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History

Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of astrology,

arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some speculation

that astrology of some form or other appeared in the Sumerian period

in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is available

to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its

beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to take shape

in the astrological writings of the time, most important of these

being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70 tablets of

7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or victory in

war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial occurrences

happened to be present at the time of the event. However texts from

this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and content of

which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian

astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century B.C. the

practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very rudimentary.

Because of their inability to accurately predict future celestial

phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance, interpretations

were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By the 4th

century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed enough to

calculate future planetary positions with reasonable accuracy, at

which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]

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respected kaul ji

 

namaskar

 

but no ancient written evidence is availableto support this hypothesis[2

 

i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i dont acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets till today avialble .

 

but u can blv what u blv is best ,

but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick to it what ever may come i dont blv or care attitude

 

regrds prashanth

, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> History> Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of astrology, > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some speculation > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the Sumerian period > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is available > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to take shape > in the astrological writings of the time, most important of these > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70 tablets of > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or victory in > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial occurrences > happened to be present at the time of the event. However texts from > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and content of > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century B.C. the > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very rudimentary. > Because of their inability to accurately predict future celestial > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance, interpretations > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By the 4th > century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed enough to > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable accuracy, at > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]>

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Shri Prashantha Nairji,

Namaskar!

<i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i dont

acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets till

today avialble .>

 

Here are the " written proofs " :

 

" ...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving from the

reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions were

made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five known

planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and

thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to us

which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC "

Page 12 of " The Compleat Astrologer " by Derek and Julia Parker---

published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.

 

" ...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is protrayed on

an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god Sin,

who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated

Chaldean mythology " ...same page of the above work.

" ....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible for the

establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries, Libra

Cancer and Capricorn.... " page 13 of the above work.

" ...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of gigantic

stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 feet

high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of

horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly

bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was begun

by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity (2079-

1960 BC)... " Page 13 of the above work.

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

 

, " prashanthnair999 "

<prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

>

>

>

> respected kaul ji

>

>

>

> namaskar

>

>

>

> but no ancient written evidence is available

> to support this hypothesis[2

>

>

>

> i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i dont

> acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets

till

> today avialble .

>

>

>

> but u can blv what u blv is best ,

>

> but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick to it what

> ever may come i dont blv or care attitude

>

>

>

> regrds prashanth

>

>

> , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > History

> > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of astrology,

> > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some speculation

> > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the Sumerian

period

> > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is

available

> > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its

> > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to take

shape

> > in the astrological writings of the time, most important of these

> > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70 tablets

of

> > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or victory in

> > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial occurrences

> > happened to be present at the time of the event. However texts

from

> > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and

content of

> > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian

> > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century B.C.

the

> > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very rudimentary.

> > Because of their inability to accurately predict future celestial

> > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,

interpretations

> > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By the 4th

> > century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed

enough to

> > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable accuracy, at

> > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]

> >

>

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respected kaul ji

 

for jesus sake show me the proof ,i am not asking Mills and boons storeis .i am not asking to show me a temple or stone in 7ooo BC ,i am just asking u to show me the dictum which can work ??

do u hav it ??

show it s proof too in their history it has worked ,so it replicable .

what abt greeks/yavanas did u abandoned them ??u shud not do so .

 

regrds prashanth

ps-

amshuman -sun (sanskrit )/shamash --babylone

al shams -read as ashams -sun in arabic

helios --sun in greece

raa- sun in egypt

ravi ,amshuman and heli is suns diffrnt names in sanskrit .

, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Prashantha Nairji,> Namaskar!> <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i dont> acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets till> today avialble .>> > Here are the "written proofs":> > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving from the > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions were > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five known > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to us > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"> Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and Julia Parker---> published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.> > "...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is protrayed on > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god Sin, > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated > Chaldean mythology"...same page of the above work.> "....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible for the > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries, Libra > Cancer and Capricorn...." page 13 of the above work.> "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of gigantic > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 feet > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was begun > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity (2079-> 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.> With regards,> A K Kaul> > > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > respected kaul ji> > > > > > > > namaskar> > > > > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available> > to support this hypothesis[2> > > > > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i dont> > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets > till> > today avialble .> > > > > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,> > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick to it what> > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude> > > > > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > >> > > History> > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of astrology,> > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some speculation> > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the Sumerian > period> > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is > available> > > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its> > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to take > shape> > > in the astrological writings of the time, most important of these> > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70 tablets > of> > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or victory in> > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial occurrences> > > happened to be present at the time of the event. However texts > from> > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and > content of> > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian> > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century B.C. > the> > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very rudimentary.> > > Because of their inability to accurately predict future celestial> > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance, > interpretations> > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By the 4th> > > century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed > enough to> > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable accuracy, at> > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]> > >> >>

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Resp. Nair ji,

Namaskar,

I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that

yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof

that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left the

dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would have

decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been based on

the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious

concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,

cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead of

Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius (half

man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces etc.

Because these symbols have no significance in any religion originated

in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the

religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these signs

were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As

they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the

path of Moon.

 

As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of

innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as Made

in India.

 

Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their comment.

 

Yours truly,

Sanat

 

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shri Prashantha Nairji,

> Namaskar!

> <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i

dont

> acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets

till

> today avialble .>

>

> Here are the " written proofs " :

>

> " ...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving from the

> reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions were

> made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five known

> planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and

> thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to us

> which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC "

> Page 12 of " The Compleat Astrologer " by Derek and Julia Parker---

> published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.

>

> " ...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is protrayed

on

> an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god

Sin,

> who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated

> Chaldean mythology " ...same page of the above work.

> " ....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible for the

> establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,

Libra

> Cancer and Capricorn.... " page 13 of the above work.

> " ...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of

gigantic

> stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 feet

> high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of

> horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly

> bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was

begun

> by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity (2079-

> 1960 BC)... " Page 13 of the above work.

> With regards,

> A K Kaul

>

>

> , " prashanthnair999 "

> <prashanthnair999@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > respected kaul ji

> >

> >

> >

> > namaskar

> >

> >

> >

> > but no ancient written evidence is available

> > to support this hypothesis[2

> >

> >

> >

> > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i

dont

> > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets

> till

> > today avialble .

> >

> >

> >

> > but u can blv what u blv is best ,

> >

> > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick to it

what

> > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude

> >

> >

> >

> > regrds prashanth

> >

> >

> > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > History

> > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of

astrology,

> > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some

speculation

> > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the Sumerian

> period

> > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is

> available

> > > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its

> > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to take

> shape

> > > in the astrological writings of the time, most important of

these

> > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70

tablets

> of

> > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or victory

in

> > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial occurrences

> > > happened to be present at the time of the event. However texts

> from

> > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and

> content of

> > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian

> > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century B.C.

> the

> > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very rudimentary.

> > > Because of their inability to accurately predict future

celestial

> > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,

> interpretations

> > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By the

4th

> > > century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed

> enough to

> > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable accuracy,

at

> > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]

> > >

> >

>

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dear respected sanat ji

 

because i feel like respecting u now

and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge .

we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt of our gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too , generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena and u need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me a less important person

now i need one more lesson frm u

 

How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say in this .( i mean connection )

also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re birth and series of births and re births .Also how they use it astrologicaly tru various questions a nativ can ask .

 

say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --forget abt other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek religious support in ur analysis .

 

Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european languages .

 

 

u answers will b highly appreciated .

 

so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6 billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .

 

with all respect and charan sparsh

 

regrds prashanth Nair

, "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Resp. Nair ji,> Namaskar,> I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left the > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would have > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been based on > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant, > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead of > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius (half > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces etc. > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion originated > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these signs > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the > path of Moon.> > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as Made > in India.> > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their comment.> > Yours truly,> Sanat> > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" > jyotirved@ wrote:> >> > Shri Prashantha Nairji,> > Namaskar!> > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i > dont> > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets > till> > today avialble .>> > > > Here are the "written proofs":> > > > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving from the > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions were > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five known > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to us > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"> > Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and Julia Parker---> > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.> > > > "...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is protrayed > on > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god > Sin, > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated > > Chaldean mythology"...same page of the above work.> > "....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible for the > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries, > Libra > > Cancer and Capricorn...." page 13 of the above work.> > "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of > gigantic > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 feet > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was > begun > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity (2079-> > 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.> > With regards,> > A K Kaul> > > > > > , "prashanthnair999" > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > respected kaul ji> > > > > > > > > > > > namaskar> > > > > > > > > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available> > > to support this hypothesis[2> > > > > > > > > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i > dont> > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets > > till> > > today avialble .> > > > > > > > > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,> > > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick to it > what> > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude> > > > > > > > > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > >> > > > History> > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of > astrology,> > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some > speculation> > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the Sumerian > > period> > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is > > available> > > > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its> > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to take > > shape> > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most important of > these> > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70 > tablets > > of> > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or victory > in> > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial occurrences> > > > happened to be present at the time of the event. However texts > > from> > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and > > content of> > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian> > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century B.C. > > the> > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very rudimentary.> > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict future > celestial> > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance, > > interpretations> > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By the > 4th> > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed > > enough to> > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable accuracy, > at> > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]> > > >> > >> >>

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ShriPrashanth Nairji,

Namaskar!

<Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is

sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european

languages.>

 

After joining HinuCalendar forum you had said that you would go

through the various files in that forum. It appears you have not

gone through any of them yet.

 

I was, in fact, having same doubts myself as expressed by you

regarding the nomenclature of Mesha etc. rashis about twenty years

back! The answers I found have been " scribbled " in different files

like koshur6.doc, rashi5.doc, 1999b.doc etc. Pl. go through them and

we can compare notes.

Dhanyavad.

AKK

 

 

, " prashanthnair999 "

<prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

>

> dear respected sanat ji

>

>

>

> because i feel like respecting u now

>

> and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless

> knowledge .

>

> we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt

of our

> gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too ,

> generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena

and u

> need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me

a

> less important person

>

> now i need one more lesson frm u

>

>

>

> How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say

in

> this .( i mean connection )

>

> also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re

birth

> and series of births and re births .Also how they use it

astrologicaly

> tru various questions a nativ can ask .

>

>

>

> say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --

forget abt

> other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek

religious

> support in ur analysis .

>

>

>

> Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is

> sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european

> languages .

>

>

>

>

>

> u answers will b highly appreciated .

>

>

>

> so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6

> billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and

> universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .

>

>

>

> with all respect and charan sparsh

>

>

>

> regrds prashanth Nair

>

>

> , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> > Resp. Nair ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that

> > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof

> > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left

the

> > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would

have

> > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been

based on

> > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious

> > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,

> > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead

of

> > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius

(half

> > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces

etc.

> > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion

originated

> > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the

> > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these

signs

> > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As

> > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the

> > path of Moon.

> >

> > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of

> > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as

Made

> > in India.

> >

> > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their

comment.

> >

> > Yours truly,

> > Sanat

> >

> >

> > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > jyotirved@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i

> > dont

> > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets

> > till

> > > today avialble .>

> > >

> > > Here are the " written proofs " :

> > >

> > > " ...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving from

the

> > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions

were

> > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five

known

> > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and

> > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to

us

> > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC "

> > > Page 12 of " The Compleat Astrologer " by Derek and Julia Parker--

-

> > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.

> > >

> > > " ...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is

protrayed

> > on

> > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god

> > Sin,

> > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated

> > > Chaldean mythology " ...same page of the above work.

> > > " ....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible for the

> > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,

> > Libra

> > > Cancer and Capricorn.... " page 13 of the above work.

> > > " ...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of

> > gigantic

> > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300

feet

> > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of

> > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly

> > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was

> > begun

> > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity

(2079-

> > > 1960 BC)... " Page 13 of the above work.

> > > With regards,

> > > A K Kaul

> > >

> > >

> > > , " prashanthnair999 "

> > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > respected kaul ji

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > namaskar

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > but no ancient written evidence is available

> > > > to support this hypothesis[2

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines

i

> > dont

> > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform

tablets

> > > till

> > > > today avialble .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,

> > > >

> > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick to

it

> > what

> > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > regrds prashanth

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > History

> > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of

> > astrology,

> > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some

> > speculation

> > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the

Sumerian

> > > period

> > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is

> > > available

> > > > > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its

> > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to

take

> > > shape

> > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most important of

> > these

> > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70

> > tablets

> > > of

> > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or

victory

> > in

> > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial

occurrences

> > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event. However

texts

> > > from

> > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and

> > > content of

> > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian

> > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century

B.C.

> > > the

> > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very

rudimentary.

> > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict future

> > celestial

> > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,

> > > interpretations

> > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By

the

> > 4th

> > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed

> > > enough to

> > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable

accuracy,

> > at

> > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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dear respected pandit Kaul ji

Namaskar

 

I hav read all those files and it dont atttracted me anything ,as it is same repetition of old files which u wrote after ur enlightenment ,then u cud not able to produce anything ( even i read those may b some 5 yrs back b4 u strted barging in astro forums without keeping any decency or civility like islamic attackers who destroys idols,temples or books in other cultures in some free pages in net now dont remembr) ( Muslims destroyed alexandrian Library and throw all books in river nile ,spaniards destroyed all Mayan ,Inca literary works ,in india more than 9 million books destroyed or burned when they burned Nalanda university )

 

even i read the Indira Gandhi 's death a turning point in ur life ,and thought of leaving their itself as it wont serve any purpose as i cud gauge ur knowldge in vedic astrology .

 

other wise i thought to strt in that line in ur grp itself ,but it is not an astrology grp nor discuss anything and no memebrs i think knows head and tail except we 2 will stick with our lines till this world ends and no use ,which is the same pattern followed in this grp too ,Tho some astrologers or astro Knowing crowd is here who without failure congatulate me too .

Now coming to point

 

I asked this questions too grp 's Only one

enlightened soul shri sanat ji (pls read the full mail and reply )

,so waiting for his commnts and pls help him to come out frm his hiding .always when ever difficult questions appear takes one weeks to 10 days to answer it ,till he find a twisting arguemnt .Dont play same preplanned game always ,or when in difficulty some other id appears so as to twist whole discussions .Then the subsequent ruckus will help him to run away without answering the core of the questions in his own scientific way ( he and god knows what is it )

 

But i find enlightened persons shud hav a spontaneous answer ,so i know every one can understand the diffrnce .

 

so i wait answer to the questions raised by me .

