Guest guest Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 *Om mahaganapataye namah* Dear Pradeep ji, You have authored many articles in Astrological Magazine.Your discussions have been often illuminating; I have not understood this mail, although it has been addressed to Someone else. I became interested because it was from your pen. 1. Which discussion you have referred to in this group, I could not make out. 2. I was recently reading commentry by Prof PS Shastri.I understand You are referring to sutra " Paparkshe Mande KshudraDevtasu " His translation is at variance to your mention.You are taking raksha as Rasi and saying papa rasi and saturn,whereas Shri PS shastri translates this sutra " If the twelfth from the Karkamsa is owned by a malefic and if Saturn is there,one is devoted to evil spirits. " Let us see some others how they translate this sutra. Prof BS Rao translates it as " If sani occupies the karkamsa falling in an evil sign,the person becomes a great devotee of evil spirits.In his notes he states " There are Devil and spirit worshipers of various grades.The existence of spirit world has been proved by the best intellects and by PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.A handful of experience is worth ten cart loads of Theories. Now I give translation from another commentator for this verse 'Pdt Sita ram sharma " Twelfth has papa rasi and it has saturn OR venus Than he is devotee of kshudra devata( pishach,YakshRaksha etc).Let us see one more commentryby Kasi ram ji he translates it as " If in Navamsa of Atamakarka has malefic rasi and is conjoined with saturn he will be a devotee of Karna pischadi " So kasi ram and Sita ram are saying what you quote.Right sir. Now I come to commentry of Pdt Rath His translation is " Saturn in the twelfth house in a malefic sign shows inclination for black magic, devilish worship and spirits. Enough of commentries.We can go on and get confused for Neelkanth, and many others commentators are still left. Now your view point if I can understand is Rider that papa rasi and saturn placement is a qualifier of Karakamsa Rasi.It is not clear, what you mean to say.perhaps you mean to say Karkamsa should be a malefic sign occupied by Saturn : then only one should conclude that a person is a worshipper of devils etc. The proof of pudding lies in eating it.Sir, did you check, application of this rules. I have authentic data of about five devotees of Kshudra devata ,unluckly I am not able to quote at the moment and will post if I get my file. Instances are many but I wish to proceed further.You have said Varga of sukra and Mars are mentioned in the Rasi, which is second to swamsa/Karakamsha. PROF PSS has also commented In fact He did say That Second and fifth are similar to Swamsa/karkamsa ..Perhaps You are referring to Sutra 52 of same chapter that says " When the second from Karakamsa has the vargas of Mars and venus, one will be fond of others ' wife or Husbands. Notes says Vargas are seven But six are usually considered. Sutra 53 also is related This sutra talks of Mars and Venus together are in second from Karakamsa or when they jointly aspect it, this adultry persists till end of life.The notes given by shastri are confusing to this sutra I am not quoting it. These sutra has stood application But I could not follow Which exercise of rectification of Rath you are mentioning about. You also mention Though to consider aspect is wrong from a such a disposition What in fact you intend to say is not clear. Prof PSS has given a rider These rules have to be interpreted liberally, the planet concerned may not be insecond from Karkamsa.They can have a mutual association by conjunction/association or aspect.He has illustrated by Example 25 and 27 his contension. I don't know What You intend to say.To my mind Argument held that classics do not mention reckning of houses from Navamsa lagna or Karakamsa and even the drawing of Divisional charts is not mentioned. And so teachings are wrong? May be you could be right or I am getting contents of your postings wrong. Second house shows eating consuming as you know,so if Venus or Mras owns it, the native is sexually hungry.it is applicable to Navamsa lagna in pisces, aries and to Virgo and Libra. See the chart of famous Lesbian:DOB 26 march 1952 TOB 17:29( 6 West) 87W39, 41N51. I have tried to understand your mail, But I suppose I am not getting Your arguments.Would love to understand your point of argument If you have inclination to educate me. With kind regards. swamircs. Karakamsha - SJC Posted by: " vijayadas_pradeep " vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:35 pm (PST) Dear Shri Narasimha Rao If you have been following the discussions, kindly give your opinion on the evident sutra starting with - Paparkshe Mande - where Papa Rashi and Saturns placement has been clealry mentioned as qualifiers of Karakamsha Rashi. It is not at all required from your part to reply to my mail or give explanations.When students,i don't know how many,have been taught the other way,i feel when found wrong,it may be a moral right to correct them. Moreover in another sutra -Varga of Shukra and Mars are mentioned in the rashi, which is second to swamsha/karakamsha.We cannot say it depends on how we translate sutras.As Sutras follow a logical order, the sequence is the very deciding factor. If we see the rectification exercise on your navamsha,shri Rath is mentioning about planet