think its run its course.

 

Thanks

for indulging me and making me study the chart of Indira

Gandhi.

 

Maybe

next time we will take up Rajiv Gandhi J

 

Thanks,

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya

[jyotish-vidya ] On

Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Wednesday March 4, 2009

12:06 PM

jyotish-vidya

Re: Re:

Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ash,

 

///Phew, it's a long email.///

 

You're not wrong there! You've put so much effort into this and I have to

admit that I'm feeling more than a little dim-witted as it's almost, at

times, like we're speaking two (different) languages. You've studied KAS

for a long time, Ash, and I have not studied this particular application

at all...no doubt this tired brain of mine is at a distinct disadvantage.

 

So, for now, as I tend to tire very easily these days, let me just

respond to a few points of interest in Indira Gandhi's chart.

 

/// Now Ju is natural karak for children and its children and karak for

family has enhanced the status of her family and children as well. Venus

is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and Ju is in the navamsa of

Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord is Venus. Her

daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today. So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.///

 

I would consider YogaKaraka Mars, owning 7th from Jupiter, as a

significator of her son's spouse. This Mars in 2nd house of family

denotes a powerful ambitious family, and by what little I know, Sonia

Gandhi followed the footsteps of her husband (Rajiv) when she entered

politics. We could say then that both Indira's son and daughter-in-law

followed similar paths...5th lord (children) being 7th from Jupiter

(children's spouse). The parivartana yoga (exchange of 2nd/5th lords).

This maha yoga creates great affluence, high position and so forth...

 

This would seem to be confirmed by looking at the dasa running at the

time of Rajiv's marriage (28 Feb 1968)...JU-MA-KE-MA. Note Ketu in 12th

and his dispositor (Mercury) in 5th. Sonia Gandhi, I believe, was born in

Italy.

 

Sorry to have to leave this here for now...it's extremely late and I must

get some rest. I just wanted to show (briefly) how differently we look at

a chart. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, just that this

is the way I approach it.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Ash's Corner "

<kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:34 AM

RE: Re: Indira Gandhi's chart & Wendy's Chart

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding your chart, which you had made reference of it. In your chart

you

wrote " My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships

manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence. "

 

I just got a chance to go though your chart, and in your chart as well,

Ju

has 3 bindus in 12th house which is Sag, compared to 2 bindus in the 3rd

house of Pisces. Therefore MT does take a precedence in the ratio 3:2.

 

So your experiences are all in line with Ashtakavarga as well.

 

I also got a chance to go though Indira Gandhi's chart and I will make

some

notes and hopefully you and list members will understand or atleast try

to.

 

I will write all my findings in the terms of Parasara (which are all used

in

KAS to get the power in numerical format)

 

Mars is in 4:10 with Sun and Mercury. Mars is yogakarak for the chart.

(upto here this is given in Parasara about yogakarak that for cancer

lagna,

Ma is yogakarak). Now here Ma is in 4:10 with sun, this is given as

parasparakaraka or mutual cosignificators I believe. Ma has 2 bindus and

Sun has 4 bindus. Ma is natural 1st lord and 8th lord and Sun is natural

5th lord therefore Karak for 6th and 1st has got control and power from

the

natural karak for authority, making this chart very powerful. Mars then

is

in karak sthan from Moon as well which is lagnesh and Mo which is lagna

lord

is in the navamsa of Aqu therefore its samdharmi to Shani who is placed

in

lagna and is in 6th from Aqu i.e. its own house in Rasi. Now, navamsa

depositor is also considered here as you are considering as per parasara.

 

Lagna, and Mars have become very powerful in this chart and that is

required for becoming a Strong Prime Minister who is capable of taking

and

implementing difficult decisions. Sun is also in the sign of Scorpio and

it's a fixed sign as well and in navamsa also its in Leo which is again

its

own sign and fixed sign and the Karakansha is again in 5th house in Rasi

which is the karak of authority and the mool karak for parakram or 3rd

house. This powerful sun is giving power to Mars .

 

Coming to Jupiter, Jupiter is in 6th house from 6th house of the chart

i.e

in Taurus. This will make Guru very powerful as the Karak for 11th house

i.e. 6th lord is in 6th house or Upchay sthan and in other words, Karak

has

come to Phal sthan. This makes Guru very powerful and its in Retro.

