HUMBLE REPLY TO SH. PRABHAKAR

[Guest guest]

Dear Vashisht Ji,NamaskarFirst of all, your notion that I questioned your knowledge of Urdu/Persian language is grossly incorrect. I never intended to do so, rest assured. Rather I admired you for initiating the monumental task of translating the Urdu editions of Lal Kitab. If you still have any doubt on my intentions, I cant help you. But, I still request you that you must correct yourself in this regard.. Now the question of Persianized or Pakistani Urdu. The Urdu written in LK is the Urdu that was prevalent in Punjab in the 40's and 50's. This is NOT at all Persianized Urdu. Persianized Urdu is Ghalib and co's. not Pt Roop Chand jee. He wrote something that an ordinary Punjabi of the 30's, 40's and the 50's who also understood a little bit of farsi here and there will easily understand. Words like "kabootarbaazee', "Bidhata","DheePutt",

"Pudpudee", "Thamm", "Chikdee","Gitak", "Chakk Ghumaraan", "Noonh", "Toomba", "Koonjan", "Meenh", "Subbhar CholaAdhyara", "Tewa", "Tipdaa", "Mekh", "Birkh", "Bricchhak", "Jotish", "Falaahi", "Nachhattar", "Tiliyar", "Tuniya tota", "Thathiyaar", "Upaayo"and many many more are the Great examples of Punjabised Urdu. Pt ji did not write ilm-e-samudrik, he wrote ilm-samudrik which is also correct as he mixed an Urdu and a localised expression (therefore, the impressive sounding "rule" does not apply but it is good enough to try to impress someone). The same is also true about Ilm-Qyafaa.As far as your question about my qualification goes, I am not here to boast about my Degrees and Certificates. But since you insisted, I would humbly like to inform you that I am also holding two Post Graduate Diplomas (of course with distinctions) in Urdu and Urdu translation from the premier institutes of the country. I was also honored by some State

Governments and various literary organizations of India and abroad for my Urdu poetry besides Punjabi and Hindi literary works. But I am still very very lowly placed than you. Luxmi bhai, Apka dil bilkul sahi maanta hai, But I would like to clarify that I never said or believed that I am the best. Today, I admit openly through this august forum that "I AM THE WORST" and I am the biggest Jackass amongst the Lal Kitab followers. "THE BEST" was, "THE BEST" is, and "THE BEST" will always be Pundit Roop Chand Joshi jee only. Cmmon Luxmi bhai, I cannot even think of using words like Jack**** for a "scholar" like you. This word is more suitable for me rather than anyone else. I am not biased, jealous or envious of you or anybody else, My admiration for your instigation of translation work is the strong evidence of my thoughts and appreciation

regarding you, I am proud of those who are working in this field (Including your good-self). I would love to discuss anything with you face to face after all we all are working for the same cause. RegardsYograj Prabhakar--- On Tue, 16/12/08, laxmikant_vashisth <laxmikant_vashisth wrote:laxmikant_vashisth <laxmikant_vashisth[lalkitab] HUMBLE REPLY TO SH. PRABHAKARlalkitab Date: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008, 10:15 PM

 

 

Respected Parbhakarji Hello, This is the first time I am writing in this

group; probably there was no need for the same. But some of my learned friends

told me that there are some discussions going on in the group on the subject

matter of Urdu, I thought to join the discussions of the learned scholars who

might be alim, fazil, muallaim or Dukthtoors of the Urdu language. I do not want

to involve myself in the discussions of "Mausauf Siffat" or

'Izaffat" as whatsoever our learned friend Umeshji have said is correct (I

think you know better than me), the word "Ilm-Qyafa" is not a perfect

grammatical formation in Persian as far as I know. It is again Ilm-e-Qyafa

which I would like to correct my learned group mate, of course, with his due

permission. Parbhakarji as

regards to your phrase "Punjabi Urdu" I do not know there is any form of Urdu

being taught in India. Yes, Pakistani Urdu is being taught in India and if you

want I can provide addresses of the esteemed institutions. The work "Greek to

someone" does not refer to any language but it is a proverb which is used in

expressing while using the idiomatic expressions that "the test is above my

comprehension" . I stand by Umesh ji for using this word. Please correct

yourself.

