Linda - sarah palin

September 21, 2008

Dear Su,

I am glad to see your post, as I too could not see anything wrong in Linda's reply. In fact, it was a very calm and reasonable difference of opinion, whereas some get very worked up on the Astro lists!

Usually, I don't get involved in a moderator's decision, and keep quiet - but your defence prompted me to write too, so thanks.

Best - Sat.

========

- vreality_au

jyotish-vidya

Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:44 AM

Re: Linda - sarah palin

If you dont mind my saying so Uttaraji, that seems a bit harsh. I dont think Linda was being rude or abusive in anyway, needing moderation. Besides if members have to be cautious of every word or sentence used, I fear that less would be inclined to post/participate. rgds, Sujyotish-vidya , Uttara <muttaraphalguni wrote:>> Linda,> > This discussion has now come to an end. My patience has worn thinned. You have been kindly advised. Unfortunately, you have missed the point of the integrity and respectful health of the intent of Jyotish-Vidya and its professional delineation required. Your continual injection of personal subjective and political conjecture has now caused any further post of yours to be moderated.> > Uttara > > > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter> jyotish-vidya > Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:09:34 PM> Re: Linda - sarah palin> > > Uttara,> > Yes, I had/have choices here as do we all. > Without her coming to us for a personal reading we only have events as we know > them as well as her personal choices and commitments as we know them upon which > to base our opinions. My whole point was that I do not believe a Libra > rising and the fourth house in that rising could have led her to some of the > decisions she has made. It is Ms Palin who made her family and > religion the core of her political stands and public knowledge. As > astrologers we need to be able to look at planetary positions in reference to > what we know about the person. Ms Palin is known for extreme Christian > views and the ninth house of the Libra rising chart in my opinion does > not explain her views. Her situation and attitude towards her > children fits with the conjunction of the Cancer rising chart....do not know if > you have ever parented a teen age girl or grew up in an extreme home and perhaps > do not see how tough she was on her daughter but it also fits that someone > with a Saturn/Mars conjunction would also expose a five month old baby to the > extreme noise of the closing of the Republican convention (ask any doctor > about noise volume for young ears) and choose hunting (again 5th > Mars/Saturn) as a sport. It is our job to be able to see how a person > reacts to their planetary patterns. Of course, there are many people who would > use the Mars/Saturn in another way...perhaps to become a master builder or > superior sports person....those were not Palin's choices but the planets have to > support in some way the choices the person has made. We have to be honest > about what we know and there are many who have stated what I stated and that has > to show up in the chart.....I simply took my position as regarding the Libra vs > Cancer rising and worked off of what is known about this woman. In the > case of Obama there are many who feel he is audacious and whether one agrees or > not it must be taken into consideration when looking a someone's chart because > it is a quality that is known about him. Just because everyone does not > use the Mars/Saturn conjunction as Palin does or the Jupiter/Saturn > conjunction as Obama does it does not nullify how they have chosen to use their > planetary energy. A chart that has a "subject" becomes by its very nature > a "subjective" topic. Without the "subjective" nature of these charts they > would not represent these two individuals but a generic interpretation of any of > the thousands of people who may share the charts.> > Linda> > > "Life and living is a flow, and if we accept that > flow and get into that flow, life can be tremendously simple." Ramesh S. > Balsehar> - > Uttara > jyotish-vidya > Saturday, September 20, 2008 3:04 PM> Linda - sarah palin> > Linda,> > I disagree. There are many excellent astrologers who delineation a chart without subjective remarks. Nor is it a question of being politically correct. It is a matter of your analyzing this chart on a subjective disdain. ie: "....her willingness to humiliate her daughter.... " or "...her blind belief in her religion". The operative words here are humiliate and blind.> > There are many people who have Sat/Mars conjunction who do not humiliate their daughter or anyone else. So, too, There are many who have Ju/Ve in Pisces who do not have a blind believe in their religion. And yes, there are many who have a debilitated conjunction of Ju/Sasa Yoga Saturn in Capricorn who do not have a false sense of their abilities.> > There are many karakas for a planet and where it sits in a house and sign. It is the inexperienced astrologer who takes the position of narrow mindedness or prejudice into their analysis and predictions. Yes, it is very helpful to have an insight into the person's personality and life experiences to help confirm a planet/house position but it is not the bases of judgment. Jyotish teaches to look at the working material of the chart first and then access the karakas based on the client's input or behavior for confirmation. It should always be done with objectivity and open mindedness. Who are we to suppose from someone we do not know that they are purposely fooling us in their demeanor or "leads one to believe that these views are who she is and how she lives her life".> > One could argue that this is the Ascendant's mask. But that doesn't necessarily mean that deception is underneath, unless there are facts to support that position. Humiliate and Blind Faith in ones religion - as the examples noted above, to name just a few - are not based on fact. It is a personal judgment or prejudice attack against another's person. Think about it for a moment, one could argue that having her daughter on stage with the rest of the family showed something positive or in the way the family is committed to accepting responsibility for ones actions. The same is true with religion, ones blind faith could be another's creative outlet in serving others as an empathetic community priest. It is also not just to label a judgment on Obama as having the "audacity" to run for office with little experience. Again, the operative word here is audacity. He has the right and freedom as an American citizen to run for office. > Whether one likes him or not or feels he is qualified. > > It is only when a client asks for help in a certain area and privately consults with the astrologer/counselo r that both negative and positives in thought and action and Karma, are