Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Dear Prafulla, Pradeep and all, Prafulla quoted very interesting point re /mutual/ angular position of Me and Ve in Navamsa. Visti Larsen considers all angular placements from Karakamsha /navamsa/ very important /particularly in determination of devatas/. I'd like to hear more opinions and examples would be welcome. Thanks, Anna vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: Dear Prafulla ji I was not talking about shri Ranjans view. Shri Ranjan too had this doubt (aspects sun/venus etc) and Chandrashekhar ji corrected him. If you can give sanskrit shlokas all can chack -not only me any scholar.If you rememer when me and shri Narasimha were discussing he could only give Lagna shadvargake as example.Thus you can think. Also you can ask anyone if a chart is needed to know about amsha transits.Even if you see 3.2 degree sector or the corresponding root rashi,they are in rashi chakra. Regds Pradeep , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > many thanks for your pointer. > > Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back. > > I quote another reference: > Satyacharya: > " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas (conveyances). " > > There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred and navamsa chakras are referred. > > BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document; as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts and aspects therein. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > " Men who never get carried away should be. " > ************************************************ > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep > > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000 > > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? Quarter/Half > > aspects > > > > Dear Prafulla ji > > > > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please > > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly > > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect > > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are non- > > full aspects in rashi chart. > > > > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji too > > had given similr explanations. > > > > Regds > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Dear Pradeep, > >> > >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma has > > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury aspecting > > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious > > reference was to Navamsa " chart " . > >> > >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current age > > scholars !! > >> > >> regards / Prafulla Gang > >> http://www.prafulla.net > >> > >> " Men who never get carried away should be. " > >> ************************************************ > >> > >> > >>> > >>> jyotish@ > >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800 > >>> > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > >>> > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > >>> > >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment, be > >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the > > application > >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong > >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way). > >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in > > jyotish. > >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies - > > then at > >>> least, I will hear with open mind. > >>> > >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to commentaries - > > but my > >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views > > of " less read > >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri > > KN Rao / > >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do > > not " pretend " to > >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka business " > > with my > >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better > > quality > >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies. > >>> > >>> Of course - each one makes his choice. > >>> > >>> > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > >>> > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. " > >>> ************************************************ > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> sreesog@ > >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000 > >>>> > >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > >>>> > >>>> Dear Prafulla ji, > >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every one > > is > >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every > > chance > >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your > > argument is > >>>> right. > >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when > > you > >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and > > understand > >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow someone > > who > >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well. > >>>> Love, > >>>> Sreenadh > >>>> > >>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or > >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been > > any > >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must not > >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better > >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum > >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the > >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people - > > must > >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit > >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any > >>>> relevance. > >>>>> > >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang > >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net > >>>>> > >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > > to > >>>> be taken seriously. " > >>>>> ************************************************ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> sreesog@ > >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji, > >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just > > like > >>>> D1 > >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same. > >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of > > planets > >>>> in > >>>>>> Navamasa " > >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets > > are > >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna " > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the > > sages; > >>>> If > >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Love, > >>>>>> Sreenadh > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa > > chart > >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts - > > can be > >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang > >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > > right > >>>> to > >>>>>> be taken seriously. " > >>>>>>> ************************************************ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> sreesog@ > >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji, > >>>>>>>> ==> > >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. > >>>>>>>> <== > >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa > > chart > >>>>>> is > >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because > > it > >>>> is > >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas > > due > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons. > >>>>>>>> ==> > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet? > >>>>>>>> <== > >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of > > the > >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their > > importance. > >>>>>>>> ==> > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart > > like > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? > >>>>>>>> <== > >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. > > (There > >>>>>> is > >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ==> > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated > > as > >>>> if > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > >>>>>>>> <== > >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means > >>>> that. > >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is > >>>> wrong > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> mix the two. > >>>>>>>> ==> > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > >>>>>>>> <== > >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes > >>>>>> yoga in > >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it > > is > >>>> the > >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the > >>>>>> result > >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not > >>>>>> applicable > >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be > > considered > >>>> in > >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about > > aspect > >>>> or > >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi > > chart. > >>>>>>>> Love, > >>>>>>>> Sreenadh > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of > > the > >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa > > chart > >>>> is > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience > > so > >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood > > what > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > >>>>>>>>> important. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet? > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart > > like > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated > > as > >>>> if > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa > > chart, it > >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two > > equal > >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. > > What I > >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? > >>>> What > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many > > varga > >>>>>>>>> charts! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> Krishna > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > >>>>>>>>>> your > >>>>>>>>>> contributions. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > >>>>>>>>>> inputs > >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would > > like > >>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart > > alone > >>>>>>>>>> most > >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > >>>>>>>>>> approaches > >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very > > valuable; > >>>>>>>>>> at the > >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > >>>>>>>>>> chart (of > >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since > >>>>>>>>>> any of > >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the > > Rasi > >>>>>>>>>> chart > >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi > > chart > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several > >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas > > viewed > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > >>>>>>>>>> confirming > >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a > > separate > >>>>>>>>>> chart, > >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of > > checking > >>>>>>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > >>>>>>>>>> navamsa > >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at > > the > >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of > > Rasi. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in > > the > >>>>>>>>>> rasi > >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > >>>>>>>>>> condiered > >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why > > is > >>>>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even > > though > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its > >>>>>>>>>> positioning > >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened > > it; > >>>>>>>>>> means, > >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest > >>>>>>>>>> point for > >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its > >>>>>>>>>> strength > >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths > > for > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa > >>>>>>>>>> position > >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within > > the > >>>>>>>>>> rasi. > >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the > >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one > > of > >>>>>>>>>> them > >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the > >>>>>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; > > but > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it > > can > >>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise > > given > >>>>>>>>>> by the > >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi > >>>>>>>>>> chart > >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have > >>>>>>>>>> observed > >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the > >>>>>>>>>> 12th > >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi > >>>>>>>>>> chart > >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa > >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am > >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is > >>>>>>>>>> brought > >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence > > of > >>>>>>>>>> my life > >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa > > lagna > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion > >>>>>>>>>> here; I am > >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on > > the > >>>>>>>>>> chart, > >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always > > says. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the > > Rasi > >>>>>>>>>> chart > >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in > >>>>>>>>>> the 4th > >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, > > and > >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional > >>>>>>>>>> education). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize > >>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in > >>>>>>>>>> isolation of > >>>>>>>>>> the other. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, > >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar > >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. > >>>>>>>>>> First > >>>>>>>>>> there is > >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though > > it > >>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps > >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in > >>>>>>>>>> astrological > >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in > > the > >>>>>>>>>> context that > >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and > >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of > >>>>>>>>>> occupation of > >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha > >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya. > >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different > >>>>>>>>>> parameters. > >>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation > >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine > >>>>>>>>>> if he > >>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results > >>>>>>>>>> indicated on > >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential > >>>>>>>>>> promised by > >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in > >>>>>>>>>> rasi > >>>>>>>>>> chart, > >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to > > materialize. I > >>>>>>>>>> hope > >>>>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the > >>>>>>>>>> discussion on > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is > >>>>>>>>>> worth. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Take care, > >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has > >>>>>>>>>> one > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some > >>>>>>>>>> shlokas > >>>>>>>>>> which > >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view > >>>>>>>>>> point. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes > > the > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> answer and > >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by > > proper > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> === message truncated === > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > > ________ > >>>>>>>> ______________ > >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru. > >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews > > at > >>>>>>>> Games. > >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Dear Anna Yes - they are very meaningful issues. I referred on another thread on late Santhanam's views / case studies. SJC also follows them, and most other scholars (BV Raman, KN Rao) etc have also exhibited it. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " Men who never get carried away should be. " ************************************************ > > bona_mente > Sat, 7 Jul 2007 09:28:45 -0700 (PDT) > > Re: [)Navamsa Chart-Quarter/Half > aspects > > Dear Prafulla, Pradeep and all, > Prafulla quoted very interesting point re /mutual/ angular position of > Me and Ve in Navamsa. Visti Larsen considers all angular placements from > Karakamsha /navamsa/ very important /particularly in determination of > devatas/. I'd like to hear more opinions and examples would be welcome. > Thanks, > Anna > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > Dear Prafulla ji > > I was not talking about shri Ranjans view. > Shri Ranjan too had this doubt (aspects sun/venus etc) and > Chandrashekhar ji corrected him. > > If you can give sanskrit shlokas all can chack -not only me any > scholar.If you rememer when me and shri Narasimha were discussing he > could only give Lagna shadvargake as example.Thus you can think. > > Also you can ask anyone if a chart is needed to know about amsha > transits.Even if you see 3.2 degree sector or the corresponding root > rashi,they are in rashi chakra. > > Regds > Pradeep > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish > wrote: >> >> Dear Pradeep, >> >> many thanks for your pointer. >> >> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while > referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali > and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly > carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back. >> >> I quote another reference: >> Satyacharya: >> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the > navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas > (conveyances). " >> >> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in > transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred > and navamsa chakras are referred. >> >> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document; > as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts > and aspects therein. >> >> regards / Prafulla Gang >> http://www.prafulla.net >> >> " Men who never get carried away should be. " >> ************************************************ >> >> >>> >>> vijayadas_pradeep >>> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000 >>> >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > Quarter/Half >>> aspects >>> >>> Dear Prafulla ji >>> >>> The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please >>> check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly >>> mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect >>> etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are > non- >>> full aspects in rashi chart. >>> >>> Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji > too >>> had given similr explanations. >>> >>> Regds >>> Pradeep >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Pradeep, >>>> >>>> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma > has >>> given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury > aspecting >>> venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious >>> reference was to Navamsa " chart " . >>>> >>>> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current > age >>> scholars !! >>>> >>>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>>> http://www.prafulla.net >>>> >>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. " >>>> ************************************************ >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> jyotish@ >>>>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800 >>>>> >>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? >>>>> >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji >>>>> >>>>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment, > be >>>>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the >>> application >>>>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong >>>>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way). >>>>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in >>> jyotish. >>>>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies - >>> then at >>>>> least, I will hear with open mind. >>>>> >>>>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to > commentaries - >>> but my >>>>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views >>> of " less read >>>>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri >>> KN Rao / >>>>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do >>> not " pretend " to >>>>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka > business " >>> with my >>>>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better >>> quality >>>>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies. >>>>> >>>>> Of course - each one makes his choice. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net >>>>> >>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. " >>>>> ************************************************ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> sreesog@ >>>>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000 >>>>>> >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji, >>>>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every > one >>> is >>>>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every >>> chance >>>>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your >>> argument is >>>>>> right. >>>>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when >>> you >>>>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and >>> understand >>>>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow > someone >>> who >>>>>> says they see - you are right in that as well. >>>>>> Love, >>>>>> Sreenadh >>>>>> >>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or >>>>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been >>> any >>>>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must > not >>>>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better >>>>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum >>>>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the >>>>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people - >>> must >>>>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit >>>>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any >>>>>> relevance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > right >>> to >>>>>> be taken seriously. " >>>>>>> ************************************************ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> sreesog@ >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji, >>>>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just >>> like >>>>>> D1 >>>>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same. >>>>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of >>> planets >>>>>> in >>>>>>>> Navamasa " >>>>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets >>> are >>>>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna " >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the >>> sages; >>>>>> If >>>>>>>> not I don't have anything to say. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Love, >>>>>>>> Sreenadh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa >>> chart >>>>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts - >>> can be >>>>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I request members to share their experience. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the >>> right >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be taken seriously. " >>>>>>>>> ************************************************ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> sreesog@ >>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so > important? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji, >>>>>>>>>> ==> >>>>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. >>>>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa >>> chart >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because >>> it >>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other > amsas >>> due >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> the prior said reasons. >>>>>>>>>> ==> >>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the > overall >>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet? >>>>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of >>> the >>>>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their >>> importance. >>>>>>>>>> ==> >>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart >>> like >>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>>>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. >>> (There >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ==> >>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated >>> as >>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>>>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only > means >>>>>> that. >>>>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is >>>>>> wrong >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> mix the two. >>>>>>>>>> ==> >>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>>>>>>>>> <== >>>>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But > yes >>>>>>>> yoga in >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it >>> is >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict > the >>>>>>>> result >>>>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not >>>>>>>> applicable >>>>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be >>> considered >>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about >>> aspect >>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi >>> chart. >>>>>>>>>> Love, >>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy > Seetharama >>>>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of >>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa >>> chart >>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience >>> so >>>>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood >>> what >>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so >>>>>>>>>>> important. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the > overall >>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet? >>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart >>> like >>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated >>> as >>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa >>> chart, it >>>>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two >>> equal >>>>>>>>>>> halves representing the native. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. >>> What I >>>>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an > importance? >>>>>> What >>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many >>> varga >>>>>>>>>>> charts! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Krishna >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both > of >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> contributions. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your > valuable >>>>>>>>>>>> inputs >>>>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would >>> like >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart >>> alone >>>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the >>>>>>>>>>>> approaches >>>>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very >>> valuable; >>>>>>>>>>>> at the >>>>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as > separate >>>>>>>>>>>> chart (of >>>>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), > since >>>>>>>>>>>> any of >>>>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the >>> Rasi >>>>>>>>>>>> chart >>>>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi >>> chart >>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in > several >>>>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas >>> viewed >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for >>>>>>>>>>>> confirming >>>>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a >>> separate >>>>>>>>>>>> chart, >>>>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of >>> checking >>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in > the >>>>>>>>>>>> navamsa >>>>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should > be >>>>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence > at >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of >>> Rasi. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house > in >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> rasi >>>>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it > is >>>>>>>>>>>> condiered >>>>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. > Why >>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even >>> though >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its >>>>>>>>>>>> positioning >>>>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened >>> it; >>>>>>>>>>>> means, >>>>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the > weakest >>>>>>>>>>>> point for >>>>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its >>>>>>>>>>>> strength >>>>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of > strengths >>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The > navamsa >>>>>>>>>>>> position >>>>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> rasi. >>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both > the >>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi and >>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give > the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; >>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that > it >>> can >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise >>> given >>>>>>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>>>>>> rasi chart). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the > rasi >>>>>>>>>>>> chart >>>>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have >>>>>>>>>>>> observed >>>>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in > the >>>>>>>>>>>> 12th >>>>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the > rasi >>>>>>>>>>>> chart >>>>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa >>>>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am >>>>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by > Chandra) >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa > is >>>>>>>>>>>> brought >>>>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence >>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> my life >>>>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa >>> lagna >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion >>>>>>>>>>>> here; I am >>>>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> chart, >>>>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always >>> says. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the >>> Rasi >>>>>>>>>>>> chart >>>>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is > in >>>>>>>>>>>> the 4th >>>>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, >>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other > traditional >>>>>>>>>>>> education). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to > summarize >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in >>>>>>>>>>>> isolation of >>>>>>>>>>>> the other. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar >>>>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. > Rao. >>>>>>>>>>>> First >>>>>>>>>>>> there is >>>>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though >>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in >>>>>>>>>>>> astrological >>>>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> context that >>>>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha > and >>>>>>>>>>>> Swamsha >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of >>>>>>>>>>>> occupation of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in > karakamsha >>>>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different >>>>>>>>>>>> parameters. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation >>>>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of > mine >>>>>>>>>>>> if he >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the > results >>>>>>>>>>>> indicated on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the > potential >>>>>>>>>>>> promised by >>>>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in >>>>>>>>>>>> rasi >>>>>>>>>>>> chart, >>>>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to >>> materialize. I >>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the >>>>>>>>>>>> discussion on >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it > is >>>>>>>>>>>> worth. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to > the >>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha > has >>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to > the >>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some >>>>>>>>>>>> shlokas >>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view >>>>>>>>>>>> point. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes >>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> answer and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by >>> proper >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> === message truncated === >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> > ________ >>>>>>>>>> ______________ >>>>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru. >>>>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and > previews >>> at >>>>>>>>>> Games. >>>>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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