Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 , " Inder Jit Sahni " <inder_jit_sahni wrote: What exactly astrology is all about; To relate your surroundings changes within the Nature which can be calculated Mathematically with the Life sciences.? So it is basically a Time science. Very hard rules are prescribed by our masters for the persons who practice Astrology or for those too who want to consult an astrologer. To whom one shall teach is also mentioned. When one need to consult an astrologer , it is his Karmic activity which brought to him to an astrologer. Think , how many forces act at that time? And when he consult an astrologer , the Divine Grace , the Karmas negative or positive and the Strong will of the Astrologer , indirectly of the Supreme Lord help trace the things to the astrologer and consultant and the person if destined is to be helped , will be helped or will be facing a cheater who will wash few of the sins of the consultant and will add to his own negative Karmas. So can you compare an internet reading with a real Astrological Experience. Not at All. In fact the Internet Astrology or what is written in Books or Magazines are the graves of the actual cases dealt by the Astrologers that too with half information provided which is in fact available to the Astrologer at the time of consultation. Or those are the cases of Famous persons who never consulted an astrologer but the Astrologer wanted to ride a chart for his own interests. These are posted by those who sell themselves for fame or money . Then there are others who run from this group to another to find the answer of different astrologers, these are beggars moving under the Mask of need and are answered by such astrologers either out of proud or innocence. These persons do not match the minimum requirements and norms that how to pose a question to an astrologer. Money is not always a consideration , but a person must take other pains to help himself that his questions is addressed properly. Never ask in a group; never answer in a group to the personal issues of others; a learned astrologer shall never answer to the consultants in group. A student of Astrology may try this by private answering to the persons asking in the group . The persons whose sub lords are Moon or Mercury stars will never have faith on any astrologer and will move from this group to another . Do not believe in one minute astrology, any astrologer to check some combination may ask some questions but this is in real astrology, nothing can change your destiny, forget that purchasing Shoes or buying something else will brought good luck or bad luck. Instead these are tricks to find if the particular planet had acted or not. I had seen these in abundance but who failed miserably in predicting future. An astrologer now NO more from Jodhpur will give you your Date of Birth and time but everything else he predicted go wrong , he did not give this even to his son. When an Astrologer Predict to a Consultant , the acting forces I had explained above. But what when a Student wish to know ? His 9th house operates, 9this Destiny and 9th is Dharma. Destny is expenditure of Karmas it is expenditure of 10th house but Dharma is independent identity an identity which shows the holding nature of the individual, it is again through the Guru , which is again an independent identity, the 10th for Dharma and Guru are your collection of deeds, see how beautifully the 9th and 10th are Collection and expenditure to each other the 9th give strength through Satwoguna to the Rajoguni Lagna . He will be addressed as per his own intentions , one's own submission to the almighty will produce a teacher for him. According to his 9th house. So here it is only a learning experience and it is not the same as was the case when the person actually consulted an Astrologer. If he cannot gain , it is his own fault not of others , all teachers are evolution of the Almighty, he who understands it never frustrate, because frustration is , that you don't believe in almighty the Supreme Lord. Also being an Astrologer if one cannot differentiate with the time of consultation and time of learning then he is a great Idiot in the science of Astrology and such person shall not be answered by a wise man. I will narrate two cases for the students of Astrology out of answered on 23.11.2008 . A woman of 65 years of Age consulting at 30.12.N 75.00.E appeared before me with no birth chart at 11.26 AM . She said that she was recommended by name by a villager around 50 KMs from here who got a son on the Date as was predicted by me. I asked her a no. from 1 to 249 and she gave me 65 No. The Saturn Antardasha was running in Moon Mahadsha. As per No. chart Jupiter was exact in 7th Cusp, Rahu too had shifted in Cusp chart in 7th . For Vedic Astrologers shift the Lagna to 26.33 degrees Gemini Now look as the qualification of the woman as an consultant, she had taken pains to travel through Busses for 40 Kms and then around 10 Km's through Rikshas , and is eager to pay the consultation charges, in such a situation , even if one do not pay and had come for rescue the Astrologer must answer .. She did not tell me anything except that she is much in grief. Looking at Saturn in Venus star I 1st confirmed that you bought a Buffalo from August 2007 to October 2007. And this Buffalo was in trouble or can be loss after 21 September. Now see , Can I ask this question to my Consultant at Delhi or Bombay? No not at all. She confirmed that she purchased one which was worth 70 thousand and it died in October. Rahu in the 7h Cusp and 1st Saturn in Venus star and Venus in 6th Cusp. How many things could be said now ? Look at my narration. The house is progressing well since Moon Mahadasha ; Jupiter Venus in 4rth from Moon other three malefic in 3rd from Moon. But she is not happy mentally because of the respect and care she expects from her husband and Sons. Husband had a rise in Sun Mahadasha , may be in politics , but from Moon Dasha only moving in proud of previous success wasting his time with others and not caring about her and even beat her and had done so in Rahu antra. She confirmed that her husband was elected Village Sarpanch/Headman and remained So for Sun Mahadsha upto 2003, and other things I told too are correct. Sun in 11th from 7th and Jupiter in own house close to 7th cusp shows her husband selfish behave, Its being in Sun Star and Sun in 5th Cusp shows Political success. IIt also speaks so many other things which after hearing and after knowing the solution she returned back blessing. 2nd Case I am giving for others to calculate. This was a couple at 11.55 AM on 23.11.2008 at the same place. The Huband gave me his horoscope Date 26.11.1960 time 19.58 Hours IST at Jaito 30.28.N 74.53.E To confirm time I only matched the personality with Sub lord Sun in Saturn Star occupant of 5th Cusp. That he is a man of Ego , but introvert lazy , doing something technical but had a revenue income or a workshop, all linking to 8th house. He confirmed that he is a owner of City Cable network and thus earn through its revenue . Everything else was told by me and confirmed by him. I am posting this case , what will you say to the consultant at this time. With Best Wishes, Inder Jit Sahni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Shri Prashanth Nairji, Namaskar! < Very hard rules are prescribed by our masters for the persons who practice Astrology or for those too who want to consult an astrologer...... In fact the Internet Astrology or what is written in Books or Magazines are the graves of the actual cases dealt by the Astrologers that too with half information provided which is in fact available to the Astrologer at the time of consultation. Or those are the cases of Famous persons who never consulted an astrologer but the Astrologer wanted to ride a chart for his own interests....> Judging from the criteria that Inder Jit Sahni (IMHO the actual word should be " Inderjit " but then maybe some numerologist as advised Shri Sahni to break his name into two!)has laid down for astrologers, it is clear that all the jyotish forums and astrology groups and jyotisha magazines and TV jyotishis etc. etc. must call it a day and close their shops! I, however, wonder whether Shri Sahni himself is following his own " guidelines " , since he has himself put all these guidelines (sic!) on " Jyoishgroup " , from which you have forwarded that post! But again, may be William Shakespeare was right when he had said, " I would easier teach twenty people what to do than to follow my own advice " ! <What exactly astrology is all about; To relate your surroundings changes within the Nature which can be calculated Mathematically with the Life sciences.? So it is basically a Time science.> Great cry and little wool! In spite of tirllions of " Vedic astrolgers " following the " Time Science " being around, apart from KP- walas and Lal Kitab-walas and Jaimini-walas and Mundane-astrology experts, etc. etc. not a single one had predicted anything about Mumbai carnage by terrorists! For that matter, no disasters or floods or famines etc. are/were ever predicted by any jyotishi, in spite of their quibblings about " Brihat Samhita " , which they claim to be full of such gems! There was, however, a comic relief on all the TV channels for the last two days---no " Astro-uncle " or " Teen deviyan " or " tez-tare " or " aapka-bhavishya " or " aapke-tare " etc. etc. on any of the channels since all of them were vying with one another to report the terrorsit activities " exclusively " ! After all, these TV channels are more worried about their TRPs, and TV jyotishis, like so many other things, are only a means to that end! Dhanyavad. A K Kaul , " prashanthnair999 " <prashanthnair999 wrote: > > > , " Inder Jit Sahni " > <inder_jit_sahni@> wrote: > > What exactly astrology is all about; To relate your surroundings changes > within the Nature which can be calculated Mathematically with the Life > sciences.? > > > > So it is basically a Time science. > > > > Very hard rules are prescribed by our masters for the persons who > practice > Astrology or for those too who want to consult an astrologer. > > > > To whom one shall teach is also mentioned. > > > > When one need to consult an astrologer , it is his Karmic activity which > brought to him to an astrologer. > > Think , how many forces act at that time? > > > > And when he consult an astrologer , the Divine Grace , the Karmas > negative > or positive and the Strong will of the Astrologer , indirectly of the > Supreme Lord help trace the things to the astrologer and consultant and > the > person if destined is to be helped , will be helped or will be facing > a > cheater who will wash few of the sins of the consultant and will add to > his > own negative Karmas. > > > > So can you compare an internet reading with a real Astrological > Experience. > Not at All. > > > > In fact the Internet Astrology or what is written in Books or Magazines > are > the graves of the actual cases dealt by the Astrologers that too with > half > information provided which is in fact available to the Astrologer at the > time of consultation. Or those are the cases of Famous persons who never > consulted an astrologer but the Astrologer wanted to ride a chart for > his > own interests. > > These are posted by those who sell themselves for fame or money . > > Then there are others who run from this group to another to find the > answer > of different astrologers, these are beggars moving under the Mask of > need > and are answered by such astrologers either out of proud or innocence. > These persons do not match the minimum requirements and norms that how > to > pose a question to an astrologer. Money is not always a consideration , > but > a person must take other pains to help himself that his questions is > addressed properly. > > > > Never ask in a group; never answer in a group to the personal issues of > others; a learned astrologer shall never answer to the consultants in > group. A student of Astrology may try this by private answering to the > persons asking in the group . The persons whose sub lords are Moon or > Mercury stars will never have faith on any astrologer and will move > from > this group to another . > > > > Do not believe in one minute astrology, any astrologer to check some > combination may ask some questions but this is in real astrology, > nothing > can change your destiny, forget that purchasing Shoes or buying > something > else will brought good luck or bad luck. Instead these are tricks to > find if > the particular planet had acted or not. > > I had seen these in abundance but who failed miserably in predicting > future. > > An astrologer now NO more from Jodhpur will give you your Date of Birth > and > time but everything else he predicted go wrong , he did not give this > even to his son. > > > > When an Astrologer Predict to a Consultant , the acting forces I had > explained above. > > > > But what when a Student wish to know ? His 9th house operates, 9this > Destiny > and 9th is Dharma. > > Destny is expenditure of Karmas it is expenditure of 10th house but > Dharma > is independent identity an identity which shows the holding nature of > the > individual, it is again through the Guru , which is again an independent > identity, the 10th for Dharma and Guru are your collection of deeds, > see > how beautifully the 9th and 10th are Collection and expenditure to each > other the 9th give strength through Satwoguna to the Rajoguni Lagna . > > > > He will be addressed as per his own intentions , one's own submission > to > the almighty will produce a teacher for him. According to his 9th house. > > So here it is only a learning experience and it is not the same as was > the > case when the person actually consulted an Astrologer. > > > > If he cannot gain , it is his own fault not of others , all teachers > are > evolution of the Almighty, he who understands it never frustrate, > because > frustration is , that you don't believe in almighty the Supreme Lord. > > > > Also being an Astrologer if one cannot differentiate with the time of > consultation and time of learning then he is a great Idiot in the > science > of Astrology and such person shall not be answered by a wise man. > > > > I will narrate two cases for the students of Astrology out of answered > on > 23.11.2008 . > > > > A woman of 65 years of Age consulting at 30.12.N 75.00.E appeared > before > me with no birth chart at 11.26 AM . > > She said that she was recommended by name by a villager around 50 KMs > from > here who got a son on the Date as was predicted by me. > > I asked her a no. from 1 to 249 and she gave me 65 No. > > The Saturn Antardasha was running in Moon Mahadsha. > > As per No. chart Jupiter was exact in 7th Cusp, Rahu too had shifted in > Cusp > chart in 7th . For Vedic Astrologers shift the Lagna to 26.33 degrees > Gemini > > > > Now look as the qualification of the woman as an consultant, she had > taken > pains to travel through Busses for 40 Kms and then around 10 Km's > through > Rikshas , and is eager to pay the consultation charges, in such a > situation > , even if one do not pay and had come for rescue the Astrologer must > answer > . > > She did not tell me anything except that she is much in grief. > > Looking at Saturn in Venus star I 1st confirmed that you bought a > Buffalo > from August 2007 to October 2007. > > And this Buffalo was in trouble or can be loss after 21 September. > > Now see , Can I ask this question to my Consultant at Delhi or Bombay? > > No not at all. > > She confirmed that she purchased one which was worth 70 thousand and it > died > in October. > > Rahu in the 7h Cusp and 1st Saturn in Venus star and Venus in 6th Cusp. > > > > How many things could be said now ? Look at my narration. > > The house is progressing well since Moon Mahadasha ; Jupiter Venus in > 4rth > from Moon other three malefic in 3rd from Moon. But she is not happy > mentally because of the respect and care she expects from her husband > and > Sons. > > Husband had a rise in Sun Mahadasha , may be in politics , but from > Moon > Dasha only moving in proud of previous success wasting his time with > others > and not caring about her and even beat her and had done so in Rahu > antra. > > > > She confirmed that her husband was elected Village Sarpanch/Headman and > remained So for Sun Mahadsha upto 2003, and other things I told too are > correct. > > > > Sun in 11th from 7th and Jupiter in own house close to 7th cusp shows > her > husband selfish behave, Its being in Sun Star and Sun in 5th Cusp shows > Political success. > > > > IIt also speaks so many other things which after hearing and after > knowing > the solution she returned back blessing. > > > > 2nd Case I am giving for others to calculate. > > > > This was a couple at 11.55 AM on 23.11.2008 at the same place. > > The Huband gave me his horoscope Date 26.11.1960 time 19.58 Hours IST > at > Jaito 30.28.N 74.53.E > > To confirm time I only matched the personality with Sub lord Sun in > Saturn > Star occupant of 5th Cusp. > > That he is a man of Ego , but introvert lazy , doing something technical > but > had a revenue income or a workshop, all linking to 8th house. > > He confirmed that he is a owner of City Cable network and thus earn > through > its revenue . > > Everything else was told by me and confirmed by him. > > > > I am posting this case , what will you say to the consultant at this > time. > > With Best Wishes, > > Inder Jit Sahni > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 This is answer for ur blind eyes who dont see facts ( i ahv seen predictions but who will spread pearls b4 swines ) if predicted u bash it ,if happened u generalise it But i am also converted dont mind ,so i am 100% agreeing with u so long as i am getting money for it ,astrologers has no job or money their only aim is predict for free for nations and individuals and then ppl like u who dont know head tail of anything can bash it as it is more easy did u do spade work which i told u and tell me what u find ,at least learn it in this old age . long liv dollar and euro http://www.journalofastrology.com/article.php?article_id=192 MUMBAI ATTACKED - INDIA DISGRACED KN RAO 28 November 2008, 8:28 AM No single incident in the history of independent India has disgraced the nation as much as the terrorist attack on Bombay since the night of 26 November. It continued for more than forty eight hours and the Indian commandos were still operating and the terrorists had not been killed or flushed out yet (6/26pm) at the time I started writing this piece. We were returning from Nathdwara and reached Jaipur on our way back to Delhi on 26 November and it was there when I opened the internet that I read about terrorists at Bombay. Some live pictures in the television channels did show us some action pictures but we had to journey back and it was only six hours after that we saw more of the television pictures. As usual, the English televison channels were objective crisp and non-speculative in their coverage while the Hindi channels had many stupid women anchors (the eye ball formula) rattling off whatever nonsense it suited them to utter with some sentimental and patriotic looking stuff with fluency. What was the news ?Again one had to fall back on the English news channels to pick up some facts which were startling:(a) The terrorists had set up control rooms in these hotels. What was the Bombay police doing and what has the UPA government to say in its defence because it was happening in a Congress ruled state and not a BJP ruled one which it could have blamed and patted its own back?b) Ammunition stored in these hotels used by the terrorists were huge enough to wage a regular war for so many days.What was the Bombay police doing and what has the UPA government to say in its defence because it was happening in a Congress ruled state and not a BJP ruled one which it could have blamed and patted its own back.c) The Bombay underworld helped the terrorists with full knowledge of the layout of these hotels which commandos of Indian army did not know.These criminals also helped the terrorists with ammunition and food to last for many days. A report from USA reads thus: US intelligence expert says Patil is incompetentAziz Haniffa in Washington, DC November 28, 2008 11:28 ISTLast Updated: November 28, 2008 11:29 ISTWalter Andersen, a former senior Administration official, who headed up the State Department's South Asia Division of the Intelligence and Research Bureau has said the Mumbai terrorist attacks showed clearly a failure of India's intelligence and security apparatus and also the utter incompetence of Home Minister Shivraj Patil ."You have a totally incompetent home minister, and why he isn't removed is beyond me," he said, "He really doesn't know how to get the bureaucracy organised to have some sort of coordinated planning." He acknowledged that in the wake of reports that the terrorists had set up control rooms in the two hotels ahead of time, showed that "this was a sophisticated, well planned set up. This is something that takes months of planning." It takes months of planning and the government of Maharastra and of India were not aware it ? Can there be a more disgraceful proof of the inability of these governments to govern? They know, these politicians, only the art of vote bank politics and cannot like USA,UK and other European pass stringent legislation and take ruthless action to wipe out these. They will not and they cannot because they have to appease some sections for their votes. They cannot see that their policies have only encouraged the growth of home grown terrorists. And read thess two reports1) Meanwhile, there are reports that Colaba police have impounded four boats allegedly used by the terrorists to reach the Mumbai coast. 2) Thursday, Nov 27 2008 Islamic terror group e-mailed threat to attack Mumbai two months agoBy Daily Mail ReporterLast updated at 10:37 AM on 27th November 2008An Islamic terror group warned it was planning a massacre in Mumbai two months ago, it emerged today. Combine it with what I had written in the following piece. THE NUCLEAR DEAL 2KN RAO31 July 2008, 12:50 AM"And it is the antardasha of Ketu in the seventh house in the horoscope of India. I reminded the students that in 1981 I had written in the Vishwa Vijay Panchanga (Hindi) that the Ketu dasha in the Indian horoscope would be dreadful in many ways. We had Punjab terrorist in spreading which USA was said to have a big hand and if USSR had not passed on the information, the Golden Temple tragedy would have more disastrous than what it was. But it did lead to the assassination of Indira Gandhi and killing of Sikhs in Delhi and elsewhere in India. Now the Ketu antardasha and two eclipses falling in August, both visible and both affecting the axis of religious/communal harmony how could India remain complacent with unchecked growth of home grown terrorists? The nuclear deal had to trigger it off. The terrorists had prepared very well as the events show. But will the television channels show any sense of moral and national responsibility? (30 July 2008) "It has been said in a report that this terrorist act has been financed by Saudi Arabia and training has been given in Pakistan with the help of Al Quaeda. And, without taking sides ask yourself will you agree with L.K.Advani's attack that the Manmohan Singh's is the most incompetent government and was totally responsible for the inordinate growth of terrorists who can now operate freely in India? Terrorists can set up a operation room and dump enough ammunition for months inside a big city of India without being detected and then wage a battle!! India is now a disgraced nation with no need to seek such a certificate from anyone in or outside India from its critics. History will record what a US paper now says gleefully: "Attack forces India onto front lines of global war on terror " ( 28 Nov 2008) , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Prashanth Nairji,> Namaskar!> > < Very hard rules are prescribed by our masters for the persons who> practice Astrology or for those too who want to consult an > astrologer...... > > In fact the Internet Astrology or what is written in Books or > Magazines are the graves of the actual cases dealt by the > Astrologers that too with half information provided which is in fact > available to the Astrologer at the time of consultation. Or those are > the cases of Famous persons who never consulted an astrologer but the > Astrologer wanted to ride a chart for his own interests....>> > > Judging from the criteria that Inder Jit Sahni (IMHO the actual word > should be "Inderjit" but then maybe some numerologist as advised Shri > Sahni to break his name into two!)has laid down for astrologers, it > is clear that all the jyotish forums and astrology groups and > jyotisha magazines and TV jyotishis etc. etc. must call it a day and > close their shops!> > I, however, wonder whether Shri Sahni himself is following his > own "guidelines", since he has himself put all these guidelines (sic!)> on "Jyoishgroup ", from which you have forwarded that > post! But again, may be William Shakespeare was right when he had > said, "I would easier teach twenty people what to do than to follow > my own advice"!> > <What exactly astrology is all about; To relate your surroundings > changes within the Nature which can be calculated Mathematically with > the Life sciences.?> So it is basically a Time science.>> > Great cry and little wool! In spite of tirllions of "Vedic > astrolgers" following the "Time Science" being around, apart from KP-> walas and Lal Kitab-walas and Jaimini-walas and Mundane-astrology > experts, etc. etc. not a single one had predicted anything about > Mumbai carnage by terrorists! For that matter, no disasters or > floods or famines etc. are/were ever predicted by any jyotishi, in > spite of their quibblings about "Brihat Samhita", which they claim to > be full of such gems!> > There was, however, a comic relief on all the TV channels for the > last two days---no "Astro-uncle" or "Teen deviyan" or "tez-tare" > or "aapka-bhavishya" or "aapke-tare" etc. etc. on any of the channels > since all of them were vying with one another to report the terrorsit > activities "exclusively"! After all, these TV channels are more > worried about their TRPs, and TV jyotishis, like so many other > things, are only a means to that end!> Dhanyavad.> A K Kaul> > > > > > > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > , "Inder Jit Sahni"> > <inder_jit_sahni@> wrote:> > > > What exactly astrology is all about; To relate your surroundings > changes> > within the Nature which can be calculated Mathematically with the > Life> > sciences.?> > > > > > > > So it is basically a Time science.> > > > > > > > Very hard rules are prescribed by our masters for the persons who> > practice> > Astrology or for those too who want to consult an astrologer.> > > > > > > > To whom one shall teach is also mentioned.> > > > > > > > When one need to consult an astrologer , it is his Karmic activity > which> > brought to him to an astrologer.> > > > Think , how many forces act at that time?> > > > > > > > And when he consult an astrologer , the Divine Grace , the Karmas> > negative> > or positive and the Strong will of the Astrologer , indirectly of > the> > Supreme Lord help trace the things to the astrologer and consultant > and> > the> > person if destined is to be helped , will be helped or will be > facing> > a> > cheater who will wash few of the sins of the consultant and will > add to> > his> > own negative Karmas.> > > > > > > > So can you compare an internet reading with a real Astrological> > Experience.> > Not at All.> > > > > > > > In fact the Internet Astrology or what is written in Books or > Magazines> > are> > the graves of the actual cases dealt by the Astrologers that too > with> > half> > information provided which is in fact available to the Astrologer > at the> > time of consultation. Or those are the cases of Famous persons who > never> > consulted an astrologer but the Astrologer wanted to ride a chart > for> > his> > own interests.> > > > These are posted by those who sell themselves for fame or money .> > > > Then there are others who run from this group to another to find > the> > answer> > of different astrologers, these are beggars moving under the Mask of> > need> > and are answered by such astrologers either out of proud or > innocence.> > These persons do not match the minimum requirements and norms that > how> > to> > pose a question to an astrologer. Money is not always a > consideration ,> > but> > a person must take other pains to help himself that his questions > is> > addressed properly.> > > > > > > > Never ask in a group; never answer in a group to the personal > issues of> > others; a learned astrologer shall never answer to the consultants > in> > group. A student of Astrology may try this by private answering to > the> > persons asking in the group . The persons whose sub lords are Moon > or> > Mercury stars will never have faith on any astrologer and will move> > from> > this group to another .> > > > > > > > Do not believe in one minute astrology, any astrologer to check some> > combination may ask some questions but this is in real astrology,> > nothing> > can change your destiny, forget that purchasing Shoes or buying> > something> > else will brought good luck or bad luck. Instead these are tricks to> > find if> > the particular planet had acted or not.> > > > I had seen these in abundance but who failed miserably in predicting> > future.> > > > An astrologer now NO more from Jodhpur will give you your Date of > Birth> > and> > time but everything else he predicted go wrong , he did not give > this> > even to his son.> > > > > > > > When an Astrologer Predict to a Consultant , the acting forces I > had> > explained above.> > > > > > > > But what when a Student wish to know ? His 9th house operates, 9this> > Destiny> > and 9th is Dharma.> > > > Destny is expenditure of Karmas it is expenditure of 10th house but> > Dharma> > is independent identity an identity which shows the holding nature > of> > the> > individual, it is again through the Guru , which is again an > independent> > identity, the 10th for Dharma and Guru are your collection of > deeds,> > see> > how beautifully the 9th and 10th are Collection and expenditure to > each> > other the 9th give strength through Satwoguna to the Rajoguni > Lagna .> > > > > > > > He will be addressed as per his own intentions , one's own > submission> > to> > the almighty will produce a teacher for him. According to his 9th > house.> > > > So here it is only a learning experience and it is not the same as > was> > the> > case when the person actually consulted an Astrologer.> > > > > > > > If he cannot gain , it is his own fault not of others , all > teachers> > are> > evolution of the Almighty, he who understands it never frustrate,> > because> > frustration is , that you don't believe in almighty the Supreme > Lord.> > > > > > > > Also being an Astrologer if one cannot differentiate with the time > of> > consultation and time of learning then he is a great Idiot in the> > science> > of Astrology and such person shall not be answered by a wise man.> > > > > > > > I will narrate two cases for the students of Astrology out of > answered> > on> > 23.11.2008 .> > > > > > > > A woman of 65 years of Age consulting at 30.12.N 75.00.E appeared> > before> > me with no birth chart at 11.26 AM .> > > > She said that she was recommended by name by a villager around 50 > KMs> > from> > here who got a son on the Date as was predicted by me.> > > > I asked her a no. from 1 to 249 and she gave me 65 No.> > > > The Saturn Antardasha was running in Moon Mahadsha.> > > > As per No. chart Jupiter was exact in 7th Cusp, Rahu too had > shifted in> > Cusp> > chart in 7th . For Vedic Astrologers shift the Lagna to 26.33 > degrees> > Gemini> > > > > > > > Now look as the qualification of the woman as an consultant, she had> > taken> > pains to travel through Busses for 40 Kms and then around 10 Km's> > through> > Rikshas , and is eager to pay the consultation charges, in such a> > situation> > , even if one do not pay and had come for rescue the Astrologer must> > answer> > .> > > > She did not tell me anything except that she is much in grief.> > > > Looking at Saturn in Venus star I 1st confirmed that you bought a> > Buffalo> > from August 2007 to October 2007.> > > > And this Buffalo was in trouble or can be loss after 21 September.> > > > Now see , Can I ask this question to my Consultant at Delhi or > Bombay?> > > > No not at all.> > > > She confirmed that she purchased one which was worth 70 thousand > and it> > died> > in October.> > > > Rahu in the 7h Cusp and 1st Saturn in Venus star and Venus in 6th > Cusp.> > > > > > > > How many things could be said now ? Look at my narration.> > > > The house is progressing well since Moon Mahadasha ; Jupiter Venus > in> > 4rth> > from Moon other three malefic in 3rd from Moon. But she is not > happy> > mentally because of the respect and care she expects from her > husband> > and> > Sons.> > > > Husband had a rise in Sun Mahadasha , may be in politics , but from> > Moon> > Dasha only moving in proud of previous success wasting his time with> > others> > and not caring about her and even beat her and had done so in Rahu> > antra.> > > > > > > > She confirmed that her husband was elected Village > Sarpanch/Headman and> > remained So for Sun Mahadsha upto 2003, and other things I told too > are> > correct.> > > > > > > > Sun in 11th from 7th and Jupiter in own house close to 7th cusp > shows> > her> > husband selfish behave, Its being in Sun Star and Sun in 5th Cusp > shows> > Political success.> > > > > > > > IIt also speaks so many other things which after hearing and after> > knowing> > the solution she returned back blessing.> > > > > > > > 2nd Case I am giving for others to calculate.> > > > > > > > This was a couple at 11.55 AM on 23.11.2008 at the same place.> > > > The Huband gave me his horoscope Date 26.11.1960 time 19.58 Hours > IST> > at> > Jaito 30.28.N 74.53.E> > > > To confirm time I only matched the personality with Sub lord Sun in> > Saturn> > Star occupant of 5th Cusp.> > > > That he is a man of Ego , but introvert lazy , doing something > technical> > but> > had a revenue income or a workshop, all linking to 8th house.> > > > He confirmed that he is a owner of City Cable network and thus earn> > through> > its revenue .> > > > Everything else was told by me and confirmed by him.> > > > > > > > I am posting this case , what will you say to the consultant at > this> > time.