Guest guest Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 dear respected Kaul ji namaskar i would like to know Your opinion on the vedic seer bashing and trashing in this post . i think u also support this .right ?? if not i wanted to hear what is ur understanding on vedic astronomy regrds prashanth , "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Dear Ghopal Ji,> Namaskar,> I am not agreeing with your own assessment >>>>>> May be I dont have > enough knowledge to explain what is science<<<<<<. Because every one > who is educated may always apply his mind and try to think logically. > This is science. I am of the opinion that our sages who were of the > firm opinion that Earth is stationary and Sun is nearer then Moon and > so on were also very logical in their findings hence it was also the > then science. Problem is this that when we shut our doors of mind > then we become blind follower and in that case we do not want to hear > anything which is against our mindset. Because in sub-conscious mind > we think that our mind set is correct knowledge. Whereas mindset is > fixed and knowledge is improving. So there is a vast gap in between > them.> > So whenever knowledge of our sages is analyzed, everyone come forward > with the mindset that how our sages may be wrong. But they forget > that we in the forum are not blaming the knowledge of our sages. As I > have said earlier that I am of the firm opinion that they were right > (but in view of the then knowledge). Suppose Boeing company may start > to use the frame of cycle while constructing the Boeing, with the > argument that Wright Brothers were also using the cycle frame for > manufacturing the flying machine. Then do you think you may visit > Malayasia? And using the cycle frame in Boeing will definitely be a > foolish thinking.> > In the same way all astrological principles were formulated on the > basis of the then knowledge about the universe (Madhya lok), social > set up, Political set up, the then astronomical information supported > by the society and found very logical and there was no any question > which was not answered by them. So the knowledge of our sages were > science. Like, whatever knowledge is being gathered by Nasa is > science of 2008, But some of its knowledge is in initial stage, which > is being supported by present knowledge and we have no question on > them but it may not be in the present form say after 100 years. So > can we term present knowledge as unscientific. NO. Our present > knowledge is science so long we are prepared to amend it. > > Thus our predictive astrological knowledge and principles are now > unscientific and supporting them is like support of cycle frame in > front of Boeing frame. So evaluate the knowledge of our sages in > right perspective and do not put them in a situation so we may be > regarded as blind follower. In view of this I commented for spreading > your mindset (blindfaith) and not knowledge. > > If you support >>>>>> But you can make atleast your clients (if not > everybody)content,make them feel at ease,give them happiness to the > possible extent.<<<<<<< then where is the question of prediction. > With this arguments you are saying that astrologer must say that they > are moral booster, counselor, psychologist and so on but not fortune > teller. Then everything will be at right place. But it is not so. > Astrologers are predicting that so and so will happen without knowing > the capability, education and other problems. Problems are being > created in marriages in the name of match making, many negative > predictions are being made to demoralize an individual and so on. > Thus I am not agree with your views.> > Regarding >>>>>>>>With little bit of knowledge people take up > astrology as a profession ,let them win their bread Sanatji.<<<<< I > will like to say that I have no objection if they are earning their > bread and butter. Many forums, astrologers are doing this, I have no > objection. Let them earn from fools. But if a wine vendor is selling > wine, I may have no objection, because he is also able to console > some problem of humanbeings. But when he publicize his business that > by drinking wine your problems will be solved (due to dizziness) or > you may get success (due to extra power) then it is my duty to save > not drunkard, but to new generation and I have to teach them that you > are not going to gain anything from wine vendor (astrologer), who are > exploiting your ignorance in the name of science or vedic or sages or > tradition and what not. Because we all have fallen in this pond, only > due to publicity that by astrology we can know our future and it is > very scientific and so on. But after putting in so many years I came > to know that it is all fraud hence my two books have been published > containing analysis of every principle in detail. Since five years > not a single astrologer has said that content and analysis of > principle is wrong. > > > >>>>>> You mean every astrologer must know how VIMSH.dasa principle > is derived by the rishis or whoever has made it and all such matters > like rahu-ketu etc,etc.<<<<<< YES, because so long a simple vendor is > unknowingly selling wine thinking that it is tonic. It is good. But > if he knows or have opportunity to know (through my book or > interaction) about his tonic (prediction) that it is not a tonic but > it is wine and prepared with an outdated system (knowledge) then if > he is mentally right then he will definitely try to know about the > content of so called tonic. Thus I am saying that when principles are > formulated on outdated information then how you can support them. You > can only support, because you (astrologer) do not know. > > >>>>>> I have come here on the invitation and the expenses of people > here who called me to teach KP.<<<<<< because they think like many > others that KP brand tonic may solve their problem. But if you teach > them that all signlord etc. principles were formulated on old concept > which has been rejected by modern science then perhaps no one will > come forward to learn KP. But unfortunately astrologers are more > interested in money, prestige, reputation in comparison to social > service. Because you may have seen large show room of wine with high > gentry or poor standing in queue to purchase a costly wine. But fruit > vendor has to sell his fruit (which improves our healt) by roaming in > every street. This is the world and you are also one of them.> > Thus it is up to an individual as to whether he support wine vendor > (mindset, astrology) or social reformer. > Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic exchange of > views. > > Thanking you,> Yours truly,> Sanat> > > , "TKP Ghopal" > astrogopalji@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sanatji Namaskar.> > I could not be online for somtime due to transit and non > availability of net> > at my end.> > I appreciate your quizzical comment> > "My best wishes for spreading your mindset (not knowledge)."> > > > May be I dont have enough knowledge to explain what is science.> > > > One has to be rational to be scientific.> > You probe on all the angles by asking 'n' number of questions,like > putting> > it in the test tube and boil and add neccessary ingrediants to test > what is> > in it.> > You can never go to lab with an astrological question.> > But you can probe it with many questions as to what is in it.> > If you want to become God being an astrologer,I am > sorry ,impossible.> > But you can make atleast your clients (if not everybody)> content,make them> > feel at ease,give them happiness to the possible extent.> > What are we heading for?> > To become God?> > You mean every astrologer must know how VIMSH.dasa principle is > derived by> > the rishis or whoever has made it and all such matters like rahu-> ketu> > etc,etc.> > So the holes are more important than the pudding!> > With little bit of knowledge people take up astrology as a > profession ,let> > them win their bread Sanatji.> > > > I highly appreciate your tendency and the same is mine too ,thats > why I> > continue in this forum,of not cheating the public with false > pretends.Leave> > aside the mongers who mint money out of remedies.> > Otherwise Sanatji,frankly speaking by heart, I cant understand what > are you> > out to.> > > > Thank you for your wishes to me.I have come here on the invitation > and the> > expenses of people here who called me to teach KP.So I may not find > time> > rather I dont want to waste their time by communicating long hours.> > Thank you for your kind attention and hope to see and communicate > to you> > after my return to India.> > With warm regards,> > tkp ghopal> > NB:> > kindly inform AKKji that I dont know Sanskrit.He has admonished me > for using> > an extra 'h' in my name.My Tamil is more prominent and sister > language to> > Sanskrit ,even as old as 'brahiritham' and still alive ,not dead > like> > sanskrit.In Tamil, no questions asked whether I use an extra h or> > not,because it is not relevent.> > tkp> > > > > > > > On 11/9/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Ghopal Ji and members,> > > Namaskar,> > > Regarding your msg to Sh Kaul ji, (dt 5-11-8), I will like to > express> > > my view on some points.> > > Perhaps Sh. Kaul ji is referring KP as 'hotch-potch' system, > because> > > it is using western system of aspect (with friendship enmity > system> > > ie +ve and –ve affect), their own ayanansh, their house system is> > > different from traditional system by about 15 deg., significator> > > system is a reverse copy of Vinshottary dasha, sign and sign lord,> > > exaltation has been opted from traditional system and so on. > Hence it> > > is a mixture of both system.> > > There is nothing wrong in mixing two systems for working out some> > > socalled correct prediction. But again main question (which is the> > > aim of the forum) is whether sign lord, exaltation, aspect etc. > which> > > is root content of these systems (predictive astrology) are > correct> > > or not. There correctness can only be assessed if any member will> > > come out with any explanation as to how they were formulated, what> > > initial information was used, whether that information was > correct,> > > whether procedure was logical (if not scientifical), are they > require> > > any change and so on. I am continuously raising this point but > not a> > > single socalled expert astrologers are offering any remote> > > explanation (forget about some solid reasons, though I have > written> > > every thing in detail in my book). So in my opinion, when basic> > > ingredient of any system (principle) is not correct then how end> > > product (prediction) may be correct. . However, this much I can> > > assure you that not a single principle was formulated with some> > > divine power but every principle `was' correct and logical in > view of> > > the then science and every principle `is' wrong and illogical in > view> > > of present scientific knowledge.> > >> > > >>>>>I find it scientific because we can reason out for any> > > prediction we give.<<<<< NO, any thing can not be termed as> > > scientific only by offering any reason. If you ask any question > with> > > a child (answer of which he is not supposed to know) even then he> > > will explain every thing and he has sufficient reason for > believing> > > that. But by this, his concept may not be termed as scientific. > For> > > terming any astrological principle as scientifically supported, we> > > must have answers on various points (above para ).> > >> > > Glad to know that you are going to Malaysia. Hope you will > continue> > > to offer your comments. My best wishes for spreading your mindset> > > (not knowledge).> > >> > > Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic discussion.> > > I hope members will offer their comments.> > >> > > Yours truly,> > > Sanat> > >> > > PS> > >> > > It would have been better if Sh muthuram kumar may have offered > some> > > solid comments in support of predictive astrology or on various> > > points raised in the forum instead of throwing useless sentences. > I> > > hope he will come out with some solid arguments. We must remember> > > that it also requires some time and energy to read and write > useless> > > sentences.> > >> > > <%> 40>,> > > "TKP Ghopal"> > > <astrogopalji@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Mr.AKK JI> > > > THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KIND MAIL TO ME.> > > > I had gone thro many of your mails and came to know of your vast> > > knowledge> > > > in the Veda.> > > > I stand absolutely nothing infront of you as far as Veda and > Vedic> > > are> > > > concerned.> > > > I assume you might be an elderly person too.( I am only 58)> > > >> > > > One has to win his bread is more essential than celebrating> > > festivals at> > > > right time and day.> > > > I am still running to win my bread hence I cant debate with > whether> > > the> > > > Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day or a day before that.If you> > > come to> > > > know that on Diwali day in a small village of around 1200> > > population nearly> > > > 1ton> > > > of goat ,sheep and chiken were cut to use by people.> > > > So celebration is eating and enjoying for some.They don't care > it> > > is on this> > > > day or that day.> > > >> > > > You are having a very little knowledge about KP system,the so > called> > > > 'hotch-potch'system.> > > > If my friends come to know that you used these words they would> > > charge you> > > > for using filthy language on KP.> > > > I find it scientific because we can reason out for any > prediction> > > we give.> > > > If you think that I am Vedic,I am very sorry AKKji,I am an > outsider> > > to> > > > vedas,totally.> > > > You had been already mentioning in another mail too that number> > > from 1 to> > > > 254....its not 254 but 249.> > > > It is not a number picked up from nowhere ,there is a very > strong> > > thesis> > > > behind it.> > > > Sh.Sanatji has a deep knowledge about KP.> > > >> > > > Anyway leave me aside AKKji.> > > >> > > > I am not interested to debate.Whenever I find time between > clients> > > I go thro> > > > few mails pateintly and observe what are you all doing.I gather> > > one thing> > > > that you all have lot and lots time to be on internet.> > > >> > > > Well I would propose you one thing here that you can join my KP> > > classes and> > > > I am sure you will change your stance.That too not now only > after 3> > > > months,because I ve been invited by a Malysian to go to > Malaysia to> > > conduct> > > > KP classes for 3 months and I just received my onward and return> > > E.tickets> > > > from him,leaving on 7th Nov.08.> > > >> > > > Thank you> > > > With great Regards for your experiance.> > > > tkp ghopal> > > >> > > >> > > > On 11/3/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Shri T K P Ghopalji,> > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > < I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.>> > > > > In an off-line communication to the Moderator of this forum, > I had> > > > > said specifically that it is immaterial as to who asks what> > > questions> > > > > so long as they are related to predictive gimmicks known as> > > astrology.> > > > > But what is material is as to whether those questions are > asked> > > as an> > > > > exchange of ideas/knowledge or just to use such filthy > language> > > that> > > > > the "respondent" finds it disgusting to reply such posts.> > > > >> > > > > For example, let us take the first question of the post of > Shri> > > Bhaskar> > > > > <*1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN > LEO, LR> > > > > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE > THT> > > > > THEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*>> > > > >> > > > > In fact, this question is applicable to you more than to > anybody> > > else> > > > > since you are using KP system which is just a hotch-potch of > so> > > many> > > > > systems! Obviously, you had become disgusted with all the > systems> > > of> > > > > BV Raman, BABAJI etc. etc. that you had to switch over to KP--> -a> > > > > system not more than a century old in any case!> > > > >> > > > > You have said further> > > > > <What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the> > > > > appropriate time?>> > > > > This question deserves a "Nobel prize"! One thing is, however,> > > clear> > > > > from the same that at least you have also come to realize > that it> > > is> > > > > only because of the fraud called Vedic astrology that we are> > > > > celebrating all our festivals, including Divali, on wrong > days!> > > And> > > > > you want that instead of banishing anti-Vedic "Vedic > astrology" we> > > > > must stop celebrating our festivals on correct days and > follow the> > > > > ditates of Lahiris and Lahirwalas!> > > > > AND THAT IS WHY I SAY THAT OUR BUDHI HAS GOT ENVELOPED BY > TAMOGUNA> > > > > COMPLETELY---SINCE YOU ARE PREPARED TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS TO > DEFEND> > > > > "VEIDIC ASTROLOGY" EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO "GIVE TILANJALI" TO > YOUR> > > DHARMA!> > > > > My counter question is why celebrate any festivals at all! Is > it> > > only> > > > > because then you cannot exhibit to the whole world the non-> > > existent> > > > > "Vedic astrology"?> > > > >> > > > > You have also said> > > > > <Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its> > > > > celebrated on Chathudasi,the previous day>> > > > > I do not know what criteria you are talking about! Pl. quote > the> > > > > exact source of your information--full references.> > > > >> > > > > You have also said> > > > > < Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's> > > affairs.> > > > > Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?>> > > > >> > > > > It appears you have not at all perused my reply to your post > via> > > my> > > > > mail No.423 of September 12. I am quoting a part of the same > for> > > > > ready reference and that should answer your question as to > why I> > > am> > > > > dead against predictive gimmicks in the name of "Vedic > astrology"> > > > > Here are the relevant paragraphs> > > > >> > > > > Quote> > > > > < Though your language and derivations are pretty good I dont> > > > > understand why on the name of heaven you are throwing mud on> > > > > astrology.>> > > > >> > > > > Perhaps you have observed by now that I am silent about the> > > various> > > > > other types of predictive gimmicks like Tarot, Palmistry,> > > > > physiognomy etc. etc. That does not mean that I accept all of > them> > > > > as science! No. Absolutely not! However, none of > those "methods"> > > > > lays a claim to have emanated from the Vedas or any other > Hindu> > > > > shastras! For the same reason, I am just silent about KP > system---> > > > > it is a hotch-potch of something of the sayana (Placidus House> > > > > systdem) plus something of nirayana (Planets and rashis) plus > some> > > > > numerology (numbers from 1 to 254) and what not! It is > immaterial> > > > > to me whether it is a science or an art or a fraud so long as > it> > > > > does not claim to be an "offshoot" of the Vedas or some other> > > Hindu> > > > > scripture!> > > > >> > > > > Thus, whatever I have said against astrology is on the basis > of> > > the> > > > > Vedas, Smritis, Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc. This is evident > from my> > > > > various posts. None of our shastras has advised us to consult> > > > > jyotishis! On the other hand, Yudishthira was advised by > Bhishma> > > > > Pitamaha to treat a nakshatra-soochi brahmana as a chandala! > Why?> > > > > Because it is neither a science nor an art but just a way of> > > making> > > > > a fool of a gullible person! Above all, it has no basis in > any of> > > > > our shastras!> > > > >> > > > > The most damaging result of our fatal infatuation with "Vedic> > > > > astrology" has been that we are celebrating all our festivals > and> > > > > muhurtas on wrong days! Hence it is the duty of every real > Hindu> > > to> > > > > be as scornful for this fraud known as "Vedic astrology" as is> > > > > humanly possible and to follow the instructions of Bhishma> > > Pitamaha!> > > > >> > > > > As to how we are celebrating our festivals on wrong days will > be> > > > > clear from the paper "08-09.pdf" being uploaded in the files> > > section!"> > > > > Unquote.> > > > > Dhanyavad.> > > > > AKK> > > > > <%> 40>> > > <%> > > 40>,> > > > > "TKP Ghopal"> > > > > <astrogopalji@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sanatji> > > > > > *LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI* .> > > > > > I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.> > > > > > Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.?> > > > > > An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned > man.A> > > > > learned man> > > > > > never slanders.> > > > > >> > > > > > What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the> > > appropriate> > > > > > time?> > > > > > Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its> > > > > celebrated on> > > > > > Chathudasi,the previous day> > > > > > of amavasya in south India.> > > > > >> > > > > > Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on > some new> > > > > clothes and> > > > > > eat (unwanted for some)> > > > > > sweets and savouries and get indigestion.> > > > > >> > > > > > Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's> > > affairs.> > > > > > Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?> > > > > > Those astrologers also slandering between them?!?!> > > > > > Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter > attack!> > > > > >> > > > > > I apprecciate your intention of getting more into astrology.> > > > > > But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of> > > conversations,I> > > > > > suppose.> > > > > > Kindly look into it if you feel I am right.> > > > > >> > > > > > With kind Regards> > > > > > tkp> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On 10/28/08, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *Avtar,*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN > LEO,> > > LR> > > > > > > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. > PROVE> > > THT> > > > > THEIR> > > > > > > RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE > JYOTISH> > > FORUMS> > > > > IN MY> > > > > > > LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE > WRONG.> > > OR> > > > > PROVE THAT> > > > > > > THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT > THEY> > > ARE> > > > > ALL FAKE> > > > > > > IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE > ME> > > OF HAVING> > > > > > > ANSWERED A FAKE ID. *> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL > DATES,> > > AND THE> > > > > > > OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE > REST ARE> > > > > IDIOTS.*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *BHASKAR. *> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --> > > > > > TKP Ghopal> > > > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> > > > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001> > > > > > 93666 23444> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > --> > > > TKP Ghopal> > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001> > > > 93666 23444> > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > -- > > TKP Ghopal> > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001> > 93666 23444> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Shri Prashanth Nairji, Namaskar! < i would like to know Your opinion on the vedic seer bashing and trashing in this post.> When I frist read the statements of Dr. M. N. Saha and S. B. Dikshit etc. that there were no Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis or Mangal, Shani etc. planets in any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha, I was mad with rage that they were " bashing " the Vedas and other scriptures and they certainly must have been influenced/hypnotized by Xtians! All along I was wondering as to how stalwarts and pious people like Dr. B. V. Raman could be wrong since he was declaring from housetops that nirayana predictive astrology was Vedic and even foreigners like " Vamadeva " and Indian " Parasharas " were repeating the same thing from every pulpit! Even K N Rao was also singing in the same tune! After all, all of them could not be wrong---that is what I thought! And I could not imagine for a moment that all these scholars could be claiming nirayana astrology to be Vedic without having gone through the Vedas themselves! As such, I decided to take the bull by the horns and prove that Dr. Saha and S. B. Dikshit etc. were absolutely wrong! I could do so only if I could quote the exact chapter and verse of the relevant Veda which had talked about horoscopes and Dasha-bhuktis etc. I went through all the Vedas very assiduously, but somehow, could not find the mention of any Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashi or Mangal, Shani etc. planets in any of the Vedas! I had, naturally, to agree with Dr. Saha and S. B. Dikshit etc. that there were no Mesha etc. Rashis or Mangal, Shani etc. planets in any of the Vedas or the VJ! But I continued my research further and arrived at the conclusion that it is not only that there are no predictive gimmicks in the Vedas, but somehow, because of that very " Vedic astrology " , we were/are celebratig all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days! That is what Dr. Saha and other members of the Saha Calendar Reform Committee also had observed! Unfortunately, however, it was because of selfish people like late N. C. Lahiri, who was the Secretary of the Saha Committee, that the efforts of the Committee to streamline the Hindu calendar proved a miserable failure! And N. C. Lahiri had the support of all the " Vedic astrologers " to scuttle the calendar reform, because the so called Sayana Rashis would have proved that all the " Vedic astrologers " were following a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra for proving their astrological skills! And now that I am pointing out all such anachronisms in the Hindu calendar because of predictive gimmicks known as " Vedic astrology " , I am being clubbed as a " convert " who is " intersted in bashing our ancestors " . It is also being said that I am getting funds from some Xtian Churches for " bashing Vedic astrology " ! That much about bashing of " Vedic astrology " . Now about the Puranas etc. When I read the Satyartha Prakasha by Swami Dayanada Saraswati first, I was aghast as to how ruthlessly he had " bashed " some statements in some of the Puranas! However, when I pondered on the points he had raised, I was dumbfounded since he had said " Truth and nothing but Truth " . There are certain irreconilables in the Puranas which are interpolations! Swami Dayananda Saraswati also has " bashed " predictive gimmicks mercilessly, and because I also was/am doing a similar thing, quite a few " Vedic astrologers " thought that I was also an Arya Samaji--- which I am not---as I am no iconoclast! Anyway, since we are talking right now only in terms of astronomy/astrology in this forum, let me give you just two examples: 1. Narada Purana is supposed to be the " beacon-light " of Vedic astrologers as there are quite a few astrological and astronomicle principes in the same! When I went through that Purana from cover to cover, I was really flabbergasted to find that that Purana had given the astronomical parameters of the Surya Sidhanta as it is---without batting an eyelid! The height of folly of the compiler of that Purana is that for deciding the Ayanamsha, he has quoted the shlokas " trimshat kritva yuge bhanam.... " also from the Surya Sidhanta! As is common knowlege by now, those shlokas are an interpolation of post Munjala era--about 10th century AD! And the Hindi translator of that Purana of Gita Press, Gorakhpur, has even " proved " that that is the Ayanamsha which tallies almost exactly with that of late N. C. Lahiri! All I can say is that the translator is an idiot of first order since he does not know even ABC of astronomy, whether sidhantic or modern, as otherwise, he would never have misinterpreted those interpolated shlokas in such a clumsy manner! As such, it is really the " most unkindest cut " ---not only is there an interpolation in the Naranada Purana from the Surya Sidhanta---wha is most pathetic is that the interpolated sholkas in the Narada Purana are actually those sholkas that have been interploated in the Surya Sidhantai.e. it is an interpolation of an interpolation! But somehow it has been interpreted/translated in such a manner as to prove that Lahiri Ayanamsha is the one presecribed by " Narada Purana " . It also proves " beyond all the reasonable doubts " that Narada Purana is actually a work of about eleventh century AD---At least the jyotisha portion is! NOW THAT I HAVE POINTED OUT TO YOU SUCH A WHOLESALE FRAUD IN THE NARADA PURANA, YOU MAY VERY WELL SAY THAT I AM " BASHING NARADA RISHI " Then let us take the example of Vishnu-dharmotara Purana! This is what P. C. Sengupta has said on page xiv of his Introduction to Ebenezer Burgess' translation of the Surya Sidhanta, " If we examine the Paitamaha Sidhanta of the Vishdharmottara Purana, in the way in which we have examined the S. Sidhanta, we readily come to the conclusion that it represents almost a wholesale purloining of the important portions of the Brahmasphuta Sidhanta of Brahmagupta, and that this nefarious act was done be a person who had absolutely no pretension to originality and whose style of Sanskrit appears ludicrous. A similar examinatoin of the Vriddha Vasishtha Sidhanta would lead us to the conclusion that it was written by some unknown person after the time of Bhaskara-II (12th century AD) " . So you may as well say that P C Sengupta had resorted to " bashing of Vedic seers " since afer all, Paitamaha Sidhanta is supposed to have been " revealed " by Pitamaha Brahma! YOU MUST, IN THE MEANTIME, CONTINUE TO CELEBRATE ALL YOUR FESTIVALS AND MUHURTAS ON WRONG DAYS---and go on hollering on the ones who point out to you such anachronisms in " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis muhurtas! With regards, A K Kaul , " prashanthnair999 " <prashanthnair999 wrote: > > > > > dear respected Kaul ji > > namaskar > > i would like to know Your opinion on the vedic seer bashing and trashing > in this post . > > i think u also support this .right ?? > > if not i wanted to hear what is ur understanding on vedic astronomy > > > > regrds prashanth > > > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ghopal Ji, > > Namaskar, > > I am not agreeing with your own assessment >>>>>> May be I dont have > > enough knowledge to explain what is science<<<<<<. Because every one > > who is educated may always apply his mind and try to think logically. > > This is science. I am of the opinion that our sages who were of the > > firm opinion that Earth is stationary and Sun is nearer then Moon and > > so on were also very logical in their findings hence it was also the > > then science. Problem is this that when we shut our doors of mind > > then we become blind follower and in that case we do not want to hear > > anything which is against our mindset. Because in sub-conscious mind > > we think that our mind set is correct knowledge. Whereas mindset is > > fixed and knowledge is improving. So there is a vast gap in between > > them. > > > > So whenever knowledge of our sages is analyzed, everyone come forward > > with the mindset that how our sages may be wrong. But they forget > > that we in the forum are not blaming the knowledge of our sages. As I > > have said earlier that I am of the firm opinion that they were right > > (but in view of the then knowledge). Suppose Boeing company may start > > to use the frame of cycle while constructing the Boeing, with the > > argument that Wright Brothers were also using the cycle frame for > > manufacturing the flying machine. Then do you think you may visit > > Malayasia? And using the cycle frame in Boeing will definitely be a > > foolish thinking. > > > > In the same way all astrological principles were formulated on the > > basis of the then knowledge about the universe (Madhya lok), social > > set up, Political set up, the then astronomical information supported > > by the society and found very logical and there was no any question > > which was not answered by them. So the knowledge of our sages were > > science. Like, whatever knowledge is being gathered by Nasa is > > science of 2008, But some of its knowledge is in initial stage, which > > is being supported by present knowledge and we have no question on > > them but it may not be in the present form say after 100 years. So > > can we term present knowledge as unscientific. NO. Our present > > knowledge is science so long we are prepared to amend it. > > > > Thus our predictive astrological knowledge and principles are now > > unscientific and supporting them is like support of cycle frame in > > front of Boeing frame. So evaluate the knowledge of our sages in > > right perspective and do not put them in a situation so we may be > > regarded as blind follower. In view of this I commented for spreading > > your mindset (blindfaith) and not knowledge. > > > > If you support >>>>>> But you can make atleast your clients (if not > > everybody)content,make them feel at ease,give them happiness to the > > possible extent.<<<<<<< then where is the question of prediction. > > With this arguments you are saying that astrologer must say that they > > are moral booster, counselor, psychologist and so on but not fortune > > teller. Then everything will be at right place. But it is not so. > > Astrologers are predicting that so and so will happen without knowing > > the capability, education and other problems. Problems are being > > created in marriages in the name of match making, many negative > > predictions are being made to demoralize an individual and so on. > > Thus I am not agree with your views. > > > > Regarding >>>>>>>>With little bit of knowledge people take up > > astrology as a profession ,let them win their bread Sanatji.<<<<< I > > will like to say that I have no objection if they are earning their > > bread and butter. Many forums, astrologers are doing this, I have no > > objection. Let them earn from fools. But if a wine vendor is selling > > wine, I may have no objection, because he is also able to console > > some problem of humanbeings. But when he publicize his business that > > by drinking wine your problems will be solved (due to dizziness) or > > you may get success (due to extra power) then it is my duty to save > > not drunkard, but to new generation and I have to teach them that you > > are not going to gain anything from wine vendor (astrologer), who are > > exploiting your ignorance in the name of science or vedic or sages or > > tradition and what not. Because we all have fallen in this pond, only > > due to publicity that by astrology we can know our future and it is > > very scientific and so on. But after putting in so many years I came > > to know that it is all fraud hence my two books have been published > > containing analysis of every principle in detail. Since five years > > not a single astrologer has said that content and analysis of > > principle is wrong. > > > > > > >>>>>> You mean every astrologer must know how VIMSH.dasa principle > > is derived by the rishis or whoever has made it and all such matters > > like rahu-ketu etc,etc.<<<<<< YES, because so long a simple vendor is > > unknowingly selling wine thinking that it is tonic. It is good. But > > if he knows or have opportunity to know (through my book or > > interaction) about his tonic (prediction) that it is not a tonic but > > it is wine and prepared with an outdated system (knowledge) then if > > he is mentally right then he will definitely try to know about the > > content of so called tonic. Thus I am saying that when principles are > > formulated on outdated information then how you can support them. You > > can only support, because you (astrologer) do not know. > > > > >>>>>> I have come here on the invitation and the expenses of people > > here who called me to teach KP.<<<<<< because they think like many > > others that KP brand tonic may solve their problem. But if you teach > > them that all signlord etc. principles were formulated on old concept > > which has been rejected by modern science then perhaps no one will > > come forward to learn KP. But unfortunately astrologers are more > > interested in money, prestige, reputation in comparison to social > > service. Because you may have seen large show room of wine with high > > gentry or poor standing in queue to purchase a costly wine. But fruit > > vendor has to sell his fruit (which improves our healt) by roaming in > > every street. This is the world and you are also one of them. > > > > Thus it is up to an individual as to whether he support wine vendor > > (mindset, astrology) or social reformer. > > Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic exchange of > > views. > > > > Thanking you, > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > > > , " TKP Ghopal " > > astrogopalji@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanatji Namaskar. > > > I could not be online for somtime due to transit and non > > availability of net > > > at my end. > > > I appreciate your quizzical comment > > > " My best wishes for spreading your mindset (not knowledge). " > > > > > > May be I dont have enough knowledge to explain what is science. > > > > > > One has to be rational to be scientific. > > > You probe on all the angles by asking 'n' number of questions,like > > putting > > > it in the test tube and boil and add neccessary ingrediants to test > > what is > > > in it. > > > You can never go to lab with an astrological question. > > > But you can probe it with many questions as to what is in it. > > > If you want to become God being an astrologer,I am > > sorry ,impossible. > > > But you can make atleast your clients (if not everybody) > > content,make them > > > feel at ease,give them happiness to the possible extent. > > > What are we heading for? > > > To become God? > > > You mean every astrologer must know how VIMSH.dasa principle is > > derived by > > > the rishis or whoever has made it and all such matters like rahu- > > ketu > > > etc,etc. > > > So the holes are more important than the pudding! > > > With little bit of knowledge people take up astrology as a > > profession ,let > > > them win their bread Sanatji. > > > > > > I highly appreciate your tendency and the same is mine too ,thats > > why I > > > continue in this forum,of not cheating the public with false > > pretends.Leave > > > aside the mongers who mint money out of remedies. > > > Otherwise Sanatji,frankly speaking by heart, I cant understand what > > are you > > > out to. > > > > > > Thank you for your wishes to me.I have come here on the invitation > > and the > > > expenses of people here who called me to teach KP.So I may not find > > time > > > rather I dont want to waste their time by communicating long hours. > > > Thank you for your kind attention and hope to see and communicate > > to you > > > after my return to India. > > > With warm regards, > > > tkp ghopal > > > NB: > > > kindly inform AKKji that I dont know Sanskrit.He has admonished me > > for using > > > an extra 'h' in my name.My Tamil is more prominent and sister > > language to > > > Sanskrit ,even as old as 'brahiritham' and still alive ,not dead > > like > > > sanskrit.In Tamil, no questions asked whether I use an extra h or > > > not,because it is not relevent. > > > tkp > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/9/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ghopal Ji and members, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Regarding your msg to Sh Kaul ji, (dt 5-11-8), I will like to > > express > > > > my view on some points. > > > > Perhaps Sh. Kaul ji is referring KP as 'hotch-potch' system, > > because > > > > it is using western system of aspect (with friendship enmity > > system > > > > ie +ve and –ve affect), their own ayanansh, their house system > is > > > > different from traditional system by about 15 deg., significator > > > > system is a reverse copy of Vinshottary dasha, sign and sign lord, > > > > exaltation has been opted from traditional system and so on. > > Hence it > > > > is a mixture of both system. > > > > There is nothing wrong in mixing two systems for working out some > > > > socalled correct prediction. But again main question (which is the > > > > aim of the forum) is whether sign lord, exaltation, aspect etc. > > which > > > > is root content of these systems (predictive astrology) are > > correct > > > > or not. There correctness can only be assessed if any member will > > > > come out with any explanation as to how they were formulated, what > > > > initial information was used, whether that information was > > correct, > > > > whether procedure was logical (if not scientifical), are they > > require > > > > any change and so on. I am continuously raising this point but > > not a > > > > single socalled expert astrologers are offering any remote > > > > explanation (forget about some solid reasons, though I have > > written > > > > every thing in detail in my book). So in my opinion, when basic > > > > ingredient of any system (principle) is not correct then how end > > > > product (prediction) may be correct. . However, this much I can > > > > assure you that not a single principle was formulated with some > > > > divine power but every principle `was' correct and logical in > > view of > > > > the then science and every principle `is' wrong and illogical in > > view > > > > of present scientific knowledge. > > > > > > > > >>>>>I find it scientific because we can reason out for any > > > > prediction we give.<<<<< NO, any thing can not be termed as > > > > scientific only by offering any reason. If you ask any question > > with > > > > a child (answer of which he is not supposed to know) even then he > > > > will explain every thing and he has sufficient reason for > > believing > > > > that. But by this, his concept may not be termed as scientific. > > For > > > > terming any astrological principle as scientifically supported, we > > > > must have answers on various points (above para ). > > > > > > > > Glad to know that you are going to Malaysia. Hope you will > > continue > > > > to offer your comments. My best wishes for spreading your mindset > > > > (not knowledge). > > > > > > > > Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic discussion. > > > > I hope members will offer their comments. > > > > > > > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > PS > > > > > > > > It would have been better if Sh muthuram kumar may have offered > > some > > > > solid comments in support of predictive astrology or on various > > > > points raised in the forum instead of throwing useless sentences. > > I > > > > hope he will come out with some solid arguments. We must remember > > > > that it also requires some time and energy to read and write > > useless > > > > sentences. > > > > > > > > <% > > 40>, > > > > " TKP Ghopal " > > > > <astrogopalji@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr.AKK JI > > > > > THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KIND MAIL TO ME. > > > > > I had gone thro many of your mails and came to know of your vast > > > > knowledge > > > > > in the Veda. > > > > > I stand absolutely nothing infront of you as far as Veda and > > Vedic > > > > are > > > > > concerned. > > > > > I assume you might be an elderly person too.( I am only 58) > > > > > > > > > > One has to win his bread is more essential than celebrating > > > > festivals at > > > > > right time and day. > > > > > I am still running to win my bread hence I cant debate with > > whether > > > > the > > > > > Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day or a day before that.If you > > > > come to > > > > > know that on Diwali day in a small village of around 1200 > > > > population nearly > > > > > 1ton > > > > > of goat ,sheep and chiken were cut to use by people. > > > > > So celebration is eating and enjoying for some.They don't care > > it > > > > is on this > > > > > day or that day. > > > > > > > > > > You are having a very little knowledge about KP system,the so > > called > > > > > 'hotch-potch'system. > > > > > If my friends come to know that you used these words they would > > > > charge you > > > > > for using filthy language on KP. > > > > > I find it scientific because we can reason out for any > > prediction > > > > we give. > > > > > If you think that I am Vedic,I am very sorry AKKji,I am an > > outsider > > > > to > > > > > vedas,totally. > > > > > You had been already mentioning in another mail too that number > > > > from 1 to > > > > > 254....its not 254 but 249. > > > > > It is not a number picked up from nowhere ,there is a very > > strong > > > > thesis > > > > > behind it. > > > > > Sh.Sanatji has a deep knowledge about KP. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway leave me aside AKKji. > > > > > > > > > > I am not interested to debate.Whenever I find time between > > clients > > > > I go thro > > > > > few mails pateintly and observe what are you all doing.I gather > > > > one thing > > > > > that you all have lot and lots time to be on internet. > > > > > > > > > > Well I would propose you one thing here that you can join my KP > > > > classes and > > > > > I am sure you will change your stance.That too not now only > > after 3 > > > > > months,because I ve been invited by a Malysian to go to > > Malaysia to > > > > conduct > > > > > KP classes for 3 months and I just received my onward and return > > > > E.tickets > > > > > from him,leaving on 7th Nov.08. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > With great Regards for your experiance. > > > > > tkp ghopal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/3/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri T K P Ghopalji, > > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > < I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.> > > > > > > In an off-line communication to the Moderator of this forum, > > I had > > > > > > said specifically that it is immaterial as to who asks what > > > > questions > > > > > > so long as they are related to predictive gimmicks known as > > > > astrology. > > > > > > But what is material is as to whether those questions are > > asked > > > > as an > > > > > > exchange of ideas/knowledge or just to use such filthy > > language > > > > that > > > > > > the " respondent " finds it disgusting to reply such posts. > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, let us take the first question of the post of > > Shri > > > > Bhaskar > > > > > > <*1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN > > LEO, LR > > > > > > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. PROVE > > THT > > > > > > THEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*> > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, this question is applicable to you more than to > > anybody > > > > else > > > > > > since you are using KP system which is just a hotch-potch of > > so > > > > many > > > > > > systems! Obviously, you had become disgusted with all the > > systems > > > > of > > > > > > BV Raman, BABAJI etc. etc. that you had to switch over to KP-- > > -a > > > > > > system not more than a century old in any case! > > > > > > > > > > > > You have said further > > > > > > <What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the > > > > > > appropriate time?> > > > > > > This question deserves a " Nobel prize " ! One thing is, however, > > > > clear > > > > > > from the same that at least you have also come to realize > > that it > > > > is > > > > > > only because of the fraud called Vedic astrology that we are > > > > > > celebrating all our festivals, including Divali, on wrong > > days! > > > > And > > > > > > you want that instead of banishing anti-Vedic " Vedic > > astrology " we > > > > > > must stop celebrating our festivals on correct days and > > follow the > > > > > > ditates of Lahiris and Lahirwalas! > > > > > > AND THAT IS WHY I SAY THAT OUR BUDHI HAS GOT ENVELOPED BY > > TAMOGUNA > > > > > > COMPLETELY---SINCE YOU ARE PREPARED TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS TO > > DEFEND > > > > > > " VEIDIC ASTROLOGY " EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO " GIVE TILANJALI " TO > > YOUR > > > > DHARMA! > > > > > > My counter question is why celebrate any festivals at all! Is > > it > > > > only > > > > > > because then you cannot exhibit to the whole world the non- > > > > existent > > > > > > " Vedic astrology " ? > > > > > > > > > > > > You have also said > > > > > > <Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its > > > > > > celebrated on Chathudasi,the previous day> > > > > > > I do not know what criteria you are talking about! Pl. quote > > the > > > > > > exact source of your information--full references. > > > > > > > > > > > > You have also said > > > > > > < Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's > > > > affairs. > > > > > > Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have not at all perused my reply to your post > > via > > > > my > > > > > > mail No.423 of September 12. I am quoting a part of the same > > for > > > > > > ready reference and that should answer your question as to > > why I > > > > am > > > > > > dead against predictive gimmicks in the name of " Vedic > > astrology " > > > > > > Here are the relevant paragraphs > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote > > > > > > < Though your language and derivations are pretty good I dont > > > > > > understand why on the name of heaven you are throwing mud on > > > > > > astrology.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have observed by now that I am silent about the > > > > various > > > > > > other types of predictive gimmicks like Tarot, Palmistry, > > > > > > physiognomy etc. etc. That does not mean that I accept all of > > them > > > > > > as science! No. Absolutely not! However, none of > > those " methods " > > > > > > lays a claim to have emanated from the Vedas or any other > > Hindu > > > > > > shastras! For the same reason, I am just silent about KP > > system--- > > > > > > it is a hotch-potch of something of the sayana (Placidus House > > > > > > systdem) plus something of nirayana (Planets and rashis) plus > > some > > > > > > numerology (numbers from 1 to 254) and what not! It is > > immaterial > > > > > > to me whether it is a science or an art or a fraud so long as > > it > > > > > > does not claim to be an " offshoot " of the Vedas or some other > > > > Hindu > > > > > > scripture! > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, whatever I have said against astrology is on the basis > > of > > > > the > > > > > > Vedas, Smritis, Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc. This is evident > > from my > > > > > > various posts. None of our shastras has advised us to consult > > > > > > jyotishis! On the other hand, Yudishthira was advised by > > Bhishma > > > > > > Pitamaha to treat a nakshatra-soochi brahmana as a chandala! > > Why? > > > > > > Because it is neither a science nor an art but just a way of > > > > making > > > > > > a fool of a gullible person! Above all, it has no basis in > > any of > > > > > > our shastras! > > > > > > > > > > > > The most damaging result of our fatal infatuation with " Vedic > > > > > > astrology " has been that we are celebrating all our festivals > > and > > > > > > muhurtas on wrong days! Hence it is the duty of every real > > Hindu > > > > to > > > > > > be as scornful for this fraud known as " Vedic astrology " as is > > > > > > humanly possible and to follow the instructions of Bhishma > > > > Pitamaha! > > > > > > > > > > > > As to how we are celebrating our festivals on wrong days will > > be > > > > > > clear from the paper " 08-09.pdf " being uploaded in the files > > > > section! " > > > > > > Unquote. > > > > > > Dhanyavad. > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > --- In <% > > 40> > > > > <% > > > > 40>, > > > > > > " TKP Ghopal " > > > > > > <astrogopalji@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji > > > > > > > *LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI* . > > > > > > > I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions. > > > > > > > Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.? > > > > > > > An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned > > man.A > > > > > > learned man > > > > > > > never slanders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on the > > > > appropriate > > > > > > > time? > > > > > > > Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and its > > > > > > celebrated on > > > > > > > Chathudasi,the previous day > > > > > > > of amavasya in south India. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on > > some new > > > > > > clothes and > > > > > > > eat (unwanted for some) > > > > > > > sweets and savouries and get indigestion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal human's > > > > affairs. > > > > > > > Who bothers about it other than astrologers ? > > > > > > > Those astrologers also slandering between them?!?! > > > > > > > Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter > > attack! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apprecciate your intention of getting more into astrology. > > > > > > > But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of > > > > conversations,I > > > > > > > suppose. > > > > > > > Kindly look into it if you feel I am right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With kind Regards > > > > > > > tkp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/28/08, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Avtar,* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN > > LEO, > > > > LR > > > > > > > > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. > > PROVE > > > > THT > > > > > > THEIR > > > > > > > > RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE > > JYOTISH > > > > FORUMS > > > > > > IN MY > > > > > > > > LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE > > WRONG. > > > > OR > > > > > > PROVE THAT > > > > > > > > THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE THAT > > THEY > > > > ARE > > > > > > ALL FAKE > > > > > > > > IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU GIVE > > ME > > > > OF HAVING > > > > > > > > ANSWERED A FAKE ID. * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE WRONG.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL > > DATES, > > > > AND THE > > > > > > > > OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE > > REST ARE > > > > > > IDIOTS.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ACTUALLY.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *BHASKAR. * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > TKP Ghopal > > > > > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > > > > > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > > > > > > > 93666 23444 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > TKP Ghopal > > > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > > > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > > > > > 93666 23444 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > TKP Ghopal > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > > > 93666 23444 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Dear respected pandit kaul ji Namaskar U taught me all ramayana and u r asking who is seetha ji u yourself are telling vedic literature has lot of interpolations ,mutilations and even additions .then asking me to find first nakshastas ,then planets ,then rasies ,then dasas then every thing in astrology .even after i keep on repeatedly telling vedas r not text book of astrology nor astronomy nor kamasastra ,nor mettulurgy nor architecture etc etc .( even i pointed out full vedas not avilable i request u to consider secret traditions ,oral tradition of gurukulas etc ) ,but u r reluctant see it in inteligible way ,so wat i can do ,except respect u age . (Any person who has some masala in brain can know how astro survived even after 1000s of yrs of all this problems india faced ,why all other cultures u ppl were religiously supporting ,did not carry on ( how a dupllicate can stay for long time ) because their common culture was not in tally with it and also it was adopted by them after interacting with bharath because of intellectual superiority .There is 1000s of proofs other students frm all over world visited india only for studies .where as we never went any were .) but a intelligent person assume when speak of rathas he can relate it to various devlpment a man can made during those days than asking abt which metal used,u proove it or did they invent wheel etc etc and 1000s of other questions related to it . as if u r asking me to re invent wheel or fire i asked u a very imp question ,still not answered by u did u support the arguement of shri sanat ji the most enlightened soul in our grp ( on his astronomical commnts i want ur opinions ) messge no is 870 i am waiting for ur answers i respect u because of age .Not because u r asking same questions even after so many memebrs pointed out so many books regrding marriage matchting ( i read in this group ) and u were reluctant to see it ,tho u claim u read all books frm cover to cover and u were mentioning some books which deals with basics of astrology to the level of predictions ,even that books dont deal with prashna or muhurtha or even ganita part of astrology ,which is written assuming others know abt it ,it is applicable to any books ,A Bachelor level book need not has 2+2 is 4 like formulas ,same way a PHD level book deals assuming the readers know other things and narrates more higher levels . (so visit motilal banarsi das co for some books ,or atleast get prashnamaarga ,if u hav a will there is a way ) so i can use with a respected addressing only ,u like it or not ,just because u may b almost 3 times my age . we r taught like that only in our families . with most regrds prashanth nair , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Prashanth Nairji,> Namaskar!> < i would like to know Your opinion on the vedic seer bashing and > trashing in this post.>> > When I frist read the statements of Dr. M. N. Saha and S. B. Dikshit > etc. that there were no Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis or Mangal, Shani > etc. planets in any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha, I was mad > with rage that they were "bashing" the Vedas and other scriptures and > they certainly must have been influenced/hypnotized by Xtians! All > along I was wondering as to how stalwarts and pious people like Dr. > B. V. Raman could be wrong since he was declaring from housetops that > nirayana predictive astrology was Vedic and even foreigners > like "Vamadeva" and Indian "Parasharas" were repeating the same thing > from every pulpit! Even K N Rao was also singing in the same tune! > After all, all of them could not be wrong---that is what I thought! > And I could not imagine for a moment that all these scholars could be > claiming nirayana astrology to be Vedic without having gone through > the Vedas themselves!> > As such, I decided to take the bull by the horns and prove that Dr. > Saha and S. B. Dikshit etc. were absolutely wrong! I could do so > only if I could quote the exact chapter and verse of the relevant > Veda which had talked about horoscopes and Dasha-bhuktis etc. I went > through all the Vedas very assiduously, but somehow, could not find > the mention of any Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashi or Mangal, Shani etc. > planets in any of the Vedas! I had, naturally, to agree with Dr. > Saha and S. B. Dikshit etc. that there were no Mesha etc. Rashis or > Mangal, Shani etc. planets in any of the Vedas or the VJ!> But I continued my research further and arrived at the conclusion > that it is not only that there are no predictive gimmicks in the > Vedas, but somehow, because of that very "Vedic astrology", we > were/are celebratig all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days! > That is what Dr. Saha and other members of the Saha Calendar Reform > Committee also had observed! > Unfortunately, however, it was because of selfish people like late N. > C. Lahiri, who was the Secretary of the Saha Committee, that the > efforts of the Committee to streamline the Hindu calendar proved a > miserable failure! And N. C. Lahiri had the support of all > the "Vedic astrologers" to scuttle the calendar reform, because the > so called Sayana Rashis would have proved that all the "Vedic > astrologers" were following a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra for > proving their astrological skills!> > And now that I am pointing out all such anachronisms in the Hindu > calendar because of predictive gimmicks known as "Vedic astrology", I > am being clubbed as a "convert" who is "intersted in bashing our > ancestors". It is also being said that I am getting funds from some > Xtian Churches for "bashing Vedic astrology"!> > That much about bashing of "Vedic astrology".> > Now about the Puranas etc.> > When I read the Satyartha Prakasha by Swami Dayanada Saraswati first, > I was aghast as to how ruthlessly he had "bashed" some statements in > some of the Puranas! However, when I pondered on the points he had > raised, I was dumbfounded since he had said "Truth and nothing but > Truth". There are certain irreconilables in the Puranas which are > interpolations!> Swami Dayananda Saraswati also has "bashed" predictive gimmicks > mercilessly, and because I also was/am doing a similar thing, quite > a few "Vedic astrologers" thought that I was also an Arya Samaji---> which I am not---as I am no iconoclast!> > Anyway, since we are talking right now only in terms of > astronomy/astrology in this forum, let me give you just two examples:> > 1. Narada Purana is supposed to be the "beacon-light" of Vedic > astrologers as there are quite a few astrological and astronomicle > principes in the same! When I went through that Purana from cover to > cover, I was really flabbergasted to find that that Purana had given > the astronomical parameters of the Surya Sidhanta as it is---without > batting an eyelid! The height of folly of the compiler of that > Purana is that for deciding the Ayanamsha, he has quoted the > shlokas "trimshat kritva yuge bhanam...." also from the Surya > Sidhanta! As is common knowlege by now, those shlokas are an > interpolation of post Munjala era--about 10th century AD! And the > Hindi translator of that Purana of Gita Press, Gorakhpur, has > even "proved" that that is the Ayanamsha which tallies almost exactly > with that of late N. C. Lahiri! > All I can say is that the translator is an idiot of first order since > he does not know even ABC of astronomy, whether sidhantic or modern, > as otherwise, he would never have misinterpreted those interpolated > shlokas in such a clumsy manner!> As such, it is really the "most unkindest cut"---not only is there an > interpolation in the Naranada Purana from the Surya Sidhanta---wha is > most pathetic is that the interpolated sholkas in the Narada Purana > are actually those sholkas that have been interploated in the Surya > Sidhantai.e. it is an interpolation of an interpolation! But somehow > it has been interpreted/translated in such a manner as to prove that > Lahiri Ayanamsha is the one presecribed by "Narada Purana".> > It also proves "beyond all the reasonable doubts" that Narada Purana > is actually a work of about eleventh century AD---At least the > jyotisha portion is!> > NOW THAT I HAVE POINTED OUT TO YOU SUCH A WHOLESALE FRAUD IN THE > NARADA PURANA, YOU MAY VERY WELL SAY THAT I AM "BASHING NARADA RISHI"> > Then let us take the example of Vishnu-dharmotara Purana!> This is what P. C. Sengupta has said on page xiv of his Introduction > to Ebenezer Burgess' translation of the Surya Sidhanta, "If we > examine the Paitamaha Sidhanta of the Vishdharmottara Purana, in the > way in which we have examined the S. Sidhanta, we readily come to the > conclusion that it represents almost a wholesale purloining of the > important portions of the Brahmasphuta Sidhanta of Brahmagupta, and > that this nefarious act was done be a person who had absolutely no > pretension to originality and whose style of Sanskrit appears > ludicrous. A similar examinatoin of the Vriddha Vasishtha Sidhanta > would lead us to the conclusion that it was written by some unknown > person after the time of Bhaskara-II (12th century AD)".> So you may as well say that P C Sengupta had resorted to "bashing of > Vedic seers" since afer all, Paitamaha Sidhanta is supposed to have > been "revealed" by Pitamaha Brahma!> YOU MUST, IN THE MEANTIME, CONTINUE TO CELEBRATE ALL YOUR FESTIVALS > AND MUHURTAS ON WRONG DAYS---and go on hollering on the ones who > point out to you such anachronisms in "Vedic astrology" vis-a-vis > muhurtas! > With regards,> A K Kaul> > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > dear respected Kaul ji> > > > namaskar> > > > i would like to know Your opinion on the vedic seer bashing and > trashing> > in this post .> > > > i think u also support this .right ??> > > > if not i wanted to hear what is ur understanding on vedic astronomy> > > > > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > > > , "sanat2221"> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Ghopal Ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > I am not agreeing with your own assessment >>>>>> May be I dont > have> > > enough knowledge to explain what is science<<<<<<. Because every > one> > > who is educated may always apply his mind and try to think > logically.> > > This is science. I am of the opinion that our sages who were of > the> > > firm opinion that Earth is stationary and Sun is nearer then Moon > and> > > so on were also very logical in their findings hence it was also > the> > > then science. Problem is this that when we shut our doors of mind> > > then we become blind follower and in that case we do not want to > hear> > > anything which is against our mindset. Because in sub-conscious > mind> > > we think that our mind set is correct knowledge. Whereas mindset > is> > > fixed and knowledge is improving. So there is a vast gap in > between> > > them.> > >> > > So whenever knowledge of our sages is analyzed, everyone come > forward> > > with the mindset that how our sages may be wrong. But they forget> > > that we in the forum are not blaming the knowledge of our sages. > As I> > > have said earlier that I am of the firm opinion that they were > right> > > (but in view of the then knowledge). Suppose Boeing company may > start> > > to use the frame of cycle while constructing the Boeing, with the> > > argument that Wright Brothers were also using the cycle frame for> > > manufacturing the flying machine. Then do you think you may visit> > > Malayasia? And using the cycle frame in Boeing will definitely be > a> > > foolish thinking.> > >> > > In the same way all astrological principles were formulated on the> > > basis of the then knowledge about the universe (Madhya lok), > social> > > set up, Political set up, the then astronomical information > supported> > > by the society and found very logical and there was no any > question> > > which was not answered by them. So the knowledge of our sages were> > > science. Like, whatever knowledge is being gathered by Nasa is> > > science of 2008, But some of its knowledge is in initial stage, > which> > > is being supported by present knowledge and we have no question on> > > them but it may not be in the present form say after 100 years. So> > > can we term present knowledge as unscientific. NO. Our present> > > knowledge is science so long we are prepared to amend it.> > >> > > Thus our predictive astrological knowledge and principles are now> > > unscientific and supporting them is like support of cycle frame in> > > front of Boeing frame. So evaluate the knowledge of our sages in> > > right perspective and do not put them in a situation so we may be> > > regarded as blind follower. In view of this I commented for > spreading> > > your mindset (blindfaith) and not knowledge.> > >> > > If you support >>>>>> But you can make atleast your clients (if > not> > > everybody)content,make them feel at ease,give them happiness to > the> > > possible extent.<<<<<<< then where is the question of prediction.> > > With this arguments you are saying that astrologer must say that > they> > > are moral booster, counselor, psychologist and so on but not > fortune> > > teller. Then everything will be at right place. But it is not so.> > > Astrologers are predicting that so and so will happen without > knowing> > > the capability, education and other problems. Problems are being> > > created in marriages in the name of match making, many negative> > > predictions are being made to demoralize an individual and so on.> > > Thus I am not agree with your views.> > >> > > Regarding >>>>>>>>With little bit of knowledge people take up> > > astrology as a profession ,let them win their bread Sanatji.<<<< I> > > will like to say that I have no objection if they are earning > their> > > bread and butter. Many forums, astrologers are doing this, I have > no> > > objection. Let them earn from fools. But if a wine vendor is > selling> > > wine, I may have no objection, because he is also able to console> > > some problem of humanbeings. But when he publicize his business > that> > > by drinking wine your problems will be solved (due to dizziness) > or> > > you may get success (due to extra power) then it is my duty to > save> > > not drunkard, but to new generation and I have to teach them that > you> > > are not going to gain anything from wine vendor (astrologer), who > are> > > exploiting your ignorance in the name of science or vedic or > sages or> > > tradition and what not. Because we all have fallen in this pond, > only> > > due to publicity that by astrology we can know our future and it > is> > > very scientific and so on. But after putting in so many years I > came> > > to know that it is all fraud hence my two books have been > published> > > containing analysis of every principle in detail. Since five years> > > not a single astrologer has said that content and analysis of> > > principle is wrong.> > >> > >> > > >>>>>> You mean every astrologer must know how VIMSH.dasa > principle> > > is derived by the rishis or whoever has made it and all such > matters> > > like rahu-ketu etc,etc.<<<<<< YES, because so long a simple > vendor is> > > unknowingly selling wine thinking that it is tonic. It is good. > But> > > if he knows or have opportunity to know (through my book or> > > interaction) about his tonic (prediction) that it is not a tonic > but> > > it is wine and prepared with an outdated system (knowledge) then > if> > > he is mentally right then he will definitely try to know about the> > > content of so called tonic. Thus I am saying that when principles > are> > > formulated on outdated information then how you can support them. > You> > > can only support, because you (astrologer) do not know.> > >> > > >>>>>> I have come here on the invitation and the expenses of > people> > > here who called me to teach KP.<<<<<< because they think like many> > > others that KP brand tonic may solve their problem. But if you > teach> > > them that all signlord etc. principles were formulated on old > concept> > > which has been rejected by modern science then perhaps no one will> > > come forward to learn KP. But unfortunately astrologers are more> > > interested in money, prestige, reputation in comparison to social> > > service. Because you may have seen large show room of wine with > high> > > gentry or poor standing in queue to purchase a costly wine. But > fruit> > > vendor has to sell his fruit (which improves our healt) by > roaming in> > > every street. This is the world and you are also one of them.> > >> > > Thus it is up to an individual as to whether he support wine > vendor> > > (mindset, astrology) or social reformer.> > > Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic exchange of> > > views.> > >> > > Thanking you,> > > Yours truly,> > > Sanat> > >> > >> > > , "TKP Ghopal"> > > astrogopalji@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Sanatji Namaskar.> > > > I could not be online for somtime due to transit and non> > > availability of net> > > > at my end.> > > > I appreciate your quizzical comment> > > > "My best wishes for spreading your mindset (not knowledge)."> > > >> > > > May be I dont have enough knowledge to explain what is science.> > > >> > > > One has to be rational to be scientific.> > > > You probe on all the angles by asking 'n' number of > questions,like> > > putting> > > > it in the test tube and boil and add neccessary ingrediants to > test> > > what is> > > > in it.> > > > You can never go to lab with an astrological question.> > > > But you can probe it with many questions as to what is in it.> > > > If you want to become God being an astrologer,I am> > > sorry ,impossible.> > > > But you can make atleast your clients (if not everybody)> > > content,make them> > > > feel at ease,give them happiness to the possible extent.> > > > What are we heading for?> > > > To become God?> > > > You mean every astrologer must know how VIMSH.dasa principle is> > > derived by> > > > the rishis or whoever has made it and all such matters like > rahu-> > > ketu> > > > etc,etc.> > > > So the holes are more important than the pudding!> > > > With little bit of knowledge people take up astrology as a> > > profession ,let> > > > them win their bread Sanatji.> > > >> > > > I highly appreciate your tendency and the same is mine > too ,thats> > > why I> > > > continue in this forum,of not cheating the public with false> > > pretends.Leave> > > > aside the mongers who mint money out of remedies.> > > > Otherwise Sanatji,frankly speaking by heart, I cant understand > what> > > are you> > > > out to.> > > >> > > > Thank you for your wishes to me.I have come here on the > invitation> > > and the> > > > expenses of people here who called me to teach KP.So I may not > find> > > time> > > > rather I dont want to waste their time by communicating long > hours.> > > > Thank you for your kind attention and hope to see and > communicate> > > to you> > > > after my return to India.> > > > With warm regards,> > > > tkp ghopal> > > > NB:> > > > kindly inform AKKji that I dont know Sanskrit.He has admonished > me> > > for using> > > > an extra 'h' in my name.My Tamil is more prominent and sister> > > language to> > > > Sanskrit ,even as old as 'brahiritham' and still alive ,not dead> > > like> > > > sanskrit.In Tamil, no questions asked whether I use an extra h > or> > > > not,because it is not relevent.> > > > tkp> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > On 11/9/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Ghopal Ji and members,> > > > > Namaskar,> > > > > Regarding your msg to Sh Kaul ji, (dt 5-11-8), I will like to> > > express> > > > > my view on some points.> > > > > Perhaps Sh. Kaul ji is referring KP as 'hotch-potch' system,> > > because> > > > > it is using western system of aspect (with friendship enmity> > > system> > > > > ie +ve and –ve affect), their own ayanansh, their house system> > is> > > > > different from traditional system by about 15 deg., > significator> > > > > system is a reverse copy of Vinshottary dasha, sign and sign > lord,> > > > > exaltation has been opted from traditional system and so on.> > > Hence it> > > > > is a mixture of both system.> > > > > There is nothing wrong in mixing two systems for working out > some> > > > > socalled correct prediction. But again main question (which > is the> > > > > aim of the forum) is whether sign lord, exaltation, aspect > etc.> > > which> > > > > is root content of these systems (predictive astrology) are> > > correct> > > > > or not. There correctness can only be assessed if any member > will> > > > > come out with any explanation as to how they were formulated, > what> > > > > initial information was used, whether that information was> > > correct,> > > > > whether procedure was logical (if not scientifical), are they> > > require> > > > > any change and so on. I am continuously raising this point but> > > not a> > > > > single socalled expert astrologers are offering any remote> > > > > explanation (forget about some solid reasons, though I have> > > written> > > > > every thing in detail in my book). So in my opinion, when > basic> > > > > ingredient of any system (principle) is not correct then how > end> > > > > product (prediction) may be correct. . However, this much I > can> > > > > assure you that not a single principle was formulated with > some> > > > > divine power but every principle `was' correct and logical in> > > view of> > > > > the then science and every principle `is' wrong and illogical > in> > > view> > > > > of present scientific knowledge.> > > > >> > > > > >>>>>I find it scientific because we can reason out for any> > > > > prediction we give.<<<<< NO, any thing can not be termed as> > > > > scientific only by offering any reason. If you ask any > question> > > with> > > > > a child (answer of which he is not supposed to know) even > then he> > > > > will explain every thing and he has sufficient reason for> > > believing> > > > > that. But by this, his concept may not be termed as > scientific.> > > For> > > > > terming any astrological principle as scientifically > supported, we> > > > > must have answers on various points (above para ).> > > > >> > > > > Glad to know that you are going to Malaysia. Hope you will> > > continue> > > > > to offer your comments. My best wishes for spreading your > mindset> > > > > (not knowledge).> > > > >> > > > > Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic > discussion.> > > > > I hope members will offer their comments.> > > > >> > > > > Yours truly,> > > > > Sanat> > > > >> > > > > PS> > > > >> > > > > It would have been better if Sh muthuram kumar may have > offered> > > some> > > > > solid comments in support of predictive astrology or on > various> > > > > points raised in the forum instead of throwing useless > sentences.> > > I> > > > > hope he will come out with some solid arguments. We must > remember> > > > > that it also requires some time and energy to read and write> > > useless> > > > > sentences.> > > > >> > > > > <%> > > 40>,> > > > > "TKP Ghopal"> > > > > <astrogopalji@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Mr.AKK JI> > > > > > THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KIND MAIL TO ME.> > > > > > I had gone thro many of your mails and came to know of your > vast> > > > > knowledge> > > > > > in the Veda.> > > > > > I stand absolutely nothing infront of you as far as Veda and> > > Vedic> > > > > are> > > > > > concerned.> > > > > > I assume you might be an elderly person too.( I am only 58)> > > > > >> > > > > > One has to win his bread is more essential than celebrating> > > > > festivals at> > > > > > right time and day.> > > > > > I am still running to win my bread hence I cant debate with> > > whether> > > > > the> > > > > > Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day or a day before > that.If you> > > > > come to> > > > > > know that on Diwali day in a small village of around 1200> > > > > population nearly> > > > > > 1ton> > > > > > of goat ,sheep and chiken were cut to use by people.> > > > > > So celebration is eating and enjoying for some.They don't > care> > > it> > > > > is on this> > > > > > day or that day.> > > > > >> > > > > > You are having a very little knowledge about KP system,the > so> > > called> > > > > > 'hotch-potch'system.> > > > > > If my friends come to know that you used these words they > would> > > > > charge you> > > > > > for using filthy language on KP.> > > > > > I find it scientific because we can reason out for any> > > prediction> > > > > we give.> > > > > > If you think that I am Vedic,I am very sorry AKKji,I am an> > > outsider> > > > > to> > > > > > vedas,totally.> > > > > > You had been already mentioning in another mail too that > number> > > > > from 1 to> > > > > > 254....its not 254 but 249.> > > > > > It is not a number picked up from nowhere ,there is a very> > > strong> > > > > thesis> > > > > > behind it.> > > > > > Sh.Sanatji has a deep knowledge about KP.> > > > > >> > > > > > Anyway leave me aside AKKji.> > > > > >> > > > > > I am not interested to debate.Whenever I find time between> > > clients> > > > > I go thro> > > > > > few mails pateintly and observe what are you all doing.I > gather> > > > > one thing> > > > > > that you all have lot and lots time to be on internet.> > > > > >> > > > > > Well I would propose you one thing here that you can join > my KP> > > > > classes and> > > > > > I am sure you will change your stance.That too not now only> > > after 3> > > > > > months,because I ve been invited by a Malysian to go to> > > Malaysia to> > > > > conduct> > > > > > KP classes for 3 months and I just received my onward and > return> > > > > E.tickets> > > > > > from him,leaving on 7th Nov.08.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thank you> > > > > > With great Regards for your experiance.> > > > > > tkp ghopal> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On 11/3/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Shri T K P Ghopalji,> > > > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > > > < I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.>> > > > > > > In an off-line communication to the Moderator of this > forum,> > > I had> > > > > > > said specifically that it is immaterial as to who asks > what> > > > > questions> > > > > > > so long as they are related to predictive gimmicks known > as> > > > > astrology.> > > > > > > But what is material is as to whether those questions are> > > asked> > > > > as an> > > > > > > exchange of ideas/knowledge or just to use such filthy> > > language> > > > > that> > > > > > > the "respondent" finds it disgusting to reply such posts.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > For example, let us take the first question of the post of> > > Shri> > > > > Bhaskar> > > > > > > <*1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN> > > LEO, LR> > > > > > > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. > PROVE> > > THT> > > > > > > THEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In fact, this question is applicable to you more than to> > > anybody> > > > > else> > > > > > > since you are using KP system which is just a hotch-potch > of> > > so> > > > > many> > > > > > > systems! Obviously, you had become disgusted with all the> > > systems> > > > > of> > > > > > > BV Raman, BABAJI etc. etc. that you had to switch over to > KP--> > > -a> > > > > > > system not more than a century old in any case!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > You have said further> > > > > > > <What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on > the> > > > > > > appropriate time?>> > > > > > > This question deserves a "Nobel prize"! One thing is, > however,> > > > > clear> > > > > > > from the same that at least you have also come to realize> > > that it> > > > > is> > > > > > > only because of the fraud called Vedic astrology that we > are> > > > > > > celebrating all our festivals, including Divali, on wrong> > > days!> > > > > And> > > > > > > you want that instead of banishing anti-Vedic "Vedic> > > astrology" we> > > > > > > must stop celebrating our festivals on correct days and> > > follow the> > > > > > > ditates of Lahiris and Lahirwalas!> > > > > > > AND THAT IS WHY I SAY THAT OUR BUDHI HAS GOT ENVELOPED BY> > > TAMOGUNA> > > > > > > COMPLETELY---SINCE YOU ARE PREPARED TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS > TO> > > DEFEND> > > > > > > "VEIDIC ASTROLOGY" EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO "GIVE TILANJALI" TO> > > YOUR> > > > > DHARMA!> > > > > > > My counter question is why celebrate any festivals at > all! Is> > > it> > > > > only> > > > > > > because then you cannot exhibit to the whole world the > non-> > > > > existent> > > > > > > "Vedic astrology"?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > You have also said> > > > > > > <Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and > its> > > > > > > celebrated on Chathudasi,the previous day>> > > > > > > I do not know what criteria you are talking about! Pl. > quote> > > the> > > > > > > exact source of your information--full references.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > You have also said> > > > > > > < Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal > human's> > > > > affairs.> > > > > > > Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > It appears you have not at all perused my reply to your > post> > > via> > > > > my> > > > > > > mail No.423 of September 12. I am quoting a part of the > same> > > for> > > > > > > ready reference and that should answer your question as to> > > why I> > > > > am> > > > > > > dead against predictive gimmicks in the name of "Vedic> > > astrology"> > > > > > > Here are the relevant paragraphs> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Quote> > > > > > > < Though your language and derivations are pretty good I > dont> > > > > > > understand why on the name of heaven you are throwing mud > on> > > > > > > astrology.>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Perhaps you have observed by now that I am silent about > the> > > > > various> > > > > > > other types of predictive gimmicks like Tarot, Palmistry,> > > > > > > physiognomy etc. etc. That does not mean that I accept > all of> > > them> > > > > > > as science! No. Absolutely not! However, none of> > > those "methods"> > > > > > > lays a claim to have emanated from the Vedas or any other> > > Hindu> > > > > > > shastras! For the same reason, I am just silent about KP> > > system---> > > > > > > it is a hotch-potch of something of the sayana (Placidus > House> > > > > > > systdem) plus something of nirayana (Planets and rashis) > plus> > > some> > > > > > > numerology (numbers from 1 to 254) and what not! It is> > > immaterial> > > > > > > to me whether it is a science or an art or a fraud so > long as> > > it> > > > > > > does not claim to be an "offshoot" of the Vedas or some > other> > > > > Hindu> > > > > > > scripture!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thus, whatever I have said against astrology is on the > basis> > > of> > > > > the> > > > > > > Vedas, Smritis, Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc. This is evident> > > from my> > > > > > > various posts. None of our shastras has advised us to > consult> > > > > > > jyotishis! On the other hand, Yudishthira was advised by> > > Bhishma> > > > > > > Pitamaha to treat a nakshatra-soochi brahmana as a > chandala!> > > Why?> > > > > > > Because it is neither a science nor an art but just a way > of> > > > > making> > > > > > > a fool of a gullible person! Above all, it has no basis in> > > any of> > > > > > > our shastras!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The most damaging result of our fatal infatuation > with "Vedic> > > > > > > astrology" has been that we are celebrating all our > festivals> > > and> > > > > > > muhurtas on wrong days! Hence it is the duty of every real> > > Hindu> > > > > to> > > > > > > be as scornful for this fraud known as "Vedic astrology" > as is> > > > > > > humanly possible and to follow the instructions of Bhishma> > > > > Pitamaha!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > As to how we are celebrating our festivals on wrong days > will> > > be> > > > > > > clear from the paper "08-09.pdf" being uploaded in the > files> > > > > section!"> > > > > > > Unquote.> > > > > > > Dhanyavad.> > > > > > > AKK> > > > > > > > <%> > > 40>> > > > > <%> > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > "TKP Ghopal"> > > > > > > <astrogopalji@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji> > > > > > > > *LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI* .> > > > > > > > I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.> > > > > > > > Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.?> > > > > > > > An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned> > > man.A> > > > > > > learned man> > > > > > > > never slanders.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals > on the> > > > > appropriate> > > > > > > > time?> > > > > > > > Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and > its> > > > > > > celebrated on> > > > > > > > Chathudasi,the previous day> > > > > > > > of amavasya in south India.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on> > > some new> > > > > > > clothes and> > > > > > > > eat (unwanted for some)> > > > > > > > sweets and savouries and get indigestion.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal > human's> > > > > affairs.> > > > > > > > Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?> > > > > > > > Those astrologers also slandering between them?!?!> > > > > > > > Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter> > > attack!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I apprecciate your intention of getting more into > astrology.> > > > > > > > But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of> > > > > conversations,I> > > > > > > > suppose.> > > > > > > > Kindly look into it if you feel I am right.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > With kind Regards> > > > > > > > tkp> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On 10/28/08, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > *Avtar,*> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > *1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, > ALAN> > > LEO,> > > > > LR> > > > > > > > > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL > FAKE.> > > PROVE> > > > > THT> > > > > > > THEIR> > > > > > > > > RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > *2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE> > > JYOTISH> > > > > FORUMS> > > > > > > IN MY> > > > > > > > > LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE> > > WRONG.> > > > > OR> > > > > > > PROVE THAT> > > > > > > > > THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE > THAT> > > THEY> > > > > ARE> > > > > > > ALL FAKE> > > > > > > > > IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU > GIVE> > > ME> > > > > OF HAVING> > > > > > > > > ANSWERED A FAKE ID. *> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > *3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE > WRONG.*> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > *4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.*> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > *5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL> > > DATES,> > > > > AND THE> > > > > > > > > OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.*> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > *6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE> > > REST ARE> > > > > > > IDIOTS.*> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > *7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY > ACTUALLY.*> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > *BHASKAR. *> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --> > > > > > > > TKP Ghopal> > > > > > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> > > > > > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001> > > > > > > > 93666 23444> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --> > > > > > TKP Ghopal> > > > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> > > > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001> > > > > > 93666 23444> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > --> > > > TKP Ghopal> > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001> > > > 93666 23444> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Shri Prashanth Nairji, Namaskar! <even after i keep on repeatedly telling vedas r not text book of astrology nor astronomy nor kamasastra ,nor mettulurgy nor architecture etc etc .( even i pointed out full vedas not avilable i request u to consider secret traditions ,oral tradition of gurukulas etc ) ,but u r reluctant see it in inteligible way ,so wat i can do ,except respect u age .> I wish you had read the Vedas yourself instead of going by who is saying what is or isn't in the Vedas! In any case, when there are no Rashis in any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha, nor are there the most malefic planets like Mangal and Shani, it is virtually showing the greatest disrespect to the Vedic seers to call any predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " , especially as the Vedic ethos goes just by Purushartha and not by " bhagyam phalati sarvatra no vidya na chai paurusham " . Just to summarize its history, till a few decades back, Indian astrology was known as Hindu astrology and is supposed to have been rechristened as " Vedic astrology " by some " Swamiji " of ISKCON. That post of that " Swamiji " claiming the credit for re-naming Hindu jyotish as Vedic jyotish is available in HinduCalendar forum. During a lecture in Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan, New Delhi, to the students of " Vedic astrology " , the overseas " Vamadeva " said that Jyotish was rechristened as " Vedic astrology " since there would be more demand for any predictive gimmicks in overseas markets if they were named as " Vedic astrology " . I was present during that lecture at the BVB. Shri K. N. Rao's views that " Vedic astrology " is not really Vedic are available in one of the posts in this forum. There was a also post of overseas " Vamadeva " reproduced in IndiaDivine.org, in which " Vamadeva " had dis-associated himself from the " nama-karana " of Hindu jyotish! In fact, to the best of my memory, he had held late Dr. B. V. Raman responsible for allowing " Vedic astrology " to be coined wrongly for something which did not exist even in a rudeimentary form in the Vedas, since Dr. Raman was supposed to be a scholar of the Vedas also. Hope that clarifies the position. Dhanyavad. AKK , " prashanthnair999 " <prashanthnair999 wrote: > > > > > Dear respected pandit kaul ji > > > > Namaskar > > > > U taught me all ramayana and u r asking who is seetha ji > > u yourself are telling vedic literature has lot of interpolations > ,mutilations and even additions .then asking me to find first nakshastas > ,then planets ,then rasies ,then dasas then every thing in astrology > .even after i keep on repeatedly telling vedas r not text book of > astrology nor astronomy nor kamasastra ,nor mettulurgy nor architecture > etc etc .( even i pointed out full vedas not avilable i request u to > consider secret traditions ,oral tradition of gurukulas etc ) ,but u r > reluctant see it in inteligible way ,so wat i can do ,except respect u > age . > > (Any person who has some masala in brain can know how astro survived > even after 1000s of yrs of all this problems india faced ,why all other > cultures u ppl were religiously supporting ,did not carry on ( how a > dupllicate can stay for long time ) because their common culture was not > in tally with it and also it was adopted by them after interacting with > bharath because of intellectual superiority .There is 1000s of proofs > other students frm all over world visited india only for studies .where > as we never went any were .) > > > > but a intelligent person assume when speak of rathas he can relate it > to various devlpment a man can made during those days than asking abt > which metal used,u proove it or did they invent wheel etc etc and 1000s > of other questions related to it . > > > > as if u r asking me to re invent wheel or fire > > > > i asked u a very imp question ,still not answered by u > > > > did u support the arguement of shri sanat ji the most enlightened soul > in our grp ( on his astronomical commnts i want ur opinions ) > > messge no is 870 > > > > i am waiting for ur answers > > > > i respect u because of age .Not because u r asking same questions even > after so many memebrs pointed out so many books regrding marriage > matchting ( i read in this group ) and u were reluctant to see it ,tho u > claim u read all books frm cover to cover and u were mentioning some > books which deals with basics of astrology to the level of predictions > ,even that books dont deal with prashna or muhurtha or even ganita part > of astrology ,which is written assuming others know abt it ,it is > applicable to any books ,A Bachelor level book need not has 2+2 is 4 > like formulas ,same way a PHD level book deals assuming the readers know > other things and narrates more higher levels . > > (so visit motilal banarsi das co for some books ,or atleast get > prashnamaarga ,if u hav a will there is a way ) > > > > so i can use with a respected addressing only ,u like it or not ,just > because u may b almost 3 times my age . > > > > we r taught like that only in our families . > > > > with most regrds > > prashanth nair > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > > Namaskar! > > < i would like to know Your opinion on the vedic seer bashing and > > trashing in this post.> > > > > When I frist read the statements of Dr. M. N. Saha and S. B. Dikshit > > etc. that there were no Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis or Mangal, Shani > > etc. planets in any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha, I was mad > > with rage that they were " bashing " the Vedas and other scriptures and > > they certainly must have been influenced/hypnotized by Xtians! All > > along I was wondering as to how stalwarts and pious people like Dr. > > B. V. Raman could be wrong since he was declaring from housetops that > > nirayana predictive astrology was Vedic and even foreigners > > like " Vamadeva " and Indian " Parasharas " were repeating the same thing > > from every pulpit! Even K N Rao was also singing in the same tune! > > After all, all of them could not be wrong---that is what I thought! > > And I could not imagine for a moment that all these scholars could be > > claiming nirayana astrology to be Vedic without having gone through > > the Vedas themselves! > > > > As such, I decided to take the bull by the horns and prove that Dr. > > Saha and S. B. Dikshit etc. were absolutely wrong! I could do so > > only if I could quote the exact chapter and verse of the relevant > > Veda which had talked about horoscopes and Dasha-bhuktis etc. I went > > through all the Vedas very assiduously, but somehow, could not find > > the mention of any Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashi or Mangal, Shani etc. > > planets in any of the Vedas! I had, naturally, to agree with Dr. > > Saha and S. B. Dikshit etc. that there were no Mesha etc. Rashis or > > Mangal, Shani etc. planets in any of the Vedas or the VJ! > > But I continued my research further and arrived at the conclusion > > that it is not only that there are no predictive gimmicks in the > > Vedas, but somehow, because of that very " Vedic astrology " , we > > were/are celebratig all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days! > > That is what Dr. Saha and other members of the Saha Calendar Reform > > Committee also had observed! > > Unfortunately, however, it was because of selfish people like late N. > > C. Lahiri, who was the Secretary of the Saha Committee, that the > > efforts of the Committee to streamline the Hindu calendar proved a > > miserable failure! And N. C. Lahiri had the support of all > > the " Vedic astrologers " to scuttle the calendar reform, because the > > so called Sayana Rashis would have proved that all the " Vedic > > astrologers " were following a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra for > > proving their astrological skills! > > > > And now that I am pointing out all such anachronisms in the Hindu > > calendar because of predictive gimmicks known as " Vedic astrology " , I > > am being clubbed as a " convert " who is " intersted in bashing our > > ancestors " . It is also being said that I am getting funds from some > > Xtian Churches for " bashing Vedic astrology " ! > > > > That much about bashing of " Vedic astrology " . > > > > Now about the Puranas etc. > > > > When I read the Satyartha Prakasha by Swami Dayanada Saraswati first, > > I was aghast as to how ruthlessly he had " bashed " some statements in > > some of the Puranas! However, when I pondered on the points he had > > raised, I was dumbfounded since he had said " Truth and nothing but > > Truth " . There are certain irreconilables in the Puranas which are > > interpolations! > > Swami Dayananda Saraswati also has " bashed " predictive gimmicks > > mercilessly, and because I also was/am doing a similar thing, quite > > a few " Vedic astrologers " thought that I was also an Arya Samaji-- - > > which I am not---as I am no iconoclast! > > > > Anyway, since we are talking right now only in terms of > > astronomy/astrology in this forum, let me give you just two examples: > > > > 1. Narada Purana is supposed to be the " beacon-light " of Vedic > > astrologers as there are quite a few astrological and astronomicle > > principes in the same! When I went through that Purana from cover to > > cover, I was really flabbergasted to find that that Purana had given > > the astronomical parameters of the Surya Sidhanta as it is--- without > > batting an eyelid! The height of folly of the compiler of that > > Purana is that for deciding the Ayanamsha, he has quoted the > > shlokas " trimshat kritva yuge bhanam.... " also from the Surya > > Sidhanta! As is common knowlege by now, those shlokas are an > > interpolation of post Munjala era--about 10th century AD! And the > > Hindi translator of that Purana of Gita Press, Gorakhpur, has > > even " proved " that that is the Ayanamsha which tallies almost exactly > > with that of late N. C. Lahiri! > > All I can say is that the translator is an idiot of first order since > > he does not know even ABC of astronomy, whether sidhantic or modern, > > as otherwise, he would never have misinterpreted those interpolated > > shlokas in such a clumsy manner! > > As such, it is really the " most unkindest cut " ---not only is there an > > interpolation in the Naranada Purana from the Surya Sidhanta--- wha is > > most pathetic is that the interpolated sholkas in the Narada Purana > > are actually those sholkas that have been interploated in the Surya > > Sidhantai.e. it is an interpolation of an interpolation! But somehow > > it has been interpreted/translated in such a manner as to prove that > > Lahiri Ayanamsha is the one presecribed by " Narada Purana " . > > > > It also proves " beyond all the reasonable doubts " that Narada Purana > > is actually a work of about eleventh century AD---At least the > > jyotisha portion is! > > > > NOW THAT I HAVE POINTED OUT TO YOU SUCH A WHOLESALE FRAUD IN THE > > NARADA PURANA, YOU MAY VERY WELL SAY THAT I AM " BASHING NARADA RISHI " > > > > Then let us take the example of Vishnu-dharmotara Purana! > > This is what P. C. Sengupta has said on page xiv of his Introduction > > to Ebenezer Burgess' translation of the Surya Sidhanta, " If we > > examine the Paitamaha Sidhanta of the Vishdharmottara Purana, in the > > way in which we have examined the S. Sidhanta, we readily come to the > > conclusion that it represents almost a wholesale purloining of the > > important portions of the Brahmasphuta Sidhanta of Brahmagupta, and > > that this nefarious act was done be a person who had absolutely no > > pretension to originality and whose style of Sanskrit appears > > ludicrous. A similar examinatoin of the Vriddha Vasishtha Sidhanta > > would lead us to the conclusion that it was written by some unknown > > person after the time of Bhaskara-II (12th century AD) " . > > So you may as well say that P C Sengupta had resorted to " bashing of > > Vedic seers " since afer all, Paitamaha Sidhanta is supposed to have > > been " revealed " by Pitamaha Brahma! > > YOU MUST, IN THE MEANTIME, CONTINUE TO CELEBRATE ALL YOUR FESTIVALS > > AND MUHURTAS ON WRONG DAYS---and go on hollering on the ones who > > point out to you such anachronisms in " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis > > muhurtas! > > With regards, > > A K Kaul > > > > , " prashanthnair999 " > > prashanthnair999@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear respected Kaul ji > > > > > > namaskar > > > > > > i would like to know Your opinion on the vedic seer bashing and > > trashing > > > in this post . > > > > > > i think u also support this .right ?? > > > > > > if not i wanted to hear what is ur understanding on vedic astronomy > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds prashanth > > > > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ghopal Ji, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > I am not agreeing with your own assessment >>>>>> May be I dont > > have > > > > enough knowledge to explain what is science<<<<<<. Because every > > one > > > > who is educated may always apply his mind and try to think > > logically. > > > > This is science. I am of the opinion that our sages who were of > > the > > > > firm opinion that Earth is stationary and Sun is nearer then Moon > > and > > > > so on were also very logical in their findings hence it was also > > the > > > > then science. Problem is this that when we shut our doors of mind > > > > then we become blind follower and in that case we do not want to > > hear > > > > anything which is against our mindset. Because in sub- conscious > > mind > > > > we think that our mind set is correct knowledge. Whereas mindset > > is > > > > fixed and knowledge is improving. So there is a vast gap in > > between > > > > them. > > > > > > > > So whenever knowledge of our sages is analyzed, everyone come > > forward > > > > with the mindset that how our sages may be wrong. But they forget > > > > that we in the forum are not blaming the knowledge of our sages. > > As I > > > > have said earlier that I am of the firm opinion that they were > > right > > > > (but in view of the then knowledge). Suppose Boeing company may > > start > > > > to use the frame of cycle while constructing the Boeing, with the > > > > argument that Wright Brothers were also using the cycle frame for > > > > manufacturing the flying machine. Then do you think you may visit > > > > Malayasia? And using the cycle frame in Boeing will definitely be > > a > > > > foolish thinking. > > > > > > > > In the same way all astrological principles were formulated on the > > > > basis of the then knowledge about the universe (Madhya lok), > > social > > > > set up, Political set up, the then astronomical information > > supported > > > > by the society and found very logical and there was no any > > question > > > > which was not answered by them. So the knowledge of our sages were > > > > science. Like, whatever knowledge is being gathered by Nasa is > > > > science of 2008, But some of its knowledge is in initial stage, > > which > > > > is being supported by present knowledge and we have no question on > > > > them but it may not be in the present form say after 100 years. So > > > > can we term present knowledge as unscientific. NO. Our present > > > > knowledge is science so long we are prepared to amend it. > > > > > > > > Thus our predictive astrological knowledge and principles are now > > > > unscientific and supporting them is like support of cycle frame in > > > > front of Boeing frame. So evaluate the knowledge of our sages in > > > > right perspective and do not put them in a situation so we may be > > > > regarded as blind follower. In view of this I commented for > > spreading > > > > your mindset (blindfaith) and not knowledge. > > > > > > > > If you support >>>>>> But you can make atleast your clients (if > > not > > > > everybody)content,make them feel at ease,give them happiness to > > the > > > > possible extent.<<<<<<< then where is the question of prediction. > > > > With this arguments you are saying that astrologer must say that > > they > > > > are moral booster, counselor, psychologist and so on but not > > fortune > > > > teller. Then everything will be at right place. But it is not so. > > > > Astrologers are predicting that so and so will happen without > > knowing > > > > the capability, education and other problems. Problems are being > > > > created in marriages in the name of match making, many negative > > > > predictions are being made to demoralize an individual and so on. > > > > Thus I am not agree with your views. > > > > > > > > Regarding >>>>>>>>With little bit of knowledge people take up > > > > astrology as a profession ,let them win their bread Sanatji.<<<<< > > I > > > > will like to say that I have no objection if they are earning > > their > > > > bread and butter. Many forums, astrologers are doing this, I have > > no > > > > objection. Let them earn from fools. But if a wine vendor is > > selling > > > > wine, I may have no objection, because he is also able to console > > > > some problem of humanbeings. But when he publicize his business > > that > > > > by drinking wine your problems will be solved (due to dizziness) > > or > > > > you may get success (due to extra power) then it is my duty to > > save > > > > not drunkard, but to new generation and I have to teach them that > > you > > > > are not going to gain anything from wine vendor (astrologer), who > > are > > > > exploiting your ignorance in the name of science or vedic or > > sages or > > > > tradition and what not. Because we all have fallen in this pond, > > only > > > > due to publicity that by astrology we can know our future and it > > is > > > > very scientific and so on. But after putting in so many years I > > came > > > > to know that it is all fraud hence my two books have been > > published > > > > containing analysis of every principle in detail. Since five years > > > > not a single astrologer has said that content and analysis of > > > > principle is wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> You mean every astrologer must know how VIMSH.dasa > > principle > > > > is derived by the rishis or whoever has made it and all such > > matters > > > > like rahu-ketu etc,etc.<<<<<< YES, because so long a simple > > vendor is > > > > unknowingly selling wine thinking that it is tonic. It is good. > > But > > > > if he knows or have opportunity to know (through my book or > > > > interaction) about his tonic (prediction) that it is not a tonic > > but > > > > it is wine and prepared with an outdated system (knowledge) then > > if > > > > he is mentally right then he will definitely try to know about the > > > > content of so called tonic. Thus I am saying that when principles > > are > > > > formulated on outdated information then how you can support them. > > You > > > > can only support, because you (astrologer) do not know. > > > > > > > > >>>>>> I have come here on the invitation and the expenses of > > people > > > > here who called me to teach KP.<<<<<< because they think like many > > > > others that KP brand tonic may solve their problem. But if you > > teach > > > > them that all signlord etc. principles were formulated on old > > concept > > > > which has been rejected by modern science then perhaps no one will > > > > come forward to learn KP. But unfortunately astrologers are more > > > > interested in money, prestige, reputation in comparison to social > > > > service. Because you may have seen large show room of wine with > > high > > > > gentry or poor standing in queue to purchase a costly wine. But > > fruit > > > > vendor has to sell his fruit (which improves our healt) by > > roaming in > > > > every street. This is the world and you are also one of them. > > > > > > > > Thus it is up to an individual as to whether he support wine > > vendor > > > > (mindset, astrology) or social reformer. > > > > Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic exchange of > > > > views. > > > > > > > > Thanking you, > > > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > , " TKP Ghopal " > > > > astrogopalji@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji Namaskar. > > > > > I could not be online for somtime due to transit and non > > > > availability of net > > > > > at my end. > > > > > I appreciate your quizzical comment > > > > > " My best wishes for spreading your mindset (not knowledge). " > > > > > > > > > > May be I dont have enough knowledge to explain what is science. > > > > > > > > > > One has to be rational to be scientific. > > > > > You probe on all the angles by asking 'n' number of > > questions,like > > > > putting > > > > > it in the test tube and boil and add neccessary ingrediants to > > test > > > > what is > > > > > in it. > > > > > You can never go to lab with an astrological question. > > > > > But you can probe it with many questions as to what is in it. > > > > > If you want to become God being an astrologer,I am > > > > sorry ,impossible. > > > > > But you can make atleast your clients (if not everybody) > > > > content,make them > > > > > feel at ease,give them happiness to the possible extent. > > > > > What are we heading for? > > > > > To become God? > > > > > You mean every astrologer must know how VIMSH.dasa principle is > > > > derived by > > > > > the rishis or whoever has made it and all such matters like > > rahu- > > > > ketu > > > > > etc,etc. > > > > > So the holes are more important than the pudding! > > > > > With little bit of knowledge people take up astrology as a > > > > profession ,let > > > > > them win their bread Sanatji. > > > > > > > > > > I highly appreciate your tendency and the same is mine > > too ,thats > > > > why I > > > > > continue in this forum,of not cheating the public with false > > > > pretends.Leave > > > > > aside the mongers who mint money out of remedies. > > > > > Otherwise Sanatji,frankly speaking by heart, I cant understand > > what > > > > are you > > > > > out to. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your wishes to me.I have come here on the > > invitation > > > > and the > > > > > expenses of people here who called me to teach KP.So I may not > > find > > > > time > > > > > rather I dont want to waste their time by communicating long > > hours. > > > > > Thank you for your kind attention and hope to see and > > communicate > > > > to you > > > > > after my return to India. > > > > > With warm regards, > > > > > tkp ghopal > > > > > NB: > > > > > kindly inform AKKji that I dont know Sanskrit.He has admonished > > me > > > > for using > > > > > an extra 'h' in my name.My Tamil is more prominent and sister > > > > language to > > > > > Sanskrit ,even as old as 'brahiritham' and still alive ,not dead > > > > like > > > > > sanskrit.In Tamil, no questions asked whether I use an extra h > > or > > > > > not,because it is not relevent. > > > > > tkp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/9/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ghopal Ji and members, > > > > > > Namaskar, > > > > > > Regarding your msg to Sh Kaul ji, (dt 5-11-8), I will like to > > > > express > > > > > > my view on some points. > > > > > > Perhaps Sh. Kaul ji is referring KP as 'hotch-potch' system, > > > > because > > > > > > it is using western system of aspect (with friendship enmity > > > > system > > > > > > ie +ve and –ve affect), their own ayanansh, their house > system > > > is > > > > > > different from traditional system by about 15 deg., > > significator > > > > > > system is a reverse copy of Vinshottary dasha, sign and sign > > lord, > > > > > > exaltation has been opted from traditional system and so on. > > > > Hence it > > > > > > is a mixture of both system. > > > > > > There is nothing wrong in mixing two systems for working out > > some > > > > > > socalled correct prediction. But again main question (which > > is the > > > > > > aim of the forum) is whether sign lord, exaltation, aspect > > etc. > > > > which > > > > > > is root content of these systems (predictive astrology) are > > > > correct > > > > > > or not. There correctness can only be assessed if any member > > will > > > > > > come out with any explanation as to how they were formulated, > > what > > > > > > initial information was used, whether that information was > > > > correct, > > > > > > whether procedure was logical (if not scientifical), are they > > > > require > > > > > > any change and so on. I am continuously raising this point but > > > > not a > > > > > > single socalled expert astrologers are offering any remote > > > > > > explanation (forget about some solid reasons, though I have > > > > written > > > > > > every thing in detail in my book). So in my opinion, when > > basic > > > > > > ingredient of any system (principle) is not correct then how > > end > > > > > > product (prediction) may be correct. . However, this much I > > can > > > > > > assure you that not a single principle was formulated with > > some > > > > > > divine power but every principle `was' correct and logical in > > > > view of > > > > > > the then science and every principle `is' wrong and illogical > > in > > > > view > > > > > > of present scientific knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>I find it scientific because we can reason out for any > > > > > > prediction we give.<<<<< NO, any thing can not be termed as > > > > > > scientific only by offering any reason. If you ask any > > question > > > > with > > > > > > a child (answer of which he is not supposed to know) even > > then he > > > > > > will explain every thing and he has sufficient reason for > > > > believing > > > > > > that. But by this, his concept may not be termed as > > scientific. > > > > For > > > > > > terming any astrological principle as scientifically > > supported, we > > > > > > must have answers on various points (above para ). > > > > > > > > > > > > Glad to know that you are going to Malaysia. Hope you will > > > > continue > > > > > > to offer your comments. My best wishes for spreading your > > mindset > > > > > > (not knowledge). > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember nothing is personal and it is only academic > > discussion. > > > > > > I hope members will offer their comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > PS > > > > > > > > > > > > It would have been better if Sh muthuram kumar may have > > offered > > > > some > > > > > > solid comments in support of predictive astrology or on > > various > > > > > > points raised in the forum instead of throwing useless > > sentences. > > > > I > > > > > > hope he will come out with some solid arguments. We must > > remember > > > > > > that it also requires some time and energy to read and write > > > > useless > > > > > > sentences. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <% > > > > 40>, > > > > > > " TKP Ghopal " > > > > > > <astrogopalji@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr.AKK JI > > > > > > > THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KIND MAIL TO ME. > > > > > > > I had gone thro many of your mails and came to know of your > > vast > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > in the Veda. > > > > > > > I stand absolutely nothing infront of you as far as Veda and > > > > Vedic > > > > > > are > > > > > > > concerned. > > > > > > > I assume you might be an elderly person too.( I am only 58) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One has to win his bread is more essential than celebrating > > > > > > festivals at > > > > > > > right time and day. > > > > > > > I am still running to win my bread hence I cant debate with > > > > whether > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day or a day before > > that.If you > > > > > > come to > > > > > > > know that on Diwali day in a small village of around 1200 > > > > > > population nearly > > > > > > > 1ton > > > > > > > of goat ,sheep and chiken were cut to use by people. > > > > > > > So celebration is eating and enjoying for some.They don't > > care > > > > it > > > > > > is on this > > > > > > > day or that day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are having a very little knowledge about KP system,the > > so > > > > called > > > > > > > 'hotch-potch'system. > > > > > > > If my friends come to know that you used these words they > > would > > > > > > charge you > > > > > > > for using filthy language on KP. > > > > > > > I find it scientific because we can reason out for any > > > > prediction > > > > > > we give. > > > > > > > If you think that I am Vedic,I am very sorry AKKji,I am an > > > > outsider > > > > > > to > > > > > > > vedas,totally. > > > > > > > You had been already mentioning in another mail too that > > number > > > > > > from 1 to > > > > > > > 254....its not 254 but 249. > > > > > > > It is not a number picked up from nowhere ,there is a very > > > > strong > > > > > > thesis > > > > > > > behind it. > > > > > > > Sh.Sanatji has a deep knowledge about KP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway leave me aside AKKji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not interested to debate.Whenever I find time between > > > > clients > > > > > > I go thro > > > > > > > few mails pateintly and observe what are you all doing.I > > gather > > > > > > one thing > > > > > > > that you all have lot and lots time to be on internet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I would propose you one thing here that you can join > > my KP > > > > > > classes and > > > > > > > I am sure you will change your stance.That too not now only > > > > after 3 > > > > > > > months,because I ve been invited by a Malysian to go to > > > > Malaysia to > > > > > > conduct > > > > > > > KP classes for 3 months and I just received my onward and > > return > > > > > > E.tickets > > > > > > > from him,leaving on 7th Nov.08. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > With great Regards for your experiance. > > > > > > > tkp ghopal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/3/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri T K P Ghopalji, > > > > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > > > < I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions.> > > > > > > > > In an off-line communication to the Moderator of this > > forum, > > > > I had > > > > > > > > said specifically that it is immaterial as to who asks > > what > > > > > > questions > > > > > > > > so long as they are related to predictive gimmicks known > > as > > > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > But what is material is as to whether those questions are > > > > asked > > > > > > as an > > > > > > > > exchange of ideas/knowledge or just to use such filthy > > > > language > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > the " respondent " finds it disgusting to reply such posts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, let us take the first question of the post of > > > > Shri > > > > > > Bhaskar > > > > > > > > <*1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, ALAN > > > > LEO, LR > > > > > > > > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL FAKE. > > PROVE > > > > THT > > > > > > > > THEIR RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.*> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, this question is applicable to you more than to > > > > anybody > > > > > > else > > > > > > > > since you are using KP system which is just a hotch- potch > > of > > > > so > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > systems! Obviously, you had become disgusted with all the > > > > systems > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > BV Raman, BABAJI etc. etc. that you had to switch over to > > KP-- > > > > -a > > > > > > > > system not more than a century old in any case! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have said further > > > > > > > > <What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals on > > the > > > > > > > > appropriate time?> > > > > > > > > This question deserves a " Nobel prize " ! One thing is, > > however, > > > > > > clear > > > > > > > > from the same that at least you have also come to realize > > > > that it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > only because of the fraud called Vedic astrology that we > > are > > > > > > > > celebrating all our festivals, including Divali, on wrong > > > > days! > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > you want that instead of banishing anti-Vedic " Vedic > > > > astrology " we > > > > > > > > must stop celebrating our festivals on correct days and > > > > follow the > > > > > > > > ditates of Lahiris and Lahirwalas! > > > > > > > > AND THAT IS WHY I SAY THAT OUR BUDHI HAS GOT ENVELOPED BY > > > > TAMOGUNA > > > > > > > > COMPLETELY---SINCE YOU ARE PREPARED TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS > > TO > > > > DEFEND > > > > > > > > " VEIDIC ASTROLOGY " EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO " GIVE TILANJALI " TO > > > > YOUR > > > > > > DHARMA! > > > > > > > > My counter question is why celebrate any festivals at > > all! Is > > > > it > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > because then you cannot exhibit to the whole world the > > non- > > > > > > existent > > > > > > > > " Vedic astrology " ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have also said > > > > > > > > <Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and > > its > > > > > > > > celebrated on Chathudasi,the previous day> > > > > > > > > I do not know what criteria you are talking about! Pl. > > quote > > > > the > > > > > > > > exact source of your information--full references. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have also said > > > > > > > > < Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal > > human's > > > > > > affairs. > > > > > > > > Who bothers about it other than astrologers ?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have not at all perused my reply to your > > post > > > > via > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > mail No.423 of September 12. I am quoting a part of the > > same > > > > for > > > > > > > > ready reference and that should answer your question as to > > > > why I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > dead against predictive gimmicks in the name of " Vedic > > > > astrology " > > > > > > > > Here are the relevant paragraphs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote > > > > > > > > < Though your language and derivations are pretty good I > > dont > > > > > > > > understand why on the name of heaven you are throwing mud > > on > > > > > > > > astrology.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you have observed by now that I am silent about > > the > > > > > > various > > > > > > > > other types of predictive gimmicks like Tarot, Palmistry, > > > > > > > > physiognomy etc. etc. That does not mean that I accept > > all of > > > > them > > > > > > > > as science! No. Absolutely not! However, none of > > > > those " methods " > > > > > > > > lays a claim to have emanated from the Vedas or any other > > > > Hindu > > > > > > > > shastras! For the same reason, I am just silent about KP > > > > system--- > > > > > > > > it is a hotch-potch of something of the sayana (Placidus > > House > > > > > > > > systdem) plus something of nirayana (Planets and rashis) > > plus > > > > some > > > > > > > > numerology (numbers from 1 to 254) and what not! It is > > > > immaterial > > > > > > > > to me whether it is a science or an art or a fraud so > > long as > > > > it > > > > > > > > does not claim to be an " offshoot " of the Vedas or some > > other > > > > > > Hindu > > > > > > > > scripture! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, whatever I have said against astrology is on the > > basis > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Vedas, Smritis, Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc. This is evident > > > > from my > > > > > > > > various posts. None of our shastras has advised us to > > consult > > > > > > > > jyotishis! On the other hand, Yudishthira was advised by > > > > Bhishma > > > > > > > > Pitamaha to treat a nakshatra-soochi brahmana as a > > chandala! > > > > Why? > > > > > > > > Because it is neither a science nor an art but just a way > > of > > > > > > making > > > > > > > > a fool of a gullible person! Above all, it has no basis in > > > > any of > > > > > > > > our shastras! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The most damaging result of our fatal infatuation > > with " Vedic > > > > > > > > astrology " has been that we are celebrating all our > > festivals > > > > and > > > > > > > > muhurtas on wrong days! Hence it is the duty of every real > > > > Hindu > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be as scornful for this fraud known as " Vedic astrology " > > as is > > > > > > > > humanly possible and to follow the instructions of Bhishma > > > > > > Pitamaha! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As to how we are celebrating our festivals on wrong days > > will > > > > be > > > > > > > > clear from the paper " 08-09.pdf " being uploaded in the > > files > > > > > > section! " > > > > > > > > Unquote. > > > > > > > > Dhanyavad. > > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > --- In > > <% > > > > 40> > > > > > > <% > > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > > " TKP Ghopal " > > > > > > > > <astrogopalji@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanatji > > > > > > > > > *LET ME WISH YOU AND YOUR FAMILYA VERY HAPPY DIPAVALI* . > > > > > > > > > I dont find anything wrong in Bhaskar's quetions. > > > > > > > > > Why slandering on astrology or anything whatsoever.? > > > > > > > > > An astrologer is supposed to be somewhat a more learned > > > > man.A > > > > > > > > learned man > > > > > > > > > never slanders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are we going to get by celebrating the festivals > > on the > > > > > > appropriate > > > > > > > > > time? > > > > > > > > > Diwali is celebrated on amavasya day in north India and > > its > > > > > > > > celebrated on > > > > > > > > > Chathudasi,the previous day > > > > > > > > > of amavasya in south India. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afterall whenever you celebrate you are going to put on > > > > some new > > > > > > > > clothes and > > > > > > > > > eat (unwanted for some) > > > > > > > > > sweets and savouries and get indigestion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology itself is accounted for say 1% in normal > > human's > > > > > > affairs. > > > > > > > > > Who bothers about it other than astrologers ? > > > > > > > > > Those astrologers also slandering between them?!?! > > > > > > > > > Where the problem starts...one slanders and many counter > > > > attack! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apprecciate your intention of getting more into > > astrology. > > > > > > > > > But the very thought would be defeated by these kind of > > > > > > conversations,I > > > > > > > > > suppose. > > > > > > > > > Kindly look into it if you feel I am right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With kind Regards > > > > > > > > > tkp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/28/08, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Avtar,* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *1) PROVE THAT KN RAO, BV RAMAN, SANTHANAM, BABAJI, > > ALAN > > > > LEO, > > > > > > LR > > > > > > > > > > CHAWDHARI, MK JAIN, BHASIN, NARSIMHA RAO, ARE ALL > > FAKE. > > > > PROVE > > > > > > THT > > > > > > > > THEIR > > > > > > > > > > RIGHT PREDICTIONS HAVE COME USING WRONG DATA.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *2) I HAVE EMORE THAN 1000 RIGHT PREDICTIONS IN THE > > > > JYOTISH > > > > > > FORUMS > > > > > > > > IN MY > > > > > > > > > > LAST 2 YEARS STAY ON THESE FORUMS. PROVE THAT THEY ARE > > > > WRONG. > > > > > > OR > > > > > > > > PROVE THAT > > > > > > > > > > THEY ARE RIGHT BUT USING WRONG DATA. OR ELSE PROVE > > THAT > > > > THEY > > > > > > ARE > > > > > > > > ALL FAKE > > > > > > > > > > IDS. I WILL GIVE YOU RS. I LAKH FOR EVERY PROOF YOU > > GIVE > > > > ME > > > > > > OF HAVING > > > > > > > > > > ANSWERED A FAKE ID. * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *3) PROVE THAT LL THE YESTERYEAR ASTROLOGERS WERE > > WRONG.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *4) PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND ALL ELSE ARE WRONG.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *5) PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE RIGHT FESTIVAL > > > > DATES, > > > > > > AND THE > > > > > > > > > > OTHERS DO NOT KNOW ABC OF ASTRONOMY.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *6) PROVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THE > > > > REST ARE > > > > > > > > IDIOTS.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *7) PROVE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT IS VEDIC ASTROLOGY > > ACTUALLY.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *BHASKAR. * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > TKP Ghopal > > > > > > > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > > > > > > > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > > > > > > > > > 93666 23444 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > TKP Ghopal > > > > > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > > > > > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > > > > > > > 93666 23444 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > TKP Ghopal > > > > > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road, > > > > > I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001 > > > > > 93666 23444 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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