A matter of perception! Without prejudice :-)

[Guest guest]

Dear Rohini,

 

First may I emphasise the 'Without prejudice' added to the subject line :-)

It is NOT my intention to take you to task...simply to clarify my meaning

behind the term 'False Teacher' as I seemed to have failed miserably so far.

(after two attempts)

 

" Quote " A paradox is defined as a statement that is seemingly contradictory

or opposed to common sense and is yet perhaps true. The trick is to discover

that truth, for it is there that revelation can be experienced. " Unquote "

 

(I emphasise seemingly!)

 

Juxtapose = To place side by side (especially) for comparison or contrast...

 

" Quote " For a memory trick, note how juxtapose sounds like " just suppose. "

Now, imagine you wanted to paint a wall and you asked your roommate to " just

suppose we painted the wall this color green or this color blue " and

swatches of each color were juxtaposed (presented side by side) on the wall

for your roommate to consider. " Unquote "

 

It seems to me that you're labelling the term 'false teacher' in a way that

is meant to categorically deny any possible relevance between the two terms

i.e. teacher and false...or have I misinterpreted your intention? (as I

seemed to misinterpret the earlier facetiousness)

 

'False Teacher' seems to me an apt description of one engaged in spreading a

falsified/misinterpreted version of (any) branch of knowledge...

Labelling the expression 'False Teacher' as an oxymoron *could be construed

as an attempt to disparage its use by drawing attention to a perceived

inherent contradiction and thus claiming it to be nonsensical...*

 

*Quote - Unquote*

 

The fact is, Rohini; You (I'm sure) understood the meaning I wished to

convey, but chose to disparage that by labelling it an oxymoron and

therefore false.

 

Among the many (so-called) oxymorons commonly used, yet PERFECTLY UNDERSTOOD

by most are:

 

Expect the unexpected....

I've used this many times in relation to Ketu.

 

Same difference...

who hasn't used this over and over again.

 

Alone together...

now surely we all understand the intention behind this.

 

Deafening silence...

this explodes with underlying meaning.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

jyotish-vidya

___

 

 

-

" Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan

<jyotish-vidya >

Monday, February 11, 2008 8:03 AM

Re: A matter of perception!

 

 

Wendy,

 

Two examples of oxymorons (paradoxical juxtapositions, a chimera that

cannot exist):

 

False Teacher

 

Gentle Dictator

 

Namastay :-)

 

Rohiniranjan

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

Thanks for taking the time and devoting so much attention and energy

to this thread and to the few words I wrote!

 

The point I was making was:

 

False and Teacher cannot co-exist

As cannot Gentle and Dictator two adjectives applied to one and the

same person!

 

Hence labeled as oxymoronic.

 

The teacher loses his/her status as a teacher when falsehood creeps

in as the world has seen in so many money grabbing mahatmas and

saints!

 

I will leave the " gentle dicator' to your imagination! You have been

around and are wise and will figure it out!

 

Namastay!

 

Rohiniranjan

 

jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek "

<jyotishvidya wrote:

>

> Dear Rohini,

>

> First may I emphasise the 'Without prejudice' added to the subject

line :-)

> It is NOT my intention to take you to task...simply to clarify my

meaning

> behind the term 'False Teacher' as I seemed to have failed

miserably so far.

> (after two attempts)

>

> " Quote " A paradox is defined as a statement that is seemingly

contradictory

> or opposed to common sense and is yet perhaps true. The trick is to

discover

> that truth, for it is there that revelation can be

experienced. " Unquote "

>

> (I emphasise seemingly!)

>

> Juxtapose = To place side by side (especially) for comparison or

contrast...

>

> " Quote " For a memory trick, note how juxtapose sounds like " just

suppose. "

> Now, imagine you wanted to paint a wall and you asked your roommate

to " just

> suppose we painted the wall this color green or this color blue "

and

> swatches of each color were juxtaposed (presented side by side) on

the wall

> for your roommate to consider. " Unquote "

>

> It seems to me that you're labelling the term 'false teacher' in a

way that

> is meant to categorically deny any possible relevance between the

two terms

> i.e. teacher and false...or have I misinterpreted your intention?

