Guest guest Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Dear Mr.Prabhakar, Thank you for the trouble you have taken to explain the " mystique " surrounding LK... Even in the early days of traditional astrology, due to a lack of proper deciphering of the Sanskrit Language...which necessarily is full of " small sentences " making one large compound sentence...a lot of confusion prevailed,and a careful deciphering " with reference to context " combined with a deep knowledge of traditional astrology was required to become a " learned astrologer " ...but,later to our Good Fortune the entire scene of traditiona astrology was changed by the advent of the brilliant, and the late Jyotish Marthand K.S Krishnamurthi... After years of diligent research and hard work,he was successful in firstly deciphering the import of the Sanskrit Shlokas properly/correctly,and then...Fortunately for us,he discovered K.P., and the secret was simply the division of the star into sub-divisions of varied lengths,in proportion of the periods alloted to each planet in Vimshottari Dasa(now popularly known as subs)...and then he took up the task of simplifying the entire science of Astrology and called it Krishnamurthi Padhdhati and removed the " mystery " surrounding it... Since, many of his brilliant students and sons,have added a lot to K.P.,and embellished it...making it very popular,all over the world... From what you have written, LK needs a " Krishnamurthi " to simplify all the various collections of sayings/couplets constituting it,codeify and simplify it, and evolve simple " rules " which could be applied by an average student... Of course,a sound knowledge of Persian and the culture obtaining then,the idioms in use then etc., will be the Prime requirements...as I see it... In any case,at my age(70),and state of health,I do not think I can possibly peruse the available literature on LK, much less digest/understand the contents in their correct context that they actually convey...as my knowledge of Persian is next to nothing... Well thank you, once again...I am no longer interested in going into a study of LK...at my age...and with my level of knowledge, or lack of the Persian Language, it looks an impossible venture for me... I do however hope and pray that a " Krishnamurthi " will arise among LK followers and write about it in English,and demystify LK... If you or your members would have written to me on these lines at the very first instance...all this correspondence would have been totally needless... With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. > > Mr. Rao, > > > > I suspect there is confusion - hence I shall clarify. As you are a > professional astrologer yourself, you seek more to chew on. Very > understandable and very desirable. > > > > However, if you are you seeking to understand the concepts of Lal Kitab > through this forum then this will be quite difficult. The basic is what Mr. > Yograj Prabhakar and Mr. Umesh Sharma has explained and should be starting > point of your self study. Once the participants know that you have read Lal > Kitab, are grappling with some concept, they will rush to discuss with you. > > > > But that is not possible through this forum as Lal Kitab has the following > hurdles: > > > > 1. It is in Urdu > > 2. It is written by a person from Punjab who has used the North Indian > mannerisms - which even North Indians miss as some of them are either very > rural (rustic) or even in Persian. > > 3. It has many couplets - poetry, using words not in daily use. > > 4. The internet forum of Lal Kitab astrolgers try to share their info, > and methods of interpretation. > > 5. Expecting a Lal Kitab astrologer to teach you step by step is too > much. It is very tedious for them. > > 6. Right way will be to acquire the book, read it (which you will not > understand at first go - nobody does, but slowly and steadily re- reading > will enhance your knowledge. In your case, you might acquire it at a faster > pace as your astrological knowledge is high) > > 7. Once you have read the book or even some parts of it, then take up > a point and discuss it to understand its logic, how it is applied. For > instance, nakshatras are ignored in LK. Or if Jupiter is in 4th house in > Capricorn - Jupiter will be considered exalted. Or if Venus is in sixth in > Pisces, Venus will be considered debilitated. There is no ascendant in LK > though the first horoscope is drawn using traditional method. > > 8. Lal Kitab takes care of Karma - there are some planetary positions > which cannot be remedied, some which can be. The ones which cannot be > remedied are destined to be experienced by the native. Plus it encourages to > lead a rightful way of life. > > 9. Even in KP, gemstones are recommended occasionally. > > 10. Explaining Lal Kitab calls for tedious explanations, and I suspect no > one has the energy or time to do it. > > 11. With your current lack of knowledge of Lal Kitab - you will most > likely laugh at most remedies. > > > > To