Lagna Shadvargake Shloka - A Revisit/What is Lagna

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Dear Bhaskar ji

 

You have asked a very relevant question.

 

Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the first

Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is it

called Lagna?

 

Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

synonymns.

 

Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

analysed.

 

We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora lgna,ghatika

lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

 

When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

 

Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

 

All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You said in

your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is from

the Lagna where surya is placed.

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

>

> What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> lagnas, since actuially gemini

> or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> as the Lagnas.

>

> But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> used to consider the strength of the various planets

> and certain derivations.

>

> Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

>

> Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> cusps. But that is another story.....

>

> regards,

> bhaskar.

>

>

> -

---

> A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

>

> Question No, 70-

>

> Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal importance

> to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

>

> Answer by BV Raman-

>

> In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their astronomical

> positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

considered

> to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the planets are

> arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are found and

> named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is familiar to

all

> students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and Lagna

correct

> to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions in the

> Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions are alone

taken

> into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that the

seers

> who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it then we

do.

> They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also played a

> great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The Rasi

Kundali is

> an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical chart.

> -

----

>

>

>

>

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Prafulla ji

> >

> > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a good

> > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get new

charts

> > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help of

> > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have participated

> > using amshas alone.

> > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and with

God's

> > grace,it has come true.I have given many private predictions and

> > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me they have

> > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it doesnt

mean i

> > am not seeing charts.

> >

> > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very translator

of

> > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> >

> > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there is any

> > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing so many

> > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas and

imaginary

> > lagnas etc.

> >

> > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

imaginary?

> > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha and

Rashi.

> >

> > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas then there

is

> > no use at all in these discussons.

> >

> > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one who

cannot

> > predict with rashi chakra can never learn astrology.Amshas as

per me

> > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the grade of

> > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

corresponding

> > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi will help

us.

> > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

elapsed

> > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha will

help us.

> >

> > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords in

> > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of rashi

> > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as far as

amsha

> > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and mercury

in

> > 9th.

> >

> > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> >

> > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get numerous

personal

> > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the best of

my

> > ability.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> > -- In , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear pradeep ji

> > >

> > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am presenting

you

> > another rationale.

> > >

> > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in aspects

> > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference to its

> > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology has

used

> > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue here)

> > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

additional

> > aspects etc).

> > >

> > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D charts,

and

> > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of navapancham

> > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be derived.

Just

> > explore it and may be we are sitting with different conclusion.

But

> > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > >

> > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > >

> > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > ************************************************

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > >

> > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka - A

Revisit

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > >

> > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would

prefer to

> > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any

refrences

> > bout

> > > > house but amshas always.

> > > >

> > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar to

what

> > we

> > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose like

> > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have

deeper

> > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra you

can

> > see

> > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > >

> > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt ehe

> > amshas as

> > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a planet

is

> > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do

both.

> > > >

> > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can see

> > bhavat

> > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if you

draw

> > them

> > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi

> > chakra -did

> > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or Ghatika,you

can

> > take

> > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna

etc

> > from

> > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from amsha

> > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

definitions.They are

> > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern.

> > > >

> > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly

means

> > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

me.Rashige is

> > also

> > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said amshaka

has

> > to be

> > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and

> > explanations

> > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have shown

> > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > same.Neither

> > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were all

> > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may

like.If

> > any

> > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If not,that

is

> > ok too.

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > >>

> > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from yours

and

> > that

> > > > could

> > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a

> > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as advised by

> > > > Parashara,

> > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand everything

> > about a

> > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement of

> > bhava

> > > > lords.

> > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a jataka one

will

> > have

> > > > to

> > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart only.

As

> > to

> > > > the

> > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha is

> > concerned

> > > > that

> > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi chart

and

> > that

> > > > has

> > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha

chart. The

> > > > reason

> > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that is a

> > malefic

> > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is

said to

> > > > give

> > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that sthana

if

> > the

> > > > said

> > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time the

> > bhava

> > > > owned

> > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi than

the

> > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

occupying own

> > > > rasi in

> > > >> such a sthana).

> > > >>

> > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts where

> > Navamsha

> > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South Indians

only

> > > > write

> > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by

you.

> > Even

> > > > Dr.

> > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > >>

> > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules like

> > bhavas

> > > > etc.

> > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara

advising

> > to

> > > > draw

> > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as

the

> > rasi

> > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > >>

> > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a graha

has

> > > > amsha. It

> > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that has

> > > > traversed the

> > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > >>

> > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of

> > > > difference

> > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen in

rasi

> > > > chakra

> > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can not

take

> > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know

the

> > word

> > > > amsha

> > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > I

> > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > >>

> > > >> Take care,

> > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > >>>

> > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as well,you

know

> > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take

aspects

> > and

> > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within Rashi

> > chakra.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either write

on a

> > > > piece

> > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you can

> > mention

> > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south indians

used

> > to

> > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived amshas in

> > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a planet

> > > > falling

> > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see

saptamsha

> > of

> > > > a

> > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This

explains

> > > > the

> > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas in

Rashi

> > > > chakra.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a

planet

> > (not

> > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can be

used

> > > > for

> > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > shashtyamshas

> > > > are

> > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In

general

> > for

> > > > all

> > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find that

only

> > > > amshas

> > > >>> are used.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is possible

from

> > > > which

> > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This is

so,as

> > > > they

> > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the concern

> > raised by

> > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce

points

> > can

> > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra Lagna/Hora

> > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from the

same

> > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate

charts

> > but

> > > > it

> > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-Karakamsha

is the

> > > > rashi

> > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is the

Rashi

> > > > on to

> > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka is

the

> > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see

graha

> > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see Rajayoga.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see the

> > > > strength

> > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what i am

> > > > trying to

> > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a graha

is

> > having

> > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the said

> > > > garaha in

> > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting or

> > joining

> > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the Rashi

on to

> > > > which

> > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK is

having

> > > > amsha

> > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha

> > grahas -

> > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope he

> > takes

> > > > this

> > > >>> as a request.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha

> > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha

> > drishti.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha Mihira

> > list or

> > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is having

> > identical

> > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

criticising

> > the

> > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

assume ,a

> > > > short

> > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am

pretty

> > sure

> > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do not get

> > swayed

> > > > so

> > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always been good

> > lessons

> > > > for

> > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere in

my

> > mind

> > > > i

> > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If not kindly

> > > > pardon.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Respect

> > > >>> Pradeep

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have been

> > > > better

> > > >>> if you

> > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you refer

to.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no divisional

> > charts

> > > > to

> > > >>> be

> > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

propounded

> > by

> > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation of

> > grahas?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at

all the

> > > >>> results

> > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha if

no

> > > > charts

> > > >>> are

> > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > shubhe

> > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte jaato

> > raajaa

> > > >>> bhavati

> > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics occupying

the

> > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can not be

> > > >>> interpreted

> > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one has

an

> > > > over

> > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did

talk

> > about

> > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that do

not

> > > > talk

> > > >>> about

> > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's reactions

on the

> > > >>> shloka

> > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he has

to

> > say.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up charts

for

> > > > Ghati

> > > >>> lagna,

> > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at all.

So

> > the

> > > >>> theory

> > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart can be

> > > > drawn up

> > > >>> is

> > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters of what

> > > > Parashara

> > > >>> said.

> > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

kramaadeSaaM

> > ca

> > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa yatra me

> > > > tatra te

> > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members again to

the

> > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna

> > > > Shadvargake

> > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due

> > > > attention

> > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of our

doubts.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in all

the

> > > > six

> > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet, it

> > > >>> constitutes

> > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the

> > > > strength of

> > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is

rasi

> > > > drishti

> > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of full,

half

> > > > and

> > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha drishti

> > > > based on

> > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there are

no

> > > > grades

> > > >>> of

> > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as Sage

is

> > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna will

fall

> > > > on

> > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

placements can

> > > >>> aspect

> > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought which

are

> > not

> > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is talking

about

> > > >>> Vargas

> > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my

doubt.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not

> > > >>> translate

> > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I see no

> > > > scope to

> > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam

wrote

> > > > the

> > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional

charts

> > > > here. I

> > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in

> > divisional

> > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the longitudinal

> > > > aspectual

> > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting

further

> > > > on

> > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this

fully. "

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

''Aspects are

> > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is

just

> > his

> > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

Shadvargake -

> > > >>> pointing

> > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars who

were

> > > >>> trying

> > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded

notion

> > > > that

> > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against the

> > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

scholars of

> > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

defintion.But

> > > > why

> > > >>> did

> > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -Probably

as

> > > > vargas

> > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse

they all

> > > > fall

> > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

Demonstrating

> > > > his

> > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic in

> > > > aspects

> > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to the

> > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

chapter''.

> > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an aspect

can

> > > > happen.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the manuscripts

(yes

> > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i had

> > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a

different

> > > >>> story.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

Mahamuni

> > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas

> > interpreted

> > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able to

understand

> > > >>> these

> > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka roots

back

> > > > to

> > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha roots

back

> > to

> > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots back

as per

> > > > them

> > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi

chakra

> > > > as

> > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

intelligence and

> > > >>> leave

> > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the great

souls

> > > > as

> > > >>> all

> > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil -

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use an

eraser

> > > > to

> > > >>> rub

> > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting something

we did

> > > > is

> > > >>> not

> > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the road

to

> > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> ------------------------

-

> > > >>> ------

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release

> > > > Date:

> > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeepji,

 

I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

to explain properly, it seems.

When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

(The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

 

I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

is important, though it may be symbolic and not

physical.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji

>

> You have asked a very relevant question.

>

> Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the first

> Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is it

> called Lagna?

>

> Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> synonymns.

>

> Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> analysed.

>

> We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora lgna,ghatika

> lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

>

> When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

>

> Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

>

> All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You said in

> your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is from

> the Lagna where surya is placed.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> >

> > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > as the Lagnas.

> >

> > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > and certain derivations.

> >

> > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> >

> > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > cusps. But that is another story.....

> >

> > regards,

> > bhaskar.

> >

> >

> > -

> ---

> > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> >

> > Question No, 70-

> >

> > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal importance

> > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> >

> > Answer by BV Raman-

> >

> > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their astronomical

> > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> considered

> > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the planets are

> > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are found and

> > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is familiar to

> all

> > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and Lagna

> correct

> > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions in the

> > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions are alone

> taken

> > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that the

> seers

> > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it then we

> do.

> > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also played a

> > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The Rasi

> Kundali is

> > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical chart.

> > -

> ----

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > >

> > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a good

> > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get new

> charts

> > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help of

> > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have participated

> > > using amshas alone.

> > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and with

> God's

> > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private predictions and

> > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me they have

> > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it doesnt

> mean i

> > > am not seeing charts.

> > >

> > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very translator

> of

> > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > >

> > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there is any

> > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing so many

> > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas and

> imaginary

> > > lagnas etc.

> > >

> > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> imaginary?

> > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha and

> Rashi.

> > >

> > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas then there

> is

> > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > >

> > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one who

> cannot

> > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn astrology.Amshas as

> per me

> > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the grade of

> > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> corresponding

> > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi will help

> us.

> > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> elapsed

> > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha will

> help us.

> > >

> > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords in

> > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of rashi

> > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as far as

> amsha

> > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and mercury

> in

> > > 9th.

> > >

> > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > >

> > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get numerous

> personal

> > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the best of

> my

> > > ability.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > > -- In , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > >

> > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am presenting

> you

> > > another rationale.

> > > >

> > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in aspects

> > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference to its

> > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology has

> used

> > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue here)

> > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> additional

> > > aspects etc).

> > > >

> > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D charts,

> and

> > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of navapancham

> > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be derived.

> Just

> > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different conclusion.

> But

> > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > >

> > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > >

> > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > ************************************************

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > >

> > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka - A

> Revisit

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would

> prefer to

> > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any

> refrences

> > > bout

> > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > >

> > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar to

> what

> > > we

> > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose like

> > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have

> deeper

> > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra you

> can

> > > see

> > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt ehe

> > > amshas as

> > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a planet

> is

> > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do

> both.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can see

> > > bhavat

> > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if you

> draw

> > > them

> > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi

> > > chakra -did

> > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or Ghatika,you

> can

> > > take

> > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna

> etc

> > > from

> > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from amsha

> > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> definitions.They are

> > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly

> means

> > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> me.Rashige is

> > > also

> > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said amshaka

> has

> > > to be

> > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and

> > > explanations

> > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have shown

> > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > same.Neither

> > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were all

> > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may

> like.If

> > > any

> > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If not,that

> is

> > > ok too.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >>

> > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from yours

> and

> > > that

> > > > > could

> > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a

> > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as advised by

> > > > > Parashara,

> > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand everything

> > > about a

> > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement of

> > > bhava

> > > > > lords.

> > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a jataka one

> will

> > > have

> > > > > to

> > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart only.

> As

> > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha is

> > > concerned

> > > > > that

> > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi chart

> and

> > > that

> > > > > has

> > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha

> chart. The

> > > > > reason

> > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that is a

> > > malefic

> > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is

> said to

> > > > > give

> > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that sthana

> if

> > > the

> > > > > said

> > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time the

> > > bhava

> > > > > owned

> > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi than

> the

> > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> occupying own

> > > > > rasi in

> > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > >>

> > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts where

> > > Navamsha

> > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South Indians

> only

> > > > > write

> > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by

> you.

> > > Even

> > > > > Dr.

> > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules like

> > > bhavas

> > > > > etc.

> > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara

> advising

> > > to

> > > > > draw

> > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as

> the

> > > rasi

> > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a graha

> has

> > > > > amsha. It

> > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that has

> > > > > traversed the

> > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of

> > > > > difference

> > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen in

> rasi

> > > > > chakra

> > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can not

> take

> > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know

> the

> > > word

> > > > > amsha

> > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > I

> > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Take care,

> > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as well,you

> know

> > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take

> aspects

> > > and

> > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within Rashi

> > > chakra.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either write

> on a

> > > > > piece

> > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you can

> > > mention

> > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south indians

> used

> > > to

> > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived amshas in

> > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a planet

> > > > > falling

> > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see

> saptamsha

> > > of

> > > > > a

> > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This

> explains

> > > > > the

> > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas in

> Rashi

> > > > > chakra.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a

> planet

> > > (not

> > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can be

> used

> > > > > for

> > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > are

> > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In

> general

> > > for

> > > > > all

> > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find that

> only

> > > > > amshas

> > > > >>> are used.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is possible

> from

> > > > > which

> > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This is

> so,as

> > > > > they

> > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the concern

> > > raised by

> > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce

> points

> > > can

> > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra Lagna/Hora

> > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from the

> same

> > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate

> charts

> > > but

> > > > > it

> > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-Karakamsha

> is the

> > > > > rashi

> > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is the

> Rashi

> > > > > on to

> > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka is

> the

> > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see

> graha

> > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see Rajayoga.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see the

> > > > > strength

> > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what i am

> > > > > trying to

> > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a graha

> is

> > > having

> > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the said

> > > > > garaha in

> > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting or

> > > joining

> > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the Rashi

> on to

> > > > > which

> > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK is

> having

> > > > > amsha

> > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha

> > > grahas -

> > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope he

> > > takes

> > > > > this

> > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha

> > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha

> > > drishti.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha Mihira

> > > list or

> > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is having

> > > identical

> > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> criticising

> > > the

> > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> assume ,a

> > > > > short

> > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am

> pretty

> > > sure

> > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do not get

> > > swayed

> > > > > so

> > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always been good

> > > lessons

> > > > > for

> > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere in

> my

> > > mind

> > > > > i

> > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If not kindly

> > > > > pardon.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Respect

> > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have been

> > > > > better

> > > > >>> if you

> > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you refer

> to.

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no divisional

> > > charts

> > > > > to

> > > > >>> be

> > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> propounded

> > > by

> > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation of

> > > grahas?

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at

> all the

> > > > >>> results

> > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha if

> no

> > > > > charts

> > > > >>> are

> > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > shubhe

> > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte jaato

> > > raajaa

> > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics occupying

> the

> > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can not be

> > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one has

> an

> > > > > over

> > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did

> talk

> > > about

> > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that do

> not

> > > > > talk

> > > > >>> about

> > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's reactions

> on the

> > > > >>> shloka

> > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he has

> to

> > > say.

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up charts

> for

> > > > > Ghati

> > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at all.

> So

> > > the

> > > > >>> theory

> > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart can be

> > > > > drawn up

> > > > >>> is

> > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters of what

> > > > > Parashara

> > > > >>> said.

> > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> kramaadeSaaM

> > > ca

> > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa yatra me

> > > > > tatra te

> > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members again to

> the

> > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna

> > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due

> > > > > attention

> > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of our

> doubts.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in all

> the

> > > > > six

> > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet, it

> > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the

> > > > > strength of

> > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is

> rasi

> > > > > drishti

> > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of full,

> half

> > > > > and

> > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha drishti

> > > > > based on

> > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there are

> no

> > > > > grades

> > > > >>> of

> > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as Sage

> is

> > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna will

> fall

> > > > > on

> > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> placements can

> > > > >>> aspect

> > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought which

> are

> > > not

> > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is talking

> about

> > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my

> doubt.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not

> > > > >>> translate

> > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I see no

> > > > > scope to

> > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam

> wrote

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional

> charts

> > > > > here. I

> > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in

> > > divisional

> > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the longitudinal

> > > > > aspectual

> > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting

> further

> > > > > on

> > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this

> fully. "

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> ''Aspects are

> > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is

> just

> > > his

> > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> Shadvargake -

> > > > >>> pointing

> > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars who

> were

> > > > >>> trying

> > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded

> notion

> > > > > that

> > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against the

> > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> scholars of

> > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> defintion.But

> > > > > why

> > > > >>> did

> > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -Probably

> as

> > > > > vargas

> > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse

> they all

> > > > > fall

> > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> Demonstrating

> > > > > his

> > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic in

> > > > > aspects

> > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to the

> > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> chapter''.

> > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an aspect

> can

> > > > > happen.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the manuscripts

> (yes

> > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i had

> > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a

> different

> > > > >>> story.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> Mahamuni

> > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas

> > > interpreted

> > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able to

> understand

> > > > >>> these

> > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka roots

> back

> > > > > to

> > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha roots

> back

> > > to

> > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots back

> as per

> > > > > them

> > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi

> chakra

> > > > > as

> > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> intelligence and

> > > > >>> leave

> > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the great

> souls

> > > > > as

> > > > >>> all

> > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil -

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use an

> eraser

> > > > > to

> > > > >>> rub

> > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting something

> we did

> > > > > is

> > > > >>> not

> > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the road

> to

> > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> ------------------------

> -

> > > > >>> ------

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji ,

 

Sorry to jump into your thread.

 

But i think Shastra dont say that the system which we are following

is according to Shatra.

 

This is placidus system of greek methodology to divide chart in

houses.

 

Because the real system according to nadi is nakshatra. I hope i m

not misguiding the thread.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeepji,

>

> I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> to explain properly, it seems.

> When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

>

> I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> physical.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji

> >

> > You have asked a very relevant question.

> >

> > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the

first

> > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is it

> > called Lagna?

> >

> > Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > synonymns.

> >

> > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> > analysed.

> >

> > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora lgna,ghatika

> > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> >

> > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> >

> > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> >

> > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You said in

> > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is from

> > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > >

> > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > as the Lagnas.

> > >

> > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > and certain derivations.

> > >

> > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > >

> > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > > -------------------------------

---

> > ---

> > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > >

> > > Question No, 70-

> > >

> > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

importance

> > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > >

> > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > >

> > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

astronomical

> > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> > considered

> > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the planets

are

> > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are found

and

> > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is familiar

to

> > all

> > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and Lagna

> > correct

> > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions in the

> > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions are

alone

> > taken

> > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that the

> > seers

> > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it then

we

> > do.

> > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also

played a

> > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The Rasi

> > Kundali is

> > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical chart.

> > > -------------------------------

---

> > ----

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > >

> > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a

good

> > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get new

> > charts

> > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help of

> > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

participated

> > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and with

> > God's

> > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private predictions

and

> > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me they

have

> > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it doesnt

> > mean i

> > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > >

> > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

translator

> > of

> > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > >

> > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there is

any

> > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing so

many

> > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas and

> > imaginary

> > > > lagnas etc.

