Mr. L Y Rao's views - a little sanity please

May 1, 2008

Dear Savitha,

Thank you for joining in...

Allow me to remind you that this entire series of

stern and severely critical replies by me,was begun by some extremely

impolite replies to my queries by the then editor Rajni Khan and in

particular by Yograj...Kindly read their replies first and then write

back...Yograj also tried to impress me by saying that he was earning

a 7-figure salary...! ?

Secondly,I am a member of only the K.P. Astrology

Group,and have been involved in research in K.P.,and it was by sheer

chance that I logged on to this site and read the claims made about

LK and it's " remedies " ...by some of the followers of LK.( By the

way,I have a lot of friends who repose their faith in LK remedies...

I asked all of them if there was any literature

written by the Great SEER himself...and asked them a simple

query...IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR LK PREDICTIONS & REMEDIES....? If

so,what ?

I also asked them... " since you all strongly believe

in the Karma theory,every thing is predestined...How can remedies

help at all ? "

THAT STARTED IT ALL...I HAD LET LOOSE A BEE IN THEIR

HATS...IT SEEMED...

Then Umesh Sharma,as a rejoinder asked me the

rationale of the Vimshottari Dasa...which I provided them with

promptly TO THEIR GREAT CHAGRIN...it now appears...since then, they

became hostile...because it was their turn to provide a rationale for

LK... Hostility they thought would make me back off...BUT I DID

NOT...EVERYBODY THEN RAN TO THEIR RESCUE...WITH BIZARRE EXPLANATIONS,

WHICH WERE PROMPTLY DEMOLISHED...

One person asked me what is mant by TITHI...I replied

that K.P. does not recognise or use Tithis...and that tithi is a

method of expressing the distance between the Sun and the Moon on a

particular day...and so on...

INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO MY FIRST QUERY,THEY THEN

CONTINUED TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE... INSTEAD OF PLAINLY ADMITTING THAT

THE GREAT SEER HIMSELF HAD WRITTEN NO BOOK NOR HAD HE MADE ANY

NOTES...(WHICH FACT I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF... BUT WAS NOT VERY

CERTAIN ABOUT...)

You seem totally silent about...the language of Mike

M's mails...you are certainly biased...

Whether people like you,Savitha,recognise me as a K.P.

Astrologer or not,I don't really care...I have studied astrology

since 1960's...

But from whatever you have written TWO FACTS

EMERGE...ONE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ENTIRE CONVERSATIONS

BETWEEN ME AND YOUR FRIENDS....THE OTHER IS THAT YOU ARE STILL

BIASED ...AND OF ALL THINGS,YOU HAVE TAKEN UMBRAGE AT MY

LANGUAGE,,,BUT ARE LOUDLY SILENT ON THE LANGUAGE USED BY YOUR FRIENDS

SUCH AS MIKE M.,AND TAKING POTSHOT AT ME BY QUESTIONING MY ABILITY

AND PROFICIENCY AS A K.P. ASTROLOGER...BE THAT AS IT MAY...I DO NOT

NEED ANY CERTIFICATES FROM ANYBODY...NEITHER DO I HAVE...IF THAT

PLEASES YOU...

I agree with you,I certainly CAN be gentler,and AM...

but I reserve my right to react strongly and wiftly if needlessly

provoked especially by foul language...

I gues Savitha pl. go through the entire

correspondence,and try to be FAIR...

Let me ask you,frankly...who put you up to this ?

With best wishes,

L.Y.Rao.

>

> I have been following this exchange avidly. While Mr. Rao could be

> gentler and non-offensive in his mannerisms, the points he raises

can

> be discussed, not to justify anyone but for people like myself who

> would want to participate in the debate but are scared and put off

by

> the uncivilized language on occasions. (Is Mr. Rao really a senior

> citizen?)

>

> As I could understand, the debate can be summed up as following:

>

> 1. Initially Mr. Rao questions Lal Kitab's veracity and jeers the

> followers to prove it.

>

> 2. A flood of response from LK lovers asking Mr. Rao to keep quiet,

> get out or irrelevant responses. Few, from Rajni, Umesh (though

> keeping track of hindi in capital letters is tedious), Yograj try to

> sanely present the case. They simply ask him to read the book and

then

> question.

>

> 3. A lot of unnecessary emails (hate). Very disturbing.

>

> 4. Mr. Rao changes tack or accepts that the LK originator Pt. Rup

> Chandji was a seer but today's LK practioners are not in the same

league.

>

> I have not read the book. My interest is in solutions. The right

> solution ofcourse. When this topic opened up, I was eager to know

all

> sides of the arguments. Sadly, as this becomes a fight amongst the

> professional astrolgers, which was not needed.

>

> As a user I seek solutions. I have used vedic with uncertain

results,

> KP with questionable readings (and they do not offer any remedies)

and

> LK remedies with results (though are they due to the remedies or

just

> existence was playing a game with me).

>

> I particularly like someone's statement in one of the forums where

> he/she said that performing LK remedies is your Karma's chance to

you

> to correct the imbalance. Not everyone gets the opportunity. This

> statement can be true for everything including medicine.

>

> My request: Can the parties involved be polite and discuss the issue

> here. If you choose to disagree, then you can continue to be

> participant with your views as those views add to the global

> knowledge. Hopefully we will be able to invite others to join the

> debate and share their experiences - rewarding as well as

> disappointing. Do we want to put them away?

>

> I am confused. If Mr. Rao is as elder as he claims and if he

practices

> KP then he cannot use such language or even if he can, he will

> certainly refrain from so. Is it a KP professional astrolger who has

> been hurt by LK's fan following? I do not see Mr. Rao participating

in

> other forums - either he is not a member there or he is banned from

> there. Whatever!

>

> Neverthless, we still can be civil and stick to the agenda. At least

> we can try.

>

May 2, 2008

Dear Mr. Rao,

Have I been really impolite? In my mails, never nor can be. I

guess you have confused everyone to be a part of a big group and are

criticizing them all in one go. For the record, I have not done any

impoliteness to you.

The rationale was explained to you many times. You choose to

ignore it or this is how I and perhaps understand.

Asking a question like this is asking too much. What is the

rationale of astrology itself?

There is a logic in LK. You are free to embrace it or not

embrace it.

Imagine the same question – what is the logic to KP? You will

give the explanations. May be they are not valid enough for me.

You say that every one has run away. No one has run away. I have

been keeping quiet as it is no use debating the issue with you as you have not

taken the discussion further than what is the rationale of LK. As mentioned

earlier, what is the rationale of astrology?

My view is that astrology is a method devised by human beings to

tackle the unknown of which most human beings are scared.

Whatever will help us to alleviate this fear, is good enough for

us.

I am still willing to debate this issue with you (not run away)

provided we can move step by step.

For me and many others, LK works. As simple as that. LK itself

does not offer much explanation. It says, if this is so, do it. That’s

it. At least most of the times. I am no great LK expert myself. For instance,

Rahu in 11th (what is the rationale of Rahu & Ketu I wonder?

Fictious planets) – if the native wears a police uniform when he does not

belong to police department, he will be behind bars in no time. This is what LK

says. Now what can be the rationale to this? LK has no answer, we can only make

conjectures. But LK works.

To add fuel to fire: You can ask what is the logic of varshphal?

To my best knowledge, I know of no one who can answer this. We just use it. It works

that’s all.

lalkitab

[lalkitab ] On Behalf Of L.Y.Rao.

Thursday, May 01, 2008 21:08

lalkitab

[lalkitab] Re: Mr. L Y Rao's views - a little sanity

please

Dear Savitha,

Thank you for joining in...

Allow me to remind you that this entire series of

stern and severely critical replies by me,was begun by some extremely

impolite replies to my queries by the then editor Rajni Khan and in

particular by Yograj...Kindly read their replies first and then write

back...Yograj also tried to impress me by saying that he was earning

a 7-figure salary...! ?

Secondly,I am a member of only the K.P. Astrology

Group,and have been involved in research in K.P.,and it was by sheer

chance that I logged on to this site and read the claims made about

LK and it's " remedies " ...by some of the followers of LK.( By the

way,I have a lot of friends who repose their faith in LK remedies...

I asked all of them if there was any literature

written by the Great SEER himself...and asked them a simple

query...IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR LK PREDICTIONS & REMEDIES....? If

so,what ?

I also asked them... " since you all strongly believe

in the Karma theory,every thing is predestined...How can remedies

help at all ? "

THAT STARTED IT ALL...I HAD LET LOOSE A BEE IN THEIR

HATS...IT SEEMED...

Then Umesh Sharma,as a rejoinder asked me the

rationale of the Vimshottari Dasa...which I provided them with

promptly TO THEIR GREAT CHAGRIN...it now appears...since then, they

became hostile...because it was their turn to provide a rationale for

LK... Hostility they thought would make me back off...BUT I DID

NOT...EVERYBODY THEN RAN TO THEIR RESCUE...WITH BIZARRE EXPLANATIONS,

WHICH WERE PROMPTLY DEMOLISHED...

One person asked me what is mant by TITHI...I replied

that K.P. does not recognise or use Tithis...and that tithi is a

method of expressing the distance between the Sun and the Moon on a

particular day...and so on...

INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO MY FIRST QUERY,THEY THEN

CONTINUED TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE... INSTEAD OF PLAINLY ADMITTING THAT

THE GREAT SEER HIMSELF HAD WRITTEN NO BOOK NOR HAD HE MADE ANY

NOTES...(WHICH FACT I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF... BUT WAS NOT VERY

CERTAIN ABOUT...)

You seem totally silent about...the language of Mike

M's mails...you are certainly biased...

Whether people like you,Savitha,recognise me as a K.P.

Astrologer or not,I don't really care...I have studied astrology

since 1960's...

But from whatever you have written TWO FACTS

EMERGE...ONE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ENTIRE CONVERSATIONS

BETWEEN ME AND YOUR FRIENDS....THE OTHER IS THAT YOU ARE STILL

BIASED ...AND OF ALL THINGS,YOU HAVE TAKEN UMBRAGE AT MY

LANGUAGE,,,BUT ARE LOUDLY SILENT ON THE LANGUAGE USED BY YOUR FRIENDS

SUCH AS MIKE M.,AND TAKING POTSHOT AT ME BY QUESTIONING MY ABILITY

AND PROFICIENCY AS A K.P. ASTROLOGER...BE THAT AS IT MAY...I DO NOT

NEED ANY CERTIFICATES FROM ANYBODY...NEITHER DO I HAVE...IF THAT

PLEASES YOU...

I agree with you,I certainly CAN be gentler,and AM...

but I reserve my right to react strongly and wiftly if needlessly

provoked especially by foul language...

I gues Savitha pl. go through the entire

correspondence,and try to be FAIR...

Let me ask you,frankly...who put you up to this ?

With best wishes,

L.Y.Rao.

>

> I have been following this exchange avidly. While Mr. Rao could be

> gentler and non-offensive in his mannerisms, the points he raises

can

> be discussed, not to justify anyone but for people like myself who

> would want to participate in the debate but are scared and put off

by

> the uncivilized language on occasions. (Is Mr. Rao really a senior

> citizen?)

>

> As I could understand, the debate can be summed up as following:

>

> 1. Initially Mr. Rao questions Lal Kitab's veracity and jeers the

> followers to prove it.

>

> 2. A flood of response from LK lovers asking Mr. Rao to keep quiet,

> get out or irrelevant responses. Few, from Rajni, Umesh (though

> keeping track of hindi in capital letters is tedious), Yograj try to

> sanely present the case. They simply ask him to read the book and

then

> question.

>

> 3. A lot of unnecessary emails (hate). Very disturbing.

>

> 4. Mr. Rao changes tack or accepts that the LK originator Pt. Rup

> Chandji was a seer but today's LK practioners are not in the same

league.

>

> I have not read the book. My interest is in solutions. The right

> solution ofcourse. When this topic opened up, I was eager to know

all

> sides of the arguments. Sadly, as this becomes a fight amongst the

> professional astrolgers, which was not needed.

>

> As a user I seek solutions. I have used vedic with uncertain

results,

> KP with questionable readings (and they do not offer any remedies)

and

> LK remedies with results (though are they due to the remedies or

just

> existence was playing a game with me).

>

> I particularly like someone's statement in one of the forums where

> he/she said that performing LK remedies is your Karma's chance to

you

> to correct the imbalance. Not everyone gets the opportunity. This

> statement can be true for everything including medicine.

>

> My request: Can the parties involved be polite and discuss the issue

> here. If you choose to disagree, then you can continue to be

> participant with your views as those views add to the global

> knowledge. Hopefully we will be able to invite others to join the

> debate and share their experiences - rewarding as well as

> disappointing. Do we want to put them away?

>

> I am confused. If Mr. Rao is as elder as he claims and if he

practices

> KP then he cannot use such language or even if he can, he will

> certainly refrain from so. Is it a KP professional astrolger who has

> been hurt by LK's fan following? I do not see Mr. Rao participating

in

> other forums - either he is not a member there or he is banned from

> there. Whatever!

>

> Neverthless, we still can be civil and stick to the agenda. At least

> we can try.

>

May 2, 2008

Dear Mr. Rao,

This is Umesh Sharma. I have not seen your rationale for Vimshottri

dasha. If you have given it, then please resend it to this forum for

all to read.

lalkitab , " L.Y.Rao. " <lyrastro1

wrote:

>

> Dear Savitha,

> Thank you for joining in...

> Allow me to remind you that this entire series of

> stern and severely critical replies by me,was begun by some extremely

> impolite replies to my queries by the then editor Rajni Khan and in

> particular by Yograj...Kindly read their replies first and then write

> back...Yograj also tried to impress me by saying that he was earning

> a 7-figure salary...! ?

> Secondly,I am a member of only the K.P. Astrology

> Group,and have been involved in research in K.P.,and it was by sheer

> chance that I logged on to this site and read the claims made about

> LK and it's " remedies " ...by some of the followers of LK.( By the

> way,I have a lot of friends who repose their faith in LK remedies...

> I asked all of them if there was any literature

> written by the Great SEER himself...and asked them a simple

> query...IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR LK PREDICTIONS & REMEDIES....? If

> so,what ?

> I also asked them... " since you all strongly believe

> in the Karma theory,every thing is predestined...How can remedies

> help at all ? "

> THAT STARTED IT ALL...I HAD LET LOOSE A BEE IN THEIR

> HATS...IT SEEMED...

> Then Umesh Sharma,as a rejoinder asked me the

> rationale of the Vimshottari Dasa...which I provided them with

> promptly TO THEIR GREAT CHAGRIN...it now appears...since then, they

> became hostile...because it was their turn to provide a rationale for

> LK... Hostility they thought would make me back off...BUT I DID

> NOT...EVERYBODY THEN RAN TO THEIR RESCUE...WITH BIZARRE EXPLANATIONS,

> WHICH WERE PROMPTLY DEMOLISHED...

> One person asked me what is mant by TITHI...I replied

> that K.P. does not recognise or use Tithis...and that tithi is a

> method of expressing the distance between the Sun and the Moon on a

> particular day...and so on...

> INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO MY FIRST QUERY,THEY THEN

> CONTINUED TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE... INSTEAD OF PLAINLY ADMITTING THAT

> THE GREAT SEER HIMSELF HAD WRITTEN NO BOOK NOR HAD HE MADE ANY

> NOTES...(WHICH FACT I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF... BUT WAS NOT VERY

> CERTAIN ABOUT...)

> You seem totally silent about...the language of Mike

> M's mails...you are certainly biased...

> Whether people like you,Savitha,recognise me as a K.P.

> Astrologer or not,I don't really care...I have studied astrology

> since 1960's...

> But from whatever you have written TWO FACTS

> EMERGE...ONE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ENTIRE CONVERSATIONS

> BETWEEN ME AND YOUR FRIENDS....THE OTHER IS THAT YOU ARE STILL

> BIASED ...AND OF ALL THINGS,YOU HAVE TAKEN UMBRAGE AT MY

> LANGUAGE,,,BUT ARE LOUDLY SILENT ON THE LANGUAGE USED BY YOUR FRIENDS

> SUCH AS MIKE M.,AND TAKING POTSHOT AT ME BY QUESTIONING MY ABILITY

> AND PROFICIENCY AS A K.P. ASTROLOGER...BE THAT AS IT MAY...I DO NOT

> NEED ANY CERTIFICATES FROM ANYBODY...NEITHER DO I HAVE...IF THAT

> PLEASES YOU...

> I agree with you,I certainly CAN be gentler,and AM...

> but I reserve my right to react strongly and wiftly if needlessly

> provoked especially by foul language...

> I gues Savitha pl. go through the entire

> correspondence,and try to be FAIR...

> Let me ask you,frankly...who put you up to this ?

> With best wishes,

> L.Y.Rao.

>

> >

> > I have been following this exchange avidly. While Mr. Rao could be

> > gentler and non-offensive in his mannerisms, the points he raises

> can

> > be discussed, not to justify anyone but for people like myself who

> > would want to participate in the debate but are scared and put off

> by

> > the uncivilized language on occasions. (Is Mr. Rao really a senior

> > citizen?)

> >

> > As I could understand, the debate can be summed up as following:

> >

> > 1. Initially Mr. Rao questions Lal Kitab's veracity and jeers the

> > followers to prove it.

> >

> > 2. A flood of response from LK lovers asking Mr. Rao to keep quiet,

> > get out or irrelevant responses. Few, from Rajni, Umesh (though

> > keeping track of hindi in capital letters is tedious), Yograj try to

> > sanely present the case. They simply ask him to read the book and

> then

> > question.

> >

> > 3. A lot of unnecessary emails (hate). Very disturbing.

> >

> > 4. Mr. Rao changes tack or accepts that the LK originator Pt. Rup

> > Chandji was a seer but today's LK practioners are not in the same

> league.

> >

> > I have not read the book. My interest is in solutions. The right

> > solution ofcourse. When this topic opened up, I was eager to know

> all

> > sides of the arguments. Sadly, as this becomes a fight amongst the

> > professional astrolgers, which was not needed.

> >

> > As a user I seek solutions. I have used vedic with uncertain

> results,

> > KP with questionable readings (and they do not offer any remedies)

> and

> > LK remedies with results (though are they due to the remedies or

> just

> > existence was playing a game with me).