delved into for that client's rectifying the chart's attributes for a more comfortable future. And, again it is then up to the client how they want to use this information. There are many choices. We as human beings are not clones, we are all individuals. It is the astrologer's responsibility to be objectively professional as much as a medical doctor who interacts with his patients. X-rays and Labs and medical books are the working tools of his medical knowledge and earned experience and schooling. Then, and only then, looking at a patient and seeing how they factually act or respond fills in the gaps for a proper diagnosis for that individual's welfare and longevity. > > Therefore, it is not "impossible" to delineate a chart with objectivity even if there isn't an accurate birth time. It is done all the time. Astrologer Kevin Kevill comes to mind. He recently wrote an excellent piece on Gov. Sarah Palin's chart, as just one of many who have. One is not required to believe or agree with his hypothesis or assessments or anyone else's, but they are to be respected for their sincere effort in putting forth a professional objective analysis without an accurate birth time. > > > You have a choice here, Linda> > Uttara> > > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter@ verizon.net>> jyotish-vidya> Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:19:11 AM> Re: sarah palin> > > Uttara,> > In looking at this chart it is impossible to not take into account her religious or family views as she has been very public about them and she leads one to believe that these views are who she is and how she lives her life. Therefore those views become a cornerstone to trying to assess the planets according to those planets that represent her life's views and choices. I am not judging Ms Palin but simply stating how her own views and choices are reflective of her planetary placements. How is one to be honest about a chart if we look only at the "politically correct" attributes of playing basketball as a child? A choice such as she made regarding her daughter is reflective of a Saturn/Mars conjunction just as what can be seen as the "audicity" of Obama's belief that he was ready to run a nation after a few short years in the senate is indicated by the debilitated Jupiter conjunct the Sasa Yoga Saturn in his Capricorn first house. > Personally, I do not care what Ms Palin decides for her child or her religious beliefs just as I do not care if Obama has an inflated ego but as astrologers we must be able to look at these personal qualities in order to understand a chart. Looking at these qualities through an interpretation of the charts is different than taking a political stand.> > Sincerely,> Linda> > > > "Life and living is a flow, and if we accept that flow and get into that flow, life can be tremendously simple." Ramesh S. Balsehar> - > Uttara > jyotish-vidya > Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:11 AM> Re: sarah palin> > Linda,> Although you make some very good points, your post is laced with personal judgments against another person's, person. As you yourself have questioned in the past:> > > "......8/27/ 08> Is there any reason why a group focused on an objective view of the planetary dance is an appropriate forum for political viewpoints?. ....."> > and have acknowledged:> > > 8/29/08> "......Thanks, Mrs. Wendy...there is so much to look at through the eyes of Jyotish in this election and for better or worse American politics have really gotten ugly...we can all go to the blogs if we want to vent or feel angry......"> > Political viewpoints as well as political personal judgements are not solicited nor condone on Jyotish-Vidya.> > //...her willingness to humiliate her daughter the way she has...//> //...would think that her religious views would be more intelligent and forward looking...// > //...while she is certainly aggressive in her speech she does appear to have an ability to use guile...////> //...I would think she would not be as attractive ...//> //...Pisces which is considered the sign of Christianity and while not exactly enlightened she obviously gets satisfaction from her Christianity ...//> //...the shadowy Pisces could explain her blind belief in her religion...//> > Lets keep our focus on Jyotish as Mrs Wendy has requested recently. It also underscores the intention of this study group.> > If political viewpoints and/or personal political judgements can't be be kept out of the discussion then > the charts or supposed charts of political candidates running for office should not be studied at all. > > Let us also remember that a chart provides the astrologer with working material - not the basis for judging a person - as Eric Frances says so well.> > Uttara> > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter@ verizon.net>> > jyotish-vidya> Friday, September 19, 2008 12:06:20 PM> Re: sarah palin> > > Hi Ron,> > Without confirmation of the birth time we are often left w/out the concrete proof we would like.> > While I can see the Libra rising I would think that having three planets in the 4th house of home doesn't quite explain her public ambition nor her willingness to humiliate her daughter the way she has. Also, with Gemini ruling the night house which contains Rahu I would think that her religious views would be more intelligent and forward looking. The second house is ruled by Mars and while she is certainly aggressive in her speech she does appear to have an ability to use guile and charm plus with the Saturn/Mars conjunction I would think she would not be as attractive as she it....also Jupiter is placed in the sixth house and even though it is in it's own sign I'm not sure that Jupiter as dasa ruler would bring her the fame she has now.> > The 16:30 birth time gives her a Cancer rising and her body type looks Cancerian to me and her mode of expression and face/hair (2nd house) appear Leo-like. Her dasa system gives brings to life the positive Jupiter/Venus conjunction coming from the fortunate 9th house....while transit Rahu is now on the seventh house....her sudden rise fits easily into this sequence. The ruler of the 5th is in the 8th---she has a disabled child as well as the teen daughter being pregnant---Rahu just left the eight house by transit---she appears to have experienced some problems from transit Rahu on Mars....finally, Venus/Jupiter in the ninth in the sign of Pisces which is considered the sign of Christianity and while not exactly enlightened she obviously gets satisfaction from her Christianity and never had the need to look into other philosophies. ..such a conjunction in the shadowy Pisces could explain her blind belief in her religion.> > Anyway, just some thoughts on her chart.> > Namaste,> Linda> > > "Life and living is a flow, and if we accept that flow and get into that flow, life can be tremendously simple." Ramesh S. Balsehar>

