Guest guest Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Cont. Dear Dev, What I meant by the last mail is that unless the placenta is detached from the uterus of the mother a baby is not born. If a baby is inside the womb of the mother, when the placenta and umbilical cord will remain attached to the mother's uterus, it is not said to be born anyway. Chandrashekhar. Dev Kumar wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar Ji > If the Placenta and Umbilical cord is intact (Attached to the mother), the > child receives oxygen and nutrients, so it does not need to breathe on its > own. > > The need to sustain itself arises only when the supply is cut from the > mother. Hope the concept is clear. > > Dev Kumar > > On 2/28/07, Chandrashekhar <chandrashekhar46 > <chandrashekhar46%40.co.uk>> wrote: > > > > Dear Dev, > > > > I think there is something wrong in understanding what the Doctors must > > have said. It is perfectly possible for a child to breath even if the > > placenta is attached or if the umbilical cord is not severed. > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > jumanji1957 wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar Ji > > > > > > Sir, there is very little room for doubt. If a person is to be > > > declared dead, when was it born?? > > > > > > If the baby does not breathe, medically the birth is declared as a > > > gravid birth where death occurred during birth, or in the womb > itself!!! > > > > > > Sir, I had the rare honor of attending a Doctor's conference where the > > > subject of birth time was being discussed and this is what was > > > declared as a unanimous decision. > > > > > > Logically it seems quite good, because the baby WILL breathe ONLY when > > > it is deprived of oxygen from its mother) which comes through the > > > Placenta and Umbilical Cord. > > > > > > I will welcome any other explanation that will define " Independent > life " > > > > > > Dev Kumar > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Dev, > > > > Your post is a bit confusing. Do you mean that if the umbilical cord > > is > > > > cut the child is born alive even if it does not draw the first > breath > > > > and is declared born dead by the Doctors? > > > > > > > > I am sure you do not mean that just because hospitals record the > > > time of > > > > cutting of umbilical cord as time of birth, science of astrology > > should > > > > treat it as the time of birth if the original parameters were > > different. > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > jumanji1957 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone > > > > > > > > > > Allow me to add my two cents on this discussion. As long as > the baby > > > > > is attached to the mother through the Umbilical cord it receives > > > > > oxygen from the mother and does not need to breathe. > > > > > > > > > > Time of birth technically is recorded when the umbilical cord is > > cut!! > > > > > The baby thus deprived of live saving oxygen now needs to > breathe to > > > > > survive. > > > > > > > > > > In some cases where the baby does not start breathing, the > attendant > > > > > doctors and nurses pinch the baby to facilitate the natural > process. > > > > > If this fails, artificial resuscitation attempts are then > initiated. > > > > > > > > > > If all attempts to revive the baby fails and the baby does not > > > > > breathe, death is announced. > > > > > > > > > > So in Medical Technical terms, birth time is the one where > > independent > > > > > life comes into existence on this planet. This happens only > when the > > > > > umbilical cord is cut!!! > > > > > > > > > > All major hospitals record cutting of Umbilical cord as birth > time. > > > > > However in cases where the staff is negligent or busy with the > > mother > > > > > and the child they fail to note the time, hence discrepancies > cannot > > > > > be ruled out. > > > > > > > > > > Hope the concept is clear. Warm regards > > > > > > > > > > Dev Kumar > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, " vijayadas_pradeep " > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous aspects. > > > > > > Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a custom ? - Some > > > > > > psychological/physiological reasons can as well be behind this. > > The > > > > > > baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked to hold the > > baby > > > > > > above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the intensity of > > > > > > crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father is asked to > > cut > > > > > > the cord. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally i would also love to lean towards your view,as first > > > > > > breath marks an independent act from the child,save for the > below > > > > > > concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen apart from > > > > > > nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three vessels) and > > > > > > hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they say,amniotic > > sac > > > > > > is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for couple of > > hours > > > > > > before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to > astrology.But the > > > > > > tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the natural > > cessation > > > > > > of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen supply.Some say > within > > 10 > > > > > > minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact. > > > > > > > > > > > > The point i would love to probe is - when is the baby totally > > > > > > independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a parallel > > > > > > supply,then the baby is not totally independent.Cutting makes > > it.But > > > > > > if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation time/point > > > > > > happens in between in a silent fashion and goes unnoticed. > > > > > > > > > > > > If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us alive,then > > independent > > > > > > existence or birth should have a a single input. > > > > > > > > > > > > All these depends on the divine/technical switch designed by the > > > > > > Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly mentioned > we need > > > > > > to know atleast the basic physiological,functionalities with > > > > > > authenticity,to comment further. > > > > > > > > > > > > Historical points that you have in mind may be shared,if it can > > help > > > > > > to further our understanding.I totally agree with your point > > > > > > that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time does not make > > > > > > sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > Respect > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think in the western world these days it is becoming a > > practice > > > > > > for > > > > > > > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of > delivery of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to > > cut > > > > > > the > > > > > > > cord. I could not state anything about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of > > > > > > rewarding the > > > > > > > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady > deliver her > > > > > > child. > > > > > > > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I > > > > > > remember > > > > > > > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the > > > > > > > acquaintances when a child was born. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate > > > > > > > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in > > human > > > > > > beings > > > > > > > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too > > tend > > > > > > to eat > > > > > > > the placenta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for > cutting > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of > birth > > of > > > > > > an > > > > > > > individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish > > > > > > edifice > > > > > > > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth > > being > > > > > > > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on > > his > > > > > > purva > > > > > > > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the > > > > > > case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the > group > > > > > > explains > > > > > > > the process of human birth and explain about timing of which > > > > > > action can > > > > > > > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so > controlled > > > > > > when a > > > > > > > child is born so that this question is settled once and > for all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go > into, and > > > > > > they > > > > > > > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the > > > > > > shastra > > > > > > > was written, that make me believe that the first intake of > > breath > > > > > > > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do > > not > > > > > > want > > > > > > > to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret > > > > > > historical > > > > > > > facts in different manner and that can only lead to more > > > confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different > > view > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and > > labour > > > > > > room > > > > > > > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got > > > through > > > > > > > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me > > > to do > > > > > > > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both > > normal > > > > > > > > deliveries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before > > > > > > cutting of > > > > > > > > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the > > natural > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an > > artificial > > > > > > > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to > case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a > > planned > > > > > > > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the > > lord > > > > > > > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of > > > delivery ,it > > > > > > > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that > > > > > > > > different views regarding the topic can be > > > obtained,especially as > > > > > > > > such a consideration is present in classics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor > > room > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. > > > Umbilical > > > > > > > > cord is > > > > > > > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be > > away > > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the > > > time of > > > > > > > > cutting > > > > > > > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for > > birth > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think > that > > > > > > vedic > > > > > > > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the > time of > > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > of a baby. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of > > organized > > > > > > > > hospitals > > > > > > > > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there > > and > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous > > removed > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > it is > > > > > > > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a > > > > > > problem, > > > > > > > > use of > > > > > > > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here > unless > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > baby is > > > > > > > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be > > forced > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better > placed > > to > > > > > > > > comment > > > > > > > > > on this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may > hold a > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and > > > know a > > > > > > > > bit > > > > > > > > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my > > animals > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > breach presentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in > chandrashekhar > > > > > > jis > > > > > > > > view > > > > > > > > > > regarding death and stop of breath. > > > > > > > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of > > umbilical > > > > > > > > chord or > > > > > > > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical > > chord > > > > > > > > connects > > > > > > > > > > the mother and baby through placenta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs > > mother > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a > > > > > > parallel > > > > > > > > oxygen > > > > > > > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and > > hence > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > cannot point to a birth time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in > > your > > > > > > > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being > > > effected > > > > > > > > until > > > > > > > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my > > > > > > curiousity > > > > > > > > > > awake. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the > > > chord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respect > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika > > which > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > mention > > > > > > > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is > > > > > > controlled by > > > > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of > > birth > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > whole > > > > > > > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by > > his > > > > > > > > purva > > > > > > > > > > karma > > > > > > > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have > > always > > > > > > held > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby > indicative > > of > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > intake > > > > > > > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be > considered > > > > > > as the > > > > > > > > > > time of > > > > > > > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > intake > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for > that > > > > > > > > premise but > > > > > > > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we > > > must > > > > > > > > > > remember > > > > > > > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear respected members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village > > > > > > astrologer,some > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of > placenta > > is > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has > > > shlokas to > > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > > > > his view. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his > > views.To > > > > > > me > > > > > > > > > > Placenta > > > > > > > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and > protecting > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > baby.When > > > > > > > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, " sreeram > > > > > > srinivas " > > > > > > > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you > > know > > > > > > > > that a > > > > > > > > > > > > woman has > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the > menstrual > > > > > > cycle > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis > > found > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > convenient that > > > > > > > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to > > record > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > hence, > > > > > > > > > > > > taken as > > > > > > > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > to take > > > > > > > > > > > > the time > > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical > > cord > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > child is > > > > > > > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the > > > time > > > > > > > > > > variation > > > > > > > > > > > > in such > > > > > > > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial > > > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for > > > > > > > > best " Garbadharan " and > > > > > > > > > > > > not much > > > > > > > > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, > for the > > > > > > simple > > > > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > > > > that such > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good > > > > > > ettiquette > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > society > > > > > > > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. > > > > > > There is > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > > amount of > > > > > > > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan > > > > > > subject....original and > > > > > > > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly > > > > > > qualified > > > > > > > > > > > > members in this > > > > > > > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures > including our > > > > > > > > mythology, > > > > > > > > > > > > the muhurta > > > > > > > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than > individual > > > > > > > > horoscope. > > > > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some > > predictions > > > > > > > > related > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > it ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary > positions ), > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is done > > > > > > > > > > > > based on > > > > > > > > > > > > > the " amsa " calculations. Some of this ancient > > science > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > lost > > > > > > > > > > > > and very > > > > > > > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge > > > do not > > > > > > > > know if > > > > > > > > > > > > any of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it > properly i.e > > . > > > > > > > > literature > > > > > > > > > > > > on