Venus being aspected by Mars(Though to consider aspect is wrong from a such a disposition).We all know the role Mars and Venus plays,if we have studied such combinations present in numerous charts.Such being a case it should be pretty clear,to Mr.Rath and you that sage is mentioning about Mars and Venus having Varga in the 2nd from Karakamsha Rashi. As you know there are many students who place tremendous faith in the Gurus.With great ''power'' comes , great responsibilties. Erring,especially in a divine and oceanous shasthra like Jyotish is ok and nobody is infallible.But if we are not willing to correct our mistakes,then what moral right do we have to criticize the scientists who are criticizing astrology.If the Guru is not correcting who will do it? Shri Sanjay Rath rightly identifies the term amshaka.If you are having any malayalee friends, you may verify how the ''navamsha chakra'' is termed in a hand written horoscope.It is called AMSHAKAM. Even if you do not want to reply, kindly give a thought, during a satwa muhurhta. Satyameva Jayathe Thanks and Best Regds Pradeep Dear Friends,For remedies and readings please visit http://www.kaalvastu.com as we have closed http://www.cosmograce.com ---------------------- R.C.Srivastava Consultation-Service E-mail : swami_rcs http://www.kaalvastu.com http://www.cosmograce.blogspot.com Ph 91-562- 2232323 and 4001223 Mob 9412268768 -- Oh Creator Of The Universe ! We meditate upon thy radiant power that illuminate our intellects, destroy our sins, and guide us in the right direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Dear SWAMI JI You have misunderstood me for some learned soul.I have not written any articles for Astrological Magaqzine.Let your words come true in the future,if Lords grace is there,so that i could share my views with a wider audience. Now thank you very much for all the quotes.It is so kind of you.I agree that 12th can be meant ,especially as Parashara and Vayaya were quoted by Chandrashekhar ji. As you know in sutras this 12th will be defined upfront and will become applicable for subsequent shlokas.Thus Paparkshe still means malefic Rashi. Now as you have seen majority of them uses Shadvarge while a few are happy with navamsha.Shadvarga is possible and correct as plural (varge) is mentioned and i have explained them in my previous mails. Also Sutras 52 and 53,that you are mentioning have also been explained in the previous mails.I hope i need not repeat the same here. Please think which is logical for better results - a rashi or planet?.Sage is talking about amshas in one case while placement and aspect in the other. Houses can be reckoned from any LAGNA.LAGNA is always a full Rashi.Be it Navamsha Lagna or Karakaamsha Lagna or BHava Lagna or Arudha Lagna.Only dispute is from the navamsha arrangement ,you are not seeing placements and aspects can never be considered.When you say 5th from navamsha lagna or planet aspecting navamsha lagna,analysis done w.r to ''navamsha arrangement'' is incomplete and missing the main placement as far as 5th is considered and wrong as far as aspect is considered.One will totally miss the real aspect on navamsha lagna.The key is amshas relate to Rashis. My studies in a chart are purely based on this technique.Classical texts with non english interpretations are explaining this concept beyond doubt.Shri Rath did understand this to a certain extent while talking about amshaka. I will try to record my understanding ,if possible a video recording so that i can visually demonstrate with the help of charts.I need time and hence cannot promise. Thanks for your valuable time. Kind Regds Pradeep > *Om mahaganapataye namah* > > Dear Pradeep ji, > > You have authored many articles in Astrological Magazine.Your discussions have been often illuminating; I have not understood this mail, although it has been addressed to Someone else. > > I became interested because it was from your pen. > > 1. Which discussion you have referred to in this group, I could not make out. > > 2. I was recently reading commentry by Prof PS Shastri.I understand You are referring to sutra > > " Paparkshe Mande KshudraDevtasu " His translation is at variance to your mention.You are taking raksha as Rasi and saying papa rasi and saturn,whereas Shri PS shastri translates this sutra " If the twelfth from the Karkamsa is owned by a malefic and if Saturn is there,one is devoted to evil spirits. " Let us see some others how they translate this sutra. Prof BS Rao translates it as " If sani occupies the karkamsa falling in an evil sign,the person becomes a great devotee of evil spirits.In his notes he states " There are Devil and spirit worshipers of various grades.The existence of spirit world has been proved by the best intellects and by PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.A handful of experience is worth ten cart loads of Theories. Now I give translation from another commentator for this verse 'Pdt Sita ram sharma " Twelfth has papa rasi and it has saturn OR venus Than he is devotee of kshudra devata( pishach,YakshRaksha etc).Let us see one more commentryby Kasi ram ji he translates it as " If in Navamsa of Atamakarka has malefic rasi and is conjoined with saturn he will be a devotee of Karna pischadi " > > So kasi ram and Sita ram are saying what you quote.Right sir. > > Now I come to commentry of Pdt Rath His translation is " Saturn in the twelfth house in a malefic sign shows inclination