(as I

> seemed to misinterpret the earlier facetiousness)

>

> 'False Teacher' seems to me an apt description of one engaged in

spreading a

> falsified/misinterpreted version of (any) branch of knowledge...

> Labelling the expression 'False Teacher' as an oxymoron *could be

construed

> as an attempt to disparage its use by drawing attention to a

perceived

> inherent contradiction and thus claiming it to be nonsensical...*

>

> *Quote - Unquote*

>

> The fact is, Rohini; You (I'm sure) understood the meaning I wished

to

> convey, but chose to disparage that by labelling it an oxymoron and

> therefore false.

>

> Among the many (so-called) oxymorons commonly used, yet PERFECTLY

UNDERSTOOD

> by most are:

>

> Expect the unexpected....

> I've used this many times in relation to Ketu.

>

> Same difference...

> who hasn't used this over and over again.

>

> Alone together...

> now surely we all understand the intention behind this.

>

> Deafening silence...

> this explodes with underlying meaning.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> jyotish-vidya

> ___

>

>

> -

> " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan

> <jyotish-vidya >

> Monday, February 11, 2008 8:03 AM

> Re: A matter of perception!

>

>

> Wendy,

>

> Two examples of oxymorons (paradoxical juxtapositions, a chimera

that

> cannot exist):

>

> False Teacher

>

> Gentle Dictator

>

> Namastay :-)

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

[Guest guest]

// There are four categories of gurus: a false

guru, guru, Sadguru, and Paramguru...*

 

In the same way, a teacher can be a false

teacher,or a true treacher, where the term

" false teacher " would describe the teacher

as a teacher impersonating as a true one.

 

In both above case the word

" Guru " and the word " teacher " would remain

the same, except for the adjective joint

to this word, which would make all the difference

to the meanings of both the teachers,

just like the word

" man " remains same,

but any partciular man can be described in many

ways , like a good man, a bad man,a wise man,

a foolish man, a intelligent man,

or a con man.

 

// *People generally don't understand me

(Ramsukh Das); therefore, they //

 

This reminded me of the Late Swami Ramsukhdasji

who expired a year back. A man who has

lived with Swami Ramsukhdasji most of the times

in his retreats at the Swargashram at Rishikesh,

was my wifes own Uncle,from whom we were getting

reports of the Swamiji. It is said that Swamiji

did not ever allow any person to take his photograph,

and had wished that even after

his death, no one should keep

any photo of his and worship

it, as he was strictly against worship of any

human body, except God.Which is why we will not find

any photograph of his anywhere, with anyone.

This was off the context, but okay.

 

rgrds/Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek "

<jyotishvidya wrote:

>

> Dear Rohini,

>

> Perhaps I might be indulged just a little longer before I let this

topic

> rest...

>

> Excerpt from 'Preaching Vedanta' by Swamiji Irainban:

> *What is the reason 'false gurus' survive. The whole

responsibility for this

> false identification is our own. We accept gurus just as we accept

our

> politicians...*

>

> This, of course, is precisely what I'd said in earlier mail:

> ///The fact is that certain natal afflictions CAN indeed indicate

one who is

> drawn to false (or wrong) teaching. This, of course, is the

student's karma.

> But, for this karma to be fulfilled, there needs to be false

teachers to

> bring it to fruition.///

>

> From the subtlest level, we ourselves create/sustain whatever is

necessary

> in order to fulfil our karma...is this not so :-)

>

> By Swami Ramsukh Das ji Maharaj of Gita Press, Gorakhpur:

> *People generally don't understand me (Ramsukh Das); therefore,

they

> misunderstand my views on Guru. I am not against a real guru.

