The Agony of Fruitless Debate 3 -K.N.Raoji

[Guest guest]

Dear All

 

I have great respect for Raoji and this is not based on anybody's

view or anybody's recomemndation.

 

It is purely based on my interaction with him.Regarding Karakamsha

etc i have had discussions with Raoji.He has explained the Saturn AK

example to me.

 

Also he has given me many advises and the gentleman is humble enough

to write to a student like me.

 

Regarding Varga chakras - Whether i have tried in the past to

discuss or raise the point is between Raoji and me.I do not want to

disclose it.

 

As far as Jyotish is concerned,i as a student can raise

concerns.There are two ways in which one can react.

 

1)Shri PVR rao did discuss with me.I had reached the same stage as i

have reached with Chandrashekhar ji.Aspect in Rashi.All off a sudden

shri PVR Rao said something this and that ...pradeep sets rules

c...changes etc and left the debate.I cannot force anyone to stay.

 

2)Shri Sanjay Rath -He too joined the debate and discussed points

well.But i respect the way he ended the debate.He asked me ..ami

supposed to know everything.This is honest.Shri Rath may be a

scholar and he perhaps knows (honestly) 1000 things in Jyotish that

i dont know.But there can be one thing which holds true in the

reverse case.This honesty is different from accusing the other and

leaving the debate.

 

3)I am thankful to Chandrashekhar ji for his patience and replies.

 

4)There can be another way of ending debates by frustarting the

other,no technical points and say he is like this ,this person is

like this etc.I have no hatred towards that person as well.

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

 

 

 

 

, " Satya Sai Kolachina "

<skolachi wrote:

>

> Sunil,

>

> Excellent post. I just want to say one thing.

> Though I am not a direct student of Sri KNRao, I learnt a lot from

> his books and I tried maximum to defend Sri KNRao and his approach.

>

> But my final word is, Sri KNRao is beyond all these matters. He

> might have faced worst opposiion in the past. In my opinion, he

> doesn't need anyone to defend his approach, as his approach is

> itself self-defensive.

>

> Regards,

> Satya S Kolachina

>

> , " suniljohn_2002 "

> <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> >

> > Om Datta Guru

> >

> > Dear Prafulla,

> >

> >

> > KNR and Vargas

> > 10) These people claim so much of closeness to KNRao but how

come

> they

> > cant quote a single interaction with him on the Context of this

> > discussion, thats the very basis of KNRs system. How come they

can

> > always say KNR said this, KNR told me that, how come they have

not

> asked

> > him the very basis of his system

> >

> > Thankless Students of - KNRao and Sanjay

> > 11) 2 weeks back i was accused by an astrologer to one of my

> friends

> > that i do not share my methods, do I know astrology enough is

the

> first

> > honest question, next is what use is of sharing astrology. This

> list has

> > so many members who have learnt from KNRaos brilliant posts on

> this list

> > from so many yrs and also this list contains students of Sanjay

> Rath,

> > Visti Larsen and PVR. Have any of those students come forward in

> > explaining the views of their Gurus, some might be busy but i

see

> so

> > many members who are active but refrain from defending their

> teachers

> > and mentors like KNRao. This is the problem with us, we are all

> > spineless. We might be wrong or right in the astro knowledge but

> atleast

> > we must come in defence of our teachers but we cant. This is

what

> i

> > referred to PR Astrology earlier and i always repeat true

astrology

> > never comes to spineless creatures max one can learn is from

what

> is

> > written but real astrology that works is never written and will

> never be

> > and hence we find many real parampara people will never write a

> book,

> > never ever they will write. They know what happens to them after

> they

> > reveal the real knowledge. Anybody who has travelled in india

and

> met

> > these kinds whom i talk about know what i am talking about.