for black magic, devilish worship and spirits. > > Enough of commentries.We can go on and get confused for Neelkanth, and many others commentators are still left. > > Now your view point if I can understand is Rider that papa rasi and saturn placement is a qualifier of Karakamsa Rasi.It is not clear, what you mean to say.perhaps you mean to say > > Karkamsa should be a malefic sign occupied by Saturn : then only one should conclude that a person is a worshipper of devils etc. > > The proof of pudding lies in eating it.Sir, did you check, application of this rules. > > I have authentic data of about five devotees of Kshudra devata ,unluckly I am not able to quote at the moment and will post if I get my file. > > > > Instances are many but I wish to proceed further.You have said Varga of sukra and Mars are mentioned in the Rasi, which is second to swamsa/Karakamsha. PROF PSS has also commented > > In fact He did say That Second and fifth are similar to Swamsa/karkamsa .Perhaps You are referring to Sutra 52 of same chapter that says " When the second from Karakamsa has the vargas of Mars and venus, one will be fond of others ' wife or Husbands. > > Notes says Vargas are seven But six are usually considered. Sutra 53 also is related This sutra talks of Mars and Venus together are in second from Karakamsa or when they jointly aspect it, this adultry persists till end of life.The notes given by shastri are confusing to this sutra I am not quoting it. > > These sutra has stood application But I could not follow Which exercise of rectification of Rath you are mentioning about. You also mention Though to consider aspect is wrong from a such a disposition What in fact you intend to say is not clear. > > Prof PSS has given a rider These rules have to be interpreted liberally, the planet concerned may not be insecond from Karkamsa.They can have a mutual association by conjunction/association or aspect.He has illustrated by Example 25 and 27 his contension. > > I don't know What You intend to say.To my mind Argument held that classics do not mention reckning of houses from Navamsa lagna or Karakamsa and even the drawing of Divisional charts is not mentioned. And so teachings are wrong? May be you could be right or I am getting contents of your postings wrong. > > Second house shows eating consuming as you know,so if Venus or Mras owns it, the native is sexually hungry.it is applicable to Navamsa lagna in pisces, aries and to Virgo and Libra. > > See the chart of famous Lesbian:DOB 26 march 1952 TOB 17:29( 6 West) 87W39, 41N51. > > > > I have tried to understand your mail, But I suppose I am not getting Your arguments.Would love to understand your point of argument If you have inclination to educate me. > > With kind regards. > > swamircs. > > > > Karakamsha - SJC > > Posted by: " vijayadas_pradeep " vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep > > Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:35 pm (PST) > > Dear Shri Narasimha Rao > If you have been following the discussions, kindly give your opinion on the evident sutra starting with - Paparkshe Mande - where Papa Rashi and Saturns placement has been clealry mentioned as qualifiers of Karakamsha Rashi. > It is not at all required from your part to reply to my mail or give explanations.When students,i don't know how many,have been taught the other way,i feel when found wrong,it may be a moral right to correct them. > Moreover in another sutra -Varga of Shukra and Mars are mentioned in the rashi, which is second to swamsha/karakamsha.We cannot say it depends on how we translate sutras.As Sutras follow a logical order, the sequence is the very deciding factor. > If we see the rectification exercise on your navamsha,shri Rath is mentioning about planet Venus being aspected by Mars(Though to consider aspect is wrong from a such a disposition).We all know the role Mars and Venus plays,if we have studied such combinations present in numerous charts.Such being a case it should be pretty clear,to Mr.Rath and you that sage is mentioning about Mars and Venus having Varga in the 2nd from Karakamsha Rashi. > As you know there are many students who place tremendous faith in the Gurus.With great ''power'' comes , great responsibilties. Erring,especially in a divine and oceanous shasthra like Jyotish is ok and nobody is infallible.But if we are not willing to correct our mistakes,then what moral right do we have to criticize the scientists who are criticizing astrology.If the Guru is not correcting who will do it? > Shri Sanjay Rath rightly identifies the term amshaka.If you are having any malayalee friends, you may verify how the ''navamsha chakra'' is termed in a hand written horoscope.It is called AMSHAKAM. > Even if you do not want to reply, kindly give a thought, during a satwa muhurhta. > Satyameva Jayathe Thanks and Best Regds Pradeep > > > > Dear Friends,For remedies and readings please visit http://www.kaalvastu.com as we have closed http://www.cosmograce.com > ---------------------- > R.C.Srivastava > Consultation-Service > E-mail : swami_rcs > http://www.kaalvastu.com > http://www.cosmograce.blogspot.com > Ph 91-562- 2232323 and 4001223 > Mob 9412268768 > > -- > Oh Creator Of The Universe ! We meditate upon thy radiant power that illuminate our intellects, destroy our sins, and guide us in the right direction > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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