Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Dear Chandrashekhar, Ash and all members, I recently came across one opinion on foreign residence: that SAV points in forth House and 12th House determine the length of stay in foreign country- fourth stronger- temporary stay. I'd like to hear more opinions on this interesting topic, including D24 chart. Thanks Anna vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: Dear Chandrashekhar ji Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would prefer to take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any refrences bout house but amshas always. I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar to what we see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose like marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have deeper meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra you can see anything and everything of a Jataka. If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt ehe amshas as we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a planet is having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do both. Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can see bhavat bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if you draw them a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi chakra -did not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or Ghatika,you can take from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna etc from rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from amsha arrangement does not fall in linw with basic definitions.They are amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern. I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly means rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with me.Rashige is also not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said amshaka has to be seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and explanations to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have shown references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the same.Neither shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were all negelecting classical references.It is ok for me. You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may like.If any member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If not,that is ok too. Respect Pradeep , Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > I think the way I read a classic is different from yours and that could > be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a Shashtyamsha > of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as advised by Parashara, > not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand everything about a > jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement of bhava lords. > So if one has to understand everything about a jataka one will have to > look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart only. As to the > occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha is concerned that > refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi chart and that has > nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha chart. The reason > is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that is a malefic > occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is said to give > good results so the results will not be bad for that sthana if the said > graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time the bhava owned > by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi than the > trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is occupying own rasi in > such a sthana). > > By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts where Navamsha > placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South Indians only write > navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by you. Even Dr. > Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way. > > As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules like bhavas etc. > can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara advising to draw > Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as the rasi > chakra? Do you think he was wrong? > > Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a graha has amsha. It > is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that has traversed the > most number of Amshas in any rasi. > > The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of difference > amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen in rasi chakra > or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can not take > Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know the word amsha > without context is generally related to Navamsha or Dwadashaamsha. I > have never seen it being used to indicate rasi. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > As you have understood my views in the past as well,you know > > that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take aspects and > > other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within Rashi chakra. > > > > I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either write on a piece > > of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you can mention > > navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south indians used to > > do.Key is one should be able to place the derived amshas in > > corresponding rashis. > > > > There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a planet falling > > in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see saptamsha of a > > planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This explains the > > usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas in Rashi chakra. > > > > On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a planet (not > > shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can be used for > > assessing any purpose in general. > > In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha shashtyamshas are > > mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In general for all > > purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find that only amshas > > are used. > > > > Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is possible from which > > one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This is so,as they > > are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the concern raised by > > Late santhanam. > > On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce points can > > change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra Lagna/Hora > > Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from the same > > skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate charts but it > > makes no difference. > > > > Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-Karakamsha is the rashi > > on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is the Rashi on to > > which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka is the > > perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see graha > > placements and aspects on the said rashis to see Rajayoga. > > > > If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see the strength > > of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what i am trying to > > convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a graha is having > > navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the said garaha in > > delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting or joining > > such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the Rashi on to which > > our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK is having amsha > > (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha grahas - > > Rajayoga results. > > > > I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope he takes this > > as a request. > > > > The other full shloka is > > > > Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe > > Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama > > > > Now the gradation > > Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha > > Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam > > > > Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha drishti. > > > > On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha Mihira list or > > so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is having identical > > views to mine.I could find that you were strongly criticising the > > misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i assume ,a short > > stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am pretty sure > > that you have your own views,very logical, and do not get swayed so > > easily.The way you interpret charts were always been good lessons for > > me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere in my mind i > > feel your short stint has left some influence.If not kindly pardon. > > > > Respect > > Pradeep > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have been better > > if you > > > had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you refer to. > > > > > > I have only a small question. If there are no divisional charts to > > be > > > drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be propounded by > > > Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation of grahas? > > > > > > I would also like your comments on how to > > interpret " AkshavedaaMshake > > > caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at all the > > results > > > related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha if no charts > > are > > > to be drawn? There are many other shlokas like " KaarakaaMshe shubhe > > > vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte jaato raajaa > > bhavati > > > nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics occupying the > > Karakamsha > > > and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can not be > > interpreted > > > to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one has an over > > > fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did talk about > > > drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that do not talk > > about > > > varying strengths of drishtis. > > > > > > I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's reactions on the > > shloka > > > quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he has to say. > > > > > > And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up charts for Ghati > > lagna, > > > Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at all. So the > > theory > > > being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart can be drawn up > > is > > > not very correct, at least within the parameters of what Parashara > > said. > > > The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is " kramaadeSaaM ca > > > lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa yatra me tatra te > > > sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " . > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Respected members > > > > > > > > I would like to recall the attention of members again to the > > > > following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna Shadvargake > > > > Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due attention > > > > and care as this may help us in solving most of our doubts. > > > > > > > > Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in all the six > > > > divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet, it > > constitutes > > > > a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the strength of > > > > the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is rasi drishti > > > > (which does not need houses), but the mention of full, half and > > > > quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha drishti based on > > > > houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there are no grades > > of > > > > aspects. > > > > > > > > Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as Sage is > > > > mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna will fall on > > > > different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha placements can > > aspect > > > > those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought which are not > > > > mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is talking about > > Vargas > > > > and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my doubt. > > > > > > > > Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not > > translate > > > > the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I see no scope to > > > > translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam wrote the > > > > following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional charts here. I > > > > am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in divisional > > > > charts for the sage himself referred to the longitudinal aspectual > > > > evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting further on > > > > this controversial aspect I leave > > > > it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this fully. " > > > > > > > > Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying - ''Aspects are > > > > referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is just his > > > > asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna Shadvargake - > > pointing > > > > to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all. > > > > > > > > I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars who were > > trying > > > > to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded notion that > > > > Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against the > > > > fundamental definition from Parashara. > > > > > > > > Classical examples and explanations from elderly scholars of > > > > yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas defintion.But why > > did > > > > contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -Probably as vargas > > > > too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse they all fall > > > > within the Rashi chakra. > > > > > > > > But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -Demonstrating his > > > > greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects > > > > in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to the > > > > longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter''. > > > > Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an aspect can happen. > > > > > > > > If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the manuscripts(yes > > > > manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i had > > > > mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a different > > story. > > > > > > > > If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by Mahamuni > > > > Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas interpreted > > > > properly!! > > > > > > > > If you may note contemporary scholars were able to understand > > these > > > > in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka roots back to > > > > Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha roots back to > > > > rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots back as per them > > > > in certain cases. > > > > > > > > In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi chakra as > > > > explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara. > > > > > > > > I have tried my level best within my limited intelligence and > > leave > > > > it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts. > > > > > > > > There is no disrespect at all towards any of the great souls as > > all > > > > of us are in the same path. > > > > > > > > Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil - > > > > > > > > ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use an eraser to > > rub > > > > out any mistakes. This means that correcting something we did is > > not > > > > necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the road to > > > > justice''. > > > > > > > > Kind Regds and thanks for your patience > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: > > 7/4/2007 1:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Dear Anna, That appears to be logical as 4th also represents motherland and the stronger is the house the less likelihood of the jataka remaining away from it. similarly 12th bhava is related to distant lands so weaker or more harmed that it is, more is the possibility of one leaving motherland to go abroad. However I would also take into consideration, influences on the said bhavas and not only the SAV bindus there. Take care, Chandrashekhar. 