> >

> > I particularly like someone's statement in one of the forums where

> > he/she said that performing LK remedies is your Karma's chance to

> you

> > to correct the imbalance. Not everyone gets the opportunity. This

> > statement can be true for everything including medicine.

> >

> > My request: Can the parties involved be polite and discuss the issue

> > here. If you choose to disagree, then you can continue to be

> > participant with your views as those views add to the global

> > knowledge. Hopefully we will be able to invite others to join the

> > debate and share their experiences - rewarding as well as

> > disappointing. Do we want to put them away?

> >

> > I am confused. If Mr. Rao is as elder as he claims and if he

> practices

> > KP then he cannot use such language or even if he can, he will

> > certainly refrain from so. Is it a KP professional astrolger who has

> > been hurt by LK's fan following? I do not see Mr. Rao participating

> in

> > other forums - either he is not a member there or he is banned from

> > there. Whatever!

> >

> > Neverthless, we still can be civil and stick to the agenda. At least

> > we can try.

> >

>

May 2, 2008

Dea Umesh Sharma,

I have RE-SENT the entire Rationale for Vimshottari

Dasa today,a few minutes ago through mail...

If this time also you still claim that I have not

sent it...(my computer has proof that it has been sent...and if it is

not received by you it should rebound...this has NOT happenned hence

it is proof that you HAVE DEFINITELY RECEIVED my mail about the

Vimshottari Dasa).

It seems that none of you ever imagined that I

would successfully send you the rationale for Vimshottari Dasa...

THIS TIME PLEASE DO NOT SAY YOU HAVE NOT RECEIVED

IT...

L.Y.Rao.

>

> Dear Mr. Rao,

>

> This is Umesh Sharma. I have not seen your rationale for Vimshottri

> dasha. If you have given it, then please resend it to this forum for

> all to read.

>

> lalkitab , " L.Y.Rao. " <lyrastro1@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Savitha,

> > Thank you for joining in...

> > Allow me to remind you that this entire series of

> > stern and severely critical replies by me,was begun by some

extremely

> > impolite replies to my queries by the then editor Rajni Khan and

in

> > particular by Yograj...Kindly read their replies first and then

write

> > back...Yograj also tried to impress me by saying that he was

earning

> > a 7-figure salary...! ?

> > Secondly,I am a member of only the K.P. Astrology

> > Group,and have been involved in research in K.P.,and it was by

sheer

> > chance that I logged on to this site and read the claims made

about

> > LK and it's " remedies " ...by some of the followers of LK.( By the

> > way,I have a lot of friends who repose their faith in LK

remedies...

> > I asked all of them if there was any literature

> > written by the Great SEER himself...and asked them a simple

> > query...IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR LK PREDICTIONS & REMEDIES....?

If

> >

so,what ?

> > I also asked them... " since you all strongly

believe

> > in the Karma theory,every thing is predestined...How can remedies

> > help at all ? "

> > THAT STARTED IT ALL...I HAD LET LOOSE A BEE IN

THEIR

> > HATS...IT SEEMED...

> > Then Umesh Sharma,as a rejoinder asked me the

> > rationale of the Vimshottari Dasa...which I provided them with

> > promptly TO THEIR GREAT CHAGRIN...it now appears...since then,

they

> > became hostile...because it was their turn to provide a rationale

for

> > LK... Hostility they thought would make me back off...BUT I DID

> > NOT...EVERYBODY THEN RAN TO THEIR RESCUE...WITH BIZARRE

EXPLANATIONS,

> > WHICH WERE PROMPTLY DEMOLISHED...

> > One person asked me what is mant by TITHI...I

replied

> > that K.P. does not recognise or use Tithis...and that tithi is a

> > method of expressing the distance between the Sun and the Moon on

a

> > particular day...and so on...

> > INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO MY FIRST QUERY,THEY THEN

> > CONTINUED TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE... INSTEAD OF PLAINLY ADMITTING

THAT

> > THE GREAT SEER HIMSELF HAD WRITTEN NO BOOK NOR HAD HE MADE ANY

> > NOTES...(WHICH FACT I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF... BUT WAS NOT VERY

> > CERTAIN ABOUT...)

> > You seem totally silent about...the language of

Mike

> > M's mails...you are certainly biased...

> > Whether people like you,Savitha,recognise me as a

K.P.

> > Astrologer or not,I don't really care...I have studied astrology

> > since 1960's...

> > But from whatever you have written TWO FACTS

> > EMERGE...ONE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ENTIRE

CONVERSATIONS

> > BETWEEN ME AND YOUR FRIENDS....THE OTHER IS THAT YOU ARE STILL

> > BIASED ...AND OF ALL THINGS,YOU HAVE TAKEN UMBRAGE AT MY

> > LANGUAGE,,,BUT ARE LOUDLY SILENT ON THE LANGUAGE USED BY YOUR

FRIENDS

> > SUCH AS MIKE M.,AND TAKING POTSHOT AT ME BY QUESTIONING MY

ABILITY

> > AND PROFICIENCY AS A K.P. ASTROLOGER...BE THAT AS IT MAY...I DO

NOT

> > NEED ANY CERTIFICATES FROM ANYBODY...NEITHER DO I HAVE...IF THAT

> > PLEASES YOU...

> > I agree with you,I certainly CAN be gentler,and

AM...

> > but I reserve my right to react strongly and wiftly if needlessly

> > provoked especially by foul language...

> > I gues Savitha pl. go through the entire

> > correspondence,and try to be FAIR...

> > Let me ask you,frankly...who put you up to this ?

> > With best wishes,

> > L.Y.Rao.

> >

> > >

> > > I have been following this exchange avidly. While Mr. Rao could

be

> > > gentler and non-offensive in his mannerisms, the points he

raises

> > can

> > > be discussed, not to justify anyone but for people like myself

who

> > > would want to participate in the debate but are scared and put

off

> > by

> > > the uncivilized language on occasions. (Is Mr. Rao really a

senior

> > > citizen?)

> > >

> > > As I could understand, the debate can be summed up as following:

> > >

> > > 1. Initially Mr. Rao questions Lal Kitab's veracity and jeers

the

> > > followers to prove it.

> > >

> > > 2. A flood of response from LK lovers asking Mr. Rao to keep

quiet,

> > > get out or irrelevant responses. Few, from Rajni, Umesh (though

> > > keeping track of hindi in capital letters is tedious), Yograj

try to

> > > sanely present the case. They simply ask him to read the book

and

> > then

> > > question.

> > >

> > > 3. A lot of unnecessary emails (hate). Very disturbing.

> > >

> > > 4. Mr. Rao changes tack or accepts that the LK originator Pt.

Rup

> > > Chandji was a seer but today's LK practioners are not in the

same

> > league.

> > >

> > > I have not read the book. My interest is in solutions. The right

> > > solution ofcourse. When this topic opened up, I was eager to

know

> > all

> > > sides of the arguments. Sadly, as this becomes a fight amongst

the

> > > professional astrolgers, which was not needed.

> > >

> > > As a user I seek solutions. I have used vedic with uncertain

> > results,

> > > KP with questionable readings (and they do not offer any

remedies)

> > and

> > > LK remedies with results (though are they due to the remedies

or

> > just

> > > existence was playing a game with me).

> > >

> > > I particularly like someone's statement in one of the forums

where

> > > he/she said that performing LK remedies is your Karma's chance

to

> > you

> > > to correct the imbalance. Not everyone gets the opportunity.

This

> > > statement can be true for everything including medicine.

> > >

> > > My request: Can the parties involved be polite and discuss the

issue

> > > here. If you choose to disagree, then you can continue to be

> > > participant with your views as those views add to the global

> > > knowledge. Hopefully we will be able to invite others to join

the

> > > debate and share their experiences - rewarding as well as

> > > disappointing. Do we want to put them away?

> > >

> > > I am confused. If Mr. Rao is as elder as he claims and if he

> > practices

> > > KP then he cannot use such language or even if he can, he will

> > > certainly refrain from so. Is it a KP professional astrolger

who has

> > > been hurt by LK's fan following? I do not see Mr. Rao

participating

> > in

> > > other forums - either he is not a member there or he is banned

from

> > > there. Whatever!

> > >

> > > Neverthless, we still can be civil and stick to the agenda. At

least

> > > we can try.

> > >

> >

>

May 2, 2008

Dear Umesh Sharma,

Pl. confirm receipt of Rationale for Vimshottari

Dasa...OR are you simply pretending you have NOT received it,because

if you admit you have,it is your turn to give the Rationale for Lal

Kitab sayings & remedies...!

My computer shows receipt by you...else it should

have rebounded...and don't try to be " clever " by blocking my e-mails

either...

Come on,Umesh pl. do not waste everybody's

time...and create needless controversies,by refusing to acknowledge

receipt of the Rationale in order to avoid answering my ORIGINAL

QUESTION...ALL THIS IS DUE TO YOUR REFUSAL TO ANSWER MY ORIGINAL

QUESTION...UNDER ONE PRETREXT OR THE OTHER...OR SIMPLY COME OUT

BOLDLY AND ADMIT THAT LAL KITAB HAS NO RATIONALE AND THAT IT IS A

COLLECTION OF HIS SAYINGS,GIFTED TO HIM (SHRI ROOP CHAND JOSHI) BY

THE ALMIGHTY,AS A REWARD FOR HIS RELENTLESS SAADHANA OVER MANY

YEARS...).

My friends and I here in Mumbai know and have heard

about Lal Kitab years ago...but were not very sure whether he had

written any book at all...all books are thus NOT ORIGINAL...just

individual interpretations of his original sayings...hence they

differ from book to book...!

COME ON UMESH BE MAN ENOUGH...

L.Y.Rao.

>

> Dear Mr. Rao,

>

> This is Umesh Sharma. I have not seen your rationale for Vimshottri

> dasha. If you have given it, then please resend it to this forum for

> all to read.

>

> lalkitab , " L.Y.Rao. " <lyrastro1@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Savitha,

> > Thank you for joining in...

> > Allow me to remind you that this entire series of

> > stern and severely critical replies by me,was begun by some

extremely

> > impolite replies to my queries by the then editor Rajni Khan and

in

> > particular by Yograj...Kindly read their replies first and then

write

> > back...Yograj also tried to impress me by saying that he was

earning

> > a 7-figure salary...! ?

> > Secondly,I am a member of only the K.P. Astrology

> > Group,and have been involved in research in K.P.,and it was by

sheer

> > chance that I logged on to this site and read the claims made

about

> > LK and it's " remedies " ...by some of the followers of LK.( By the

> > way,I have a lot of friends who repose their faith in LK

remedies...

> > I asked all of them if there was any literature

> > written by the Great SEER himself...and asked them a simple

> > query...IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR LK PREDICTIONS & REMEDIES....?

If

> >

so,what ?

> > I also asked them... " since you all strongly

believe

> > in the Karma theory,every thing is predestined...How can remedies

> > help at all ? "

> > THAT STARTED IT ALL...I HAD LET LOOSE A BEE IN

THEIR

> > HATS...IT SEEMED...

> > Then Umesh Sharma,as a rejoinder asked me the

> > rationale of the Vimshottari Dasa...which I provided them with

> > promptly TO THEIR GREAT CHAGRIN...it now appears...since then,

they

> > became hostile...because it was their turn to provide a rationale

for

> > LK... Hostility they thought would make me back off...BUT I DID

> > NOT...EVERYBODY THEN RAN TO THEIR RESCUE...WITH BIZARRE

EXPLANATIONS,

> > WHICH WERE PROMPTLY DEMOLISHED...

> > One person asked me what is mant by TITHI...I

replied

> > that K.P. does not recognise or use Tithis...and that tithi is a

> > method of expressing the distance between the Sun and the Moon on

a

> > particular day...and so on...

> > INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO MY FIRST QUERY,THEY THEN

> > CONTINUED TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE... INSTEAD OF PLAINLY ADMITTING

THAT

> > THE GREAT SEER HIMSELF HAD WRITTEN NO BOOK NOR HAD HE MADE ANY

> > NOTES...(WHICH FACT I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF... BUT WAS NOT VERY

> > CERTAIN ABOUT...)

> > You seem totally silent about...the language of

Mike

> > M's mails...you are certainly biased...

> > Whether people like you,Savitha,recognise me as a

K.P.

> > Astrologer or not,I don't really care...I have studied astrology

> > since 1960's...

> > But from whatever you have written TWO FACTS

> > EMERGE...ONE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ENTIRE

CONVERSATIONS

> > BETWEEN ME AND YOUR FRIENDS....THE OTHER IS THAT YOU ARE STILL

> > BIASED ...AND OF ALL THINGS,YOU HAVE TAKEN UMBRAGE AT MY

> > LANGUAGE,,,BUT ARE LOUDLY SILENT ON THE LANGUAGE USED BY YOUR

FRIENDS

> > SUCH AS MIKE M.,AND TAKING POTSHOT AT ME BY QUESTIONING MY

ABILITY

> > AND PROFICIENCY AS A K.P. ASTROLOGER...BE THAT AS IT MAY...I DO

NOT

> > NEED ANY CERTIFICATES FROM ANYBODY...NEITHER DO I HAVE...IF THAT

> > PLEASES YOU...

> > I agree with you,I certainly CAN be gentler,and

AM...

> > but I reserve my right to react strongly and wiftly if needlessly

> > provoked especially by foul language...

> > I gues Savitha pl. go through the entire

> > correspondence,and try to be FAIR...

> > Let me ask you,frankly...who put you up to this ?

> > With best wishes,

> > L.Y.Rao.

> >

> > >

> > > I have been following this exchange avidly. While Mr. Rao could

be

> > > gentler and non-offensive in his mannerisms, the points he

raises

> > can

> > > be discussed, not to justify anyone but for people like myself

who

> > > would want to participate in the debate but are scared and put

off

> > by

> > > the uncivilized language on occasions. (Is Mr. Rao really a

senior

> > > citizen?)

> > >

> > > As I could understand, the debate can be summed up as following:

> > >

> > > 1. Initially Mr. Rao questions Lal Kitab's veracity and jeers

the

> > > followers to prove it.

> > >

> > > 2. A flood of response from LK lovers asking Mr. Rao to keep

quiet,

> > > get out or irrelevant responses. Few, from Rajni, Umesh (though

> > > keeping track of hindi in capital letters is tedious), Yograj

try to

> > > sanely present the case. They simply ask him to read the book

and

> > then

> > > question.

> > >

> > > 3. A lot of unnecessary emails (hate). Very disturbing.

> > >

> > > 4. Mr. Rao changes tack or accepts that the LK originator Pt.

Rup

> > > Chandji was a seer but today's LK practioners are not in the

same

> > league.

> > >

> > > I have not read the book. My interest is in solutions. The right

> > > solution ofcourse. When this topic opened up, I was eager to

know

> > all

> > > sides of the arguments. Sadly, as this becomes a fight amongst

the

> > > professional astrolgers, which was not needed.

> > >

> > > As a user I seek solutions. I have used vedic with uncertain

> > results,

> > > KP with questionable readings (and they do not offer any

remedies)

> > and

> > > LK remedies with results (though are they due to the remedies

or

> > just

> > > existence was playing a game with me).

> > >

> > > I particularly like someone's statement in one of the forums

where

> > > he/she said that performing LK remedies is your Karma's chance

to

> > you

> > > to correct the imbalance. Not everyone gets the opportunity.

This

> > > statement can be true for everything including medicine.

> > >

> > > My request: Can the parties involved be polite and discuss the

issue

> > > here. If you choose to disagree, then you can continue to be

> > > participant with your views as those views add to the global

> > > knowledge. Hopefully we will be able to invite others to join

the

> > > debate and share their experiences - rewarding as well as

> > > disappointing. Do we want to put them away?

> > >

> > > I am confused. If Mr. Rao is as elder as he claims and if he

> > practices

> > > KP then he cannot use such language or even if he can, he will

> > > certainly refrain from so. Is it a KP professional astrolger

who has

> > > been hurt by LK's fan following? I do not see Mr. Rao

participating

> > in

> > > other forums - either he is not a member there or he is banned

from

> > > there. Whatever!

> > >

> > > Neverthless, we still can be civil and stick to the agenda. At

least

> > > we can try.

> > >

> >

>

May 2, 2008

Rao Sir, i had mentioned in detail when and who wrote and published the books, what can one do if u refute documentary evidence that the books were got wrritten, pubished and distrubuted by pt. rup lal joshi himself.

sincerely

kulbirbace

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:08 PM, L.Y.Rao. <lyrastro1 wrote:

Dear Savitha,Thank you for joining in...Allow me to remind you that this entire series of stern and severely critical replies by me,was begun by some extremely impolite replies to my queries by the then editor Rajni Khan and in

particular by Yograj...Kindly read their replies first and then write back...Yograj also tried to impress me by saying that he was earning a 7-figure salary...! ?Secondly,I am a member of only the K.P. Astrology

Group,and have been involved in research in K.P.,and it was by sheer chance that I logged on to this site and read the claims made about LK and it's " remedies " ...by some of the followers of LK.( By the

way,I have a lot of friends who repose their faith in LK remedies...I asked all of them if there was any literature written by the Great SEER himself...and asked them a simple query...IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR LK PREDICTIONS & REMEDIES....? If

so,what ? I also asked them... " since you all strongly believe in the Karma theory,every thing is predestined...How can remedies help at all ? " THAT STARTED IT ALL...I HAD LET LOOSE A BEE IN THEIR

HATS...IT SEEMED...Then Umesh Sharma,as a rejoinder asked me the rationale of the Vimshottari Dasa...which I provided them with promptly TO THEIR GREAT CHAGRIN...it now appears...since then, they became hostile...because it was their turn to provide a rationale for

LK... Hostility they thought would make me back off...BUT I DID NOT...EVERYBODY THEN RAN TO THEIR RESCUE...WITH BIZARRE EXPLANATIONS, WHICH WERE PROMPTLY DEMOLISHED...One person asked me what is mant by TITHI...I replied

that K.P. does not recognise or use Tithis...and that tithi is a method of expressing the distance between the Sun and the Moon on a particular day...and so on...INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO MY FIRST QUERY,THEY THEN

CONTINUED TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE... INSTEAD OF PLAINLY ADMITTING THAT THE GREAT SEER HIMSELF HAD WRITTEN NO BOOK NOR HAD HE MADE ANY NOTES...(WHICH FACT I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF... BUT WAS NOT VERY CERTAIN ABOUT...)