 

regrds prashanth Nair

 

PS

Kahlil Gibran wrote his masterpiece The Prophet when he was only eighteen years old, and struggled his whole life to create something better, but could not. Ouspensky could not go beyond Tertium Organum even though he met Gurdjieff, lived and worked with him for many years. ( if possible u 2 souls sent me ur chart details and i would like to hav a look ,just a personal curiousity )

, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> ShriPrashanth Nairji,> Namaskar!> <Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is> sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european> languages.>> > After joining HinuCalendar forum you had said that you would go > through the various files in that forum. It appears you have not > gone through any of them yet.> > I was, in fact, having same doubts myself as expressed by you > regarding the nomenclature of Mesha etc. rashis about twenty years > back! The answers I found have been "scribbled" in different files > like koshur6.doc, rashi5.doc, 1999b.doc etc. Pl. go through them and > we can compare notes.> Dhanyavad.> AKK> > > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > dear respected sanat ji> > > > > > > > because i feel like respecting u now> > > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless> > knowledge .> > > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt > of our> > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too ,> > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena > and u> > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me > a> > less important person> > > > now i need one more lesson frm u> > > > > > > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say > in> > this .( i mean connection )> > > > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re > birth> > and series of births and re births .Also how they use it > astrologicaly> > tru various questions a nativ can ask .> > > > > > > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --> forget abt> > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek > religious> > support in ur analysis .> > > > > > > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is> > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european> > languages .> > > > > > > > > > > > u answers will b highly appreciated .> > > > > > > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6> > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and> > universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .> > > > > > > > with all respect and charan sparsh> > > > > > > > regrds prashanth Nair> > > > > > , "sanat2221"> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > >> > > Resp. Nair ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that> > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof> > > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left > the> > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would > have> > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been > based on> > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious> > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,> > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead > of> > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius > (half> > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces > etc.> > > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion > originated> > > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the> > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these > signs> > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As> > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the> > > path of Moon.> > >> > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of> > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as > Made> > > in India.> > >> > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their > comment.> > >> > > Yours truly,> > > Sanat> > >> > >> > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > > jyotirved@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,> > > > Namaskar!> > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i> > > dont> > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets> > > till> > > > today avialble .>> > > >> > > > Here are the "written proofs":> > > >> > > > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving from > the> > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions > were> > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five > known> > > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and> > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to > us> > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"> > > > Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and Julia Parker--> -> > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.> > > >> > > > "...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is > protrayed> > > on> > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god> > > Sin,> > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated> > > > Chaldean mythology"...same page of the above work.> > > > "....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible for the> > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,> > > Libra> > > > Cancer and Capricorn...." page 13 of the above work.> > > > "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of> > > gigantic> > > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 > feet> > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of> > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly> > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was> > > begun> > > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity > (2079-> > > > 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.> > > > With regards,> > > > A K Kaul> > > >> > > >> > > > , "prashanthnair999"> > > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > respected kaul ji> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > namaskar> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available> > > > > to support this hypothesis[2> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines > i> > > dont> > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform > tablets> > > > till> > > > > today avialble .> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,> > > > >> > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick to > it> > > what> > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "Avtar Krishen > Kaul"> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > History> > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of> > > astrology,> > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some> > > speculation> > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the > Sumerian> > > > period> > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is> > > > available> > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its> > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to > take> > > > shape> > > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most important of> > > these> > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70> > > tablets> > > > of> > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or > victory> > > in> > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial > occurrences> > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event. However > texts> > > > from> > > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and> > > > content of> > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian> > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century > B.C.> > > > the> > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very > rudimentary.> > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict future> > > celestial> > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,> > > > interpretations> > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By > the> > > 4th> > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed> > > > enough to> > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable > accuracy,> > > at> > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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Resp. Nair ji,

Namaskar,

In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for

vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge .<<<<<

and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with you,

despite I have answers on your every question. However you may

continue to interact with other member, so long they have no

objection on your language.

 

If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point,

since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same

point for further interaction.

 

Bye,

Yours truly,

 

Sanat

 

 

 

, " prashanthnair999 "

<prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

>

> dear respected sanat ji

>

>

>

> because i feel like respecting u now

>

> and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless

> knowledge .

>

> we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt

of our

> gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too ,

> generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena

and u

> need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me

a

> less important person

>

> now i need one more lesson frm u

>

>

>

> How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say

in

> this .( i mean connection )

>

> also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re

birth

> and series of births and re births .Also how they use it

astrologicaly

> tru various questions a nativ can ask .

>

>

>

> say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --

forget abt

> other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek

religious

> support in ur analysis .

>

>

>

> Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is

> sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european

> languages .

>

>

>

>

>

> u answers will b highly appreciated .

>

>

>

> so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6

> billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and

> universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .

>

>

>

> with all respect and charan sparsh

>

>

>

> regrds prashanth Nair

>

>

> , " sanat2221 "

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> > Resp. Nair ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that

> > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof

> > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left

the

> > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would

have

> > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been

based on

> > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious

> > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,

> > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead

of

> > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius

(half

> > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces

etc.

> > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion

originated

> > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the

> > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these

signs

> > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As

> > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the

> > path of Moon.

> >

> > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of

> > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as

Made

> > in India.

> >

> > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their

comment.

> >

> > Yours truly,

> > Sanat

> >

> >

> > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > jyotirved@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i

> > dont

> > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets

> > till

> > > today avialble .>

> > >

> > > Here are the " written proofs " :

> > >

> > > " ...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving from

the

> > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions

were

> > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five

known

> > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and

> > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to

us

> > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC "

> > > Page 12 of " The Compleat Astrologer " by Derek and Julia Parker--

-

> > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.

> > >

> > > " ...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is

protrayed

> > on

> > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god

> > Sin,

> > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated

> > > Chaldean mythology " ...same page of the above work.

> > > " ....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible for the

> > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,

> > Libra

> > > Cancer and Capricorn.... " page 13 of the above work.

> > > " ...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of

> > gigantic

> > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300

feet

> > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of

> > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly

> > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was

> > begun

> > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity

(2079-

> > > 1960 BC)... " Page 13 of the above work.

> > > With regards,

> > > A K Kaul

> > >

> > >

> > > , " prashanthnair999 "

> > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > respected kaul ji

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > namaskar

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > but no ancient written evidence is available

> > > > to support this hypothesis[2

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines

i

> > dont

> > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform

tablets

> > > till

> > > > today avialble .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,

> > > >

> > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick to

it

> > what

> > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > regrds prashanth

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > History

> > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of

> > astrology,

> > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some

> > speculation

> > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the

Sumerian

> > > period

> > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is

> > > available

> > > > > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its

> > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to

take

> > > shape

> > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most important of

> > these

> > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70

> > tablets

> > > of

> > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or

victory

> > in

> > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial

occurrences

> > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event. However

texts

> > > from

> > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and

> > > content of

> > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian

> > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century

B.C.

> > > the

> > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very

rudimentary.

> > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict future

> > celestial

> > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,

> > > interpretations

> > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By

the

> > 4th

> > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed

> > > enough to

> > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable

accuracy,

> > at

> > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Share on other sites

Dear sanatji,

 

when you have all your freedom to say astrologersr are fake(it is not circastic) ,why not prashanth nair ji can have is own views about you.pl.think sir.As i told earlier a sincere (pl.underline sincere)attempt by way of prayer to the lord will clear all your doubts or a true belief in your master from whom u have learnt the astrology can clear your doubts.Otherwise it is like waking up a person who is pretending like he is in a deep sleep.God bless all.

Raman--- On Sat, 22/11/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote:

sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia Date: Saturday, 22 November, 2008, 5:38 PMResp. Nair ji,

Namaskar,

In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge

...<<<<< and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with you, despite I have answers on your every question. However you may continue to interact with other member, so long they have no objection on your language.

If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point, since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same point for further interaction.

Bye, Yours truly,

Sanat

, "prashanthnair999" <prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

> > dear respected sanat ji

> > > > because i feel like respecting u now

> > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless

> knowledge .

> > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt of our

> gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too ,

> generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena and u

> need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me a

> less important person

> > now i need one more lesson frm u

> > > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say in

> this .( i mean connection )

> > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re birth

> and series of births and re births .Also how they use it astrologicaly

> tru various questions a nativ can ask .

> > > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --

forget abt

> other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek religious

> support in ur analysis .

> > > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is

> sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european

> languages .

> > > > > > u answers will b highly appreciated .

> > > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6

> billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and

> universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .

> > > > with all respect and charan sparsh

> > > > regrds prashanth Nair

> > > , "sanat2221"

> <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> >

> > Resp. Nair ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that

> > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof

> > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left the

> > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would have

> > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been based on

> > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious

> > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,

> > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead of

> > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius (half

> > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces etc.

> > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion originated

> > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the

> > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these signs

> > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As

> > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the

> > path of Moon.

> >

> > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of

> > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as Made

> > in India.

> >

> > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their comment.

> >

> > Yours truly,

> > Sanat

> >

> >

> > , "Avtar Krishen

Kaul"

> > jyotirved@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this

lines i

> > dont

> > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets

> > till

> > > today avialble .>

> > >

> > > Here are the "written proofs":

> > >

> > > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving

from the

> > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions were

> > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five known

> > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and

> > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to us

> > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"

> > > Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and

Julia Parker--

-

> > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.

> > >

> > > "...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is protrayed

> > on

> > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god

> > Sin,

> > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated

> > > Chaldean mythology"...same page of the above work.

> > > "....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible

for the

> > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,

> > Libra

> > > Cancer and Capricorn...." page 13 of the above work.

> > > "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of

> > gigantic

> > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 feet

> > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of

> > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly

> > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was

> > begun

> > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity (2079-

> > > 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.

> > > With regards,

> > > A K Kaul

> > >

> > >

> > > ,

"prashanthnair999"

> > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > respected kaul ji

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > namaskar

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > but no ancient written evidence is available

> > > > to support this hypothesis[2

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this

lines i

> > dont

> > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets

> > > till

> > > > today avialble .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,

> > > >

> > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick

to it

> > what

> > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > regrds prashanth

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , "Avtar

Krishen Kaul"

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > History

> > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of

> > astrology,

> > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some

> > speculation

> > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the Sumerian

> > > period

> > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written

evidence is

> > > available

> > > > > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century

B.C. its

> > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun

to take

> > > shape

> > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most

important of

> > these

> > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of

70

> > tablets

> > > of

> > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine

or victory

> > in

> > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial occurrences

> > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event.

However texts

> > > from

> > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin

and

> > > content of

> > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time

Babylonian

> > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th

century B.C.

> > > the

> > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very

rudimentary.

> > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict

future

> > celestial

> > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,

> > > interpretations

> > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly

before. By the

> > 4th

> > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had

progressed

> > > enough to

> > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable accuracy,

> > at

> > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

---

 

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dear respected sanat ji

 

namaskar

 

i hav no regrets ,as this is not the way to do any intellectual discussions

here it simply reduced to a fighting ground and u ppl keeping on asking same questions which is already answered in this very grp by many memebers ,means u think in winning some poor ignorent individuals than knowing reality as u hav a pre set agenda .Nor interested in accepting the truth .

 

and u sell books at exhorbitant price which has no value in any sense ,and calls astrologers frauds and fakes where as u ask questions and all answers u got may write as more books twisting logics and earn more applause frm ur masters and money .Thanks to ur euro-dollar centric ideas and logic .first time in my life i am seeing some one write a book and trying to gain popularity on it by all kinds of 3rd rate methods .

u cannot answer one astro dictum in proper sense .Nor has knowldge in any classical books .

 

ur inability in predicting u r putting on other s shoulder ,but we call it as lack of gurutwa .

 

wishing u all the best in this venture ,and make more money by fooling and misleading ppl and destroying a nations heritage ,it is our duty towards a country which has given us everything .

 

regrds Prashanth Nair

 

ps

I also stop communicating with u ,so dont bother to reply to me .

, "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Resp. Nair ji,> Namaskar,> In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for > vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge .<<<< and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with you, > despite I have answers on your every question. However you may > continue to interact with other member, so long they have no > objection on your language.> > If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point, > since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same > point for further interaction.> > Bye, > Yours truly,> > Sanat> > > > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > dear respected sanat ji> > > > > > > > because i feel like respecting u now> > > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless> > knowledge .> > > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt > of our> > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too ,> > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena > and u> > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me > a> > less important person> > > > now i need one more lesson frm u> > > > > > > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say > in> > this .( i mean connection )> > > > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re > birth> > and series of births and re births .Also how they use it > astrologicaly> > tru various questions a nativ can ask .> > > > > > > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --> forget abt> > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek > religious> > support in ur analysis .> > > > > > > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is> > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european> > languages .> > > > > > > > > > > > u answers will b highly appreciated .> > > > > > > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6> > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and> > universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .> > > > > > > > with all respect and charan sparsh> > > > > > > > regrds prashanth Nair> > > > > > , "sanat2221"> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > >> > > Resp. Nair ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that> > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof> > > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left > the> > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would > have> > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been > based on> > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious> > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,> > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead > of> > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius > (half> > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces > etc.> > > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion > originated> > > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the> > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these > signs> > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As> > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the> > > path of Moon.> > >> > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of> > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as > Made> > > in India.> > >> > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their > comment.> > >> > > Yours truly,> > > Sanat> > >> > >> > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > > jyotirved@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,> > > > Namaskar!> > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines i> > > dont> > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets> > > till> > > > today avialble .>> > > >> > > > Here are the "written proofs":> > > >> > > > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving from > the> > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions > were> > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five > known> > > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and> > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to > us> > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"> > > > Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and Julia Parker--> -> > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.> > > >> > > > "...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is > protrayed> > > on> > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god> > > Sin,> > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated> > > > Chaldean mythology"...same page of the above work.> > > > "....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible for the> > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,> > > Libra> > > > Cancer and Capricorn...." page 13 of the above work.> > > > "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of> > > gigantic> > > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 > feet> > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of> > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly> > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was> > > begun> > > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity > (2079-> > > > 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.> > > > With regards,> > > > A K Kaul> > > >> > > >> > > > , "prashanthnair999"> > > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > respected kaul ji> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > namaskar> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available> > > > > to support this hypothesis[2> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this lines > i> > > dont> > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform > tablets> > > > till> > > > > today avialble .> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,> > > > >> > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick to > it> > > what> > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "Avtar Krishen > Kaul"> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > History> > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of> > > astrology,> > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some> > > speculation> > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the > Sumerian> > > > period> > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written evidence is> > > > available> > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century B.C. its> > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun to > take> > > > shape> > > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most important of> > > these> > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of 70> > > tablets> > > > of> > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine or > victory> > > in> > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial > occurrences> > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event. However > texts> > > > from> > > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin and> > > > content of> > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time Babylonian> > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th century > B.C.> > > > the> > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very > rudimentary.> > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict future> > > celestial> > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,> > > > interpretations> > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly before. By > the> > > 4th> > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had progressed> > > > enough to> > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable > accuracy,> > > at> > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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dear respected kalyanaraman ji

 

thanks ,thanks for everything

I think i heard abt u ,if i am not mistaken .

at least one memebr has come out with bold opinions ,other wise a pre set agenda was going on here in the name of scientific discussions .Just call astrologers who r not well trained in debates and just blving in defeating them by asking 100000 question s who has no money nor resources to answer this guys ( as asking question frm all vedas and puranas and this and that )

i am sure by now they r getting some monetary support for doing all this activities

other wise why allready proven discussed questions again resurfacing as questions to any new comers ,so what is hidden agenda behind it ?? is just defeating ignorent one's is victory ,i blv in exprtise in what some one is doing ,i blv my electician shud b best in his work than he knows or not how bulb is functioning .

