Placental Supply is crucial for Smooth Changeover

> > > > >

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

=39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

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> > > > -

> > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 -

> > Release

> > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

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> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 -

Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

March 8, 2007

On 3/8/07, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Even though i agree with your point that as first breath is drawn

> and with the act happening through lungs,a new birth happens ,total

> natural independency not being achieved until the cessation of

> placental supply,is keeping ones curiousity alive.

Dear Sri Pradeep,

The first lung fill should be birth enough. Although a parallel oxygen

supply exists for a small phase, pulmonary oxygenation virtually renders

that supply superfluous. After all, we don't make adjustments in dashas if

someone dies for a couple of hours during a cardiac bypass, where a

ventilator steps in as fuel pump. There isn't natural independence there

either.

Interestingly, the umbilicus tract inside the body disintegrates rather

quickly and the only other time you see it - literally - is when you see

stars. The starlike patterns within the vitreous humor are are its debris

Cheers,

Ramapriya

March 8, 2007

Dear Pradeep,

I can see your point of view. One has also to remember that it is Saturn

who is Ayush karaka and he rules over air. Again generally, if my

understanding is right, the umbilical cord is cut and then the baby's

nostrils etc. are cleared of mucous, properly and sometimes the baby is

held upside down, to initiate its first breath. This added to the fact

of the different meanings of word Prana, lead me to the conclusion that

drawal of the first breath is the moment of birth, especially as no one

can manipulate that moment by mechanical intervention.

But then as I said this is my personal opinion.

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

>

> Thanks for the mail and sorry for the delayed reply.You have

> mentioned a very valid point ''the breath that one draws in is

> called prana''.Before birth ''Prana'' drawn in by mother sustains

> the baby.

>

> It seems even after birth,the human system is designed,to

> facilitate,continuation of placental blood and oxygen supply.It has

> a vital role as well.

> After the delivery of the child, and before delivery of the

> placenta,the oxygen supply changes from the placenta to the lungs.

> During normal changeover, placental oxygenation continues until

> pulmonary oxygenation is established.

>

> During normal changeover, the brain is not deprived of oxygen and

> placental blood is transfused into the child, increasing its blood

> volume, through the lungs augmented by ventilation to establish

> pulmonary oxygenation.After pulmonary oxygenation is

> established,placental oxygenation ceases - the cord vessels close;

> the brain's oxygen supply is not interrupted.On the other hand - if

> the baby is deprived of placental supply,it can very well result in

> brain damage and further complications.

>

> '' " [Nature] has arranged it so that during the dangerous passage of

> birth, the child is receiving oxygen from two sources rather than

> one:from the lungs and from the umbilicus. Two systems functioning

> simultaneously, one relieving the other: the old one, the

> umbilicus,continues to supply oxygen to the baby until the new one,

> the lungs, has fully taken its place. However, once the infant has

> been born and delivered from the mother, it remains bound to her by

> this umbilicus, which continues to beat for several long minutes:

> four . . . five .. . sometimes more. Oxygenated by the umbilicus,

> sheltered from anoxia, the baby can settle into breathing without

> danger and without shock. At leisure. .. . In addition, the blood

> has plenty of time to abandon its old route (which leads to the

> placenta) and progressively to fill the pulmonary circulatory

> system. During this time, in parallel fashion, an orifice closes in

> the heart, which seals off the old route forever. In

> short, for an average of four or five minutes, the newborn infant

> straddles two worlds. Drawing oxygen from two sources, it switches

> gradually from the one to the other, without a brutal transition''.

>

> The above stated ''no mans land (cricketing parlance) '' during the

> first few minutes is my concern.

>

> Even though i agree with your point that as first breath is drawn

> and with the act happening through lungs,a new birth happens ,total

> natural independency not being achieved until the cessation of

> placental supply,is keeping ones curiousity alive.

>

> It is not a disagreement,but i am providing all the facts so

> that ,we are not missing out on any.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > There is a difference in the manner that oxygen is assimilated in

> a

> > baby's body through placenta and through intake of breath. In the

> former

> > it is the oxygen that is already absorbed in mother's blood that

> is

> > transmitted to the baby through blood via the navel where the

> umbilical

> > connects to the baby. In the later it is through the lungs that

> the

> > oxygen is absorbed to be further absorbed in blood. If you

> remember it

> > is the breath that one draws in that is Called Prana (also meaning

> > life). That is why it is very much safe to ignore the parallel

> oxygen

> > supply as the media is different. Or at least that is what I think.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >

> > > Yes Placenta is acting like an interface.I too have mentioned in

> my

> > > previous mails regarding the duration of supply.Some say upto 10

> > > minutes though it varies from case to case.So there is a supply

> > > similar to back up battery.Whether this can be accounted or not

> is

> > > the doubt.

> > >

> > > Why was breaking of placental link (which includes cutting of

> cord)

> > > considered by some as a birth time is the concern.Crying/Breath

> is

> > > the ideal choice,if it is safe enough to ignore the parallel

> supply.

> > >

> > > Respect

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > I think the oxygen supply is from the wall of the uterus to the

> > > placenta

> > > > through the umbilical cord to the navel of the fetus. Placenta

> is

> > > a

> > > > transfer medium which supplies nutrients, oxygen, antibodies

> and

> > > > hormones etc. from the mother's blood to the fetus and carries

> the

> > > waste

> > > > generated by the fetus back. Once the placenta is detached from

> > > the

> > > > uterus, I doubt if the oxygen supply continues, barring that

> > > available

> > > > in the blood that remains in the placenta. That is why once the

> > > amniotic

> > > > fluid and the baby containing sack is broken one has to ensure

> > > that the

> > > > baby begins breathing soon. It is this independent first breath

> > > that is

> > > > the time of birth. Of course as i have said earlier, this is my

> > > personal

> > > > opinion and others could hold a different view.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous aspects.

> > > > > Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a custom ? - Some

> > > > > psychological/physiological reasons can as well be behind

> this.

> > > The

> > > > > baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked to hold

> the

> > > baby

> > > > > above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the

> intensity of

> > > > > crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father is asked

> to

> > > cut

> > > > > the cord.

> > > > >

> > > > > Personally i would also love to lean towards your view,as

> first

> > > > > breath marks an independent act from the child,save for the

> below

> > > > > concern.

> > > > >

> > > > > As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen apart from

> > > > > nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three vessels)

> and

> > > > > hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they

> say,amniotic

> > > sac

> > > > > is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side.

> > > > >

> > > > > As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for couple of

> > > hours

> > > > > before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to

> astrology.But

> > > the

> > > > > tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the natural

> > > cessation

> > > > > of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen supply.Some say

> > > within 10

> > > > > minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact.

> > > > >

> > > > > The point i would love to probe is - when is the baby totally

> > > > > independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a parallel

> > > > > supply,then the baby is not totally independent.Cutting makes

> > > it.But

> > > > > if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation time/point

> > > > > happens in between in a silent fashion and goes unnoticed.

> > > > >

> > > > > If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us alive,then

> > > independent

> > > > > existence or birth should have a a single input.

> > > > >

> > > > > All these depends on the divine/technical switch designed by

> the

> > > > > Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly mentioned we

> > > need

> > > > > to know atleast the basic physiological,functionalities with

> > > > > authenticity,to comment further.

> > > > >

> > > > > Historical points that you have in mind may be shared,if it

> can

> > > help

> > > > > to further our understanding.I totally agree with your point

> > > > > that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time does not

> make

> > > > > sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think in the western world these days it is becoming a

> > > practice

> > > > > for

> > > > > > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of

> delivery of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked

> you to

> > > cut

> > > > > the

> > > > > > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of

> > > > > rewarding the

> > > > > > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady

> deliver her

> > > > > child.

> > > > > > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far

> as I

> > > > > remember

> > > > > > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to

> the

> > > > > > acquaintances when a child was born.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen

> supply.

> > > It

> > > > > is

> > > > > > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides

> immediate

> > > > > > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in

> > > human

> > > > > beings

> > > > > > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores

> too

> > > tend

> > > > > to eat

> > > > > > the placenta.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be

> cut

> > > > > from the

> > > > > > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for

> > > cutting

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of

> > > birth of

> > > > > an

> > > > > > individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish

> > > > > edifice

> > > > > > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth

> > > being

> > > > > > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope

> based on

> > > his

> > > > > purva

> > > > > > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be

> the

> > > > > case.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the

> group

> > > > > explains

> > > > > > the process of human birth and explain about timing of

> which

> > > > > action can

> > > > > > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so

> > > controlled

> > > > > when a

> > > > > > child is born so that this question is settled once and for

> > > all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go

> into, and

> > > > > they

> > > > > > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that

> the

> > > > > shastra

> > > > > > was written, that make me believe that the first intake of

> > > breath

> > > > > > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth.

> I do

> > > not

> > > > > want

> > > > > > to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret

> > > > > historical

> > > > > > facts in different manner and that can only lead to more

> > > confusion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a

> different

> > > view

> > > > > on the

> > > > > > subject.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and

> > > labour

> > > > > room

> > > > > > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got

> > > through

> > > > > > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to

> me

> > > to do

> > > > > > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both

> > > normal

> > > > > > > deliveries.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before

> > > > > cutting of

> > > > > > > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the

> > > natural

> > > > > one

> > > > > > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an

> > > artificial

> > > > > > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to

> > > case.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a

> > > planned

> > > > > > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if

> the

> > > lord

> > > > > > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of

> > > delivery ,it

> > > > > > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so

> that

> > > > > > > different views regarding the topic can be

> > > obtained,especially as

> > > > > > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the

> labor

> > > room

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord.

> > > Umbilical

> > > > > > > cord is

> > > > > > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can

> be

> > > away

> > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the

> > > time of

> > > > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for

> > > birth

> > > > > then

> > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think

> that

> > > > > vedic

> > > > > > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the

> time of

> > > > > birth

> > > > > > > of a baby.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of

> > > organized

> > > > > > > hospitals

> > > > > > > > but many babies are born where no such provision is

> there

> > > and

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous

> > > removed

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is

> a

> > > > > problem,

> > > > > > > use of

> > > > > > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here

> > > unless

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > baby is

> > > > > > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be

> > > forced

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better

> > > placed to

> > > > > > > comment

> > > > > > > > on this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may

> hold a

> > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs

> and

> > > know a

> > > > > > > bit

> > > > > > > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my

> > > animals

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > breach presentation.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in

> > > chandrashekhar

> > > > > jis

> > > > > > > view

> > > > > > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of

> > > umbilical

> > > > > > > chord or

> > > > > > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you

> know,umbilical

> > > chord

> > > > > > > connects

> > > > > > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs

> > > mother

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a

> > > > > parallel

> > > > > > > oxygen

> > > > > > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with

> mother,and

> > > hence

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point

> in

> > > your

> > > > > > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being

> > > effected

> > > > > > > until

> > > > > > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping

> my

> > > > > curiousity

> > > > > > > > > awake.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut

> the

> > > chord.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t

> Phaldeepika

> > > which

> > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is

> > > > > controlled by

> > > > > > > > > human

> > > > > > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of

> > > birth

> > > > > then

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > whole

> > > > > > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time

> dictated by

> > > his

> > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have

> > > always

> > > > > held

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby

> > > indicative of

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be

> > > considered

> > > > > as the

> > > > > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death

> then

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for

> that

> > > > > > > premise but

> > > > > > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary.

> Primarily we

> > > must

> > > > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village

> > > > > astrologer,some

> > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of

> > > placenta is

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has

> > > shlokas to

> > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his

> > > views.To

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and

> > > protecting

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > -- In

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, " sreeram

> > > > > srinivas "

> > > > > > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do

> you

> > > know

> > > > > > > that a

> > > > > > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the

> > > menstrual

> > > > > cycle

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient

> rishis

> > > found

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to

> > > record

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > hence,

> > > > > > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is

> confused

> > > > > whether

> > > > > > > to take

> > > > > > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the

> umbilical

> > > cord

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > when

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As

> the

> > > time

> > > > > > > > > variation

> > > > > > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial

> > > difference.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > > > > > > best " Garbadharan " and

> > > > > > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > > > > > research or case studies available on this,

> for the

> > > > > simple

> > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good

> > > > > ettiquette

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss

> this.

> > > > > There is

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

> > > > > subject....original and

> > > > > > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other

> highly

> > > > > qualified

> > > > > > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures

> including

> > > our

> > > > > > > mythology,

> > > > > > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than

> > > individual

> > > > > > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some

> > > predictions

> > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary

> positions ),

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > is done

> > > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > > the " amsa " calculations. Some of this ancient

> > > science

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > lost

> > > > > > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my

> knowledge

> > > do not

> > > > > > > know if

> > > > > > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it

> properly

> > > i.e.

> > > > > > > literature

> > > > > > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote

> or

> > > > > reflect

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather

> > > than

> > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan

> > > kidnapping

> > > > > > > Goddess

> > > > > > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > > > > > called something " Vinda " , a result of which was

> > > > > > > destruction or

> > > > > > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of

> > > Ayodhya,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, (

> > > can he

> > > > > > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or

> > > > > > > understanding of

> > > > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the

> original

> > > > > timing

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however,

> the

> > > Lord

> > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the

> clarion

> > > conch

> > > > > > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable

> > > astros

> > > > > > > including

> > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya,

> Dhaan

> > > Vir

> > > > > > > Karna,

> > > > > > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev,

> Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of

> > > > > Mahabharat {

> > > > > > > > > surely

> > > > > > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting

> > > discussion

> > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan

> on the

> > > > > issue

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This

> > > controversy

> > > > > > > still goes

> > > > > > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and

> location

> > > of the

> > > > > > > war was

> > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna

> > > i.e.

> > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that

> the

> > > SOIL

> > > > > > > there at

> > > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few

> very

> > > > > > > interesting

> > > > > > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > > > > > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we

> have

> > > > > touched

> > > > > > > few

> > > > > > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more

> > > lines....though

> > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief

> adviser

> > > of

> > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > Ram's

> > > > > > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train

> Lord

> > > Ram &

> > > > > > > brothers

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of

> war........and

> > > > > > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations -

> > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available

> in

> > > > > telugu,

> > > > > > > but due

> > > > > > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish,

> tracing

> > > those

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > books

> > > > > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form

> in

> > > > > Telugu.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > [

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>] On

> > > Behalf Of

> > > > > > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth

> which

> > > is

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > essential

> > > > > > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for

> me

> > > to

> > > > > > > believe

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into,

> > > because

> > > > > > > life was

> > > > > > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to

> believe

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all

> be

> > > > > looking

> > > > > > > into.

> > > > > > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i

> > > might be

> > > > > > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months

> > > delivery

> > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in

> the

> > > womb

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have

> been

> > > > > living

> > > > > > > long

> > > > > > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really

> need

> > > some

> > > > > > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our

> lifechart

> > > based

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>

> <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ----------------

> ----

> > > ----

> > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 -

> > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --------------------

> ----

> > > -

> > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 -

> Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

March 9, 2007

Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

Yes first breath is important and sufficient.Sometimes as you have

said they might overlap or get interchanged as well.It was an

educative discussion.Thanks for all those who have participated.

Respect

Pradeep

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> I can see your point of view. One has also to remember that it is

Saturn

> who is Ayush karaka and he rules over air. Again generally, if my

> understanding is right, the umbilical cord is cut and then the

baby's

> nostrils etc. are cleared of mucous, properly and sometimes the

baby is

> held upside down, to initiate its first breath. This added to the

fact

> of the different meanings of word Prana, lead me to the conclusion

that

> drawal of the first breath is the moment of birth, especially as

no one

> can manipulate that moment by mechanical intervention.

>

> But then as I said this is my personal opinion.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > Thanks for the mail and sorry for the delayed reply.You have

> > mentioned a very valid point ''the breath that one draws in is

> > called prana''.Before birth ''Prana'' drawn in by mother sustains

> > the baby.

> >

> > It seems even after birth,the human system is designed,to

> > facilitate,continuation of placental blood and oxygen supply.It

has

> > a vital role as well.

> > After the delivery of the child, and before delivery of the

> > placenta,the oxygen supply changes from the placenta to the

lungs.

> > During normal changeover, placental oxygenation continues until

> > pulmonary oxygenation is established.

> >

> > During normal changeover, the brain is not deprived of oxygen and

> > placental blood is transfused into the child, increasing its

blood

> > volume, through the lungs augmented by ventilation to establish

> > pulmonary oxygenation.After pulmonary oxygenation is

> > established,placental oxygenation ceases - the cord vessels

close;

> > the brain's oxygen supply is not interrupted.On the other hand -

if

> > the baby is deprived of placental supply,it can very well result

in

> > brain damage and further complications.

> >

> > '' " [Nature] has arranged it so that during the dangerous passage

of

> > birth, the child is receiving oxygen from two sources rather than

> > one:from the lungs and from the umbilicus. Two systems

functioning

> > simultaneously, one relieving the other: the old one, the

> > umbilicus,continues to supply oxygen to the baby until the new

one,

> > the lungs, has fully taken its place. However, once the infant

has

> > been born and delivered from the mother, it remains bound to her

by

> > this umbilicus, which continues to beat for several long minutes:

> > four . . . five .. . sometimes more. Oxygenated by the umbilicus,

> > sheltered from anoxia, the baby can settle into breathing without

> > danger and without shock. At leisure. .. . In addition, the blood

> > has plenty of time to abandon its old route (which leads to the

> > placenta) and progressively to fill the pulmonary circulatory

> > system. During this time, in parallel fashion, an orifice closes

in

> > the heart, which seals off the old route forever. In

> > short, for an average of four or five minutes, the newborn infant

> > straddles two worlds. Drawing oxygen from two sources, it

switches

> > gradually from the one to the other, without a brutal

transition''.

> >

> > The above stated ''no mans land (cricketing parlance) '' during

the

> > first few minutes is my concern.

> >

> > Even though i agree with your point that as first breath is drawn

> > and with the act happening through lungs,a new birth

happens ,total

> > natural independency not being achieved until the cessation of

> > placental supply,is keeping ones curiousity alive.

> >

> > It is not a disagreement,but i am providing all the facts so

> > that ,we are not missing out on any.

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> >

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > There is a difference in the manner that oxygen is assimilated

in

> > a

> > > baby's body through placenta and through intake of breath. In

the

> > former

> > > it is the oxygen that is already absorbed in mother's blood

that

> > is

> > > transmitted to the baby through blood via the navel where the

> > umbilical

> > > connects to the baby. In the later it is through the lungs that

> > the

> > > oxygen is absorbed to be further absorbed in blood. If you

> > remember it

> > > is the breath that one draws in that is Called Prana (also

meaning

> > > life). That is why it is very much safe to ignore the parallel

> > oxygen

> > > supply as the media is different. Or at least that is what I

think.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > >

> > > > Yes Placenta is acting like an interface.I too have

mentioned in

> > my

> > > > previous mails regarding the duration of supply.Some say

upto 10

> > > > minutes though it varies from case to case.So there is a

supply

> > > > similar to back up battery.Whether this can be accounted or

not

> > is

> > > > the doubt.

> > > >

> > > > Why was breaking of placental link (which includes cutting of

> > cord)

> > > > considered by some as a birth time is the

concern.Crying/Breath

> > is

> > > > the ideal choice,if it is safe enough to ignore the parallel

> > supply.

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > I think the oxygen supply is from the wall of the uterus

to the

> > > > placenta

> > > > > through the umbilical cord to the navel of the fetus.

Placenta

> > is

> > > > a

> > > > > transfer medium which supplies nutrients, oxygen,

antibodies

> > and

> > > > > hormones etc. from the mother's blood to the fetus and

carries

> > the

> > > > waste

> > > > > generated by the fetus back. Once the placenta is detached

from

> > > > the

> > > > > uterus, I doubt if the oxygen supply continues, barring

that

> > > > available

> > > > > in the blood that remains in the placenta. That is why

once the

> > > > amniotic

> > > > > fluid and the baby containing sack is broken one has to

ensure

> > > > that the

> > > > > baby begins breathing soon. It is this independent first

breath

> > > > that is

> > > > > the time of birth. Of course as i have said earlier, this

is my

> > > > personal

> > > > > opinion and others could hold a different view.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous aspects.

> > > > > > Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a custom ? -

Some

> > > > > > psychological/physiological reasons can as well be behind

> > this.

> > > > The

> > > > > > baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked to

hold

> > the

> > > > baby

> > > > > > above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the

> > intensity of

> > > > > > crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father is

asked

> > to

> > > > cut

> > > > > > the cord.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Personally i would also love to lean towards your view,as

> > first

> > > > > > breath marks an independent act from the child,save for

the

> > below

> > > > > > concern.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen apart

from

> > > > > > nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three

vessels)

> > and

> > > > > > hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they

> > say,amniotic

> > > > sac

> > > > > > is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for

couple of

> > > > hours

> > > > > > before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to

> > astrology.But

> > > > the

> > > > > > tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the

natural

> > > > cessation

> > > > > > of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen supply.Some

say

> > > > within 10

> > > > > > minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The point i would love to probe is - when is the baby

totally

> > > > > > independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a

parallel

> > > > > > supply,then the baby is not totally independent.Cutting

makes

> > > > it.But

> > > > > > if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation

time/point

> > > > > > happens in between in a silent fashion and goes

unnoticed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us alive,then

> > > > independent

> > > > > > existence or birth should have a a single input.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All these depends on the divine/technical switch

designed by

> > the

> > > > > > Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly

mentioned we

> > > > need

> > > > > > to know atleast the basic physiological,functionalities

with

> > > > > > authenticity,to comment further.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Historical points that you have in mind may be shared,if

it

> > can

> > > > help

> > > > > > to further our understanding.I totally agree with your

point

> > > > > > that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time does

not

> > make

> > > > > > sense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think in the western world these days it is becoming

a

> > > > practice

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of

> > delivery of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked

> > you to

> > > > cut

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means

of

> > > > > > rewarding the

> > > > > > > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady

> > deliver her

> > > > > > child.

> > > > > > > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As

far

> > as I

> > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar

to

> > the

> > > > > > > acquaintances when a child was born.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen

> > supply.

> > > > It

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides

> > immediate

> > > > > > > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the

custom in

> > > > human

> > > > > > beings

> > > > > > > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the

herbivores

> > too

> > > > tend

> > > > > > to eat

> > > > > > > the placenta.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta

must be

> > cut

> > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes,

for

> > > > cutting

> > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > cord and this would mean human being deciding the time

of

> > > > birth of

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > individual. This would mean the very basis on which

Jyotish

> > > > > > edifice

> > > > > > > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of

birth

> > > > being

> > > > > > > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope

> > based on

> > > > his

> > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that

should be

> > the

> > > > > > case.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on

the

> > group

> > > > > > explains

> > > > > > > the process of human birth and explain about timing of

> > which

> > > > > > action can

> > > > > > > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so

> > > > controlled

> > > > > > when a

> > > > > > > child is born so that this question is settled once

and for

> > > > all.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go

> > into, and

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times

that

> > the

> > > > > > shastra

> > > > > > > was written, that make me believe that the first

intake of

> > > > breath

> > > > > > > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of

birth.

> > I do

> > > > not

> > > > > > want

> > > > > > > to enter into that discussion as one can always

interpret

> > > > > > historical

> > > > > > > facts in different manner and that can only lead to

more

> > > > confusion.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a

> > different

> > > > view

> > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > subject.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks

and

> > > > labour

> > > > > > room

> > > > > > > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my

knowledge got

> > > > through

> > > > > > > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had

suggested to

> > me

> > > > to do

> > > > > > > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -

both

> > > > normal

> > > > > > > > deliveries.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written

that,before

> > > > > > cutting of

> > > > > > > > the cord,father is supposed to give some

sweet ,honey.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was

the

> > > > natural

> > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an

> > > > artificial

> > > > > > > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from

case to

> > > > case.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or

shift a

> > > > planned

> > > > > > > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only

if

> > the

> > > > lord

> > > > > > > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of

> > > > delivery ,it

> > > > > > > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in

nature,so

> > that

> > > > > > > > different views regarding the topic can be

> > > > obtained,especially as

> > > > > > > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is

respected

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > -- In

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the

> > labor

> > > > room

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical

cord.

> > > > Umbilical

> > > > > > > > cord is

> > > > > > > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby

can

> > be

> > > > away

> > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut.

Since the

> > > > time of

> > > > > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the

criteria for

> > > > birth

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not

think

> > that

> > > > > > vedic

> > > > > > > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the

> > time of

> > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > of a baby.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of

> > > > organized

> > > > > > > > hospitals

> > > > > > > > > but many babies are born where no such provision is

> > there

> > > > and

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its

mucous

> > > > removed

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if

there is

> > a

> > > > > > problem,

> > > > > > > > use of

> > > > > > > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even

here

> > > > unless

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > baby is

> > > > > > > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen

can be

> > > > forced

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be

better

> > > > placed to

> > > > > > > > comment

> > > > > > > > > on this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others

may

> > hold a

> > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred

dogs

> > and

> > > > know a

> > > > > > > > bit

> > > > > > > > > about the process of birth having assisted many of

my

> > > > animals

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > breach presentation.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in

> > > > chandrashekhar

> > > > > > jis

> > > > > > > > view

> > > > > > > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > > > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of

> > > > umbilical

> > > > > > > > chord or

> > > > > > > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you

> > know,umbilical

> > > > chord

> > > > > > > > connects

> > > > > > > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally

disconnetcs

> > > > mother

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent

breath a

> > > > > > parallel

> > > > > > > > oxygen

> > > > > > > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is

broken.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with

> > mother,and

> > > > hence

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a

point

> > in

> > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not

being

> > > > effected

> > > > > > > > until

> > > > > > > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point

keeping

> > my

> > > > > > curiousity

> > > > > > > > > > awake.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to

cut

> > the

> > > > chord.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t

> > Phaldeepika

> > > > which

> > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta

is

> > > > > > controlled by

> > > > > > > > > > human

> > > > > > > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the

time of

> > > > birth

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > whole

> > > > > > > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time

> > dictated by

> > > > his

> > > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I

have

> > > > always

> > > > > > held

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby

> > > > indicative of

> > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be

> > > > considered

> > > > > > as the

> > > > > > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is

death

> > then

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons

for

> > that

> > > > > > > > premise but

> > > > > > > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary.

> > Primarily we

> > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village

> > > > > > astrologer,some

> > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of

> > > > placenta is

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he

has

> > > > shlokas to

> > > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards

his

> > > > views.To

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and

> > > > protecting

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > -- In

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%

40>, " sreeram

> > > > > > srinivas "

> > > > > > > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how

do

> > you

> > > > know

> > > > > > > > that a

> > > > > > > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the

> > > > menstrual

> > > > > > cycle

> > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient

> > rishis

> > > > found

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and

logical to

> > > > record

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > hence,

> > > > > > > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is

> > confused

> > > > > > whether

> > > > > > > > to take

> > > > > > > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the

> > umbilical

> > > > cord

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > when

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old

customs)..etc.. As

> > the

> > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > variation

> > > > > > > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial

> > > > difference.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > > > > > > > best " Garbadharan " and

> > > > > > > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > research or case studies available on this,

> > for the

> > > > > > simple

> > > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal.

Good

> > > > > > ettiquette

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss

> > this.