Upto

here also all this is given by Parasara about Upchay sthan i.e. the house

of

growth, heap and prosperity. In addition, Guru as 9th lord is in 3rd

house

from 9th but at the same time its in 8th house from Libra. Therefore the

status of Guru has become very powerful. Now Guru is again in navamsa of

Taurus i.e. vargottam. Venus is placed in 6th house in Rasi so it will

give

conflicts and enemies. Venus is also in Karak sthan from Guru.

 

Coming to Shani. Shani too is in 6th house form 8th house. This will

give

the Prime Minister very powerful personality. I believe Sa in Cancer in

lagna is referred to as a Raj yog or Maharaj yog. Again the same

principle

of upchaya i.e the karak i.e. functional karak for lagna is 8th and its

lord

is in Lagna the same way, Ju is in 6th from Sag in Tau.

 

Now here, in this case to elucidate the point of MT taking precedence,

here

Sa rules 7th and 8th house and if you check the SAV, you will see that

both

7th and 8th house have 1 bindu each. So in this case, MT will take

precedence of the 2 i.e. Sa is with equal power representing 7th house

and

8th house lord but here MT will take precedence.

 

Saturn as 7th lord is eager to give 10th house result and so is Mercury

as

they are upchaya from both karak and phal sthan i.e here I am focused on

10th house. Same way, for success and income, 11th house , Sa is 8th

house

lord i.e .10th from 11th and a powerful upchay. So Sa is a powerful

antra

to give income and authority for the prime minister.

 

Saturn is again in navamsa of Capricorn in navamsa which is the 7th house

of

Rasi. The karak for Authority is Mangal and that has become very

powerful

as I have talked above.

 

Next we will talk of Mool Karak, and that is mercury and again that is in

6th house from 12th house its own sign. So here again, the results of

12th

house are enhanced. So mool karak has come into the karak sthan for

Authority.

 

Regarding marriage, 6th lord is not conducive to the result of marriage

and

status of Venus and Guru are to be noted. Here Guru is the 6th lord (as

it

has more power as compared to 9th house) so it will have proportionally

more

power to do damage to 7th house matters. Guru is also natural mool karak

i.e. karak of Venus or natural 9th lord.

 

Here Guru is powerful in SAV as it has 6 bindus. Therefore it will

aspect

7th house and 2nd lord i.e. phal sthan and Karak with malefic dristi and

it

will destroy or depart her husband from her. This ju will become very

malefic. Venus is also spoilt i.e. the natural karak as it is 47 deg

away

from Sun and its aspected by Saturn and it is in 6th house and conjoined

by

Ra. Here Sa is aspecting Ve in navamsa. This also spoils marital life

and

happiness.

 

12th lord is in 5th house and results of 12th house and karak for 5th

house

are enhanced. She also has blessings as lagna and 9th lord from lagna

and

moon are in nav pancham 5:9. Here child also became the prime minister

i.e

Rajiv Gandhi. The blessing from her father helped her become the prime

minister as well.

 

Guru and Mars are powerful to give Indira Gandhi good power to 1st house

of

SELF. Ju is 6th lord and Mars is 10th lord both are powerful upchaya.

Both

these lords have become powerful.

 

I will refer to what you wrote in a point by point manner

 

You wrote

 

" For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly.

 

Ash : I have given the calculation of that, as we use it in KAS. i.e a

layer of AV is used to judge the bindus to see in which sign does Jupiter

getting more bindus or in other words, in which sign does Jupiter making

good relation with 7th planets and lagna. So that becomes the basis of

comparison. Next if there is a tie breaker i.e. if both are equal then

MT

will take precedence. This is as per VA only and as you say as per

Parasara.

 

Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-) "

 

Ash : Yes, Ju is 6th and 9th lord, so to ascertain Ju is more powerful as

which sign lord we judge the SAV power i.e. bindu. So in the chart of

Indira Gandhi, Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 in 9th house therefore

it

will act more like 6th lord in the proportion of 5:4. Now here 6th house

is

also MT. What you are doing is for each and every chart you will

consider

MT to be more powerful irrespective of AV bindus obtained i.e you are

ignoring the yog power that Ju gets support in each house and are using

the

Sign to determine. But at the same time you are saying that it will act

like both but more like MT. So in KAS, we ALSO check the yogs power of

the

planet in the dual house it owns and then are able to determine the

proportion who it will be more like and then if in case of tie breaker

then

we go for MT. So by adding a layer of SAV, you can get more precise

value.