108ar wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar, Ash and all members, > I recently came across one opinion on foreign residence: that SAV > points in forth House and 12th House determine the length of stay in > foreign country- fourth stronger- temporary stay. I'd like to hear > more opinions on this interesting topic, including D24 chart. > Thanks > Anna > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > <vijayadas_pradeep%40>> wrote: > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would prefer to > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any refrences bout > house but amshas always. > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar to what we > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose like > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have deeper > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra you can see > anything and everything of a Jataka. > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt ehe amshas as > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a planet is > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do both. > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can see bhavat > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if you draw them > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi chakra -did > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or Ghatika,you can take > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna etc from > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from amsha > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic definitions.They are > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern. > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly means > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with me.Rashige is also > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said amshaka has to be > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and explanations > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have shown > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the same.Neither > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were all > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me. > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may like.If any > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If not,that is ok too. > > Respect > Pradeep > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > I think the way I read a classic is different from yours and that > could > > be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a > Shashtyamsha > > of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as advised by > Parashara, > > not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand everything about a > > jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement of bhava > lords. > > So if one has to understand everything about a jataka one will have > to > > look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart only. As to > the > > occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha is concerned > that > > refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi chart and that > has > > nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha chart. The > reason > > is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that is a malefic > > occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is said to > give > > good results so the results will not be bad for that sthana if the > said > > graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time the bhava > owned > > by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi than the > > trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is occupying own > rasi in > > such a sthana). > > > > By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts where Navamsha > > placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South Indians only > write > > navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by you. Even > Dr. > > Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way. > > > > As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules like bhavas > etc. > > can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara advising to > draw > > Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as the rasi > > chakra? Do you think he was wrong? > > > > Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a graha has > amsha. It > > is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that has > traversed the > > most number of Amshas in any rasi. > > > > The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of > difference > > amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen in rasi > chakra > > or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can not take > > Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know the word > amsha > > without context is generally related to Navamsha or Dwadashaamsha. > I > > have never seen it being used to indicate rasi. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > As you have understood my views in the past as well,you know > > > that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take aspects and > > > other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within Rashi chakra. > > > > > > I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either write on a > piece > > > of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you can mention > > > navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south indians used to > > > do.Key is one should be able to place the derived amshas in > > > corresponding rashis. > > > > > > There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a planet > falling > > > in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see saptamsha of > a > > > planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This explains > the > > > usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas in Rashi > chakra. > > > > > > On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a planet (not > > > shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can be used > for > > > assessing any purpose in general. > > > In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha shashtyamshas > are > > > mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In general for > all > > > purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find that only > amshas > > > are used. > > > > > > Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is possible from > which > > > one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This is so,as > they > > > are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the concern raised by > > > Late santhanam. > > > On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce points can > > > change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra Lagna/Hora > > > Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from the same > > > skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate charts but > it > > > makes no difference. > > > > > > Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-Karakamsha is the > rashi > > > on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is the Rashi > on to > > > which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka is the > > > perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see graha > > > placements and aspects on the said rashis to see Rajayoga. > > > > > > If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see the > strength > > > of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what i am > trying to > > > convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a graha is having > > > navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the said > garaha in > > > delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting or joining > > > such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the Rashi on to > which > > > our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK is having > amsha > > > (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha grahas - > > > Rajayoga results. > > > > > > I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope he takes > this > > > as a request. > > > > > > The other full shloka is > > > > > > Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe > > > Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama > > > > > > Now the gradation > > > Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha > > > Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam > > > > > > Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha drishti. > > > > > > On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha Mihira list or > > > so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is having identical > > > views to mine.I could find that you were strongly criticising the > > > misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i assume ,a > short > > > stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am pretty sure > > > that you have your own views,very logical, and do not get swayed > so > > > easily.The way you interpret charts were always been good lessons > for > > > me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere in my mind > i > > > feel your short stint has left some influence.If not kindly > pardon. > > > > > > Respect > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have been > better > > > if you > > > > had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you refer to. > > > > > > > > I have only a small question. If there are no divisional charts > to > > > be > > > > drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be propounded by > > > > Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation of grahas? > > > > > > > > I would also like your comments on how to > > > interpret " AkshavedaaMshake > > > > caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at all the > > > results > > > > related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha if no > charts > > > are > > > > to be drawn? There are many other shlokas like " KaarakaaMshe > shubhe > > > > vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte jaato raajaa > > > bhavati > > > > nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics occupying the > > > Karakamsha > > > > and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can not be > > > interpreted > > > > to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one has an > over > > > > fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did talk about > > > > drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that do not > talk > > > about > > > > varying strengths of drishtis. > > > > > > > > I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's reactions on the > > > shloka > > > > quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he has to say. > > > > > > > > And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up charts for > Ghati > > > lagna, > > > > Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at all. So the > > > theory > > > > being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart can be > drawn up > > > is > > > > not very correct, at least within the parameters of what > Parashara > > > said. > > > > The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is " kramaadeSaaM ca > > > > lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa yatra me > tatra te > > > > sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Respected members > > > > > > > > > > I would like to recall the attention of members again to the > > > > > following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna > Shadvargake > > > > > Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due > attention > > > > > and care as this may help us in solving most of our doubts. > > > > > > > > > > Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in all the > six > > > > > divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet, it > > > constitutes > > > > > a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the > strength of > > > > > the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is rasi > drishti > > > > > (which does not need houses), but the mention of full, half > and > > > > > quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha drishti > based on > > > > > houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there are no > grades > > > of > > > > > aspects. > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as Sage is > > > > > mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna will fall > on > > > > > different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha placements can > > > aspect > > > > > those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought which are not > > > > > mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is talking about > > > Vargas > > > > > and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my doubt. > > > > > > > > > > Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not > > > translate > > > > > the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I see no > scope to > > > > > translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam wrote > the > > > > > following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional charts > here. I > > > > > am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in divisional > > > > > charts for the sage himself referred to the longitudinal > aspectual > > > > > evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting further > on > > > > > this controversial aspect I leave > > > > > it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this fully. " > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying - ''Aspects are > > > > > referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is just his > > > > > asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna Shadvargake - > > > pointing > > > > > to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all. > > > > > > > > > > I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars who were > > > trying > > > > > to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded notion > that > > > > > Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against the > > > > > fundamental definition from Parashara. > > > > > > > > > > Classical examples and explanations from elderly scholars of > > > > > yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas defintion.But > why > > > did > > > > > contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -Probably as > vargas > > > > > too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse they all > fall > > > > > within the Rashi chakra. > > > > > > > > > > But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -Demonstrating > his > > > > > greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic in > aspects > > > > > in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to the > > > > > longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter''. > > > > > Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an aspect can > happen. > > > > > > > > > > If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the manuscripts(yes > > > > > manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i had > > > > > mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a different > > > story. > > > > > > > > > > If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by Mahamuni > > > > > Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas interpreted > > > > > properly!! > > > > > > > > > > If you may note contemporary scholars were able to understand > > > these > > > > > in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka roots back > to > > > > > Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha roots back to > > > > > rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots back as per > them > > > > > in certain cases. > > > > > > > > > > In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi chakra > as > > > > > explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara. > > > > > > > > > > I have tried my level best within my limited intelligence and > > > leave > > > > > it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts. > > > > > > > > > > There is no disrespect at all towards any of the great souls > as > > > all > > > > > of us are in the same path. > > > > > > > > > > Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil - > > > > > > > > > > ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use an eraser > to > > > rub > > > > > out any mistakes. This means that correcting something we did > is > > > not > > > > > necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the road to > > > > > justice''. > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds and thanks for your patience > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release > Date: > > > 7/4/2007 1:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Dear Anna, I would not be able to time events w.r.t length of stay with the data given. SAV gives general trend but to time events, we need to go into detail. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca , 108ar <bona_mente wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar, Ash and all members, > I recently came across one opinion on foreign residence: that SAV points in forth House and 12th House determine the length of stay in foreign country- fourth stronger- temporary stay. I'd like to hear more opinions on this interesting topic, including D24 chart. > Thanks > Anna > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would prefer to > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any refrences bout > house but amshas always. > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar to what we > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose like > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have deeper > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra you can see > anything and everything of a Jataka. > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt ehe amshas as > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a planet is > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do both. > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can see bhavat > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if you draw them > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi chakra -did > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or Ghatika,you can take > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna etc from > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from amsha > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic definitions.They are > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern. > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly means > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with me.Rashige is also > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said amshaka has to be > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and explanations > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have shown > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the same.Neither > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were all > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me. > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may like.If any > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If not,that is ok too. > > Respect > Pradeep > , Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > I think the way I read a classic is different from yours and that > could > > be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a > Shashtyamsha > > of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as advised by > Parashara, > > not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand everything about a > > jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement of bhava > lords. > > So if one has to understand everything about a jataka one will have > to > > look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart only. As to > the > > occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha is concerned > that > > refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi chart and that > has > > nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha chart. The > reason > > is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that is a malefic > > occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is said to > give > > good results so the results will not be bad for that sthana if the > said > > graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time the bhava > owned > > by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi than the > > trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is occupying own > rasi in > > such a sthana). > > > > By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts where Navamsha > > placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South Indians only > write > > navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by you. Even > Dr. > > Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way. > > > > As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules like bhavas > etc. > > can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara advising to > draw > > Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as the rasi > > chakra? Do you think he was wrong? > > > > Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a graha has > amsha. It > > is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that has > traversed the > > most number of Amshas in any rasi. > > > > The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of > difference > > amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen in rasi > chakra > > or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can not take > > Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know the word > amsha > > without context is generally related to Navamsha or Dwadashaamsha. > I > > have never seen it being used to indicate rasi. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > As you have understood my views in the past as well,you know > > > that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take aspects and > > > other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within Rashi chakra. > > > > > > I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either write on a > piece > > > of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you can mention > > > navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south indians used to > > > do.Key is one should be able to place the derived amshas in > > > corresponding rashis. > > > > > > There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a planet > falling > > > in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see saptamsha of > a > > > planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This explains > the > > > usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas in Rashi > chakra. > > > > > > On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a planet (not > > > shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can be used > for > > > assessing any purpose in general. > > > In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha shashtyamshas > are > > > mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In general for > all > > > purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find that only > amshas > > > are used. > > > > > > Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is possible from > which > > > one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This is so,as > they > > > are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the concern raised by > > > Late santhanam. > > > On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce points can > > > change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra Lagna/Hora > > > Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from the same > > > skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate charts but > it > > > makes no difference. > > > > > > Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-Karakamsha is the > rashi > > > on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is the Rashi > on to > > > which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka is the > > > perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see graha > > > placements and aspects on the said rashis to see Rajayoga. > > > > > > If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see the > strength > > > of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what i am > trying to > > > convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a graha is having > > > navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the said > garaha in > > > delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting or joining > > > such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the Rashi on to > which > > > our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK is having > amsha > > > (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha grahas - > > > Rajayoga results. > > > > > > I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope he takes > this > > > as a request. > > > > > > The other full shloka is > > > > > > Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe > > > Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama > > > > > > Now the gradation > > > Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha > > > Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam > > > > > > Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha drishti. > > > > > > On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha Mihira list or > > > so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is having identical > > > views to mine.I could find that you were strongly criticising the > > > misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i assume ,a > short > > > stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am pretty sure > > > that you have your own views,very logical, and do not get swayed > so > > > easily.The way you interpret charts were always been good lessons > for > > > me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere in my mind > i > > > feel your short stint has left some influence.If not kindly > pardon. > > > > > > Respect > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have been > better > > > if you > > > > had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you refer to. > > > > > > > > I have only a small question. If there are no divisional charts > to > > > be > > > > drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be propounded by > > > > Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation of grahas? > > > > > > > > I would also like your comments on how to > > > interpret " AkshavedaaMshake > > > > caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at all the > > > results > > > > related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha if no > charts > > > are > > > > to be drawn? There are many other shlokas like " KaarakaaMshe > shubhe > > > > vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte jaato raajaa > > > bhavati > > > > nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics occupying the > > > Karakamsha > > > > and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can not be > > > interpreted > > > > to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one has an > over > > > > fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did talk about > > > > drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that do not > talk > > > about > > > > varying strengths of drishtis. > > > > > > > > I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's reactions on the > > > shloka > > > > quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he has to say. > > > > > > > > And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up charts for > Ghati > > > lagna, > > > > Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at all. So the > > > theory > > > > being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart can be > drawn up > > > is > > > > not very correct, at least within the parameters of what > Parashara > > > said. > > > > The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is " kramaadeSaaM ca > > > > lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa yatra me > tatra te > > > > sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Respected members > > > > > > > > > > I would like to recall the attention of members again to the > > > > > following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna > Shadvargake > > > > > Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due > attention > > > > > and care as this may help us in solving most of our doubts. > > > > > > > > > > Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in all the > six > > > > > divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet, it > > > constitutes > > > > > a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the > strength of > > > > > the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is rasi > drishti > > > > > (which does not need houses), but the mention of full, half > and > > > > > quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha drishti > based on > > > > > houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there are no > grades > > > of > > > > > aspects. > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as Sage is > > > > > mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna will fall > on > > > > > different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha placements can > > > aspect > > > > > those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought which are not > > > > > mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is talking about > > > Vargas > > > > > and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my doubt. > > > > > > > > > > Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not > > > translate > > > > > the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I see no > scope to > > > > > translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam wrote > the > > > > > following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional charts > here. I > > > > > am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in divisional > > > > > charts for the sage himself referred to the longitudinal > aspectual > > > > > evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting further > on > > > > > this controversial aspect I leave > > > > > it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this fully. " > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying - ''Aspects are > > > > > referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is just his > > > > > asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna Shadvargake - > > > pointing > > > > > to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all. > > > > > > > > > > I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars who were > > > trying > > > > > to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded notion > that > > > > > Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against the > > > > > fundamental definition from Parashara. > > > > > > > > > > Classical examples and explanations from elderly scholars of > > > > > yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas defintion.But > why > > > did > > > > > contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -Probably as > vargas > > > > > too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse they all > fall > > > > > within the Rashi chakra. > > > > > > > > > > But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -Demonstrating > his > > > > > greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic in > aspects > > > > > in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to the > > > > > longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter''. > > > > > Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an aspect can > happen. > > > > > > > > > > If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the manuscripts(yes > > > > > manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i had > > > > > mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a different > > > story. > > > > > > > > > > If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by Mahamuni > > > > > Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas interpreted > > > > > properly!! > > > > > > > > > > If you may note contemporary scholars were able to understand > > > these > > > > > in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka roots back > to > > > > > Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha roots back to > > > > > rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots back as per > them > > > > > in certain cases. > > > > > > > > > > In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi chakra > as > > > > > explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara. > > > > > > > > > > I have tried my level best within my limited intelligence and > > > leave > > > > > it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts. > > > > > > > > > > There is no disrespect at all towards any of the great souls > as > > > all > > > > > of us are in the same path. > > > > > > > > > > Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil - > > > > > > > > > > ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use an eraser > to > > > rub > > > > > out any mistakes. This means that correcting something we did > is > > > not > > > > > necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the road to > > > > > justice''. > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds and thanks for your patience > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release > Date: > > > 7/4/2007 1:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Dear Chandrashekhar and Ash, Thank you for your comments. Yes, I understand, this is a general trend only /strength of Fourth/12th/. Best wishes, Anna Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote: Dear Anna, That appears to be logical as 4th also represents motherland and the stronger is the house the less likelihood of the jataka remaining away from it. similarly 12th bhava is related to distant lands so weaker or more harmed that it is, more is the possibility of one leaving motherland to go abroad. However I would also take into consideration, influences on the said bhavas and not only the SAV bindus there. Take care, Chandrashekhar. 108ar wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar, Ash and all members, > I recently came across one opinion on foreign residence: that SAV > points in forth House and 12th House determine the length of stay in > foreign country- fourth stronger- temporary stay. I'd like to hear > more opinions on this interesting topic, including D24 chart. > Thanks > Anna > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > <vijayadas_pradeep%40>> wrote: > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > Rashi/Kshethra/Riksha/Bhavana are synonyms.Thus i would prefer to > take bhavas only from Rashi chakra.I have not seen any refrences bout > house but amshas always. > > I can find the shashtyamsha of every bhava lord-similar to what we > see with navamsha etc.It is not for any specific purpose like > marriage or children.Shubha shashtyamshas and dities have deeper > meaning.I feel you would agree that through Rashi chakra you can see > anything and everything of a Jataka. > > If you may note i have mentioned that,you can represnt ehe amshas as > we wish.How we interpret various relationships that a planet is > having on 12 rashis is that interests me.South inidans do both. > > Again if you note,i have clearly mentioned that you can see bhavat > bhavam and any 30 degree sector can be a lagna.Even if you draw them > a seperate charts,ther is no difference.I just said rashi chakra -did > not say only from natal lagna.Not only hora or Ghatika,you can take > from chandra/surya/arudha lagna navamsha,karakamsha lagna etc from > rashi chakra.on the other hand dispositions seen from amsha > arrangement does not fall in linw with basic definitions.They are > amsha-rashi links.Thus shri Santhanam had raised concern. > > I have given many references like paparkshe which clearly means > rashi,but you have different opinion.It is ok with me.Rashige is also > not acceptable.It is ok with me.Shri Rath has said amshaka has to be > seen from rashi - i have seen clear demonstrations and explanations > to students of the same.But yoo feel different.I have shown > references from BPHS that amshaka and amsha means the same.Neither > shri Rath any of the students here was caring.They were all > negelecting classical references.It is ok for me. > You may think and arrive at whatever conclusions you may like.If any > member reading this see any merit,i am thankful.If not,that is ok too. > > Respect > Pradeep > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > I think the way I read a classic is different from yours and that > could > > be due to the generation gap. I have not understood how a > Shashtyamsha > > of a graha can tell everything about a jataka, as advised by > Parashara, > > not the akshavedamsha. If one has to understand everything about a > > jataka one will have to analyze the bhavas and placement of bhava > lords. > > So if one has to understand everything about a jataka one will have > to > > look at the ShashtyaMsha chart or Akshavedamsha chart only. As to > the > > occupation of a graha of a krura or shubha shastyamsha is concerned > that > > refers to the bhava owned by that graha in the Rasi chart and that > has > > nothing to do with the shashtyamsha or akshavedaamsha chart. The > reason > > is easier to understand if we see that if a graha that is a malefic > > occupies the trishadaaya sthanas in the rasi chart it is said to > give > > good results so the results will not be bad for that sthana if the > said > > graha occupies a malefic Shashtyamsha. At the same time the bhava > owned > > by it could suffer as that would be a different rasi than the > > trishadaaya sthana occupied (unless the malefic is occupying own > rasi in > > such a sthana). > > > > By the way, I have seen too many south indian charts where Navamsha > > placement of grahas in a chart to accept that South Indians only > write > > navamshas just outside the rasi chakra, as mentioned by you. Even > Dr. > > Raman,s books do not show navamsha that way. > > > > As to rasi chakra being the only skeleton where rules like bhavas > etc. > > can be used, could you give your comments on Parashara advising to > draw > > Ghati, Bhava and Hora lagna chakra in the same manner as the rasi > > chakra? Do you think he was wrong? > > > > Karakamsha is most certainly not the Rasi in which a graha has > amsha. It > > is the Navamsha occupied, in a rasi, by a planet that has > traversed the > > most number of Amshas in any rasi. > > > > The reason for the Raj yoga is obvious, the only point of > difference > > amongst scholars is whether the Lagnamsha is to be seen in rasi > chakra > > or navamsha chakra and same for the karakamsha. I can not take > > Karakamsha to mean rasi, unfortunately. As far as I know the word > amsha > > without context is generally related to Navamsha or Dwadashaamsha. > I > > have never seen it being used to indicate rasi. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > As you have understood my views in the past as well,you know > > > that ''chart '' is opposed so that people do not take aspects and > > > other rules which are mentioned w.r to Rashis within Rashi chakra. > > > > > > I have mentioned in the past too that,you can either write on a > piece > > > of paper ,or you can draw as a seperate diagram Or you can mention > > > navamshas just outside the rashi chakra as south indians used to > > > do.Key is one should be able to place the derived amshas in > > > corresponding rashis. > > > > > > There are shlokas requesting us to see navamsha of a planet > falling > > > in the 7th bhava for spouse matters.Also one can see saptamsha of > a > > > planet falling in the 5th bhava for child matters.This explains > the > > > usage of particular vargas by relating them to bhavas in Rashi > chakra. > > > > > > On the other hand akshavedamsha and shastyamsha of a planet (not > > > shastyamsha chart) is not for a specific matter and can be used > for > > > assessing any purpose in general. > > > In BPHS for eg planets falling in Krura and Shubha shashtyamshas > are > > > mentioned for destruction or flourishment of yogas(In general for > all > > > purposes).If you look at this chapter ,you can find that only > amshas > > > are used. > > > > > > Rashi chakra is the only chart skeleton that is possible from > which > > > one can use the rules such as aspects and bhavas.This is so,as > they > > > are defined w.r to such dispositions.Pls see the concern raised by > > > Late santhanam. > > > On the other hand similar to bhavat bhavam,the refernce points can > > > change.Lagna can be any 30 degree sector.Chandra Lagna/Hora > > > Lagna/Arudha Lagna/Ghatika Lagna etc can be seen from the same > > > skeleton.Thus if we want we can draw them as seperate charts but > it > > > makes no difference. > > > > > > Similarly ,as discussed in our previous mails-Karakamsha is the > rashi > > > on to which Karaka graha is having amsha.Lagnamsha is the Rashi > on to > > > which Lagna is having Navamsha.Lagna shadvargake shloka is the > > > perfect example to understand this.Thus we have to see graha > > > placements and aspects on the said rashis to see Rajayoga. > > > > > > If you can recollect some shlokas which asks us to see the > strength > > > of the navamsha lord of graha -you may understand what i am > trying to > > > convey in a better fashion.The Rashi on to which a graha is having > > > navamsha, has got a role to play on the ability of the said > garaha in > > > delivering results.Thus if shubha grahas are aspecting or joining > > > such rashis -results will be good.Therefore if the Rashi on to > which > > > our natal lagna is having amsha(Lagnamsha) and our AK is having > amsha > > > (Swamsha or Karakamsha) is joined or aspected by Shubha grahas - > > > Rajayoga results. > > > > > > I would also be happy if shri Narasimha may join.I hope he takes > this > > > as a request. > > > > > > The other full shloka is > > > > > > Lagna shadvargake cha evam eka kheta yutekshithe > > > Rajayogo bhavatyeva nirvishankam dwijottama > > > > > > Now the gradation > > > Poorna drishte Poorna yogam ardha drishte ardhameva cha > > > Pada drishte padayogamiti jneyam kramat phalam > > > > > > Thus as shri Narasimha has said it is pointing to Graha drishti. > > > > > > On a personal note ,i have found recently in Varaha Mihira list or > > > so,your views on Vargas.This post made in 2002,is having identical > > > views to mine.I could find that you were strongly criticising the > > > misuse and misrepresentation of Varga charts.Thus i assume ,a > short > > > stint at SJC can be a reason for your leaning.But i am pretty sure > > > that you have your own views,very logical, and do not get swayed > so > > > easily.The way you interpret charts were always been good lessons > for > > > me. Thus my assumption may not be true.Still somewhere in my mind > i > > > feel your short stint has left some influence.If not kindly > pardon. > > > > > > Respect > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > You present an argument well, no doubt. It would have been > better > > > if you > > > > had quoted the " Lagne shadvargake " shloka that you refer to. > > > > > > > > I have only a small question. If there are no divisional charts > to > > > be > > > > drawn, as propounded by you or as you assume to be propounded by > > > > Parashara, where do you see the aspects or occupation of grahas? > > > > > > > > I would also like your comments on how to > > > interpret " AkshavedaaMshake > > > > caiva SaSTyaMshe.a khilamIkshayet " . How do you look at all the > > > results > > > > related to a jataka from Akshavedamsha and SaStyaMsha if no > charts > > > are > > > > to be drawn? There are many other shlokas like " KaarakaaMshe > shubhe > > > > vipra lagnaaMshe ca shubhagrahe. shubhasaMvIkshIte jaato raajaa > > > bhavati > > > > nishcitaH " and so on that talk about benefics occupying the > > > Karakamsha > > > > and Lagnamsha being aspected by benefics, which can not be > > > interpreted > > > > to mean that they refer to rasis unless of course one has an > over > > > > fertile imagination, that indicate that Parashara did talk about > > > > drishtis in navamsha charts for certain raj yogas that do not > talk > > > about > > > > varying strengths of drishtis. > > > > > > > > I would be obliged if you can get Narasimha's reactions on the > > > shloka > > > > quoted above. it would be interesting to see what he has to say. > > > > > > > > And by the way Parashara also advises to draw up charts for > Ghati > > > lagna, > > > > Bhava Lagna and Hora Lagna without any ambiguity at all. So the > > > theory > > > > being advanced, that no chart other than Rasi chart can be > drawn up > > > is > > > > not very correct, at least within the parameters of what > Parashara > > > said. > > > > The shloka that appears in BPHS, for record, is " kramaadeSaaM ca > > > > lagnaanaaM bhavakoSThaM prithak likhet. ye grahaa yatra me > tatra te > > > > sthaapyaa raashilagnavat " . > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Respected members > > > > > > > > > > I would like to recall the attention of members again to the > > > > > following mail from shri PVR Narasimha Rao - on Lagna > Shadvargake > > > > > Shloka.I request everyone to kindly read this with due > attention > > > > > and care as this may help us in solving most of our doubts. > > > > > > > > > > Shri Narasimha:----This verse means that if lagna in all the > six > > > > > divisions is occupied or aspected by the same planet, it > > > constitutes > > > > > a raja yoga. Based on the fullness of the aspect, the > strength of > > > > > the yoga is to be decided. One can argue that this is rasi > drishti > > > > > (which does not need houses), but the mention of full, half > and > > > > > quarter aspects makes it quite obvious that graha drishti > based on > > > > > houses is being referred to. In rasi drishti, there are no > grades > > > of > > > > > aspects. > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep: -Shri Narasimha Rao is absolutely right as Sage is > > > > > mentioning about Graha drishti.Shadvargas of Lagna will fall > on > > > > > different Rashis within Rashi chakra and Graha placements can > > > aspect > > > > > those Rashis.The moment you add words or thought which are not > > > > > mentioned in the shloka- Chaos results.Sage is talking about > > > Vargas > > > > > and who asked us to bring in ''Varga Charts'' is my doubt. > > > > > > > > > > Shri Narasimha:As a matter of fact, Sri Santhanam did not > > > translate > > > > > the verse any differently than I would. In fact, I see no > scope to > > > > > translate differently. Under his notes, Sri Santhanam wrote > the > > > > > following:Aspects are referred to in the divisional charts > here. I > > > > > am unable to fully conceive the logic in aspects in divisional > > > > > charts for the sage himself referred to the longitudinal > aspectual > > > > > evaluations in an earlier chapter. Without commenting further > on > > > > > this controversial aspect I leave > > > > > it at that, accepting my limitations to explain this fully. " > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep:Please see - Shri Santhanam is saying - ''Aspects are > > > > > referred to in the divisional charts here'' -which is just his > > > > > asuumption - Sage is only talking about Lagna Shadvargake - > > > pointing > > > > > to ShadVARGAS of Lagna - No chart at all. > > > > > > > > > > I had clearly mentioned yesterday that many scholars who were > > > trying > > > > > to interpret these shlokas, went with a preconcluded notion > that > > > > > Vargas are Full Charts.Which is not so and is against the > > > > > fundamental definition from Parashara. > > > > > > > > > > Classical examples and explanations from elderly scholars of > > > > > yesteryears(many years back) go by parasharas defintion.But > why > > > did > > > > > contemporary scholars have such an assumption? -Probably as > vargas > > > > > too were drwan inside Rashi skeletons!!.Yes ofcourse they all > fall > > > > > within the Rashi chakra. > > > > > > > > > > But you may see -Shri Santhanam honestly says -Demonstrating > his > > > > > greatness - ''I am unable to fully conceive the logic in > aspects > > > > > in divisional charts for the sage himself referred to the > > > > > longitudinal aspectual evaluations in an earlier chapter''. > > > > > Absolutely right - Sage has defined on where an aspect can > happen. > > > > > > > > > > If shri Santhanam had the fortune to see the manuscripts(yes > > > > > manuscripts in Thaliyola or leaf are present) which i had > > > > > mentioned,then translation of BPHS would had been a different > > > story. > > > > > > > > > > If we violate definiton of Vargas as mentioned by Mahamuni > > > > > Parashara - can we still expect to get the shlokas interpreted > > > > > properly!! > > > > > > > > > > If you may note contemporary scholars were able to understand > > > these > > > > > in certain case.Shri Rath understood that amshaka roots back > to > > > > > Rashis.Shri K.N.Raoji understood that Karakamsha roots back to > > > > > rashi.thus you see amsha as well as amshaka roots back as per > them > > > > > in certain cases. > > > > > > > > > > In Reality they all relate back and fall within Rashi chakra > as > > > > > explained by great grand fathers of Jyotish parampara. > > > > > > > > > > I have tried my level best within my limited intelligence and > > > leave > > > > > it at the discretion of jyotish enthusiasts. > > > > > > > > > > There is no disrespect at all towards any of the great souls > as > > > all > > > > > of us are in the same path. > > > > > > > > > > Let us analyze what Paulo coelho wrote about pencil - > > > > > > > > > > ''Third quality: the pencil always allows us to use an eraser > to > > > rub > > > > > out any mistakes. This means that correcting something we did > is > > > not > > > > > necessarily a bad thing; it helps to keep us on the road to > > > > > justice''. > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regds and thanks for your patience > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release > Date: > > > 7/4/2007 1:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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