this is > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or > > > > > > reflect > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > importance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) > rather than > > > > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan > > > kidnapping > > > > > > > > Goddess > > > > > > > > > > > > Sita, was > > > > > > > > > > > > > called something " Vinda " , a result of which was > > > > > > > > destruction or > > > > > > > > > > > > end of Lord > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of > > Ayodhya, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > muhurta was > > > > > > > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, > ( can > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood > > > > > > > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or > > > > > > > > understanding of > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the > original > > > > > > timing > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the > > Lord > > > > > > > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > preponed the > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion > > > conch > > > > > > > > > > > > call.....of war !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable > > astros > > > > > > > > including > > > > > > > > > > > > Great > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan > > Vir > > > > > > > > Karna, > > > > > > > > > > > > Chief > > > > > > > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord > > > > > > > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If > > > > > > > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of > > > > > > Mahabharat { > > > > > > > > > > surely > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT those > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting > > discussion > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > Great > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan > on the > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > completion of > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This > > controversy > > > > > > > > still goes > > > > > > > > > > > > i.e. 360 > > > > > > > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location > > > of the > > > > > > > > war was > > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord > Krishna i.e. > > > > > > > > Kurushetra > > > > > > > > > > > > for certain > > > > > > > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the > > SOIL > > > > > > > > there at > > > > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra > > > > > > > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very > > > > > > > > interesting > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_cryptic > > > > > > > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of > > > > > > > > astrology.......left to > > > > > > > > > > > > each one's > > > > > > > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have > > > > > > touched > > > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > > > > things on > > > > > > > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more > > lines....though > > > > > > > > learned > > > > > > > > > > > > Brahma Rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser > > of > > > > > > Lord > > > > > > > > Ram's > > > > > > > > > > > > family, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train > Lord Ram > > & > > > > > > > > brothers > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > the field > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and > > > > > > > > > > technique...... > > > > > > > > > > > > { read > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - > > great > > > > > > > > > > > > astro_message is > > > > > > > > > > > > > involved here } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in > > > > > > telugu, > > > > > > > > but due > > > > > > > > > > > > to modern > > > > > > > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing > > those > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > books > > > > > > > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in > > > > > > Telugu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram64@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>] On > > > Behalf Of > > > > > > > > GYATHRI > > > > > > > > > > > > PATANJOTHI > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > jyotish remedies > > > > > > > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > essential > > > > > > > > > > > > element > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for > me to > > > > > > > > believe > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > there is a > > > > > > > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, > > because > > > > > > > > life was > > > > > > > > > > > > given once > > > > > > > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be > > > > > > looking > > > > > > > > into. > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i > > > might be > > > > > > > > > > conceived > > > > > > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months > > delivery > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > > premature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the > > > womb > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been > > > > > > living > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > > > before we > > > > > > > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > clarification of a > > > > > > > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart > > based > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > of birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyathri > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Dear Pradeep, There is a difference in the manner that oxygen is assimilated in a baby's body through placenta and through intake of breath. In the former it is the oxygen that is already absorbed in mother's blood that is transmitted to the