So here in Indira Gandhi's chart and also in your chart, what you have

observed is also in line with KAS i.e. by adding another layer of SAV.

So

for Indira Gandhi its 5:4 with 6th house having 5 bindus which is also MT

and in your chart as well Ju as 3rd and 12th lord Ju has 2 and 3 bindus

respectively with 12th house getting 3 therefore the ratio will be 3:2 in

favor of MT.

 

Ju is also 6th lord and its aspect on 7th house and 2nd lord Sun has also

not given her marital happiness. Venus is also spoilt as its distance to

Sun is 47 deg and aspected by Saturn and Saturn aspects a luminary.

Venus

is also in 6th house. Venus also conjoins Rahu in 6th house. Jupiter is

retro as well and as per KAS it enhances the result of the house it is

placed in and the house its karak for. I do not know if Parasara has

said

this, so you can please clarify. Now Ju is natural karak for children

and

its children and karak for family has enhanced the status of her family

and

children as well. Venus is the wife of her sun i.e. 11th house lord and

Ju

is in the navamsa of Taurus which is again 11th lord in Rasi and its lord

is

Venus. Her daughter in law is very powerful personality in India today.

So

the results of 11th house have enhanced as well.

 

In order to overcome rivals, her Mars and individuality must also be

strong

which it is as I have explained in this mail. She also must be

intelligent

so if you check her navamsa, Dreshkon and Trishansa she has 3 sectors

falling in the sign of Saturn and 2 in Mercury i.e. lagna sun and moon

(parasara has told to check all laws from lagna sun and moon so that is

being followed here as well). She has 1 sector in Sun and 2 of mars

showing

daring and leadership qualities as well. This is her inner nature and

intelligence.

 

Ju is 6th lord and its 10th lord or upchay for 9th house and therefore it

will also be eager to bestow luck to her or help grow her 9th house. So

I

agree with you regarding luck and 6th house relation.

 

Phew, it's a long email.

 

I would like to thank you for citing Indira Gandhi's chart which I had

not

studied in this much detail till now. All the laws I have used are all

given by parasara and other seers. In all of this I have not discussed

timing of event but general VA. There is so much more depth to which one

can go to, but its not possible to on email.

 

The essence of the mail is that when planets are in upchay or the lords

of

the upchay they help grow the signification of the house. In Indira

Gandhi's chart, Ju, Sa, Me are in 6th from own house and Ma is in 10th

from

own house.

 

In Navamsa, Sa is in own house, Ju is in 6th from own house, Ma is in 6th

from own house, Ve is in 6th from own house and in MT,

 

Wendy, just see your chart as well. Saturn is in 6th from 1st house.

Making your 1st house very powerful along with 30 bindus. Your Mars is

in

10th from Sun and Venus and your Mars has 3 bindus and Ve and Sun have 4

each. Similar in many ways like Indira Gandhi. This makes Mars very

powerful and your individuality. You too have 4 sectors of Mercury i.e

lagna sun and moon falling in sectors of Mercury making your very

brilliant

and clever. Your Jupiter is in 7th house with 3 bindus and its in 10th

place from Moon with 7 bindus. This is a very powerful Gaj Kesari Yog

where

your Guru will become very powerful. You cannot tolerate injustice or

persons who cheat. So a person with strong Guru and Mars become more

spiritual as its natural 1st and 9th lord and 12th and 8th lord of

Kalpurush

chart. Gives good name and fame and powerful individuality (mars) and

powerful 9th and 12th house results so luck and the path to moksh

(enjoyment

and happiness and bliss).

 

I hope I have not caused any confusion.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya

 

[jyotish-vidya ]

On Behalf Of Ash's Corner

Sunday March 1, 2009 1:19 PM

jyotish-vidya

RE: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Regarding the precedence of MT over own sign (Continuation)

 

If you check Indira Gandhi's chart, then check the SAV points of Ju in

6th

and 9th house. Ju has 5 bindus in 6th house and 4 bindus in 9th house. In

Indira Gandhi's chart MT will take precedence. Even if 9th and 6th had

equal bindus, still MT would take precedence.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

Ash's Corner

<Corner%40ashtro.ca>

[kas <kas%40ashtro.ca>

]

Sunday March 1, 2009 1:11 PM

'jyotish-vidya

<%27jyotish-vidya%40> '

RE: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Wendy,

 

You had asked for opinion and I gave my opinion. No need to lecture me on

what is list policy of JV as I am aware of it and many a times I have

sent

mails first to your private email address to make sure that it would not

create any confusion.