September 21, 2008

Dear Su,Thanks for your opinion.It is not my intention for members to be cautious of every word or sentenced used when posting.In fact, I encourage autonomy as all members do. How else are we to learn from each other when studying jyotish principals and techniques. Questions and statements on jyotish's meaning and placement in a chart and even disagreements within the focus of the group's purpose is all encouraged and tolerated on my part. Jyotish also has several areas of contention that at times make for very good study and contemplation. To agree to disagree is a very amicable way when eye to eye is not met.I did not moderate Linda because I wanted to punish her. I hope my several exchange of posts with Linda reflect that. We all have

subjective judgments based on the experiences of our own lives and political meanings. Mrs. Wendy's point is well taken and I agree. My point was to keep or steer the exchange as students studying on Jyotish-Vidya's group's intent, with as much objectivity as possible while using Jyotish principals.If i am felt to be too harsh then my apologies to all members. Jyotish-Vidya is a rare group of integrity in its pursuit of Jyotish study. It is also a Jyotish family of genuine friendships and caring. I can't think of another group who could hold a candle to Jyotish-Vidya.Thanks again Su,Uttara vreality_au <reality_vjyotish-vidya Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:44:30 AM Re: Linda - sarah palin If you dont mind my saying so Uttaraji, that seems a bit harsh. I dont think Linda was being rude or abusive in anyway, needing moderation. Besides if members have to be cautious of every word or sentence used, I fear that less would be inclined to post/participate. rgds, Su jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni@ ...> wrote: > > Linda, > > This discussion has now come to an end. My patience has worn thinned. You have been kindly advised. Unfortunately, you have missed the point of the integrity and respectful health of the intent of Jyotish-Vidya and its professional delineation required. Your continual injection of personal subjective and political conjecture has now caused any further post of yours to be moderated. > > Uttara > > > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter@ ...> > jyotish-vidya > Saturday, September 20,

2008 4:09:34 PM > Re: Linda - sarah palin > > > Uttara, > > Yes, I had/have choices here as do we all. > Without her coming to us for a personal reading we only have events as we know > them as well as her personal choices and commitments as we know them upon which > to base our opinions. My whole point was that I do not believe a Libra > rising and the fourth house in that rising could have led her to some of the > decisions she has made. It is Ms Palin who made her family and > religion the core of her political stands and public knowledge. As > astrologers we need to be able to look at planetary positions in reference to > what we know about the person. Ms Palin is known for extreme Christian > views and the ninth house of the Libra rising chart in my opinion does

> not explain her views. Her situation and attitude towards her > children fits with the conjunction of the Cancer rising chart....do not know if > you have ever parented a teen age girl or grew up in an extreme home and perhaps > do not see how tough she was on her daughter but it also fits that someone > with a Saturn/Mars conjunction would also expose a five month old baby to the > extreme noise of the closing of the Republican convention (ask any doctor > about noise volume for young ears) and choose hunting (again 5th > Mars/Saturn) as a sport. It is our job to be able to see how a person > reacts to their planetary patterns. Of course, there are many people who would > use the Mars/Saturn in another way...perhaps to become a master builder or > superior sports person....those were not Palin's choices but the planets

have to > support in some way the choices the person has made. We have to be honest > about what we know and there are many who have stated what I stated and that has > to show up in the chart.....I simply took my position as regarding the Libra vs > Cancer rising and worked off of what is known about this woman. In the > case of Obama there are many who feel he is audacious and whether one agrees or > not it must be taken into consideration when looking a someone's chart because > it is a quality that is known about him. Just because everyone does not > use the Mars/Saturn conjunction as Palin does or the Jupiter/Saturn > conjunction as Obama does it does not nullify how they have chosen to use their > planetary energy. A chart that has a "subject" becomes by its very nature > a "subjective" topic. Without the