You seem totally silent about...the language of Mike M's mails...you are certainly biased...Whether people like you,Savitha,recognise me as a K.P. Astrologer or not,I don't really care...I have studied astrology

since 1960's...But from whatever you have written TWO FACTS EMERGE...ONE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ENTIRE CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN ME AND YOUR FRIENDS....THE OTHER IS THAT YOU ARE STILL BIASED ...AND OF ALL THINGS,YOU HAVE TAKEN UMBRAGE AT MY

LANGUAGE,,,BUT ARE LOUDLY SILENT ON THE LANGUAGE USED BY YOUR FRIENDS SUCH AS MIKE M.,AND TAKING POTSHOT AT ME BY QUESTIONING MY ABILITY AND PROFICIENCY AS A K.P. ASTROLOGER...BE THAT AS IT MAY...I DO NOT NEED ANY CERTIFICATES FROM ANYBODY...NEITHER DO I HAVE...IF THAT

PLEASES YOU...I agree with you,I certainly CAN be gentler,and AM... but I reserve my right to react strongly and wiftly if needlessly provoked especially by foul language...I gues Savitha pl. go through the entire

correspondence,and try to be FAIR...Let me ask you,frankly...who put you up to this ?With best wishes,L.Y.Rao.

>> I have been following this exchange avidly. While Mr. Rao could be> gentler and non-offensive in his mannerisms, the points he raises can> be discussed, not to justify anyone but for people like myself who

> would want to participate in the debate but are scared and put off by> the uncivilized language on occasions. (Is Mr. Rao really a senior> citizen?)> > As I could understand, the debate can be summed up as following:

> > 1. Initially Mr. Rao questions Lal Kitab's veracity and jeers the> followers to prove it.> > 2. A flood of response from LK lovers asking Mr. Rao to keep quiet,> get out or irrelevant responses. Few, from Rajni, Umesh (though

> keeping track of hindi in capital letters is tedious), Yograj try to> sanely present the case. They simply ask him to read the book and then> question.> > 3. A lot of unnecessary emails (hate). Very disturbing.

> > 4. Mr. Rao changes tack or accepts that the LK originator Pt. Rup> Chandji was a seer but today's LK practioners are not in the same league.> > I have not read the book. My interest is in solutions. The right

> solution ofcourse. When this topic opened up, I was eager to know all> sides of the arguments. Sadly, as this becomes a fight amongst the> professional astrolgers, which was not needed.>

> As a user I seek solutions. I have used vedic with uncertain results,> KP with questionable readings (and they do not offer any remedies) and> LK remedies with results (though are they due to the remedies or

just> existence was playing a game with me).> > I particularly like someone's statement in one of the forums where> he/she said that performing LK remedies is your Karma's chance to

you> to correct the imbalance. Not everyone gets the opportunity. This> statement can be true for everything including medicine.> > My request: Can the parties involved be polite and discuss the issue

> here. If you choose to disagree, then you can continue to be> participant with your views as those views add to the global> knowledge. Hopefully we will be able to invite others to join the> debate and share their experiences - rewarding as well as

> disappointing. Do we want to put them away?> > I am confused. If Mr. Rao is as elder as he claims and if he practices> KP then he cannot use such language or even if he can, he will> certainly refrain from so. Is it a KP professional astrolger who has

> been hurt by LK's fan following? I do not see Mr. Rao participating in> other forums - either he is not a member there or he is banned from> there. Whatever!> > Neverthless, we still can be civil and stick to the agenda. At least

> we can try.>

May 2, 2008

Dear Rajni Khan,

I am fully aware now, after delving deep into the LK

authorship of various books on the market etc.,that :

1) Pt. Roop Chand Joshiji himself NEVER wrote any

book on the subject,neither did he leave ANY diary/notes etc., but

some of his " more loyal than the king " disciples published their own

notes (as per your site),as some kind of " original Lal Kitab " ...and

have profitted out of it...(which I do not grudge them)...but trying

to parrot his sayings and making out these sometimes distorted

sayings as their own versions as " the gospel truth " , was what I

objected to right from the begining of this long seemingly unending

debate...mainly due to misplaced loyalty...AND I STILL HAVE

RESERVATIONS ABOUT...

2) As per the admission of some of your own members,

there are reportedly atleast 4 to 5 different English versions of Lal

Kitab on the Market... " each claiming to be more authentic than the

other " ...under the circumstances I had ORIGINALLY asked " What is the

Rationale for the predictions and remedies given in Lak

Kitab ? " ...WHICH SEEMS TO HAVE GOT THE GOAT...OF MANY OF YOUR MEMBERS

INCLUDING YOU YOURSELF...

3) Under the above facts do you still want to debate

with me about the authenticity of Lal Kitab,so severely damaged by

the SEER's followers,as claimed by them...

4) Which of the above facts do you refute ? And with

what evidence ?

5) If so...I'LL TAKE YOU ON...NOW...

6) Your Umesh Sharma asked me for my actual date of

Birth Time of Birth and Place of Birth...so far he has not told me

convincingly as to WHY...

7) Another member tried to impress me with his big

7-figure salary...as if that alone qualifies him to be an EXPERT ON

LAL KITAB and pontificate on a subject he himself doesn't know

well...?

8) Another questioned me on my proficiency in

Traditional astrology although I have always maintained that I

practise K.P.

9) Now you have put up some " tenderfoot " caling

herself Savitha,to question my knowledge of K.P. Astrology... !

10) When things got too hot for you you quickly

appointed Umesh Sharma as Editor,and went on " study leave " ?...is

this some sort of family-run type " I'll pat your back,you pat mine "

consiortium a conning network at work ?

11) To cut matters short,WHICH OF THE THREE FACTS

STATED ABOVE DO YOU REFUTE ? I AM READY TO TAKE YOU ON...NOW...

12) Your self-appointed representative/advocate

Savitha is welcome to discuss or better still " Learn " K.P. from me, I

am willing to teach her free of cost...provided she knows and

understands the basics of Hindu Astrology...In the meanwhile she can

spend her time reading my articles/case-studies in the Magazine K.P. &

Astrology...

In the meanwhile,Rajni,please spend your time reading

well to prepare for your proposed debate...!

Best wishes,

L.Y.Rao.

>

> Dear Mr. Rao,

>

> Have I been really impolite? In my mails, never nor can be. I guess

you have

> confused everyone to be a part of a big group and are criticizing

them all

> in one go. For the record, I have not done any impoliteness to you.

>

> The rationale was explained to you many times. You choose to ignore

it or

> this is how I and perhaps understand.

>

> Asking a question like this is asking too much. What is the

rationale of

> astrology itself?

>

> There is a logic in LK. You are free to embrace it or not embrace

it.

>

> Imagine the same question - what is the logic to KP? You will give

the

> explanations. May be they are not valid enough for me.

>

> You say that every one has run away. No one has run away. I have

been

> keeping quiet as it is no use debating the issue with you as you

have not

> taken the discussion further than what is the rationale of LK. As

mentioned

> earlier, what is the rationale of astrology?

>

> My view is that astrology is a method devised by human beings to

tackle the

> unknown of which most human beings are scared.

>

> Whatever will help us to alleviate this fear, is good enough for

us.

>

> I am still willing to debate this issue with you (not run away)

provided we

> can move step by step.

>

> For me and many others, LK works. As simple as that. LK itself does

not

> offer much explanation. It says, if this is so, do it. That's it.

At least

> most of the times. I am no great LK expert myself. For instance,

Rahu in

> 11th (what is the rationale of Rahu & Ketu I wonder? Fictious

planets) - if

> the native wears a police uniform when he does not belong to police

> department, he will be behind bars in no time. This is what LK

says. Now

> what can be the rationale to this? LK has no answer, we can only

make

> conjectures. But LK works.

>

> To add fuel to fire: You can ask what is the logic of varshphal? To

my best

> knowledge, I know of no one who can answer this. We just use it. It

works

> that's all.

>

> lalkitab

> [lalkitab ] On Behalf Of L.Y.Rao.

> Thursday, May 01, 2008 21:08

> lalkitab

> [lalkitab] Re: Mr. L Y Rao's views - a little

sanity

> please

>

> Dear Savitha,

> Thank you for joining in...

> Allow me to remind you that this entire series of

> stern and severely critical replies by me,was begun by some

extremely

> impolite replies to my queries by the then editor Rajni Khan and in

> particular by Yograj...Kindly read their replies first and then

write

> back...Yograj also tried to impress me by saying that he was

earning

> a 7-figure salary...! ?

> Secondly,I am a member of only the K.P. Astrology

> Group,and have been involved in research in K.P.,and it was by

sheer

> chance that I logged on to this site and read the claims made about

> LK and it's " remedies " ...by some of the followers of LK.( By the

> way,I have a lot of friends who repose their faith in LK remedies...

> I asked all of them if there was any literature

> written by the Great SEER himself...and asked them a simple

> query...IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR LK PREDICTIONS & REMEDIES....?

If

> so,what ?

