[hc] Fwd: Achievements of our Vedic-Hindu sage scientists

[Guest guest]

hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

 

Dear Raviji,

Namaskar!

Many thanks for your views regarding use of pejoratives

like " Christian stooge " etc. by some members.

 

Personally, I am more amused than annoyed by such comments since as

and when any new or old member enters into a discussion with me, the

first thing I request him/her is to go through the vaious papers like

Koshur6., Rashi5, 199b., BVB6 etc. documents in the files section so

that we can " compaer notes " later. I also assure every member time

and again that I have an open mind and have never considered myself

omniscient. As such, I am prepared to change my views if they are

proved wrong.

Talking of being a Christian stooge, it is evident that this

gentleman has not read Koshur6.doc at all, that is in the files

section. I quote the relevant passage, for his information, below,

 

" First of all my credentials:

Though I am not laying any claims to being a " Rishi " , however, I have

personally studied all the four Vedas in original " archaic " Sanskrit

with their different " Bhashyas " , besides the various Brahmanas like

Shatapatha, Aitreya, Tatiriya etc. etc. – again, with their Bhashyas!

I have studied, (in original Sanskrit!) about two hundred all the

important and " not so important " Upanishads as well! I have also gone

through both the epics viz. the Valmiki Ramayana and the Mahabharata -

-- in chaste Sanskrit and from cover to cover besides Adhyatma

Ramayana, Ramacharitamanasa etc. etc.! There is hardly any Purana

including the Bhagavata, Shivapurana, Vishnu, Narada, Devi, Varaha,

Matsya and Vishnudharmotara etc. etc. that I have not gone through in

original Sanskrit! Besides, I am neither an " imported " nor a self-

styled but a real Kashmiri Pandit -- a Saraswat Brahmin, born in the

line of those very Rishis who practiced penance on the banks of the

Saraswati thousands of years back. Vedic Richas are therefore in my

genes! I do not have any honorific titles like " Sastri " but I

possess actually a hard earned certificate of having cleared Shastri

examination (Honours in Sanskrti) from Kashmir University --- though

I do not wear it around my neck! I have also studied exhaustively all

the ancient astronomical works like the Vedanga Jyotisha, Surya

Sidhanta, Panchasidhantika, etc. etc. I was not a born renegade

against the established traditions. On the other hand, I was

initially " hypnotized " by " Vedic astrology " and " nirayana panchangas "

myself and there is hardly any " text-book " of astrology either in

Sanskrit or Urdu or English or Hindi that I have not studied with due

reverence, as if I was studying the Vedas! However, later I woke to

the real situation, thanks to my good past karma. Fortunately, my

parents have named me as a namesake of " Krishen " ---so that people

repeat His name even unwittingly (like Ajamil of the Bhagavata!) ---

though I never claim that I am His Incarnation! Thus my credentials

are impeccable in all respects!

** *** *** *** *** *** **

Similarly, all the questions have been answered through various files

already! Any new questions that are being raised by any member, are

definitely answered, provided that they are techinical or scriptural,

as otherwise, it is just a wastage of time to assess as to why a

particular " prediction " proved correct or wrong and so on.

 

There is just a very limited number of questions I would like to ask

this gentleman:

 

1. If he finds the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Grahalaghava etc.

correct astronomical works, why do " Vedic jyotishis " of twenty-first

century use only that software for preparing their janmapatris or

even panchangas etc. that has been prepared from the algorithms of

JPL/NASA---of course only after " ayanamsha tonssure " ? Why not prepare

horscopes etc. from ancient " indigenous " (sic!)astronomical works?

 

2. If " Vedic astrology " is really Vedic, why can't they quote even a

single mantra from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the

Yajur Jyotisha or the Atharva Jyotisha etc. that talks of Mesha,

Vrisha etc. rashis in that order,or any order, for that matter? It

would be much better though, if they could also name the astronomical

work that the real Vamadevas used for calculating their janma-patris.

 

3. If some people can calculate eclipses from " cowris " why do they

not present their papers to NASA/JPL or even to GOI and get them

patented? Indian public will be profusely thankful to that gentleman

for such a conribution and I will be the first one to say good-bye to

my NASA/JPL based software for calculating lunar/solar eclipses and

start using " cowris " .

 

4. Regarding the knowledge of precession by indigenous astronomers

like Aryabhata or even Bhaskara-II, the most ironical part of the

contention of all these " scholars " (and even some of

the " scientists " !) is that none of them have studied any of the

sidhantas themselves as otherwise they would not be making such a

fool of themselves and putting that very foolishness on public

display, by claiming that Aryabhata or Bhaskara-I etc. knew and used

precession! As a matter of fact, these " Vedic jyotishis " (and even

some " scientists " !)have been groping in darkness for correct " beeja

correction " which they call now a days ayanamsha, over the last two

millenia and will continue that elusive search till the doomsday and

even then, it will be " krenji poni sarun " a Kashmir saying which

means " carrying water in a wicker basket " ---which only fools try to

do!