illustrate: Mars in 4th house is considered malefic. If in the birth > chart or the annual chart (Varshphal) it comes in the 4th - the remedy is to > throw sugar or desi khand in the river. > > > > Or if likewise Saturn is in 4th then throwing milk in a well is suggested. > > > > If Rahu is in 11th then gold must be worn by native and he should avoid > wearing any uniform for fun (until and unless it is the dress of his > department) > > > > LK astrologer first ascertains whether the horoscope is correct (akin to KP > method of verifying birth time) by asking questions. Then next he ascertains > the malefic and benefic nature of the planet by asking questions to the > effects of the planets. E.g. if mercury is not benefic then few indications > are - bad teeth, sister or father's sister or one's own daughter in trouble > - many more. Mercury has been called a bat in LK. > > > > Once it is established that the planet is malefic then its position is seen > - whether it can be remedied or not. For instance, sun in 1st house cannot > be remedied. If it cannot be remedied then nothing can be done but if it can > be remedied then one can do them. > > > > For instance - as mentioned above - Saturn in 4th house has remedy - > throwing milk (moon) in a well (Saturn) keeps Saturn happy - this is my > understanding. More accomplished astrologers can correct me as I am still > learning the concepts of LK. > > > > You can continue to be dismissively critical of LK but a large number in > North India are following it. It would be a gain to LK if you studied it and > then after understanding its concepts (for this book has to be read) - I > guess you will be experimenting with LK. Once you will experiment with it, > we all will be beneficiaries for you will only add to our knowledge. Still > today there are many LK concepts which are not clear to any one - for > instance - the rationale behind Varshphal! But we continue to use it, > benefit from it and hope that at a future point the whole of LK will become > available in simple and easy to use form. Some astrologers in this forum are > engaged in this task. Trust me (if you can), LK is very precise and logical. > The challenge is to understand all of its logic. Eg. Like KP, LK says > conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn keeps the malefic planets in a quiet mode. > Why? > > > > I hope this may prove to be an invitation to open a LK book and then become > a participant in these discussions. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Dear Mr. Rao, Apologies as I have kind of communicated impossibility in study of LK. Your age of 70 is a welcome age, the right age to study this. Knowledge of Persian is not essential. In any case, some members have already made a dictionary of words. You can read the hindi version – it is evident your grasp of Hindi is good. Please read it in Hindi. Your analytical mind, questioning mind will be only beneficial. My personal view is that we need all three – vedic to know our general trends, KP to pinpoint timings or for its horary and LK for remedies. The new astrologer will have skills in all three, will utilize them. Each branch has its own strength, and should be used for that purpose. Perhaps through Internet forums this will happen. I have got my chart analysed by western astrology – the ascendant is different there yet their analysis is spot on. Once again I urge you to take up the book. We will have very interesting discussions with you. lalkitab [lalkitab ] On Behalf Of L.Y.Rao. Wednesday, February 20, 2008 20:17 lalkitab [lalkitab] Re: Mr. Rao, Mr. Umesh Sharma etc. Dear Mr.Prabhakar, Thank you for the trouble you have taken to explain the " mystique " surrounding LK... Even in the early days of traditional astrology, due to a lack of proper deciphering of the Sanskrit Language...which necessarily is full of " small sentences " making one large compound sentence...a lot of confusion prevailed,and a careful deciphering " with reference to context " combined with a deep knowledge of traditional astrology was required to become a " learned astrologer " ...but,later to our Good Fortune the entire scene of traditiona astrology was changed by the advent of the brilliant, and the late Jyotish Marthand K.S Krishnamurthi... After years of diligent research and hard work,he was successful in firstly deciphering the import of the Sanskrit Shlokas properly/correctly,and then...Fortunately for us,he discovered K.P., and the secret was simply the division of the star into sub-divisions of varied lengths,in proportion of the periods alloted to each planet in Vimshottari Dasa(now popularly known as subs)...and then he took up the task of simplifying the entire science of Astrology and called it Krishnamurthi Padhdhati and removed the " mystery " surrounding it... Since, many of his brilliant students and sons,have added a lot to K.P.,and embellished it...making it very popular,all over the world... From what you have written, LK needs a " Krishnamurthi " to simplify all the various collections of sayings/couplets constituting it,codeify and simplify it, and evolve simple " rules " which could be applied by an average student... Of course,a sound knowledge of Persian and the culture obtaining then,the idioms in use then etc., will be the Prime requirements...as I see it... In any case,at my age(70),and state of health,I do not think I can possibly peruse the available literature on LK, much less digest/understand the contents in their correct context that they actually convey...as my knowledge of Persian is next to nothing... Well thank you, once again...I am no longer interested in going into a study of LK...at my age...and with my level of knowledge, or lack of the Persian Language, it looks an impossible venture for me... I do however hope and pray that a " Krishnamurthi " will arise among LK followers and write about it in English,and demystify LK... If you or your members would have written to me on these lines at the very first instance...all this correspondence would have been totally needless... With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. > > Mr. Rao, > > > > I suspect there is confusion - hence I shall clarify. As you are a > professional astrologer yourself, you seek more to chew on. Very > understandable and very desirable. > > > > However, if you are you seeking to understand the concepts of Lal Kitab > through this forum then this will be quite difficult. The basic is what Mr. > Yograj Prabhakar and Mr. Umesh Sharma has explained and should be starting > point of your self study. Once the participants know that you have read Lal > Kitab, are grappling with some concept, they will rush to discuss with you. > > > > But that is not possible through this forum as Lal Kitab has the following > hurdles: > > > > 1. It is in Urdu > > 2. It is written by a person from Punjab who has used the North Indian > mannerisms - which even North Indians miss as some of them are either very > rural (rustic) or even in Persian. > > 3. It has many couplets - poetry, using words not in daily use. > > 4. The internet forum of Lal Kitab astrolgers try to share their info, > and methods of interpretation. > > 5. Expecting a Lal Kitab astrologer to teach you step by step is too > much. It is very tedious for them. > > 6. Right way will be to acquire the book, read it (which you will not > understand at first go - nobody does, but slowly and steadily re- reading > will enhance your knowledge. In your case, you might acquire it at a faster > pace as your astrological knowledge is high) > > 7. Once you have read the book or even some parts of it, then take up > a point and discuss it to understand its logic, how it is applied. For > instance, nakshatras are ignored in LK. Or if Jupiter is in 4th house in > Capricorn - Jupiter will be considered exalted. Or if Venus is in sixth in > Pisces, Venus will be considered debilitated. There is no ascendant in LK > though the first horoscope is drawn using traditional method. > > 8. Lal Kitab takes care of Karma - there are some planetary positions > which cannot be remedied, some which can be. The ones which cannot be > remedied are destined to be experienced by the native. Plus it encourages to > lead a rightful way of life. > > 9. Even in KP, gemstones are recommended occasionally. > > 10. Explaining Lal Kitab calls for tedious explanations, and I suspect no > one has the energy or time to do it. > > 11. With your current lack of knowledge of Lal Kitab - you will most > likely laugh at most remedies. > > > > To illustrate: Mars in 4th house is considered malefic. If in the birth > chart or the annual chart (Varshphal) it comes in the 4th - the remedy is to > throw sugar or desi khand in the river. > > > > Or if likewise Saturn is in 4th then throwing milk in a well is suggested. > > > > If Rahu is in 11th then gold must be worn by native and he should avoid > wearing any uniform for fun (until and unless it is the dress of his > department) > > > > LK astrologer first ascertains whether the horoscope is correct (akin to KP > method of verifying birth time) by asking questions. Then next he ascertains > the malefic and benefic nature of the planet by asking questions to the > effects of the planets. E.g. if mercury is not benefic then few indications > are - bad teeth, sister or father's sister or one's own daughter in trouble > - many more. Mercury has been called a bat in LK. > > > > Once it is established that the planet is malefic then its position is seen > - whether it can be remedied or not. For instance, sun in 1st house cannot > be remedied. If it cannot be remedied then nothing can be done but if it can > be remedied then one can do them. > > > > For instance - as mentioned above - Saturn in 4th house has remedy - > throwing milk (moon) in a well (Saturn) keeps Saturn happy - this is my > understanding. More accomplished astrologers can correct me as I am still > learning the concepts of LK. > > > > You can continue to be