> >

> > Twins

> > 12) I had replied on this earlier, the very basis of how we see

> charts

> > is not the most appropriate way. But still someone said that do

we

> use

> > Vargas when we see charts of Twins. Santhanam has written

volumes

> of

> > pages on it those interested can browse his works. In so many

nadis

> > there is mention of this, alas there is not a single authority

> alive who

> > can teach us that real astrology. The point is we are all

talking

> on the

> > external layer when thats not the hardcore foolproof way of

seeing

> > charts, what we are doing is kid stuff and only elementary

> prediction

> > can come out of it that too if we are too capable and blessed.

> >

> > Aspects & Divisional Charts

> > 13) To disprove aspects in the white paper we must first disprove

> > Divisional Charts and then show how to use it, where other

writers

> have

> > gone wrong. It can be selective avoidance of issues addressed

> here. once

> > a paper is presented it should be so crystal clear n crisp that

> follow

> > up questions need to be minimal otherwise the paper is poorly

> written.

> > If i say this is the way to use Navamsha then i must also show u

> how to

> > use D20, D45 otherwise its like teaching u half way with my half

> baked

> > knowledge.

> > A person who is crystal clear in his intent with purity would

not

> avoid

> > these questions in his teachings.

> >

> > Frustration

> > 14) Some members who are new here do not have the background to

> see for

> > how many yrs this discussion has been happening, repeatedly and

> > endlessly. In 2-3 yrs i would have written a book on that topic

> instead.

> > It is this repeated discussion with selective answering without

any

> > practical display of new theories or maybe old ones are what

makes

> us

> > frustrated to reply like this. Why the lack of patience among old

> > members and why they choose to exit out of this group. I always

> repeat

> > Lack of Moderation is a key issue in this group.

> >

> > Now I must end this and get out of the list, its been a useless

> waste of

> > energies in the last 1 month. This same topic happens over and

> over and

> > i still wait for them to erect 13 charts of Sagi lagna to see if

> it is

> > Sagi lagna or not since the last 1 yr. Still i wait for them to

> erect

> > more than 15 charts of Mahapurusha yoga to see if MPY is present

> in it

> > or not. In 1.5 yrs they did not get time to do this, I think it

> takes 30

> > mins maximum, hence i avoid discussions as its only Campism here

in

> > jyotish forums and no true seeking of knowledge.

> >

> > Today the tables are turned and after 2.5yrs (Shani) one has to

> taste

> > ones own medicines of Campism and PR astrology. As In Home

Alone -

> Kevin

> > says 'Eat this' or was it in MJ video

> >

> > best wishes

> >

> > Sunil John

> > Mumbai

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Pradeep ji,

 

Obviously it is your prerogative what to disclose or not - but then on

any technical debates, it is prudent to disclose the opinion of senior

astrologers. I did the same and shared explanation of Late Shri

Santhanam on aspects in varga chakra.

 

It is indeed suprising to know that you do not want to disclose the

opinion of Shri KN Rao on it. Nobody asked you to reveal his opinion

on your chart etc. But we requested you to share his technical opinion

on interpretation of Shri KN Rao..and you found that unreasonable. If

so - then, why even raise the thread and theory on the forum - at the

cost of time and space of the forum !!

 

Well -- people can be accused of being non technical, but just reread

your comments and decide. Did you offer to reply on the charts

produced by members through your model? On the contrary - members

produced examples through various books / astrologers and shown how it

was read with charts. But you found that non technical !! Why two

standards. I have yet to receive reply on one simple question, on

which I wanted you to reply in YES or NO..but throughout the

discussions - answers were selective to suit convenience.

 

I observed your recent discussion with Shri Chandrasekhar ji also,

where he quoted from shlokas and classics - but when they did not suit

your opinion - again the threads were diverted.

 

Also - the thread at later stage amongst members was diverted to

aspects in D chakra - whereas the whole contention was on existence of

separate D chakra, yogas therein, and of course aspects. Also -

questions on other varga chakra (other than D9) was skipped.

 

With all these twists and misquotes - you are still alleging members

as unreasonable lot..why? just because - your entire theory could not

be proved through predictive application with clear exhibition of

predictive fallacies?

 

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

http://www.prafulla.net

 

There are two kinds of light: (a) the glow that illumines, and (b) the

glare that obscures.