"subjective" nature of these charts they > would not represent these two individuals but a generic interpretation of any of > the thousands of people who may share the charts. > > Linda > > > "Life and living is a flow, and if we accept that > flow and get into that flow, life can be tremendously simple." Ramesh S. > Balsehar > - > Uttara > jyotish-vidya > Saturday, September 20, 2008 3:04 PM > Linda - sarah palin > > Linda, > > I disagree. There are many excellent astrologers who delineation a chart without subjective remarks. Nor is it a question of being politically correct. It is a matter of your analyzing this chart on a subjective disdain. ie: "....her willingness to humiliate her daughter.... " or "...her blind belief in her religion". The operative words here are humiliate and blind. > > There are many people who have Sat/Mars conjunction who do not humiliate their daughter or anyone else. So, too, There are many who have Ju/Ve in Pisces who do not have a blind believe in their religion. And yes, there are many who have a debilitated conjunction of Ju/Sasa Yoga Saturn in Capricorn who do not have a false sense of their abilities. > > There are many karakas for a planet and where it sits in a house and sign. It is the inexperienced astrologer who takes the position of narrow mindedness or prejudice into their analysis and predictions. Yes, it is very helpful to have an insight into the person's personality and life experiences to help confirm a planet/house position but it is not the bases of judgment. Jyotish

teaches to look at the working material of the chart first and then access the karakas based on the client's input or behavior for confirmation. It should always be done with objectivity and open mindedness. Who are we to suppose from someone we do not know that they are purposely fooling us in their demeanor or "leads one to believe that these views are who she is and how she lives her life". > > One could argue that this is the Ascendant's mask. But that doesn't necessarily mean that deception is underneath, unless there are facts to support that position. Humiliate and Blind Faith in ones religion - as the examples noted above, to name just a few - are not based on fact. It is a personal judgment or prejudice attack against another's person. Think about it for a moment, one could argue that having her daughter on stage with the rest of the family showed

something positive or in the way the family is committed to accepting responsibility for ones actions. The same is true with religion, ones blind faith could be another's creative outlet in serving others as an empathetic community priest. It is also not just to label a judgment on Obama as having the "audacity" to run for office with little experience. Again, the operative word here is audacity. He has the right and freedom as an American citizen to run for office. > Whether one likes him or not or feels he is qualified. > > It is only when a client asks for help in a certain area and privately consults with the astrologer/counselo r that both negative and positives in thought and action and Karma, are delved into for that client's rectifying the chart's attributes for a more comfortable future. And, again it is then up to the client how they want to

use this information. There are many choices. We as human beings are not clones, we are all individuals. It is the astrologer's responsibility to be objectively professional as much as a medical doctor who interacts with his patients. X-rays and Labs and medical books are the working tools of his medical knowledge and earned experience and schooling. Then, and only then, looking at a patient and seeing how they factually act or respond fills in the gaps for a proper diagnosis for that individual's welfare and longevity. > > Therefore, it is not "impossible" to delineate a chart with objectivity even if there isn't an accurate birth time. It is done all the time. Astrologer Kevin Kevill comes to mind. He recently wrote an excellent piece on Gov. Sarah Palin's chart, as just one of many who have. One is not required to believe or agree with his

hypothesis or assessments or anyone else's, but they are to be respected for their sincere effort in putting forth a professional objective analysis without an accurate birth time. > > > You have a choice here, Linda > > Uttara > > > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter@ verizon.net> > jyotish-vidya > Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:19:11 AM > Re: sarah palin > > > Uttara, > > In looking at this chart it is impossible to not take into account her religious or family views as she has been very public about them and she leads one to believe that these views are who she is and how she lives her life. Therefore those views become a cornerstone to trying to assess the planets according

