Karma and Destiny

November 13, 2008

Dear Vic,

Let me respond. But first I refer to your post (#8463) on May

16, 2008 in which you stated that you were a beginner and were hopeful

that your commencement of JU/ME period would be beneficial for quick

assimilation of basic facts required for entry level proficiency into

astrology. Now, just six months later, you write the following...to which

I would like to respond, if I may.

1. (To Balaji)

//Yor mention that Sukra " becomes a malefic " . I know that is widely

accepted language. But I propose a change. I shall stop using the

terms " functional benefic " or " functional malefic " or any permutation

like " becoming a malefic " because I feel it is counter-intuitive and

ruins a clear understanding.//

What you're proposing is counter to Parasara's (Vimsottari) principles.

Are you so confident that you feel you can " change " the dictums set forth

by this great sage? To choose not to mention the functional M/B

disposition of planets to a client (who may be confused with

technicalities he knows nothing about) is one thing...to suggest, on a

Parasara discussion group, that you propose to " make a change " to the

rules governing Vimsottari is quite another.

2. (To Balaji)

//Also, as an astrologer I myself don't believe in " fate " - rather I

believe in Karma - which is significantly different because " fate " is

set in stone and outside your control, while Karma is in a constant

state of change and is 100% due to your own decisions and actions.//

The problem here, which I don't seem to be able to explain to you (no

matter how hard I try) is that you're half right and half wrong...let me

try just one more time. Prarabdha karma is the karma (destiny/fate) we

are obliged to go through during this lifetime...this is fact!

BTW destiny does mean the same thing as fate. As an example; Destiny is

defined as " the inevitable or necessary fate to which a particular person

or thing is destined. "

At this stage I can only reiterate that Kriyamana is the only thing that

we (might) in any way shape through our own free-will. Even this, like a

dog on a leash, can only be within the parameters allowed by prarabdha.

We can go on infinitum splitting hairs about the meaning of fate/destiny,

but really I think we should, as I suggested previously, just try to

(amicably if possible) agree to disagree.

3. (To Balaji)

//And finally if you think your hand broke from " no fault of your own "

you must feel terribly maligned by " fate. " In my opinion your hand

broke (and everything else that ever happened " to " you) in an attempt to

raise your consciousness and help your evolution towards enlightenment -

and in a specific education program tailored by the laws of karma as

reactions to your previous actions over 1, 10 and 1000s of lifetimes.//

You're half right that Balaji's broken hand was a result of past actions.

However this was pre-ordained at the moment of birth...just waiting for

the appropriate dasa/transit to bring this (prarabdha) karma to fruition.

4. (To Me)

//I may be wrong, but I would be very surprised as I have studied this

with extreme care under the guidance of Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya Guru

parampara in the holy Vraja-Dham in India over a period of many years.//

Unfortunately your understanding is based on your religious (ISKCON)

training rather than the principles of jyotish. Many things pertaining to

my religion appear to be contradictory to jyotish; however, after 20 yrs

of study/practice, I've come to a much deeper understanding of the

complimentary subtleties involved. Parasara is the Guru when it comes to

jyotish... My religious faith has it's own dimension which, for me, is

complimentary to jyotish...rather than contradictory.

5. (To Me)

//Are we certain that what the horoscope indicates is entirely set in

stone? I am more of the opinion that Karma is a swirling abstract

energy, not a list of deeds inscribed into a tablet. I feel that

karmic energy can create one outcome or the other depending on how it is

directed - must as electric directed into a radiator creates heat, but

directed into an air conditioner creates cold.//

Prarabdha is specific...this is why astrologers are able to read the

horoscope. I'm truly surprised you don't understand this?

6. (To the Group)

//If it is as Sri Ramana Maharshi says, and the only will is the divine

will and everything else is predestined - then we must conclude that

god is biased because he gives some people happiness and others

distress. If those individuals are not themselves responsible for

their happiness or suffering, then it is all due to the will of god -

and such a god is reprehensible for his gives one being pleasure (for

no reason) and another he gives pain (for no reason). Vedanta cannot

accept such a flawed conception of Godhead. Therefore Sri Ramana

Maharshi is incorrect.//

Unfortunately you have totally misunderstood Sri Ramana Maharshi's

concept. Perhaps we can discuss this further another time.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

jyotish-vidya , Vic D <vicdicara wrote:

Hello all!