baby through blood via the navel where the umbilical connects to the baby. In the later it is through the lungs that the oxygen is absorbed to be further absorbed in blood. If you remember it is the breath that one draws in that is Called Prana (also meaning life). That is why it is very much safe to ignore the parallel oxygen supply as the media is different. Or at least that is what I think. Chandrashekhar. vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > Yes Placenta is acting like an interface.I too have mentioned in my > previous mails regarding the duration of supply.Some say upto 10 > minutes though it varies from case to case.So there is a supply > similar to back up battery.Whether this can be accounted or not is > the doubt. > > Why was breaking of placental link (which includes cutting of cord) > considered by some as a birth time is the concern.Crying/Breath is > the ideal choice,if it is safe enough to ignore the parallel supply. > > Respect > Pradeep > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > I think the oxygen supply is from the wall of the uterus to the > placenta > > through the umbilical cord to the navel of the fetus. Placenta is > a > > transfer medium which supplies nutrients, oxygen, antibodies and > > hormones etc. from the mother's blood to the fetus and carries the > waste > > generated by the fetus back. Once the placenta is detached from > the > > uterus, I doubt if the oxygen supply continues, barring that > available > > in the blood that remains in the placenta. That is why once the > amniotic > > fluid and the baby containing sack is broken one has to ensure > that the > > baby begins breathing soon. It is this independent first breath > that is > > the time of birth. Of course as i have said earlier, this is my > personal > > opinion and others could hold a different view. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed reply covering numerous aspects. > > > Yes it is a practise,over here and perhaps a custom ? - Some > > > psychological/physiological reasons can as well be behind this. > The > > > baby is handed over to the mother and she is asked to hold the > baby > > > above and close to her abdomen.This then reduce the intensity of > > > crying(warmth and psychology).Thereafter the father is asked to > cut > > > the cord. > > > > > > Personally i would also love to lean towards your view,as first > > > breath marks an independent act from the child,save for the below > > > concern. > > > > > > As per medical journals,Placenta does supply oygen apart from > > > nutrients to the baby through the cord(it has three vessels) and > > > hence the cord pulsates,even after birth.Also they say,amniotic > sac > > > is part of the placenta membrane at the fetal side. > > > > > > As you have rightly mentioned,if one is waiting for couple of > hours > > > before the cord is cut,then it makes no sense to astrology.But > the > > > tricky part that comes to my mind is,when does the natural > cessation > > > of pulsation happens ie the stop of oxygen supply.Some say > within 10 > > > minutes.Once that happens,cutting makes no impact. > > > > > > The point i would love to probe is - when is the baby totally > > > independent.Even after the first cry,if there is a parallel > > > supply,then the baby is not totally independent.Cutting makes > it.But > > > if one is prolonging the cut,the natural cessation time/point > > > happens in between in a silent fashion and goes unnoticed. > > > > > > If prana is anna or basic food that keeps us alive,then > independent > > > existence or birth should have a a single input. > > > > > > All these depends on the divine/technical switch designed by the > > > Lord which transfers control.As you have rightly mentioned we > need > > > to know atleast the basic physiological,functionalities with > > > authenticity,to comment further. > > > > > > Historical points that you have in mind may be shared,if it can > help > > > to further our understanding.I totally agree with your point > > > that,mere cutting of the cord at any elected time does not make > > > sense. > > > > > > Respect > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > I think in the western world these days it is becoming a > practice > > > for > > > > fathers to be present or even assist at the time of delivery of > > > the > > > > mother. So that may be the reason that the doctor asked you to > cut > > > the > > > > cord. I could not state anything about this. > > > > > > > > The practice of giving sweets and honey may be a means of > > > rewarding the > > > > midwife whose job it was in old days to help a lady deliver her > > > child. > > > > But I do not know where this custom is prevalent. As far as I > > > remember > > > > in the old days it was the custom to distribute sugar to the > > > > acquaintances when a child was born. > > > > > > > > I do not think placenta has anything to do with oxygen supply. > It > > > is > > > > filled with blood and in case of carnivores provides immediate > > > > nourishment to the dam. Of course this is not the custom in > human > > > beings > > > > and the herbivores though, if allowed to, the herbivores too > tend > > > to eat > > > > the placenta. > > > > > > > > Remember that there is no fixed time when placenta must be cut > > > from the > > > > time of birth. One could wait, till a lagna changes, for > cutting > > > of the > > > > cord and this would mean human being deciding the time of > birth of > > > an > > > > individual. This would mean the very basis on which Jyotish > > > edifice > > > > stands will become faulty and purva karma and time of birth > being > > > > decided because of that and one getting the horoscope based on > his > > > purva > > > > Karma will stand demolished. I do not think that should be the > > > case. > > > > > > > > But as I said it might be better if a gynecologist on the group > > > explains > > > > the process of human birth and explain about timing of which > > > action can > > > > be controlled by human beings and which can not be so > controlled > > > when a > > > > child is born so that this question is settled once and for > all. > > > > > > > > There are also other reasons that I do not want to go into, and > > > they > > > > relate to the manner of birth recording in the times that the > > > shastra > > > > was written, that make me believe that the first intake of > breath > > > > indicated by the cry of the baby to be the time of birth. I do > not > > > want > > > > to enter into that discussion as one can always interpret > > > historical > > > > facts in different manner and that can only lead to more > confusion. > > > > > > > > As I said this is my opinion and others may hold a different > view > > > on the > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > > > > > You may have more authentic info regarding men folks and > labour > > > room > > > > > regarding cutting of cord as compared to my knowledge got > through > > > > > reading.I was curious on why the doctor had suggested to me > to do > > > > > so,as i got a chance to be in the labour room,twice -both > normal > > > > > deliveries. > > > > > > > > > > But somewhere under ceremonies ,it is written that,before > > > cutting of > > > > > the cord,father is supposed to give some sweet ,honey. > > > > > > > > > > The parallel oxygen supply that i had mentioned was the > natural > > > one > > > > > coming through umblical cord from placenta and not an > artificial > > > > > supply.How long is a question and it varies from case to > case. > > > > > > > > > > Similar to circumstances which may interrupt or shift a > planned > > > > > ceasarian section,time of birth can be elected only if the > lord > > > > > wills,is my opinion,even with cutting of cord. > > > > > > > > > > Even though the placenta can seperate at the time of > delivery ,it > > > > > may continue to supply nutrients and oxygen. > > > > > > > > > > As you know ,my queries are only educative in nature,so that > > > > > different views regarding the topic can be > obtained,especially as > > > > > such a consideration is present in classics. > > > > > > > > > > Your expertise and experience with cattle is respected > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > -- In > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > In ancient days, men folk were not allowed into the labor > room > > > and > > > > > there > > > > > > was no question of father cutting the umbilical cord. > Umbilical > > > > > cord is > > > > > > attached to placenta and the placenta and the baby can be > away > > > > > from the > > > > > > mother even if the umbilical cord is not cut. Since the > time of > > > > > cutting > > > > > > of the cord can be elected, if that is the criteria for > birth > > > then > > > > > one > > > > > > can change the time of birth of a baby. I do not think that > > > vedic > > > > > > astrology assumes that a human being can change the time of > > > birth > > > > > of a baby. > > > > > > > > > > > > As to oxygen supply ( external) that is the case of > organized > > > > > hospitals > > > > > > but many babies are born where no such provision is there > and > > > even > > > > > in > > > > > > the hospitals the baby is held upside down its mucous > removed > > > and > > > > > it is > > > > > > made to take first breath on its own. Only if there is a > > > problem, > > > > > use of > > > > > > artificial giving of oxygen is resorted to. Even here > unless > > > the > > > > > baby is > > > > > > capable of drawing breath I doubt whether oxygen can be > forced > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > lungs. May be a medical professional would be better > placed to > > > > > comment > > > > > > on this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course this is my personal opinion and others may hold a > > > > > different > > > > > > view on the subject. I had cattle and have bred dogs and > know a > > > > > bit > > > > > > about the process of birth having assisted many of my > animals > > > even > > > > > in > > > > > > breach presentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji & Ramapriya ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the views.I see a vaild point in > chandrashekhar > > > jis > > > > > view > > > > > > > regarding death and stop of breath. > > > > > > > At the same time i do see a point with cutting of > umbilical > > > > > chord or > > > > > > > detachment from placenta,as well.As you know,umbilical > chord > > > > > connects > > > > > > > the mother and baby through placenta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus cutting of umbilical chord naturally disconnetcs > mother > > > and > > > > > > > baby.Even after delivery,cry and independent breath a > > > parallel > > > > > oxygen > > > > > > > supply is present until the link(chord) is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now breaking of sac does not stop link with mother,and > hence > > > it > > > > > > > cannot point to a birth time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a tough case and honestly,though i see a point in > your > > > > > > > explanation,total independency of the baby not being > effected > > > > > until > > > > > > > cutting of umbilical chord,is another point keeping my > > > curiousity > > > > > > > awake. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also do you know why the father is supposed to cut the > chord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respect > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sure the astrologer was referring t Phaldeepika > which > > > does > > > > > > > mention > > > > > > > > that. However, since the breaking of placenta is > > > controlled by > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > action and will, if that is accepted as the time of > birth > > > then > > > > > the > > > > > > > whole > > > > > > > > basis about a soul getting birth at a time dictated by > his > > > > > purva > > > > > > > karma > > > > > > > > may not stand the test of logic. Personally I have > always > > > held > > > > > the > > > > > > > > opinion that it is the first cry of the baby > indicative of > > > > > first > > > > > > > intake > > > > > > > > of breath and thus independent life should be > considered > > > as the > > > > > > > time of > > > > > > > > birth. My logic is that if end of breath is death then > > > first > > > > > intake > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > breath has to be life. There are other reasons for that > > > > > premise but > > > > > > > > discussing them all may not be necessary. Primarily we > must > > > > > > > remember > > > > > > > > that it is the breath that is called Prana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear respected members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was fortunate to meet an elderly village > > > astrologer,some > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > back.His opinion was ,breaking or opening of > placenta is > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > considered as the time of birth.He said he has > shlokas to > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > his view. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Later on i had favourable thoughts towards his > views.To > > > me > > > > > > > Placenta > > > > > > > > > is then acting like the shell of an egg and > protecting > > > the > > > > > > > baby.When > > > > > > > > > it is broken,external influence effects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your learned views may be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > -- In > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, " sreeram > > > srinivas " > > > > > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your question & analysis is right. But how do you > know > > > > > that a > > > > > > > > > woman has > > > > > > > > > > conceived?? It is only after observing the > menstrual > > > cycle > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > related biological mechanism. The ancient rishis > found > > > it > > > > > > > > > convenient that > > > > > > > > > > day of birth is more convincing and logical to > record > > > and > > > > > hence, > > > > > > > > > taken as > > > > > > > > > > the basis. Analysing critically, one is confused > > > whether > > > > > to take > > > > > > > > > the time > > > > > > > > > > of birth or time of doctor cutting the umbilical > cord > > > or > > > > > when > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > child is > > > > > > > > > > touched on the ground ( old customs)..etc.. As the > time > > > > > > > variation > > > > > > > > > in such > > > > > > > > > > cases is only few minutes, it is immaterial > difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our astro_classics have combinations for > > > > > best " Garbadharan " and > > > > > > > > > not much > > > > > > > > > > research or case studies available on this, for the > > > simple > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > that such > > > > > > > > > > discussions are too private or personal. Good > > > ettiquette > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > society > > > > > > > > > > norms does not allow to disclose or discuss this. > > > There is > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > amount of > > > > > > > > > > literature available on Garbadharan > > > subject....original and > > > > > > > > > > translated..........{ there are many other highly > > > qualified > > > > > > > > > members in this > > > > > > > > > > groups to advice you further !!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If one analysis the ancient scriptures including > our > > > > > mythology, > > > > > > > > > the muhurta > > > > > > > > > > of an event is given more importance than > individual > > > > > horoscope. > > > > > > > > > Every > > > > > > > > > > muhurta has a name ascribed to it and some > predictions > > > > > related > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > it ( > > > > > > > > > > without even considering the planetary positions ), > > > this > > > > > is done > > > > > > > > > based on > > > > > > > > > > the " amsa " calculations. Some of this ancient > science > > > is > > > > > lost > > > > > > > > > and very > > > > > > > > > > very few people know it, atleast to my knowledge > do not > > > > > know if > > > > > > > > > any of the > > > > > > > > > > existing astro_classics even mention it properly > i.e. > > > > > literature > > > > > > > > > on this is > > > > > > > > > > NOT available. Most of our mythologies denote or > > > reflect > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > importance of > > > > > > > > > > muhurta ( read nakshatra based muhurtas) rather > than > > > > > planetary > > > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > > muhurtas which came much much later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is said that the time/event of Lord Ravan > kidnapping > > > > > Goddess > > > > > > > > > Sita, was > > > > > > > > > > called something " Vinda " , a result of which was > > > > > destruction or > > > > > > > > > end of Lord > > > > > > > > > > Ravan. The coronation of Lord Rama as King of > Ayodhya, > > > the > > > > > > > > > muhurta was > > > > > > > > > > determined by our great brahma rishi Vasisth, ( > can he > > > > > > > > > wrong ?? ). Brood > > > > > > > > > > over this and you will get a new revelation or > > > > > understanding of > > > > > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > > > timing....