Out Sins will Haunt Us/ Theory Vs Predictors 4

[Guest guest]

Theory Vs Predictors 4

 

Our Sins will Haunt Us

 

 

 

Om Datta Guru

 

Dear Prafulla Bhai,

 

 

 

1) On the Vedic Astrology list of PVR there still exists a stalwart

who will answer every query on any difficult shloka and give a big

theory and make us understand. For yrs everyone there have admired this

South Indian Astrologer, I heard about him and saw 10 of his posts and

instantly recommended him to a friend of mine. He charged $100 to friend

and though friend did not have money he somehow collected it and took a

reading. The astrologer writes that Shani in Cancer would be a fantastic

year for him due to blah blah factors (these are the factors I have seen

all of us use in our everyday jyotish). The mans life got ruined (the

story of it will fill a book) and reported back that I had so highly

recommended this jyotish and the friend went on and on during Shanis

transit in Cancer hoping that the jyotishi's words would come true.

Now from the heart the friend must have gotten angry over the jyotish

and also me and he said to me something that everyone should say but

nobody does. He said `Will u bear the Sin of advising me to a

Jyotish who knows only Theory and has not tested Shanis transit over

50,000 charts but only gave long talks of Theory or will that jyotish

bear' `Next time never recommend anyone without knowing whether

he knows jyotish'.

 

 

I think how many of us, thousands would have learnt from that astrologer

of Vedic Astrology forum and used that technique on so many lives, how

many sins ohhh myyy . Maybe that is the reason why some astrologers

though famous have such a miserable ending. I remember Ranjan of Ranjan

Publications giving me a list of astrologers who are ruined themselves.

Ofcourse he had decades to observe this.

 

 

2) Who bears this Sin, I cannot forget this and many such incidents

where big names I have referred to my friends.

 

3) I think would this man be Saved if I or some Non-Spineless

member of these forums asked/requested/challenged this astrologer that I

speak of or any such astrologer who only gave long theories/produced

zero researches having tested it over 100s of charts & also 100s of

Blind Charts – trust me the last part is important u would agree

with me here as u have enough experience of jyotish more than me.

 

4) That is the reason I quoted on Sreenadhs list the Traditionalist

who was taught for 25 yrs, his knowledge tested and sharpened over

thousands of charts, before he was allowed to `Speak a Single Word

on Jyotish. Before he was allowed to `Publicly Predict on a Single

Chart' . Real Gurus know what is real parampara and do not allow

their students to become idiots.

 

5) KNRaos school of astrology is most fortunate, as he has even

written in JOA every technique is first tested over hundreds n thousands

of charts n also blind tested.

 

6) Rao Saheb has given enough examples of pundits who used

Kalachakra Dasa with miraculous predictions and their system of

calculating the dasa was much different than found in our classics so

what does it prove, do we have the right books or are they corrupted or

should we stick to them or open out and test. But astrologers will not

change.

 

7) Why do they not change since it is very Easy for them for yrs to

try to win debate everytime quoting KNRao told me this, told me that but

now they do not want to talk what KNRao says and that too in the most

basic part of astrology – divisional charts – for them earlier

it was only about winning arguments that is what lists are about now.

They camp together and hunt a person down, crucify him but when the same

medicine is used on them by nature they cry. I remember Bachchan now

`Tera Khoon Khoon, Mera Khoon Pani'

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil John,

 

I must compliment you for a very heart touching mail from you. and it is very

rare, that - we get to read such posts.

 

Please read my reply underneath your comments:

 

> 1) On the Vedic Astrology list of PVR there still exists a stalwart

> who will answer every query on any difficult shloka and give a big

> theory and make us understand. For yrs everyone there have admired this

> South Indian Astrologer, I heard about him and saw 10 of his posts and

> instantly recommended him to a friend of mine. He charged $100 to friend

> and though friend did not have money he somehow collected it and took a

> reading. The astrologer writes that Shani in Cancer would be a fantastic

> year for him due to blah blah factors (these are the factors I have seen

> all of us use in our everyday jyotish). The mans life got ruined (the

> story of it will fill a book) and reported back that I had so highly

> recommended this jyotish and the friend went on and on during Shanis

> transit in Cancer hoping that the jyotishi's words would come true.

> Now from the heart the friend must have gotten angry over the jyotish

> and also me and he said to me something that everyone should say but

> nobody does. He said `Will u bear the Sin of advising me to a

> Jyotish who knows only Theory and has not tested Shanis transit over

> 50,000 charts but only gave long talks of Theory or will that jyotish

> bear' `Next time never recommend anyone without knowing whether

> he knows jyotish'.

 

 

[Prafulla] The destiny is very tricky and complex issue..i could not understand

its rationale as yet. The astrologers - (cheap / expensive; free / paid;

traditionalists / modern; well read / less read) etc are supposed to predict for

the native. So they always carry additional responsiblity of guiding properly.

 

Unlike medicine / legal / accounting professions - this profession has no

prequalification norms. There is no such minimum qualification norms, for an

astrologer to pursue predictive jyotish. The natives are often, ignorant - and

at times, they are carried away by the knowledge base of the jyotishi

demonstrated. So - the moral (I will not use the term " karmic " ) responsibility

of such astrologer is often higher than the native. Understandably, if the

astrologer is rated well (for whatever reasons - including for his better

" marketing package " ) - native often tends to pursue in line with the astro

opinion. Here is the catch. Should native do that or not? or, a jyotishi must

warn him that these are indications; or a jyotishi must prepare native for good

/ bad events; and so on. Ideally - Jyotishi must use explicit disclaimers and

must be categoric that his opinion is suggestive.

 

But - when an astrologer is not careful for such disclaimers and /or - he

misleads the media (advertisements, TV, web, forums etc to generate business) by

his knowledge publicity and native falls into the trap - I am sure, God must

have done some arrangements for karmic phals.

 

This has been quite a popular practice in forums that - less experienced

astrologers predict quite briskly, without a consistent and successful

predictive model. Reading few books / web published literature or even shloka

does not make one jyotish student - a predictor. and the tendency spreads

amongst all for variety of human habbits.

 

If you observe the traditionalists - they are different. Firstly, a very few

traditionalist will predict without disclaimers. He normally prepares the native

to face good / bad. In my astro pursuits, I have spent lots of time in meeting

and observing traditionalists. Their approach is different. i recall one telling

me that - even mantra does not change the destiny, but it helps native in

preparing for bad (well - I am not an expert in remedies / mantras; so I am

simply reproducing it - without my opinion on it).

 

One more issue - which seperates internet jyotishi and traditionalists.

Interestingly - it is not the knowledge base, but the approach and priorities in

jyotish. Internet jyotishi - is better in terms of marketing packaging - through

shloka references, long explanations, using 20 methods to prove his knowledge

etc..Traditionalists keep the entire process simple - they do not quote shloka /

references / long explanations, and use their well tested methods.

Traditionalists heavily believes in feedback to see the effects, and will rarely

confuse clients by knowledge base. if you observe good traditionalists - they do

not spend more than 10/15 minutes per chart. Parampara jyotishi is even more

refined. In my observation - he will heavily rely on his proven inherited

methods and will not deviate from that; and he does not mix multiple methods in

the name of parampara.

 

 

>

>

> I think how many of us, thousands would have learnt from that astrologer

> of Vedic Astrology forum and used that technique on so many lives, how

> many sins ohhh myyy . Maybe that is the reason why some astrologers

> though famous have such a miserable ending. I remember Ranjan of Ranjan

> Publications giving me a list of astrologers who are ruined themselves.

> Ofcourse he had decades to observe this.

>

 

[Prafulla] - In my analogy, any transaction between two parties heavily depends

upon two key factors - ability and intention. Suppose i borrow money from you

and do not return the money - it can be either for my intention or for my

abilities to return money. If ability is lacking and I do not disclose you (and

try to mislead you) - it becomes sin; and so is if my intention is bad - then it

is sin. Applying the same parameter, internet jyotish fails the test of

intention as well as abilities. Firsly - glorious self appeasing or

mispresentation of knowledge misleads the ability of jyotishi; and secondly -

intention is more to get name/fame/money - not the native's perspective. Please

note that, taking money for the services is not sin - as it is profession; but

in my opinion - the misleading part becomes the crime.

 

>

> 2) Who bears this Sin, I cannot forget this and many such incidents

> where big names I have referred to my friends.

>

 

[Prafulla] - ofcourse the astrologer, and to an extent - the people, who are

participating in marketing package.

 

 

> 3) I think would this man be Saved if I or some Non-Spineless

> member of these forums asked/requested/challenged this astrologer that I

> speak of or any such astrologer who only gave long theories/produced

> zero researches having tested it over 100s of charts & also 100s of

> Blind Charts – trust me the last part is important u would agree

> with me here as u have enough experience of jyotish more than me.

>

 

[Prafulla] Well, I am still stuck at observational jyotish. But I certainly like

to read any theory with case studies. Without that, for me they are not worth

exploring further. and if astrologer is applying such methods - then it is

nothing but wrong, as native will take their prediction at face value. and His

sufferings will eventually come at astrologer.

 

I enjoy meeting and learning from traditionalist - as they do not apply new

theories on natives (even if they apply - they keep it to the observation). In

fact, if anyone wants to learn jyotish - one must spend time with

traditionalists for predicitve approach. Internet jyotishi can not be right set

of Guru or guide. But again, it is my personal opinion.

 

 

> 4) That is the reason I quoted on Sreenadhs list the Traditionalist

> who was taught for 25 yrs, his knowledge tested and sharpened over

> thousands of charts, before he was allowed to `Speak a Single Word

> on Jyotish. Before he was allowed to `Publicly Predict on a Single

> Chart' . Real Gurus know what is real parampara and do not allow

> their students to become idiots.

>

 

 

[Prafulla] In my view - those parampara jyotishi are not after fame and

exhibition of knowledge, like internet jyotishi are; and they are matured in

their predictive approach. Since - they do not mislead, they do not want their

audience to be suffering.

 

> 5) KNRaos school of astrology is most fortunate, as he has even

> written in JOA every technique is first tested over hundreds n thousands

> of charts n also blind tested.

>

> 6) Rao Saheb has given enough examples of pundits who used

> Kalachakra Dasa with miraculous predictions and their system of

> calculating the dasa was much different than found in our classics so

> what does it prove, do we have the right books or are they corrupted or

> should we stick to them or open out and test. But astrologers will not

> change.

>

 

[Prafulla] It is combination of all. What we read is not conclusive. so we got

to live and explore within this limitation. Hence, serious jyotishi focus on

what works, rather sticking to vedic origin and shloka.

 

 

> 7) Why do they not change since it is very Easy for them for yrs to

> try to win debate everytime quoting KNRao told me this, told me that but

> now they do not want to talk what KNRao says and that too in the most

> basic part of astrology – divisional charts – for them earlier

> it was only about winning arguments that is what lists are about now.

> They camp together and hunt a person down, crucify him but when the same

> medicine is used on them by nature they cry. I remember Bachchan now

> `Tera Khoon Khoon, Mera Khoon Pani'

>

 

 

[Prafulla] I have little problems with anyone camping to win a argument, as it

is their karma. I must focus on my karma. As I mentioned in earlier mail, each

one of us have different objective of forum participation. Few use forum to

demonstrate, and few to pick missing things for their predictive model. Just

like - watching a movie - few go to movie for entertainment, and few because

their spouse / family ask them to do it. First category people feel bad, if

movie was bad; and second one are not bothered - as long as their spouse /

family is happy.

 

This forum politics is not new from human habbits. Groupism is always there in

all form of community. and is acceptable, as long as - it permits an individual

to breathe. But when it becomes reckless, even winning the argument will not

satisfy people.

 

Sir - we all are running in rat race. Even if someone wins - he is still the

rat.

 

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

http://www.prafulla.net

 

Diplomacy - n. the patriotic act of lying for one's country / community.

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