I just d to this group today. I am a beginner and am

looking forward to interacting with all of you. My name is either

" Vic " or " Vraj Kishor " - whatever you like. I spent a lot of time as a

Bramachary in ISKCON/Hare Krishna where I got good exposure to

Sanskrit etc. In Rahu-Mercury I ran a school for studying Gita, Isa-

Upanishad, and Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu of Rupa Goswami based on the

Sankrit. Then in Rahu-Venus I got married. I have bad marital karma,

but a great wife who has the ability to bend that karma and keep

things together and auspicious for us. We're now together with two

boys. One Scorpio Asc and one Pices Asc. I also spent a decade

involved in professional punk-rock music (Rahu) in a band called

" 108 " . This continues to this day.

I work in computers, mainly programming and development of websites

in PHP, with some sales.

I'm just entering Jupiter-Mercury now, which I hope will be

beneficial for quick assimilation of basic facts required for entry level

proficiency into astrology.

I'm Cap Asc, with Taurus moon.

Again, looking forward to interacting with all of you.

Yours,

V

November 13, 2008

Dear Vic,

I was browsing through your site and, following the link (108), came

across your blog (May 7th 2008) in which you stated (even then,

presumably at the beginning of your studies) that...

///Karma is NOT fate. There are two reasons why.

1) Fate is something caused by someone or something else that you MUST

endure. Karma on the other hand is something that you have created

yourself. Your own actions create your own karma - not " god " or anyone

besides yourself.///

Perhaps one has to have already lived out a fair amount of their karma to

truly understand the true meaning behind the common saying; " Bad things

happen to good people all the time...apparently through no fault of their

own " .

Or perhaps one (young or old) just has to have lived through a fateful

life-changing event (caused by another) to understand how karma can

tragically manifest through someone else. I'm reminded of a passage in

scripture that says; " Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord; but woe unto him

through whom my vengeance comes. "

This means (in simple terms) that, although the divine planets hold and

dispense the karma due in this lifetime, the one who delivers that karma

carries the sin of that deed, and his actions will undoubtedly return to

him in due course. If we can get through this life without ever causing

harm (suffering) to another living being we will have come a long way in

paying our own karmic debt.

Yes, it's we ourselves who originally created the karmic debt we carry in

this lifetime, but we're born with no memory of this and can find

ourselves suffering from the actions of others which seems, in this life,

to be the result of no fault of our own...none that we have any conscious

memory of.

///2) Fate is something inescapable. Karma is not an " occurrence " but an

influence. Karma is the influences that will act upon you according to

your past actions. It is entirely up to your free will how you react to

those influences and what you make of them. Depending on how you deal

with your influences, you create good / bad / transcendent karma going

forward.///

I agree that the way we react to the circumstances we find ourselves in

determines the extent of our suffering...detachment from the

circumstances of, or inescapable occurrences (as you put it) in life, is

what all great souls have advocated since time immemorial. But this

doesn't mean that the karma that is due will cease to be or that we can

change it in any way...it simply means that we will be more of an

undisturbed witness to our life rather than a constantly overwhelmed

participant.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

November 13, 2008

Dear Mrs. Wendy,

Firstly you bring up my recent entry into this sphere, to point out

that I am a beginner. Thank you. I will always be a beginner. This is

why I take great pains to gain extreme clarity on fundamental subjects

such as the meaning of " Malefic " and " Benefic " , the definitions of the

12 houses, etc.

Furthermore please note that I have been a devotee of Vedic culture in

total with extreme involvement and enthusiasm since 1988. I have

studied certain topics, such as the nature of karma, with extreme

scrutiny since that time (adopting bramcharya for many years to do so).

Also, please note that my intellectual metabolism rate is at least 3

or 4 times the normal person's. I say that with a touch of humor, but

there is also truth in it.

1. " Benefic " / " Malefic "

You say that I am proposing to " change " Parashara's dictums. No. I am

proposing a change in English terminology. Since Parashara did not

speak English, I do not feel it fair that you make this assertation.