Without a guru

> (teacher) no knowledge is ever possible, then how can anybody be

against

> guru? I am against false gurus or the so called Guruvaad, the guru

cult.

> Nobody can describe the importance of a guru, but these days real

gurus are

> hard to find and there is an abundant of false gurus...

> There are four categories of gurus: a false guru, guru, Sadguru,

and Param

> guru...*

>

> The Bible: 2 Peter 2:1

> *But there were false prophets also among the people, even as

there shall be

> false teachers among you......

> 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom

the way

> of truth shall be evil spoken of.*

>

> So, it would seem, the term 'false teacher' has been in use for a

very long

> time. (from the inception of the Bible, at least)

>

> But I will leave you in peace now and talk no more of this...

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> jyotish-vidya

> ___

>

>

> -

> " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan

> <jyotish-vidya >

> Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:23 PM

> Re: A matter of perception! Without

prejudice :-)

>

>

> Dear Wendy,

>

> Thanks for taking the time and devoting so much attention and

energy

> to this thread and to the few words I wrote!

>

> The point I was making was:

>

> False and Teacher cannot co-exist

> As cannot Gentle and Dictator two adjectives applied to one and the

> same person!

>

> Hence labeled as oxymoronic.

>

> The teacher loses his/her status as a teacher when falsehood creeps

> in as the world has seen in so many money grabbing mahatmas and

> saints!

>

> I will leave the " gentle dicator' to your imagination! You have

been

> around and are wise and will figure it out!

>

> Namastay!

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar,

 

Since this is your first post in this thread on this topic, it would

be discourteous of me to not respond, hence I submit the following

for your consideration.

 

The 'false teacher' that Wendy and you are describing is of course a

rogue, a con-man and there seems to be a plethora of those in these

sad times!

 

I was calling the term an oxymoron, but perhaps the term should be

called a misclassification. This false teacher that you folks are

describing can be readily sent to jail and let us focus on the other

phenomenon that also exists.

 

This is the situation where a student does not get matched to the

right teacher and either due to improper preparation or readiness

does not 'click' with the teacher and gets disillusioned.

 

Even with otherwise proclaimed and truly saints and mahatmas,

acolytes join the ashram or group or gurukool and soon find out that

the match was not good and move out. Some of these students get

disillusioned with the whole process and one way or the other, such

a " falling out " happens. The guru may not be false as the con-man you

and Wendy were describing and quoting from scriptures about.

 

The disillusioned student thinks that the Guru was 'false' (to

varying degrees) but the Guru was in reality not false, just not the

one for this student (the sadguru as you described I suppose).

 

Let us not waste time with the rogues and shysters (some women gurus

too -- why should we be sexist!). They are not teachers, but

criminals. Let us not glorify them by calling them teachers, false or

whatever!

 

Rohiniranjan

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> // There are four categories of gurus: a false

> guru, guru, Sadguru, and Paramguru...*

>

> In the same way, a teacher can be a false

> teacher,or a true treacher, where the term

> " false teacher " would describe the teacher

> as a teacher impersonating as a true one.

>

> In both above case the word

> " Guru " and the word " teacher " would remain

> the same, except for the adjective joint

> to this word, which would make all the difference

> to the meanings of both the teachers,

> just like the word

> " man " remains same,

> but any partciular man can be described in many

> ways , like a good man, a bad man,a wise man,

> a foolish man, a intelligent man,

> or a con man.

>

> // *People generally don't understand me

> (Ramsukh Das); therefore, they //

>

> This reminded me of the Late Swami Ramsukhdasji

> who expired a year back. A man who has

> lived with Swami Ramsukhdasji most of the times

> in his retreats at the Swargashram at Rishikesh,

> was my wifes own Uncle,from whom we were getting

> reports of the Swamiji. It is said that Swamiji

> did not ever allow any person to take his photograph,

> and had wished that even after

> his death, no one should keep

> any photo of his and worship

> it, as he was strictly against worship of any

> human body, except God.Which is why we will not find

> any photograph of his anywhere, with anyone.