> > > >

> > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > imaginary?

> > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha and

> > Rashi.

> > > >

> > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas then

there

> > is

> > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > >

> > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one who

> > cannot

> > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn astrology.Amshas as

> > per me

> > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the grade of

> > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > corresponding

> > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi will

help

> > us.

> > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> > elapsed

> > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha will

> > help us.

> > > >

> > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords in

> > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of

rashi

> > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as far as

> > amsha

> > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

mercury

> > in

> > > > 9th.

> > > >

> > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > >

> > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get numerous

> > personal

> > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the best

of

> > my

> > > > ability.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > >

> > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

presenting

> > you

> > > > another rationale.

> > > > >

> > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in

aspects

> > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference to

its

> > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology has

> > used

> > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue

here)

> > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> > additional

> > > > aspects etc).

> > > > >

> > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D charts,

> > and

> > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of navapancham

> > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be derived.

> > Just

> > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

conclusion.

> > But

> > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > >

> > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > ************************************************

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka - A

> > Revisit

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would

> > prefer to

> > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any

> > refrences

> > > > bout

> > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar

to

> > what

> > > > we

> > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose

like

> > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have

> > deeper

> > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra

you

> > can

> > > > see

> > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt

ehe

> > > > amshas as

> > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a

planet

> > is

> > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do

> > both.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can

see

> > > > bhavat

> > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if

you

> > draw

> > > > them

> > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi

> > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

Ghatika,you

> > can

> > > > take

> > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna

> > etc

> > > > from

> > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from

amsha

> > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > definitions.They are

> > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly

> > means

> > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > me.Rashige is

> > > > also

> > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

amshaka

> > has

> > > > to be

> > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and

> > > > explanations

> > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have

shown

> > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were

all

> > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may

> > like.If

> > > > any

> > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

not,that

> > is

> > > > ok too.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from yours

> > and

> > > > that

> > > > > > could

> > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a

> > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

advised by

> > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

everything

> > > > about a

> > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement

of

> > > > bhava

> > > > > > lords.

> > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a jataka

one

> > will

> > > > have

> > > > > > to

> > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart

only.

> > As

> > > > to

> > > > > > the

> > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha

is

> > > > concerned

> > > > > > that

> > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi

chart

> > and

> > > > that

> > > > > > has

> > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha

> > chart. The

> > > > > > reason

> > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that

is a

> > > > malefic

> > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is

> > said to

> > > > > > give

> > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that

sthana

> > if

> > > > the

> > > > > > said

> > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time

the

> > > > bhava

> > > > > > owned

> > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi

than

> > the

> > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > occupying own

> > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts

where

> > > > Navamsha

> > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South

Indians

> > only

> > > > > > write

> > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by

> > you.

> > > > Even

> > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules

like

> > > > bhavas

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara

> > advising

> > > > to

> > > > > > draw

> > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as

> > the

> > > > rasi

> > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a

graha

> > has

> > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that

has

> > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of

> > > > > > difference

> > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen

in

> > rasi

> > > > > > chakra

> > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can

not

> > take

> > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know

> > the

> > > > word

> > > > > > amsha

> > > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as well,you

> > know

> > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take

> > aspects

> > > > and

> > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within

Rashi

> > > > chakra.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either

write

> > on a

> > > > > > piece

> > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you

can

> > > > mention

> > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

indians

> > used

> > > > to

> > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

amshas in

> > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a

planet

> > > > > > falling

> > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see

> > saptamsha

> > > > of

> > > > > > a

> > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This

> > explains

> > > > > > the

> > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas

in

> > Rashi

> > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a

> > planet

> > > > (not

> > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can

be

> > used

> > > > > > for

> > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > are

> > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In

> > general

> > > > for

> > > > > > all

> > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find

that

> > only

> > > > > > amshas

> > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

possible

> > from

> > > > > > which

> > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This

is

> > so,as

> > > > > > they

> > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

concern

> > > > raised by

> > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce

> > points

> > > > can

> > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

Lagna/Hora

> > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from

the

> > same

> > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate

> > charts

> > > > but

> > > > > > it

> > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

Karakamsha

> > is the

> > > > > > rashi

> > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is

the

> > Rashi

> > > > > > on to

> > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka

is

> > the

> > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see

> > graha

> > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

Rajayoga.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see

the

> > > > > > strength

> > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what

i am

> > > > > > trying to

> > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a

graha

> > is

> > > > having

> > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the

said

> > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting

or

> > > > joining

> > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the

Rashi

> > on to

> > > > > > which

> > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK

is

> > having

> > > > > > amsha

> > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha

> > > > grahas -

> > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope

he

> > > > takes

> > > > > > this

> > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha

> > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha

> > > > drishti.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha

Mihira

> > > > list or

> > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

having

> > > > identical

> > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > criticising

> > > > the

> > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> > assume ,a

> > > > > > short

> > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am

> > pretty

> > > > sure

> > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do not

get

> > > > swayed

> > > > > > so

> > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always been

good

> > > > lessons

> > > > > > for

> > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere

in

> > my

> > > > mind

> > > > > > i

> > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If not

kindly

> > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have

been

> > > > > > better

> > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you

refer

> > to.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

divisional

> > > > charts

> > > > > > to

> > > > > >>> be

> > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> > propounded

> > > > by

> > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation

of

> > > > grahas?

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at

> > all the

> > > > > >>> results

> > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha

if

> > no

> > > > > > charts

> > > > > >>> are

> > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte

jaato

> > > > raajaa

> > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

occupying

> > the

> > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can

not be

> > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one

has

> > an

> > > > > > over

> > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did

> > talk

> > > > about

> > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that

do

> > not

> > > > > > talk

> > > > > >>> about

> > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

reactions

> > on the

> > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he

has

> > to

> > > > say.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

charts

> > for

> > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at

all.

> > So

> > > > the

> > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart

can be

> > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > >>> is

> > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters of

what

> > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > ca

> > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa

yatra me

> > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members again

to

> > the

> > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna

> > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due

> > > > > > attention

> > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of our

> > doubts.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in

all

> > the

> > > > > > six

> > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet,

it

> > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the

> > > > > > strength of

> > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is

> > rasi

> > > > > > drishti

> > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of

full,

> > half

> > > > > > and

> > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha

drishti

> > > > > > based on

> > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there

are

> > no

> > > > > > grades

> > > > > >>> of

> > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as

Sage

> > is

> > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna

will

> > fall

> > > > > > on

> > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > placements can

> > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought

which

> > are

> > > > not

> > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

talking

> > about

> > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my

> > doubt.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did

not

> > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I

see no

> > > > > > scope to

> > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam

> > wrote

> > > > > > the

> > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional

> > charts

> > > > > > here. I

> > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in

> > > > divisional

> > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

longitudinal

> > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting

> > further

> > > > > > on

> > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this

> > fully. "

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > ''Aspects are

> > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is

> > just

> > > > his

> > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > Shadvargake -

> > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars

who

> > were

> > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded

> > notion

> > > > > > that

> > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against

the

> > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> > scholars of

> > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > defintion.But

> > > > > > why

> > > > > >>> did

> > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

Probably

> > as

> > > > > > vargas

> > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse

> > they all

> > > > > > fall

> > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > Demonstrating

> > > > > > his

> > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic

in

> > > > > > aspects

> > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to

the

> > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> > chapter''.

> > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

aspect

> > can

> > > > > > happen.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

manuscripts

> > (yes

> > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i

had

> > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a

> > different

> > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> > Mahamuni

> > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas

> > > > interpreted

> > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able to

> > understand

> > > > > >>> these

> > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka

roots

> > back

> > > > > > to

> > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha

roots

> > back

> > > > to

> > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots

back

> > as per

> > > > > > them

> > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi

> > chakra

> > > > > > as

> > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > intelligence and

> > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the

great

> > souls

> > > > > > as

> > > > > >>> all

> > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil -

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use

an

> > eraser

> > > > > > to

> > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

something

> > we did

> > > > > > is

> > > > > >>> not

> > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the

road

> > to

> > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> ---------------------

---

> > -

> > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

Release

> > > > > > Date:

> > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Tarunji,

 

You are right .

 

The ancient predictions were totally

based on Nakshatras and such pointers.

 

The Jyotish shastra as mentioned in the

Rigveda , consists of 52 verses only.

Infact the whole of Jyotish Shastra then

consisted of observing the movements of

the Sun,The Moon, the earth, and their

passage through Nakshatras and assigning

a certain significance to them.

 

The ancients wholly depended on the Nakshatras

and their qualities.It must not be supposed

that no mention is made in regard to signs of

the zodiac, in Rigveda, as the Rashi

had no existence then. The division of the

Zodiac into twelve parts were known to the

Hindus in those times,but then the 12 parts

were then known by different name.

 

" Dwadasharam na hi Tajjaray Varvartichakram

pariddhyamrtasya,

aaputra agne Mithunaso atra Saptashatani

vishaticscha tasthu- hu "

 

I hope some Sanskrit scholar here can translate

this and tell us the meaning of this shloka.

 

Whenever I have time I will write more on the

ancient proof of prognostications through

such methods.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

, " Tarun " <tarun.virgo wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji ,

>

> Sorry to jump into your thread.

>

> But i think Shastra dont say that the system which we are following

> is according to Shatra.

>

> This is placidus system of greek methodology to divide chart in

> houses.

>

> Because the real system according to nadi is nakshatra. I hope i m

> not misguiding the thread.

>

> Regards,

>

> Tarun

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeepji,

> >

> > I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> > to explain properly, it seems.

> > When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> > Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> > Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> > consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> > imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> > house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> > we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> > Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> > Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> > imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> > (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

> >

> > I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> > consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> > in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> > is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> > physical.

> >

> > regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > >

> > > You have asked a very relevant question.

> > >

> > > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the

> first

> > > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is it

> > > called Lagna?

> > >

> > > Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > > synonymns.

> > >

> > > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> > > analysed.

> > >

> > > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora lgna,ghatika

> > > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> > >

> > > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> > >

> > > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> > >

> > > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You said in

> > > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is from

> > > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > > >

> > > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > > as the Lagnas.

> > > >

> > > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > > and certain derivations.

> > > >

> > > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > > >

> > > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -------------------------------

> ---

> > > ---

> > > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > > >

> > > > Question No, 70-

> > > >

> > > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

> importance

> > > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > > >

> > > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > > >

> > > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

> astronomical

> > > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> > > considered

> > > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the planets

> are

> > > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are found

> and

> > > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is familiar

> to

> > > all

> > > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and Lagna

> > > correct

> > > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions in the

> > > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions are

> alone

> > > taken

> > > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that the

> > > seers

> > > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it then

> we

> > > do.

> > > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also

> played a

> > > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The Rasi

> > > Kundali is

> > > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical chart.

> > > > -------------------------------

> ---

> > > ----

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a

> good

> > > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get new

> > > charts

> > > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help of

> > > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

> participated

> > > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and with

> > > God's

> > > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private predictions

> and

> > > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me they

> have

> > > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it doesnt

> > > mean i

> > > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

> translator

> > > of

> > > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there is

> any

> > > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing so

> many

> > > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas and

> > > imaginary

> > > > > lagnas etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > > imaginary?

> > > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha and

> > > Rashi.

> > > > >

> > > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas then

> there

> > > is

> > > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one who

> > > cannot

> > > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn astrology.Amshas as

> > > per me

> > > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the grade of

> > > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > > corresponding

> > > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi will

> help

> > > us.

> > > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> > > elapsed

> > > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha will

> > > help us.

> > > > >

> > > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords in

> > > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of

> rashi

> > > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as far as

> > > amsha

> > > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

> mercury

> > > in

> > > > > 9th.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > > >

> > > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get numerous

> > > personal

> > > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the best

> of

> > > my

> > > > > ability.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

> presenting

> > > you

> > > > > another rationale.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in

> aspects

> > > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference to

> its

> > > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology has

> > > used

> > > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue

> here)

> > > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> > > additional

> > > > > aspects etc).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D charts,

> > > and

> > > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of navapancham

> > > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be derived.

> > > Just

> > > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

> conclusion.

> > > But

> > > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > > ************************************************

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka - A

> > > Revisit

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would

> > > prefer to

> > > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any

> > > refrences

> > > > > bout

> > > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar

> to

> > > what

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose

> like

> > > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have

> > > deeper

> > > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra

> you

> > > can

> > > > > see

> > > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt

> ehe

> > > > > amshas as

> > > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a

> planet

> > > is

> > > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do

> > > both.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can

> see

> > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if

> you

> > > draw

> > > > > them

> > > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi

> > > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

> Ghatika,you

> > > can

> > > > > take

> > > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna

> > > etc

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from

> amsha

> > > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > > definitions.They are

> > > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly

> > > means

> > > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > > me.Rashige is

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

> amshaka

> > > has

> > > > > to be

> > > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and

> > > > > explanations

> > > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have

> shown

> > > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were

> all

> > > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may

> > > like.If

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

> not,that

> > > is

> > > > > ok too.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from yours

> > > and

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > could

> > > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a

> > > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

> advised by

> > > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

> everything

> > > > > about a

> > > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement

> of

> > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > lords.

> > > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a jataka

> one

> > > will

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart

> only.

> > > As

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha

> is

> > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi

> chart

> > > and

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha

> > > chart. The

> > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that

> is a

> > > > > malefic

> > > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is

> > > said to

> > > > > > > give

> > > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that

> sthana

> > > if

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > said

> > > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time

> the

> > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > owned

> > > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi

> than

> > > the

> > > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > > occupying own

> > > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts

> where

> > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South

> Indians

> > > only

> > > > > > > write

> > > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by

> > > you.

> > > > > Even

> > > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules

> like

> > > > > bhavas

> > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara

> > > advising

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > draw

> > > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as

> > > the

> > > > > rasi

> > > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a

> graha

> > > has

> > > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that

> has

> > > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of

> > > > > > > difference

> > > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen

> in

> > > rasi

> > > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can

> not

> > > take

> > > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know

> > > the

> > > > > word

> > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as well,you

> > > know

> > > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take

> > > aspects

> > > > > and

> > > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within

> Rashi

> > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either

> write

> > > on a

> > > > > > > piece

> > > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you

> can

> > > > > mention

> > > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

> indians

> > > used

> > > > > to

> > > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

> amshas in

> > > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a

> planet

> > > > > > > falling

> > > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see

> > > saptamsha

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This

> > > explains

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas

> in

> > > Rashi

> > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a

> > > planet

> > > > > (not

> > > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can

> be

> > > used

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In

> > > general

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find

> that

> > > only

> > > > > > > amshas

> > > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

> possible

> > > from

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This

> is

> > > so,as

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

> concern

> > > > > raised by

> > > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce

> > > points

> > > > > can

> > > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

> Lagna/Hora

> > > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from

> the

> > > same

> > > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate

> > > charts

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

> Karakamsha

> > > is the

> > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is

> the

> > > Rashi

> > > > > > > on to

> > > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka

> is

> > > the

> > > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see

> > > graha

> > > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

> Rajayoga.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see

> the

> > > > > > > strength

> > > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what

> i am

> > > > > > > trying to

> > > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a

> graha

> > > is

> > > > > having

> > > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the

> said

> > > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting

> or

> > > > > joining

> > > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the

> Rashi

> > > on to

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK

> is

> > > having

> > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha

> > > > > grahas -

> > > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope

> he

> > > > > takes

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha

> > > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha

> > > > > drishti.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha

> Mihira

> > > > > list or

> > > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

> having

> > > > > identical

> > > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > > criticising

> > > > > the

> > > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> > > assume ,a

> > > > > > > short

> > > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am

> > > pretty

> > > > > sure

> > > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do not

> get

> > > > > swayed

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always been

> good

> > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere

> in

> > > my

> > > > > mind

> > > > > > > i

> > > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If not

> kindly

> > > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have

> been

> > > > > > > better

> > > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you

> refer

> > > to.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

> divisional

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >>> be

> > > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> > > propounded

> > > > > by

> > > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation

> of

> > > > > grahas?

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at

> > > all the

> > > > > > >>> results

> > > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha

> if

> > > no

> > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > >>> are

> > > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte

> jaato

> > > > > raajaa

> > > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

> occupying

> > > the

> > > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can

> not be

> > > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one

> has

> > > an

> > > > > > > over

> > > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did

> > > talk

> > > > > about

> > > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that

> do

> > > not

> > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > >>> about

> > > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

> reactions

> > > on the

> > > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he

> has

> > > to

> > > > > say.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

> charts

> > > for

> > > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at

> all.

> > > So

> > > > > the

> > > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart

> can be

> > > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > > >>> is

> > > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters of

> what

> > > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > > ca

> > > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa

> yatra me

> > > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members again

> to

> > > the

> > > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna

> > > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due

> > > > > > > attention

> > > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of our

> > > doubts.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in

> all

> > > the

> > > > > > > six

> > > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet,

> it

> > > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the

> > > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is

> > > rasi

> > > > > > > drishti

> > > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of

> full,

> > > half

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha

> drishti

> > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there

> are

> > > no

> > > > > > > grades

> > > > > > >>> of

> > > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as

> Sage

> > > is

> > > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna

> will

> > > fall

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > > placements can

> > > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought

> which

> > > are

> > > > > not

> > > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

> talking

> > > about

> > > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my

> > > doubt.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did

> not

> > > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I

> see no

> > > > > > > scope to

> > > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam

> > > wrote

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional

> > > charts

> > > > > > > here. I

> > > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in

> > > > > divisional

> > > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

> longitudinal

> > > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting

> > > further

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this

> > > fully. "

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > > ''Aspects are

> > > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is

> > > just

> > > > > his

> > > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > > Shadvargake -

> > > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars

> who

> > > were

> > > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded

> > > notion

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against

> the

> > > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> > > scholars of

> > > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > > defintion.But

> > > > > > > why

> > > > > > >>> did

> > > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

> Probably

> > > as

> > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse

> > > they all

> > > > > > > fall

> > > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > > Demonstrating

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic

> in

> > > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to

> the

> > > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> > > chapter''.

> > > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

> aspect

> > > can

> > > > > > > happen.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

> manuscripts

> > > (yes

> > > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i

> had

> > > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a

> > > different

> > > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> > > Mahamuni

> > > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas

> > > > > interpreted

> > > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able to

> > > understand

> > > > > > >>> these

> > > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka

> roots

> > > back

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha

> roots

> > > back

> > > > > to

> > > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots

> back

> > > as per

> > > > > > > them

> > > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi

> > > chakra

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > > intelligence and

> > > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the

> great

> > > souls

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > >>> all

> > > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil -

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use

> an

> > > eraser

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

> something

> > > we did

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > >>> not

> > > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the

> road

> > > to

> > > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> ---------------------

> ---

> > > -

> > > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji

 

I wil try to explain again with whatever knowledge that i possess.

 

Not only the ascending degree,but the degrees ofthe planets as well

is the decidin factor.They are not imgaginary ,but an astronomical

fact.Lagna navamsha sector too is an astronomical degree.The point is

why do we have 9 different aries navamshas within rashi chakra.Why

all those sectors link to Aries.It means due to tattwa

patterns,certain points in space and time are interelated.Rashi is a

collection of tattwa.These 9 sectors thus relate to one collective

tattwa called Rashi.

 

As Rashi and Bhava are syonymns ,bhava has to be analysed from a

rashi of 30 degrees.

 

Thus the rashi/lagna on to which lagna bindu is falling becomes Birth

Lagna.The Rashi/Lagna on to which Chndra indu falls becomes Chandra

Lagna and similarly Surya.

 

The rashi on to which Karaka graha bindu is relating through

navamsha ,becomes Karakamsha lagna.Similarly if you can relate the

rashi on to which Lagna bindu is relting through navamsha,it becomes

lagna navamsha.From this Rashi you can see,bhavas similar to bhavat

bhavam.Aspects are based on the plantary placements w.r tthis rashi.