> > > > With Best Wishes,> > > > Inder Jit Sahni> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Dear respected kaul ji namsakram I was watchting all of u ,all of u those crying with crocodile tear for fraud against humans with ur hiding agendas why dont u write one line when nation was disgraced and humilated ,when inncoents were massacred atfr wards all of u will come and ask did any jyothishi predicted this or that( i was even waiting all of u to strt it ) what r u offering to jyothishies to predict except some title which u dont like when some one call u same names and calls it unparliamntary where as all ur mails r full of such adjectivs .I never hear such flawed logic ,if all predictions come true also u will say wrong data and correct predictions i am first time hearing such foolery in my life .i dont care as i hav common sense how doctor saved me than bashing on his technics or medicine he used ,This is true with anything we do in this world ,I dont care the flight used petrol or water to carry me to destination if the journy was comfortable and i arrived safe there without any problems .And that is what humans r diffrs frm other animals ,proper logic and proper understanding .Here It is as if u want water to b packged in cloth as it is used for packing some other thing .so why cant u use it --such type of foolish arguemnts when nation was in danger now and b4 what u hav done ?? what u can do ( other than taking money and title frm desha drohies and supporting for their cause ) during these days u were busy and even religiously posting all this kind of abusiv mails and lie mails to many grps where no one interested nor even the addresee is not even the memebr of that grp to answer u .what is reason for ur uncivilised barbaric behaviour ?? , i am just curious ,tho ur answer will b same meshadi and yavanas and rishi bashing and some half or full lies and need of hr is ur valentine day calender regrds prashanth nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 r u suggesting astrology works 100% & or can be trusted 100% atleast in the *forecasting* (or *predicting* if you believe in free will) aspect of nuclear attacks? hv u imagined war-gaming scenarios if so why do you require astrologers to iamgine it for you? refer war-gaming RAND research dollar is being sytemtatically killed long live amero On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 3:18 PM, prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999 wrote: Dear respected kaul ji namsakram I was watchting all of u ,all of u those crying with crocodile tear for fraud against humans with ur hiding agendas why dont u write one line when nation was disgraced and humilated ,when inncoents were massacred atfr wards all of u will come and ask did any jyothishi predicted this or that( i was even waiting all of u to strt it ) what r u offering to jyothishies to predict except some title which u dont like when some one call u same names and calls it unparliamntary where as all ur mails r full of such adjectivs .I never hear such flawed logic ,if all predictions come true also u will say wrong data and correct predictions i am first time hearing such foolery in my life .i dont care as i hav common sense how doctor saved me than bashing on his technics or medicine he used ,This is true with anything we do in this world ,I dont care the flight used petrol or water to carry me to destination if the journy was comfortable and i arrived safe there without any problems .And that is what humans r diffrs frm other animals ,proper logic and proper understanding .Here It is as if u want water to b packged in cloth as it is used for packing some other thing .so why cant u use it --such type of foolish arguemnts when nation was in danger now and b4 what u hav done ?? what u can do ( other than taking money and title frm desha drohies and supporting for their cause ) during these days u were busy and even religiously posting all this kind of abusiv mails and lie mails to many grps where no one interested nor even the addresee is not even the memebr of that grp to answer u .what is reason for ur uncivilised barbaric behaviour ?? , i am just curious ,tho ur answer will b same meshadi and yavanas and rishi bashing and some half or full lies and need of hr is ur valentine day calender regrds prashanth nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Resp. Kaul ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some logical quotient in the mind of members. But today I want to teach you in reverse direction. Hi Hi Hi. You are asking as to why astrologers have not forecasted about the Mumbai episode. So - do you think that our astrologers are God. Certainly not. Because you may have some personal discussion with many astrologers like me. All astrologers in their free mind accept the failures of astrology but they will not admit it in front of their clients. Though many astrologers have admitted in forums too about the problem with predictive astrology like sh Inder Jit Sahni (whom you have referred). - do you think that any astrological principle right from varahmihir to KP or any other branch of prediction have any predictive principle that during so and so combination of planets, Mumbai episode will happen. Certainly not. Then when every so called prediction is a inference drawn by astrologer from his whim fused with current status of client on the basis of any combination of planet then where is the question of drawing such correct inference. It is like a tossing of coin from which every one is free to draw any conclusion on the basis of head and tail. Then where is the question of any failure of astrologers who are simply fighting for their livelihood and providing counseling to a innocent, ignorant fool who has faith that astrologer and planet will do all good for him. Who will (except learner astrologers) help those innocent infected fools having wrong concept, since his childhood, and roaming in various forums or at the shops of astrologers. Are we not fallen in the mud of predictive astrology after hooking by family members or by friends etc. So initially we were also driven in this foolish area. Strangely there is not a single astrologer even after +2000 years who may say that he has learnt astrology to some satisfaction. Whenever they caught, they slip in the coverup of learner otherwise they are learnt. So leave them for their job. Now after so long study and reading, what we are trying to inform the members that do not fall in the trap as we have already studied with analytical approach and not for livelihood or for wrong counseling. So if any member want to come out from this disease then he can only get rid off from this, only when he will think differently, logically, scientifically, and always try to find out the answer on various unanswered questions being raised in the forum. We can only provide the rope of information but member has to pick the information and has to try himself for amending his mindset on the basis of information. So Sh. Kaul Ji, please do not blame poor astrologers when they have no such pinpointed principle. Let them earn from the individuals in the era of unemployment. Because when Govt. is disabling to create jobs then let them continue with their job. We are only concerned for those persons who are going to fall in this pond. Gandhi ji said " do not hate paapi hate paap " . In the same way criticize astrological principles and not astrologers, which I am doing since the beginning. What is your (and member's) valuable opinion. Hope to hear your regular msg full with information. Thanks Yours Sanat , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > Namaskar! > > < Very hard rules are prescribed by our masters for the persons who > practice Astrology or for those too who want to consult an > astrologer...... > > In fact the Internet Astrology or what is written in Books or > Magazines are the graves of the actual cases dealt by the > Astrologers that too with half information provided which is in fact > available to the Astrologer at the time of consultation. Or those are > the cases of Famous persons who never consulted an astrologer but the > Astrologer wanted to ride a chart for his own interests....> > > > Judging from the criteria that Inder Jit Sahni (IMHO the actual word > should be " Inderjit " but then maybe some numerologist as advised Shri > Sahni to break his name into two!)has laid down for astrologers, it > is clear that all the jyotish forums and astrology groups and > jyotisha magazines and TV jyotishis etc. etc. must call it a day and > close their shops! > > I, however, wonder whether Shri Sahni himself is following his > own " guidelines " , since he has himself put all these guidelines (sic!) > on " Jyoishgroup " , from which you have forwarded that > post! But again, may be William Shakespeare was right when he had > said, " I would easier teach twenty people what to do than to follow > my own advice " ! > > <What exactly astrology is all about; To relate your surroundings > changes within the Nature which can be calculated Mathematically with > the Life sciences.? > So it is basically a Time science.> > > Great cry and little wool! In spite of tirllions of " Vedic > astrolgers " following the " Time Science " being around, apart from KP- > walas and Lal Kitab-walas and Jaimini-walas and Mundane-astrology > experts, etc. etc. not a single one had predicted anything about > Mumbai carnage by terrorists! For that matter, no disasters or > floods or famines etc. are/were ever predicted by any jyotishi, in > spite of their quibblings about " Brihat Samhita " , which they claim to > be full of such gems! > > There was, however, a comic relief on all the TV channels for the > last two days---no " Astro-uncle " or " Teen deviyan " or " tez-tare " > or " aapka-bhavishya " or " aapke-tare " etc. etc. on any of the channels > since all of them were vying with one another to report the terrorsit > activities " exclusively " ! After all, these TV channels are more > worried about their TRPs, and TV jyotishis, like so many other > things, are only a means to that end! > Dhanyavad. > A K Kaul , " prashanthnair999 " > <prashanthnair999@> wrote: > > > > > > , " Inder Jit Sahni " > > <inder_jit_sahni@> wrote: > > > > What exactly astrology is all about; To relate your surroundings > changes > > within the Nature which can be calculated Mathematically with the > Life > > sciences.? > > > > > > > > So it is basically a Time science. > > > > > > > > Very hard rules are prescribed by our masters for the persons who > > practice > > Astrology or for those too who want to consult an astrologer. > > > > > > > > To whom one shall teach is also mentioned. > > > > > > > > When one need to consult an astrologer , it is his Karmic activity > which > > brought to him to an astrologer. > > > > Think , how many forces act at that time? > > > > > > > > And when he consult an astrologer , the Divine Grace , the Karmas > > negative > > or positive and the Strong will of the Astrologer , indirectly of > the > > Supreme Lord help trace the things to the astrologer and consultant > and > > the > > person if destined is to be helped , will be helped or will be > facing > > a > > cheater who will wash few of the sins of the consultant and will > add to > > his > > own negative Karmas. > > > > > > > > So can you compare an internet reading with a real Astrological > > Experience. > > Not at All. > > > > > > > > In fact the Internet Astrology or what is written in Books or > Magazines > > are > > the graves of the actual cases dealt by the Astrologers that too > with > > half > > information provided which is in fact available to the Astrologer > at the > > time of consultation. Or those are the cases of Famous persons who > never > > consulted an astrologer but the Astrologer wanted to ride a chart > for > > his > > own interests. > > > > These are posted by those who sell themselves for fame or money . > > > > Then there are others who run from this group to another to find > the > > answer > > of different astrologers, these are beggars moving under the Mask of > > need > > and are answered by such astrologers either out of proud or > innocence. > > These persons do not match the minimum requirements and norms that > how > > to > > pose a question to an astrologer. Money is not always a > consideration , > > but > > a person must take other pains to help himself that his questions > is > > addressed properly. > > > > > > > > Never ask in a group; never answer in a group to the personal > issues of > > others; a learned astrologer shall never answer to the consultants > in > > group. A student of Astrology may try this by private answering to > the > > persons asking in the group . The persons whose sub lords are Moon > or > > Mercury stars will never have faith on any astrologer and will move > > from > > this group to another . > > > > > > > > Do not believe in one minute astrology, any astrologer to check some > > combination may ask some questions but this is in real astrology, > > nothing > > can change your destiny, forget that purchasing Shoes or buying > > something > > else will brought good luck or bad luck. Instead these are tricks to > > find if > > the particular planet had acted or not. > > > > I had seen these in abundance but who failed miserably in predicting > > future. > > > > An astrologer now NO more from Jodhpur will give you your Date of > Birth > > and > > time but everything else he predicted go wrong , he did not give > this > > even to his son. > > > > > > > > When an Astrologer Predict to a Consultant , the acting forces I > had > > explained above. > > > > > > > > But what when a Student wish to know ? His 9th house operates, 9this > > Destiny > > and 9th is Dharma. > > > > Destny is expenditure of Karmas it is expenditure of 10th house but > > Dharma > > is independent identity an identity which shows the holding nature > of > > the > > individual, it is again through the Guru , which is again an > independent > > identity, the 10th for Dharma and Guru are your collection of > deeds, > > see > > how beautifully the 9th and 10th are Collection and expenditure to > each > > other the 9th give strength through Satwoguna to the Rajoguni > Lagna . > > > > > > > > He will be addressed as per his own intentions , one's own > submission > > to > > the almighty will produce a teacher for him. According to his 9th > house. > > > > So here it is only a learning experience and it is not the same as > was > > the > > case when the person actually consulted an Astrologer. > > > > > > > > If he cannot gain , it is his own fault not of others , all > teachers > > are > > evolution of the Almighty, he who understands it never frustrate, > > because > > frustration is , that you don't believe in almighty the Supreme > Lord. > > > > > > > > Also being an Astrologer if one cannot differentiate with the time > of > > consultation and time of learning then he is a great Idiot in the > > science > > of Astrology and such person shall not be answered by a wise man. > > > > > > > > I will narrate two cases for the students of Astrology out of > answered > > on > > 23.11.2008 . > > > > > > > > A woman of 65 years of Age consulting at 30.12.N 75.00.E appeared > > before > > me with no birth chart at 11.26 AM . > > > > She said that she was recommended by name by a villager around 50 > KMs > > from > > here who got a son on the Date as was predicted by me. > > > > I asked her a no. from 1 to 249 and she gave me 65 No. > > > > The Saturn Antardasha was running in Moon Mahadsha. > > > > As per No. chart Jupiter was exact in 7th Cusp, Rahu too had > shifted in > > Cusp > > chart in 7th . For Vedic Astrologers shift the Lagna to 26.33 > degrees > > Gemini > > > > > > > > Now look as the qualification of the woman as an consultant, she had > > taken > > pains to travel through Busses for 40 Kms and then around 10 Km's > > through > > Rikshas , and is eager to pay the consultation charges, in such a > > situation > > , even if one do not pay and had come for rescue the Astrologer must > > answer > > . > > > > She did not tell me anything except that she is much in grief. > > > > Looking at Saturn in Venus star I 1st confirmed that you bought a > > Buffalo > > from August 2007 to October 2007. > > > > And this Buffalo was in trouble or can be loss after 21 September. > > > > Now see , Can I ask this question to my Consultant at Delhi or > Bombay? > > > > No not at all. > > > > She confirmed that she purchased one which was worth 70 thousand > and it > > died > > in October. > > > > Rahu in the 7h Cusp and 1st Saturn in Venus star and Venus in 6th > Cusp. > > > > > > > > How many things could be said now ? Look at my narration. > > > > The house is progressing well since Moon Mahadasha ; Jupiter Venus > in > > 4rth > > from Moon other three malefic in 3rd from Moon. But she is not > happy > > mentally because of the respect and care she expects from her > husband > > and > > Sons. > > > > Husband had a rise in Sun Mahadasha , may be in politics , but from > > Moon > > Dasha only moving in proud of previous success wasting his time with > > others > > and not caring about her and even beat her and had done so in Rahu > > antra. > > > > > > > > She confirmed that her husband was elected Village > Sarpanch/Headman and > > remained So for Sun Mahadsha upto 2003, and other things I told too > are > > correct. > > > > > > > > Sun in 11th from 7th and Jupiter in own house close to 7th cusp > shows > > her > > husband selfish behave, Its being in Sun Star and Sun in 5th Cusp > shows > > Political success. > > > > > > > > IIt also speaks so many other things which after hearing and after > > knowing > > the solution she returned back blessing. > > > > > > > > 2nd Case I am giving for others to calculate. > > > > > > > > This was a couple at 11.55 AM on 23.11.2008 at the same place. > > > > The Huband gave me his horoscope Date 26.11.1960 time 19.58 Hours > IST > > at > > Jaito 30.28.N 74.53.E > > > > To confirm time I only matched the personality with Sub lord Sun in > > Saturn > > Star occupant of 5th Cusp. > > > > That he is a man of Ego , but introvert lazy , doing something > technical > > but > > had a revenue income or a workshop, all linking to 8th house. > > > > He confirmed that he is a owner of City Cable network and thus earn > > through > > its revenue . > > > > Everything else was told by me and confirmed by him. > > > > > > > > I am posting this case , what will you say to the consultant at > this > > time. > > > > With Best Wishes, > > > > Inder Jit Sahni > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Dear Sanatji, Namaskar. Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years ago for finding and proving (scientifically?)that prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I have no further questions. Thanx & regds, VBDeshmukh --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > Resp. Kaul ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > logical quotient in > the mind of members. But today I want to teach you > in reverse > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > forecasted about the > Mumbai episode. So > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > Certainly not. Because > you may have some personal discussion with many > astrologers like me. > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > failures of astrology > but they will not admit it in front of their > clients. Though many > astrologers have admitted in forums too about the > problem with > predictive astrology like sh Inder Jit Sahni (whom > you have > referred). > > - do you think that any astrological principle right > from varahmihir > to KP or any other branch of prediction have any > predictive principle > that during so and so combination of planets, Mumbai > episode will > happen. Certainly not. Then when every so called > prediction is a > inference drawn by astrologer from his whim fused > with current status > of client on the basis of any combination of planet > then where is the > question of drawing such correct inference. It is > like a tossing of > coin from which every one is free to draw any > conclusion on the basis > of head and tail. Then where is the question of any > failure of > astrologers who are simply fighting for their > livelihood and > providing counseling to a innocent, ignorant fool > who has faith that > astrologer and planet will do all good for him. Who > will (except > learner astrologers) help those innocent infected > fools having wrong > concept, since his childhood, and roaming in various > forums or at the > shops of astrologers. Are we not fallen in the mud > of predictive > astrology after hooking by family members or by > friends etc. So > initially we were also driven in this foolish area. > Strangely there > is not a single astrologer even after +2000 years > who may say that he > has learnt astrology to some satisfaction. Whenever > they caught, they > slip in the coverup of learner otherwise they are > learnt. So leave > them for their job. > > Now after so long study and reading, what we are > trying to inform the > members that do not fall in the trap as we have > already studied with > analytical approach and not for livelihood or for > wrong counseling. > So if any member want to come out from this disease > then he can only > get rid off from this, only when he will think > differently, > logically, scientifically, and always try to find > out the answer on > various unanswered questions being raised in the > forum. We can only > provide the rope of information but member has to > pick the > information and has to try himself for amending his > mindset on the > basis of information. > > So Sh. Kaul Ji, please do not blame poor astrologers > when they have > no such pinpointed principle. Let them earn from the > individuals in > the era of unemployment. Because when Govt. is > disabling to create > jobs then let them continue with their job. We are > only concerned for > those persons who are going to fall in this pond. > Gandhi ji said " do > not hate paapi hate paap " . In the same way criticize > astrological > principles and not astrologers, which I am doing > since the beginning. > What is your (and member's) valuable opinion. > > Hope to hear your regular msg full with information. > > Thanks > > Yours > > Sanat > > > > > > , " Avtar > Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved wrote: > > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > > Namaskar! > > > > < Very hard rules are prescribed by our masters > for the persons who > > practice Astrology or for those too who want to > consult an > > astrologer...... > > > > In fact the Internet Astrology or what is written > in Books or > > Magazines are the graves of the actual cases > dealt by the > > Astrologers that too with half information > provided which is in > fact > > available to the Astrologer at the time of > consultation. Or those > are > > the cases of Famous persons who never consulted an > astrologer but > the > > Astrologer wanted to ride a chart for his own > interests....> > > > > > > Judging from the criteria that Inder Jit Sahni > (IMHO the actual > word > > should be " Inderjit " but then maybe some > numerologist as advised > Shri > > Sahni to break his name into two!)has laid down > for astrologers, it > > is clear that all the jyotish forums and astrology > groups and > > jyotisha magazines and TV jyotishis etc. etc. must > call it a day > and > > close their shops! > > > > I, however, wonder whether Shri Sahni himself is > following his > > own " guidelines " , since he has himself put all > these guidelines > (sic!) > > on " Jyoishgroup " , from which you > have forwarded > that > > post! But again, may be William Shakespeare was > right when he had > > said, " I would easier teach twenty people what to > do than to follow > > my own advice " ! > > > > <What exactly astrology is all about; To relate > your surroundings > > changes within the Nature which can be calculated > Mathematically > with > > the Life sciences.? > > So it is basically a Time science.> > > > > Great cry and little wool! In spite of tirllions > of " Vedic > > astrolgers " following the " Time Science " being > around, apart from > KP- > > walas and Lal Kitab-walas and Jaimini-walas and > Mundane-astrology > > experts, etc. etc. not a single one had predicted > anything about > > Mumbai carnage by terrorists! For that matter, no > disasters or > > floods or famines etc. are/were ever predicted by > any jyotishi, in > > spite of their quibblings about " Brihat Samhita " , > which they claim > to > > be full of such gems! > > > === message truncated === Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Resp. Deshmukh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be good. I have not started the study of astrology +35 years ago for proving that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also attracted towards astrology like many in this age group. But I continuously studied it thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also developed my own software for prediction based on astrological principles contained in scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain horoscope incorporating all requisite data required for any prediction (refer file section). This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and without any consultation fee etc. But I find that when a combination of principles may appears to be correct in one horoscope, but it is not affective in other horoscope. When I find this problem then I tried to look in to it, with different direction, because of my scientific aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this knowledge. Hence I happily diverted my direction to find as to what is the problem in the principles. Because no body has ever checked the correctness of basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are following the same track like blind followers. For analyzing the principles, it was essential to know as to how these principles were formulated and what were the data for such formulation and logic if any. After a fresh digging in this direction, what ever I find is an eye opener. But till that time I had spent about 25 years in this hobby hence I continued the analysis in this direction and could find all basic information for formulation of these principles and data used for such principles. After spending more then 5 years in this venture, it was decided to bring all these facts to general public through a book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi Das, Delhi, after studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that original research and content of the book is revolutionary and has capacity to block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish Kitna Sahi Kitna Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by the astrologers and general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that such original work has never been published. Hence they have also suggested me to bring this book in English, because of its original content. Thus my second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front page of the book is signature picture of our forum) also published from Delhi in 2005 and is being marketed all over the world (refer content of the book in file section). Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own time as books are not compilation from some books but original research based content hence it take lot of time. You may have observed that many members in the forum (and it is normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of prediction) always try to divert the direction of discussion, without digging it further from all possible direction, which is very essential for any analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not poke our mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion and so on. We must be very impartial, academic, with scientific aptitude and so on. After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that our sages were very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude to find the truth (future) hence all basic predictive principles (sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) were very logical hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, concept, social and religious background). But at the same time I will say that present form of predictive astrological principles is total bogus, myth, blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic information about the Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been drastically changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation of basic astrological principles have been changed then how the end product may be correct? Now due to business consideration, no astrologer will like to loose his business by infusing correct information to new generation. But what can be done. If new generation is being lured by false dreams or with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the most alert them ask them to read themselves as to how and why astrology is bogus. Thus Now I am on alerting job. Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You can also refer 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in file section. Thanks, Yours truly, Sanat PS : I hope members will share their views on various points raised in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also hope that they will keep their msg in academic frame (after pondering on any point) instead of useless narration or personal mindset or boosting their blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered question is a gateway of knowledge and interaction can only improve your knowledge, information etc. but can not change mindset, for which you have to apply your logical knowledge in this direction. , vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv wrote: > > Dear Sanatji, > Namaskar. > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years ago > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I have no > further questions. > Thanx & regds, > VBDeshmukh > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > logical quotient in > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach you > > in reverse > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > forecasted about the > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > Certainly not. Because > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > astrologers like me. > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > failures of astrology > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > clients. Though many > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about the > > problem with > > predictive astrology like sh Inder Jit Sahni (whom > > you have > > referred). > > > > - do you think that any astrological principle right > > from varahmihir > > to KP or any other branch of prediction have any > > predictive principle > > that during so and so combination of planets, Mumbai > > episode will > > happen. Certainly not. Then when every so called > > prediction is a > > inference drawn by astrologer from his whim fused > > with current status > > of client on the basis of any combination of planet > > then where is the > > question of drawing such correct inference. It is > > like a tossing of > > coin from which every one is free to draw any > > conclusion on the basis > > of head and tail. Then where is the question of any > > failure of > > astrologers who are simply fighting for their > > livelihood and > > providing counseling to a innocent, ignorant fool > > who has faith that > > astrologer and planet will do all good for him. Who > > will (except > > learner astrologers) help those innocent infected > > fools having wrong > > concept, since his childhood, and roaming in various > > forums or at the > > shops of astrologers. Are we not fallen in the mud > > of predictive > > astrology after hooking by family members or by > > friends etc. So > > initially we were also driven in this foolish area. > > Strangely there > > is not a single astrologer even after +2000 years > > who may say that he > > has learnt astrology to some satisfaction. Whenever > > they caught, they > > slip in the coverup of learner otherwise they are > > learnt. So leave > > them for their job. > > > > Now after so long study and reading, what we are > > trying to inform the > > members that do not fall in the trap as we have > > already studied with > > analytical approach and not for livelihood or for > > wrong counseling. > > So if any member want to come out from this disease > > then he can only > > get rid off from this, only when he will think > > differently, > > logically, scientifically, and always try to find > > out the answer on > > various unanswered questions being raised in the > > forum. We can only > > provide the rope of information but member has to > > pick the > > information and has to try himself for amending his > > mindset on the > > basis of information. > > > > So Sh. Kaul Ji, please do not blame poor astrologers > > when they have > > no such pinpointed principle. Let them earn from the > > individuals in > > the era of unemployment. Because when Govt. is > > disabling to create > > jobs then let them continue with their job. We are > > only concerned for > > those persons who are going to fall in this pond. > > Gandhi ji said " do > > not hate paapi hate paap " . In the same way criticize > > astrological > > principles and not astrologers, which I am doing > > since the beginning. > > What is your (and member's) valuable opinion. > > > > Hope to hear your regular msg full with information. > > > > Thanks > > > > Yours > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar > > Krishen Kaul " > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > < Very hard rules are prescribed by our masters > > for the persons who > > > practice Astrology or for those too who want to > > consult an > > > astrologer...... > > > > > > In fact the Internet Astrology or what is written > > in Books or > > > Magazines are the graves of the actual cases > > dealt by the > > > Astrologers that too with half information > > provided which is in > > fact > > > available to the Astrologer at the time of > > consultation. Or those > > are > > > the cases of Famous persons who never consulted an > > astrologer but > > the > > > Astrologer wanted to ride a chart for his own > > interests....> > > > > > > > > > Judging from the criteria that Inder Jit Sahni > > (IMHO the actual > > word > > > should be " Inderjit " but then maybe some > > numerologist as advised > > Shri > > > Sahni to break his name into two!)has laid down > > for astrologers, it > > > is clear that all the jyotish forums and astrology > > groups and > > > jyotisha magazines and TV jyotishis etc. etc. must > > call it a day > > and > > > close their shops! > > > > > > I, however, wonder whether Shri Sahni himself is > > following his > > > own " guidelines " , since he has himself put all > > these guidelines > > (sic!) > > > on " Jyoishgroup " , from which you > > have forwarded > > that > > > post! But again, may be William Shakespeare was > > right when he had > > > said, " I would easier teach twenty people what to > > do than to follow > > > my own advice " ! > > > > > > <What exactly astrology is all about; To relate > > your surroundings > > > changes within the Nature which can be calculated > > Mathematically > > with > > > the Life sciences.? > > > So it is basically a Time science.> > > > > > > Great cry and little wool! In spite of tirllions > > of " Vedic > > > astrolgers " following the " Time Science " being > > around, apart from > > KP- > > > walas and Lal Kitab-walas and Jaimini-walas and > > Mundane-astrology > > > experts, etc. etc. not a single one had predicted > > anything about > > > Mumbai carnage by terrorists! For that matter, no > > disasters or > > > floods or famines etc. are/were ever predicted by > > any jyotishi, in > > > spite of their quibblings about " Brihat Samhita " , > > which they claim > > to > > > be full of such gems! > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Dear Sanatji, Namaskar. Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my court, I would try to respond with all my experience and ability in this regard, shortly. Regds, VBDeshmukh. --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > good. > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > ago for proving > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > attracted towards > astrology like many in this age group. But I > continuously studied it > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > developed my own > software for prediction based on astrological > principles contained in > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > horoscope incorporating > all requisite data required for any prediction > (refer file section). > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > without any > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > combination of > principles may appears to be correct in one > horoscope, but it is not > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > problem then I tried > to look in to it, with different direction, because > of my scientific > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > knowledge. Hence I > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > the problem in > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > correctness of > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > following the same > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > principles, it was > essential to know as to how these principles were > formulated and what > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > After a fresh > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > eye opener. But > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > hobby hence I > continued the analysis in this direction and could > find all basic > information for formulation of these principles and > data used for > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > this venture, it > was decided to bring all these facts to general > public through a > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > Das, Delhi, after > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > original > research and content of the book is revolutionary > and has capacity to > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > Kitna Sahi Kitna > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > the astrologers and > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > such original > work has never been published. Hence they have also > suggested me to > bring this book in English, because of its original > content. Thus my > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > page of the book is > signature picture of our forum) also published from > Delhi in 2005 and > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > of the book in > file section). > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > time as books are > not compilation from some books but original > research based content > hence it take lot of time. > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > (and it is > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > prediction) > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > without digging it > further from all possible direction, which is very > essential for any > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > poke our > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > and so on. We > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > aptitude and so on. > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > our sages were > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > to find the truth > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > (sign, sign lord, > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > were very logical > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > concept, social and > religious background). But at the same time I will > say that present > form of predictive astrological principles is total > bogus, myth, > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > information about the > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > drastically > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > of basic > astrological principles have been changed then how > the end product > may be correct? > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > will like to loose > his business by infusing correct information to new > generation. But > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > by false dreams or > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > most alert them > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > astrology is bogus. > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > can also refer > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > file section. > > Thanks, > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > various points raised > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > hope that they > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > pondering on any point) > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > boosting their > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > question is a gateway > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > knowledge, > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > which you have to > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > , > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv > wrote: > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > Namaskar. > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > ago > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > have no > > further questions. > > Thanx & regds, > > VBDeshmukh > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > Namaskar, > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > logical quotient in > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > you > > > in reverse > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > forecasted about the > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > Certainly not. Because > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > astrologers like me. > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > failures of astrology > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > clients. Though many > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > the > === message truncated === Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not qualify oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science text book writers would have been great scientists. If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding the bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases in this forum for really scientific analysis. What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned astrologers here to answer. Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he should leave this group. Regards Suprakash On Behalf Of vbdeshmukh Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology Dear Sanatji, Namaskar. Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my court, I would try to respond with all my experience and ability in this regard, shortly. Regds, VBDeshmukh. --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > good. > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > ago for proving > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > attracted towards > astrology like many in this age group. But I > continuously studied it > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > developed my own > software for prediction based on astrological > principles contained in > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > horoscope incorporating > all requisite data required for any prediction > (refer file section). > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > without any > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > combination of > principles may appears to be correct in one > horoscope, but it is not > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > problem then I tried > to look in to it, with different direction, because > of my scientific > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > knowledge. Hence I > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > the problem in > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > correctness of > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > following the same > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > principles, it was > essential to know as to how these principles were > formulated and what > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > After a fresh > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > eye opener. But > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > hobby hence I > continued the analysis in this direction and could > find all basic > information for formulation of these principles and > data used for > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > this venture, it > was decided to bring all these facts to general > public through a > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > Das, Delhi, after > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > original > research and content of the book is revolutionary > and has capacity to > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > Kitna Sahi Kitna > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > the astrologers and > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > such original > work has never been published. Hence they have also > suggested me to > bring this book in English, because of its original > content. Thus my > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > page of the book is > signature picture of our forum) also published from > Delhi in 2005 and > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > of the book in > file section). > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > time as books are > not compilation from some books but original > research based content > hence it take lot of time. > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > (and it is > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > prediction) > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > without digging it > further from all possible direction, which is very > essential for any > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > poke our > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > and so on. We > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > aptitude and so on. > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > our sages were > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > to find the truth > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > (sign, sign lord, > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > were very logical > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > concept, social and > religious background). But at the same time I will > say that present > form of predictive astrological principles is total > bogus, myth, > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > information about the > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > drastically > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > of basic > astrological principles have been changed then how > the end product > may be correct? > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > will like to loose > his business by infusing correct information to new > generation. But > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > by false dreams or > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > most alert them > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > astrology is bogus. > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > can also refer > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > file section. > > Thanks, > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > various points raised > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > hope that they > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > pondering on any point) > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > boosting their > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > question is a gateway > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > knowledge, > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > which you have to > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > , > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv > wrote: > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > Namaskar. > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > ago > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > have no > > further questions. > > Thanx & regds, > > VBDeshmukh > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > Namaskar, > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > logical quotient in > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > you > > > in reverse > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > forecasted about the > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > Certainly not. Because > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > astrologers like me. > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > failures of astrology > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > clients. Though many > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > the > === message truncated === Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/ --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 dear suprakash ji do u think this +35 yrs of sanat ji claim has any validity ??or +50 yrs of kaul ji He says as if he is the only brain who invented and asked all this questions ,rather this questions are happening to any novice ,it is as simple as that ,even i asked ,but when u apply a dictum ( what ever is the stream ) it is simply happening so . chinese accupressure ,accupuncture and indian marma points,chakras in yogic philosophy etc science deny it still but it is acting in reality .so astrology and allied sciences also like that .and he has no authority nor exprnce nor knowldge to talk in scintific terms ( same is true with sanskrit illiterate kaul ji he deends on western translations ) >no one has some masala and common sense will not ask this qustions .Unless he is in begining stage in this discipline . All the rest of the claims and their attacks and gate crashing to 1000s of forums which r not assigned for even this discussions is simply showing they r converted into xianity and it is their arrogance rather a sort of xian arrogance mind (as they also thinks it is their duty to convert all even if others blv it or not .And they also depends on weakness of ppl and they also exercise many methods to giv money to treatning to other 3rd class technics to win ppl ).This ppl also not diffrnt frm that Now u arguemnt s u asked ,even i said the need to appoint a diffrnt moderater for going on smooth running of any academic discussion but pls if u think he will come in that way it is simply a wild dream . Ketu in marak stan and its dasa can giv maraka effect is one of the basic lesson in astrology ( which after 100 yrs of total combined lessons and learning they dont know ) then predicting where it can happen only needs ur expertise ,and various ppl has various level of accuracy like in any other streams . How many time i find biggest auto makers withdrw whole lot of production in market because it failed .They r in this line of business for 100s of yrs ,r we calling them frauds ??No rther we respect those discisions and honesty .or did we ask other automakers who has nothing to do with this why the others failed and so it simply proovs u r fruds and cheats . so that is the level of this ppl and their quality or what i can say i dont know suprakash ji regrds prashanth nair PS --His software foolery ( shri sanat ji s claims on his SW ) ==================== i visited once to delhi future point to see some softwares . and i find they devlped prshna maarga software ( a prashna SW) a stream which depends fully on awareness and purity ,learning and intention of astrologer . and after test run i told to the owner hismeslf this will not sell .and they stopped it after some time ,so that is the quality of predictiv SW ( any one can double check it ,may b he dont remebr my name i think some goel or some thing is his name ( a membr frm agrwal community i blv ) And u pls read another foolery claim s of sant ji as he blvs his SW failed and so astrology is not true .Even no scientist s claims computer is yet capable to replace human mind . so who is fraud or fool here ?? , "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh wrote:>> Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not qualify> oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science> text book writers would have been great scientists.> > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding the> bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases in this> forum for really scientific analysis.> > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data)> defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned> astrologers here to answer.> > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he should> leave this group.> > Regards> > Suprakash> > > > > > > On Behalf Of vbdeshmukh> Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM> > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology> > Dear Sanatji,> Namaskar.> Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so> forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my> court, I would try to respond with all my experience> and ability in this regard, shortly.> Regds,> VBDeshmukh.> > --- sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain wrote:> > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji,> > Namaskar,> > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be> > good. > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years> > ago for proving > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also> > attracted towards > > astrology like many in this age group. But I> > continuously studied it > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also> > developed my own > > software for prediction based on astrological> > principles contained in > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain> > horoscope incorporating > > all requisite data required for any prediction> > (refer file section). > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and> > without any > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a> > combination of > > principles may appears to be correct in one> > horoscope, but it is not > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this> > problem then I tried > > to look in to it, with different direction, because> > of my scientific > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this> > knowledge. Hence I > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is> > the problem in > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the> > correctness of > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are> > following the same > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the> > principles, it was > > essential to know as to how these principles were> > formulated and what > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any.> > After a fresh > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an> > eye opener. But > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this> > hobby hence I > > continued the analysis in this direction and could> > find all basic > > information for formulation of these principles and> > data used for > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in> > this venture, it > > was decided to bring all these facts to general> > public through a > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi> > Das, Delhi, after > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that> > original > > research and content of the book is revolutionary> > and has capacity to > > block the present flow. Thus my first book "Jyotish> > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > Galat" published in 2003. It was well accepted by> > the astrologers and > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that> > such original > > work has never been published. Hence they have also> > suggested me to > > bring this book in English, because of its original> > content. Thus my > > second book "Astrology a science or myth" (front> > page of the book is > > signature picture of our forum) also published from> > Delhi in 2005 and > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content> > of the book in > > file section).> > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own> > time as books are > > not compilation from some books but original> > research based content > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum> > (and it is > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of> > prediction) > > always try to divert the direction of discussion,> > without digging it > > further from all possible direction, which is very> > essential for any > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not> > poke our > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion> > and so on. We > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific> > aptitude and so on. > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that> > our sages were > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude> > to find the truth > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles> > (sign, sign lord, > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.)> > were very logical > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge,> > concept, social and > > religious background). But at the same time I will> > say that present > > form of predictive astrological principles is total> > bogus, myth, > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic> > information about the > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been> > drastically > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation> > of basic > > astrological principles have been changed then how> > the end product > > may be correct?> > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer> > will like to loose > > his business by infusing correct information to new> > generation. But > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured> > by false dreams or > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the> > most alert them > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why> > astrology is bogus. > > Thus Now I am on alerting job.> > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You> > can also refer > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in> > file section.> > > > Thanks,> > Yours truly,> > > > Sanat> > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on> > various points raised > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also> > hope that they > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after> > pondering on any point) > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or> > boosting their > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered> > question is a gateway > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your> > knowledge, > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for> > which you have to > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction.> > > > > > ,> > vbdeshmukh deshmukhv@ > > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sanatji,> > > Namaskar.> > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years> > ago> > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that> > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I> > have no> > > further questions.> > > Thanx & regds,> > > VBDeshmukh> > > --- sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ wrote:> > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji,> > > > Namaskar,> > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some> > > > logical quotient in > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach> > you> > > > in reverse > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi.> > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not> > > > forecasted about the > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God.> > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many> > > > astrologers like me. > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the> > > > failures of astrology > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their> > > > clients. Though many > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about> > the> > > === message truncated ===> > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to> http://messenger./invite/> > ---> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Dear Suprakash, Namaskar, Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new member in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my stand or stand of some other members. Yes, you are right that " ….wring few books does not qualify oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you have wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of same matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. If you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the content in file section. Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial information was not correct then how processed principle may be correct. Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward with some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since long. If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may read 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending points in SOA files. So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can prove the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some SOA files and msg. Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh etc. But when a question of prediction came then they can predict anything according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it is wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can pick any previous point or let us start with following point 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed. Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not qualify > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding the > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases in this > forum for really scientific analysis. > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > astrologers here to answer. > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he should > leave this group. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > > > > On Behalf Of vbdeshmukh > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Sanatji, > Namaskar. > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > and ability in this regard, shortly. > Regds, > VBDeshmukh. > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > good. > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > ago for proving > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > attracted towards > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > continuously studied it > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > developed my own > > software for prediction based on astrological > > principles contained in > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > horoscope incorporating > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > (refer file section). > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > without any > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > combination of > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > horoscope, but it is not > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > problem then I tried > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > of my scientific > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > knowledge. Hence I > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > the problem in > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > correctness of > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > following the same > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > principles, it was > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > formulated and what > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > After a fresh > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > eye opener. But > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > hobby hence I > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > find all basic > > information for formulation of these principles and > > data used for > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > this venture, it > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > public through a > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > Das, Delhi, after > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > original > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > and has capacity to > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > the astrologers and > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > such original > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > suggested me to > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > content. Thus my > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > page of the book is > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > Delhi in 2005 and > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > of the book in > > file section). > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > time as books are > > not compilation from some books but original > > research based content > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > (and it is > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > prediction) > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > without digging it > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > essential for any > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > poke our > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > and so on. We > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > aptitude and so on. > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > our sages were > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > to find the truth > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > (sign, sign lord, > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > were very logical > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > concept, social and > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > say that present > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > bogus, myth, > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > information about the > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > drastically > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > of basic > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > the end product > > may be correct? > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > will like to loose > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > generation. But > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > by false dreams or > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > most alert them > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > astrology is bogus. > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > can also refer > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > file section. > > > > Thanks, > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > various points raised > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > hope that they > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > pondering on any point) > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > boosting their > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > question is a gateway > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > knowledge, > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > which you have to > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > , > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > Namaskar. > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > ago > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > have no > > > further questions. > > > Thanx & regds, > > > VBDeshmukh > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > logical quotient in > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > you > > > > in reverse > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > forecasted about the > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > failures of astrology > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > clients. Though many > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > the > > > === message truncated === > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > http://messenger./invite/ > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 dear supraksh this has discussed here many time and was waiting for new one and he knows it his uncle randi is under fire frm every one let him answer to each letter on randi ,why he is not doing it ?? even he cannot proov anything on anything ,even let narlikar pass our test who giv him authority to test astrologers ,do nasa scientists will allow this fraud to test them ,,they will kick his ass and throw him away so dont answer it as it is waist , "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Dear Suprakash,> Namaskar,> Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > suggestion "Better he should leave this group.". You are new member > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my > stand or stand of some other members.> > Yes, you are right that "….wring few books does not qualify> oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science> text book writers would have been great scientists.". But you have > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of same > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. If > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the > content in file section. > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > correct.> Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward with > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since long. > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may read > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth" file or various pending > points in SOA files.> > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can prove > the correctness of astrology. Regarding ". There are many learned> astrologers here to answer." I will like to say that so far not a > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some > SOA files and msg.> > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh etc. > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict anything > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it is > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse.> > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can pick > any previous point or let us start with following point> > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed.> > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion.> > Thanks> Yours truly,> Sanat> > > > , "Suprakash Ghosh" > suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not > qualify> > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > science> > text book writers would have been great scientists.> > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding the> > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases in > this> > forum for really scientific analysis.> > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data)> > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned> > astrologers here to answer.> > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he > should> > leave this group.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of vbdeshmukh> > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM> > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology> > > > Dear Sanatji,> > Namaskar.> > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so> > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my> > court, I would try to respond with all my experience> > and ability in this regard, shortly.> > Regds,> > VBDeshmukh.> > > > --- sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ wrote:> > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be> > > good. > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years> > > ago for proving > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also> > > attracted towards > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I> > > continuously studied it > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also> > > developed my own > > > software for prediction based on astrological> > > principles contained in > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain> > > horoscope incorporating > > > all requisite data required for any prediction> > > (refer file section). > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and> > > without any > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a> > > combination of > > > principles may appears to be correct in one> > > horoscope, but it is not > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this> > > problem then I tried > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because> > > of my scientific > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this> > > knowledge. Hence I > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is> > > the problem in > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the> > > correctness of > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are> > > following the same > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the> > > principles, it was > > > essential to know as to how these principles were> > > formulated and what > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any.