 

************************************************

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear All

>

> I have great respect for Raoji and this is not based on anybody's

> view or anybody's recomemndation.

>

> It is purely based on my interaction with him.Regarding Karakamsha

> etc i have had discussions with Raoji.He has explained the Saturn AK

> example to me.

>

> Also he has given me many advises and the gentleman is humble enough

> to write to a student like me.

>

> Regarding Varga chakras - Whether i have tried in the past to

> discuss or raise the point is between Raoji and me.I do not want to

> disclose it.

>

> As far as Jyotish is concerned,i as a student can raise

> concerns.There are two ways in which one can react.

>

> 1)Shri PVR rao did discuss with me.I had reached the same stage as i

> have reached with Chandrashekhar ji.Aspect in Rashi.All off a sudden

> shri PVR Rao said something this and that ...pradeep sets rules

> c...changes etc and left the debate.I cannot force anyone to stay.

>

> 2)Shri Sanjay Rath -He too joined the debate and discussed points

> well.But i respect the way he ended the debate.He asked me ..ami

> supposed to know everything.This is honest.Shri Rath may be a

> scholar and he perhaps knows (honestly) 1000 things in Jyotish that

> i dont know.But there can be one thing which holds true in the

> reverse case.This honesty is different from accusing the other and

> leaving the debate.

>

> 3)I am thankful to Chandrashekhar ji for his patience and replies.

>

> 4)There can be another way of ending debates by frustarting the

> other,no technical points and say he is like this ,this person is

> like this etc.I have no hatred towards that person as well.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

>

>

>

>

> , " Satya Sai Kolachina "

> <skolachi@> wrote:

> >

> > Sunil,

> >

> > Excellent post. I just want to say one thing.

> > Though I am not a direct student of Sri KNRao, I learnt a lot from

> > his books and I tried maximum to defend Sri KNRao and his approach.

> >

> > But my final word is, Sri KNRao is beyond all these matters. He

> > might have faced worst opposiion in the past. In my opinion, he

> > doesn't need anyone to defend his approach, as his approach is

> > itself self-defensive.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Satya S Kolachina

> >

> > , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Datta Guru

> > >

> > > Dear Prafulla,

> > >

> > >

> > > KNR and Vargas

> > > 10) These people claim so much of closeness to KNRao but how

> come

> > they

> > > cant quote a single interaction with him on the Context of this

> > > discussion, thats the very basis of KNRs system. How come they

> can

> > > always say KNR said this, KNR told me that, how come they have

> not

> > asked

> > > him the very basis of his system

> > >

> > > Thankless Students of - KNRao and Sanjay

> > > 11) 2 weeks back i was accused by an astrologer to one of my

> > friends

> > > that i do not share my methods, do I know astrology enough is

> the

> > first

> > > honest question, next is what use is of sharing astrology. This

> > list has

> > > so many members who have learnt from KNRaos brilliant posts on

> > this list

> > > from so many yrs and also this list contains students of Sanjay

> > Rath,

> > > Visti Larsen and PVR. Have any of those students come forward in

> > > explaining the views of their Gurus, some might be busy but i

> see

> > so

> > > many members who are active but refrain from defending their

> > teachers

> > > and mentors like KNRao. This is the problem with us, we are all

> > > spineless. We might be wrong or right in the astro knowledge but

> > atleast

> > > we must come in defence of our teachers but we cant. This is

> what

> > i

> > > referred to PR Astrology earlier and i always repeat true

> astrology

> > > never comes to spineless creatures max one can learn is from

> what

> > is

> > > written but real astrology that works is never written and will

> > never be

> > > and hence we find many real parampara people will never write a

> > book,

> > > never ever they will write. They know what happens to them after

> > they

> > > reveal the real knowledge. Anybody who has travelled in india

> and

> > met

> > > these kinds whom i talk about know what i am talking about.