Now we shud ask same question on scientific back ground of spices and ingredients we use in making our dishes ,if our mom or wife dont answer it properly we shud call them frauds and fakes

check in any hotel and ask this question to main chef ,and he will go mad and will recommnd to throw u out of hotel

while travelling in flight call pilot and ask scientific basis of flight engineering than his merit in doing his duty and keep on arguing with him ,dont allow him to do his duty ,call him fraud and fake

u can do like this to any one ,even to ur driver or even ur servant girl

so world will b a better place full of scientists .

now some incidents happened in reality ,

KN rao invited one PS iyyer ( now no more ) for annual meeting of astrologers in delhi and audience requested him to demonstrte his skill .he agreed and some 35 memebrs selected frm audience

and he answered every one without even asking one counter question ,he was not using a computer nor doing any charts even

all prediction ranged frm 6 months to 2 yrs to b full filled ,all recorded by Bharatiya vidhya bhavan astrology students and they followed up

the result was100% success .And it is available for public scrutiny

 

one man who is good in doing ashtamangalya prashna was calld in delhi to show his skills ( same prashna is using in big families ,palaces and even temples )

he even asked KN rao for a astrologer who can chllenge or refute his findings and all was arrnaged and it go on for a week ,rao even offered computer help which he rejected as he was doing all calculation mentaly and on paper .

and it go on for a week and 100s of ppl who ever came there got their predictions even without charts .

and again it was gr8 success

i quote this incident as all this is recorded and available for public scrutiny and it got published in many journals

other wise my exprnces and exprmnts may b termed as unprooved or made up

i thanks u once again for ur time and the will to defend the truth what ever u blv is true .

 

with high regrds prashanth nair

 

I hope other memebr s may come out more openly to support or against views prented here and in grp generaly

 

 

, Kalyan Raman <angaraha wrote:>> Dear sanatji,>  > when you have all your freedom to say astrologersr are fake(it is not circastic) ,why not prashanth nair ji can have is own views about you.pl.think sir.As i told earlier a sincere (pl.underline sincere)attempt by way of prayer to the lord will clear all your doubts or a true belief in your master from whom u  have learnt the astrology can clear your doubts.Otherwise it is like waking up a person who is pretending like he is in a deep sleep.God bless all.> Raman> > --- On Sat, 22/11/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain wrote:> > sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia> > Saturday, 22 November, 2008, 5:38 PM> > Resp. Nair ji,> Namaskar,> In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for > vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge> ..<<<< and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with you, > despite I have answers on your every question. However you may > continue to interact with other member, so long they have no > objection on your language.> > If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point, > since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same > point for further interaction.> > Bye, > Yours truly,> > Sanat> > > > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > dear respected sanat ji> > > > > > > > because i feel like respecting u now> > > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless> > knowledge .> > > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt > of our> > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too ,> > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena > and u> > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me > a> > less important person> > > > now i need one more lesson frm u> > > > > > > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say > in> > this .( i mean connection )> > > > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re > birth> > and series of births and re births .Also how they use it > astrologicaly> > tru various questions a nativ can ask .> > > > > > > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --> forget abt> > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek > religious> > support in ur analysis .> > > > > > > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is> > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european> > languages .> > > > > > > > > > > > u answers will b highly appreciated .> > > > > > > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6> > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and> > universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .> > > > > > > > with all respect and charan sparsh> > > > > > > > regrds prashanth Nair> > > > > > , "sanat2221"> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > >> > > Resp. Nair ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that> > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof> > > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left > the> > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would > have> > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been > based on> > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious> > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,> > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead > of> > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius > (half> > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces > etc.> > > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion > originated> > > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the> > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these > signs> > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As> > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the> > > path of Moon.> > >> > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of> > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as > Made> > > in India.> > >> > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their > comment.> > >> > > Yours truly,> > > Sanat> > >> > >> > > , "Avtar Krishen> Kaul"> > > jyotirved@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,> > > > Namaskar!> > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> lines i> > > dont> > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets> > > till> > > > today avialble .>> > > >> > > > Here are the "written proofs":> > > >> > > > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving> from > the> > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions > were> > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five > known> > > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and> > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to > us> > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"> > > > Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and> Julia Parker--> -> > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.> > > >> > > > "...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is > protrayed> > > on> > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god> > > Sin,> > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated> > > > Chaldean mythology"...same page of the above work.> > > > "....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible> for the> > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,> > > Libra> > > > Cancer and Capricorn...." page 13 of the above work.> > > > "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of> > > gigantic> > > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 > feet> > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of> > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly> > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was> > > begun> > > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity > (2079-> > > > 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.> > > > With regards,> > > > A K Kaul> > > >> > > >> > > > ,> "prashanthnair999"> > > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > respected kaul ji> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > namaskar> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available> > > > > to support this hypothesis[2> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> lines > i> > > dont> > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform > tablets> > > > till> > > > > today avialble .> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,> > > > >> > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick> to > it> > > what> > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "Avtar> Krishen > Kaul"> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > History> > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of> > > astrology,> > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some> > > speculation> > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the > Sumerian> > > > period> > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written> evidence is> > > > available> > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2]. By the 16th century> B.C. its> > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun> to > take> > > > shape> > > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most> important of> > > these> > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of> 70> > > tablets> > > > of> > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine> or > victory> > > in> > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial > occurrences> > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event.> However > texts> > > > from> > > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin> and> > > > content of> > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time> Babylonian> > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th> century > B.C.> > > > the> > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very> > rudimentary.> > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict> future> > > celestial> > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,> > > > interpretations> > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly> before. By > the> > > 4th> > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had> progressed> > > > enough to> > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable > accuracy,> > > at> > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > > ---> >

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Dear Prashant ji,

Once a old lady went to a saint with a book and told him

Maharaj i took the origional Geeta that consists of

1600 shlokas.The Geeta, that have 700 shlokas and

which we read daily, is incomplete.To listen her words

the saints asks "how many days you spent for such research?"

She answered "30 years", to hear his answer the saint

says "You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you

follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get

the MOKSHA/GOD.

The same is applied on Mr.Sanat and Mr.Kaul like persons.

A number of persons go to the astrologers for getting solutions daily.

Are they all mad? Ketu is a melafic planet and give bad results are written in Ramcharitmans at three places.As God is the result

of Aastha as the same the birth dates of various Avtars may be

right or wrong but to celebrate them is a matter purely "Aastha"

otherwise who saw God even though we have firm belief on his

existance.So let them speak and go forward.

 

Ratnaakar

[Astrologer]--- On Mon, 11/24/08, prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999 wrote:

prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999 Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:21 PM

 

 

 

 

dear respected kalyanaraman ji

 

thanks ,thanks for everything

I think i heard abt u ,if i am not mistaken .

at least one memebr has come out with bold opinions ,other wise a pre set agenda was going on here in the name of scientific discussions .Just call astrologers who r not well trained in debates and just blving in defeating them by asking 100000 question s who has no money nor resources to answer this guys ( as asking question frm all vedas and puranas and this and that )

i am sure by now they r getting some monetary support for doing all this activities

other wise why allready proven discussed questions again resurfacing as questions to any new comers ,so what is hidden agenda behind it ?? is just defeating ignorent one's is victory ,i blv in exprtise in what some one is doing ,i blv my electician shud b best in his work than he knows or not how bulb is functioning .

Now we shud ask same question on scientific back ground of spices and ingredients we use in making our dishes ,if our mom or wife dont answer it properly we shud call them frauds and fakes

check in any hotel and ask this question to main chef ,and he will go mad and will recommnd to throw u out of hotel

while travelling in flight call pilot and ask scientific basis of flight engineering than his merit in doing his duty and keep on arguing with him ,dont allow him to do his duty ,call him fraud and fake

u can do like this to any one ,even to ur driver or even ur servant girl

so world will b a better place full of scientists .

now some incidents happened in reality ,

KN rao invited one PS iyyer ( now no more ) for annual meeting of astrologers in delhi and audience requested him to demonstrte his skill .he agreed and some 35 memebrs selected frm audience

and he answered every one without even asking one counter question ,he was not using a computer nor doing any charts even

all prediction ranged frm 6 months to 2 yrs to b full filled ,all recorded by Bharatiya vidhya bhavan astrology students and they followed up

the result was100% success .And it is available for public scrutiny

 

one man who is good in doing ashtamangalya prashna was calld in delhi to show his skills ( same prashna is using in big families ,palaces and even temples )

he even asked KN rao for a astrologer who can chllenge or refute his findings and all was arrnaged and it go on for a week ,rao even offered computer help which he rejected as he was doing all calculation mentaly and on paper .

and it go on for a week and 100s of ppl who ever came there got their predictions even without charts .

and again it was gr8 success

i quote this incident as all this is recorded and available for public scrutiny and it got published in many journals

other wise my exprnces and exprmnts may b termed as unprooved or made up

i thanks u once again for ur time and the will to defend the truth what ever u blv is true .

 

with high regrds prashanth nair

 

I hope other memebr s may come out more openly to support or against views prented here and in grp generaly

 

 

, Kalyan Raman <angaraha wrote:>> Dear sanatji,>  > when you have all your freedom to say astrologersr are fake(it is not circastic) ,why not prashanth nair ji can have is own views about you.pl.think sir.As i told earlier a sincere (pl.underline sincere)attempt by way of prayer to the lord will clear all your doubts or a true belief in your master from whom u  have learnt the astrology can clear your doubts.Otherwise it is like waking up a person who is pretending like he is in a deep sleep.God bless all.> Raman> > --- On Sat, 22/11/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ... wrote:> > sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ...> Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia> > Saturday, 22 November, 2008, 5:38

PM> > Resp. Nair ji,> Namaskar,> In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for > vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge> ..<<<< and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with you, > despite I have answers on your every question. However you may > continue to interact with other member, so long they have no > objection on your language.> > If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point, > since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same > point for further interaction.> > Bye, > Yours truly,> > Sanat> > > > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > dear respected sanat ji>

> > > > > > > because i feel like respecting u now> > > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless> > knowledge .> > > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt > of our> > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too ,> > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena > and u> > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me > a> > less important person> > > > now i need one more lesson frm u> > > > > > > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say > in> > this .( i mean connection )> > > > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re > birth> >

and series of births and re births .Also how they use it > astrologicaly> > tru various questions a nativ can ask .> > > > > > > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --> forget abt> > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek > religious> > support in ur analysis .> > > > > > > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is> > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european> > languages .> > > > > > > > > > > > u answers will b highly appreciated .> > > > > > > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6> > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and> >

universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .> > > > > > > > with all respect and charan sparsh> > > > > > > > regrds prashanth Nair> > > > > > , "sanat2221"> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > >> > > Resp. Nair ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that> > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof> > > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left > the> > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would > have> > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been > based on> > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based

religious> > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,> > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead > of> > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius > (half> > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces > etc.> > > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion > originated> > > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the> > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these > signs> > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As> > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the> > > path of Moon.> > >> > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith

of> > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as > Made> > > in India.> > >> > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their > comment.> > >> > > Yours truly,> > > Sanat> > >> > >> > > , "Avtar Krishen> Kaul"> > > jyotirved@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,> > > > Namaskar!> > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> lines i> > > dont> > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets> > > till> > > > today avialble .>> > > >> > > > Here are the "written proofs":> > > >>

> > > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving> from > the> > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions > were> > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five > known> > > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and> > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to > us> > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"> > > > Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and> Julia Parker--> -> > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.> > > >> > > > "...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is > protrayed> > > on> > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god>

> > Sin,> > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated> > > > Chaldean mythology".. .same page of the above work.> > > > "....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible> for the> > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,> > > Libra> > > > Cancer and Capricorn... ." page 13 of the above work.> > > > "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of> > > gigantic> > > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 > feet> > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of> > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly> > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was> > > begun> > >

> by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity > (2079-> > > > 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.> > > > With regards,> > > > A K Kaul> > > >> > > >> > > > ,> "prashanthnair999"> > > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > respected kaul ji> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > namaskar> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available> > > > > to support this hypothesis[2> > > > >> > > >

>> > > > >> > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> lines > i> > > dont> > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform > tablets> > > > till> > > > > today avialble .> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,> > > > >> > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick> to > it> > > what> > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > @

. com, "Avtar> Krishen > Kaul"> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > History> > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of> > > astrology,> > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some> > > speculation> > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the > Sumerian> > > > period> > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written> evidence is> > > > available> > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2] . By the 16th century> B.C. its> > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun> to > take> > > > shape> > > > > > in

the astrological writings of the time, most> important of> > > these> > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of> 70> > > tablets> > > > of> > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine> or > victory> > > in> > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial > occurrences> > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event.> However > texts> > > > from> > > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin> and> > > > content of> > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time> Babylonian> > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th> century >

B.C.> > > > the> > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very> > rudimentary.> > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict> future> > > celestial> > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,> > > > interpretations> > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly> before. By > the> > > 4th> > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had> progressed> > > > enough to> > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable > accuracy,> > > at> > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]> > > > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > >> >> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> >

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Shri Ratnaakar (Atrologer) ji,

Namaskar!

It is a very interesting tidbit that you have related about

someone's " experience " of the Geeta!

 

You have said,

<the saint says " You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you

follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get the

MOKSHA/GOD.>

I would be obliged and even " enlightened " if you quote even one

shloka from any of the shastras, inclduing the Geeta (or is

it " Gita " !?) that has advised us to go to soothsayers for having a

glimpse of the future!

 

It appears you have not read even the " Geeta " yourself (as it is

not 'prescribed' as a textbook in 'Vedic astrology' courses!) since

in the midst of the battlefield, when Arjuna said to Krishna, " We do

not know whether we (i.e. Pandavas) will win the war or they (i.e.

Kauravas)will win it " , Bhagwan Krishna should have advised Arjuna to

approach some jyotishi, especially as the so called " Brihat Parashara

Hora Shastra " is supposed to have been " revealed " by Maharshi

Parashara, the father of Krishna Dwaipayana Vedavyasa, to Maitreyi!

As Maharshi Parashara is ssaid to be a contemporary of Bhagwan

Krishna, So Lord Krishna should have said to Arjuna something

like, " O Arjuna, what a fool you are! Why don't you go to Parashara

Rishi and ask him to consult his Parashari to see Dashamsha, Navamsha

etc. and also Dasha-Bhukti etc. in your horoscope and find out

whether you have a Raja-yoga or not. Only after getting an assurance

from Parashara Rishi that your planets are favourable, then and only

you must wage a war against Kauravas " .

 

No! Bhagwan Krishna did not say anything like that! What may

actually be a bolt from the blue for " Vedic Jyotishis " is the

statement of Bhagwan Krishna in the same " Geeta " that you have

flaunted so valiantly, " hato va prapsyasi swargam jitva va bokshyase

maheem " ---i.e. " If you get killed in the battlefield, you will go to

the heavens and if you win the war, you will be the master of entire

globe " . It is actually a rebuke to " Vedic astrologers " --an

admonishment to them that even if they are capable of peeping into

the future, which actually they are not, they must desist from

revealing beforehand as to what is going to happen to whom and when!

 

The same " Geeta " has also said that when someone starts considering

adharma as dharma, and views everything in an entirely opposite

fashion (upside doen!), you can rest assured that that person is

enveloped by Tamoguna! " Vedic astrologers " are a living example of

Tamoguni budhi since a non-existent " Vedic astrology " is the real

dharma for them but they cannot see that they are celebratig all

their festivals and muhurtas on wrong days because of the same curse

that they call Vedic astrology!

And they go on pontificating to the whole world that they are " Vedic

astrologers " --which by implication should mean that they have studied

all the Vedas and have arrived at the conclusion that the Vedas are

full of predictive gimmicks and techniques of Dasha-Bhukti and what

not!

And if someone points out to them these anachronism, he/she is dubbed

as " missionary getting funds from Xtians " .

But then that is just another proof of their tamoguni budhi!

My humble request to these jyotishis is that instead of sarcastic

remarks about the " Geeta " they better study it thoroughly, instead of

Tomes of volumes about non-existent Vedic astrology, and rid

themselves of Tamoguni budhi, so that they stop considering adharma

as dharma and vice-versa!

Dhanyavad.