to those planets that represent her life's views and choices. I am not judging Ms Palin but simply stating how her own views and choices are reflective of her planetary placements. How is one to be honest about a chart if we look only at the "politically correct" attributes of playing basketball as a child? A choice such as she made regarding her daughter is reflective of a Saturn/Mars conjunction just as what can be seen as the "audicity" of Obama's belief that he was ready to run a nation after a few short years in the senate is indicated by the debilitated Jupiter conjunct the Sasa Yoga Saturn in his Capricorn first house. > Personally, I do not care what Ms Palin decides for her child or her religious beliefs just as I do not care if Obama has an inflated ego but as astrologers we must be able to look at these personal qualities in order to understand a chart. Looking at these qualities through an interpretation of the charts is different than taking a political stand. > > Sincerely, > Linda > > > > "Life and living is a flow, and if we accept that flow and get into that flow, life can be tremendously simple." Ramesh S. Balsehar > - > Uttara > jyotish-vidya > Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:11 AM > Re: sarah palin > > Linda, > Although you make some very good points, your post is laced with personal judgments against another person's, person. As you yourself have questioned in the past: > > > "......8/27/ 08 > Is there any reason why a group focused on an objective view of the planetary dance is an appropriate forum for political

viewpoints?. ....." > > and have acknowledged: > > > 8/29/08 > "......Thanks, Mrs. Wendy...there is so much to look at through the eyes of Jyotish in this election and for better or worse American politics have really gotten ugly...we can all go to the blogs if we want to vent or feel angry......" > > Political viewpoints as well as political personal judgements are not solicited nor condone on Jyotish-Vidya. > > //...her willingness to humiliate her daughter the way she has...// > //...would think that her religious views would be more intelligent and forward looking...// > //...while she is certainly aggressive in her speech she does appear to have an ability to use guile...//// > //...I would think she would not be as attractive ...// > //...Pisces which is considered the sign of Christianity and while

not exactly enlightened she obviously gets satisfaction from her Christianity ...// > //...the shadowy Pisces could explain her blind belief in her religion.../ / > > Lets keep our focus on Jyotish as Mrs Wendy has requested recently. It also underscores the intention of this study group. > > If political viewpoints and/or personal political judgements can't be be kept out of the discussion then > the charts or supposed charts of political candidates running for office should not be studied at all. > > Let us also remember that a chart provides the astrologer with working material - not the basis for judging a person - as Eric Frances says so well. > > Uttara > > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter@ verizon.net> > > jyotish-vidya@

. com > Friday, September 19, 2008 12:06:20 PM > Re: sarah palin > > > Hi Ron, > > Without confirmation of the birth time we are often left w/out the concrete proof we would like. > > While I can see the Libra rising I would think that having three planets in the 4th house of home doesn't quite explain her public ambition nor her willingness to humiliate her daughter the way she has. Also, with Gemini ruling the night house which contains Rahu I would think that her religious views would be more intelligent and forward looking. The second house is ruled by Mars and while she is certainly aggressive in her speech she does appear to have an ability to use guile and charm plus with the Saturn/Mars conjunction I would think she would not be as attractive as she it....also Jupiter is

placed in the sixth house and even though it is in it's own sign I'm not sure that Jupiter as dasa ruler would bring her the fame she has now. > > The 16:30 birth time gives her a Cancer rising and her body type looks Cancerian to me and her mode of expression and face/hair (2nd house) appear Leo-like. Her dasa system gives brings to life the positive Jupiter/Venus conjunction coming from the fortunate 9th house....while transit Rahu is now on the seventh house....her sudden rise fits easily into this sequence. The ruler of the 5th is in the 8th---she has a disabled child as well as the teen daughter being pregnant---Rahu just left the eight house by transit---she appears to have experienced some problems from transit Rahu on Mars....finally, Venus/Jupiter in the ninth in the sign of Pisces which is considered the sign of Christianity and while not exactly

enlightened she obviously gets satisfaction from her Christianity and never had the need to look into other philosophies. ..such a conjunction in the shadowy Pisces could explain her blind belief in her religion. > > Anyway, just some thoughts on her chart. > > Namaste, > Linda > > > "Life and living is a flow, and if we accept that flow and get into that flow, life can be tremendously simple." Ramesh S. Balsehar >

September 21, 2008

The group need to be oriented towrds proffessional dilineation and less of personal observations.