> I also asked them... " since you all strongly believe

> in the Karma theory,every thing is predestined...How can remedies

> help at all ? "

> THAT STARTED IT ALL...I HAD LET LOOSE A BEE IN THEIR

> HATS...IT SEEMED...

> Then Umesh Sharma,as a rejoinder asked me the

> rationale of the Vimshottari Dasa...which I provided them with

> promptly TO THEIR GREAT CHAGRIN...it now appears...since then, they

> became hostile...because it was their turn to provide a rationale

for

> LK... Hostility they thought would make me back off...BUT I DID

> NOT...EVERYBODY THEN RAN TO THEIR RESCUE...WITH BIZARRE

EXPLANATIONS,

> WHICH WERE PROMPTLY DEMOLISHED...

> One person asked me what is mant by TITHI...I replied

> that K.P. does not recognise or use Tithis...and that tithi is a

> method of expressing the distance between the Sun and the Moon on a

> particular day...and so on...

> INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO MY FIRST QUERY,THEY THEN

> CONTINUED TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE... INSTEAD OF PLAINLY ADMITTING

THAT

> THE GREAT SEER HIMSELF HAD WRITTEN NO BOOK NOR HAD HE MADE ANY

> NOTES...(WHICH FACT I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF... BUT WAS NOT VERY

> CERTAIN ABOUT...)

> You seem totally silent about...the language of Mike

> M's mails...you are certainly biased...

> Whether people like you,Savitha,recognise me as a K.P.

> Astrologer or not,I don't really care...I have studied astrology

> since 1960's...

> But from whatever you have written TWO FACTS

> EMERGE...ONE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ENTIRE CONVERSATIONS

> BETWEEN ME AND YOUR FRIENDS....THE OTHER IS THAT YOU ARE STILL

> BIASED ...AND OF ALL THINGS,YOU HAVE TAKEN UMBRAGE AT MY

> LANGUAGE,,,BUT ARE LOUDLY SILENT ON THE LANGUAGE USED BY YOUR

FRIENDS

> SUCH AS MIKE M.,AND TAKING POTSHOT AT ME BY QUESTIONING MY ABILITY

> AND PROFICIENCY AS A K.P. ASTROLOGER...BE THAT AS IT MAY...I DO NOT

> NEED ANY CERTIFICATES FROM ANYBODY...NEITHER DO I HAVE...IF THAT

> PLEASES YOU...

> I agree with you,I certainly CAN be gentler,and AM...

> but I reserve my right to react strongly and wiftly if needlessly

> provoked especially by foul language...

> I gues Savitha pl. go through the entire

> correspondence,and try to be FAIR...

> Let me ask you,frankly...who put you up to this ?

> With best wishes,

> L.Y.Rao.

>

> >

> > I have been following this exchange avidly. While Mr. Rao could be

> > gentler and non-offensive in his mannerisms, the points he raises

> can

> > be discussed, not to justify anyone but for people like myself who

> > would want to participate in the debate but are scared and put

off

> by

> > the uncivilized language on occasions. (Is Mr. Rao really a senior

> > citizen?)

> >

> > As I could understand, the debate can be summed up as following:

> >

> > 1. Initially Mr. Rao questions Lal Kitab's veracity and jeers the

> > followers to prove it.

> >

> > 2. A flood of response from LK lovers asking Mr. Rao to keep

quiet,

> > get out or irrelevant responses. Few, from Rajni, Umesh (though

> > keeping track of hindi in capital letters is tedious), Yograj try

to

> > sanely present the case. They simply ask him to read the book and

> then

> > question.

> >

> > 3. A lot of unnecessary emails (hate). Very disturbing.

> >

> > 4. Mr. Rao changes tack or accepts that the LK originator Pt. Rup

> > Chandji was a seer but today's LK practioners are not in the same

> league.

> >

> > I have not read the book. My interest is in solutions. The right

> > solution ofcourse. When this topic opened up, I was eager to know

> all

> > sides of the arguments. Sadly, as this becomes a fight amongst the

> > professional astrolgers, which was not needed.

> >

> > As a user I seek solutions. I have used vedic with uncertain

> results,

> > KP with questionable readings (and they do not offer any

remedies)

> and

> > LK remedies with results (though are they due to the remedies or

> just

> > existence was playing a game with me).

> >

> > I particularly like someone's statement in one of the forums where

> > he/she said that performing LK remedies is your Karma's chance to

> you

> > to correct the imbalance. Not everyone gets the opportunity. This

> > statement can be true for everything including medicine.

> >

> > My request: Can the parties involved be polite and discuss the

issue

> > here. If you choose to disagree, then you can continue to be

> > participant with your views as those views add to the global

> > knowledge. Hopefully we will be able to invite others to join the

> > debate and share their experiences - rewarding as well as

> > disappointing. Do we want to put them away?

> >

> > I am confused. If Mr. Rao is as elder as he claims and if he

> practices

> > KP then he cannot use such language or even if he can, he will

> > certainly refrain from so. Is it a KP professional astrolger who

has

> > been hurt by LK's fan following? I do not see Mr. Rao

participating

> in

> > other forums - either he is not a member there or he is banned

from

> > there. Whatever!

> >

> > Neverthless, we still can be civil and stick to the agenda. At

least

> > we can try.

> >

>

May 2, 2008

Dear Mr. Rao,

Your mail explaining the rationale of Vishottari dasha has not been

received by this forum. Please send it to this forum not to any other

address.

If indeed you have sent it to this forum then it has not come to us.

In this case then send it to some forum members who will then post it

on your behalf.

but first send it to this forum.

lalkitab , " L.Y.Rao. " <lyrastro1

wrote:

>

> Dear Umesh Sharma,

> Pl. confirm receipt of Rationale for Vimshottari

> Dasa...OR are you simply pretending you have NOT received it,because

> if you admit you have,it is your turn to give the Rationale for Lal

> Kitab sayings & remedies...!

> My computer shows receipt by you...else it should

> have rebounded...and don't try to be " clever " by blocking my e-mails

> either...

> Come on,Umesh pl. do not waste everybody's

> time...and create needless controversies,by refusing to acknowledge

> receipt of the Rationale in order to avoid answering my ORIGINAL

> QUESTION...ALL THIS IS DUE TO YOUR REFUSAL TO ANSWER MY ORIGINAL

> QUESTION...UNDER ONE PRETREXT OR THE OTHER...OR SIMPLY COME OUT

> BOLDLY AND ADMIT THAT LAL KITAB HAS NO RATIONALE AND THAT IT IS A

> COLLECTION OF HIS SAYINGS,GIFTED TO HIM (SHRI ROOP CHAND JOSHI) BY

> THE ALMIGHTY,AS A REWARD FOR HIS RELENTLESS SAADHANA OVER MANY

> YEARS...).

> My friends and I here in Mumbai know and have heard

> about Lal Kitab years ago...but were not very sure whether he had

> written any book at all...all books are thus NOT ORIGINAL...just

> individual interpretations of his original sayings...hence they

> differ from book to book...!

> COME ON UMESH BE MAN ENOUGH...

> L.Y.Rao.

> >

> > Dear Mr. Rao,

> >

> > This is Umesh Sharma. I have not seen your rationale for Vimshottri

> > dasha. If you have given it, then please resend it to this forum for

> > all to read.

> >

> > lalkitab , " L.Y.Rao. " <lyrastro1@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Savitha,

> > > Thank you for joining in...

> > > Allow me to remind you that this entire series of

> > > stern and severely critical replies by me,was begun by some

> extremely

> > > impolite replies to my queries by the then editor Rajni Khan and

> in

> > > particular by Yograj...Kindly read their replies first and then

> write

> > > back...Yograj also tried to impress me by saying that he was

> earning

> > > a 7-figure salary...! ?

> > > Secondly,I am a member of only the K.P. Astrology

> > > Group,and have been involved in research in K.P.,and it was by

> sheer

> > > chance that I logged on to this site and read the claims made

> about

> > > LK and it's " remedies " ...by some of the followers of LK.( By the

> > > way,I have a lot of friends who repose their faith in LK

> remedies...

> > > I asked all of them if there was any literature

> > > written by the Great SEER himself...and asked them a simple

> > > query...IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR LK PREDICTIONS & REMEDIES....?

> If

> > >

> so,what ?

> > > I also asked them... " since you all strongly

> believe

> > > in the Karma theory,every thing is predestined...How can remedies

> > > help at all ? "

> > > THAT STARTED IT ALL...I HAD LET LOOSE A BEE IN

> THEIR

> > > HATS...IT SEEMED...

> > > Then Umesh Sharma,as a rejoinder asked me the

> > > rationale of the Vimshottari Dasa...which I provided them with

> > > promptly TO THEIR GREAT CHAGRIN...it now appears...since then,

> they

> > > became hostile...because it was their turn to provide a rationale

> for

> > > LK... Hostility they thought would make me back off...BUT I DID

> > > NOT...EVERYBODY THEN RAN TO THEIR RESCUE...WITH BIZARRE

> EXPLANATIONS,

> > > WHICH WERE PROMPTLY DEMOLISHED...

> > > One person asked me what is mant by TITHI...I

> replied

> > > that K.P. does not recognise or use Tithis...and that tithi is a

> > > method of expressing the distance between the Sun and the Moon on

> a

> > > particular day...and so on...

> > > INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO MY FIRST QUERY,THEY THEN

> > > CONTINUED TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE... INSTEAD OF PLAINLY ADMITTING

> THAT

> > > THE GREAT SEER HIMSELF HAD WRITTEN NO BOOK NOR HAD HE MADE ANY

> > > NOTES...(WHICH FACT I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF... BUT WAS NOT VERY

> > > CERTAIN ABOUT...)

> > > You seem totally silent about...the language of

> Mike

> > > M's mails...you are certainly biased...

> > > Whether people like you,Savitha,recognise me as a

> K.P.

> > > Astrologer or not,I don't really care...I have studied astrology

> > > since 1960's...

> > > But from whatever you have written TWO FACTS

> > > EMERGE...ONE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ENTIRE

> CONVERSATIONS

> > > BETWEEN ME AND YOUR FRIENDS....THE OTHER IS THAT YOU ARE STILL

> > > BIASED ...AND OF ALL THINGS,YOU HAVE TAKEN UMBRAGE AT MY

> > > LANGUAGE,,,BUT ARE LOUDLY SILENT ON THE LANGUAGE USED BY YOUR

> FRIENDS

> > > SUCH AS MIKE M.,AND TAKING POTSHOT AT ME BY QUESTIONING MY

> ABILITY

> > > AND PROFICIENCY AS A K.P. ASTROLOGER...BE THAT AS IT MAY...I DO

> NOT

> > > NEED ANY CERTIFICATES FROM ANYBODY...NEITHER DO I HAVE...IF THAT

> > > PLEASES YOU...

> > > I agree with you,I certainly CAN be gentler,and

> AM...

> > > but I reserve my right to react strongly and wiftly if needlessly

> > > provoked especially by foul language...

> > > I gues Savitha pl. go through the entire

> > > correspondence,and try to be FAIR...

> > > Let me ask you,frankly...who put you up to this ?

> > > With best wishes,

> > > L.Y.Rao.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I have been following this exchange avidly. While Mr. Rao could

> be

> > > > gentler and non-offensive in his mannerisms, the points he

> raises

> > > can

> > > > be discussed, not to justify anyone but for people like myself

> who

> > > > would want to participate in the debate but are scared and put

> off

> > > by

> > > > the uncivilized language on occasions. (Is Mr. Rao really a

> senior

> > > > citizen?)

> > > >

> > > > As I could understand, the debate can be summed up as following:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Initially Mr. Rao questions Lal Kitab's veracity and jeers

> the

> > > > followers to prove it.

> > > >

> > > > 2. A flood of response from LK lovers asking Mr. Rao to keep

> quiet,

> > > > get out or irrelevant responses. Few, from Rajni, Umesh (though

> > > > keeping track of hindi in capital letters is tedious), Yograj

> try to

> > > > sanely present the case. They simply ask him to read the book

> and

> > > then

> > > > question.

> > > >

> > > > 3. A lot of unnecessary emails (hate). Very disturbing.

> > > >

> > > > 4. Mr. Rao changes tack or accepts that the LK originator Pt.

> Rup

> > > > Chandji was a seer but today's LK practioners are not in the

> same

> > > league.

> > > >

> > > > I have not read the book. My interest is in solutions. The right

> > > > solution ofcourse. When this topic opened up, I was eager to

> know

> > > all

> > > > sides of the arguments. Sadly, as this becomes a fight amongst

> the

> > > > professional astrolgers, which was not needed.

> > > >

> > > > As a user I seek solutions. I have used vedic with uncertain

> > > results,

> > > > KP with questionable readings (and they do not offer any

> remedies)

> > > and

> > > > LK remedies with results (though are they due to the remedies

> or

> > > just

> > > > existence was playing a game with me).

> > > >

> > > > I particularly like someone's statement in one of the forums

> where

> > > > he/she said that performing LK remedies is your Karma's chance

> to

> > > you

> > > > to correct the imbalance. Not everyone gets the opportunity.

> This

> > > > statement can be true for everything including medicine.

> > > >

> > > > My request: Can the parties involved be polite and discuss the

> issue

> > > > here. If you choose to disagree, then you can continue to be

> > > > participant with your views as those views add to the global

> > > > knowledge. Hopefully we will be able to invite others to join

> the

> > > > debate and share their experiences - rewarding as well as

> > > > disappointing. Do we want to put them away?

> > > >

> > > > I am confused. If Mr. Rao is as elder as he claims and if he

> > > practices

> > > > KP then he cannot use such language or even if he can, he will

> > > > certainly refrain from so. Is it a KP professional astrolger

> who has

> > > > been hurt by LK's fan following? I do not see Mr. Rao

> participating

> > > in

> > > > other forums - either he is not a member there or he is banned

> from

> > > > there. Whatever!

> > > >

> > > > Neverthless, we still can be civil and stick to the agenda. At

> least

> > > > we can try.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

May 3, 2008

Rao sir, what proof do u need to confirm that lalkitab was written and published under direct instructions of pt. roop lal joshi.

i have following proofs

1. original 5 urdu books with details of date of publishing, publishing house; book stores, u can go in for any forensic test.

2. people who are eye witness to this are still alive, thier testimony.

3. people of his village and surrounding areas who consulted him and receieved books directly from his hands.

4. the books in hindi or english which u claim are considered to be original are translations or transliterations.they are not original, publishers make false claims. only the book by prabhakar ji is the 99 perecnt correct transliteration in hindi.

5. u r most welcome to come to punjab, visit his house, his collegues, other people mentioned above at my expense.

any further service if required, i am ready to do that also.

waiting for ur reply; lets first of all settle the issue of authorship and publication of books.

sincerely

kulbirbance

On 5/2/08, L.Y.Rao. <lyrastro1 wrote:

Dear Rajni Khan,I am fully aware now, after delving deep into the LK authorship of various books on the market etc.,that :1) Pt. Roop Chand Joshiji himself NEVER wrote any book on the subject,neither did he leave ANY diary/notes etc., but

some of his " more loyal than the king " disciples published their own notes (as per your site),as some kind of " original Lal Kitab " ...and have profitted out of it...(which I do not grudge them)...but trying

to parrot his sayings and making out these sometimes distorted sayings as their own versions as " the gospel truth " , was what I objected to right from the begining of this long seemingly unending debate...mainly due to misplaced loyalty...AND I STILL HAVE

RESERVATIONS ABOUT...2) As per the admission of some of your own members, there are reportedly atleast 4 to 5 different English versions of Lal Kitab on the Market... " each claiming to be more authentic than the

other " ...under the circumstances I had ORIGINALLY asked " What is the Rationale for the predictions and remedies given in Lak Kitab ? " ...WHICH SEEMS TO HAVE GOT THE GOAT...OF MANY OF YOUR MEMBERS

INCLUDING YOU YOURSELF...3) Under the above facts do you still want to debate with me about the authenticity of Lal Kitab,so severely damaged by the SEER's followers,as claimed by them...4) Which of the above facts do you refute ? And with

what evidence ?5) If so...I'LL TAKE YOU ON...NOW...6) Your Umesh Sharma asked me for my actual date of Birth Time of Birth and Place of Birth...so far he has not told me convincingly as to WHY...7) Another member tried to impress me with his big

7-figure salary...as if that alone qualifies him to be an EXPERT ON LAL KITAB and pontificate on a subject he himself doesn't know well...?8) Another questioned me on my proficiency in Traditional astrology although I have always maintained that I

practise K.P.9) Now you have put up some " tenderfoot " caling herself Savitha,to question my knowledge of K.P. Astrology... !10) When things got too hot for you you quickly appointed Umesh Sharma as Editor,and went on " study leave " ?...is

this some sort of family-run type " I'll pat your back,you pat mine " consiortium a conning network at work ?11) To cut matters short,WHICH OF THE THREE FACTS STATED ABOVE DO YOU REFUTE ? I AM READY TO TAKE YOU ON...NOW...

12) Your self-appointed representative/advocate Savitha is welcome to discuss or better still " Learn " K.P. from me, I am willing to teach her free of cost...provided she knows and understands the basics of Hindu Astrology...In the meanwhile she can

spend her time reading my articles/case-studies in the Magazine K.P. & Astrology...In the meanwhile,Rajni,please spend your time reading well to prepare for your proposed debate...!Best wishes,

L.Y.Rao. >> Dear Mr. Rao, > > > > Have I been really impolite? In my mails, never nor can be. I guess you have> confused everyone to be a part of a big group and are criticizing

them all> in one go. For the record, I have not done any impoliteness to you. > > > > The rationale was explained to you many times. You choose to ignore it or> this is how I and perhaps understand.

> > > > Asking a question like this is asking too much. What is the rationale of> astrology itself?> > > > There is a logic in LK. You are free to embrace it or not embrace

it. > > > > Imagine the same question - what is the logic to KP? You will give the> explanations. May be they are not valid enough for me.> > > > You say that every one has run away. No one has run away. I have

been> keeping quiet as it is no use debating the issue with you as you have not> taken the discussion further than what is the rationale of LK. As mentioned> earlier, what is the rationale of astrology?