> > >

> > > Twins

> > > 12) I had replied on this earlier, the very basis of how we see

> > charts

> > > is not the most appropriate way. But still someone said that do

> we

> > use

> > > Vargas when we see charts of Twins. Santhanam has written

> volumes

> > of

> > > pages on it those interested can browse his works. In so many

> nadis

> > > there is mention of this, alas there is not a single authority

> > alive who

> > > can teach us that real astrology. The point is we are all

> talking

> > on the

> > > external layer when thats not the hardcore foolproof way of

> seeing

> > > charts, what we are doing is kid stuff and only elementary

> > prediction

> > > can come out of it that too if we are too capable and blessed.

> > >

> > > Aspects & Divisional Charts

> > > 13) To disprove aspects in the white paper we must first disprove

> > > Divisional Charts and then show how to use it, where other

> writers

> > have

> > > gone wrong. It can be selective avoidance of issues addressed

> > here. once

> > > a paper is presented it should be so crystal clear n crisp that

> > follow

> > > up questions need to be minimal otherwise the paper is poorly

> > written.

> > > If i say this is the way to use Navamsha then i must also show u

> > how to

> > > use D20, D45 otherwise its like teaching u half way with my half

> > baked

> > > knowledge.

> > > A person who is crystal clear in his intent with purity would

> not

> > avoid

> > > these questions in his teachings.

> > >

> > > Frustration

> > > 14) Some members who are new here do not have the background to

> > see for

> > > how many yrs this discussion has been happening, repeatedly and

> > > endlessly. In 2-3 yrs i would have written a book on that topic

> > instead.

> > > It is this repeated discussion with selective answering without

> any

> > > practical display of new theories or maybe old ones are what

> makes

> > us

> > > frustrated to reply like this. Why the lack of patience among old

> > > members and why they choose to exit out of this group. I always

> > repeat

> > > Lack of Moderation is a key issue in this group.

> > >

> > > Now I must end this and get out of the list, its been a useless

> > waste of

> > > energies in the last 1 month. This same topic happens over and

> > over and

> > > i still wait for them to erect 13 charts of Sagi lagna to see if

> > it is

> > > Sagi lagna or not since the last 1 yr. Still i wait for them to

> > erect

> > > more than 15 charts of Mahapurusha yoga to see if MPY is present

> > in it

> > > or not. In 1.5 yrs they did not get time to do this, I think it

> > takes 30

> > > mins maximum, hence i avoid discussions as its only Campism here

> in

> > > jyotish forums and no true seeking of knowledge.

> > >

> > > Today the tables are turned and after 2.5yrs (Shani) one has to

> > taste

> > > ones own medicines of Campism and PR astrology. As In Home

> Alone -

> > Kevin

> > > says 'Eat this' or was it in MJ video

> > >

> > > best wishes

> > >

> > > Sunil John

> > > Mumbai

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Prafulla ji

 

There is nothing to hide.

 

'' Regarding Varga chakras - Whether i have tried in the past to

discuss or raise the point is between Raoji and me.I do not want to

disclose it''.

 

I did not say i do not want to disclose any secret shared by

him.Kindly do not press more regarding this topic.

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

 

, " Prafulla Gang " <jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Pradeep ji,

>

> Obviously it is your prerogative what to disclose or not - but

then on

> any technical debates, it is prudent to disclose the opinion of

senior

> astrologers. I did the same and shared explanation of Late Shri

> Santhanam on aspects in varga chakra.

>

> It is indeed suprising to know that you do not want to disclose the

> opinion of Shri KN Rao on it. Nobody asked you to reveal his

opinion

> on your chart etc. But we requested you to share his technical

opinion

> on interpretation of Shri KN Rao..and you found that unreasonable.

If

> so - then, why even raise the thread and theory on the forum - at

the

> cost of time and space of the forum !!

>

> Well -- people can be accused of being non technical, but just

reread

> your comments and decide. Did you offer to reply on the charts

> produced by members through your model? On the contrary - members

> produced examples through various books / astrologers and shown

how it

> was read with charts. But you found that non technical !! Why two

> standards. I have yet to receive reply on one simple question, on

> which I wanted you to reply in YES or NO..but throughout the

> discussions - answers were selective to suit convenience.