I think the kind emerging this time in election and the transit has lot of impact in all kind of observations.

uttaraji,has only given her thought as suggestive manner

vrkrishnan--- On Sun, 9/21/08, vreality_au <reality_v wrote:

vreality_au <reality_v Re: Linda - sarah palinjyotish-vidya Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 8:11 AM

Dear Sat,Thank you for your appreciation of my "opinion". I rarely get involved in such matters as well, but it seemed that autocracy was creeping in whilst at the same time purporting autonomy. But Uttaraji has kindly made attempts to clarify the issue, lets end this thread here. rgds, Sujyotish-vidya, "Sateesh Batas" <makara wrote:>> > Dear Su,> > I am glad to see your post, as I too could not see anything wrong in Linda's reply. In fact, it was a very calm and reasonable difference of opinion, whereas some get very worked up on the Astro lists!> > Usually, I don't get involved in a moderator's decision, and keep quiet - but your defence prompted me to write too, so thanks.> > Best - Sat.> >

========> > - > vreality_au > jyotish-vidya > Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:44 AM> Re: Linda - sarah palin> > > If you dont mind my saying so Uttaraji, that seems a bit harsh. I > dont think Linda was being rude or abusive in anyway, needing > moderation. Besides if members have to be cautious of every word or > sentence used, I fear that less would be inclined to > post/participate. > > rgds, Su> > jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni@ > > wrote:> >> > Linda,> > > > This discussion has now come to an end. My patience

has worn > thinned. You have been kindly advised. Unfortunately, you have > missed the point of the integrity and respectful health of the intent > of Jyotish-Vidya and its professional delineation required. Your > continual injection of personal subjective and political conjecture > has now caused any further post of yours to be moderated.> > > > Uttara > > > > > > > > > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter@ >> > jyotish-vidya> > Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:09:34 PM> > Re: Linda - sarah palin> > > > > > Uttara,> > > > Yes, I had/have choices here as do we all. > > Without her

coming to us for a personal reading we only have events > as we know > > them as well as her personal choices and commitments as we know > them upon which > > to base our opinions. My whole point was that I do not believe a > Libra > > rising and the fourth house in that rising could have led her to > some of the > > decisions she has made. It is Ms Palin who made her family and > > religion the core of her political stands and public knowledge. As > > astrologers we need to be able to look at planetary positions in > reference to > > what we know about the person. Ms Palin is known for extreme > Christian > > views and the ninth house of the Libra rising chart in my opinion > does > > not explain her views. Her situation and attitude towards her > > children fits with the conjunction of the Cancer

rising chart....do > not know if > > you have ever parented a teen age girl or grew up in an extreme > home and perhaps > > do not see how tough she was on her daughter but it also fits that > someone > > with a Saturn/Mars conjunction would also expose a five month old > baby to the > > extreme noise of the closing of the Republican convention (ask any > doctor > > about noise volume for young ears) and choose hunting (again 5th > > Mars/Saturn) as a sport. It is our job to be able to see how a > person > > reacts to their planetary patterns. Of course, there are many > people who would > > use the Mars/Saturn in another way...perhaps to become a master > builder or > > superior sports person....those were not Palin's choices but the > planets have to > > support in some way the

choices the person has made. We have to be > honest > > about what we know and there are many who have stated what I stated > and that has > > to show up in the chart.....I simply took my position as regarding > the Libra vs > > Cancer rising and worked off of what is known about this woman. In > the > > case of Obama there are many who feel he is audacious and whether > one agrees or > > not it must be taken into consideration when looking a someone's > chart because > > it is a quality that is known about him. Just because everyone > does not > > use the Mars/Saturn conjunction as Palin does or the Jupiter/Saturn > > conjunction as Obama does it does not nullify how they have chosen > to use their > > planetary energy. A chart that has a "subject" becomes by its very >

nature > > a "subjective" topic. Without the "subjective" nature of these > charts they > > would not represent these two individuals but a generic > interpretation of any of > > the thousands of people who may share the charts.> > > > Linda> > > > > > "Life and living is a flow, and if we accept that > > flow and get into that flow, life can be tremendously simple." > Ramesh S. > > Balsehar> > - > > Uttara > > jyotish-vidya > > Saturday, September 20, 2008 3:04 PM> > Linda - sarah palin> > > > Linda,> > > > I disagree. There are many excellent astrologers who delineation > a chart without subjective remarks. Nor is it a question of being >

politically correct. It is a matter of your analyzing this chart > on a subjective disdain. ie: "....her willingness to humiliate her > daughter.... " or "...her blind belief in her religion". The > operative words here are humiliate and blind.> > > > There are many people who have Sat/Mars conjunction who do not > humiliate their daughter or anyone else. So, too, There are many > who have Ju/Ve in Pisces who do not have a blind believe in their > religion. And yes, there are many who have a debilitated > conjunction of Ju/Sasa Yoga Saturn in Capricorn who do not have a > false sense of their abilities.> > > > There are many karakas for a planet and where it sits in a house > and sign. It is the inexperienced astrologer who takes the position > of narrow mindedness or prejudice into their analysis and > predictions. Yes, it is very

