Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 OM Datta Guru Dear Prafulla & Sushmita, Who are the people who are allowed to debate and pounce with authority, it should be those who are learned, by reading few books and spending few yrs one does not gain the knowledge we all would agree to it. I for one know that I do not know the science and hence try not to discuss methods, what we can do is share experiences. In one of my visit to KNRao last year, he gave me a googly re the Divisionals controversy. I reproduce it below here the two charts given by him, there could be slight error in the 2nd birth time as I am unable to read my own scribbling but what he said is both the individuals born in 2 different dates in 2 different cities have the same D1 chart. Usually astrologers discuss the issue of divisionals with respect to twins charts, here lets make life simpler by not putting charts of twins. I would never take this stance but lets do it if we are to understand what they are trying to say ' I challenge anyone who does not believe in divisionals the way KN Rao uses to predict for both charts. Infact I extend this challenge to anyone who wishes to take it. a) Their profession b) Number of children c) Did marriage happen in same month? d) How many children and their sex e) Wealth Those who know the answer to this by hearing it from KNRs mouth may not apply themselves. Still I will use few more Bullet Charts and some Tank Charts that I will present 9 for the 9 grahas and lets see prediction of those who know astrology. And these charts are a collection where the topmost writers in India have gone DRASTICALLY WRONG. 2 Charts Below Sunil John Mumbai KNR Divisional Example 1 Natal Chart October 12, 1955 Time: 10:55:00 Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 80 E 55' 00 " , 26 N 51' 00 " Lucknow City, India Altitude: 0.00 meters KNR Divisional Example 2 Natal Chart October 13, 1955 Time: 10:20:00 Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 75 E 51' 00 " , 30 N 54' 00 " Ludhiana, India Altitude: 0.00 meters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Dear Sunil John > Who are the people who are allowed to debate and pounce with authority, > it should be those who are learned, by reading few books and spending > few yrs one does not gain the knowledge we all would agree to it. I for > one know that I do not know the science and hence try not to discuss > methods, what we can do is share experiences. [Prafulla] Very well said. Long back in early astro days, my enthusiasm also suffered from lack of predictive skills. Reading theories / commentaries often led to contradictory opinions in cross references and seriously poor results - if applied verbatim. I recall the guidance received from Shri Ganapathy Sharma and Shri Vijay Nagrecha - from that old jyotish list in early 90's. They always insisted and encouraged to observe the readings from the dictum over the charts (before we can induct into our reading model). With Ganapathy, I had opportunity to submit lessons thread on System Astrology on the earlier jyotish list. and Shri Vijay nagrecha is brilliant applicant of the jyotish dictums through observational jyotish. Of course, with the time, both became friends. So crux is to build predictive skills, not the theories; and keep on rebuilding chart interpretation model through observational jyotish. But as you have expressed - either most of the jyotishi are busy in doing fixing jyotish - but fail miserably in predictive jyotish (Like I have gone through personally) for variety of reasons. many a times, for the fear factor (of failed prediction) - I used to avoid predictions. No matter, what are my skill sets - but most theorists fail to predict. One of the reason, traditionalist astrologers (well - I will not connect to parampara jyotish) with few decades of experience are always more reliable, than most internet jyotishi - becuase, they do not describe long theories / explanations (as packaged product) - but they deliver successful predicitons (through their well built interpretation model). Most parampara jyotishi work on few consistent clues / methods (not all mixed jyotish principles ever became part of any parampara) - which are like sure shots. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " Men who never get carried away should be. " ************************************************ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Hare Rama Krsna Dear Eminent Astrolgers How come nobody of you experienced and well read astrologers have been writing long mails, and none of you have replied two charts Mr Sunil John had posted for case study . It comes as rare shock for me who is an amateur student , as it has already been two days that he had posted this and nobody has even tried to read the chart. I have been seeing lengthy mails of shlokas,interpretations, crticism, personal remarks, but why not a case study ? Thanks and hoping some case studies are thrown in all these wonderful writings which are an asset to a silent reader like me. Pranam Swats Namah Shivaya On 7/8/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Sunil John > > > Who are the people who are allowed to debate and pounce with authority, > > it should be those who are learned, by reading few books and spending > > few yrs one does not gain the knowledge we all would agree to it. I for > > one know that I do not know the science and hence try not to discuss > > methods, what we can do is share experiences. > > [Prafulla] Very well said. Long back in early astro days, my enthusiasm > also suffered from lack of predictive skills. Reading theories / > commentaries often led to contradictory opinions in cross references and > seriously poor results - if applied verbatim. > > I recall the guidance received from Shri Ganapathy Sharma and Shri Vijay > Nagrecha - from that old jyotish list in early 90's. They always insisted > and encouraged to observe the readings from the dictum over the charts > (before we can induct into our reading model). With Ganapathy, I had > opportunity to submit lessons thread on System Astrology on the earlier > jyotish list. and Shri Vijay nagrecha is brilliant applicant of the jyotish > dictums through observational jyotish. Of course, with the time, both became > friends. > > So crux is to build predictive skills, not the theories; and keep on > rebuilding chart interpretation model through observational jyotish. But as > you have expressed - either most of the jyotishi are busy in doing fixing > jyotish - but fail miserably in predictive jyotish (Like I have gone through > personally) for variety of reasons. many a times, for the fear factor (of > failed prediction) - I used to avoid predictions. No matter, what are my > skill sets - but most theorists fail to predict. > > One of the reason, traditionalist astrologers (well - I will not connect > to parampara jyotish) with few decades of experience are always more > reliable, than most internet jyotishi - becuase, they do not describe long > theories / explanations (as packaged product) - but they deliver successful > predicitons (through their well built interpretation model). > > Most parampara jyotishi work on few consistent clues / methods (not all > mixed jyotish principles ever became part of any parampara) - which are like > sure shots. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > " Men who never get carried away should be. " > ************************************************ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Dear Swats, I have already done good number of Blind charts on certain Forums, but stopped subsequently due to various reasons,which we need not go into now. Regards to the present 2 charts, I have already communicated with Shri Sunil John, and communicated what I had to. In the meanwhile we have 2 options for the future to enjoy predictive astrology. a) Post martem- Let someone give us authentic verificable details of prominent personalities and their life stories and events with dates. Then let each give his own interpretations, as to why ,what happened when . That way we all get to learn new approaches and various styles of prognostications. b) Give us a authenic birth detail, which can be verified subsequently on 2-3 websites as rightly given (After the quiz is over), and ask us straight queries. for instance- 1) What do you think this person is capable of doing professionaly, can he be a singer,politician or a business tycoon ? OR 2) what is the financial position of this native? OR 3) What is the probable date of marriage of this native ? etc.etc. Such type of queries, would be most welcome. But the person posting this query should be very wise in putting the query, it should be straight, no ambiguty, and about prominent personalities alive or dead. I would not mind participating in these. And the members participating should not turn personal and respect each other while exchanging notes. regards, Bhaskar. , " healing spaces " <healingspaces wrote: > > Hare Rama Krsna > Dear Eminent Astrolgers > How come nobody of you experienced and well read astrologers have been > writing long mails, and none of you have replied two charts Mr Sunil John > had posted for case study . It comes as rare shock for me who is an amateur > student , as it has already been two days that he had posted this and nobody > has even tried to read the chart. I have been seeing lengthy mails of > shlokas,interpretations, crticism, personal remarks, but why not a case > study ? > Thanks and hoping some case studies are thrown in all these wonderful > writings which are an asset to a silent reader like me. > Pranam > Swats > Namah Shivaya On 7/8/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil John > > > > > Who are the people who are allowed to debate and pounce with authority, > > > it should be those who are learned, by reading few books and spending > > > few yrs one does not gain the knowledge we all would agree to it. I for > > > one know that I do not know the science and hence try not to discuss > > > methods, what we can do is share experiences. > > > > [Prafulla] Very well said. Long back in early astro days, my enthusiasm > > also suffered from lack of predictive skills. Reading theories / > > commentaries often led to contradictory opinions in cross references and > > seriously poor results - if applied verbatim. > > > > I recall the guidance received from Shri Ganapathy Sharma and Shri Vijay > > Nagrecha - from that old jyotish list in early 90's. They always insisted > > and encouraged to observe the readings from the dictum over the charts > > (before we can induct into our reading model). With Ganapathy, I had > > opportunity to submit lessons thread on System Astrology on the earlier > > jyotish list. and Shri Vijay nagrecha is brilliant applicant of the jyotish > > dictums through observational jyotish. Of course, with the time, both became > > friends. > > > > So crux is to build predictive skills, not the theories; and keep on > > rebuilding chart interpretation model through observational jyotish. But as > > you have expressed - either most of the jyotishi are busy in doing fixing > > jyotish - but fail miserably in predictive jyotish (Like I have gone through > > personally) for variety of reasons. many a times, for the fear factor (of > > failed prediction) - I used to avoid predictions. No matter, what are my > > skill sets - but most theorists fail to predict. > > > > One of the reason, traditionalist astrologers (well - I will not connect > > to parampara jyotish) with few decades of experience are always more > > reliable, than most internet jyotishi - becuase, they do not describe long > > theories / explanations (as packaged product) - but they deliver successful > > predicitons (through their well built interpretation model). > > > > Most parampara jyotishi work on few consistent clues / methods (not all > > mixed jyotish principles ever became part of any parampara) - which are like > > sure shots. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. " > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Dear Swati, Well correct issue. The onus is on Shri Pradeep to justify predictive rationale of his new interpretation - (contrary to the opinion of all the big names - Like BV Raman, CS Patel, Santhanam, KN Rao, VK Choudhry, Sanjay Rath etc). Please note that - all these experienced astrologers have proved their interpretation - through huge case studies. I am sure, an experienced astrologer like Shri Pradeep - will find time to read charts posted by Shri Sunil John and enlighten us. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net A little boost to the ego is undeniably exhilarating, but ask yourself if the initial excitement is worth the spiritual hangover. Remind yourself that real self-esteem is built on more substantial activities. In order to live free and happily - you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice. ************************************************ > > bhaskar_jyotish > Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:58:49 -0000 > > Re: Divisionals 2/ Challenge to anyone > > Dear Swats, > > I have already done good number of Blind charts > on certain Forums, but stopped subsequently due > to various reasons,which we need not go into now. > > Regards to the present 2 charts, I have already > communicated with Shri Sunil John, and > communicated what I had to. > > In the meanwhile we have 2 options for the future > to enjoy predictive astrology. > > a) Post martem- Let someone give us authentic > verificable details of prominent personalities > and their life stories and events with dates. > Then let each give his own interpretations, as > to why ,what happened when . That way we all get > to learn new approaches and various styles of > prognostications. > > b) Give us a authenic birth detail, which can > be verified subsequently on 2-3 websites as rightly > given (After the quiz is over), and ask us straight > queries. for instance- > 1) What do you think this person is capable of > doing professionaly, can he be a singer,politician > or a business tycoon ? OR > 2) what is the financial position of this native? OR > 3) What is the probable date of marriage of this native ? > > etc.etc. > > Such type of queries, would be most welcome. > But the person posting this query should be very > wise in putting the query, it should be straight, > no ambiguty, and about prominent personalities alive > or dead. > > I would not mind participating in these. And the > members participating should not turn personal > and respect each other while exchanging notes. > > regards, > Bhaskar. > > > , " healing spaces " > <healingspaces wrote: >> >> Hare Rama Krsna >> Dear Eminent Astrolgers >> How come nobody of you experienced and well read astrologers have been >> writing long mails, and none of you have replied two charts Mr Sunil > John >> had posted for case study . It comes as rare shock for me who is an > amateur >> student , as it has already been two days that he had posted this > and nobody >> has even tried to read the chart. I have been seeing lengthy mails of >> shlokas,interpretations, crticism, personal remarks, but why not a case >> study ? >> Thanks and hoping some case studies are thrown in all these wonderful >> writings which are an asset to a silent reader like me. >> Pranam >> Swats >> Namah Shivaya >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 7/8/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: >>> >>> Dear Sunil John >>> >>>> Who are the people who are allowed to debate and pounce with > authority, >>>> it should be those who are learned, by reading few books and > spending >>>> few yrs one does not gain the knowledge we all would agree to > it. I for >>>> one know that I do not know the science and hence try not to discuss >>>> methods, what we can do is share experiences. >>> >>> [Prafulla] Very well said. Long back in early astro days, my > enthusiasm >>> also suffered from lack of predictive skills. Reading theories / >>> commentaries often led to contradictory opinions in cross > references and >>> seriously poor results - if applied verbatim. >>> >>> I recall the guidance received from Shri Ganapathy Sharma and Shri > Vijay >>> Nagrecha - from that old jyotish list in early 90's. They always > insisted >>> and encouraged to observe the readings from the dictum over the charts >>> (before we can induct into our reading model). With Ganapathy, I had >>> opportunity to submit lessons thread on System Astrology on the > earlier >>> jyotish list. and Shri Vijay nagrecha is brilliant applicant of > the jyotish >>> dictums through observational jyotish. Of course, with the time, > both became >>> friends. >>> >>> So crux is to build predictive skills, not the theories; and keep on >>> rebuilding chart interpretation model through observational > jyotish. But as >>> you have expressed - either most of the jyotishi are busy in doing > fixing >>> jyotish - but fail miserably in predictive jyotish (Like I have > gone through >>> personally) for variety of reasons. many a times, for the fear > factor (of >>> failed prediction) - I used to avoid predictions. No matter, what > are my >>> skill sets - but most theorists fail to predict. >>> >>> One of the reason, traditionalist astrologers (well - I will not > connect >>> to parampara jyotish) with few decades of experience are always more >>> reliable, than most internet jyotishi - becuase, they do not > describe long >>> theories / explanations (as packaged product) - but they deliver > successful >>> predicitons (through their well built interpretation model). >>> >>> Most parampara jyotishi work on few consistent clues / methods > (not all >>> mixed jyotish principles ever became part of any parampara) - > which are like >>> sure shots. >>> >>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>> http://www.prafulla.net >>> >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. " >>> ************************************************ >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Dear Prafullaji and Bhaskarji, 1. The onus is on all astrolgers and not only on Pradeep ji. he may predict according to his point of view while others with their point of view. Research and methods have to be integrated and reaffirmed through different amsa charts or methods ( whether it be nadi, jamini, KP or KAS). What is the point of this forum of astrolgers if OUR ego comes in way of putting wrong predictions . We can only learn through mistakes and first of all by learning to take challenges. 2. Bhaskarji i know u do a lot of predictive astrology and lot of blind charts with many methods, thats why sometimes your language doesn't bother me ,( which it should ). I have always respected you for some of your writings and predictions. the day u leave some part of the language and don't get hassled and write more chart analysis and writings, it shall be great! As for famous people, charts we cant always be reliable. And lets take a commom selves from the streets. 3. Tarun, dear lets concentrate on few charts of unknowns. Than you shall get into getting readings and discussion may loose focus. 4. All others members and scholars should do some case studies. It is a great calling to start from two charts posted! 5. Once the predictive part is done these charts can be taken up for different interpretations of shlokas. Thanks Swati As for what i think of rashi chakra and navamsa chakra. EACH ONE IS AS REAL AS IT IS IMAGINARY. and each one is a WHOLE in itself and can only have a change of degree of focus. Nothing can ever be a part, as each part contains the whole information . What can only change is what comes easier to human eye to perceive it as actual or virtual( For some astrolgers only D-60 may be sufficient , but it is precision of birth time that is lacking). Anyways this will require some years for me to refine and put it in best fashion and apply in my work and thinking ! be it in design architecture or astrology.! Thanks Swats On 7/9/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Swati, > > Well correct issue. > > The onus is on Shri Pradeep to justify predictive rationale of his new > interpretation - (contrary to the opinion of all the big names - Like BV > Raman, CS Patel, Santhanam, KN Rao, VK Choudhry, Sanjay Rath etc). Please > note that - all these experienced astrologers have proved their > interpretation - through huge case studies. > > I am sure, an experienced astrologer like Shri Pradeep - will find time to > read charts posted by Shri Sunil John and enlighten us. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > A little boost to the ego is undeniably exhilarating, but ask yourself if > the initial excitement is worth the spiritual hangover. Remind yourself that > real self-esteem is built on more substantial activities. > > In order to live free and happily - you must sacrifice boredom. It is not > always an easy sacrifice. > ************************************************ > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish <bhaskar_jyotish%40.co.in> > > Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:58:49 -0000 > > <%40> > > Re: Divisionals 2/ Challenge to anyone > > > > Dear Swats, > > > > I have already done good number of Blind charts > > on certain Forums, but stopped subsequently due > > to various reasons,which we need not go into now. > > > > Regards to the present 2 charts, I have already > > communicated with Shri Sunil John, and > > communicated what I had to. > > > > In the meanwhile we have 2 options for the future > > to enjoy predictive astrology. > > > > a) Post martem- Let someone give us authentic > > verificable details of prominent personalities > > and their life stories and events with dates. > > Then let each give his own interpretations, as > > to why ,what happened when . That way we all get > > to learn new approaches and various styles of > > prognostications. > > > > b) Give us a authenic birth detail, which can > > be verified subsequently on 2-3 websites as rightly > > given (After the quiz is over), and ask us straight > > queries. for instance- > > 1) What do you think this person is capable of > > doing professionaly, can he be a singer,politician > > or a business tycoon ? OR > > 2) what is the financial position of this native? OR > > 3) What is the probable date of marriage of this native ? > > > > etc.etc. > > > > Such type of queries, would be most welcome. > > But the person posting this query should be very > > wise in putting the query, it should be straight, > > no ambiguty, and about prominent personalities alive > > or dead. > > > > I would not mind participating in these. And the > > members participating should not turn personal > > and respect each other while exchanging notes. > > > > regards, > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > <%40>, > " healing spaces " > > <healingspaces wrote: > >> > >> Hare Rama Krsna > >> Dear Eminent Astrolgers > >> How come nobody of you experienced and well read astrologers have been > >> writing long mails, and none of you have replied two charts Mr Sunil > > John > >> had posted for case study . It comes as rare shock for me who is an > > amateur > >> student , as it has already been two days that he had posted this > > and nobody > >> has even tried to read the chart. I have been seeing lengthy mails of > >> shlokas,interpretations, crticism, personal remarks, but why not a case > >> study ? > >> Thanks and hoping some case studies are thrown in all these wonderful > >> writings which are an asset to a silent reader like me. > >> Pranam > >> Swats > >> Namah Shivaya > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 7/8/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > >>> > >>> Dear Sunil John > >>> > >>>> Who are the people who are allowed to debate and pounce with > > authority, > >>>> it should be those who are learned, by reading few books and > > spending > >>>> few yrs one does not gain the knowledge we all would agree to > > it. I for > >>>> one know that I do not know the science and hence try not to discuss > >>>> methods, what we can do is share experiences. > >>> > >>> [Prafulla] Very well said. Long back in early astro days, my > > enthusiasm > >>> also suffered from lack of predictive skills. Reading theories / > >>> commentaries often led to contradictory opinions in cross > > references and > >>> seriously poor results - if applied verbatim. > >>> > >>> I recall the guidance received from Shri Ganapathy Sharma and Shri > > Vijay > >>> Nagrecha - from that old jyotish list in early 90's. They always > > insisted > >>> and encouraged to observe the readings from the dictum over the charts > >>> (before we can induct into our reading model). With Ganapathy, I had > >>> opportunity to submit lessons thread on System Astrology on the > > earlier > >>> jyotish list. and Shri Vijay nagrecha is brilliant applicant of > > the jyotish > >>> dictums through observational jyotish. Of course, with the time, > > both became > >>> friends. > >>> > >>> So crux is to build predictive skills, not the theories; and keep on > >>> rebuilding chart interpretation model through observational > > jyotish. But as > >>> you have expressed - either most of the jyotishi are busy in doing > > fixing > >>> jyotish - but fail miserably in predictive jyotish (Like I have > > gone through > >>> personally) for variety of reasons. many a times, for the fear > > factor (of > >>> failed prediction) - I used to avoid predictions. No matter, what > > are my > >>> skill sets - but most theorists fail to predict. > >>> > >>> One of the reason, traditionalist astrologers (well - I will not > > connect > >>> to parampara jyotish) with few decades of experience are always more > >>> reliable, than most internet jyotishi - becuase, they do not > > describe long > >>> theories / explanations (as packaged product) - but they deliver > > successful > >>> predicitons (through their well built interpretation model). > >>> > >>> Most parampara jyotishi work on few consistent clues / methods > > (not all > >>> mixed jyotish principles ever became part of any parampara) - > > which are like > >>> sure shots. > >>> > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > >>> > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. " > >>> ************************************************ > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Dear Swati, No - let us understand the facts: Pradeep is submitting another perspective on varga charts (contrary to shri Kn Rao, Shri Bv Raman, Shri Sanjay Rath, Shri Vk Choudhry, Shri CS patel, Shri Santhanam etc). What I / most members have requested him to produce case studies to prove its application. What we are talking need not be proved, as they are evidently available in the books and reading models of all these above name astrologers. The onus will always be on the astrologers - who are putting new interpretations. Let me give you another examples - KAS, SA, Kp etc were produced (or reproduced) with the case studies. They did not ask other astrologers to disapprove their points. Likewise, if KN rao has produced the interpretation model of D charts, then he did produce the application in case studies. It can never be other way around. So let Shri Pradeep produce his predictive model. He has mentioned on another thread that, he predicts with that. So let Sunil John or other's case charts be a challenge for him to put forth his interpretation model. and I am sure, we will all benefit. regards / Prafulla , " healing spaces " <healingspaces wrote: > > Dear Prafullaji and Bhaskarji, > 1. The onus is on all astrolgers and not only on Pradeep ji. he may predict > according to his point of view while others with their point of view. > Research and methods have to be integrated and reaffirmed through different > amsa charts or methods ( whether it be nadi, jamini, KP or KAS). What is the > point of this forum of astrolgers if OUR ego comes in way of putting wrong > predictions . We can only learn through mistakes and first of all by > learning to take challenges. > 2. Bhaskarji i know u do a lot of predictive astrology and lot of blind > charts with many methods, thats why sometimes your language doesn't bother > me ,( which it should ). I have always respected you for some of your > writings and predictions. the day u leave some part of the language and > don't get hassled and write more chart analysis and writings, it shall be > great! > As for famous people, charts we cant always be reliable. And lets take a > commom selves from the streets. > 3. Tarun, dear lets concentrate on few charts of unknowns. Than you shall > get into getting readings and discussion may loose focus. > 4. All others members and scholars should do some case studies. It is a > great calling to start from two charts posted! > 5. Once the predictive part is done these charts can be taken up for > different interpretations of shlokas. > Thanks > Swati > As for what i think of rashi chakra and navamsa chakra. EACH ONE IS AS REAL > AS IT IS IMAGINARY. > and each one is a WHOLE in itself and can only have a change of degree of > focus. Nothing can ever be a part, as each part contains the whole > information . What can only change is what comes easier to human eye to > perceive it as actual or virtual( For some astrolgers only D-60 may be > sufficient , but it is precision of birth time that is lacking). Anyways > this will require some years for me to refine and put it in best fashion and > apply in my work and thinking ! be it in design architecture or astrology.! > Thanks > Swats > > > > On 7/9/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > > > Dear Swati, > > > > Well correct issue. > > > > The onus is on Shri Pradeep to justify predictive rationale of his new > > interpretation - (contrary to the opinion of all the big names - Like BV > > Raman, CS Patel, Santhanam, KN Rao, VK Choudhry, Sanjay Rath etc). Please > > note that - all these experienced astrologers have proved their > > interpretation - through huge case studies. > > > > I am sure, an experienced astrologer like Shri Pradeep - will find time to > > read charts posted by Shri Sunil John and enlighten us. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > A little boost to the ego is undeniably exhilarating, but ask yourself if > > the initial excitement is worth the spiritual hangover. Remind yourself that > > real self-esteem is built on more substantial activities. > > > > In order to live free and happily - you must sacrifice boredom. It is not > > always an easy sacrifice. > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish <bhaskar_jyotish%40.co.in> > > > Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:58:49 -0000 > > > <%40> > > > Re: Divisionals 2/ Challenge to anyone > > > > > > Dear Swats, > > > > > > I have already done good number of Blind charts > > > on certain Forums, but stopped subsequently due > > > to various reasons,which we need not go into now. > > > > > > Regards to the present 2 charts, I have already > > > communicated with Shri Sunil John, and > > > communicated what I had to. > > > > > > In the meanwhile we have 2 options for the future > > > to enjoy predictive astrology. > > > > > > a) Post martem- Let someone give us authentic > > > verificable details of prominent personalities > > > and their life stories and events with dates. > > > Then let each give his own interpretations, as > > > to why ,what happened when . That way we all get > > > to learn new approaches and various styles of > > > prognostications. > > > > > > b) Give us a authenic birth detail, which can > > > be verified subsequently on 2-3 websites as rightly > > > given (After the quiz is over), and ask us straight > > > queries. for instance- > > > 1) What do you think this person is capable of > > > doing professionaly, can he be a singer,politician > > > or a business tycoon ? OR > > > 2) what is the financial position of this native? OR > > > 3) What is the probable date of marriage of this native ? > > > > > > etc.etc. > > > > > > Such type of queries, would be most welcome. > > > But the person posting this query should be very > > > wise in putting the query, it should be straight, > > > no ambiguty, and about prominent personalities alive > > > or dead. > > > > > > I would not mind participating in these. And the > > > members participating should not turn personal > > > and respect each other while exchanging notes. > > > > > > regards, > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > " healing spaces " > > > <healingspaces@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hare Rama Krsna > > >> Dear Eminent Astrolgers > > >> How come nobody of you experienced and well read astrologers have been > > >> writing long mails, and none of you have replied two charts Mr Sunil > > > John > > >> had posted for case study . It comes as rare shock for me who is an > > > amateur > > >> student , as it has already been two days that he had posted this > > > and nobody > > >> has even tried to read the chart. I have been seeing lengthy mails of > > >> shlokas,interpretations, crticism, personal remarks, but why not a case > > >> study ? > > >> Thanks and hoping some case studies are thrown in all these wonderful > > >> writings which are an asset to a silent reader like me. > > >> Pranam > > >> Swats > > >> Namah Shivaya > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 7/8/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Dear Sunil John > > >>> > > >>>> Who are the people who are allowed to debate and pounce with > > > authority, > > >>>> it should be those who are learned, by reading few books and > > > spending > > >>>> few yrs one does not gain the knowledge we all would agree to > > > it. I for > > >>>> one know that I do not know the science and hence try not to discuss > > >>>> methods, what we can do is share experiences. > > >>> > > >>> [Prafulla] Very well said. Long back in early astro days, my > > > enthusiasm > > >>> also suffered from lack of predictive skills. Reading theories / > > >>> commentaries often led to contradictory opinions in cross > > > references and > > >>> seriously poor results - if applied verbatim. > > >>> > > >>> I recall the guidance received from Shri Ganapathy Sharma and Shri > > > Vijay > > >>> Nagrecha - from that old jyotish list in early 90's. They always > > > insisted > > >>> and encouraged to observe the readings from the dictum over the charts > > >>> (before we can induct into our reading model). With Ganapathy, I had > > >>> opportunity to submit lessons thread on System Astrology on the > > > earlier > > >>> jyotish list. and Shri Vijay nagrecha is brilliant applicant of > > > the jyotish > > >>> dictums through observational jyotish. Of course, with the time, > > > both became > > >>> friends. > > >>> > > >>> So crux is to build predictive skills, not the theories; and keep on > > >>> rebuilding chart interpretation model through observational > > > jyotish. But as > > >>> you have expressed - either most of the jyotishi are busy in doing > > > fixing > > >>> jyotish - but fail miserably in predictive jyotish (Like I have > > > gone through > > >>> personally) for variety of reasons. many a times, for the fear > > > factor (of > > >>> failed prediction) - I used to avoid predictions. No matter, what > > > are my > > >>> skill sets - but most theorists fail to predict. > > >>> > > >>> One of the reason, traditionalist astrologers (well - I will not > > > connect > > >>> to parampara jyotish) with few decades of experience are always more > > >>> reliable, than most internet jyotishi - becuase, they do not > > > describe long > > >>> theories / explanations (as packaged product) - but they deliver > > > successful > > >>> predicitons (through their well built interpretation model). > > >>> > > >>> Most parampara jyotishi work on few consistent clues / methods > > > (not all > > >>> mixed jyotish principles ever became part of any parampara) - > > > which are like > > >>> sure shots. > > >>> > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > >>> > > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. " > > >>> ************************************************ > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Dear Prafulla ji What Swati perhaps has indicated is that any theory can either be proved if correct or disproved if totally incorrect. In either case the case study is the only method. Contradiction in the theory can also be found and indicated by applying the theory and finding it not coming true in appropriately selected case study. The onus therefore is also on the ones who do not agree to one theory or viewpoint. Thanka and regards Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: Dear Swati, No - let us understand the facts: Pradeep is submitting another perspective on varga charts (contrary to shri Kn Rao, Shri Bv Raman, Shri Sanjay Rath, Shri Vk Choudhry, Shri CS patel, Shri Santhanam etc). What I / most members have requested him to produce case studies to prove its application. What we are talking need not be proved, as they are evidently available in the books and reading models of all these above name astrologers. The onus will always be on the astrologers - who are putting new interpretations. Let me give you another examples - KAS, SA, Kp etc were produced (or reproduced) with the case studies. They did not ask other astrologers to disapprove their points. Likewise, if KN rao has produced the interpretation model of D charts, then he did produce the application in case studies. It can never be other way around. So let Shri Pradeep produce his predictive model. He has mentioned on another thread that, he predicts with that. So let Sunil John or other's case charts be a challenge for him to put forth his interpretation model. and I am sure, we will all benefit. regards / Prafulla , " healing spaces " <healingspaces wrote: > > Dear Prafullaji and Bhaskarji, > 1. The onus is on all astrolgers and not only on Pradeep ji. he may predict > according to his point of view while others with their point of view. > Research and methods have to be integrated and reaffirmed through different > amsa charts or methods ( whether it be nadi, jamini, KP or KAS). What is the > point of this forum of astrolgers if OUR ego comes in way of putting wrong > predictions . We can only learn through mistakes and first of all by > learning to take challenges. > 2. Bhaskarji i know u do a lot of predictive astrology and lot of blind > charts with many methods, thats why sometimes your language doesn't bother > me ,( which it should ). I have always respected you for some of your > writings and predictions. the day u leave some part of the language and > don't get hassled and write more chart analysis and writings, it shall be > great! > As for famous people, charts we cant always be reliable. And lets take a > commom selves from the streets. > 3. Tarun, dear lets concentrate on few charts of unknowns. Than you shall > get into getting readings and discussion may loose focus. > 4. All others members and scholars should do some case studies. It is a > great calling to start from two charts posted! > 5. Once the predictive part is done these charts can be taken up for > different interpretations of shlokas. > Thanks > Swati > As for what i think of rashi chakra and navamsa chakra. EACH ONE IS AS REAL > AS IT IS IMAGINARY. > and each one is a WHOLE in itself and can only have a change of degree of > focus. Nothing can ever be a part, as each part contains the whole > information . What can only change is what comes easier to human eye to > perceive it as actual or virtual( For some astrolgers only D-60 may be > sufficient , but it is precision of birth time that is lacking). Anyways > this will require some years for me to refine and put it in best fashion and > apply in my work and thinking ! be it in design architecture or astrology.! > Thanks > Swats > > > > On 7/9/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > > > Dear Swati, > > > > Well correct issue. > > > > The onus is on Shri Pradeep to justify predictive rationale of his new > > interpretation - (contrary to the opinion of all the big names - Like BV > > Raman, CS Patel, Santhanam, KN Rao, VK Choudhry, Sanjay Rath etc). Please > > note that - all these experienced astrologers have proved their > > interpretation - through huge case studies. > > > > I am sure, an experienced astrologer like Shri Pradeep - will find time to > > read charts posted by Shri Sunil John and enlighten us. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > A little boost to the ego is undeniably exhilarating, but ask yourself if > > the initial excitement is worth the spiritual hangover. Remind yourself that > > real self-esteem is built on more substantial activities. > > > > In order to live free and happily - you must sacrifice boredom. It is not > > always an easy sacrifice. > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish <bhaskar_jyotish%40.co.in> > > > Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:58:49 -0000 > > > <%40> > > > Re: Divisionals 2/ Challenge to anyone > > > > > > Dear Swats, > > > > > > I have already done good number of Blind charts > > > on certain Forums, but stopped subsequently due > > > to various reasons,which we need not go into now. > > > > > > Regards to the present 2 charts, I have already > > > communicated with Shri Sunil John, and > > > communicated what I had to. > > > > > > In the meanwhile we have 2 options for the future > > > to enjoy predictive astrology. > > > > > > a) Post martem- Let someone give us authentic > > > verificable details of prominent personalities > > > and their life stories and events with dates. > > > Then let each give his own interpretations, as > > > to why ,what happened when . That way we all get > > > to learn new approaches and various styles of > > > prognostications. > > > > > > b) Give us a authenic birth detail, which can > > > be verified subsequently on 2-3 websites as rightly > > > given (After the quiz is over), and ask us straight > > > queries. for instance- > > > 1) What do you think this person is capable of > > > doing professionaly, can he be a singer,politician > > > or a business tycoon ? OR > > > 2) what is the financial position of this native? OR > > > 3) What is the probable date of marriage of this native ? > > > > > > etc.etc. > > > > > > Such type of queries, would be most welcome. > > > But the person posting this query should be very > > > wise in putting the query, it should be straight, > > > no ambiguty, and about prominent personalities alive > > > or dead. > > > > > > I would not mind participating in these. And the > > > members participating should not turn personal > > > and respect each other while exchanging notes. > > > > > > regards, > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > " healing spaces " > > > <healingspaces@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hare Rama Krsna > > >> Dear Eminent Astrolgers > > >> How come nobody of you experienced and well read astrologers have been > > >> writing long mails, and none of you have replied two charts Mr Sunil > > > John > > >> had posted for case study . It comes as rare shock for me who is an > > > amateur > > >> student , as it has already been two days that he had posted this > > > and nobody > > >> has even tried to read the chart. I have been seeing lengthy mails of > > >> shlokas,interpretations, crticism, personal remarks, but why not a case > > >> study ? > > >> Thanks and hoping some case studies are thrown in all these wonderful > > >> writings which are an asset to a silent reader like me. > > >> Pranam > > >> Swats > > >> Namah Shivaya > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 7/8/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Dear Sunil John > > >>> > > >>>> Who are the people who are allowed to debate and pounce with > > > authority, > > >>>> it should be those who are learned, by reading few books and > > > spending > > >>>> few yrs one does not gain the knowledge we all would agree to > > > it. I for > > >>>> one know that I do not know the science and hence try not to discuss > > >>>> methods, what we can do is share experiences. > > >>> > > >>> [Prafulla] Very well said. Long back in early astro days, my > > > enthusiasm > > >>> also suffered from lack of predictive skills. Reading theories / > > >>> commentaries often led to contradictory opinions in cross > > > references and > > >>> seriously poor results - if applied verbatim. > > >>> > > >>> I recall the guidance received from Shri Ganapathy Sharma and Shri > > > Vijay > > >>> Nagrecha - from that old jyotish list in early 90's. They always > > > insisted > > >>> and encouraged to observe the readings from the dictum over the charts > > >>> (before we can induct into our reading model). With Ganapathy, I had > > >>> opportunity to submit lessons thread on System Astrology on the > > > earlier > > >>> jyotish list. and Shri Vijay nagrecha is brilliant applicant of > > > the jyotish > > >>> dictums through observational jyotish. Of course, with the time, > > > both became > > >>> friends. > > >>> > > >>> So crux is to build predictive skills, not the theories; and keep on > > >>> rebuilding chart interpretation model through observational > > > jyotish. But as > > >>> you have expressed - either most of the jyotishi are busy in doing > > > fixing > > >>> jyotish - but fail miserably in predictive jyotish (Like I have > > > gone through > > >>> personally) for variety of reasons. many a times, for the fear > > > factor (of > > >>> failed prediction) - I used to avoid predictions. No matter, what > > > are my > > >>> skill sets - but most theorists fail to predict. > > >>> > > >>> One of the reason, traditionalist astrologers (well - I will not > > > connect > > >>> to parampara jyotish) with few decades of experience are always more > > >>> reliable, than most internet jyotishi - becuase, they do not > > > describe long > > >>> theories / explanations (as packaged product) - but they deliver > > > successful > > >>> predicitons (through their well built interpretation model). > > >>> > > >>> Most parampara jyotishi work on few consistent clues / methods > > > (not all > > >>> mixed jyotish principles ever became part of any parampara) - > > > which are like > > >>> sure shots. > > >>> > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > >>> > > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. " > > >>> ************************************************ > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Dear Shri Dwivedi ji Until now - most jyotish scholars have demonstrated that: a. The Navamsa chart and other D chart exists b. The D charts can be interpreted like we do Rasi Chart c. The yogas, aspects, transits etc can be referred from Navamsa chart Shri Pradeep ji has contested all above three (contrary to the views of Shri KN Rao, Shri Sanjay rath, Shri Santhanam, Shri CS Patel, Shri BV Raman etc) - so that is why I feel onus is on him to prove that they have committed blunder. As you rightly said - this can be done only through case studies. Hope this clarifies the need for Shri Pradeep to prove - not all. regards / Prafulla , Krishna Chandra Dwivedi <kcdd8 wrote: > > Dear Prafulla ji > > What Swati perhaps has indicated is that any theory can either be proved if correct or disproved if totally incorrect. In either case the case study is the only method. Contradiction in the theory can also be found and indicated by applying the theory and finding it not coming true in appropriately selected case study. > > The onus therefore is also on the ones who do not agree to one theory or viewpoint. > > Thanka and regards > > Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Swati, > > No - let us understand the facts: > > Pradeep is submitting another perspective on varga charts (contrary to > shri Kn Rao, Shri Bv Raman, Shri Sanjay Rath, Shri Vk Choudhry, Shri > CS patel, Shri Santhanam etc). What I / most members have requested > him to produce case studies to prove its application. What we are > talking need not be proved, as they are evidently available in the > books and reading models of all these above name astrologers. > > The onus will always be on the astrologers - who are putting new > interpretations. > > Let me give you another examples - KAS, SA, Kp etc were produced (or > reproduced) with the case studies. They did not ask other astrologers > to disapprove their points. Likewise, if KN rao has produced the > interpretation model of D charts, then he did produce the application > in case studies. It can never be other way around. > > So let Shri Pradeep produce his predictive model. He has mentioned on > another thread that, he predicts with that. So let Sunil John or > other's case charts be a challenge for him to put forth his > interpretation model. and I am sure, we will all benefit. > > regards / Prafulla > > , " healing spaces " > <healingspaces@> wrote: > > > > Dear Prafullaji and Bhaskarji, > > 1. The onus is on all astrolgers and not only on Pradeep ji. he may > predict > > according to his point of view while others with their point of view. > > Research and methods have to be integrated and reaffirmed through > different > > amsa charts or methods ( whether it be nadi, jamini, KP or KAS). > What is the > > point of this forum of astrolgers if OUR ego comes in way of putting > wrong > > predictions . We can only learn through mistakes and first of all by > > learning to take challenges. > > 2. Bhaskarji i know u do a lot of predictive astrology and lot of blind > > charts with many methods, thats why sometimes your language doesn't > bother > > me ,( which it should ). I have always respected you for some of your > > writings and predictions. the day u leave some part of the language and > > don't get hassled and write more chart analysis and writings, it > shall be > > great! > > As for famous people, charts we cant always be reliable. And lets take a > > commom selves from the streets. > > 3. Tarun, dear lets concentrate on few charts of unknowns. Than you > shall > > get into getting readings and discussion may loose focus. > > 4. All others members and scholars should do some case studies. It is a > > great calling to start from two charts posted! > > 5. Once the predictive part is done these charts can be taken up for > > different interpretations of shlokas. > > Thanks > > Swati > > As for what i think of rashi chakra and navamsa chakra. EACH ONE IS > AS REAL > > AS IT IS IMAGINARY. > > and each one is a WHOLE in itself and can only have a change of > degree of > > focus. Nothing can ever be a part, as each part contains the whole > > information . What can only change is what comes easier to human eye to > > perceive it as actual or virtual( For some astrolgers only D-60 may be > > sufficient , but it is precision of birth time that is lacking). Anyways > > this will require some years for me to refine and put it in best > fashion and > > apply in my work and thinking ! be it in design architecture or > astrology.! > > Thanks > > Swats > > > > > > > > On 7/9/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Swati, > > > > > > Well correct issue. > > > > > > The onus is on Shri Pradeep to justify predictive rationale of his new > > > interpretation - (contrary to the opinion of all the big names - > Like BV > > > Raman, CS Patel, Santhanam, KN Rao, VK Choudhry, Sanjay Rath etc). > Please > > > note that - all these experienced astrologers have proved their > > > interpretation - through huge case studies. > > > > > > I am sure, an experienced astrologer like Shri Pradeep - will find > time to > > > read charts posted by Shri Sunil John and enlighten us. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > A little boost to the ego is undeniably exhilarating, but ask > yourself if > > > the initial excitement is worth the spiritual hangover. Remind > yourself that > > > real self-esteem is built on more substantial activities. > > > > > > In order to live free and happily - you must sacrifice boredom. It > is not > > > always an easy sacrifice. > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ <bhaskar_jyotish%40.co.in> > > > > Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:58:49 -0000 > > > > <%40> > > > > Re: Divisionals 2/ Challenge to anyone > > > > > > > > Dear Swats, > > > > > > > > I have already done good number of Blind charts > > > > on certain Forums, but stopped subsequently due > > > > to various reasons,which we need not go into now. > > > > > > > > Regards to the present 2 charts, I have already > > > > communicated with Shri Sunil John, and > > > > communicated what I had to. > > > > > > > > In the meanwhile we have 2 options for the future > > > > to enjoy predictive astrology. > > > > > > > > a) Post martem- Let someone give us authentic > > > > verificable details of prominent personalities > > > > and their life stories and events with dates. > > > > Then let each give his own interpretations, as > > > > to why ,what happened when . That way we all get > > > > to learn new approaches and various styles of > > > > prognostications. > > > > > > > > b) Give us a authenic birth detail, which can > > > > be verified subsequently on 2-3 websites as rightly > > > > given (After the quiz is over), and ask us straight > > > > queries. for instance- > > > > 1) What do you think this person is capable of > > > > doing professionaly, can he be a singer,politician > > > > or a business tycoon ? OR > > > > 2) what is the financial position of this native? OR > > > > 3) What is the probable date of marriage of this native ? > > > > > > > > etc.etc. > > > > > > > > Such type of queries, would be most welcome. > > > > But the person posting this query should be very > > > > wise in putting the query, it should be straight, > > > > no ambiguty, and about prominent personalities alive > > > > or dead. > > > > > > > > I would not mind participating in these. And the > > > > members participating should not turn personal > > > > and respect each other while exchanging notes. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > " healing spaces " > > > > <healingspaces@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Hare Rama Krsna > > > >> Dear Eminent Astrolgers > > > >> How come nobody of you experienced and well read astrologers > have been > > > >> writing long mails, and none of you have replied two charts Mr > Sunil > > > > John > > > >> had posted for case study . It comes as rare shock for me who is an > > > > amateur > > > >> student , as it has already been two days that he had posted this > > > > and nobody > > > >> has even tried to read the chart. I have been seeing lengthy > mails of > > > >> shlokas,interpretations, crticism, personal remarks, but why > not a case > > > >> study ? > > > >> Thanks and hoping some case studies are thrown in all these > wonderful > > > >> writings which are an asset to a silent reader like me. > > > >> Pranam > > > >> Swats > > > >> Namah Shivaya > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 7/8/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Dear Sunil John > > > >>> > > > >>>> Who are the people who are allowed to debate and pounce with > > > > authority, > > > >>>> it should be those who are learned, by reading few books and > > > > spending > > > >>>> few yrs one does not gain the knowledge we all would agree to > > > > it. I for > > > >>>> one know that I do not know the science and hence try not to > discuss > > > >>>> methods, what we can do is share experiences. > > > >>> > > > >>> [Prafulla] Very well said. Long back in early astro days, my > > > > enthusiasm > > > >>> also suffered from lack of predictive skills. Reading theories / > > > >>> commentaries often led to contradictory opinions in cross > > > > references and > > > >>> seriously poor results - if applied verbatim. > > > >>> > > > >>> I recall the guidance received from Shri Ganapathy Sharma and Shri > > > > Vijay > > > >>> Nagrecha - from that old jyotish list in early 90's. They always > > > > insisted > > > >>> and encouraged to observe the readings from the dictum over > the charts > > > >>> (before we can induct into our reading model). With Ganapathy, > I had > > > >>> opportunity to submit lessons thread on System Astrology on the > > > > earlier > > > >>> jyotish list. and Shri Vijay nagrecha is brilliant applicant of > > > > the jyotish > > > >>> dictums through observational jyotish. Of course, with the time, > > > > both became > > > >>> friends. > > > >>> > > > >>> So crux is to build predictive skills, not the theories; and > keep on > > > >>> rebuilding chart interpretation model through observational > > > > jyotish. But as > > > >>> you have expressed - either most of the jyotishi are busy in doing > > > > fixing > > > >>> jyotish - but fail miserably in predictive jyotish (Like I have > > > > gone through > > > >>> personally) for variety of reasons. many a times, for the fear > > > > factor (of > > > >>> failed prediction) - I used to avoid predictions. No matter, what > > > > are my > > > >>> skill sets - but most theorists fail to predict. > > > >>> > > > >>> One of the reason, traditionalist astrologers (well - I will not > > > > connect > > > >>> to parampara jyotish) with few decades of experience are > always more > > > >>> reliable, than most internet jyotishi - becuase, they do not > > > > describe long > > > >>> theories / explanations (as packaged product) - but they deliver > > > > successful > > > >>> predicitons (through their well built interpretation model). > > > >>> > > > >>> Most parampara jyotishi work on few consistent clues / methods > > > > (not all > > > >>> mixed jyotish principles ever became part of any parampara) - > > > > which are like > > > >>> sure shots. > > > >>> > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > >>> > > > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. " > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Namaste Sunil Let me be the first one to attempt the same. Coming from Sri K N Rao itself, it is an honor to attempt these charts. I do not care if I am 100% wrong as it would a nice learning experience. As you are aware, I have not met Sri K N Rao ever, so do not know about this puzzle or its answers. a) Their profession Chart 1 (Lucknow Born): Surya Related with effect of Mars: Administrative Services, Government Related work with Agricultural Income too, Can be a Tax Auditor in Government, Politician. He can be a high ranking Military Officer. I am more interested in checking if I got the ruling graha right for Profession. Chart 2 (Ludhiana Born): Mars-Mercury related work. In Engineering field, or Engineering Trade, Industry b) Number of children d) How many children and their sex > Joining similar questions together here: Chart 1: 4 children 1. Boy, 2. Girl (would have been saved through prayers), 3. Girl 4. Boy Chart 2: 2 Children 1. Child aborted or misscarriage (unless remedies performed) 2. Girl 3. Girl Looks like 2 are surviving unless prayers were performed. e) Wealth Chart 1: Abundance of Wealth. A lot of wealth coming from one's own efforts. Chart 2: Moderate wealth and income: Enough to support but not abundant. c) Did marriage happen in same month? I am not quite sure what is being asked in this question. I have used Sri Iyer's method in the above. Any mistakes in analysis are my responsibility and not Sri Iyer's. I hope these charts are discussed more and we get to know the answers too. Thanks and Regards Bharat c) Did marriage happen in same month? > > e) Wealth > > > KNR Divisional Example 1 > > Natal Chart > > October 12, 1955 > Time: 10:55:00 > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) > Place: 80 E 55' 00 " , 26 N 51' 00 " > Lucknow City, India > Altitude: 0.00 meters > > KNR Divisional Example 2 > > Natal Chart > > October 13, 1955 > Time: 10:20:00 > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) > Place: 75 E 51' 00 " , 30 N 54' 00 " > Ludhiana, India > Altitude: 0.00 meters > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Hello, The point can never be proven with quizzes, or known events. The people who have propogated D-charts, and numerous parameters, the latest is Annual Thithi pravesh, with D- charts. Rest assured that any event can be justified in ANY chart. Just look at in from probabilty satndpoint. If you look at a chart from Lagna, Arudh Lagna, Karaka lagna, Moon lagna, Sun lagna, Now do the same in a D- chart, Every planet will be capable of giving a result. Finn Wandl who used to be on this list, a practicing astrologer, had it right. He said he gets confused with so many parameters that he can never predict. So he uses time tested parameters, which are Main rashi chart, get strengths through amshas, use of rashi-tulya navansha, etc. One can never be a good predictor if one can not predict from rashi chart alone and a few supporting parameters( Key worsd is FEw not 100s) and vimshottari dasha ( use of laghu parashari is a must). The person who proposed system's approach has simplified it greatly. He uses 11th lord as most benefic( A slap in the face of laghu parashari). I doubt KN Rao uses all these D-chart to arrive at the main gist of the chart. Only he can answer this question, not his books. The point is not quizzes, but predictions. In a quiz there are a few possibilities and if 10 people participate 1 of them will be right, and if used annual TP in D-10 and used D-60 to tell about past life he becomes king of the hill. So the proof is in predicting an event which has not a obvious or statistically overwhelming support or conventional wisdom. I had, on this list last year predicted that Federer will win US open( I did not know federer's chart and I did not have to) This is quite obvious and anyone who follows a sport can resonably predict these things. So a prediction should be on something which is difficult for people who do not know astrology to predict. anyway. Satish --- Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: ______________________________\ ____ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Auto Green Center. http://autos./green_center/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 The answer of a quiz is known only to the initiator, and the quiz in question had no options : it was not a multiple choice set up and no hints at all were given. The nature of the event was such that it could not have been guessed. Hence anyone that is successful in answering would be in actuality making a prediction on a blind chart, not justifying a known event. So a successful attempt at a blind quiz with no hints/options = prediction. The methodology remains technically the same. I agree that too many parameters can be confusing, but what is the complexity in applying the same set of parameters (placements, aspects, lordships, significations, bhavta bhavam)to divisional charts? The principles and application remains the same but the kshetra changes. ATP, from what I understand is a fusion of transits and the rasi framework and uses the tithi ashotarri dasha. It zooms in on a year and enables a composite prediction and saves the efforts of going deep into vimshotrarri dasha analysis/daily transits. Surely such a method is invaluable? Please apply the core principles to ATP on several charts and make your own judgements. , SPK <aquaris_rising wrote: > > Hello, > > The point can never be proven with quizzes, or known > events. The people who have propogated D-charts, and > numerous parameters, the latest is Annual Thithi > pravesh, with D- charts. Rest assured that any event > can be justified in ANY chart. Just look at in from > probabilty satndpoint. If you look at a chart from > Lagna, Arudh Lagna, Karaka lagna, Moon lagna, Sun > lagna, Now do the same in a D- chart, Every planet > will be capable of giving a result. > > Finn Wandl who used to be on this list, a practicing > astrologer, had it right. He said he gets confused > with so many parameters that he can never predict. So > he uses time tested parameters, which are Main rashi > chart, get strengths through amshas, use of > rashi-tulya navansha, etc. One can never be a good > predictor if one can not predict from rashi chart > alone and a few supporting parameters( Key worsd is > FEw not 100s) and vimshottari dasha ( use of laghu > parashari is a must). > > The person who proposed system's approach has > simplified it greatly. He uses 11th lord as most > benefic( A slap in the face of laghu parashari). I > doubt KN Rao uses all these D-chart to arrive at the > main gist of the chart. Only he can answer this > question, not his books. > > The point is not quizzes, but predictions. In a quiz > there are a few possibilities and if 10 people > participate 1 of them will be right, and if used > annual TP in D-10 and used D-60 to tell about past > life he becomes king of the hill. So the proof is in > predicting an event which has not a obvious or > statistically overwhelming support or conventional > wisdom. I had, on this list last year predicted that > Federer will win US open( I did not know federer's > chart and I did not have to) This is quite obvious and > anyone who follows a sport can resonably predict these > things. So a prediction should be on something which > is difficult for people who do not know astrology to > predict. > > anyway. > > Satish > --- Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > > > > ____________________ ______________ > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Auto Green Center. > http://autos./green_center/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Hello, Composite prediction, composite apprach. One of those nice phrases. Composite confusion, that waht it is. One more parameter, one more technique. It would not surprise me if a few start using planets from satr trek. Satish --- atma_gnan <atma_gnan wrote: > > The answer of a quiz is known only to the initiator, > and the quiz in > question had no options : it was not a multiple > choice set up and no > hints at all were given. The nature of the event was > such that it > could not have been guessed. Hence anyone that is > successful in > answering would be in actuality making a prediction > on a blind chart, > not justifying a known event. So a successful > attempt at a blind quiz > with no hints/options = prediction. The methodology > remains > technically the same. > > I agree that too many parameters can be confusing, > but what is the > complexity in applying the same set of parameters > (placements, > aspects, lordships, significations, bhavta bhavam)to > divisional > charts? The principles and application remains the > same but the > kshetra changes. > > ATP, from what I understand is a fusion of transits > and the rasi > framework and uses the tithi ashotarri dasha. It > zooms in on a year > and enables a composite prediction and saves the > efforts of going > deep into vimshotrarri dasha analysis/daily > transits. Surely such a > method is invaluable? Please apply the core > principles to ATP on > several charts and make your own judgements. > > > > > > , SPK > <aquaris_rising wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > The point can never be proven with quizzes, or > known > > events. The people who have propogated D-charts, > and > > numerous parameters, the latest is Annual Thithi > > pravesh, with D- charts. Rest assured that any > event > > can be justified in ANY chart. Just look at in > from > > probabilty satndpoint. If you look at a chart from > > Lagna, Arudh Lagna, Karaka lagna, Moon lagna, Sun > > lagna, Now do the same in a D- chart, Every planet > > will be capable of giving a result. > > > > Finn Wandl who used to be on this list, a > practicing > > astrologer, had it right. He said he gets confused > > with so many parameters that he can never predict. > So > > he uses time tested parameters, which are Main > rashi > > chart, get strengths through amshas, use of > > rashi-tulya navansha, etc. One can never be a good > > predictor if one can not predict from rashi chart > > alone and a few supporting parameters( Key worsd > is > > FEw not 100s) and vimshottari dasha ( use of laghu > > parashari is a must). > > > > The person who proposed system's approach has > > simplified it greatly. He uses 11th lord as most > > benefic( A slap in the face of laghu parashari). I > > doubt KN Rao uses all these D-chart to arrive at > the > > main gist of the chart. Only he can answer this > > question, not his books. > > > > The point is not quizzes, but predictions. In a > quiz > > there are a few possibilities and if 10 people > > participate 1 of them will be right, and if used > > annual TP in D-10 and used D-60 to tell about past > > life he becomes king of the hill. So the proof is > in > > predicting an event which has not a obvious or > > statistically overwhelming support or conventional > > wisdom. I had, on this list last year predicted > that > > Federer will win US open( I did not know federer's > > chart and I did not have to) This is quite obvious > and > > anyone who follows a sport can resonably predict > these > > things. So a prediction should be on something > which > > is difficult for people who do not know astrology > to > > predict. > > > > anyway. > > > > Satish > > --- Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > ______________ > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in > alternative > vehicles. Visit the Auto Green Center. > > http://autos./green_center/ > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness./webhosting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 ATP chart(s) can be used in place of the original rasi framework as the ATP is representative of the rasi and transits, merged into an annual snapshot. So parameters: placements, aspects, lordships, bhavat bhavam, karakatwas remain as they are. And so does the number of charts if ATP is alone referred to (as in most cases). Simple case of substitution. Just a model replacement that is underpinned by the original framework. Thus same parameters, same technique. Limitations arise from an unwillingness to explore and apply methods to practical charts. Jyotish can be expressed in any manner as long as the goal of prediction is satisfied as it is essentially an art. Some will express Jyoitsh with a firm adherence to rasi (those with a strong Saturn) enjoying the patient, laborious approach. While others (those with strong Mercury/ Gemini influence will prefer to use an array of methods. A strong Venus-influenced Jyotishi would express this art with creative approaches and maybe even uncover new methods (or use planets from Star Trek!). Thus the inherent inclinations of all are catered for. Let's not restrict, oversimplify and constrain this great art. , SPK <aquaris_rising wrote: > > Hello, > > Composite prediction, composite apprach. One of those > nice phrases. Composite confusion, that waht it is. > One more parameter, one more technique. It would not > surprise me if a few start using planets from satr > trek. > > Satish > --- atma_gnan <atma_gnan wrote: > > > > > The answer of a quiz is known only to the initiator, > > and the quiz in > > question had no options : it was not a multiple > > choice set up and no > > hints at all were given. The nature of the event was > > such that it > > could not have been guessed. Hence anyone that is > > successful in > > answering would be in actuality making a prediction > > on a blind chart, > > not justifying a known event. So a successful > > attempt at a blind quiz > > with no hints/options = prediction. The methodology > > remains > > technically the same. > > > > I agree that too many parameters can be confusing, > > but what is the > > complexity in applying the same set of parameters > > (placements, > > aspects, lordships, significations, bhavta bhavam)to > > divisional > > charts? The principles and application remains the > > same but the > > kshetra changes. > > > > ATP, from what I understand is a fusion of transits > > and the rasi > > framework and uses the tithi ashotarri dasha. It > > zooms in on a year > > and enables a composite prediction and saves the > > efforts of going > > deep into vimshotrarri dasha analysis/daily > > transits. Surely such a > > method is invaluable? Please apply the core > > principles to ATP on > > several charts and make your own judgements. > > > > > > > > > > > > , SPK > > <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > The point can never be proven with quizzes, or > > known > > > events. The people who have propogated D-charts, > > and > > > numerous parameters, the latest is Annual Thithi > > > pravesh, with D- charts. Rest assured that any > > event > > > can be justified in ANY chart. Just look at in > > from > > > probabilty satndpoint. If you look at a chart from > > > Lagna, Arudh Lagna, Karaka lagna, Moon lagna, Sun > > > lagna, Now do the same in a D- chart, Every planet > > > will be capable of giving a result. > > > > > > Finn Wandl who used to be on this list, a > > practicing > > > astrologer, had it right. He said he gets confused > > > with so many parameters that he can never predict. > > So > > > he uses time tested parameters, which are Main > > rashi > > > chart, get strengths through amshas, use of > > > rashi-tulya navansha, etc. One can never be a good > > > predictor if one can not predict from rashi chart > > > alone and a few supporting parameters( Key worsd > > is > > > FEw not 100s) and vimshottari dasha ( use of laghu > > > parashari is a must). > > > > > > The person who proposed system's approach has > > > simplified it greatly. He uses 11th lord as most > > > benefic( A slap in the face of laghu parashari). I > > > doubt KN Rao uses all these D-chart to arrive at > > the > > > main gist of the chart. Only he can answer this > > > question, not his books. > > > > > > The point is not quizzes, but predictions. In a > > quiz > > > there are a few possibilities and if 10 people > > > participate 1 of them will be right, and if used > > > annual TP in D-10 and used D-60 to tell about past > > > life he becomes king of the hill. So the proof is > > in > > > predicting an event which has not a obvious or > > > statistically overwhelming support or conventional > > > wisdom. I had, on this list last year predicted > > that > > > Federer will win US open( I did not know federer's > > > chart and I did not have to) This is quite obvious > > and > > > anyone who follows a sport can resonably predict > > these > > > things. So a prediction should be on something > > which > > > is difficult for people who do not know astrology > > to > > > predict. > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > Satish > > > --- Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > ______________ > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in > > alternative > > vehicles. Visit the Auto Green Center. > > > http://autos./green_center/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ ______________ > Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. > http://smallbusiness./webhosting > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 What do You mean by ATP ? Please esplain by example chart ? We had enough of nonsense of theories which can be put here by all the members from reading books. We need practical examples and supported logical evidence by application of astrological principles. Put these. and talk. No other rubbish talks are neccissitated by the members. Theories with examples and the ,logical application of principles,which have been time tested on 500 charts if not thousand, is the demand of the hour. No new theories or tyring to espose any further intelligence unsupported. Bhaskar. , " atma_gnan " <atma_gnan wrote: > > ATP chart(s) can be used in place of the original rasi framework as > the ATP is representative of the rasi and transits, merged into an > annual snapshot. > > So parameters: placements, aspects, lordships, bhavat bhavam, > karakatwas remain as they are. And so does the number of charts if > ATP is alone referred to (as in most cases). Simple case of > substitution. Just a model replacement that is underpinned by the > original framework. > > Thus same parameters, same technique. Limitations arise from an > unwillingness to explore and apply methods to practical charts. > > Jyotish can be expressed in any manner as long as the goal of > prediction is satisfied as it is essentially an art. Some will > express Jyoitsh with a firm adherence to rasi (those with a strong > Saturn) enjoying the patient, laborious approach. While others (those > with strong Mercury/ Gemini influence will prefer to use an array of > methods. A strong Venus-influenced Jyotishi would express this art > with creative approaches and maybe even uncover new methods (or use > planets from Star Trek!). Thus the inherent inclinations of all are > catered for. Let's not restrict, oversimplify and constrain this > great art. > > > > > , SPK <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Composite prediction, composite apprach. One of those > > nice phrases. Composite confusion, that waht it is. > > One more parameter, one more technique. It would not > > surprise me if a few start using planets from satr > > trek. > > > > Satish > > --- atma_gnan <atma_gnan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The answer of a quiz is known only to the initiator, > > > and the quiz in > > > question had no options : it was not a multiple > > > choice set up and no > > > hints at all were given. The nature of the event was > > > such that it > > > could not have been guessed. Hence anyone that is > > > successful in > > > answering would be in actuality making a prediction > > > on a blind chart, > > > not justifying a known event. So a successful > > > attempt at a blind quiz > > > with no hints/options = prediction. The methodology > > > remains > > > technically the same. > > > > > > I agree that too many parameters can be confusing, > > > but what is the > > > complexity in applying the same set of parameters > > > (placements, > > > aspects, lordships, significations, bhavta bhavam)to > > > divisional > > > charts? The principles and application remains the > > > same but the > > > kshetra changes. > > > > > > ATP, from what I understand is a fusion of transits > > > and the rasi > > > framework and uses the tithi ashotarri dasha. It > > > zooms in on a year > > > and enables a composite prediction and saves the > > > efforts of going > > > deep into vimshotrarri dasha analysis/daily > > > transits. Surely such a > > > method is invaluable? Please apply the core > > > principles to ATP on > > > several charts and make your own judgements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , SPK > > > <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > The point can never be proven with quizzes, or > > > known > > > > events. The people who have propogated D-charts, > > > and > > > > numerous parameters, the latest is Annual Thithi > > > > pravesh, with D- charts. Rest assured that any > > > event > > > > can be justified in ANY chart. Just look at in > > > from > > > > probabilty satndpoint. If you look at a chart from > > > > Lagna, Arudh Lagna, Karaka lagna, Moon lagna, Sun > > > > lagna, Now do the same in a D- chart, Every planet > > > > will be capable of giving a result. > > > > > > > > Finn Wandl who used to be on this list, a > > > practicing > > > > astrologer, had it right. He said he gets confused > > > > with so many parameters that he can never predict. > > > So > > > > he uses time tested parameters, which are Main > > > rashi > > > > chart, get strengths through amshas, use of > > > > rashi-tulya navansha, etc. One can never be a good > > > > predictor if one can not predict from rashi chart > > > > alone and a few supporting parameters( Key worsd > > > is > > > > FEw not 100s) and vimshottari dasha ( use of laghu > > > > parashari is a must). > > > > > > > > The person who proposed system's approach has > > > > simplified it greatly. He uses 11th lord as most > > > > benefic( A slap in the face of laghu parashari). I > > > > doubt KN Rao uses all these D-chart to arrive at > > > the > > > > main gist of the chart. Only he can answer this > > > > question, not his books. > > > > > > > > The point is not quizzes, but predictions. In a > > > quiz > > > > there are a few possibilities and if 10 people > > > > participate 1 of them will be right, and if used > > > > annual TP in D-10 and used D-60 to tell about past > > > > life he becomes king of the hill. So the proof is > > > in > > > > predicting an event which has not a obvious or > > > > statistically overwhelming support or conventional > > > > wisdom. I had, on this list last year predicted > > > that > > > > Federer will win US open( I did not know federer's > > > > chart and I did not have to) This is quite obvious > > > and > > > > anyone who follows a sport can resonably predict > > > these > > > > things. So a prediction should be on something > > > which > > > > is difficult for people who do not know astrology > > > to > > > > predict. > > > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > --- Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > > ______________ > > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in > > > alternative > > > vehicles. Visit the Auto Green Center. > > > > http://autos./green_center/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > ______________ > > Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business gives > you all the tools to get online. > > http://smallbusiness./webhosting > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 ATP = Annual Tithi Pravesha. Please refer to the quiz posted on JR a few weeks back for a practical example of its application. PVR Narasimha Rao has also given countless demonstrations of its effectiveness. Anyway the reason I mentioned ATP was to highlight that if bhavas and aspects can be used in divisionals even in the ATP then what to say of the basic Rasi-D-charts framework? Also, I kindly request you to please keep the language noble as there really is no need to label contributions as rubbish talk without familiarisation with the background knowledge. Thanks. , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > What do You mean by ATP ? > Please esplain by example chart ? > We had enough of nonsense of theories which can be put > here by all the members from reading books. > We need practical examples and supported logical evidence > by application of astrological principles. > Put these. and talk. > No other rubbish talks are neccissitated by the members. > > Theories with examples and the ,logical application > of principles,which have been time tested on 500 charts > if not thousand, is the demand of the hour. > No new theories or tyring to espose any further > intelligence unsupported. > > Bhaskar. > > > > , " atma_gnan " <atma_gnan@> wrote: > > > > ATP chart(s) can be used in place of the original rasi framework as > > the ATP is representative of the rasi and transits, merged into an > > annual snapshot. > > > > So parameters: placements, aspects, lordships, bhavat bhavam, > > karakatwas remain as they are. And so does the number of charts if > > ATP is alone referred to (as in most cases). Simple case of > > substitution. Just a model replacement that is underpinned by the > > original framework. > > > > Thus same parameters, same technique. Limitations arise from an > > unwillingness to explore and apply methods to practical charts. > > > > Jyotish can be expressed in any manner as long as the goal of > > prediction is satisfied as it is essentially an art. Some will > > express Jyoitsh with a firm adherence to rasi (those with a strong > > Saturn) enjoying the patient, laborious approach. While others (those > > with strong Mercury/ Gemini influence will prefer to use an array of > > methods. A strong Venus-influenced Jyotishi would express this art > > with creative approaches and maybe even uncover new methods (or use > > planets from Star Trek!). Thus the inherent inclinations of all are > > catered for. Let's not restrict, oversimplify and constrain this > > great art. > > > > > > > > > > , SPK <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Composite prediction, composite apprach. One of those > > > nice phrases. Composite confusion, that waht it is. > > > One more parameter, one more technique. It would not > > > surprise me if a few start using planets from satr > > > trek. > > > > > > Satish > > > --- atma_gnan <atma_gnan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The answer of a quiz is known only to the initiator, > > > > and the quiz in > > > > question had no options : it was not a multiple > > > > choice set up and no > > > > hints at all were given. The nature of the event was > > > > such that it > > > > could not have been guessed. Hence anyone that is > > > > successful in > > > > answering would be in actuality making a prediction > > > > on a blind chart, > > > > not justifying a known event. So a successful > > > > attempt at a blind quiz > > > > with no hints/options = prediction. The methodology > > > > remains > > > > technically the same. > > > > > > > > I agree that too many parameters can be confusing, > > > > but what is the > > > > complexity in applying the same set of parameters > > > > (placements, > > > > aspects, lordships, significations, bhavta bhavam)to > > > > divisional > > > > charts? The principles and application remains the > > > > same but the > > > > kshetra changes. > > > > > > > > ATP, from what I understand is a fusion of transits > > > > and the rasi > > > > framework and uses the tithi ashotarri dasha. It > > > > zooms in on a year > > > > and enables a composite prediction and saves the > > > > efforts of going > > > > deep into vimshotrarri dasha analysis/daily > > > > transits. Surely such a > > > > method is invaluable? Please apply the core > > > > principles to ATP on > > > > several charts and make your own judgements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , SPK > > > > <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > The point can never be proven with quizzes, or > > > > known > > > > > events. The people who have propogated D-charts, > > > > and > > > > > numerous parameters, the latest is Annual Thithi > > > > > pravesh, with D- charts. Rest assured that any > > > > event > > > > > can be justified in ANY chart. Just look at in > > > > from > > > > > probabilty satndpoint. If you look at a chart from > > > > > Lagna, Arudh Lagna, Karaka lagna, Moon lagna, Sun > > > > > lagna, Now do the same in a D- chart, Every planet > > > > > will be capable of giving a result. > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandl who used to be on this list, a > > > > practicing > > > > > astrologer, had it right. He said he gets confused > > > > > with so many parameters that he can never predict. > > > > So > > > > > he uses time tested parameters, which are Main > > > > rashi > > > > > chart, get strengths through amshas, use of > > > > > rashi-tulya navansha, etc. One can never be a good > > > > > predictor if one can not predict from rashi chart > > > > > alone and a few supporting parameters( Key worsd > > > > is > > > > > FEw not 100s) and vimshottari dasha ( use of laghu > > > > > parashari is a must). > > > > > > > > > > The person who proposed system's approach has > > > > > simplified it greatly. He uses 11th lord as most > > > > > benefic( A slap in the face of laghu parashari). I > > > > > doubt KN Rao uses all these D-chart to arrive at > > > > the > > > > > main gist of the chart. Only he can answer this > > > > > question, not his books. > > > > > > > > > > The point is not quizzes, but predictions. In a > > > > quiz > > > > > there are a few possibilities and if 10 people > > > > > participate 1 of them will be right, and if used > > > > > annual TP in D-10 and used D-60 to tell about past > > > > > life he becomes king of the hill. So the proof is > > > > in > > > > > predicting an event which has not a obvious or > > > > > statistically overwhelming support or conventional > > > > > wisdom. I had, on this list last year predicted > > > > that > > > > > Federer will win US open( I did not know federer's > > > > > chart and I did not have to) This is quite obvious > > > > and > > > > > anyone who follows a sport can resonably predict > > > > these > > > > > things. So a prediction should be on something > > > > which > > > > > is difficult for people who do not know astrology > > > > to > > > > > predict. > > > > > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > --- Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > > > ______________ > > > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in > > > > alternative > > > > vehicles. Visit the Auto Green Center. > > > > > http://autos./green_center/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > ______________ > > > Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business gives > > you all the tools to get online. > > > http://smallbusiness./webhosting > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 A usefull link in this regard, with a few case study examples: http://srath.com/lessons/advanced/tithipravesh.htm , " atma_gnan " <atma_gnan wrote: > > ATP = Annual Tithi Pravesha. > Please refer to the quiz posted on JR a few weeks back for a > practical example of its application. PVR Narasimha Rao has also > given countless demonstrations of its effectiveness. Anyway the > reason I mentioned ATP was to highlight that if bhavas and aspects > can be used in divisionals even in the ATP then what to say of the > basic Rasi-D-charts framework? > > Also, I kindly request you to please keep the language noble as there > really is no need to label contributions as rubbish talk without > familiarisation with the background knowledge. > > Thanks. > > > > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> > wrote: > > > > What do You mean by ATP ? > > Please esplain by example chart ? > > We had enough of nonsense of theories which can be put > > here by all the members from reading books. > > We need practical examples and supported logical evidence > > by application of astrological principles. > > Put these. and talk. > > No other rubbish talks are neccissitated by the members. > > > > Theories with examples and the ,logical application > > of principles,which have been time tested on 500 charts > > if not thousand, is the demand of the hour. > > No new theories or tyring to espose any further > > intelligence unsupported. > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > , " atma_gnan " <atma_gnan@> wrote: > > > > > > ATP chart(s) can be used in place of the original rasi framework > as > > > the ATP is representative of the rasi and transits, merged into > an > > > annual snapshot. > > > > > > So parameters: placements, aspects, lordships, bhavat bhavam, > > > karakatwas remain as they are. And so does the number of charts > if > > > ATP is alone referred to (as in most cases). Simple case of > > > substitution. Just a model replacement that is underpinned by the > > > original framework. > > > > > > Thus same parameters, same technique. Limitations arise from an > > > unwillingness to explore and apply methods to practical charts. > > > > > > Jyotish can be expressed in any manner as long as the goal of > > > prediction is satisfied as it is essentially an art. Some will > > > express Jyoitsh with a firm adherence to rasi (those with a > strong > > > Saturn) enjoying the patient, laborious approach. While others > (those > > > with strong Mercury/ Gemini influence will prefer to use an array > of > > > methods. A strong Venus-influenced Jyotishi would express this > art > > > with creative approaches and maybe even uncover new methods (or > use > > > planets from Star Trek!). Thus the inherent inclinations of all > are > > > catered for. Let's not restrict, oversimplify and constrain this > > > great art. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , SPK <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > Composite prediction, composite apprach. One of those > > > > nice phrases. Composite confusion, that waht it is. > > > > One more parameter, one more technique. It would not > > > > surprise me if a few start using planets from satr > > > > trek. > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > --- atma_gnan <atma_gnan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer of a quiz is known only to the initiator, > > > > > and the quiz in > > > > > question had no options : it was not a multiple > > > > > choice set up and no > > > > > hints at all were given. The nature of the event was > > > > > such that it > > > > > could not have been guessed. Hence anyone that is > > > > > successful in > > > > > answering would be in actuality making a prediction > > > > > on a blind chart, > > > > > not justifying a known event. So a successful > > > > > attempt at a blind quiz > > > > > with no hints/options = prediction. The methodology > > > > > remains > > > > > technically the same. > > > > > > > > > > I agree that too many parameters can be confusing, > > > > > but what is the > > > > > complexity in applying the same set of parameters > > > > > (placements, > > > > > aspects, lordships, significations, bhavta bhavam)to > > > > > divisional > > > > > charts? The principles and application remains the > > > > > same but the > > > > > kshetra changes. > > > > > > > > > > ATP, from what I understand is a fusion of transits > > > > > and the rasi > > > > > framework and uses the tithi ashotarri dasha. It > > > > > zooms in on a year > > > > > and enables a composite prediction and saves the > > > > > efforts of going > > > > > deep into vimshotrarri dasha analysis/daily > > > > > transits. Surely such a > > > > > method is invaluable? Please apply the core > > > > > principles to ATP on > > > > > several charts and make your own judgements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , SPK > > > > > <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > The point can never be proven with quizzes, or > > > > > known > > > > > > events. The people who have propogated D-charts, > > > > > and > > > > > > numerous parameters, the latest is Annual Thithi > > > > > > pravesh, with D- charts. Rest assured that any > > > > > event > > > > > > can be justified in ANY chart. Just look at in > > > > > from > > > > > > probabilty satndpoint. If you look at a chart from > > > > > > Lagna, Arudh Lagna, Karaka lagna, Moon lagna, Sun > > > > > > lagna, Now do the same in a D- chart, Every planet > > > > > > will be capable of giving a result. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandl who used to be on this list, a > > > > > practicing > > > > > > astrologer, had it right. He said he gets confused > > > > > > with so many parameters that he can never predict. > > > > > So > > > > > > he uses time tested parameters, which are Main > > > > > rashi > > > > > > chart, get strengths through amshas, use of > > > > > > rashi-tulya navansha, etc. One can never be a good > > > > > > predictor if one can not predict from rashi chart > > > > > > alone and a few supporting parameters( Key worsd > > > > > is > > > > > > FEw not 100s) and vimshottari dasha ( use of laghu > > > > > > parashari is a must). > > > > > > > > > > > > The person who proposed system's approach has > > > > > > simplified it greatly. He uses 11th lord as most > > > > > > benefic( A slap in the face of laghu parashari). I > > > > > > doubt KN Rao uses all these D-chart to arrive at > > > > > the > > > > > > main gist of the chart. Only he can answer this > > > > > > question, not his books. > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is not quizzes, but predictions. In a > > > > > quiz > > > > > > there are a few possibilities and if 10 people > > > > > > participate 1 of them will be right, and if used > > > > > > annual TP in D-10 and used D-60 to tell about past > > > > > > life he becomes king of the hill. So the proof is > > > > > in > > > > > > predicting an event which has not a obvious or > > > > > > statistically overwhelming support or conventional > > > > > > wisdom. I had, on this list last year predicted > > > > > that > > > > > > Federer will win US open( I did not know federer's > > > > > > chart and I did not have to) This is quite obvious > > > > > and > > > > > > anyone who follows a sport can resonably predict > > > > > these > > > > > > things. So a prediction should be on something > > > > > which > > > > > > is difficult for people who do not know astrology > > > > > to > > > > > > predict. > > > > > > > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > --- Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > > > > ______________ > > > > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in > > > > > alternative > > > > > vehicles. Visit the Auto Green Center. > > > > > > http://autos./green_center/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > > ______________ > > > > Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business > gives > > > you all the tools to get online. > > > > http://smallbusiness./webhosting > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 //Also, I kindly request you to please keep the language noble as there > really is no need to label contributions as rubbish talk without > familiarisation with the background knowledge.// I beg to be forgiven. That was not for you, but for the other posts being witnessed in abundance. regards, Bhaskar. , " atma_gnan " <atma_gnan wrote: > > ATP = Annual Tithi Pravesha. > Please refer to the quiz posted on JR a few weeks back for a > practical example of its application. PVR Narasimha Rao has also > given countless demonstrations of its effectiveness. Anyway the > reason I mentioned ATP was to highlight that if bhavas and aspects > can be used in divisionals even in the ATP then what to say of the > basic Rasi-D-charts framework? > > Also, I kindly request you to please keep the language noble as there > really is no need to label contributions as rubbish talk without > familiarisation with the background knowledge. > > Thanks. > > > > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> > wrote: > > > > What do You mean by ATP ? > > Please esplain by example chart ? > > We had enough of nonsense of theories which can be put > > here by all the members from reading books. > > We need practical examples and supported logical evidence > > by application of astrological principles. > > Put these. and talk. > > No other rubbish talks are neccissitated by the members. > > > > Theories with examples and the ,logical application > > of principles,which have been time tested on 500 charts > > if not thousand, is the demand of the hour. > > No new theories or tyring to espose any further > > intelligence unsupported. > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > , " atma_gnan " <atma_gnan@> wrote: > > > > > > ATP chart(s) can be used in place of the original rasi framework > as > > > the ATP is representative of the rasi and transits, merged into > an > > > annual snapshot. > > > > > > So parameters: placements, aspects, lordships, bhavat bhavam, > > > karakatwas remain as they are. And so does the number of charts > if > > > ATP is alone referred to (as in most cases). Simple case of > > > substitution. Just a model replacement that is underpinned by the > > > original framework. > > > > > > Thus same parameters, same technique. Limitations arise from an > > > unwillingness to explore and apply methods to practical charts. > > > > > > Jyotish can be expressed in any manner as long as the goal of > > > prediction is satisfied as it is essentially an art. Some will > > > express Jyoitsh with a firm adherence to rasi (those with a > strong > > > Saturn) enjoying the patient, laborious approach. While others > (those > > > with strong Mercury/ Gemini influence will prefer to use an array > of > > > methods. A strong Venus-influenced Jyotishi would express this > art > > > with creative approaches and maybe even uncover new methods (or > use > > > planets from Star Trek!). Thus the inherent inclinations of all > are > > > catered for. Let's not restrict, oversimplify and constrain this > > > great art. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , SPK <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > Composite prediction, composite apprach. One of those > > > > nice phrases. Composite confusion, that waht it is. > > > > One more parameter, one more technique. It would not > > > > surprise me if a few start using planets from satr > > > > trek. > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > --- atma_gnan <atma_gnan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer of a quiz is known only to the initiator, > > > > > and the quiz in > > > > > question had no options : it was not a multiple > > > > > choice set up and no > > > > > hints at all were given. The nature of the event was > > > > > such that it > > > > > could not have been guessed. Hence anyone that is > > > > > successful in > > > > > answering would be in actuality making a prediction > > > > > on a blind chart, > > > > > not justifying a known event. So a successful > > > > > attempt at a blind quiz > > > > > with no hints/options = prediction. The methodology > > > > > remains > > > > > technically the same. > > > > > > > > > > I agree that too many parameters can be confusing, > > > > > but what is the > > > > > complexity in applying the same set of parameters > > > > > (placements, > > > > > aspects, lordships, significations, bhavta bhavam)to > > > > > divisional > > > > > charts? The principles and application remains the > > > > > same but the > > > > > kshetra changes. > > > > > > > > > > ATP, from what I understand is a fusion of transits > > > > > and the rasi > > > > > framework and uses the tithi ashotarri dasha. It > > > > > zooms in on a year > > > > > and enables a composite prediction and saves the > > > > > efforts of going > > > > > deep into vimshotrarri dasha analysis/daily > > > > > transits. Surely such a > > > > > method is invaluable? Please apply the core > > > > > principles to ATP on > > > > > several charts and make your own judgements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , SPK > > > > > <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > The point can never be proven with quizzes, or > > > > > known > > > > > > events. The people who have propogated D-charts, > > > > > and > > > > > > numerous parameters, the latest is Annual Thithi > > > > > > pravesh, with D- charts. Rest assured that any > > > > > event > > > > > > can be justified in ANY chart. Just look at in > > > > > from > > > > > > probabilty satndpoint. If you look at a chart from > > > > > > Lagna, Arudh Lagna, Karaka lagna, Moon lagna, Sun > > > > > > lagna, Now do the same in a D- chart, Every planet > > > > > > will be capable of giving a result. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finn Wandl who used to be on this list, a > > > > > practicing > > > > > > astrologer, had it right. He said he gets confused > > > > > > with so many parameters that he can never predict. > > > > > So > > > > > > he uses time tested parameters, which are Main > > > > > rashi > > > > > > chart, get strengths through amshas, use of > > > > > > rashi-tulya navansha, etc. One can never be a good > > > > > > predictor if one can not predict from rashi chart > > > > > > alone and a few supporting parameters( Key worsd > > > > > is > > > > > > FEw not 100s) and vimshottari dasha ( use of laghu > > > > > > parashari is a must). > > > > > > > > > > > > The person who proposed system's approach has > > > > > > simplified it greatly. He uses 11th lord as most > > > > > > benefic( A slap in the face of laghu parashari). I > > > > > > doubt KN Rao uses all these D-chart to arrive at > > > > > the > > > > > > main gist of the chart. Only he can answer this > > > > > > question, not his books. > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is not quizzes, but predictions. In a > > > > > quiz > > > > > > there are a few possibilities and if 10 people > > > > > > participate 1 of them will be right, and if used > > > > > > annual TP in D-10 and used D-60 to tell about past > > > > > > life he becomes king of the hill. So the proof is > > > > > in > > > > > > predicting an event which has not a obvious or > > > > > > statistically overwhelming support or conventional > > > > > > wisdom. I had, on this list last year predicted > > > > > that > > > > > > Federer will win US open( I did not know federer's > > > > > > chart and I did not have to) This is quite obvious > > > > > and > > > > > > anyone who follows a sport can resonably predict > > > > > these > > > > > > things. So a prediction should be on something > > > > > which > > > > > > is difficult for people who do not know astrology > > > > > to > > > > > > predict. > > > > > > > > > > > > anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > --- Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > > > > ______________ > > > > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in > > > > > alternative > > > > > vehicles. Visit the Auto Green Center. > > > > > > http://autos./green_center/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > > ______________ > > > > Building a website is a piece of cake. Small Business > gives > > > you all the tools to get online. > > > > http://smallbusiness./webhosting > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear Satish ji You have highlighted few brilliant points. Please read my reply underneath your comments: > > The point can never be proven with quizzes, or known > events. The people who have propogated D-charts, and > numerous parameters, the latest is Annual Thithi > pravesh, with D- charts. Rest assured that any event > can be justified in ANY chart. Just look at in from > probabilty satndpoint. If you look at a chart from > Lagna, Arudh Lagna, Karaka lagna, Moon lagna, Sun > lagna, Now do the same in a D- chart, Every planet > will be capable of giving a result. [Prafulla] Very true. That is why, when one specific parameter is put to test, then oher interpretation issues are ignored for testing purpose. Only at some stage of its testing - the overriding factors are to be considered. Yes - Only Event matching - at some stage - falls into " fixing " jyotish. With so many parameters - and almost each planet becoming the candidate for event - we are often, moving no where. > > Finn Wandl who used to be on this list, a practicing > astrologer, had it right. He said he gets confused > with so many parameters that he can never predict. So > he uses time tested parameters, which are Main rashi > chart, get strengths through amshas, use of > rashi-tulya navansha, etc. One can never be a good > predictor if one can not predict from rashi chart > alone and a few supporting parameters( Key worsd is > FEw not 100s) and vimshottari dasha ( use of laghu > parashari is a must). > [Prafulla] That is why prediction fails. Almost all traditionalists / authors emphasises on D1 chart. Traditionalists in northern India extends to Bhava Chalit Chart. > The person who proposed system's approach has > simplified it greatly. He uses 11th lord as most > benefic( A slap in the face of laghu parashari). I > doubt KN Rao uses all these D-chart to arrive at the > main gist of the chart. Only he can answer this > question, not his books. > [Prafulla] Shri VK Choudhry has, indeed done a commendable task. Irrespective of the criticism that he has deviated a bit from vedic astrology; but for SA practioners - he has delivered an interpretation model, which is free from contradicitons. It ensures consistent application of its principles. No unnecessary overriding principles. and It works !! regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net A little boost to the ego is undeniably exhilarating, but ask yourself if the initial excitement is worth the spiritual hangover. Remind yourself that real self-esteem is built on more substantial activities. ************************************************ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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