> > > > > > There is

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

> > > > > > subject....original and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other

> > highly

> > > > > > qualified

> > > > > > > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures

> > including

> > > > our

> > > > > > > > mythology,

> > > > > > > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than

> > > > individual

> > > > > > > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some

> > > > predictions

> > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary

> > positions ),

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > is done

> > > > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the " amsa " calculations. Some of this

ancient

> > > > science

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > lost

> > > > > > > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my

> > knowledge

> > > > do not

> > > > > > > > know if

> > > > > > > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it

> > properly

> > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > literature

> > > > > > > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies

denote

> > or

> > > > > > reflect

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas)

rather

> > > > than

> > > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord

Ravan

> > > > kidnapping

> > > > > > > > Goddess

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > called something " Vinda " , a result of

which was

> > > > > > > > destruction or

> > > > > > > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King

of

> > > > Ayodhya,

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi

Vasisth, (

> > > > can he

> > > > > > > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new

revelation or

> > > > > > > > understanding of

> > > > > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the

> > original

> > > > > > timing

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed,

however,

> > the

> > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the

> > clarion

> > > > conch

> > > > > > > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few

knowledgeable

> > > > astros

> > > > > > > > including

> > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru

Dronacharya,

> > Dhaan

> > > > Vir

> > > > > > > > Karna,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku &

Sakadev,

> > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation

of

> > > > > > Mahabharat {

> > > > > > > > > > surely

> > > > > > > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting

> > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring

Duryodhan

> > on the

> > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This

> > > > controversy

> > > > > > > > still goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and

> > location

> > > > of the

> > > > > > > > war was

> > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord

Krishna

> > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being

that

> > the

> > > > SOIL

> > > > > > > > there at

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few

> > very

> > > > > > > > interesting

> > > > > > > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > > > > > > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we

> > have

> > > > > > touched

> > > > > > > > few

> > > > > > > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more

> > > > lines....though

> > > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief

> > adviser

> > > > of

> > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > Ram's

> > > > > > > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train

> > Lord

> > > > Ram &

> > > > > > > > brothers

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of

> > war........and

> > > > > > > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > between the lines - the original

translations -

> > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are

available

> > in

> > > > > > telugu,

> > > > > > > > but due

> > > > > > > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish,

> > tracing

> > > > those

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > books

> > > > > > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry

form

> > in

> > > > > > Telugu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>]

On

> > > > Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo

birth

> > which

> > > > is

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > essential

> > > > > > > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong

for

> > me

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > believe

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking

into,

> > > > because

> > > > > > > > life was

> > > > > > > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to

> > believe

> > > > that

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should

all

> > be

> > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > into.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov

so i

> > > > might be

> > > > > > > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9

months

> > > > delivery

> > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that

babies in

> > the

> > > > womb

> > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we

have

> > been

> > > > > > living

> > > > > > > > long

> > > > > > > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really

> > need

> > > > some

> > > > > > > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our

> > lifechart

> > > > based

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > >

s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

----

> > ----

> > > > ----

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database:

268.18.3/696 -

> > > > Release

> > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ----------------

----

> > ----

> > > > -

> > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 -

> > Release

> > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --------------------

----

> > -

> > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 -

Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > 2/25/2007 3:16 PM

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

March 9, 2007

This subject is never ending. But it seems that the first cry is not

important after all,as I have been doing some reseraches and found

that some children do not cry immediately after birth.

What causes the manifestation of the voice or the cry ? It is the

outcoming air expelled from the lungs, Understand well that these

lungs do not breathe until the child is born. Therefore air must be

inhaled first., before it is expelled. And it is with the first

breath the new born child takes, that the Cosmic rays enter also.

what a mighty effect the first respiration, must produce in the body

of the newwly arrived. Fresh into the lungs, all the forces current

in the air at that particular moment and place find a lodging place

and, whether for good or evil, there they are.

Therefore the first breath constitutes the beginning of the

individual life, and this is the time to record, to the exact second,

and not the first cry, unless it corresponds to the first breath.

regards,

Bhaskar.

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

>

> Yes first breath is important and sufficient.Sometimes as you have

> said they might overlap or get interchanged as well.It was an

> educative discussion.Thanks for all those who have participated.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

> , Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > I can see your point of view. One has also to remember that it is

> Saturn

> > who is Ayush karaka and he rules over air. Again generally, if my

> > understanding is right, the umbilical cord is cut and then the

> baby's

> > nostrils etc. are cleared of mucous, properly and sometimes the

> baby is

> > held upside down, to initiate its first breath. This added to the

> fact

> > of the different meanings of word Prana, lead me to the

conclusion

> that

> > drawal of the first breath is the moment of birth, especially as

> no one

> > can manipulate that moment by mechanical intervention.

> >

> > But then as I said this is my personal opinion.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >

> > > Thanks for the mail and sorry for the delayed reply.You have

> > > mentioned a very valid point ''the breath that one draws in is

> > > called prana''.Before birth ''Prana'' drawn in by mother

sustains

> > > the baby.

> > >

> > > It seems even after birth,the human system is designed,to

> > > facilitate,continuation of placental blood and oxygen supply.It

> has

> > > a vital role as well.

> > > After the delivery of the child, and before delivery of the

> > > placenta,the oxygen supply changes from the placenta to the

> lungs.

> > > During normal changeover, placental oxygenation continues until

> > > pulmonary oxygenation is established.

> > >

> > > During normal changeover, the brain is not deprived of oxygen

and

> > > placental blood is transfused into the child, increasing its

> blood

> > > volume, through the lungs augmented by ventilation to establish

> > > pulmonary oxygenation.After pulmonary oxygenation is

> > > established,placental oxygenation ceases - the cord vessels

> close;

> > > the brain's oxygen supply is not interrupted.On the other hand -

> if

> > > the baby is deprived of placental supply,it can very well

result

> in

> > > brain damage and further complications.

> > >

> > > '' " [Nature] has arranged it so that during the dangerous

passage

> of

> > > birth, the child is receiving oxygen from two sources rather

than

> > > one:from the lungs and from the umbilicus. Two systems

> functioning

> > > simultaneously, one relieving the other: the old one, the

> > > umbilicus,continues to supply oxygen to the baby until the new

> one,

> > > the lungs, has fully taken its place. However, once the infant

> has

> > > been born and delivered from the mother, it remains bound to

her

> by

> > > this umbilicus, which continues to beat for several long

minutes:

> > > four . . . five .. . sometimes more. Oxygenated by the

umbilicus,

> > > sheltered from anoxia, the baby can settle into breathing

without

> > > danger and without shock. At leisure. .. . In addition, the

blood

> > > has plenty of time to abandon its old route (which leads to the

> > > placenta) and progressively to fill the pulmonary circulatory

> > > system. During this time, in parallel fashion, an orifice

closes

> in

> > > the heart, which seals off the old route forever. In

> > > short, for an average of four or five minutes, the newborn

infant

> > > straddles two worlds. Drawing oxygen from two sources, it

> switches

> > > gradually from the one to the other, without a brutal

> transition''.

> > >

> > > The above stated ''no mans land (cricketing parlance) '' during

> the

> > > first few minutes is my concern.

> > >

> > > Even though i agree with your point that as first breath is

drawn

> > > and with the act happening through lungs,a new birth

> happens ,total

> > > natural independency not being achieved until the cessation of

> > > placental supply,is keeping ones curiousity alive.

> > >

> > > It is not a disagreement,but i am providing all the facts so

> > > that ,we are not missing out on any.

> > >

> > > Respect

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > There is a difference in the manner that oxygen is

assimilated

> in

> > > a

> > > > baby's body through placenta and through intake of breath. In

> the

> > > former

> > > > it is the oxygen that is already absorbed in mother's blood

> that

> > > is

> > > > transmitted to the baby through blood via the navel where the

> > > umbilical

> > > > connects to the baby. In the later it is through the lungs

that

> > > the

> > > > oxygen is absorbed to be further absorbed in blood. If you

> > > remember it

> > > > is the breath that one draws in that is Called Prana (also

> meaning

> > > > life). That is why it is very much safe to ignore the parallel

> > > oxygen

> > > > supply as the media is different. Or at least that is what I

> think.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes Placenta is acting like an interface.I too have

> mentioned in

> > > my

> > > > > previous mails regarding the duration of supply.Some say

> upto 10

> > > > > minutes though it varies from case to case.So there is a

> supply

> > > > > similar to back up battery.Whether this can be accounted or

> not

> > > is

> > > > > the doubt.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why was breaking of placental link (which includes cutting

of

> > > cord)

> > > > > considered by some as a birth time is the

> concern.Crying/Breath

> > > is

> > > > > the ideal choice,if it is safe enough to ignore the parallel

> > > supply.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think the oxygen supply is from the wall of the uterus

> to the

> > > > > placenta

> > > > > > through the umbilical cord to the navel of the fetus.

> Placenta

> > > is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > transfer medium which supplies nutrients, oxygen,

> antibodies

> > > and

> > > > > > hormones etc. from the mother's blood to the fetus and

> carries

> > > the

> > > > > waste

> > > > > > generated by the fetus back. Once the placenta is

detached

> from

> > > > > the

> > > > > > uterus, I doubt if the oxygen supply continues, barring

> that

> > > > > available

> > > > > > in the blood that remains in the placenta. That is why

> once the

> > > > > amniotic

> > > > > > fluid and the baby containing sack is broken one has to

> ensure

> > > > > that the

> > > > > > baby begins breathing soon. It is this independent first

> breath

> > > > > that is

> > > > > > the time of birth. Of course as i have said earlier, this

> is my

> > > > > personal

> > > > > > opinion and others could hold a different view.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous aspects.

> > > > > > > Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a custom ? -

> Some

> > > > > > > psychological/physiological reasons can as well be

behind

> > > this.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked to

> hold

> > > the

> > > > > baby

> > > > > > > above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the

> > > intensity of

> > > > > > > crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father is

> asked

> > > to

> > > > > cut

> > > > > > > the cord.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Personally i would also love to lean towards your

view,as

> > > first

> > > > > > > breath marks an independent act from the child,save for

> the

> > > below

> > > > > > > concern.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen

apart

> from

> > > > > > > nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three

> vessels)

> > > and

> > > > > > > hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they

> > > say,amniotic

> > > > > sac

> > > > > > > is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for

> couple of

> > > > > hours

> > > > > > > before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to

> > > astrology.But

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the

> natural

> > > > > cessation

> > > > > > > of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen supply.Some

> say

> > > > > within 10

> > > > > > > minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The point i would love to probe is - when is the baby

> totally

> > > > > > > independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a

> parallel

> > > > > > > supply,then the baby is not totally independent.Cutting

> makes

> > > > > it.But

> > > > > > > if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation

> time/point

> > > > > > > happens in between in a silent fashion and goes

> unnoticed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us alive,then

> > > > > independent

> > > > > > > existence or birth should have a a single input.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > All these depends on the divine/technical switch

> designed by

> > > the

> > > > > > > Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly

> mentioned we

> > > > > need

> > > > > > > to know atleast the basic physiological,functionalities

> with

> > > > > > > authenticity,to comment further.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Historical points that you have in mind may be

shared,if

> it

> > > can

> > > > > help

> > > > > > > to further our understanding.I totally agree with your

> point

> > > > > > > that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time does

> not

> > > make

> > > > > > > sense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think in the western world these days it is

becoming

> a

> > > > > practice

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of

> > > delivery of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor

asked

> > > you to

> > > > > cut

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a

means

> of

> > > > > > > rewarding the

> > > > > > > > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady

> > > deliver her

> > > > > > > child.

> > > > > > > > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As

> far

> > > as I

> > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar

> to

> > > the

> > > > > > > > acquaintances when a child was born.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen

> > > supply.

> > > > > It

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides

> > > immediate

> > > > > > > > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the

> custom in

> > > > > human

> > > > > > > beings

> > > > > > > > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the

> herbivores

> > > too

> > > > > tend

> > > > > > > to eat

> > > > > > > > the placenta.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta

> must be

> > > cut

> > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes,

> for

> > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > cord and this would mean human being deciding the

time

> of

> > > > > birth of

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > individual. This would mean the very basis on which

> Jyotish

> > > > > > > edifice

> > > > > > > > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of

> birth

> > > > > being

> > > > > > > > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope

> > > based on

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that

> should be

> > > the

> > > > > > > case.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on

> the

> > > group

> > > > > > > explains

> > > > > > > > the process of human birth and explain about timing of

> > > which

> > > > > > > action can

> > > > > > > > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so

> > > > > controlled

> > > > > > > when a

> > > > > > > > child is born so that this question is settled once

> and for

> > > > > all.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go

> > > into, and

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times

> that

> > > the

> > > > > > > shastra

> > > > > > > > was written, that make me believe that the first

> intake of

> > > > > breath

> > > > > > > > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of

> birth.

> > > I do

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > want

> > > > > > > > to enter into that discussion as one can always

> interpret

> > > > > > > historical

> > > > > > > > facts in different manner and that can only lead to

> more

> > > > > confusion.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a

> > > different

> > > > > view

> > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > subject.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You may have more authentic info regarding men

folks

> and

> > > > > labour

> > > > > > > room

> > > > > > > > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my

> knowledge got

> > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had

> suggested to

> > > me

> > > > > to do

> > > > > > > > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour

room,twice -

> both

> > > > > normal

> > > > > > > > > deliveries.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written

> that,before

> > > > > > > cutting of

> > > > > > > > > the cord,father is supposed to give some

> sweet ,honey.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was

> the

> > > > > natural

> > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not

an

> > > > > artificial

> > > > > > > > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from

> case to

> > > > > case.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or

> shift a

> > > > > planned

> > > > > > > > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only

> if

> > > the

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of

> > > > > delivery ,it

> > > > > > > > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in

> nature,so

> > > that

> > > > > > > > > different views regarding the topic can be

> > > > > obtained,especially as

> > > > > > > > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is

> respected

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > -- In

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into

the

> > > labor

> > > > > room

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical

> cord.

> > > > > Umbilical

> > > > > > > > > cord is

> > > > > > > > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the

baby

> can

> > > be

> > > > > away

> > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut.