> This was off the context, but okay.

>

> rgrds/Bhaskar.

>

>

>

>

> jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek "

> <jyotishvidya@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Rohini,

> >

> > Perhaps I might be indulged just a little longer before I let

this

> topic

> > rest...

> >

> > Excerpt from 'Preaching Vedanta' by Swamiji Irainban:

> > *What is the reason 'false gurus' survive. The whole

> responsibility for this

> > false identification is our own. We accept gurus just as we

accept

> our

> > politicians...*

> >

> > This, of course, is precisely what I'd said in earlier mail:

> > ///The fact is that certain natal afflictions CAN indeed indicate

> one who is

> > drawn to false (or wrong) teaching. This, of course, is the

> student's karma.

> > But, for this karma to be fulfilled, there needs to be false

> teachers to

> > bring it to fruition.///

> >

> > From the subtlest level, we ourselves create/sustain whatever is

> necessary

> > in order to fulfil our karma...is this not so :-)

> >

> > By Swami Ramsukh Das ji Maharaj of Gita Press, Gorakhpur:

> > *People generally don't understand me (Ramsukh Das); therefore,

> they

> > misunderstand my views on Guru. I am not against a real guru.

> Without a guru

> > (teacher) no knowledge is ever possible, then how can anybody be

> against

> > guru? I am against false gurus or the so called Guruvaad, the

guru

> cult.

> > Nobody can describe the importance of a guru, but these days real

> gurus are

> > hard to find and there is an abundant of false gurus...

> > There are four categories of gurus: a false guru, guru, Sadguru,

> and Param

> > guru...*

> >

> > The Bible: 2 Peter 2:1

> > *But there were false prophets also among the people, even as

> there shall be

> > false teachers among you......

> > 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom

> the way

> > of truth shall be evil spoken of.*

> >

> > So, it would seem, the term 'false teacher' has been in use for a

> very long

> > time. (from the inception of the Bible, at least)

> >

> > But I will leave you in peace now and talk no more of this...

> >

> > Best Wishes,

> > Mrs. Wendy

> > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > jyotish-vidya

> > ___

> >

> >

> > -

> > " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@>

> > <jyotish-vidya >

> > Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:23 PM

> > Re: A matter of perception! Without

> prejudice :-)

> >

> >

> > Dear Wendy,

> >

> > Thanks for taking the time and devoting so much attention and

> energy

> > to this thread and to the few words I wrote!

> >

> > The point I was making was:

> >

> > False and Teacher cannot co-exist

> > As cannot Gentle and Dictator two adjectives applied to one and

the

> > same person!

> >

> > Hence labeled as oxymoronic.

> >

> > The teacher loses his/her status as a teacher when falsehood

creeps

> > in as the world has seen in so many money grabbing mahatmas and

> > saints!

> >

> > I will leave the " gentle dicator' to your imagination! You have

> been

> > around and are wise and will figure it out!

> >

> > Namastay!

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wendy,

 

I was expecting for you to post this 'flavour' ;-)

 

Yes, in pedantic grammatical sense, teacher is a noun (a

qualification/expression that a human being plays during a lifetime)

but does it not describe a quality of the individual soul as well?

Adjectives are the sheaths and expressions/qualities that the human

soul presents itself (still remaining human soul = noun/entity) as!

 

Since english is not my mother tongue, perhaps I have more

flexibility there :-)

 

I am glad that you figured out where I am coming from...

 

The recognition has been mutual!! ;-)

 

Rohiniranjan

 

jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek "

<jyotishvidya wrote:

>

> Dear Rohini,

>

> ///False and Teacher cannot co-exist

> As cannot Gentle and Dictator two adjectives applied to one and the

> same person!///

>

> Ahhh! Now I see where you're coming from :-))

>

> Actually, the word 'Teacher' is a noun whereas 'False' is an

adjective. We

> use ADJECTIVES to describe a noun.