A K Kaul

, Ratnaakar

<namra_nivedan wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear Prashant ji,

> Once a old lady went to a saint with a book and told him 

> Maharaj i took the origional Geeta that consists of

> 1600 shlokas.The Geeta, that have 700 shlokas and

> which we read daily, is incomplete.To listen her words

> the saints asks " how many days you spent for such research? "

> She answered " 30 years " , to hear his answer the saint

> says " You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you

> follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get

> the MOKSHA/GOD.

> The same is applied on Mr.Sanat and Mr.Kaul like persons.

> A number of persons go to the astrologers for getting solutions

daily.

> Are they all mad? Ketu is a melafic planet and give bad results

are                  written in Ramcharitmans at three places.As God

is the result

> of Aastha as the same the birth dates of various Avtars may be

> right or wrong but to celebrate them is a matter purely " Aastha "

> otherwise who saw God even though we have firm belief on his

> existance.So let them speak and go forward.

>

>  

>  Ratnaakar

> [Astrologer]

>

> --- On Mon, 11/24/08, prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

> prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999

> Re: Babylonian astrology as per

Wikipedia

>

> Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:21 PM

>

 

> dear respected kalyanaraman ji

>  

> thanks ,thanks for everything

> I think i heard abt  u ,if i am not mistaken .

> at least one memebr has come out with bold opinions ,other wise a

pre set agenda was going on here in the name of scientific

discussions .Just call astrologers who r not well trained in debates

and just blving in defeating them by asking 100000 question s who has

no money nor resources to answer this guys ( as asking question frm

all vedas and puranas and this and that )

> i am sure by now they r getting some monetary support for doing all

this activities

> other wise why allready proven discussed questions again

resurfacing as questions to any new comers ,so what is hidden agenda

behind it ?? is just defeating ignorent one's is victory ,i blv in

exprtise in what some one is doing ,i blv my electician shud b best

in his work than he knows or not how bulb is functioning .

> Now we shud ask same question on scientific back ground of spices

and ingredients we use in making our dishes ,if our mom or wife dont

answer it properly we shud call them frauds and fakes

> check in any hotel and ask this question to main chef ,and he will

go mad and will recommnd to throw u out of hotel

> while travelling in flight call pilot and ask scientific basis of

flight engineering than his merit in doing his duty and keep on

arguing with him ,dont allow him to do his duty ,call him fraud and

fake

> u can do like this to any one ,even to ur driver or even ur servant

girl

> so world will b a better place full of scientists .

> now some incidents happened in reality ,

> KN rao invited one PS iyyer ( now no more ) for annual meeting of

astrologers in delhi and audience  requested him to demonstrte his

skill .he agreed and some 35 memebrs selected frm audience

> and he answered every one without even asking one counter

question ,he was not using a computer nor doing any charts even

> all prediction ranged frm 6 months to 2 yrs to b full filled ,all

recorded by Bharatiya vidhya bhavan astrology students and they

followed up

> the result was100% success .And it is available for public scrutiny

>  

> one man who is good in doing ashtamangalya prashna was calld in

delhi to show his skills ( same prashna is using in big

families ,palaces and even temples )

> he even asked KN rao for a astrologer who can chllenge or refute

his findings and all was arrnaged and it go on for a week ,rao even

offered computer help which he rejected as he was doing all

calculation mentaly and on paper .

> and it go on for a week and 100s of ppl who ever came there got

their predictions even without charts .

> and again it was gr8 success

> i quote this incident as all this is recorded and available for

public scrutiny and it got published in many journals

> other wise my exprnces and exprmnts may b termed as unprooved or

made up

> i thanks u once again for ur time and the will to defend the truth

what ever u blv is true .

>  

> with high regrds prashanth nair

>  

>  I hope other memebr s may come out more openly to support or

against views prented here and in grp generaly

>  

>  

>

> , Kalyan Raman

<angaraha@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear sanatji,

> >  

> > when you have all your freedom to say astrologersr are fake(it is

not circastic) ,why not prashanth nair ji can have is own views

about you.pl.think sir.As i told earlier a sincere (pl.underline

sincere)attempt by way of prayer to the lord will clear all your

doubts or a true belief in your master from whom u  have learnt

the astrology can clear your doubts.Otherwise it is like waking up a

person who is pretending like he is in a deep sleep.God bless all.

> > Raman

> >

> > --- On Sat, 22/11/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ... wrote:

> >

> > sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ...

> > Re: Babylonian astrology as per

Wikipedia

> >

> > Saturday, 22 November, 2008, 5:38 PM

> >

> > Resp. Nair ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for

> > vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge

> > ..<<<<<

> > and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with

you,

> > despite I have answers on your every question. However you may

> > continue to interact with other member, so long they have no

> > objection on your language.

> >

> > If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point,

> > since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same

> > point for further interaction.

> >

> > Bye,

> > Yours truly,

> >

> > Sanat

> >

> >

> >

> > , " prashanthnair999 "

> > prashanthnair999@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > dear respected sanat ji

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > because i feel like respecting u now

> > >

> > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial

baseless

> > > knowledge .

> > >

> > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in

frnt

> > of our

> > > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise

too ,

> > > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling

arena

> > and u

> > > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering

to me

> > a

> > > less important person

> > >

> > > now i need one more lesson frm u

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a

say

> > in

> > > this .( i mean connection )

> > >

> > > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re

> > birth

> > > and series of births and re births .Also how they use it

> > astrologicaly

> > > tru various questions a nativ can ask .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --

> > forget abt

> > > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek

> > religious

> > > support in ur analysis .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which

is

> > > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -

european

> > > languages .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > u answers will b highly appreciated .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp

and 6

> > > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and

> > > universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > with all respect and charan sparsh

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > regrds prashanth Nair

> > >

> > >

> > > , " sanat2221 "

> > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Resp. Nair ji,

> > > > Namaskar,

> > > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think

that

> > > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big

proof

> > > > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may

left

> > the

> > > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages

would

> > have

> > > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been

> > based on

> > > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious

> > > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om,

elephant,

> > > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc.

instead

> > of

> > > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ),

Sagittarius

> > (half

> > > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal),

Pisces

> > etc.

> > > > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion

> > originated

> > > > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the

> > > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that

these

> > signs

> > > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the

universe. As

> > > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations

in the

> > > > path of Moon.

> > > >

> > > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the

faith of

> > > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information

as

> > Made

> > > > in India.

> > > >

> > > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their

> > comment.

> > > >

> > > > Yours truly,

> > > > Sanat

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " Avtar Krishen

> > Kaul "

> > > > jyotirved@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this

> > lines i

> > > > dont

> > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform

tablets

> > > > till

> > > > > today avialble .>

> > > > >

> > > > > Here are the " written proofs " :

> > > > >

> > > > > " ...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving

> > from

> > the

> > > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that

predictions

> > were

> > > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five

> > known

> > > > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and

> > > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come

down to

> > us

> > > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC "

> > > > > Page 12 of " The Compleat Astrologer " by Derek and

> > Julia Parker--

> > -

> > > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.

> > > > >

> > > > > " ...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is

> > protrayed

> > > > on

> > > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-

god

> > > > Sin,

> > > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin

domiated

> > > > > Chaldean mythology " .. .same page of the above work.

> > > > > " ....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible

> > for the

> > > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac.

Aries,

> > > > Libra

> > > > > Cancer and Capricorn... . " page 13 of the above work.

> > > > > " ...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of

> > > > gigantic

> > > > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to

300

> > feet

> > > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep

of

> > > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the

heavenly

> > > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below

was

> > > > begun

> > > > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian

Dynasity

> > (2079-

> > > > > 1960 BC)... " Page 13 of the above work.

> > > > > With regards,

> > > > > A K Kaul

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > " prashanthnair999 "

> > > > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > respected kaul ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > namaskar

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available

> > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this

> > lines

> > i

> > > > dont

> > > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform

> > tablets

> > > > > till

> > > > > > today avialble .

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick

> > to

> > it

> > > > what

> > > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regrds prashanth

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Avtar

> > Krishen

> > Kaul "

> > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > History

> > > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of

> > > > astrology,

> > > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some

> > > > speculation

> > > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the

> > Sumerian

> > > > > period

> > > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written

> > evidence is

> > > > > available

> > > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2] . By the 16th century

> > B.C. its

> > > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun

> > to

> > take

> > > > > shape

> > > > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most

> > important of

> > > > these

> > > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of

> > 70

> > > > tablets

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine

> > or

> > victory

> > > > in

> > > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial

> > occurrences

> > > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event.

> > However

> > texts

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin

> > and

> > > > > content of

> > > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time

> > Babylonian

> > > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th

> > century

> > B.C.

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very

> >

> > rudimentary.

> > > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict

> > future

> > > > celestial

> > > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,

> > > > > interpretations

> > > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly

> > before. By

> > the

> > > > 4th

> > > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had

> > progressed

> > > > > enough to

> > > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable

> > accuracy,

> > > > at

> > > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> >

> >

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Sh.Kaul Sahab (Ved Vyaas of present kaal)

First read Ramcharitmans and check what i said in

my first mail.Ok! and what Geeta tells us "To do Nishkaam

Karma and Karma always" because there is no alternate for

us except this and astrology never prevent some one to do

Karma.It only guides us how should we do plan our work against the Chakravuha of Mahabharat battle made by our destiny due to our

past bad karmas and astrological advices are like the (Chakravuha

BHEDAN) as Abhimanu tried same way we can be successful or not

it is depended on our destiny that is guided by Planets and Nakshatras

+ present good karmas nothing else.Do not be rigid as [16 duni 8] and

please read Geeta,Yoga Vasistha and Ramcharitmanas etc again

and again & try to reach on "SAAR - TATVA".To quota shloka to see

book is not enough at all.

 

Ati Dhanyavad Prabhu

Ratnaakar

 

 

Ratnaakar

[Astrologer]--- On Tue, 11/25/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 8:32 PM

 

 

Shri Ratnaakar (Atrologer) ji,Namaskar!It is a very interesting tidbit that you have related about someone's "experience" of the Geeta! You have said, <the saint says "You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get the MOKSHA/GOD.>I would be obliged and even "enlightened" if you quote even one shloka from any of the shastras, inclduing the Geeta (or is it "Gita"!?) that has advised us to go to soothsayers for having a glimpse of the future!It appears you have not read even the "Geeta" yourself (as it is not 'prescribed' as a textbook in 'Vedic astrology' courses!) since in the midst of the battlefield, when Arjuna said to Krishna, "We do not know whether we (i.e. Pandavas) will win the war or they (i.e. Kauravas)will win it", Bhagwan Krishna should have advised Arjuna to approach some jyotishi, especially

as the so called "Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra" is supposed to have been "revealed" by Maharshi Parashara, the father of Krishna Dwaipayana Vedavyasa, to Maitreyi! As Maharshi Parashara is ssaid to be a contemporary of Bhagwan Krishna, So Lord Krishna should have said to Arjuna something like, "O Arjuna, what a fool you are! Why don't you go to Parashara Rishi and ask him to consult his Parashari to see Dashamsha, Navamsha etc. and also Dasha-Bhukti etc. in your horoscope and find out whether you have a Raja-yoga or not. Only after getting an assurance from Parashara Rishi that your planets are favourable, then and only you must wage a war against Kauravas".No! Bhagwan Krishna did not say anything like that! What may actually be a bolt from the blue for "Vedic Jyotishis" is the statement of Bhagwan Krishna in the same "Geeta" that you have flaunted so valiantly, "hato va prapsyasi swargam

jitva va bokshyase maheem"---i. e. "If you get killed in the battlefield, you will go to the heavens and if you win the war, you will be the master of entire globe". It is actually a rebuke to "Vedic astrologers" --an admonishment to them that even if they are capable of peeping into the future, which actually they are not, they must desist from revealing beforehand as to what is going to happen to whom and when!The same "Geeta" has also said that when someone starts considering adharma as dharma, and views everything in an entirely opposite fashion (upside doen!), you can rest assured that that person is enveloped by Tamoguna! "Vedic astrologers" are a living example of Tamoguni budhi since a non-existent "Vedic astrology" is the real dharma for them but they cannot see that they are celebratig all their festivals and muhurtas on wrong days because of the same curse that they call Vedic

astrology!And they go on pontificating to the whole world that they are "Vedic astrologers" --which by implication should mean that they have studied all the Vedas and have arrived at the conclusion that the Vedas are full of predictive gimmicks and techniques of Dasha-Bhukti and what not!And if someone points out to them these anachronism, he/she is dubbed as "missionary getting funds from Xtians". But then that is just another proof of their tamoguni budhi!My humble request to these jyotishis is that instead of sarcastic remarks about the "Geeta" they better study it thoroughly, instead of Tomes of volumes about non-existent Vedic astrology, and rid themselves of Tamoguni budhi, so that they stop considering adharma as dharma and vice-versa!Dhanyavad.A K Kaul,

Ratnaakar <namra_nivedan@ ...> wrote:>> > > Dear Prashant ji,> Once a old lady went to a saint with a book and told him > Maharaj i took the origional Geeta that consists of > 1600 shlokas. The Geeta, that have 700 shlokas and > which we read daily, is incomplete.To listen her words > the saints asks "how many days you spent for such research?"> She answered "30 years", to hear his answer the saint> says "You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you > follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get> the MOKSHA/GOD.> The same is applied on Mr.Sanat and Mr.Kaul like persons.> A number of persons go to the astrologers for getting solutions daily.> Are they all mad? Ketu is a melafic planet and give bad results

are written in Ramcharitmans at three places.As God is the result> of Aastha as the same the birth dates of various Avtars may be> right or wrong but to celebrate them is a matter purely "Aastha"> otherwise who saw God even though we have firm belief on his> existance.So let them speak and go forward.> > > Ratnaakar> [Astrologer]> > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999@ ...> wrote:> > prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999@ ...>> Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia> > Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:21 PM> >