> Since the

> > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the

> criteria for

> > > > > birth

> > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not

> think

> > > that

> > > > > > > vedic

> > > > > > > > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change

the

> > > time of

> > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > of a baby.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case

of

> > > > > organized

> > > > > > > > > hospitals

> > > > > > > > > > but many babies are born where no such provision

is

> > > there

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its

> mucous

> > > > > removed

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if

> there is

> > > a

> > > > > > > problem,

> > > > > > > > > use of

> > > > > > > > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even

> here

> > > > > unless

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > baby is

> > > > > > > > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen

> can be

> > > > > forced

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be

> better

> > > > > placed to

> > > > > > > > > comment

> > > > > > > > > > on this.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others

> may

> > > hold a

> > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred

> dogs

> > > and

> > > > > know a

> > > > > > > > > bit

> > > > > > > > > > about the process of birth having assisted many

of

> my

> > > > > animals

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > breach presentation.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in

> > > > > chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > jis

> > > > > > > > > view

> > > > > > > > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > > > > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting

of

> > > > > umbilical

> > > > > > > > > chord or

> > > > > > > > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you

> > > know,umbilical

> > > > > chord

> > > > > > > > > connects

> > > > > > > > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally

> disconnetcs

> > > > > mother

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent

> breath a

> > > > > > > parallel

> > > > > > > > > oxygen

> > > > > > > > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is

> broken.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with

> > > mother,and

> > > > > hence

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a

> point

> > > in

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not

> being

> > > > > effected

> > > > > > > > > until

> > > > > > > > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point

> keeping

> > > my

> > > > > > > curiousity

> > > > > > > > > > > awake.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to

> cut

> > > the

> > > > > chord.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t

> > > Phaldeepika

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta

> is

> > > > > > > controlled by

> > > > > > > > > > > human

> > > > > > > > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the

> time of

> > > > > birth

> > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > whole

> > > > > > > > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time

> > > dictated by

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I

> have

> > > > > always

> > > > > > > held

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby

> > > > > indicative of

> > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be

> > > > > considered

> > > > > > > as the

> > > > > > > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is

> death

> > > then

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other

reasons

> for

> > > that

> > > > > > > > > premise but

> > > > > > > > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary.

> > > Primarily we

> > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village

> > > > > > > astrologer,some

> > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of

> > > > > placenta is

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he

> has

> > > > > shlokas to

> > > > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards

> his

> > > > > views.To

> > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and

> > > > > protecting

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> 40>, " sreeram

> > > > > > > srinivas "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But

how

> do

> > > you

> > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > that a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the

> > > > > menstrual

> > > > > > > cycle

> > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient

> > > rishis

> > > > > found

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and

> logical to

> > > > > record

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > hence,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is

> > > confused

> > > > > > > whether

> > > > > > > > > to take

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the

> > > umbilical

> > > > > cord

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > when

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old

> customs)..etc.. As

> > > the

> > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > variation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is

immaterial

> > > > > difference.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for

> > > > > > > > > best " Garbadharan " and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > research or case studies available on

this,

> > > for the

> > > > > > > simple

> > > > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal.

> Good

> > > > > > > ettiquette

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or

discuss

> > > this.

> > > > > > > There is

> > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

> > > > > > > subject....original and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other

> > > highly

> > > > > > > qualified

> > > > > > > > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures

> > > including

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > mythology,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than

> > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some

> > > > > predictions

> > > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary

> > > positions ),

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > is done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the " amsa " calculations. Some of this

> ancient

> > > > > science

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > lost

> > > > > > > > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my

> > > knowledge

> > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > know if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it

> > > properly

> > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > literature

> > > > > > > > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies

> denote

> > > or

> > > > > > > reflect

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas)

> rather

> > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord

> Ravan

> > > > > kidnapping

> > > > > > > > > Goddess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > called something " Vinda " , a result of

> which was

> > > > > > > > > destruction or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as

King

> of

> > > > > Ayodhya,

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi

> Vasisth, (

> > > > > can he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new

> revelation or

> > > > > > > > > understanding of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the

> > > original

> > > > > > > timing

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed,

> however,

> > > the

> > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the

> > > clarion

> > > > > conch

> > > > > > > > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few

> knowledgeable

> > > > > astros

> > > > > > > > > including

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru

> Dronacharya,

> > > Dhaan

> > > > > Vir

> > > > > > > > > Karna,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku &

> Sakadev,

> > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit

translation

> of

> > > > > > > Mahabharat {

> > > > > > > > > > > surely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an

interesting

> > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring

> Duryodhan

> > > on the

> > > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This

> > > > > controversy

> > > > > > > > > still goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and

> > > location

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > war was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord

> Krishna

> > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being

> that

> > > the

> > > > > SOIL

> > > > > > > > > there at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are

few

> > > very

> > > > > > > > > interesting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > > > > > > > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as

we

> > > have

> > > > > > > touched

> > > > > > > > > few

> > > > > > > > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more

> > > > > lines....though

> > > > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief

> > > adviser

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > Ram's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to

train

> > > Lord

> > > > > Ram &

> > > > > > > > > brothers

> > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of

> > > war........and

> > > > > > > > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the lines - the original

> translations -

> > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are

> available

> > > in

> > > > > > > telugu,

> > > > > > > > > but due

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish,

> > > tracing

> > > > > those

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > books

> > > > > > > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry

> form

> > > in

> > > > > > > Telugu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

40>]

> On

> > > > > Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo

> birth

> > > which

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > essential

> > > > > > > > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it

wrong

> for

> > > me

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > believe

> > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking

> into,

> > > > > because

> > > > > > > > > life was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to

> > > believe

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we

should

> all

> > > be

> > > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > > into.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov

> so i

> > > > > might be

> > > > > > > > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9

> months

> > > > > delivery

> > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that

> babies in

> > > the

> > > > > womb

> > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we

> have

> > > been

> > > > > > > living

> > > > > > > > > long

> > > > > > > > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I

really

> > > need

> > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our

> > > lifechart

> > > > > based

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>

> > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > -----------

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> ----

> > > ----

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database:

> 268.18.3/696 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

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> ----

> > > ----

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> > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database:

268.18.3/696 -

> > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > -------------------

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> > > -

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> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 -

> Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > 2/25/2007 3:16 PM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

March 9, 2007

Dear Bhaskar ji

Thanks for the views.

In that case the baby may start breathing upon ''expulsion'' of head

and Roger may have a vargottama lagna in case nursing staff had

waited until the full body was out.

But normally for the head to come out is tough as compared to rest.

It proves that recording birth time accurately is not an easy

job.From my experience possibility for an error of two minutes or so

is present in every case.

Regds

Pradeep

- In , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> This subject is never ending. But it seems that the first cry is

not

> important after all,as I have been doing some reseraches and found

> that some children do not cry immediately after birth.

>

> What causes the manifestation of the voice or the cry ? It is the

> outcoming air expelled from the lungs, Understand well that these

> lungs do not breathe until the child is born. Therefore air must

be

> inhaled first., before it is expelled. And it is with the first

> breath the new born child takes, that the Cosmic rays enter also.

> what a mighty effect the first respiration, must produce in the

body

> of the newwly arrived. Fresh into the lungs, all the forces

current

> in the air at that particular moment and place find a lodging

place

> and, whether for good or evil, there they are.

>

> Therefore the first breath constitutes the beginning of the

> individual life, and this is the time to record, to the exact

second,

> and not the first cry, unless it corresponds to the first breath.

>

> regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> >

> > Yes first breath is important and sufficient.Sometimes as you

have

> > said they might overlap or get interchanged as well.It was an

> > educative discussion.Thanks for all those who have participated.

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > I can see your point of view. One has also to remember that it

is

> > Saturn

> > > who is Ayush karaka and he rules over air. Again generally, if

my

> > > understanding is right, the umbilical cord is cut and then the

> > baby's

> > > nostrils etc. are cleared of mucous, properly and sometimes

the

> > baby is

> > > held upside down, to initiate its first breath. This added to

the

> > fact

> > > of the different meanings of word Prana, lead me to the

> conclusion

> > that

> > > drawal of the first breath is the moment of birth, especially

as

> > no one

> > > can manipulate that moment by mechanical intervention.

> > >

> > > But then as I said this is my personal opinion.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the mail and sorry for the delayed reply.You have

> > > > mentioned a very valid point ''the breath that one draws in

is

> > > > called prana''.Before birth ''Prana'' drawn in by mother

> sustains

> > > > the baby.

> > > >

> > > > It seems even after birth,the human system is designed,to

> > > > facilitate,continuation of placental blood and oxygen

supply.It

> > has

> > > > a vital role as well.

> > > > After the delivery of the child, and before delivery of the

> > > > placenta,the oxygen supply changes from the placenta to the

> > lungs.

> > > > During normal changeover, placental oxygenation continues

until

> > > > pulmonary oxygenation is established.

> > > >

> > > > During normal changeover, the brain is not deprived of

oxygen

> and

> > > > placental blood is transfused into the child, increasing its

> > blood

> > > > volume, through the lungs augmented by ventilation to

establish

> > > > pulmonary oxygenation.After pulmonary oxygenation is

> > > > established,placental oxygenation ceases - the cord vessels

> > close;

> > > > the brain's oxygen supply is not interrupted.On the other

hand -

>

> > if

> > > > the baby is deprived of placental supply,it can very well

> result

> > in

> > > > brain damage and further complications.

> > > >

> > > > '' " [Nature] has arranged it so that during the dangerous

> passage

> > of

> > > > birth, the child is receiving oxygen from two sources rather

> than

> > > > one:from the lungs and from the umbilicus. Two systems

> > functioning

> > > > simultaneously, one relieving the other: the old one, the

> > > > umbilicus,continues to supply oxygen to the baby until the

new

> > one,

> > > > the lungs, has fully taken its place. However, once the

infant

> > has

> > > > been born and delivered from the mother, it remains bound to

> her

> > by

> > > > this umbilicus, which continues to beat for several long

> minutes:

> > > > four . . . five .. . sometimes more. Oxygenated by the

> umbilicus,

> > > > sheltered from anoxia, the baby can settle into breathing

> without

> > > > danger and without shock. At leisure. .. . In addition, the

> blood

> > > > has plenty of time to abandon its old route (which leads to

the

> > > > placenta) and progressively to fill the pulmonary circulatory

> > > > system. During this time, in parallel fashion, an orifice

> closes

> > in

> > > > the heart, which seals off the old route forever. In

> > > > short, for an average of four or five minutes, the newborn

> infant

> > > > straddles two worlds. Drawing oxygen from two sources, it

> > switches

> > > > gradually from the one to the other, without a brutal

> > transition''.

> > > >

> > > > The above stated ''no mans land (cricketing parlance) ''

during

> > the

> > > > first few minutes is my concern.

> > > >

> > > > Even though i agree with your point that as first breath is

> drawn

> > > > and with the act happening through lungs,a new birth

> > happens ,total

> > > > natural independency not being achieved until the cessation

of

> > > > placental supply,is keeping ones curiousity alive.

> > > >

> > > > It is not a disagreement,but i am providing all the facts so

> > > > that ,we are not missing out on any.

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > There is a difference in the manner that oxygen is

> assimilated

> > in

> > > > a

> > > > > baby's body through placenta and through intake of breath.

In

> > the

> > > > former

> > > > > it is the oxygen that is already absorbed in mother's

blood

> > that

> > > > is

> > > > > transmitted to the baby through blood via the navel where

the

> > > > umbilical

> > > > > connects to the baby. In the later it is through the lungs

> that

> > > > the

> > > > > oxygen is absorbed to be further absorbed in blood. If you

> > > > remember it

> > > > > is the breath that one draws in that is Called Prana (also

> > meaning

> > > > > life). That is why it is very much safe to ignore the

parallel

> > > > oxygen

> > > > > supply as the media is different. Or at least that is what

I

> > think.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes Placenta is acting like an interface.I too have

> > mentioned in

> > > > my

> > > > > > previous mails regarding the duration of supply.Some say

> > upto 10

> > > > > > minutes though it varies from case to case.So there is a

> > supply

> > > > > > similar to back up battery.Whether this can be accounted

or

> > not

> > > > is

> > > > > > the doubt.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why was breaking of placental link (which includes

cutting

> of

> > > > cord)

> > > > > > considered by some as a birth time is the

> > concern.Crying/Breath

> > > > is

> > > > > > the ideal choice,if it is safe enough to ignore the

parallel

> > > > supply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think the oxygen supply is from the wall of the

uterus

> > to the

> > > > > > placenta

> > > > > > > through the umbilical cord to the navel of the fetus.

> > Placenta

> > > > is

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > transfer medium which supplies nutrients, oxygen,

> > antibodies

> > > > and

> > > > > > > hormones etc. from the mother's blood to the fetus and

> > carries

> > > > the

> > > > > > waste

> > > > > > > generated by the fetus back. Once the placenta is

> detached

> > from

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > uterus, I doubt if the oxygen supply continues,

barring

> > that

> > > > > > available

> > > > > > > in the blood that remains in the placenta. That is why

> > once the

> > > > > > amniotic

> > > > > > > fluid and the baby containing sack is broken one has

to

> > ensure

> > > > > > that the

> > > > > > > baby begins breathing soon. It is this independent

first

> > breath

> > > > > > that is

> > > > > > > the time of birth. Of course as i have said earlier,

this

> > is my

> > > > > > personal

> > > > > > > opinion and others could hold a different view.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous

aspects.

> > > > > > > > Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a

custom ? -

> > Some

> > > > > > > > psychological/physiological reasons can as well be

> behind

> > > > this.

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked

to

> > hold

> > > > the

> > > > > > baby

> > > > > > > > above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the

> > > > intensity of

> > > > > > > > crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father

is

> > asked

> > > > to

> > > > > > cut

> > > > > > > > the cord.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Personally i would also love to lean towards your

> view,as

> > > > first

> > > > > > > > breath marks an independent act from the child,save

for

> > the

> > > > below

> > > > > > > > concern.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen

> apart

> > from

> > > > > > > > nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three

> > vessels)

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they

> > > > say,amniotic

> > > > > > sac

> > > > > > > > is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for

> > couple of

> > > > > > hours

> > > > > > > > before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to

> > > > astrology.But

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the

> > natural

> > > > > > cessation

> > > > > > > > of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen

supply.Some

> > say

> > > > > > within 10

> > > > > > > > minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The point i would love to probe is - when is the

baby

> > totally

> > > > > > > > independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a

> > parallel

> > > > > > > > supply,then the baby is not totally

independent.Cutting

> > makes

> > > > > > it.But

> > > > > > > > if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation

> > time/point

> > > > > > > > happens in between in a silent fashion and goes

> > unnoticed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us

alive,then

> > > > > > independent

> > > > > > > > existence or birth should have a a single input.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > All these depends on the divine/technical switch

> > designed by

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly

> > mentioned we

> > > > > > need

> > > > > > > > to know atleast the basic

physiological,functionalities

> > with

> > > > > > > > authenticity,to comment further.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Historical points that you have in mind may be

> shared,if

> > it

> > > > can

> > > > > > help

> > > > > > > > to further our understanding.I totally agree with

your

> > point

> > > > > > > > that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time

does

> > not

> > > > make

> > > > > > > > sense.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think in the western world these days it is

> becoming

> > a

> > > > > > practice

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of

> > > > delivery of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor

> asked

> > > > you to

> > > > > > cut

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a

> means

> > of

> > > > > > > > rewarding the

> > > > > > > > > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady

> > > > deliver her

> > > > > > > > child.

> > > > > > > > > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent.

As

> > far

> > > > as I

> > > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > > in the old days it was the custom to distribute

sugar

> > to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > acquaintances when a child was born.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I do not think placenta has anything to do with

oxygen

> > > > supply.

> > > > > > It

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > filled with blood and in case of carnivores

provides

> > > > immediate

> > > > > > > > > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the

> > custom in

> > > > > > human

> > > > > > > > beings

> > > > > > > > > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the

> > herbivores

> > > > too

> > > > > > tend

> > > > > > > > to eat

> > > > > > > > > the placenta.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta

> > must be

> > > > cut

> > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna

changes,

> > for

> > > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > cord and this would mean human being deciding the

> time

> > of

> > > > > > birth of

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > individual. This would mean the very basis on

which

> > Jyotish

> > > > > > > > edifice

> > > > > > > > > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time

of

> > birth

> > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > decided because of that and one getting the

horoscope

> > > > based on

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that

> > should be

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > case.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist

on

> > the

> > > > group

> > > > > > > > explains

> > > > > > > > > the process of human birth and explain about

timing of

> > > > which

> > > > > > > > action can

> > > > > > > > > be controlled by human beings and which can not be

so

> > > > > > controlled

> > > > > > > > when a

> > > > > > > > > child is born so that this question is settled

once

> > and for

> > > > > > all.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There are also other reasons that I do not want to

go

> > > > into, and

> > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > relate to the manner of birth recording in the

times

> > that

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > shastra

> > > > > > > > > was written, that make me believe that the first

> > intake of

> > > > > > breath

> > > > > > > > > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of

> > birth.

> > > > I do

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > want

> > > > > > > > > to enter into that discussion as one can always

> > interpret

> > > > > > > > historical

> > > > > > > > > facts in different manner and that can only lead

to

> > more

> > > > > > confusion.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a

> > > > different

> > > > > > view

> > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > subject.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You may have more authentic info regarding men

> folks

> > and

> > > > > > labour

> > > > > > > > room

> > > > > > > > > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my

> > knowledge got

> > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had

> > suggested to

> > > > me

> > > > > > to do

> > > > > > > > > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour

> room,twice -

> > both

> > > > > > normal

> > > > > > > > > > deliveries.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written

> > that,before

> > > > > > > > cutting of

> > > > > > > > > > the cord,father is supposed to give some

> > sweet ,honey.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned

was

> > the

> > > > > > natural

> > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and

not

> an

> > > > > > artificial

> > > > > > > > > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from

> > case to

> > > > > > case.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or

> > shift a

> > > > > > planned

> > > > > > > > > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected

only

> > if

> > > > the

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the

time of

> > > > > > delivery ,it

> > > > > > > > > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in

> > nature,so

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > different views regarding the topic can be

> > > > > > obtained,especially as

> > > > > > > > > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is

> > respected

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > -- In

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed

into

> the

> > > > labor

> > > > > > room

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > was no question of father cutting the

umbilical

> > cord.

> > > > > > Umbilical

> > > > > > > > > > cord is

> > > > > > > > > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the

> baby

> > can

> > > > be

> > > > > > away

> > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut.

> > Since the

> > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > > > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the

> > criteria for

> > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do

not

> > think

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > vedic

> > > > > > > > > > > astrology assumes that a human being can

change

> the

> > > > time of

> > > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > of a baby.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the

case

> of

> > > > > > organized

> > > > > > > > > > hospitals

> > > > > > > > > > > but many babies are born where no such

provision

> is

> > > > there

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its

> > mucous

> > > > > > removed

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if

> > there is

> > > > a

> > > > > > > > problem,

> > > > > > > > > > use of

> > > > > > > > > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to.

Even

> > here

> > > > > > unless

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > baby is

> > > > > > > > > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether

oxygen

> > can be

> > > > > > forced

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be

> > better

> > > > > > placed to

> > > > > > > > > > comment

> > > > > > > > > > > on this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and

others

> > may

> > > > hold a

> > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have

bred

> > dogs

> > > > and

> > > > > > know a

> > > > > > > > > > bit

> > > > > > > > > > > about the process of birth having assisted

many

> of

> > my

> > > > > > animals

> > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > breach presentation.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in

> > > > > > chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > jis

> > > > > > > > > > view

> > > > > > > > > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > > > > > > > > At the same time i do see a point with

cutting

> of

> > > > > > umbilical

> > > > > > > > > > chord or

> > > > > > > > > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you

> > > > know,umbilical

> > > > > > chord

> > > > > > > > > > connects

> > > > > > > > > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally

> > disconnetcs

> > > > > > mother

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent

> > breath a

> > > > > > > > parallel

> > > > > > > > > > oxygen

> > > > > > > > > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is

> > broken.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with

> > > > mother,and

> > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see

a

> > point

> > > > in

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby

not

> > being

> > > > > > effected

> > > > > > > > > > until

> > > > > > > > > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point

> > keeping

> > > > my

> > > > > > > > curiousity

> > > > > > > > > > > > awake.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed

to

> > cut

> > > > the

> > > > > > chord.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t

> > > > Phaldeepika

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of

placenta

> > is

> > > > > > > > controlled by

> > > > > > > > > > > > human

> > > > > > > > > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as

the

> > time of

> > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > whole

> > > > > > > > > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time

> > > > dictated by

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > may not stand the test of logic.

Personally I

> > have

> > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > held

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the

baby

> > > > > > indicative of

> > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should

be

> > > > > > considered

> > > > > > > > as the

> > > > > > > > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath

is

> > death

> > > > then

> > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other

> reasons

> > for

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > premise but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary.

> > > > Primarily we

> > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly

village

> > > > > > > > astrologer,some

> > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or

opening of

> > > > > > placenta is

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said

he

> > has

> > > > > > shlokas to

> > > > > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts

towards

> > his

> > > > > > views.To

> > > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg

and

> > > > > > protecting

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>, " sreeram

> > > > > > > > srinivas "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But

> how

> > do

> > > > you

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > that a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing

the

> > > > > > menstrual

> > > > > > > > cycle

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The

ancient

> > > > rishis

> > > > > > found

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and

> > logical to

> > > > > > record

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > hence,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is

> > > > confused

> > > > > > > > whether

> > > > > > > > > > to take

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the

> > > > umbilical

> > > > > > cord

> > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > when

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old

> > customs)..etc.. As

> > > > the

> > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > variation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is

> immaterial

> > > > > > difference.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations

for

> > > > > > > > > > best " Garbadharan " and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > research or case studies available on

> this,

> > > > for the

> > > > > > > > simple

> > > > > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions are too private or

personal.

> > Good

> > > > > > > > ettiquette

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or

> discuss

> > > > this.

> > > > > > > > There is

> > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

> > > > > > > > subject....original and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many

other

> > > > highly

> > > > > > > > qualified

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures

> > > > including

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > mythology,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance

than

> > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and

some

> > > > > > predictions

> > > > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary

> > > > positions ),

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > is done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the " amsa " calculations. Some of this

> > ancient

> > > > > > science

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > lost

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my

> > > > knowledge

> > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > know if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it

> > > > properly

> > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > literature

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies

> > denote

> > > > or

> > > > > > > > reflect

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based

muhurtas)

> > rather

> > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord

> > Ravan

> > > > > > kidnapping

> > > > > > > > > > Goddess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called something " Vinda " , a result of

> > which was

> > > > > > > > > > destruction or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as

> King

> > of

> > > > > > Ayodhya,

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi

> > Vasisth, (

> > > > > > can he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new

> > revelation or

> > > > > > > > > > understanding of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness,

the

> > > > original

> > > > > > > > timing

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed,

> > however,

> > > > the

> > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising

the

> > > > clarion

> > > > > > conch

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few

> > knowledgeable

> > > > > > astros

> > > > > > > > > > including

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru

> > Dronacharya,

> > > > Dhaan

> > > > > > Vir

> > > > > > > > > > Karna,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku &

> > Sakadev,

> > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit

> translation

> > of

> > > > > > > > Mahabharat {

> > > > > > > > > > > > surely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an

> interesting

> > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring

> > Duryodhan

> > > > on the

> > > > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas.

This

> > > > > > controversy

> > > > > > > > > > still goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and

> > > > location

> > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > war was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri

Lord

> > Krishna

> > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons

being

> > that

> > > > the

> > > > > > SOIL

> > > > > > > > > > there at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There

are

> few

> > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > interesting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of

> > > > > > > > > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while

as

> we

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > touched

> > > > > > > > > > few

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more

> > > > > > lines....though

> > > > > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or

Chief

> > > > adviser

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > Ram's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to

> train

> > > > Lord

> > > > > > Ram &

> > > > > > > > > > brothers

> > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of

> > > > war........and

> > > > > > > > > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the lines - the original

> > translations -

> > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are

> > available

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > telugu,

> > > > > > > > > > but due

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > education stress in English or

Hinglish,

> > > > tracing

> > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > books

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in

poetry

> > form

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > Telugu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> 40>]

> > On

> > > > > > Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57

PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo

> > birth

> > > > which

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > essential

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it

> wrong

> > for

> > > > me

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > believe

> > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be

looking

> > into,

> > > > > > because

> > > > > > > > > > life was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me

to

> > > > believe

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we

> should

> > all

> > > > be

> > > > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > > > into.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th

Nov

> > so i

> > > > > > might be

> > > > > > > > > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9

> > months

> > > > > > delivery

> > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that

> > babies in

> > > > the

> > > > > > womb

> > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb

we

> > have

> > > > been

> > > > > > > > living

> > > > > > > > > > long

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I

> really

> > > > need

> > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our

> > > > lifechart

> > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > <http://geo./serv?>

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

have

> > been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------

---

> -

> > ----

> > > > ----

> > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database:

> > 268.18.3/696 -

> > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------

---

> -

> > ----

> > > > ----

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database:

> 268.18.3/696 -

> > > > Release

> > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ----------------

---

> -

> > ----

> > > > -

> > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 -

> > Release

> > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > 2/25/2007 3:16 PM

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --------------------

---

> -

> > -

> > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 -

> Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > 2/25/2007 3:16 PM

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

March 10, 2007

Dear Pradeepji,

Yes,in almost all cases time error of 1-2 minutes is present.

We just have to look in our own house to prove this.

In Your bedroom,notice the time on the wall clock,on the

PC (If you have one here),on the Cell Phone,On your wrist

watch,on youe wifes wrist watch, on your wifes cell,

in your childrens watch, and you shall find a difference

of 1-2 minutes in all timings.

Same goes for the hospitals too. Who has the time in

hospital to periodically check the clock and adjust it

to the IST. Therefore the difference is bound to be there.

regards,

Bhaskar.

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji

>

> Thanks for the views.

> In that case the baby may start breathing upon ''expulsion'' of

head

> and Roger may have a vargottama lagna in case nursing staff had

> waited until the full body was out.

> But normally for the head to come out is tough as compared to rest.

> It proves that recording birth time accurately is not an easy

> job.From my experience possibility for an error of two minutes or

so

> is present in every case.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

> - In , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > This subject is never ending. But it seems that the first cry is

> not

> > important after all,as I have been doing some reseraches and

found

> > that some children do not cry immediately after birth.

> >

> > What causes the manifestation of the voice or the cry ? It is the

> > outcoming air expelled from the lungs, Understand well that these

> > lungs do not breathe until the child is born. Therefore air must

> be

> > inhaled first., before it is expelled. And it is with the first

> > breath the new born child takes, that the Cosmic rays enter also.

> > what a mighty effect the first respiration, must produce in the

> body

> > of the newwly arrived. Fresh into the lungs, all the forces

> current

> > in the air at that particular moment and place find a lodging

> place

> > and, whether for good or evil, there they are.

> >

> > Therefore the first breath constitutes the beginning of the

> > individual life, and this is the time to record, to the exact

> second,

> > and not the first cry, unless it corresponds to the first breath.

> >

> > regards,

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > >

> > > Yes first breath is important and sufficient.Sometimes as you

> have

> > > said they might overlap or get interchanged as well.It was an

> > > educative discussion.Thanks for all those who have participated.

> > >

> > > Respect

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > I can see your point of view. One has also to remember that

it

> is

> > > Saturn

> > > > who is Ayush karaka and he rules over air. Again generally,

if

> my

> > > > understanding is right, the umbilical cord is cut and then

the

> > > baby's

> > > > nostrils etc. are cleared of mucous, properly and sometimes

> the

> > > baby is

> > > > held upside down, to initiate its first breath. This added to

> the

> > > fact

> > > > of the different meanings of word Prana, lead me to the

> > conclusion

> > > that

> > > > drawal of the first breath is the moment of birth, especially

> as

> > > no one

> > > > can manipulate that moment by mechanical intervention.

> > > >

> > > > But then as I said this is my personal opinion.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the mail and sorry for the delayed reply.You have

> > > > > mentioned a very valid point ''the breath that one draws in

> is

> > > > > called prana''.Before birth ''Prana'' drawn in by mother

> > sustains

> > > > > the baby.

> > > > >

> > > > > It seems even after birth,the human system is designed,to

> > > > > facilitate,continuation of placental blood and oxygen

> supply.It

> > > has

> > > > > a vital role as well.