helpful to have an insight into the > person's personality and life experiences to help confirm a > planet/house position but it is not the bases of judgment. Jyotish > teaches to look at the working material of the chart first and then > access the karakas based on the client's input or behavior for > confirmation. It should always be done with objectivity and open > mindedness. Who are we to suppose from someone we do not know that > they are purposely fooling us in their demeanor or "leads one to > believe that these views are who she is and how she lives her life".> > > > One could argue that this is the Ascendant's mask. But that > doesn't necessarily mean that deception is underneath, unless there > are facts to support that position. Humiliate and Blind Faith in > ones religion - as the examples noted above, to name just a few - > are not based

on fact. It is a personal judgment or prejudice > attack against another's person. Think about it for a moment, one > could argue that having her daughter on stage with the rest of the > family showed something positive or in the way the family is > committed to accepting responsibility for ones actions. The same > is true with religion, ones blind faith could be another's creative > outlet in serving others as an empathetic community priest. It is > also not just to label a judgment on Obama as having the "audacity" > to run for office with little experience. Again, the operative word > here is audacity. He has the right and freedom as an American > citizen to run for office. > > Whether one likes him or not or feels he is qualified. > > > > It is only when a client asks for help in a certain area and > privately consults with the

astrologer/counselo r that both negative > and positives in thought and action and Karma, are delved into for > that client's rectifying the chart's attributes for a more > comfortable future. And, again it is then up to the client how they > want to use this information. There are many choices. We as human > beings are not clones, we are all individuals. It is the > astrologer's responsibility to be objectively professional as much > as a medical doctor who interacts with his patients. X-rays and > Labs and medical books are the working tools of his medical > knowledge and earned experience and schooling. Then, and only then, > looking at a patient and seeing how they factually act or respond > fills in the gaps for a proper diagnosis for that individual's > welfare and longevity. > > > > Therefore, it is not "impossible" to delineate a chart

with > objectivity even if there isn't an accurate birth time. It is done > all the time. Astrologer Kevin Kevill comes to mind. He recently > wrote an excellent piece on Gov. Sarah Palin's chart, as just one of > many who have. One is not required to believe or agree with his > hypothesis or assessments or anyone else's, but they are to be > respected for their sincere effort in putting forth a professional > objective analysis without an accurate birth time. > > > > > > You have a choice here, Linda> > > > Uttara> > > > > > > > > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter@ verizon.net>> > jyotish-vidya> > Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:19:11 AM> > Re: sarah palin> >

> > > > Uttara,> > > > In looking at this chart it is impossible to not take into account > her religious or family views as she has been very public about them > and she leads one to believe that these views are who she is and how > she lives her life. Therefore those views become a cornerstone to > trying to assess the planets according to those planets that > represent her life's views and choices. I am not judging Ms Palin > but simply stating how her own views and choices are reflective of > her planetary placements. How is one to be honest about a chart if > we look only at the "politically correct" attributes of playing > basketball as a child? A choice such as she made regarding her > daughter is reflective of a Saturn/Mars conjunction just as what can > be seen as the "audicity" of Obama's belief that he was ready

to run > a nation after a few short years in the senate is indicated by the > debilitated Jupiter conjunct the Sasa Yoga Saturn in his Capricorn > first house. > > Personally, I do not care what Ms Palin decides for her child or > her religious beliefs just as I do not care if Obama has an inflated > ego but as astrologers we must be able to look at these personal > qualities in order to understand a chart. Looking at these > qualities through an interpretation of the charts is different than > taking a political stand.> > > > Sincerely,> > Linda> > > > > > > > "Life and living is a flow, and if we accept that flow and get > into that flow, life can be tremendously simple." Ramesh S. Balsehar> > - > > Uttara > > jyotish-vidya@ .

com > > Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:11 AM> > Re: sarah palin> > > > Linda,> > Although you make some very good points, your post is laced with > personal judgments against another person's, person. As you > yourself have questioned in the past:> > > > > > "......8/27/ 08> > Is there any reason why a group focused on an objective view of > the planetary dance is an appropriate forum for political > viewpoints?. ....."> > > > and have acknowledged:> > > > > > 8/29/08> > "......Thanks, Mrs. Wendy...there is so much to look at through > the eyes of Jyotish in this election and for better or worse > American politics have really gotten ugly...we can all go to the > blogs if we want to vent or feel angry......"> >