>

> I observed your recent discussion with Shri Chandrasekhar ji also,

> where he quoted from shlokas and classics - but when they did not

suit

> your opinion - again the threads were diverted.

>

> Also - the thread at later stage amongst members was diverted to

> aspects in D chakra - whereas the whole contention was on

existence of

> separate D chakra, yogas therein, and of course aspects. Also -

> questions on other varga chakra (other than D9) was skipped.

>

> With all these twists and misquotes - you are still alleging

members

> as unreasonable lot..why? just because - your entire theory could

not

> be proved through predictive application with clear exhibition of

> predictive fallacies?

>

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

> http://www.prafulla.net

>

> There are two kinds of light: (a) the glow that illumines, and (b)

the

> glare that obscures.

>

> ************************************************

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear All

> >

> > I have great respect for Raoji and this is not based on

anybody's

> > view or anybody's recomemndation.

> >

> > It is purely based on my interaction with him.Regarding

Karakamsha

> > etc i have had discussions with Raoji.He has explained the

Saturn AK

> > example to me.

> >

> > Also he has given me many advises and the gentleman is humble

enough

> > to write to a student like me.

> >

> > Regarding Varga chakras - Whether i have tried in the past to

> > discuss or raise the point is between Raoji and me.I do not want

to

> > disclose it.

> >

> > As far as Jyotish is concerned,i as a student can raise

> > concerns.There are two ways in which one can react.

> >

> > 1)Shri PVR rao did discuss with me.I had reached the same stage

as i

> > have reached with Chandrashekhar ji.Aspect in Rashi.All off a

sudden

> > shri PVR Rao said something this and that ...pradeep sets rules

> > c...changes etc and left the debate.I cannot force anyone to

stay.

> >

> > 2)Shri Sanjay Rath -He too joined the debate and discussed

points

> > well.But i respect the way he ended the debate.He asked me ..ami

> > supposed to know everything.This is honest.Shri Rath may be a

> > scholar and he perhaps knows (honestly) 1000 things in Jyotish

that

> > i dont know.But there can be one thing which holds true in the

> > reverse case.This honesty is different from accusing the other

and

> > leaving the debate.

> >

> > 3)I am thankful to Chandrashekhar ji for his patience and

replies.

> >

> > 4)There can be another way of ending debates by frustarting the

> > other,no technical points and say he is like this ,this person

is

> > like this etc.I have no hatred towards that person as well.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Satya Sai Kolachina "

> > <skolachi@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sunil,

> > >

> > > Excellent post. I just want to say one thing.

> > > Though I am not a direct student of Sri KNRao, I learnt a lot

from

> > > his books and I tried maximum to defend Sri KNRao and his

approach.

> > >

> > > But my final word is, Sri KNRao is beyond all these matters.

He

> > > might have faced worst opposiion in the past. In my opinion,

he

> > > doesn't need anyone to defend his approach, as his approach is

> > > itself self-defensive.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Satya S Kolachina

> > >

> > > , " suniljohn_2002 "

> > > <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > >

> > > > Dear Prafulla,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > KNR and Vargas

> > > > 10) These people claim so much of closeness to KNRao but how

> > come

> > > they

> > > > cant quote a single interaction with him on the Context of

this

> > > > discussion, thats the very basis of KNRs system. How come

they

> > can

> > > > always say KNR said this, KNR told me that, how come they

have

> > not

> > > asked

> > > > him the very basis of his system

> > > >

> > > > Thankless Students of - KNRao and Sanjay

> > > > 11) 2 weeks back i was accused by an astrologer to one of my

> > > friends

> > > > that i do not share my methods, do I know astrology enough

is

> > the

> > > first

> > > > honest question, next is what use is of sharing astrology.