 

What you see in navamsha chakra are showing amsha rashi link.They are

not astronomically placed (as Dr.Raman has said) to have

aspect,though Dr.Raman considers aspect.

 

Thanks

Pradeep

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeepji,

>

> I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> to explain properly, it seems.

> When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

>

> I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> physical.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji

> >

> > You have asked a very relevant question.

> >

> > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the

first

> > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is it

> > called Lagna?

> >

> > Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > synonymns.

> >

> > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> > analysed.

> >

> > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora lgna,ghatika

> > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> >

> > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> >

> > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> >

> > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You said in

> > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is from

> > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > >

> > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > as the Lagnas.

> > >

> > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > and certain derivations.

> > >

> > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > >

> > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > > -------------------------------

---

> > ---

> > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > >

> > > Question No, 70-

> > >

> > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

importance

> > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > >

> > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > >

> > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

astronomical

> > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> > considered

> > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the planets

are

> > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are found

and

> > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is familiar

to

> > all

> > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and Lagna

> > correct

> > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions in the

> > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions are

alone

> > taken

> > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that the

> > seers

> > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it then

we

> > do.

> > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also

played a

> > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The Rasi

> > Kundali is

> > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical chart.

> > > -------------------------------

---

> > ----

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > >

> > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a

good

> > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get new

> > charts

> > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help of

> > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

participated

> > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and with

> > God's

> > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private predictions

and

> > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me they

have

> > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it doesnt

> > mean i

> > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > >

> > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

translator

> > of

> > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > >

> > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there is

any

> > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing so

many

> > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas and

> > imaginary

> > > > lagnas etc.

> > > >

> > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > imaginary?

> > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha and

> > Rashi.

> > > >

> > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas then

there

> > is

> > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > >

> > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one who

> > cannot

> > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn astrology.Amshas as

> > per me

> > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the grade of

> > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > corresponding

> > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi will

help

> > us.

> > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> > elapsed

> > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha will

> > help us.

> > > >

> > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords in

> > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of

rashi

> > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as far as

> > amsha

> > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

mercury

> > in

> > > > 9th.

> > > >

> > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > >

> > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get numerous

> > personal

> > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the best

of

> > my

> > > > ability.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > >

> > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

presenting

> > you

> > > > another rationale.

> > > > >

> > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in

aspects

> > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference to

its

> > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology has

> > used

> > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue

here)

> > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> > additional

> > > > aspects etc).

> > > > >

> > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D charts,

> > and

> > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of navapancham

> > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be derived.

> > Just

> > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

conclusion.

> > But

> > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > >

> > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > ************************************************

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka - A

> > Revisit

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would

> > prefer to

> > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any

> > refrences

> > > > bout

> > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar

to

> > what

> > > > we

> > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose

like

> > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have

> > deeper

> > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra

you

> > can

> > > > see

> > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt

ehe

> > > > amshas as

> > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a

planet

> > is

> > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do

> > both.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can

see

> > > > bhavat

> > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if

you

> > draw

> > > > them

> > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi

> > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

Ghatika,you

> > can

> > > > take

> > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna

> > etc

> > > > from

> > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from

amsha

> > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > definitions.They are

> > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly

> > means

> > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > me.Rashige is

> > > > also

> > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

amshaka

> > has

> > > > to be

> > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and

> > > > explanations

> > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have

shown

> > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were

all

> > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may

> > like.If

> > > > any

> > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

not,that

> > is

> > > > ok too.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from yours

> > and

> > > > that

> > > > > > could

> > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a

> > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

advised by

> > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

everything

> > > > about a

> > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement

of

> > > > bhava

> > > > > > lords.

> > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a jataka

one

> > will

> > > > have

> > > > > > to

> > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart

only.

> > As

> > > > to

> > > > > > the

> > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha

is

> > > > concerned

> > > > > > that

> > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi

chart

> > and

> > > > that

> > > > > > has

> > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha

> > chart. The

> > > > > > reason

> > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that

is a

> > > > malefic

> > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is

> > said to

> > > > > > give

> > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that

sthana

> > if

> > > > the

> > > > > > said

> > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time

the

> > > > bhava

> > > > > > owned

> > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi

than

> > the

> > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > occupying own

> > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts

where

> > > > Navamsha

> > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South

Indians

> > only

> > > > > > write

> > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by

> > you.

> > > > Even

> > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules

like

> > > > bhavas

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara

> > advising

> > > > to

> > > > > > draw

> > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as

> > the

> > > > rasi

> > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a

graha

> > has

> > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that

has

> > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of

> > > > > > difference

> > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen

in

> > rasi

> > > > > > chakra

> > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can

not

> > take

> > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know

> > the

> > > > word

> > > > > > amsha

> > > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as well,you

> > know

> > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take

> > aspects

> > > > and

> > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within

Rashi

> > > > chakra.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either

write

> > on a

> > > > > > piece

> > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you

can

> > > > mention

> > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

indians

> > used

> > > > to

> > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

amshas in

> > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a

planet

> > > > > > falling

> > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see

> > saptamsha

> > > > of

> > > > > > a

> > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This

> > explains

> > > > > > the

> > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas

in

> > Rashi

> > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a

> > planet

> > > > (not

> > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can

be

> > used

> > > > > > for

> > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > are

> > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In

> > general

> > > > for

> > > > > > all

> > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find

that

> > only

> > > > > > amshas

> > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

possible

> > from

> > > > > > which

> > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This

is

> > so,as

> > > > > > they

> > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

concern

> > > > raised by

> > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce

> > points

> > > > can

> > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

Lagna/Hora

> > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from

the

> > same

> > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate

> > charts

> > > > but

> > > > > > it

> > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

Karakamsha

> > is the

> > > > > > rashi

> > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is

the

> > Rashi

> > > > > > on to

> > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka

is

> > the

> > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see

> > graha

> > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

Rajayoga.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see

the

> > > > > > strength

> > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what

i am

> > > > > > trying to

> > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a

graha

> > is

> > > > having

> > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the

said

> > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting

or

> > > > joining

> > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the

Rashi

> > on to

> > > > > > which

> > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK

is

> > having

> > > > > > amsha

> > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha

> > > > grahas -

> > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope

he

> > > > takes

> > > > > > this

> > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha

> > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha

> > > > drishti.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha

Mihira

> > > > list or

> > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

having

> > > > identical

> > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > criticising

> > > > the

> > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> > assume ,a

> > > > > > short

> > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am

> > pretty

> > > > sure

> > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do not

get

> > > > swayed

> > > > > > so

> > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always been

good

> > > > lessons

> > > > > > for

> > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere

in

> > my

> > > > mind

> > > > > > i

> > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If not

kindly

> > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>>

> > > > > >>> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have

been

> > > > > > better

> > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you

refer

> > to.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

divisional

> > > > charts

> > > > > > to

> > > > > >>> be

> > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> > propounded

> > > > by

> > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation

of

> > > > grahas?

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at

> > all the

> > > > > >>> results

> > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha

if

> > no

> > > > > > charts

> > > > > >>> are

> > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte

jaato

> > > > raajaa

> > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

occupying

> > the

> > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can

not be

> > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one

has

> > an

> > > > > > over

> > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did

> > talk

> > > > about

> > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that

do

> > not

> > > > > > talk

> > > > > >>> about

> > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

reactions

> > on the

> > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he

has

> > to

> > > > say.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

charts

> > for

> > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at

all.

> > So

> > > > the

> > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart

can be

> > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > >>> is

> > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters of

what

> > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > ca

> > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa

yatra me

> > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members again

to

> > the

> > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna

> > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due

> > > > > > attention

> > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of our

> > doubts.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in

all

> > the

> > > > > > six

> > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet,

it

> > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the

> > > > > > strength of

> > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is

> > rasi

> > > > > > drishti

> > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of

full,

> > half

> > > > > > and

> > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha

drishti

> > > > > > based on

> > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there

are

> > no

> > > > > > grades

> > > > > >>> of

> > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as

Sage

> > is

> > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna

will

> > fall

> > > > > > on

> > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > placements can

> > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought

which

> > are

> > > > not

> > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

talking

> > about

> > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my

> > doubt.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did

not

> > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I

see no

> > > > > > scope to

> > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam

> > wrote

> > > > > > the

> > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional

> > charts

> > > > > > here. I

> > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in

> > > > divisional

> > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

longitudinal

> > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting

> > further

> > > > > > on

> > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this

> > fully. "

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > ''Aspects are

> > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is

> > just

> > > > his

> > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > Shadvargake -

> > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars

who

> > were

> > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded

> > notion

> > > > > > that

> > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against

the

> > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> > scholars of

> > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > defintion.But

> > > > > > why

> > > > > >>> did

> > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

Probably

> > as

> > > > > > vargas

> > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse

> > they all

> > > > > > fall

> > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > Demonstrating

> > > > > > his

> > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic

in

> > > > > > aspects

> > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to

the

> > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> > chapter''.

> > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

aspect

> > can

> > > > > > happen.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

manuscripts

> > (yes

> > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i

had

> > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a

> > different

> > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> > Mahamuni

> > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas

> > > > interpreted

> > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able to

> > understand

> > > > > >>> these

> > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka

roots

> > back

> > > > > > to

> > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha

roots

> > back

> > > > to

> > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots

back

> > as per

> > > > > > them

> > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi

> > chakra

> > > > > > as

> > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > intelligence and

> > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the

great

> > souls

> > > > > > as

> > > > > >>> all

> > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil -

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use

an

> > eraser

> > > > > > to

> > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

something

> > we did

> > > > > > is

> > > > > >>> not

> > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the

road

> > to

> > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> ---------------------

---

> > -

> > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

Release

> > > > > > Date:

> > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeepji,

 

Yes Sir, I agree here, with you. The astronomical

points (Degrees) which trigger certain effects in

natives Life through transits, etc, are not imaginary,

but real. Let me also say that I appreciate the knowledge

you all possess,and have learnt from these threads,

that there is much astrology yet to be read by me,

no doubt. This is a honest appraisal .

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji

>

> I wil try to explain again with whatever knowledge that i possess.

>

> Not only the ascending degree,but the degrees ofthe planets as well

> is the decidin factor.They are not imgaginary ,but an astronomical

> fact.Lagna navamsha sector too is an astronomical degree.The point is

> why do we have 9 different aries navamshas within rashi chakra.Why

> all those sectors link to Aries.It means due to tattwa

> patterns,certain points in space and time are interelated.Rashi is a

> collection of tattwa.These 9 sectors thus relate to one collective

> tattwa called Rashi.

>

> As Rashi and Bhava are syonymns ,bhava has to be analysed from a

> rashi of 30 degrees.

>

> Thus the rashi/lagna on to which lagna bindu is falling becomes Birth

> Lagna.The Rashi/Lagna on to which Chndra indu falls becomes Chandra

> Lagna and similarly Surya.

>

> The rashi on to which Karaka graha bindu is relating through

> navamsha ,becomes Karakamsha lagna.Similarly if you can relate the

> rashi on to which Lagna bindu is relting through navamsha,it becomes

> lagna navamsha.From this Rashi you can see,bhavas similar to bhavat

> bhavam.Aspects are based on the plantary placements w.r tthis rashi.

>

> What you see in navamsha chakra are showing amsha rashi link.They are

> not astronomically placed (as Dr.Raman has said) to have

> aspect,though Dr.Raman considers aspect.

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeepji,

> >

> > I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> > to explain properly, it seems.

> > When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> > Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> > Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> > consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> > imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> > house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> > we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> > Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> > Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> > imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> > (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

> >

> > I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> > consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> > in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> > is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> > physical.

> >

> > regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > >

> > > You have asked a very relevant question.

> > >

> > > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the

> first

> > > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is it

> > > called Lagna?

> > >

> > > Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > > synonymns.

> > >

> > > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> > > analysed.

> > >

> > > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora lgna,ghatika

> > > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> > >

> > > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> > >

> > > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> > >

> > > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You said in

> > > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is from

> > > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > > >

> > > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > > as the Lagnas.

> > > >

> > > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > > and certain derivations.

> > > >

> > > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > > >

> > > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -------------------------------

> ---

> > > ---

> > > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > > >

> > > > Question No, 70-

> > > >

> > > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

> importance

> > > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > > >

> > > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > > >

> > > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

> astronomical

> > > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> > > considered

> > > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the planets

> are

> > > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are found

> and

> > > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is familiar

> to

> > > all

> > > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and Lagna

> > > correct

> > > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions in the

> > > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions are

> alone

> > > taken

> > > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that the

> > > seers

> > > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it then

> we

> > > do.

> > > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also

> played a

> > > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The Rasi

> > > Kundali is

> > > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical chart.

> > > > -------------------------------

> ---

> > > ----

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a

> good

> > > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get new

> > > charts

> > > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help of

> > > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

> participated

> > > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and with

> > > God's

> > > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private predictions

> and

> > > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me they

> have

> > > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it doesnt

> > > mean i

> > > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

> translator

> > > of

> > > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there is

> any

> > > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing so

> many

> > > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas and

> > > imaginary

> > > > > lagnas etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > > imaginary?

> > > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha and

> > > Rashi.

> > > > >

> > > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas then

> there

> > > is

> > > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one who

> > > cannot

> > > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn astrology.Amshas as

> > > per me

> > > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the grade of

> > > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > > corresponding

> > > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi will

> help

> > > us.

> > > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> > > elapsed

> > > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha will

> > > help us.

> > > > >

> > > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords in

> > > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of

> rashi

> > > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as far as

> > > amsha

> > > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

> mercury

> > > in

> > > > > 9th.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > > >

> > > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get numerous

> > > personal

> > > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the best

> of

> > > my

> > > > > ability.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

> presenting

> > > you

> > > > > another rationale.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in

> aspects

> > > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference to

> its

> > > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology has

> > > used

> > > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue

> here)

> > > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> > > additional

> > > > > aspects etc).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D charts,

> > > and

> > > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of navapancham

> > > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be derived.

> > > Just

> > > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

> conclusion.

> > > But

> > > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > > ************************************************

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka - A

> > > Revisit

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would

> > > prefer to

> > > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any

> > > refrences

> > > > > bout

> > > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar

> to

> > > what

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose

> like

> > > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have

> > > deeper

> > > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra

> you

> > > can

> > > > > see

> > > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt

> ehe

> > > > > amshas as

> > > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a

> planet

> > > is

> > > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do

> > > both.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can

> see

> > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if

> you

> > > draw

> > > > > them

> > > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi

> > > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

> Ghatika,you

> > > can

> > > > > take

> > > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna

> > > etc

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from

> amsha

> > > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > > definitions.They are

> > > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly

> > > means

> > > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > > me.Rashige is

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

> amshaka

> > > has

> > > > > to be

> > > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and

> > > > > explanations

> > > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have

> shown

> > > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were

> all

> > > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may

> > > like.If

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

> not,that

> > > is

> > > > > ok too.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from yours

> > > and

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > could

> > > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a

> > > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

> advised by

> > > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

> everything

> > > > > about a

> > > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement

> of

> > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > lords.

> > > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a jataka

> one

> > > will

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart

> only.

> > > As

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha

> is

> > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi

> chart

> > > and

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha

> > > chart. The

> > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that

> is a

> > > > > malefic

> > > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is

> > > said to

> > > > > > > give

> > > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that

> sthana

> > > if

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > said

> > > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time

> the

> > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > owned

> > > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi

> than

> > > the

> > > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > > occupying own

> > > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts

> where

> > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South

> Indians

> > > only

> > > > > > > write

> > > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by

> > > you.

> > > > > Even

> > > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules

> like

> > > > > bhavas

> > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara

> > > advising

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > draw

> > > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as

> > > the

> > > > > rasi

> > > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a

> graha

> > > has

> > > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that

> has

> > > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of

> > > > > > > difference

> > > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen

> in

> > > rasi

> > > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can

> not

> > > take

> > > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know

> > > the

> > > > > word

> > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as well,you

> > > know

> > > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take

> > > aspects

> > > > > and

> > > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within

> Rashi

> > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either

> write

> > > on a

> > > > > > > piece

> > > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you

> can

> > > > > mention

> > > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

> indians

> > > used

> > > > > to

> > > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

> amshas in

> > > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a

> planet

> > > > > > > falling

> > > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see

> > > saptamsha

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This

> > > explains

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas

> in

> > > Rashi

> > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a

> > > planet

> > > > > (not

> > > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can

> be

> > > used

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In

> > > general

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find

> that

> > > only

> > > > > > > amshas

> > > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

> possible

> > > from

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This

> is

> > > so,as

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

> concern

> > > > > raised by

> > > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce

> > > points

> > > > > can

> > > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

> Lagna/Hora

> > > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from

> the

> > > same

> > > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate

> > > charts

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

> Karakamsha

> > > is the

> > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is

> the

> > > Rashi

> > > > > > > on to

> > > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka

> is

> > > the

> > > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see

> > > graha

> > > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

> Rajayoga.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see

> the

> > > > > > > strength

> > > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what

> i am

> > > > > > > trying to

> > > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a

> graha

> > > is

> > > > > having

> > > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the

> said

> > > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting

> or

> > > > > joining

> > > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the

> Rashi

> > > on to

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK

> is

> > > having

> > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha

> > > > > grahas -

> > > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope

> he

> > > > > takes

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha

> > > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha

> > > > > drishti.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha

> Mihira

> > > > > list or

> > > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

> having

> > > > > identical

> > > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > > criticising

> > > > > the

> > > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> > > assume ,a

> > > > > > > short

> > > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am

> > > pretty

> > > > > sure

> > > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do not

> get

> > > > > swayed

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always been

> good

> > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere

> in

> > > my

> > > > > mind

> > > > > > > i

> > > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If not

> kindly

> > > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have

> been

> > > > > > > better

> > > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you

> refer

> > > to.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

> divisional

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >>> be

> > > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> > > propounded

> > > > > by

> > > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation

> of

> > > > > grahas?

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at

> > > all the

> > > > > > >>> results

> > > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha

> if

> > > no

> > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > >>> are

> > > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte

> jaato

> > > > > raajaa

> > > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

> occupying

> > > the

> > > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can

> not be

> > > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one

> has

> > > an

> > > > > > > over

> > > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did

> > > talk

> > > > > about

> > > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that

> do

> > > not

> > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > >>> about

> > > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

> reactions

> > > on the

> > > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he

> has

> > > to

> > > > > say.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

> charts

> > > for

> > > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at

> all.

> > > So

> > > > > the

> > > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart

> can be

> > > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > > >>> is

> > > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters of

> what

> > > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > > ca

> > > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa

> yatra me

> > > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members again

> to

> > > the

> > > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna

> > > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due

> > > > > > > attention

> > > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of our

> > > doubts.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in

> all

> > > the

> > > > > > > six

> > > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet,

> it

> > > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the

> > > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is

> > > rasi

> > > > > > > drishti

> > > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of

> full,

> > > half

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha

> drishti

> > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there

> are

> > > no

> > > > > > > grades

> > > > > > >>> of

> > > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as

> Sage

> > > is

> > > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna

> will

> > > fall

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > > placements can

> > > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought

> which

> > > are

> > > > > not

> > > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

> talking

> > > about

> > > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my

> > > doubt.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did

> not

> > > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I

> see no

> > > > > > > scope to

> > > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam

> > > wrote

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional

> > > charts

> > > > > > > here. I

> > > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in

> > > > > divisional

> > > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

> longitudinal

> > > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting

> > > further

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this

> > > fully. "

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > > ''Aspects are

> > > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is

> > > just

> > > > > his

> > > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > > Shadvargake -

> > > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars

> who

> > > were

> > > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded

> > > notion

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against

> the

> > > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> > > scholars of

> > > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > > defintion.But

> > > > > > > why

> > > > > > >>> did

> > > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

> Probably

> > > as

> > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse

> > > they all

> > > > > > > fall

> > > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > > Demonstrating

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic

> in

> > > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to

> the

> > > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> > > chapter''.

> > > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

> aspect

> > > can

> > > > > > > happen.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

> manuscripts

> > > (yes

> > > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i

> had

> > > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a

> > > different

> > > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> > > Mahamuni

> > > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas

> > > > > interpreted

> > > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able to

> > > understand

> > > > > > >>> these

> > > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka

> roots

> > > back

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha

> roots

> > > back

> > > > > to

> > > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots

> back

> > > as per

> > > > > > > them

> > > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi

> > > chakra

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > > intelligence and

> > > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the

> great

> > > souls

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > >>> all

> > > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil -

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use

> an

> > > eraser

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

> something

> > > we did

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > >>> not

> > > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the

> road

> > > to

> > > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> ---------------------

> ---

> > > -

> > > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear members lagna is a sharir [your body] which planet is in lagna good or bad

it effects on your body.degree of lagna shows your understandingn power

iflagnaesh in 10th house become stronger,if it has relation with 3ed house maens

man is self made there are many many relations to find out when you go for

predicton.[ Astrloger- vijay kumar arora -mobile no.9873563585]

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: Dear Pradeepji,

 

Yes Sir, I agree here, with you. The astronomical

points (Degrees) which trigger certain effects in

natives Life through transits, etc, are not imaginary,

but real. Let me also say that I appreciate the knowledge

you all possess,and have learnt from these threads,

that there is much astrology yet to be read by me,

no doubt. This is a honest appraisal .

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji

>

> I wil try to explain again with whatever knowledge that i possess.

>

> Not only the ascending degree,but the degrees ofthe planets as well

> is the decidin factor.They are not imgaginary ,but an astronomical

> fact.Lagna navamsha sector too is an astronomical degree.The point is

> why do we have 9 different aries navamshas within rashi chakra.Why

> all those sectors link to Aries.It means due to tattwa

> patterns,certain points in space and time are interelated.Rashi is a

> collection of tattwa.These 9 sectors thus relate to one collective

> tattwa called Rashi.

>

> As Rashi and Bhava are syonymns ,bhava has to be analysed from a

> rashi of 30 degrees.

>

> Thus the rashi/lagna on to which lagna bindu is falling becomes Birth

> Lagna.The Rashi/Lagna on to which Chndra indu falls becomes Chandra

> Lagna and similarly Surya.

>

> The rashi on to which Karaka graha bindu is relating through

> navamsha ,becomes Karakamsha lagna.Similarly if you can relate the

> rashi on to which Lagna bindu is relting through navamsha,it becomes

> lagna navamsha.From this Rashi you can see,bhavas similar to bhavat

> bhavam.Aspects are based on the plantary placements w.r tthis rashi.

>

> What you see in navamsha chakra are showing amsha rashi link.They are

> not astronomically placed (as Dr.Raman has said) to have

> aspect,though Dr.Raman considers aspect.

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeepji,

> >

> > I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> > to explain properly, it seems.

> > When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> > Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> > Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> > consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> > imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> > house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> > we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> > Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> > Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> > imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> > (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

> >

> > I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> > consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> > in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> > is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> > physical.

> >

> > regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > >

> > > You have asked a very relevant question.

> > >

> > > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the

> first

> > > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is it

> > > called Lagna?

> > >

> > > Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > > synonymns.

> > >

> > > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> > > analysed.

> > >

> > > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora lgna,ghatika

> > > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> > >

> > > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> > >

> > > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> > >

> > > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You said in

> > > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is from

> > > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > > >

> > > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > > as the Lagnas.

> > > >

> > > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > > and certain derivations.

> > > >

> > > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > > >

> > > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -------------------------

> ---

> > > ---

> > > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > > >

> > > > Question No, 70-

> > > >

> > > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

> importance

> > > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > > >

> > > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > > >

> > > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

> astronomical

> > > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> > > considered

> > > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the planets

> are

> > > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are found

> and

> > > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is familiar

> to

> > > all

> > > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and Lagna

> > > correct

> > > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions in the

> > > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions are

> alone

> > > taken

> > > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that the

> > > seers

> > > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it then

> we

> > > do.

> > > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also

> played a

> > > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The Rasi

> > > Kundali is

> > > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical chart.

> > > > -------------------------

> ---

> > > ----

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a

> good

> > > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get new

> > > charts

> > > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help of

> > > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

> participated

> > > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and with

> > > God's

> > > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private predictions

> and

> > > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me they

> have

> > > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it doesnt

> > > mean i

> > > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

> translator

> > > of

> > > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there is

> any

> > > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing so

> many

> > > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas and

> > > imaginary

> > > > > lagnas etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > > imaginary?

> > > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha and

> > > Rashi.

> > > > >

> > > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas then

> there

> > > is

> > > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one who

> > > cannot

> > > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn astrology.Amshas as

> > > per me

> > > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the grade of

> > > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > > corresponding

> > > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi will

> help

> > > us.

> > > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> > > elapsed

> > > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha will

> > > help us.

> > > > >

> > > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords in

> > > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of

> rashi

> > > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as far as

> > > amsha

> > > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

> mercury

> > > in

> > > > > 9th.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > > >

> > > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get numerous

> > > personal

> > > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the best

> of

> > > my

> > > > > ability.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

> presenting

> > > you

> > > > > another rationale.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in

> aspects

> > > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference to

> its

> > > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology has

> > > used

> > > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue

> here)

> > > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> > > additional

> > > > > aspects etc).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D charts,

> > > and

> > > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of navapancham

> > > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be derived.

> > > Just

> > > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

> conclusion.

> > > But

> > > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > > ************************************************

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka - A

> > > Revisit

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would

> > > prefer to

> > > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any

> > > refrences

> > > > > bout

> > > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar

> to

> > > what

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose

> like

> > > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have

> > > deeper

> > > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra

> you

> > > can

> > > > > see

> > > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt

> ehe

> > > > > amshas as

> > > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a

> planet

> > > is

> > > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do

> > > both.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can

> see

> > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if

> you

> > > draw

> > > > > them

> > > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi

> > > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

> Ghatika,you

> > > can

> > > > > take

> > > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna

> > > etc

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from

> amsha

> > > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > > definitions.They are

> > > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly

> > > means

> > > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > > me.Rashige is

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

> amshaka

> > > has

> > > > > to be

> > > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and

> > > > > explanations

> > > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have

> shown

> > > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were

> all

> > > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may

> > > like.If

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

> not,that

> > > is

> > > > > ok too.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from yours

> > > and

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > could

> > > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a

> > > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

> advised by

> > > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

> everything

> > > > > about a

> > > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement

> of

> > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > lords.

> > > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a jataka

> one

> > > will

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart

> only.

> > > As

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha

> is

> > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi

> chart

> > > and

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha

> > > chart. The

> > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that

> is a

> > > > > malefic

> > > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is

> > > said to

> > > > > > > give

> > > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that

> sthana

> > > if

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > said

> > > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time

> the

> > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > owned

> > > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi

> than

> > > the

> > > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > > occupying own

> > > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts

> where

> > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South

> Indians

> > > only

> > > > > > > write

> > > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by

> > > you.

> > > > > Even

> > > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules

> like

> > > > > bhavas

> > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara

> > > advising

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > draw

> > > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as

> > > the

> > > > > rasi

> > > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a

> graha

> > > has

> > > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that

> has

> > > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of

> > > > > > > difference

> > > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen

> in

> > > rasi

> > > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can

> not

> > > take

> > > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know

> > > the

> > > > > word

> > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as well,you

> > > know

> > > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take

> > > aspects

> > > > > and

> > > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within

> Rashi

> > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either

> write

> > > on a

> > > > > > > piece

> > > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you

> can

> > > > > mention

> > > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

> indians

> > > used

> > > > > to

> > > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

> amshas in

> > > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a

> planet

> > > > > > > falling

> > > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see

> > > saptamsha

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This

> > > explains

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas

> in

> > > Rashi

> > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a

> > > planet

> > > > > (not

> > > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can

> be

> > > used

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In

> > > general

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find

> that

> > > only

> > > > > > > amshas

> > > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

> possible

> > > from

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This

> is

> > > so,as

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

> concern

> > > > > raised by

> > > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce

> > > points

> > > > > can

> > > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

> Lagna/Hora

> > > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from

> the

> > > same

> > > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate

> > > charts

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

> Karakamsha

> > > is the

> > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is

> the

> > > Rashi

> > > > > > > on to

> > > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka

> is

> > > the

> > > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see

> > > graha

> > > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

> Rajayoga.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see

> the

> > > > > > > strength

> > > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what

> i am

> > > > > > > trying to

> > > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a

> graha

> > > is

> > > > > having

> > > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the

> said

> > > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting

> or

> > > > > joining

> > > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the

> Rashi

> > > on to

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK

> is

> > > having

> > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha

> > > > > grahas -

> > > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope

> he

> > > > > takes

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha

> > > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha

> > > > > drishti.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha

> Mihira

> > > > > list or

> > > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

> having

> > > > > identical

> > > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > > criticising

> > > > > the

> > > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> > > assume ,a

> > > > > > > short

> > > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am

> > > pretty

> > > > > sure

> > > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do not

> get

> > > > > swayed

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always been

> good

> > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere

> in

> > > my

> > > > > mind

> > > > > > > i

> > > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If not

> kindly

> > > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > >>> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have

> been

> > > > > > > better

> > > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you

> refer

> > > to.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

> divisional

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >>> be

> > > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> > > propounded

> > > > > by

> > > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation

> of

> > > > > grahas?

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at

> > > all the

> > > > > > >>> results

> > > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha

> if

> > > no

> > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > >>> are

> > > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte

> jaato

> > > > > raajaa

> > > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

> occupying

> > > the

> > > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can

> not be

> > > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one

> has

> > > an

> > > > > > > over

> > > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did

> > > talk

> > > > > about

> > > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that

> do

> > > not

> > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > >>> about

> > > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

> reactions

> > > on the

> > > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he

> has

> > > to

> > > > > say.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

> charts

> > > for

> > > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at

> all.

> > > So

> > > > > the

> > > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart

> can be

> > > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > > >>> is

> > > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters of

> what

> > > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > > ca

> > > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa

> yatra me

> > > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members again

> to

> > > the

> > > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna

> > > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due

> > > > > > > attention

> > > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of our

> > > doubts.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in

> all

> > > the

> > > > > > > six

> > > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet,

> it

> > > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the

> > > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is

> > > rasi

> > > > > > > drishti

> > > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of

> full,

> > > half

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha

> drishti

> > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there

> are

> > > no

> > > > > > > grades

> > > > > > >>> of

> > > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as

> Sage

> > > is

> > > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna

> will

> > > fall

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > > placements can

> > > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought

> which

> > > are

> > > > > not

> > > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

> talking

> > > about

> > > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my

> > > doubt.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did

> not

> > > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I

> see no

> > > > > > > scope to

> > > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam

> > > wrote

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional

> > > charts

> > > > > > > here. I

> > > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in

> > > > > divisional

> > > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

> longitudinal

> > > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting

> > > further

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this

> > > fully. "

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > > ''Aspects are

> > > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is

> > > just

> > > > > his

> > > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > > Shadvargake -

> > > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars

> who

> > > were

> > > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded

> > > notion

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against

> the

> > > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> > > scholars of

> > > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > > defintion.But

> > > > > > > why

> > > > > > >>> did

> > > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

> Probably

> > > as

> > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse

> > > they all

> > > > > > > fall

> > > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > > Demonstrating

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic

> in

> > > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to

> the

> > > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> > > chapter''.

> > > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

> aspect

> > > can

> > > > > > > happen.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

> manuscripts

> > > (yes

> > > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i

> had

> > > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a

> > > different

> > > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> > > Mahamuni

> > > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas

> > > > > interpreted

> > > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able to

> > > understand

> > > > > > >>> these

> > > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka

> roots

> > > back

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha

> roots

> > > back

> > > > > to

> > > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots

> back

> > > as per

> > > > > > > them

> > > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi

> > > chakra

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > > intelligence and

> > > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the

> great

> > > souls

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > >>> all

> > > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil -

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use

> an

> > > eraser

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

> something

> > > we did

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > >>> not

> > > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the

> road

> > > to

> > > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> ---------------------

> ---

> > > -

> > > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > >>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji

 

Thanks for your words.

 

In reality ,i may be having 1/4th of knowledge and experience that

you are possessing.Just because i am able to understand one basic

point in Jyotish,i am not above you or K.N.Raoji or anyone else.

 

This is a misunderstanding among many.Names like K.N.Rao is not

achieved through few debates in Jyotish.It is through a life long

effort and dedication.

 

But our effort is to see,if any errors have crept in

inadvertently ,from the original understanding over the years.

 

Comparing the views of sages who lived long back,with contemporary

scholars,one gets a clear impression that,there has beeen a slight

misunderstanding.Thus the efforts as we are not supposed to

compromise on fundamentals.

 

Thanks again for your encouragement to students like me.

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

 

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeepji,

>

> Yes Sir, I agree here, with you. The astronomical

> points (Degrees) which trigger certain effects in

> natives Life through transits, etc, are not imaginary,

> but real. Let me also say that I appreciate the knowledge

> you all possess,and have learnt from these threads,

> that there is much astrology yet to be read by me,

> no doubt. This is a honest appraisal .

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji

> >

> > I wil try to explain again with whatever knowledge that i possess.

> >

> > Not only the ascending degree,but the degrees ofthe planets as

well

> > is the decidin factor.They are not imgaginary ,but an

astronomical

> > fact.Lagna navamsha sector too is an astronomical degree.The

point is

> > why do we have 9 different aries navamshas within rashi

chakra.Why

> > all those sectors link to Aries.It means due to tattwa

> > patterns,certain points in space and time are interelated.Rashi

is a

> > collection of tattwa.These 9 sectors thus relate to one

collective

> > tattwa called Rashi.

> >

> > As Rashi and Bhava are syonymns ,bhava has to be analysed from a

> > rashi of 30 degrees.

> >

> > Thus the rashi/lagna on to which lagna bindu is falling becomes

Birth

> > Lagna.The Rashi/Lagna on to which Chndra indu falls becomes

Chandra

> > Lagna and similarly Surya.

> >

> > The rashi on to which Karaka graha bindu is relating through

> > navamsha ,becomes Karakamsha lagna.Similarly if you can relate

the

> > rashi on to which Lagna bindu is relting through navamsha,it

becomes

> > lagna navamsha.From this Rashi you can see,bhavas similar to

bhavat

> > bhavam.Aspects are based on the plantary placements w.r tthis

rashi.

> >

> > What you see in navamsha chakra are showing amsha rashi link.They

are

> > not astronomically placed (as Dr.Raman has said) to have

> > aspect,though Dr.Raman considers aspect.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeepji,

> > >

> > > I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> > > to explain properly, it seems.

> > > When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> > > Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> > > Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> > > consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> > > imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> > > house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> > > we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> > > Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> > > Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> > > imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> > > (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

> > >

> > > I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> > > consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> > > in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> > > is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> > > physical.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > > >

> > > > You have asked a very relevant question.

> > > >

> > > > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the

> > first

> > > > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is

it

> > > > called Lagna?

> > > >

> > > > Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > > > synonymns.

> > > >

> > > > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> > > > analysed.

> > > >

> > > > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora

lgna,ghatika

> > > > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > > > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> > > >

> > > > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> > > >

> > > > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> > > >

> > > > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You

said in

> > > > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is

from

> > > > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > , " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > > > >

> > > > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > > > as the Lagnas.

> > > > >

> > > > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > > > and certain derivations.

> > > > >

> > > > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > bhaskar.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ---------------------------

----

> > ---

> > > > ---

> > > > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > > > >

> > > > > Question No, 70-

> > > > >

> > > > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

> > importance

> > > > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > > > >

> > > > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

> > astronomical

> > > > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> > > > considered

> > > > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the

planets

> > are

> > > > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are

found

> > and

> > > > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is

familiar

> > to

> > > > all

> > > > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and

Lagna

> > > > correct

> > > > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions

in the

> > > > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions

are

> > alone

> > > > taken

> > > > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that

the

> > > > seers

> > > > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it

then

> > we

> > > > do.

> > > > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also

> > played a

> > > > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The

Rasi

> > > > Kundali is

> > > > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical

chart.

> > > > > ---------------------------

----

> > ---

> > > > ----

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a

> > good

> > > > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get

new

> > > > charts

> > > > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help

of

> > > > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

> > participated

> > > > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and

with

> > > > God's

> > > > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private

predictions

> > and

> > > > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me

they

> > have

> > > > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it

doesnt

> > > > mean i

> > > > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

> > translator

> > > > of

> > > > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there

is

> > any

> > > > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing

so

> > many

> > > > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas

and

> > > > imaginary

> > > > > > lagnas etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > > > imaginary?

> > > > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha

and

> > > > Rashi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas

then

> > there

> > > > is

> > > > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one

who

> > > > cannot

> > > > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn

astrology.Amshas as

> > > > per me

> > > > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the

grade of

> > > > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > > > corresponding

> > > > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi

will

> > help

> > > > us.

> > > > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> > > > elapsed

> > > > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha

will

> > > > help us.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords

in

> > > > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of

> > rashi

> > > > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as

far as

> > > > amsha

> > > > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

> > mercury

> > > > in

> > > > > > 9th.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get

numerous

> > > > personal

> > > > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the

best

> > of

> > > > my

> > > > > > ability.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang

<jyotish@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

> > presenting

> > > > you

> > > > > > another rationale.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in

> > aspects

> > > > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference

to

> > its

> > > > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology

has

> > > > used

> > > > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue

> > here)

> > > > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> > > > additional

> > > > > > aspects etc).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D

charts,

> > > > and

> > > > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of

navapancham

> > > > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be

derived.

> > > > Just

> > > > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

> > conclusion.

> > > > But

> > > > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > > > ************************************************

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka -

A

> > > > Revisit

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i

would

> > > > prefer to

> > > > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen

any

> > > > refrences

> > > > > > bout

> > > > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-

similar

> > to

> > > > what

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific

purpose

> > like

> > > > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities

have

> > > > deeper

> > > > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi

chakra

> > you

> > > > can

> > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can

represnt

> > ehe

> > > > > > amshas as

> > > > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a

> > planet

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South

inidans do

> > > > both.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you

can

> > see

> > > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even

if

> > you

> > > > draw

> > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said

rashi

> > > > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

> > Ghatika,you

> > > > can

> > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha

lagna

> > > > etc

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from

> > amsha

> > > > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > > > definitions.They are

> > > > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised

concern.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which

clearly

> > > > means

> > > > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > > > me.Rashige is

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

> > amshaka

> > > > has

> > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations

and

> > > > > > explanations

> > > > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have

> > shown

> > > > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They

were

> > all

> > > > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you

may

> > > > like.If

> > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

> > not,that

> > > > is

> > > > > > ok too.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from

yours

> > > > and

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood

how a

> > > > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

> > advised by

> > > > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

> > everything

> > > > > > about a

> > > > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and

placement

> > of

> > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > lords.

> > > > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a

jataka

> > one

> > > > will

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha

chart

> > only.

> > > > As

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha

shastyamsha

> > is

> > > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi

> > chart

> > > > and

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or

akshavedaamsha

> > > > chart. The

> > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha

that

> > is a

> > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart

it is

> > > > said to

> > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that

> > sthana

> > > > if

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same

time

> > the

> > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > owned

> > > > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi

> > than

> > > > the

> > > > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > > > occupying own

> > > > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts

> > where

> > > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South

> > Indians

> > > > only

> > > > > > > > write

> > > > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned

by

> > > > you.