> > > > > After the delivery of the child, and before delivery of the

> > > > > placenta,the oxygen supply changes from the placenta to the

> > > lungs.

> > > > > During normal changeover, placental oxygenation continues

> until

> > > > > pulmonary oxygenation is established.

> > > > >

> > > > > During normal changeover, the brain is not deprived of

> oxygen

> > and

> > > > > placental blood is transfused into the child, increasing

its

> > > blood

> > > > > volume, through the lungs augmented by ventilation to

> establish

> > > > > pulmonary oxygenation.After pulmonary oxygenation is

> > > > > established,placental oxygenation ceases - the cord vessels

> > > close;

> > > > > the brain's oxygen supply is not interrupted.On the other

> hand -

> >

> > > if

> > > > > the baby is deprived of placental supply,it can very well

> > result

> > > in

> > > > > brain damage and further complications.

> > > > >

> > > > > '' " [Nature] has arranged it so that during the dangerous

> > passage

> > > of

> > > > > birth, the child is receiving oxygen from two sources

rather

> > than

> > > > > one:from the lungs and from the umbilicus. Two systems

> > > functioning

> > > > > simultaneously, one relieving the other: the old one, the

> > > > > umbilicus,continues to supply oxygen to the baby until the

> new

> > > one,

> > > > > the lungs, has fully taken its place. However, once the

> infant

> > > has

> > > > > been born and delivered from the mother, it remains bound

to

> > her

> > > by

> > > > > this umbilicus, which continues to beat for several long

> > minutes:

> > > > > four . . . five .. . sometimes more. Oxygenated by the

> > umbilicus,

> > > > > sheltered from anoxia, the baby can settle into breathing

> > without

> > > > > danger and without shock. At leisure. .. . In addition, the

> > blood

> > > > > has plenty of time to abandon its old route (which leads to

> the

> > > > > placenta) and progressively to fill the pulmonary

circulatory

> > > > > system. During this time, in parallel fashion, an orifice

> > closes

> > > in

> > > > > the heart, which seals off the old route forever. In

> > > > > short, for an average of four or five minutes, the newborn

> > infant

> > > > > straddles two worlds. Drawing oxygen from two sources, it

> > > switches

> > > > > gradually from the one to the other, without a brutal

> > > transition''.

> > > > >

> > > > > The above stated ''no mans land (cricketing parlance) ''

> during

> > > the

> > > > > first few minutes is my concern.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even though i agree with your point that as first breath is

> > drawn

> > > > > and with the act happening through lungs,a new birth

> > > happens ,total

> > > > > natural independency not being achieved until the cessation

> of

> > > > > placental supply,is keeping ones curiousity alive.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not a disagreement,but i am providing all the facts so

> > > > > that ,we are not missing out on any.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is a difference in the manner that oxygen is

> > assimilated

> > > in

> > > > > a

> > > > > > baby's body through placenta and through intake of

breath.

> In

> > > the

> > > > > former

> > > > > > it is the oxygen that is already absorbed in mother's

> blood

> > > that

> > > > > is

> > > > > > transmitted to the baby through blood via the navel where

> the

> > > > > umbilical

> > > > > > connects to the baby. In the later it is through the

lungs

> > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > oxygen is absorbed to be further absorbed in blood. If you

> > > > > remember it

> > > > > > is the breath that one draws in that is Called Prana

(also

> > > meaning

> > > > > > life). That is why it is very much safe to ignore the

> parallel

> > > > > oxygen

> > > > > > supply as the media is different. Or at least that is

what

> I

> > > think.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes Placenta is acting like an interface.I too have

> > > mentioned in

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > previous mails regarding the duration of supply.Some

say

> > > upto 10

> > > > > > > minutes though it varies from case to case.So there is

a

> > > supply

> > > > > > > similar to back up battery.Whether this can be

accounted

> or

> > > not

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > the doubt.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why was breaking of placental link (which includes

> cutting

> > of

> > > > > cord)

> > > > > > > considered by some as a birth time is the

> > > concern.Crying/Breath

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > the ideal choice,if it is safe enough to ignore the

> parallel

> > > > > supply.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think the oxygen supply is from the wall of the

> uterus

> > > to the

> > > > > > > placenta

> > > > > > > > through the umbilical cord to the navel of the fetus.

> > > Placenta

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > transfer medium which supplies nutrients, oxygen,

> > > antibodies

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > hormones etc. from the mother's blood to the fetus

and

> > > carries

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > waste

> > > > > > > > generated by the fetus back. Once the placenta is

> > detached

> > > from

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > uterus, I doubt if the oxygen supply continues,

> barring

> > > that

> > > > > > > available

> > > > > > > > in the blood that remains in the placenta. That is

why

> > > once the

> > > > > > > amniotic

> > > > > > > > fluid and the baby containing sack is broken one has

> to

> > > ensure

> > > > > > > that the

> > > > > > > > baby begins breathing soon. It is this independent

> first

> > > breath

> > > > > > > that is

> > > > > > > > the time of birth. Of course as i have said earlier,

> this

> > > is my

> > > > > > > personal

> > > > > > > > opinion and others could hold a different view.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous

> aspects.

> > > > > > > > > Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a

> custom ? -

> > > Some

> > > > > > > > > psychological/physiological reasons can as well be

> > behind

> > > > > this.

> > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked

> to

> > > hold

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > baby

> > > > > > > > > above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the

> > > > > intensity of

> > > > > > > > > crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father

> is

> > > asked

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > cut

> > > > > > > > > the cord.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Personally i would also love to lean towards your

> > view,as

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > breath marks an independent act from the child,save

> for

> > > the

> > > > > below

> > > > > > > > > concern.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen

> > apart

> > > from

> > > > > > > > > nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three

> > > vessels)

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they

> > > > > say,amniotic

> > > > > > > sac

> > > > > > > > > is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for

> > > couple of

> > > > > > > hours

> > > > > > > > > before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to

> > > > > astrology.But

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the

> > > natural

> > > > > > > cessation

> > > > > > > > > of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen

> supply.Some

> > > say

> > > > > > > within 10

> > > > > > > > > minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The point i would love to probe is - when is the

> baby

> > > totally

> > > > > > > > > independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a

> > > parallel

> > > > > > > > > supply,then the baby is not totally

> independent.Cutting

> > > makes

> > > > > > > it.But

> > > > > > > > > if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation

> > > time/point

> > > > > > > > > happens in between in a silent fashion and goes

> > > unnoticed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us

> alive,then

> > > > > > > independent

> > > > > > > > > existence or birth should have a a single input.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > All these depends on the divine/technical switch

> > > designed by

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly

> > > mentioned we

> > > > > > > need

> > > > > > > > > to know atleast the basic

> physiological,functionalities

> > > with

> > > > > > > > > authenticity,to comment further.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Historical points that you have in mind may be

> > shared,if

> > > it

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > help

> > > > > > > > > to further our understanding.I totally agree with

> your

> > > point

> > > > > > > > > that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time

> does

> > > not

> > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > sense.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I think in the western world these days it is

> > becoming

> > > a

> > > > > > > practice

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > fathers to be present or even assist at the time

of

> > > > > delivery of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor

> > asked

> > > > > you to

> > > > > > > cut

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a

> > means

> > > of

> > > > > > > > > rewarding the

> > > > > > > > > > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a

lady

> > > > > deliver her

> > > > > > > > > child.

> > > > > > > > > > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent.

> As

> > > far

> > > > > as I

> > > > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > > > in the old days it was the custom to distribute

> sugar

> > > to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > acquaintances when a child was born.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I do not think placenta has anything to do with

> oxygen

> > > > > supply.

> > > > > > > It

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > filled with blood and in case of carnivores

> provides

> > > > > immediate

> > > > > > > > > > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the

> > > custom in

> > > > > > > human

> > > > > > > > > beings

> > > > > > > > > > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the

> > > herbivores

> > > > > too

> > > > > > > tend

> > > > > > > > > to eat

> > > > > > > > > > the placenta.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Remember that there is no fixed time when

placenta

> > > must be

> > > > > cut

> > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna

> changes,

> > > for

> > > > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > cord and this would mean human being deciding the

> > time

> > > of

> > > > > > > birth of

> > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > individual. This would mean the very basis on

> which

> > > Jyotish

> > > > > > > > > edifice

> > > > > > > > > > stands will become faulty and purva karma and

time

> of

> > > birth

> > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > decided because of that and one getting the

> horoscope

> > > > > based on

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > > > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that

> > > should be

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > case.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But as I said it might be better if a

gynecologist

> on

> > > the

> > > > > group

> > > > > > > > > explains

> > > > > > > > > > the process of human birth and explain about

> timing of

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > action can

> > > > > > > > > > be controlled by human beings and which can not

be

> so

> > > > > > > controlled

> > > > > > > > > when a

> > > > > > > > > > child is born so that this question is settled

> once

> > > and for

> > > > > > > all.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There are also other reasons that I do not want

to

> go

> > > > > into, and

> > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > relate to the manner of birth recording in the

> times

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > shastra

> > > > > > > > > > was written, that make me believe that the first

> > > intake of

> > > > > > > breath

> > > > > > > > > > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time

of

> > > birth.

> > > > > I do

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > want

> > > > > > > > > > to enter into that discussion as one can always

> > > interpret

> > > > > > > > > historical

> > > > > > > > > > facts in different manner and that can only lead

> to

> > > more

> > > > > > > confusion.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a

> > > > > different

> > > > > > > view

> > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > subject.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You may have more authentic info regarding men

> > folks

> > > and

> > > > > > > labour

> > > > > > > > > room

> > > > > > > > > > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my

> > > knowledge got

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had

> > > suggested to

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > to do

> > > > > > > > > > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour

> > room,twice -

> > > both

> > > > > > > normal

> > > > > > > > > > > deliveries.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written

> > > that,before

> > > > > > > > > cutting of

> > > > > > > > > > > the cord,father is supposed to give some

> > > sweet ,honey.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned

> was

> > > the

> > > > > > > natural

> > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and

> not

> > an

> > > > > > > artificial

> > > > > > > > > > > supply.How long is a question and it varies

from

> > > case to

> > > > > > > case.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or

> > > shift a

> > > > > > > planned

> > > > > > > > > > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected

> only

> > > if

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the

> time of

> > > > > > > delivery ,it

> > > > > > > > > > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in

> > > nature,so

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > different views regarding the topic can be

> > > > > > > obtained,especially as

> > > > > > > > > > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is

> > > respected

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > -- In

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed

> into

> > the

> > > > > labor

> > > > > > > room

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > > was no question of father cutting the

> umbilical

> > > cord.

> > > > > > > Umbilical

> > > > > > > > > > > cord is

> > > > > > > > > > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the

> > baby

> > > can

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > away

> > > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut.

> > > Since the

> > > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > > > > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the

> > > criteria for

> > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do

> not

> > > think

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > vedic

> > > > > > > > > > > > astrology assumes that a human being can

> change

> > the

> > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > > of a baby.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the

> case

> > of

> > > > > > > organized

> > > > > > > > > > > hospitals

> > > > > > > > > > > > but many babies are born where no such

> provision

> > is

> > > > > there

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down

its

> > > mucous

> > > > > > > removed

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if

> > > there is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > problem,

> > > > > > > > > > > use of

> > > > > > > > > > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to.

> Even

> > > here

> > > > > > > unless

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > baby is

> > > > > > > > > > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether

> oxygen

> > > can be

> > > > > > > forced

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be

> > > better

> > > > > > > placed to

> > > > > > > > > > > comment

> > > > > > > > > > > > on this.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and

> others

> > > may

> > > > > hold a

> > > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have

> bred

> > > dogs

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > know a

> > > > > > > > > > > bit

> > > > > > > > > > > > about the process of birth having assisted

> many

> > of

> > > my

> > > > > > > animals

> > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > breach presentation.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in

> > > > > > > chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > jis

> > > > > > > > > > > view

> > > > > > > > > > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > At the same time i do see a point with

> cutting

> > of

> > > > > > > umbilical

> > > > > > > > > > > chord or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you

> > > > > know,umbilical

> > > > > > > chord

> > > > > > > > > > > connects

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally

> > > disconnetcs

> > > > > > > mother

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and

independent

> > > breath a

> > > > > > > > > parallel

> > > > > > > > > > > oxygen

> > > > > > > > > > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is

> > > broken.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with

> > > > > mother,and

> > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i

see

> a

> > > point

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby

> not

> > > being

> > > > > > > effected

> > > > > > > > > > > until

> > > > > > > > > > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point

> > > keeping

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > curiousity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > awake.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed

> to

> > > cut

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > chord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t

> > > > > Phaldeepika

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of

> placenta

> > > is

> > > > > > > > > controlled by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > human

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as

> the

> > > time of

> > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > whole

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time

> > > > > dictated by

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > may not stand the test of logic.

> Personally I

> > > have

> > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > held

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the

> baby

> > > > > > > indicative of

> > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of breath and thus independent life

should

> be

> > > > > > > considered

> > > > > > > > > as the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath

> is

> > > death

> > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other

> > reasons

> > > for

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > premise but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary.

> > > > > Primarily we

> > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that it is the breath that is called

Prana.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly

> village

> > > > > > > > > astrologer,some

> > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or

> opening of

> > > > > > > placenta is

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said

> he

> > > has

> > > > > > > shlokas to

> > > > > > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts

> towards

> > > his

> > > > > > > views.To

> > > > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg

> and

> > > > > > > protecting

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > 40>, " sreeram

> > > > > > > > > srinivas "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right.

But

> > how

> > > do

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > that a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after

observing

> the

> > > > > > > menstrual

> > > > > > > > > cycle

> > > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The

> ancient

> > > > > rishis

> > > > > > > found

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and

> > > logical to

> > > > > > > record

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > hence,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one

is

> > > > > confused

> > > > > > > > > whether

> > > > > > > > > > > to take

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the

> > > > > umbilical

> > > > > > > cord

> > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > when

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old

> > > customs)..etc.. As

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > variation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is

> > immaterial

> > > > > > > difference.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations

> for

> > > > > > > > > > > best " Garbadharan " and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > research or case studies available on

> > this,

> > > > > for the

> > > > > > > > > simple

> > > > > > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions are too private or

> personal.