> > Political viewpoints as well as political personal judgements are > not solicited nor condone on Jyotish-Vidya.> > > > //...her willingness to humiliate her daughter the way she has...//> > //...would think that her religious views would be more > intelligent and forward looking...// > > //...while she is certainly aggressive in her speech she does > appear to have an ability to use guile...////> > //...I would think she would not be as attractive ...//> > //...Pisces which is considered the sign of Christianity and while > not exactly enlightened she obviously gets satisfaction from her > Christianity ...//> > //...the shadowy Pisces could explain her blind belief in her > religion.../ /> > > > Lets keep our focus on Jyotish as Mrs Wendy has requested > recently. It also underscores the

intention of this study group.> > > > If political viewpoints and/or personal political judgements can't > be be kept out of the discussion then > > the charts or supposed charts of political candidates running for > office should not be studied at all. > > > > Let us also remember that a chart provides the astrologer with > working material - not the basis for judging a person - as Eric > Frances says so well.> > > > Uttara> > > > > > > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter@ verizon.net>> > > > jyotish-vidya> > Friday, September 19, 2008 12:06:20 PM> > Re: sarah palin> > > > > > Hi Ron,> > > > Without confirmation of the birth

time we are often left w/out the > concrete proof we would like.> > > > While I can see the Libra rising I would think that having three > planets in the 4th house of home doesn't quite explain her public > ambition nor her willingness to humiliate her daughter the way she > has. Also, with Gemini ruling the night house which contains Rahu I > would think that her religious views would be more intelligent and > forward looking. The second house is ruled by Mars and while she is > certainly aggressive in her speech she does appear to have an > ability to use guile and charm plus with the Saturn/Mars conjunction > I would think she would not be as attractive as she it....also > Jupiter is placed in the sixth house and even though it is in it's > own sign I'm not sure that Jupiter as dasa ruler would bring her the > fame she has now.>

> > > The 16:30 birth time gives her a Cancer rising and her body type > looks Cancerian to me and her mode of expression and face/hair (2nd > house) appear Leo-like. Her dasa system gives brings to life the > positive Jupiter/Venus conjunction coming from the fortunate 9th > house....while transit Rahu is now on the seventh house....her > sudden rise fits easily into this sequence. The ruler of the 5th is > in the 8th---she has a disabled child as well as the teen daughter > being pregnant---Rahu just left the eight house by transit---she > appears to have experienced some problems from transit Rahu on > Mars....finally, Venus/Jupiter in the ninth in the sign of Pisces > which is considered the sign of Christianity and while not exactly > enlightened she obviously gets satisfaction from her Christianity > and never had the need to look into other

philosophies. ..such a > conjunction in the shadowy Pisces could explain her blind belief in > her religion.> > > > Anyway, just some thoughts on her chart.> > > > Namaste,> > Linda> > > > > > "Life and living is a flow, and if we accept that flow and get > into that flow, life can be tremendously simple." Ramesh S. Balsehar> >>

September 21, 2008

Thank You Vattem "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you...As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." from A Return To Love: by Marianne Williamson

vattem krishnan <bursar_99jyotish-vidya Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:46:23 AMRe: Re: Linda - sarah palin

The group need to be oriented towrds proffessional dilineation and less of personal observations.

I think the kind emerging this time in election and the transit has lot of impact in all kind of observations.

uttaraji,has only given her thought as suggestive manner

vrkrishnan--- On Sun, 9/21/08, vreality_au <reality_v (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

vreality_au <reality_v (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Re: Linda - sarah palinjyotish-vidyaSunday, September 21, 2008, 8:11 AM

Dear Sat,Thank you for your appreciation of my "opinion". I rarely get involved in such matters as well, but it seemed that autocracy was creeping in whilst at the same time purporting autonomy. But Uttaraji has kindly made attempts to clarify the issue, lets end this thread here. rgds, Sujyotish-vidya, "Sateesh Batas" <makara wrote:>> > Dear Su,> > I am glad to see your post, as I too could not see anything wrong in Linda's reply. In fact, it was a very calm and reasonable difference of opinion, whereas some get very worked up on the Astro lists!> > Usually, I don't get involved in a moderator's decision, and keep quiet - but your defence prompted me to write too, so

thanks.> > Best - Sat.> >

========> > - > vreality_au > jyotish-vidya > Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:44 AM> Re: Linda - sarah palin> > > If you dont mind my saying so Uttaraji, that seems a bit harsh. I > dont think Linda was being rude or abusive in anyway, needing > moderation. Besides if members have to be cautious of every word or > sentence used, I fear that less would be inclined to > post/participate. > > rgds, Su> > jyotish-vidya, Uttara <muttaraphalguni@ > >

wrote:> >> > Linda,> > > > This discussion has now come to an end. My patience

has worn > thinned. You have been kindly advised. Unfortunately, you have > missed the point of the integrity and respectful health of the intent > of Jyotish-Vidya and its professional delineation required. Your > continual injection of personal subjective and political conjecture > has now caused any further post of yours to be moderated.> > > > Uttara > > > > > > > > > > > > Linda Callanan <annaicenter@ >> > jyotish-vidya> > Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:09:34 PM> > Re: Linda - sarah palin> > > > > > Uttara,> > > > Yes, I had/have

choices here as do we all. > > Without her