 

Prabhakar ji,

my basic purpose of writing this mail was that you have questioned my knowledge

of Urdu Persian and Arabic. I wish, this need may arise. For your kind

information I humbly submit that a central University, has conferred a degree

on me with this effect, of course, with distinction. In addition to that I have

passed out the examination to get a job in govt. of India as translator of

foreign languages (Persian and Arabic). I do not think that after all that I

would need any conformation in this regard from any tom dick and harry. May I

know about your qualifications of Urdu and Persian as your have commented on my

knowledge. (Perhaps you are better placed than me). As regards to your contention that "I am a

jack ---------" , I would like to

enlighten you that only God is perfect. I am not here to compete with anyone,

as astrology is more like a passion to me then a business. Therefore, the

question as to who is better hardly arises. My work would only be judged by my

readers and not like you people who are biased.

Good authors are those who respect others work and beget respect from

others. I would have really appreciated your comments had you discussed them

with me face to face. In the end I would

like to advise you not to be envious of your friends but to encourage them. I

hope good sense will prevail on you. You think you are

the best but " dil hai ke manta nahin". I will wait for your reply. God bless you Thanks/regards Laxmi Kant Vashisth

 

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[Guest guest]

Res. Yograj Ji Ek daur thaa jab aap maujoodaa sabhi hindi versions ko DALDA kahaa kartey they. Yahaan tak ki aap poori tarah se urdu ke words ko focus kartey huve baat kartey they na ki poori line ke matlab ko samjhtey samjhaatey huve. "MASLAN vs. JAISE "words aapke Ishq-A-Urdu ki kasauti par kharey nahi utrey.Ismain koyee shak nahi ki aapne Gutkaa bahut mehnat se likhaa, lekin khaamiyaan vahaan bhi nazar main aayin. Theek usi tarah jaise ki aaj se 20-25 saal pehley lalkitab ke kadra-daano ne koshish ki thi aur khaamiyaan rah gayee thin.Aapne unki mehnat ki kadra na kertey huve unhain DALDA books keh daalaa.Hamain yah baat bakhoobi dhyaan main rakhni chahiye ki - KAAM KARNE WALE KI HEE KAMIYAAN BHI REHTI HAIN, LEKIN KAAMCHOR SE TO BEHTAR HEE KAHAA JAYEGA USE. Lekin aap pataa nahin kyon is sach ko sweekar karne ki bazaay ,pehley to "URDU ZABAAN" ka jhanda (Flag) oonchaa kartey rahey. Aaj aap "localized Punjabi Urdu" naam de rahey ho. Yograj ji, itnaa kaafi hai ki yah kitaab Urdu script main likhi gayee ,thik usi tarah jis tarah se main Roman Hindi main yah mail likh rahaa hoon.Meri is mail ko Hindi samajhne walaa insaan English ki script ka sahaaraa lekar bakhoobi samajh saktaa hai lekin ek British ya American kabhi nahi samajh saktaa.Bhaley hee script english ki hai aur beech main english ke words bhi istemaal kiye gaye hain. Isliye lalkitab ke Tarjuma ko language ya linguistics ke daayre main mat daaliye.Jo likhaa hai agar vah meaning ko nuksaan nahi pahunchaa rahaa to sweekar karne main kyaa harz hai. Yograj Bhai -" Bachchon ko khairat" ki jagah Andhon ko khairat "bolna galat ho saktaa hai, lekin kisi jagah "Andhon" word ki jagah "Netraheen" ka istemaal kyaa galat kahaa ja saktaa hai? Agar arth ka anarth ho rahaa ho to aap jaise kis marz ki davaa hain aur kab kaam aayengey? Yograj ji ! aaj Vashishtha ji ya Umesh ji jo kuchh likh rahey hain ,vah aaj se kayee varsh pehley kee gayee mehnat ko "DALDA" kehne aur lalkitab ki jagah sirf Urdu zabaan aur naye-2 Urdu-daan logo ki lalkitab ki jagah urdu ki vaqalat ka nateejaa hai.Vashishtha ji ne theek kahaa hai ki - "Good authors are those who respect others work and beget respect from others." Urdu se ab localized Punjabi Urdu kee taraf kadam-poshi kartey huve kahin Farwaaley ki Urdu ya Paindu Urdu par na utarnaa pad jaaye, aur vo bhi tab jabki aap khud hee 100% accuracy ka intejaar kar rahey hain.Yograj Ji aakhir main ek baat aur kehnaa chahtaa hun ,jo ki aap aur hum sab par laagu hoti hai-LOG PATTHAR HAMESHAA AAM KE PED PAR MARTEY HAIN, BABOOL KE PED PAR NAHI.Aur jo ped (Trees) Pattharon ki maar bardaasht kartey aaye hain aur aaj bhi kar rahey hain ve fir bhi bahaar aane par fruits denaa band nahi kartey aur na hee band karengey.Agar meri koyee baat aapko galat lagi ho to main mafi chahtaa hun.I appriciate & salute to all those, who are taking pain to make Tarjuma of Lalkitab with maximum accuracy.With regardsPt.lalkitabeeV.Shuklalalkitab , Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote:>> Dear Vashisht Ji,> Namaskar> > First of all, your notion that I questioned your knowledge of Urdu/Persian language is grossly incorrect. I never intended to do so, rest assured. Rather I admired you for initiating the monumental task of translating the Urdu editions of Lal Kitab. If you still have any doubt on my intentions, I cant help you. But, I still request you that you must correct yourself in this regard. > > Now the question of Persianized or Pakistani Urdu. The Urdu written in LK is the Urdu that was prevalent in Punjab in the 40's and 50's. This is NOT at all Persianized Urdu. Persianized Urdu is Ghalib and co's. not Pt Roop Chand jee. He wrote something that an ordinary Punjabi of the 30's, 40's and the 50's who also understood a little bit of farsi here and there will easily understand. Words like "kabootarbaazee', "Bidhata","DheePutt", "Pudpudee", "Thamm", "Chikdee","Gitak", "Chakk Ghumaraan", "Noonh", "Toomba", "Koonjan", "Meenh", "Subbhar CholaAdhyara", "Tewa", "Tipdaa", "Mekh", "Birkh", "Bricchhak", "Jotish", "Falaahi", "Nachhattar", "Tiliyar", "Tuniya tota", "Thathiyaar", "Upaayo"and many many more are the Great examples of Punjabised Urdu. Pt ji did not write ilm-e-samudrik, he wrote ilm-samudrik which is also correct as he mixed an Urdu and a localised expression (therefore, the impressive sounding "rule" does not apply but it is good> enough to try to impress someone). The same is also true about Ilm-Qyafaa.> > As far as your question about my qualification goes, I am not here to boast about my Degrees and Certificates. But since you insisted, I would humbly like to inform you that I am also holding two Post Graduate Diplomas (of course with distinctions) in Urdu and Urdu translation from the premier institutes of the country. I was also honored by some State Governments and various literary organizations of India and abroad for my Urdu poetry besides Punjabi and Hindi literary works. But I am still very very lowly placed than you. > > Luxmi bhai, Apka dil bilkul sahi maanta hai, But I would like to clarify that I never said or believed that I am the best. Today, I admit openly through this august forum that "I AM THE WORST" and I am the biggest Jackass amongst the Lal Kitab followers. "THE BEST" was, "THE BEST" is, and "THE BEST" will always be Pundit Roop Chand Joshi jee only. > > Cmmon Luxmi bhai, I cannot even think of using words like Jack**** for a "scholar" like you. This word is more suitable for me rather than anyone else.. I am not biased, jealous or envious of you or anybody else, My admiration for your instigation of translation work is the strong evidence of my thoughts and appreciation regarding you, I am proud of those who are working in this field (Including your good-self). I would love to discuss anything with you face to face after all we all are working for the same cause. > > Regards> Yograj Prabhakar> > --- On Tue, 16/12/08, laxmikant_vashisth laxmikant_vashisth wrote:> laxmikant_vashisth laxmikant_vashisth [lalkitab] HUMBLE REPLY TO SH. PRABHAKAR> lalkitab > Tuesday, 16 December, 2008, 10:15 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Parbhakarji > > Hello, > > This is the first time I am writing in this> group; probably there was no need for the same. But some of my learned friends> told me that there are some discussions going on in the group on the subject> matter of Urdu, I thought to join the discussions of the learned scholars who> might be alim, fazil, muallaim or Dukthtoors of the Urdu language. > > I do not want> to involve myself in the discussions of "Mausauf Siffat" or> 'Izaffat" as whatsoever our learned friend Umeshji have said is correct (I> think you know better than me), the word "Ilm-Qyafa" is not a perfect> grammatical formation in Persian as far as I know. It is again Ilm-e-Qyafa> which I would like to correct my learned group mate, of course, with his due> permission. > > Parbhakarji as> regards to your phrase "Punjabi Urdu" I do not know there is any form of Urdu> being taught in India. Yes, Pakistani Urdu is being taught in India and if you> want I can provide addresses of the esteemed institutions. The work "Greek to> someone" does not refer to any language but it is a proverb which is used in> expressing while using the idiomatic expressions that "the test is above my> comprehension" . I stand by Umesh ji for using this word. Please correct> yourself. > > > > > > Prabhakar ji,> my basic purpose of writing this mail was that you have questioned my knowledge> of Urdu Persian and Arabic. I wish, this need may arise. For your kind> information I humbly submit that a central University, has conferred a degree> on me with this effect, of course, with distinction. In addition to that I have> passed out the examination to get a job in govt. of India as translator of> foreign languages (Persian and Arabic). I do not think that after all that I> would need any conformation in this regard from any tom dick and harry. May I> know about your qualifications of Urdu and Persian as your have commented on my> knowledge. (Perhaps you are better placed than me). > > As regards to your contention that "I am a> jack ---------" , I would like to> enlighten you that only God is perfect. I am not here to compete with anyone,> as astrology is more like a passion to me then a business. Therefore, the> question as to who is better hardly arises. My work would only be judged by my> readers and not like you people who are biased. > Good authors are those who respect others work and beget respect from> others. I would have really appreciated your comments had you discussed them> with me face to face. In the end I would> like to advise you not to be envious of your friends but to encourage them. I> hope good sense will prevail on you. You think you are> the best but " dil hai ke manta nahin". I will wait for your reply. > > God bless you > > Thanks/regards > > Laxmi Kant Vashisth > > > > > > > >  > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/>

[Guest guest]

Laxmi bhai ji; Pt. jawahar lal nehru while commenting on one of his contemporaries described the difference between WELL INSTRUCTED and WELL EDUCATED. hope u know the difference.

kulbir

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:15 PM, laxmikant_vashisth <laxmikant_vashisth wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Respected Parbhakarji

Hello,

This is the first time I am writing in this group; probably there was no need for the same. But some of my learned friends told me that there are some discussions going on in the group on the subject matter of Urdu, I thought to join the discussions of the learned scholars who might be alim, fazil, muallaim or Dukthtoors of the Urdu language.

I do not want to involve myself in the discussions of " Mausauf Siffat " or 'Izaffat " as whatsoever our learned friend Umeshji have said is correct (I think you know better than me), the word " Ilm-Qyafa " is not a perfect grammatical formation in Persian as far as I know. It is again Ilm-e-Qyafa which I would like to correct my learned group mate, of course, with his due permission.

Parbhakarji as regards to your phrase " Punjabi Urdu " I do not know there is any form of Urdu being taught in India. Yes, Pakistani Urdu is being taught in India and if you want I can provide addresses of the esteemed institutions. The work " Greek to someone " does not refer to any language but it is a proverb which is used in expressing while using the idiomatic expressions that " the test is above my comprehension " . I stand by Umesh ji for using this word. Please correct yourself.

 

Prabhakar ji, my basic purpose of writing this mail was that you have questioned my knowledge of Urdu Persian and Arabic. I wish, this need may arise. For your kind information I humbly submit that a central University, has conferred a degree on me with this effect, of course, with distinction. In addition to that I have passed out the examination to get a job in govt. of India as translator of foreign languages (Persian and Arabic). I do not think that after all that I would need any conformation in this regard from any tom dick and harry. May I know about your qualifications of Urdu and Persian as your have commented on my knowledge. (Perhaps you are better placed than me).

As regards to your contention that " I am a jack --------- " , I would like to enlighten you that only God is perfect. I am not here to compete with anyone, as astrology is more like a passion to me then a business. Therefore, the question as to who is better hardly arises. My work would only be judged by my readers and not like you people who are biased. Good authors are those who respect others work and beget respect from others. I would have really appreciated your comments had you discussed them with me face to face. In the end I would like to advise you not to be envious of your friends but to encourage them. I hope good sense will prevail on you. You think you are the best but " dil hai ke manta nahin " . I will wait for your reply.

God bless you

Thanks/regards

Laxmi Kant Vashisth