> > > > > > > dear respected kalyanaraman ji > > thanks ,thanks for everything > I think i heard abt u ,if i am not mistaken .> at least one memebr has come out with bold opinions ,other wise a pre set agenda was going on here in the name of scientific discussions .Just call astrologers who r not well trained in debates and just blving in defeating them by asking 100000 question s who has no money nor resources to answer this guys ( as asking question frm all vedas and puranas and this and that ) > i am sure by now they r getting some monetary support for doing all this activities > other wise why allready proven discussed questions again resurfacing as questions to any new comers ,so what is hidden agenda behind it ?? is just defeating ignorent one's is victory ,i blv in exprtise in what some one is doing ,i

blv my electician shud b best in his work than he knows or not how bulb is functioning .> Now we shud ask same question on scientific back ground of spices and ingredients we use in making our dishes ,if our mom or wife dont answer it properly we shud call them frauds and fakes > check in any hotel and ask this question to main chef ,and he will go mad and will recommnd to throw u out of hotel > while travelling in flight call pilot and ask scientific basis of flight engineering than his merit in doing his duty and keep on arguing with him ,dont allow him to do his duty ,call him fraud and fake > u can do like this to any one ,even to ur driver or even ur servant girl > so world will b a better place full of scientists .> now some incidents happened in reality ,> KN rao invited one PS iyyer ( now no more ) for annual meeting of astrologers in delhi and audience

requested him to demonstrte his skill .he agreed and some 35 memebrs selected frm audience > and he answered every one without even asking one counter question ,he was not using a computer nor doing any charts even > all prediction ranged frm 6 months to 2 yrs to b full filled ,all recorded by Bharatiya vidhya bhavan astrology students and they followed up > the result was100% success .And it is available for public scrutiny > > one man who is good in doing ashtamangalya prashna was calld in delhi to show his skills ( same prashna is using in big families ,palaces and even temples ) > he even asked KN rao for a astrologer who can chllenge or refute his findings and all was arrnaged and it go on for a week ,rao even offered computer help which he rejected as he was doing all calculation mentaly and on paper .> and it go on for a week and 100s of ppl who ever

came there got their predictions even without charts .> and again it was gr8 success > i quote this incident as all this is recorded and available for public scrutiny and it got published in many journals > other wise my exprnces and exprmnts may b termed as unprooved or made up > i thanks u once again for ur time and the will to defend the truth what ever u blv is true .> > with high regrds prashanth nair > > I hope other memebr s may come out more openly to support or against views prented here and in grp generaly > > > > , Kalyan Raman <angaraha@> wrote:> >> > Dear sanatji,> > Â > > when you have all your freedom to say astrologersr are fake(it is not circastic)Â ,why not prashanth nair ji can have is own views

about you.pl.think sir.As i told earlier a sincere (pl.underline sincere)attempt by way of prayer to the lord will clear all your doubts or a true belief in your master from whom u  have learnt the astrology can clear your doubts.Otherwise it is like waking up a person who is pretending like he is in a deep sleep.God bless all.> > Raman> > > > --- On Sat, 22/11/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ... wrote:> > > > sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ...> > Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia> > > > Saturday, 22 November, 2008, 5:38 PM> > > > Resp. Nair ji,> > Namaskar,> > In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for > > vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial

baseless knowledge> > ..<<<< > and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with you, > > despite I have answers on your every question. However you may > > continue to interact with other member, so long they have no > > objection on your language.> > > > If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point, > > since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same > > point for further interaction.> > > > Bye, > > Yours truly,> > > > Sanat> > > > > > > > , "prashanthnair999" > > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> > >> > > > > > dear respected sanat ji> > > > > > > > > > > > because i

feel like respecting u now> > > > > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless> > > knowledge .> > > > > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt > > of our> > > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too ,> > > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena > > and u> > > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me > > a> > > less important person> > > > > > now i need one more lesson frm u> > > > > > > > > > > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say > > in> > > this .( i mean connection )> > > > > > also how it

support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re > > birth> > > and series of births and re births .Also how they use it > > astrologicaly> > > tru various questions a nativ can ask .> > > > > > > > > > > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --> > forget abt> > > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek > > religious> > > support in ur analysis .> > > > > > > > > > > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is> > > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european> > > languages .> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > u answers will b highly appreciated .>

> > > > > > > > > > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6> > > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and> > > universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .> > > > > > > > > > > > with all respect and charan sparsh> > > > > > > > > > > > regrds prashanth Nair> > > > > > > > > , "sanat2221"> > > <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Resp. Nair ji,> > > > Namaskar,> > > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that> > > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof> > > > that sign

name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left > > the> > > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would > > have> > > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been > > based on> > > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious> > > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,> > > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead > > of> > > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius > > (half> > > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces > > etc.> > > > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion > > originated> > > > in India, whereas these symbols have

sufficient backing in the> > > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these > > signs> > > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As> > > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the> > > > path of Moon.> > > >> > > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of> > > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as > > Made> > > > in India.> > > >> > > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their > > comment.> > > >> > > > Yours truly,> > > > Sanat> > > >> > > >> > > > , "Avtar

Krishen> > Kaul"> > > > jyotirved@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,> > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> > lines i> > > > dont> > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets> > > > till> > > > > today avialble .>> > > > >> > > > > Here are the "written proofs":> > > > >> > > > > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving> > from > > the> > > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions > > were> > > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five > > known> >

> > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and> > > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to > > us> > > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"> > > > > Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and> > Julia Parker--> > -> > > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.> > > > >> > > > > "...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is > > protrayed> > > > on> > > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god> > > > Sin,> > > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated> > > > > Chaldean mythology".. .same page of the above work.> > > > >

"....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible> > for the> > > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,> > > > Libra> > > > > Cancer and Capricorn... ." page 13 of the above work.> > > > > "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of> > > > gigantic> > > > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 > > feet> > > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of> > > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly> > > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was> > > > begun> > > > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity > > (2079-> > > >

> 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.> > > > > With regards,> > > > > A K Kaul> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ,> > "prashanthnair999"> > > > > <prashanthnair999@ > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > respected kaul ji> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > namaskar> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available> > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2> > > > > >> > > >

> >> > > > > >> > > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> > lines > > i> > > > dont> > > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform > > tablets> > > > > till> > > > > > today avialble .> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,> > > > > >> > > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick> > to > > it> > > > what> > > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > regrds

prashanth> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "Avtar> > Krishen > > Kaul"> > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > History> > > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of> > > > astrology,> > > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some> > > > speculation> > > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the > > Sumerian> > > > > period> > > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written> > evidence is> > > > > available> > > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2] .

By the 16th century> > B.C. its> > > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun> > to > > take> > > > > shape> > > > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most> > important of> > > > these> > > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of> > 70> > > > tablets> > > > > of> > > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine> > or > > victory> > > > in> > > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial > > occurrences> > > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event.> > However > > texts> > > > > from> > > >

> > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin> > and> > > > > content of> > > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time> > Babylonian> > > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th> > century > > B.C.> > > > > the> > > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very> > > > rudimentary.> > > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict> > future> > > > celestial> > > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,> > > > > interpretations> > > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly> > before. By > > the> > > > 4th>

> > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had> > progressed> > > > > enough to> > > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable > > accuracy,> > > > at> > > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > > >

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dear ratnakar ji

Thanks for ur good words And coming out open with ur strong opinions

But i wud suggest u to not to waiste time here by answering with this pre st agenda tuned ppl ,they r neither scientific nor vedic ,or any one with normal brains other than executing a false agenda .Now u will face same set of questions already pre -set and will face same attacks many others faced here .

They will ask Michal anglelo How u r painting and if he cannot reply he is not painter but a fraud .

In kerala where i belong a classical training in astrology start with sanskrit education ,epics ,Mahakavyas and then many other streams of knowledge like architecture to ayurveda ,then they will b taught in Horas ( like parasari ,yavana ,varaha ) then our local texts in astrology like krishneeyam ,madhaveeyam and lately prashna maarga ,Kowdi kriyas etc .Then guru parmparas own secrets .THis done depending on the intelleligence of students which shud b taught first .again they will b always down to earth practical ppl means they know what is going on around them and not living in dream world

all this learning is by rot too ( after anlayticaly uner standing it ),means the astrologer is not simply declaring the results but many times they produce quotes for supporting their finding frm various classics as who ever consults them also learned one's .Again with raja jyothishies they r tested many times to proove them selves b4 getting appnted

 

A preists son can b another preist in a mandir but astrologers son cannot b next palace astrologer unless he prooved his might .

 

So they brand such astrologers as frauds and cheats and charlatans .Where as can u ask them one vedic sermon and it s real meanings or one classical astrological doubts ?? ( u can find they run for cover their ass ) so much their eligibility .I realy was laughing when i read one of the grand old man in this forum said why he cud not see indiara's death .( why other astrologer s not predicted--because they r not being paid for it ,and if u predict b prepared to face jail too under terrorist act ,i know what happened in last time when some one predicted a flood in madras ,the astrologer was put in jail but some ruling MPs helped him to come out )

 

did we call our own teachers frauds or like that who taught us in Nursery or primary school because they dont know quantum physics

This ppl will do it as they born with guru chandala yogas ,so will sell everything for money ,evn mother ,sister or even own country .for few dollars or euros .

why cant they respect ppl ??

because they consider other person like they r in a fighting ground and they blv in some how winning over the nativ than academic discussions ( do u think in academic discussion some one call others frauds but if u call them it s un parliamntary ), ,if u go tru all old messges if u r a new memebr u can find it the double standard they follows .

so this discipline as astrology ( in indian and world history astrologers were astronomers and scientists too till almost 14th to 15th century and later strted parting the ways ) has gone tru all the tests but first time in world history we r hearing this kind of foolish questions which only aim is not to know the reality .( sample questions on their futility is already there all over this forum ,it is like asking our driver abt mechanical engineering ,sure no harm in he learns it or if he cud answer it but the reality is no one including this so called psudo chaps also cant answer it ,if so i am ready to challenge them on science grounds or history grounds ,because they called themself so ,even on vedic grounds )

if they say it is predictiv gimmiks then they shud accpet the worth in that sense than asking this kind of non existant unapplicable questions .As prrof of the pudding is in eating it .No amnt of literature will solve that problem .

 

even intelligent person will do that only .

 

it is like a person shud not get up frm bed unless he knows why sun is rising in east .And other wise they collectivly shout and call he is fraud ( in reality they also dont know .but why ask such question to others so they will run and will try to find out many things and they can label themself as extra ordinary and the same time we r progrmming a hidden agenda otherwise many others has pointed out many things but they always strt frm scratch with same questions with any new memebrs and it clearly shows wat they r realy after and u also b ready to face such things unless u lose ur temper and either u will become silent ,or sign out or they can ban u when u call them names-Then again in between the moderater post wil appear welcoming new memebrs and no one answered us . )

How life evolved in world is a simple question and science is after that and i dont think another 1000yrs they can answer it unless they come close to hindu finding s.But we shud not call them fraud s and we will not call also as every stream of knowledge we respects .

so that much for their science ,and meshadi rasi sermon of our archbishop (without this sentense he will not get his funding ) so repeats and cut and paste frm it in every posts .

so identify their false agenda and in reality it is some thing else other wise this forum wud hav become a real intellectual discussion and in such discussions no one will ask others to proov frm scratch which already prooved .

( u just see 100 of posts they un answered here in forum ( if they know why they shud wait for some one to come to ask and answer it , and those who posted either they go away or they r banned and this ppl r hiding the truth ) because this ppl will not avilable for answer for it for 10 days when they cannot answer and drag the memebrs tru un neccessry areas by coming as other memebrs or ids ( which appears only in such situations ) ,if u ask one question to one of them , some one will come to save skin of other or drag u to some other areas .

if they r true in spirit why all this games ???

 

so i wish u all the best .

 

regrds prashanth nair

, Ratnaakar <namra_nivedan wrote:>> > > Dear Prashant ji,> Once a old lady went to a saint with a book and told him > Maharaj i took the origional Geeta that consists of > 1600 shlokas.The Geeta, that have 700 shlokas and > which we read daily, is incomplete.To listen her words > the saints asks "how many days you spent for such research?"> She answered "30 years", to hear his answer the saint> says "You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you > follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get> the MOKSHA/GOD.> The same is applied on Mr.Sanat and Mr.Kaul like persons.> A number of persons go to the astrologers for getting solutions daily.> Are they all mad? Ketu is a melafic planet and give bad results are written in Ramcharitmans at three places.As God is the result> of Aastha as the same the birth dates of various Avtars may be> right or wrong but to celebrate them is a matter purely "Aastha"> otherwise who saw God even though we have firm belief on his> existance.So let them speak and go forward.> > > Ratnaakar> [Astrologer]> > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, prashanthnair999 prashanthnair999 wrote:> > prashanthnair999 prashanthnair999 Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia> > Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:21 PM> > > > > > > > > dear respected kalyanaraman ji > > thanks ,thanks for everything > I think i heard abt u ,if i am not mistaken .> at least one memebr has come out with bold opinions ,other wise a pre set agenda was going on here in the name of scientific discussions .Just call astrologers who r not well trained in debates and just blving in defeating them by asking 100000 question s who has no money nor resources to answer this guys ( as asking question frm all vedas and puranas and this and that ) > i am sure by now they r getting some monetary support for doing all this activities > other wise why allready proven discussed questions again resurfacing as questions to any new comers ,so what is hidden agenda behind it ?? is just defeating ignorent one's is victory ,i blv in exprtise in what some one is doing ,i blv my electician shud b best in his work than he knows or not how bulb is functioning .> Now we shud ask same question on scientific back ground of spices and ingredients we use in making our dishes ,if our mom or wife dont answer it properly we shud call them frauds and fakes > check in any hotel and ask this question to main chef ,and he will go mad and will recommnd to throw u out of hotel > while travelling in flight call pilot and ask scientific basis of flight engineering than his merit in doing his duty and keep on arguing with him ,dont allow him to do his duty ,call him fraud and fake > u can do like this to any one ,even to ur driver or even ur servant girl > so world will b a better place full of scientists .> now some incidents happened in reality ,> KN rao invited one PS iyyer ( now no more ) for annual meeting of astrologers in delhi and audience requested him to demonstrte his skill .he agreed and some 35 memebrs selected frm audience > and he answered every one without even asking one counter question ,he was not using a computer nor doing any charts even > all prediction ranged frm 6 months to 2 yrs to b full filled ,all recorded by Bharatiya vidhya bhavan astrology students and they followed up > the result was100% success .And it is available for public scrutiny > > one man who is good in doing ashtamangalya prashna was calld in delhi to show his skills ( same prashna is using in big families ,palaces and even temples ) > he even asked KN rao for a astrologer who can chllenge or refute his findings and all was arrnaged and it go on for a week ,rao even offered computer help which he rejected as he was doing all calculation mentaly and on paper .> and it go on for a week and 100s of ppl who ever came there got their predictions even without charts .> and again it was gr8 success > i quote this incident as all this is recorded and available for public scrutiny and it got published in many journals > other wise my exprnces and exprmnts may b termed as unprooved or made up > i thanks u once again for ur time and the will to defend the truth what ever u blv is true .> > with high regrds prashanth nair > > I hope other memebr s may come out more openly to support or against views prented here and in grp generaly > > > > , Kalyan Raman angaraha@ wrote:> >> > Dear sanatji,> >  > > when you have all your freedom to say astrologersr are fake(it is not circastic) ,why not prashanth nair ji can have is own views about you.pl.think sir.As i told earlier a sincere (pl.underline sincere)attempt by way of prayer to the lord will clear all your doubts or a true belief in your master from whom u  have learnt the astrology can clear your doubts.Otherwise it is like waking up a person who is pretending like he is in a deep sleep.God bless all.> > Raman> > > > --- On Sat, 22/11/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ... wrote:> > > > sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ...> > Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia> > > > Saturday, 22 November, 2008, 5:38 PM> > > > Resp. Nair ji,> > Namaskar,> > In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for > > vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge> > ..<<<< > and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with you, > > despite I have answers on your every question. However you may > > continue to interact with other member, so long they have no > > objection on your language.> > > > If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point, > > since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same > > point for further interaction.> > > > Bye, > > Yours truly,> > > > Sanat> > > > > > > > , "prashanthnair999" > > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> > >> > > > > > dear respected sanat ji> > > > > > > > > > > > because i feel like respecting u now> > > > > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless> > > knowledge .> > > > > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in frnt > > of our> > > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise too ,> > > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling arena > > and u> > > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering to me > > a> > > less important person> > > > > > now i need one more lesson frm u> > > > > > > > > > > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a say > > in> > > this .( i mean connection )> > > > > > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re > > birth> > > and series of births and re births .Also how they use it > > astrologicaly> > > tru various questions a nativ can ask .> > > > > > > > > > > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --> > forget abt> > > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek > > religious> > > support in ur analysis .> > > > > > > > > > > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which is> > > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -european> > > languages .> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > u answers will b highly appreciated .> > > > > > > > > > > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp and 6> > > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and> > > universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .> > > > > > > > > > > > with all respect and charan sparsh> > > > > > > > > > > > regrds prashanth Nair> > > > > > > > > , "sanat2221"> > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Resp. Nair ji,> > > > Namaskar,> > > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think that> > > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big proof> > > > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may left > > the> > > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages would > > have> > > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been > > based on> > > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious> > > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, elephant,> > > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. instead > > of> > > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), Sagittarius > > (half> > > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), Pisces > > etc.> > > > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion > > originated> > > > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the> > > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that these > > signs> > > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the universe. As> > > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations in the> > > > path of Moon.> > > >> > > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the faith of> > > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information as > > Made> > > > in India.> > > >> > > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their > > comment.> > > >> > > > Yours truly,> > > > Sanat> > > >> > > >> > > > , "Avtar Krishen> > Kaul"> > > > jyotirved@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,> > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> > lines i> > > > dont> > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform tablets> > > > till> > > > > today avialble .>> > > > >> > > > > Here are the "written proofs":> > > > >> > > > > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving> > from > > the> > > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that predictions > > were> > > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five > > known> > > > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and> > > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come down to > > us> > > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"> > > > > Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and> > Julia Parker--> > -> > > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.> > > > >> > > > > "...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is > > protrayed> > > > on> > > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-god> > > > Sin,> > > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin domiated> > > > > Chaldean mythology".. .same page of the above work.> > > > > "....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible> > for the> > > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. Aries,> > > > Libra> > > > > Cancer and Capricorn... ." page 13 of the above work.> > > > > "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of> > > > gigantic> > > > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to 300 > > feet> > > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep of> > > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the heavenly> > > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below was> > > > begun> > > > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian Dynasity > > (2079-> > > > > 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.> > > > > With regards,> > > > > A K Kaul> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ,> > "prashanthnair999"> > > > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > respected kaul ji> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > namaskar> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available> > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> > lines > > i> > > > dont> > > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform > > tablets> > > > > till> > > > > > today avialble .> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,> > > > > >> > > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick> > to > > it> > > > what> > > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "Avtar> > Krishen > > Kaul"> > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > History> > > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of> > > > astrology,> > > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some> > > > speculation> > > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the > > Sumerian> > > > > period> > > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written> > evidence is> > > > > available> > > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2] . By the 16th century> > B.C. its> > > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun> > to > > take> > > > > shape> > > > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most> > important of> > > > these> > > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of> > 70> > > > tablets> > > > > of> > > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine> > or > > victory> > > > in> > > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial > > occurrences> > > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event.> > However > > texts> > > > > from> > > > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin> > and> > > > > content of> > > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time> > Babylonian> > > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th> > century > > B.C.> > > > > the> > > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very> > > > rudimentary.> > > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict> > future> > > > celestial> > > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,> > > > > interpretations> > > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly> > before. By > > the> > > > 4th> > > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had> > progressed> > > > > enough to> > > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable > > accuracy,> > > > at> > > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > > >

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Shri Ratnaakar (Astrologer)ji,

Namaskar!

<Ketu is a melafic planet and give bad results are

written in Ramcharitmans at three places.>

 

1. Could you pl. give the exact references of those three places and

also as to in which context it has been written.

2. What was the date of birth of Goswami Tulsidas according to you?

Dhanyavad.

AKK

 

, Ratnaakar

<namra_nivedan wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear Prashant ji,

> Once a old lady went to a saint with a book and told him 

> Maharaj i took the origional Geeta that consists of

> 1600 shlokas.The Geeta, that have 700 shlokas and

> which we read daily, is incomplete.To listen her words

> the saints asks " how many days you spent for such research? "

> She answered " 30 years " , to hear his answer the saint

> says " You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you

> follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get

> the MOKSHA/GOD.

> The same is applied on Mr.Sanat and Mr.Kaul like persons.

> A number of persons go to the astrologers for getting solutions

daily.

> Are they all mad? Ketu is a melafic planet and give bad results

are                  written in Ramcharitmans at three places.As God

is the result

> of Aastha as the same the birth dates of various Avtars may be

> right or wrong but to celebrate them is a matter purely " Aastha "

> otherwise who saw God even though we have firm belief on his

> existance.So let them speak and go forward.

>

>  

>  Ratnaakar

> [Astrologer]

>

> --- On Mon, 11/24/08, prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

> prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999

> Re: Babylonian astrology as per

Wikipedia

>

> Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:21 PM

>

 

> dear respected kalyanaraman ji

>  

> thanks ,thanks for everything

> I think i heard abt  u ,if i am not mistaken .

> at least one memebr has come out with bold opinions ,other wise a

pre set agenda was going on here in the name of scientific

discussions .Just call astrologers who r not well trained in debates

and just blving in defeating them by asking 100000 question s who has

no money nor resources to answer this guys ( as asking question frm

all vedas and puranas and this and that )

> i am sure by now they r getting some monetary support for doing all

this activities

> other wise why allready proven discussed questions again

resurfacing as questions to any new comers ,so what is hidden agenda

behind it ?? is just defeating ignorent one's is victory ,i blv in

exprtise in what some one is doing ,i blv my electician shud b best

in his work than he knows or not how bulb is functioning .

> Now we shud ask same question on scientific back ground of spices

and ingredients we use in making our dishes ,if our mom or wife dont

answer it properly we shud call them frauds and fakes

> check in any hotel and ask this question to main chef ,and he will

go mad and will recommnd to throw u out of hotel

> while travelling in flight call pilot and ask scientific basis of

flight engineering than his merit in doing his duty and keep on

arguing with him ,dont allow him to do his duty ,call him fraud and

fake

> u can do like this to any one ,even to ur driver or even ur servant

girl

> so world will b a better place full of scientists .

> now some incidents happened in reality ,

> KN rao invited one PS iyyer ( now no more ) for annual meeting of

astrologers in delhi and audience  requested him to demonstrte his

skill .he agreed and some 35 memebrs selected frm audience

> and he answered every one without even asking one counter

question ,he was not using a computer nor doing any charts even

> all prediction ranged frm 6 months to 2 yrs to b full filled ,all

recorded by Bharatiya vidhya bhavan astrology students and they

followed up

> the result was100% success .And it is available for public scrutiny

>  

> one man who is good in doing ashtamangalya prashna was calld in

delhi to show his skills ( same prashna is using in big

families ,palaces and even temples )

> he even asked KN rao for a astrologer who can chllenge or refute

his findings and all was arrnaged and it go on for a week ,rao even

offered computer help which he rejected as he was doing all

calculation mentaly and on paper .

> and it go on for a week and 100s of ppl who ever came there got

their predictions even without charts .

> and again it was gr8 success

> i quote this incident as all this is recorded and available for

public scrutiny and it got published in many journals

> other wise my exprnces and exprmnts may b termed as unprooved or

made up

> i thanks u once again for ur time and the will to defend the truth

what ever u blv is true .

>  

> with high regrds prashanth nair

>  

>  I hope other memebr s may come out more openly to support or

against views prented here and in grp generaly

>  

>  

>

> , Kalyan Raman

<angaraha@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear sanatji,

> >  

> > when you have all your freedom to say astrologersr are fake(it is

not circastic) ,why not prashanth nair ji can have is own views

about you.pl.think sir.As i told earlier a sincere (pl.underline

sincere)attempt by way of prayer to the lord will clear all your

doubts or a true belief in your master from whom u  have learnt

the astrology can clear your doubts.Otherwise it is like waking up a

person who is pretending like he is in a deep sleep.God bless all.

> > Raman

> >

> > --- On Sat, 22/11/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ... wrote:

> >

> > sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ...

> > Re: Babylonian astrology as per

Wikipedia

> >

> > Saturday, 22 November, 2008, 5:38 PM

> >

> > Resp. Nair ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for

> > vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge

> > ..<<<<<

> > and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with

you,

> > despite I have answers on your every question. However you may

> > continue to interact with other member, so long they have no

> > objection on your language.

> >

> > If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point,

> > since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same

> > point for further interaction.

> >

> > Bye,

> > Yours truly,

> >

> > Sanat

> >

> >

> >

> > , " prashanthnair999 "

> > prashanthnair999@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > dear respected sanat ji

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > because i feel like respecting u now

> > >

> > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial

baseless

> > > knowledge .

> > >

> > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in

frnt

> > of our

> > > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise

too ,

> > > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling

arena

> > and u

> > > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering

to me

> > a

> > > less important person

> > >

> > > now i need one more lesson frm u

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a

say

> > in

> > > this .( i mean connection )

> > >

> > > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re

> > birth

> > > and series of births and re births .Also how they use it

> > astrologicaly

> > > tru various questions a nativ can ask .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --

> > forget abt

> > > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek

> > religious

> > > support in ur analysis .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which

is

> > > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -

european

> > > languages .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > u answers will b highly appreciated .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp

and 6

> > > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and

> > > universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > with all respect and charan sparsh

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > regrds prashanth Nair

> > >

> > >

> > > , " sanat2221 "

> > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Resp. Nair ji,

> > > > Namaskar,

> > > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think

that

> > > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big

proof

> > > > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may

left

> > the

> > > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages

would

> > have

> > > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been

> > based on

> > > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious

> > > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om,

elephant,

> > > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc.

instead

> > of

> > > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ),

Sagittarius

> > (half

> > > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal),

Pisces

> > etc.

> > > > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion

> > originated

> > > > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the

> > > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that

these

> > signs

> > > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the

universe. As

> > > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations

in the

> > > > path of Moon.

> > > >

> > > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the

faith of

> > > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information

as

> > Made

> > > > in India.

> > > >

> > > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their

> > comment.

> > > >

> > > > Yours truly,

> > > > Sanat

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " Avtar Krishen

> > Kaul "

> > > > jyotirved@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this

> > lines i

> > > > dont

> > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform

tablets

> > > > till

> > > > > today avialble .>

> > > > >

> > > > > Here are the " written proofs " :

> > > > >

> > > > > " ...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving

> > from

> > the

> > > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that

predictions

> > were

> > > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five

> > known

> > > > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and

> > > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come

down to

> > us

> > > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC "

> > > > > Page 12 of " The Compleat Astrologer " by Derek and

> > Julia Parker--

> > -

> > > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.

> > > > >

> > > > > " ...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is

> > protrayed

> > > > on

> > > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-

god

> > > > Sin,

> > > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin

domiated

> > > > > Chaldean mythology " .. .same page of the above work.

> > > > > " ....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible

> > for the

> > > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac.

Aries,

> > > > Libra

> > > > > Cancer and Capricorn... . " page 13 of the above work.

> > > > > " ...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of

> > > > gigantic

> > > > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to

300

> > feet

> > > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep

of

> > > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the

heavenly

> > > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below

was

> > > > begun

> > > > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian

Dynasity

> > (2079-

> > > > > 1960 BC)... " Page 13 of the above work.

> > > > > With regards,

> > > > > A K Kaul

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > " prashanthnair999 "

> > > > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > respected kaul ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > namaskar

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available

> > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this

> > lines

> > i

> > > > dont

> > > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform

> > tablets

> > > > > till

> > > > > > today avialble .

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick

> > to

> > it

> > > > what

> > > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regrds prashanth

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Avtar

> > Krishen

> > Kaul "

> > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > History

> > > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of

> > > > astrology,

> > > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some

> > > > speculation

> > > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the

> > Sumerian

> > > > > period

> > > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written

> > evidence is

> > > > > available

> > > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2] . By the 16th century

> > B.C. its

> > > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun

> > to

> > take

> > > > > shape

> > > > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most

> > important of

> > > > these

> > > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of

> > 70

> > > > tablets

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine

> > or

> > victory

> > > > in

> > > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial

> > occurrences

> > > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event.

> > However

> > texts

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin

> > and

> > > > > content of

> > > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time

> > Babylonian

> > > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th

> > century

> > B.C.

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very

> >

> > rudimentary.

> > > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict

> > future

> > > > celestial

> > > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,

> > > > > interpretations

> > > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly

> > before. By

> > the

> > > > 4th

> > > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had

> > progressed

> > > > > enough to

> > > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable

> > accuracy,

> > > > at

> > > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> >

> >

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Shri Ratnaakar (Astrologer)ji,

Namaskar!

You have not replied even a single question from my post! On the

other hand, you are just " rumbling " with statements like " To do

nishakama karma " etc. etc. Are " Vedic astrologers " rendering free

consultations to their clients? What type of " nishkama karma " is

it?

 

In any case, I would request you to follow the advice of the saint

whom you have quoed as saying " if you follow the meaning of one

shloka in your life,you could get the MOKSHA/GOD.> The one shloka I

would suggest you to concentrate on is " karmanyevadhikaraste ma

phaleshu kadachanai, ma karma phala hetur bhoor ma te sango astu

akarmani " .

I know you will not be able to understand it in original Sanskrit.

As such, a very simple and running translation of the same is, " You

are entitled only to do your duty and not clamour/hanker after

results. Do not act with an eye on the result of your karma, nor

should you desist from karma " .

" Vedic astrology " , on the other hand, " teaches " us to use " remedial

measures " for getting even that which we donot deserve by dint of our

meritorious deeds!

What is painfully clear from all the discussions in this and other

forums is that " Vedic astrologers " are unable to advance even a

single cogent reason for predictive gimmicks being called as " Vedic

astrology " but still they go on repeating themselves endlessly

that " Vedic astrology is Vedic " , " Vedic astrology is Vedic " and so on

just to exasperate the other party! That is their game plan!

Dhanyavad.

AKK

 

, Ratnaakar

<namra_nivedan wrote:

>

>

>

> Sh.Kaul Sahab (Ved Vyaas of present kaal)

> First read Ramcharitmans and check what i said in

> my first mail.Ok! and what Geeta tells us " To do Nishkaam

> Karma and Karma always " because there is no alternate for

> us except this and astrology never prevent some one to do

> Karma.It only guides us how should we do plan our work against the

Chakravuha of Mahabharat battle made by our destiny due to our

> past bad karmas and astrological advices are like the (Chakravuha

> BHEDAN) as Abhimanu tried same way we can be successful or not

> it is depended on our destiny that is guided by Planets and

Nakshatras

> + present good karmas nothing else.Do not be rigid as [16 duni 8]

and

> please read Geeta,Yoga Vasistha and Ramcharitmanas etc again

> and again & try to reach on " SAAR - TATVA " .To quota shloka to see

> book is not enough at all.

>  

> Ati Dhanyavad Prabhu

> Ratnaakar

>

>

>  

>  Ratnaakar

> [Astrologer]

>

> --- On Tue, 11/25/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

>

> Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved

> Re: Babylonian astrology as per

Wikipedia

>

> Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 8:32 PM

Shri Ratnaakar (Atrologer) ji,

> Namaskar!

> It is a very interesting tidbit that you have related about

> someone's " experience " of the Geeta!

>

> You have said,

> <the saint says " You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you

> follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get the

> MOKSHA/GOD.>

> I would be obliged and even " enlightened " if you quote even one

> shloka from any of the shastras, inclduing the Geeta (or is

> it " Gita " !?) that has advised us to go to soothsayers for having a

> glimpse of the future!

>

> It appears you have not read even the " Geeta " yourself (as it is

> not 'prescribed' as a textbook in 'Vedic astrology' courses!) since

> in the midst of the battlefield, when Arjuna said to Krishna, " We

do

> not know whether we (i.e. Pandavas) will win the war or they (i.e.

> Kauravas)will win it " , Bhagwan Krishna should have advised Arjuna

to

> approach some jyotishi, especially as the so called " Brihat

Parashara

> Hora Shastra " is supposed to have been " revealed " by Maharshi

> Parashara, the father of Krishna Dwaipayana Vedavyasa, to Maitreyi!

> As Maharshi Parashara is ssaid to be a contemporary of Bhagwan

> Krishna, So Lord Krishna should have said to Arjuna something

> like, " O Arjuna, what a fool you are! Why don't you go to Parashara

> Rishi and ask him to consult his Parashari to see Dashamsha,

Navamsha

> etc. and also Dasha-Bhukti etc. in your horoscope and find out

> whether you have a Raja-yoga or not. Only after getting an

assurance

> from Parashara Rishi that your planets are favourable, then and

only

> you must wage a war against Kauravas " .

>

> No! Bhagwan Krishna did not say anything like that! What may

> actually be a bolt from the blue for " Vedic Jyotishis " is the

> statement of Bhagwan Krishna in the same " Geeta " that you have

> flaunted so valiantly, " hato va prapsyasi swargam jitva va

bokshyase

> maheem " ---i. e. " If you get killed in the battlefield, you will go

to

> the heavens and if you win the war, you will be the master of

entire

> globe " . It is actually a rebuke to " Vedic astrologers " --an

> admonishment to them that even if they are capable of peeping into

> the future, which actually they are not, they must desist from

> revealing beforehand as to what is going to happen to whom and when!

>

> The same " Geeta " has also said that when someone starts considering

> adharma as dharma, and views everything in an entirely opposite

> fashion (upside doen!), you can rest assured that that person is

> enveloped by Tamoguna! " Vedic astrologers " are a living example of

> Tamoguni budhi since a non-existent " Vedic astrology " is the real

> dharma for them but they cannot see that they are celebratig all

> their festivals and muhurtas on wrong days because of the same

curse

> that they call Vedic astrology!

> And they go on pontificating to the whole world that they

are " Vedic

> astrologers " --which by implication should mean that they have

studied

> all the Vedas and have arrived at the conclusion that the Vedas are

> full of predictive gimmicks and techniques of Dasha-Bhukti and what

> not!

> And if someone points out to them these anachronism, he/she is

dubbed

> as " missionary getting funds from Xtians " .

> But then that is just another proof of their tamoguni budhi!

> My humble request to these jyotishis is that instead of sarcastic

> remarks about the " Geeta " they better study it thoroughly, instead

of

> Tomes of volumes about non-existent Vedic astrology, and rid

> themselves of Tamoguni budhi, so that they stop considering adharma

> as dharma and vice-versa!

> Dhanyavad.

> A K Kaul

> , Ratnaakar

> <namra_nivedan@ ...> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Prashant ji,

> > Once a old lady went to a saint with a book and told him 

> > Maharaj i took the origional Geeta that consists of

> > 1600 shlokas. The Geeta, that have 700 shlokas and

> > which we read daily, is incomplete.To listen her words

> > the saints asks " how many days you spent for such research? "

> > She answered " 30 years " , to hear his answer the saint

> > says " You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you

> > follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get

> > the MOKSHA/GOD.

> > The same is applied on Mr.Sanat and Mr.Kaul like persons.

> > A number of persons go to the astrologers for getting solutions

> daily.

> > Are they all mad? Ketu is a melafic planet and give bad results

> are                  written in Ramcharitmans at three places.As

God

> is the result

> > of Aastha as the same the birth dates of various Avtars may be

> > right or wrong but to celebrate them is a matter purely " Aastha "

> > otherwise who saw God even though we have firm belief on his

> > existance.So let them speak and go forward.

> >

> >  

> >  Ratnaakar

> > [Astrologer]

> >

> > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999@ ...>

wrote:

> >

> > prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999@ ...>

> > Re: Babylonian astrology as per

> Wikipedia

> >

> > Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:21 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >  

> > dear respected kalyanaraman ji

> >  

> > thanks ,thanks for everything

> > I think i heard abt  u ,if i am not mistaken .

> > at least one memebr has come out with bold opinions ,other wise a

> pre set agenda was going on here in the name of scientific

> discussions .Just call astrologers who r not well trained in

debates

> and just blving in defeating them by asking 100000 question s who

has

> no money nor resources to answer this guys ( as asking question frm

> all vedas and puranas and this and that )

> > i am sure by now they r getting some monetary support for doing

all

> this activities

> > other wise why allready proven discussed questions again

> resurfacing as questions to any new comers ,so what is hidden

agenda

> behind it ?? is just defeating ignorent one's is victory ,i blv in

> exprtise in what some one is doing ,i blv my electician shud b best

> in his work than he knows or not how bulb is functioning .

> > Now we shud ask same question on scientific back ground of spices

> and ingredients we use in making our dishes ,if our mom or wife

dont

> answer it properly we shud call them frauds and fakes

> > check in any hotel and ask this question to main chef ,and he

will

> go mad and will recommnd to throw u out of hotel

> > while travelling in flight call pilot and ask scientific basis of

> flight engineering than his merit in doing his duty and keep on

> arguing with him ,dont allow him to do his duty ,call him fraud and

> fake

> > u can do like this to any one ,even to ur driver or even ur

servant

> girl

> > so world will b a better place full of scientists .

> > now some incidents happened in reality ,

> > KN rao invited one PS iyyer ( now no more ) for annual meeting of

> astrologers in delhi and audience  requested him to demonstrte his

> skill .he agreed and some 35 memebrs selected frm audience

> > and he answered every one without even asking one counter

> question ,he was not using a computer nor doing any charts even

> > all prediction ranged frm 6 months to 2 yrs to b full filled ,all

> recorded by Bharatiya vidhya bhavan astrology students and they

> followed up

> > the result was100% success .And it is available for public

scrutiny

> >  

> > one man who is good in doing ashtamangalya prashna was calld in

> delhi to show his skills ( same prashna is using in big

> families ,palaces and even temples )

> > he even asked KN rao for a astrologer who can chllenge or refute

> his findings and all was arrnaged and it go on for a week ,rao even

> offered computer help which he rejected as he was doing all

> calculation mentaly and on paper .

> > and it go on for a week and 100s of ppl who ever came there got

> their predictions even without charts .

> > and again it was gr8 success

> > i quote this incident as all this is recorded and available for

> public scrutiny and it got published in many journals

> > other wise my exprnces and exprmnts may b termed as unprooved or

> made up

> > i thanks u once again for ur time and the will to defend the

truth

> what ever u blv is true .

> >  

> > with high regrds prashanth nair

> >  

> >  I hope other memebr s may come out more openly to support or

> against views prented here and in grp generaly

> >  

> >  

> >

> > , Kalyan Raman

> <angaraha@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear sanatji,

> > >  

> > > when you have all your freedom to say astrologersr are fake(it

is

> not circastic) ,why not prashanth nair ji can have is own views

> about you.pl.think sir.As i told earlier a sincere (pl.underline

> sincere)attempt by way of prayer to the lord will clear all your

> doubts or a true belief in your master from whom u  have learnt

> the astrology can clear your doubts.Otherwise it is like waking up

a

> person who is pretending like he is in a deep sleep.God bless all.

> > > Raman

> > >

> > > --- On Sat, 22/11/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ... wrote:

> > >

> > > sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ...

> > > Re: Babylonian astrology as per

> Wikipedia

> > >

> > > Saturday, 22 November, 2008, 5:38 PM

> > >

> > > Resp. Nair ji,

> > > Namaskar,

> > > In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks

for

> > > vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge

> > > ..<<<<<

> > > and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with

> you,

> > > despite I have answers on your every question. However you may

> > > continue to interact with other member, so long they have no

> > > objection on your language.

> > >

> > > If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any

point,

> > > since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise

same

> > > point for further interaction.

> > >

> > > Bye,

> > > Yours truly,

> > >

> > > Sanat

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " prashanthnair999 "

> > > prashanthnair999@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > dear respected sanat ji

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > because i feel like respecting u now

> > > >

> > > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial

> baseless

> > > > knowledge .

> > > >

> > > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in

> frnt

> > > of our

> > > > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise

> too ,

> > > > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling

> arena

> > > and u

> > > > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering

> to me

> > > a

> > > > less important person

> > > >

> > > > now i need one more lesson frm u

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has

a

> say

> > > in

> > > > this .( i mean connection )

> > > >

> > > > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and

re

> > > birth

> > > > and series of births and re births .Also how they use it

> > > astrologicaly

> > > > tru various questions a nativ can ask .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --

> > > forget abt

> > > > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek

> > > religious

> > > > support in ur analysis .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too

which

> is

> > > > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -

> european

> > > > languages .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > u answers will b highly appreciated .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in this grp

> and 6

> > > > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me

and

> > > > universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > with all respect and charan sparsh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > regrds prashanth Nair

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " sanat2221 "

> > > > <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Resp. Nair ji,

> > > > > Namaskar,

> > > > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you

think

> that

> > > > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very

big

> proof

> > > > > that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may

> left

> > > the

> > > > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages

> would

> > > have

> > > > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have

been

> > > based on

> > > > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based

religious

> > > > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om,

> elephant,

> > > > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc.

> instead

> > > of

> > > > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ),

> Sagittarius

> > > (half

> > > > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal),

> Pisces

> > > etc.

> > > > > Because these symbols have no significance in any religion

> > > originated

> > > > > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in

the

> > > > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that

> these

> > > signs

> > > > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the

> universe. As

> > > > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations

> in the

> > > > > path of Moon.

> > > > >

> > > > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the

> faith of

> > > > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this

information

> as

> > > Made

> > > > > in India.

> > > > >

> > > > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer

their

> > > comment.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yours truly,

> > > > > Sanat

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Avtar Krishen

> > > Kaul "

> > > > > jyotirved@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,

> > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this

> > > lines i

> > > > > dont

> > > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform

> tablets

> > > > > till

> > > > > > today avialble .>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here are the " written proofs " :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " ...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving

> > > from

> > > the

> > > > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that

> predictions

> > > were

> > > > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the

five

> > > known

> > > > > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets

and

> > > > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come

> down to

> > > us

> > > > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC "

> > > > > > Page 12 of " The Compleat Astrologer " by Derek and

> > > Julia Parker--

> > > -

> > > > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " ...The Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is

> > > protrayed

> > > > > on

> > > > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the

Moon-

> god

> > > > > Sin,

> > > > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin

> domiated

> > > > > > Chaldean mythology " .. .same page of the above work.

> > > > > > " ....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible

> > > for the

> > > > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac.

> Aries,

> > > > > Libra

> > > > > > Cancer and Capricorn... . " page 13 of the above work.

> > > > > > " ...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form

of

> > > > > gigantic

> > > > > > stepped pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to

> 300

> > > feet

> > > > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive

sweep

> of

> > > > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the

> heavenly

> > > > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below

> was

> > > > > begun

> > > > > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian

> Dynasity

> > > (2079-

> > > > > > 1960 BC)... " Page 13 of the above work.

> > > > > > With regards,

> > > > > > A K Kaul

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ,

> > > " prashanthnair999 "

> > > > > > <prashanthnair999@ > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > respected kaul ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > namaskar

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available

> > > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this

> > > lines

> > > i

> > > > > dont

> > > > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any

cuniform

> > > tablets

> > > > > > till

> > > > > > > today avialble .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to

stick

> > > to

> > > it

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regrds prashanth

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " Avtar

> > > Krishen

> > > Kaul "

> > > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > History

> > > > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of

> > > > > astrology,

> > > > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some

> > > > > speculation

> > > > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the

> > > Sumerian

> > > > > > period

> > > > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written

> > > evidence is

> > > > > > available

> > > > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2] . By the 16th century

> > > B.C. its

> > > > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun

> > > to

> > > take

> > > > > > shape

> > > > > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most

> > > important of

> > > > > these

> > > > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of

> > > 70

> > > > > tablets

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine

> > > or

> > > victory

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial

> > > occurrences

> > > > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event.

> > > However

> > > texts

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin

> > > and

> > > > > > content of

> > > > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time

> > > Babylonian

> > > > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th

> > > century

> > > B.C.

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very

> > >

> > > rudimentary.

> > > > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict

> > > future

> > > > > celestial

> > > > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,

> > > > > > interpretations

> > > > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly

> > > before. By

> > > the

> > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had

> > > progressed

> > > > > > enough to

> > > > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable

> > > accuracy,

> > > > > at

> > > > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > >

> > >

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Dear Kaul Sahab ( Tulsidas ji of present time),

Pranaam!

Even each rickhaw puller knows the shloka of Geeta and its meaning

very well quoted by you.Yes i definitely will give you the exact

reference of three places of Ramcharitmanas and its context too

and Tulsidaas Ji was born in Samvat 1554 about 511 years before

according to Ramcharitmanas.Further i help freely to every person

for astrological consultations and are you really Parmaatama ?

as who knows Sanskrit or not, you know well in advance? How a proudy/

frustrated person are you? Plz take a rest now and stop further "rumbling"

and follow the meaning of quoted shloka in true means.

Jai ho Prabhu!

 

Ratnaakar

 

Ratnaakar

[Astrologer]--- On Wed, 11/26/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 7:19 PM

 

 

Shri Ratnaakar (Astrologer) ji,Namaskar!You have not replied even a single question from my post! On the other hand, you are just "rumbling" with statements like "To do nishakama karma" etc. etc. Are "Vedic astrologers" rendering free consultations to their clients? What type of "nishkama karma" is it? In any case, I would request you to follow the advice of the saint whom you have quoed as saying "if you follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get the MOKSHA/GOD.> The one shloka I would suggest you to concentrate on is "karmanyevadhikaras te ma phaleshu kadachanai, ma karma phala hetur bhoor ma te sango astu akarmani".I know you will not be able to understand it in original Sanskrit. As such, a very simple and running translation of the same is, "You are entitled only to do your duty and not clamour/hanker after results. Do not act with an eye on the result of

your karma, nor should you desist from karma"."Vedic astrology", on the other hand, "teaches" us to use "remedial measures" for getting even that which we donot deserve by dint of our meritorious deeds!What is painfully clear from all the discussions in this and other forums is that "Vedic astrologers" are unable to advance even a single cogent reason for predictive gimmicks being called as "Vedic astrology" but still they go on repeating themselves endlessly that "Vedic astrology is Vedic", "Vedic astrology is Vedic" and so on just to exasperate the other party! That is their game plan!Dhanyavad.AKK, Ratnaakar <namra_nivedan@ ...> wrote:>> > > Sh.Kaul Sahab (Ved Vyaas of present kaal)> First read Ramcharitmans and check what i

said in > my first mail.Ok! and what Geeta tells us "To do Nishkaam> Karma and Karma always" because there is no alternate for > us except this and astrology never prevent some one to do > Karma.It only guides us how should we do plan our work against the Chakravuha of Mahabharat battle made by our destiny due to our> past bad karmas and astrological advices are like the (Chakravuha> BHEDAN) as Abhimanu tried same way we can be successful or not> it is depended on our destiny that is guided by Planets and Nakshatras> + present good karmas nothing else.Do not be rigid as [16 duni 8] and> please read Geeta,Yoga Vasistha and Ramcharitmanas etc again> and again & try to reach on "SAAR - TATVA".To quota shloka to see> book is not enough at all.> > Ati Dhanyavad Prabhu> Ratnaakar> > > >

Ratnaakar> [Astrologer]> > --- On Tue, 11/25/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:> > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..>> Re: Babylonian astrology as per Wikipedia> > Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 8:32 PM> > > > > > > Shri Ratnaakar (Atrologer) ji,> Namaskar!> It is a very interesting tidbit that you have related about > someone's "experience" of the Geeta! > > You have said, > <the saint says "You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you > follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get the > MOKSHA/GOD.>> I would be obliged and even "enlightened" if you quote even one

> shloka from any of the shastras, inclduing the Geeta (or is > it "Gita"!?) that has advised us to go to soothsayers for having a > glimpse of the future!> > It appears you have not read even the "Geeta" yourself (as it is > not 'prescribed' as a textbook in 'Vedic astrology' courses!) since > in the midst of the battlefield, when Arjuna said to Krishna, "We do > not know whether we (i.e. Pandavas) will win the war or they (i.e. > Kauravas)will win it", Bhagwan Krishna should have advised Arjuna to > approach some jyotishi, especially as the so called "Brihat Parashara > Hora Shastra" is supposed to have been "revealed" by Maharshi > Parashara, the father of Krishna Dwaipayana Vedavyasa, to Maitreyi! > As Maharshi Parashara is ssaid to be a contemporary of Bhagwan > Krishna, So Lord Krishna should have said to Arjuna something > like, "O

Arjuna, what a fool you are! Why don't you go to Parashara > Rishi and ask him to consult his Parashari to see Dashamsha, Navamsha > etc. and also Dasha-Bhukti etc. in your horoscope and find out > whether you have a Raja-yoga or not. Only after getting an assurance > from Parashara Rishi that your planets are favourable, then and only > you must wage a war against Kauravas".> > No! Bhagwan Krishna did not say anything like that! What may > actually be a bolt from the blue for "Vedic Jyotishis" is the > statement of Bhagwan Krishna in the same "Geeta" that you have > flaunted so valiantly, "hato va prapsyasi swargam jitva va bokshyase > maheem"---i. e. "If you get killed in the battlefield, you will go to > the heavens and if you win the war, you will be the master of entire > globe". It is actually a rebuke to "Vedic astrologers" --an

> admonishment to them that even if they are capable of peeping into > the future, which actually they are not, they must desist from > revealing beforehand as to what is going to happen to whom and when!> > The same "Geeta" has also said that when someone starts considering > adharma as dharma, and views everything in an entirely opposite > fashion (upside doen!), you can rest assured that that person is > enveloped by Tamoguna! "Vedic astrologers" are a living example of > Tamoguni budhi since a non-existent "Vedic astrology" is the real > dharma for them but they cannot see that they are celebratig all > their festivals and muhurtas on wrong days because of the same curse > that they call Vedic astrology!> And they go on pontificating to the whole world that they are "Vedic > astrologers" --which by implication should mean that they have

studied > all the Vedas and have arrived at the conclusion that the Vedas are > full of predictive gimmicks and techniques of Dasha-Bhukti and what > not!> And if someone points out to them these anachronism, he/she is dubbed > as "missionary getting funds from Xtians". > But then that is just another proof of their tamoguni budhi!> My humble request to these jyotishis is that instead of sarcastic > remarks about the "Geeta" they better study it thoroughly, instead of > Tomes of volumes about non-existent Vedic astrology, and rid > themselves of Tamoguni budhi, so that they stop considering adharma > as dharma and vice-versa!> Dhanyavad.> A K Kaul> , Ratnaakar > <namra_nivedan@ ...> wrote:> >> > > > > > Dear Prashant ji,> > Once a old lady

went to a saint with a book and told him > > Maharaj i took the origional Geeta that consists of > > 1600 shlokas. The Geeta, that have 700 shlokas and > > which we read daily, is incomplete.To listen her words > > the saints asks "how many days you spent for such research?"> > She answered "30 years", to hear his answer the saint> > says "You spent 30 valuable years for this book, if you > > follow the meaning of one shloka in your life,you could get> > the MOKSHA/GOD.> > The same is applied on Mr.Sanat and Mr.Kaul like persons.> > A number of persons go to the astrologers for getting solutions > daily.> > Are they all mad? Ketu is a melafic planet and give bad results > are written in Ramcharitmans at three

places.As God > is the result> > of Aastha as the same the birth dates of various Avtars may be> > right or wrong but to celebrate them is a matter purely "Aastha"> > otherwise who saw God even though we have firm belief on his> > existance.So let them speak and go forward.> > > > > > Ratnaakar> > [Astrologer]> > > > --- On Mon, 11/24/08, prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999@ ...> wrote:> > > > prashanthnair999 <prashanthnair999@ ...>> > Re: Babylonian astrology as per > Wikipedia> > > > Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:21 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear respected

kalyanaraman ji > > > > thanks ,thanks for everything > > I think i heard abt u ,if i am not mistaken .> > at least one memebr has come out with bold opinions ,other wise a > pre set agenda was going on here in the name of scientific > discussions .Just call astrologers who r not well trained in debates > and just blving in defeating them by asking 100000 question s who has > no money nor resources to answer this guys ( as asking question frm > all vedas and puranas and this and that ) > > i am sure by now they r getting some monetary support for doing all > this activities > > other wise why allready proven discussed questions again > resurfacing as questions to any new comers ,so what is hidden agenda > behind it ?? is just defeating ignorent one's is victory ,i blv in > exprtise in what some one is

doing ,i blv my electician shud b best > in his work than he knows or not how bulb is functioning .> > Now we shud ask same question on scientific back ground of spices > and ingredients we use in making our dishes ,if our mom or wife dont > answer it properly we shud call them frauds and fakes > > check in any hotel and ask this question to main chef ,and he will > go mad and will recommnd to throw u out of hotel > > while travelling in flight call pilot and ask scientific basis of > flight engineering than his merit in doing his duty and keep on > arguing with him ,dont allow him to do his duty ,call him fraud and > fake > > u can do like this to any one ,even to ur driver or even ur servant > girl > > so world will b a better place full of scientists .> > now some incidents happened in reality ,> > KN rao invited

one PS iyyer ( now no more ) for annual meeting of > astrologers in delhi and audience requested him to demonstrte his > skill .he agreed and some 35 memebrs selected frm audience > > and he answered every one without even asking one counter > question ,he was not using a computer nor doing any charts even > > all prediction ranged frm 6 months to 2 yrs to b full filled ,all > recorded by Bharatiya vidhya bhavan astrology students and they > followed up > > the result was100% success .And it is available for public scrutiny > > > > one man who is good in doing ashtamangalya prashna was calld in > delhi to show his skills ( same prashna is using in big > families ,palaces and even temples ) > > he even asked KN rao for a astrologer who can chllenge or refute > his findings and all was arrnaged and it go on for a week

,rao even > offered computer help which he rejected as he was doing all > calculation mentaly and on paper .> > and it go on for a week and 100s of ppl who ever came there got > their predictions even without charts .> > and again it was gr8 success > > i quote this incident as all this is recorded and available for > public scrutiny and it got published in many journals > > other wise my exprnces and exprmnts may b termed as unprooved or > made up > > i thanks u once again for ur time and the will to defend the truth > what ever u blv is true .> > > > with high regrds prashanth nair > > > > I hope other memebr s may come out more openly to support or > against views prented here and in grp generaly > > > > > > > > @

. com, Kalyan Raman > <angaraha@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear sanatji,> > >  > > > when you have all your freedom to say astrologersr are fake(it is > not circastic) ,why not prashanth nair ji can have is own views > about you.pl.think sir.As i told earlier a sincere (pl.underline > sincere)attempt by way of prayer to the lord will clear all your > doubts or a true belief in your master from whom u  have learnt > the astrology can clear your doubts.Otherwise it is like waking up a > person who is pretending like he is in a deep sleep.God bless all.> > > Raman> > > > > > --- On Sat, 22/11/08, sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ... wrote:> > > > > > sanat2221 sanatkumar_jain@ ...> > > Re:

Babylonian astrology as per > Wikipedia> > > > > > Saturday, 22 November, 2008, 5:38 PM> > > > > > Resp. Nair ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > In view of your (repeated) circastic observations >>>> thanks for > > > vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial baseless knowledge> > > ..<<<< > > and so on, I don't think I must continue any interaction with > you, > > > despite I have answers on your every question. However you may > > > continue to interact with other member, so long they have no > > > objection on your language.> > > > > > If any other member is interested, for my comments, on any point, > > > since the beginning, raised by Sh. Nair Ji, may again raise same

> > > point for further interaction.> > > > > > Bye, > > > Yours truly,> > > > > > Sanat> > > > > > > > > > > > , "prashanthnair999" > > > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > dear respected sanat ji> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because i feel like respecting u now> > > > > > > > and thanks for vomiting ur undigested 35 yrs astrologcial > baseless> > > > knowledge .> > > > > > > > we were talking baylonian astrology called baby astrology in > frnt > > > of our> > > > gr8 vedic astrology .And no proof u all has given other wise

> too ,> > > > generaly u always claims u need opponents like in wrestling > arena > > > and u> > > > need mails to adressed to u .But i must thank u for answering > to me > > > a> > > > less important person> > > > > > > > now i need one more lesson frm u> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How greeks originalted this rasies and how their religion has a > say > > > in> > > > this .( i mean connection )> > > > > > > > also how it support astro which based on karma sidhantha and re > > > birth> > > > and series of births and re births .Also how they use it > > > astrologicaly> > > > tru various questions a nativ can ask .> > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > say some one asking abt House construction and aries rising --> > > forget abt> > > > other planets ,u can tell me ur understanding but tru greek > > > religious> > > > support in ur analysis .> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also tell me How mesha is a greek Name or other signs too which > is> > > > sanskrit which is supposed to b mother of all indo-aryan -> european> > > > languages .> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > u answers will b highly appreciated .> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so that i can learn it also other 271 astrologers in

this grp > and 6> > > > billion ppl in this world too ,pls remove the darkness in me and> > > > universe .as ur highly enlightened soul .> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with all respect and charan sparsh> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds prashanth Nair> > > > > > > > > > > > , "sanat2221"> > > > <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Resp. Nair ji,> > > > > Namaskar,> > > > > I will support the stand of Sh Kaul Ji. Because if you think > that> > > > > yawan were not greeks and if we take it even then a very big > proof> > > > >

that sign name were not formulated by Indian sages (we may > left > > > the> > > > > dispute of Indian yawan or greek yawan) is that if sages > would > > > have> > > > > decided the names of sign then name of signs would have been > > > based on> > > > > the symbols, animals etc. pertaining to India based religious> > > > > concept. Thus names of sign may be based on swastic, Om, > elephant,> > > > > cow, Ganesh, Kamal, Gada, Ram, Krishna, Trishul etc. etc. > instead > > > of> > > > > Aries (Meda), Cancer (crab), Scorpio (Vrashchik ), > Sagittarius > > > (half> > > > > man half horse), Capricorn (half crocodile half animal), > Pisces > > > etc.> > > > > Because these symbols

have no significance in any religion > > > originated> > > > > in India, whereas these symbols have sufficient backing in the> > > > > religious concept of Greeks. Hence there is no doubt that > these > > > signs> > > > > were adopted by our sages in the quest of knowing the > universe. As> > > > > they were already armed with the names of 27 constellations > in the> > > > > path of Moon.> > > > >> > > > > As usual our astrologers were kind enough to exploit the > faith of> > > > > innocent Indian public on sages and branded this information > as > > > Made> > > > > in India.> > > > >> > > > > Other silent astrologers and ignorant member may offer their >

> > comment.> > > > >> > > > > Yours truly,> > > > > Sanat> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , "Avtar Krishen> > > Kaul"> > > > > jyotirved@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Shri Prashantha Nairji,> > > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > > <i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> > > lines i> > > > > dont> > > > > > acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform > tablets> > > > > till> > > > > > today avialble .>> > > > > >> > > > > > Here are the "written proofs":> > > > > >> > > >

> > "...Less remote are the fragments of documents surviving> > > from > > > the> > > > > > reign of Sargo of Agade (c2870 BC) which show that > predictions > > > were> > > > > > made acccording to positions of the Sun, the Moon, the five > > > known> > > > > > planets and a mass of other phenomena, including comets and> > > > > > thunderbolts. From ancient Egypt, star charts have come > down to > > > us> > > > > > which have been reliably dated to around 4200 BC"> > > > > > Page 12 of "The Compleat Astrologer" by Derek and> > > Julia Parker--> > > -> > > > > > published by Mitchell Beazley Publishers in 1982.> > > > > >> > > > > > "...The

Babylonian Sun-god Shamash, lord of the year, is > > > protrayed> > > > > on> > > > > > an ancient seal (c 2400 BC) Shamash was the son of the Moon-> god> > > > > Sin,> > > > > > who crossed the sky in a boar. Togeter Shamash and Sin > domiated> > > > > > Chaldean mythology".. .same page of the above work.> > > > > > "....Rameses II of Egyopt (1300-1230 BC) was responsible> > > for the> > > > > > establishment of the four cardinal Sings of the Zodiac. > Aries,> > > > > Libra> > > > > > Cancer and Capricorn... ." page 13 of the above work.> > > > > > "...The ziggurats or watch-towers were built in the form of> > > > > gigantic> > > > > > stepped

pyramids; those at Babylon, Uru and Ur were up to > 300 > > > feet> > > > > > high. They afforded the Chaldean observers a massive sweep > of> > > > > > horizon and from them they traced the movements of the > heavenly> > > > > > bodies with remarkable accuracy. The ziggurat shown below > was> > > > > begun> > > > > > by Ur Nammu, the king who founded the Third Sumerian > Dynasity > > > (2079-> > > > > > 1960 BC)..." Page 13 of the above work.> > > > > > With regards,> > > > > > A K Kaul> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > ,> > > "prashanthnair999"> > > > > > <prashanthnair999@

> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > respected kaul ji> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > namaskar> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > but no ancient written evidence is available> > > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > i saw this b4 u posting in wiki itself ,because of this> > > lines > > > i> > > > > dont> > > > > >

> acccptd it ,also No rasi or such systems in any cuniform > > > tablets> > > > > > till> > > > > > > today avialble .> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > but u can blv what u blv is best ,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > but pls dont spread as knowledge unless u wanted to stick> > > to > > > it> > > > > what> > > > > > > ever may come i dont blv or care attitude> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In

, "Avtar> > > Krishen > > > Kaul"> > > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > History> > > > > > > > Babylonian astrology was the first organized system of> > > > > astrology,> > > > > > > > arising in the second millennium B.C.[1] There is some> > > > > speculation> > > > > > > > that astrology of some form or other appeared in the > > > Sumerian> > > > > > period> > > > > > > > in the 3rd millennium BC but no ancient written> > > evidence is> > > > > > available> > > > > > > > to support this hypothesis[2] . By the 16th century> >

> B.C. its> > > > > > > > beginnings as a simple omen-based astrology had begun> > > to > > > take> > > > > > shape> > > > > > > > in the astrological writings of the time, most> > > important of> > > > > these> > > > > > > > being the Enuma Anu Enlil, whose contents consisted of> > > 70> > > > > tablets> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > 7,000 recorded mundane (i.e., public, common; famine> > > or > > > victory> > > > > in> > > > > > > > war, for example) phenomena and whatever celestial > > > occurrences> > > > > > > > happened to be present at the time of the event.> > > However >

> > texts> > > > > > from> > > > > > > > this time also refer to an oral tradition - the origin> > > and> > > > > > content of> > > > > > > > which we can only speculate upon[3]. At this time> > > Babylonian> > > > > > > > astrology was solely mundane, and prior to the 7th> > > century > > > B.C.> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > practitioners' understanding of astronomy was very> > > > > > rudimentary.> > > > > > > > Because of their inability to accurately predict> > > future> > > > > celestial> > > > > > > > phenomena and planetary movement very far in advance,> > > > > >

interpretations> > > > > > > > were done as the phenomena occurred or slightly> > > before. By > > > the> > > > > 4th> > > > > > > > century, however, their mathematical methods had> > > progressed> > > > > > enough to> > > > > > > > calculate future planetary positions with reasonable > > > accuracy,> > > > > at> > > > > > > > which point extensive ephemerides began to appear.[4]> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > > > > >

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