> > > > > > Even

> > > > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where

rules

> > like

> > > > > > bhavas

> > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on

Parashara

> > > > advising

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > draw

> > > > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same

manner as

> > > > the

> > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a

> > graha

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet

that

> > has

> > > > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only

point of

> > > > > > > > difference

> > > > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be

seen

> > in

> > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I

can

> > not

> > > > take

> > > > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I

know

> > > > the

> > > > > > word

> > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as

well,you

> > > > know

> > > > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not

take

> > > > aspects

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis

within

> > Rashi

> > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can

either

> > write

> > > > on a

> > > > > > > > piece

> > > > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or

you

> > can

> > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

> > indians

> > > > used

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

> > amshas in

> > > > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of

a

> > planet

> > > > > > > > falling

> > > > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can

see

> > > > saptamsha

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child

matters.This

> > > > explains

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to

bhavas

> > in

> > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of

a

> > > > planet

> > > > > > (not

> > > > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and

can

> > be

> > > > used

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas

(In

> > > > general

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find

> > that

> > > > only

> > > > > > > > amshas

> > > > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

> > possible

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and

bhavas.This

> > is

> > > > so,as

> > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

> > concern

> > > > > > raised by

> > > > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the

refernce

> > > > points

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

> > Lagna/Hora

> > > > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen

from

> > the

> > > > same

> > > > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as

seperate

> > > > charts

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

> > Karakamsha

> > > > is the

> > > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha

is

> > the

> > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > on to

> > > > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake

shloka

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to

see

> > > > graha

> > > > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

> > Rajayoga.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to

see

> > the

> > > > > > > > strength

> > > > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand

what

> > i am

> > > > > > > > trying to

> > > > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a

> > graha

> > > > is

> > > > > > having

> > > > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of

the

> > said

> > > > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are

aspecting

> > or

> > > > > > joining

> > > > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the

> > Rashi

> > > > on to

> > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our

AK

> > is

> > > > having

> > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by

Shubha

> > > > > > grahas -

> > > > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I

hope

> > he

> > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva

cha

> > > > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to

Graha

> > > > > > drishti.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha

> > Mihira

> > > > > > list or

> > > > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

> > having

> > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > > > criticising

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> > > > assume ,a

> > > > > > > > short

> > > > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i

am

> > > > pretty

> > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do

not

> > get

> > > > > > swayed

> > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always

been

> > good

> > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still

somewhere

> > in

> > > > my

> > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > i

> > > > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If

not

> > kindly

> > > > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> <%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would

have

> > been

> > > > > > > > better

> > > > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you

> > refer

> > > > to.

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

> > divisional

> > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > >>> be

> > > > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> > > > propounded

> > > > > > by

> > > > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or

occupation

> > of

> > > > > > grahas?

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you

look at

> > > > all the

> > > > > > > >>> results

> > > > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and

SaStyaMsha

> > if

> > > > no

> > > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > >>> are

> > > > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > > > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte

> > jaato

> > > > > > raajaa

> > > > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

> > occupying

> > > > the

> > > > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which

can

> > not be

> > > > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course

one

> > has

> > > > an

> > > > > > > > over

> > > > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara

did

> > > > talk

> > > > > > about

> > > > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas

that

> > do

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > >>> about

> > > > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

> > reactions

> > > > on the

> > > > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what

he

> > has

> > > > to

> > > > > > say.

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

> > charts

> > > > for

> > > > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity

at

> > all.

> > > > So

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi

chart

> > can be

> > > > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > > > >>> is

> > > > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters

of

> > what

> > > > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > > > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > > > ca

> > > > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa

> > yatra me

> > > > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members

again

> > to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on

Lagna

> > > > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this

with due

> > > > > > > > attention

> > > > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of

our

> > > > doubts.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna

in

> > all

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > six

> > > > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same

planet,

> > it

> > > > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect,

the

> > > > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that

this is

> > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > drishti

> > > > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of

> > full,

> > > > half

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha

> > drishti

> > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti,

there

> > are

> > > > no

> > > > > > > > grades

> > > > > > > >>> of

> > > > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right

as

> > Sage

> > > > is

> > > > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of

Lagna

> > will

> > > > fall

> > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > > > placements can

> > > > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought

> > which

> > > > are

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

> > talking

> > > > about

> > > > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is

my

> > > > doubt.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam

did

> > not

> > > > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact,

I

> > see no

> > > > > > > > scope to

> > > > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri

Santhanam

> > > > wrote

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the

divisional

> > > > charts

> > > > > > > > here. I

> > > > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects

in

> > > > > > divisional

> > > > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

> > longitudinal

> > > > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without

commenting

> > > > further

> > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain

this

> > > > fully. "

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > > > ''Aspects are

> > > > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -

which is

> > > > just

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > > > Shadvargake -

> > > > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many

scholars

> > who

> > > > were

> > > > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a

preconcluded

> > > > notion

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is

against

> > the

> > > > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> > > > scholars of

> > > > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > > > defintion.But

> > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > >>> did

> > > > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

> > Probably

> > > > as

> > > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes

ofcourse

> > > > they all

> > > > > > > > fall

> > > > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > > > Demonstrating

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the

logic

> > in

> > > > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself

referred to

> > the

> > > > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> > > > chapter''.

> > > > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

> > aspect

> > > > can

> > > > > > > > happen.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

> > manuscripts

> > > > (yes

> > > > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present)

which i

> > had

> > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been

a

> > > > different

> > > > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> > > > Mahamuni

> > > > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the

shlokas

> > > > > > interpreted

> > > > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able

to

> > > > understand

> > > > > > > >>> these

> > > > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka

> > roots

> > > > back

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha

> > roots

> > > > back

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots

> > back

> > > > as per

> > > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within

Rashi

> > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish

parampara.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > > > intelligence and

> > > > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the

> > great

> > > > souls

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > >>> all

> > > > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about

pencil -

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to

use

> > an

> > > > eraser

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

> > something

> > > > we did

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > >>> not

> > > > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on

the

> > road

> > > > to

> > > > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> -----------------

----

> > ---

> > > > -

> > > > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> > Release

> > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> -------------------

----

> > ---

> > > > ----

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> > Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri pradeepji,

 

Why you do majaak(Fun) with small people like me ?

 

I am not an iota of what you people are. I am not

competent enough like all of you to get and enter

and continue such lengthy debates. I neither have

time, energy, required inclinations, push,

or the requisite astrological knowledge which you

all possess. I have confessed that I have yet to

read much after watching you people debate, and feel

very small enough to be a part of such wise debates,

thats why I ventured out.

 

Yes comparing the wisdom of the sages is good,

getting deep into the shlokas to understand the

depth of the meanings, is good enough, and

appreciated on our part,but I have a short life,

and cannot spend my limited time in all these

luxuries. I just wish to understand the interpretations

of the modern day scholars through

the literature available, as to how they could reach

the conclusions, which they arrived at, and this literaure

available is also so huge enough, that one

could spend 2-3 lifetimes in studying this too,

so studying shlokas is a far too fetched for

ordinary persons like me, and I just wish to

learn prediction for day to day matters.

like if one wishes a job, when he will get it,

if one wishes to marry , when he could, if one wishes

wealth when he could have it. My interest just lies

in learning how to predict, and not

in the theories available till date.

 

kind regards,

bhaskar.

 

 

 

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji

>

> Thanks for your words.

>

> In reality ,i may be having 1/4th of knowledge and experience that

> you are possessing.Just because i am able to understand one basic

> point in Jyotish,i am not above you or K.N.Raoji or anyone else.

>

> This is a misunderstanding among many.Names like K.N.Rao is not

> achieved through few debates in Jyotish.It is through a life long

> effort and dedication.

>

> But our effort is to see,if any errors have crept in

> inadvertently ,from the original understanding over the years.

>

> Comparing the views of sages who lived long back,with contemporary

> scholars,one gets a clear impression that,there has beeen a slight

> misunderstanding.Thus the efforts as we are not supposed to

> compromise on fundamentals.

>

> Thanks again for your encouragement to students like me.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

>

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeepji,

> >

> > Yes Sir, I agree here, with you. The astronomical

> > points (Degrees) which trigger certain effects in

> > natives Life through transits, etc, are not imaginary,

> > but real. Let me also say that I appreciate the knowledge

> > you all possess,and have learnt from these threads,

> > that there is much astrology yet to be read by me,

> > no doubt. This is a honest appraisal .

> >

> > regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > >

> > > I wil try to explain again with whatever knowledge that i possess.

> > >

> > > Not only the ascending degree,but the degrees ofthe planets as

> well

> > > is the decidin factor.They are not imgaginary ,but an

> astronomical

> > > fact.Lagna navamsha sector too is an astronomical degree.The

> point is

> > > why do we have 9 different aries navamshas within rashi

> chakra.Why

> > > all those sectors link to Aries.It means due to tattwa

> > > patterns,certain points in space and time are interelated.Rashi

> is a

> > > collection of tattwa.These 9 sectors thus relate to one

> collective

> > > tattwa called Rashi.

> > >

> > > As Rashi and Bhava are syonymns ,bhava has to be analysed from a

> > > rashi of 30 degrees.

> > >

> > > Thus the rashi/lagna on to which lagna bindu is falling becomes

> Birth

> > > Lagna.The Rashi/Lagna on to which Chndra indu falls becomes

> Chandra

> > > Lagna and similarly Surya.

> > >

> > > The rashi on to which Karaka graha bindu is relating through

> > > navamsha ,becomes Karakamsha lagna.Similarly if you can relate

> the

> > > rashi on to which Lagna bindu is relting through navamsha,it

> becomes

> > > lagna navamsha.From this Rashi you can see,bhavas similar to

> bhavat

> > > bhavam.Aspects are based on the plantary placements w.r tthis

> rashi.

> > >

> > > What you see in navamsha chakra are showing amsha rashi link.They

> are

> > > not astronomically placed (as Dr.Raman has said) to have

> > > aspect,though Dr.Raman considers aspect.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeepji,

> > > >

> > > > I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> > > > to explain properly, it seems.

> > > > When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> > > > Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> > > > Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> > > > consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> > > > imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> > > > house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> > > > we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> > > > Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> > > > Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> > > > imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> > > > (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

> > > >

> > > > I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> > > > consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> > > > in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> > > > is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> > > > physical.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > > > >

> > > > > You have asked a very relevant question.

> > > > >

> > > > > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the

> > > first

> > > > > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is

> it

> > > > > called Lagna?

> > > > >

> > > > > Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > > > > synonymns.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> > > > > analysed.

> > > > >

> > > > > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora

> lgna,ghatika

> > > > > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > > > > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> > > > >

> > > > > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You

> said in

> > > > > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is

> from

> > > > > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > > > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > > > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > > > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > > > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > > > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > > > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > > > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > > > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > > > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > > > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > > > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > > > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > > > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > > > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > > > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > > > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > > > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > > > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > > > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > > > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > > > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > > > > as the Lagnas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > > > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > > > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > > > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > > > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > > > > and certain derivations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > > > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > > > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > > > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > > > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > > > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > > > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > > > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > > > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > bhaskar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ---------------------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Question No, 70-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

> > > importance

> > > > > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

> > > astronomical

> > > > > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> > > > > considered

> > > > > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the

> planets

> > > are

> > > > > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are

> found

> > > and

> > > > > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is

> familiar

> > > to

> > > > > all

> > > > > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and

> Lagna

> > > > > correct

> > > > > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > > > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions

> in the

> > > > > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions

> are

> > > alone

> > > > > taken

> > > > > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that

> the

> > > > > seers

> > > > > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it

> then

> > > we

> > > > > do.

> > > > > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also

> > > played a

> > > > > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The

> Rasi

> > > > > Kundali is

> > > > > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical

> chart.

> > > > > > ---------------------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > ----

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a

> > > good

> > > > > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get

> new

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help

> of

> > > > > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

> > > participated

> > > > > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > > > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and

> with

> > > > > God's

> > > > > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private

> predictions

> > > and

> > > > > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me

> they

> > > have

> > > > > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it

> doesnt

> > > > > mean i

> > > > > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > > > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

> > > translator

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there

> is

> > > any

> > > > > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing

> so

> > > many

> > > > > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas

> and

> > > > > imaginary

> > > > > > > lagnas etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > > > > imaginary?

> > > > > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha

> and

> > > > > Rashi.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas

> then

> > > there

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one

> who

> > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn

> astrology.Amshas as

> > > > > per me

> > > > > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the

> grade of

> > > > > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > > > > corresponding

> > > > > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi

> will

> > > help

> > > > > us.

> > > > > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> > > > > elapsed

> > > > > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha

> will

> > > > > help us.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords

> in

> > > > > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of

> > > rashi

> > > > > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as

> far as

> > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

> > > mercury

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > 9th.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get

> numerous

> > > > > personal

> > > > > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the

> best

> > > of

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > ability.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang

> <jyotish@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

> > > presenting

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > another rationale.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in

> > > aspects

> > > > > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference

> to

> > > its

> > > > > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology

> has

> > > > > used

> > > > > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue

> > > here)

> > > > > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> > > > > additional

> > > > > > > aspects etc).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D

> charts,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of

> navapancham

> > > > > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be

> derived.

> > > > > Just

> > > > > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

> > > conclusion.

> > > > > But

> > > > > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > > > > ************************************************

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka -

> A

> > > > > Revisit

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i

> would

> > > > > prefer to

> > > > > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen

> any

> > > > > refrences

> > > > > > > bout

> > > > > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-

> similar

> > > to

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific

> purpose

> > > like

> > > > > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities

> have

> > > > > deeper

> > > > > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi

> chakra

> > > you

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can

> represnt

> > > ehe

> > > > > > > amshas as

> > > > > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a

> > > planet

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South

> inidans do

> > > > > both.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you

> can

> > > see

> > > > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even

> if

> > > you

> > > > > draw

> > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said

> rashi

> > > > > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

> > > Ghatika,you

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha

> lagna

> > > > > etc

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from

> > > amsha

> > > > > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > > > > definitions.They are

> > > > > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised

> concern.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which

> clearly

> > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > > > > me.Rashige is

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

> > > amshaka

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations

> and

> > > > > > > explanations

> > > > > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have

> > > shown

> > > > > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > > > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They

> were

> > > all

> > > > > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you

> may

> > > > > like.If

> > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

> > > not,that

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > ok too.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from

> yours

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood

> how a

> > > > > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

> > > advised by

> > > > > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

> > > everything

> > > > > > > about a

> > > > > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and

> placement

> > > of

> > > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > > lords.

> > > > > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a

> jataka

> > > one

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha

> chart

> > > only.

> > > > > As

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha

> shastyamsha

> > > is

> > > > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi

> > > chart

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or

> akshavedaamsha

> > > > > chart. The

> > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha

> that

> > > is a

> > > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart

> it is

> > > > > said to

> > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that

> > > sthana

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same

> time

> > > the

> > > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > > owned

> > > > > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi

> > > than

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > > > > occupying own

> > > > > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts

> > > where

> > > > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South

> > > Indians

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > write

> > > > > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned

> by

> > > > > you.

> > > > > > > Even

> > > > > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where

> rules

> > > like

> > > > > > > bhavas

> > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on

> Parashara

> > > > > advising

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > draw

> > > > > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same

> manner as

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a

> > > graha

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet

> that

> > > has

> > > > > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only

> point of

> > > > > > > > > difference

> > > > > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be

> seen

> > > in

> > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I

> can

> > > not

> > > > > take

> > > > > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I

> know

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > word

> > > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > > > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as

> well,you

> > > > > know

> > > > > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not

> take

> > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis

> within

> > > Rashi

> > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can

> either

> > > write

> > > > > on a

> > > > > > > > > piece

> > > > > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or

> you

> > > can

> > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

> > > indians

> > > > > used

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

> > > amshas in

> > > > > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of

> a

> > > planet

> > > > > > > > > falling

> > > > > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can

> see

> > > > > saptamsha

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child

> matters.This

> > > > > explains

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to

> bhavas

> > > in

> > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of

> a

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > > (not

> > > > > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and

> can

> > > be

> > > > > used

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > > > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas

> (In

> > > > > general

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find

> > > that

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > amshas

> > > > > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

> > > possible

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and

> bhavas.This

> > > is

> > > > > so,as

> > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

> > > concern

> > > > > > > raised by

> > > > > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the

> refernce

> > > > > points

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

> > > Lagna/Hora

> > > > > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen

> from

> > > the

> > > > > same

> > > > > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as

> seperate

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

> > > Karakamsha

> > > > > is the

> > > > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha

> is

> > > the

> > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > > on to

> > > > > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake

> shloka

> > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to

> see

> > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

> > > Rajayoga.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to

> see

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > strength

> > > > > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand

> what

> > > i am

> > > > > > > > > trying to

> > > > > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a

> > > graha

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of

> the

> > > said

> > > > > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are

> aspecting

> > > or

> > > > > > > joining

> > > > > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the

> > > Rashi

> > > > > on to

> > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our

> AK

> > > is

> > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by

> Shubha

> > > > > > > grahas -

> > > > > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I

> hope

> > > he

> > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva

> cha

> > > > > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to

> Graha

> > > > > > > drishti.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha

> > > Mihira

> > > > > > > list or

> > > > > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

> > > having

> > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > > > > criticising

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> > > > > assume ,a

> > > > > > > > > short

> > > > > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i

> am

> > > > > pretty

> > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do

> not

> > > get

> > > > > > > swayed

> > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always

> been

> > > good

> > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still

> somewhere

> > > in

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > i

> > > > > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If

> not

> > > kindly

> > > > > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would

> have

> > > been

> > > > > > > > > better

> > > > > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you

> > > refer

> > > > > to.

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

> > > divisional

> > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>> be

> > > > > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> > > > > propounded

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or

> occupation

> > > of

> > > > > > > grahas?

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you

> look at

> > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > >>> results

> > > > > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and

> SaStyaMsha

> > > if

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > >>> are

> > > > > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > > > > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte

> > > jaato

> > > > > > > raajaa

> > > > > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

> > > occupying

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which

> can

> > > not be

> > > > > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course

> one

> > > has

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > over

> > > > > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara

> did

> > > > > talk

> > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas

> that

> > > do

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > >>> about

> > > > > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

> > > reactions

> > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what

> he

> > > has

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > say.

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

> > > charts

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity

> at

> > > all.

> > > > > So

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi

> chart

> > > can be

> > > > > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > > > > >>> is

> > > > > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters

> of

> > > what

> > > > > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > > > > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > > > > ca

> > > > > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa

> > > yatra me

> > > > > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members

> again

> > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on

> Lagna

> > > > > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this

> with due

> > > > > > > > > attention

> > > > > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of

> our

> > > > > doubts.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna

> in

> > > all

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > six

> > > > > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same

> planet,

> > > it

> > > > > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect,

> the

> > > > > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that

> this is

> > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > drishti

> > > > > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of

> > > full,

> > > > > half

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha

> > > drishti

> > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti,

> there

> > > are

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > grades

> > > > > > > > >>> of

> > > > > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right

> as

> > > Sage

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of

> Lagna

> > > will

> > > > > fall

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > > > > placements can

> > > > > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought

> > > which

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

> > > talking

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is

> my

> > > > > doubt.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam

> did

> > > not

> > > > > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact,

> I

> > > see no

> > > > > > > > > scope to

> > > > > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri

> Santhanam

> > > > > wrote

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the

> divisional

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > here. I

> > > > > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects

> in

> > > > > > > divisional

> > > > > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

> > > longitudinal

> > > > > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without

> commenting

> > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain

> this

> > > > > fully. "

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > > > > ''Aspects are

> > > > > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -

> which is

> > > > > just

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > > > > Shadvargake -

> > > > > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many

> scholars

> > > who

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a

> preconcluded

> > > > > notion

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is

> against

> > > the

> > > > > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> > > > > scholars of

> > > > > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > > > > defintion.But

> > > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > >>> did

> > > > > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

> > > Probably

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes

> ofcourse

> > > > > they all

> > > > > > > > > fall

> > > > > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > > > > Demonstrating

> > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the

> logic

> > > in

> > > > > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself

> referred to

> > > the

> > > > > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> > > > > chapter''.

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

> > > aspect

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > happen.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

> > > manuscripts

> > > > > (yes

> > > > > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present)

> which i

> > > had

> > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been

> a

> > > > > different

> > > > > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> > > > > Mahamuni

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the

> shlokas

> > > > > > > interpreted

> > > > > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able

> to

> > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > >>> these

> > > > > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka

> > > roots

> > > > > back

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha

> > > roots

> > > > > back

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots

> > > back

> > > > > as per

> > > > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within

> Rashi

> > > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish

> parampara.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > > > > intelligence and

> > > > > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the

> > > great

> > > > > souls

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >>> all

> > > > > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about

> pencil -

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to

> use

> > > an

> > > > > eraser

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

> > > something

> > > > > we did

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > >>> not

> > > > > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on

> the

> > > road

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> -----------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > -

> > > > > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> -------------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> > > Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

//Thanks again for your encouragement to students

like me.//

 

Sir you are humbling me.

Sir, you are all respected members of the wise counsel.

 

Everyone knows its people like me who wish to get out

of wise debates, are actually students, cause I have

not much to offer.

 

I have always mantained my respect to a few members of

this Forum, including your good self.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- In , " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji

>

> Thanks for your words.

>

> In reality ,i may be having 1/4th of knowledge and experience that

> you are possessing.Just because i am able to understand one basic

> point in Jyotish,i am not above you or K.N.Raoji or anyone else.

>

> This is a misunderstanding among many.Names like K.N.Rao is not

> achieved through few debates in Jyotish.It is through a life long

> effort and dedication.

>

> But our effort is to see,if any errors have crept in

> inadvertently ,from the original understanding over the years.

>

> Comparing the views of sages who lived long back,with contemporary

> scholars,one gets a clear impression that,there has beeen a slight

> misunderstanding.Thus the efforts as we are not supposed to

> compromise on fundamentals.

>

> Thanks again for your encouragement to students like me.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

>

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeepji,

> >

> > Yes Sir, I agree here, with you. The astronomical

> > points (Degrees) which trigger certain effects in

> > natives Life through transits, etc, are not imaginary,

> > but real. Let me also say that I appreciate the knowledge

> > you all possess,and have learnt from these threads,

> > that there is much astrology yet to be read by me,

> > no doubt. This is a honest appraisal .

> >

> > regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > >

> > > I wil try to explain again with whatever knowledge that i possess.

> > >

> > > Not only the ascending degree,but the degrees ofthe planets as

> well

> > > is the decidin factor.They are not imgaginary ,but an

> astronomical

> > > fact.Lagna navamsha sector too is an astronomical degree.The

> point is

> > > why do we have 9 different aries navamshas within rashi

> chakra.Why

> > > all those sectors link to Aries.It means due to tattwa

> > > patterns,certain points in space and time are interelated.Rashi

> is a

> > > collection of tattwa.These 9 sectors thus relate to one

> collective

> > > tattwa called Rashi.

> > >

> > > As Rashi and Bhava are syonymns ,bhava has to be analysed from a

> > > rashi of 30 degrees.

> > >

> > > Thus the rashi/lagna on to which lagna bindu is falling becomes

> Birth

> > > Lagna.The Rashi/Lagna on to which Chndra indu falls becomes

> Chandra

> > > Lagna and similarly Surya.

> > >

> > > The rashi on to which Karaka graha bindu is relating through

> > > navamsha ,becomes Karakamsha lagna.Similarly if you can relate

> the

> > > rashi on to which Lagna bindu is relting through navamsha,it

> becomes

> > > lagna navamsha.From this Rashi you can see,bhavas similar to

> bhavat

> > > bhavam.Aspects are based on the plantary placements w.r tthis

> rashi.

> > >

> > > What you see in navamsha chakra are showing amsha rashi link.They

> are

> > > not astronomically placed (as Dr.Raman has said) to have

> > > aspect,though Dr.Raman considers aspect.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeepji,

> > > >

> > > > I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> > > > to explain properly, it seems.

> > > > When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> > > > Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> > > > Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> > > > consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> > > > imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> > > > house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> > > > we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> > > > Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> > > > Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> > > > imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> > > > (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

> > > >

> > > > I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> > > > consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> > > > in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> > > > is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> > > > physical.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > > > >

> > > > > You have asked a very relevant question.

> > > > >

> > > > > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the

> > > first

> > > > > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is

> it

> > > > > called Lagna?

> > > > >

> > > > > Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > > > > synonymns.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> > > > > analysed.

> > > > >

> > > > > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora

> lgna,ghatika

> > > > > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > > > > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> > > > >

> > > > > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You

> said in

> > > > > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is

> from

> > > > > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > > > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > > > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > > > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > > > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > > > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > > > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > > > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > > > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > > > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > > > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > > > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > > > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > > > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > > > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > > > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > > > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > > > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > > > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > > > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > > > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > > > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > > > > as the Lagnas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > > > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > > > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > > > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > > > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > > > > and certain derivations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > > > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > > > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > > > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > > > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > > > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > > > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > > > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > > > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > bhaskar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ---------------------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Question No, 70-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

> > > importance

> > > > > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

> > > astronomical

> > > > > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> > > > > considered

> > > > > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the

> planets

> > > are

> > > > > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are

> found

> > > and

> > > > > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is

> familiar

> > > to

> > > > > all

> > > > > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and

> Lagna

> > > > > correct

> > > > > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > > > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions

> in the

> > > > > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions

> are

> > > alone

> > > > > taken

> > > > > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that

> the

> > > > > seers

> > > > > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it

> then

> > > we

> > > > > do.

> > > > > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also

> > > played a

> > > > > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The

> Rasi

> > > > > Kundali is

> > > > > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical

> chart.

> > > > > > ---------------------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > ----

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a

> > > good

> > > > > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get

> new

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help

> of

> > > > > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

> > > participated

> > > > > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > > > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and

> with

> > > > > God's

> > > > > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private

> predictions

> > > and

> > > > > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me

> they

> > > have

> > > > > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it

> doesnt

> > > > > mean i

> > > > > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > > > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

> > > translator

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there

> is

> > > any

> > > > > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing

> so

> > > many

> > > > > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas

> and

> > > > > imaginary

> > > > > > > lagnas etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > > > > imaginary?

> > > > > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha

> and

> > > > > Rashi.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas

> then

> > > there

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one

> who

> > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn

> astrology.Amshas as

> > > > > per me

> > > > > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the

> grade of

> > > > > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > > > > corresponding

> > > > > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi

> will

> > > help

> > > > > us.

> > > > > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> > > > > elapsed

> > > > > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha

> will

> > > > > help us.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords

> in

> > > > > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of

> > > rashi

> > > > > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as

> far as

> > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

> > > mercury

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > 9th.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get

> numerous

> > > > > personal

> > > > > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the

> best

> > > of

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > ability.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang

> <jyotish@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

> > > presenting

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > another rationale.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in

> > > aspects

> > > > > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference

> to

> > > its

> > > > > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology

> has

> > > > > used

> > > > > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue

> > > here)

> > > > > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> > > > > additional

> > > > > > > aspects etc).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D

> charts,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of

> navapancham

> > > > > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be

> derived.

> > > > > Just

> > > > > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

> > > conclusion.

> > > > > But

> > > > > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > > > > ************************************************

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka -

> A

> > > > > Revisit

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i

> would

> > > > > prefer to

> > > > > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen

> any

> > > > > refrences

> > > > > > > bout

> > > > > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-

> similar

> > > to

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific

> purpose

> > > like

> > > > > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities

> have

> > > > > deeper

> > > > > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi

> chakra

> > > you

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can

> represnt

> > > ehe

> > > > > > > amshas as

> > > > > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a

> > > planet

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South

> inidans do

> > > > > both.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you

> can

> > > see

> > > > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even

> if

> > > you

> > > > > draw

> > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said

> rashi

> > > > > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

> > > Ghatika,you

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha

> lagna

> > > > > etc

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from

> > > amsha

> > > > > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > > > > definitions.They are

> > > > > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised

> concern.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which

> clearly

> > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > > > > me.Rashige is

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

> > > amshaka

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations

> and

> > > > > > > explanations

> > > > > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have

> > > shown

> > > > > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > > > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They

> were

> > > all

> > > > > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you

> may

> > > > > like.If

> > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

> > > not,that

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > ok too.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from

> yours

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood

> how a

> > > > > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

> > > advised by

> > > > > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

> > > everything

> > > > > > > about a

> > > > > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and

> placement

> > > of

> > > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > > lords.

> > > > > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a

> jataka

> > > one

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha

> chart

> > > only.

> > > > > As

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha

> shastyamsha

> > > is

> > > > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi

> > > chart

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or

> akshavedaamsha

> > > > > chart. The

> > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha

> that

> > > is a

> > > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart

> it is

> > > > > said to

> > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that

> > > sthana

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same

> time

> > > the

> > > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > > owned

> > > > > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi

> > > than

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > > > > occupying own

> > > > > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts

> > > where

> > > > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South

> > > Indians

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > write

> > > > > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned

> by

> > > > > you.

> > > > > > > Even

> > > > > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where

> rules

> > > like

> > > > > > > bhavas

> > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on

> Parashara

> > > > > advising

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > draw

> > > > > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same

> manner as

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a

> > > graha

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet

> that

> > > has

> > > > > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only

> point of

> > > > > > > > > difference

> > > > > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be

> seen

> > > in

> > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I

> can

> > > not

> > > > > take

> > > > > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I

> know

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > word

> > > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > > > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as

> well,you

> > > > > know

> > > > > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not

> take

> > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis

> within

> > > Rashi

> > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can

> either

> > > write

> > > > > on a

> > > > > > > > > piece

> > > > > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or

> you

> > > can

> > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

> > > indians

> > > > > used

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

> > > amshas in

> > > > > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of

> a

> > > planet

> > > > > > > > > falling

> > > > > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can

> see

> > > > > saptamsha

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child

> matters.This

> > > > > explains

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to

> bhavas

> > > in

> > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of

> a

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > > (not

> > > > > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and

> can

> > > be

> > > > > used

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > > > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas

> (In

> > > > > general

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find

> > > that

> > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > amshas

> > > > > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

> > > possible

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and

> bhavas.This

> > > is

> > > > > so,as

> > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

> > > concern

> > > > > > > raised by

> > > > > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the

> refernce

> > > > > points

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

> > > Lagna/Hora

> > > > > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen

> from

> > > the

> > > > > same

> > > > > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as

> seperate

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

> > > Karakamsha

> > > > > is the

> > > > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha

> is

> > > the

> > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > > on to

> > > > > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake

> shloka

> > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to

> see

> > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

> > > Rajayoga.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to

> see

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > strength

> > > > > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand

> what

> > > i am

> > > > > > > > > trying to

> > > > > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a

> > > graha

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of

> the

> > > said

> > > > > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are

> aspecting

> > > or

> > > > > > > joining

> > > > > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the

> > > Rashi

> > > > > on to

> > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our

> AK

> > > is

> > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by

> Shubha

> > > > > > > grahas -

> > > > > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I

> hope

> > > he

> > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva

> cha

> > > > > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to

> Graha

> > > > > > > drishti.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha

> > > Mihira

> > > > > > > list or

> > > > > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

> > > having

> > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > > > > criticising

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> > > > > assume ,a

> > > > > > > > > short

> > > > > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i

> am

> > > > > pretty

> > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do

> not

> > > get

> > > > > > > swayed

> > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always

> been

> > > good

> > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still

> somewhere

> > > in

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > i

> > > > > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If

> not

> > > kindly

> > > > > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would

> have

> > > been

> > > > > > > > > better

> > > > > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you

> > > refer

> > > > > to.

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

> > > divisional

> > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>> be

> > > > > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> > > > > propounded

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or

> occupation

> > > of

> > > > > > > grahas?

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you

> look at

> > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > >>> results

> > > > > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and

> SaStyaMsha

> > > if

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > >>> are

> > > > > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > > > > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte

> > > jaato

> > > > > > > raajaa

> > > > > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

> > > occupying

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which

> can

> > > not be

> > > > > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course

> one

> > > has

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > over

> > > > > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara

> did

> > > > > talk

> > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas

> that

> > > do

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > >>> about

> > > > > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

> > > reactions

> > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what

> he

> > > has

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > say.

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

> > > charts

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity

> at

> > > all.

> > > > > So

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi

> chart

> > > can be

> > > > > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > > > > >>> is

> > > > > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters

> of

> > > what

> > > > > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > > > > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > > > > ca

> > > > > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa

> > > yatra me

> > > > > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members

> again

> > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on

> Lagna

> > > > > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this

> with due

> > > > > > > > > attention

> > > > > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of

> our

> > > > > doubts.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna

> in

> > > all

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > six

> > > > > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same

> planet,

> > > it

> > > > > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect,

> the

> > > > > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that

> this is

> > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > drishti

> > > > > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of

> > > full,

> > > > > half

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha

> > > drishti

> > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti,

> there

> > > are

> > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > grades

> > > > > > > > >>> of

> > > > > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right

> as

> > > Sage

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of

> Lagna

> > > will

> > > > > fall

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > > > > placements can

> > > > > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought

> > > which

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

> > > talking

> > > > > about

> > > > > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is

> my

> > > > > doubt.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam

> did

> > > not

> > > > > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact,

> I

> > > see no

> > > > > > > > > scope to

> > > > > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri

> Santhanam

> > > > > wrote

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the

> divisional

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > here. I

> > > > > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects

> in

> > > > > > > divisional

> > > > > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

> > > longitudinal

> > > > > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without

> commenting

> > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain

> this

> > > > > fully. "

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > > > > ''Aspects are

> > > > > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -

> which is

> > > > > just

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > > > > Shadvargake -

> > > > > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many

> scholars

> > > who

> > > > > were

> > > > > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a

> preconcluded

> > > > > notion

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is

> against

> > > the

> > > > > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> > > > > scholars of

> > > > > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > > > > defintion.But

> > > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > >>> did

> > > > > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

> > > Probably

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes

> ofcourse

> > > > > they all

> > > > > > > > > fall

> > > > > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > > > > Demonstrating

> > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the

> logic

> > > in

> > > > > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself

> referred to

> > > the

> > > > > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> > > > > chapter''.

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

> > > aspect

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > happen.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

> > > manuscripts

> > > > > (yes

> > > > > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present)

> which i

> > > had

> > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been

> a

> > > > > different

> > > > > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> > > > > Mahamuni

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the

> shlokas

> > > > > > > interpreted

> > > > > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able

> to

> > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > >>> these

> > > > > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka

> > > roots

> > > > > back

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha

> > > roots

> > > > > back

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots

> > > back

> > > > > as per

> > > > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within

> Rashi

> > > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish

> parampara.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > > > > intelligence and

> > > > > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the

> > > great

> > > > > souls

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > >>> all

> > > > > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about

> pencil -

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to

> use

> > > an

> > > > > eraser

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

> > > something

> > > > > we did

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > >>> not

> > > > > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on

> the

> > > road

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> -----------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > -

> > > > > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> -------------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> > > Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji

 

As I have observed over few forums, you are few of those astrologers -

who dare to predict. Most of theorists, just quote shlokas from the books.

 

Please do not come out of the debate. It is very important debate

(unlike routine interpretation issue), as the entire Varga chart

interpretation model (presented by great astrologers) is questioned as

wrong one. So - it is important opportunity, for us to correct us, if

Shri Pradeep is able to put forth with case studies and predictive model.

 

I personally do not want to miss such learning opportunity. I hope -

you stay on the thread and participate with your experiences.

 

regards / Prafulla

 

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> //Thanks again for your encouragement to students

> like me.//

>

> Sir you are humbling me.

> Sir, you are all respected members of the wise counsel.

>

> Everyone knows its people like me who wish to get out

> of wise debates, are actually students, cause I have

> not much to offer.

>

> I have always mantained my respect to a few members of

> this Forum, including your good self.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

-- In , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji

> >

> > Thanks for your words.

> >

> > In reality ,i may be having 1/4th of knowledge and experience that

> > you are possessing.Just because i am able to understand one basic

> > point in Jyotish,i am not above you or K.N.Raoji or anyone else.

> >

> > This is a misunderstanding among many.Names like K.N.Rao is not

> > achieved through few debates in Jyotish.It is through a life long

> > effort and dedication.

> >

> > But our effort is to see,if any errors have crept in

> > inadvertently ,from the original understanding over the years.

> >

> > Comparing the views of sages who lived long back,with contemporary

> > scholars,one gets a clear impression that,there has beeen a slight

> > misunderstanding.Thus the efforts as we are not supposed to

> > compromise on fundamentals.

> >

> > Thanks again for your encouragement to students like me.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeepji,

> > >

> > > Yes Sir, I agree here, with you. The astronomical

> > > points (Degrees) which trigger certain effects in

> > > natives Life through transits, etc, are not imaginary,

> > > but real. Let me also say that I appreciate the knowledge

> > > you all possess,and have learnt from these threads,

> > > that there is much astrology yet to be read by me,

> > > no doubt. This is a honest appraisal .

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > > >

> > > > I wil try to explain again with whatever knowledge that i possess.

> > > >

> > > > Not only the ascending degree,but the degrees ofthe planets as

> > well

> > > > is the decidin factor.They are not imgaginary ,but an

> > astronomical

> > > > fact.Lagna navamsha sector too is an astronomical degree.The

> > point is

> > > > why do we have 9 different aries navamshas within rashi

> > chakra.Why

> > > > all those sectors link to Aries.It means due to tattwa

> > > > patterns,certain points in space and time are interelated.Rashi

> > is a

> > > > collection of tattwa.These 9 sectors thus relate to one

> > collective

> > > > tattwa called Rashi.

> > > >

> > > > As Rashi and Bhava are syonymns ,bhava has to be analysed from a

> > > > rashi of 30 degrees.

> > > >

> > > > Thus the rashi/lagna on to which lagna bindu is falling becomes

> > Birth

> > > > Lagna.The Rashi/Lagna on to which Chndra indu falls becomes

> > Chandra

> > > > Lagna and similarly Surya.

> > > >

> > > > The rashi on to which Karaka graha bindu is relating through

> > > > navamsha ,becomes Karakamsha lagna.Similarly if you can relate

> > the

> > > > rashi on to which Lagna bindu is relting through navamsha,it

> > becomes

> > > > lagna navamsha.From this Rashi you can see,bhavas similar to

> > bhavat

> > > > bhavam.Aspects are based on the plantary placements w.r tthis

> > rashi.

> > > >

> > > > What you see in navamsha chakra are showing amsha rashi link.They

> > are

> > > > not astronomically placed (as Dr.Raman has said) to have

> > > > aspect,though Dr.Raman considers aspect.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeepji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> > > > > to explain properly, it seems.

> > > > > When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> > > > > Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> > > > > Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> > > > > consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> > > > > imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> > > > > house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> > > > > we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> > > > > Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> > > > > Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> > > > > imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> > > > > (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> > > > > consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> > > > > in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> > > > > is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> > > > > physical.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have asked a very relevant question.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns for the

> > > > first

> > > > > > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is

> > it

> > > > > > called Lagna?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now Varahmihira says -Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > > > > > synonymns.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart can be

> > > > > > analysed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora

> > lgna,ghatika

> > > > > > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > > > > > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You

> > said in

> > > > > > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is not.Reference is

> > from

> > > > > > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > > > > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > > > > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > > > > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > > > > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > > > > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > > > > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > > > > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > > > > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > > > > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > > > > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > > > > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > > > > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > > > > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > > > > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > > > > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > > > > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > > > > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > > > > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > > > > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > > > > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > > > > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > > > > > as the Lagnas.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > > > > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > > > > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > > > > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > > > > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > > > > > and certain derivations.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > > > > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > > > > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > > > > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > > > > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > > > > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > > > > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > > > > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > > > > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > bhaskar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ---------------------------

> > ----

> > > > ---

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Question No, 70-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

> > > > importance

> > > > > > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

> > > > astronomical

> > > > > > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra, which is

> > > > > > considered

> > > > > > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the

> > planets

> > > > are

> > > > > > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are

> > found

> > > > and

> > > > > > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is

> > familiar

> > > > to

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and

> > Lagna

> > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > > > > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions

> > in the

> > > > > > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions

> > are

> > > > alone

> > > > > > taken

> > > > > > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption that

> > the

> > > > > > seers

> > > > > > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more about it

> > then

> > > > we

> > > > > > do.

> > > > > > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism also

> > > > played a

> > > > > > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The

> > Rasi

> > > > > > Kundali is

> > > > > > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical

> > chart.

> > > > > > > ---------------------------

> > ----

> > > > ---

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I have a

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get

> > new

> > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help

> > of

> > > > > > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

> > > > participated

> > > > > > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > > > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2 years

> > > > > > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list and

> > with

> > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private

> > predictions

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me

> > they

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it

> > doesnt

> > > > > > mean i

> > > > > > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding longitudinal

> > > > > > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

> > > > translator

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if there

> > is

> > > > any

> > > > > > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing

> > so

> > > > many

> > > > > > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas

> > and

> > > > > > imaginary

> > > > > > > > lagnas etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > > > > > imaginary?

> > > > > > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > > > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha

> > and

> > > > > > Rashi.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas

> > then

> > > > there

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one

> > who

> > > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn

> > astrology.Amshas as

> > > > > > per me

> > > > > > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the

> > grade of

> > > > > > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > > > > > corresponding

> > > > > > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi

> > will

> > > > help

> > > > > > us.

> > > > > > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of navamshas

> > > > > > elapsed

> > > > > > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha

> > will

> > > > > > help us.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th lords

> > in

> > > > > > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th houses of

> > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as

> > far as

> > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

> > > > mercury

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > 9th.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get

> > numerous

> > > > > > personal

> > > > > > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the

> > best

> > > > of

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > ability.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang

> > <jyotish@>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

> > > > presenting

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > another rationale.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal reference in

> > > > aspects

> > > > > > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more reference

> > to

> > > > its

> > > > > > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic astrology

> > has

> > > > > > used

> > > > > > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10 issue

> > > > here)

> > > > > > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from mars as

> > > > > > additional

> > > > > > > > aspects etc).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D

> > charts,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of

> > navapancham

> > > > > > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be

> > derived.

> > > > > > Just

> > > > > > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

> > > > conclusion.

> > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > > > > > ************************************************

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake Shloka -

> > A

> > > > > > Revisit

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i

> > would

> > > > > > prefer to

> > > > > > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen

> > any

> > > > > > refrences

> > > > > > > > bout

> > > > > > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-

> > similar

> > > > to

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific

> > purpose

> > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities

> > have

> > > > > > deeper

> > > > > > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi

> > chakra

> > > > you

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can

> > represnt

> > > > ehe

> > > > > > > > amshas as

> > > > > > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a

> > > > planet

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South

> > inidans do

> > > > > > both.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you

> > can

> > > > see

> > > > > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even

> > if

> > > > you

> > > > > > draw

> > > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said

> > rashi

> > > > > > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

> > > > Ghatika,you

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha

> > lagna

> > > > > > etc

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from

> > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > > > > > definitions.They are

> > > > > > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised

> > concern.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which

> > clearly

> > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > > > > > me.Rashige is

> > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

> > > > amshaka

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations

> > and

> > > > > > > > explanations

> > > > > > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have

> > > > shown

> > > > > > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the

> > > > > > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They

> > were

> > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you

> > may

> > > > > > like.If

> > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

> > > > not,that

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > ok too.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from

> > yours

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not understood

> > how a

> > > > > > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

> > > > advised by

> > > > > > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

> > > > everything

> > > > > > > > about a

> > > > > > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and

> > placement

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > > > lords.

> > > > > > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a

> > jataka

> > > > one

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha

> > chart

> > > > only.

> > > > > > As

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha

> > shastyamsha

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi

> > > > chart

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or

> > akshavedaamsha

> > > > > > chart. The

> > > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha

> > that

> > > > is a

> > > > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart

> > it is

> > > > > > said to

> > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for that

> > > > sthana

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same

> > time

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > > > owned

> > > > > > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi

> > > > than

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > > > > > occupying own

> > > > > > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts

> > > > where

> > > > > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South

> > > > Indians

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > write

> > > > > > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned

> > by

> > > > > > you.

> > > > > > > > Even

> > > > > > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where

> > rules

> > > > like

> > > > > > > > bhavas

> > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on

> > Parashara

> > > > > > advising

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > draw

> > > > > > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same

> > manner as

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a

> > > > graha

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet

> > that

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only

> > point of

> > > > > > > > > > difference

> > > > > > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be

> > seen

> > > > in

> > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I

> > can

> > > > not

> > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I

> > know

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > word

> > > > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > > >> without context is generally related to Navamsha or

> > > > > > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as

> > well,you

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not

> > take

> > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis

> > within

> > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can

> > either

> > > > write

> > > > > > on a

> > > > > > > > > > piece

> > > > > > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or

> > you

> > > > can

> > > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

> > > > indians

> > > > > > used

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

> > > > amshas in

> > > > > > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of

> > a

> > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > > falling

> > > > > > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can

> > see

> > > > > > saptamsha

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child

> > matters.This

> > > > > > explains

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to

> > bhavas

> > > > in

> > > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of

> > a

> > > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > (not

> > > > > > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and

> > can

> > > > be

> > > > > > used

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha

> > > > > > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas

> > (In

> > > > > > general

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find

> > > > that

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > amshas

> > > > > > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

> > > > possible

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and

> > bhavas.This

> > > > is

> > > > > > so,as

> > > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

> > > > concern

> > > > > > > > raised by

> > > > > > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the

> > refernce

> > > > > > points

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

> > > > Lagna/Hora

> > > > > > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen

> > from

> > > > the

> > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as

> > seperate

> > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

> > > > Karakamsha

> > > > > > is the

> > > > > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha

> > is

> > > > the

> > > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > > > on to

> > > > > > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake

> > shloka

> > > > is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to

> > see

> > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

> > > > Rajayoga.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to

> > see

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > strength

> > > > > > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand

> > what

> > > > i am

> > > > > > > > > > trying to

> > > > > > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a

> > > > graha

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of

> > the

> > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are

> > aspecting

> > > > or

> > > > > > > > joining

> > > > > > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the

> > > > Rashi

> > > > > > on to

> > > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our

> > AK

> > > > is

> > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by

> > Shubha

> > > > > > > > grahas -

> > > > > > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I

> > hope

> > > > he

> > > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva

> > cha

> > > > > > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to

> > Graha

> > > > > > > > drishti.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha

> > > > Mihira

> > > > > > > > list or

> > > > > > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

> > > > having

> > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > > > > > criticising

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i

> > > > > > assume ,a

> > > > > > > > > > short

> > > > > > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i

> > am

> > > > > > pretty

> > > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do

> > not

> > > > get

> > > > > > > > swayed

> > > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always

> > been

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still

> > somewhere

> > > > in

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > i

> > > > > > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If

> > not

> > > > kindly

> > > > > > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> <%40>,

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would

> > have

> > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > better

> > > > > > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you

> > > > refer

> > > > > > to.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

> > > > divisional

> > > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > >>> be

> > > > > > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be

> > > > > > propounded

> > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or

> > occupation

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > grahas?

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you

> > look at

> > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > > >>> results

> > > > > > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and

> > SaStyaMsha

> > > > if

> > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > >>> are

> > > > > > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > > > > > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte

> > > > jaato

> > > > > > > > raajaa

> > > > > > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

> > > > occupying

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which

> > can

> > > > not be

> > > > > > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course

> > one

> > > > has

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > over

> > > > > > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara

> > did

> > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas

> > that

> > > > do

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > > >>> about

> > > > > > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

> > > > reactions

> > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see what

> > he

> > > > has

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > say.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

> > > > charts

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity

> > at

> > > > all.

> > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi

> > chart

> > > > can be

> > > > > > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > > > > > >>> is

> > > > > > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters

> > of

> > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > > > > > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > > > > > ca

> > > > > > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa

> > > > yatra me

> > > > > > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members

> > again

> > > > to

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on

> > Lagna

> > > > > > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this

> > with due

> > > > > > > > > > attention

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of

> > our

> > > > > > doubts.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna

> > in

> > > > all

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > six

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same

> > planet,

> > > > it

> > > > > > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect,

> > the

> > > > > > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that

> > this is

> > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > drishti

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the mention of

> > > > full,

> > > > > > half

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha

> > > > drishti

> > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti,

> > there

> > > > are

> > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > grades

> > > > > > > > > >>> of

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right

> > as

> > > > Sage

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of

> > Lagna

> > > > will

> > > > > > fall

> > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > > > > > placements can

> > > > > > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought

> > > > which

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

> > > > talking

> > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is

> > my

> > > > > > doubt.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam

> > did

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In fact,

> > I

> > > > see no

> > > > > > > > > > scope to

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri

> > Santhanam

> > > > > > wrote

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the

> > divisional

> > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > > here. I

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects

> > in

> > > > > > > > divisional

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

> > > > longitudinal

> > > > > > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without

> > commenting

> > > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain

> > this

> > > > > > fully. "

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > > > > > ''Aspects are

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -

> > which is

> > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > > > > > Shadvargake -

> > > > > > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many

> > scholars

> > > > who

> > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a

> > preconcluded

> > > > > > notion

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is

> > against

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from elderly

> > > > > > scholars of

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > > > > > defintion.But

> > > > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > >>> did

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

> > > > Probably

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes

> > ofcourse

> > > > > > they all

> > > > > > > > > > fall

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > > > > > Demonstrating

> > > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the

> > logic

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself

> > referred to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier

> > > > > > chapter''.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

> > > > aspect

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > happen.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

> > > > manuscripts

> > > > > > (yes

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present)

> > which i

> > > > had

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been

> > a

> > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by

> > > > > > Mahamuni

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the

> > shlokas

> > > > > > > > interpreted

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able

> > to

> > > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > > >>> these

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka

> > > > roots

> > > > > > back

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha

> > > > roots

> > > > > > back

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots

> > > > back

> > > > > > as per

> > > > > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within

> > Rashi

> > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish

> > parampara.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > > > > > intelligence and

> > > > > > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of the

> > > > great

> > > > > > souls

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > >>> all

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about

> > pencil -

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to

> > use

> > > > an

> > > > > > eraser

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

> > > > something

> > > > > > we did

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > >>> not

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on

> > the

> > > > road

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> -----------------

> > ----

> > > > ---

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> -------------------

> > ----

> > > > ---

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> > > > Release

> > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Prafullaji,

 

Yes I have been predicting on many forums, at

times even at cost of failure, because many times

we do not know who has pasted the enquiry,

it may be from some overjealous astrologer,

in some false ids, yet I attempt to predict.

Normally when a client comes to my humble home

with his birth particulars, I try to read

blindly, and ask him to wait till I speak, and

predict the problem and the reason of his coming

to me, much before he confirms the same.

And due to Lord Krishnas grace, whenever I have

approached the matter humbly,

I get the desired results which prove right,

and whenever humilty dissapears and pride takes

its place, I get the wrong inputs.Therefore

I do not consider myself as much knowledgable

but God helps, if you are honest,is what I

believe in, basically.

 

I have stopped predicting for blind charts on

the Forums, because normally the querists

put their own family's charts on the quiz, and

take the enjoyment of the predictions, which

is fun for them, and waste of time for us.

and most of the time campism is going on, in

various forums,where they wish to push their

own astros image forward, and undermine few

others.In absence of verification of predictions

made, which cannot be done for personal charts,

I have now stopped indulging in these games.

 

Though challeneges are not to be accepted in

realms of astrology,which I do at times,when it is

competetive, but take it as a game to enjoy.,and

not seriously for image keeping.Failures ar

always a stepping stone for success, and

should be taken sportingly. And some water

has to flow, before a dam is built to stand.

 

here I got disinterested in this thread, because

all talk and no application of these talks, puts

me off. I believe Shri Chandrasekharji is a SJC Guru

and has spoken on some partial aspects etc. I

would like to know his straightforward opinion

on the issues of this thread, and what is his

experience after being in company of the

giants like Shri PVR and Rathji, and also some case

studies. I also wished Shri Pradeepji would do the

same and we learn something.

 

Beating around the bush is not what I wish to be

a part of, actual predictive astrology, alongwith the

theories propounded, is what I was looking for, in

this thread, which is sadly missing, hence I

was wishing to stay away.

 

For me these long debates and unnecessary business of

quoting texts and theories means nothing, in fact zero,

in absence of examples, in a simple lucid manner,

without lengthy descriptions.It has been 3 days of waste

of time, and 2 nights of delayed sleep for me, nothing

else.

 

I am still to digest the basic books of BV Raman Sahab,

and Bhasin too, which are still today, the best models of

predictive tools for me. Shri Santhanamji, Shri KN Rao

Sahab, and so many others are all my role models. I wish

to learn from them, and not through the ancient texts,

which have already been read by these stalwarts,I cannot do

better reading than them ,or interpretation, in any which

way.

 

I am very much here only Sir, but much disullusioned.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " Prafulla Gang " <jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji

>

> As I have observed over few forums, you are few of those astrologers -

> who dare to predict. Most of theorists, just quote shlokas from the

books.

>

> Please do not come out of the debate. It is very important debate

> (unlike routine interpretation issue), as the entire Varga chart

> interpretation model (presented by great astrologers) is questioned as

> wrong one. So - it is important opportunity, for us to correct us, if

> Shri Pradeep is able to put forth with case studies and predictive

model.

>

> I personally do not want to miss such learning opportunity. I hope -

> you stay on the thread and participate with your experiences.

>

> regards / Prafulla

>

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > //Thanks again for your encouragement to students

> > like me.//

> >

> > Sir you are humbling me.

> > Sir, you are all respected members of the wise counsel.

> >

> > Everyone knows its people like me who wish to get out

> > of wise debates, are actually students, cause I have

> > not much to offer.

> >

> > I have always mantained my respect to a few members of

> > this Forum, including your good self.

> >

> > regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -- In , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > >

> > > Thanks for your words.

> > >

> > > In reality ,i may be having 1/4th of knowledge and experience that

> > > you are possessing.Just because i am able to understand one basic

> > > point in Jyotish,i am not above you or K.N.Raoji or anyone else.

> > >

> > > This is a misunderstanding among many.Names like K.N.Rao is not

> > > achieved through few debates in Jyotish.It is through a life long

> > > effort and dedication.

> > >

> > > But our effort is to see,if any errors have crept in

> > > inadvertently ,from the original understanding over the years.

> > >

> > > Comparing the views of sages who lived long back,with contemporary

> > > scholars,one gets a clear impression that,there has beeen a slight

> > > misunderstanding.Thus the efforts as we are not supposed to

> > > compromise on fundamentals.

> > >

> > > Thanks again for your encouragement to students like me.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeepji,

> > > >

> > > > Yes Sir, I agree here, with you. The astronomical

> > > > points (Degrees) which trigger certain effects in

> > > > natives Life through transits, etc, are not imaginary,

> > > > but real. Let me also say that I appreciate the knowledge

> > > > you all possess,and have learnt from these threads,

> > > > that there is much astrology yet to be read by me,

> > > > no doubt. This is a honest appraisal .

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > > > >

> > > > > I wil try to explain again with whatever knowledge that i

possess.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not only the ascending degree,but the degrees ofthe planets as

> > > well

> > > > > is the decidin factor.They are not imgaginary ,but an

> > > astronomical

> > > > > fact.Lagna navamsha sector too is an astronomical degree.The

> > > point is

> > > > > why do we have 9 different aries navamshas within rashi

> > > chakra.Why

> > > > > all those sectors link to Aries.It means due to tattwa

> > > > > patterns,certain points in space and time are interelated.Rashi

> > > is a

> > > > > collection of tattwa.These 9 sectors thus relate to one

> > > collective

> > > > > tattwa called Rashi.

> > > > >

> > > > > As Rashi and Bhava are syonymns ,bhava has to be analysed

from a

> > > > > rashi of 30 degrees.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus the rashi/lagna on to which lagna bindu is falling becomes

> > > Birth

> > > > > Lagna.The Rashi/Lagna on to which Chndra indu falls becomes

> > > Chandra

> > > > > Lagna and similarly Surya.

> > > > >

> > > > > The rashi on to which Karaka graha bindu is relating through

> > > > > navamsha ,becomes Karakamsha lagna.Similarly if you can relate

> > > the

> > > > > rashi on to which Lagna bindu is relting through navamsha,it

> > > becomes

> > > > > lagna navamsha.From this Rashi you can see,bhavas similar to

> > > bhavat

> > > > > bhavam.Aspects are based on the plantary placements w.r tthis

> > > rashi.

> > > > >

> > > > > What you see in navamsha chakra are showing amsha rashi

link.They

> > > are

> > > > > not astronomically placed (as Dr.Raman has said) to have

> > > > > aspect,though Dr.Raman considers aspect.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeepji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sorry, I am still not understood, and I failed

> > > > > > to explain properly, it seems.

> > > > > > When we consider the Chandra or Surya Lagna , as the

> > > > > > Lagna, when physically at time of birth, some other

> > > > > > Lagna was rising, then it is understood that the

> > > > > > consideration of these Lagnas as Lagna points are

> > > > > > imaginary, because we are treating them as the first

> > > > > > house. By consideration of these points as imaginary

> > > > > > we are not considering the dictums mentioned in the

> > > > > > Shastra that these Lagnas are not important, or the

> > > > > > Raashi in which these two planets were placed are,

> > > > > > imaginary. I am only talking about the Lagna Bindu.

> > > > > > (The Ascendant)taken as point of reference to judge.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am accentuating the fact that just like when we

> > > > > > consider these imaginary Lagnas too as important,

> > > > > > in same way, Navamsha Lagna too

> > > > > > is important, though it may be symbolic and not

> > > > > > physical.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have asked a very relevant question.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Parashara says,Lagna/Kshethra/Rashi etc are synonymns

for the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > Varga of a 30 degree sector commonly called as Rashi.Why is

> > > it

> > > > > > > called Lagna?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now Varahmihira says

-Rashi/Riksha/Kshethra/Bhava/Bhavana are

> > > > > > > synonymns.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thus Lagna is any 30 degree sector from which a chart

can be

> > > > > > > analysed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We have natal lagna,suryalagna,chandra lagna,hora

> > > lgna,ghatika

> > > > > > > lagna,arudha lagna,karakamsha lagna,Lagna navamsha,lagna

> > > > > > > drekkana,Udaya Lagna.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When we dont say anything it means Sambhava or birth lagna.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thuse these are all w.r to rashi chakra.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All these are valid rashis and not anything imaginary.You

> > > said in

> > > > > > > your mail surya lagna is imaginary.Which is

not.Reference is

> > > from

> > > > > > > the Lagna where surya is placed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Though I do not wish to be a part of this thread,

> > > > > > > > anymore,but since my name has appeared,let me reply.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What is the Lagna ? Is it not the rising point

> > > > > > > > noticed in the eastern horizon at the time of birth ?

> > > > > > > > Suppose Leo rises as the Ascendant, and Mars is posited

> > > > > > > > in Leo. Sun is in Gemini , and Moon is in Sagittarius.

> > > > > > > > Yet we have been rightly taught to check the major

> > > > > > > > ponts whether they are repeated from the Surya and

> > > > > > > > Chandra Lagnas too. In above case while checking a

> > > > > > > > particular matter from the Surya or Chandra Lagna,

> > > > > > > > would not we be considering these Lagnas as imaginary

> > > > > > > > lagnas, since actuially gemini

> > > > > > > > or sagittarius has not arisen in the eastern horizon,

> > > > > > > > but Leo has. Thats what I meant when I used the term

> > > > > > > > imaginary points. ShriBV Raman has clearly mentioned

> > > > > > > > the navamshas as imaginary points in his answer to a

> > > > > > > > reply I posted earlier and posted at the end of this

> > > > > > > > mail. Shri BV Raman Sahab has clearly mentioned that

> > > > > > > > the Navamsha chart has imaginary points and is

> > > > > > > > symbolic. (See and read his reply as below, but this

> > > > > > > > is common sense). sme way Surya and Chandra Lagna are

> > > > > > > > imaginary points for individual charts, when we treat

> > > > > > > > the Rashis wherein teh Sun and Moon, are posited

> > > > > > > > as the Lagnas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But as I mentioned earlier, the transits on these

> > > > > > > > sensitive points 0f 3.20edegrees are not imaginary,

> > > > > > > > when the Slower moving ones move on these, like

> > > > > > > > Saturn or Jupiter. And the Navamsha chart is basically

> > > > > > > > used to consider the strength of the various planets

> > > > > > > > and certain derivations.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Another point- Rashi is sidderent and Amsha is different.

> > > > > > > > Amsha is a prt of the rashi. rashi can contain the amsha

> > > > > > > > but amsha cannot contain the Rashi.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Personal comments- rashi chart is not the best choice for

> > > > > > > > prediction. bhava chalit is better and so is Navamsha.

> > > > > > > > In fact these 3 have to be combined, and one cannot

> > > > > > > > undermine the importance of any. the great nadi

> > > > > > > > predictions of yore were not based on Rashi alone, but

> > > > > > > > on the degreecal compartments of the planets and the sign

> > > > > > > > cusps. But that is another story.....

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > bhaskar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

---------------------------

> > > ----

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > A Catechism of Astrology, by BV Raman.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Question No, 70-

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why si the Navamsha Chakra considered as being of equal

> > > > > importance

> > > > > > > > to Rasi in matter of prediction ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Answer by BV Raman-

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In rasi Chakra, planets are placed according to their

> > > > > astronomical

> > > > > > > > positions, in the Zodiac. In the Navamsha chakra,

which is

> > > > > > > considered

> > > > > > > > to be second in importance only to the Rasi chakra, the

> > > planets

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > arranged according to the subdivisions in which they are

> > > found

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > named in order of signs beginning from Aries. This is

> > > familiar

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > students. Beyond giving the positions of the planets and

> > > Lagna

> > > > > > > correct

> > > > > > > > to 3 1/4 degrees, an INDEPENDENT CHART IS PREPARED , and

> > > > > > > > considered ALONGWITH RASI kUNDALI. No doubt the positions

> > > in the

> > > > > > > > Navamsha Chart are imaginary if their relative positions

> > > are

> > > > > alone

> > > > > > > taken

> > > > > > > > into account. But we have to proceed on the assumption

that

> > > the

> > > > > > > seers

> > > > > > > > who propounded the science of astrology knew more

about it

> > > then

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > do.

> > > > > > > > They found that with astronomical accuracy, symbolism

also

> > > > > played a

> > > > > > > > great part, and attributed equal importance to both. The

> > > Rasi

> > > > > > > Kundali is

> > > > > > > > an astronomical chart and Navamsha Chakra is a symbolical

> > > chart.

> > > > > > > >

---------------------------

> > > ----

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Do you think ,i am not using them in predictions.I

have a

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > collection of charts with me and i am fortunate to get

> > > new

> > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > very frequently.I am extensively studying with the help

> > > of

> > > > > > > > > charts.You can see numerous quizzes in which i have

> > > > > participated

> > > > > > > > > using amshas alone.

> > > > > > > > > You can see the prediction given on Gordon Brown 2

years

> > > > > > > > > back.Transit amshas,dasha all are given in this list

and

> > > with

> > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > > grace,it has come true.I have given many private

> > > predictions

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > with the grace of GOD and the gurus who have guided me

> > > they

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > come true.If i am not boasting them in front of you,it

> > > doesnt

> > > > > > > mean i

> > > > > > > > > am not seeing charts.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It is not at all a western concept regarding

longitudinal

> > > > > > > > > aspects.Pls read the views of Late Santhanam the very

> > > > > translator

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > BPHS and the discussions that i had with shri PVR Rao.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Please dont go with a concluded mind.Try to see if

there

> > > is

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > substance in what i am saying.For eg inspite of writing

> > > so

> > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > mails ,Bhaskar ji is talking about Sun and Moon Lagnas

> > > and

> > > > > > > imaginary

> > > > > > > > > lagnas etc.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Is anyone prepared to read ans ubnderstand.Is sun lagna

> > > > > > > imaginary?

> > > > > > > > > Moon lagna imgainary?

> > > > > > > > > They are placements.Imaginary is the link between amsha

> > > and

> > > > > > > Rashi.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If no body is prepared to read hard work and pramanas

> > > then

> > > > > there

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > no use at all in these discussons.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Shri K.N.Rao has told in this list many times that one

> > > who

> > > > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > > > predict with rashi chakra can never learn

> > > astrology.Amshas as

> > > > > > > per me

> > > > > > > > > will confirm the promises and help us in judging the

> > > grade of

> > > > > > > > > yoga.Good and bad amshas of relevant bhava lords and

> > > > > > > corresponding

> > > > > > > > > dashas will help us.Chara/sthira nature of amsha-rashi

> > > will

> > > > > help

> > > > > > > us.

> > > > > > > > > nature of amsha lord will help us.The number of

navamshas

> > > > > > > elapsed

> > > > > > > > > will help us.In which bhava a planet is having navamsha

> > > will

> > > > > > > help us.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Eg in my case,sun mercury conjunct as 9th and 10th

lords

> > > in

> > > > > > > > > rashi.But their amshas fall in the 10th and 9th

houses of

> > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > > chakra respectively.Thus they have exchanged Rashis as

> > > far as

> > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > > sambandha is concerned.Sun is having amsha in 10th and

> > > > > mercury

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > 9th.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > For me sun and mercury antaras brought good.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > So pls don't assume i am not checking charts.I get

> > > numerous

> > > > > > > personal

> > > > > > > > > mails from list members and i try to reply back to the

> > > best

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > ability.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > -- In , Prafulla Gang

> > > <jyotish@>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear pradeep ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am not getting into your interpretation. But am

> > > > > presenting

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > another rationale.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > We all know the relevance of longitudinal

reference in

> > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > > > (well - western astrology has used it with more

reference

> > > to

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > degrees and longitudinal difference) and Vedic

astrology

> > > has

> > > > > > > used

> > > > > > > > > bhava / rashi ( I am not getting into D1 / D9 / D10

issue

> > > > > here)

> > > > > > > > > based aspects (e.g. 4th / 8th bhava / rashi from

mars as

> > > > > > > additional

> > > > > > > > > aspects etc).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But just plot them in degrees in chart..and go to D

> > > charts,

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > see their mutual relations. Else, relevance of

> > > navapancham

> > > > > > > > > relationship as most vital for any planet can not be

> > > derived.

> > > > > > > Just

> > > > > > > > > explore it and may be we are sitting with different

> > > > > conclusion.

> > > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > you got to apply them in prediction..not in theory.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > > > > > > > ************************************************

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > > > > > > > Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:58:41 -0000

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Re: Lagna Shadvargake

Shloka -

> > > A

> > > > > > > Revisit

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i

> > > would

> > > > > > > prefer to

> > > > > > > > > > > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen

> > > any

> > > > > > > refrences

> > > > > > > > > bout

> > > > > > > > > > > house but amshas always.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-

> > > similar

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific

> > > purpose

> > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > > > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and

dities

> > > have

> > > > > > > deeper

> > > > > > > > > > > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi

> > > chakra

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > > > anything and everything of a Jataka.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can

> > > represnt

> > > > > ehe

> > > > > > > > > amshas as

> > > > > > > > > > > we wish.How we interpret various relationships

that a

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South

> > > inidans do

> > > > > > > both.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you

> > > can

> > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > > > > > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even

> > > if

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > draw

> > > > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > > > > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said

> > > rashi

> > > > > > > > > chakra -did

> > > > > > > > > > > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or

> > > > > Ghatika,you

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > > > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha

> > > lagna

> > > > > > > etc

> > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen

from

> > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > > > > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic

> > > > > > > definitions.They are

> > > > > > > > > > > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised

> > > concern.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have given many references like paparkshe which

> > > clearly

> > > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > > > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with

> > > > > > > me.Rashige is

> > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said

> > > > > amshaka

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > to be

> > > > > > > > > > > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations

> > > and

> > > > > > > > > explanations

> > > > > > > > > > > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I

have

> > > > > shown

> > > > > > > > > > > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha

means the

> > > > > > > > > same.Neither

> > > > > > > > > > > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They

> > > were

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me.

> > > > > > > > > > > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions

you

> > > may

> > > > > > > like.If

> > > > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If

> > > > > not,that

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > ok too.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> I think the way I read a classic is different from

> > > yours

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > >> be due to the generation gap. I have not

understood

> > > how a

> > > > > > > > > > > Shashtyamsha

> > > > > > > > > > >> of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as

> > > > > advised by

> > > > > > > > > > > Parashara,

> > > > > > > > > > >> not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand

> > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > > about a

> > > > > > > > > > >> jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and

> > > placement

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > > > > lords.

> > > > > > > > > > >> So if one has to understand everything about a

> > > jataka

> > > > > one

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > >> look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha

> > > chart

> > > > > only.

> > > > > > > As

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >> occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha

> > > shastyamsha

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > concerned

> > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > >> refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the

Rasi

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > >> nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or

> > > akshavedaamsha

> > > > > > > chart. The

> > > > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > > >> is easier to understand if we see that if a graha

> > > that

> > > > > is a

> > > > > > > > > malefic

> > > > > > > > > > >> occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart

> > > it is

> > > > > > > said to

> > > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > >> good results so the results will not be bad for

that

> > > > > sthana

> > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > >> graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same

> > > time

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > bhava

> > > > > > > > > > > owned

> > > > > > > > > > >> by it could suffer as that would be a different

rasi

> > > > > than

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >> trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is

> > > > > > > occupying own

> > > > > > > > > > > rasi in

> > > > > > > > > > >> such a sthana).

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> By the way, I have seen too many south indian

charts

> > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > Navamsha

> > > > > > > > > > >> placement of grahas in a chart to accept that

South

> > > > > Indians

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > write

> > > > > > > > > > >> navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as

mentioned

> > > by

> > > > > > > you.

> > > > > > > > > Even

> > > > > > > > > > > Dr.

> > > > > > > > > > >> Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way.

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where

> > > rules

> > > > > like

> > > > > > > > > bhavas

> > > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > >> can be used, could you give your comments on

> > > Parashara

> > > > > > > advising

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > draw

> > > > > > > > > > >> Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same

> > > manner as

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > >> chakra? Do you think he was wrong?

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in

which a

> > > > > graha

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > amsha. It

> > > > > > > > > > >> is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet

> > > that

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > > traversed the

> > > > > > > > > > >> most number of Amshas in any rasi.

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only

> > > point of

> > > > > > > > > > > difference

> > > > > > > > > > >> amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be

> > > seen

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > > >> or navamsha chakra and same for the

karakamsha. I

> > > can

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > > >> Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far

as I

> > > know

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > word

> > > > > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > > > >> without context is generally related to

Navamsha or

> > > > > > > > > Dwadashaamsha.

> > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > >> have never seen it being used to indicate rasi.

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > >> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> As you have understood my views in the past as

> > > well,you

> > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > >>> that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not

> > > take

> > > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > >>> other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis

> > > within

> > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> I have mentioned in the past too that,you can

> > > either

> > > > > write

> > > > > > > on a

> > > > > > > > > > > piece

> > > > > > > > > > >>> of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate

diagram Or

> > > you

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > > >>> navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south

> > > > > indians

> > > > > > > used

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > >>> do.Key is one should be able to place the derived

> > > > > amshas in

> > > > > > > > > > >>> corresponding rashis.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> There are shlokas requesting us to see

navamsha of

> > > a

> > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > > > falling

> > > > > > > > > > >>> in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can

> > > see

> > > > > > > saptamsha

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > >>> planet falling in the 5th bhava for child

> > > matters.This

> > > > > > > explains

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >>> usage of particular vargas by relating them to

> > > bhavas

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > > > > chakra.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> On the other hand akshavedamsha and

shastyamsha of

> > > a

> > > > > > > planet

> > > > > > > > > (not

> > > > > > > > > > >>> shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific

matter and

> > > can

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > used

> > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > >>> assessing any purpose in general.

> > > > > > > > > > >>> In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and

Shubha

> > > > > > > > > shashtyamshas

> > > > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > >>> mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas

> > > (In

> > > > > > > general

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > >>> purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can

find

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > > amshas

> > > > > > > > > > >>> are used.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is

> > > > > possible

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > >>> one can use the rules such as aspects and

> > > bhavas.This

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > so,as

> > > > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > >>> are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the

> > > > > concern

> > > > > > > > > raised by

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Late santhanam.

> > > > > > > > > > >>> On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the

> > > refernce

> > > > > > > points

> > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > >>> change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra

> > > > > Lagna/Hora

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen

> > > from

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > >>> skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as

> > > seperate

> > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > >>> makes no difference.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-

> > > > > Karakamsha

> > > > > > > is the

> > > > > > > > > > > rashi

> > > > > > > > > > >>> on to which Karaka graha is having

amsha.Lagnamsha

> > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > > > > > on to

> > > > > > > > > > >>> which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake

> > > shloka

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >>> perfect example to understand this.Thus we

have to

> > > see

> > > > > > > graha

> > > > > > > > > > >>> placements and aspects on the said rashis to see

> > > > > Rajayoga.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> If you can recollect some shlokas which asks

us to

> > > see

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > strength

> > > > > > > > > > >>> of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand

> > > what

> > > > > i am

> > > > > > > > > > > trying to

> > > > > > > > > > >>> convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to

which a

> > > > > graha

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > > >>> navamsha, has got a role to play on the

ability of

> > > the

> > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > > garaha in

> > > > > > > > > > >>> delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are

> > > aspecting

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > joining

> > > > > > > > > > >>> such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if

the

> > > > > Rashi

> > > > > > > on to

> > > > > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > >>> our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and

our

> > > AK

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > > > amsha

> > > > > > > > > > >>> (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by

> > > Shubha

> > > > > > > > > grahas -

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Rajayoga results.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may

join.I

> > > hope

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > takes

> > > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > >>> as a request.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> The other full shloka is

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Now the gradation

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte

ardhameva

> > > cha

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to

> > > Graha

> > > > > > > > > drishti.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> On a personal note ,i have found recently in

Varaha

> > > > > Mihira

> > > > > > > > > list or

> > > > > > > > > > >>> so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is

> > > > > having

> > > > > > > > > identical

> > > > > > > > > > >>> views to mine.I could find that you were strongly

> > > > > > > criticising

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >>> misuse and misrepresentation of Varga

charts.Thus i

> > > > > > > assume ,a

> > > > > > > > > > > short

> > > > > > > > > > >>> stint at SJC can be a reason for your

leaning.But i

> > > am

> > > > > > > pretty

> > > > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > > >>> that you have your own views,very logical, and do

> > > not

> > > > > get

> > > > > > > > > swayed

> > > > > > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > > >>> easily.The way you interpret charts were always

> > > been

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > lessons

> > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > >>> me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still

> > > somewhere

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > mind

> > > > > > > > > > > i

> > > > > > > > > > >>> feel your short stint has left some influence.If

> > > not

> > > > > kindly

> > > > > > > > > > > pardon.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Respect

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> <%40>,

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> You present an argument well, no doubt. It would

> > > have

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > > better

> > > > > > > > > > >>> if you

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka

that you

> > > > > refer

> > > > > > > to.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> I have only a small question. If there are no

> > > > > divisional

> > > > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > >>> be

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume

to be

> > > > > > > propounded

> > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> Parashara, where do you see the aspects or

> > > occupation

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > grahas?

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> I would also like your comments on how to

> > > > > > > > > > >>> interpret " AkshavedaaMshake

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you

> > > look at

> > > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > > > >>> results

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and

> > > SaStyaMsha

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > > >>> are

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> to be drawn? There are many other shlokas

> > > > > > > like " KaarakaaMshe

> > > > > > > > > > > shubhe

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe.

shubhasaMvIkshIte

> > > > > jaato

> > > > > > > > > raajaa

> > > > > > > > > > >>> bhavati

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics

> > > > > occupying

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Karakamsha

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which

> > > can

> > > > > not be

> > > > > > > > > > >>> interpreted

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> to mean that they refer to rasis unless of

course

> > > one

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > over

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> fertile imagination, that indicate that

Parashara

> > > did

> > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj

yogas

> > > that

> > > > > do

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > > > >>> about

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> varying strengths of drishtis.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's

> > > > > reactions

> > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > >>> shloka

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> quoted above. it would be interesting to see

what

> > > he

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > say.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up

> > > > > charts

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > Ghati

> > > > > > > > > > >>> lagna,

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity

> > > at

> > > > > all.

> > > > > > > So

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >>> theory

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi

> > > chart

> > > > > can be

> > > > > > > > > > > drawn up

> > > > > > > > > > >>> is

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> not very correct, at least within the parameters

> > > of

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > > Parashara

> > > > > > > > > > >>> said.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is "

> > > > > > > kramaadeSaaM

> > > > > > > > > ca

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye

grahaa

> > > > > yatra me

> > > > > > > > > > > tatra te

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " .

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Respected members

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I would like to recall the attention of members

> > > again

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on

> > > Lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > Shadvargake

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this

> > > with due

> > > > > > > > > > > attention

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> and care as this may help us in solving most of

> > > our

> > > > > > > doubts.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if

lagna

> > > in

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > six

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> divisions is occupied or aspected by the same

> > > planet,

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > >>> constitutes

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the

aspect,

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > strength of

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that

> > > this is

> > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > > drishti

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> (which does not need houses), but the

mention of

> > > > > full,

> > > > > > > half

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that

graha

> > > > > drishti

> > > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti,

> > > there

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > grades

> > > > > > > > > > >>> of

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> aspects.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely

right

> > > as

> > > > > Sage

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of

> > > Lagna

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > fall

> > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha

> > > > > > > placements can

> > > > > > > > > > >>> aspect

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> those Rashis.The moment you add words or

thought

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is

> > > > > talking

> > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Vargas

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> and who asked us to bring in ''Varga

Charts'' is

> > > my

> > > > > > > doubt.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri

Santhanam

> > > did

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > >>> translate

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> the verse any differently than I would. In

fact,

> > > I

> > > > > see no

> > > > > > > > > > > scope to

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> translate differently. Under his notes, Sri

> > > Santhanam

> > > > > > > wrote

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> following:Aspects are referred to in the

> > > divisional

> > > > > > > charts

> > > > > > > > > > > here. I

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> am unable to fully conceive the logic in

aspects

> > > in

> > > > > > > > > divisional

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> charts for the sage himself referred to the

> > > > > longitudinal

> > > > > > > > > > > aspectual

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without

> > > commenting

> > > > > > > further

> > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> this controversial aspect I leave

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> it at that, accepting my limitations to explain

> > > this

> > > > > > > fully. "

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying -

> > > > > > > ''Aspects are

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> referred to in the divisional charts here'' -

> > > which is

> > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna

> > > > > > > Shadvargake -

> > > > > > > > > > >>> pointing

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many

> > > scholars

> > > > > who

> > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > > >>> trying

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> to interpret these shlokas, went with a

> > > preconcluded

> > > > > > > notion

> > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is

> > > against

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> fundamental definition from Parashara.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Classical examples and explanations from

elderly

> > > > > > > scholars of

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas

> > > > > > > defintion.But

> > > > > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > >>> did

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -

> > > > > Probably

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes

> > > ofcourse

> > > > > > > they all

> > > > > > > > > > > fall

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> within the Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -

> > > > > > > Demonstrating

> > > > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the

> > > logic

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > aspects

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> in divisional charts for the sage himself

> > > referred to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an

earlier

> > > > > > > chapter''.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an

> > > > > aspect

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > happen.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the

> > > > > manuscripts

> > > > > > > (yes

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present)

> > > which i

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had

been

> > > a

> > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > >>> story.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> If we violate definiton of Vargas as

mentioned by

> > > > > > > Mahamuni

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Parashara - can we still expect to get the

> > > shlokas

> > > > > > > > > interpreted

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> properly!!

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> If you may note contemporary scholars were able

> > > to

> > > > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > > > >>> these

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> in certain case.Shri Rath understood that

amshaka

> > > > > roots

> > > > > > > back

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that

Karakamsha

> > > > > roots

> > > > > > > back

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka

roots

> > > > > back

> > > > > > > as per

> > > > > > > > > > > them

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> in certain cases.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> In Reality they all relate back and fall within

> > > Rashi

> > > > > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish

> > > parampara.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I have tried my level best within my limited

> > > > > > > intelligence and

> > > > > > > > > > >>> leave

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> There is no disrespect at all towards any of

the

> > > > > great

> > > > > > > souls

> > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > >>> all

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> of us are in the same path.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about

> > > pencil -

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to

> > > use

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > eraser

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > >>> rub

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> out any mistakes. This means that correcting

> > > > > something

> > > > > > > we did

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > >>> not

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on

> > > the

> > > > > road

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> justice''.

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Kind Regds and thanks for your patience

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

-----------------

> > > ----

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > >>> ------

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database:

269.10.0/886 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > >>> 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

-------------------

> > > ----

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > 7/4/2007 1:40 PM

> > > > > > > > > > >>>

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>