>

> As in; The FAT cat, the YELLOW dress, the BRILLIANT engineer, the

KIND

> priest, the ABSENT-MINDED professor, the FALSE teacher etc, etc..

>

> Likewise; The CRUEL dictator, the FAT dictator, the MAD dictator,

the GENTLE

> dictator and so on...

>

> A noun is the name of a person, place, thing, or idea. Whatever

exists, we

> assume, can be named, and that name is a noun.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> jyotish-vidya

> ___

>

>

> -

> " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan

> <jyotish-vidya >

> Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:23 PM

> Re: A matter of perception! Without

prejudice :-)

>

>

> Dear Wendy,

>

> Thanks for taking the time and devoting so much attention and energy

> to this thread and to the few words I wrote!

>

> The point I was making was:

>

> False and Teacher cannot co-exist

> As cannot Gentle and Dictator two adjectives applied to one and the

> same person!

>

> Hence labeled as oxymoronic.

>

> The teacher loses his/her status as a teacher when falsehood creeps

> in as the world has seen in so many money grabbing mahatmas and

> saints!

>

> I will leave the " gentle dicator' to your imagination! You have been

> around and are wise and will figure it out!

>

> Namastay!

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rohiniji,

 

On retrospection,I should not have entered

this thread, because you are one of the

finest users of the English language,

on these Forums, with a wit, unmatcheable,

and the end result of your literary

expositions, is almost incomprehensible

to the general lot, among whom

I too stand. The subject matter of this

thread kept aside, I do admire your

liberal sprinkling of terms which

at times, people like me, would need a

dictionary to pick up and comprehend

the meaning.

 

I apologise if my last mail, in any

manner gives a impression of

donning a English Teachers garb, which

of course was never intended to be I

know you and Mrs. Wendy,

are the best here on these

Forums on effective use of this

language. I was just attempting to

bring the level of the thread, lower

to my level, thats all.

 

I bow out of this thread, most humbly,

 

Yours, sincerely,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya , " Rohiniranjan "

<rohini_ranjan wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

>

> Since this is your first post in this thread on this topic, it

would

> be discourteous of me to not respond, hence I submit the following

> for your consideration.

>

> The 'false teacher' that Wendy and you are describing is of course

a

> rogue, a con-man and there seems to be a plethora of those in

these

> sad times!

>

> I was calling the term an oxymoron, but perhaps the term should be

> called a misclassification. This false teacher that you folks are

> describing can be readily sent to jail and let us focus on the

other

> phenomenon that also exists.

>

> This is the situation where a student does not get matched to the

> right teacher and either due to improper preparation or readiness

> does not 'click' with the teacher and gets disillusioned.

>

> Even with otherwise proclaimed and truly saints and mahatmas,

> acolytes join the ashram or group or gurukool and soon find out

that

> the match was not good and move out. Some of these students get

> disillusioned with the whole process and one way or the other,

such

> a " falling out " happens. The guru may not be false as the con-man

you

> and Wendy were describing and quoting from scriptures about.

>

> The disillusioned student thinks that the Guru was 'false' (to

> varying degrees) but the Guru was in reality not false, just not

the

> one for this student (the sadguru as you described I suppose).

>

> Let us not waste time with the rogues and shysters (some women

gurus

> too -- why should we be sexist!). They are not teachers, but

> criminals. Let us not glorify them by calling them teachers, false

or

> whatever!

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

>

>

> jyotish-vidya , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > // There are four categories of gurus: a false

> > guru, guru, Sadguru, and Paramguru...*

> >

> > In the same way, a teacher can be a false

> > teacher,or a true treacher, where the term

> > " false teacher " would describe the teacher

> > as a teacher impersonating as a true one.