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to your mental inquisitiveness, the original > > > timing > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > > > > epic war i.e. Mahabharat, was fixed, however, the > Lord > > > > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > preponed the > > > > > > > > > > timing by couple of hours, by raising the clarion > conch > > > > > > > > > call.....of war !!! > > > > > > > > > > Well in Mahabharat there are few knowledgeable > astros > > > > > including > > > > > > > > > Great > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Daring Duryodhan, Guru Dronacharya, Dhaan > Vir > > > > > Karna, > > > > > > > > > Chief > > > > > > > > > > Justice Yudishthira, Rewarded Naku & Sakadev, Lord > > > > > > > > > Krishna....etc.. If > > > > > > > > > > you read the original sanskrit translation of > > > Mahabharat { > > > > > > > surely > > > > > > > > > NOT those > > > > > > > > > > Amar Chitra kathas} there is an interesting > discussion > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > Great > > > > > > > > > > Bhishma, Guru Dronnacharya, Daring Duryodhan on the > > > issue > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > completion of > > > > > > > > > > the 12+1 years of exile of Pandavas. This > controversy > > > > > still goes > > > > > > > > > i.e. 360 > > > > > > > > > > or 365 days in an annual year....etc.. > > > > > > > > > > Coming back to Mahabharat the place and location > of the > > > > > war was > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > predetermined intelligently by Sri Lord Krishna > i.e. > > > > > Kurushetra > > > > > > > > > for certain > > > > > > > > > > genuine reasons....one of reasons being that the > SOIL > > > > > there at > > > > > > > > > Kurushetra > > > > > > > > > > favors NONE or it is NEUTRAL. There are few very > > > > > interesting > > > > > > > > > astro_cryptic > > > > > > > > > > clues here for an interested student of > > > > > astrology.......left to > > > > > > > > > each one's > > > > > > > > > > imagination to decipher the same...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Digressing from the issue for a while as we have > > > touched > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > things on > > > > > > > > > > mythology, just wanted to add few more > lines....though > > > > > learned > > > > > > > > > Brahma Rishi > > > > > > > > > > Vasisht happens to be the Kulguru or Chief adviser > of > > > Lord > > > > > Ram's > > > > > > > > > family, but > > > > > > > > > > he choose Brahma Rishi Vishwamitra to train Lord > Ram & > > > > > brothers > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the field > > > > > > > > > > of Weapons i.e. missiles or art of war........and > > > > > > > technique...... > > > > > > > > > { read > > > > > > > > > > between the lines - the original translations - > great > > > > > > > > > astro_message is > > > > > > > > > > involved here } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of the finest translations are available in > > > telugu, > > > > > but due > > > > > > > > > to modern > > > > > > > > > > education stress in English or Hinglish, tracing > those > > > good > > > > > > > books > > > > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > > > > daunting task for it is written in poetry form in > > > Telugu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with regards, > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > sreeram64@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > > [ > <%40> > > > <%40> > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > <%40>] On > Behalf Of > > > > > GYATHRI > > > > > > > > > PATANJOTHI > > > > > > > > > > Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:57 PM > > > > > > > > > > jyotish remedies > > > > > > > > > > calculation of T.O.B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Astrologers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been thinking about our time fo birth which > is > > > an > > > > > > > essential > > > > > > > > > element > > > > > > > > > > in our astrological chart, but is it wrong for me > to > > > > > believe > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > there is a > > > > > > > > > > more accurate time, we should be looking into, > because > > > > > life was > > > > > > > > > given once > > > > > > > > > > our mom conceive so is it wrong for me to believe > that > > > the > > > > > time > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > conceived could be the time that we should all be > > > looking > > > > > into. > > > > > > > > > > For example, if i am born on the 25th Nov so i > might be > > > > > > > conceived > > > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > > month of Feb assuming it is an exact 9 months > delivery > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > premature. > > > > > > > > > > According to other sources too, that babies in the > womb > > > > > would > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > first hearbeat after 4 months. > > > > > > > > > > Since life starts in the mothers womb we have been > > > living > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > before we > > > > > > > > > > step into the tangible world.Hence I really need > some > > > > > > > > > clarification of a > > > > > > > > > > valid justification of calculating our lifechart > based > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > of birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Gyathri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? > <http://geo./serv?> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>> > > > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>> > > > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>> > > > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>> > > > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?> > <http://geo./serv? <http://geo./serv?>>>>> > > > > > > > > > s=97359714/grpId=9699862/grpspId=1705082690/msgId > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =39690/stime=1171783748/nc1=3848641/nc2=3848567/nc3=3848581> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------- > ---- > > > - > > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 - > Release > > > > > Date: > > > > > > > 2/21/2007 3:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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