 

I would like to comment on 2 things only to keep the record straight as

you

I believe are making statements without proper knowledge or understanding

of

KAS.

 

Regarding the precedence of MT over own sign.

 

Definitely, MT will take over precedence and that is correct, however, we

first check the bindus obtained in each house. So if Ju rules 3rd and 6th

then we check the bindus or Ju's power in each house. Say if Ju has 3

bindus in 3rd and 4 bindus in 6th house then Jupiter is more towards 6th

house lord and lesser in proportion as 3rd lord. That ratio would be 3:4.

 

Now if say 3rd is Sag and 6th is Pisces then we weigh that. Now if Ju has

more power in Pisces i.e lets say 4 bindus vs Sag has 3 then Ju will be

more

towards as lord of pisces in proportion of 4:3. If both lords have equal

power say if both had 5 bindus each then MT will be more powerful.

 

If you are using Yogas as given by Parasara then SAV gives us the

relation

and power and the bindus i.e. yogs give by Guru in say 3rd vs 6th. If

Guru

has more power i.e say 4 bindus in 6th house which is pisces means its

having more positive power i.e. yogas in 6th compared to 3rd if 3rd house

has say 3 bindus.

 

Regarding Vimshottari Dasha

 

Vimshottari dasha is used in KAS only (I think you know this, but if not,

please make a note of it).

 

KAS and unique system

 

Systems Approach is a creation by Professor VK Choudhary. KAS is a part

of

VA and has been kept in the lineage of Krushna ji's Guru ji. All the laws

of VA are followed only in the system of KAS. Please make a note of this

as

well. From what you have written, it seems that you are under the

impression that all this KAS is a new creation and that what makes it

unique.

 

Regarding discussion of Indira Gandhi's chart

 

I shall not write on that here as I don't think you or anyone else will

understand it.

 

My Opinion

 

In my opinion KAS is part and parcel of VA. All the laws of VA are

followed

as given by Parasara. Ashtakavarga is used to find the power of planet

instead of sign placement. Now Ashtakavarga is given by Parasara,

Vimshottari dasha is given, the 3 aspects of Ju, Ma and Sa are given, the

planets sign placement is same, the MT and Exaltation i.e. sign and bindu

wise are also given and same as given by parasara, aspects as per

parasara

is used which is same as given by Parasara, 4:10 principle which are

mutual

Significators are used which is given by parasara, samdharmis are given

by

parasara which are planest in same sign, same nakshatra, navamsa

depositer,

4:10) and upchay theory which is also given by Parasara. Vimshottari

dasha

is used in KAS which is given by Parasara as well. D chart are also used

which are as per parasara.

 

Let me know what is not as per Parasara so I can make a note of it.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya

 

<jyotish-vidya%40>

[jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40> ]

On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Sunday March 1, 2009 10:41 AM

jyotish-vidya

 

<jyotish-vidya%40>

Re: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Ash,

 

For the sake of clarity I'd like to respond to just one point made in the

preface " Intro to Krushna's Ashtakavarga System " .

 

Preface:

///For a Cancer ascendant, Jupiter is the lord of the sixth and the ninth

house. Confusion

arises when we have to consider which lord to take into consideration.///

 

Parasara makes it quite clear that Moolatrikona takes precedence over Own

Sign. For Cancer, although Jupiter's ownership of 9th makes him

auspicious for this lagna, 6th is his moolatrikona house and will show

these effects strongly. Looking at Indira Gandhi's chart as an example,

we find 6th/9th lord Jupiter aspecting lagnesh Moon (in 7th) from 11th

house of gains (income, profits, auspicious events, long term desires)

etc, etc.. We can see clearly how she fulfilled her desires (11th)

through her ability to overcome her (political) rivals (6th). And there

can be little doubt that the fulfillment of these long term desires was

supported by Jupiter's 9th lordship...solutions to problems, support of

nature etc, etc.. Success requires a certain amount of luck as well as

effort/work, wouldn't you agree :-)

 

Of course Indira Gandhi did face reversals at certain times, due, I

believe, to Jupiter being in retrograde motion.

 

For my part, at least, there is no confusion as to which lordship should

be considered...both have a role to play. My own experience of Jupiter

dasa (3rd/12th lord) confirmed absolutely that the effects of both

lordships manifest...with moolatrikona taking precedence.

 

As we both know, Ash, Krushna's Ashtakavarga System is a unique system of

prediction. In much the same way that V.K. Choudhry's " Systems

Approach "

is a unique system. Here on JV we endeavour to follow Parasara's

(preferred) Vimsottari system.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Ash's Corner

<Corner%40ashtro.ca>

<Corner%40ashtro.ca> " <kas

<kas%40ashtro.ca>

<kas%40ashtro.ca> >

<jyotish-vidya

 

<jyotish-vidya%40>

<jyotish-vidya%40>

>

Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:58 PM

RE: Re: Gulika in lagna.

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Ashtakavarga is to gauge the power of a planet. When charting the SAV,

one

automatically covers all the yoga's which are based on the relative

position

from each other and lagna. Ashtakavarga and powers found from it can be

used to find the timing of event. One must know Vedic portion first and

then can use Ashtakavarga system to pin point the timing of events. In

KAS,

we use the upchay system along with Ashtakavarga and VA portion i.e.

consideration of upchay houses and its lords, aspects on house, planets,

consideration of 6th lord and 12th lord from any house etc etc to come to

the final power for all 7 planets for all 12 houses in a numerical format

and then calculate the powers in all 16 D charts for all 7 planets and in

all 12 houses respectively. So we can get the power of each and every

planet and in each and every house using Ashtakavarga. Yes, in D charts,

we

do not consider the powers gained due to 4:10 and aspects on house /

planets, we just add the power in the primary upchay house. This is as

per

KAS system. I do not know how others take this into consideration.

 

So, in summary, Ashtakavarga is used to find the power of planet and in

ashtakavarga, we consider the yog's and bindus so the positive yogs that

a

planet makes with respect to each other and lagna. The sign placement is

not considered for judging the power of planet. The sign placement is

used

to find the quality.

 

Let us take an example, take Jupiter is in Capricorn and say one is

studying

event of marriage for timing of it, then after delay period if antra of

Jupiter is running and Jupiter has more than 12 points i.e. cumulative

then

it will give a happy event so if the marriage is judged as happy (based

on

certain laws of VA), then for timing of event, under certain conditions

(i.e

it should not aspect 2nd, 7th or 11th with the exception if its 4th or

12th

lord) then it can give marriage. So upto here we have not factored in

the

sign placement but used Ashtakavarga to judge the power of Guru.

 

Next is to judge the quality so the first step is to consider the Sign

placement so here its in the sign of neecha so the Multiplication factor

for

Ju in Capricorn is 0.8 so u can multiply the total power obtained from

above

and multiply by 0.8 to gauge the " sign backing " .

 

Without Ashtakavarga, as per the standard texts the way one tries to

obtain

the power of a planet primarily using the sign and then navamsa position,

d

charts and yogas.

 

So if one see's sun in libra or Guru in Capricorn in Rasi then one says

its

weakened then u will study the depositor to gauge the power of Ju as

well,

then u might study the navamsa to ascertain its navamsa depositor etc

etc,

means in some way or the other, one is trying to find / gauge the power

of a

planet to deliver the result.

 

There is a misconception that Ashtakavarga is used to fine tune the

events

based on Transits. On the contrary the whole system is based on relative

positioning of planets w.r.t each other and lagna. With Ashtakavarga it

eliminates the need to remember all the yogas and their contra's as its

covered in SAV.

 

So once u cast the SAV that is just the beginning. Then to gauge the

total

power of planets, the principle of Vedic Astrology have to be applied,

i.e.

4:10 principle which is called parasparak karak I believe, next is

consideration of upchay lords i.e. secondary upchay after that we need

to

consider planets aspecting planets and the primary upchay house. So if

one

is trying to find everything from SAV then he or she might be able to use

transits only. But if one applies the full system then one can find the

timing of event.

 

So in standard texts only SAV is given and then some other portion is

given

like trikona reduction and some such method which do not work

consistently.

 

Now you can call this supplemental or portion that is missing from VA or

whatsoever, but it gives us very clear method to find the timing of

event.

 

I hope this helps,

Cheers !!!

Ash - http://www.ashtro.ca