> >

> > In both above case the word

> > " Guru " and the word " teacher " would remain

> > the same, except for the adjective joint

> > to this word, which would make all the difference

> > to the meanings of both the teachers,

> > just like the word

> > " man " remains same,

> > but any partciular man can be described in many

> > ways , like a good man, a bad man,a wise man,

> > a foolish man, a intelligent man,

> > or a con man.

> >

> > // *People generally don't understand me

> > (Ramsukh Das); therefore, they //

> >

> > This reminded me of the Late Swami Ramsukhdasji

> > who expired a year back. A man who has

> > lived with Swami Ramsukhdasji most of the times

> > in his retreats at the Swargashram at Rishikesh,

> > was my wifes own Uncle,from whom we were getting

> > reports of the Swamiji. It is said that Swamiji

> > did not ever allow any person to take his photograph,

> > and had wished that even after

> > his death, no one should keep

> > any photo of his and worship

> > it, as he was strictly against worship of any

> > human body, except God.Which is why we will not find

> > any photograph of his anywhere, with anyone.

> > This was off the context, but okay.

> >

> > rgrds/Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek "

> > <jyotishvidya@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rohini,

> > >

> > > Perhaps I might be indulged just a little longer before I let

> this

> > topic

> > > rest...

> > >

> > > Excerpt from 'Preaching Vedanta' by Swamiji Irainban:

> > > *What is the reason 'false gurus' survive. The whole

> > responsibility for this

> > > false identification is our own. We accept gurus just as we

> accept

> > our

> > > politicians...*

> > >

> > > This, of course, is precisely what I'd said in earlier mail:

> > > ///The fact is that certain natal afflictions CAN indeed

indicate

> > one who is

> > > drawn to false (or wrong) teaching. This, of course, is the

> > student's karma.

> > > But, for this karma to be fulfilled, there needs to be false

> > teachers to

> > > bring it to fruition.///

> > >

> > > From the subtlest level, we ourselves create/sustain whatever

is

> > necessary

> > > in order to fulfil our karma...is this not so :-)

> > >

> > > By Swami Ramsukh Das ji Maharaj of Gita Press, Gorakhpur:

> > > *People generally don't understand me (Ramsukh Das);

therefore,

> > they

> > > misunderstand my views on Guru. I am not against a real guru.

> > Without a guru

> > > (teacher) no knowledge is ever possible, then how can anybody

be

> > against

> > > guru? I am against false gurus or the so called Guruvaad, the

> guru

> > cult.

> > > Nobody can describe the importance of a guru, but these days

real

> > gurus are

> > > hard to find and there is an abundant of false gurus...

> > > There are four categories of gurus: a false guru, guru,

Sadguru,

> > and Param

> > > guru...*

> > >

> > > The Bible: 2 Peter 2:1

> > > *But there were false prophets also among the people, even as

> > there shall be

> > > false teachers among you......

> > > 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of

whom

> > the way

> > > of truth shall be evil spoken of.*

> > >

> > > So, it would seem, the term 'false teacher' has been in use

for a

> > very long

> > > time. (from the inception of the Bible, at least)

> > >

> > > But I will leave you in peace now and talk no more of this...

> > >

> > > Best Wishes,

> > > Mrs. Wendy

> > > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > > jyotish-vidya

> > > ___

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@>

> > > <jyotish-vidya >

> > > Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:23 PM

> > > Re: A matter of perception! Without

> > prejudice :-)

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Wendy,

> > >

> > > Thanks for taking the time and devoting so much attention and

> > energy

> > > to this thread and to the few words I wrote!

> > >

> > > The point I was making was:

> > >

> > > False and Teacher cannot co-exist

> > > As cannot Gentle and Dictator two adjectives applied to one

and

> the

> > > same person!

> > >

> > > Hence labeled as oxymoronic.

> > >

> > > The teacher loses his/her status as a teacher when falsehood

> creeps

> > > in as the world has seen in so many money grabbing mahatmas and

> > > saints!

> > >

> > > I will leave the " gentle dicator' to your imagination! You

have

> > been

> > > around and are wise and will figure it out!

> > >

> > > Namastay!

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar,

 

As publicly stated by me on many a fora many a times, HINDI(not even

bangla as some assume) is my mother tongue having grown up in madhya

pradesh and then Varanasi for some years!

 

I did not mean at all that you were trying to teach me english or

anything else for that matter! My apologies if I somehow gave you

that false impression (and that is not an oxymoron! I can explain and

describe for what it is worth!!)

 

Please do contribute without reservations, as I am sure our kind

hostess Wendy Didi would affirm, we all are allowed to...

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Rohiniji,

>

> On retrospection,I should not have entered

> this thread, because you are one of the

> finest users of the English language,

> on these Forums, with a wit, unmatcheable,

> and the end result of your literary

> expositions, is almost incomprehensible

> to the general lot, among whom

> I too stand. The subject matter of this

> thread kept aside, I do admire your

> liberal sprinkling of terms which

> at times, people like me, would need a

> dictionary to pick up and comprehend

> the meaning.

>

> I apologise if my last mail, in any

> manner gives a impression of

> donning a English Teachers garb, which

> of course was never intended to be I

> know you and Mrs. Wendy,

> are the best here on these

> Forums on effective use of this

> language. I was just attempting to

> bring the level of the thread, lower

> to my level, thats all.

>

> I bow out of this thread, most humbly,

>

> Yours, sincerely,

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

>

>

> jyotish-vidya , " Rohiniranjan "

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar,

> >

> > Since this is your first post in this thread on this topic, it

> would

> > be discourteous of me to not respond, hence I submit the

following

> > for your consideration.

> >

> > The 'false teacher' that Wendy and you are describing is of

course

> a

> > rogue, a con-man and there seems to be a plethora of those in

> these

> > sad times!

> >

> > I was calling the term an oxymoron, but perhaps the term should

be

> > called a misclassification. This false teacher that you folks are

> > describing can be readily sent to jail and let us focus on the

> other

> > phenomenon that also exists.

> >

> > This is the situation where a student does not get matched to the

> > right teacher and either due to improper preparation or readiness

> > does not 'click' with the teacher and gets disillusioned.

> >

> > Even with otherwise proclaimed and truly saints and mahatmas,

> > acolytes join the ashram or group or gurukool and soon find out

> that

> > the match was not good and move out. Some of these students get

> > disillusioned with the whole process and one way or the other,

> such

> > a " falling out " happens. The guru may not be false as the con-man

> you

> > and Wendy were describing and quoting from scriptures about.

> >

> > The disillusioned student thinks that the Guru was 'false' (to

> > varying degrees) but the Guru was in reality not false, just not

> the

> > one for this student (the sadguru as you described I suppose).

> >

> > Let us not waste time with the rogues and shysters (some women

> gurus

> > too -- why should we be sexist!). They are not teachers, but

> > criminals. Let us not glorify them by calling them teachers,

false

> or

> > whatever!

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> >

> >

> > jyotish-vidya , " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > // There are four categories of gurus: a false

> > > guru, guru, Sadguru, and Paramguru...*

> > >

> > > In the same way, a teacher can be a false

> > > teacher,or a true treacher, where the term

> > > " false teacher " would describe the teacher

> > > as a teacher impersonating as a true one.

> > >

> > > In both above case the word

> > > " Guru " and the word " teacher " would remain

> > > the same, except for the adjective joint

> > > to this word, which would make all the difference

> > > to the meanings of both the teachers,

> > > just like the word

> > > " man " remains same,

> > > but any partciular man can be described in many

> > > ways , like a good man, a bad man,a wise man,

> > > a foolish man, a intelligent man,

> > > or a con man.

> > >

> > > // *People generally don't understand me

> > > (Ramsukh Das); therefore, they //

> > >

> > > This reminded me of the Late Swami Ramsukhdasji

> > > who expired a year back. A man who has

> > > lived with Swami Ramsukhdasji most of the times

> > > in his retreats at the Swargashram at Rishikesh,

> > > was my wifes own Uncle,from whom we were getting

> > > reports of the Swamiji. It is said that Swamiji

> > > did not ever allow any person to take his photograph,

> > > and had wished that even after

> > > his death, no one should keep

> > > any photo of his and worship

> > > it, as he was strictly against worship of any

> > > human body, except God.Which is why we will not find

> > > any photograph of his anywhere, with anyone.

> > > This was off the context, but okay.

> > >

> > > rgrds/Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek "

> > > <jyotishvidya@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rohini,

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps I might be indulged just a little longer before I let

> > this

> > > topic

> > > > rest...

> > > >

> > > > Excerpt from 'Preaching Vedanta' by Swamiji Irainban:

> > > > *What is the reason 'false gurus' survive. The whole

> > > responsibility for this

> > > > false identification is our own. We accept gurus just as we

> > accept

> > > our

> > > > politicians...*

> > > >

> > > > This, of course, is precisely what I'd said in earlier mail:

> > > > ///The fact is that certain natal afflictions CAN indeed

> indicate

> > > one who is

> > > > drawn to false (or wrong) teaching. This, of course, is the

> > > student's karma.

> > > > But, for this karma to be fulfilled, there needs to be false

> > > teachers to

> > > > bring it to fruition.///

> > > >

> > > > From the subtlest level, we ourselves create/sustain whatever

> is

> > > necessary

> > > > in order to fulfil our karma...is this not so :-)

> > > >

> > > > By Swami Ramsukh Das ji Maharaj of Gita Press, Gorakhpur:

> > > > *People generally don't understand me (Ramsukh Das);

> therefore,

> > > they

> > > > misunderstand my views on Guru. I am not against a real guru.

> > > Without a guru

> > > > (teacher) no knowledge is ever possible, then how can anybody

> be

> > > against

> > > > guru? I am against false gurus or the so called Guruvaad, the

> > guru

> > > cult.

> > > > Nobody can describe the importance of a guru, but these days

> real

> > > gurus are

> > > > hard to find and there is an abundant of false gurus...

> > > > There are four categories of gurus: a false guru, guru,

> Sadguru,

> > > and Param

> > > > guru...*

> > > >

> > > > The Bible: 2 Peter 2:1

> > > > *But there were false prophets also among the people, even as

> > > there shall be

> > > > false teachers among you......

> > > > 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of

> whom

> > > the way

> > > > of truth shall be evil spoken of.*

> > > >

> > > > So, it would seem, the term 'false teacher' has been in use

> for a

> > > very long

> > > > time. (from the inception of the Bible, at least)

> > > >

> > > > But I will leave you in peace now and talk no more of this...

> > > >

> > > > Best Wishes,

> > > > Mrs. Wendy

> > > > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > > > jyotish-vidya

> > > > ___

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@>

> > > > <jyotish-vidya >

> > > > Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:23 PM

> > > > Re: A matter of perception! Without

> > > prejudice :-)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Wendy,

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for taking the time and devoting so much attention and

> > > energy

> > > > to this thread and to the few words I wrote!

> > > >

> > > > The point I was making was:

> > > >

> > > > False and Teacher cannot co-exist

> > > > As cannot Gentle and Dictator two adjectives applied to one

> and

> > the

> > > > same person!

> > > >

> > > > Hence labeled as oxymoronic.

> > > >

> > > > The teacher loses his/her status as a teacher when falsehood

> > creeps

> > > > in as the world has seen in so many money grabbing mahatmas

and

> > > > saints!

> > > >

> > > > I will leave the " gentle dicator' to your imagination! You

> have

> > > been

> > > > around and are wise and will figure it out!

> > > >

> > > > Namastay!

> > > >

> > > > Rohiniranjan

> > > >

> > >

> >

>