I have failed to convey my thoughts clearly on this matter. I will try

again:

Planets have both an natural, intrinsic personality as well as

temporary " moods " which they acquire due to house ownership,

placement, conjunctions, aspects, etc. A planet's intrinsic

personality can never change, but the temporary mood of the planet is

different from horoscope to horoscope.

It is best if, IN ENGLISH, the terminology used to describe the

intrinsic personality does not blend with the terminology we use to

describe the temporary mood of a planet.

2. " Fate " / " Karma "

You hold the opinion that prarabdha karma is absolutely set in stone

and cannot be altered, except by changing our current behavior to

create new future prarabdha karma. To some extent I agree. We cannot

really control what happens to us, but we can control how we react to

what happens to us.

My opinion is that, ultimately, nothing is impossible.

Some prarabdha karma would require a divine intervention to change,

because it is parama drdha karma. Other prarabdha karma can be altered

with willpower alone, because it is parama adrdha-karma. Most

prarabdha karma is somewhere on a spectrum in between.

IMO, what IS " predestined " is that we must learn certain lessons. We

must undergo certain *experiences* in order to grow towards

enlightenment. The exact situations which will bring us those

experiences and teach us those lessons are bestowed by the planets, as

indicated in the horoscope, in a manner which is subject to

interpretation and open to multiple possibilities and future-branches.

3. Balaji's Hand

What was important for Balaji was the *experience* he underwent as a

result of breaking his hand - and what he resultantly learned from the

experience. If somehow something saved him from breaking his hand, the

same experience would still need to be learned, and would have

manifested in some other form, also related to the 3rd house, etc.

4. " Religion "

You claim that my understanding of Karma is due to my religious

training, and is not in line with the Jyotish understanding of Karma.

You state that your own religion also has different concepts of fate

than Jyotish. However your religion is Christianity, which is non-

Vedic in it's cultural origin. My religion (if we must call it that)

is Vaishnav-Hinduism, which is Vedic in it's origin. Since both my

religion and Jyotish share the same ideological and cultural origin do

are indeed have the same understanding of Karma.

5. The Nature of the Karma indicated in a horoscope

Ketu, for example, in the 12th House, creates an " energy " - the way in

which this energy will manifest is up to you! The lesson that you must

learn from it is " predestined " but NOT the external events which must

teach you the lesson. You can " learn the hard way, " or you can figure

out and pray for a means to learn the same lesson without intense pain

and suffering.

As an isolated and simplified example: A person with Ketu in the 12th

House feels suicidal. An astrologer can tell her to kill herself, or

that she " will kill herself " or that suicide is in her future. I would

hope that I did not get such an astrologer, though! Because an

astrologer can also tell her that if they begin to practice certain

types of meditation or yoga or tantra, the vicious energy of Ketu in

the 12th will pull away from suicide and have a positive outlet. And

the lessons that Ketu is destined to teach her will be learned while

walking on more pleasant and peaceful avenues.

DEAR MRS. WENDY, ABOUT ME....

I did warn you that this would happen. The lord of my 9th House

occupies my 8th. Thus those who take the role of my teacher often

suffer as a result. I myself have Jupiter at the top of the sky, in

the 10th House and thus operate naturally as a teacher more than a

student. In fact I learn by teaching. That Jupiter is the lord of my

12th shows that I estrange many as a result of this. I do apologize

and would like to reiterate my appreciation for the forum you provide

as well as the knowledge and experience you share.

I understand that you have worked very hard to create and maintain

this discussion group. In a very real sense it is your group, and you

are the guru of this group. Since I am a very guru-like figure even in

my method of learning I fear that perhaps I am interfering in your

participation with the group?

I would not at all hold resentment towards you if you feel this is the

case. I will always hold you in high regard and be thankful towards

your encouragement and guidance.

~ Vic DiCara

www.vicdicara.com

www.vedicastrologer.net

On Nov 13, 2008, at 1:51 AM, Wendy Vasicek wrote:

> Dear Vic,

>

> Let me respond. But first I refer to your post (#8463) on May

> 16, 2008 in which you stated that you were a beginner and were hopeful

> that your commencement of JU/ME period would be beneficial for quick

> assimilation of basic facts required for entry level proficiency into

> astrology. Now, just six months later, you write the following...to

> which

> I would like to respond, if I may.

>

> 1. (To Balaji)

> //Yor mention that Sukra " becomes a malefic " . I know that is widely

> accepted language. But I propose a change. I shall stop using the

> terms " functional benefic " or " functional malefic " or any permutation

> like " becoming a malefic " because I feel it is counter-intuitive and

> ruins a clear understanding.//

>

> What you're proposing is counter to Parasara's (Vimsottari)

> principles.

> Are you so confident that you feel you can " change " the dictums set

> forth

> by this great sage? To choose not to mention the functional M/B

> disposition of planets to a client (who may be confused with

> technicalities he knows nothing about) is one thing...to suggest, on a

> Parasara discussion group, that you propose to " make a change " to the

> rules governing Vimsottari is quite another.

>

> 2. (To Balaji)

> //Also, as an astrologer I myself don't believe in " fate " - rather I

> believe in Karma - which is significantly different because " fate " is

> set in stone and outside your control, while Karma is in a constant

> state of change and is 100% due to your own decisions and actions.//

>

> The problem here, which I don't seem to be able to explain to you (no

> matter how hard I try) is that you're half right and half

> wrong...let me

> try just one more time. Prarabdha karma is the karma (destiny/fate) we

> are obliged to go through during this lifetime...this is fact!

> BTW destiny does mean the same thing as fate. As an example; Destiny

> is

> defined as " the inevitable or necessary fate to which a particular

> person

> or thing is destined. "

> At this stage I can only reiterate that Kriyamana is the only thing

> that

> we (might) in any way shape through our own free-will. Even this,

> like a

> dog on a leash, can only be within the parameters allowed by

> prarabdha.

> We can go on infinitum splitting hairs about the meaning of fate/

> destiny,

> but really I think we should, as I suggested previously, just try to

> (amicably if possible) agree to disagree.

>

> 3. (To Balaji)

> //And finally if you think your hand broke from " no fault of your own "

> you must feel terribly maligned by " fate. " In my opinion your hand

> broke (and everything else that ever happened " to " you) in an

> attempt to

> raise your consciousness and help your evolution towards

> enlightenment -

> and in a specific education program tailored by the laws of karma as

> reactions to your previous actions over 1, 10 and 1000s of

> lifetimes.//

>

> You're half right that Balaji's broken hand was a result of past

> actions.

> However this was pre-ordained at the moment of birth...just waiting

> for

> the appropriate dasa/transit to bring this (prarabdha) karma to

> fruition.

>

> 4. (To Me)

> //I may be wrong, but I would be very surprised as I have studied this

> with extreme care under the guidance of Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya Guru

> parampara in the holy Vraja-Dham in India over a period of many

> years.//

>

> Unfortunately your understanding is based on your religious (ISKCON)

> training rather than the principles of jyotish. Many things

> pertaining to

> my religion appear to be contradictory to jyotish; however, after 20

> yrs

> of study/practice, I've come to a much deeper understanding of the

> complimentary subtleties involved. Parasara is the Guru when it

> comes to

> jyotish... My religious faith has it's own dimension which, for me, is

> complimentary to jyotish...rather than contradictory.

>

> 5. (To Me)

> //Are we certain that what the horoscope indicates is entirely set in

> stone? I am more of the opinion that Karma is a swirling abstract

> energy, not a list of deeds inscribed into a tablet. I feel that

> karmic energy can create one outcome or the other depending on how

> it is

> directed - must as electric directed into a radiator creates heat, but

> directed into an air conditioner creates cold.//

>

> Prarabdha is specific...this is why astrologers are able to read the

> horoscope. I'm truly surprised you don't understand this?

>

> 6. (To the Group)

> //If it is as Sri Ramana Maharshi says, and the only will is the

> divine

> will and everything else is predestined - then we must conclude that

> god is biased because he gives some people happiness and others

> distress. If those individuals are not themselves responsible for

> their happiness or suffering, then it is all due to the will of god -

> and such a god is reprehensible for his gives one being pleasure (for

> no reason) and another he gives pain (for no reason). Vedanta cannot

> accept such a flawed conception of Godhead. Therefore Sri Ramana

> Maharshi is incorrect.//

>

> Unfortunately you have totally misunderstood Sri Ramana Maharshi's

> concept. Perhaps we can discuss this further another time.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ___

>

> jyotish-vidya , Vic D <vicdicara wrote:

>

> Hello all!

>

> I just d to this group today. I am a beginner and am

> looking forward to interacting with all of you. My name is either

> " Vic " or " Vraj Kishor " - whatever you like. I spent a lot of time as a

> Bramachary in ISKCON/Hare Krishna where I got good exposure to

> Sanskrit etc. In Rahu-Mercury I ran a school for studying Gita, Isa-

> Upanishad, and Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu of Rupa Goswami based on the

> Sankrit. Then in Rahu-Venus I got married. I have bad marital karma,

> but a great wife who has the ability to bend that karma and keep

> things together and auspicious for us. We're now together with two

> boys. One Scorpio Asc and one Pices Asc. I also spent a decade

> involved in professional punk-rock music (Rahu) in a band called

> " 108 " . This continues to this day.

>

> I work in computers, mainly programming and development of websites

> in PHP, with some sales.

>

> I'm just entering Jupiter-Mercury now, which I hope will be

> beneficial for quick assimilation of basic facts required for entry

> level

> proficiency into astrology.

>

> I'm Cap Asc, with Taurus moon.

>

> Again, looking forward to interacting with all of you.

>

> Yours,

> V

>

> ---

>

November 13, 2008

Dear Vic,

///Furthermore please note that I have been a devotee of Vedic culture in

total with extreme involvement and enthusiasm since 1988. I have

studied certain topics, such as the nature of karma, with extreme

scrutiny since that time (adopting bramcharya for many years to do

so).///

Except for adopting the vow of brahmacarya I too have been deeply

immersed in the Vedas since being initiated by my Guru (MMY) in April

1974/5? So if we're going to go down this path, I'd have to say that I

have been immersed in the study of the Vedas longer than you by around

thirteen years.

My study of jyotish began in 1988...after first receiving certification

in Western astrology (which I abandoned immediately when I had my first

jyotish reading from an elderly Pundit with 50 plus years of experience.

It was he who gave me my first lessons in jyotish)

But, can't you see how ridiculous this is becoming? I'm more Vedic than

you, I have more knowledge than you etc, etc.. A little childish don't

you think?

///You claim that my understanding of Karma is due to my religious

training, and is not in line with the Jyotish understanding of Karma.

You state that your own religion also has different concepts of fate

than Jyotish. However your religion is Christianity, which is non-

Vedic in it's cultural origin. My religion (if we must call it that)

is Vaishnav-Hinduism, which is Vedic in it's origin. Since both my

religion and Jyotish share the same ideological and cultural origin do

are indeed have the same understanding of Karma.///

If you were to take the time to actually examine the chart you would

understand (perhaps) the significance of exalted 9th lord (in

9th)...signifying a deep intellectual understanding of all religions. You

might also fathom the depth of this understanding in relation to jyotish

(one of the six disciplines of Vedanga) defined as the " eye of the Veda. "

Vic, I have no wish to discourage you in any way, you've come along in

leaps and bounds in such a short time. And I do stand by what I said in

the beginning about exalted Moon in 5th indicating your ability to

connect to and advise others in a meaningful way. However my role here is

to uphold the principles of Parasara for the benefit of the silent

majority who may still be struggling to understand the basic principles

of vimsottari.

I would be remiss if I didn't speak out against some of the ideas put

forward here recently.

I understand, more than you realise, the source of the conflict between

us in regards to certain basic principles. When we consider the position

of your Mercury in 8th (12th from my Mercury) the significance of your

own words become starkly apparent...

///I did warn you that this would happen. The lord of my 9th House

occupies my 8th. Thus those who take the role of my teacher often

suffer as a result.///

Dear Balaji, God bless his heart, has doggedly and unashamedly insisted

that I am his jyotish Guru (in spite of my many objections to this over

the years).

This again is apparent in his chart with Mercury conj Venus in 9th.

So we can see clearly our own individual (yet closely connected)

karma/destiny/fate playing out in all our charts :-)

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" Vic D " <vicdicara

<jyotish-vidya >

Friday, November 14, 2008 2:46 AM

Re: Karma and Destiny