> > > After a fresh > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an> > > eye opener. But > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this> > > hobby hence I > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could> > > find all basic > > > information for formulation of these principles and> > > data used for > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in> > > this venture, it > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general> > > public through a > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi> > > Das, Delhi, after > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that> > > original > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary> > > and has capacity to > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book "Jyotish> > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > Galat" published in 2003. It was well accepted by> > > the astrologers and > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that> > > such original > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also> > > suggested me to > > > bring this book in English, because of its original> > > content. Thus my > > > second book "Astrology a science or myth" (front> > > page of the book is > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from> > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content> > > of the book in > > > file section).> > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own> > > time as books are > > > not compilation from some books but original> > > research based content > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum> > > (and it is > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of> > > prediction) > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion,> > > without digging it > > > further from all possible direction, which is very> > > essential for any > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not> > > poke our > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion> > > and so on. We > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific> > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that> > > our sages were > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude> > > to find the truth > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles> > > (sign, sign lord, > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.)> > > were very logical > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge,> > > concept, social and > > > religious background). But at the same time I will> > > say that present > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total> > > bogus, myth, > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic> > > information about the > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been> > > drastically > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation> > > of basic > > > astrological principles have been changed then how> > > the end product > > > may be correct?> > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer> > > will like to loose > > > his business by infusing correct information to new> > > generation. But > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured> > > by false dreams or > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the> > > most alert them > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why> > > astrology is bogus. > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job.> > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You> > > can also refer > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in> > > file section.> > > > > > Thanks,> > > Yours truly,> > > > > > Sanat> > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on> > > various points raised > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also> > > hope that they > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after> > > pondering on any point) > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or> > > boosting their > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered> > > question is a gateway > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your> > > knowledge, > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for> > > which you have to > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction.> > > > > > > > > ,> > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Sanatji,> > > > Namaskar.> > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years> > > ago> > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that> > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I> > > have no> > > > further questions.> > > > Thanx & regds,> > > > VBDeshmukh> > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji,> > > > > Namaskar,> > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some> > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach> > > you> > > > > in reverse > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi.> > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not> > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God.> > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many> > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the> > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their> > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about> > > the> > > > > === message truncated ===> > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to> > http://messenger./invite/> > > > ---> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Dear Sanatji My intention was very clear and for scientific study of astrology. I again request you to submit 15 cases of nonconformance for a particular astrological dictum and we shall try to analyze the charts by both traditional and KP system. It will be a good learning lesson for us all. Please furnish exact time of birth and place data. As you are conducting scientific research for last 25 years hope you are equipped with such data. Regards Suprakash On Behalf Of sanat2221 Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology Dear Suprakash, Namaskar, Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new member in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my stand or stand of some other members. Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you have wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of same matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. If you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the content in file section. Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial information was not correct then how processed principle may be correct. Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward with some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since long. If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may read 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending points in SOA files. So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can prove the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some SOA files and msg. Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh etc. But when a question of prediction came then they can predict anything according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it is wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can pick any previous point or let us start with following point 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed. Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not qualify > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding the > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases in this > forum for really scientific analysis. > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > astrologers here to answer. > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he should > leave this group. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > > > > On Behalf Of vbdeshmukh > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Sanatji, > Namaskar. > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > and ability in this regard, shortly. > Regds, > VBDeshmukh. > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > good. > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > ago for proving > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > attracted towards > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > continuously studied it > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > developed my own > > software for prediction based on astrological > > principles contained in > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > horoscope incorporating > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > (refer file section). > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > without any > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > combination of > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > horoscope, but it is not > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > problem then I tried > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > of my scientific > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > knowledge. Hence I > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > the problem in > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > correctness of > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > following the same > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > principles, it was > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > formulated and what > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > After a fresh > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > eye opener. But > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > hobby hence I > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > find all basic > > information for formulation of these principles and > > data used for > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > this venture, it > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > public through a > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > Das, Delhi, after > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > original > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > and has capacity to > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > the astrologers and > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > such original > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > suggested me to > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > content. Thus my > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > page of the book is > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > Delhi in 2005 and > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > of the book in > > file section). > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > time as books are > > not compilation from some books but original > > research based content > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > (and it is > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > prediction) > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > without digging it > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > essential for any > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > poke our > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > and so on. We > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > aptitude and so on. > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > our sages were > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > to find the truth > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > (sign, sign lord, > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > were very logical > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > concept, social and > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > say that present > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > bogus, myth, > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > information about the > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > drastically > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > of basic > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > the end product > > may be correct? > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > will like to loose > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > generation. But > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > by false dreams or > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > most alert them > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > astrology is bogus. > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > can also refer > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > file section. > > > > Thanks, > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > various points raised > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > hope that they > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > pondering on any point) > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > boosting their > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > question is a gateway > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > knowledge, > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > which you have to > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > , > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > Namaskar. > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > ago > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > have no > > > further questions. > > > Thanx & regds, > > > VBDeshmukh > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > logical quotient in > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > you > > > > in reverse > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > forecasted about the > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > failures of astrology > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > clients. Though many > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > the > > > === message truncated === > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > http://messenger./invite/ > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Dear Sanatji Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed? My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any means. Regards Suprakash On Behalf Of sanat2221 Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology Dear Suprakash, Namaskar, Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new member in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my stand or stand of some other members. Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you have wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of same matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. If you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the content in file section. Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial information was not correct then how processed principle may be correct. Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward with some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since long. If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may read 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending points in SOA files. So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can prove the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some SOA files and msg. Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh etc. But when a question of prediction came then they can predict anything according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it is wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can pick any previous point or let us start with following point 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed. Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not qualify > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding the > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases in this > forum for really scientific analysis. > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > astrologers here to answer. > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he should > leave this group. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > > > > On Behalf Of vbdeshmukh > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Sanatji, > Namaskar. > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > and ability in this regard, shortly. > Regds, > VBDeshmukh. > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > good. > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > ago for proving > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > attracted towards > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > continuously studied it > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > developed my own > > software for prediction based on astrological > > principles contained in > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > horoscope incorporating > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > (refer file section). > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > without any > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > combination of > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > horoscope, but it is not > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > problem then I tried > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > of my scientific > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > knowledge. Hence I > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > the problem in > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > correctness of > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > following the same > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > principles, it was > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > formulated and what > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > After a fresh > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > eye opener. But > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > hobby hence I > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > find all basic > > information for formulation of these principles and > > data used for > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > this venture, it > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > public through a > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > Das, Delhi, after > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > original > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > and has capacity to > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > the astrologers and > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > such original > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > suggested me to > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > content. Thus my > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > page of the book is > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > Delhi in 2005 and > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > of the book in > > file section). > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > time as books are > > not compilation from some books but original > > research based content > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > (and it is > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > prediction) > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > without digging it > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > essential for any > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > poke our > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > and so on. We > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > aptitude and so on. > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > our sages were > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > to find the truth > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > (sign, sign lord, > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > were very logical > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > concept, social and > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > say that present > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > bogus, myth, > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > information about the > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > drastically > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > of basic > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > the end product > > may be correct? > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > will like to loose > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > generation. But > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > by false dreams or > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > most alert them > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > astrology is bogus. > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > can also refer > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > file section. > > > > Thanks, > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > various points raised > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > hope that they > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > pondering on any point) > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > boosting their > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > question is a gateway > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > knowledge, > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > which you have to > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > , > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > Namaskar. > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > ago > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > have no > > > further questions. > > > Thanx & regds, > > > VBDeshmukh > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > logical quotient in > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > you > > > > in reverse > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > forecasted about the > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > failures of astrology > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > clients. Though many > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > the > > > === message truncated === > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > http://messenger./invite/ > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Dear Ghosh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of views further, so that we may have systematic interaction. SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed? GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any means. SK – If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are worried about the future and want to know with some predictive principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do not worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course. Yours truly, Sanat , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > Dear Sanatji > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed? > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any > means. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Suprakash, > Namaskar, > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new member > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my > stand or stand of some other members. > > Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science > text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you have > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of same > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. If > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the > content in file section. > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > correct. > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward with > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since long. > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may read > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending > points in SOA files. > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can prove > the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned > astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some > SOA files and msg. > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh etc. > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict anything > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it is > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can pick > any previous point or let us start with following point > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed. > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. > > Thanks > Yours truly, > Sanat > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not > qualify > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > science > > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding the > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases in > this > > forum for really scientific analysis. > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > > astrologers here to answer. > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he > should > > leave this group. > > > > Regards > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of vbdeshmukh > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > Namaskar. > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > > and ability in this regard, shortly. > > Regds, > > VBDeshmukh. > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > > Namaskar, > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > > good. > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > > ago for proving > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > > attracted towards > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > > continuously studied it > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > > developed my own > > > software for prediction based on astrological > > > principles contained in > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > > horoscope incorporating > > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > > (refer file section). > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > > without any > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > > combination of > > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > > problem then I tried > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > > of my scientific > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > > the problem in > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > > correctness of > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > > following the same > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > > principles, it was > > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > > formulated and what > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > > After a fresh > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > > eye opener. But > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > > hobby hence I > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > > find all basic > > > information for formulation of these principles and > > > data used for > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > > this venture, it > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > > public through a > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > > original > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > > and has capacity to > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > > the astrologers and > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > > such original > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > > suggested me to > > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > > content. Thus my > > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > > page of the book is > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > > of the book in > > > file section). > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > > time as books are > > > not compilation from some books but original > > > research based content > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > > (and it is > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > > prediction) > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > > without digging it > > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > > essential for any > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > > poke our > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > > and so on. We > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > > our sages were > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > > to find the truth > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > > were very logical > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > > concept, social and > > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > > say that present > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > > bogus, myth, > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > > information about the > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > > drastically > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > > of basic > > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > > the end product > > > may be correct? > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > > will like to loose > > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > > generation. But > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > > by false dreams or > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > > most alert them > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > > astrology is bogus. > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > > can also refer > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > > file section. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > > various points raised > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > > hope that they > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > > pondering on any point) > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > > boosting their > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > > question is a gateway > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > > knowledge, > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > > which you have to > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > > > > , > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > Namaskar. > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > > ago > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > > have no > > > > further questions. > > > > Thanx & regds, > > > > VBDeshmukh > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > > you > > > > > in reverse > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > > the > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > http://messenger./invite/ > > > > --- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Sanatji Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and inability of seeing the future. Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that astrology subject have any applied utility. Regards Suprakash On Behalf Of sanat2221 Monday, December 08, 2008 11:34 PM Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology Dear Ghosh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of views further, so that we may have systematic interaction. SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed? GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any means. SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are worried about the future and want to know with some predictive principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do not worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course. Yours truly, Sanat , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > Dear Sanatji > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed? > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any > means. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Suprakash, > Namaskar, > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new member > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my > stand or stand of some other members. > > Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science > text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you have > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of same > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. If > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the > content in file section. > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > correct. > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward with > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since long. > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may read > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending > points in SOA files. > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can prove > the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned > astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some > SOA files and msg. > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh etc. > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict anything > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it is > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can pick > any previous point or let us start with following point > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed. > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. > > Thanks > Yours truly, > Sanat > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not > qualify > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > science > > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding the > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases in > this > > forum for really scientific analysis. > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > > astrologers here to answer. > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he > should > > leave this group. > > > > Regards > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of vbdeshmukh > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > Namaskar. > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > > and ability in this regard, shortly. > > Regds, > > VBDeshmukh. > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > > Namaskar, > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > > good. > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > > ago for proving > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > > attracted towards > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > > continuously studied it > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > > developed my own > > > software for prediction based on astrological > > > principles contained in > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > > horoscope incorporating > > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > > (refer file section). > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > > without any > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > > combination of > > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > > problem then I tried > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > > of my scientific > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > > the problem in > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > > correctness of > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > > following the same > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > > principles, it was > > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > > formulated and what > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > > After a fresh > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > > eye opener. But > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > > hobby hence I > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > > find all basic > > > information for formulation of these principles and > > > data used for > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > > this venture, it > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > > public through a > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > > original > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > > and has capacity to > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > > the astrologers and > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > > such original > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > > suggested me to > > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > > content. Thus my > > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > > page of the book is > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > > of the book in > > > file section). > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > > time as books are > > > not compilation from some books but original > > > research based content > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > > (and it is > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > > prediction) > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > > without digging it > > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > > essential for any > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > > poke our > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > > and so on. We > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > > our sages were > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > > to find the truth > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > > were very logical > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > > concept, social and > > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > > say that present > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > > bogus, myth, > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > > information about the > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > > drastically > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > > of basic > > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > > the end product > > > may be correct? > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > > will like to loose > > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > > generation. But > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > > by false dreams or > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > > most alert them > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > > astrology is bogus. > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > > can also refer > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > > file section. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > > various points raised > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > > hope that they > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > > pondering on any point) > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > > boosting their > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > > question is a gateway > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > > knowledge, > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > > which you have to > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > > > > , > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > Namaskar. > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > > ago > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > > have no > > > > further questions. > > > > Thanx & regds, > > > > VBDeshmukh > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > > you > > > > > in reverse > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > > the > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > http://messenger./invite/ > > > > --- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Sanatji Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and inability of seeing the future. Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that astrology subject don't have any applied utility. Regards Suprakash On Behalf Of sanat2221 Monday, December 08, 2008 11:34 PM Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology Dear Ghosh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of views further, so that we may have systematic interaction. SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed? GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any means. SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are worried about the future and want to know with some predictive principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do not worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course. Yours truly, Sanat , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > Dear Sanatji > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed? > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any > means. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Suprakash, > Namaskar, > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new member > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my > stand or stand of some other members. > > Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all science > text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you have > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of same > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. If > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the > content in file section. > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > correct. > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward with > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since long. > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may read > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending > points in SOA files. > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can prove > the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned > astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some > SOA files and msg. > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh etc. > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict anything > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it is > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can pick > any previous point or let us start with following point > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed. > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. > > Thanks > Yours truly, > Sanat > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not > qualify > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > science > > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding the > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases in > this > > forum for really scientific analysis. > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > > astrologers here to answer. > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he > should > > leave this group. > > > > Regards > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of vbdeshmukh > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > Namaskar. > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > > and ability in this regard, shortly. > > Regds, > > VBDeshmukh. > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > > Namaskar, > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > > good. > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > > ago for proving > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > > attracted towards > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > > continuously studied it > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > > developed my own > > > software for prediction based on astrological > > > principles contained in > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > > horoscope incorporating > > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > > (refer file section). > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > > without any > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > > combination of > > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > > problem then I tried > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > > of my scientific > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > > the problem in > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > > correctness of > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > > following the same > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > > principles, it was > > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > > formulated and what > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > > After a fresh > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > > eye opener. But > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > > hobby hence I > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > > find all basic > > > information for formulation of these principles and > > > data used for > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > > this venture, it > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > > public through a > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > > original > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > > and has capacity to > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > > the astrologers and > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > > such original > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > > suggested me to > > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > > content. Thus my > > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > > page of the book is > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > > of the book in > > > file section). > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > > time as books are > > > not compilation from some books but original > > > research based content > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > > (and it is > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > > prediction) > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > > without digging it > > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > > essential for any > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > > poke our > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > > and so on. We > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > > our sages were > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > > to find the truth > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > > were very logical > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > > concept, social and > > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > > say that present > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > > bogus, myth, > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > > information about the > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > > drastically > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > > of basic > > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > > the end product > > > may be correct? > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > > will like to loose > > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > > generation. But > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > > by false dreams or > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > > most alert them > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > > astrology is bogus. > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > > can also refer > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > > file section. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > > various points raised > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > > hope that they > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > > pondering on any point) > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > > boosting their > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > > question is a gateway > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > > knowledge, > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > > which you have to > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > > > > , > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > Namaskar. > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > > ago > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > > have no > > > > further questions. > > > > Thanx & regds, > > > > VBDeshmukh > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > > you > > > > > in reverse > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > > the > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > http://messenger./invite/ > > > > --- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Dear Ghosh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views further and merging second msg also. 1 SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed? GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any means. SK – If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are worried about the future and want to know with some predictive principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. Ghosh Ji - Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and inability of seeing the future. Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that astrology subject don't have any applied utility. SK - Yes, I agree with your views but I am not agree with your views `Destiny can not be altered` and I will not ask you to change your views without knowledge. But will you support your present stand and like to teach innocent persons who are being cheated by the astrologers in the cover up of correcting future with the help of Gem, Offering for Rahu or Saturn etc., Vaastu, Numerology, Muhurt, Horoscope matching, Mangali, Lal Kitab etc. etc. and inform them that astrology do not have any applied utility because `Destiny can not be altered'. Even by this you will serve and save the society including new generation to some extent. 2 – Link – So called correct prediction of Mumbai blast by Sh Kanak Ji. SK - May I ask that what is the difference between tossing of coin for selecting one option out of 2 (head and tail) and selecting one option out of 249 (which is only a s.no. of table of Dasha – antardasha (lord and sub lord). Ghosh Ji - There is a definite theory behind this 249 system. It is surprising that after 35 years of astro research you don't know it !! SK – So far I know that 249 number represents the combination of Lord and Sub lord in KP system. These combination is result of minor split of span of 27 constellation in the ratio of duration of Dasha and antardasha which is based on constellation, which I already referred in my earlier msg. Thus 249 number is just a s.no. prepared on the basis of replica of Vinshottary dasha. If these 249 number is some thing related to magical number with some definite theory then please inform me. I like our interaction and it is very systematic and academic. Please do not take any remark as personal. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat PS : Any member may join our interaction from any stage and he can share his views. , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > Sanatji > > Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and > inability of seeing the future. > > Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that > astrology subject have any applied utility. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > Monday, December 08, 2008 11:34 PM > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of views > further, so that we may have systematic interaction. > > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed? > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be > altered by any > means. > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. > > Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do not > worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course. > > Yours truly, > Sanat > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sanatji > > > > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > changed? > > > > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered > by any > > means. > > > > Regards > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > Dear Suprakash, > > Namaskar, > > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > > suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new member > > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my > > stand or stand of some other members. > > > > Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > science > > text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you have > > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all > > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of > same > > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. > If > > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the > > content in file section. > > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of > > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort > > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > > correct. > > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward > with > > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since > long. > > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may > read > > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending > > points in SOA files. > > > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that > > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and > > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the > > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has > > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can > prove > > the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned > > astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a > > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a > > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some > > SOA files and msg. > > > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook > > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from > > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, > > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak > > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh > etc. > > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict > anything > > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of > > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it > is > > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. > > > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can > pick > > any previous point or let us start with following point > > > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed. > > > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. > > > > Thanks > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not > > qualify > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > science > > > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding > the > > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases > in > > this > > > forum for really scientific analysis. > > > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) > > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > > > astrologers here to answer. > > > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he > > should > > > leave this group. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > vbdeshmukh > > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > Namaskar. > > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > > > and ability in this regard, shortly. > > > Regds, > > > VBDeshmukh. > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > > > good. > > > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > > > ago for proving > > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > > > attracted towards > > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > > > continuously studied it > > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > > > developed my own > > > > software for prediction based on astrological > > > > principles contained in > > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > > > horoscope incorporating > > > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > > > (refer file section). > > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > > > without any > > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > > > combination of > > > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > > > problem then I tried > > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > > > of my scientific > > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > > > the problem in > > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > > > correctness of > > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > > > following the same > > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > > > principles, it was > > > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > > > formulated and what > > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > > > After a fresh > > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > > > eye opener. But > > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > > > hobby hence I > > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > > > find all basic > > > > information for formulation of these principles and > > > > data used for > > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > > > this venture, it > > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > > > public through a > > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > > > original > > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > > > and has capacity to > > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > > > the astrologers and > > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > > > such original > > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > > > suggested me to > > > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > > > content. Thus my > > > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > > > page of the book is > > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > > > of the book in > > > > file section). > > > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > > > time as books are > > > > not compilation from some books but original > > > > research based content > > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > > > (and it is > > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > > > prediction) > > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > > > without digging it > > > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > > > essential for any > > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > > > poke our > > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > > > and so on. We > > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > > > our sages were > > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > > > to find the truth > > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > > > were very logical > > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > > > concept, social and > > > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > > > say that present > > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > > > bogus, myth, > > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > > > information about the > > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > > > drastically > > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > > > of basic > > > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > > > the end product > > > > may be correct? > > > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > > > will like to loose > > > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > > > generation. But > > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > > > by false dreams or > > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > > > most alert them > > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > > > astrology is bogus. > > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > > > can also refer > > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > > > file section. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > > > various points raised > > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > > > hope that they > > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > > > pondering on any point) > > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > > > boosting their > > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > > > question is a gateway > > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > > > knowledge, > > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > > > which you have to > > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > > > ago > > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > > > have no > > > > > further questions. > > > > > Thanx & regds, > > > > > VBDeshmukh > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > > > you > > > > > > in reverse > > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > > > the > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > http://messenger./invite/ > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 There is a difference between prediction by tossing a coin and prediction by 249 system. By tossing a coin, you are always 50% right or wrong for 'Yes' or 'No' type of answer. 249 system is not like this. You can also predict a date of happening theoretically to the precision of seconds. Take the case of Kanakji's prediction....the probability of arriving at so close a date is tremendously high and never comparable with tossing of a coin. It is not possible to describe the 249 method in details in this forum. Better you go through the system deeply ..at least you spend a year to get the essence of the system. I suggest you to read the 'Horary Astrology' book written by K.S. krishnamurtiji, where you will find astounding prediction examples based on the theory. Don't stop after only reading..try the methods yourself and then only you will come to a conclusion. That is called systematic investigation. (I have not used the term 'scientific' as science is always wrong in describing reality till today.) Regards Suprakash On Behalf Of sanat2221 Friday, December 12, 2008 10:59 PM Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology Dear Ghosh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views further and merging second msg also. 1 SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed? GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any means. SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are worried about the future and want to know with some predictive principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. Ghosh Ji - Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and inability of seeing the future. Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that astrology subject don't have any applied utility. SK - Yes, I agree with your views but I am not agree with your views `Destiny can not be altered` and I will not ask you to change your views without knowledge. But will you support your present stand and like to teach innocent persons who are being cheated by the astrologers in the cover up of correcting future with the help of Gem, Offering for Rahu or Saturn etc., Vaastu, Numerology, Muhurt, Horoscope matching, Mangali, Lal Kitab etc. etc. and inform them that astrology do not have any applied utility because `Destiny can not be altered'. Even by this you will serve and save the society including new generation to some extent. 2 - Link - So called correct prediction of Mumbai blast by Sh Kanak Ji. SK - May I ask that what is the difference between tossing of coin for selecting one option out of 2 (head and tail) and selecting one option out of 249 (which is only a s.no. of table of Dasha - antardasha (lord and sub lord). Ghosh Ji - There is a definite theory behind this 249 system. It is surprising that after 35 years of astro research you don't know it !! SK - So far I know that 249 number represents the combination of Lord and Sub lord in KP system. These combination is result of minor split of span of 27 constellation in the ratio of duration of Dasha and antardasha which is based on constellation, which I already referred in my earlier msg. Thus 249 number is just a s.no. prepared on the basis of replica of Vinshottary dasha. If these 249 number is some thing related to magical number with some definite theory then please inform me. I like our interaction and it is very systematic and academic. Please do not take any remark as personal. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat PS : Any member may join our interaction from any stage and he can share his views. , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > Sanatji > > Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and > inability of seeing the future. > > Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that > astrology subject have any applied utility. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > Monday, December 08, 2008 11:34 PM > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of views > further, so that we may have systematic interaction. > > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed? > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be > altered by any > means. > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. > > Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do not > worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course. > > Yours truly, > Sanat > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sanatji > > > > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > changed? > > > > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered > by any > > means. > > > > Regards > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > Dear Suprakash, > > Namaskar, > > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > > suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new member > > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my > > stand or stand of some other members. > > > > Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > science > > text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you have > > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all > > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of > same > > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. > If > > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the > > content in file section. > > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of > > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort > > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > > correct. > > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward > with > > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since > long. > > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may > read > > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending > > points in SOA files. > > > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that > > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and > > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the > > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has > > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can > prove > > the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned > > astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a > > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a > > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some > > SOA files and msg. > > > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook > > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from > > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, > > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak > > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh > etc. > > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict > anything > > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of > > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it > is > > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. > > > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can > pick > > any previous point or let us start with following point > > > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed. > > > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. > > > > Thanks > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not > > qualify > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > science > > > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding > the > > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases > in > > this > > > forum for really scientific analysis. > > > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) > > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > > > astrologers here to answer. > > > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he > > should > > > leave this group. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > vbdeshmukh > > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > Namaskar. > > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > > > and ability in this regard, shortly. > > > Regds, > > > VBDeshmukh. > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > > > good. > > > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > > > ago for proving > > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > > > attracted towards > > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > > > continuously studied it > > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > > > developed my own > > > > software for prediction based on astrological > > > > principles contained in > > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > > > horoscope incorporating > > > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > > > (refer file section). > > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > > > without any > > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > > > combination of > > > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > > > problem then I tried > > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > > > of my scientific > > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > > > the problem in > > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > > > correctness of > > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > > > following the same > > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > > > principles, it was > > > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > > > formulated and what > > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > > > After a fresh > > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > > > eye opener. But > > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > > > hobby hence I > > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > > > find all basic > > > > information for formulation of these principles and > > > > data used for > > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > > > this venture, it > > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > > > public through a > > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > > > original > > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > > > and has capacity to > > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > > > the astrologers and > > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > > > such original > > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > > > suggested me to > > > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > > > content. Thus my > > > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > > > page of the book is > > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > > > of the book in > > > > file section). > > > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > > > time as books are > > > > not compilation from some books but original > > > > research based content > > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > > > (and it is > > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > > > prediction) > > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > > > without digging it > > > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > > > essential for any > > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > > > poke our > > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > > > and so on. We > > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > > > our sages were > > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > > > to find the truth > > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > > > were very logical > > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > > > concept, social and > > > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > > > say that present > > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > > > bogus, myth, > > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > > > information about the > > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > > > drastically > > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > > > of basic > > > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > > > the end product > > > > may be correct? > > > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > > > will like to loose > > > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > > > generation. But > > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > > > by false dreams or > > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > > > most alert them > > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > > > astrology is bogus. > > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > > > can also refer > > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > > > file section. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > > > various points raised > > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > > > hope that they > > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > > > pondering on any point) > > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > > > boosting their > > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > > > question is a gateway > > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > > > knowledge, > > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > > > which you have to > > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > > > ago > > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > > > have no > > > > > further questions. > > > > > Thanx & regds, > > > > > VBDeshmukh > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > > > you > > > > > > in reverse > > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > > > the > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > http://messenger./invite/ > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 There is a difference between prediction by tossing a coin and prediction by 249 system. By tossing a coin, you are always 50% right or wrong for 'Yes' or 'No' type of answer. 249 system is not like this. You can also predict a date of happening theoretically to the precision of seconds. Take the case of Kanakji's prediction....the probability of arriving at so close a date is tremendously low and never comparable with tossing of a coin. It is not possible to describe the 249 method in details in this forum. Better you go through the system deeply ..at least you spend a year to get the essence of the system. I suggest you to read the 'Horary Astrology' book written by K.S. krishnamurtiji, where you will find astounding prediction examples based on the theory. Don't stop after only reading..try the methods yourself and then only you will come to a conclusion. That is called systematic investigation. (I have not used the term 'scientific' as science is always wrong in describing reality till today.) Regards Suprakash On Behalf Of sanat2221 Friday, December 12, 2008 10:59 PM Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology Dear Ghosh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views further and merging second msg also. 1 SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be changed? GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered by any means. SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are worried about the future and want to know with some predictive principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. Ghosh Ji - Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and inability of seeing the future. Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that astrology subject don't have any applied utility. SK - Yes, I agree with your views but I am not agree with your views `Destiny can not be altered` and I will not ask you to change your views without knowledge. But will you support your present stand and like to teach innocent persons who are being cheated by the astrologers in the cover up of correcting future with the help of Gem, Offering for Rahu or Saturn etc., Vaastu, Numerology, Muhurt, Horoscope matching, Mangali, Lal Kitab etc. etc. and inform them that astrology do not have any applied utility because `Destiny can not be altered'. Even by this you will serve and save the society including new generation to some extent. 2 - Link - So called correct prediction of Mumbai blast by Sh Kanak Ji. SK - May I ask that what is the difference between tossing of coin for selecting one option out of 2 (head and tail) and selecting one option out of 249 (which is only a s.no. of table of Dasha - antardasha (lord and sub lord). Ghosh Ji - There is a definite theory behind this 249 system. It is surprising that after 35 years of astro research you don't know it !! SK - So far I know that 249 number represents the combination of Lord and Sub lord in KP system. These combination is result of minor split of span of 27 constellation in the ratio of duration of Dasha and antardasha which is based on constellation, which I already referred in my earlier msg. Thus 249 number is just a s.no. prepared on the basis of replica of Vinshottary dasha. If these 249 number is some thing related to magical number with some definite theory then please inform me. I like our interaction and it is very systematic and academic. Please do not take any remark as personal. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat PS : Any member may join our interaction from any stage and he can share his views. , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > Sanatji > > Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and > inability of seeing the future. > > Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that > astrology subject have any applied utility. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > Monday, December 08, 2008 11:34 PM > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of views > further, so that we may have systematic interaction. > > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed? > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be > altered by any > means. > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. > > Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do not > worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course. > > Yours truly, > Sanat > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sanatji > > > > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > changed? > > > > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered > by any > > means. > > > > Regards > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > Dear Suprakash, > > Namaskar, > > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > > suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new member > > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know my > > stand or stand of some other members. > > > > Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > science > > text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you have > > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all > > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of > same > > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. > If > > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the > > content in file section. > > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of > > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what sort > > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > > correct. > > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward > with > > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since > long. > > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may > read > > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending > > points in SOA files. > > > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that > > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers and > > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about the > > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has > > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can > prove > > the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned > > astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a > > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on a > > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer some > > SOA files and msg. > > > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by hook > > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right from > > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, > > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak > > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh > etc. > > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict > anything > > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status of > > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it > is > > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. > > > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can > pick > > any previous point or let us start with following point > > > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed. > > > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. > > > > Thanks > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not > > qualify > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > science > > > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding > the > > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases > in > > this > > > forum for really scientific analysis. > > > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB data) > > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > > > astrologers here to answer. > > > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he > > should > > > leave this group. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > vbdeshmukh > > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > Namaskar. > > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > > > and ability in this regard, shortly. > > > Regds, > > > VBDeshmukh. > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > > > good. > > > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > > > ago for proving > > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > > > attracted towards > > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > > > continuously studied it > > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > > > developed my own > > > > software for prediction based on astrological > > > > principles contained in > > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > > > horoscope incorporating > > > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > > > (refer file section). > > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > > > without any > > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > > > combination of > > > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > > > problem then I tried > > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > > > of my scientific > > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > > > the problem in > > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > > > correctness of > > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > > > following the same > > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > > > principles, it was > > > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > > > formulated and what > > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > > > After a fresh > > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > > > eye opener. But > > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > > > hobby hence I > > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > > > find all basic > > > > information for formulation of these principles and > > > > data used for > > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > > > this venture, it > > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > > > public through a > > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > > > original > > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > > > and has capacity to > > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > > > the astrologers and > > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > > > such original > > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > > > suggested me to > > > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > > > content. Thus my > > > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > > > page of the book is > > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > > > of the book in > > > > file section). > > > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > > > time as books are > > > > not compilation from some books but original > > > > research based content > > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > > > (and it is > > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > > > prediction) > > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > > > without digging it > > > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > > > essential for any > > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > > > poke our > > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > > > and so on. We > > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > > > our sages were > > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > > > to find the truth > > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > > > were very logical > > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > > > concept, social and > > > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > > > say that present > > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > > > bogus, myth, > > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > > > information about the > > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > > > drastically > > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > > > of basic > > > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > > > the end product > > > > may be correct? > > > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > > > will like to loose > > > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > > > generation. But > > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > > > by false dreams or > > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > > > most alert them > > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > > > astrology is bogus. > > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > > > can also refer > > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > > > file section. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > > > various points raised > > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > > > hope that they > > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > > > pondering on any point) > > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > > > boosting their > > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > > > question is a gateway > > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > > > knowledge, > > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > > > which you have to > > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > > > ago > > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > > > have no > > > > > further questions. > > > > > Thanx & regds, > > > > > VBDeshmukh > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > > > you > > > > > > in reverse > > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > > > the > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > http://messenger./invite/ > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Dear Ghosh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views further. You have not replied on first point hence I can presume that henceforth you will teach innocent persons who are being cheated by the astrologers in the cover up of correcting future. Regarding 2nd point you have not clarified on any method out of 249 bifurcation of zodiac. Do you think I have not studied all these methods? If these are not the combination of lord and sublord then why are you not explaining? Moreover you have not logically replied on my stand " Do you think that if 100 computers may be asked to generate random number for concluding about any incident (say Mumbai attack or any other incident) at a time or at different time then all computers will generate same number for same prediction. " In view of this it is clear that socalled prediction by Sh. Kanak ji is only a fluke and there is no logic. If you are not in a position to answer then you can very well drop this point. But even then I hope you will ponder in this direction. In your another msg you have stated " If scientists can call a " string " science " , what is wrong with Rahu & Ketu ????????? " . But I am not convinced with your stand. Because science is a continuous digging of information for improving the knowledge of human civilization. Hence definitely new information will override old knowledge. Thus if 2000 years ago fire was being lit with the help of rubbing of wooden piece (refer Rigved) then now we have improved it to lighter and so on. Thus rubbing of wooden piece was also science and lighter is modern science. Even then there is sufficient scope for future improvement and that will be future science. So I have no objection with Rahu Ketu. But before we start this new point. I will like to know about your views on Rahu Ketu; and according to you what are Rahu Ketu. After hearing from you I will come out with my point. Thanks for sharing your views. Remember that nothing is personal and it is only academic exchange of views. Yours truly, Sanat , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > > > > There is a difference between prediction by tossing a coin and > prediction by 249 system. > > By tossing a coin, you are always 50% right or wrong for 'Yes' or 'No' > type of answer. > > 249 system is not like this. You can also predict a date of happening > theoretically to the precision of seconds. Take the case of Kanakji's > prediction....the probability of arriving at so close a date is > tremendously low and never comparable with tossing of a coin. > > It is not possible to describe the 249 method in details in this forum. > Better you go through the system deeply ..at least you spend a year to > get the essence of the system. I suggest you to read the 'Horary > Astrology' book written by K.S. krishnamurtiji, where you will find > astounding prediction examples based on the theory. > > Don't stop after only reading..try the methods yourself and then only > you will come to a conclusion. That is called systematic investigation. > (I have not used the term 'scientific' as science is always wrong in > describing reality till today.) > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > Friday, December 12, 2008 10:59 PM > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views > further and merging second msg also. > > 1 > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed? > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be > altered by any > means. > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. > Ghosh Ji - Worrying about the future is human nature due to its > weakness and > inability of seeing the future. Destiny can not be altered. In that > sense I agree with you that astrology subject don't have any applied > utility. > > SK - Yes, I agree with your views but I am not agree with your > views `Destiny can not be altered` and I will not ask you to change > your views without knowledge. But will you support your present stand > and like to teach innocent persons who are being cheated by the > astrologers in the cover up of correcting future with the help of > Gem, Offering for Rahu or Saturn etc., Vaastu, Numerology, Muhurt, > Horoscope matching, Mangali, Lal Kitab etc. etc. and inform them that > astrology do not have any applied utility because `Destiny can not be > altered'. Even by this you will serve and save the society including > new generation to some extent. > > 2 - Link - So called correct prediction of Mumbai blast by Sh Kanak > Ji. > > SK - May I ask that what is the difference between tossing of coin > for selecting one option out of 2 (head and tail) and selecting one > option out of 249 (which is only a s.no. of table of Dasha - > antardasha (lord and sub lord). > > Ghosh Ji - There is a definite theory behind this 249 system. It is > surprising that > after 35 years of astro research you don't know it !! > > SK - So far I know that 249 number represents the combination of Lord > and Sub lord in KP system. These combination is result of minor split > of span of 27 constellation in the ratio of duration of Dasha and > antardasha which is based on constellation, which I already referred > in my earlier msg. Thus 249 number is just a s.no. prepared on the > basis of replica of Vinshottary dasha. If these 249 number is some > thing related to magical number with some definite theory then please > inform me. > > I like our interaction and it is very systematic and academic. Please > do not take any remark as personal. > > Thanks > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > PS : Any member may join our interaction from any stage and he can > share his views. > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > Sanatji > > > > Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and > > inability of seeing the future. > > > > Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that > > astrology subject have any applied utility. > > > > Regards > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > > Monday, December 08, 2008 11:34 PM > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of views > > further, so that we may have systematic interaction. > > > > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > changed? > > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't > be > > altered by any > > means. > > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we > are > > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the > use > > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your > wish. > > > > Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do not > > worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course. > > > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanatji > > > > > > > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > > changed? > > > > > > > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered > > by any > > > means. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > > > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM > > > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > > > Dear Suprakash, > > > Namaskar, > > > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > > > suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new > member > > > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know > my > > > stand or stand of some other members. > > > > > > Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > science > > > text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you > have > > > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all > > > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > > > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of > > same > > > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. > > If > > > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the > > > content in file section. > > > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of > > > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what > sort > > > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > > > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > > > correct. > > > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward > > with > > > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > > > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since > > long. > > > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may > > read > > > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending > > > points in SOA files. > > > > > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that > > > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers > and > > > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about > the > > > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has > > > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can > > prove > > > the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned > > > astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a > > > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on > a > > > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer > some > > > SOA files and msg. > > > > > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by > hook > > > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > > > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right > from > > > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, > > > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak > > > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh > > etc. > > > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict > > anything > > > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status > of > > > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it > > is > > > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > > > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > > > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > > > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. > > > > > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can > > pick > > > any previous point or let us start with following point > > > > > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > changed. > > > > > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Yours truly, > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not > > > qualify > > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > > science > > > > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > > > > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding > > the > > > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases > > in > > > this > > > > forum for really scientific analysis. > > > > > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB > data) > > > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > > > > astrologers here to answer. > > > > > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he > > > should > > > > leave this group. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > > vbdeshmukh > > > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of > Astrology > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > Namaskar. > > > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > > > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > > > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > > > > and ability in this regard, shortly. > > > > Regds, > > > > VBDeshmukh. > > > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > > > > good. > > > > > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > > > > ago for proving > > > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > > > > attracted towards > > > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > > > > continuously studied it > > > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > > > > developed my own > > > > > software for prediction based on astrological > > > > > principles contained in > > > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > > > > horoscope incorporating > > > > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > > > > (refer file section). > > > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > > > > without any > > > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > > > > combination of > > > > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > > > > problem then I tried > > > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > > > > of my scientific > > > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > > > > the problem in > > > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > > > > correctness of > > > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > > > > following the same > > > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > > > > principles, it was > > > > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > > > > formulated and what > > > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > > > > After a fresh > > > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > > > > eye opener. But > > > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > > > > hobby hence I > > > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > > > > find all basic > > > > > information for formulation of these principles and > > > > > data used for > > > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > > > > this venture, it > > > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > > > > public through a > > > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > > > > original > > > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > > > > and has capacity to > > > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > > > > the astrologers and > > > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > > > > such original > > > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > > > > suggested me to > > > > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > > > > content. Thus my > > > > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > > > > page of the book is > > > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > > > > of the book in > > > > > file section). > > > > > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > > > > time as books are > > > > > not compilation from some books but original > > > > > research based content > > > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > > > > (and it is > > > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > > > > prediction) > > > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > > > > without digging it > > > > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > > > > essential for any > > > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > > > > poke our > > > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > > > > and so on. We > > > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > > > > our sages were > > > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > > > > to find the truth > > > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > > > > were very logical > > > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > > > > concept, social and > > > > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > > > > say that present > > > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > > > > bogus, myth, > > > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > > > > information about the > > > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > > > > drastically > > > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > > > > of basic > > > > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > > > > the end product > > > > > may be correct? > > > > > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > > > > will like to loose > > > > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > > > > generation. But > > > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > > > > by false dreams or > > > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > > > > most alert them > > > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > > > > astrology is bogus. > > > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > > > > can also refer > > > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > > > > file section. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > > > > various points raised > > > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > > > > hope that they > > > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > > > > pondering on any point) > > > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > > > > boosting their > > > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > > > > question is a gateway > > > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > > > > knowledge, > > > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > > > > which you have to > > > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > > > > ago > > > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > > > > have no > > > > > > further questions. > > > > > > Thanx & regds, > > > > > > VBDeshmukh > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > > > > you > > > > > > > in reverse > > > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > > http://messenger./invite/ > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 My replies are below: On Behalf Of sanat2221 Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:11 PM FW: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology Dear Ghosh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views further. You have not replied on first point hence I can presume that henceforth you will teach innocent persons who are being cheated by the astrologers in the cover up of correcting future. My answer: >>You asked by views and I have told you my views regarding destiny. Teaching people is not my aim in life..I have other objectives in my life. But definitely I also condemn and hate the money sucker street astrologers. Regarding 2nd point you have not clarified on any method out of 249 bifurcation of zodiac. Do you think I have not studied all these methods? If these are not the combination of lord and sublord then why are you not explaining? Moreover you have not logically replied on my stand " Do you think that if 100 computers may be asked to generate random number for concluding about any incident (say Mumbai attack or any other incident) at a time or at different time then all computers will generate same number for same prediction. " In view of this it is clear that socalled prediction by Sh. Kanak ji is only a fluke and there is no logic. If you are not in a position to answer then you can very well drop this point. But even then I hope you will ponder in this direction. My answer: >> You have not understood the essence of horary system. That's why I told you to study for 1yr and have practical experiments yourself. Do not go straight to " Theory " . Experiment first and then Theory. If you read the horary system deeply, you will find that choosing a number is not important. The same horary could also be done with the exact time lagna also. Catch is that your subconscious mind picks a number and it is an unknown divine law that if you really want an answer, the very number you have chosen and the very moment you have asked the question carries the answer in a cryptic way. When one decides to use a computer, his subconscious mind is prepared to take the outcome as it comes. Had he used 100 computers, definitely the numbers will not be same..his subconscious mind also knows that he will again have to pick from the 100 out comes and the answer depends on the final pick. Krishnamurtyji called it a " Devine guidance " and that works only with human mind..not by computers... and please don't ask me what " Devine " is..I have no answer. I again tell you ..experiment first and try to explain by theory. I think this is the real way of a scientific investigation. In your another msg you have stated " If scientists can call a " string " science " , what is wrong with Rahu & Ketu ????????? " . But I am not convinced with your stand. Because science is a continuous digging of information for improving the knowledge of human civilization. Hence definitely new information will override old knowledge. Thus if 2000 years ago fire was being lit with the help of rubbing of wooden piece (refer Rigved) then now we have improved it to lighter and so on. Thus rubbing of wooden piece was also science and lighter is modern science. Even then there is sufficient scope for future improvement and that will be future science. So I have no objection with Rahu Ketu. But before we start this new point. I will like to know about your views on Rahu Ketu; and according to you what are Rahu Ketu. After hearing from you I will come out with my point. My answer: >> It is never possible to explain astrology with the planets as physical objects. Astrologers know very well that there is nothing in reality as Rahu or Ketu and they are two points only in the space. My personal view is that astrology is governed by some unknown effects(there is no harm using the word 'unknown' if results are achieved by experiments or again take the example of string theory) of some points in the space-time, which can be co-related with the position of planets or the intersection points like Rahu/Ketu. When we talk of Saturn in astrology, we don't see Saturn as a physical planet..but as an influence from a space-time identified by the position of Saturn. The same thing holds for rahu - Ketu also. I again say...experiment-experiment-experiment. Experiment in a proper way and with proper knowledge...then try to make theories. Regards Suprakash Thanks for sharing your views. Remember that nothing is personal and it is only academic exchange of views. Yours truly, Sanat , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > > > > There is a difference between prediction by tossing a coin and > prediction by 249 system. > > By tossing a coin, you are always 50% right or wrong for 'Yes' or 'No' > type of answer. > > 249 system is not like this. You can also predict a date of happening > theoretically to the precision of seconds. Take the case of Kanakji's > prediction....the probability of arriving at so close a date is > tremendously low and never comparable with tossing of a coin. > > It is not possible to describe the 249 method in details in this forum. > Better you go through the system deeply ..at least you spend a year to > get the essence of the system. I suggest you to read the 'Horary > Astrology' book written by K.S. krishnamurtiji, where you will find > astounding prediction examples based on the theory. > > Don't stop after only reading..try the methods yourself and then only > you will come to a conclusion. That is called systematic investigation. > (I have not used the term 'scientific' as science is always wrong in > describing reality till today.) > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > Friday, December 12, 2008 10:59 PM > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views > further and merging second msg also. > > 1 > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > changed? > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be > altered by any > means. > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we are > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the use > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your wish. > Ghosh Ji - Worrying about the future is human nature due to its > weakness and > inability of seeing the future. Destiny can not be altered. In that > sense I agree with you that astrology subject don't have any applied > utility. > > SK - Yes, I agree with your views but I am not agree with your > views `Destiny can not be altered` and I will not ask you to change > your views without knowledge. But will you support your present stand > and like to teach innocent persons who are being cheated by the > astrologers in the cover up of correcting future with the help of > Gem, Offering for Rahu or Saturn etc., Vaastu, Numerology, Muhurt, > Horoscope matching, Mangali, Lal Kitab etc. etc. and inform them that > astrology do not have any applied utility because `Destiny can not be > altered'. Even by this you will serve and save the society including > new generation to some extent. > > 2 - Link - So called correct prediction of Mumbai blast by Sh Kanak > Ji. > > SK - May I ask that what is the difference between tossing of coin > for selecting one option out of 2 (head and tail) and selecting one > option out of 249 (which is only a s.no. of table of Dasha - > antardasha (lord and sub lord). > > Ghosh Ji - There is a definite theory behind this 249 system. It is > surprising that > after 35 years of astro research you don't know it !! > > SK - So far I know that 249 number represents the combination of Lord > and Sub lord in KP system. These combination is result of minor split > of span of 27 constellation in the ratio of duration of Dasha and > antardasha which is based on constellation, which I already referred > in my earlier msg. Thus 249 number is just a s.no. prepared on the > basis of replica of Vinshottary dasha. If these 249 number is some > thing related to magical number with some definite theory then please > inform me. > > I like our interaction and it is very systematic and academic. Please > do not take any remark as personal. > > Thanks > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > PS : Any member may join our interaction from any stage and he can > share his views. > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > Sanatji > > > > Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and > > inability of seeing the future. > > > > Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that > > astrology subject have any applied utility. > > > > Regards > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > > Monday, December 08, 2008 11:34 PM > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of views > > further, so that we may have systematic interaction. > > > > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > changed? > > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't > be > > altered by any > > means. > > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we > are > > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the > use > > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your > wish. > > > > Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do not > > worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course. > > > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanatji > > > > > > > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > > changed? > > > > > > > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be altered > > by any > > > means. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > > > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM > > > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > > > Dear Suprakash, > > > Namaskar, > > > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > > > suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new > member > > > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know > my > > > stand or stand of some other members. > > > > > > Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > science > > > text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you > have > > > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for all > > > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > > > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation of > > same > > > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original book. > > If > > > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read the > > > content in file section. > > > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation of > > > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what > sort > > > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > > > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > > > correct. > > > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward > > with > > > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > > > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since > > long. > > > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you may > > read > > > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various pending > > > points in SOA files. > > > > > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say that > > > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers > and > > > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about > the > > > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who has > > > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can > > prove > > > the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many learned > > > astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not a > > > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically on > a > > > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer > some > > > SOA files and msg. > > > > > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by > hook > > > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > > > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right > from > > > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, dasha, > > > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, astak > > > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of ayanansh > > etc. > > > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict > > anything > > > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental status > of > > > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if it > > is > > > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > > > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > > > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > > > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. > > > > > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can > > pick > > > any previous point or let us start with following point > > > > > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > changed. > > > > > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Yours truly, > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does not > > > qualify > > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > > science > > > > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > > > > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation regarding > > the > > > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the cases > > in > > > this > > > > forum for really scientific analysis. > > > > > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB > data) > > > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many learned > > > > astrologers here to answer. > > > > > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better he > > > should > > > > leave this group. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > > vbdeshmukh > > > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of > Astrology > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > Namaskar. > > > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > > > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > > > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > > > > and ability in this regard, shortly. > > > > Regds, > > > > VBDeshmukh. > > > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > > > > good. > > > > > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > > > > ago for proving > > > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > > > > attracted towards > > > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > > > > continuously studied it > > > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > > > > developed my own > > > > > software for prediction based on astrological > > > > > principles contained in > > > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > > > > horoscope incorporating > > > > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > > > > (refer file section). > > > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > > > > without any > > > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > > > > combination of > > > > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > > > > problem then I tried > > > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > > > > of my scientific > > > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > > > > the problem in > > > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > > > > correctness of > > > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > > > > following the same > > > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > > > > principles, it was > > > > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > > > > formulated and what > > > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > > > > After a fresh > > > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > > > > eye opener. But > > > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > > > > hobby hence I > > > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > > > > find all basic > > > > > information for formulation of these principles and > > > > > data used for > > > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > > > > this venture, it > > > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > > > > public through a > > > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > > > > original > > > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > > > > and has capacity to > > > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > > > > the astrologers and > > > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > > > > such original > > > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > > > > suggested me to > > > > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > > > > content. Thus my > > > > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > > > > page of the book is > > > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > > > > of the book in > > > > > file section). > > > > > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > > > > time as books are > > > > > not compilation from some books but original > > > > > research based content > > > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > > > > (and it is > > > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > > > > prediction) > > > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > > > > without digging it > > > > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > > > > essential for any > > > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > > > > poke our > > > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > > > > and so on. We > > > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > > > > our sages were > > > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > > > > to find the truth > > > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > > > > were very logical > > > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > > > > concept, social and > > > > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > > > > say that present > > > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > > > > bogus, myth, > > > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > > > > information about the > > > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > > > > drastically > > > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > > > > of basic > > > > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > > > > the end product > > > > > may be correct? > > > > > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > > > > will like to loose > > > > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > > > > generation. But > > > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > > > > by false dreams or > > > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > > > > most alert them > > > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > > > > astrology is bogus. > > > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > > > > can also refer > > > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > > > > file section. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > > > > various points raised > > > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > > > > hope that they > > > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > > > > pondering on any point) > > > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > > > > boosting their > > > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > > > > question is a gateway > > > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > > > > knowledge, > > > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > > > > which you have to > > > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > > > > ago > > > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > > > > have no > > > > > > further questions. > > > > > > Thanx & regds, > > > > > > VBDeshmukh > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > > > > you > > > > > > > in reverse > > > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > > http://messenger./invite/ > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 dear suprakash gosh ji I have not used the term 'scientific' as science is always wrong in> describing reality till today.) sure ,u said it , science cannot explain why collectiv yawning is happening ,means in a grp is some one yawns u can find all the grp may b yawning ,is there is any scientific explanation for it ?? first we shud accept limits and scopes of anything than this blind adaptation syndrome .( i will call it an agenda tho it is what is true ) regrds sreedhar nambiar , "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh wrote:>> My replies are below: > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221> Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:11 PM> > FW: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology> > Dear Ghosh Ji,> Namaskar,> Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views > further.> > You have not replied on first point hence I can presume that > henceforth you will teach innocent persons who are being cheated by > the astrologers in the cover up of correcting future.> > My answer:> >>You asked by views and I have told you my views regarding destiny.> Teaching people is not my aim in life..I have other objectives in my> life. But definitely I also condemn and hate the money sucker street> astrologers.> > > > > Regarding 2nd point you have not clarified on any method out of 249 > bifurcation of zodiac. Do you think I have not studied all these > methods? If these are not the combination of lord and sublord then > why are you not explaining? Moreover you have not logically replied > on my stand "Do you think that if 100 computers may be asked to > generate random number for concluding about any incident (say Mumbai > attack or any other incident) at a time or at different time then all > computers will generate same number for same prediction." In view of > this it is clear that socalled prediction by Sh. Kanak ji is only a > fluke and there is no logic. If you are not in a position to answer > then you can very well drop this point. But even then I hope you will > ponder in this direction.> > My answer:> >> You have not understood the essence of horary system. That's why I> told you to study for 1yr and have practical experiments yourself. Do> not go straight to "Theory". Experiment first and then Theory.> > If you read the horary system deeply, you will find that choosing a> number is not important. The same horary could also be done with the> exact time lagna also. Catch is that your subconscious mind picks a> number and it is an unknown divine law that if you really want an> answer, the very number you have chosen and the very moment you have> asked the question carries the answer in a cryptic way.> When one decides to use a computer, his subconscious mind is prepared to> take the outcome as it comes. Had he used 100 computers, definitely the> numbers will not be same..his subconscious mind also knows that he will> again have to pick from the 100 out comes and the answer depends on the> final pick.> Krishnamurtyji called it a "Devine guidance" and that works only with> human mind..not by computers... and please don't ask me what "Devine"> is..I have no answer.> > I again tell you ..experiment first and try to explain by theory. I> think this is the real way of a scientific investigation.> > > > > > > In your another msg you have stated "If scientists can call > a "string "science", what is wrong with Rahu & Ketu ?????????". But I > am not convinced with your stand. Because science is a continuous > digging of information for improving the knowledge of human > civilization. Hence definitely new information will override old > knowledge. Thus if 2000 years ago fire was being lit with the help of > rubbing of wooden piece (refer Rigved) then now we have improved it > to lighter and so on. Thus rubbing of wooden piece was also science > and lighter is modern science. Even then there is sufficient scope > for future improvement and that will be future science. So I have no > objection with Rahu Ketu. But before we start this new point. I will > like to know about your views on Rahu Ketu; and according to you what > are Rahu Ketu. After hearing from you I will come out with my point.> > My answer:> >> It is never possible to explain astrology with the planets as> physical objects. Astrologers know very well that there is nothing in> reality as Rahu or Ketu and they are two points only in the space.> My personal view is that astrology is governed by some unknown> effects(there is no harm using the word 'unknown' if results are> achieved by experiments or again take the example of string theory) of> some points in the space-time, which can be co-related with the> position of planets or the intersection points like Rahu/Ketu.> When we talk of Saturn in astrology, we don't see Saturn as a physical> planet..but as an influence from a space-time identified by the position> of Saturn. The same thing holds for rahu - Ketu also.> > I again say...experiment-experiment-experiment. Experiment in a proper> way and with proper knowledge...then try to make theories. > > Regards> > Suprakash> > > Thanks for sharing your views. > Remember that nothing is personal and it is only academic exchange of > views.> Yours truly,> > Sanat> > > > > , "Suprakash Ghosh" > suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > There is a difference between prediction by tossing a coin and> > prediction by 249 system.> > > > By tossing a coin, you are always 50% right or wrong for 'Yes' > or 'No'> > type of answer.> > > > 249 system is not like this. You can also predict a date of > happening> > theoretically to the precision of seconds. Take the case of > Kanakji's> > prediction....the probability of arriving at so close a date is> > tremendously low and never comparable with tossing of a coin.> > > > It is not possible to describe the 249 method in details in this > forum.> > Better you go through the system deeply ..at least you spend a year > to> > get the essence of the system. I suggest you to read the 'Horary> > Astrology' book written by K.S. krishnamurtiji, where you will find> > astounding prediction examples based on the theory.> > > > Don't stop after only reading..try the methods yourself and then > only> > you will come to a conclusion. That is called systematic > investigation.> > (I have not used the term 'scientific' as science is always wrong in> > describing reality till today.)> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221> > Friday, December 12, 2008 10:59 PM> > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology> > > > Dear Ghosh Ji,> > Namaskar,> > Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views > > further and merging second msg also.> > > > 1> > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be> > changed?> > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't > be > > altered by any> > means. > > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we > are > > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the > use > > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your > wish.> > Ghosh Ji - Worrying about the future is human nature due to its > > weakness and> > inability of seeing the future. Destiny can not be altered. In that > > sense I agree with you that astrology subject don't have any > applied > > utility.> > > > SK - Yes, I agree with your views but I am not agree with your > > views `Destiny can not be altered` and I will not ask you to change > > your views without knowledge. But will you support your present > stand > > and like to teach innocent persons who are being cheated by the > > astrologers in the cover up of correcting future with the help of > > Gem, Offering for Rahu or Saturn etc., Vaastu, Numerology, Muhurt, > > Horoscope matching, Mangali, Lal Kitab etc. etc. and inform them > that > > astrology do not have any applied utility because `Destiny can not > be > > altered'. Even by this you will serve and save the society > including > > new generation to some extent.> > > > 2 - Link - So called correct prediction of Mumbai blast by Sh Kanak > > Ji.> > > > SK - May I ask that what is the difference between tossing of coin > > for selecting one option out of 2 (head and tail) and selecting one > > option out of 249 (which is only a s.no. of table of Dasha - > > antardasha (lord and sub lord). > > > > Ghosh Ji - There is a definite theory behind this 249 system. It is > > surprising that> > after 35 years of astro research you don't know it !!> > > > SK - So far I know that 249 number represents the combination of > Lord > > and Sub lord in KP system. These combination is result of minor > split > > of span of 27 constellation in the ratio of duration of Dasha and > > antardasha which is based on constellation, which I already > referred > > in my earlier msg. Thus 249 number is just a s.no. prepared on the > > basis of replica of Vinshottary dasha. If these 249 number is some > > thing related to magical number with some definite theory then > please > > inform me.> > > > I like our interaction and it is very systematic and academic. > Please > > do not take any remark as personal.> > > > Thanks> > > > Yours truly,> > > > Sanat> > PS : Any member may join our interaction from any stage and he can > > share his views.> > > > > > > > , "Suprakash Ghosh" > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote:> > >> > > Sanatji> > > > > > Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and> > > inability of seeing the future.> > > > > > Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that> > > astrology subject have any applied utility.> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221> > > Monday, December 08, 2008 11:34 PM> > > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology> > > > > > Dear Ghosh Ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of > views > > > further, so that we may have systematic interaction.> > > > > > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be> > > changed?> > > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't > > be > > > altered by any> > > means. > > > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we > > are > > > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > > > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > > > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the > > use > > > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your > > wish.> > > > > > Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do > not > > > worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course.> > > > > > Yours truly,> > > Sanat> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Suprakash Ghosh" > > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Sanatji> > > > > > > > > > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can > be> > > > changed?> > > > > > > > > > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be > altered > > > by any> > > > means. > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > sanat2221> > > > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM> > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology> > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash,> > > > Namaskar,> > > > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > > > > suggestion "Better he should leave this group.". You are new > > member > > > > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know > > my > > > > stand or stand of some other members.> > > > > > > > Yes, you are right that "..wring few books does not qualify> > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > > science> > > > text book writers would have been great scientists.". But you > > have > > > > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for > all > > > > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > > > > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation > of > > > same > > > > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original > book. > > > If > > > > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read > the > > > > content in file section. > > > > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation > of > > > > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what > > sort > > > > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > > > > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > > > > correct.> > > > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward > > > with > > > > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > > > > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since > > > long. > > > > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you > may > > > read > > > > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth" file or various > pending > > > > points in SOA files.> > > > > > > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say > that > > > > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers > > and > > > > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about > > the > > > > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who > has > > > > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can > > > prove > > > > the correctness of astrology. Regarding ". There are many > learned> > > > astrologers here to answer." I will like to say that so far not > a > > > > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically > on > > a > > > > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer > > some > > > > SOA files and msg.> > > > > > > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by > > hook > > > > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > > > > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right > > from > > > > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, > dasha, > > > > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, > astak > > > > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of > ayanansh > > > etc. > > > > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict > > > anything > > > > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental > status > > of > > > > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if > it > > > is > > > > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > > > > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > > > > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > > > > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse.> > > > > > > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can > > > pick > > > > any previous point or let us start with following point> > > > > > > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > > changed.> > > > > > > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion.> > > > > > > > Thanks> > > > Yours truly,> > > > Sanat> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Suprakash Ghosh" > > > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does > not > > > > qualify> > > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > > > science> > > > > text book writers would have been great scientists.> > > > > > > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation > regarding > > > the> > > > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the > cases > > > in > > > > this> > > > > forum for really scientific analysis.> > > > > > > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB > > data)> > > > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many > learned> > > > > astrologers here to answer.> > > > > > > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better > he > > > > should> > > > > leave this group.> > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > > > vbdeshmukh> > > > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM> > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of > > Astrology> > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji,> > > > > Namaskar.> > > > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so> > > > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my> > > > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience> > > > > and ability in this regard, shortly.> > > > > Regds,> > > > > VBDeshmukh.> > > > > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji,> > > > > > Namaskar,> > > > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be> > > > > > good. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years> > > > > > ago for proving > > > > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also> > > > > > attracted towards > > > > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I> > > > > > continuously studied it > > > > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also> > > > > > developed my own > > > > > > software for prediction based on astrological> > > > > > principles contained in > > > > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain> > > > > > horoscope incorporating > > > > > > all requisite data required for any prediction> > > > > > (refer file section). > > > > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and> > > > > > without any > > > > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a> > > > > > combination of > > > > > > principles may appears to be correct in one> > > > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this> > > > > > problem then I tried > > > > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because> > > > > > of my scientific > > > > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this> > > > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is> > > > > > the problem in > > > > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the> > > > > > correctness of > > > > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are> > > > > > following the same > > > > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the> > > > > > principles, it was > > > > > > essential to know as to how these principles were> > > > > > formulated and what > > > > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any.> > > > > > After a fresh > > > > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an> > > > > > eye opener. But > > > > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this> > > > > > hobby hence I > > > > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could> > > > > > find all basic > > > > > > information for formulation of these principles and> > > > > > data used for > > > > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in> > > > > > this venture, it > > > > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general> > > > > > public through a > > > > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi> > > > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that> > > > > > original > > > > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary> > > > > > and has capacity to > > > > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book "Jyotish> > > > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > > > > Galat" published in 2003. It was well accepted by> > > > > > the astrologers and > > > > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that> > > > > > such original > > > > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also> > > > > > suggested me to > > > > > > bring this book in English, because of its original> > > > > > content. Thus my > > > > > > second book "Astrology a science or myth" (front> > > > > > page of the book is > > > > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from> > > > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content> > > > > > of the book in > > > > > > file section).> > > > > > > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own> > > > > > time as books are > > > > > > not compilation from some books but original> > > > > > research based content > > > > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum> > > > > > (and it is > > > > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of> > > > > > prediction) > > > > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion,> > > > > > without digging it > > > > > > further from all possible direction, which is very> > > > > > essential for any > > > > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not> > > > > > poke our > > > > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion> > > > > > and so on. We > > > > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific> > > > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that> > > > > > our sages were > > > > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude> > > > > > to find the truth > > > > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles> > > > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.)> > > > > > were very logical > > > > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge,> > > > > > concept, social and > > > > > > religious background). But at the same time I will> > > > > > say that present > > > > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total> > > > > > bogus, myth, > > > > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic> > > > > > information about the > > > > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been> > > > > > drastically > > > > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation> > > > > > of basic > > > > > > astrological principles have been changed then how> > > > > > the end product > > > > > > may be correct?> > > > > > > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer> > > > > > will like to loose > > > > > > his business by infusing correct information to new> > > > > > generation. But > > > > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured> > > > > > by false dreams or > > > > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the> > > > > > most alert them > > > > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why> > > > > > astrology is bogus. > > > > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job.> > > > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You> > > > > > can also refer > > > > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in> > > > > > file section.> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > Yours truly,> > > > > > > > > > > > Sanat> > > > > > > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on> > > > > > various points raised > > > > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also> > > > > > hope that they > > > > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after> > > > > > pondering on any point) > > > > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or> > > > > > boosting their > > > > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered> > > > > > question is a gateway > > > > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your> > > > > > knowledge, > > > > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for> > > > > > which you have to > > > > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ,> > > > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Sanatji,> > > > > > > Namaskar.> > > > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years> > > > > > ago> > > > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that> > > > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I> > > > > > have no> > > > > > > further questions.> > > > > > > Thanx & regds,> > > > > > > VBDeshmukh> > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji,> > > > > > > > Namaskar,> > > > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some> > > > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach> > > > > > you> > > > > > > > in reverse > > > > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not> > > > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God.> > > > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many> > > > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the> > > > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their> > > > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated ===> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to> > > > > http://messenger./invite/> > > > > > > > > > ---> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Dear Ghosh Ji, Namaskar, Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views further. >>>>You asked by views and I have told you my views regarding destiny. Teaching people is not my aim in life..I have other objectives in my life. But definitely I also condemn and hate the money sucker street astrologers.<<<<<<< SK – I am not asking you to change your views regarding destiny. Yes, I can also realize that teaching people may not be your aim. Actually I mean to say that you can teach means advice your friends, relatives etc., whenever you come across such situation. Why you only condemn street astrologers and why not condemn astrologer with big show rooms and so on, who are also sucking on the name of correcting destiny. I hope you will take necessary action. Regarding 2nd point >> You have not understood the essence of horary system. That's why I told you to study for 1yr and have practical experiments yourself. Do not go straight to " Theory " . Experiment first and then Theory…………………………… Krishnamurtyji called it a " Devine guidance " and that works only with human mind..not by computers... and please don't ask me what " Devine " is..I have no answer. " SK – Every socalled correct practical must have supporting theory. There is no foolproof practical if we do not have any logical answer ie. Theory. Behind 249 numbers there is a socalled theory on which these numbers are based and that theory is Vinshottary dasha. These 249 numbers are replica of dasha. So if we want to analyze a principle of 249 numbers then we have to analyze principles of dasha also itself. Secondly, you have stated that socalled divine guidance work with human mind and not by computer. But in the socalled forecast of Sh Kanak ji, number was randomly generated by the computer. So where is divine guidance. I am not convinced that divine guidance may like to generate random number in the computer of Sh. Kanak ji, for concluding the prediction of Mumbai episode. Thirdly generation of number has nothing to do with horary system. >>>>>I again tell you ..experiment first and try to explain by theory. I think this is the real way of a scientific investigation.<<<<<<< Yes, so is it the explanation that a number generated in the computer of Sh. Kanak ji has sufficient explanation for scientific investigation. When same random number can not be generated on 100 diff. computers. 3rd point >> It is never possible to explain astrology with the planets as physical objects. Astrologers know very well that there is nothing in reality as Rahu or Ketu and they are two points only in the space.<<<< Predictive astrology was created very much on the basis of physical objects. And Rahu ketu was taken as shadow planets like our scientists are finding black holes who are also not visible. So visibility has no conclusive evidence for any object. Hence astrology must be explained with objects or if you change the basic contention then you have to change the basic principles too accordingly. In which scripture or ancient astrological principles it was stated that Rahu ketu are two " points " in the space. >>>>>> My personal view is that astrology is governed by some unknown effects(there is no harm using the word 'unknown' if results are achieved by experiments or again take the example of string theory) of some points in the space-time, which can be co-related with the position of planets or the intersection points like Rahu/Ketu.<<<<<<<< Again it is your personal view that astrology is governed by some unknown effect. It is not so. Every socalled prediction is being decoded with the help of basic principles like sign lord, aspect, friendship, dasha etc. then where is the question of unknown effect. In which ancient scripture or principle any sage stated that Rahu Ketu are intersection point. >>>>>> When we talk of Saturn in astrology, we don't see Saturn as a physical planet..but as an influence from a space-time identified by the position of Saturn. The same thing holds for rahu - Ketu also.<<<<<<<<<< So you are saying that astrological planets are different then physical planets. Now you will add (borrowed explanation) that as we find the time with help of watch likewise we are concluding prediction from planets. And there is no relation between planet (physical) and incident like watch and time. But then is it not like to draw any inference after tossing of coin? Because coin and incident has no relation. Thus astrologers are concluding some prediction with some unrelated planet, Which was never stated by any sages from Parashar to date. Moreover if we have nothing to do with physical planets then why every astrological book is providing astronomical and physical information about the planets. Pl. do not take shelter under false roof otherwise one day you will say that offerings etc. to sun-god etc. as referred in Ved and scriptures are not for Sun but for some imaginary unknown effect. I will like to inform you that every basic principle was founded very much on the basis of physical objects and not on hypothetical effect. >>>>>>> I again say...experiment-experiment-experiment. Experiment in a proper way and with proper knowledge...then try to make theories. <<<<<<< Yes, astrologers are experimenting since +2000 years and every astrologer has devised his ways and means. So when we will have some uncontroversial principle. Because many may say that destiny can not be corrected whereas many will say that destiny may be corrected by some Vaastu, lalkitab, offering, gem, number and so on. Many will say that sayan system is right whereas many will say that niryan is right. Many will say that planets are physical bodies whereas many will say that planets are effective imaginary body. Many will say that Kaal sarp yog is right whereas many will say that it is wrong. Many will say that north Indian system is right whereas many will say that KP is right some more will say that western is right. Many will say that particular ayanansh right whereas many will say that particular ayanansh is wrong………………………………… and so on. So where is the scope of experiment and making a new theory and how long we will continue to generate socalled new theory for befooling innocent public? In view of this I will like to emphasize that no need to be misguided but if you want to know the ground story then you have to find out as to how these basic principles like signlord, aspect etc. were formulated and whether there is some substance in these principles in view of modern knowledge. 4th point Thus we may move ahead and add new point in our discussion as to how sign and sign lord were devised? Thanks for sharing your views. Remember that nothing is personal and it is only academic exchange of views. Yours truly, Sanat , " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh wrote: > > My replies are below: > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:11 PM > > FW: Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > Namaskar, > Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views > further. > > You have not replied on first point hence I can presume that > henceforth you will teach innocent persons who are being cheated by > the astrologers in the cover up of correcting future. > > My answer: > >>You asked by views and I have told you my views regarding destiny. > Teaching people is not my aim in life..I have other objectives in my > life. But definitely I also condemn and hate the money sucker street > astrologers. > > > > > Regarding 2nd point you have not clarified on any method out of 249 > bifurcation of zodiac. Do you think I have not studied all these > methods? If these are not the combination of lord and sublord then > why are you not explaining? Moreover you have not logically replied > on my stand " Do you think that if 100 computers may be asked to > generate random number for concluding about any incident (say Mumbai > attack or any other incident) at a time or at different time then all > computers will generate same number for same prediction. " In view of > this it is clear that socalled prediction by Sh. Kanak ji is only a > fluke and there is no logic. If you are not in a position to answer > then you can very well drop this point. But even then I hope you will > ponder in this direction. > > My answer: > >> You have not understood the essence of horary system. That's why I > told you to study for 1yr and have practical experiments yourself. Do > not go straight to " Theory " . Experiment first and then Theory. > > If you read the horary system deeply, you will find that choosing a > number is not important. The same horary could also be done with the > exact time lagna also. Catch is that your subconscious mind picks a > number and it is an unknown divine law that if you really want an > answer, the very number you have chosen and the very moment you have > asked the question carries the answer in a cryptic way. > When one decides to use a computer, his subconscious mind is prepared to > take the outcome as it comes. Had he used 100 computers, definitely the > numbers will not be same..his subconscious mind also knows that he will > again have to pick from the 100 out comes and the answer depends on the > final pick. > Krishnamurtyji called it a " Devine guidance " and that works only with > human mind..not by computers... and please don't ask me what " Devine " > is..I have no answer. > > I again tell you ..experiment first and try to explain by theory. I > think this is the real way of a scientific investigation. In your another msg you have stated " If scientists can call > a " string " science " , what is wrong with Rahu & Ketu ????????? " . But I > am not convinced with your stand. Because science is a continuous > digging of information for improving the knowledge of human > civilization. Hence definitely new information will override old > knowledge. Thus if 2000 years ago fire was being lit with the help of > rubbing of wooden piece (refer Rigved) then now we have improved it > to lighter and so on. Thus rubbing of wooden piece was also science > and lighter is modern science. Even then there is sufficient scope > for future improvement and that will be future science. So I have no > objection with Rahu Ketu. But before we start this new point. I will > like to know about your views on Rahu Ketu; and according to you what > are Rahu Ketu. After hearing from you I will come out with my point. > > My answer: > >> It is never possible to explain astrology with the planets as > physical objects. Astrologers know very well that there is nothing in > reality as Rahu or Ketu and they are two points only in the space. > My personal view is that astrology is governed by some unknown > effects(there is no harm using the word 'unknown' if results are > achieved by experiments or again take the example of string theory) of > some points in the space-time, which can be co-related with the > position of planets or the intersection points like Rahu/Ketu. > When we talk of Saturn in astrology, we don't see Saturn as a physical > planet..but as an influence from a space-time identified by the position > of Saturn. The same thing holds for rahu - Ketu also. > > I again say...experiment-experiment-experiment. Experiment in a proper > way and with proper knowledge...then try to make theories. > > Regards > > Suprakash > > > Thanks for sharing your views. > Remember that nothing is personal and it is only academic exchange of > views. > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There is a difference between prediction by tossing a coin and > > prediction by 249 system. > > > > By tossing a coin, you are always 50% right or wrong for 'Yes' > or 'No' > > type of answer. > > > > 249 system is not like this. You can also predict a date of > happening > > theoretically to the precision of seconds. Take the case of > Kanakji's > > prediction....the probability of arriving at so close a date is > > tremendously low and never comparable with tossing of a coin. > > > > It is not possible to describe the 249 method in details in this > forum. > > Better you go through the system deeply ..at least you spend a year > to > > get the essence of the system. I suggest you to read the 'Horary > > Astrology' book written by K.S. krishnamurtiji, where you will find > > astounding prediction examples based on the theory. > > > > Don't stop after only reading..try the methods yourself and then > only > > you will come to a conclusion. That is called systematic > investigation. > > (I have not used the term 'scientific' as science is always wrong in > > describing reality till today.) > > > > Regards > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > > Friday, December 12, 2008 10:59 PM > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > > Namaskar, > > Thanks for your response. I am continuing out exchange of views > > further and merging second msg also. > > > > 1 > > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > changed? > > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't > be > > altered by any > > means. > > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we > are > > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the > use > > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your > wish. > > Ghosh Ji - Worrying about the future is human nature due to its > > weakness and > > inability of seeing the future. Destiny can not be altered. In that > > sense I agree with you that astrology subject don't have any > applied > > utility. > > > > SK - Yes, I agree with your views but I am not agree with your > > views `Destiny can not be altered` and I will not ask you to change > > your views without knowledge. But will you support your present > stand > > and like to teach innocent persons who are being cheated by the > > astrologers in the cover up of correcting future with the help of > > Gem, Offering for Rahu or Saturn etc., Vaastu, Numerology, Muhurt, > > Horoscope matching, Mangali, Lal Kitab etc. etc. and inform them > that > > astrology do not have any applied utility because `Destiny can not > be > > altered'. Even by this you will serve and save the society > including > > new generation to some extent. > > > > 2 - Link - So called correct prediction of Mumbai blast by Sh Kanak > > Ji. > > > > SK - May I ask that what is the difference between tossing of coin > > for selecting one option out of 2 (head and tail) and selecting one > > option out of 249 (which is only a s.no. of table of Dasha - > > antardasha (lord and sub lord). > > > > Ghosh Ji - There is a definite theory behind this 249 system. It is > > surprising that > > after 35 years of astro research you don't know it !! > > > > SK - So far I know that 249 number represents the combination of > Lord > > and Sub lord in KP system. These combination is result of minor > split > > of span of 27 constellation in the ratio of duration of Dasha and > > antardasha which is based on constellation, which I already > referred > > in my earlier msg. Thus 249 number is just a s.no. prepared on the > > basis of replica of Vinshottary dasha. If these 249 number is some > > thing related to magical number with some definite theory then > please > > inform me. > > > > I like our interaction and it is very systematic and academic. > Please > > do not take any remark as personal. > > > > Thanks > > > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > PS : Any member may join our interaction from any stage and he can > > share his views. > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > Sanatji > > > > > > Worrying about the future is human nature due to its weakness and > > > inability of seeing the future. > > > > > > Destiny can not be altered. In that sense I agree with you that > > > astrology subject have any applied utility. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of sanat2221 > > > Monday, December 08, 2008 11:34 PM > > > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > > > Dear Ghosh Ji, > > > Namaskar, > > > Thanks for your response. Now I am continuing out exchange of > views > > > further, so that we may have systematic interaction. > > > > > > SK - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > > changed? > > > GhoshJi - My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't > > be > > > altered by any > > > means. > > > SK - If destiny is fixed and it is like a film show, then why we > > are > > > worried about the future and want to know with some predictive > > > principles and simultaneously trying for changing the future with > > > some remedy circus like gem, yagya, number and so on. What is the > > use > > > of knowing the future if you can not modify it according to your > > wish. > > > > > > Waiting for your answer. So far 15 horoscope are concerned, do > not > > > worry we will take any principal for analyzing in due course. > > > > > > Yours truly, > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji > > > > > > > > > > > > Your Q1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can > be > > > > changed? > > > > > > > > > > > > My personal opinion is that destiny is fixed and can't be > altered > > > by any > > > > means. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > sanat2221 > > > > Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 PM > > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: The spirit of Astrology > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Welcome in the forum and thanks for your msg. beside > > > > suggestion " Better he should leave this group. " . You are new > > member > > > > in the group hence it is better to read some of my msg. to know > > my > > > > stand or stand of some other members. > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right that " ..wring few books does not qualify > > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > > science > > > > text book writers would have been great scientists. " . But you > > have > > > > wrongly quoted it here. Because your sayings are correct for > all > > > > present astrologers, who are writing books after picking some > > > > material from various books. Thus their books are compilation > of > > > same > > > > matter. But my book is not a compilation but it is original > book. > > > If > > > > you get an opportunity then have a look or you can even read > the > > > > content in file section. > > > > Is their any book, which has matter related to the formulation > of > > > > predictive principles, as to how they were formulated and what > > sort > > > > of information were used. Any body will agree that when initial > > > > information was not correct then how processed principle may be > > > > correct. > > > > Even then I am agree to accept your version if you come forward > > > with > > > > some explanation as to how sign, sign lord, aspect, friendship, > > > > dasha, Rahu ketu etc. were formulated, which I am asking since > > > long. > > > > If you are interested in a proper exchange of views then you > may > > > read > > > > 1st msg or `Astrology a science or myth " file or various > pending > > > > points in SOA files. > > > > > > > > So far presenting 15 cases are concerned, I will like to say > that > > > > recently Sh Jayant Narlikar Ji conducted a test on astrologers > > and > > > > they could not predict correctly. If you are so confident about > > the > > > > principle then you can contact Randy organization of USA who > has > > > > announced a prize of about 5 crore of Rs. if an astrologer can > > > prove > > > > the correctness of astrology. Regarding " . There are many > learned > > > > astrologers here to answer. " I will like to say that so far not > a > > > > single astrologer is able to exchange his views systematically > on > > a > > > > point except using filthy language or observing silence. Refer > > some > > > > SOA files and msg. > > > > > > > > Every astrologer is perfect in postmortem astrology. Hence by > > hook > > > > and crook he can pick / select the principle in support of any > > > > incident. Because he has plenty scope for selecting it, right > > from > > > > position of planet, lord, aspect, friendship, exaltation, > dasha, > > > > antardasha, transit, Navansh etc horoscopes, Varsh kundali, > astak > > > > varg etc. then full range will KP system and variety of > ayanansh > > > etc. > > > > But when a question of prediction came then they can predict > > > anything > > > > according to their knowledge and circumstances and mental > status > > of > > > > client. If prediction is right or vaguely right then OK and if > it > > > is > > > > wrong then what will happen. Either client will go to another > > > > astrologers for exploitation or astrologer will save himself by > > > > saying that birth time was not correct or he has not seen other > > > > principle due to less consultation fee or some other excuse. > > > > > > > > So in my opinion if you want to discuss some point then you can > > > pick > > > > any previous point or let us start with following point > > > > > > > > 1 - Whether course of incident in future is fixed or can be > > > changed. > > > > > > > > Hope you will not divert the scope of discussion. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Suprakash Ghosh " > > > > <suprakash.ghosh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Spending about 25 years in a hobby or wring few books does > not > > > > qualify > > > > > oneself to be the authority of a subject. Had it been so, all > > > > science > > > > > text book writers would have been great scientists. > > > > > > > > > > If Sanatji has really made any scientific observation > regarding > > > the > > > > > bogusness of astrological principles, he must present the > cases > > > in > > > > this > > > > > forum for really scientific analysis. > > > > > > > > > > What I mean that, he must present minimum 15 cases (with TOB > > data) > > > > > defying a particular astrological dictum. There are many > learned > > > > > astrologers here to answer. > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise there is no meaning writing lengthy emails. Better > he > > > > should > > > > > leave this group. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Suprakash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of > > > vbdeshmukh > > > > > Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Fwd: The spirit of > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have been so > > > > > forthright in your post. Now that the ball is in my > > > > > court, I would try to respond with all my experience > > > > > and ability in this regard, shortly. > > > > > Regds, > > > > > VBDeshmukh. > > > > > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Deshmukh Ji, > > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > > Thanks for your msg. and hope your health may be > > > > > > good. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not started the study of astrology +35 years > > > > > > ago for proving > > > > > > that astrology is wrong. In that age, I was also > > > > > > attracted towards > > > > > > astrology like many in this age group. But I > > > > > > continuously studied it > > > > > > thoroughly alongwith my regular profession, and also > > > > > > developed my own > > > > > > software for prediction based on astrological > > > > > > principles contained in > > > > > > scriputures etc. I also developed an Eskain > > > > > > horoscope incorporating > > > > > > all requisite data required for any prediction > > > > > > (refer file section). > > > > > > This whole exercise was conducted as a hobby and > > > > > > without any > > > > > > consultation fee etc. But I find that when a > > > > > > combination of > > > > > > principles may appears to be correct in one > > > > > > horoscope, but it is not > > > > > > affective in other horoscope. When I find this > > > > > > problem then I tried > > > > > > to look in to it, with different direction, because > > > > > > of my scientific > > > > > > aptitude. As I have no earning interest from this > > > > > > knowledge. Hence I > > > > > > happily diverted my direction to find as to what is > > > > > > the problem in > > > > > > the principles. Because no body has ever checked the > > > > > > correctness of > > > > > > basic principles and whole lot of astrologers are > > > > > > following the same > > > > > > track like blind followers. For analyzing the > > > > > > principles, it was > > > > > > essential to know as to how these principles were > > > > > > formulated and what > > > > > > were the data for such formulation and logic if any. > > > > > > After a fresh > > > > > > digging in this direction, what ever I find is an > > > > > > eye opener. But > > > > > > till that time I had spent about 25 years in this > > > > > > hobby hence I > > > > > > continued the analysis in this direction and could > > > > > > find all basic > > > > > > information for formulation of these principles and > > > > > > data used for > > > > > > such principles. After spending more then 5 years in > > > > > > this venture, it > > > > > > was decided to bring all these facts to general > > > > > > public through a > > > > > > book. Prominent publisher like Motilal Banarashi > > > > > > Das, Delhi, after > > > > > > studying the content of my manuscript, admitted that > > > > > > original > > > > > > research and content of the book is revolutionary > > > > > > and has capacity to > > > > > > block the present flow. Thus my first book " Jyotish > > > > > > Kitna Sahi Kitna > > > > > > Galat " published in 2003. It was well accepted by > > > > > > the astrologers and > > > > > > general reader. Many astrologers have accepted that > > > > > > such original > > > > > > work has never been published. Hence they have also > > > > > > suggested me to > > > > > > bring this book in English, because of its original > > > > > > content. Thus my > > > > > > second book " Astrology a science or myth " (front > > > > > > page of the book is > > > > > > signature picture of our forum) also published from > > > > > > Delhi in 2005 and > > > > > > is being marketed all over the world (refer content > > > > > > of the book in > > > > > > file section). > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I am writing 3rd book and it will take its own > > > > > > time as books are > > > > > > not compilation from some books but original > > > > > > research based content > > > > > > hence it take lot of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have observed that many members in the forum > > > > > > (and it is > > > > > > normal behavior of astrologers doing the business of > > > > > > prediction) > > > > > > always try to divert the direction of discussion, > > > > > > without digging it > > > > > > further from all possible direction, which is very > > > > > > essential for any > > > > > > analysis. While analyzing any principle, we must not > > > > > > poke our > > > > > > mindset or anybodies mindset or culture or religion > > > > > > and so on. We > > > > > > must be very impartial, academic, with scientific > > > > > > aptitude and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > After putting in +35 years, I can strongly say that > > > > > > our sages were > > > > > > very logical, open minded, with scientific aptitude > > > > > > to find the truth > > > > > > (future) hence all basic predictive principles > > > > > > (sign, sign lord, > > > > > > aspect, friendship, exalted, dasha, Rahu ketu etc.) > > > > > > were very logical > > > > > > hence scientific (in view of the then knowledge, > > > > > > concept, social and > > > > > > religious background). But at the same time I will > > > > > > say that present > > > > > > form of predictive astrological principles is total > > > > > > bogus, myth, > > > > > > blindfaith, unscientific etc. Because basic > > > > > > information about the > > > > > > Universe, solar system, social setup etc. have been > > > > > > drastically > > > > > > changed. Thus when basic ingredients for formulation > > > > > > of basic > > > > > > astrological principles have been changed then how > > > > > > the end product > > > > > > may be correct? > > > > > > > > > > > > Now due to business consideration, no astrologer > > > > > > will like to loose > > > > > > his business by infusing correct information to new > > > > > > generation. But > > > > > > what can be done. If new generation is being lured > > > > > > by false dreams or > > > > > > with false fear created by astrologers. I can at the > > > > > > most alert them > > > > > > ask them to read themselves as to how and why > > > > > > astrology is bogus. > > > > > > Thus Now I am on alerting job. > > > > > > Hope this will clear some picture about my self. You > > > > > > can also refer > > > > > > 1st msg or file `astrology a science or myth' in > > > > > > file section. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > PS : I hope members will share their views on > > > > > > various points raised > > > > > > in my earlier msgs for further interaction. I also > > > > > > hope that they > > > > > > will keep their msg in academic frame (after > > > > > > pondering on any point) > > > > > > instead of useless narration or personal mindset or > > > > > > boosting their > > > > > > blindfaith etc. Remember that every unanswered > > > > > > question is a gateway > > > > > > of knowledge and interaction can only improve your > > > > > > knowledge, > > > > > > information etc. but can not change mindset, for > > > > > > which you have to > > > > > > apply your logical knowledge in this direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > vbdeshmukh <deshmukhv@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji, > > > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > > > Did you take up the study of Astrology 35+ years > > > > > > ago > > > > > > > for finding and proving (scientifically?)that > > > > > > > prdictive astrology is a fraud ? If so, then I > > > > > > have no > > > > > > > further questions. > > > > > > > Thanx & regds, > > > > > > > VBDeshmukh > > > > > > > --- sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Kaul ji, > > > > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > > > > Thanks for your endless efforts to infuse some > > > > > > > > logical quotient in > > > > > > > > the mind of members. But today I want to teach > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > in reverse > > > > > > > > direction. Hi Hi Hi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are asking as to why astrologers have not > > > > > > > > forecasted about the > > > > > > > > Mumbai episode. So > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - do you think that our astrologers are God. > > > > > > > > Certainly not. Because > > > > > > > > you may have some personal discussion with many > > > > > > > > astrologers like me. > > > > > > > > All astrologers in their free mind accept the > > > > > > > > failures of astrology > > > > > > > > but they will not admit it in front of their > > > > > > > > clients. Though many > > > > > > > > astrologers have admitted in forums too about > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > > > http://messenger./invite/ > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.