This

> > > list has

> > > > so many members who have learnt from KNRaos brilliant posts

on

> > > this list

> > > > from so many yrs and also this list contains students of

Sanjay

> > > Rath,

> > > > Visti Larsen and PVR. Have any of those students come

forward in

> > > > explaining the views of their Gurus, some might be busy but

i

> > see

> > > so

> > > > many members who are active but refrain from defending their

> > > teachers

> > > > and mentors like KNRao. This is the problem with us, we are

all

> > > > spineless. We might be wrong or right in the astro knowledge

but

> > > atleast

> > > > we must come in defence of our teachers but we cant. This

is

> > what

> > > i

> > > > referred to PR Astrology earlier and i always repeat true

> > astrology

> > > > never comes to spineless creatures max one can learn is from

> > what

> > > is

> > > > written but real astrology that works is never written and

will

> > > never be

> > > > and hence we find many real parampara people will never

write a

> > > book,

> > > > never ever they will write. They know what happens to them

after

> > > they

> > > > reveal the real knowledge. Anybody who has travelled in

india

> > and

> > > met

> > > > these kinds whom i talk about know what i am talking about.

> > > >

> > > > Twins

> > > > 12) I had replied on this earlier, the very basis of how we

see

> > > charts

> > > > is not the most appropriate way. But still someone said that

do

> > we

> > > use

> > > > Vargas when we see charts of Twins. Santhanam has written

> > volumes

> > > of

> > > > pages on it those interested can browse his works. In so

many

> > nadis

> > > > there is mention of this, alas there is not a single

authority

> > > alive who

> > > > can teach us that real astrology. The point is we are all

> > talking

> > > on the

> > > > external layer when thats not the hardcore foolproof way of

> > seeing

> > > > charts, what we are doing is kid stuff and only elementary

> > > prediction

> > > > can come out of it that too if we are too capable and

blessed.

> > > >

> > > > Aspects & Divisional Charts

> > > > 13) To disprove aspects in the white paper we must first

disprove

> > > > Divisional Charts and then show how to use it, where other

> > writers

> > > have

> > > > gone wrong. It can be selective avoidance of issues

addressed

> > > here. once

> > > > a paper is presented it should be so crystal clear n crisp

that

> > > follow

> > > > up questions need to be minimal otherwise the paper is

poorly

> > > written.

> > > > If i say this is the way to use Navamsha then i must also

show u

> > > how to

> > > > use D20, D45 otherwise its like teaching u half way with my

half

> > > baked

> > > > knowledge.

> > > > A person who is crystal clear in his intent with purity

would

> > not

> > > avoid

> > > > these questions in his teachings.

> > > >

> > > > Frustration

> > > > 14) Some members who are new here do not have the background

to

> > > see for

> > > > how many yrs this discussion has been happening, repeatedly

and

> > > > endlessly. In 2-3 yrs i would have written a book on that

topic

> > > instead.

> > > > It is this repeated discussion with selective answering

without

> > any

> > > > practical display of new theories or maybe old ones are what

> > makes

> > > us

> > > > frustrated to reply like this. Why the lack of patience

among old

> > > > members and why they choose to exit out of this group. I

always

> > > repeat

> > > > Lack of Moderation is a key issue in this group.

> > > >

> > > > Now I must end this and get out of the list, its been a

useless

> > > waste of

> > > > energies in the last 1 month. This same topic happens over

and

> > > over and

> > > > i still wait for them to erect 13 charts of Sagi lagna to

see if

> > > it is

> > > > Sagi lagna or not since the last 1 yr. Still i wait for them

to

> > > erect

> > > > more than 15 charts of Mahapurusha yoga to see if MPY is

present

> > > in it

> > > > or not. In 1.5 yrs they did not get time to do this, I think

it

> > > takes 30

> > > > mins maximum, hence i avoid discussions as its only Campism

here

> > in

> > > > jyotish forums and no true seeking of knowledge.

> > > >

> > > > Today the tables are turned and after 2.5yrs (Shani) one has

to

> > > taste

> > > > ones own medicines of Campism and PR astrology. As In Home

> > Alone -

> > > Kevin

> > > > says 'Eat this' or was it in MJ video

> > > >

> > > > best wishes

> > > >

> > > > Sunil John

> > > > Mumbai

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >