Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Please don't think I have negative feelings towards Shiva. He is my hero and I would gladly lay down my life for him. I think enough has been said. On Jun 24, 2008, at 9:39 AM, RajeevM wrote: > Dear Bhaskar ji, Vic ji > > I think you read things in big hurry. > SG is someone chatting to me from this group, dont want to say full > name. > > There were discussions on who rules what (planets etc) and so on. > and also some previous discussion on which god sits at top of divine > hierarchy. > > Some say vishnu and some say shiva. (my stance is it doesnot matter) > > Since wether i get 1 trillion dollar from vishnu or 10 trillion > dollar from > shiv, it doesnot makes any difference. > I wont be able to spend more than a billion or ten in best case > spending > splurge..!! (just an example, no emails on this, plz) > >>>> Putana, Kamsa, etc. get mukti in brahmajyoti only, unless they are >>>> unusually blessed due to being bhaktas in a past life. The >>>> bhaktas get >>>> beyond brahmajyoti, into Vaikuntha, Ayodhya, Dvaraka, Matura, >>>> Braja, >>>> Vrindaban, Govardhana, and ultimately Radha-kunda. > As long as I can leave earth gracefully, and not be pushed into the > darkest > depths of hell, i will be quite happy. > I can wait for Radha Kunda for a few more (million) life times.!! > > Again VIC note the terms like " Radha-Kunda " , these are explicit > concepts > tied to the fact that Vishu is at top. > Just know that a shavite will disagree and so will various shiv > purans, for > me its ok, who ever sits on top as looked from the eyes of above > (trillion > dollar and earth leaving statements.) > > I am sure you can dig up some shiv purans and get all the references > yourself. > You may find a lot more items for thought in the hunt. > > I am again sorry, I wont be able to directly point at references. > But you can try and you will find a lot of inspiration in books > devoted to > Shiv also. > Remember Shiv is the perfect Yogi and all Yogas flow from him as > told to > pavati and some saints. > > Even all tantra, mantra etc flew out from shiv. (again I have no > references) > Find yourself if interested. > > The Shiv related material is very interesting to read. > > Om Namah Shivay > Rajeev > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:40 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish > wrote: > >> >> Dear Rajeevji and SG (?), >> >> I hope the discussion does not lead towards >> each trying to prove which of >> these 3 is superior. We are not equipped >> to do this and neither is this desirable. >> For its clearly mentioned in the Ramayan >> what happens to a Shiv lover but a >> Ram drohi and vice versa. These 3 are the >> forms of the same Shakti and just they >> are formed to do the 3 jobs of creation, >> preservation and anhilation. >> >> there are other stories too to combat >> this one, where we can prove why Brahma >> is not worshipped in temples, but this is >> not the intent of this Forum. When Shiva >> takes name of Rama, who we all know >> is a incarnationof Vishnu, then no further >> episodes are needed from the Puranas and >> epics to prove anything. >> >> For me, I treat Shiva as elder brother of >> my father, Vishnu,and the rest of the Gods >> as family members. that way I mantain the >> decorum in my worship and Pooja, and love >> each and all. >> >> I also take name of Jesus Christ daily in >> my morning Pooja, as he is a true Son of God, >> and also because of my affninty towards >> Him due to having being brought in a >> Roman catholic school ( Don Bosco )and >> love all saints and Rishi Munis from every >> Dharma ,creed and caste. >> >> Thus I do not keep any scope or time for >> He is good, he is better, or he is superior >> etc. Life is too small, and we must spend it >> loving our Chosen Father where we have been >> given birth, and continue doing our duties. >> >> Rajeevji, I too am a Shiv Lover, by the way. >> but treat Vishnu in his form of Krishna, >> as my father, as mentioned before. >> >> best wishes, >> Bhaskar. >> >> jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya >> %40>, >> RajeevM <rajeevmundra >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Some interesting discussion. >>> >>> SG: good to know that u are a shiv bhakt.. >>> Rajeev:: bhakt .. far from it >>> SG: how do u mean >>> Rajeev:: i mean not easy to be a bhakt >>> Rajeev:: just a normal human who talks more about shiv >>> Rajeev:: nothing more >>> SG: the first step is always having faith in Shiv >>> Rajeev:: yes >>> SG: I can never have enough info on Shiv >>> Rajeev:: yes >>> Rajeev:: shiv was not as popularized as krishna >>> SG: the fight between bhrama and Vishnu as who is the leading diety >> is >>> mentioned in Shiv maha purana >>> Rajeev:: yes >>> SG: that is when Shivji came as a pillar of light,, and brahma went >> upwards >>> to see the top end of the pillar and vishnu too shape of boar to >> dig down >>> deep to find the bottom end of pillar >>> SG: neither succeeded but brahma told a lie and used a ketaki >> flower to give >>> false witness to say he say the top of the pillar >>> SG: Bhrama was cursed by shivji,, that he will never be prayed to >> by the >>> masses,, hence brahma only has 1 temple in india >>> SG: the pillar of fire is the jyotirling roop of shivji >>> Rajeev:: yes >>> SG: Vishnu's pooja only came about about less than 10,000 yrs ago >>> Rajeev:: yes >>> Rajeev:: do you have any references regarding this? >>> SG: Shivji's statues were found in Mohanjaro and Harrapa period,, >> well >>> before any written documents were ever around >>> >>> >>> >>> Om Namah Shivay >>> Rajeev >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Rajeev, >>>> >>>> Yes, you must find shastric support for your statement. I am not >>>> interested in branding. I have no interest in sectarian >> religiosity of >>>> any shape or form, Hindu or otherwise. You made a statement that >> Shiva- >>>> ji is the lord of all the planets. You made this in an >> astrological >>>> forum. So please substantiate your statement. >>>> >>>> Your attitude in this email is contrary to your previously >> expressed >>>> attitudes about the value of Guru and Sadhu. Guru and Sadhu have >>>> spoken the Vedas, they are not a microscopic or macroscopic view >> of >>>> reality - they are a complete and realized view. If you do not >> have >>>> the right attitude towards them you will not be granted access to >> the >>>> realizations they mystically hold. >>>> >>>> It is my opinion that there are various devas associated with >> various >>>> planets - and *not* that Shiva-ji is the lord of them all. Of >> couse, >>>> he IS the lord of them all, but not astrologically OR >> astronomically >>>> speaking. In my opinion astrologically each planet has it's own >>>> isthadeva and it's own representative diety. And astronomically >> each >>>> planet is a part of the virat rupa which is ultimately an >> imaginary >>>> manifestation of the Purusha, who is Visnu Tattva. >>>> >>>> Yours >>>> Vic DiCara >>>> http://www.vedicastrologer.net >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 23, 2008, at 12:18 PM, RajeevM wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Vic >>>>> >>>>> I am not sure, if I have read it somewhere or not. >>>>> But I have heard this many times at many places. >>>>> >>>>> Atleast for me it makes no difference if someone says its >> Vishnu who >>>>> is the >>>>> lord of planets. >>>>> Different branding of one product, packaged & put across as per >>>>> convenience, >>>>> donations, political pressures from time to time or favors or >>>>> necessity >>>>> received by different sects over long periods of time. >>>>> >>>>> Kindly do not miss the point, that there is a HUGE amount of >>>>> branding and >>>>> packaging in the Hindu system of religion. >>>>> and there is no brand in past which can compete with the likes >> of >>>>> Ram, Shiv >>>>> or Vishnu or Jesus and so on. >>>>> >>>>> The gods may be real as we know them, or they may be something >> very >>>>> different from what we imagine them to be. >>>>> (recall that your fingers would look very very very different >>>>> (horrifically >>>>> different) when looked under an electron microscope.) >>>>> >>>>> I am dead sure that much of what goes around as religion today, >> was >>>>> simple >>>>> mental gymnastics of various creative minds pushed to do >> something >>>>> in free >>>>> time or out of various necessity. >>>>> >>>>> I shall look up and find where I read about that regarding >> shiva. >>>>> >>>>> Om Namah Shivay >>>>> Rajeev >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 12:22 AM, Vic D >> <vicdicara<vicdicara%40gmail.com>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Rajeev, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Shiv is the lord of all planets also, from Sun to Saturn. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you support this with a quote from Sastra? I'm interested >> in it, >>>>>> since clearly in the main sense all the planets and lokas are >> aspects >>>>>> of the Virat Rupa of Vishnu (see Skanda 2 of Bhagavat Purana) >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Vic >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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