[hc] Fwd: Achievements of our Vedic-Hindu sage scientists

[Guest guest]

HinduCalendar , " harimalla " <harimalla

wrote:

 

Dear Mr. Kaul,

Namaskar!

I fully agree with your interpretation of the scriptures and the way

the fortune tellers are taking the religious people for a ride.They

are more worried about their income than the accuracy of our

religious festivals.They do not understand the logic inside their

own shastras,if it can be called that.Thus the calender reform is

their nightmare thinking it will damage their business.

It is my firm belief that due to the wrong timings of our religious

festivals the Hindus are more hypocritical.If we set our festivals

right then we shall be the most enlightened people on earth. Now a

days we can only talk high but can not accomplish in practice.This

is due to the wrong alignment of time. After correct festivals we

shall be 'siddhas' even with a little effort.Our resolutions will be

fulfilled. We shall be more moral than what we are at present.In

fact, the story of Dhruba is a proof that we shall be so.Mother of

Dhruba is Su-niti, meaning 'good policy or ethics'.Thus to improve

our ethical standard we must align ourselves to Dhruba or the pole

star.After improving our ethics, our prosperity and peace is also

guraranteed. The position of this pole star is the cause of our

uttarayan and dakhinayan.

Let me tell you that at present, we in Nepal, celebrate two

uttarayan- one at Makar sankranti plus Poush purnima and the other

at Mangsir purnima.These two dates are one month apart, the mean

value of mangsir purnima being at Dhanu sankranti.Thus we have

decided to correct them so that we have one uttarayan by shifting

all festivals by one month backwards. We want that our Indian

friends also support us. I hope I now have a good friend in you, Mr.

Avatar Kishen Kaul.But I do want to hear if you suport our method or

not.Please give your comments, now that I have written about our

method in detail.Our goal is not to disturb the current shastras

both jyotish and dharma shastra.If we can reform by keeping our

shastras intact as it is, that must be the best method as it would

be easy to convince the people.Thus the rashis and the niryan method

can remain nearly for another two thousand years as it has been

doing so for the pasta nearly two thousand years.We only shift the

nirayan solstices and equinoxes as it was quoted by Baraha mihir in

the sixth century.He has quoted Makar sankranti and Karkat sankranti

as the solstices of his time.But now they have shifted near to Dhanu

sankranti and Mithun sankranti and we can shift accordingly.But

since our system is soli-lunar by coordinating the sun and the

moon,it should be done in a coordinated manner, the full moon

regions getting the first priority and the sankranti following

them.Thus coordinating the three sankrantis, as it were,namely the

solar , lunar and the sayan sankrantis we would have revived the

festivals to their original effective status.Hoping to get your

support, I remain,

Sincerely yours,

Hari N. Malla

 

Original message:

HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved@>

wrote:

>

> hinducivilization , " Ravi " <ravi7640@> wrote:

>

> Thanks Avatarji. Very clearly stated and confusion is removed. I

have

> seen

> Farmers almanac in USA which obviously is based on the season and

the

> planting of crops etc. Was or is there any such almanacs in India?

>

> As a layman I agree with you that upon observation of the equal

day

> and

> night, the shortest day and shortest night one could work out the

> calendar.

> As far as the calendar reforms are concerned your efforts are

> laudable.

>

> However your shadow fight against " vedic astrologers " might not

get

> as much

> appreciation or support from Hindus since the belief in astrology

is

> entrenched within us and it would take a 'Bageeratha' to change

that.

> The

> reason is as some members had explained many times, many of us

after

> having

> consulted astrologers have received correct predictions

(regardless

> of what

> the methods they follow) and we hence cannot find fault with the

> system. Of

> course you attribute such prowess to inherent human ability

> for 'soothe

> saying' etc. However to a common man like me it is very difficult

to

> completely denounce astrology. It is not the Hindus alone who

consult

> astrologers but I have seen many, many Muslims, Christians do so,

> thus

> taking away the Hindu aspect from it.

> Ravi

>

> -

> " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved@>

> <hinducivilization >

> Sunday, January 18, 2009 10:17 PM

> [hc] Fwd: Re: Achievements of our Vedic-Hindu sage

scientists

>

>

> > Shri Raviji,

> > Namaste!

> > <How do we deal with the vagary of monsoon which can occur from

mid

> > May to mid June? Weather departments records speak so. Does our

> > tradition has a fixed or shifting " rainy season " ?>

> >

> > Seasons (Ritus) have been discussed in the earliest Hindu

scripture

> > viz. the Rigveda's Purusha Sukta. It has said, " yat poorushena

> > havisha deva yajnyam atanvatai, vasanto asyaseed ajyam, greeshma

> > idmah sharad havih... " i.e. " When, with Man as their offering,

The

> > Gods performed the sacrifice, Spring was the oil (ghee)of

sacrifice,

> > Summer its fuel and Autumn its gift (offering) " .

> > We also find references to all the six seasons in the Yajurveda--

-

> > Madhushcha madhavaschai vasantikav ritu... clubbing two months to

> > each season and thus making twelve months equal to six seasons.

> >

> > The Vedanga Jyotisha is very clear that from the day of

Uttarayana,

> > days go on increasing. It is also evident from all the Vedic

> > literature that the four cardinal points viz. the two Solstices

and

> > two Equinoxes, which were known as Uttarayana, Dakshinayana,

Vasanta

> > Sampat and Hemanta Sampat respectively were given very high

> > importance. At several places, a Samvatsara has been

personified as

> > the yajnya and then Prajapatih and all the seasons have been

> declared

> > as its limbs.

> >

> > Shishira Ritu is supposed to start from Winter Solstice i.e.

> > Uttarayana and it is no exaggeration to say that it could be

really

> > the coldest day geographically because it is the shortest day of

the

> > year, with the result that sunlight remains available for the

> > shortest interval of time on that date in northern regions, even

if

> > it makes no difference to anhybody living in Mumbai since maybe

he

> > will be using fans or even AC on that date because of the

particular

> > advantage or disadvantage of his/her location! But Uttarayana

is

> the

> > shortest day of the year and if the Vedic seers made it start of

the

> > Shishira Ritu, hats off to them!

> > Similarly, Summer Solstice is the start of Varsha Ritu. It is so

> > because after the sunlight was available for the longest

duration of

> > the year on the day of Dakshinayana, the atmospheric

temperatures

> are

> > supposed to be the maximum during that day! (However, pl. donot

> jump

> > at my throat if it is not so these days because of pollution etc.

> > etc. etc.)

> > Thus it could very well be the onset of rains since after maximum

> > heat, rains are the usual expectations!

> >

> > Vasanta sampat i.e. Vernal Equinox is the second month of Vasanta

> > Ritu because it is neither very cold nor hot then! Similarly,

> Autumn

> > Equinox is the middle of Hemanta--with a similar phenomenon

> repeating

> > itself.

> >

> > Seasons are aligned to seasonal years and nakshatras have

absolutely

> > nothing to do with them! What has happened is that because of

> > precession of Equinoxes one or the other cardinal point has been

in

> > one or the other nakshatra in the past, like Winter Solstice

being

> in

> > Dhanishtha at the time of the VJ and so on. That is why it could

be

> > said that Winter and Dhanishtha New Moon are one and the same

thing,

> > but that is a thing of the past since the Uttarayana no longer

falls

> > in that nakshatra now actually and Shishira Ritu has therefore

> > nothing to do with Dhanishtha nakshatra nowadays.

> > It is only " Vedic astrologers " who are making the confusion worst

> > confounded!