> > > > My view is that astrology is a method devised by human beings to tackle the> unknown of which most human beings are scared. > > > > Whatever will help us to alleviate this fear, is good enough for

us. > > > > I am still willing to debate this issue with you (not run away) provided we> can move step by step. > > > > For me and many others, LK works. As simple as that. LK itself does

not> offer much explanation. It says, if this is so, do it. That's it. At least> most of the times. I am no great LK expert myself. For instance, Rahu in> 11th (what is the rationale of Rahu & Ketu I wonder? Fictious

planets) - if> the native wears a police uniform when he does not belong to police> department, he will be behind bars in no time. This is what LK says. Now> what can be the rationale to this? LK has no answer, we can only

make> conjectures. But LK works.> > > > To add fuel to fire: You can ask what is the logic of varshphal? To my best> knowledge, I know of no one who can answer this. We just use it. It

works> that's all. > > > > > > lalkitab

> [lalkitab ] On Behalf Of L.Y.Rao.> Thursday, May 01, 2008 21:08

> lalkitab > [lalkitab] Re: Mr. L Y Rao's views - a little

sanity> please> > > > Dear Savitha,> Thank you for joining in...> Allow me to remind you that this entire series of > stern and severely critical replies by me,was begun by some

extremely > impolite replies to my queries by the then editor Rajni Khan and in > particular by Yograj...Kindly read their replies first and then write > back...Yograj also tried to impress me by saying that he was

earning > a 7-figure salary...! ?> Secondly,I am a member of only the K.P. Astrology > Group,and have been involved in research in K.P.,and it was by sheer > chance that I logged on to this site and read the claims made about

> LK and it's " remedies " ...by some of the followers of LK.( By the > way,I have a lot of friends who repose their faith in LK remedies...> I asked all of them if there was any literature

> written by the Great SEER himself...and asked them a simple > query...IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR LK PREDICTIONS & REMEDIES....? If > so,what ? > I also asked them... " since you all strongly believe

> in the Karma theory,every thing is predestined...How can remedies > help at all ? " > THAT STARTED IT ALL...I HAD LET LOOSE A BEE IN THEIR > HATS...IT SEEMED...> Then Umesh Sharma,as a rejoinder asked me the

> rationale of the Vimshottari Dasa...which I provided them with > promptly TO THEIR GREAT CHAGRIN...it now appears...since then, they > became hostile...because it was their turn to provide a rationale

for > LK... Hostility they thought would make me back off...BUT I DID > NOT...EVERYBODY THEN RAN TO THEIR RESCUE...WITH BIZARRE EXPLANATIONS, > WHICH WERE PROMPTLY DEMOLISHED...> One person asked me what is mant by TITHI...I replied

> that K.P. does not recognise or use Tithis...and that tithi is a > method of expressing the distance between the Sun and the Moon on a > particular day...and so on...> INSTEAD OF REPLYING TO MY FIRST QUERY,THEY THEN

> CONTINUED TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE... INSTEAD OF PLAINLY ADMITTING THAT > THE GREAT SEER HIMSELF HAD WRITTEN NO BOOK NOR HAD HE MADE ANY > NOTES...(WHICH FACT I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF... BUT WAS NOT VERY

> CERTAIN ABOUT...)> You seem totally silent about...the language of Mike > M's mails...you are certainly biased...> Whether people like you,Savitha,recognise me as a K.P. > Astrologer or not,I don't really care...I have studied astrology

> since 1960's...> But from whatever you have written TWO FACTS > EMERGE...ONE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THE ENTIRE CONVERSATIONS > BETWEEN ME AND YOUR FRIENDS....THE OTHER IS THAT YOU ARE STILL

> BIASED ...AND OF ALL THINGS,YOU HAVE TAKEN UMBRAGE AT MY > LANGUAGE,,,BUT ARE LOUDLY SILENT ON THE LANGUAGE USED BY YOUR FRIENDS > SUCH AS MIKE M.,AND TAKING POTSHOT AT ME BY QUESTIONING MY ABILITY

> AND PROFICIENCY AS A K.P. ASTROLOGER...BE THAT AS IT MAY...I DO NOT > NEED ANY CERTIFICATES FROM ANYBODY...NEITHER DO I HAVE...IF THAT > PLEASES YOU...> I agree with you,I certainly CAN be gentler,and AM...

> but I reserve my right to react strongly and wiftly if needlessly > provoked especially by foul language...> I gues Savitha pl. go through the entire > correspondence,and try to be FAIR...> Let me ask you,frankly...who put you up to this ?

> With best wishes,> L.Y.Rao.> > >> > I have been following this exchange avidly. While Mr. Rao could be> > gentler and non-offensive in his mannerisms, the points he raises

> can> > be discussed, not to justify anyone but for people like myself who> > would want to participate in the debate but are scared and put off > by> > the uncivilized language on occasions. (Is Mr. Rao really a senior

> > citizen?)> > > > As I could understand, the debate can be summed up as following:> > > > 1. Initially Mr. Rao questions Lal Kitab's veracity and jeers the> > followers to prove it.

> > > > 2. A flood of response from LK lovers asking Mr. Rao to keep quiet,> > get out or irrelevant responses. Few, from Rajni, Umesh (though> > keeping track of hindi in capital letters is tedious), Yograj try

to> > sanely present the case. They simply ask him to read the book and > then> > question.> > > > 3. A lot of unnecessary emails (hate). Very disturbing.> > > > 4. Mr. Rao changes tack or accepts that the LK originator Pt. Rup

> > Chandji was a seer but today's LK practioners are not in the same > league.> > > > I have not read the book. My interest is in solutions. The right> > solution ofcourse. When this topic opened up, I was eager to know

> all> > sides of the arguments. Sadly, as this becomes a fight amongst the> > professional astrolgers, which was not needed.> > > > As a user I seek solutions. I have used vedic with uncertain

> results,> > KP with questionable readings (and they do not offer any remedies) > and> > LK remedies with results (though are they due to the remedies or > just> > existence was playing a game with me).

> > > > I particularly like someone's statement in one of the forums where> > he/she said that performing LK remedies is your Karma's chance to > you> > to correct the imbalance. Not everyone gets the opportunity. This

> > statement can be true for everything including medicine.> > > > My request: Can the parties involved be polite and discuss the issue> > here. If you choose to disagree, then you can continue to be

> > participant with your views as those views add to the global> > knowledge. Hopefully we will be able to invite others to join the> > debate and share their experiences - rewarding as well as

> > disappointing. Do we want to put them away?> > > > I am confused. If Mr. Rao is as elder as he claims and if he > practices> > KP then he cannot use such language or even if he can, he will

> > certainly refrain from so. Is it a KP professional astrolger who has> > been hurt by LK's fan following? I do not see Mr. Rao participating > in> > other forums - either he is not a member there or he is banned

from> > there. Whatever!> > > > Neverthless, we still can be civil and stick to the agenda. At least> > we can try.> >>

May 3, 2008

Respected rajni ji, there is no end to such questions.

why do traditional astrology takes mangal karak for brother, venus for spouse etc, is there any rational, did the planets speak that i am karak of such and such objects, where is the position of earth in kundali; the list is endless. when such concepts are accepted without any fus . what is the problem about lakitab. u r indeed right can any body explain the rational of astrology in one reply.

rao sir is still not ready to accept that lalkitab 5 editions were published by pt ji. first he says they were written after his death, now he is side tracking the issue. lets settle this issue on priority, please ask him what type of proof he needs. it is our moral duty to bring the truth before him. he doesn't understands my language, please ask him on my behalf as to what proof does he have to deny the authorship and what type of proof can satisfy him.

sincerely

kulbirbance

On 5/1/08, Rajni Khan <rajni.khan wrote:

Dear Mr. Rao,

Have I been really impolite? In my mails, never nor can be. I guess you have confused everyone to be a part of a big group and are criticizing them all in one go. For the record, I have not done any impoliteness to you.

The rationale was explained to you many times. You choose to ignore it or this is how I and perhaps understand.

Asking a question like this is asking too much. What is the rationale of astrology itself?

There is a logic in LK. You are free to embrace it or not embrace it.

Imagine the same question – what is the logic to KP? You will give the explanations. May be they are not valid enough for me.

You say that every one has run away. No one has run away. I have been keeping quiet as it is no use debating the issue with you as you have not taken the discussion further than what is the rationale of LK. As mentioned earlier, what is the rationale of astrology?

My view is that astrology is a method devised by human beings to tackle the unknown of which most human beings are scared.

Whatever will help us to alleviate this fear, is good enough for us.

I am still willing to debate this issue with you (not run away) provided we can move step by step.

For me and many others, LK works. As simple as that. LK itself does not offer much explanation. It says, if this is so, do it. That's it. At least most of the times. I am no great LK expert myself. For instance, Rahu in 11th (what is the rationale of Rahu & Ketu I wonder? Fictious planets) – if the native wears a police uniform when he does not belong to police department, he will be behind bars in no time. This is what LK says. Now what can be the rationale to this? LK has no answer, we can only make conjectures. But LK works.

To add fuel to fire: You can ask what is the logic of varshphal? To my best knowledge, I know of no one who can answer this. We just use it. It works that's all.

lalkitab [lalkitab ] On Behalf Of L.Y.Rao.

Thursday, May 01, 2008 21:08lalkitab Subject: [lalkitab] Re: Mr. L Y Rao's views - a little sanity please