As such, let them study the Surya Sidhanta, shishyadhi-vridhida,

Laghumanasa or even Sidhanta-Shiromani or Grahalaghava themsleves

first and only then they will be able to understand as to what I mean

when I say, " Ganesha Daivajnya's Grahalaghava (sixteenth century AD)--

the most monstrous astronomical work " .

 

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

 

hinducivilization , " Ravi " <ravi7640@> wrote:

>

> Mr. Nambiar

> Request you should kindly

> a.. Cut out unnecessary pejoratives like 'Christian

stooge''shameless man'and many others

> b.. short hand words like B4,'u' 'blv' and many such SMS/Chat

words. It looks funny in this group. If we are to give serious

attention to you then kindly do take time to frame your sentenses

properly and do not take recourse to abbreviations.

> c.. suggest frame your questions in a way we all can understand

rather than foaming in the mouth and writing words which are full of

sound and fury but bereft of any sense.

> Absolutely no offence meant but once again request introspection of

how you debate a point. Throwing mud at some one instead of answering

is not debating. What are the points Kaul did not reply you, which

statement Kaul made sounds incorrect? and what is your counter

arguments with sources clearly mentioned would give a chance to your

readers to assess your POV. Else it will be ignored as nothing but

sound and fury.

> Moderator

> -

> sreedhar.nambiar

> hinducivilization

> Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:42 AM

> [hc] Fwd: Re: Achievements of our Vedic-Hindu sage

scientists

>

>

>

>

> dear grp and moderaters

>

> This christian stooge is continuasly distorting facts and

perverts every thing in the name of some calander and take it as an

opportunity to say hindu seers dont know any thing and name calling

them which is open challenge in disguise to all hindu community i

blv .And no where he prooved anything other than selectiv replies

with same content ,where as he never ever goes to depth of the

subjuct .

>

>

>

> the burden of proof is on him than presenting every thing as

personal opinions ( pls read his messges here ) even the paradoxes in

messges the 16th century text influenced by surya sidhantha which is

published may 19 centuries b4 and a long gap in between happened (

according his estimate as he puts cut of date as alexanders invasion

of india as every thing for indian history ,still no one influenced

astrologers as regrds procession all this 19 centuries ( do any one

can see anything here or he is taking all hindu s and hindu grps for

a ride ??)

>

> _______________

>

> 1)As clarified in my posts to Dr.Sharan, my personal view is that

all

> the sidhantas were talking of a tropical (seasonal) solar year

>

> 2)Ganesha Daivajnya,Grahalaghava (sixteenth century AD)-- got

hoodwinked by the patent lie of Maya the

> mlechha that he had obtained all the planetary knowledge directly

> from Surya Bhagwan without any intermediaries,

>

> =========================================

>

>

>

> Next is passing opinions again at the rate of improving hindus so

that they will celebrate or celebate

>

> see this ---Ganesha Daivajnya's Grahalaghava (sixteenth century

AD)--the most

> monstrous astronomical work,

>

> for him all hindu astrological or astronomical text is monstrous

and dangerous or got it frm greeks or got it frm other foriegn

sources and what is this agenda did any one can guess it ( even after

posting lot messges refuting him claims or he never giv one line as

proof for his claims--he never stand corrected )

>

> 1) i asked him to present one greek text then he changed to

babylonains and chaldeans again no proof even in history or

archeology or even in cuneiforms

>

> 2) i asked him to supprt his claims by popular blf of ppl of

those countries as without a supprting blf like punarjanma or

contuation of births and papa punyas this astrology will never work

in ppl as they dont feel the need to supprt it as a community than

some stray incidents which can only a adopted system can do it .

>

> for exmple arbs tried their hand in hindu astrology but later

silenced by extermists in their religion .

>

> now coming to surya sidhantha and varaha mihira --varahamihira

never said all sidhanthas shud b gulped down as simple devine works

and it is un questionable --where as he said 2 sidhanthas ( paoulisa

and vasishta gone wrong because without timely updates and revisions

by scholars frm time to time and other 2 sidhanthas like brahma (

remebr here this also can b eqauted as lord brahma has given this

knowledge ,so it can never b wrong --if so how he said it is working

at times and why he dont take it as a devine one and without any

change ???) and romaka sidhantha working at some ways but i advocate

surya sidhantha as best .Again he said every one shud make it more

correct depending on kala progresses .And we can see that many beeja

corrections methods used by many astrologers and astronomers .So

kaul even either knowing all this or out of his ignorence repeating

all this bashing and hidden aim is to inject inferiority complex

among hindus ( same agenda carried out by maxmuller ( who got lacs of

rs frm british east india company as sponsor ship and he was a

christin preist )and Macauley .Other wise can any one illuminate me

what is all this distortion and misintrpretation of facts ,and he is

continuing it for last 25 yrs and without going to famous scholars or

dharmacharyas or even take to ppl in street and make them understand

than prick and run tactics .

>

>

>

> now last week when he was surrounded by many ppl he strted

answering only to selected guys or strted cross posting some

sycophant mails frm some ignorent memebrs of other grps so as to

divert attention

>

> And he never ever answered any questions of many memebrs who

systematicaly silenced by his croneys in grps of his own, where as

after inviting and humiliating banned all of them .I agree u can ban

any memebr for misbehaving but why dont he also not answer the

questions raised by them .so what for this ban ?? it was for

convenience

>

> i asked him some questions

>

> 1) His idea of vedic astronomy ,its antiquity .how they

calculated thithies ,nakshtras and panchangas .

>

> 2) atleast quote one shloka of varhamihhira or first

mangalacharana one and its sanskrit translation what he understood

frm it

>

>

>

> 3) His knowldge abt surya sidhantha and his calculation of yrs

according to it .i expect the quote ,translation according to him and

the calculation of yrs according to his understanding

>

> what it says abt time -the kala

>

> kalantmaka kala ,akalanamtaka kala ,moortha kala ,amoortha kala

etc,why he giv all this variations ??

>

> what is purpose

>

> Now tell me did u or any of ur croneys made any neo sidhanthas

which can help others to calculate some planetary positions fool

proof for any givn momnt of time other than depending on NASA /JPL

data ,so what make u gr8 to commnt on all those sidhanthas which

helpd humans for more than 3 or 4 thousand yrs to calculate graha

sphootas .Why this agenda even if all those sidhanthas r wrong ,even

u cannot make a calender without depending on SW then what make u say

and propoagte all bad things abt hindu astrologers and astronomers ?

If it was wrong then all rishies were wrong already and why we need

to celebrate ( as that is ur claim ) on some days specified by u on

some festivals which is not even mentioned in vedas ?

>

> 4)then u never ever explain why tapah,tapas is coldest month s

and according to it 's meaning if it is seasonal why not it shows

it ,then why ur claims on seasonal festivals we shud adopt

>

> 5) why vedas said abt muhurthas to start any thing good

according to it and ur knowledge abt it .how others can use it ? if

there is no good or bad abt muhurthas then why we shud use it ( good

and bad means some thing can b bad in coming days if we observ in bad

period or muhurtha right ??hence has predictiv value .

>

> even u failed in ur life abt predictiing any thing astrologicaly

( for exmple u only said abt indira gandhi 's death ) then the

blame is on vedic astrology or is it ur incompetence ??

>

> i am not asking u a shameless man for an astro debate ,many has

posted many charts which already appeared in other astro forums for u

to refute it astrologicaly ( means astro dictums are not working on

it ) but u never has guts to touch it as it is easy to attack by

sitting in fence than entering in areana and fails .

>

> but i request memebrs and moderaters after all if this is a hindu

forum either ask him to proov all this b4 he cross posts or try to

answer and repeat same lies 100000 times

>

>

>

> (dear grp u may feel this is some thing unclear because lot of

past instances happened in various grps ( and i cannot reproduce

here ) and when situation is not favrble kaul always runs and come

back after some time and pls think who has all the time in world to

follow him on which grp he is activ ? And i blv this grp has some

standard and good persons as members ,and we all use this net to

socialise or to increase our knowldge or for our hobbies than

attacking )

>

> all the questions placed by me is litmus tests and i dont want to

bore the grp with lenghty technical discussions ,if he touch it u can

see that how i will catch him and trash him .then i will make him

construct his calender and u all can test it ?? let us see how he

will make a calendar without any adjust ments and flawless ( who

calls all rishies and seers as frauds and date every one according

xian eurocentric theorys ( he will place them all in AD era ) to look

like we hindus stole all knowledge frm europe and he has gone to the

extent that vedic rishies were having the the concept of earth was

flat .such a person want us to celebrate festivals on correct

days .) .which r his thithies and days and month s he will follow ?

how he will diffrnciate each divisions etc .if u hav brains u can

think too

>

>

>

> regrds sreedhar nambiar

>

>

>

>

>

> for spl attention of Mr .kaul

>

> ================

>

>

>

> pls dont ask me any questions --i request to u to answer me some

questions ( i think this is my 100th reminder to u )also i did not

propose any new theory plus i got lot of personal commitments ,and

no one is sponsoring me or i am not getting missionary funds ,so as

to type 100 mails to attack every one or gate crash in every forum

without inviting .or to creep into any discussions uncalled .

>

> even attacking neo students in personal ids like a virus

>

>

>

> also pls remind ur science fraud frnd to answer me in this

grp ?? i invited him here and i thought some one can b appointed as a

moderater of my discussions with that fraud to decide than unilateral

declarations of u and him behind the back .but last 10 days he dont

seems to b prepared yet .other than sitting in his own dark room grp .

>

> (Other fools called hindus may blv u seeing ur hindu name and

brahmin title -all r lamenting and writes big big mails on how

hindus r targetted and other secret agendas by church and other

semitic religions ,but i can understnd u .who u realy are .)

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---