> > With regards,

> > Avtar

> >

> >

> > hinducivilization , " Ravi " <ravi7640@>

wrote:

> >>

> >> Khandavalliji

> >> You mentioned " If Jyestha raising diametrically opposite to

> > Mrigasira does not mark the beginning of rainy season anymore,

then

> > the " festival " is not when that astronomical event occurs - it is

> > when rainy season begins. You change the name of festival or

> complain

> > that it is celebrated on a wrong day, the criterion for

wrong/right

> > itself is different "

> >> How do we deal with the vagary of monsoon which can occur from

mid

> > May to mid June? Weather departments records speak so. Does our

> > tradition has a fixed or shifting " rainy season " ?

> >> Ravi

> >> -

> >> ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli

> >> hinducivilization

> >> Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:27 AM

> >> Re: [hc] Fwd: Re: Achievements of our Vedic-Hindu

sage

> > scientists

> >>

> >>

> >> Pranam Sri A K Kaul ji,

> >>

> >> " I was just wondering as to why you have not interjected yet!

> >> Anyway, I did not have to wait for long! "

> >>

> >> Well, how would I disappoint you, after all!

> >>

> >> " Your comments, " But at the same time, Jan 14 which of course

> > should

> >> not be called Uttarayana, serves useful purpose in terms of

> > harvests

> >> in India. In Bihar, even marriage negotiations do not start

> > before

> >> this day because in olden days, people were busy with harvests

> > which

> >> was their mainstay. As such, they should have devoted all

their

> > time

> >> for this. Secondly, in Patna, the bitter cold , relatively

> > speaking,

> >> loses its punch. " are really a proof of the fact that you

have no

> >> idea as to what you are talking about!

> >> "

> >>

> >> 1. You did not quote me. You quoted is what Sri Anand Sharan

> > said. My statement was that it is called big festival in AP for

the

> > correct reason.

> >>

> >> 2. My statement is clear, and whether I have an idea or not,

any

> > reader can get a clear idea of what I am talking about.

> >>

> >> What I have been saying and you have just ignored, is that

> > Sankranti etc are farmer's festivals and not astronomer's

festivals.

> > Pitru tarpana is not a celebration, it is not a festival.

Sankranti

> > is called the big festival for the PRIMARY reason that it is the

> time

> > of harvest.

> >>

> >> That a festival falls on a certain tithi, matches certain

> > astronomical phenomenon, is a known concept. And when all those

do

> > not match for some reason, what prevails is the reason for

> > celebration and not the astronomical phenomenon. The latter is

> simply

> > not relevant in that case.

> >>

> >> If Jyestha raising diametrically opposite to Mrigasira does

not

> > mark the beginning of rainy season anymore, then the " festival "

is

> > not when that astronomical event occurs - it is when rainy season

> > begins. You change the name of festival or complain that it is

> > celebrated on a wrong day, the criterion for wrong/right itself

is

> > different.

> >>

> >> Time or action will not have to change if the watch goes

wrong!

> > What matters is the event of our life, not your astronomy! Your

> > argument is anti-teleological.

> >>

> >> " Do you know that if we go by the same Lahiriwalas' criterion

> > that

> >> every seventy-two years, the Pongal-cum-Makar Sankranti has

been

> >> advanced by one day in the past, it was then being celebrated

on

> > the

> >> exact day of Uttarayana-- -the Winter Solstice--in 285 AD as

per

> > all

> >> the Lahiriwalas themselves! What type of harvest time is that

> > even

> >> for Patna? "

> >>

> >> Was there any " Lahiriwala " in 285 AD? Did the harvest festival

> > get celebrated with Winter Solstice at that time? What kind of

> > argument is this?

> >>

> >> I have mentioned very clearly, that astronomical-seasonal

cycle-

> > festival-tithi is not a constant quadruple and has to be

readjusted.