> > > Good

> > > > > > > > > ettiquette

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or

> > discuss

> > > > > this.

> > > > > > > > > There is

> > > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

> > > > > > > > > subject....original and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many

> other

> > > > > highly

> > > > > > > > > qualified

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures

> > > > > including

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > mythology,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance

> than

> > > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and

> some

> > > > > > > predictions

> > > > > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary

> > > > > positions ),

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > is done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the " amsa " calculations. Some of this

> > > ancient

> > > > > > > science

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > lost

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my

> > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > > know if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention

it

> > > > > properly

> > > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > literature

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our

mythologies

> > > denote

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > reflect

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based

> muhurtas)

> > > rather

> > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of

Lord

> > > Ravan

> > > > > > > kidnapping

> > > > > > > > > > > Goddess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called something " Vinda " , a result of

> > > which was

> > > > > > > > > > > destruction or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as

> > King

> > > of

> > > > > > > Ayodhya,

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi

> > > Vasisth, (

> > > > > > > can he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new

> > > revelation or

> > > > > > > > > > > understanding of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to your mental

inquisitiveness,

> the

> > > > > original

> > > > > > > > > timing

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed,

> > > however,

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising

> the

> > > > > clarion

> > > > > > > conch

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few

> > > knowledgeable

> > > > > > > astros

> > > > > > > > > > > including

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru

> > > Dronacharya,

> > > > > Dhaan

> > > > > > > Vir

> > > > > > > > > > > Karna,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku &

> > > Sakadev,

> > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit

> > translation

> > > of

> > > > > > > > > Mahabharat {

> > > > > > > > > > > > > surely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an

> > interesting

> > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring

> > > Duryodhan

> > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas.

> This

> > > > > > > controversy

> > > > > > > > > > > still goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place

and

> > > > > location

> > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > war was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri

> Lord

> > > Krishna

> > > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons

> being

> > > that

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > SOIL

> > > > > > > > > > > there at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There

> are

> > few

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > interesting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student

of

> > > > > > > > > > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while

> as

> > we

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > touched

> > > > > > > > > > > few

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more

> > > > > > > lines....though

> > > > > > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or

> Chief

> > > > > adviser

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > Ram's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to

> > train

> > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > Ram &

> > > > > > > > > > > brothers

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of

> > > > > war........and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the lines - the original

> > > translations -

> > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are

> > > available

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > telugu,

> > > > > > > > > > > but due

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > education stress in English or

> Hinglish,

> > > > > tracing

> > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > books

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in

> poetry

> > > form

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > Telugu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> [

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>]

> > > On

> > > > > > > Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > > > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57

> PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time

fo

> > > birth

> > > > > which

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > essential

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it

> > wrong

> > > for

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > believe

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be

> looking

> > > into,

> > > > > > > because

> > > > > > > > > > > life was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for

me

> to

> > > > > believe

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we

> > should

> > > all

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > > > > into.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th

> Nov

> > > so i

> > > > > > > might be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact

9

> > > months

> > > > > > > delivery

> > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that

> > > babies in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > womb

> > > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb

> we

> > > have

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > living

> > > > > > > > > > > long

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I

> > really

> > > > > need

> > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our

> > > > > lifechart

> > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > <http://geo./serv?>

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>>

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > >

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > >

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > >

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > >

> > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>

> > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have

> > > been

> > > > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------

-

> ---

> > -

> > > ----

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > ----

> > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database:

> > > 268.18.3/696 -

> > > > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > -----------

-

> ---

> > -

> > > ----

> > > > > ----

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database:

> > 268.18.3/696 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > ---------------

-

> ---

> > -

> > > ----

> > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database:

268.18.4/702 -

>

> > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > 2/25/2007 3:16 PM

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > -------------------

-

> ---

> > -

> > > -

> > > > > > > -------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 -

> > Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > 2/25/2007 3:16 PM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

March 18, 2007

Dear Bhaskar ji

You are right.I was mentioning about a possible error(tensions

during labour time -doubt on which time to choose) when even after

the time keeping being fool proof(technological advance).

Your mail has made me realize the other possible errors.

Pradeep

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeepji,

>

> Yes,in almost all cases time error of 1-2 minutes is present.

> We just have to look in our own house to prove this.

> In Your bedroom,notice the time on the wall clock,on the

> PC (If you have one here),on the Cell Phone,On your wrist

> watch,on youe wifes wrist watch, on your wifes cell,

> in your childrens watch, and you shall find a difference

> of 1-2 minutes in all timings.

> Same goes for the hospitals too. Who has the time in

> hospital to periodically check the clock and adjust it

> to the IST. Therefore the difference is bound to be there.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji

> >

> > Thanks for the views.

> > In that case the baby may start breathing upon ''expulsion'' of

> head

> > and Roger may have a vargottama lagna in case nursing staff had

> > waited until the full body was out.

> > But normally for the head to come out is tough as compared to

rest.

> > It proves that recording birth time accurately is not an easy

> > job.From my experience possibility for an error of two minutes

or

> so

> > is present in every case.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> > - In , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > This subject is never ending. But it seems that the first cry

is

> > not

> > > important after all,as I have been doing some reseraches and

> found

> > > that some children do not cry immediately after birth.

> > >

> > > What causes the manifestation of the voice or the cry ? It is

the

> > > outcoming air expelled from the lungs, Understand well that

these

> > > lungs do not breathe until the child is born. Therefore air

must

> > be

> > > inhaled first., before it is expelled. And it is with the

first

> > > breath the new born child takes, that the Cosmic rays enter

also.

> > > what a mighty effect the first respiration, must produce in

the

> > body

> > > of the newwly arrived. Fresh into the lungs, all the forces

> > current

> > > in the air at that particular moment and place find a lodging

> > place

> > > and, whether for good or evil, there they are.

> > >

> > > Therefore the first breath constitutes the beginning of the

> > > individual life, and this is the time to record, to the exact

> > second,

> > > and not the first cry, unless it corresponds to the first

breath.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > >

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > >

> > > > Yes first breath is important and sufficient.Sometimes as

you

> > have

> > > > said they might overlap or get interchanged as well.It was

an

> > > > educative discussion.Thanks for all those who have

participated.

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > I can see your point of view. One has also to remember

that

> it

> > is

> > > > Saturn

> > > > > who is Ayush karaka and he rules over air. Again

generally,

> if

> > my

> > > > > understanding is right, the umbilical cord is cut and then

> the

> > > > baby's

> > > > > nostrils etc. are cleared of mucous, properly and

sometimes

> > the

> > > > baby is

> > > > > held upside down, to initiate its first breath. This added

to

> > the

> > > > fact

> > > > > of the different meanings of word Prana, lead me to the

> > > conclusion

> > > > that

> > > > > drawal of the first breath is the moment of birth,

especially

> > as

> > > > no one

> > > > > can manipulate that moment by mechanical intervention.

> > > > >

> > > > > But then as I said this is my personal opinion.

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the mail and sorry for the delayed reply.You

have

> > > > > > mentioned a very valid point ''the breath that one draws

in

> > is

> > > > > > called prana''.Before birth ''Prana'' drawn in by mother

> > > sustains

> > > > > > the baby.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It seems even after birth,the human system is designed,to

> > > > > > facilitate,continuation of placental blood and oxygen

> > supply.It

> > > > has

> > > > > > a vital role as well.

> > > > > > After the delivery of the child, and before delivery of

the

> > > > > > placenta,the oxygen supply changes from the placenta to

the

> > > > lungs.

> > > > > > During normal changeover, placental oxygenation

continues

> > until

> > > > > > pulmonary oxygenation is established.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > During normal changeover, the brain is not deprived of

> > oxygen

> > > and

> > > > > > placental blood is transfused into the child, increasing

> its

> > > > blood

> > > > > > volume, through the lungs augmented by ventilation to

> > establish

> > > > > > pulmonary oxygenation.After pulmonary oxygenation is

> > > > > > established,placental oxygenation ceases - the cord

vessels

> > > > close;

> > > > > > the brain's oxygen supply is not interrupted.On the

other

> > hand -

> > >

> > > > if

> > > > > > the baby is deprived of placental supply,it can very

well

> > > result

> > > > in

> > > > > > brain damage and further complications.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > '' " [Nature] has arranged it so that during the dangerous

> > > passage

> > > > of

> > > > > > birth, the child is receiving oxygen from two sources

> rather

> > > than

> > > > > > one:from the lungs and from the umbilicus. Two systems

> > > > functioning

> > > > > > simultaneously, one relieving the other: the old one, the

> > > > > > umbilicus,continues to supply oxygen to the baby until

the

> > new

> > > > one,

> > > > > > the lungs, has fully taken its place. However, once the

> > infant

> > > > has

> > > > > > been born and delivered from the mother, it remains

bound

> to

> > > her

> > > > by

> > > > > > this umbilicus, which continues to beat for several long

> > > minutes:

> > > > > > four . . . five .. . sometimes more. Oxygenated by the

> > > umbilicus,

> > > > > > sheltered from anoxia, the baby can settle into

breathing

> > > without

> > > > > > danger and without shock. At leisure. .. . In addition,

the

> > > blood

> > > > > > has plenty of time to abandon its old route (which leads

to

> > the

> > > > > > placenta) and progressively to fill the pulmonary

> circulatory

> > > > > > system. During this time, in parallel fashion, an

orifice

> > > closes

> > > > in

> > > > > > the heart, which seals off the old route forever. In

> > > > > > short, for an average of four or five minutes, the

newborn

> > > infant

> > > > > > straddles two worlds. Drawing oxygen from two sources,

it

> > > > switches

> > > > > > gradually from the one to the other, without a brutal

> > > > transition''.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The above stated ''no mans land (cricketing parlance) ''

> > during

> > > > the

> > > > > > first few minutes is my concern.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Even though i agree with your point that as first breath

is

> > > drawn

> > > > > > and with the act happening through lungs,a new birth

> > > > happens ,total

> > > > > > natural independency not being achieved until the

cessation

> > of

> > > > > > placental supply,is keeping ones curiousity alive.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is not a disagreement,but i am providing all the

facts so

> > > > > > that ,we are not missing out on any.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There is a difference in the manner that oxygen is

> > > assimilated

> > > > in

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > baby's body through placenta and through intake of

> breath.

> > In

> > > > the

> > > > > > former

> > > > > > > it is the oxygen that is already absorbed in mother's

> > blood

> > > > that

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > transmitted to the baby through blood via the navel

where

> > the

> > > > > > umbilical

> > > > > > > connects to the baby. In the later it is through the

> lungs

> > > that

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > oxygen is absorbed to be further absorbed in blood. If

you

> > > > > > remember it

> > > > > > > is the breath that one draws in that is Called Prana

> (also

> > > > meaning

> > > > > > > life). That is why it is very much safe to ignore the

> > parallel

> > > > > > oxygen

> > > > > > > supply as the media is different. Or at least that is

> what

> > I

> > > > think.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yes Placenta is acting like an interface.I too have

> > > > mentioned in

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > previous mails regarding the duration of supply.Some

> say

> > > > upto 10

> > > > > > > > minutes though it varies from case to case.So there

is

> a

> > > > supply

> > > > > > > > similar to back up battery.Whether this can be

> accounted

> > or

> > > > not

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the doubt.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why was breaking of placental link (which includes

> > cutting

> > > of

> > > > > > cord)

> > > > > > > > considered by some as a birth time is the

> > > > concern.Crying/Breath

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the ideal choice,if it is safe enough to ignore the

> > parallel

> > > > > > supply.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think the oxygen supply is from the wall of the

> > uterus

> > > > to the

> > > > > > > > placenta

> > > > > > > > > through the umbilical cord to the navel of the

fetus.

> > > > Placenta

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > transfer medium which supplies nutrients, oxygen,

> > > > antibodies

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > hormones etc. from the mother's blood to the fetus

> and

> > > > carries

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > waste

> > > > > > > > > generated by the fetus back. Once the placenta is

> > > detached

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > uterus, I doubt if the oxygen supply continues,

> > barring

> > > > that

> > > > > > > > available

> > > > > > > > > in the blood that remains in the placenta. That is

> why

> > > > once the

> > > > > > > > amniotic

> > > > > > > > > fluid and the baby containing sack is broken one

has

> > to

> > > > ensure

> > > > > > > > that the

> > > > > > > > > baby begins breathing soon. It is this independent

> > first

> > > > breath

> > > > > > > > that is

> > > > > > > > > the time of birth. Of course as i have said

earlier,

> > this

> > > > is my

> > > > > > > > personal

> > > > > > > > > opinion and others could hold a different view.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous

> > aspects.

> > > > > > > > > > Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a

> > custom ? -

> > > > Some

> > > > > > > > > > psychological/physiological reasons can as well

be

> > > behind

> > > > > > this.

> > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > baby is handed over to the mother and she is

asked

> > to

> > > > hold

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > baby

> > > > > > > > > > above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce

the

> > > > > > intensity of

> > > > > > > > > > crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the

father

> > is

> > > > asked

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > cut

> > > > > > > > > > the cord.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Personally i would also love to lean towards

your

> > > view,as

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > breath marks an independent act from the

child,save

> > for

> > > > the

> > > > > > below

> > > > > > > > > > concern.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > As per medical journals,Placenta does supply

oygen

> > > apart

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has

three

> > > > vessels)

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also

they

> > > > > > say,amniotic

> > > > > > > > sac

> > > > > > > > > > is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal

side.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting

for

> > > > couple of

> > > > > > > > hours

> > > > > > > > > > before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to

> > > > > > astrology.But

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does

the

> > > > natural

> > > > > > > > cessation

> > > > > > > > > > of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen

> > supply.Some

> > > > say

> > > > > > > > within 10

> > > > > > > > > > minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no

impact.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The point i would love to probe is - when is the

> > baby

> > > > totally

> > > > > > > > > > independent.Even after the first cry,if there is

a

> > > > parallel

> > > > > > > > > > supply,then the baby is not totally

> > independent.Cutting

> > > > makes

> > > > > > > > it.But

> > > > > > > > > > if one is prolonging the cut,the natural

cessation

> > > > time/point

> > > > > > > > > > happens in between in a silent fashion and goes

> > > > unnoticed.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us

> > alive,then

> > > > > > > > independent

> > > > > > > > > > existence or birth should have a a single input.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > All these depends on the divine/technical switch

> > > > designed by

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly

> > > > mentioned we

> > > > > > > > need

> > > > > > > > > > to know atleast the basic

> > physiological,functionalities

> > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > authenticity,to comment further.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Historical points that you have in mind may be

> > > shared,if

> > > > it

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > help

> > > > > > > > > > to further our understanding.I totally agree

with

> > your

> > > > point

> > > > > > > > > > that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected

time

> > does

> > > > not

> > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > sense.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I think in the western world these days it is

> > > becoming

> > > > a

> > > > > > > > practice

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > fathers to be present or even assist at the

time

> of

> > > > > > delivery of

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > mother. So that may be the reason that the

doctor

> > > asked

> > > > > > you to

> > > > > > > > cut

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > cord. I could not state anything about this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be

a

> > > means

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > rewarding the

> > > > > > > > > > > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a

> lady

> > > > > > deliver her

> > > > > > > > > > child.

> > > > > > > > > > > But I do not know where this custom is

prevalent.

> > As

> > > > far

> > > > > > as I

> > > > > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > > > > in the old days it was the custom to

distribute

> > sugar

> > > > to

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > acquaintances when a child was born.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I do not think placenta has anything to do

with

> > oxygen

> > > > > > supply.

> > > > > > > > It

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > filled with blood and in case of carnivores

> > provides

> > > > > > immediate

> > > > > > > > > > > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not

the

> > > > custom in

> > > > > > > > human

> > > > > > > > > > beings

> > > > > > > > > > > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the

> > > > herbivores

> > > > > > too

> > > > > > > > tend

> > > > > > > > > > to eat

> > > > > > > > > > > the placenta.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Remember that there is no fixed time when

> placenta

> > > > must be

> > > > > > cut

> > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna

> > changes,

> > > > for

> > > > > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > cord and this would mean human being deciding

the

> > > time

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > birth of

> > > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > individual. This would mean the very basis on

> > which

> > > > Jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > edifice

> > > > > > > > > > > stands will become faulty and purva karma and

> time

> > of

> > > > birth

> > > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > > decided because of that and one getting the

> > horoscope

> > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > > > > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think

that

> > > > should be

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > case.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But as I said it might be better if a

> gynecologist

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > > group

> > > > > > > > > > explains

> > > > > > > > > > > the process of human birth and explain about

> > timing of

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > action can

> > > > > > > > > > > be controlled by human beings and which can

not

> be

> > so

> > > > > > > > controlled

> > > > > > > > > > when a

> > > > > > > > > > > child is born so that this question is settled

> > once

> > > > and for

> > > > > > > > all.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There are also other reasons that I do not

want

> to

> > go

> > > > > > into, and

> > > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > > relate to the manner of birth recording in the

> > times

> > > > that

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > shastra

> > > > > > > > > > > was written, that make me believe that the

first

> > > > intake of

> > > > > > > > breath

> > > > > > > > > > > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the

time

> of

> > > > birth.

> > > > > > I do

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > want

> > > > > > > > > > > to enter into that discussion as one can

always

> > > > interpret

> > > > > > > > > > historical

> > > > > > > > > > > facts in different manner and that can only

lead

> > to

> > > > more

> > > > > > > > confusion.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > As I said this is my opinion and others may

hold a

> > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > view

> > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > subject.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You may have more authentic info regarding

men

> > > folks

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > labour

> > > > > > > > > > room

> > > > > > > > > > > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my

> > > > knowledge got

> > > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > > > > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had

> > > > suggested to

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > to do

> > > > > > > > > > > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour

> > > room,twice -

> > > > both

> > > > > > > > normal

> > > > > > > > > > > > deliveries.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is

written

> > > > that,before

> > > > > > > > > > cutting of

> > > > > > > > > > > > the cord,father is supposed to give some

> > > > sweet ,honey.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had

mentioned

> > was

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > natural

> > > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > > coming through umblical cord from placenta

and

> > not

> > > an

> > > > > > > > artificial

> > > > > > > > > > > > supply.How long is a question and it varies

> from

> > > > case to

> > > > > > > > case.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt

or

> > > > shift a

> > > > > > > > planned

> > > > > > > > > > > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be

elected

> > only

> > > > if

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of

cord.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the

> > time of

> > > > > > > > delivery ,it

> > > > > > > > > > > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > As you know ,my queries are only educative

in

> > > > nature,so

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > different views regarding the topic can be

> > > > > > > > obtained,especially as

> > > > > > > > > > > > such a consideration is present in classics.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is

> > > > respected

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > -- In

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed

> > into

> > > the

> > > > > > labor

> > > > > > > > room

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > was no question of father cutting the

> > umbilical

> > > > cord.

> > > > > > > > Umbilical

> > > > > > > > > > > > cord is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and

the

> > > baby

> > > > can

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > away

> > > > > > > > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not

cut.

> > > > Since the

> > > > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > > > cutting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the

> > > > criteria for

> > > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I

do

> > not

> > > > think

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > vedic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology assumes that a human being can

> > change

> > > the

> > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > > > of a baby.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is

the

> > case

> > > of

> > > > > > > > organized

> > > > > > > > > > > > hospitals

> > > > > > > > > > > > > but many babies are born where no such

> > provision

> > > is

> > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down

> its

> > > > mucous

> > > > > > > > removed

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only

if

> > > > there is

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > problem,

> > > > > > > > > > > > use of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted

to.

> > Even

> > > > here

> > > > > > > > unless

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > baby is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether

> > oxygen

> > > > can be

> > > > > > > > forced

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would

be

> > > > better

> > > > > > > > placed to

> > > > > > > > > > > > comment

> > > > > > > > > > > > > on this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and

> > others

> > > > may

> > > > > > hold a

> > > > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have

> > bred

> > > > dogs

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > know a

> > > > > > > > > > > > bit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > about the process of birth having assisted

> > many

> > > of

> > > > my

> > > > > > > > animals

> > > > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > breach presentation.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point

in

> > > > > > > > chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > jis

> > > > > > > > > > > > view

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regarding death and stop of breath.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the same time i do see a point with

> > cutting

> > > of

> > > > > > > > umbilical

> > > > > > > > > > > > chord or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you

> > > > > > know,umbilical

> > > > > > > > chord

> > > > > > > > > > > > connects

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the mother and baby through placenta.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord

naturally

> > > > disconnetcs

> > > > > > > > mother

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and

> independent

> > > > breath a

> > > > > > > > > > parallel

> > > > > > > > > > > > oxygen

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > supply is present until the link(chord)

is

> > > > broken.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link

with

> > > > > > mother,and

> > > > > > > > hence

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > cannot point to a birth time.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i

> see

> > a

> > > > point

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > explanation,total independency of the

baby

> > not

> > > > being

> > > > > > > > effected

> > > > > > > > > > > > until

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another

point

> > > > keeping

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > > curiousity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > awake.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also do you know why the father is

supposed

> > to

> > > > cut

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > chord.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring

t

> > > > > > Phaldeepika

> > > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mention

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of

> > placenta

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > controlled by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > human

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted

as

> > the

> > > > time of

> > > > > > > > birth

> > > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > whole

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a

time

> > > > > > dictated by

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > > purva

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > karma

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may not stand the test of logic.

> > Personally I

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > always

> > > > > > > > > > held

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of

the

> > baby

> > > > > > > > indicative of

> > > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of breath and thus independent life

> should

> > be

> > > > > > > > considered

> > > > > > > > > > as the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > time of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of

breath

> > is

> > > > death

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > intake

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other

> > > reasons

> > > > for

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > premise but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussing them all may not be

necessary.

> > > > > > Primarily we

> > > > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > remember

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that it is the breath that is called

> Prana.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear respected members

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly

> > village

> > > > > > > > > > astrologer,some

> > > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or

> > opening of

> > > > > > > > placenta is

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He

said

> > he

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > shlokas to

> > > > > > > > > > > > support

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > his view.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts

> > towards

> > > > his

> > > > > > > > views.To

> > > > > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Placenta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an

egg

> > and

> > > > > > > > protecting

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > baby.When

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is broken,external influence

effects.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your learned views may be

appreciated.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > 40>, " sreeram

> > > > > > > > > > srinivas "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right.

> But

> > > how

> > > > do

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > > > > that a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > woman has

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after

> observing

> > the

> > > > > > > > menstrual

> > > > > > > > > > cycle

> > > > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The

> > ancient

> > > > > > rishis

> > > > > > > > found

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > convenient that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing

and

> > > > logical to

> > > > > > > > record

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > hence,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taken as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically,

one

> is

> > > > > > confused

> > > > > > > > > > whether

> > > > > > > > > > > > to take

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting

the

> > > > > > umbilical

> > > > > > > > cord

> > > > > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > > > when

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > child is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old

> > > > customs)..etc.. As

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > variation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is

> > > immaterial

> > > > > > > > difference.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have

combinations

> > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > best " Garbadharan " and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > research or case studies available

on

> > > this,

> > > > > > for the

> > > > > > > > > > simple

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > reason

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that such

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions are too private or

> > personal.

> > > > Good

> > > > > > > > > > ettiquette

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > society

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose

or

> > > discuss

> > > > > > this.

> > > > > > > > > > There is

> > > > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan

> > > > > > > > > > subject....original and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are

many

> > other

> > > > > > highly

> > > > > > > > > > qualified

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > members in this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient

scriptures

> > > > > > including

> > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > mythology,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the muhurta

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of an event is given more

importance

> > than

> > > > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > > > > > horoscope.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it

and

> > some

> > > > > > > > predictions

> > > > > > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it (

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without even considering the

planetary

> > > > > > positions ),

> > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > is done

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > based on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the " amsa " calculations. Some of

this

> > > > ancient

> > > > > > > > science

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > lost

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast

to my

> > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > do not

> > > > > > > > > > > > know if

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even

mention

> it

> > > > > > properly

> > > > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > > literature

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on this is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our

> mythologies

> > > > denote

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > reflect

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based

> > muhurtas)

> > > > rather

> > > > > > > > than

> > > > > > > > > > > > planetary

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much

later.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of

> Lord

> > > > Ravan

> > > > > > > > kidnapping

> > > > > > > > > > > > Goddess

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sita, was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > called something " Vinda " , a result

of

> > > > which was

> > > > > > > > > > > > destruction or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > end of Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama

as

> > > King

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > Ayodhya,

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma

rishi

> > > > Vasisth, (

> > > > > > > > can he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new

> > > > revelation or

> > > > > > > > > > > > understanding of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing.......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to your mental

> inquisitiveness,

> > the

> > > > > > original

> > > > > > > > > > timing

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was

fixed,

> > > > however,

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preponed the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by

raising

> > the

> > > > > > clarion

> > > > > > > > conch

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > call.....of war !!!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few

> > > > knowledgeable

> > > > > > > > astros

> > > > > > > > > > > > including

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru

> > > > Dronacharya,

> > > > > > Dhaan

> > > > > > > > Vir

> > > > > > > > > > > > Karna,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chief

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku

&

> > > > Sakadev,

> > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit

> > > translation

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Mahabharat {

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > surely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an

> > > interesting

> > > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > > > between

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring

> > > > Duryodhan

> > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > issue

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > completion of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of

Pandavas.

> > This

> > > > > > > > controversy

> > > > > > > > > > > > still goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e. 360

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual

year....etc..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the

place

> and

> > > > > > location

> > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > war was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri

> > Lord

> > > > Krishna

> > > > > > > > i.e.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for certain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons

> > being

> > > > that

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > SOIL

> > > > > > > > > > > > there at

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL.

There

> > are

> > > few

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > interesting

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_cryptic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clues here for an interested

student

> of

> > > > > > > > > > > > astrology.......left to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > each one's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the

same......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a

while

> > as

> > > we

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > touched

> > > > > > > > > > > > few

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > things on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few

more

> > > > > > > > lines....though

> > > > > > > > > > > > learned

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brahma Rishi

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru

or

> > Chief

> > > > > > adviser

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ram's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > family, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra

to

> > > train

> > > > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > Ram &

> > > > > > > > > > > > brothers

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the field

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of

> > > > > > war........and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > technique......

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > { read

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the lines - the original

> > > > translations -

> > > > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_message is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > involved here }

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations

are

> > > > available

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > telugu,

> > > > > > > > > > > > but due

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to modern

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > education stress in English or

> > Hinglish,

> > > > > > tracing

> > > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > books

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in

> > poetry

> > > > form

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > Telugu.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram64@

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > [

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > 40>]

> > > > On

> > > > > > > > Behalf Of

> > > > > > > > > > > > GYATHRI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PATANJOTHI

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007

12:57

> > PM

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish remedies

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our

time

> fo

> > > > birth

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > essential

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > element

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is

it

> > > wrong

> > > > for

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > believe

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be

> > looking

> > > > into,

> > > > > > > > because

> > > > > > > > > > > > life was

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given once

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong

for

> me

> > to

> > > > > > believe

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that

we

> > > should

> > > > all

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > looking

> > > > > > > > > > > > into.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the

25th

> > Nov

> > > > so i

> > > > > > > > might be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an

exact

> 9

> > > > months

> > > > > > > > delivery

> > > > > > > > > > > > without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > premature.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to other sources too,

that

> > > > babies in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > womb

> > > > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers

womb

> > we

> > > > have

> > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > > living

> > > > > > > > > > > > long

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence

I

> > > really

> > > > > > need

> > > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clarification of a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating

our

> > > > > > lifechart

> > > > > > > > based

> > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyathri

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv?>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>>>

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > <http://geo./serv?>

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > <http://geo./serv?>

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>>>>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > <http://geo./serv?>

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?

>>>

> > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > >

> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>

> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv?