Why Navamsa Chart is so important?Quarter/Half aspects

" Men who never get carried away should be. "

************************************************

>

> vijayadas_pradeep

> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

>

> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?Quarter/Half

> aspects

>

> Dear Prafulla ji

>

> The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

> check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

> mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

> etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are non-

> full aspects in rashi chart.

>

> Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji too

> had given similr explanations.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Pradeep,

>>

>> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma has

> given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury aspecting

> venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

> reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

>>

>> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current age

> scholars !!

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>> ************************************************

>>

>>>

>>> jyotish

>>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

>>>

>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>

>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>

>>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment, be

>>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> application

>>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

>>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

>>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

> jyotish.

>>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

> then at

>>> least, I will hear with open mind.

>>>

>>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to commentaries -

> but my

>>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> of " less read

>>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

> KN Rao /

>>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> not " pretend " to

>>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka business "

> with my

>>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

> quality

>>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

>>>

>>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

>>>

>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>> http://www.prafulla.net

>>>

>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>> ************************************************

>>>

>>>>

>>>> sreesog

>>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

>>>>

>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>

>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every one

> is

>>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

> chance

>>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> argument is

>>>> right.

>>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

> you

>>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> understand

>>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow someone

> who

>>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

>>>> Love,

>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>

>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

>>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

> any

>>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must not

>>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

>>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

>>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

>>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

> must

>>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

>>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

>>>> relevance.

>>>>>

>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>

>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right

> to

>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

> like

>>>> D1

>>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

>>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> planets

>>>> in

>>>>>> Navamasa "

>>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

> are

>>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> sages;

>>>> If

>>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>

>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

> chart

>>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

> can be

>>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> http://www.prafulla.net

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> right

>>>> to

>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

> chart

>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

> it

>>>> is

>>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas

> due

>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall

>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

> the

>>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> importance.

>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> like

>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

> (There

>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> as

>>>> if

>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means

>>>> that.

>>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

>>>> wrong

>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>> mix the two.

>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes

>>>>>> yoga in

>>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

> is

>>>> the

>>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the

>>>>>> result

>>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

>>>>>> applicable

>>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> considered

>>>> in

>>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

> aspect

>>>> or

>>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

> chart.

>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy Seetharama

>>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

> the

>>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

> chart

>>>> is

>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

> so

>>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

> what

>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

>>>>>>>>> important.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall

>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> like

>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> as

>>>> if

>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> chart, it

>>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

> equal

>>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

> What I

>>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance?

>>>> What

>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

> varga

>>>>>>>>> charts!

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Regards,

>>>>>>>>> Krishna

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of

>>>>>>>>>> your

>>>>>>>>>> contributions.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable

>>>>>>>>>> inputs

>>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

> like

>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

> alone

>>>>>>>>>> most

>>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

>>>>>>>>>> approaches

>>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> valuable;

>>>>>>>>>> at the

>>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate

>>>>>>>>>> chart (of

>>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since

>>>>>>>>>> any of

>>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

> chart

>>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several

>>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

> viewed

>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

>>>>>>>>>> confirming

>>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> separate

>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> checking

>>>>>>>>>> some

>>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the

>>>>>>>>>> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be

>>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at

> the

>>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

> Rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in

> the

>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is

>>>>>>>>>> condiered

>>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why

> is

>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

> though

>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

>>>>>>>>>> positioning

>>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

> it;

>>>>>>>>>> means,

>>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest

>>>>>>>>>> point for

>>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

>>>>>>>>>> strength

>>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths

> for

>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa

>>>>>>>>>> position

>>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

> the

>>>>>>>>>> rasi.

>>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the

>>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

> of

>>>>>>>>>> them

>>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the

>>>>>>>>>> same

>>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

> but

>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it

> can

>>>>>>>>>> be

>>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

> given

>>>>>>>>>> by the

>>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi

>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

>>>>>>>>>> observed

>>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the

>>>>>>>>>> 12th

>>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi

>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

>>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

>>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra)

>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is

>>>>>>>>>> brought

>>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

> of

>>>>>>>>>> my life

>>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

> lagna

>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

>>>>>>>>>> here; I am

>>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

> the

>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

> says.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in

>>>>>>>>>> the 4th

>>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

> and

>>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional

>>>>>>>>>> education).

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize

>>>>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

>>>>>>>>>> isolation of

>>>>>>>>>> the other.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

>>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar

>>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao.

>>>>>>>>>> First

>>>>>>>>>> there is

>>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

> it

>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> perhaps

>>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

>>>>>>>>>> astrological

>>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

> the

>>>>>>>>>> context that

>>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and

>>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

>>>>>>>>>> occupation of

>>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha

>>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

>>>>>>>>>> parameters.

>>>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

>>>>>>>>>> interpretation

>>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine

>>>>>>>>>> if he

>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results

>>>>>>>>>> indicated on

>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential

>>>>>>>>>> promised by

>>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> materialize. I

>>>>>>>>>> hope

>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

>>>>>>>>>> discussion on

>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is

>>>>>>>>>> worth.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the

>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has

>>>>>>>>>> one

>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the

>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

>>>>>>>>>> shlokas

>>>>>>>>>> which

>>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

>>>>>>>>>> point.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

> the

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> answer and

>>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

> proper

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>

> ____________________

>>>>>>>> ______________

>>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

>>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews

> at

>>>>>>>> Games.

>>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

July 7, 2007

Dear Prafulla ji

If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in Dashadhayayi.Moreover

Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

chandranavmshaka rashi.

Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by sagelike

figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not english

translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit with

clear reeference to rashi.

Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can only

be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha rashi.Whether you

see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka rashi,they are

both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no amiguity

at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

Regds

Pradeep

, Prafulla Gang <jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> many thanks for your pointer.

>

> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali

and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

>

> I quote another reference:

> Satyacharya:

> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the

navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

(conveyances). "

>

> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in

transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred

and navamsa chakras are referred.

>

> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document;

as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts

and aspects therein.

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> ************************************************

>

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> >

> > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

Quarter/Half

> > aspects

> >

> > Dear Prafulla ji

> >

> > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

> > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

> > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

> > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are

non-

> > full aspects in rashi chart.

> >

> > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji

too

> > had given similr explanations.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> >>

> >> Dear Pradeep,

> >>

> >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma

has

> > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

aspecting

> > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

> > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> >>

> >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current

age

> > scholars !!

> >>

> >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >> http://www.prafulla.net

> >>

> >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >> ************************************************

> >>

> >>>

> >>> jyotish@

> >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> >>>

> >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>

> >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> >>>

> >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment,

be

> >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> > application

> >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

> >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

> >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

> > jyotish.

> >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

> > then at

> >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> >>>

> >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

commentaries -

> > but my

> >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> > of " less read

> >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

> > KN Rao /

> >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > not " pretend " to

> >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

business "

> > with my

> >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

> > quality

> >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> >>>

> >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> >>>

> >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>> http://www.prafulla.net

> >>>

> >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >>> ************************************************

> >>>

> >>>>

> >>>> sreesog@

> >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> >>>>

> >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>

> >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every

one

> > is

> >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

> > chance

> >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> > argument is

> >>>> right.

> >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

> > you

> >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > understand

> >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

someone

> > who

> >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> >>>> Love,

> >>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>

> >>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>> wrote:

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

> >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

> > any

> >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must

not

> >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

> >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

> >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

> > must

> >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

> >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

> >>>> relevance.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

right

> > to

> >>>> be taken seriously. "

> >>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

> > like

> >>>> D1

> >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> > planets

> >>>> in

> >>>>>> Navamasa "

> >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

> > are

> >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> > sages;

> >>>> If

> >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>>>> wrote:

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

> > chart

> >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

> > can be

> >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> > right

> >>>> to

> >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> >>>>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

> > chart

> >>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

> > it

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

amsas

> > due

> >>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

overall

> >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

> > the

> >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > importance.

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> > like

> >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

> > (There

> >>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> > as

> >>>> if

> >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

means

> >>>> that.

> >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

> >>>> wrong

> >>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But

yes

> >>>>>> yoga in

> >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

> > is

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict

the

> >>>>>> result

> >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

> >>>>>> applicable

> >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > considered

> >>>> in

> >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

> > aspect

> >>>> or

> >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

> > chart.

> >>>>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy

Seetharama

> >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

> > the

> >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

> > chart

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

> > so

> >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

> > what

> >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

> >>>>>>>>> important.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

overall

> >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> > like

> >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> > as

> >>>> if

> >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> > chart, it

> >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

> > equal

> >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

> > What I

> >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

importance?

> >>>> What

> >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

> > varga

> >>>>>>>>> charts!

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both

of

> >>>>>>>>>> your

> >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

valuable

> >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

> > like

> >>>>>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

> > alone

> >>>>>>>>>> most

> >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

> >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > valuable;

> >>>>>>>>>> at the

> >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

separate

> >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

since

> >>>>>>>>>> any of

> >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

> > Rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

> > chart

> >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

several

> >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

> > viewed

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

> >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> > separate

> >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> > checking

> >>>>>>>>>> some

> >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in

the

> >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should

be

> >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence

at

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

> > Rasi.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house

in

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it

is

> >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi.

Why

> > is

> >>>>>>>>>> this

> >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

> > though

> >>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

> > it;

> >>>>>>>>>> means,

> >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

weakest

> >>>>>>>>>> point for

> >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

> >>>>>>>>>> strength

> >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

strengths

> > for

> >>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

navamsa

> >>>>>>>>>> position

> >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both

the

> >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

> > of

> >>>>>>>>>> them

> >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give

the

> >>>>>>>>>> same

> >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

> > but

> >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that

it

> > can

> >>>>>>>>>> be

> >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

> > given

> >>>>>>>>>> by the

> >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

> >>>>>>>>>> observed

> >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in

the

> >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

> >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

Chandra)

> >>>>>>>>>> and

> >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa

is

> >>>>>>>>>> brought

> >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

> > of

> >>>>>>>>>> my life

> >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

> > lagna

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

> >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

> > says.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

> > Rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is

in

> >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

> > and

> >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

traditional

> >>>>>>>>>> education).

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

summarize

> >>>>>>>>>> that

> >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

> >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar

> >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

Rao.

> >>>>>>>>>> First

> >>>>>>>>>> there is

> >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

> > it

> >>>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

> >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> context that

> >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha

and

> >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

> >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

karakamsha

> >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

> >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> >>>>>>>>>> I

> >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

> >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of

mine

> >>>>>>>>>> if he

> >>>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

results

> >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

potential

> >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

> >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > materialize. I

> >>>>>>>>>> hope

> >>>>>>>>>> this

> >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> >>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it

is

> >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to

the

> >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha

has

> >>>>>>>>>> one

> >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to

the

> >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

> >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> >>>>>>>>>> which

> >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

> >>>>>>>>>> point.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

> > proper

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>

> >

____________________

> >>>>>>>> ______________

> >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

previews

> > at

> >>>>>>>> Games.

> >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

July 7, 2007

Dear Pradeep ji,

My part I reply..

In previous mail, you stated the interpretation taken by Shri Rohini Ranjan ji.

I searched and found his article. Since, I have not sought his permission to

submit the contents of the article, hence submitting the web link. In my

personal opinion and observation, I have rated Shri Ranjan as a superlative

astrologer and research scholar with great logical deductive abilities - much

above many (no offence meant to any individual). Even he is suggesting the

practical application - perhaps the only way forward.

Varga Chakras (Kundalis) in Jyotish Classics? - By Shri Rohini Ranjan

http://www.boloji.com/astro/00344.htm

Let me quote some portion from his article:

*** begin quote***

BPHS has to the best of my understanding not clarified if the karakamsha kundali

is to be read in the navamsha arrangement or the rashi arrangement (even though

in both case the karakamsha sign will be taken from the navamsha where AK is

placed). Modern jyotishis are split over this matter.

This, therefore, will be the deciding factor. If you see planetary arrangements

for the karakamsha chart in rashi after finding the seed orientation (atmakaraka

in navamsha), then you would say that the above citation in BPHS does not

clarify or indicate the use of varga kundali or of bhavas in sub-rashi vargas.

On the other hand, if you continue to use the navamsha positions of other

planets for the karakamsha examination, then there lies the less explicit (than

Chapter 5) but important recommendation that houses matter and should be studied

in vargas. By extrapolation, as in the navamsha, so in the dashamsa and the

remaining 13 (Rashi having being unequivocally accepted as suitable for studying

houses in a horoscopic manner: Chapter 5, BPHS!). However, there still was no

evidence or classical indication for the use of drishtis in amsha varga

kundalis. A case was made about it â€œjust not being astronomically correctâ€

because drishtis were based on angular distances (even though Vedic drishtis are

more lax in orbs than their western tropical astrology counterparts, but angular

all the same). There was more searching that needed to be done, obviously!

At this juncture, someone mentioned that Kalyan Varma, the jyotishi king was a

reputable source and had dealt with navamshas in a brilliant manner and had not

recommended the use of varga kundali. It was indeed a cue from the Universe! My

next focus of attention was â€“ Saravali, a text that I absolutely love!

Anyways, I recalled something in Saravali that I was a bit bothered by early on

during my Jyotish learning. Indeed, soon I was looking at Chapters 22 onwards

where effects of drishtis between planets were mentioned by Kalyan Varma.

Before I got into it, though, I needed to make sure what a drishti means to

jyotishis. Most jyotishis writing in English use the term â€˜aspectsâ€™ for

drishtis, just like their tropical brethren. However, there are some

differences. Conjunction is an aspect, however yugma or more specifically yuti

(coming together of planets) is not a drishti. Several references in

Satyacharyaâ€™s writings mention â€œYuto Drishtoâ€ and other grammatical forms

of these two terms. Now Satyacharya is economical in the use of words, if

nothing else. He would not use two words that mean the same thing next to each

other. This then would imply that Yuti (conjunction) is separate from Drishti

(aspect) in Jyotish parlance. Yuti is not drishti, though the effect or

influence might be similar.

Next, looking into the mathematical consideration of drishti in drig bala,

conjunctions do not come into consideration when determining aspect strengths.

In fact the planets have to be greater than 2 signs in order to get a aspect

strength value. This allows an unambiguous cuff of separation between two

planets and yuti or conjunction not getting aspect strength at all. An indirect

but important confirmation that conjunction is not meant when ancient jyotishis

referred to â€˜drishtiâ€™.

How come, then, Kalyan Varma in several slokas (e.g., Chap. 22, sloka 6, 7, 14

...., Chap.26, slokas 25, 29, on and on in similar slokas â€“ talks about effects

of drishtis (no mention of conjunctions or yutis) between Sun and Mercury and

Sun and Venus, and Mercury and Venus? Once or twice could have been a mistake or

error committed by a dozing student of Kalyan Varma who was taking dictation but

there are too many instances there! Now, even a neophyte in astrology would

agree that Venus and definitely Mercury would never get so far from Sun to enter

into a drishti sambandh! UNLESS, obviously, Kalyan Varma was not referring to

the rashi horoscope but also to amsha varga horoscopes! Yes, this makes sense!!

Putting 2 and 2 together â€“ Parashara indicating house relationships in varga

charts in the karakamsha examination and Kalyan Varma even more directly and at

several places referring to something that can be an astronomical reality only

in varga charts â€“ are providing firm indication of Jyotish classics

recommending the use vargas in a kundali, chakra or horoscope form with

consideration of bhavas as in rashi as well as aspects, or drishtis!

A good beginning! Now we would all need to study further and find practical

applicability for this information. Even more than what has been shown in the

past by way of demonstration of use of varga charts in practical Jyotish. Not so

much to convince a few individuals who would rather hang on to their pegs of

comfort and conviction, but to create more light and less smoke in the caverns

of Jyotish. A much admired jyotishi generally signs off his messages with,

â€œMay Jupiterâ€™s light shine on usâ€. To that I would like to add, â€œMaybe

we should invite the soul-karaka Sun too â€“ for the cavern needs all the light

it can get!â€

***** end quote*****

regards / Prafulla Gang

" Men who never get carried away should be. "

************************************************

>

> vijayadas_pradeep

> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 23:43:46 -0000

>

> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?Quarter/Half

> aspects

>

> Dear Prafulla ji

>

> If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

> talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

> chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in Dashadhayayi.Moreover

> Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

> chandranavmshaka rashi.

>

> Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by sagelike

> figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not english

> translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit with

> clear reeference to rashi.

>

> Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

> rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

> reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

>

> So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can only

> be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha rashi.Whether you

> see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka rashi,they are

> both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no amiguity

> at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Pradeep,

>>

>> many thanks for your pointer.

>>

>> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali

> and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

>>

>> I quote another reference:

>> Satyacharya:

>> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the

> navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> (conveyances). "

>>

>> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in

> transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred

> and navamsa chakras are referred.

>>

>> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document;

> as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts

> and aspects therein.

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>> ************************************************

>>

>>>

>>> vijayadas_pradeep

>>> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

>>>

>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> Quarter/Half

>>> aspects

>>>

>>> Dear Prafulla ji

>>>

>>> The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

>>> check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

>>> mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

>>> etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are

> non-

>>> full aspects in rashi chart.

>>>

>>> Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji

> too

>>> had given similr explanations.

>>>

>>> Regds

>>> Pradeep

>>>

>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>

>>>> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma

> has

>>> given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> aspecting

>>> venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

>>> reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

>>>>

>>>> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current

> age

>>> scholars !!

>>>>

>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>

>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>> ************************************************

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> jyotish@

>>>>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

>>>>>

>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>

>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>

>>>>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment,

> be

>>>>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

>>> application

>>>>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

>>>>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

>>>>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

>>> jyotish.

>>>>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

>>> then at

>>>>> least, I will hear with open mind.

>>>>>

>>>>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> commentaries -

>>> but my

>>>>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

>>> of " less read

>>>>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

>>> KN Rao /

>>>>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

>>> not " pretend " to

>>>>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> business "

>>> with my

>>>>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

>>> quality

>>>>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

>>>>>

>>>>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

>>>>>

>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>

>>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every

> one

>>> is

>>>>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

>>> chance

>>>>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

>>> argument is

>>>>>> right.

>>>>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

>>> you

>>>>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

>>> understand

>>>>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> someone

>>> who

>>>>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>

>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

>>>>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

>>> any

>>>>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must

> not

>>>>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

>>>>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

>>>>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

>>>>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

>>> must

>>>>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

>>>>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

>>>>>> relevance.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> right

>>> to

>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

>>> like

>>>>>> D1

>>>>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

>>>>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

>>> planets

>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>> Navamasa "

>>>>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

>>> are

>>>>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

>>> sages;

>>>>>> If

>>>>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

>>> chart

>>>>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

>>> can be

>>>>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

>>> right

>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

>>> chart

>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

>>> it

>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> amsas

>>> due

>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

>>> importance.

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

>>> (There

>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

>>> as

>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> means

>>>>>> that.

>>>>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

>>>>>> wrong

>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> mix the two.

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But

> yes

>>>>>>>> yoga in

>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

>>> is

>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict

> the

>>>>>>>> result

>>>>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

>>>>>>>> applicable

>>>>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

>>> considered

>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

>>> aspect

>>>>>> or

>>>>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

>>> chart.

>>>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy

> Seetharama

>>>>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

>>> chart

>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

>>> so

>>>>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

>>> what

>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

>>>>>>>>>>> important.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

>>> as

>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

>>> chart, it

>>>>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

>>> equal

>>>>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

>>> What I

>>>>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> importance?

>>>>>> What

>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

>>> varga

>>>>>>>>>>> charts!

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,

>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both

> of

>>>>>>>>>>>> your

>>>>>>>>>>>> contributions.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> valuable

>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs

>>>>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

>>> alone

>>>>>>>>>>>> most

>>>>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

>>>>>>>>>>>> approaches

>>>>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

>>> valuable;

>>>>>>>>>>>> at the

>>>>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart (of

>>>>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

> since

>>>>>>>>>>>> any of

>>>>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> several

>>>>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

>>> viewed

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

>>>>>>>>>>>> confirming

>>>>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

>>> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

>>> checking

>>>>>>>>>>>> some

>>>>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should

> be

>>>>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence

> at

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

>>> Rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house

> in

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it

> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> condiered

>>>>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi.

> Why

>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

>>> though

>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

>>>>>>>>>>>> positioning

>>>>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

>>> it;

>>>>>>>>>>>> means,

>>>>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> weakest

>>>>>>>>>>>> point for

>>>>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

>>>>>>>>>>>> strength

>>>>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> strengths

>>> for

>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>> position

>>>>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>> them

>>>>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> same

>>>>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

>>> but

>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that

> it

>>> can

>>>>>>>>>>>> be

>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

>>> given

>>>>>>>>>>>> by the

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

>>>>>>>>>>>> observed

>>>>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> 12th

>>>>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

>>>>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> Chandra)

>>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa

> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> brought

>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>> my life

>>>>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

>>> lagna

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

>>>>>>>>>>>> here; I am

>>>>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

>>> says.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is

> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> the 4th

>>>>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> traditional

>>>>>>>>>>>> education).

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> summarize

>>>>>>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

>>>>>>>>>>>> isolation of

>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

>>>>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar

>>>>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

> Rao.

>>>>>>>>>>>> First

>>>>>>>>>>>> there is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

>>> it

>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps

>>>>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

>>>>>>>>>>>> astrological

>>>>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> context that

>>>>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha

> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> karakamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

>>>>>>>>>>>> parameters.

>>>>>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation

>>>>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of

> mine

>>>>>>>>>>>> if he

>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> results

>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated on

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> potential

>>>>>>>>>>>> promised by

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

>>> materialize. I

>>>>>>>>>>>> hope

>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion on

>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it

> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> worth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha

> has

>>>>>>>>>>>> one

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

>>>>>>>>>>>> shlokas

>>>>>>>>>>>> which

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

>>>>>>>>>>>> point.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> answer and

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

>>> proper

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>

> ____________________

>>>>>>>>>> ______________

>>>>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

>>>>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> previews

>>> at

>>>>>>>>>> Games.

>>>>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

July 7, 2007

Dear Pradeep Ji,

My reply Part II

reference quarter / helf aspects etc - what about opposition in D9? In rashi

Venus / Sun or Sun / Mercury may not always qualify for even partial aspects -

so then, how do we read kalyan Varma's shloka?

The similiar references are also given in Deva keralam (I do not have it handy -

as I have lent to some one), but members may search through - and may find so

many such references of angular / trine positions of planets in Navamsa Chakra.

Deva Keralam is not prescribing any partial aspects (as BPHS or Kalyan Varma).

Members may even refer the works of Shri CS Patel. I do not think that - (for

the sake of assumption) like late Santhanam in Deva keralam, Shri KN Rao in his

books, Shri Rath in his books - Shri CS patel has also throroughly missed the

vital interpretation mode of Navamsa - as not as independent chart and / or

aspects therein.

I quoted reference from Satyacharya's - and he has used this heavily in

interpretation clues of dasha results (specially mutual position of MD lord and

AD lord in D9). and These references are tested by many astrolgoers over the

period for predictive success.

Again - i must repeat, Any method (new or old) must be seen in application - not

verbatim. and I look forward to learn it through this forum, if my following of

the generally accepted principle is proven incorrect in predictive application.

regards / Prafulla Gang

" Men who never get carried away should be. "

************************************************

>

> vijayadas_pradeep

> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 23:43:46 -0000

>

> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?Quarter/Half

> aspects

>

> Dear Prafulla ji

>

> If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

> talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

> chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in Dashadhayayi.Moreover

> Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

> chandranavmshaka rashi.

>

> Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by sagelike

> figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not english

> translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit with

> clear reeference to rashi.

>

> Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

> rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

> reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

>

> So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can only

> be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha rashi.Whether you

> see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka rashi,they are

> both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no amiguity

> at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Pradeep,

>>

>> many thanks for your pointer.

>>

>> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali

> and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

>>

>> I quote another reference:

>> Satyacharya:

>> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the

> navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> (conveyances). "

>>

>> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in

> transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred

> and navamsa chakras are referred.

>>

>> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document;

> as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts

> and aspects therein.

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>> ************************************************

>>

>>>

>>> vijayadas_pradeep

>>> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

>>>

>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> Quarter/Half

>>> aspects

>>>

>>> Dear Prafulla ji

>>>

>>> The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

>>> check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

>>> mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

>>> etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are

> non-

>>> full aspects in rashi chart.

>>>

>>> Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji

> too

>>> had given similr explanations.

>>>

>>> Regds

>>> Pradeep

>>>

>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>

>>>> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma

> has

>>> given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> aspecting

>>> venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

>>> reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

>>>>

>>>> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current

> age

>>> scholars !!

>>>>

>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>

>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>> ************************************************

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> jyotish@

>>>>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

>>>>>

>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>

>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>

>>>>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment,

> be

>>>>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

>>> application

>>>>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

>>>>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

>>>>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

>>> jyotish.

>>>>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

>>> then at

>>>>> least, I will hear with open mind.

>>>>>

>>>>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> commentaries -

>>> but my

>>>>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

>>> of " less read

>>>>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

>>> KN Rao /

>>>>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

>>> not " pretend " to

>>>>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> business "

>>> with my

>>>>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

>>> quality

>>>>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

>>>>>

>>>>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

>>>>>

>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>

>>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every

> one

>>> is

>>>>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

>>> chance

>>>>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

>>> argument is

>>>>>> right.

>>>>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

>>> you

>>>>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

>>> understand

>>>>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> someone

>>> who

>>>>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>

>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

>>>>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

>>> any

>>>>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must

> not

>>>>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

>>>>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

>>>>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

>>>>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

>>> must

>>>>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

>>>>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

>>>>>> relevance.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> http://www.prafulla.net

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> right

>>> to

>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

>>> like

>>>>>> D1

>>>>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

>>>>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

>>> planets

>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>> Navamasa "

>>>>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

>>> are

>>>>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

>>> sages;

>>>>>> If

>>>>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

>>> chart

>>>>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

>>> can be

>>>>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

>>> right

>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

>>> chart

>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

>>> it

>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> amsas

>>> due

>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

>>> importance.

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

>>> (There

>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

>>> as

>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> means

>>>>>> that.

>>>>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

>>>>>> wrong

>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> mix the two.

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But

> yes

>>>>>>>> yoga in

>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

>>> is

>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict

> the

>>>>>>>> result

>>>>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

>>>>>>>> applicable

>>>>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

>>> considered

>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

>>> aspect

>>>>>> or

>>>>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

>>> chart.

>>>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy

> Seetharama

>>>>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

>>> chart

>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

>>> so

>>>>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

>>> what

>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

>>>>>>>>>>> important.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

>>> as

>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

>>> chart, it

>>>>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

>>> equal

>>>>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

>>> What I

>>>>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> importance?

>>>>>> What

>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

>>> varga

>>>>>>>>>>> charts!

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,

>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both

> of

>>>>>>>>>>>> your

>>>>>>>>>>>> contributions.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> valuable

>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs

>>>>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

>>> alone

>>>>>>>>>>>> most

>>>>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

>>>>>>>>>>>> approaches

>>>>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

>>> valuable;

>>>>>>>>>>>> at the

>>>>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart (of

>>>>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

> since

>>>>>>>>>>>> any of

>>>>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> several

>>>>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

>>> viewed

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

>>>>>>>>>>>> confirming

>>>>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

>>> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

>>> checking

>>>>>>>>>>>> some

>>>>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should

> be

>>>>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence

> at

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

>>> Rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house

> in

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it

> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> condiered

>>>>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi.

> Why

>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

>>> though

>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

>>>>>>>>>>>> positioning

>>>>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

>>> it;

>>>>>>>>>>>> means,

>>>>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> weakest

>>>>>>>>>>>> point for

>>>>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

>>>>>>>>>>>> strength

>>>>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> strengths

>>> for

>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>> position

>>>>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>> them

>>>>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> same

>>>>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

>>> but

>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that

> it

>>> can

>>>>>>>>>>>> be

>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

>>> given

>>>>>>>>>>>> by the

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

>>>>>>>>>>>> observed

>>>>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> 12th

>>>>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

>>>>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> Chandra)

>>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa

> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> brought

>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>> my life

>>>>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

>>> lagna

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

>>>>>>>>>>>> here; I am

>>>>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

>>> says.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is

> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> the 4th

>>>>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> traditional

>>>>>>>>>>>> education).

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> summarize

>>>>>>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

>>>>>>>>>>>> isolation of

>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

>>>>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar

>>>>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

> Rao.

>>>>>>>>>>>> First

>>>>>>>>>>>> there is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

>>> it

>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps

>>>>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

>>>>>>>>>>>> astrological

>>>>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> context that

>>>>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha

> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> karakamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

>>>>>>>>>>>> parameters.

>>>>>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation

>>>>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of

> mine

>>>>>>>>>>>> if he

>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> results

>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated on

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> potential

>>>>>>>>>>>> promised by

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

>>> materialize. I

>>>>>>>>>>>> hope

>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion on

>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it

> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> worth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha

> has

>>>>>>>>>>>> one

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

>>>>>>>>>>>> shlokas

>>>>>>>>>>>> which

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

>>>>>>>>>>>> point.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> answer and

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

>>> proper

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>

> ____________________

>>>>>>>>>> ______________

>>>>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

>>>>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> previews

>>> at

>>>>>>>>>> Games.

>>>>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

July 7, 2007

Raja, every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Do not cling to the past and form pre-conceived rigid

unchangeable notions about anyone. Give a chance to

everyone to breath.

In this thread Sreenadh was the first to talk personal and

attack me. Why ? Search for the reason. He crumbled under

little arguments on astrology.Is this how astrologers are

supposed to behave. Why was personal talk done on me ?

Why was this lecture and the way of handling not given

to Sreenadh, instead of me ? Where were you all sleeping

that time, when he attacked me ?

then you too started without provocation.

Live and let live please.

, " Raja Gursahani "

<rajagursahani wrote:

>

> do you see what is happening. when are we going to start talking

properly

> here. I mean this a great science don't get me wrong but the way

people are

> arguing it is getting outrageous. Bhaskar you have made many attempts to

> antagonize people. If you are so worthy with your knowledge then

form your

> own group and have them be your loyal students or subjects.

otherwise please

> refrain from this abusive language. you in the past mentioned that

you are

> leaving the group and I felt that was best. well now that you are

back you

> see what has been started. we look really bad in this group. I am saying

> really bad. I told you chandrashekharji was a great astrologer its

not just

> his predictions but it's the way he handles himself despite all these

> differences and misunderstandings. now if you need to go on like

this you

> have plenty of documented words to have you banished for good. I

mean the

> problem here is that you feel you have to right to use such abusive

> language. but to be honest every word you say can now be used

against you.

> the moderator will make sure of this.

>

> sincerely,

>

> __________

>

> Raja G. Gursahani

> *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

>

July 7, 2007

Dear Prafulla ji

I was not talking about shri Ranjans view.

Shri Ranjan too had this doubt (aspects sun/venus etc) and

Chandrashekhar ji corrected him.

If you can give sanskrit shlokas all can chack -not only me any

scholar.If you rememer when me and shri Narasimha were discussing he

could only give Lagna shadvargake as example.Thus you can think.

Also you can ask anyone if a chart is needed to know about amsha

transits.Even if you see 3.2 degree sector or the corresponding root

rashi,they are in rashi chakra.

Regds

Pradeep

, Prafulla Gang <jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> many thanks for your pointer.

>

> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali

and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

>

> I quote another reference:

> Satyacharya:

> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the

navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

(conveyances). "

>

> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in

transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred

and navamsa chakras are referred.

>

> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document;

as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts

and aspects therein.

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> ************************************************

>

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> >

> > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

Quarter/Half

> > aspects

> >

> > Dear Prafulla ji

> >

> > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

> > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

> > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

> > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are

non-

> > full aspects in rashi chart.

> >

> > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji

too

> > had given similr explanations.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> >>

> >> Dear Pradeep,

> >>

> >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma

has

> > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

aspecting

> > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

> > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> >>

> >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current

age

> > scholars !!

> >>

> >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >> http://www.prafulla.net

> >>

> >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >> ************************************************

> >>

> >>>

> >>> jyotish@

> >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> >>>

> >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>

> >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> >>>

> >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment,

be

> >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> > application

> >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

> >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

> >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

> > jyotish.

> >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

> > then at

> >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> >>>

> >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

commentaries -

> > but my

> >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> > of " less read

> >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

> > KN Rao /

> >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > not " pretend " to

> >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

business "

> > with my

> >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

> > quality

> >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> >>>

> >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> >>>

> >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>> http://www.prafulla.net

> >>>

> >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >>> ************************************************

> >>>

> >>>>

> >>>> sreesog@

> >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> >>>>

> >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>

> >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every

one

> > is

> >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

> > chance

> >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> > argument is

> >>>> right.

> >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

> > you

> >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > understand

> >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

someone

> > who

> >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> >>>> Love,

> >>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>

> >>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>> wrote:

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

> >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

> > any

> >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must

not

> >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

> >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

> >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

> > must

> >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

> >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

> >>>> relevance.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

right

> > to

> >>>> be taken seriously. "

> >>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

> > like

> >>>> D1

> >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> > planets

> >>>> in

> >>>>>> Navamasa "

> >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

> > are

> >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> > sages;

> >>>> If

> >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>>>> wrote:

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

> > chart

> >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

> > can be

> >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> > right

> >>>> to

> >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> >>>>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

> > chart

> >>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

> > it

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

amsas

> > due

> >>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

overall

> >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

> > the

> >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > importance.

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> > like

> >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

> > (There

> >>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> > as

> >>>> if

> >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

means

> >>>> that.

> >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

> >>>> wrong

> >>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> >>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> >>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But

yes

> >>>>>> yoga in

> >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

> > is

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict

the

> >>>>>> result

> >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

> >>>>>> applicable

> >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > considered

> >>>> in

> >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

> > aspect

> >>>> or

> >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

> > chart.

> >>>>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy

Seetharama

> >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

> > the

> >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

> > chart

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

> > so

> >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

> > what

> >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

> >>>>>>>>> important.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

overall

> >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> > like

> >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> > as

> >>>> if

> >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> > chart, it

> >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

> > equal

> >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

> > What I

> >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

importance?

> >>>> What

> >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

> > varga

> >>>>>>>>> charts!

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both

of

> >>>>>>>>>> your

> >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

valuable

> >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

> > like

> >>>>>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

> > alone

> >>>>>>>>>> most

> >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

> >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > valuable;

> >>>>>>>>>> at the

> >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

separate

> >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

since

> >>>>>>>>>> any of

> >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

> > Rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

> > chart

> >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

several

> >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

> > viewed

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

> >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> > separate

> >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> > checking

> >>>>>>>>>> some

> >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in

the

> >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should

be

> >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence

at

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

> > Rasi.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house

in

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it

is

> >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi.

Why

> > is

> >>>>>>>>>> this

> >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

> > though

> >>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

> > it;

> >>>>>>>>>> means,

> >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

weakest

> >>>>>>>>>> point for

> >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

> >>>>>>>>>> strength

> >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

strengths

> > for

> >>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

navamsa

> >>>>>>>>>> position

> >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both

the

> >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

> > of

> >>>>>>>>>> them

> >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give

the

> >>>>>>>>>> same

> >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

> > but

> >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that

it

> > can

> >>>>>>>>>> be

> >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

> > given

> >>>>>>>>>> by the

> >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

> >>>>>>>>>> observed

> >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in

the

> >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

> >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

Chandra)

> >>>>>>>>>> and

> >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa

is

> >>>>>>>>>> brought

> >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

> > of

> >>>>>>>>>> my life

> >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

> > lagna

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

> >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

> > says.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

> > Rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is

in

> >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

> > and

> >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

traditional

> >>>>>>>>>> education).

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

summarize

> >>>>>>>>>> that

> >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

> >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar

> >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

Rao.

> >>>>>>>>>> First

> >>>>>>>>>> there is

> >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

> > it

> >>>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

> >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>> context that

> >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha

and

> >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

> >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

karakamsha

> >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

> >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> >>>>>>>>>> I

> >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

> >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of

mine

> >>>>>>>>>> if he

> >>>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

results

> >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

potential

> >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

> >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > materialize. I

> >>>>>>>>>> hope

> >>>>>>>>>> this

> >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> >>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it

is

> >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to

the

> >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha

has

> >>>>>>>>>> one

> >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to

the

> >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> >>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

> >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> >>>>>>>>>> which

> >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

> >>>>>>>>>> point.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

> > the

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

> > proper

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>

> >

____________________

> >>>>>>>> ______________

> >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

previews

> > at

> >>>>>>>> Games.

> >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

July 7, 2007

Dear Pradeep,

I do not know whether you have read Chandrakalanadi Sanskrit shlokas,

but the reference to transit identical with the amshas of the

navamshesha of a bhava lord is clearly given therein. So Prafulla is right.

For the record, Garga was not considered sage like but was a sage well

respected by even Parashara himself.

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Prafulla ji

>

> If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

> talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

> chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in Dashadhayayi.Moreover

> Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

> chandranavmshaka rashi.

>

> Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by sagelike

> figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not english

> translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit with

> clear reeference to rashi.

>

> Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

> rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

> reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

>

> So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can only

> be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha rashi.Whether you

> see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka rashi,they are

> both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no amiguity

> at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > many thanks for your pointer.

> >

> > Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali

> and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> >

> > I quote another reference:

> > Satyacharya:

> > " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the

> navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> (conveyances). "

> >

> > There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in

> transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred

> and navamsa chakras are referred.

> >

> > BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document;

> as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts

> and aspects therein.

> >

> > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> >

> > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > ************************************************

> >

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep

> > > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> > >

> <%40>

> > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> Quarter/Half

> > > aspects

> > >

> > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > >

> > > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

> > > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

> > > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

> > > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are

> non-

> > > full aspects in rashi chart.

> > >

> > > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji

> too

> > > had given similr explanations.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > >>

> > >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma

> has

> > > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> aspecting

> > > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

> > > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> > >>

> > >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current

> age

> > > scholars !!

> > >>

> > >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > >>

> > >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > >> ************************************************

> > >>

> > >>>

> > >>> jyotish@

> > >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> > >>>

> <%40>

> > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> > >>>

> > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > >>>

> > >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment,

> be

> > >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> > > application

> > >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

> > >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

> > >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

> > > jyotish.

> > >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

> > > then at

> > >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> > >>>

> > >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> commentaries -

> > > but my

> > >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> > > of " less read

> > >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

> > > KN Rao /

> > >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > > not " pretend " to

> > >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> business "

> > > with my

> > >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

> > > quality

> > >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> > >>>

> > >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> > >>>

> > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > >>>

> > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > >>> ************************************************

> > >>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>> sreesog@

> > >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> > >>>>

> <%40>

> > >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every

> one

> > > is

> > >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

> > > chance

> > >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> > > argument is

> > >>>> right.

> > >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

> > > you

> > >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > > understand

> > >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> someone

> > > who

> > >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> > >>>> Love,

> > >>>> Sreenadh

> > >>>>

> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > >>>> wrote:

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

> > >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

> > > any

> > >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must

> not

> > >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

> > >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

> > >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> > >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

> > > must

> > >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

> > >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

> > >>>> relevance.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> right

> > > to

> > >>>> be taken seriously. "

> > >>>>> ************************************************

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> sreesog@

> > >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> > >>>>>>

> <%40>

> > >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

> > > like

> > >>>> D1

> > >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> > >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> > > planets

> > >>>> in

> > >>>>>> Navamasa "

> > >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

> > > are

> > >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> > > sages;

> > >>>> If

> > >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> Love,

> > >>>>>> Sreenadh

> > >>>>>>

> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > >>>>>> wrote:

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

> > > chart

> > >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

> > > can be

> > >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> > > right

> > >>>> to

> > >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> > >>>>>>> ************************************************

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> > >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> > >>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> > >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

> > > chart

> > >>>>>> is

> > >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

> > > it

> > >>>> is

> > >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> amsas

> > > due

> > >>>>>> to

> > >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

> > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > > importance.

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> > > like

> > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

> > > (There

> > >>>>>> is

> > >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> > > as

> > >>>> if

> > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> means

> > >>>> that.

> > >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

> > >>>> wrong

> > >>>>>> to

> > >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But

> yes

> > >>>>>> yoga in

> > >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

> > > is

> > >>>> the

> > >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict

> the

> > >>>>>> result

> > >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

> > >>>>>> applicable

> > >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > > considered

> > >>>> in

> > >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

> > > aspect

> > >>>> or

> > >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

> > > chart.

> > >>>>>>>> Love,

> > >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> > >>>>>>>>

> <%40>, Krishnamurthy

> Seetharama

> > >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

> > > chart

> > >>>> is

> > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

> > > so

> > >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

> > > what

> > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

> > >>>>>>>>> important.

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

> > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> > > like

> > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> > > as

> > >>>> if

> > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> > > chart, it

> > >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

> > > equal

> > >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

> > > What I

> > >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> importance?

> > >>>> What

> > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

> > > varga

> > >>>>>>>>> charts!

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> > >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both

> of

> > >>>>>>>>>> your

> > >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> valuable

> > >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> > >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

> > > like

> > >>>>>>>>>> to

> > >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

> > > alone

> > >>>>>>>>>> most

> > >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

> > >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> > >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > > valuable;

> > >>>>>>>>>> at the

> > >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> separate

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> > >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

> since

> > >>>>>>>>>> any of

> > >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

> > > Rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

> > > chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> several

> > >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

> > > viewed

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

> > >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> > >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> > > separate

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> > > checking

> > >>>>>>>>>> some

> > >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should

> be

> > >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence

> at

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

> > > Rasi.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house

> in

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it

> is

> > >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> > >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi.

> Why

> > > is

> > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

> > > though

> > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> > >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> > >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

> > > it;

> > >>>>>>>>>> means,

> > >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> weakest

> > >>>>>>>>>> point for

> > >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

> > >>>>>>>>>> strength

> > >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> strengths

> > > for

> > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> navamsa

> > >>>>>>>>>> position

> > >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> > >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

> > > of

> > >>>>>>>>>> them

> > >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> same

> > >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

> > > but

> > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that

> it

> > > can

> > >>>>>>>>>> be

> > >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

> > > given

> > >>>>>>>>>> by the

> > >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

> rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

> > >>>>>>>>>> observed

> > >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> > >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

> rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

> > >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> > >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> Chandra)

> > >>>>>>>>>> and

> > >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa

> is

> > >>>>>>>>>> brought

> > >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

> > > of

> > >>>>>>>>>> my life

> > >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

> > > lagna

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

> > >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> > >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

> > > says.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

> > > Rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is

> in

> > >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> > >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

> > > and

> > >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> traditional

> > >>>>>>>>>> education).

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> summarize

> > >>>>>>>>>> that

> > >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

> > >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> > >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> > >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

> Rao.

> > >>>>>>>>>> First

> > >>>>>>>>>> there is

> > >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

> > > it

> > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> > >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

> > >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> > >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> context that

> > >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha

> and

> > >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

> > >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> > >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> karakamsha

> > >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> > >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

> > >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> > >>>>>>>>>> I

> > >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

> > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> > >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of

> mine

> > >>>>>>>>>> if he

> > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> results

> > >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> > >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> potential

> > >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> > >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

> > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > > materialize. I

> > >>>>>>>>>> hope

> > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> > >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it

> is

> > >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> > >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha

> has

> > >>>>>>>>>> one

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

> > >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> > >>>>>>>>>> which

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

> > >>>>>>>>>> point.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

> > > proper

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>

> > >

> ________

> > >>>>>>>> ______________

> > >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> > >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> previews

> > > at

> > >>>>>>>> Games.

> > >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear Chandrersekhar ji and Pradeep ji,

Many thanks for refrence. Since, i do not have Deva keralam handy with me right

now - I am not in position to quote specific shloka. But over the periods, I do

not know - if anyone has doubted the relevance of Chandra kala nadi.

Well, a small reference on garga - I recently heard that, many scholars have

linked him to Jain astrology (just because Garga was Jain Saint). No - jainism

does not have its explored Jyotish for natal readings) - though the references

are there for constellations and spcific significance in its literature.

regards / Prafulla Gang

>> <http://videogames./platform?platform=120121>

" Men who never get carried away should be. "

************************************************

>

> chandrashekhar46

> Sun, 08 Jul 2007 00:45:08 +0530

>

> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?Quarter/Half

> aspects

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I do not know whether you have read Chandrakalanadi Sanskrit shlokas,

> but the reference to transit identical with the amshas of the

> navamshesha of a bhava lord is clearly given therein. So Prafulla is

> right.

>

> For the record, Garga was not considered sage like but was a sage well

> respected by even Parashara himself.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>>

>> Dear Prafulla ji

>>

>> If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

>> talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

>> chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in Dashadhayayi.Moreover

>> Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

>> chandranavmshaka rashi.

>>

>> Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by sagelike

>> figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not english

>> translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit with

>> clear reeference to rashi.

>>

>> Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

>> rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

>> reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

>>

>> So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can only

>> be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha rashi.Whether you

>> see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka rashi,they are

>> both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no amiguity

>> at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

>>

>> Regds

>> Pradeep

>>

>> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish

>> wrote:

>>>

>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>

>>> many thanks for your pointer.

>>>

>>> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

>> referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali

>> and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

>> carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

>>>

>>> I quote another reference:

>>> Satyacharya:

>>> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the

>> navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

>> (conveyances). "

>>>

>>> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in

>> transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred

>> and navamsa chakras are referred.

>>>

>>> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document;

>> as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts

>> and aspects therein.

>>>

>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

>>>

>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>> ************************************************

>>>

>>>>

>>>> vijayadas_pradeep

>>>> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

>>>>

>> <%40>

>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>> Quarter/Half

>>>> aspects

>>>>

>>>> Dear Prafulla ji

>>>>

>>>> The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

>>>> check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

>>>> mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

>>>> etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are

>> non-

>>>> full aspects in rashi chart.

>>>>

>>>> Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji

>> too

>>>> had given similr explanations.

>>>>

>>>> Regds

>>>> Pradeep

>>>>

>> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>>

>>>>> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma

>> has

>>>> given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

>> aspecting

>>>> venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

>>>> reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

>>>>>

>>>>> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current

>> age

>>>> scholars !!

>>>>>

>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

>>>>>

>>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> jyotish@

>>>>>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

>>>>>>

>> <%40>

>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment,

>> be

>>>>>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

>>>> application

>>>>>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

>>>>>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

>>>>>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

>>>> jyotish.

>>>>>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

>>>> then at

>>>>>> least, I will hear with open mind.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

>> commentaries -

>>>> but my

>>>>>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

>>>> of " less read

>>>>>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

>>>> KN Rao /

>>>>>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

>>>> not " pretend " to

>>>>>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

>> business "

>>>> with my

>>>>>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

>>>> quality

>>>>>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

>>>>>>>

>> <%40>

>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every

>> one

>>>> is

>>>>>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

>>>> chance

>>>>>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

>>>> argument is

>>>>>>> right.

>>>>>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

>>>> you

>>>>>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

>>>> understand

>>>>>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

>> someone

>>>> who

>>>>>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>

>> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

>>>>>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

>>>> any

>>>>>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must

>> not

>>>>>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

>>>>>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

>>>>>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

>>>>>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

>>>> must

>>>>>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

>>>>>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

>>>>>>> relevance.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

>> right

>>>> to

>>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

>>>>>>>>>

>> <%40>

>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

>>>> like

>>>>>>> D1

>>>>>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

>>>>>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

>>>> planets

>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>> Navamasa "

>>>>>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

>>>> are

>>>>>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

>>>> sages;

>>>>>>> If

>>>>>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>>

>> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

>>>> can be

>>>>>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

>>>> right

>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

>>>>>>>>>>>

>> <%40>

>>>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

>> important?

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

>>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

>>>> it

>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

>> amsas

>>>> due

>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

>> overall

>>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

>>>> importance.

>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

>>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

>>>> (There

>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

>>>> as

>>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

>> means

>>>>>>> that.

>>>>>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

>>>>>>> wrong

>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>> mix the two.

>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But

>> yes

>>>>>>>>> yoga in

>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

>>>> is

>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict

>> the

>>>>>>>>> result

>>>>>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

>>>>>>>>> applicable

>>>>>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

>>>> considered

>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

>>>> aspect

>>>>>>> or

>>>>>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

>>>> chart.

>>>>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>>>>

>> <%40>, Krishnamurthy

>> Seetharama

>>>>>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

>>>> chart

>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

>>>> so

>>>>>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

>>>> what

>>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

>>>>>>>>>>>> important.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

>> overall

>>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

>>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

>>>> as

>>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

>>>> chart, it

>>>>>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

>>>> equal

>>>>>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

>>>> What I

>>>>>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

>> importance?

>>>>>>> What

>>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

>>>> varga

>>>>>>>>>>>> charts!

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,

>>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both

>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> your

>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributions.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

>> valuable

>>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs

>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

>>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

>>>> alone

>>>>>>>>>>>>> most

>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> approaches

>>>>>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

>>>> valuable;

>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

>> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart (of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

>> since

>>>>>>>>>>>>> any of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

>>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

>> several

>>>>>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

>>>> viewed

>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

>>>>>>>>>>>>> confirming

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

>>>> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

>>>> checking

>>>>>>>>>>>>> some

>>>>>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in

>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should

>> be

>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence

>> at

>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

>>>> Rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house

>> in

>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it

>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> condiered

>>>>>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi.

>> Why

>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

>>>> though

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

>>>>>>>>>>>>> positioning

>>>>>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

>>>> it;

>>>>>>>>>>>>> means,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

>> weakest

>>>>>>>>>>>>> point for

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

>>>>>>>>>>>>> strength

>>>>>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

>> strengths

>>>> for

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

>> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>>> position

>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both

>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

>>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> them

>>>>>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give

>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> same

>>>>>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

>>>> but

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that

>> it

>>>> can

>>>>>>>>>>>>> be

>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

>>>> given

>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

>>>>>>>>>>>>> observed

>>>>>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in

>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12th

>>>>>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

>>>>>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

>> Chandra)

>>>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa

>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought

>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

>>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> my life

>>>>>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

>>>> lagna

>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

>>>>>>>>>>>>> here; I am

>>>>>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

>>>> says.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

>>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is

>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 4th

>>>>>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

>> traditional

>>>>>>>>>>>>> education).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

>> summarize

>>>>>>>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> isolation of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

>>>>>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

>> Rao.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> First

>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

>>>> it

>>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> astrological

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> context that

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha

>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

>> karakamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

>>>>>>>>>>>>> parameters.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of

>> mine

>>>>>>>>>>>>> if he

>>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

>> results

>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated on

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

>> potential

>>>>>>>>>>>>> promised by

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

>>>> materialize. I

>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope

>>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion on

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it

>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to

>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha

>> has

>>>>>>>>>>>>> one

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to

>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

>>>>>>>>>>>>> shlokas

>>>>>>>>>>>>> which

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

>>>>>>>>>>>>> point.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer and

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

>>>> proper

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>

>> ________

>>>>>>>>>>> ______________

>>>>>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

>> previews

>>>> at

>>>>>>>>>>> Games.

>>>>>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear pradeep

Please address me Prafulla - not " Prafulla ji " .

Well, I have serious limitation of quoting shloka from Deva keralam, as it is

not handy with me. But if you can access it, you can see it yourself.

Well, i am sure - that scholars like Shri Narasimha - would not have used D

charts (and reading it like rasi - of course with different rules or say special

rules) - without rationale. May be due to his preoccupation, he is not

participating on this thread.

regards / Prafulla Gang

" Men who never get carried away should be. "

************************************************

>

> vijayadas_pradeep

> Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:03:04 -0000

>

> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?Quarter/Half

> aspects

>

> Dear Prafulla ji

>

> I was not talking about shri Ranjans view.

> Shri Ranjan too had this doubt (aspects sun/venus etc) and

> Chandrashekhar ji corrected him.

>

> If you can give sanskrit shlokas all can chack -not only me any

> scholar.If you rememer when me and shri Narasimha were discussing he

> could only give Lagna shadvargake as example.Thus you can think.

>

> Also you can ask anyone if a chart is needed to know about amsha

> transits.Even if you see 3.2 degree sector or the corresponding root

> rashi,they are in rashi chakra.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Pradeep,

>>

>> many thanks for your pointer.

>>

>> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali

> and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

>>

>> I quote another reference:

>> Satyacharya:

>> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the

> navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> (conveyances). "

>>

>> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in

> transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred

> and navamsa chakras are referred.

>>

>> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document;

> as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts

> and aspects therein.

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>> ************************************************

>>

>>>

>>> vijayadas_pradeep

>>> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

>>>

>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> Quarter/Half

>>> aspects

>>>

>>> Dear Prafulla ji

>>>

>>> The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

>>> check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

>>> mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

>>> etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are

> non-

>>> full aspects in rashi chart.

>>>

>>> Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji

> too

>>> had given similr explanations.

>>>

>>> Regds

>>> Pradeep

>>>

>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>

>>>> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma

> has

>>> given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> aspecting

>>> venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

>>> reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

>>>>

>>>> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current

> age

>>> scholars !!

>>>>

>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>

>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>> ************************************************

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> jyotish@

>>>>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

>>>>>

>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>

>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>

>>>>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment,

> be

>>>>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

>>> application

>>>>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

>>>>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

>>>>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

>>> jyotish.

>>>>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

>>> then at

>>>>> least, I will hear with open mind.

>>>>>

>>>>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> commentaries -

>>> but my

>>>>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

>>> of " less read

>>>>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

>>> KN Rao /

>>>>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

>>> not " pretend " to

>>>>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> business "

>>> with my

>>>>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

>>> quality

>>>>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

>>>>>

>>>>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

>>>>>

>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>

>>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every

> one

>>> is

>>>>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

>>> chance

>>>>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

>>> argument is

>>>>>> right.

>>>>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

>>> you

>>>>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

>>> understand

>>>>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> someone

>>> who

>>>>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>

>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

>>>>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

>>> any

>>>>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must

> not

>>>>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

>>>>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

>>>>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

>>>>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

>>> must

>>>>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

>>>>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

>>>>>> relevance.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> right

>>> to

>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

>>> like

>>>>>> D1

>>>>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

>>>>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

>>> planets

>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>> Navamasa "

>>>>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

>>> are

>>>>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

>>> sages;

>>>>>> If

>>>>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

>>> chart

>>>>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

>>> can be

>>>>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

>>> right

>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

>>> chart

>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

>>> it

>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> amsas

>>> due

>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

>>> importance.

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

>>> (There

>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

>>> as

>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> means

>>>>>> that.

>>>>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

>>>>>> wrong

>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> mix the two.

>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But

> yes

>>>>>>>> yoga in

>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

>>> is

>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict

> the

>>>>>>>> result

>>>>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

>>>>>>>> applicable

>>>>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

>>> considered

>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

>>> aspect

>>>>>> or

>>>>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

>>> chart.

>>>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy

> Seetharama

>>>>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

>>> chart

>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

>>> so

>>>>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

>>> what

>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

>>>>>>>>>>> important.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

>>> as

>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

>>> chart, it

>>>>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

>>> equal

>>>>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

>>> What I

>>>>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> importance?

>>>>>> What

>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

>>> varga

>>>>>>>>>>> charts!

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,

>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both

> of

>>>>>>>>>>>> your

>>>>>>>>>>>> contributions.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> valuable

>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs

>>>>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

>>> alone

>>>>>>>>>>>> most

>>>>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

>>>>>>>>>>>> approaches

>>>>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

>>> valuable;

>>>>>>>>>>>> at the

>>>>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart (of

>>>>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

> since

>>>>>>>>>>>> any of

>>>>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> several

>>>>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

>>> viewed

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

>>>>>>>>>>>> confirming

>>>>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

>>> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

>>> checking

>>>>>>>>>>>> some

>>>>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should

> be

>>>>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence

> at

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

>>> Rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house

> in

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it

> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> condiered

>>>>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi.

> Why

>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

>>> though

>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

>>>>>>>>>>>> positioning

>>>>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

>>> it;

>>>>>>>>>>>> means,

>>>>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> weakest

>>>>>>>>>>>> point for

>>>>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

>>>>>>>>>>>> strength

>>>>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> strengths

>>> for

>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>> position

>>>>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>> them

>>>>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> same

>>>>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

>>> but

>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that

> it

>>> can

>>>>>>>>>>>> be

>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

>>> given

>>>>>>>>>>>> by the

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

>>>>>>>>>>>> observed

>>>>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> 12th

>>>>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

>>>>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> Chandra)

>>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa

> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> brought

>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>> my life

>>>>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

>>> lagna

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

>>>>>>>>>>>> here; I am

>>>>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

>>> says.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is

> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> the 4th

>>>>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> traditional

>>>>>>>>>>>> education).

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> summarize

>>>>>>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

>>>>>>>>>>>> isolation of

>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

>>>>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar

>>>>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

> Rao.

>>>>>>>>>>>> First

>>>>>>>>>>>> there is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

>>> it

>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps

>>>>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

>>>>>>>>>>>> astrological

>>>>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> context that

>>>>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha

> and

>>>>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation of

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> karakamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

>>>>>>>>>>>> parameters.

>>>>>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation

>>>>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of

> mine

>>>>>>>>>>>> if he

>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> results

>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated on

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> potential

>>>>>>>>>>>> promised by

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

>>> materialize. I

>>>>>>>>>>>> hope

>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion on

>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it

> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> worth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha

> has

>>>>>>>>>>>> one

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to

> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

>>>>>>>>>>>> shlokas

>>>>>>>>>>>> which

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

>>>>>>>>>>>> point.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> answer and

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

>>> proper

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>

> ____________________

>>>>>>>>>> ______________

>>>>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

>>>>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> previews

>>> at

>>>>>>>>>> Games.

>>>>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear Pradeep,

further to my earlier note:

RR's opinion personally matters to me - because, I rate him highly.

But his opinion (from the article quoted) and other articles

(specially the navamsha route for sade sati rationale) do not hint

that, he disapproves D9 chakra (as you have contested).

Well, I am not experienced with Shri Chandrasekhar ji's writings

much as yet, so am not competent to comment on his predictive model

(in conformity with your point of view).

regards / Prafulla

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Prafulla ji

>

> I was not talking about shri Ranjans view.

> Shri Ranjan too had this doubt (aspects sun/venus etc) and

> Chandrashekhar ji corrected him.

>

> If you can give sanskrit shlokas all can chack -not only me any

> scholar.If you rememer when me and shri Narasimha were discussing

he

> could only give Lagna shadvargake as example.Thus you can think.

>

> Also you can ask anyone if a chart is needed to know about amsha

> transits.Even if you see 3.2 degree sector or the corresponding

root

> rashi,they are in rashi chakra.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > many thanks for your pointer.

> >

> > Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in

Saravali

> and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> >

> > I quote another reference:

> > Satyacharya:

> > " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in

the

> navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> (conveyances). "

> >

> > There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart

in

> transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are

referred

> and navamsa chakras are referred.

> >

> > BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology

document;

> as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D

charts

> and aspects therein.

> >

> > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > http://www.prafulla.net

> >

> > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > ************************************************

> >

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> > >

> > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> Quarter/Half

> > > aspects

> > >

> > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > >

> > > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in

Rashis.Please

> > > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma

clearly

> > > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

> > > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these

are

> non-

> > > full aspects in rashi chart.

> > >

> > > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar

ji

> too

> > > had given similr explanations.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > >>

> > >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan

Varma

> has

> > > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> aspecting

> > > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the

obvious

> > > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> > >>

> > >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with

current

> age

> > > scholars !!

> > >>

> > >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >> http://www.prafulla.net

> > >>

> > >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > >> ************************************************

> > >>

> > >>>

> > >>> jyotish@

> > >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> > >>>

> > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> > >>>

> > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > >>>

> > >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making

comment,

> be

> > >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> > > application

> > >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the

wrong

> > >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct

way).

> > >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance

in

> > > jyotish.

> > >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case

studies -

> > > then at

> > >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> > >>>

> > >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> commentaries -

> > > but my

> > >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> > > of " less read

> > >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam /

Shri

> > > KN Rao /

> > >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > > not " pretend " to

> > >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> business "

> > > with my

> > >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

> > > quality

> > >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> > >>>

> > >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> > >>>

> > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >>> http://www.prafulla.net

> > >>>

> > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > >>> ************************************************

> > >>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>> sreesog@

> > >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts

every

> one

> > > is

> > >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is

every

> > > chance

> > >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> > > argument is

> > >>>> right.

> > >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice -

when

> > > you

> > >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > > understand

> > >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> someone

> > > who

> > >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> > >>>> Love,

> > >>>> Sreenadh

> > >>>>

> > >>>> , Prafulla Gang

<jyotish@>

> > >>>> wrote:

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

> > >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not

been

> > > any

> > >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts

must

> not

> > >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

> > >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

> > >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> > >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the

people -

> > > must

> > >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

> > >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have

any

> > >>>> relevance.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> right

> > > to

> > >>>> be taken seriously. "

> > >>>>> ************************************************

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> sreesog@

> > >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not

chart) " just

> > > like

> > >>>> D1

> > >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> > >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> > > planets

> > >>>> in

> > >>>>>> Navamasa "

> > >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when

planets

> > > are

> > >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> > > sages;

> > >>>> If

> > >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> Love,

> > >>>>>> Sreenadh

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> , Prafulla Gang

<jyotish@>

> > >>>>>> wrote:

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

> > > chart

> > >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9

charts -

> > > can be

> > >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1

chart.

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> > > right

> > >>>> to

> > >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> > >>>>>>> ************************************************

> > >>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> > >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa.

Navamsa

> > > chart

> > >>>>>> is

> > >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be,

because

> > > it

> > >>>> is

> > >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> amsas

> > > due

> > >>>>>> to

> > >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

> > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the

strength of

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > > importance.

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

chart

> > > like

> > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in

Navamsa.

> > > (There

> > >>>>>> is

> > >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

treated

> > > as

> > >>>> if

> > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> means

> > >>>> that.

> > >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that.

It is

> > >>>> wrong

> > >>>>>> to

> > >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

well?

> > >>>>>>>> <==

> > >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'.

But

> yes

> > >>>>>> yoga in

> > >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga.

Because it

> > > is

> > >>>> the

> > >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to

predict

> the

> > >>>>>> result

> > >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are

not

> > >>>>>> applicable

> > >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > > considered

> > >>>> in

> > >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

> > > aspect

> > >>>> or

> > >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

> > > chart.

> > >>>>>>>> Love,

> > >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy

> Seetharama

> > >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance

of

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

> > > chart

> > >>>> is

> > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my

experience

> > > so

> > >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not

understood

> > > what

> > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

> > >>>>>>>>> important.

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> overall

> > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

chart

> > > like

> > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

treated

> > > as

> > >>>> if

> > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

well?

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> > > chart, it

> > >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up

two

> > > equal

> > >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

> > > What I

> > >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> importance?

> > >>>> What

> > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of

many

> > > varga

> > >>>>>>>>> charts!

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> > >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and

both

> of

> > >>>>>>>>>> your

> > >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> valuable

> > >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> > >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I

would

> > > like

> > >>>>>>>>>> to

> > >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa

chart

> > > alone

> > >>>>>>>>>> most

> > >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both

the

> > >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> > >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > > valuable;

> > >>>>>>>>>> at the

> > >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> separate

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> > >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

> since

> > >>>>>>>>>> any of

> > >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if

the

> > > Rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the

Rasi

> > > chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> several

> > >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that

yogas

> > > viewed

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart

for

> > >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> > >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> > > separate

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> > > checking

> > >>>>>>>>>> some

> > >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects)

in

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana

should

> be

> > >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual

influence

> at

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span.

of

> > > Rasi.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own

house

> in

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart,

it

> is

> > >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> > >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the

Rasi.

> Why

> > > is

> > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because,

even

> > > though

> > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> > >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> > >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has

weakened

> > > it;

> > >>>>>>>>>> means,

> > >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> weakest

> > >>>>>>>>>> point for

> > >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses

its

> > >>>>>>>>>> strength

> > >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> strengths

> > > for

> > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> navamsa

> > >>>>>>>>>> position

> > >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement

within

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> > >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to

both

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in

one

> > > of

> > >>>>>>>>>> them

> > >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not

give

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> same

> > >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to

Navamsa;

> > > but

> > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent

that

> it

> > > can

> > >>>>>>>>>> be

> > >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

> > > given

> > >>>>>>>>>> by the

> > >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

> rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I

have

> > >>>>>>>>>> observed

> > >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both

in

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> > >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

> rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the

karakamsa

> > >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> > >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> Chandra)

> > >>>>>>>>>> and

> > >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the

karakamsa

> is

> > >>>>>>>>>> brought

> > >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The

sequence

> > > of

> > >>>>>>>>>> my life

> > >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider

karakamsa

> > > lagna

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's

opinion

> > >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> > >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be

considered on

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao

always

> > > says.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in

the

> > > Rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra

is

> in

> > >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> > >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful

house,

> > > and

> > >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> traditional

> > >>>>>>>>>> education).

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> summarize

> > >>>>>>>>>> that

> > >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily

in

> > >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> > >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> > >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar

> > >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

> Rao.

> > >>>>>>>>>> First

> > >>>>>>>>>> there is

> > >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka

though

> > > it

> > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> > >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that

in

> > >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> > >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood

in

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>> context that

> > >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning

karakamsha

> and

> > >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the

results of

> > >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> > >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> karakamsha

> > >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> > >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

> > >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> > >>>>>>>>>> I

> > >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well

versed in

> > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> > >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention

of

> mine

> > >>>>>>>>>> if he

> > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> results

> > >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> > >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> potential

> > >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> > >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the

grahas in

> > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > > materialize. I

> > >>>>>>>>>> hope

> > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> > >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever

it

> is

> > >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> > >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing

to

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also

says,Karakamsha

> has

> > >>>>>>>>>> one

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing

to

> the

> > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are

some

> > >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> > >>>>>>>>>> which

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his

view

> > >>>>>>>>>> point.

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell

this.Sometimes

> > > the

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> > >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

> > > proper

> > >>>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>

> > >

>

___________________

_

> > >>>>>>>> ______________

> > >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> > >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> previews

> > > at

> > >>>>>>>> Games.

> > >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> > >>>>>>>>>

> > >>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

Navamshesha of a bhava lord.Say my lagna lord is Guru.Its

navamshesha is Mercury.Mercury will be in some navamsha.It is in

Makara rashi in my case.Within Makara it is in Leo navamsha.As far

as i have seen the usage of amsha transits,one has to see the

transit from Leo rashi.I have explained this in the mother/father

navamsha/dwadashamsha shloka.

Now there is another principle.In that you have to see whether a

planet is transiting the exact degrees of its placement.transiting

amshas is identical to it.

In my case if a planet say saturn is transiting makara rashi,leo

amsha(as you have quoted) that is a 3.2 degree sector within makara

rashi,certain results can be predicted.

It is physical transit exactly over my natal mercury's 3.2 degree

span.

How is this physical transit over natal rashi justifying bhavas in

navamsha chakra.You are a learned scholar and you have to correct

them if some one is making mistakes.

Respect

Pradeep

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I do not know whether you have read Chandrakalanadi Sanskrit

shlokas,

> but the reference to transit identical with the amshas of the

> navamshesha of a bhava lord is clearly given therein. So Prafulla

is right.

>

> For the record, Garga was not considered sage like but was a sage

well

> respected by even Parashara himself.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Prafulla ji

> >

> > If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

> > talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

> > chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in

Dashadhayayi.Moreover

> > Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

> > chandranavmshaka rashi.

> >

> > Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by

sagelike

> > figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not

english

> > translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit

with

> > clear reeference to rashi.

> >

> > Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

> > rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

> > reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

> >

> > So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can

only

> > be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha

rashi.Whether you

> > see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka

rashi,they are

> > both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no

amiguity

> > at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > many thanks for your pointer.

> > >

> > > Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> > referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in

Saravali

> > and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> > carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> > >

> > > I quote another reference:

> > > Satyacharya:

> > > " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in

the

> > navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> > (conveyances). "

> > >

> > > There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart

in

> > transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are

referred

> > and navamsa chakras are referred.

> > >

> > > BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology

document;

> > as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D

charts

> > and aspects therein.

> > >

> > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > >

> > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > ************************************************

> > >

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> > Quarter/Half

> > > > aspects

> > > >

> > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > >

> > > > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in

Rashis.Please

> > > > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma

clearly

> > > > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half

aspect

> > > > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that

these are

> > non-

> > > > full aspects in rashi chart.

> > > >

> > > > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and

Chandrashekhar ji

> > too

> > > > had given similr explanations.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > >>

> > > >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan

Varma

> > has

> > > > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> > aspecting

> > > > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the

obvious

> > > > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> > > >>

> > > >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with

current

> > age

> > > > scholars !!

> > > >>

> > > >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >>

> > > >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > >> ************************************************

> > > >>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> jyotish@

> > > >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> > > >>>

> > <%40>

> > > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making

comment,

> > be

> > > >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> > > > application

> > > >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the

wrong

> > > >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct

way).

> > > >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little

relevance in

> > > > jyotish.

> > > >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case

studies -

> > > > then at

> > > >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> > commentaries -

> > > > but my

> > > >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> > > > of " less read

> > > >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late

Santhanam / Shri

> > > > KN Rao /

> > > >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > > > not " pretend " to

> > > >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> > business "

> > > > with my

> > > >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following

better

> > > > quality

> > > >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > >>> ************************************************

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> sreesog@

> > > >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> > > >>>>

> > <%40>

> > > >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts

every

> > one

> > > > is

> > > >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is

every

> > > > chance

> > > >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> > > > argument is

> > > >>>> right.

> > > >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice -

when

> > > > you

> > > >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > > > understand

> > > >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> > someone

> > > > who

> > > >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> > > >>>> Love,

> > > >>>> Sreenadh

> > > >>>>

> > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > >>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice

or

> > > >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there

not been

> > > > any

> > > >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts

must

> > not

> > > >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know

better

> > > >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the

forum

> > > >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> > > >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the

people -

> > > > must

> > > >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great

sanskrit

> > > >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not

have any

> > > >>>> relevance.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> > right

> > > > to

> > > >>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > >>>>> ************************************************

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> sreesog@

> > > >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> > > >>>>>>

> > <%40>

> > > >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not

chart) " just

> > > > like

> > > >>>> D1

> > > >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> > > >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> > > > planets

> > > >>>> in

> > > >>>>>> Navamasa "

> > > >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when

planets

> > > > are

> > > >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> > > > sages;

> > > >>>> If

> > > >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Love,

> > > >>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > >>>>>>

> > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > >>>>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using

navamsa

> > > > chart

> > > >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9

charts -

> > > > can be

> > > >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1

chart.

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include

the

> > > > right

> > > >>>> to

> > > >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > >>>>>>> ************************************************

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> > > >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > <%40>

> > > >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> > important?

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa.

Navamsa

> > > > chart

> > > >>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be,

because

> > > > it

> > > >>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> > amsas

> > > > due

> > > >>>>>> to

> > > >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > overall

> > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the

strength of

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > > > importance.

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

chart

> > > > like

> > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in

Navamsa.

> > > > (There

> > > >>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

treated

> > > > as

> > > >>>> if

> > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> > means

> > > >>>> that.

> > > >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that.

It is

> > > >>>> wrong

> > > >>>>>> to

> > > >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

well?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'.

But

> > yes

> > > >>>>>> yoga in

> > > >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga.

Because it

> > > > is

> > > >>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to

predict

> > the

> > > >>>>>> result

> > > >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are

not

> > > >>>>>> applicable

> > > >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > > > considered

> > > >>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts

about

> > > > aspect

> > > >>>> or

> > > >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to

Rasi

> > > > chart.

> > > >>>>>>>> Love,

> > > >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > <%40>, Krishnamurthy

> > Seetharama

> > > >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on

importance of

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that

Navamsa

> > > > chart

> > > >>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my

experience

> > > > so

> > > >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not

understood

> > > > what

> > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being

so

> > > >>>>>>>>> important.

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > overall

> > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

chart

> > > > like

> > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

treated

> > > > as

> > > >>>> if

> > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

well?

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> > > > chart, it

> > > >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make

up two

> > > > equal

> > > >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa

Chart.

> > > > What I

> > > >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> > importance?

> > > >>>> What

> > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of

many

> > > > varga

> > > >>>>>>>>> charts!

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> > > >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and

both

> > of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> your

> > > >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> > valuable

> > > >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> > > >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I

would

> > > > like

> > > >>>>>>>>>> to

> > > >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa

chart

> > > > alone

> > > >>>>>>>>>> most

> > > >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found

both the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> > > >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > > > valuable;

> > > >>>>>>>>>> at the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> > separate

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi

chart),

> > since

> > > >>>>>>>>>> any of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results

if the

> > > > Rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the

Rasi

> > > > chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> > several

> > > >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that

yogas

> > > > viewed

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa

chart for

> > > >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> > > > separate

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> > > > checking

> > > >>>>>>>>>> some

> > > >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects)

in

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana

should

> > be

> > > >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual

influence

> > at

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg.

span. of

> > > > Rasi.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own

house

> > in

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa

chart, it

> > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> > > >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the

Rasi.

> > Why

> > > > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because,

even

> > > > though

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> > > >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> > > >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has

weakened

> > > > it;

> > > >>>>>>>>>> means,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> > weakest

> > > >>>>>>>>>> point for

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it

loses its

> > > >>>>>>>>>> strength

> > > >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> > strengths

> > > > for

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> > navamsa

> > > >>>>>>>>>> position

> > > >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement

within

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> > > >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to

both

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak

in one

> > > > of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> them

> > > >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not

give

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> same

> > > >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to

Navamsa;

> > > > but

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent

that

> > it

> > > > can

> > > >>>>>>>>>> be

> > > >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the

promise

> > > > given

> > > >>>>>>>>>> by the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in

the

> > rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I

have

> > > >>>>>>>>>> observed

> > > >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both

in

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> > > >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in

the

> > rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the

karakamsa

> > > >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> > > >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> > Chandra)

> > > >>>>>>>>>> and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the

karakamsa

> > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> brought

> > > >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The

sequence

> > > > of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> my life

> > > >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider

karakamsa

> > > > lagna

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's

opinion

> > > >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> > > >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be

considered on

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao

always

> > > > says.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in

the

> > > > Rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my

Sukra is

> > in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> > > >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful

house,

> > > > and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> > traditional

> > > >>>>>>>>>> education).

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> > summarize

> > > >>>>>>>>>> that

> > > >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not

necessarily in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K.

N.

> > Rao.

> > > >>>>>>>>>> First

> > > >>>>>>>>>> there is

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka

though

> > > > it

> > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered

that in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be

understood in

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> context that

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning

karakamsha

> > and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the

results of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> > karakamsha

> > > >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two

different

> > > >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well

versed in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention

of

> > mine

> > > >>>>>>>>>> if he

> > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> > results

> > > >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> > potential

> > > >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the

grahas in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > > > materialize. I

> > > >>>>>>>>>> hope

> > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for

whatever it

> > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is

pointing to

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also

says,Karakamsha

> > has

> > > >>>>>>>>>> one

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not

pointing to

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are

some

> > > >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> > > >>>>>>>>>> which

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting

his view

> > > >>>>>>>>>> point.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell

this.Sometimes

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded

by

> > > > proper

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >

> > ________

> > > >>>>>>>> ______________

> > > >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> > > >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> > previews

> > > > at

> > > >>>>>>>> Games.

> > > >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> > <http://videogames./platform?platform=120121>

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

How about shrutakeerthi and jeevasharma.How about dashadhyayi which

prashnamarga is praising.How about Varhamihira,which shri Rath too

agrees(he cannot disgree as they are so evident) that amshaka has to

be seen from rashi.

Respect

Pradeep

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I do not know whether you have read Chandrakalanadi Sanskrit

shlokas,

> but the reference to transit identical with the amshas of the

> navamshesha of a bhava lord is clearly given therein. So Prafulla

is right.

>

> For the record, Garga was not considered sage like but was a sage

well

> respected by even Parashara himself.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Prafulla ji

> >

> > If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

> > talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

> > chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in

Dashadhayayi.Moreover

> > Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

> > chandranavmshaka rashi.

> >

> > Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by

sagelike

> > figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not

english

> > translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit

with

> > clear reeference to rashi.

> >

> > Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

> > rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

> > reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

> >

> > So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can

only

> > be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha

rashi.Whether you

> > see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka

rashi,they are

> > both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no

amiguity

> > at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > many thanks for your pointer.

> > >

> > > Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> > referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in

Saravali

> > and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> > carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> > >

> > > I quote another reference:

> > > Satyacharya:

> > > " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in

the

> > navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> > (conveyances). "

> > >

> > > There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart

in

> > transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are

referred

> > and navamsa chakras are referred.

> > >

> > > BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology

document;

> > as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D

charts

> > and aspects therein.

> > >

> > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > >

> > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > ************************************************

> > >

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> > Quarter/Half

> > > > aspects

> > > >

> > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > >

> > > > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in

Rashis.Please

> > > > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma

clearly

> > > > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half

aspect

> > > > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that

these are

> > non-

> > > > full aspects in rashi chart.

> > > >

> > > > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and

Chandrashekhar ji

> > too

> > > > had given similr explanations.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > >>

> > > >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan

Varma

> > has

> > > > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> > aspecting

> > > > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the

obvious

> > > > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> > > >>

> > > >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with

current

> > age

> > > > scholars !!

> > > >>

> > > >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >>

> > > >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > >> ************************************************

> > > >>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> jyotish@

> > > >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> > > >>>

> > <%40>

> > > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making

comment,

> > be

> > > >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> > > > application

> > > >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the

wrong

> > > >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct

way).

> > > >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little

relevance in

> > > > jyotish.

> > > >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case

studies -

> > > > then at

> > > >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> > commentaries -

> > > > but my

> > > >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> > > > of " less read

> > > >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late

Santhanam / Shri

> > > > KN Rao /

> > > >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > > > not " pretend " to

> > > >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> > business "

> > > > with my

> > > >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following

better

> > > > quality

> > > >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > >>> ************************************************

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> sreesog@

> > > >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> > > >>>>

> > <%40>

> > > >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts

every

> > one

> > > > is

> > > >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is

every

> > > > chance

> > > >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> > > > argument is

> > > >>>> right.

> > > >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice -

when

> > > > you

> > > >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > > > understand

> > > >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> > someone

> > > > who

> > > >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> > > >>>> Love,

> > > >>>> Sreenadh

> > > >>>>

> > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > >>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice

or

> > > >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there

not been

> > > > any

> > > >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts

must

> > not

> > > >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know

better

> > > >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the

forum

> > > >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> > > >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the

people -

> > > > must

> > > >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great

sanskrit

> > > >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not

have any

> > > >>>> relevance.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> > right

> > > > to

> > > >>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > >>>>> ************************************************

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> sreesog@

> > > >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> > > >>>>>>

> > <%40>

> > > >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not

chart) " just

> > > > like

> > > >>>> D1

> > > >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> > > >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> > > > planets

> > > >>>> in

> > > >>>>>> Navamasa "

> > > >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when

planets

> > > > are

> > > >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> > > > sages;

> > > >>>> If

> > > >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Love,

> > > >>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > >>>>>>

> > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > >>>>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using

navamsa

> > > > chart

> > > >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9

charts -

> > > > can be

> > > >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1

chart.

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include

the

> > > > right

> > > >>>> to

> > > >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > >>>>>>> ************************************************

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> > > >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > <%40>

> > > >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> > important?

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa.

Navamsa

> > > > chart

> > > >>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be,

because

> > > > it

> > > >>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> > amsas

> > > > due

> > > >>>>>> to

> > > >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > overall

> > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the

strength of

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > > > importance.

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

chart

> > > > like

> > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in

Navamsa.

> > > > (There

> > > >>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

treated

> > > > as

> > > >>>> if

> > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> > means

> > > >>>> that.

> > > >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that.

It is

> > > >>>> wrong

> > > >>>>>> to

> > > >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

well?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'.

But

> > yes

> > > >>>>>> yoga in

> > > >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga.

Because it

> > > > is

> > > >>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to

predict

> > the

> > > >>>>>> result

> > > >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are

not

> > > >>>>>> applicable

> > > >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > > > considered

> > > >>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts

about

> > > > aspect

> > > >>>> or

> > > >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to

Rasi

> > > > chart.

> > > >>>>>>>> Love,

> > > >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > <%40>, Krishnamurthy

> > Seetharama

> > > >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on

importance of

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that

Navamsa

> > > > chart

> > > >>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my

experience

> > > > so

> > > >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not

understood

> > > > what

> > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being

so

> > > >>>>>>>>> important.

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > overall

> > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

chart

> > > > like

> > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

treated

> > > > as

> > > >>>> if

> > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

well?

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> > > > chart, it

> > > >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make

up two

> > > > equal

> > > >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa

Chart.

> > > > What I

> > > >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> > importance?

> > > >>>> What

> > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of

many

> > > > varga

> > > >>>>>>>>> charts!

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> > > >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and

both

> > of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> your

> > > >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> > valuable

> > > >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> > > >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I

would

> > > > like

> > > >>>>>>>>>> to

> > > >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa

chart

> > > > alone

> > > >>>>>>>>>> most

> > > >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found

both the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> > > >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > > > valuable;

> > > >>>>>>>>>> at the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> > separate

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi

chart),

> > since

> > > >>>>>>>>>> any of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results

if the

> > > > Rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the

Rasi

> > > > chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> > several

> > > >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that

yogas

> > > > viewed

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa

chart for

> > > >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> > > > separate

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> > > > checking

> > > >>>>>>>>>> some

> > > >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects)

in

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana

should

> > be

> > > >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual

influence

> > at

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg.

span. of

> > > > Rasi.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own

house

> > in

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa

chart, it

> > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> > > >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the

Rasi.

> > Why

> > > > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because,

even

> > > > though

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> > > >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> > > >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has

weakened

> > > > it;

> > > >>>>>>>>>> means,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> > weakest

> > > >>>>>>>>>> point for

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it

loses its

> > > >>>>>>>>>> strength

> > > >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> > strengths

> > > > for

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> > navamsa

> > > >>>>>>>>>> position

> > > >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement

within

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> > > >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to

both

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak

in one

> > > > of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> them

> > > >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not

give

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> same

> > > >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to

Navamsa;

> > > > but

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent

that

> > it

> > > > can

> > > >>>>>>>>>> be

> > > >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the

promise

> > > > given

> > > >>>>>>>>>> by the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in

the

> > rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I

have

> > > >>>>>>>>>> observed

> > > >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both

in

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> > > >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in

the

> > rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the

karakamsa

> > > >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> > > >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> > Chandra)

> > > >>>>>>>>>> and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the

karakamsa

> > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> brought

> > > >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The

sequence

> > > > of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> my life

> > > >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider

karakamsa

> > > > lagna

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's

opinion

> > > >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> > > >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be

considered on

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao

always

> > > > says.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in

the

> > > > Rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my

Sukra is

> > in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> > > >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful

house,

> > > > and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> > traditional

> > > >>>>>>>>>> education).

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> > summarize

> > > >>>>>>>>>> that

> > > >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not

necessarily in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K.

N.

> > Rao.

> > > >>>>>>>>>> First

> > > >>>>>>>>>> there is

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka

though

> > > > it

> > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered

that in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be

understood in

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> context that

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning

karakamsha

> > and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the

results of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> > karakamsha

> > > >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two

different

> > > >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well

versed in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention

of

> > mine

> > > >>>>>>>>>> if he

> > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> > results

> > > >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> > potential

> > > >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the

grahas in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > > > materialize. I

> > > >>>>>>>>>> hope

> > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for

whatever it

> > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is

pointing to

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also

says,Karakamsha

> > has

> > > >>>>>>>>>> one

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not

pointing to

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are

some

> > > >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> > > >>>>>>>>>> which

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting

his view

> > > >>>>>>>>>> point.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell

this.Sometimes

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded

by

> > > > proper

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >

> > ________

> > > >>>>>>>> ______________

> > > >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> > > >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> > previews

> > > > at

> > > >>>>>>>> Games.

> > > >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> > <http://videogames./platform?platform=120121>

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear Good Members,

This thread is now leading to want of proof and

counter proof,and demands for the same. Though

you people are good,and will mantain decorum in

your exchanges, yet difference of opinions would

create unnecessary camps and partitions. This

difference would take a long time to be removed

from the insides,and may reflect in other new

exchanges too, before it goes out of hand,

Whether you should continue or not,I leave

upto you. When consensus is not obtained, it

is better to let matters remain and be, and

the prowess of each may be shown in predictive

matters,rather than on theoretical treatises,

on which umpteen references can be provided by

each party to support their claims,which

would still not lead nowhere and can be continued

for another dozen years too without recourse to

authentic proof of conclusions, obtained as

the final truth. Voluntarily quitting from

these exchanges would be the best solution

for the present.

My last unasked for advise to you, on this matter.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

July 8, 2007

Dear shri Prafulla

You can respect shri Ranjan as well as any other astrologer.

My point was,shri Ranjan too had raised this doubt and

Chandrashekhar ji explained to him that they are not full aspects.

If you read Kalyan Varma he is talking about aspects in Rashis

there.He had explained quarter,half aspects ect elsewhere.

Shri Raojis or shri Ranjans views are respected.But it does not

prevent us from having a rellok at the basics,especially as authors

praised and extolld by prashna marga feels in a different way.

Regds

Pradeep

, " Prafulla Gang " <jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> further to my earlier note:

>

> RR's opinion personally matters to me - because, I rate him

highly.

> But his opinion (from the article quoted) and other articles

> (specially the navamsha route for sade sati rationale) do not hint

> that, he disapproves D9 chakra (as you have contested).

>

> Well, I am not experienced with Shri Chandrasekhar ji's writings

> much as yet, so am not competent to comment on his predictive

model

> (in conformity with your point of view).

>

> regards / Prafulla

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Prafulla ji

> >

> > I was not talking about shri Ranjans view.

> > Shri Ranjan too had this doubt (aspects sun/venus etc) and

> > Chandrashekhar ji corrected him.

> >

> > If you can give sanskrit shlokas all can chack -not only me any

> > scholar.If you rememer when me and shri Narasimha were

discussing

> he

> > could only give Lagna shadvargake as example.Thus you can think.

> >

> > Also you can ask anyone if a chart is needed to know about amsha

> > transits.Even if you see 3.2 degree sector or the corresponding

> root

> > rashi,they are in rashi chakra.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > many thanks for your pointer.

> > >

> > > Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> > referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in

> Saravali

> > and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which

certainly

> > carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> > >

> > > I quote another reference:

> > > Satyacharya:

> > > " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in

> the

> > navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> > (conveyances). "

> > >

> > > There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart

> in

> > transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are

> referred

> > and navamsa chakras are referred.

> > >

> > > BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology

> document;

> > as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D

> charts

> > and aspects therein.

> > >

> > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > >

> > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > ************************************************

> > >

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> > > >

> > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> > Quarter/Half

> > > > aspects

> > > >

> > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > >

> > > > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in

> Rashis.Please

> > > > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma

> clearly

> > > > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half

aspect

> > > > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that

these

> are

> > non-

> > > > full aspects in rashi chart.

> > > >

> > > > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and

Chandrashekhar

> ji

> > too

> > > > had given similr explanations.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > >>

> > > >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan

> Varma

> > has

> > > > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> > aspecting

> > > > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the

> obvious

> > > > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> > > >>

> > > >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with

> current

> > age

> > > > scholars !!

> > > >>

> > > >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >> http://www.prafulla.net

> > > >>

> > > >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > >> ************************************************

> > > >>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> jyotish@

> > > >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making

> comment,

> > be

> > > >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> > > > application

> > > >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the

> wrong

> > > >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct

> way).

> > > >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little

relevance

> in

> > > > jyotish.

> > > >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case

> studies -

> > > > then at

> > > >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> > commentaries -

> > > > but my

> > > >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> > > > of " less read

> > > >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late

Santhanam /

> Shri

> > > > KN Rao /

> > > >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > > > not " pretend " to

> > > >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> > business "

> > > > with my

> > > >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following

better

> > > > quality

> > > >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net

> > > >>>

> > > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > >>> ************************************************

> > > >>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> sreesog@

> > > >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts

> every

> > one

> > > > is

> > > >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is

> every

> > > > chance

> > > >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> > > > argument is

> > > >>>> right.

> > > >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice -

> when

> > > > you

> > > >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > > > understand

> > > >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> > someone

> > > > who

> > > >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> > > >>>> Love,

> > > >>>> Sreenadh

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> , Prafulla Gang

> <jyotish@>

> > > >>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice

or

> > > >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there

not

> been

> > > > any

> > > >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts

> must

> > not

> > > >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know

better

> > > >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the

forum

> > > >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> > > >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the

> people -

> > > > must

> > > >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great

sanskrit

> > > >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not

have

> any

> > > >>>> relevance.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include

the

> > right

> > > > to

> > > >>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > >>>>> ************************************************

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> sreesog@

> > > >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not

> chart) " just

> > > > like

> > > >>>> D1

> > > >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> > > >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects

of

> > > > planets

> > > >>>> in

> > > >>>>>> Navamasa "

> > > >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when

> planets

> > > > are

> > > >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by

the

> > > > sages;

> > > >>>> If

> > > >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Love,

> > > >>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> , Prafulla Gang

> <jyotish@>

> > > >>>>>> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using

navamsa

> > > > chart

> > > >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9

> charts -

> > > > can be

> > > >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1

> chart.

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include

the

> > > > right

> > > >>>> to

> > > >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > >>>>>>> ************************************************

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> > > >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> > important?

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa.

> Navamsa

> > > > chart

> > > >>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be,

> because

> > > > it

> > > >>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than

other

> > amsas

> > > > due

> > > >>>>>> to

> > > >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > overall

> > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the

> strength of

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > > > importance.

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

> chart

> > > > like

> > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in

> Navamsa.

> > > > (There

> > > >>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

> treated

> > > > as

> > > >>>> if

> > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it

only

> > means

> > > >>>> that.

> > > >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that.

> It is

> > > >>>> wrong

> > > >>>>>> to

> > > >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

> well?

> > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'.

> But

> > yes

> > > >>>>>> yoga in

> > > >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga.

> Because it

> > > > is

> > > >>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to

> predict

> > the

> > > >>>>>> result

> > > >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are

> not

> > > >>>>>> applicable

> > > >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > > > considered

> > > >>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts

about

> > > > aspect

> > > >>>> or

> > > >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to

Rasi

> > > > chart.

> > > >>>>>>>> Love,

> > > >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy

> > Seetharama

> > > >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on

importance

> of

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that

Navamsa

> > > > chart

> > > >>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my

> experience

> > > > so

> > > >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not

> understood

> > > > what

> > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being

so

> > > >>>>>>>>> important.

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > overall

> > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

> chart

> > > > like

> > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

> treated

> > > > as

> > > >>>> if

> > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

> well?

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> > > > chart, it

> > > >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make

up

> two

> > > > equal

> > > >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa

Chart.

> > > > What I

> > > >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> > importance?

> > > >>>> What

> > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of

> many

> > > > varga

> > > >>>>>>>>> charts!

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> > > >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and

> both

> > of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> your

> > > >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> > valuable

> > > >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> > > >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I

> would

> > > > like

> > > >>>>>>>>>> to

> > > >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa

> chart

> > > > alone

> > > >>>>>>>>>> most

> > > >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found

both

> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> > > >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > > > valuable;

> > > >>>>>>>>>> at the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> > separate

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi

chart),

> > since

> > > >>>>>>>>>> any of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results

if

> the

> > > > Rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the

> Rasi

> > > > chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> > several

> > > >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that

> yogas

> > > > viewed

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa

chart

> for

> > > >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> > > > separate

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> > > > checking

> > > >>>>>>>>>> some

> > > >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects)

> in

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana

> should

> > be

> > > >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual

> influence

> > at

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg.

span.

> of

> > > > Rasi.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own

> house

> > in

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa

chart,

> it

> > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> > > >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the

> Rasi.

> > Why

> > > > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because,

> even

> > > > though

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> > > >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> > > >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has

> weakened

> > > > it;

> > > >>>>>>>>>> means,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> > weakest

> > > >>>>>>>>>> point for

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it

loses

> its

> > > >>>>>>>>>> strength

> > > >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> > strengths

> > > > for

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> > navamsa

> > > >>>>>>>>>> position

> > > >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement

> within

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> > > >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to

> both

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak

in

> one

> > > > of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> them

> > > >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not

> give

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> same

> > > >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to

> Navamsa;

> > > > but

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent

> that

> > it

> > > > can

> > > >>>>>>>>>> be

> > > >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the

promise

> > > > given

> > > >>>>>>>>>> by the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in

the

> > rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I

> have

> > > >>>>>>>>>> observed

> > > >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both

> in

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> > > >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in

the

> > rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the

> karakamsa

> > > >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> > > >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> > Chandra)

> > > >>>>>>>>>> and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the

> karakamsa

> > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> brought

> > > >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The

> sequence

> > > > of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> my life

> > > >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider

> karakamsa

> > > > lagna

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's

> opinion

> > > >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> > > >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be

> considered on

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao

> always

> > > > says.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in

> the

> > > > Rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my

Sukra

> is

> > in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> > > >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful

> house,

> > > > and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> > traditional

> > > >>>>>>>>>> education).

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> > summarize

> > > >>>>>>>>>> that

> > > >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not

necessarily

> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar

> > > >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K.

N.

> > Rao.

> > > >>>>>>>>>> First

> > > >>>>>>>>>> there is

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka

> though

> > > > it

> > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered

that

> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be

understood

> in

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> context that

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning

> karakamsha

> > and

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the

> results of

> > > >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> > karakamsha

> > > >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two

different

> > > >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> > > >>>>>>>>>> I

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well

> versed in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention

> of

> > mine

> > > >>>>>>>>>> if he

> > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> > results

> > > >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> > potential

> > > >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the

> grahas in

> > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > > > materialize. I

> > > >>>>>>>>>> hope

> > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for

whatever

> it

> > is

> > > >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is

pointing

> to

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also

> says,Karakamsha

> > has

> > > >>>>>>>>>> one

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not

pointing

> to

> > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are

> some

> > > >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> > > >>>>>>>>>> which

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting

his

> view

> > > >>>>>>>>>> point.

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell

> this.Sometimes

> > > > the

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded

by

> > > > proper

> > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >

> >

>

___________________

> _

> > > >>>>>>>> ______________

> > > >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> > > >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> > previews

> > > > at

> > > >>>>>>>> Games.

> > > >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear Pradeep ji

Of course - respect is altogether different issue than technical

understanding / adaption.

regards / Prafulla

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear shri Prafulla

>

> You can respect shri Ranjan as well as any other astrologer.

> My point was,shri Ranjan too had raised this doubt and

> Chandrashekhar ji explained to him that they are not full aspects.

> If you read Kalyan Varma he is talking about aspects in Rashis

> there.He had explained quarter,half aspects ect elsewhere.

> Shri Raojis or shri Ranjans views are respected.But it does not

> prevent us from having a rellok at the basics,especially as

authors

> praised and extolld by prashna marga feels in a different way.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

> , " Prafulla Gang " <jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > further to my earlier note:

> >

> > RR's opinion personally matters to me - because, I rate him

> highly.

> > But his opinion (from the article quoted) and other articles

> > (specially the navamsha route for sade sati rationale) do not

hint

> > that, he disapproves D9 chakra (as you have contested).

> >

> > Well, I am not experienced with Shri Chandrasekhar ji's writings

> > much as yet, so am not competent to comment on his predictive

> model

> > (in conformity with your point of view).

> >

> > regards / Prafulla

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > >

> > > I was not talking about shri Ranjans view.

> > > Shri Ranjan too had this doubt (aspects sun/venus etc) and

> > > Chandrashekhar ji corrected him.

> > >

> > > If you can give sanskrit shlokas all can chack -not only me

any

> > > scholar.If you rememer when me and shri Narasimha were

> discussing

> > he

> > > could only give Lagna shadvargake as example.Thus you can

think.

> > >

> > > Also you can ask anyone if a chart is needed to know about

amsha

> > > transits.Even if you see 3.2 degree sector or the

corresponding

> > root

> > > rashi,they are in rashi chakra.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > many thanks for your pointer.

> > > >

> > > > Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect -

while

> > > referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in

> > Saravali

> > > and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which

> certainly

> > > carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> > > >

> > > > I quote another reference:

> > > > Satyacharya:

> > > > " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis)

in

> > the

> > > navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> > > (conveyances). "

> > > >

> > > > There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9

chart

> > in

> > > transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are

> > referred

> > > and navamsa chakras are referred.

> > > >

> > > > BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology

> > document;

> > > as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D

> > charts

> > > and aspects therein.

> > > >

> > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > http://www.prafulla.net

> > > >

> > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > ************************************************

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> > > > >

> > > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

important?

> > > Quarter/Half

> > > > > aspects

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > >

> > > > > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in

> > Rashis.Please

> > > > > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma

> > clearly

> > > > > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half

> aspect

> > > > > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that

> these

> > are

> > > non-

> > > > > full aspects in rashi chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and

> Chandrashekhar

> > ji

> > > too

> > > > > had given similr explanations.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > > , Prafulla Gang

<jyotish@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan

> > Varma

> > > has

> > > > > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or

mercury

> > > aspecting

> > > > > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the

> > obvious

> > > > > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> > > > >>

> > > > >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with

> > current

> > > age

> > > > > scholars !!

> > > > >>

> > > > >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >> http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > >>

> > > > >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > >> ************************************************

> > > > >>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> jyotish@

> > > > >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making

> > comment,

> > > be

> > > > >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with

the

> > > > > application

> > > > >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly

the

> > wrong

> > > > >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in

correct

> > way).

> > > > >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little

> relevance

> > in

> > > > > jyotish.

> > > > >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case

> > studies -

> > > > > then at

> > > > >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> > > commentaries -

> > > > > but my

> > > > >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the

views

> > > > > of " less read

> > > > >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late

> Santhanam /

> > Shri

> > > > > KN Rao /

> > > > >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > > > > not " pretend " to

> > > > >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> > > business "

> > > > > with my

> > > > >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following

> better

> > > > > quality

> > > > >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > >>> ************************************************

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> sreesog@

> > > > >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> > important?

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > > >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts

> > every

> > > one

> > > > > is

> > > > >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is

> > every

> > > > > chance

> > > > >>>> that even such new methods might give true results -

your

> > > > > argument is

> > > > >>>> right.

> > > > >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your

choice -

> > when

> > > > > you

> > > > >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > > > > understand

> > > > >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to

follow

> > > someone

> > > > > who

> > > > >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> > > > >>>> Love,

> > > > >>>> Sreenadh

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> , Prafulla Gang

> > <jyotish@>

> > > > >>>> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become

choice

> or

> > > > >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there

> not

> > been

> > > > > any

> > > > >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many

stalwarts

> > must

> > > not

> > > > >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know

> better

> > > > >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the

> forum

> > > > >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> > > > >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the

> > people -

> > > > > must

> > > > >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great

> sanskrit

> > > > >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not

> have

> > any

> > > > >>>> relevance.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include

> the

> > > right

> > > > > to

> > > > >>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > > >>>>> ************************************************

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> sreesog@

> > > > >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> > important?

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > > >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not

> > chart) " just

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>> D1

> > > > >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> > > > >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results

for " aspects

> of

> > > > > planets

> > > > >>>> in

> > > > >>>>>> Navamasa "

> > > > >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when

> > planets

> > > > > are

> > > > >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by

> the

> > > > > sages;

> > > > >>>> If

> > > > >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> Love,

> > > > >>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> , Prafulla Gang

> > <jyotish@>

> > > > >>>>>> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using

> navamsa

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9

> > charts -

> > > > > can be

> > > > >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1

> > chart.

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically

include

> the

> > > > > right

> > > > >>>> to

> > > > >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > > >>>>>>> ************************************************

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> > > > >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> > > important?

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> > > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa.

> > Navamsa

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be,

> > because

> > > > > it

> > > > >>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than

> other

> > > amsas

> > > > > due

> > > > >>>>>> to

> > > > >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines

the

> > > overall

> > > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the

> > strength of

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > > > > importance.

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

> > chart

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in

> > Navamsa.

> > > > > (There

> > > > >>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

> > treated

> > > > > as

> > > > >>>> if

> > > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it

> only

> > > means

> > > > >>>> that.

> > > > >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means

that.

> > It is

> > > > >>>> wrong

> > > > >>>>>> to

> > > > >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart

as

> > well?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in

Navamsa 'chart'.

> > But

> > > yes

> > > > >>>>>> yoga in

> > > > >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga.

> > Because it

> > > > > is

> > > > >>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to

> > predict

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>> result

> > > > >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses

are

> > not

> > > > >>>>>> applicable

> > > > >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > > > > considered

> > > > >>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts

> about

> > > > > aspect

> > > > >>>> or

> > > > >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to

> Rasi

> > > > > chart.

> > > > >>>>>>>> Love,

> > > > >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy

> > > Seetharama

> > > > >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on

> importance

> > of

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that

> Navamsa

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my

> > experience

> > > > > so

> > > > >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not

> > understood

> > > > > what

> > > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart

being

> so

> > > > >>>>>>>>> important.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines

the

> > > overall

> > > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

> > chart

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

> > treated

> > > > > as

> > > > >>>> if

> > > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart

as

> > well?

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to

Navamsa

> > > > > chart, it

> > > > >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make

> up

> > two

> > > > > equal

> > > > >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa

> Chart.

> > > > > What I

> > > > >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> > > importance?

> > > > >>>> What

> > > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one

of

> > many

> > > > > varga

> > > > >>>>>>>>> charts!

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa

and

> > both

> > > of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> your

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> > > valuable

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community.

I

> > would

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> to

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa

> > chart

> > > > > alone

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> most

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found

> both

> > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > > > > valuable;

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> at the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> > > separate

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi

> chart),

> > > since

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> any of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent

results

> if

> > the

> > > > > Rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if

the

> > Rasi

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned

in

> > > several

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that

> > yogas

> > > > > viewed

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa

> chart

> > for

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart

as a

> > > > > separate

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose

of

> > > > > checking

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> some

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and

aspects)

> > in

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana

> > should

> > > be

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual

> > influence

> > > at

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg.

> span.

> > of

> > > > > Rasi.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own

> > house

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa

> chart,

> > it

> > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the

> > Rasi.

> > > Why

> > > > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that

because,

> > even

> > > > > though

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still

its

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has

> > weakened

> > > > > it;

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> means,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is

the

> > > weakest

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> point for

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it

> loses

> > its

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> strength

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> > > strengths

> > > > > for

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa.

The

> > > navamsa

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> position

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement

> > within

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to

> > both

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is

weak

> in

> > one

> > > > > of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> them

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not

> > give

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> same

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to

> > Navamsa;

> > > > > but

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the

extent

> > that

> > > it

> > > > > can

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> be

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the

> promise

> > > > > given

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> by the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in

> the

> > > rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results;

I

> > have

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> observed

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra

both

> > in

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in

> the

> > > rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the

> > karakamsa

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented

by

> > > Chandra)

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the

> > karakamsa

> > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> brought

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The

> > sequence

> > > > > of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> my life

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider

> > karakamsa

> > > > > lagna

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's

> > opinion

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be

> > considered on

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao

> > always

> > > > > says.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi

in

> > the

> > > > > Rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my

> Sukra

> > is

> > > in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice

beautiful

> > house,

> > > > > and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> > > traditional

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> education).

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> > > summarize

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not

> necessarily

> > in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> ,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or

K.

> N.

> > > Rao.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> First

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> there is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and

Amshaka

> > though

> > > > > it

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered

> that

> > in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be

> understood

> > in

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> context that

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning

> > karakamsha

> > > and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the

> > results of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> > > karakamsha

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two

> different

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well

> > versed in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this

contention

> > of

> > > mine

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> if he

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that

the

> > > results

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> > > potential

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the

> > grahas in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > > > > materialize. I

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> hope

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in

the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for

> whatever

> > it

> > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is

> pointing

> > to

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also

> > says,Karakamsha

> > > has

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> one

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another

meaning.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not

> pointing

> > to

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there

are

> > some

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> which

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting

> his

> > view

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> point.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell

> > this.Sometimes

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not

preceded

> by

> > > > > proper

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >

> > >

> >

>

___________________

> > _

> > > > >>>>>>>> ______________

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> > > previews

> > > > > at

> > > > >>>>>>>> Games.

> > > > >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?

platform=120121

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear Pradeep,

Your understanding of the transit over a certain degree is right. But

you have perhaps some confusion about the applicability of the nadi

principles. it talks about the sphuta of the navamshesha. That is the

exact degree of the lord of navamsha occupied by a bhava lord. I trust

this is clear.

I am as much a student of astrology as anybody else and do not claim to

be more knowledgeable than others. I might have corrected a wrong

interpretation of some principle, on the basis of the principle as

understood by me earlier but with the type of language flying on the

list and challenges being thrown around, I have no wish to do so.

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

>

> Navamshesha of a bhava lord.Say my lagna lord is Guru.Its

> navamshesha is Mercury.Mercury will be in some navamsha.It is in

> Makara rashi in my case.Within Makara it is in Leo navamsha.As far

> as i have seen the usage of amsha transits,one has to see the

> transit from Leo rashi.I have explained this in the mother/father

> navamsha/dwadashamsha shloka.

>

> Now there is another principle.In that you have to see whether a

> planet is transiting the exact degrees of its placement.transiting

> amshas is identical to it.

>

> In my case if a planet say saturn is transiting makara rashi,leo

> amsha(as you have quoted) that is a 3.2 degree sector within makara

> rashi,certain results can be predicted.

>

> It is physical transit exactly over my natal mercury's 3.2 degree

> span.

>

> How is this physical transit over natal rashi justifying bhavas in

> navamsha chakra.You are a learned scholar and you have to correct

> them if some one is making mistakes.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I do not know whether you have read Chandrakalanadi Sanskrit

> shlokas,

> > but the reference to transit identical with the amshas of the

> > navamshesha of a bhava lord is clearly given therein. So Prafulla

> is right.

> >

> > For the record, Garga was not considered sage like but was a sage

> well

> > respected by even Parashara himself.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > >

> > > If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

> > > talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

> > > chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in

> Dashadhayayi.Moreover

> > > Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

> > > chandranavmshaka rashi.

> > >

> > > Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by

> sagelike

> > > figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not

> english

> > > translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit

> with

> > > clear reeference to rashi.

> > >

> > > Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

> > > rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

> > > reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

> > >

> > > So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can

> only

> > > be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha

> rashi.Whether you

> > > see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka

> rashi,they are

> > > both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no

> amiguity

> > > at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > many thanks for your pointer.

> > > >

> > > > Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> > > referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in

> Saravali

> > > and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> > > carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> > > >

> > > > I quote another reference:

> > > > Satyacharya:

> > > > " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in

> the

> > > navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> > > (conveyances). "

> > > >

> > > > There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart

> in

> > > transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are

> referred

> > > and navamsa chakras are referred.

> > > >

> > > > BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology

> document;

> > > as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D

> charts

> > > and aspects therein.

> > > >

> > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >

> > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > ************************************************

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> > > Quarter/Half

> > > > > aspects

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > >

> > > > > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in

> Rashis.Please

> > > > > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma

> clearly

> > > > > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half

> aspect

> > > > > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that

> these are

> > > non-

> > > > > full aspects in rashi chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and

> Chandrashekhar ji

> > > too

> > > > > had given similr explanations.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan

> Varma

> > > has

> > > > > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> > > aspecting

> > > > > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the

> obvious

> > > > > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> > > > >>

> > > > >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with

> current

> > > age

> > > > > scholars !!

> > > > >>

> > > > >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> > > > >>

> > > > >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > >> ************************************************

> > > > >>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> jyotish@

> > > > >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> > > > >>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making

> comment,

> > > be

> > > > >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> > > > > application

> > > > >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the

> wrong

> > > > >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct

> way).

> > > > >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little

> relevance in

> > > > > jyotish.

> > > > >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case

> studies -

> > > > > then at

> > > > >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> > > commentaries -

> > > > > but my

> > > > >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> > > > > of " less read

> > > > >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late

> Santhanam / Shri

> > > > > KN Rao /

> > > > >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > > > > not " pretend " to

> > > > >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> > > business "

> > > > > with my

> > > > >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following

> better

> > > > > quality

> > > > >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > >>> ************************************************

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> sreesog@

> > > > >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> > > > >>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > > >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts

> every

> > > one

> > > > > is

> > > > >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is

> every

> > > > > chance

> > > > >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> > > > > argument is

> > > > >>>> right.

> > > > >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice -

> when

> > > > > you

> > > > >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > > > > understand

> > > > >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> > > someone

> > > > > who

> > > > >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> > > > >>>> Love,

> > > > >>>> Sreenadh

> > > > >>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > >>>> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice

> or

> > > > >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there

> not been

> > > > > any

> > > > >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts

> must

> > > not

> > > > >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know

> better

> > > > >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the

> forum

> > > > >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> > > > >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the

> people -

> > > > > must

> > > > >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great

> sanskrit

> > > > >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not

> have any

> > > > >>>> relevance.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> > > right

> > > > > to

> > > > >>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > > >>>>> ************************************************

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> sreesog@

> > > > >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> > > > >>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > > >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not

> chart) " just

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>> D1

> > > > >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> > > > >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> > > > > planets

> > > > >>>> in

> > > > >>>>>> Navamasa "

> > > > >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when

> planets

> > > > > are

> > > > >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> > > > > sages;

> > > > >>>> If

> > > > >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> Love,

> > > > >>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > > >>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > >>>>>> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using

> navamsa

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9

> charts -

> > > > > can be

> > > > >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1

> chart.

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include

> the

> > > > > right

> > > > >>>> to

> > > > >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > > >>>>>>> ************************************************

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> > > > >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> > > important?

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> > > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa.

> Navamsa

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be,

> because

> > > > > it

> > > > >>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> > > amsas

> > > > > due

> > > > >>>>>> to

> > > > >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > > overall

> > > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the

> strength of

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > > > > importance.

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

> chart

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in

> Navamsa.

> > > > > (There

> > > > >>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

> treated

> > > > > as

> > > > >>>> if

> > > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> > > means

> > > > >>>> that.

> > > > >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that.

> It is

> > > > >>>> wrong

> > > > >>>>>> to

> > > > >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

> well?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'.

> But

> > > yes

> > > > >>>>>> yoga in

> > > > >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga.

> Because it

> > > > > is

> > > > >>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to

> predict

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>> result

> > > > >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are

> not

> > > > >>>>>> applicable

> > > > >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > > > > considered

> > > > >>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts

> about

> > > > > aspect

> > > > >>>> or

> > > > >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to

> Rasi

> > > > > chart.

> > > > >>>>>>>> Love,

> > > > >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Krishnamurthy

> > > Seetharama

> > > > >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on

> importance of

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that

> Navamsa

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my

> experience

> > > > > so

> > > > >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not

> understood

> > > > > what

> > > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being

> so

> > > > >>>>>>>>> important.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > > overall

> > > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

> chart

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

> treated

> > > > > as

> > > > >>>> if

> > > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

> well?

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> > > > > chart, it

> > > > >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make

> up two

> > > > > equal

> > > > >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa

> Chart.

> > > > > What I

> > > > >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> > > importance?

> > > > >>>> What

> > > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of

> many

> > > > > varga

> > > > >>>>>>>>> charts!

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and

> both

> > > of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> your

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> > > valuable

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I

> would

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> to

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa

> chart

> > > > > alone

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> most

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found

> both the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > > > > valuable;

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> at the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> > > separate

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi

> chart),

> > > since

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> any of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results

> if the

> > > > > Rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the

> Rasi

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> > > several

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that

> yogas

> > > > > viewed

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa

> chart for

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> > > > > separate

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> > > > > checking

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> some

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects)

> in

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana

> should

> > > be

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual

> influence

> > > at

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg.

> span. of

> > > > > Rasi.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own

> house

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa

> chart, it

> > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the

> Rasi.

> > > Why

> > > > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because,

> even

> > > > > though

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has

> weakened

> > > > > it;

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> means,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> > > weakest

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> point for

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it

> loses its

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> strength

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> > > strengths

> > > > > for

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> > > navamsa

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> position

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement

> within

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to

> both

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak

> in one

> > > > > of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> them

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not

> give

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> same

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to

> Navamsa;

> > > > > but

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent

> that

> > > it

> > > > > can

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> be

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the

> promise

> > > > > given

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> by the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in

> the

> > > rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I

> have

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> observed

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both

> in

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in

> the

> > > rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the

> karakamsa

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> > > Chandra)

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the

> karakamsa

> > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> brought

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The

> sequence

> > > > > of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> my life

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider

> karakamsa

> > > > > lagna

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's

> opinion

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be

> considered on

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao

> always

> > > > > says.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in

> the

> > > > > Rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my

> Sukra is

> > > in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful

> house,

> > > > > and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> > > traditional

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> education).

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> > > summarize

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not

> necessarily in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K.

> N.

> > > Rao.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> First

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> there is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka

> though

> > > > > it

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered

> that in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be

> understood in

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> context that

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning

> karakamsha

> > > and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the

> results of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> > > karakamsha

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two

> different

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well

> versed in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention

> of

> > > mine

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> if he

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> > > results

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> > > potential

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the

> grahas in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > > > > materialize. I

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> hope

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for

> whatever it

> > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is

> pointing to

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also

> says,Karakamsha

> > > has

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> one

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not

> pointing to

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are

> some

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> which

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting

> his view

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> point.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell

> this.Sometimes

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded

> by

> > > > > proper

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >

> > > ________

> > > > >>>>>>>> ______________

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> > > previews

> > > > > at

> > > > >>>>>>>> Games.

> > > > >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> > > <http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear Pradeep,

Everyone of them is worthy of respect, as far as I am concerned. However

I do not get into the habit of giving more importance to one or the

other. If you do that on the basis of who praises whom, then with the

list you have suggested, you will have to accept Satyacharya whom Varaha

Mihira quotes as authority. same with Yavanacharya and Jeevsharma.

Once we get into the habit of rating authorities in jyotish, we may get

into the habit of assuming that Jyotish knowledge is restricted to only

a few texts. that is certainly not the case. it is said that " laxaM

vyakaranam proktaM chaturlaxam tu jyotisham " .

Of course this is my personal opinion and others can hold a different view.

take care,

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

>

> How about shrutakeerthi and jeevasharma.How about dashadhyayi which

> prashnamarga is praising.How about Varhamihira,which shri Rath too

> agrees(he cannot disgree as they are so evident) that amshaka has to

> be seen from rashi.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I do not know whether you have read Chandrakalanadi Sanskrit

> shlokas,

> > but the reference to transit identical with the amshas of the

> > navamshesha of a bhava lord is clearly given therein. So Prafulla

> is right.

> >

> > For the record, Garga was not considered sage like but was a sage

> well

> > respected by even Parashara himself.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > >

> > > If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

> > > talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

> > > chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in

> Dashadhayayi.Moreover

> > > Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

> > > chandranavmshaka rashi.

> > >

> > > Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by

> sagelike

> > > figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not

> english

> > > translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit

> with

> > > clear reeference to rashi.

> > >

> > > Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

> > > rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

> > > reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

> > >

> > > So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can

> only

> > > be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha

> rashi.Whether you

> > > see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka

> rashi,they are

> > > both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no

> amiguity

> > > at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > many thanks for your pointer.

> > > >

> > > > Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> > > referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in

> Saravali

> > > and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> > > carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> > > >

> > > > I quote another reference:

> > > > Satyacharya:

> > > > " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in

> the

> > > navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> > > (conveyances). "

> > > >

> > > > There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart

> in

> > > transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are

> referred

> > > and navamsa chakras are referred.

> > > >

> > > > BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology

> document;

> > > as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D

> charts

> > > and aspects therein.

> > > >

> > > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > >

> > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > ************************************************

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@

> > > > > Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> > > Quarter/Half

> > > > > aspects

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Prafulla ji

> > > > >

> > > > > The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in

> Rashis.Please

> > > > > check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma

> clearly

> > > > > mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half

> aspect

> > > > > etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that

> these are

> > > non-

> > > > > full aspects in rashi chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and

> Chandrashekhar ji

> > > too

> > > > > had given similr explanations.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regds

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan

> Varma

> > > has

> > > > > given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> > > aspecting

> > > > > venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the

> obvious

> > > > > reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> > > > >>

> > > > >> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with

> current

> > > age

> > > > > scholars !!

> > > > >>

> > > > >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> > > > >>

> > > > >> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > >> ************************************************

> > > > >>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> jyotish@

> > > > >>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> > > > >>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making

> comment,

> > > be

> > > > >>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> > > > > application

> > > > >>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the

> wrong

> > > > >>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct

> way).

> > > > >>> Theorists without predictive support - has little

> relevance in

> > > > > jyotish.

> > > > >>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case

> studies -

> > > > > then at

> > > > >>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> > > commentaries -

> > > > > but my

> > > > >>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> > > > > of " less read

> > > > >>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late

> Santhanam / Shri

> > > > > KN Rao /

> > > > >>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> > > > > not " pretend " to

> > > > >>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> > > business "

> > > > > with my

> > > > >>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following

> better

> > > > > quality

> > > > >>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> > > > >>> ************************************************

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> sreesog@

> > > > >>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> > > > >>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > > >>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts

> every

> > > one

> > > > > is

> > > > >>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is

> every

> > > > > chance

> > > > >>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> > > > > argument is

> > > > >>>> right.

> > > > >>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice -

> when

> > > > > you

> > > > >>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> > > > > understand

> > > > >>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> > > someone

> > > > > who

> > > > >>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> > > > >>>> Love,

> > > > >>>> Sreenadh

> > > > >>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > >>>> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice

> or

> > > > >>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there

> not been

> > > > > any

> > > > >>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts

> must

> > > not

> > > > >>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know

> better

> > > > >>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the

> forum

> > > > >>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> > > > >>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the

> people -

> > > > > must

> > > > >>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great

> sanskrit

> > > > >>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not

> have any

> > > > >>>> relevance.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> > > right

> > > > > to

> > > > >>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > > >>>>> ************************************************

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> sreesog@

> > > > >>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> > > > >>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> > > > >>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not

> chart) " just

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>> D1

> > > > >>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> > > > >>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> > > > > planets

> > > > >>>> in

> > > > >>>>>> Navamasa "

> > > > >>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when

> planets

> > > > > are

> > > > >>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> > > > > sages;

> > > > >>>> If

> > > > >>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> Love,

> > > > >>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > > >>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > > > >>>>>> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using

> navamsa

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9

> charts -

> > > > > can be

> > > > >>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1

> chart.

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> > > > >>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include

> the

> > > > > right

> > > > >>>> to

> > > > >>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> > > > >>>>>>> ************************************************

> > > > >>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> sreesog@

> > > > >>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > >>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> > > important?

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> > > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa.

> Navamsa

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be,

> because

> > > > > it

> > > > >>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> > > amsas

> > > > > due

> > > > >>>>>> to

> > > > >>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > > overall

> > > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the

> strength of

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> > > > > importance.

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

> chart

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in

> Navamsa.

> > > > > (There

> > > > >>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

> treated

> > > > > as

> > > > >>>> if

> > > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> > > means

> > > > >>>> that.

> > > > >>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that.

> It is

> > > > >>>> wrong

> > > > >>>>>> to

> > > > >>>>>>>> mix the two.

> > > > >>>>>>>> ==>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

> well?

> > > > >>>>>>>> <==

> > > > >>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'.

> But

> > > yes

> > > > >>>>>> yoga in

> > > > >>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga.

> Because it

> > > > > is

> > > > >>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to

> predict

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>> result

> > > > >>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are

> not

> > > > >>>>>> applicable

> > > > >>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> > > > > considered

> > > > >>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts

> about

> > > > > aspect

> > > > >>>> or

> > > > >>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to

> Rasi

> > > > > chart.

> > > > >>>>>>>> Love,

> > > > >>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Krishnamurthy

> > > Seetharama

> > > > >>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on

> importance of

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that

> Navamsa

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my

> experience

> > > > > so

> > > > >>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not

> understood

> > > > > what

> > > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being

> so

> > > > >>>>>>>>> important.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> > > overall

> > > > >>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

> chart

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

> treated

> > > > > as

> > > > >>>> if

> > > > >>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> > > > >>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

> well?

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> > > > > chart, it

> > > > >>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make

> up two

> > > > > equal

> > > > >>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa

> Chart.

> > > > > What I

> > > > >>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> > > importance?

> > > > >>>> What

> > > > >>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of

> many

> > > > > varga

> > > > >>>>>>>>> charts!

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Regards,

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Krishna

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and

> both

> > > of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> your

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> > > valuable

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> inputs

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I

> would

> > > > > like

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> to

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa

> chart

> > > > > alone

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> most

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found

> both the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> approaches

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> > > > > valuable;

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> at the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> > > separate

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi

> chart),

> > > since

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> any of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results

> if the

> > > > > Rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the

> Rasi

> > > > > chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> > > several

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that

> yogas

> > > > > viewed

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa

> chart for

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> confirming

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> > > > > separate

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> > > > > checking

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> some

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects)

> in

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana

> should

> > > be

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual

> influence

> > > at

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg.

> span. of

> > > > > Rasi.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own

> house

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa

> chart, it

> > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> condiered

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the

> Rasi.

> > > Why

> > > > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because,

> even

> > > > > though

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> positioning

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has

> weakened

> > > > > it;

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> means,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> > > weakest

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> point for

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it

> loses its

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> strength

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> > > strengths

> > > > > for

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> > > navamsa

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> position

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement

> within

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to

> both

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak

> in one

> > > > > of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> them

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not

> give

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> same

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to

> Navamsa;

> > > > > but

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent

> that

> > > it

> > > > > can

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> be

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the

> promise

> > > > > given

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> by the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in

> the

> > > rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I

> have

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> observed

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both

> in

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> 12th

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in

> the

> > > rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the

> karakamsa

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> > > Chandra)

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the

> karakamsa

> > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> brought

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The

> sequence

> > > > > of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> my life

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider

> karakamsa

> > > > > lagna

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's

> opinion

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be

> considered on

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao

> always

> > > > > says.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in

> the

> > > > > Rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my

> Sukra is

> > > in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful

> house,

> > > > > and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> > > traditional

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> education).

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> > > summarize

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> that

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not

> necessarily in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the other.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K.

> N.

> > > Rao.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> First

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> there is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka

> though

> > > > > it

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered

> that in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> astrological

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be

> understood in

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> context that

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning

> karakamsha

> > > and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the

> results of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> > > karakamsha

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two

> different

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well

> versed in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention

> of

> > > mine

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> if he

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> > > results

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> > > potential

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> promised by

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the

> grahas in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> rasi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> chart,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> > > > > materialize. I

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> hope

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for

> whatever it

> > > is

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> worth.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is

> pointing to

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also

> says,Karakamsha

> > > has

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> one

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not

> pointing to

> > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are

> some

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> which

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting

> his view

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> point.

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell

> this.Sometimes

> > > > > the

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>> answer and

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded

> by

> > > > > proper

> > > > >>>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >

> > > ________

> > > > >>>>>>>> ______________

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> > > > >>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> > > previews

> > > > > at

> > > > >>>>>>>> Games.

> > > > >>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> > > <http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> > > > >>>>>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>>>>

July 8, 2007

Dear Prafulla,

Garga referred to in jyotish was not a jain muni, as he predates Mahavira.

Chandrashekhar.

Prafulla Gang wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrersekhar ji and Pradeep ji,

>

> Many thanks for refrence. Since, i do not have Deva keralam handy with

> me right now - I am not in position to quote specific shloka. But over

> the periods, I do not know - if anyone has doubted the relevance of

> Chandra kala nadi.

>

> Well, a small reference on garga - I recently heard that, many

> scholars have linked him to Jain astrology (just because Garga was

> Jain Saint). No - jainism does not have its explored Jyotish for natal

> readings) - though the references are there for constellations and

> spcific significance in its literature.

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> ************************************************

>

> >

> > chandrashekhar46

> <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>

> > Sun, 08 Jul 2007 00:45:08 +0530

> > <%40>

> > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?Quarter/Half

> > aspects

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I do not know whether you have read Chandrakalanadi Sanskrit shlokas,

> > but the reference to transit identical with the amshas of the

> > navamshesha of a bhava lord is clearly given therein. So Prafulla is

> > right.

> >

> > For the record, Garga was not considered sage like but was a sage well

> > respected by even Parashara himself.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >>

> >> Dear Prafulla ji

> >>

> >> If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

> >> talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

> >> chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in Dashadhayayi.Moreover

> >> Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

> >> chandranavmshaka rashi.

> >>

> >> Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by sagelike

> >> figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not english

> >> translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit with

> >> clear reeference to rashi.

> >>

> >> Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

> >> rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

> >> reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

> >>

> >> So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can only

> >> be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha rashi.Whether you

> >> see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka rashi,they are

> >> both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no amiguity

> >> at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

> >>

> >> Regds

> >> Pradeep

> >>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> >> wrote:

> >>>

> >>> Dear Pradeep,

> >>>

> >>> many thanks for your pointer.

> >>>

> >>> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> >> referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali

> >> and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> >> carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> >>>

> >>> I quote another reference:

> >>> Satyacharya:

> >>> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the

> >> navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> >> (conveyances). "

> >>>

> >>> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in

> >> transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred

> >> and navamsa chakras are referred.

> >>>

> >>> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document;

> >> as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts

> >> and aspects therein.

> >>>

> >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>

> >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >>> ************************************************

> >>>

> >>>>

> >>>> vijayadas_pradeep

> >>>> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> >>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >> Quarter/Half

> >>>> aspects

> >>>>

> >>>> Dear Prafulla ji

> >>>>

> >>>> The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

> >>>> check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

> >>>> mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

> >>>> etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are

> >> non-

> >>>> full aspects in rashi chart.

> >>>>

> >>>> Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji

> >> too

> >>>> had given similr explanations.

> >>>>

> >>>> Regds

> >>>> Pradeep

> >>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>> wrote:

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma

> >> has

> >>>> given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> >> aspecting

> >>>> venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

> >>>> reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current

> >> age

> >>>> scholars !!

> >>>>>

> >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> jyotish@

> >>>>>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> >>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment,

> >> be

> >>>>>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> >>>> application

> >>>>>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

> >>>>>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

> >>>>>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

> >>>> jyotish.

> >>>>>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

> >>>> then at

> >>>>>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> >> commentaries -

> >>>> but my

> >>>>>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> >>>> of " less read

> >>>>>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

> >>>> KN Rao /

> >>>>>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> >>>> not " pretend " to

> >>>>>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> >> business "

> >>>> with my

> >>>>>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

> >>>> quality

> >>>>>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >>>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> >>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> >>>>>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every

> >> one

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

> >>>> chance

> >>>>>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> >>>> argument is

> >>>>>>> right.

> >>>>>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

> >>>> you

> >>>>>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> >>>> understand

> >>>>>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> >> someone

> >>>> who

> >>>>>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> >>>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>>>>> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

> >>>>>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

> >>>> any

> >>>>>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must

> >> not

> >>>>>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

> >>>>>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

> >>>>>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> >>>>>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

> >>>> must

> >>>>>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

> >>>>>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

> >>>>>>> relevance.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> >> right

> >>>> to

> >>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> >>>>>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> >>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> >>>>>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

> >>>> like

> >>>>>>> D1

> >>>>>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> >>>>>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> >>>> planets

> >>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>> Navamasa "

> >>>>>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

> >>>> are

> >>>>>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> >>>> sages;

> >>>>>>> If

> >>>>>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

> >>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

> >>>> can be

> >>>>>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> >>>> right

> >>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> >>>>>>>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> >> important?

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> >>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

> >>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

> >>>> it

> >>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> >> amsas

> >>>> due

> >>>>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> >> overall

> >>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> >>>> importance.

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> >>>> like

> >>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

> >>>> (There

> >>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> >>>> as

> >>>>>>> if

> >>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> >> means

> >>>>>>> that.

> >>>>>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

> >>>>>>> wrong

> >>>>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>>>> mix the two.

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But

> >> yes

> >>>>>>>>> yoga in

> >>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>> result

> >>>>>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

> >>>>>>>>> applicable

> >>>>>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> >>>> considered

> >>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

> >>>> aspect

> >>>>>>> or

> >>>>>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

> >>>> chart.

> >>>>>>>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Krishnamurthy

> >> Seetharama

> >>>>>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

> >>>> chart

> >>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

> >>>> so

> >>>>>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

> >>>> what

> >>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

> >>>>>>>>>>>> important.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> >> overall

> >>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> >>>> like

> >>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> >>>> as

> >>>>>>> if

> >>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> >>>> chart, it

> >>>>>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

> >>>> equal

> >>>>>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

> >>>> What I

> >>>>>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> >> importance?

> >>>>>>> What

> >>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

> >>>> varga

> >>>>>>>>>>>> charts!

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both

> >> of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> your

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> >> valuable

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

> >>>> like

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

> >>>> alone

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> most

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> approaches

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> >>>> valuable;

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> at the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> >> separate

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

> >> since

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> any of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

> >>>> Rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

> >>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> >> several

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

> >>>> viewed

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> confirming

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> >>>> separate

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> >>>> checking

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> some

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should

> >> be

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence

> >> at

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

> >>>> Rasi.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house

> >> in

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it

> >> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> condiered

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi.

> >> Why

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

> >>>> though

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> positioning

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

> >>>> it;

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> means,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> >> weakest

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> point for

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> strength

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> >> strengths

> >>>> for

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> >> navamsa

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> position

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

> >>>> of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> them

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> same

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

> >>>> but

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that

> >> it

> >>>> can

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

> >>>> given

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> by the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

> >> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> observed

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 12th

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

> >> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> >> Chandra)

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa

> >> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> brought

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

> >>>> of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> my life

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

> >>>> lagna

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

> >>>> says.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

> >>>> Rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is

> >> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

> >>>> and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> >> traditional

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> education).

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> >> summarize

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

> >> Rao.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> First

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

> >>>> it

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> astrological

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> context that

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha

> >> and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> >> karakamsha

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of

> >> mine

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if he

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> >> results

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> >> potential

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> promised by

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> >>>> materialize. I

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hope

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it

> >> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> worth.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha

> >> has

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> one

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> which

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> point.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> answer and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

> >>>> proper

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>

> >> ________

> >>>>>>>>>>> ______________

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> >> previews

> >>>> at

> >>>>>>>>>>> Games.

> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> >> <http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>

July 9, 2007

Hi Chandrashekhar Ji,

I agree that Garga predates Mahavira. Just one clarification, Jain

religion predates Mahavira.

Thank You,

Yogesh Shah

Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

Dear Prafulla,

Garga referred to in jyotish was not a jain muni, as he predates Mahavira.

Chandrashekhar.

Prafulla Gang wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrersekhar ji and Pradeep ji,

>

> Many thanks for refrence. Since, i do not have Deva keralam handy with

> me right now - I am not in position to quote specific shloka. But over

> the periods, I do not know - if anyone has doubted the relevance of

> Chandra kala nadi.

>

> Well, a small reference on garga - I recently heard that, many

> scholars have linked him to Jain astrology (just because Garga was

> Jain Saint). No - jainism does not have its explored Jyotish for natal

> readings) - though the references are there for constellations and

> spcific significance in its literature.

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> ************************************************

>

> >

> > chandrashekhar46

> <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>

> > Sun, 08 Jul 2007 00:45:08 +0530

> > <%40>

> > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?Quarter/Half

> > aspects

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I do not know whether you have read Chandrakalanadi Sanskrit shlokas,

> > but the reference to transit identical with the amshas of the

> > navamshesha of a bhava lord is clearly given therein. So Prafulla is

> > right.

> >

> > For the record, Garga was not considered sage like but was a sage well

> > respected by even Parashara himself.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >>

> >> Dear Prafulla ji

> >>

> >> If you may note,there were couple of cases similar to what you

> >> talk,where Chandrashsekhar ji feels those as aspects in varga

> >> chakras.Those cases are clealry explained in Dashadhayayi.Moreover

> >> Chandrashekhar ji had different opinion on kemadruma and

> >> chandranavmshaka rashi.

> >>

> >> Those cases too were explined not onlyin dashadhayayi but by sagelike

> >> figures,Garga,Jeevasharma and sruthakeerthi.Those were not english

> >> translations as you have given from Devakeralam.But in Sanskrit with

> >> clear reeference to rashi.

> >>

> >> Thus ,the basic principle is amshas and amshakas roots back to

> >> rashis.Within a Rashi we have amshas of other rashis.For the same

> >> reason amshas and rashis are lorded by same planet.

> >>

> >> So what you are saying have to read in Rashi chart.Transits can only

> >> be seen w.r to Rashi chart.How do you find navamsha rashi.Whether you

> >> see it from 3.2 degre sector or from a full navamshaka rashi,they are

> >> both pointing to Rashi chakra.Thus for transits there is no amiguity

> >> at all.You can ask any Jyotishi.

> >>

> >> Regds

> >> Pradeep

> >>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> >> wrote:

> >>>

> >>> Dear Pradeep,

> >>>

> >>> many thanks for your pointer.

> >>>

> >>> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

> >> referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in Saravali

> >> and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which certainly

> >> carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

> >>>

> >>> I quote another reference:

> >>> Satyacharya:

> >>> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in the

> >> navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

> >> (conveyances). "

> >>>

> >>> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart in

> >> transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are referred

> >> and navamsa chakras are referred.

> >>>

> >>> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology document;

> >> as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D charts

> >> and aspects therein.

> >>>

> >>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>

> >>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >>> ************************************************

> >>>

> >>>>

> >>>> vijayadas_pradeep

> >>>> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

> >>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >> Quarter/Half

> >>>> aspects

> >>>>

> >>>> Dear Prafulla ji

> >>>>

> >>>> The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in Rashis.Please

> >>>> check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma clearly

> >>>> mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half aspect

> >>>> etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that these are

> >> non-

> >>>> full aspects in rashi chart.

> >>>>

> >>>> Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and Chandrashekhar ji

> >> too

> >>>> had given similr explanations.

> >>>>

> >>>> Regds

> >>>> Pradeep

> >>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>> wrote:

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan Varma

> >> has

> >>>> given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

> >> aspecting

> >>>> venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the obvious

> >>>> reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with current

> >> age

> >>>> scholars !!

> >>>>>

> >>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> jyotish@

> >>>>>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

> >>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making comment,

> >> be

> >>>>>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

> >>>> application

> >>>>>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the wrong

> >>>>>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct way).

> >>>>>> Theorists without predictive support - has little relevance in

> >>>> jyotish.

> >>>>>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case studies -

> >>>> then at

> >>>>>> least, I will hear with open mind.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

> >> commentaries -

> >>>> but my

> >>>>>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

> >>>> of " less read

> >>>>>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late Santhanam / Shri

> >>>> KN Rao /

> >>>>>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

> >>>> not " pretend " to

> >>>>>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

> >> business "

> >>>> with my

> >>>>>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following better

> >>>> quality

> >>>>>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

> >>>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

> >>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> >>>>>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts every

> >> one

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is every

> >>>> chance

> >>>>>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

> >>>> argument is

> >>>>>>> right.

> >>>>>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice - when

> >>>> you

> >>>>>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

> >>>> understand

> >>>>>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

> >> someone

> >>>> who

> >>>>>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

> >>>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>>>>> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or

> >>>>>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been

> >>>> any

> >>>>>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must

> >> not

> >>>>>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better

> >>>>>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum

> >>>>>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

> >>>>>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people -

> >>>> must

> >>>>>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit

> >>>>>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any

> >>>>>>> relevance.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> >> right

> >>>> to

> >>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> >>>>>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

> >>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

> >>>>>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just

> >>>> like

> >>>>>>> D1

> >>>>>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

> >>>>>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of

> >>>> planets

> >>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>> Navamasa "

> >>>>>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets

> >>>> are

> >>>>>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the

> >>>> sages;

> >>>>>>> If

> >>>>>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa

> >>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts -

> >>>> can be

> >>>>>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>

> <http://www.prafulla.net <http://www.prafulla.net>>

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the

> >>>> right

> >>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

> >>>>>>>>>> ************************************************

> >>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> sreesog@

> >>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>

> >>>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> >> important?

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

> >>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa

> >>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because

> >>>> it

> >>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other

> >> amsas

> >>>> due

> >>>>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> >> overall

> >>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

> >>>> importance.

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> >>>> like

> >>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa.

> >>>> (There

> >>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> >>>> as

> >>>>>>> if

> >>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only

> >> means

> >>>>>>> that.

> >>>>>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is

> >>>>>>> wrong

> >>>>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>>>> mix the two.

> >>>>>>>>>>> ==>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> >>>>>>>>>>> <==

> >>>>>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But

> >> yes

> >>>>>>>>> yoga in

> >>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>> result

> >>>>>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not

> >>>>>>>>> applicable

> >>>>>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

> >>>> considered

> >>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about

> >>>> aspect

> >>>>>>> or

> >>>>>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi

> >>>> chart.

> >>>>>>>>>>> Love,

> >>>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Krishnamurthy

> >> Seetharama

> >>>>>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa

> >>>> chart

> >>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience

> >>>> so

> >>>>>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood

> >>>> what

> >>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so

> >>>>>>>>>>>> important.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

> >> overall

> >>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart

> >>>> like

> >>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated

> >>>> as

> >>>>>>> if

> >>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

> >>>> chart, it

> >>>>>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two

> >>>> equal

> >>>>>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart.

> >>>> What I

> >>>>>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

> >> importance?

> >>>>>>> What

> >>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many

> >>>> varga

> >>>>>>>>>>>> charts!

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both

> >> of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> your

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> contributions.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

> >> valuable

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would

> >>>> like

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart

> >>>> alone

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> most

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> approaches

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

> >>>> valuable;

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> at the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

> >> separate

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart (of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart),

> >> since

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> any of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the

> >>>> Rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi

> >>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

> >> several

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas

> >>>> viewed

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> confirming

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

> >>>> separate

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

> >>>> checking

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> some

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> navamsa

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should

> >> be

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence

> >> at

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of

> >>>> Rasi.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house

> >> in

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it

> >> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> condiered

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi.

> >> Why

> >>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even

> >>>> though

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> positioning

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened

> >>>> it;

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> means,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

> >> weakest

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> point for

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> strength

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

> >> strengths

> >>>> for

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

> >> navamsa

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> position

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one

> >>>> of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> them

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> same

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa;

> >>>> but

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that

> >> it

> >>>> can

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise

> >>>> given

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> by the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the

> >> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> observed

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 12th

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the

> >> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

> >> Chandra)

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa

> >> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> brought

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence

> >>>> of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> my life

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa

> >>>> lagna

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> here; I am

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always

> >>>> says.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the

> >>>> Rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is

> >> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the 4th

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house,

> >>>> and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

> >> traditional

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> education).

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

> >> summarize

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> isolation of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> <%40>

> >> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N.

> >> Rao.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> First

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though

> >>>> it

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> astrological

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> context that

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha

> >> and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation of

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

> >> karakamsha

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> parameters.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of

> >> mine

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if he

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

> >> results

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated on

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

> >> potential

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> promised by

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

> >>>> materialize. I

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hope

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion on

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it

> >> is

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> worth.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha

> >> has

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> one

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to

> >> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> shlokas

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> which

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> point.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes

> >>>> the

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> answer and

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by

> >>>> proper

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>

> >> ________

> >>>>>>>>>>> ______________

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

> >>>>>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

> >> previews

> >>>> at

> >>>>>>>>>>> Games.

> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> >> <http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

> >>>>>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>>>

July 9, 2007

Dear Bhaskar ji

A small addendum:

It is the onus of the participating members, pronouncing new interpretation

(perhaps from translation and their personal application) on Varga charts - to

produce the white paper; not on the persons (including me), who are referring to

works of Late Santhanam, Late BV Raman, KN Rao, Sanjay Rath, CS Patel, VK

Choudhy etc. It looks to me, as if - instead of Shri Pradeep providing

submission of examples / applications - we are providing proffs of this

reference.

It imples that - Late Santhanam, Late BV Raman, KN Rao, Sanjay Rath, CS Patel

etc have not formulated their opinion on Varga chart out of thin air.

Understandably, these great available astrologers must have done their job

sincerely. and my contentions are that - can all go wrong? If people who have

spent their life over the decades have made blunder, then - are we not in

serious trouble as followers?

If Shri Pradeep is trying to explain sanskrit driven interpretation - to less

knowledgeable sanskrit readers; then either he is amongst the wrong set of

audience - for this thread. If not, then let us wait until, he chooses to

explain with the examples in predictions.

My sincere request to Shri Pradeep that - instead of all of us going into

circles - he guides us through the case studies and predictive applications. I

hope, we get those predicitve analysis soon, and then - who knows? even - all

those great writers repent for their historical blunder?

regards / Prafulla Gang

A little boost to the ego is undeniably exhilarating, but ask yourself if the

initial excitement is worth the spiritual hangover. Remind yourself that real

self-esteem is built on more substantial activities.

In order to live free and happily - you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always

an easy sacrifice.

************************************************

>

> bhaskar_jyotish

> Sun, 08 Jul 2007 08:17:08 -0000

>

> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?Quarter/Half aspects

>

> Dear Good Members,

>

> This thread is now leading to want of proof and

> counter proof,and demands for the same. Though

> you people are good,and will mantain decorum in

> your exchanges, yet difference of opinions would

> create unnecessary camps and partitions. This

> difference would take a long time to be removed

> from the insides,and may reflect in other new

> exchanges too, before it goes out of hand,

> Whether you should continue or not,I leave

> upto you. When consensus is not obtained, it

> is better to let matters remain and be, and

> the prowess of each may be shown in predictive

> matters,rather than on theoretical treatises,

> on which umpteen references can be provided by

> each party to support their claims,which

> would still not lead nowhere and can be continued

> for another dozen years too without recourse to

> authentic proof of conclusions, obtained as

> the final truth. Voluntarily quitting from

> these exchanges would be the best solution

> for the present.

>

> My last unasked for advise to you, on this matter.

>

> best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

__________

GET FREE 5GB EMAIL - Check out spam free email with many cool features!

Visit http://www.inbox.com/email to find out more!

July 9, 2007

Dear Pradeep ji

Further:

As I explained - In my limited participation, I have not seen Shri Chandrasekhar

much predicting on this forum. So I am not familiar with his interpretation

model (as to what he has chosen to explain - e.g. the partial aspects - does he

apply that himself consistently for the successful predictions). Hence, it is

not prudent for me to comment upon his explanation.

I appreciate his efforts for explaining partial aspects to Shri RR (ref Kalyan

Varma - sun/merc venus merc etc).

Do not push me to accept anyonbe's statement as conclusive - unless, we see them

working.

I will quote you Santhanam's acceptance of Navamsha Chakra and use of it in a

seperate thread.

regards / Prafulla Gang

A little boost to the ego is undeniably exhilarating, but ask yourself if the

initial excitement is worth the spiritual hangover. Remind yourself that real

self-esteem is built on more substantial activities.

In order to live free and happily - you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always

an easy sacrifice.

************************************************

>

> vijayadas_pradeep

> Sun, 08 Jul 2007 14:56:25 -0000

>

> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?Quarter/Half

> aspects

>

> Dear shri Prafulla

>

> You can respect shri Ranjan as well as any other astrologer.

> My point was,shri Ranjan too had raised this doubt and

> Chandrashekhar ji explained to him that they are not full aspects.

> If you read Kalyan Varma he is talking about aspects in Rashis

> there.He had explained quarter,half aspects ect elsewhere.

> Shri Raojis or shri Ranjans views are respected.But it does not

> prevent us from having a rellok at the basics,especially as authors

> praised and extolld by prashna marga feels in a different way.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

> , " Prafulla Gang " <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Pradeep,

>>

>> further to my earlier note:

>>

>> RR's opinion personally matters to me - because, I rate him

> highly.

>> But his opinion (from the article quoted) and other articles

>> (specially the navamsha route for sade sati rationale) do not hint

>> that, he disapproves D9 chakra (as you have contested).

>>

>> Well, I am not experienced with Shri Chandrasekhar ji's writings

>> much as yet, so am not competent to comment on his predictive

> model

>> (in conformity with your point of view).

>>

>> regards / Prafulla

>>

>> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

>> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

>>>

>>> Dear Prafulla ji

>>>

>>> I was not talking about shri Ranjans view.

>>> Shri Ranjan too had this doubt (aspects sun/venus etc) and

>>> Chandrashekhar ji corrected him.

>>>

>>> If you can give sanskrit shlokas all can chack -not only me any

>>> scholar.If you rememer when me and shri Narasimha were

> discussing

>> he

>>> could only give Lagna shadvargake as example.Thus you can think.

>>>

>>> Also you can ask anyone if a chart is needed to know about amsha

>>> transits.Even if you see 3.2 degree sector or the corresponding

>> root

>>> rashi,they are in rashi chakra.

>>>

>>> Regds

>>> Pradeep

>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>

>>>> many thanks for your pointer.

>>>>

>>>> Well, kalyan Varma must have hinted at partial aspect - while

>>> referring to D chart aspect. let me search for reference in

>> Saravali

>>> and also search for Shri Rohini Ranjan's opinion (which

> certainly

>>> carries more weight than my layman's opinion ) and revert back.

>>>>

>>>> I quote another reference:

>>>> Satyacharya:

>>>> " " As mercury and venus are in kendra (i.e. angular rashis) in

>> the

>>> navamsa chakra from each other, the native possess Vahanas

>>> (conveyances). "

>>>>

>>>> There are huge references in Deva Keralam - on use of D9 chart

>> in

>>> transit analysis as well natal analysis - where aspects are

>> referred

>>> and navamsa chakras are referred.

>>>>

>>>> BPHS in current version - may not be conclusive astrology

>> document;

>>> as many equally respectable sages - have referred the use of D

>> charts

>>> and aspects therein.

>>>>

>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>

>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>> ************************************************

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep@

>>>>> Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:04:44 -0000

>>>>>

>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important?

>>> Quarter/Half

>>>>> aspects

>>>>>

>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji

>>>>>

>>>>> The mentioned aspects are clearly for placement in

>> Rashis.Please

>>>>> check Saravali again.Also in another chapter Kalyan Varma

>> clearly

>>>>> mentions about every planet having ,quarter aspect,half

> aspect

>>>>> etc,apart from full aspect.Thus it is pretty clear that

> these

>> are

>>> non-

>>>>> full aspects in rashi chart.

>>>>>

>>>>> Shri Ranjan did raise this question before and

> Chandrashekhar

>> ji

>>> too

>>>>> had given similr explanations.

>>>>>

>>>>> Regds

>>>>> Pradeep

>>>>>

>>>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Another important issue - In D9 charts reference - kalyan

>> Varma

>>> has

>>>>> given hints for results for Sun aspecting venus; or mercury

>>> aspecting

>>>>> venus. Since they can never " aspect " in Rashi Kundli - the

>> obvious

>>>>> reference was to Navamsa " chart " .

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I do not think, kalyan varma can be treated at par with

>> current

>>> age

>>>>> scholars !!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

>>>>>>

>>>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> jyotish@

>>>>>>> Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:23:15 -0800

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

> important?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Well - who knows the truth? - Should the person making

>> comment,

>>> be

>>>>>>> construed to be as truth seeker - until they prove with the

>>>>> application

>>>>>>> of the principles on the charts ( both ways - firstly the

>> wrong

>>>>>>> application of others; and secondly how to read in correct

>> way).

>>>>>>> Theorists without predictive support - has little

> relevance

>> in

>>>>> jyotish.

>>>>>>> But yes - if you can justify your statements by case

>> studies -

>>>>> then at

>>>>>>> least, I will hear with open mind.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Understandably, I have been quoted to be " blind " to

>>> commentaries -

>>>>> but my

>>>>>>> submission is that - give me one reason to accept the views

>>>>> of " less read

>>>>>>> scholars " than to " well read scholars like Late

> Santhanam /

>> Shri

>>>>> KN Rao /

>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay rath / many others " . and More so - as I do

>>>>> not " pretend " to

>>>>>>> know the sanskrit and do not " waste " my time on " shloka

>>> business "

>>>>> with my

>>>>>>> " incomplete knowledge " . So I am happy to be following

> better

>>>>> quality

>>>>>>> commentaries - who are expalining with the case studies.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Of course - each one makes his choice.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> " Men who never get carried away should be. "

>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>> Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:00:31 -0000

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

>> important?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>>>> * Even if those things are not there in ancient texts

>> every

>>> one

>>>>> is

>>>>>>>> free to make or follow there own choice - yes, there is

>> every

>>>>> chance

>>>>>>>> that even such new methods might give true results - your

>>>>> argument is

>>>>>>>> right.

>>>>>>>> * As far Sanskrit is concerned: Yes, it is your choice -

>> when

>>>>> you

>>>>>>>> are blind to read and understand Sanskrit your self, and

>>>>> understand

>>>>>>>> what is there and what not, of course you have to follow

>>> someone

>>>>> who

>>>>>>>> says they see - you are right in that as well.

>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang

>> <jyotish@>

>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice

> or

>>>>>>>> prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there

> not

>> been

>>>>> any

>>>>>>>> substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts

>> must

>>> not

>>>>>>>> have explored it - and I presume - many of them know

> better

>>>>>>>> sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the

> forum

>>>>>>>> collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the

>>>>>>>> interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the

>> people -

>>>>> must

>>>>>>>> be debated with. On the forum, where not many great

> sanskrit

>>>>>>>> scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not

> have

>> any

>>>>>>>> relevance.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include

> the

>>> right

>>>>> to

>>>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

>> important?

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Dear Prafulla ji,

>>>>>>>>>> * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not

>> chart) " just

>>>>> like

>>>>>>>> D1

>>>>>>>>>> chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same.

>>>>>>>>>> * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects

> of

>>>>> planets

>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>> Navamasa "

>>>>>>>>>> * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when

>> planets

>>>>> are

>>>>>>>>>> placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna "

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by

> the

>>>>> sages;

>>>>>>>> If

>>>>>>>>>> not I don't have anything to say.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> , Prafulla Gang

>> <jyotish@>

>>>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using

> navamsa

>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9

>> charts -

>>>>> can be

>>>>>>>>>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1

>> chart.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> I request members to share their experience.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.prafulla.net

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include

> the

>>>>> right

>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>> be taken seriously. "

>>>>>>>>>>> ************************************************

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> sreesog@

>>>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so

>>> important?

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Krishna ji,

>>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart.

>>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa.

>> Navamsa

>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be,

>> because

>>>>> it

>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than

> other

>>> amsas

>>>>> due

>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>>> the prior said reasons.

>>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

>>> overall

>>>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the

>> strength of

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their

>>>>> importance.

>>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

>> chart

>>>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in

>> Navamsa.

>>>>> (There

>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.)

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

>> treated

>>>>> as

>>>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it

> only

>>> means

>>>>>>>> that.

>>>>>>>>>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that.

>> It is

>>>>>>>> wrong

>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>>> mix the two.

>>>>>>>>>>>> ==>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

>> well?

>>>>>>>>>>>> <==

>>>>>>>>>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'.

>> But

>>> yes

>>>>>>>>>> yoga in

>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga.

>> Because it

>>>>> is

>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to

>> predict

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>> result

>>>>>>>>>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are

>> not

>>>>>>>>>> applicable

>>>>>>>>>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be

>>>>> considered

>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts

> about

>>>>> aspect

>>>>>>>> or

>>>>>>>>>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to

> Rasi

>>>>> chart.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Love,

>>>>>>>>>>>> Sreenadh

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>> , Krishnamurthy

>>> Seetharama

>>>>>>>>>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on

> importance

>> of

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that

> Navamsa

>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my

>> experience

>>>>> so

>>>>>>>>>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not

>> understood

>>>>> what

>>>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being

> so

>>>>>>>>>>>>> important.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the

>>> overall

>>>>>>>>>>>>> strength of a planet?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa

>> chart

>>>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be

>> treated

>>>>> as

>>>>>>>> if

>>>>>>>>>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as

>> well?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa

>>>>> chart, it

>>>>>>>>>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make

> up

>> two

>>>>> equal

>>>>>>>>>>>>> halves representing the native.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa

> Chart.

>>>>> What I

>>>>>>>>>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an

>>> importance?

>>>>>>>> What

>>>>>>>>>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of

>> many

>>>>> varga

>>>>>>>>>>>>> charts!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and

>> both

>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributions.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your

>>> valuable

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I

>> would

>>>>> like

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa

>> chart

>>>>> alone

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found

> both

>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approaches

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very

>>>>> valuable;

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as

>>> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart (of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi

> chart),

>>> since

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results

> if

>> the

>>>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the

>> Rasi

>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in

>>> several

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that

>> yogas

>>>>> viewed

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa

> chart

>> for

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confirming

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a

>>>>> separate

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of

>>>>> checking

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects)

>> in

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana

>> should

>>> be

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual

>> influence

>>> at

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg.

> span.

>> of

>>>>> Rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own

>> house

>>> in

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa

> chart,

>> it

>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> condiered

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the

>> Rasi.

>>> Why

>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because,

>> even

>>>>> though

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positioning

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has

>> weakened

>>>>> it;

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the

>>> weakest

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point for

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it

> loses

>> its

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strength

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of

>>> strengths

>>>>> for

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The

>>> navamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement

>> within

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to

>> both

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rasi and

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak

> in

>> one

>>>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not

>> give

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to

>> Navamsa;

>>>>> but

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent

>> that

>>> it

>>>>> can

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the

> promise

>>>>> given

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi chart).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in

> the

>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I

>> have

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observed

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both

>> in

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12th

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in

> the

>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the

>> karakamsa

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lagna). I am

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by

>>> Chandra)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the

>> karakamsa

>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The

>> sequence

>>>>> of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my life

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider

>> karakamsa

>>>>> lagna

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's

>> opinion

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here; I am

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be

>> considered on

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao

>> always

>>>>> says.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in

>> the

>>>>> Rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my

> Sukra

>> is

>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 4th

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful

>> house,

>>>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other

>>> traditional

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to

>>> summarize

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not

> necessarily

>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isolation of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K.

> N.

>>> Rao.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka

>> though

>>>>> it

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered

> that

>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astrological

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be

> understood

>> in

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context that

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning

>> karakamsha

>>> and

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the

>> results of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation of

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in

>>> karakamsha

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adhyaaya.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two

> different

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parameters.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well

>> versed in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention

>> of

>>> mine

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if he

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> watching this discussion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the

>>> results

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated on

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the

>>> potential

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promised by

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the

>> grahas in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rasi

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chart,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to

>>>>> materialize. I

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion on

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for

> whatever

>> it

>>> is

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is

> pointing

>> to

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also

>> says,Karakamsha

>>> has

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not

> pointing

>> to

>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rashi

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are

>> some

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shlokas

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting

> his

>> view

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell

>> this.Sometimes

>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer and

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded

> by

>>>>> proper

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>> === message truncated ===

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>

>>

> ___________________

>> _

>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and

>>> previews

>>>>> at

>>>>>>>>>>>> Games.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>

July 9, 2007

Dear Shri Chandrasekhar ji

You are right. I have seen successful case studies of using logitudes in Navamsa

chart and other D charts.

regards / Prafulla Gang