> >>

> >> " And a couple of thousand years hence, say in 4000 AD, Lahiri

> > Pongal-

> >> cum-Makar Sankranti will be celebrated by about Febrtuary 15,

> > instead

> >> of January 15! What harvest time will it be then ? "

> >>

> >> Oh! Please do not worry, because the harvest will mark

whatever

> > date at that time, there would have been a dozen adjustments to

> > calendar by that time. It all depends whether people follow

> > astronomers or astronomers follow the events of people's lives.

For

> > now, let us understand that Sankranti, the big festival is going

on

> > right.

> >>

> >> What is going on wrong is Pitru tarpana, where I agree with

you.

> > Let us not mix things. Where it is right, it is right. Where it

is

> > wrong, it is wrong.

> >>

> >> Though not really called for, let me sincerely suggest to you

> > what I feel. If you had not gone guns against the entire

calendar

> and

> > jyotisha, and just stuck to where it really needed correction,

you

> > would probably have got a much better response and support, not

just

> > from this group but outside too.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> -------------------------------

---

> -

> > ----------

> >> Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@>

> >> hinducivilization

> >> Saturday, January 17, 2009 12:49:38 AM

> >> [hc] Fwd: Re: Achievements of our Vedic-Hindu sage

> > scientists

> >>

> >>

> >> Shri Shankara Bharadwaj Khandavalliji,

> >> Namaskar!

> >> I was just wondering as to why you have not interjected yet!

> >> Anyway, I did not have to wait for long!

> >> As usual, you are contradicting the contents of this post also

> > just

> >> for the sake of registering your presence, without doing any

> > homework!

> >>

> >> Your comments, " But at the same time, Jan 14 which of course

> > should

> >> not be called Uttarayana, serves useful purpose in terms of

> > harvests

> >> in India. In Bihar, even marriage negotiations do not start

> > before

> >> this day because in olden days, people were busy with harvests

> > which

> >> was their mainstay. As such, they should have devoted all

their

> > time

> >> for this. Secondly, in Patna, the bitter cold , relatively

> > speaking,

> >> loses its punch. " are really a proof of the fact that you

have no

> >> idea as to what you are talking about!

> >> Do you know that if we go by the same Lahiriwalas' criterion

that

> >> every seventy-two years, the Pongal-cum-Makar Sankranti has

been

> >> advanced by one day in the past, it was then being celebrated

on

> > the

> >> exact day of Uttarayana-- -the Winter Solstice--in 285 AD as

per

> > all

> >> the Lahiriwalas themselves! What type of harvest time is that

> > even

> >> for Patna?

> >>

> >> And a couple of thousand years hence, say in 4000 AD, Lahiri

> > Pongal-

> >> cum-Makar Sankranti will be celebrated by about Febrtuary 15,

> > instead

> >> of January 15! What harvest time will it be then ?

> >> If at all you have to celebrate a " harvesting festival " in

mid-

> >> January, for God's sake do not name it " Makar Sankranti " .

since

> >> Makar Sankranti connotes a religious function more than

anything

> > else

> >> and the Pauranic Makar Sankranti has to coincide with nothing

but

> >> Uttarayana! Just give it any other name, as is being done by

Shri

> >> Karuna Nidhi! He has started a New Tamil Year in mid January,

but

> >> does not want to correlate it to any religion, nor any

jyotisha,

> > for

> >> that matter.

> >> Then again, it is not only Pongal-cum-Makar Sankranti that is

> > being

> >> celebrated on worng days but all the other Sankrantis

including

> > the

> >> Vishuva-cum- Meshadi-cum Mesha Sankrnati etc. is also being

> > celebrated

> >> on wrong days! For instance, there is no festival on July 15

the

> >> Lahiri Karka Sankranti whereas the Pauranic Karkata Sankranti

> > does

> >> coincide with the day of Dakshinayana!

> >> Similarly, all the muhurtas also are being made to spin on

their

> >> heads by " Vedic astrologers " .

> >> With regards,

> >> A K Kaul

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> > ---

> >

> > Dharmo rakshati rakshitah