dismissively critical of LK but a large number in > North India are following it. It would be a gain to LK if you studied it and > then after understanding its concepts (for this book has to be read) - I > guess you will be experimenting with LK. Once you will experiment with it, > we all will be beneficiaries for you will only add to our knowledge. Still > today there are many LK concepts which are not clear to any one - for > instance - the rationale behind Varshphal! But we continue to use it, > benefit from it and hope that at a future point the whole of LK will become > available in simple and easy to use form. Some astrologers in this forum are > engaged in this task. Trust me (if you can), LK is very precise and logical. > The challenge is to understand all of its logic. Eg. Like KP, LK says > conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn keeps the malefic planets in a quiet mode. > Why? > > > > I hope this may prove to be an invitation to open a LK book and then become > a participant in these discussions. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Respected Rao Sahib, Age is no bar to knowledge. You are having a vast base of astrological studies and may prove to be a " Krishanamurthi'of Lal Kitab. Good transliterations of Lalkitabs are now available in Hindi. You can refer these transliterations for you studies. Even Learning Urdu is not a big time consumer. It will take just one month practice with a 'Urdu Qaida', one can able to read the Lalkitab in urdu. As far as persian words are concerned,maximum words have already been adapted in our day to day spoken hindi. In my opinion A person having good logical mind can able to reach the level of raising such type of queries. I invite you to study this subject from Book 1 (1939 Edition) onwards.A good number of lalkitab students/scholars are available over internet community and they will be surely happy to have an addition of a person like you in their community. Regards Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj lalkitab , " L.Y.Rao. " <lyrastro1 wrote: > > Dear Mr.Prabhakar, > Thank you for the trouble you have taken to > explain the " mystique " surrounding LK... > Even in the early days of traditional astrology, > due to a lack of proper deciphering of the Sanskrit Language...which > necessarily is full of " small sentences " making one large compound > sentence...a lot of confusion prevailed,and a careful deciphering > " with reference to context " combined with a deep knowledge of > traditional astrology was required to become a " learned > astrologer " ...but,later to our Good Fortune the entire scene of > traditiona astrology was changed by the advent of the brilliant, and > the late Jyotish Marthand K.S Krishnamurthi... > After years of diligent research and hard work,he > was successful in firstly deciphering the import of the Sanskrit > Shlokas properly/correctly,and then...Fortunately for us,he > discovered K.P., and the secret was simply the division of the star > into sub-divisions of varied lengths,in proportion of the periods > alloted to each planet in Vimshottari Dasa(now popularly known as > subs)...and then he took up the task of simplifying the entire > science of Astrology and called it Krishnamurthi Padhdhati and > removed the " mystery " surrounding it... > Since, many of his brilliant students and > sons,have added a lot to K.P.,and embellished it...making it very > popular,all over the world... > From what you have written, LK needs > a " Krishnamurthi " to simplify all the various collections of > sayings/couplets constituting it,codeify and simplify it, and evolve > simple " rules " which could be applied by an average student... > Of course,a sound knowledge of Persian > and the culture obtaining then,the idioms in use then etc., will be > the Prime requirements...as I see it... > In any case,at my age(70),and state of health,I do > not think I can possibly peruse the available literature on LK, much > less digest/understand the contents in their correct context that > they actually convey...as my knowledge of Persian is next to > nothing... > Well thank you, once again...I am no longer > interested in going into a study of LK...at my age...and with my > level of knowledge, or lack of the Persian Language, it looks an > impossible venture for me... > I do however hope and pray that a " Krishnamurthi " > will arise among LK followers and write about it in English,and > demystify LK... > If you or your members would have written to me on > these lines at the very first instance...all this correspondence > would have been totally needless... > With kind regards, > L.Y.Rao. > > > > Mr. Rao, > > > > > > > > I suspect there is confusion - hence I shall clarify. As you are a > > professional astrologer yourself, you seek more to chew on. Very > > understandable and very desirable. > > > > > > > > However, if you are you seeking to understand the concepts of Lal > Kitab > > through this forum then this will be quite difficult. The basic is > what Mr. > > Yograj Prabhakar and Mr. Umesh Sharma has explained and should be > starting > > point of your self study. Once the participants know that you have > read Lal > > Kitab, are grappling with some concept, they will rush to discuss > with you. > > > > > > > > But that is not possible through this forum as Lal Kitab has the > following > > hurdles: > > > > > > > > 1. It is in Urdu > > > > 2. It is written by a person from Punjab who has used the > North Indian > > mannerisms - which even North Indians miss as some of them are > either very > > rural (rustic) or even in Persian. > > > > 3. It has many couplets - poetry, using words not in daily > use. > > > > 4. The internet forum of Lal Kitab astrolgers try to share > their info, > > and methods of interpretation. > > > > 5. Expecting a Lal Kitab astrologer to teach you step by step > is too > > much. It is very tedious for them. > > > > 6. Right way will be to acquire the book, read it (which you > will not > > understand at first go - nobody does, but slowly and steadily re- > reading > > will enhance your knowledge. In your case, you might acquire it at > a faster > > pace as your astrological knowledge is high) > > > > 7. Once you have read the book or even some parts of it, then > take up > > a point and discuss it to understand its logic, how it is applied. > For > > instance, nakshatras are ignored in LK. Or if Jupiter is in 4th > house in > > Capricorn - Jupiter will be considered exalted. Or if Venus is in > sixth in > > Pisces, Venus will be considered debilitated. There is no ascendant > in LK > > though the first horoscope is drawn using traditional method. > > > > 8. Lal Kitab takes care of Karma - there are some planetary > positions > > which cannot be remedied, some which can be. The ones which cannot > be > > remedied are destined to be experienced by the native. Plus it > encourages to > > lead a rightful way of life. > > > > 9. Even in KP, gemstones are recommended occasionally. > > > > 10. Explaining Lal Kitab calls for tedious explanations, and I > suspect no > > one has the energy or time to do it. > > > > 11. With your current lack of knowledge of Lal Kitab - you will > most > > likely laugh at most remedies. > > > > > > > > To illustrate: Mars in 4th house is considered malefic. If in the > birth > > chart or the annual chart (Varshphal) it comes in the 4th - the > remedy is to > > throw sugar or desi khand in the river. > > > > > > > > Or if likewise Saturn is in 4th then throwing milk in a well is > suggested. > > > > > > > > If Rahu is in 11th then gold must be worn by native and he should > avoid > > wearing any uniform for fun (until and unless it is the dress of his > > department) > > > > > > > > LK astrologer first ascertains whether the horoscope is correct > (akin to KP > > method of verifying birth time) by asking questions. Then next he > ascertains > > the malefic and benefic nature of the planet by asking questions to > the > > effects of the planets. E.g. if mercury is not benefic then few > indications > > are - bad teeth, sister or father's sister or one's own daughter in > trouble > > - many more. Mercury has been called a bat in LK. > > > > > > > > Once it is established that the planet is malefic then its position > is seen > > - whether it can be remedied or not. For instance, sun in 1st house > cannot > > be remedied. If it cannot be remedied then nothing can be done but > if it can > > be remedied then one can do them. > > > > > > > > For instance - as mentioned above - Saturn in 4th house has remedy - > > throwing milk (moon) in a well (Saturn) keeps Saturn happy - this > is my > > understanding. More accomplished astrologers can correct me as I am > still > > learning the concepts of LK. > > > > > > > > You can continue to be dismissively critical of LK but a large > number in > > North India are following it. It would be a gain to LK if you > studied it and > > then after understanding its concepts (for this book has to be > read) - I > > guess you will be experimenting with LK. Once you will experiment > with it, > > we all will be beneficiaries for you will only add to our > knowledge. Still > > today there are many LK concepts which are not clear to any one - > for > > instance - the rationale behind Varshphal! But we continue to use > it, > > benefit from it and hope that at a future point the whole of LK > will become > > available in simple and easy to use form. Some astrologers in this > forum are > > engaged in this task. Trust me (if you can), LK is very precise and > logical. > > The challenge is to understand all of its logic. Eg. Like KP, LK > says > > conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn keeps the malefic planets in a > quiet mode. > > Why? > > > > > > > > I hope this may prove to be an invitation to open a LK book and > then become > > a participant in these discussions. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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